*Bedrock edition is roblos
#general
void void
I’d rather use k*tlin than lua
solid sapphire
yes
wispy blade
i'd rather use C++ than Lua
plucky sparrow
Windogs you mean
wispy blade
legit had to ask a friend for a linux vm on his server so i could work on bochtkoorts 
nimble depot
Ah yes, Japan
twin lagoon
plucky sparrow
<@!215448923681062913> <:AYAYARie:788407255200038912> found your JP shop
is mihcoal the owner of binbows?!?????
warm anchor
Good morning aururorororororra
twin lagoon
waxen panther
@mental meadow 
heady spear
<@!378225705282174979> ❤️
uwu
pseudo shadow
void void
👋
tropic flame
oh guys it's Michael Soft, creator of the Kinect!!
pallid raptor
Holy shit my server had a massive thread dump error
untold copper
cutting butter like this should be illegal
untold copper
i hate my sister.
pallid raptor
That’s a death penalty
pallid raptor
Many things
vernal moth
Imagine using butter
wide chasm
Butter's great
vernal moth
Nothing.
void void
butter on bread is overrated
full rune
i want my mouth to not be a desert when i eat bread
vernal moth
Don't buy desert bread then
full rune
or i spread some butter on the bread
vernal moth
Or are you living in some of these fucked up countries where you only have white bread?
full rune
hell no
formal turret
there are countries where you can only buy white bread?
void void
is that a thing?
full rune
i hope not
void void
sounds american
formal turret
it's not american...
tropic flame
are there countries where you can buy bread?
formal turret
i could go to the store and buy some rosemary bread
spiral robin
Hi
left swift
America is probably one of the countries where you can buy 600 versions of the same thing lol
wispy blade
points at china
ashen cliff
America is probably one of the countries where you can buy 600 versions of the s...
And 599 of those things are mostly made in China. 
left swift
Yo you think pre-buttered bread is a thing
formal turret
it is
left swift
formal turret
it's in the frozen section and you put it in the oven
golden gust
Bro, I can et a full sandwich premade
left swift
U can wat
golden gust
The trick is to take a trip to your grandparents house and act like you've not been fed in 10 years
formal turret
lmao
left swift
What if you dont have grandparents
golden gust
self yeet
void void
Yo you think pre-buttered bread is a thing
I mean, pre-cracked eggs are a thing in the US
so might not be that far of a stretch
ashen cliff
What if you dont have grandparents
In that case, visit some random grandparents.
formal turret
the jug of egg whites?
golden gust
Do you not have friends with grandparents?!
formal turret
or does it include the yolks too
left swift
I dont have friends
left swift
left swift
left swift
Bitmoji 
quick pasture
I mean, pre-cracked eggs are a thing in the US
Also in the netherlands 👀
waxen panther
pre-cracked is different to precooked
quick pasture
But yeah ig if ur lazy af lol
waxen panther
sulu 🥺
formal turret
i've only seen the cartons you can buy of egg whites
and they're usually used for baking
quick pasture
Oh but you can also buy pre cracked from which are in some sort of milk carton
formal turret
oh, i've never seen actual pre-cracked eggs then
waxen panther
<@&748618676189528155>
tropic flame
i like my eggs like i like my minecraft: cracked
jk i paid for the game thx
waxen panther
i am CRACKED
left swift
GOATED ON THE STICKS
mossy vessel
left swift
Fimally!
formal turret
oh, haha
left swift
Haha, oh
wispy blade
obvious plant
formal turret
i feel like a bag of milk would leak more easily
but i guess if that was the case it wouldn't be sold
nimble depot
meant this
this made me loose faith in humanity again
worn ember
Pretty much all 1l cartons here
void void
this made me loose faith in humanity again
why?
https://i.imgur.com/cIcTSro.png he clearly enjoys
worn ember
i cant cook for shit and even i can crack an egg
if you cant crack an egg you deserve to starve
wispy blade
unless you are physically incapable
potent fossil
I'm just imagining DED with kids one day (scary thought in itself) explaining to them that they will starve unless they learn to crack an egg and cook it meanwhile they can't even reach the stove bc short af
worn ember
I'm just imagining DED with kids one day (scary thought in itself) explaining to...
yes, my toddlers will be dropped at a deserted island to fend for themself
void void
Is ClearLagg bad?
left swift
Yes
void void
and why is that?
give me a good reason, because i have NEVER had any issues with it in 5 years.
formal turret
ah nice bad faith arguing
potent fossil
Why come here and ask if you don't want the answer?
left swift
.optimize2
plucky sparrow
if it's so good then why are you asking
potent fossil
Dear god
left swift
.optimize
formal turret
if you believe it's good just continue to use it
formal turret
and ignore everyone here
limber knotBOT
additional tips for improving server performance - https://www.spigotmc.org/posts/3684550
plucky sparrow
thinkn't?
left swift
Read the 2nd link
void void
because of @dire trench saying that it is crap.
formal turret
well ignore him then
dire trench
What?!
void void
you said it was a garbage plugin.
worn ember
its not bad, but you should solve your issues through configs as much as you can
void void
i have NEVER had any issues.
void void
its not bad, but you should solve your issues through configs as much as you can
Which i have no issues in 5 years...
lol
potent fossil
Ok can you both stfu and take it to DMs quit clogging up paper with this dumb shit
formal turret
ok well continue to use it then
void void
Causes more lag than it solves
and as i told you, unless you know how to configure it right. LOL
formal turret
and don't worry about what other people are saying
worn ember
i used to use it for modded mc, never for vanilla tho
mossy vessel
Simple hits the nail
unkempt drift
can I prevent anyone, including admins from pushing to a branch on gh? only modifying by pull request?
mossy vessel
Branch protection ignores admins
dire trench
How does the new seed thing work with paper?
unkempt drift
there's an "include administartors" thing in branch protection
mossy vessel
That's for all other settings but that one
golden gust
afaik you can just create a branch protection and then basically say that the branch needs checks to modify
then afaik the only people who can bypass are the owners, I think?
mossy vessel
golden gust
GH perms are fucking stupid and you're basically stuck within all their confines
mossy vessel
Just don't give people you don't trust admin ;p
wispy blade
unkempt drift
well that's not what I'm worried about, its more for my sake
formal turret
@dire trench put the configured feature name in the field and a seed minecraft:ore_diamond: 2321211
idk if there is a list of configured features on the mc wiki anywhere but jpenilla pulled all the vanilla ones out here https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/pull/6121#issuecomment-876026629
formal turret
it prevented the clay mining trick
dire trench
Is there anyway I can?
quasi valley
not at the moment
formal turret
oh it doesn't even do that? kenny?
dire trench
Unfortunate
plucky sparrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ra3-DPAJFfc
I'd like to pin you to a wall 🥺
quasi valley
you can still use noise, biomes, structures for seed cracking
formal turret
oh, nevermind i misread
twin lagoon
@waxen panther 
waxen panther
@twin lagoon 
mossy vessel
mod coordinator
formal turret
thought about this yesterday... would it make sense to make new APIs to replace old ones (like Material) before a hardfork? and just have them run alongside the current ones? then you get devs to support the new APIs earlier
feel a bit weird asking that since it's not really my project but just something i thought about yesterday
gilded cedar
Don’t use it 😄
oh hi rebel this was where you where ralking about clearlagg 😆
quasi valley
thought about this yesterday... would it make sense to make new APIs to replace ...
Yeah, the question is just, how feasible and maintainable is doing that before actually splitting off upstream
waxen panther
thought about this yesterday... would it make sense to make new APIs to replace ...
hard fork isnt real dont let them fool you
quasi valley
true
formal turret
oh, suppose that's true, are you meaning the maintainability of the diff for the internal classes?
quasi valley
yessir, as well as events and newly added api
urban depot
minecraft code is full of unnecessary crap can it be cleaned up ever
it's detrimental to my motivation
potent fossil
i mean, are we talking about mojang's code or other people's code
potent fossil
??
urban depot
java and yml together
potent fossil
tf are you on about
wispy blade
imagine if plugins used json for config files
urban depot
why can't someone just make one working config file that every setting for every plugin is in
potent fossil
"urgh dey only hav yaml support dat mean can only use yaml urgh cant use other library urggh brain too small"
mossy vessel
Instead of ranting here, maybe bring it up to that specific plugin author(s)?
urban depot
im addressing every plugin author here
potent fossil
this is not worth my time, back to physics
wispy blade
first of all, putting every config option in a single file would mean there'd be a huge config.yml
disk IO 📈
mossy vessel
pft simple, I'm making jam
potent fossil
from what??? im so confused
what the heck is wrong with yaml
what do you want instead
urban depot
one file
potent fossil
the fuck
urban depot
but anyway that ain't coming soon
potent fossil
we have multiple files because we are a fork of a fork of bukkit
bukkit had its own, spigot had its own, we had our own
it might merge when they hard fork and split away but who knows my guy
urban depot
i'm talking about plugin configs chill
potent fossil
🤦♂️
left swift
I feel sick
potent fossil
i hate users, i really do
left swift
Hope I dont got rona
wispy blade
imagine putting everything into one file where it's harder to find plugin specific settings
pallid raptor
I feel sick
Rest then
potent fossil
this is why I don't make plugins anymore, because y'all are really this mf dumb
urban depot
imagine putting everything into one file where it's harder to find plugin specif...
just have headings that can be jumped to
urban depot
minecraft's becoming more popular so more people are teaching themselves to make aserver
logic
pallid raptor
Okay so people are mad I’ll speak when everyone’s chilled then
mossy vessel
Everyone can do whatever they like, it's not like the standard is to have one file with headers so you can "jump" to them lol
urban depot
you have to change folder to change different settings
wispy blade
which is organized
so you don't accidentally edit pluginA's config instead of pluginB's config
potent fossil
Imagine not using a tabbed editor and opening the entire config folder and then just switching tabs
But sorry forgot I was talking to literal walnut brains
urban depot
imagine having tabs as different places in one file
pallid raptor
But sorry forgot I was talking to literal walnut brains
Don’t need to be rude... Chill out bro
potent fossil
Been spending too long in my college discord hub, come back here and get this brain numbing shit man
pallid raptor
You seem mad just chill
potent fossil
I'm heading out, have fun
pallid raptor
Okay so I’m guessing it’s calm now 😂
wispy blade
if it's so cumbersome for you to change folders to edit config files, just reduce the amount of plugins 🧠
pallid raptor
So that’s why he’s was so mad
magic river
Wait wait wait, you want the Windows registry?
left swift
Nah simple just gets triggered easily just another day
magic river
I mean, dconf is pretty nice on GNOME but it's also a PITA until you learn the tooling
left swift
He come back later with coffee and all be good
potent fossil
Why is this 14 year old so obsessed with me?
wispy blade
lmfao
potent fossil
Speaking of coffee, great idea
left swift
Lol wat
wispy blade
@potent fossil how do you like your coffee?
pallid raptor
Why is this 14 year old so obsessed with me?
Who?
left swift
Getting aches and chills I'm bout to dead
urban depot
coffee will become outdated
urban depot
Getting aches and chills I'm bout to dead
sleep for a day then you'll be as awake as 36 hours
wispy blade
bro it's friday
urban depot
say you got covid
wispy blade
you can sleep
left swift
I'm one of 2 ppl at my job that does my stuff I cant take off work and I work every day
potent fossil
<@!698668938661331045> how do you like your coffee?
French press, brewed for 4 mins with ~3 tbsp of coffee
left swift
potent fossil
Water is boiling as we speak 😎
wispy blade
French press, brewed for 4 mins with ~3 tbsp of coffee
puts the cup into the machine, places mug below it
wispy blade
i know, was just pointing out how fancy it was compared to me
urban depot
coffee is fake energyh
potent fossil
I don't drink it for energy, I drink it for my off the mf wall ADHD
urban depot
f ok
left swift
Simple is fancy
potent fossil
Chills me out instead of energizes me
urban depot
fair enough
wispy blade
left swift
He owns an air fryer
potent fossil
It broke
wispy blade
yes, hang on, fart is brewing as we speak
potent fossil
🚶♂️
wispy blade
tech needs to advance so we can send smells online
be the change you want to see
urban depot
ok i will personally deliver smells
void void
afaik a product like that existed
and people only sent each other shit smells
and then the company went bankrupt
the end
potent fossil
Back in high school the army had this VR shit that included smells so it's def possible
urban depot
no way
potent fossil
I never thought I would be one to say "back in my high school days"
wispy blade
wasnt there a product that put smells into vr but it got banned by the FDA or smth?
potent fossil
Old ass fuckin man moment 😔
urban depot
the only way possible right now is to have tech that creates a smell from what it has when it's instructed to do it. That's not sending a smell, it's sending a signal to release the certain smell that's already there
invent something
urban depot
"scent synthesizer"
potent fossil
i mean, in any case you have to have the materials on your end, and then receive a signal to synthesize a smell
urban depot
i'm not impressed.
void void
wasnt there a product that put smells into vr but it got banned by the FDA or sm...
yes
potent fossil
for actually sending smells you'd need to legitimately be sending chemicals over the network which is like wat
urban depot
or
left swift
Spooky
left swift
Fart VR realism
potent fossil
i mean, in any case you have to have the materials on your end, and then receive...
.
that
wispy blade
and then there's the problem of how would you do this in realtime?
urban depot
this world is ****ed up
potent fossil
if you do it that way you can do it at the same speed of the internet really, all the synthesizer would have to do is know what chemicals make up what smell, quickly mix a small amount and blow it toward you with a fan
but ppl gotta have chemicals then and it's just a mess
urban depot
ok
worn ember
they tried 4D cinema's with smells and stuff
but they had to scrap the idea cuz in the end everything smelled like poop cuz of all the mixed smells
potent fossil
those were the shit way back when
urban depot
but what if there was a computer that didnt have things that directly hold chemicals and it can build anything from particles but to protect it from terrorists or people who want to mess around with it it would have unbreakable encryption that the smell data andd chemical instructions hide behind and when the smell is made its released but the instructions for the smell to be made have to be vague enough not to be harmful at the other end
boom
worn ember
potent fossil
smell synthesis is really just chemistry it's not some secret
you can study that anywhere
worn ember
actually making those smells really depends on what ur making to be able to reproduce it
worn ember
or dont run
wispy blade
unbreakable encryption
urban depot
the whole point is to send smells though
urban depot
>unbreakable encryption
<:kekw:674093681963302933>
i mean like apple
potent fossil
ye so just send a chemical reaction equation
potent fossil
lul
worn ember
sour gas smell
potent fossil
sorry not cadmium in water, caesium
magic river
but what if there was a computer that didnt have things that directly hold chemi...
This is called a replicator
potent fossil
magic river
It's also 1 heisenberg compensator away from being a transporter
magic river
Dude you knew what it was
potent fossil
😔
wispy blade
all you have to do is make their components draw more power than its psu can handle
dunno how you wanna do that though
urban depot
heck no
potent fossil
im not sure that'll explode as much as it'll short out but maybe
urban depot
i cant even manage plugins
wispy blade
im not sure that'll explode as much as it'll short out but maybe
that and the breaker will switch
magic river
When asked by Time magazine in 1994, "How do the Heisenberg compensators work?" Michael Okuda replied, "They work just fine, thank you."
lol, I think I was slightly too old for these games but I sure do remember playing through Pajama Sam with a cousin
Humble Bundle has all of them in the latest bundle
Pajama Sam and Freddi Fish
wispy blade
yoooooo Pajama Sam and Freddi Fish
potent fossil
I was just messing btw, I'm literally a member of https://sfi.org/
wispy blade
front page has overstretched jpegs? count me in.
magic river
potent fossil
Oh yeah the website is horrible
urban depot
WEHAT THE FUCK
my iphone broke to water damage
i put it in rice
it said Restore
i just chaged it after a week to restore it
it powered on
no data lost
WTF
ok
left swift
Did u try drinking the water
urban depot
for real this is weird
whole sail
I wanted to close the ports of my servers with spigot's guide only that when I try to close them the server no longer gives a response until I reset the iptables rules anyone can help me?
warm anchor
@left swift @potent fossil HAPPY WEEKEND
left swift
No u
urban depot
Happy weekend @warm anchor
warm anchor
left swift
wispy blade
wtf, not wishing me a happy weekend @warm anchor
potent fossil
<@121769553603723265> <@!698668938661331045> HAPPY WEEKEND
it's FRIDAY
warm anchor
@wispy blade 
urban depot
it's FRIDAY
GRINCH ALERT
warm anchor
Long weekend! @potent fossil
potent fossil
I have to call HR still
warm anchor
Labor Day 
golden gust
call me, daddy
warm anchor
Sup daddy 
pallid raptor
Gotta love DeluxeHub preventing your server from starting because you was editing it while you had an threading error
Took me 3 fucking hours to fix it
Because one menu file was fucking up my server
warm anchor
Yes I’d be more worried if server is allowed to run
pallid raptor
It is
It’s fine now
Literally randomly thread errored
While I was editing DelixeHub
DeluxeHub*
left swift
Step on me daddy
formal turret
uh
left swift
call me, daddy
wispy blade
wish NL had arcades so i could play IIDX without either yoinking an iso or downloading 100+ GB of BMS charts
and then still needing a €200+ controller
twin lagoon
@mental meadow
worn ember
unkempt drift
essentialsx is pro mohist iirc? 😛
unkempt drift
https://essentialsx.net/do-not-use-mohist.html <--- just a simple april fools joke
wispy blade
yes
worn ember
this dude sent me his log and all i see is errors lmfao
worn ember
well its only like 100 lines long, i'm waiting for the full log now
worn ember
https://essentialsx.net/do-not-use-mohist.html <--- just a simple april fools jo...
stop lying bro
left swift
All essentialsx do is make essx D and LIE
wispy blade
all they know is be bisexual, charge they phone, eat hot chip and lie
formal turret
classic minecraft drama
wispy blade
yeah
one last thing before i go sleep
the virgin vtuber pfp vs the chad touhou pfp
cya later suckers
thick wharf
So, you can now get an atomic clock for your computer for less than $2000. I wonder if that would be helpful at all in running a network of Minecraft servers.
wispy blade
ntpd
golden gust
I mean, if it can make monotonic system time calls cheaper 😄
urban depot
just get one of those $20 atomic alarm clocks and somehow take it apart to save money
left swift
the virgin vtuber pfp vs the chad touhou pfp
Loli weebs 🤢
void void
you should be able to run /data get entity <tab> while looking at the dog
it should show the owner's uuid in there somewhere
worn ember
hmm who wouldve thought running spigot+forge would cause issues
or well paper+forge ig
formal turret
that's my preferred way to run mc servers
worn ember
idk i think its funny how people use super obscure things and then complain when it breaks
formal turret
i have to modify all these plugins so i can run my paperforge server
worn ember
just use sponge at that point
formal turret
idk i think its funny how people use super obscure things and then complain when...
not sure if i'd call it funny, more expected
unkempt drift
stop lying bro
whats this?
worn ember
a screenshot from the guy using Mohist
couldnt get the dude to send me anything more than whatever was on his screen so
¯_(ツ)_/¯
looks like something is messing with the chunk system too
formal turret
are you running your RTP plugin on mohist?
formal turret
oh
thick wharf
So, you can now get an atomic clock for your computer for less than $2000. I won...
For clarification, here are two videos talking about the device I'm referring to:
https://youtu.be/JK3eTGkX6qY
https://youtu.be/Gr7sZ4MPMu8
This should help clear up any confusion.
Btw, after watching the top video a few times, I'm pretty sure that the "radioactive" statement in the title is just clickbait.
Completely unrelated subject, does anyone know of any better (faster/more stable) Java runtime environments than the normal one that most people use?
worn ember
if there was "normal" people would use that one
https://www.handracs.info/blog/hotspotopenj9/#:~:text=Hotspot is the Java Virtual,to the cloud native movement.
most common ones are hotspot an openj9
thick wharf
I mean, like... Just because something is better doesn't automatically mean it's gonna be more popular.
worn ember
read that article
https://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/ga1m4f/whats_stopping_openj9_from_overtaking_hotspot/ the top comment lists some good points
Moral of the story: it depends on your application
twin lagoon
@warm anchor 
plucky sparrow
I want to die
turbid oar
Also one thing take me off your bot list. That pings me about the hosting company
Because honestly thats not cool
unkempt drift
What’s the go-to gh action, or app for generating releases automatically based on commit msgs? I found one that kinda does what I want, but it lacks customization, I’m about ready to write my own
thick wharf
Moral of the story: it depends on your application
I wonder which ones are the best for running a large Minecraft server.
I'm assuming that, both stability-wise and security-wise, the best ones will all be pretty similar.
worn ember
Try and see basically. But i doubt you'll get much gain
thick wharf
But performance-wise, as you said... It apparently depends heavily on the application
warm anchor
<@!177150983258767360> <:AYAYA:802527009837678592>
thick wharf
I imagine though... The real fastest would probably be compiling all of the JARs you intend to run directly into C language, and then further compiling it for the specific server hardware that you're using.
Can Java be compiled directly into C?
peak ginkgo
Not in the way you're thinking, but let me blow your mind. https://www.graalvm.org/reference-manual/native-image
golden gust
If there was a magical performance improving JVM which had no caveats, I can imagine it would either have a hefty price tag or people storming towards it
for better or worse, hotspot works pretty damned well and pretty damned hard on performance
tropic flame
I imagine though... The real fastest would probably be compiling all of the JARs...
the JVM already compiles the bytecode to machine code though, right? i don't think ditching java bytecode for C would make a difference
+ hey, you're now breaking the backwards compatibility contract by doing that 
thick wharf
Well, my intention isn't to deliver the compiled executables to other users, so backwards compatibility isn't a concern. This is solely to improve performance for hosting on my own hypothetical server.
tropic flame
oh wait
i thought this was just general JVM talk
ok then nvm sorry
still tho, JARs that contain C code... bytecode is essentially the JVM's assembly code already
thick wharf
Though if I can somehow find out what JVM Hausemaster used to run 2b2t, get in touch with him, and point him in the direction of a faster and more stable JVM, I wouldn't complain.
thick wharf
still tho, JARs that contain C code... bytecode is essentially the JVM's assembl...
The JARs wouldn't contain C code. They'd be turned into C code.
tropic flame
hmm
well I'm not sure how the JVM turns bytecode into machine code but making it turn into C first sounds like adding an extra step only
but idk, i might be wrong
thick wharf
Calling it a JVM was a joke because it wouldn't actually be a JVM.
Java Bytecode to C++
Followed by using a better C++ IDE and compiler with more features and better optimizations...
And then compiling to the target device with device-specific optimizations
For running a very specific application on a very specific server for maximum performance.
Mostly as an experiment more than anything else.
golden gust
That's not how it works
For 1, in C++, you manually manage memory, so the entire flow of Java which relies on a GC wouldn't work unless you basically wrapped everything with ref counters or something dumb
brave radish
Graal's native image tool is cool and all but it's really not a good way to improve server perf
For one, it'd require a good bit of work to make Paper into a native image, and even after that you're unlikely to get much of a performance benefit at all, and more likely to get a performance decrease
plus any plugin dev you report issues to will laugh you off instantly (as they should)
also last I checked the GC options available in CE were limited and not very tunable
ancient bolt
For 1, in C++, you manually manage memory, so the entire flow of Java which reli...
or just have infinite memory
that said, RAII + smart pointers can lead to code which feels very similar to java if done right
remote pelican
paper pls dont patch the new dupe im poor asf
jk pls dont start a war against me on twitter
warm anchor
left swift
solid sapphire
Mornin
thick wharf
For one, it'd require a good bit of work to make Paper into a native image, and ...
Well, it could probably reduce memory overhead, which itself could reduce the chances of a crash.
brave radish
only if you configured your server wrong, in which case you shouldn't be going anywhere near this yet while it's still not finished
coarse urchin
<a:kekwalk:878791624526802945>
Lmfao what the fuck is this
magic river
Well, it could probably reduce memory overhead, which itself could reduce the ch...
native-image would only reduce memory overhead because it made a different tradeoff on the GC algorithm and GC takes more time instead
Because you still have memory all managed the same way so you still need a GC
thick wharf
From what I understand about GC, it would be a lot faster and use a lot less memory if we had an implementation of it on a hardware-level. If only that was actually a thing...
thick wharf
native-image would only reduce memory overhead because it made a different trade...
I don't suppose it would be viable to alternate between two different GC algorithms based on current resource demands?
ancient bolt
the GC algorithm determines how the memory itself is laid out and stored
thick wharf
Drat.
ancient bolt
unless the 2 algorithms use the exact same format, then that could never work
ancient bolt
From what I understand about GC, it would be a lot faster *and* use a lot less m...
and what does this even mean
how would hardware know which memory is no longer accessible?
thick wharf
It would need custom-built memory controller with built-in GC and a programming interface to let software tell the memory controller what's going on. Hence why nobody's actually done it. Custom memory controllers aren't exactly something people make too often.
thick wharf
unless the 2 algorithms use the exact same format, then that could never work
So, it would be more like a single algorithm with adaptive parameters, then. Or, something... (I don't really know. I'm tired.)
ancient bolt
if the software is telling the controller what's going on then it sounds like you have a software GC
thick wharf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_collection_(computer_science)
Maybe you can make more sense of this than I can.
thick wharf
I know
But, like
Maybe you could help explain what I'm reading
I feel like I used to understand it a lot better than I do now.
Somehow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_pointer
I mean, I guess there are also these?
Bleh. Brain not working.
ancient bolt
smart pointers are a system of automatic memory management in a unmanaged language like C++
java doesn't use pointers at all though, that is all implicit in java refernces
thick wharf
Ah, here's some of the stuff I found about hardware
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.204.7355
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/542235/hardware-assisted-garbage-collection
marble lark
For 1, in C++, you manually manage memory, so the entire flow of Java which reli...
I thought C++ had the option to choose between manually managing memory and automatic allocation though?
marble lark
Graal's native image tool is cool and all but it's really not a good way to impr...
I'd imagine using the AOT Loading ability from HotSpot's old project (The same one that added Graal to the JVM that replaced C2 if you enabled it through the JVMCI commands) that got removed in Java 16 might help with this more than turning the entire thing into a native-image if it was still present in Java 16/17
Since it allows you to use statically precompiled Java to bypass the Interpreter entirely while at the same time keeping both C1 and C2 to profile and optimize your code further as HotSpot sees fit
magic river
From what I understand about GC, it would be a lot faster *and* use a lot less m...
The Azul folks started out as a company trying to make server CPUs specifically for the JVM, they learned any attempt at doing GC in hardware was less efficient because it was less flexible
They ended up with a special atomic operation in their CPU to make their pauseless GC work but the rest of the GC was in software and they later figured out a way to accomplish the same thing at the kernel level (pure software) and got an API added to Linux to do it
magic river
Holy cow SD cards need PCIe lanes these days
Modern SD spec is just an external NVMe connector
eSATA for the modern era 😄
magic river
There was no 1.16, only 1.16.1
https://papermc.io/api/docs/swagger-ui/index.html?configUrl=/api/openapi/swagger-config to figure out how I found that
novel horizon
How come they need such specific version
toxic portal
thanks
toxic portal
How come they need such specific version
pablo
untold copper
what the fuck is this supposed to mean
magic river
Divide by zero error, probably
NaN aka Not a Number
Could also mean you put words in a field that wanted numbers, you get NaN when you try to do Number('lolwat') in JS too
thick wharf
They ended up with a special atomic operation in their CPU to make their pausele...
So basically, the correct solution for memory management is...
Just give up.
magic river
Sure
next frost
there's no such thing as "correct solution" in most cases
magic river
Go and C# get away with simpler GC design by making the language produce less garbage
Means you have to think about things more when you're writing code though
next frost
I mean Java is looking into a similar direction with primitive objects
magic river
Yeah, pretty much
magic river
Java was designed before people grasped the idea that memory access is O(sqrt(N)) and in modern computers this is pretty commonly your bottleneck
Although it's not like JS, Python, Ruby, etc don't have a use today and they're no better there
Although they tend to lean heavily on integration with native code to do the things that need to be super fast and are not app-specific
static badge
why is iterating over a linked list
marble lark
Although it's not like JS, Python, Ruby, etc don't have a use today and they're ...
Those are more used for scripting than full blown applications though
marble lark
why is iterating over a linked list
?
marble lark
Go and C# get away with simpler GC design by making the language produce less ga...
How do you do that?
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magic river
Go makes you explicitly put things on the heap but manages the heap for you, C# has classes on the heap and structs on the stack (and getting copied when you pass them around, nothing is free)
marble lark
Oh
magic river
Rust and C and such also let you make this stack vs heap choice although they're much more flexible about it
chrome cosmos
noo i am addicted to seth everman
marble lark
noo i am addicted to seth everman
Who's that?
Wait I can Google it
Fuck me
/google Seth everman
Bruh
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marble lark
Rip thanks
magic river
The .NET JIT and GC have historically been a bit of a joke compared to the HotSpot JVM but that usually didn't matter because C# and CIL had a much better design than Java and JVM bytecode
marble lark
Rust and C and such also let you make this stack vs heap choice although they're...
I never knew that this was a thing for languages compiled directly to hardware instructions too
I thought a stack architecture typically referred to managed languages xd
marble lark
recommended to watch the music stuff
Aight
magic river
Stack machine vs register machine is for VM design, CPUs have stacks and registers
marble lark
Stack machine vs register machine is for VM design, CPUs have stacks and registe...
Oh
I had a misconception that CPUs were 100% register based
thick wharf
The .NET JIT and GC have historically been a bit of a joke compared to the HotSp...
Giving .NET a better GC and a better JIT would probably make it infinitely better. Especially since .NET is gradually being made cross-platform.
magic river
I'm trying to remember if anything in a CPU actually cares about the stack
Pretty much that's just a language/OS thing
marble lark
Giving .NET a better GC and a better JIT would probably make it infinitely bette...
I mean you could ask the folks at OpenJDK to share their breakthroughs with the .NET team
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magic river
Oh, wait, that's the other way around
thick wharf
I mean you could ask the folks at OpenJDK to share their breakthroughs with the ...
.NET is also open-source now.
marble lark
So if it's a language directly compiled to native instructions (Or JIT compiled like C#) it'd be using the hardware stack and heap and performing GC there then?
magic river
It's not like HotSpot is magic, the .NET folks know how it works
marble lark
So if it's a language directly compiled to native instructions (Or JIT compiled ...
Yeah sorry if this sounds dumb I'm just trying to clarify
thick wharf
Sadly, we already have a version of Minecraft ported to .NET; it's called Bedrock Edition.
And look how that turned out
magic river
Bedrock is C++
marble lark
Bedrock isn't written in any .NET language
If it was ported to .NET we'd all be very happy
Cause it wouldn't be a nightmare to make mods for
magic river
Mods are C# though iirc
marble lark
Mods are C# though iirc
Well
The official modding API is JavaScript
Come to think of it every third party launcher for Bedrock uses js for modding
magic river
Oh did they drop the C# thing?
marble lark
I'm not sure if they had C# planned but they're using js for now at least
magic river
I'm talking about official stuff
marble lark
Yeah the official modding API is js too
marble lark
So if it's a language directly compiled to native instructions (Or JIT compiled ...
?
/Google Minecraft bedrock official modding API
Oh you motherfucker
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magic river
I don't know what a hardware heap even means
magic river
But sure, they're using the standard C idea of a stack, dunno if that's an actual CPU thing or not
Well, I suppose C# isn't
Only C and things that are compatible with its ABI like C++ and Rust
Go uses their own stack layout
marble lark
Ah ok
magic river
The CPU has some concept of the stack, you have instructions like push/pop
Yeah, and a dedicated register for the stack pointer iirc
But a language like Go can change that pointer as needed to support their segmented stacks, I think
This is really low level stuff, no one cares about this part 😛
marble lark
Seems like it would be used for keeping track of registers (I dunno if you can store a register in a stack I haven't poked around at such a low level)
magic river
push/pop are for moving register values to/from the stack
marble lark
Come to think of it is that why interpreters have an overhead? Cause from what I remember nearly every modern implementation creates its own stack instead of using the native one (I still have no clue how you'd even be able to do the latter)
magic river
No, that is not why interpreters have overhead 😛
marble lark
push/pop are for moving register values to/from the stack
Close enough Xd
marble lark
No, that is not why interpreters have overhead 😛
Rip
magic river
Interpreters have overhead because doing something is more expensive than doing nothing
marble lark
Oh executing instructions yourself is slower than just feeding them directly into the CPU
Aye makes sense
thick wharf
Bedrock is C++
I'm stupid.
marble lark
Nah you're good
magic river
marble lark
Still not dumber than I am most of the time
Wait that would imply that you're dumb in the first place
Fuck me I'm terrible at this shit
rocky scroll
Anyone knows how can I print RGB text in IJ console? ty
marble lark
<:KEKW:822255070757912626>
That should be my profile lmao
thick wharf
Well, I found the TCP substitute... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QUIC
marble lark
But a language like Go can change that pointer as needed to support their segmen...
That is genuinely insane not gonna lie
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marble lark
Anyone knows how can I print RGB text in IJ console? ty
^^
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marble lark
Sorry I think this is the correct one rip
vernal moth
I think the console doesn't support some of the advanced terminal features paper offers, so paper disables most of it
Maybe you can force enable color via a flag
magic river
Oh, right, I don't know if they support arbitrary RGB colors, probably only 16 or 256 color
marble lark
It's "standard" ANSI escape codes
Still can't remember em to this day xd
magic river
Well, I found the TCP substitute... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QUIC
QUIC is great, can't wait for everything to use it
marble lark
It says a substantial amount of chrome browsers use it
magic river
Can't wait for WebTransport https://github.com/w3c/webtransport/blob/main/explainer.md
marble lark
Maybe it's not too long before everything does
vernal moth
Quic will be forced with http/3 right?
magic river
HTTP on top of QUIC is HTTP/3
vernal moth
Meanwhile I serve all my apps with http1.1
magic river
There is no such thing as HTTP/3 without it
marble lark
But then Mojang has to rewrite their packet system lol
vernal moth
I don't remember the reason, but something in later http versions fucks with our infra, so it's a nono
And http/2 is incompatible in how we terminate SSL
magic river
HTTP/2 was an attempt to more efficiently encode HTTP/1.1 on top of TCP (and some extra stuff no one uses like server push), HTTP/3 is encoding HTTP/1.1 on top of QUIC
HTTP/2 more or less requires ALPN negotiation
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marble lark
Oh
magic river
I don't think you'll be able to terminal TLS somewhere else with QUIC, not sure how that's working
vernal moth
The solution is to skip our infra, am pilot for moving into the cloud with our main website
Like a lighthouse kinda project
magic river
magic river
Safari doesn't support QUIC yet, Chrome and Firefox do though
WebTransport is more or less an API to let you use QUIC from a web page, btw
vernal moth
Safari just has it disabled
marble lark
Safari doesn't support QUIC yet, Chrome and Firefox do though
That like a combination between TCP and UDP?
I can't follow the link from /Google my phone is broken
magic river
Technically it can work on top of at least HTTP/2 as well but then it's not really out of order and still has head of line blocking
But the API works the same way as it would with a perfect but slow connection so that's not considered a compatibility issue
vernal moth
Webtransport is just a more efficient, unordered websocket iirc
magic river
Nah, WebTransport has all the functionality QUIC has
WebSocket is a bidirectional packet/message system, WebTransport has datagrams which are more or less the same thing but also has unidirectional and bidirectional streams
marble lark
😕
magic river
You get to read the data as it comes in instead of waiting for a whole message to arrive before your code is told about it
marble lark
The preview lied that isn't a confused face lmao
magic river
Although datagrams aren't actually a replacement for WebSocket since they're unordered and unreliable, it's basically just UDP but with TLS and congestion control
magic river
Streams are internally consistent but unordered with respect to other streams so don't have head of line blocking if one of them has a dropped packet
But streams are cheap enough you can just make a new one for each message you send and use that as a replacement for WebSocket that works better for basically every use case
vernal moth
its insane to see how big papermc.io got
it would be impossible to run without cloudflare
marble lark
its insane to see how big papermc.io got
It's a popular server build no doubt the site would grow over time
magic river
Anyhow, I think at this point it's safe to say HTTP/2 was a failure
It didn't really have a performance advantage until you rebuilt all of your tooling and systems around it and caused new problems even if you did that
Those new problems are why QUIC exists
vernal moth
I think the vast majority of requests against the website are automated
marble lark
I think the vast majority of requests against the website are automated
People sending bots to paper website?
magic river
HTTP/3 is whatever, QUIC is awesome and I want to use it for everything 😛
vernal moth
People sending bots to paper website?
no, scripts using our api
marble lark
People sending bots to paper website?
That's just lame if so
magic river
Sadly a large number of firewalls drop all UDP traffic
marble lark
HTTP/3 is whatever, QUIC is awesome and I want to use it for everything 😛
QUIC for Minecraft wen
magic river
You'd have to redesign the MC networking logic to deal with packets arriving out of order otherwise there wouldn't be much point to using QUIC for it
marble lark
You'd have to redesign the MC networking logic to deal with packets arriving out...
Yeah I know xd
magic river
Although you could at least stick chat on a separate QUIC stream so dropped chat packets don't cause the rest of the game to stall
marble lark
Well for me my laptop is awful
No kidding I literally tried everything and MC still runs poorly
vernal moth
I wonder which large german (or germany hosted) minecraft host still uses api v1
marble lark
I even tried replacing C2 with Graal and AOTing the Minecraft JAR at one point
Nothing worked
vernal moth
because vast majority of v1 request come from germany
quasi valley
None anymore by Nov 24th 
vernal moth
I blame kennys server
marble lark
You probably never notice when it happens 😛
To be fair it might just be unrelated game lag too though
Maybe I'm seeing a connection when there isn't I dunno
wispy blade
h
novel horizon
maybe it's just me 👀
left swift
No it like that on purpose
left swift
wispy blade
it's cuz ptero sometimes just fucks you over pretty hard
novel horizon
how does it do that
left swift
With the dick wings
left swift
Lubed up with tears of ppl using those auto install scripts and breaking the panel
toxic otter
~~it's cuz ptero sometimes just fucks you over pretty hard~~
When did it not fuck you over. Most barebone panel ever.
novel horizon
yep just use multicraft
void void
ptero > multicraft any day
wispy blade
i dont use ptero cuz i cant afford the overhead of docker
and i need all the ram available
novel horizon
imagine shittalking ptero
magic river
Docker only has disk overhead, more or less
There is no CPU overhead from docker unless you're trying to run a server on macOS or Windows
novel horizon
what else I'll hear today, that sugarcanemc > paper ?
wispy blade
you forget i run my server on a 5400rpm hdd
magic river
It's not IO overhead
It just literally takes more disk space because you store extra copies of the things inside the container
minor flame
excuse me , can i ask what's this error while i'm compiling source code to jar
magic river
Although if you don't have those things installed on the host then you don't have that overhead either
Two OpenJDKs, two libcs, etc
toxic otter
What in the name of... is sugarcanemc? Is that some other fork of a fork?
novel horizon
Yes
minor flame
<#555462289851940864>
oh okay
magic river
Looks like a network error though
novel horizon
I've heard about it some time back
wispy blade
it's the successor to yatopia
magic river
.forks
novel horizon
magic river
Hrm
toxic otter
Vicious circle.
magic river
Has stuff from Lithium gone in to Paper?
golden gust
Some patches a good while back
magic river
Also whatever Patina is you can't Google it
magic river
Dunno if it predates copper being in the game but if not that's a real dumb name
novel horizon
damn tuinity, purpur, airplane, origami
magic river
lol, mspt wasn't precise enough, they added nspt
novel horizon
it's not nano right
limber knotBOT
Should've added a µspt
minor badge
yeah it predates copper
novel horizon
I agree, Geolykt
minor badge
Patina has in the past at least just had stupid and dangerous patches, dunno how it looks today
golden gust
6028 fix
magic river
lol first patches of patina are just "here are all the airplane, purpur, and emc changes" in giant patch files
wispy blade
what was 6028 again
golden gust
Pretty sure that patch is bad and nobody has been able to tell me it's not
Some crash with datapacks or something dumb
void void
peak ginkgo
Origami is for 1.16 btw
wispy blade
datapacks
yeah
golden gust
Think if you remove the leaves from a tree which expects to have leaves it crashes
mossy vessel
The words "performance-oriented" and "optimized" went rack and ruin when every irrelevant fork started to brand themself with em
golden gust
Patching all of the instances of that would be better Vs just not running the population
ancient bolt
The words "performance-oriented" and "optimized" went rack and ruin when every i...
paper started it
boycott paper
mossy vessel
Yet another irrelevant fork!
wispy blade
actually, spigot started it
mossy vessel
Don't even look into em anymore, don't really care what their 10 users are doing
novel horizon
10 users? Sure
novel horizon
57k spigot servers?
peak ginkgo
They've gone up 10 whole servers since the last time you checked @mossy vessel
Servers (Current/Record): 40 / 47
toxic otter
They're coming to get us.
novel horizon
that's for spigot?
novel horizon
oh
mossy vessel
mr jinping likes minecraft too, he came to the conclusion that Sugarcane is the best optimized for his setup.
golden gust
I could easily get MC made illegal in china
magic river
I swear this one used to be in CB https://github.com/PatinaMC/Patina/blob/ver/1.17.1/patches/server/0018-lithium-entity.fast_retrieval.patch
toxic otter
And how would you do that?
golden gust
Brb, making a Winnie the Pooh mod
wispy blade
actually, spigot started it
Spigot: "High Performance Minecraft"
void void
just add a piece of forbidden text to the repo
peak ginkgo
this took me a while to realize what it was even doing.
@void void a certain copy paste about a square
magic river
I think it was a mikeprimm patch
novel horizon
I'll create another fork of Paper 👍
I won't contribute anything, except call it something else, seems about right
void void
how do people come up with these names
novel horizon
am i dumb or
magic river
data structures ftw
novel horizon
wtf is that
novel horizon
magic river
void void
wtf is that
guessing this is chinese mohist?
novel horizon
i mean the patches are weird, not that lol
toxic otter
guessing this is chinese mohist?
Very unsettling
peak ginkgo
CatServer/LoliServer and Mohist are different
novel horizon
I don't understand it, idk about it, but it looks horrible
peak ginkgo
novel horizon
to me at least
wispy blade
like day 2 of me making plugins i was told to not use @SuppressWarnings
peak ginkgo
CatServer is 1.12.2 version Forge+Bukkit+Spigot server
The longest continuous update time, supporting most mods and plugins to run stably
novel horizon
I remember the memes about similar things
magic river
Like most things in programming the rules you get told as a newb are really more like guidelines
golden gust
^
void void
why are they all using windows server
magic river
But until you know better you should treat them as rules
novel horizon
peak ginkgo
Yeah I remembered fine
golden gust
Supress warnings is fine so long as you know when to actually not use it
novel horizon
It kinda reminded me of that image
magic river
I liked the phone number input that was a fast counter and you had to press the button to stop it on your number
Like those arcade games for getting a lot of tickets
golden gust
I generally err towards statement level suppress, but, I mean, one of those fun things
Remind me to go ask mojang to update guava
novel horizon
you think mojang's gonna require to use newer java asap?
wispy blade
ask mojang to update java @ electroniccat
novel horizon
why would he do that he clearly owns the whole company
magic river
The calls are "suspicious" because they violate the generic constraints
novel horizon
secretly
golden gust
guava
gusty lance
you think mojang's gonna require to use newer java asap?
I think they are requiring Java 17 with 1.18 and then stick with it until the next lts is released
magic river
But they have to due to how the Java API they're implementing works
golden gust
And gson too those fuckers
magic river
They do their own checks to make sure the type you gave is okay
wispy blade
remind me what guava does
golden gust
Google's common lib
wispy blade
magic river
I wonder what use guava really is these days
golden gust
That byte streams class is nice
magic river
The collection helpers are in Java, the cache is meh when caffeine exists, I guess TypeToken?
golden gust
Probs some alternative Ive not learnt yet, but, is nice
I still use their cache cos it's there, tbqh
cosmic raft
The collection helpers are in Java, the cache is meh when caffeine exists, I gue...
and for TypeToken, prefer the other library
magic river
iirc I made my own TypeToken last time I wanted something like that
static badge
I swear this one used to be in CB https://github.com/PatinaMC/Patina/blob/ver/1....
this isn't needed, i have a patch for this already; it just avoids the call so it's not shown
static badge
https://github.com/PatinaMC/Patina/blob/ver/1.17.1/patches/server/0015-lithium-H...
both of these are not needed in 1.17
TE unloading marks the reference as invalid, which gets .remove()'d during tick
the hashedlist impl still has that list remove, so all it's done is add the overhead of the map
halcyon pumice
are there 1.8 spigot builds that are being supported by java 16
novel horizon
this is not spigot general
but I'd say no
unless there's new fork or so, then no
halcyon pumice
i meant paper spigot, sorry
novel horizon
still no
halcyon pumice
k