But, maven smells more
#general
golden gust
woven otter
forward?
true canyon
Maven at least works :D
spare venture
How dare you insult my lord and savior kotlin
zealous wedge
the real solution is ant+ivy
intellij doesn't even properly support java 16 yet :p
woven otter
media key
woven otter
didnt ask
left swift
Alt shift f4
woven otter
there is next track key ded
woven otter
left swift
potent fossil
there are times i really enjoy paper because we at least know how to troll trolls right back. god. just left the stupid fucking uwu server because they're STILL (HOURS LATER), community and staff, feeding the troll
spare venture
where
magic river
iirc I used an on screen keyboard when I needed to program a key to something that doesn't exist on my real one
woven otter
cringe
left swift
Who knew people who crave attention and validation from others cant stop themselves from feeding trolls
potent fossil
dude keeps ban evading and they ping him trying to "discuss", like, IGNORE THE TROLL
It is that fucking easy
spare venture
Why were you talking in an emoji server 
woven otter
ye it's like children in africa either you try to feed them or ignore them
spare venture
Wat
potent fossil
cause it got spammed earlier and i was just watching the drama but the staff keep pinging @ everyone and @ here to "update" the "discussion" with the troll
worn ember
lol
spare venture
Oh
worn ember
you know this is a thing right?
potent fossil
yeah, but the emojis aren't worth being in the same server, even if i turn off the notifications
spare venture
Just join good discords — like mine!
potent fossil
i left as a matter of principle
spare venture
left swift
Staff on big discords are funny, they're usually all just people who go to as many servers as possible to collect staff ranks for clout
magic river
I've turned off here and everyone on a couple servers I'm on
One sends out an everyone message once or twice a week about a patreon thing
left swift
looks around quickly
potent fossil
i had the pings off, just didn't want to be in a server like that whatsoever, even if i did like the emojis
spare venture
People buy and sell those emoji and large discords constantly
woven otter
what did you expect when you joined fucking uwu server
worn ember
love how the audio outputs still show up in my playback devices even if they're disabled...
potent fossil
uwu emojis and quiet
worn ember
just windows things
warm anchor
there are times i really enjoy paper because we at least know how to troll troll...
We are the best dont you think? 
potent fossil
at least @warm anchor has a well modded server with good emojis
left swift
Simple just be in eternitys emoji server it's perfectly safe there
woven otter
eternitiy is also a weeb tho
void void
I had a dream that the paper server icon changed to paper-chan
spare venture
I have good emojis too
left swift
And you can be an otaku free without judgement
potent fossil
left swift
spare venture
golden gust
fuckin' weebs
void void
she.. she.. she's real? D:
spare venture
left swift
Amogus
potent fossil
you're god damn right
golden gust
wait
spare venture
golden gust
somebody created pictures from the shared mass disillusion we all had?
spare venture
void void
has anyone watched kakegurui
potent fossil
void void
Wtf
potent fossil
that's right cat, i have the proof
spare venture
No I’m not a weeb
golden gust
fuck you anyways
warm anchor
spare venture
Brocc ur just jealous
waxen panther
lowercase b
warm anchor
if I do say so myself @potent fossil
left swift
<:patrick:825572311876763678>
What the fuck
waxen panther
no idea who "Brocc" is
spare venture
What the fuck
left swift
spare venture
golden gust
ew
spare venture
left swift
Cat cant find where the light switch on the wall is
woven otter
weebs belong in the trash
spare venture
woven otter
wtf that's illegal emoji
left swift
woven otter
who's your dealer
spare venture
deep juniper
Hello, my children!
woven otter
please no
spare venture
Houston sucks
limber knotBOT
gets some friends together and shivs Paper-chan a few times.
spare venture
Someone’s alt
feral locust
*gets some friends together and shivs Paper-chan a few times.*
ohhhhh
worn ember
whats the other one?
feral locust
potent fossil
lart
worn ember
close
potent fossil
Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool
worn ember
shouldve just replaced the l with an r
potent fossil
?
worn ember
shh its ok
potent fossil
nah we ain't ableist here but you can do that elsewhere if you like 
worn ember
uh ok
potent fossil
he said replace the L in lart with R. I'm sure you can put 2 and 2 together, party.
woven otter
dont try to understand that party
left swift
We all know ded is comedian he should get netflix special
potent fossil
come on mr chemical engineer, get those gears a turnin
left swift
Like kevin heart
woven otter
ded is special. that's why we like him
potent fossil
old internet slang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luser
left swift
What
spare venture
Oh, never heard that before
worn ember
boomer terms
spare venture
and I’m not a chemical engineer 😔, only have a degree in it. I’m a project engineer
woven otter
imagine being a boomer in current year
potent fossil
i'd say that's a chemical engineer
left swift
Imagine being in current year
potent fossil
spare venture
Maybe
woven otter
Imagine being in current year
true tbh
left swift
I'm in 2016 yall
woven otter
illegal
worn ember
good, stay there
warm anchor
Ded can you go back too? 
woven otter
2016 sucked but not as much
spare venture
It all started when harambe died
worn ember
i wouldnt mind
warm anchor
I drove past the Cincinnati zoo a couple days ago
oh I thought you were gonna pay a visit to ded
nvm!
woven otter
actually no 2016 is bad bring back 2017
worn ember
you should go protest at the capitol for it barty
spare venture
Is he in the Cincinnati zoo
warm anchor
idk he could. ded is protected species
spare venture
you should go protest at the capitol for it barty
My friend got arrested by the FBI for it
worn ember
lmao
warm anchor
IMAGINE
worn ember
idk he could. ded is protected species
one of a kind
warm anchor
Hes gonna ge his live fucked party
spare venture
Well, not a friend, an acquaintance
warm anchor
no one wanna hire criminal
potent fossil
i still cannot believe that happened
spare venture
He deserves it he’s been posting some fucked up stuff on Facebook
warm anchor
Any place that run background check will deny the person
spare venture
Dude has been really radicalized since high school
potent fossil
maybe she is the real paperchan after all
spare venture
He became an anti vaxxer huge pro trump guy who thought that the election was stolen so he rioted at the caption and broke into the capitol building
potent fossil
so forgiving of a murderous bot
spare venture
He was fine in high school, I played soccer with him
deep juniper
I was here before the bot was, or before the bot had that name 👀
potent fossil
yeah, sick stuff
spare venture
It’s really easy for people to get radicalized
potent fossil
that bot was here before you, its name is actually scissors, but someone told me to name it paperchan and thus...
it hath been done
worn ember
He became an anti vaxxer huge pro trump guy who thought that the election was st...
maybe he'll get kidnapped by flat earthers who invented space travel
deep juniper
that bot was here before you, its name is actually scissors, but someone told me...
hence the "or"
👀
potent fossil
yes, i was just clarifying
spare venture
He basically ruined his life. No job will ever hire him
worn ember
well...
potent fossil
and nobody should, he doesn't deserve any job when he doesn't respect the country that would provide him with one
worn ember
there's always one last job he could do
potent fossil
he dug that hole himself, no sympathy whatsoever
spare venture
Well, yeah
magic river
Eh, that attitude is why our recidivism rates are so high
potent fossil
it is a sad story, but that's it
spare venture
Agreed amaranth
magic river
It's the same attitude just at a different group than normal 😛
spare venture
I blame the people who radicalized him, but he is also of course at fault
There was some guy who ran a super alt right site that got in trouble in my city recently. Daily stormer or something
potent fossil
i will never be apologetic about "that attitude" toward "those people". but please do not think that I feel that way about everybody. this is an entirely different tier lmfao
magic river
Any job that makes them the public face of your company or involves sensitive information they should at least temporarily be disqualified from but what they did shouldn't stop them from working as a welder or something
worn ember
No one:
barty: so lets start a keyboard war
spare venture
Heh
worn ember
simple: so anyway, i started blasting
left swift
Ded is what is in the harambe exhibit now
warm anchor
He basically ruined his life. No job will ever hire him
farmhand, construction, and fastfood will
potent fossil
storming the capitol should call for deportation with a clause stating they may never return, ever.
spare venture
Yeah
worn ember
im the master baiter
potent fossil
they can go somewhere else and get a job
spare venture
I meant a good job
He can get a good trade job tho
But I meant more of a cushy job
worn ember
where you gonna drop them off simple?
potent fossil
and my opinion won't change on that 
worn ember
the middle of the ocean?
spare venture
Completely shot himself in the foot there
magic river
I think revoking citizenship is against various international laws
warm anchor
If a serius crime is commited against the country though
warm anchor
like terrorist
worn ember
mm but if someone uses the r word its reeeee
spare venture
Yeah those type of people have been handled with kids gloves for too long
Oh well this is #politics
worn ember
i got key presses to simulate anyway
spare venture
What
left swift
Music skipper
twin lagoon
woven otter
legalize comedy
waxen panther
illegalize duck
woven otter
can we turn you into smoothie
spare venture
veggie smoothie? Gross
woven otter
yeah you could just pour it down the drain
brave radish
anyone use Chrome / a browser not too far from Chromium in UI on macOS that knows if you can stop it from shortening the window when you put the cursor at the top of it in fullscreen?
potent fossil
"shortening the window"?
olive marlin
@twin lagoon I need a Grafana master help 🥺 
brave radish
when you put your mouse at the top of the screen and the toolbar appears (as it would with any fullscreen app) Chrome and its family shorten everything (like the tabs move downwards) and the actual height of the website gets smaller, vs in other browsers and every other app where the toolbar just covers some of the window
olive marlin
I have a gauge and I can't figure out, how to make MAX value be based on a query from Prometheus - can only either hardcode the max or leave it blank, where it guesses max based on the highest value it scraped yet.
brave radish
I tried switching to Brave and it's like the first thing I noticed; so annoying
potent fossil
i never use fullscreen mode ig so never noticed
i just snap windows to the top and dock autohides, which is big enough for me, no annoyance
brave radish
I don't actually use it for the screen space; just so I can switch between windows easily
brave radish
ctrl+arrow keys and, if you have a nice trackpad (I'm on a MacBook) swiping with three fingers left and right switches between fullscreen windows
potent fossil
ah didnt know that gesture
brave radish
makes it really nice to have like an IDE open with javadocs to the left and Minecraft to the right
and a terminal somewhere, whatever
https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/336983/chrome-69-on-mac-fullscreen-toolbar-pushes-page-content-down :( so you can't turn it off
golden gust
at least in vivaldi, the toolbox will drop, but, the content doesn't move
brave radish
well Chrome does it too; Vivaldi changed a lot of the appearance/UI stuff
potent fossil
i legitimately cannot stand vivaldi's UI
there's no one specific thing, just...all of it irks me
reminds me of opera from like 8 years ago
brave radish
that was the point of the browser, according to the Wikipedia summary I just read when cat mentioned it (not irking you, being like old Opera lol)
potent fossil
well they certainly achieved that goal
brave radish
I'm not sure why everyone is raving about Brave's speed; seems much slower than FF to me
and FF isn't exactly the pinnacle of beauty and speed...
golden gust
well, the toolbar drops so you can actually mess with it, the content stays the same though, so 🤷♂️
brave radish
Brave doesn't even just scroll it down, it actually decreases the height of the page; howbigismybrowser.com shows it go from 793 to 749
golden gust
brave radish
which makes it even more noticeable with very responsive pages
golden gust
brave radish
well good for you, Vivaldi
golden gust
😄
huggles vivaldi
the UI is like, I mean, it's not the prettiest, but, I kinda like how minimal it is
brave radish
also, cat, what's up with the upper right of your screen; what app is that?
golden gust
Yea, there is an open source alternative somewhere but last I recalled it seemed pretty shoddy
brave radish
thank you, alternativeto.net, for telling me to use activity monitor instead...
golden gust
lol
ancient bolt
technically true
brave radish
not even a good alternative: Activity Monitor uses like 40% CPU a lot of the time; I use htop now
magic river
Wow they weren't kidding, the new Space Jam is just Ready Player One: NBA Jam Edition
spare venture
I just saw the commercial
magic river
Were you watching Baylor kick some butt too?
spare venture
Sadly
I would’ve won my bracket pool if they lost
Now I need Gonzaga to win it all
magic river
I dunno, UCLA is the surprise upset team this year
spare venture
Houston got their asses beat so badly. They looked way better in the second half, but not good enough
magic river
They held steady in the second half but that wasn't enough
pulsar wigeon
that site kinda gave up on me.. https://i.imgur.com/dK8fizn.png
doesn't seem to like resizing
oh, it's implemented in css. only the dims in the middle are js
lofty breach
Could someone recommend me an economy plugin that works for network with mysql and with vault?
brave radish
I'm not sure why everyone is raving about Brave's speed; seems much slower than ...
update: FF is the higher one here
brave radish
Could someone recommend me an economy plugin that works for network with mysql a...
that would be a question for #paper-help
balmy gate
I'm not sure why everyone is raving about Brave's speed; seems much slower than ...
brave is such a p.o.s
just install a adblocker on firefox
magic river
update: FF is the higher one here
I get 174 with Firefox 88b6 and 374 with Edge 89 on Windows 10 at 4K
Oh, 120 Hz too, if that matters
I'm using WebRender
balmy gate
I get 174 with Firefox 88b6 and 374 with Edge 89 on Windows 10 at 4K
how did you manage that
magic river
I'm guessing the 4K part
balmy gate
I have never gotten a browser to outperform firefox
on any machine
any OS
any configuartion
any screen
never
on any test
magic river
bullshit
balmy gate
except for chromium on my aarch64 phone
balmy gate
I mean I have tested brave chromium and firefox
on a few tests
and firefox esr
one every time
waxen panther
firefoxs ui annoys me
balmy gate
firefoxs ui annoys me
you can change it
spare venture
vs what
waxen panther
i dont have time to go through configs and remove shit
balmy gate
to open search
spare venture
I liked it 🥺
waxen panther
the right click menu and the search on page bar at what annoys me the most
spare venture
What browser ui do you like
golden gust
Oh, yea, I'll jst, fire up firefox to remember what the UI looked like
waxen panther
chromium
spare venture
Ah
golden gust
Oh, there is an update, let's just install that
What do you main, failed?!
Oh, wait, i remmeber
waxen panther
lol
spare venture
I’m not a huge fan of chromium UI, but yeah I don’t like find UI on Firefox very much, yeah
golden gust
I erm... forgot I had a socks proxy setup...
balmy gate
I remove everything from ui
it's all bloat and useless
and just use ctrl+l to open search
magic river
iirc Firefox generally claims victory at one benchmark (each browser has one or more benchmarks they wrote and just so happen to win) and claims to have an advantage in things that are harder to measure like time to interactivity
golden gust
reminds of the reason I hate KDE
balmy gate
because userchrome.css
golden gust
Just seems like, bloaty
magic river
They don't try to claim they beat V8 at Optane or whatever
golden gust
Like, it's actually around the same height as vivaldi's
balmy gate
firefox in my personal experience has never lost a benchmark
spare venture
One thing is that chrome supports more stuff, I tend to have stuff not work on Firefox and have to switch to chrome occasionally
golden gust
It just has that bubbly wasteful look to it
spare venture
Since everything works on chrome
balmy gate
but never tried it on a normal configuration
golden gust
firefox is meh
balmy gate
i.e system with less than 16 cores
golden gust
I mean, it's fast now, give it a few years
firefox has like, twice, had a "look, we've massively overhauled performance!!!"
bragging as if their perf didn't literally hit the floor
magic river
Chrome supports more stuff sure, they invent stuff, have some bit of Google use it, and now their browser works best on the most used websites
golden gust
They now ask you to reset the entire browser if you've not used it in a few months
magic river
Then everyone is using Chrome so people are more likely to use those features in their sites too
wide citrus
firefox gets 30% less than chromium in octane bench for me
spare venture
I just don’t like google too much so I prefer not to use chrome if I can
balmy gate
firefox gets 30% less than chromium in octane bench for me
link?
wide citrus
magic river
Google is a pretty blatant monopoly abuser here
golden gust
chromium is what I'd use if I wanted to use chrome without the google
spare venture
All of the major tech companies are
wide citrus
it is made by google so take it with a cube of salt
golden gust
assuming vivaldi was out the window
spare venture
And it sucks
balmy gate
assuming vivaldi was out the window
gross vivaldi use to openly include spyware in the installation
golden gust
where?
magic river
balmy gate
the installer installed a opt out adware program
for a long time
before it was mainstream
golden gust
oh, I use mac so it's just "toss it in a folder"
balmy gate
are we ignoring this or
ignoring what?
merry talon
paper 1.0 is leaking
waxen panther
what speed test are you using
balmy gate
it's like those sketchy freeware installers that install 20 extra programs no one asked for @golden gust
magic river
Is paper 1.0 the times when wiz banned everyone?
waxen panther
r word isnt allowed anymore
spare venture
ableist slur
balmy gate
one of them
golden gust
yea, I know what they are
wide citrus
I would love to use konquerer, but the speed is just...
balmy gate
used to have one of those
golden gust
I used to use windows where practically everything would do that BS
balmy gate
ableist slur
my bad
merry talon
idk i consider paper 1.0 to be before discord existed
balmy gate
anarchy player sometimes hard to censor for non anarchy communities
golden gust
install a defragger and all of a sudden you have a full toolset of "system optimization" tools
balmy gate
and I forget
wide citrus
konqueror does suprisingly well on octane bench though, higher than firefox for me
balmy gate
install a defragger and all of a sudden you have a full toolset of "system optim...
that make your system slower
golden gust
no
spare venture
Is paper 1.0 the times when wiz banned everyone?
it’s the time before they had like, rules other than “don’t be an idiot”, but still had some basic rules
golden gust
Oh, yea, the tools
spare venture
I wasn’t here for pre discord but I’m assuming it was even worse
magic river
Unless you fill your disk over like 80% it shouldn't fragment much anyway
merry talon
I mean, ff does use an objectively slowr js engine in a world where every site ships 10MB of js
balmy gate
disk fargmenting is a myth ngl
merry talon
so if they went to v8 that'd be nice
balmy gate
This was like XP era
it's still a thing in windows 10 ngl
kids trying to get better fps on there craptops in fortnite
magic river
Firefox says their JS engine is quicker at parsing and beginning execution
wide citrus
unless you still have an hdd in 2021
golden gust
I know, but, I mean, it was before the era of SSDs and such
where disk fragmentation could be a massive issue
balmy gate
I own a lot of physical disk drives
for my cluster
it's only a thing on garbage files systems
like ntfs
wide citrus
btrfs masterfs
balmy gate
I use zfs
magic river
I want bcachefs
balmy gate
but ofc I use Btrfs on my desktop
golden gust
I use btrfs where I can generally, it's nice
wide citrus
higher
magic river
Even if it doesn't have snapshots before it makes it into the kernel I'll probably use it
golden gust
But, I can't say that it doesn't worry me at times
wide citrus
it works cross platform which is nice
magic river
You mean zfs?
balmy gate
snapshotting
waxen panther
weird
balmy gate
I think firefox does really well on high core count
spare venture
where do you get those scores
wide citrus
spare venture
Ty
cunning raft
lol isn't that google's own test
waxen panther
hello jroy!
wide citrus
still miffed about the removal of sync from chromium
magic river
Mozilla decided they couldn't keep up with Apple and Google on squeezing every optimization possible out so they pivoted toward trying to make something that might be slower but has lower latency
wide citrus
on one hand google gets less of my data
waxen panther
oh lmao it is
spare venture
yeah jroy i was thinking that too... it's chromium's test
magic river
WASM is for things that need to be fast and they're still winning on that
jade flax
yikes
spare venture
what browsers that
jade flax
firefox
jade flax
I am gonna do edge...
spare venture
yeah not everyones got 24 cores
jade flax
2700x here
golden gust
wide citrus
I'm pretty sure it's a single threaded bench anyways
golden gust
iMac 2015
spare venture
my firefox score was 24357, my chrome score was 55640
jade flax
edge be like
balmy gate
I'm pretty sure it's a single threaded bench anyways
no firefox multithreads JS whether you like it or not unless you turn the setting off
formal turret
ya 71k on edge for me
magic river
My laptop is 46837 chromium, 17169 firefox
balmy gate
but I think firefox is winning for me because no gpu
spare venture
edge score was 54841
merry talon
inb4 microsoft added some bs special treatment from windows
wide citrus
spare venture
so ff 24357, chrome 55640, edge 54841
wide citrus
magic river
Also you can't just take a program and run it on multiple threads
spare venture
so chromium is just better on that test
balmy gate
I can't run edge but I bet it'd loose on my machine
spare venture
cause edge is chromium now right?
merry talon
yes
magic river
You can do better at JIT and GC since you can toss that work on multiple threads but the actual execution is on one thread
balmy gate
so chromium is just better on that test
I think only if it's gpu accelerated
magic river
This is a JIT and GC benchmark
balmy gate
which it isn't in my tests because that machine doesn't have any graphics out
magic river
No GPU involved
wide citrus
yeah firefox acceleration is still a bit shoddy
balmy gate
because waste of pci
wide citrus
they did supposedly finally get gpu acceleration recently
spare venture
well, if the test is you know, not biased and reliable, that's pretty good
balmy gate
No GPU involved
then how come firefox trashes chromium for me
wide citrus
oh I see
golden gust
the octane stuff appears to be OS
magic river
They finally got it on Linux through a combination of WebRender being easier to work with, drivers getting better, and RedHat putting in the work to fix drivers and/or work around issues in WebRender
golden gust
dead, but, OS
jade flax
yep
waxen panther
24 cores on linux, chromium still way higher for me
magic river
Your iPhone 12 is probably faster than your desktop anyway 😛
jade flax
Look....
spare venture
i mean
waxen panther
took me a minute had to install firefox on here lol
magic river
At least on a single thread for 10 second bursts
jade flax
It's cause I don't have my 3070
spare venture
i dont know enough about that to say anything about it amaranth :p
jade flax
although, I may just send it and buy a prebuilt with a 3070 and then toss my 1070 in it and sell it
magic river
Well the M1 is the fastest in single threaded benchmarks and the iPhone 12 is mostly just a thermally throttled version of that
spare venture
i see
waxen panther
m1s for mc server hosting wen 
spare venture
jade flax
o god
waxen panther
> my phone running arch
they're an anarchy player just ignore it
magic river
I don't know how good the OpenJDK JIT is for arm64
balmy gate
m1s for mc server hosting wen <:krappa:739867712854950009>
someone is already doing it
golden gust
think we're still waiting on the JVM
merry talon
I mean, have you guys seen how thrashed those SSDs get with just regular usage
magic river
For a few years there Oracle was trying to use an arm64 JIT as a value add they charged money for
Then RedHat made one on their own
balmy gate
btw benchmarking a m1 against a x86 is a shit idea
jade flax
duh
magic river
Err, why?
magic river
Fuck you
upbeat falconBOT
Requested by STG-Allen#4013 - why doesn't a2h google for amaranth - result 1 of 8
merry talon
my phone is something that I want to be a seamless experience and I need it to always just work
merry talon
doesn't sound like that would be the case if I put arch on it
magic river
lol wccftech
balmy gate
my phone is something that I want to be a seamless experience and I need it to a...
different for me
I mainly use voip
if I am not home I don't want to be called
magic river
Also their argument is just wrong
merry talon
I don't ever want to be called but sometimes I need to be lol
golden gust
You see, modern x86 cores are very wide and a single thread in Windows is usually not enough to saturate the core and utilize all of its resources
magic river
Their complaint is that SMT exists but SMT only exists for the same reason M1 wins at single core benchmarks
golden gust
closes
balmy gate
well the bigger problem is that m1 is big little so a single threaded benchmark actually uses 2 cores
magic river
No it doesn't
balmy gate
google arm big little architecture
magic river
That is not how computing works
golden gust
no...
magic river
Dude I used to work for Linaro, we were the big.LITTLE people 😛
golden gust
big little is all about having low power CPUs there for when you don't need the raw juice of the bigger CPU
They're not running the task at the same time
magic river
You don't use the resources from both cores at once
golden gust
if you're doing heavy tasks you run on the "big" core, and the little core disappears from the picture
magic river
You run on the little core then when it has to clock too high for too long you switch it to the big core
balmy gate
you can actually you shouldn't but you can and it does
especially with rust apps
I have seen it happen
balmy gate
yup
magic river
Apparently not very well
golden gust
so... you're creating two threads...
golden gust
WHich means that those threads can run on two different cores
jade flax
oh my
golden gust
Which is 100% irrelevant in regards to single core specifics
balmy gate
WHich means that those threads can run on two different cores
ofc
magic river
I understand having speculative execution and out of order execution exist makes it sound like the CPU should be able to take your single thread and run it on multiple cores to make it faster but they don't do that
golden gust
I don't get what argument you're tryna make here
jade flax
then why did you even mention it....
static badge
i have found what I'v e been looking for my whole live
balmy gate
I am just saying that the fucking threads hop from core to core
static badge
life
waxen panther
live life
jade flax
yes
warm anchor
Leaf finally find his spottedleaf?
magic river
x86 goes the other way even, they can't do enough speculative execution to fully use one core for your single thread which is why SMT exists
magic river
No, it's proof the CPU design isn't as good
golden gust
benchmarks compare raw grunt
magic river
Which is why it loses the benchmark
golden gust
they're calculating how many ops the CPU can do
merry talon
uhh weren't they saying it would be biased in favor of the arm chip
golden gust
if the CPU throws the task around in the process, that's on the CPU
static badge
wait i thought benchmarks were just to validate my opinions
jade flax
Benchmarks aren't just what you get as a child? who would've known /s
magic river
Well no, it's usually on the OS 😛
golden gust
(assuming your OS isn't causing issues with interfering with the scheduling)
yea, I erm, am having some bad brain juice days
magic river
SMT exists because x86 can't decode and rearrange things enough to occupy their very wide cores so they pretend they're 2 cores instead
merry talon
wait i thought benchmarks were just to validate my opinions
nothing is compelling enough to validate your opinions
static badge
ok
magic river
That doesn't mean it's a biased test to benchmark against a CPU without SMT
static badge
didn't you lose your 1v1 with me
balmy gate
SMT exists because x86 can't decode and rearrange things enough to occupy their ...
your prolly right about this I am just talking about my experience with realistic performance and what I have heard other people say
waxen panther
didnt you lose your 1v1 with jroy?
static badge
jroy lost
magic river
M1 can decode and rearrange things enough to occupy their very wide cores so they don't use SMT
waxen panther
sure
static badge
final score was 4-2
balmy gate
M1 can decode and rearrange things enough to occupy their very wide cores so the...
I'm never gonna like the m1 once because it's a step away from everything I believe in, In computing encouraging companies to design there own closed source chips
merry talon
1v1 brocc next
waxen panther
i do not play ur silly weeb game
balmy gate
on there own propitiatory systems with no mainline kernel support
cunning raft
final score was 4-2
this is wrong
golden gust
own closed source chips
jade flax
didn't you place an order from a shady weeb site?
cunning raft
i WON
golden gust
You mean like, literally intel?
static badge
isn't x86 closed as well
cunning raft
the rest were flukes
balmy gate
You mean like, literally intel?
yeah fuck intel
merry talon
yeah I beat him before too
static badge
what cpu you using
magic river
There is no such thing as an open source CPU
golden gust
Like, outside of RISC, am not really sure that there is an OSS CPU worth even looking at for desktop computing
Well, RISC weren't even OS actually
static badge
my cpu should be under the gplv3 or else
golden gust
they where just sorta like "pick your packs" iircs
magic river
Taping out a CPU design requires using proprietary libraries and tooling from your fab
balmy gate
uh yes there is @magic river there are a few open source arm chips actually
spare venture
The more companies making CPUs the better
golden gust
on a comparable level to the M1 or x86?
static badge
are those arm chips under the gpl
merry talon
yeah and they're total garbage?
static badge
if not then naaah i aint touching them
balmy gate
I am on one rn
jade flax
You're on a lot
waxen panther
anarchy players are something else
magic river
You can make an open source verilog or whatever but to actually get it as a chip takes proprietary things being added to it and transforming it
spare venture
If you don’t manufacture your own CPU wtf are you doing
magic river
Also I think an open source ARM design would violate ARM's licensing
magic river
Unless someone made it from scratch without ARM's documentation or doing any business with them
static badge
oh right
balmy gate
take it up with pine64 and rockpro
static badge
agpl is the way
waxen panther
azlgplv55123413
magic river
riscv and sparc have open source designs (reference implementations, even) but unless you run it on an FPGA that you programmed using open source tooling it's not really open source
merry talon
imagine
magic river
They're the closest thing we've got though
pine64 does not make open source ARM chips
merry talon
"I accidentally interacted with this AGPL licensed processor over my corporate network so now I have to open source the whole software stack"
magic river
They just use rockchip SoCs iirc
golden gust
ye
magic river
They publish kernel forks that support their devices but the SoC isn't open source
jade flax
AGPL is ass
magic river
And to use all the functionality of the SoCs you have to use closed source firmware and drivers for parts of it
true canyon
AGPL is fabulous.
balmy gate
They just use rockchip SoCs iirc
yes but they opensource the spec diagrams
and all that shit
and they can run blobless
with no propitiatory code
magic river
That's for their board, the SoC is just a block on that diagram
golden gust
without a perf hit?
zealous wedge
can't you do that in vanilla?
magic river
"insert magic chip here"
balmy gate
without a perf hit?
blobless doesn't have a performance hit?
magic river
You can't query statistics from the API afaik
golden gust
I mean, I was asking if that was the case
magic river
I thought those were stored by the client anyway
golden gust
You can
static badge
isn't this conversation a gigantic distraction by how badly you interpreted basic benchmarks
balmy gate
anyway I am wrong on a lot of things and I am sorry for that but untill apple starts mainlining support for the m1 to the base linux kernel I do not like it
magic river
my a64 cluster would fucking trash a m1
btw this would only be true because your cluster has more cores, if you were testing which one could run Minecraft the best the M1 would smoke any ARM SBC you have
waxen panther
lulw
magic river
Mainline Linux will probably boot on the M1 in like 3 months
golden gust
Like, the entire stack with linux wouldn't make sense
magic river
You can do it today with out of tree stuff
balmy gate
btw this would only be true because your cluster has more cores, if you were tes...
it wouldn't smoke my i9-9900k dedicated minecraft server machine
magic river
It would, but maybe not at Minecraft because I don't know how good OpenJDK's arm64 JIT is
waxen panther
wow really 
static badge
i thought you had standards
waxen panther
every single part of my life is open source
static badge
ur mom open source
waxen panther
true 😳
balmy gate
It would, but maybe not at Minecraft because I don't know how good OpenJDK's arm...
it's very good I have used it to run java mc on my phone as a joke
zealous wedge
my corn is open-source
waxen panther
i have my open source mother typing on discord for me
balmy gate
discord is 🤮
jade flax
broccolai is secretly AI
waxen panther
😳
jade flax
sorry, had to
golden gust
why do I have doubts that you're able to comment on JIT itself
waxen panther
i do have the .ai domain
jade flax
well, then i didn't lie
balmy gate
why do I have doubts that you're able to comment on JIT itself
I mean I am not just saying running java mc gets good fps on arm
which may not be indicative of anything idk
static badge
why do I have doubts that you're able to comment on JIT itself
why do i have doubts ur able to make comments at all
golden gust
people use KiteBoard on paper just fine
might be some options in paper.yml you need to flip, no idea
balmy gate
btw this would only be true because your cluster has more cores, if you were tes...
btw
magic river
Amusingly, even on that "x86 should get to run 2 threads because SMT" article the Ryzen 4800U and i9-9980HK still only just barely beat the 1 thread M1 result
merry talon
wtf is this
jade flax
@waxen panther update grafana 
waxen panther
ok 😳
merry talon
brocc can i send you something to download 😳
golden gust
that pdf is literally useless
waxen panther
only if its extremely malicious 😳
golden gust
Like, unless you're an integrator, it's nothing
magic river
I guess SMT got better though, it used to be slower to put 2 threads on 1 core than to just run 1 thread
golden gust
I'd be interested to see
I know that there used to be a pretty nice perf boost in disabling SMT in some workloads
magic river
jade flax
never gonna happen
balmy gate
then I'll buy it
ancient bolt
what reason would they ever do that
magic river
ARM is hoping to get where the M1 is in a more available design by 2023
jade flax
Apple doesn't even allow you to buy parts, they'd never allow you to buy a cpu
balmy gate
see so therefor it doesn't matter if it's better if I can't use it @merry talon
golden gust
They're not gonna sell a standalone chip
balmy gate
exactly @jade flax
waxen panther
but but i want one allen !! 😠 😭
jade flax
besides, they'd have to redesign it so it wasn't soldered
golden gust
using the M1 for linux outside of general compute would be dumb
balmy gate
nah they could just sell a sbc @jade flax
golden gust
many of the gains of M1 outside of core specifics require stuff on the software side to take advantage of
jade flax
the revenue gain? 0
golden gust
which, I doubt that many tools are gonna care to go write the code for a chip which will have a small % of takeup on that platform
balmy gate
m1's performance gains are useless as it's not actually a standalone cpu
and can't be used
in a actual server
jade flax
sigh
merry talon
people are using it today
balmy gate
for performance gains
balmy gate
people are using it today
ik quantum dev uses it
merry talon
like right now
golden gust
Please, tell me
jade flax
"useless" stares at everyone with a m1
magic river
People are racking M1 Minis right now
golden gust
Why would you bother getting m1 chips to deploy linux nodes for
jade flax
where the fuck do you get your sentences from
balmy gate
People are racking M1 Minis right now
how much ram
magic river
16GB I'm sure
golden gust
Like, if you're gonna go out of your way to get M1s for your server setup, you are more than likely gonna be running macOS on there
magic river
It's the most the M1 supports, it's meant for laptops
balmy gate
exactly
magic river
$700 only gets you 8GB
balmy gate
haha
magic river
It's meant for laptops but smokes desktops
merry talon
I mean... they aren't just gonna make the M1 and then give up on the architecture
That's not the point
golden gust
This SOC is trash because outside of it's specific tailered market place it's useless!!!1!!!!
magic river
I'm curious how good their big laptop and desktop designs are going to be
balmy gate
in some single threaded applications
jade flax
How did we go from absurd claims about cpus and a how a rust program running on two threads backed said claims to this
waxen panther
i want apple to sell me things at cost !!!! 
golden gust
the only people getting M1 based machines for servers are those who are gonna be using macOS for their deployments
magic river
The only reason it doesn't beat high end Intel and AMD stuff at multithreaded stuff is because they have more cores
balmy gate
you can get 24 cores and 64+ gb of ram for the price of a mac mini with a m1
golden gust
anybody else is just gonna go for something x86 based for the mainline community love or some arm cluster
balmy gate
arm clusters based
golden gust
as somebody who loves macOS, the OS makes up a lot for me
golden gust
outside of the OS, you'd be a moron to get a mac
but, be interesting to see arm catch up
merry talon
oh here we go
golden gust
I would loooove for x86 to die
magic river
In general I'm more excited to see where ARM's X1 and Neoverse stuff goes but since I'll probably own another MacBook Pro before the end of this year the M1 and M2 or whatever are super exciting for me
merry talon
M series X
magic river
My 1 year warranty on my laptop expires in May, seems like a good time to start looking for a replacement 😛
waxen panther
s / psychotic / employed
upper flicker
ideal apple customer, replaces it every year lol
magic river
But it's so outdated now, just look at it
spare venture
Lmao
upper flicker
looks fineeeeeee even if its a 13”
spare venture
My XPS 15 has lasted 4.5 years but it’s really starting to show its age now
merry talon
your 10th gen cpu probably outperforms the same tier ice lake one
magic river
I usually aim to use a computer for 5 years but my last two were MBPs
This is an Ice Lake one...
spare venture
Had to replace the battery after 2 yrs (manufacturer defect), and now the current one is on its last legs
spare venture
Trackpad barely functions too
merry talon
Rocket lake?
golden gust
batteries are only rated generally for like 1k cycles anyways
think most laptops are generally in the like 500ish range
spare venture
The first one expanded so much it broke the trackpad
magic river
I went with the XPS because I thought WSL would be good enough and the equivalent MBP was twice the price
golden gust
so glad that they glue the fuckers in these days
magic river
The price being $1700
merry talon
Well, is WSL good enough?
magic river
No, which is why I'm on Ubuntu instead 😛
balmy gate
powerfull laptops are a waste
golden gust
See, I remember the days where we'd often unplug the laptop just to let it do a cycle
balmy gate
just ruin battery life
golden gust
or, remove the battery on hot summer days to try to preserve it
spare venture
Well I haven’t had a desktop for a while
golden gust
Now they just glue the fucking thing in and call it a day
merry talon
GPUs in laptops is pointless yes
spare venture
College doesn’t really work well with desktops
balmy gate
anything powerfull you do on your laptop should be run on a actual capable machine
merry talon
powerful cpus are good
golden gust
Depends on your usecase, really
jade flax
Glue? have you heard of acetone?
magic river
I don't want a laptop with a dedicated GPU
balmy gate
what pc intensive applications are you running on your laptop?
golden gust
Like, as a student, I was glad to have a laptop and a desktop at home
spare venture
You can’t really get away with not having a laptop in college and you’re usually broke to the point where it’s one or the other
magic river
I want one with the fastest CPU that can fit within a 15W window though
jade flax
acetone + credit card = easy battery removal
golden gust
but, like, if it was one or the other, I'd rather have a good GPU in a laptop
merry talon
...you're really reaching at this point
golden gust
not always viable
spare venture
No thanks
merry talon
dev work can be intensive too
golden gust
many colleges use CGNAT
balmy gate
if you use a wiregaurd tunnel and vnc over localhost you get p100 performance
magic river
Holy shit Gonzaga
jade flax
oh my
golden gust
which means now you gotta fuck around with vpns/tunneling
jade flax
let me just wash my eyes out now
balmy gate
which means now you gotta fuck around with vpns/tunneling
oh my god so hard wg-quick up
golden gust
Sooo
jade flax
why go through all the trouble
golden gust
you gotta have a machine
and then you gotta have a VPS or something to throw the VPN on
erm...
spare venture
Yeah I needed a laptop for college
merry talon
also forgetting that you have to bring that shit around with you
spare venture
A powerful laptop
merry talon
and it sounds like a jetliner
magic river
I don't think the championship game will be as good as that was
balmy gate
and then you gotta have a VPS or something to throw the VPN on
bro just buy a 1u and throw in a quadro so fucking cheap
spare venture
Dell XPS or MacBook Pro was pretty much required for my degree
spare venture
And MacBook couldn’t handle or run the stuff rrquired
balmy gate
you can colo it if needed
spare venture
I don't think the championship game will be as good as that was
Yeah that was the best of the tourney
merry talon
balmy gate
still cheaper than a high power laptop
magic river
Odds are I'll either wait another year on the laptop and start upgrading windows in my house or try to sell this or something
balmy gate
and runs 24/7
merry talon
a few months of colo costs the same as a good laptop
golden gust
Not something people using laptops generally give a shit about
jade flax
tfw you're making absurd claims.... have you ever lived in a dorm?
magic river
If someone made a cheap slower laptop that had good build quality and a hidpi screen that might be worth considering
jade flax
ever run a 1u in the same room as you?
magic river
I wouldn't want to stare at a 1366x768 screen all day though
balmy gate
ever run a 1u in the same room as you?
yeah I keep 3 on the desk next to me
balmy gate
If someone made a cheap slower laptop that had good build quality and a hidpi sc...
pbp
spare venture
Ok listen
void void
A quick search. Which game mode do you like the most? Factions, full pvp, skyblock, other (which one)?
spare venture
Not everyone is a psychopath
warm anchor
I mean I want my hearing so no thanks
spare venture
99.99% of people will need to use a laptop and nothing else
golden gust
asking server owners and devs their favourite game mode
warm anchor
xDDD
merry talon
SMP
warm anchor
ask party
spare venture
A quick search. Which game mode do you like the most? Factions, full pvp, skyblo...
Survival is the easiest and most popular, if that’s what you’re asking
warm anchor
party's favorite activities is looking at his server tps
void void
Guys should my sister give me a family discount to her onlyfans?
golden gust
Yes
spare venture
party's favorite activities is looking at his server tps
balmy gate
99.99% of people will need to use a laptop and nothing else
buy a cheap chromebook install arch with openbox
p100 laptop
golden gust
It's all about Alabama hospitality
spare venture
buy a cheap chromebook install arch with openbox
How’s it going to run Solidworks and Matlab?
merry talon
oh jesus
magic river
pinebook pro has shit build quality, an awful touchpad, and 1080p isn't that great for a 14" display
spare venture
Or IntelliJ
Or any of the shit I need
Or the quantum mechanics simulation software
merry talon
your first mistake is assuming that chromebooks are actually cheap
warm anchor
A2H do you hack the mainframe every night? be honest with me
balmy gate
How’s it going to run Solidworks and Matlab?
uh I could vnc over wiregaurd into a machine with a gv 100 and it'd be p100
merry talon
they aren't
spare venture
Bruh this guy
spare venture
You sound like you haven’t seen daylight in a week
jade flax
party, you're on to something
golden gust
and, erm, gaming?
balmy gate
You sound like you haven’t seen daylight in a week
nah I was just outside about 20m ago
been on the road all week
warm anchor
sir outside of your room =/= outside
merry talon
sheeeesh he goes outside too