general

[golden gust]

for the like player servers yea

[plucky sparrow]

smps?

[golden gust]

yea

[worn ember]

i mean it'd be stupid to start from scratch for that

but for minigames it makes sense

[plucky sparrow]

i still don't get how they can host so much

and the fact that anyone can create an smp

[unkempt drift]

🤑

[worn ember]

i member the days of smp hosting

[golden gust]

I mean, they have a lot of infra

having people on the network is people on the network

[warm anchor]

It’s not hard

[worn ember]

cat when are you gonna add sharding to paper, i want seamless transitions between worldborders that are hosted on different machines

[warm anchor]

Consider most SMP has an average of 0-1 players during off hours

[plucky sparrow]

Yeah true

but still

quite big

[worn ember]

what about yours

[plucky sparrow]

he has an smp?

[warm anchor]

Yeah but my discord is not for MC

[toxic bone]

the smp experience

[worn ember]

do people actually play on it

[warm anchor]

https://map.eternity.community @plucky sparrow

[plucky sparrow]

I'm very good at getting blown up as soon as I join

@wispy blade can confirm

[plucky sparrow]

It's a bit slow

still loading

[warm anchor]

Yeah they do but majority of my server is still Dota and genshin

[worn ember]

god bluemap is slow af lmao

[warm anchor]

We kinda move games to game as a group

Instead of sticking to one

[worn ember]

yeah i used to rent a space engineers server for some mates

and then some ark servers

[warm anchor]

Yeah slowness is bluemap but you see so much details

[plucky sparrow]

Yea

It's not feeling like loading for me

there we go

still loading

IT UNLOADED

all this waiting

[warm anchor]

LOL

[worn ember]

guess you didnt dab enough

[warm anchor]

It works for me

[worn ember]

its super slow for me too but yeah

whateva

[plucky sparrow]

wait what

spectacle being weird

this

what happened here

like the middle

[warm anchor]

Let’s not talk about that

[plucky sparrow]

alright

[warm anchor]

It’s our temp map and we were going to build a wall around it but not got to it yet

[plucky sparrow]

Ah i see

[wispy blade]

yes

[toxic bone]

🚗

[plucky sparrow]

I fixed the hole tho

[worn ember]

are you a professional hole filler?

[plucky sparrow]

Yes

Experienced

[toxic bone]

ok then

[worn ember]

nice

[plucky sparrow]

I can show you

Do you have any holes

[worn ember]

non that need filling

[plucky sparrow]

Oh ok

[toxic bone]

Ok!

[left swift]

k

[worn ember]

k

[toxic bone]

Yeah

[lyric stone]

hey, I'm brain farting what option in paper.yml is that allows boring machines to function? I think it's piston duplication?

[spice ether]

My guess TNT dupe

[warm anchor]

Yes piston duplication

[lyric stone]

Thanks! I thought so but wasn't sure

[magic river]

Huh, did dannyB lose his account? https://namemc.com/profile/Debuggg.3

[regal herald]

haha

[ripe sphinx]

https://f.u11.io/LPxD5c

[plucky sparrow]

Do they look like they can read

Or like they even know what GitHub is

[ripe sphinx]

true

[plucky sparrow]

Their IQ is probably negative

[wispy blade]

ish not a bugg!!!! ish a feashur!!

[plucky sparrow]

When valk finished

Fix variable names

[wispy blade]

i was actually going to work on valk today

i gotta read up on the mc protocol and write some kind of packet reader and writer

probably going to take a look at waterfall

[worn ember]

wtf is valk

what shenanigan's are you up to now

[plucky sparrow]

Minecraft server in V

[worn ember]

ah yes that answers all the questions

[wispy blade]

project started by me and felenov

felenov does supervision, i do the writing, lol

[cosmic raft]

for anyone curious

papermc.io over the past 30 days:

https://i.imgur.com/aGeNb85.png

[wispy blade]

that's a lot of requests

[void void]

what happened here lol

[cosmic raft]

no clue

21.75M requests that day

[wispy blade]

probably a hosting site updating

but doing it badly

[worthy geode]

97.97% cached, CF is great

[void void]

CF caching saves me a lot of bandwidth lol

[rocky scroll]

Spigot population is just amazing

[worn ember]

cf saves me fuck all xD

but if i serve 30MB or 60MB not like it matters lul

[wispy blade]

but in skript from indonesia

[toxic bone]

skript indonesian edition

[wispy blade]

no

[plucky sparrow]

Naomi but in skript from Indonesia when

[wispy blade]

never

[magic river]

elshout but in skript from indonesia

[wispy blade]

see that is possible

but why

[wispy blade]

you can't recreate me

i'm myself too much!

[plucky sparrow]

Bet

[toxic bone]

No

[wispy blade]

dap's gonna attempt making naomi.rs

[void void]

only one (722) dependencies 🚀🚀🚀

[sudden tundra]

Hi !
what would you consider the best custom terrain generation plugin ?

[wispy blade]

see, if i were to make dap.v it'd just be a for loop of "x when, fix variable names, switch as command manager????"

and yes i'd compile it to js

[plucky sparrow]

crates*

[void void]

😩

[wispy blade]

only dependency i need is the standard library B)

[plucky sparrow]

Yeah same

hides maven dependencies

[wispy blade]

import os
import net

done.

[hushed plover]

If I have a project with C - Style brackets in the whole project (IntelliJ), how would I format the whole project to have Java - Style brackets?

[lean kiln]

right click the module and select Reformat Code

[hushed plover]

Hm, unfortunately it didn't change the brackets.

[lean kiln]

select the Cleanup code checkbox

[magic river]

C style brackets?

I think I've seen almost as many brace styles as I have C projects 😛

Well, ones I've written code for anyway

[hushed plover]

Oh, alright

Nope

[lean kiln]

check your codestyle settings then

it'll reformat to whatever you have set

[hushed plover]

@lean kiln https://gyazo.com/c0c3812c7db8c83fd739a833f6e4e17d

[unkempt drift]

aren't entity collisions one of the larger drags on server perf? Im guessing a lower value means less mobs scrunched together

[proven hollow]

any one can recommend good scoreboard plugin

[warm anchor]

When you are stuck in a car with your fat brother @cerulean plume you naturally want to move away but you are in a car so you can’t move

[toxic bone]

semi anarchy is weird. unless there is a whitelist there are always going to be people using exploits, might as well play on a normal anarchy server

[warm anchor]

It’s just roleplaying

It’s called pretending to be in an anarchy server but you still have rules

Even 2b2t is like this. Claim to be anarchy but the admin comes up every other week to remove player made structures

No cheating is a rule though

So using dupes and glitches to grief is ok?

Things like portal locks?

And end death traps?

[marble lark]

that's the first I've heard of any particular language having styles to their brackets

[warm anchor]

(dont mind me) (You do not see this message)
@fossil patio @unreal moss

[fossil patio]

[potent fossil]

Despite this and him stuttering through the slides I assigned him to read I got the highest presentation score in the class with only one critique and it was on one of my plots

God I am tired

[spare venture]

does your professor do peer reviews

one time my presentation partner didn’t do shit so i roasted him and he got a 0 on the project and failed the class. dude tried to screw me on a semester long project

[potent fossil]

Yeah my prof is well aware, I emailed him at 3am day of presentation that he didn't do shit and I was just now going to bed after doing all the work he was meant to do and that regardless I'd try to put on the best show I possibly could given what I can only describe as complete indifference from my partner

Also talked to him twice in prior office hours about it

But the grade doesn't matter for this guy as he's taking the class Pass/No Pass

So, it is what it is

But I didn't find out about him not doing anything until 2 days before the presentation when he sent me the slides he made, which were all shitty and sloppy 5 minute slides with utter crap on them, which I ended up entirely erasing and doing the entire presentation

So partly on me for not checking the actual powerpoint earlier, but I figured maybe just maybe my partner would have enough respect for me, himself, and the class to not do that

Guess I learned my lesson

[warm anchor]

Just dont shit talk. Give your professor the truth. They suually will take care of it. and document everything in case the dude wants to fuck you over in anyway.

[potent fossil]

My prof and I shit talked him together

We're bros

[spare venture]

You should have just left his slides and made it very clear to your professor which were yours and his

[warm anchor]

bich if you aint there to learn and do work, you be gone

[potent fossil]

Nah, the grade is holistic for the entire presentation so I'd have taken a hit just to get back at him

Not worth it

[spare venture]

Sucks

No offense to the professor but if he is passing someone who does that, not really doing his job

[potent fossil]

The guy probably won't pass, but what I mean is that means nothing to him

He's taking the class without a letter grade (audit, basically)

Instead of earning an A,B,C,D,F he'll get a P or an N for Pass or No Pass

He'll likely get a No Pass but it won't affect his GPA or anything

[warm anchor]

well yeah in a sense he cannot give you better grade than those who got better presentations

even though it isnt your fault

if he wants to be fair fair

[potent fossil]

Like I said I earned the highest grade because everyone else somehow managed to give horrible presentations lmao

[warm anchor]

you'd be surprised how many people fucked around becasue thir parent pays for their shit or they aint gown up yet to realize the importance lol

[potent fossil]

main issues were not creating proper excel plots for presentations (bad axis scales, bad or no axis labels, no plot titles, bad colors with multiple data series plotted, plot way too small to read on a projector), not speaking loud enough (literally just talking as if we were 2 ft in front of them so we couldn't hear them at all), not practicing their presentation whatsoever and stumbling over their words, having no script at all, etc

whereas my only lost point (1 pt) was that I placed my vertical axis label in the wrong area

[twin lagoon]

@potent fossil

[potent fossil]

michale 🥰

shouldn't be

not at this level

[magic river]

They'd better hope they roll some 20s, who the fuck splits the party?

[silver nexus]

yay i get to move the WiiU nobody but me uses into my room

and yes

i stand by the WiiU

[limber knot]

I think at this point every WiiU game worth buying is on the Switch

[warm anchor]

underrated comment

[ivory kite]

it wasn't rated in the first place

[toxic bone]

Ok!

[magic river]

[warm anchor]

Paper DnD night?

[potent fossil]

I'd like to play that at some point but I know pretty much nothing about it

[magic river]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/11/report-covid-positive-aaron-rodgers-told-nfl-he-was-immunized-with-homeopathy/

[warm anchor]

h.o.m.e.o.p.a.t.h.i.c

[potent fossil]

facebook boomers will read that and be like "what is HOMOPATHY this new generation is what is wrong with the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[untold copper]

homeopathy is a scam

[warm anchor]

yes everyone with half a brain can see that

[worn ember]

Hello I'd like to invite you to try my new homeopathy treatment to become immune to COVID-19

[untold copper]

no

[worn ember]

Only $59.99

[worn ember]

I have treatment for abs too

With only half a spoon of white powder a day

[magic river]

Whoops wrong server

[worn ember]

[cosmic raft]

doing it wrong

"three easy payments of $19.99"

[untold copper]

im in

[upper totem]

i have a 1.7 server that only supports java 8, but paper only supports java 17. what should i do?

before installing java 17: runs nicely

after java 17:
A problem occurred running the Server launcher.java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:77)
at java.base/jdk.internal.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)
at java.base/java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:568)
at cpw.mods.fml.relauncher.ServerLaunchWrapper.run(ServerLaunchWrapper.java:43)
at cpw.mods.fml.relauncher.ServerLaunchWrapper.main(ServerLaunchWrapper.java:12)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassCastException: class jdk.internal.loader.ClassLoaders$AppClassLoader cannot be cast to class java.net.URLClassLoader (jdk.internal.loader.ClassLoaders$AppClassLoader and java.net.URLClassLoader are in module java.base of loader 'bootstrap')
at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.Launch.<init>(Launch.java:34)
at net.minecraft.launchwrapper.Launch.main(Launch.java:28)
... 6 more

i did

and the 1.17 servers wont load

[warm anchor]

you will need 2 JAVA installs. One for your outdated, ancient, unsupported 1.7

and one for 1.17

I like to modrinth because thier UI is slick

forge is just like spigot that kinda stuck at 2010

the forge thing works well with huge modpacks

We played MC eternal as a community last year and there is no way for the players to update 400 mods all togethers

and we added a few extras onto the existing MC eternal as well and forge helped

not yet! I will make one with all that crap from the guide once its available

the guide is basically what I use daily on my own client

will need your own app though yeah

[barren marsh]

hi

[magic river]

Huh, this emote...

[potent fossil]

someone tell me she is cute #adorable-pets message

thanks for your service

[swift root]

Uh yes

Adorable

Amazing

[potent fossil]

thank you best larry

[mental meadow]

simple uwu

[tropic flame]

people have already answered you but i'd just like to add that no Forge version up to 1.12.2 was made to support Java 9+

and 1.6.4 has to be manually patched to support Java 8, otherwise it only runs with 7 1.7.2 and newer are fine though

[ashen cliff]

Bro. 1.6.4 is still the best version.

[rotund cargo]

Minecraft’s Java Edition currently deploys with OpenJDK 16 and will soon move to OpenJDK 17. 
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/java/microsoft-deepens-its-investments-in-java/

Not surprising

[rotund cargo]

1.5.2 better

[ashen cliff]

Haha, no.

[magic river]

Huh, I think the JCP was created around the same time Microsoft got sued for making unapproved extensions to the Java language

Yeah that lawsuit was 1997 and the JCP started in 1998

And now Microsoft is in the JCP

[quasi valley]

lol

[granite slate]

I've read that the more I use my SSD the more my new files become fragmented. The article says that it happens because of how virtual memory works, I was thinking, doesn't it happen simply bc when I use my ssd It tries to use the less used blocks for new write operation thus when it is almost full it just doesn't have enough space to save the data sequentially?

[golden gust]

I mean, theres various forms of "fragmentation"

e.g. SSDs move data around more across the disk as a means of wear leveling and the fact that you can't write to an SSD without chucking out a sizable amount of flash

[twin lagoon]

@waxen panther @waxen panther @waxen panther @waxen panther @waxen panther

[waxen panther]

hi

[golden gust]

Also, filesystems can be prone to fragmentation, some FSes actively work against fragmentation many will just pretty much leave appended parts of files all over the disk more or less, I've had crazy number of file fragments in small files

[twin lagoon]

[waxen panther]

[twin lagoon]

[granite slate]

So what the article is saying isn't false. It just depends on how the virtual memory is managed from the OS. Right?

[golden gust]

I mean, idk what they're referring to as "virtual memory"

There is the "virtual" mapping on the drive itself between different sectors to emulate the "HDD Experience" for how data is referenceed on a "block" device

Like, blocks are moved over all of the time and the disk will just transparently remap the traditional disk block access commands over to the actual flash location on the drive

Calling it "fragmented" is nuanced because literally any file will pretty much be scattered all over the disk if it's over a few kb I think it was

[granite slate]

OH, I see. I thought that they were referring to the area used when you don't have enough RAM

[golden gust]

I mean, I feel that they're not a tech blog tryna explain something technical and missing the point, like, fragmentation is 100% a thing but you don't really care about it at disk level for an SSD given that everything needs to be translated anyway

I mean, there is a virtual mapping on SSDs given that the fact that the SSD moves blocks all over, but, that's 100% transparent to the software running on the machine and given how small blocks are, literally anything on there is gonna be all over the place

[granite slate]

True

[mossy cliff]

Does elytra launchers work on paper or is it "fixed"?

It workes by jumping into crammed area of boats

[twin lagoon]

try it and see

[mossy cliff]

But i can't seem to get such high speeds as in tutorials online. I get distance worth of 2 rocket uses

So i suspect there's a speed limit for flying with elytra on paper?

[left swift]

no it's just enabled specifically for you

ur mc name is hard coded to have speed limits on

[mossy cliff]

Ok nice

[left swift]

they want you to be safe when you're flying

[mossy cliff]

Why not disable flying altogether

[left swift]

it's more fun to limit fly speed then it is to stop it cuz then you're getting cucked

[marble lark]

Lmao

[granite slate]

Does anyone think that one day Minecraft Bedrock edition will crush Java Edition (It is just more advertised and offers more possibility to us programmers) or am I the only one?

[golden gust]

you might not of noticed but mojang is expanding upon datapacks, slowly, for JE

Like, they have a 10 year old codebase that they've gotta maintain; It's no surprise that something made almost from the ground up has more possibilites when rewritten vs the hardcoded horrors of JE

[granite slate]

Also true. By the way, what is a datapack?

[silver nexus]

Ehhhh

Yes and no.

[golden gust]

resource packs, but, more stuff than just textures

[granite slate]

Mh, interesting. I will look it more in depth

[silver nexus]

Bedrock is a lot more advertised but my experience is that Java has more name recognition as that is what major YouTubers use and is what is widely recognized as the better version

[granite slate]

That is true.

[golden gust]

part of it is that it's really hard to create news around something which is still tryna place technological catchup vs something which has a lot of community cruft created for it

[silver nexus]

Plus modding capabilities are better (as of right now) in Java in my opinion than bedrock has

[golden gust]

was honestly kinda surprised that the MC blog talked about stuff like WE

modding, yes, but mojang don't exactly showcase modding all that much as it's out of their charters too much

[silver nexus]

Yea

They’re doing stuff with mods for bedrock but I find it a bit weird

[granite slate]

Most child doesn't even know that exists java edition. They mistakenly buy win 10 edition.

[golden gust]

thing is that the console is much more familiar to younger players than PC gaming is, like, most people I ever saw from that generation had 'eh computers and relatively recent consoles; Maybe not always latest gen but at least the last one

[obtuse ocean]

Pretty sure there are smart people in here. Details are not needed, what could cause this: Lagspikes when crossing chunkborders in a taller world (e.g. 4080 height) https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/756715786747248645/899814657102073856/Minecraft_1.17.1_-_Multiplayer_3rd-party_Server_2021-10-19_02-21-27.mp4

[golden gust]

vanilla bug due to their lighting system

[obtuse ocean]

Still happens using starlight tho

And the video I showed was on a server with the paper patch for mc-162253 enabled

[golden gust]

that patch has been removed

[obtuse ocean]

And I added it back

[waxen panther]

lol

[obtuse ocean]

And I fixed it to work with negative minimum section position

[untold copper]

day #151 of trying to get abs: no exercise

[golden gust]

I mean, part of why we removed that patch is because it didn't work in many cases and often caused other client issues, it's pretty hard to say, the client has never performed stupidly well when rendering chunks and increasing that height only makes it much worse

[obtuse ocean]

The patch was a server side workaround, not a fix of the problem

[golden gust]

Which is pretty much what I've said many times about that patch

[obtuse ocean]

Yes

[golden gust]

many people still had issues even with that patch and for some people it made their client run worse

You're asking about the game performing badly in an area in which it's pretty well known to suck at, with a config which makes the thing more likely to showcase how bad it is

[obtuse ocean]

That's true

I'm just searching for actual proof of this being a different issue than the lighting bugreport as saying that starlighf not fixing my issue while it did fix the issue in the lighting bugreport is not valid proof and still counted as duplicate

Would be awesome to be able to smoothly play worlds that have 4000 blocks between bedrock and world height limit, yes another bugreport wont make it any sooner I know

[golden gust]

I mean, video makes it look like it can't be the lighting bug

[obtuse ocean]

How?

[golden gust]

More just looks like the client render sucks issue which is hardly new

Because you apparently have starlight which drastically improves the lighting system to the point where when it does crap the bed it's not all that noticable, but, tbqh, I've yet to experience the lighting issue much

[worn ember]

hello bed shitter

[golden gust]

Hey, it's your bed tonight

[worn ember]

looking forward to it

[obtuse ocean]

I mean, the client still handles/receives the whole chunk column even tho it has vertical renderdistance so it doesnt need it

[golden gust]

wait, is that the vanilla client?

[obtuse ocean]

the video is but you get the same lagspikes with starlight

[golden gust]

in that case, i'd probs try adding sodium into the mix

[worn ember]

try some patasium too

and mayb some sulfur if you like sparks

[obtuse ocean]

And why that?

[ashen cliff]

Just mix everything and see what happens.

[golden gust]

Because performance?

it replaces the vanilla renderer with something which perms a "bit" better

[left swift]

cat so funny when u explains stuffs

[golden tiger]

did paper mc change how raids work because I don't get any totems in my server or vexes on my server

[left swift]

#paper-help

[worn ember]

https://youtu.be/wqJAMFH1pqA

[quasi valley]

what's with all these horny animators

[worn ember]

they're all weebs

[golden gust]

his hair totally cements the shape of "the tip"

[left swift]

you think that's what they intended

[golden gust]

||The tip, the whole tip and nothing but the tip||

[left swift]

the linus tech tip

[twin lagoon]

are there other commonly used ways in java (specifically minecraft software) to detect available cpu threads?

other than Runtime.getRuntime().availableProcessors()

very confused to how java gets the available processors number

[toxic bone]

Yeah

[left swift]

why does my knees hurt when the weather gets colder?

[worn ember]

whats wrong with that method?

[twin lagoon]

root@test:/tmp# nproc --all
16
root@test:/tmp# java -jar availableProcessors.jar
Available processors: 1
root@test:/tmp# java -XX:+PreferContainerQuotaForCPUCount -jar availableProcessors.jar
Available processors: 1
root@test:/tmp# java -XX:+UseContainerSupport -jar availableProcessors.jar
Available processors: 1
root@test:/tmp# java -XX:ActiveProcessorCount=16 -jar availableProcessors.jar
Available processors: 16

[vernal moth]

Depending on your goal you can use natives to do it

I forget the name of the lib, mc uses it too

[twin lagoon]

tbh better question is

where the fuck is availableProcessors getting the available processor count from

[vernal moth]

https://github.com/oshi/oshi

I would bet thats defined in the specifications Michael

So glhf

[twin lagoon]

[vernal moth]

But if you want the physical truth Oshi helps

Altho no clue what it does in a container

[worn ember]

google as useless as ever for stuff like this

[twin lagoon]

correct

[vernal moth]

https://therecord.media/gitlab-servers-are-being-exploited-in-ddos-attacks-in-excess-of-1-tbps/

Uff

1tpbs true bandwidth

[ashen cliff]

Damn. Makes the MikroTik botnet look small.

[toxic bone]

just don't use gitlab ez

[mossy vessel]

TWL to not use GitLab

[vernal moth]

Exploit has been known for half a year, who doesn't update their public stuff so long?...

[wispy blade]

drop table hosting

[vernal moth]

It's not gitlabs fault in any way

[left swift]

damn gitlab having tons of problems huh

[twin lagoon]

gitlab is doing fine

[vernal moth]

They released security patches properly

And paid a bounty iirc

[twin lagoon]

it has been fixed since april or something lol

[vernal moth]

It's the people that don't update

Yep, fixed one day after report on .com

Awarded 20k bounty

And a renewal of the ultimate licence the researcher uses

[wispy blade]

sheesh

big money

anyway: today i found out that the naml parser i spent ~9 days on doesn't work

:(

[mossy vessel]

Was the CVE disclosed and people not updating? iirc, the entry barrier to a selfhosted gitlab instance is bar 1.8 level

[little frost]

i found it after lots of digging in natives

https://github.com/openjdk/jdk/blob/089e83bf1bf6f28cec8dd30288720b6d066301f0/src/hotspot/os/linux/cgroupSubsystem_linux.cpp#L479

[wispy blade]

emilia so helpful :)

[marble lark]

// If both shares and quotas are setup results depend
// on flag PreferContainerQuotaForCPUCount.
// If true, limit CPU count to quota
// If false, use minimum of shares and quotas

[little frost]

it's like, it doesn't give you the total number of processors, it gives the active number... whatever the fuck that means

[marble lark]

A bug report on the issue got closed as well lel
https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8264136

[worn ember]

Don't have to release fixes if its not broken in the first place

[limber knot]

can#t wait for the JVM not being able to deal with intel's new power and efficiency cores lol

[wispy blade]

lmao

[ashen cliff]

So never?

[tawdry zealot]

a

[toxic bone]

a

[wispy blade]

no.

[merry talon]

does gitlab scream at you that its out of date?

[wispy blade]

it should

[worn ember]

scream

[left swift]

cream

[toxic bone]

@naom

yes

[void void]

ice cream

[silver nexus]

What

[marble lark]

lmao

saw that

[silver nexus]

Gonna pretend I didn’t just read that

[void void]

what a terrible day to be literate

[silver nexus]

Indeed

[golden gust]

you scream?

We all scream for ice cream!

depends on what you're into

[void void]

[marble lark]

Unzips

[golden gust]

Might I refer back to a previous comment of mine

[silver nexus]

I-

[golden gust]

.

[void void]

smh go to #admin-sex-dungeon already

[toxic bone]

I hate this server

[void void]

based helvetica

[left swift]

it's ok I like tahomabread better

[toxic bone]

nomana you cant walk

[left swift]

[toxic bone]

no

[void void]

[toxic bone]

What

[void void]

it should, in the admin panel

[worn ember]

No bad, zips it back up

[ashen cliff]

Thank you for reminding me that I have to unzip a 700GB archive.

[left swift]

the adventures of krusic22

[worn ember]

why is everything you do so scuffed krusic? xD

[untold copper]

because yes.

[unborn jay]

hey! what's the difference between IPs 127.0.0.1 and 0.0.0.0?

In terms of a minecraft server

[twin lagoon]

0.0.0.0 binds to all interfaces

[spare venture]

0.0.0.0 grabs all the public IPs on the machine

[twin lagoon]

127.0.0.1 is your loopback address (own computer/server/wherever you host it, hence the name loopback)

[spare venture]

aka localhost^

[minor badge]

and 42 Wallby Way is Michael’s address

[twin lagoon]

@minor badge @minor badge @minor badge @minor badge @minor badge @minor badge

mari mari mari

[minor badge]

hello!

[quasi valley]

michael violating server rule 6?

[twin lagoon]

violating ur mom

[minor badge]

haha good one, Michael!

[twin lagoon]

thank you

[toxic bone]

Micheal I am calling the police

[quasi valley]

Certified kekwiggle moment

[twin lagoon]

love you kenny

[quasi valley]

[waxen panther]

@quasi valley

@quasi valley @quasi valley

[ashen cliff]

@quasi valley

[left swift]

[twin lagoon]

@quasi valley

[mossy vessel]

KEKWiggle

[warm anchor]

@quasi valley

[quasi valley]

[worn ember]

hmm i always thought they called 0.0.0.0 the loopback address guess im dum

[waxen panther]

what

[worn ember]

who

[potent fossil]

i could have slept hours longer

[worn ember]

big funny

[spare venture]

first time?

[worn ember]

second

[void void]

le unaddressed ip space

[toxic bone]

Ok!

[worn ember]

arent they reserved for multicast?

[void void]

idk

[hollow swan]

0.0.0.0 is not really anything. 255.255.255.255 is broadcast of all of internet.

[worn ember]

actually nope doesnt look like it, google says multicast is for 224.0.0.0 to 239.255.255.255

[spare venture]

there no way.

and we just said 0.0.0.0 just binds all the IPs on the machine, so it is something

[hollow swan]

127.0.0.1 is always yourself, loopback. For testing purposes, or connecting to a service on your own device.

[little frost]

[::1]

[red timber]

called as wildcard address sometimes

[hollow swan]

@rose nest in something like a server configuration, yes, it means bind to all the interfaces you have. But it isn't used by a client.

[red timber]

not sure if it's really defined as that

[worn ember]

depends in what context you throw it

[hollow swan]

Use of 0.0.0.0 is generally bad security. If you run a service, you should know what network interface you wish to run that service on.

This way your firewall can make sense of it.

[ashen cliff]

Multicast is whatever I want it to be. 🛌

[spare venture]

i think he was just asking what the difference was, not which he should use for what

[ashen cliff]

Lets just overwrite our competitors IP space... again.

[hollow swan]

Multicast is whole different animal is like a subscription service. You use those addresses to talk to others in the same group.

@rose nest got it. That makes sense given the original question. Best answer use 127.0.0.1 if you are testing a service running on the local host only.

[spare venture]

yes

[potent fossil]

i bind all my shit to 0.0.0.0 cause they're all on separate networks

[spare venture]

some guides i’ve seen recommend 0.0.0.0 for bungee backend servers and i just

[ashen cliff]

Just set all the interfaces into bonding mode.

[hollow swan]

If security is someone else's job.. there you go.

[spare venture]

and yeah i only have one interface on my machine

[potent fossil]

traefik handles routing for me, and everything i have bound to 0.0.0.0 is not open to the internet, so it's fine in that case

[twin lagoon]

docker bro

[hollow swan]

You always have one at least because there is loopback. If you have one ethernet port that you use, then you technically have two.

[spare venture]

ur right

[potent fossil]

@twin lagoon send k8s memes

and also nitro sub

[twin lagoon]

no

[potent fossil]

to which one

[vernal moth]

K8s is a meme

[twin lagoon]

yes

[potent fossil]

https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*bB-rHCq8L-g5xzWLqsy3EQ.png

[hollow swan]

In an enterprise environment if you run a server, like a web server, you bind it specifically to a particular interface because that is the only interface that faces the world and will have very particular firewall rules. On some other interface, like management, you would bind your other services to, like ssh, so that admins can access it.

[twin lagoon]

in an enterprise environment you containerize it

and then not worry about it

[potent fossil]

indeed, unless it's on an isolated network then you bind it to 0.0.0.0 and route that container through the firewall

send rtx boi michale

[twin lagoon]

[vernal moth]

If your enterprise doesn't use containers yet then you really be doing stuff backwards

[hollow swan]

🤦‍♂️

Sure.

[potent fossil]

dont remind me mini, last job did manual DR for my system

i had to manually put it into maintenance mode, call db admin, have him stop replication and then reverse the direction, then log into db and manually change some rows

i wish that was a joke

[vernal moth]

Heh

[ripe sphinx]

DR?

[potent fossil]

disaster recovery

[hollow swan]

Don't make too much fun of the old ways, because that's what got us here.. to this great place..

[ripe sphinx]

Oh gg

[twin lagoon]

the old ways suck though

[hollow swan]

In 20 years.. you will sucj.

[spare venture]

why would i containerize everything

what’s the benefit

[potent fossil]

but the thing is @hollow swan is that it was fundamentally broken

[hollow swan]

TCP/IP is fundamentally broken... yet..

[twin lagoon]

not if i adapt

[potent fossil]

if it were an actual disaster, what DB would we log into to stop replication and reverse direction

it'd be GONE

[spare venture]

just sounds like more work for the same exact results for my situation

[vernal moth]

Some DBA called me the other day asking when I was planning to do a big DB migration (huge update of a 3rd party software) and I was like, and I was like, bro, I just click a button and Jenkins went brrrr and deployed a new container which automatically applied migrations and everything has been running for two days

[potent fossil]

i had to draw a picture for them to understand

they finally containerized it after that

[vernal moth]

Containers allow you to have reproduceable builds

[hollow swan]

Cotainerizing certain things makes a lot of sense.

[twin lagoon]

containerize everything

[vernal moth]

That's extremly important

As soon as you do anything manually, you open yourself to issues

[potent fossil]

wait no, they didn't containerize after that but they started moving toward that by virtualizing it. before that it was all on bare metal

😔

[vernal moth]

In a world where I deploy to prod almost daily, not using containers and extreme automation would be suicide

I manage 50 applications with my team of 8 at work

I think our prod cluster is something like 2500 containers

[potent fossil]

that system i managed was the central file organization/workflow system for most of the departments in california and it was basically held together with duct tape

[vernal moth]

With a total of 600 people in IT, which includes support, project management etc

Only like 250 devs

Without docker this would be impossible

[potent fossil]

fuck im tired

[keen aspen]

how would you guys add "medium size minecraft server owner" to your resume?
Assuming i dealt with all aspects of building and managing the servers

[twin lagoon]

i wouldn't

[keen aspen]

I wanted to add small business owner

[potent fossil]

yeah, don't do that

[keen aspen]

or project manager

[vernal moth]

Where do you wanna apply?

[keen aspen]

something like that

[vernal moth]

What do you need to use the CV for?

[hollow swan]

Ah.. Application manager.. Now 'containerize everything' put into context.. makes sense.

[vernal moth]

Your CV is always different depending on whom you show it

[keen aspen]

I wanna apply for some entry-level dev positions

[potent fossil]

instead break the responsibilities of that down, and maybe put those on there

[vernal moth]

Am not a manager, am a full stack dev, lol

Officially senior java engineer I guess

But I do more JS lol

[hollow swan]

"medium size minecraft server owner" or "Managed complexities of a publicly available service for group use"

[keen aspen]

i love that

[potent fossil]

i was a mixture of application manager, developer, internal support, project manager, and SME for that system

[hollow swan]

Not my first rodeo

[vernal moth]

Oh yeah I do everything too

3rd level support is fuuuun

[spare venture]

do you guys wfh?

[potent fossil]

i mean, i had no team managing it at all. it was just me if i had to escalate, it went to the vendor support

[spare venture]

also project manager is a little bit of a stretch of a minecraft server

[hollow swan]

<- Unix admin.

[vernal moth]

Not anymore, I hated it

[spare venture]

most “real” project managers are managing projects >$100k and are managing multiple at once

[vernal moth]

Am back in office full time for like a month or two now

[potent fossil]

i was talking about my job managing the file/workflow system, not MC lmao

[vernal moth]

So a Minecraft server can't have multiple people on staff and a 5 figure budget?

[spare venture]

if someone interviewed me and claimed they were a project manager but started taking about their 100 player minecraft server i’d be confuse

[potent fossil]

i dont think anyone recommended they call themselves a project manager

you just misread what i said

[spare venture]

well i’m assuming he’s not running a server that spends 6 figures every few months

[spare venture]

.

[potent fossil]

oh, it was I who misread

😔

[vernal moth]

Have you ever seen how much people bid on voting sites?

[potent fossil]

well more coffee time

[hollow swan]

Can't say that enough.

[vernal moth]

Minecraft servers have giant budgets

[hollow swan]

☕

[spare venture]

i guess i’m just assuming he’s not in the top 25 minecraft servers since he said medium

because there’s a huge drop off after that

[minor badge]

hey mini, do you wanna start the best mc server ever with me ? ? ? ?

[hollow swan]

I only run a minecraft server for my friends. As long as they're happy..

[minor badge]

you'll get 50% of all donations ! im promise

[spare venture]

of course someone who is managing major projects at hypixel can be considered a project manager

[potent fossil]

i would probably just go with lorens recommendation and call it a day

"Managed complexities of a publicly available service for group use"

[spare venture]

learn how to market yourself and make things sound better but don’t embellish too much because it’ll turn into a huge negative fast

[potent fossil]

gotta sell it, and it's enough to pull interest, and you can talk about it later

that's not embellishing so much that it's wrong

[hollow swan]

Managed the arena for a team sport.

[vernal moth]

Ok deal. I'll apply the same amount of time I work on paper to that project

[minor badge]

[spare venture]

50% donations for 0% work 🧠

[hollow swan]

I love math.

[spare venture]

literally being paid infinite dollars an hour

sounds nice

[marble lark]

Hangar cries in the background

[obtuse ocean]

Didn't fix the lagspikes either

[chrome cosmos]

When HaNgEr

[pale river]

I also get multi second lag spikes when crossing chunks... even with that patch enabled

I don't think the server can fix it.

[chrome cosmos]

remove starlight

starlight might cause lag
when chunks genrate too fast so bigger lightning queue

[minor badge]

That's just working against the issue, then? Starlight is hundreds of times faster than Vanilla's lighting system.

[chrome cosmos]

i get this issue when joining a server for 2 seconds

[chrome cosmos]

no statlight is just not for potatoes

ooops ping

it helps a lot in my situation

others might not be as much

[void void]

hangar eta?????//?!??/?/

[chrome cosmos]

after mini works on server with mari

[vernal moth]

Hey hangar isn't paper

[chrome cosmos]

hangar is paper

but paper hangers get destroyed fast

bad joke?

[spare venture]

what are the saucy alternatives to towny these days

simpler but not too simple. anyone make something like factions but… not shitty?

[chrome cosmos]

modded server side Survival?

with tree choppers

and quests

[spare venture]

what

i’m talking about team/claiming plugins

[chrome cosmos]

ohhhh

idk then

i thought alternatives for towny

[spare venture]

that’s what i said

[worthy geode]

what makes it "not shitty" for you?

[chrome cosmos]

towny is just dead
mostly

and overused

[worthy geode]

we made our own factions plugin because we also thought that the existing ones were shitty, but I would be curious why other people think that factions/towny is bad

[golden gust]

both of them sucked in various manners especially when all you really wanted was a simple land claiming system with a few management features, etc, for RP

kingdoms looked kinda interesting in a sense but I generally refuse to pay for plugins

[worthy geode]

my main issue was that both towny and factions are chunk-based and that isn't really great if you want to have big medieval kingdoms or something similar

[golden gust]

well, you can change the size of "chunks" in towny

It's not freeform but freeform is a PITA and a massive performance horror in many cases

[worthy geode]

we basically stuck chunks together in larger regions, that worked pretty well. was just a pain to setup because you needed to manually add hundreds of chunks

[golden gust]

thats where townys walkaround feature is handy 😄

think it was towny which had that, might have been factions

Both of them had the odd feature which like, massive +1 vs the other, but they both also had stupid areas in which they lacked

[magic river]

jeez, the way to put the clock back on secondary monitors in Windows 11 is this jank Python program

[worthy geode]

we used a fork of the original factions from like 2011-2015. worked, but was a bit messy because no one really knew java. then towny for two years, which just had a lot of issues (randomly resetting chunks, even inside towns, even though that feature was turned off, towns disappearing, no UUID support), and then our own system since 2017

[worthy geode]

I would be happy if my taskbar worked correctly on the second monitor

[spare venture]

factions just has a lot of clunky commands and you know still feels like it’s a 2011 plugin. also it’s way too shallow compared to towny

[mental meadow]

you can remove it with worldedit, you just have to specify waterlogged power

[vestal jasper]

Left click is typically bound to block break

[spare venture]

would like a middle ground between towny and factions. towny has just had so much crap added to it over time that it’s an over complicated mess

am already doing so much custom crap for my own server on my own and don’t really want to throw a teams/claiming plugin on top of that

[worthy geode]

I would say "use FactionsXL", but im currently reworking it for the new map so its not really usable. and there are no docs on it anyways, so yeah

you could fork factions and add the features that you are missing to it

[spare venture]

i’ll just stick to towny. was just curious if something new had hit the scene

the user experience kinda sucks for it, which is part of it

might fork it and add some GUIs and stuff

[worthy geode]

townys code is a big mess, so that will be "fun" 😄

[spare venture]

ohhh yeah i’ve touched it a couple times

might just make a GUI plugin that depends on it so i don’t have to navigate it

[worn ember]

just make a web interface

[spare venture]

ur right

[void void]

https://tenor.com/view/tracy-morgan-smh-shake-my-head-hell-no-no-gif-4844098

just because they are owned by microsoft doesn't mean they have to be obsessed with becoming entirely microsoft this microsoft that, next thing the minecraft website will be microsoft.com/minecraft

[worthy geode]

I mean, thats what "owned by company x" means?

Valve also wouldn't put Dota in the epic store

[void void]

there is nothing wrong with minecraft launcher just being an exe

[cunning raft]

it's for xbox game pass integration

as java edition is now free for xbox game pass members

[worthy geode]

one launcher for both editions, also they can do the launcher updating using the store which is easier

[rotund palm]

How can I disable redstone loops?

Is there smth in clearlagg or in essentials

[golden gust]

!ban 298046868624113665 if you're gonna leave, take your spam with you

[thorny flicker]

:raised_hands: Banned CEO of Racism#9054 (if you're gonna leave, take your spam with you) [1 total infraction] -- electronicboy#8869.

[worthy geode]

Redstone clocks? there are plugins for it, "anti redstone clock" or something like that.
You could also just tell your players to not build them if they don't want a laggy server

[warm anchor]

@rotund palm https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/antiredstoneclock-worldguard-plotsquard-support-1-8-1-17.18557/

Remove clearlagg and properly config your server instead. The plugin is not needed @rotund palm

[spare venture]

well they can be needed

[warm anchor]

With farm control to limit mobs, insight to limit blocks, I don’t see it being useful IMO.

If you ever have the need to teleport to questionable farm, you can use pheonix’s entity detection and same thing to redstone builds (inslights)

[spare venture]

yeah i haven’t looked into insight so you’re probably right

[warm anchor]

But with proper limit you will never need clearlagg’s freeze feature or any of its detection features

It’s pretty cool you should try it. Fills the void of block limits outside of PS

[spare venture]

i just use mob farm manager and it has per chunk block limits

i didn’t like how FarmLimiter does stuff in groups instead of per chunk

[warm anchor]

Oh I see. Make sense

[tropic flame]

they still offer a .msiinstaller like they used to, just fake your user agent so the website thinks you're in Windows 7 or 8.1

(it'd also suck for linux and macOS users to just be thrown into a store they cannot use lol)

[tropic flame]

either this or, well, just scroll down, you should find it there

[void void]

hot take

[vestal jasper]

[void void]

the fact linux is written in c means its kinda broken by design

everywwhere you can input text there is potentially remote code executio

[ripe sphinx]

erm I don't think that's how that works

[void void]

explain how

my paranoia levels 📈

[vestal jasper]

Correlation does not imply causation

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that it does

That has little to do with the language

And more the person using it

[void void]

the fact that even pros make the mistak tho

seems to be a little to do with the language

[vestal jasper]

Also that info doesn't prove or disprove either point. And sorry you're making the positive claim not me.

I'm not submitting evidence on your behalf

[void void]

you get what im saying tho

would simply not happen in strongly typed java 💪

https://google.github.io/security-research/pocs/linux/bleedingtooth/writeup.html

looking at so many of these you start to notice patterns

[meager tusk]

@vale rune Bro.

Kosovo server when?!

[vale rune]

Soon bro.

[void void]

we need to code a new operating system in java

that way there can not be any exploits

🧠 🧠 🧠 🧠 🧠 🧠 🧠 🧠 🧠

[vale rune]

We need to delete Java.

No exploits that way either.

Counter my point, go on.

[void void]

java never has any exploits 🧠

c++/c coders when someone types a /0

[vale rune]

@meager tusk k'ta s'jon mirë pasha Zotin.

[meager tusk]

Indeed.

[vale rune]

@ashen cliff @meager tusk #balkan-politics when?

Instant 230k messages.

[ashen cliff]

Instant.

[meager tusk]

No.

1 message.

Europe je Albanije.

[vale rune]

Fact!

[olive marlin]

https://github.com/nuta/kerla

[vale rune]

Here before Europe was a thing. 🇦🇱💪

[olive marlin]

Rust, like any language can have them. That's something language-agnostic.

[void void]

not really

java doesnt have it

[meager tusk]

Booooo.

[olive marlin]

But it provides higher-level structures to automatically size vectors.

[void void]

java throws an error whe nit happens

and stops

[meager tusk]

Does user input in string.format count

or nah

[void void]

dont use string.format its bad performance

[olive marlin]

Hmm
https://download.oracle.com/sunalerts/1020226.1.html
https://download.oracle.com/sunalerts/1019742.1.html
Should I paste more buffer overflow exploits in Java?

Every languages kinda has to have them.

[ripe sphinx]

js?

[tropic flame]

and btw the JVM is written in C/C++

[void void]

fake

ok but

[tropic flame]

just saying lmfao

[tropic flame]

something i can agree with

[spare venture]

should’ve made it in matlab

[tropic flame]

http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/280

[void void]

why does chrome have so many critical bugs

[tropic flame]

Java's string concatenation through + does not compile into stringbuilder anymore

[void void]

that shit is embarasing

[spare venture]

$2,150 for a license, keeps the shitty devs out of the scene

[tropic flame]

it uses a faster way through invokedynamic and some internal classes

[void void]

there is no way they arent doing it on purpose

[tropic flame]

so just use it instead of string.format lmao

faster + sweet type safety on compile time

[spare venture]

templates tho

[void void]

tbh its good for the pen testers

because it keeps their job

[spare venture]

yeah it’s all a conspiracy for job security

[void void]

yes

when do you think people will care about ipv6?

[wispy blade]

when we run out of ipv4 completely

so give it 5-ish years

[void void]

nah

we wont

because the addresses are just recycled

and routers

[spare venture]

people already do

[void void]

up 40% from 1000 addresses to 1400 addressses 😆

[olive marlin]

These numbers are not necessarily correct, as for example we have IPv6 behind NAT.

So we use IPv4 connection translated to IPv6

And my stupid ISP doesn't support connecting 3rd party modem/router unless you disable this feature and only use IPv4

[magic river]

You mean 6to4?

[ashen cliff]

Lets see if Ubuntu fixed their IPv6 APT servers yet.

[magic river]

Or 464XLAT?

Oh wait I think that one needs OS support and only Linux has it

[ashen cliff]

Epic, they did. Just took them 2 weeks...

[magic river]

If you have NAT64 Google would count you as an IPv4 user and be right about it

[void void]

ipv6 cringe spam ipv4 based integer

ipv6 shoulda just ben v4 with more dots 😭 1.1.1.1.1.1

[vale rune]

IPKO moment. Based.

[void void]

6 dots instead of 4

[olive marlin]

I'm not sure. I know we often had IPv4 downtime, but Google and such continued to work cause it uses IPv6

[void void]

actually 8 so it fits in long 😄

[magic river]

I guess 464XLAT would count you as IPv4 and be right about it too

That just means you either have IPv6 or have a Google box inside your network

[olive marlin]

But I believe it was IPv6 on PC, translated to IPv4 on the box, translated back to IPv6 as it left ISP?

[magic river]

Oh I guess Windows 10, iOS, and FreeBSD support 464XLAT now too

[olive marlin]

It was some weird shit when I looked into it.

Caused by ISP infra not supporting IPv4.

[magic river]

The client uses a SIIT translator to convert packets from IPv4 to IPv6. These are then sent to a NAT64 translator which translates them from IPv6 back into IPv4 and on to an IPv4-only server. The client translator may be implemented on the client itself or on an intermediate device and is known as the CLAT (Customer-side transLATor). The NAT64 translator, or PLAT (Provider-side transLATor), must be able to reach both the server and the client (through the CLAT). The use of NAT64 limits connections to a client-server model using UDP, TCP, and ICMP.

That would be IPv4 on your PC, IPv6 inside the ISP network, and then IPv4 again out to the internet

Usually only cellular networks are set up like that

[olive marlin]

Nah, it was definitely using IPv6 in web connections.

I believe all of ISP infra is IPv4 only, so it translated it on the edges.

[magic river]

DS-Lite is where the PC has IPv6, encapsulates IPv4 in IPv6 to send over the ISP's network, then the ISP uses CGNAT for IPv4 connections

I can't think of a network setup that would give you an IPv6 address but have the ISP network be IPv4 only

Well, there is 6to4 and Teredo

But those wouldn't keep working when IPv4 stuff went down because to the ISP they mostly look like normal IPv4

I guess there is 6rd too but same thing, if the ISP's IPv4 network died it wouldn't make sense for that to keep working

What ISP do you have?

I guess maybe if they were doing 6rd and had different peers for IPv6 connectivity it's possible their internal network was working but their connection to the IPv4 internet goes down while their IPv6 one stays up

Or vice versa

[olive marlin]

UPC, which is probably the biggest ISP in the country?

[spare venture]

lmfao

[magic river]

They're not listed on wikipedia as an ISP using 6rd but I guess it's probably not complete

[spare venture]

more dots and letters instead of numbers. done

[wispy blade]

who needs wacky colons!

i mean

[ashen cliff]

Just force everything to be a domain.

[wispy blade]

it uses hexadecimal values of 2 characters so it's still techically 1.1.1.1.1.1

[spare venture]

humans do to survive

[magic river]

As of 2018 it seems UPC was using CGNAT for IPv4 and some kind of tunneling for IPv6, probably 6rd or NAT64 then

I guess if they had NAT64 they wouldn't bother giving IPv4 addresses though

[little frost]

neither of which really exist at this point

[plucky sparrow]

Any progress

With valk

[wispy blade]

yes

i made build scripts cuz am laze

[plucky sparrow]

I’ve seen the commits

But what’s the state so far

[wispy blade]

preprepreprepreprealpha

i have to get into networking very soon so... a

i know nothing about networking so this'll be fun

[vale rune]

Bro. Don't worry bro.

@ashen cliff'll have you ready for CCIE trial in 3 days if you want bro.

[wispy blade]

bro.

[magic river]

oof DRM from even very recent games fails on Intel's new CPUs

RIP Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Origins, and Valhalla

RIP Shadow of the Tomb Raider

[potent fossil]

i still need to play valhalla one of these days. i tried but it was really different from older titles in the series and I had trouble getting into it

[void void]

naomi ccna when

[wispy blade]

what

no

i don't care about certifications

[viscid wedge]

post launch DRM is evil

[wispy blade]

ceo of linuxing is back :pog:

[pale river]

Blame the DRM, not intel.

[void void]

inb4 mcdonalds soda in water cup drm

[viscid wedge]

I never left

[foggy elbow]

12900k

Single Thread Rating: 4314

5900x

Single Thread Rating: 3496

(on cpubenchmark.net)

Wowwwwwww, that's insane

so next ryzen will get 4500 single maybe

[ancient bolt]

the 12900k looks really impressive

It's DDR5, which gives it some definite advantages over zen3, but the fact that it can beat the 5900x and 5950x in some scenarios is really impressive

[twin lagoon]

memory latency probably worse though

[warm anchor]

AMD won’t need too much to catch-up RAM wise

[ancient bolt]

We won't know how AMD responds to this until we see results of zen4, though. I have no idea or prediction of how zen4 will stack up

the 12900k only barely keeps up or beats the 5900 series CPUs, so even if AMD has a smaller performance improvement over the last few generations, it'll still be on top, though

[warm anchor]

competition is always a good thing

[ancient bolt]

good news is AMD hasn't had a decade+ without competition like intel did

so I won't be surprised if they've continued to push forward with zen4

[foggy elbow]

I'll look into more benchmarks of the 12900k, and if ovh release it, see the price.
DDR5 would be really good 🙂

but I doubt they really get 25% better single than 11X

[fossil patio]

12900k looks cool, i bought a 5950x yesterday tho just because of the wattage difference

100+ watts for a 5% improvement

12600k though, game changer. would love to see that in a laptop, would go up against m1 pretty well

[ancient bolt]

it would be a 12600hk for laptop use

I think that's the standard naming

I don't think it would be able to compete with M1 at all

it still has the same x86 issues and lower efficiency that intel has always had

[foggy elbow]

m1 is way different, benchmark can't really be compared

[ancient bolt]

real world performance can be compared

[foggy elbow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRdfJplVryQ

if thoses are real and on the same cooling, so 12900k is a masterpiece

10°c less than 5900x

[twin lagoon]

probably 10 times more electricity usage though

[foggy elbow]

10-20% difference depending on games

[twin lagoon]

o the video has wattage shown

[foggy elbow]

yeah

[twin lagoon]

that's not bad but those are useless benchmarks for minecraft / anything that isn't game related

intel has always outperformed amd ryzen cpus whe it comes to gaming

[foggy elbow]

on some games 12900k get lower consumption

[ancient bolt]

on youtube the only thing you ever need a CPU for is games I guess

[foggy elbow]

I thought 12900k would be shit, but no

[ancient bolt]

in almost all cases games are GPU-bound, not CPU bound though

[foggy elbow]

11XXX serie was bad

[twin lagoon]

need to see a microsoft flight sim benchmark actually

[ancient bolt]

the 11xxx series still beat zen3 in some gaming scenarios

[foggy elbow]

there is in the video

[ancient bolt]

that was the only thing they could really claim

[twin lagoon]

10fps difference

that's insane for msfs

[foggy elbow]

intel consumes less power on flight simulator

[twin lagoon]

my fucking 3700x bottlenecks my 3080 in msfs

[foggy elbow]

and keep a 50°c

this year intel was incredible, glad to see 🙂

[twin lagoon]

eh it's not that exciting

[foggy elbow]

compared to 10th and 11th, it is

[ancient bolt]

that makes a lot of sense to me - msfs likely eats memory with how many resources it's constantly loading. higher throughput ddr5 memory likely helps a lot

[twin lagoon]

it's both cpu & memory heavy

needs single threaded performance

[ancient bolt]

I'm aware lol

[twin lagoon]

because a lot of it is still single threaded

performance is actually really good since the last 3 sim updates or so

should also keep in mind the 5900x is already a year old and still performs very well

[ancient bolt]

I play msfs with a 3080 and a 5950x, but play on a 60fps screen, so don't really notice either capping

zen4 is the actual direct comparison for the 12000 series

[twin lagoon]

yeah

[ancient bolt]

it will have PCIe 5, DDR 5, etc

[foggy elbow]

in 1 year there will be 13th serie

[twin lagoon]

even if you compare the 5900x with the 12900k, the difference isn't that big

factor in the fact that intel literally just releases a new socket for every new generation at this point, costs are pretty high

[foggy elbow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhI9tLOg-6I

this video is the best to see the 12900k

it's complete and test a lot of interesting things

[twin lagoon]

wonder when there's something as groundbreaking as the ryzen 3000 series again though

[foggy elbow]

except the price, the 5000 serie was insane

[twin lagoon]

5000 series cpu is priced very well imo

the first months were rough because of covid stock issues

but it's really good now

[foggy elbow]

I'm speaking about launch yeah

[ancient bolt]

zen4 will be a pretty big change, moving from zen3's current 7nm process to 5nm. Engineering sample tests have shown significant improvements over zen3 - like 30% - but that's all speculation at this point. Apparently some new TSMC capabilities may also lead to more densely-packed chips, which can also dramatically improve CPU performance

[twin lagoon]

yeah i'm expecting big improvements

something about 3d v-cache aswell

[ancient bolt]

5000 series prices are fine, covid fucked everything up in CPU and GPU world

[foggy elbow]

1 more year to wait, and see the result

Now I want to switch from my 9900k to a 12900k 😦

but I'll wait, too expensive with motherboard and ddr5 lol

[ancient bolt]

apparently there may be 1 more zen3 release before then, but there is no confirmation about that, so probably just a rumor

[foggy elbow]

250w for the cpu :c

[ancient bolt]

AMD really doesn't need to release any new CPUs right now

[foggy elbow]

they don't need to make like intel and bring new cpu every year with very minor change

[twin lagoon]

12900k is like 200 EUR more than the 5900X here

for the price difference you're literally better off getting a 5900x for overall performance & efficiency

[ancient bolt]

I think 3d v-cache may be a zen3 thing

if they do indeed release 1 final zen3 series of chips

[twin lagoon]

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-confirms-ryzen-cpu-refresh-with-3d-v-cache-early-in-2022/

[ancient bolt]

so that's definitely zen3/am4

[foggy elbow]

I wanted to switch to amd, but now I hesitate, it's really nice that both constructor try to outperform the other

then amd has to outperform nvidia (not only in term of price/perf)

[twin lagoon]

their next gpu probably will

they're equal at this point

[ancient bolt]

I won't be convinced intel is "back" until we see long-term result for the 12000 series, and see how the 13000 series does

[foggy elbow]

As always, 13000 serie will be nearly the same, but better

I might be wrong, but intel rarely do big change every year

[ancient bolt]

the 11000 series was not better than the 1000 series

[foggy elbow]

10/11th serie were shit

[vestal jasper]

@vale saddle moving from paper-dev, just got a Commodore PET up and running after a few years of collecting dust

[twin lagoon]

josh

[vestal jasper]

the 0 key's fucked and no amount of cleaning will save it so I might have to salvage a rubber pad from a spare commodore

[lament patio]

I feel like Zen3D will catch right back up to Intel since the improvements were small over Ryzen

[vale saddle]

Oh wow, nice :)

[vestal jasper]

michael 😳

[twin lagoon]

uwu

[vestal jasper]

its keyboard is anything but pleasant to use

[foggy elbow]

Wow 12900k supports ddr4 ?? I didn't know it was possible 😮

[vestal jasper]

it's at a steep angle and it's several inches off of the desk

so your hands are just... floating the entire time Lol

[twin lagoon]

the first gen ddr5 supported cpus will always have support for ddr4

same story when ddr4 came out

skylake supported both ddr3 & ddr4

[ancient bolt]

supporting only the most recent is a great way to get people not to buy your chip

[foggy elbow]

Didn't remember that, I was 14-15yo :c

[twin lagoon]

especially considering the stock issues with ddr5 lol

[foggy elbow]

I might change my cpu next year, depending on new cpu

[vale saddle]

Having 256gb DIMMs for a minecraft server is the equivalent to getting a 3090 for only minecraft with shaders

[foggy elbow]

why are you talking about me and my 3090 only playing minecraft without shaders

[vale saddle]

🙃

[ancient bolt]

shaders in minecraft are lame

[lament patio]

The difference being that 3090 will still have trouble

[vale saddle]

and the 256gb dimms will not?

[foggy elbow]

I don't regret the 3000 series, the temperature are fine now, compared to the 2000 series that were pretty hot

[vale saddle]

Imagine

having 100 worlds loaded

[ancient bolt]

you'd be better off running multiple MC servers

[foggy elbow]

perplayerworldspro

[vale saddle]

I have a 3060 mobile, I really like it tbf, underrated

[vale saddle]

pfff laughs in 64 render distance

[foggy elbow]

I also tried the 2060 mobile a year ago, I liked my hot potato

[vale saddle]

gaming machine and heater in one