general

[worn ember]

well the one i wanted to try looked ok

[olive marlin]

Get something that works, you can rice it later as you go and get comfortable.

[worn ember]

but poops itself so thats no good

[native wolf]

MX Linux is pretty good, it's a midweight distro based on Debian

[frank otter]

has anyone heard of elementaryos

it's somewhere in the back of my head

[native wolf]

Isn't that the distro with a Mac-like DE?

[frank otter]

oh, and if you want looks good, head over to r/unixporn and steal their dotfiles

[frank otter]

I think so? not sure

[native wolf]

Yep it's that one

[frank otter]

yes it is https://elementary.io/

[native wolf]

The DE is called Pantheon

[floral mesa]

I generally dont recommend going for distros that state they look good, usually those distros pop up and drop off

go with a standard debian install or some of the distros that actually offer a unique setup like elementary, where they built their own DE

[frank otter]

If I was you, I'd try fedora, mint or Ubuntu/pop and rice

[floral mesa]

ive been with fedora for years now, and its great

they dont fuck over their DE packages most of the time compared to ubuntu

plus they are up to date, more akin to arch

[worn ember]

i tried mint with gnome or something and it was kinda whack, ubuntu didn want to install at all, so yeah not had a great experience with linux so far lol

[frank otter]

damn r/unixporn is nice

[worn ember]

i run debian on my server tho and that runs fine

[floral mesa]

your running things in vmware, its dead simple to get a linux distro running in that

[olive marlin]

Using gnome, there's your fault.

[frank otter]

I might switch away from dwm

[floral mesa]

dont know about ubuntu though

it should just install without an issue

[worn ember]

yeah tell that to those distro's how easy it is lol

[floral mesa]

its dead simple...

[frank otter]

yeah, try out distro and get a feel for them, mostly the package manager and configs

has anyone tried nix

[floral mesa]

Ive never had any complaints from fedora's installer unless im doing some exotic raid config

[frank otter]

I've never tried raid bcs I have exactly one hdd

[floral mesa]

@worn ember what errors did you get in ubuntu when you attempted to use it?

[worn ember]

some graphics drivers related stuff

[frank otter]

are you nvidia gpu

[worn ember]

amd

[frank otter]

oh

[floral mesa]

are you passing the gpu through?

[worn ember]

well that was a dual boot, few years ago

[floral mesa]

ah

things have changed

but

im not shocked with ubuntu

somehow, they fucking suck when it comes to driver detection

[frank otter]

Zyphys what de/wm do you use and is it bspwm

[floral mesa]

gnome at the moment

looking into kde

[worn ember]

yeah

oh i managed to get a console open on the whatever distro it was

[frank otter]

is that lts

of you want a gui, try running startx

[floral mesa]

oh, I dont like that kernel setup

[worn ember]

[frank otter]

if that's not LTS that's just weird

maybe pacman -Syu sometime

[floral mesa]

its not a mainline kernel build

[frank otter]

maybe

[floral mesa]

its got extra crap in it

[frank otter]

oh wait it's -zen

doesn't zen have hdd optimizations or something

[floral mesa]

I have no idea to be exact

I usually stick to the fedora mainline kernels

or rhel on servers

[frank otter]

oh and imma head out, @worn ember if you still need help ask around on discord but not rlly on Discord Linux, the unixporn discord isnt a bad place to start

@frank otter try bspwm tomorrow

[worn ember]

yeah i'll get a normal distro set up for now ig

thanks for the help

apparently utorrent is a virus now

its yeeted of my os out of nowhere and chrome doesnt let me download it

[hot hamlet]

I accidentally Control c. Stopped my server. Now it keeps failing to restart saying that the session is already locked

[worn ember]

check if theres still a process running

otherwise a restart cant hurt lol

[native wolf]

It was always a sort of malware

qBitTorrent is a much better alternative

[worn ember]

havent had any issues with it tbh

weird that its flagged by windows and chrome tho

[kind oriole]

bitcomet has magnet link feature :I

[worn ember]

downloading iso's over http isn't so great

[astral thunder]

what happened to this guy?

[kind oriole]

so use xubuntu it doesnt have http option

[worn ember]

how are we supposed to know?

[astral thunder]

well someone has to know

[left swift]

He went to mars

[astral thunder]

ahhhh

ok

thank you

[worn ember]

heh also this explains a lot

[floral mesa]

I never had an issue downloading over http, but yet again, I got good network speeds

that doesnt go out at random

[worn ember]

usually they're throttled tho

[floral mesa]

not for me

though, my ISP is a mirror

so that could be one reason why

[worn ember]

i mean, its not up to your isp if its throttled or not

but whoever distributes it

[floral mesa]

I still dont get throttled

I get 30MB/sec most of the time

[worn ember]

i get lucky if i get 3MB/s

usually its around 1.8/2.2

you get what you pay for 🙂

[floral mesa]

ye

[pulsar wigeon]

steam is nice https://i.imgur.com/4lbZPPB.png

but yea outside of actual cdns most sites have crap bandwidth

[worn ember]

Yeah it shows decompressed stats tho

Like if your download is 3mb compressed and 4mb decompressed it will show 4mb

I have a random Ubuntu bootloader

No clue why that's still there x.x

[lavish willow]

PaperMC does it ping?

So, what is the ping usually?

[modest path]

i need a synonym for "an object with behavior"

please don't say "an object with behavior" you aren't funny

[tribal flicker]

wo

[upper flicker]

uh you cant come up with anything more specific than "object with behavior" ?

because object with behavior is literlaly just "thing that does stuff"

Actor ?

DoerOfThings

[tribal flicker]

eaterofworlds

[modest path]

maybe like "module with behavior"

BehavableModule?

I'm getting in the habit of calling things Bingus until i find a working name for things like this

[worn ember]

I have finally invented time travel

[tropic flame]

BehaviorfulObject

[worn ember]

idk how... but i even managed to break windows lmfao

its saying its 23:39 but its 1:39

[waxen panther]

Did you ever get Linux running

Booting into Linux breaks windows clock

[worn ember]

yes i got elementary running

well thats great

[waxen panther]

well it’s a windows issue mainly

I don’t remember the fix, just google it

[worn ember]

fokin windows

[wraith trail]

your motherboard has a clock, windows expects it to be in the local time, most linux distros expect utc

[worn ember]

does it happen every time?

[wraith trail]

you need to tell your distro that its local time, forgot how

you can tell it not to

[worn ember]

oh

[wraith trail]

some even have a gui option in the installer, iirc mint does

[worn ember]

well i did do an oopsie

i installed it on my hdd

how to yeet it?

[wraith trail]

installed what?

[worn ember]

linooox

i dont wanna go deleting partitions cuz i have no clue which one belongs to who

[wraith trail]

well you gotta figure that out

can't delete something if you don't know where it is

[worn ember]

also who invented partition naming in linux, that shit doesnt help you at all

[wraith trail]

are you in windows or linux now?

[worn ember]

windows

[wraith trail]

I mean wouldn't it tell you what the filesystem was?

that should be pretty obvious

[worn ember]

it told me there was an ubuntu bootloader and if i wanted to install over that one

[waxen panther]

whats wrong withthe partition naming

[worn ember]

so i just pressed yes

its not descriptive at all

its like hdda ssda ssdb

how am i supposed to know whats on either one of those

for all i know i'd be installing over my windows installation

[wraith trail]

well it shouldn't show up that way in windows

also thats a name

you can name it whatever you want

[worn ember]

what happens to the bootloader tho? do i need to fix that too?

[wraith trail]

depends on what you've got it doing now

[worn ember]

well now when i start up it asks me what to boot in

so if theres no more elementary its only gonna be windows right, idk if it like magically vanishes or not

but i doubt it

[floral mesa]

partitioning scheme is largely based off of solaris I believe, the iscsi driver scheme more or less

or at least lettering

no

[wraith trail]

well no, but you've probably got some other bootloader (probably grub) as well as windows's bootloader

[floral mesa]

solaris uses something else

[wraith trail]

unless you somehow overwrote that idk

[worn ember]

now its gnu i think

[wraith trail]

gnus not a bootloader

[worn ember]

[lean kiln]

lol

[worn ember]

well idk it showed gnu on the top

[lean kiln]

maybe because it's GNU/Linux

[wraith trail]

well it's gnu grub

[lean kiln]

oh grub

[wraith trail]

gnu is not a bootloader though

[lean kiln]

i was missing context

[worn ember]

idk man all this stuff is new for me

[floral mesa]

GNU/Linux usually denotes the userland utilities and linux kernel

[worn ember]

so these are what i have, i assme it would be on disk 3?

i see

[floral mesa]

but the gnu project does more than just userland, such as the grub bootloader

[worn ember]

hm interesting

[wraith trail]

I'd assume your 100mb partition on disk 0 is the windows bootloader, 512mb one in disk 3 (G) is grub, 450gb one (disk 3) is your root partition, and 16gb one is swap or something

however i'd assume not a great idea to delete that as you've booted through it

so probably want to boot through windows bootloader -> delete it

[floral mesa]

you can drop disk 3 like its nothing if your running on EFI

[worn ember]

famous last words

[floral mesa]

as long as grub didnt touch disk0, which it shouldnt, you should be fine

[wraith trail]

I don't think windows lets you though

[worn ember]

lets see

[floral mesa]

you can format the disk

maybe not with the gui

the disk setup in windows is very stupid

[worn ember]

oh yeah i cant touch the grub part, i can format the others tho

[floral mesa]

use diskpart

[wraith trail]

I had to do this a while ago and I couldn't get it to do that even that way

[floral mesa]

that is the only utility where you should be able to nuke a disk without any questions as long as its not the windows disk drive

[wraith trail]

had to boot through windows's bootloader and then delete it

but that was a while ago, and I may just be stupid

[worn ember]

so how do i boot through the windows one? enable secure boot?

[floral mesa]

just select windows boot manager in the bios boot menu

not via grub

[worn ember]

oh

[floral mesa]

slam the f11 key or enter key, or esc key... actually just whatever your computer uses to enter the bios or boot menu

[worn ember]

alright thanks

[floral mesa]

one reason why I love uefi, you can tell grub to go fuck itself and play along with the windows boot manager and vise versa

as long as its on different disks

[worn ember]

force booted into the windows boot loader but still cant nuke the partition

i'll try with diskpart

[left swift]

u broke everything now huh ded

[worn ember]

tends to be the trend these days

[left swift]

[worn ember]

idrc as long as i dont accidentally nuke my windows install

[left swift]

[worn ember]

i assume extended is the entire size?

also nice ordering windows

gj

[left swift]

goes by priority

[worn ember]

booo

hmm odd, the bootloader got yeeted once i removed the system partition

but i couldnt touch it myself

[vestal jasper]

....

ded

"the bootloader got yeeted when I removed the bootloader partition"

you realise the situation you're in right? @worn ember

[worn ember]

no?

i still got the windows bootloader

[vestal jasper]

I worded that weirdly

ok

[worn ember]

i hope

[warm anchor]

Ded face

[short yarrow]

Do any of you guys have a check style line limit in your projects? I never really see code bases configure line limits except for maybe javascript projects. I hate working with line limits. I don't know how to break something like method(....) throws Exception1, Exception2 specifically the exceptions part :(. Do I just put Exception2 on the next line? Do I need to line it up?

[tame lantern]

stupid question but does enchanting order matter (using enchanted books)

[lean kiln]

i disable the line length limit

in my editorconfig

and dont check for it in checkstyle

[short yarrow]

We have it at work so I was just curious. I hate the line limit 😦

[worn ember]

just press enter when you reach it

[short yarrow]

yeah that's pretty much what I've been doing and I'm like this just looks weird

[worn ember]

depends on what you're writing ig

intellij has this indicator that suggests how long lines should be and tbh most of the time i dont go over it

streams might be the exception but i think you can nicely indent those like method bodies

[short yarrow]

It usually only looks weird when I have to do it exceptions like this

public void method(....) throws Exception1,
        Exception2 {

}

[worn ember]

yeah thats kinda odd

whats the limit?

[short yarrow]

150

I dont hit it often, but I do hit it when I have parameters with long names or exceptions like that above

[worn ember]

fair

ig you just gotta deal with the edge cases then

thats why i like the suggested thing more than the enforced

cuz in some cases its just not the best solution

[lavish willow]

hi i need help

It has nothing to do with Minecraft.

Someone strange texted me and texted strange noises and texts even though I was not friends with me.

[lean kiln]

wat

[unkempt drift]

.halp

[limber knot]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/555469074080202765/561287494075678721/image0.png

[lavish willow]

and I cant block him.

... --- ... wat?

wat is this

[wild escarp]

are you in witness protection

[lavish willow]

I do not understand.

[wild escarp]

lol

[lavish willow]

started spamming me all the time

myb i can do it.

yay.

I solved

[waxen panther]

you good champ

[lavish willow]

thx

[wild escarp]

wat

[left swift]

broccolai being so supportive

stan broccolai

the new twenty one pilots song is sooo good

[warm anchor]

wow brocco very helpful

Just like his name

[left swift]

where are yours eternity

very weeb / pleading

[warm anchor]

wow I actually dont have pleading emojis... dont worry coming soon!

[left swift]

[vestal jasper]

🥺

[warm anchor]

wow all the cutie in chat??

[vestal jasper]

huh

[warm anchor]

[vestal jasper]

[grand pewter]

[vestal jasper]

pp

[modest path]

🟠

[left swift]

[worn ember]

Omg real pop

[modest path]

real pop

[stiff yarrow]

this is amazing

[modest path]

what's a good oss licence that's general purpose

[waxen panther]

depends

i use gpl3

[true canyon]

GPLv3 ❤️

[peak ginkgo]

This reads SOS in morse code

three short, three long, three short.

[magic river]

MIT/Apache2 is what Rust stuff uses. Apache2 for the patent grant and MIT if you're using GPLv2 or something that isn't compatible with Apache2

But that's basically the modern BSD license scheme, GPL is a different philosophy

[spare venture]

GPL is a recipe for disaster

[waxen panther]

how so

[spare venture]

Because MIT is nicer

[zealous wedge]

wat

[worn ember]

Amazing logic

[magic river]

Apache2 is also more likely to stand up to legal attacks, MIT license is somewhat slapped together

So ideally you'd just use Apache2 but some people want to use GPLv2 still

Also it's not 100% that it's compatible with GPLv3 either but iirc the FSF thinks it is

[zealous wedge]

has it even been tested in court?

[magic river]

No

[zealous wedge]

so it's just one legal theory vs another, neat

though in this case the FSF does matter somewhat since they wrote the license i guess

[worn ember]

As if anyone is gonna take their own pet projects to court lol

Legal or not

[magic river]

Unless you get a real dick for a jury/judge if things are ambiguous but it's clear what you intended that should factor in

[zealous wedge]

you know business with actual money involved use apache 2, right?

[cunning raft]

yeah like this one indie project

you may have heard of it

android

[magic river]

If you don't care about GPL compatibility there is no problem

[worn ember]

Man. That's nowhere near related to this

[zealous wedge]

eh apache v2 is the default license for my projects

though i might use lgpl/gpl more idk

[magic river]

Android inherited the license from, get this, Apache 😄

The harmony project they imported to start their classpath implementation

[spare venture]

License talk

[worn ember]

I'm just saying you can slap whatever license on your project they mean nothing if you don't enforce it with legal action

[spare venture]

Well doesn’t the license give you a little more pull with DMCAs

[cunning raft]

DMCAs are irrelevant

[spare venture]

Like it won’t get reversed as easily if you have it licensed properly

[zealous wedge]

nope

[spare venture]

Oh

[cunning raft]

someone can do a counter takedown no matter what

[zealous wedge]

read the DMCA policy of any site

[worn ember]

Legal stuff is fun...

DMCA?

[spare venture]

That’s why you just close source everything

[worn ember]

Maybe for something that's actually worth money

[zealous wedge]

and never distribute it

[worn ember]

Idc if people "steal" my code or projects. Just means I'm doing something right lol

[spare venture]

Under the bukkit license if I were to make a plugin just for me, no license on it, and give the jar to a friend, would I have to provide the source if they requested because I’m now “distributing” it, even though I haven’t put a license on it?

[cunning raft]

yes

you don't have to put a license on it

[worn ember]

It follows bukkits license

[cunning raft]

it's gpl no matter what you pretend to call it

[spare venture]

Great license GPLv3 is there

[zealous wedge]

well, it's not gpl unless you make it GPL

it's just illegal to link with bukkit unless it's released under a GPLv3 or later compatible license

[cunning raft]

well yeah

[lean kiln]

ChatControl moment

[cunning raft]

wdym

chat control is gpl!

[lean kiln]

kek

[lean kiln]

JRoy/ChatControlRed

[spare venture]

I also have the source saved

[waxen panther]

barty missinformed inc

[cunning raft]

[waxen panther]

[worn ember]

Smh

[waxen panther]

intellij button moment

[spare venture]

What?

[cunning raft]

its a chrome extension

links to toolbox iirc

[worn ember]

Brocc do you use intellij to FaceTime your weeb friends?

[waxen panther]

no

i do that on huniepop

[worn ember]

Tbh seems like a useless feature

So many other platforms already do it properly

[cunning raft]

mfin every platform needs video calling

and a chat app

[worn ember]

Yes

Like how TF you gonna tell your college's to join your meeting on time x

By using another app that already has video/voice lol

[wraith trail]

did they actually add this?!?

[cunning raft]

yes

lmfao

[wraith trail]

wow

[worn ember]

I thought it was an April's fools joke but yeah

Bit too late for that

[wraith trail]

damn thought that code with me thing was just sharing the file like vscode's one

[worn ember]

All other features are nice tho

[waxen panther]

its both

[wraith trail]

I guess it's just embedded jitsi meet so not like they're reinventing the wheel or anything

[waxen panther]

idk i used code with me a couple weeks ago and it was an awful experience

i'd have a similar feeling if i was just screensharing and shouting at the other person what to do

[cunning raft]

i think its electron too

[waxen panther]

gg

[worn ember]

Just share screen tbh. No one codes while in a meeting let alone on the same damn file cx

[wraith trail]

why not just use a browser?

thats so dumb

[cunning raft]

or actually just the video/call thing is electron

[worn ember]

Stupid bloat tbh

[warm anchor]

ded you dont watch anime with friends?

[worn ember]

Intellij is becoming yatopia. Just throw everything together and hope it sticks

[lean kiln]

no

[worn ember]

I don't watch anime at all

[warm anchor]

watched dota anime

why is ded lying

[worn ember]

Wow I watched 1 "anime" in 5 years

[jade flax]

Intellij isn't jetbrains as a whole

[zealous wedge]

oh ded you'd be so much more afraid if you'd ever opened up the intellij community repo in an IDE

[jade flax]

and afaik "code with me" is just a plugin

[zealous wedge]

that thing is a bit of a mess

[cunning raft]

its in the ide itself

[jade flax]

Oh really, didn't know they added it

[wraith trail]

I mean sharing just the file could be nice

if it works like a google doc and not word's implementation of it where you can only edit one page per person

[worn ember]

It's in the 2021.1

[cunning raft]

it is google docs style i think

[worn ember]

You can edit just fine on one page with multiple people

Did it the other week

[waxen panther]

yea but you dont really get completions and auto imports and shit are a gamble

so it'll actually take you 5x longer to do anything

[worn ember]

(for word that is)

[waxen panther]

lol

[wraith trail]

might have changed/I just set it up wrong

last I used it it'd lock pages when one person was typing on it

[worn ember]

Tbh I'd just get frustrated if people touched the file I'm working in

[wraith trail]

I guess live-syncing a whole project might be more useful

so then you could work on different parts with different people but more in real time I guess

[worn ember]

both commit

Ah shit

[jade flax]

I would imagine live syncing a large project would be trivial tho

[lavish willow]

someone tagged me?

[waxen panther]

there's a button top left to see your mentions

top right*

[left swift]

No u

[forest verge]

how to stop mob spawning above nether 128

[celest coyote]

theres prob a plugin for that

[unkempt drift]

k, is there a way to sync at least the appearance settings between the 4 (maybe 5) jetbrains products I use?

like, there's the settings sync but as far as I can tell, that's only between different machines with the same product

[potent warren]

You can sync within the same machine

I do that in 2 different IDEs and it works fine

Settings sync works across multiple products within the same machine

[unkempt drift]

I have never seen it do that... unless I've just never seen it

[potent warren]

You never done it

You basically just point it to the same git repository

[unkempt drift]

oh I don't think I setup the repository, just my jetbrains account

[potent warren]

Uh setting sync requires a repo afaik

They don't store your settings

Wait

Nvm

It works on both

[unkempt drift]

the cross-ide settings sync works when its tied to your jetbrains acct as well?

[potent warren]

Not sure

I only used repo syncing

[unkempt drift]

I suppose I can try the repo syncing as well. I guess I expected them to do the same thing

ok, yeah, that was the issue

now ofc datagrip doesn't have the settings sync via repository

[hazy gulch]

no .

[vernal moth]

Is there even a gui for rhel? Lol

There's nothing really special about rhel

[lean kiln]

hi mini

[vernal moth]

Biggest difference to debian based shit is the different package managers I guess

Rpm/yum vs apt

Hi jmp 0/

Fwiw, we deploy a few thousand docker containers based on RHEL at work, running on a few hundred host machines that run on RHEL

Can recommend

[mighty storm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/450233394396397568/829586833750097930/unknown.png this ever happen to anyone? freaked me the fuck out when i saw it 😂

starting nomnoming my cpu, guess it was some miner

[merry talon]

wat

[vernal moth]

Do you have your docker socket open and unsecured?

Because there are bots that scan for that and upload malicious images to your host that way and run them

Can you get the whole command?

[mighty storm]

I had it but I nuked it, it was In the brief window where I was fiddling with docker and securing it and actually booting the daemon

All firewalled now though

As far as I know the docker daemon wasn't unsecure, thought it was bound to local host but I guess not

Apparently also happens with outdated phpunit but I didn't have that installed

[olive marlin]

@mighty storm depends how you protected your deamon. Though I believe in config you do give the ip to bind to.
But if you set up some proxy running in docker container, it'll still bypass UFW and other firewalls, you need to explicitly configure iptables to block docker container forwarded ports.

[mighty storm]

It's the global firewall that hopefully prevents anyone from touching the daemon to begin with

That wasn't in place prior cus it was a new server

SSH port now changed, requires key login, etc

[vernal moth]

Never open your daemon really

I did it before and secured it with certs, for remote deployment, but nowadays I just do that via ssh, much better

[viscid wedge]

How much experience with Linux do you have? RHEL isn't too different from Fedora or even Debian/Ubuntu in terms of use.

There's an option in the installer to bundle gnome

If you're comfortable enough on the command line, I'd say go without. It's not hard to pick up.

The biggest adjustment will be SELinux, which can be a bit of a bitch to work with at first

[ashen cliff]

Every time I wake up: setenforce 0.

[mellow mulch]

hi

[native wolf]

hi

[untold copper]

Snoopa Fact #216: Saliva has an enzyme called salivary amylase

[feral locust]

SELinux on Android is useful, that is without SELinux any application can set its user id to 0 and then they can do whatever they want

Without asking for any permission

[twin lagoon]

selinux

[magic river]

You don't need SELinux to prevent that

[warm anchor]

[visual egret]

wiki.vg slow for anyone?

[quasi valley]

☠️

[worn ember]

seems to load fine for me

[visual egret]

yeah now its normal

a while a go it took like 10 seconds to load each page

[worn ember]

rip

[warm anchor]

Oskar stop downloading weird stuff onto your PC. That will clog up internet

[visual egret]

shuhs

[feral locust]

So what can i do to prevent it without SELinux

[ashen cliff]

AppArmor still exists AFAIK.

[visual egret]

https://twitter.com/tuxedolabs/status/1380076082485940224 dang

Dennis Gustafsson (@tuxedolabs)

Teardown is getting a photo mode in the next update with improved rendering quality and adjustable DoF. The implementation is simple frame by frame accumulation which converges in about one second.

Likes

1132

Twitter · Apr 8, 2021, 8:32 AM

[magic river]

Basic Linux permissions

SELinux is an additional layer of protection to try to limit what apps can do so a bug in a program running as root isn't exploitable

That's a bit simplistic but close enough

[spare venture]

@ashen cliff @meager tusk

[ashen cliff]

BRO!

YES!

[spare venture]

Balkans are on my server!

[ashen cliff]

Always were.

[spare venture]

Is it time to finally rebrand to BalkanRealms??

[ashen cliff]

Yes.

[meager tusk]

Bro.

Make a Kosovo prefix for extra rage.

Fact!

[golden gust]

errrm

I mean

The lack of custom poses kinda shits on the entire situation

I mean, firstly, you gotta have some square block apartments

Secondly, how the fuck can you have the complete aesthetics of that if you can't have people slav squat outside?!

[warm anchor]

Squat plugin when?

[spare venture]

All Balkan prefixes

Except north Macedonia, call it FYROM prefix

[ashen cliff]

https://posili.me/i/2021-04-08_17-22-46.png

[warm anchor]

Nice

Slowmode gameplay

[spare venture]

Turn based Minecraft

[ashen cliff]

Well.

It took a while, but it did pick up.

https://posili.me/i/2021-04-08_17-34-46.png

[warm anchor]

what yall doing in the server lol

[ashen cliff]

https://posili.me/i/2021-04-08_17-45-51.png

There we go.

Just took it years.

I'm trying to run my cursed modded server on a RPI.

I was considering moving it from the VM to a RPI, to free up some ram on my VM host.

[visual egret]

What kind of rpi?

[spare venture]

Oskar runs his whole life on an RPI

[twin lagoon]

@mossy vessel

[mossy vessel]

👀

[visual egret]

mfw

[wraith oracle]

imagine not running your life on an RPI smh

[true canyon]

Oh no what have I done now

[golden gust]

gud job

You broke it

[void void]

[celest coyote]

time to delete intellij again

[frank otter]

when trying to handle exceptions raises exceptions

[frank otter]

I have thrice failed at installing arch on a rpi3 and have lost hope

[golden gust]

[frank otter]

it's like

should su return me to the systemd init text

[golden gust]

how do you...

wtf did you...

Am not sure you should be touching a computer

[left swift]

No questions cat

[frank otter]

aaaaaarch Linux

or maybe undervoltage

maybe both, maybe I'm missing vendor kernel hacks

there's a whole long list of things that could go wrong

[golden gust]

never really had any issues with arch on the pi

I gotta work out why my screen is being weird, think that the power connector to the display is acting up

maybe I'll power up the soldering iron one day and find out

[frank otter]

technically I've only had the su issue once, because all the other times it hung on systemd initiating something

[golden gust]

only real pi general issues I've had is a toasted micro SD

[frank otter]

maybe I should try the other tarball, but my display power cable was nicked

[golden gust]

But, such is the arts of micro SDs

[frank otter]

I've never had any issues with microsd

oh I remembered the only other time I had issues with arch Linux

my kernel deleted itself

well

the kernel was deleted

[left swift]

[golden gust]

Okay

Yea, you shouldn't be touching a computer

[frank otter]

to top that: it was during online learning

[golden gust]

either shit breaks around you or you're fucking haunted

[nova plume]

Lmao

[left swift]

A walking solar flare

[frank otter]

I mean it's not often shit breaks around me

apart from every so often

oh yeah my last phone couldn't detect its own sensors

no accelerometer for you today

[vernal bone]

Make your own sensors!

[frank otter]

I'm 75% sure the sensors are there, just the software is flipped

[vernal bone]

It just gave you a challenge

[frank otter]

if I could be asked I'd try install lineage or something but I have a new phone, which I've crashed thrice already

knowing that vol down + power holding on a android will power off is useful if power menu doesn't exist

[modest path]

sweet

[frank otter]

didn't know boost messages were a thing

[slim light]

hello

[frank otter]

what's the point of boosting a server if it's top boosted already

[mellow mulch]

It's not top boosted

[frank otter]

didn't know, good choice

[mellow mulch]

hru

[frank otter]

wait

how does it have a vanity link then

[vernal bone]

Paper is a discord partner

Or no, it's verified

[warm anchor]

There no need to boost

Donate to help the project is better but I guess he wants special color

[mellow mulch]

special color

[warm anchor]

Do you feel special now

[mellow mulch]

yes

[frank otter]

eternity was it you that didn't have tartaglia or was it someone else

I want nitro for emotes now

[warm anchor]

Me yes. He’s ass in story

Nitro for emoji is nice

[twin lagoon]

[warm anchor]

You can use paper chan everywhere you go!

[frank otter]

that is pretty neat

[frank otter]

I pulled him by accident

[warm anchor]

Don’t get me wrong. He’s good

[vernal bone]

[warm anchor]

As all 5star in gacha game are. I don’t like him on a personal level

[frank otter]

I mean sure he's good but I have a better hydro, and I was saving pity for next banner

[warm anchor]

Next banner so like December 2021?

[frank otter]

wait no not next tartaglia banner

[mellow mulch]

whats gacha

[frank otter]

the next banner next

[frank otter]

glorified lootboxes

[warm anchor]

Not spending money until actual new content is added to game.

Those events are useless

[frank otter]

isn't the electro land coming soon

[warm anchor]

Rumor said delayed coz you know covid

[frank otter]

that's... interesting

I'd have done the opposite

[warm anchor]

Hello Michael and @vernal bone

[left swift]

Only if they turned off color on booster role

[vernal bone]

Hello EterNity

[slim light]

Surfbretter

[short yarrow]

So I'm having trouble deciding when to use a checked exception and a runtime exception. Is there a good way to tell when to use which? I know in certain scenarios though you can only throw a runtime exception because java won't let you throw a checked exception

[vernal moth]

Checked exceptions were a mistake

[golden gust]

nou

It's complex, I mean, ideally stuff which throws exceptions lets you know

[zealous wedge]

checked exceptions are a useful tool

[golden gust]

Just, it gets to a messy clusterfuck fast

[zealous wedge]

but also a lot of function-based api fucks with checked exceptions

[golden gust]

I think that the general advice is to prefer checked for exceptional stuff, but, if somebody pipes in a bad argument which they should know is bad otherwise, er...

[short yarrow]

Yeah I like that checked exceptions let you know that you might want to handle something or just pass it. The problem I currently have is like a bad or invalid argument. I usually throw a runtime exception for those, like IllegalArgument. But if someone passes in a string to a method which just gets something from a hashmap, but it doesn't exist in the hashmap. Should that be a runtime exception?

[jade flax]

why not have it return a optional

and if it doesn't exist, return an empty optional

[upper flicker]

well as far as java is concerned that would return null

[untold copper]

HELLO

[upper flicker]

if you want a system in which null is forbidden, youre either at exceptions or optionals

[left swift]

HELLU

[upper flicker]

the context of whether that exception should be checked or runtime really depends on how important it is that it be handled imo

[untold copper]

HOW IS THE YOU

[upper flicker]

no one really wants a stack of checked exceptions to go through

[short yarrow]

public String getString(String key) {
    return getFromMap(key).orElseThrow(...);
}

I have like a wrapper method for the optional

[left swift]

I spent $120 on twenty one pilots merch I am good very nice

[upper flicker]

that's a really simple case that doesnt actually seem to do much

I'd just make that return null and annotate it

[untold copper]

VERY COOL

[upper flicker]

then again I think the optional pattern is garbage

[left swift]

How is the pi

[upper flicker]

so a touch biased

[untold copper]

Thats oskar lol

not me

[left swift]

[untold copper]

I have a pi

but I dont use it for dumb reasons

I dont use it at all

[left swift]

Did ded get his dual boot working or did he end up deleting windows by accident

[untold copper]

dunno

@worn ember CMERE

[worn ember]

yes

[untold copper]

did you get your dual boot working

[worn ember]

i got it workign and then deleted it

[left swift]

What distro finally let you install

[untold copper]

smh

lol

[upper flicker]

if it were a case in which it had to get something from a map and then perform some operation on it, that might make more sense to throw

or return some sort of result type object

[left swift]

[upper flicker]

but for a very simple wrapper like that, I wouldnt bother

[untold copper]

ooh quick question, if I had to use linux, what linux should I use?

[worn ember]

i went with elementary

[untold copper]

I want for like normal usage

ubuntu?

[left swift]

Ubuntu

[worn ember]

i installed it on my hdd tho hence why i uninstalled

[golden gust]

ubuntu is nice but it's heavily gonna boil down to what DE you want

[worn ember]

ubuntu never worked for me

[untold copper]

wuts DE 👀

[golden gust]

Like, debian based is pretty solid so long as you go for something people care about

[untold copper]

developer environment?

[golden gust]

ubuntu is in this weird legality place

[upper flicker]

desktop environment

[golden gust]

mint tends to have a better chance of working but also bundles some "gray" stuff last I knew

[worn ember]

yeah i like debian, might try sme arch distro but fuck installing eerything myself

[untold copper]

oh

there are different desktop environments??

[upper flicker]

if you have to concern yourself with the legality of shit that gets bundled along in your distro, youre in a bad place anyway

[golden gust]

I think it was mint which was bundling proprietary modules by default

[upper flicker]

yes snoopa

[worn ember]

yeah and they're all pretty ugly

[untold copper]

like

how

[golden gust]

it's linux

[worn ember]

cuz thats just how it works

[golden gust]

you don't even need a DE

[upper flicker]

the desktop front end and apps that run on it aren't tightly coupled to the kernel or the supporting components that make up the system

[golden gust]

Just, there are many environements which bundle different window managers, etc^^

[upper flicker]

very little is actually tightly coupled anymore, though systemd is scaring some people

[golden gust]

There are generally some horrors with the entire environment, e.g. QT

But, generally, you can mix and match whatever you want

[upper flicker]

so you can swap out arbitrary components

[untold copper]

wow linux sounds like its held together with duct tape

[golden gust]

It kinda is

[worn ember]

i find you being able to literally pick everything really annoying lol, cuz you have no clue what to go for

[untold copper]

time to keep using windows I guess

[upper flicker]

it was specifically built this way

[golden gust]

But, that's part of why it's as customisable as it is

[upper flicker]

some of it is held together with duct tape

but a lot of it is very intentional

[untold copper]

not like its not held together with duct tape, it just hides it better

[upper flicker]

and follows specifications

[untold copper]

[golden gust]

Like, take x11, the traditional screen server

[untold copper]

dats true

[golden gust]

Now, there are some headaches there because many things are built against x11, but, xorg is such a standardised things that even modern screen servers are able to provide some level of magical support for apps relying on it

[untold copper]

I dont think I'll use linux anyways, its not like i do much development stuff

[worn ember]

i wanna tinker more with linux distro's but i have a meeting in 5

[untold copper]

ded what job do you even do

[worn ember]

.NET developer

[untold copper]

oh

ok

whatever that is

[twin lagoon]

.NET

[worn ember]

C#

[upper flicker]

hopefully modern .NET

[untold copper]

NET Software Developer is a software developer who specialises in building software for Microsoft's Windows platform. They work with programming languages compatible with Microsoft's . NET framework, including VB.NET, C# (C sharp) and F# (F sharp).

[worn ember]

.NET 5 yeah

[upper flicker]

thats not too bad

[untold copper]

agreed

[worn ember]

"not too bad" its literally latest lol

[upper flicker]

not the version

[untold copper]

job sounds interesting

[worn ember]

oh

[golden gust]

C# in general, eeeeeh...

[upper flicker]

the platform

[left swift]

.fart developer

[worn ember]

mostly ASP tbh

[short yarrow]

I always thought C# was only for creating software on windows. Didn't know .NET supports multiple platforms now

[worn ember]

we're moving from mvc to blazor

so thats fun

[golden gust]

I mean, if you're just doing windows dev stuff C# is really nice given the whole winforms existence or whatever they're tryna push people towards now

[left swift]

Tf

What was that

[slim light]

?

[untold copper]

lol

wrong place copy paste

[worn ember]

blazor is literally "yeet everything to the client and let them compile and run everything"

[untold copper]

so you make windows applications

ok

[worn ember]

no

[frank otter]

I didn't know dotnet wasn't just windows

[worn ember]

ASP is website shit

[upper flicker]

historically it wasnt

[golden gust]

it's not just windows

Like, you got .net core

[frank otter]

I'm not so sure about c# syntax and stuff but leik sure whatever

[golden gust]

But, the argument for using it outside of windows is pretty weak, imho

[worn ember]

theres like 20 different things now

its really confusing to keep track of what does what

[golden gust]

like, afaik there is still no cross platform UI for example

[frank otter]

what si the argument for using it outside windows

[golden gust]

or, well, sane cross platform UI

[worn ember]

Xamarin is cross platform

[frank otter]

does glfw count

[upper flicker]

there are people who use .net core on the server

[frank otter]

does QT run on windows?

[upper flicker]

and by on the server I mean on linux

[golden gust]

I mean

[upper flicker]

but thats still pretty focused

[golden gust]

are you planning to make your desktop app rely on opengl?

[worn ember]

there's mono, but uh yeah

[upper flicker]

MS certainly doing better making .net crossplatform than apple did with swift

but thats a low bar

[golden gust]

mono last I knew was generally a fucking ballache outside of windows

[frank otter]

gpu-accelerated word processor, why not

[zealous wedge]

qt is the only real option for cross-platform UI

[short yarrow]

So if you're running a massive minecraft server, how would you even go about finding if an exception was thrown from a plugin? Don't think servers have alarming or monitoring infrastructure. At work we check have something scan our logs and if an error is logged we get notified

[frank otter]

electron, but that's a mess

[worn ember]

anyway, meeting, bbl

[golden gust]

there are ways to get exception logging

paper even has events

but, like, sometimes you get plugin does A causes B to throw

[upper flicker]

I'd bet paper's plugin exception event misses even API stuff

[frank otter]

This is just my opinion, but wouldn't it make sense that whenever an exception is thrown or raised in the global and then you could just bind to the event

[upper flicker]

and then you have all the cases where plugins hook into NMS and fuck with it

and I know the serverexceptionevent generally is missing stuff

[golden gust]

e.g. setting rando stuff to null or fucking with stacks during interaction events, etc

[frank otter]

why the hell would you mess with the stack

[golden gust]

https://github.com/qmlnet/qmlnet

[frank otter]

wait is this stack as in mess of bytes pointed by ESP

[short yarrow]

Does anyone know if log4j or any logging framework log runtime exceptions as error? I felt like I've seen a runtime exception logged as error before

[frank otter]

this looks cool, but many things are using electron

also, iirc react native had Windows and Linux bindings

Linux as in x11

[worn ember]

electron is such a mess tho

[frank otter]

mess kinda, works yes, easy yes, efficient hell no

it's just packages chromium

hello world is literally 600mb

[golden gust]

Well, yea, but, it works

Like, isn't 8G of ram basically standard these days?

[worn ember]

still

doesnt mean it should be the standard

[frank otter]

I suppose, but then when you have discord and vs code and three chrome tabs it's a strain

[worn ember]

using a lot of ram vs wasting a lot of ram

[golden gust]

Well, yea, i agree

but, for devs, it beats a windows app, a linux app, etc

[frank otter]

like ideally I'd like to be able to have a music player (electron), vs code (electron), a browser and maybe minecraft open

for devs yes it does

Where's react native windows bindings

[modest path]

anyone know a good usb-c storage drive

do those even exist?

[frank otter]

oh it's macos too https://microsoft.github.io/react-native-windows/

[golden gust]

I don't think that there is a super sane cross platform language with a competant UI library which is capable of producing modern fancy designs

[frank otter]

thus electron exists

[wraith oracle]

why electron

why javascript

[frank otter]

it's the epitome of Cross-platform

everything has some browser

[wraith oracle]

that question will always haunt me in my worst nightmares

[golden gust]

Because frontend devs are generally familiar with javascript

[frank otter]

in these days, so are backend devs

[golden gust]

us backenders are generally on with languages like java which has its own caveats

Like, I mean, node vs java for a backend, am going for java

[limber knot]

i would if i knew java, i think

rust and go aren't incompetent backend langs either

[golden gust]

You'd have to be paying me a good lot to work with go

rust, I kinda wanna learn but not a high priority with my 10/10 health

[limber knot]

just a question: if you could create your own language, what would be different about it

and yes i agree with the go statement

[golden gust]

I think that's a complex thing

Because, many of the modern languages are good

Like, I love kotlin and java

Kotlin needs better generics, imho

[wraith oracle]

I mean, it depends on the answer you're looking for

[golden gust]

they are such a pita to work with

and java needs to move forward, but, there are many things which ideally would be done but can't because of backwards compat, etc

[limber knot]

i'm just mentally wondering about messing with parsers and LLVm

and wondering what i should implement

[wraith oracle]

if you're looking for a dumb answer then I'd probably rather languages use actual language that resemble english and not just keywords for it

[limber knot]

have you heard of that lolcat language

wait does that even resemble english

[golden gust]

I like shorter keywords

[limber knot]

https://lolcode.org it's worse than i thought of it btw

[golden gust]

I mean, defo not to cryptic degrees

But, I think that the power of a language is in how easy it is to write and maintain

[vagrant marlin]

[wraith oracle]

I do believe the same, but it is a steep learning curve

there aren't many languages which can do a lot, efficiently and still be user-friendly

you coul say, python

but I said efficiently

[golden gust]

I don't think that python really seems maintainable, tbqh

[limber knot]

python is beautiful in simplicity

well

simplicity of syntax and a neat learning curve

[visual egret]

python- works

[limber knot]

does it work well though

[jade flax]

It works well enough to teach younger folks to write code

imo

[wraith oracle]

that's kinda the issue

[visual egret]

all of my websites are written in python gg ez

[golden gust]

functional languages generally do

[jade flax]

beyond that.... find a new lang

[limber knot]

also, do you prefer function or oop

*functional

[golden gust]

But, they often rip out a lot of the core functionalities of languages which many of us fall to have a love/hate relationship with

[jade flax]

oop personally

[visual egret]

i love oop

[golden gust]

take PHp for example

It's a functional OOP language

[upper flicker]

cat breaking out the php examples

oh boy

puts on seatbelt

[jade flax]

oh no

[golden gust]

You can use PHP without using a single object

[limber knot]

i have no understanding of php

[golden gust]

that makes it a looot easier to learn how to use PHP outside of the rest of it's bastardisations

[wraith oracle]

all I know about PHP is that it sucked and after version 7 or so it got tolerable

[golden gust]

But, when you come to actually use PHP in the real world, if you don't know how to work with the OOP aspects, you're gonna be yeeted out the window

It really boils down to how you write the code

[limber knot]

is php what you would call opinionated

[wraith oracle]

I think the word you're looking for is multi-paradigm

[limber knot]

i feel fancy using this fancy tech vocabulary

oh that makes sense

[golden gust]

I think that the best way to describe PHP is that it's what happens if you let some basement dwellers make a scripting language and collaborating with other basement dwellers to create a language which powers a good % of the web

There is a lot of nicety in how easy it can be to work with, but, there is practically 0 standardisation on stuff until the past 5-10 years on tryna get stuff like consistent method names

Now they're in this weird are where they're tryna fix that but wanna retain backwards compat, so, you got the ugly and the standardised method names potentially in one codebase

[limber knot]

brb

[golden gust]

the language is a beautiful clusterfuck

I love PHP but I can easily understand why people fucking hate it

[wraith oracle]

it's relatively new so, can't really say anything about it

it's mostly people's fault for trying to use a language that is yet not mature enough for their intentions

[golden gust]

what lang?

[wraith oracle]

php

[golden gust]

PHP is oooold af

[visual egret]

i would like to bring your attention to something funny i found

[golden gust]

just, afaik, there is no real team which aims to set feature goals and such

so, it's just a clusterfuck of people with different goals contributing to a single project

[wraith oracle]

it being old doesn't mean it is mature though

a language can hoop between stuff until it finds its sweet spot and then start building up from there, standardizing the features and the such

it did take PHP a good while but it seems to have gotten better in the recent years

[vernal moth]

I thought we were stating obvious things

[visual egret]

we were

[wraith oracle]

water isn't wet, bite me

[left swift]

Water is liquid

[finite trench]

Don't suppose anyone knows if SYS (OVH) supports GRE tunneling from external providers? Cant seem to get it running and there seems to be no clear answer anywhere.

[golden gust]

if you're using their VPSes, no idea

if you're using a dedi, they can't control that

It's a network connection like any other

[finite trench]

Using a dedi

Damn

Surely I can atleast tunnel the connection as a sort of proxy, just need to hide main server ip.

[slim light]

Do i have a memory leak?

damn

[golden gust]

you can't tell from just that

[slim light]

Literally

[quasi valley]

1gig of memory is a bit slim

[slim light]

I don't havee anything in my hub

[golden gust]

but, 1G of ram for modern MC is not recommended at all

it's java

[slim light]

I'm trying to paste a hub schematic

[warm anchor]

Literally the most useless info

[slim light]

on a empty world

[golden gust]

it cleans up when the heap is full

[warm anchor]

^^^

[slim light]

it keeps decreasing

now 17

[warm anchor]

Wait til you see it cleaned

[slim light]

now it's on 31

[golden gust]

memory leak implies that memory ain't being freed when it should be

[cunning raft]

goto #paper-help send timings

[golden gust]

when you're running a small heap, it's gonna toss crap around fast so you're gonna be running low on "free" memory and collecting often

sub 2G these days is just asking for issues

[slim light]

wat can i do

[golden gust]

give it more ram

[slim light]

bungee needs 1gb right

and the hub 2gb

[golden gust]

modern MC uses more memory than before, there is no real way around that

that server has 1G of ram allocated

bungee works fine on like 512M, even 256M, as a good chunk of what it deals with is off heap

[left swift]

[untold copper]

feeling smart today, aren't we :P

[left swift]

I'm always were

[olive marlin]

Does anyone know where geyser floodgate API is stored? I can't find it anywhere...

Ehh, I'll just compile it.

Why does maven have to be so slow

[golden gust]

I mean

it's maven

[limber knot]

Does maven support Java 16 or did it break like gradle did?

[wild escarp]

https://repo.opencollab.dev/maven-snapshots && https://repo.opencollab.dev/maven-releases

[zealous wedge]

i've seen some people have issues with something in maven using old Guice, geo

[olive marlin]

Too late, I've compiled it. Just need to go scream at TCPShield guys that their plugin doesn't compile.

[limber knot]

Good to know

[void void]

Hey, I'm looking for a way to get a instance of net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R3.World, can you help me please ?

[vernal moth]

GetHandle on craftworld

[golden gust]

CraftWorld#getHandle or something like that

[vernal moth]

But generally, just use the api please :/

[void void]

And the CraftWorld I must cast World to CraftWorld before ?

[vernal moth]

Yes

[void void]

Thank 😉

[vernal bone]

What do you guys think about "web bloat"? I recently "experienced" it while looking for a linux command regarding an application. The site literally took 2 mins to load, and 10MB atleast...And the info I was looking for was at the bottom

[golden gust]

I mean, I generally have a connection fast enough that a huge page on its own is generally not an issue

But, I mean, it is a general issue that site owners generally don't care about stuff like that

[vernal moth]

The problem isn't the size

But the cpu power needed to parse the js

[golden gust]

often times it's the # of resources on the page and ^

many sites pull json and then the client has to descramble it

[vernal moth]

Especially on shit Tier Browsers

[golden gust]

many have lots of images of where concurrency is often limited

[vernal moth]

I think we have the bundle sizes under control for hangar ^^

That's important because it's an absolutely massive application

[golden gust]

node based stuff defo presents a fun modern issue

you can have apps which are small in code but when you have all your modules in play is fucking crazy