general

[stray oyster]

oh no no no no no no no no no please no

[limber knot]

don't worry TJ, neither does anyone else

EUPL is basically GPL but written by the EU government

[plucky canopy]

lmao

[stray oyster]

proxi help

[limber knot]

unless someone here is a real lawyer

[plucky canopy]

x to doubt

[limber knot]

Does EUPL have Classpath exception?

no idea, has been some time when I read it last

[minor badge]

[brave radish]

maybe when people ask about donating to paper paper should just put their money in a giant "buy me a lawyer to sort this out" fund

[limber knot]

Or does it include any dependents as deriviates like GPL?

spigot had a "legal fund"

look where it got them

[stray oyster]

DONT bring that up

[limber knot]

just don't do this: https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/

;D

[stray oyster]

I am trying to forget that dumpster fire

[limber knot]

but I fully expect any reasonable lawyer to see bukkit and run away screaming

[stray oyster]

I expect ANY lawyer to look at the community, the base, and what we are working on to die from shock

[upper flicker]

pretty much

[limber knot]

that is why everyone that works near bukkit can be considered an amateur lawyer

[cunning raft]

we need legal eagle

[brave radish]

unfortunately I think a lawyer would be more likely to find some reason to shut down paper then to help

[upper flicker]

we're relocating all developers who work on the server to some random country that doesnt observe copyright

papermc-legal-fund

we just fly everyone somewhere else

[stray oyster]

The only lawyers hardcore enough to defend this mess would be the ones that defended BP when they had the incident with the deepwater horizon

[cunning raft]

papermc-legal-fund = z750 law degree fund

[upper flicker]

pls no

[limber knot]

Geolykt: the thing about the EUPL is that you can relicense it's code under other licenses (including GPL, LGPL and MPL)

[ashen cliff]

So Albania?

[limber knot]

I guess the EUPL is more like the LGPL now that I read it again

[upper flicker]

not this block game

[limber knot]

phoenix616: Including MIT? If yes, then I'm using that now as my main license

[brave radish]

then why not just use MIT to begin with?

[limber knot]

you can't relicense it under MIT as far as I can tell

they mention which licenses are allowed and which aren't

so how does EUPL work when accepting contributions from a non-EU citizen to your EUPL project

or well, the ones not mentioned aren't

I don't think that matters, zml

if you have to be a EU citizen to use it

I'm just not sure the EU would defend the rights of a non-EU citizen

[magic river]

I can't believe 3 months later you still can't buy a PS5 or XSX anywhere

[stray oyster]

License: FFA.license: The license is defined by a DMZ warzone. On the one side we have the no-open-license faction, to the north is the MIT section, to the east you can find the *GPL states. Oh and those few sad lonely bunch over there are with Apache

[magic river]

I don't even think the Switch was sold out that long

[limber knot]

the added benefit of being backed by your government is just not there when you aren't an EU citizen so just using LGPL would more or less have the same effect

ah

also one could argue that this is an issue with the EUPL: "Another specificity of the EUPL is that it is interoperable, without any viral effect in case of static and dynamic linking.[25] This currently depends on European and national law, according to the Computer Programs Directive (Directive 91/250 EEC or 2009/24)."

[true canyon]

Keep trying newegg shuffles when they're in them, Amaranth?

[limber knot]

so a law change could basically change the interpretation of the license

[magic river]

CraftBukkit was not LGPL, btw

[limber knot]

(and of course it's non-virality is pretty dumb)

what was CB then :p

[magic river]

It was GPL, has a copy of the LGPL too for some reason, and was effectively GPL no matter what due to Bukkit

[limber knot]

It was an invalid license to be more specific

[magic river]

GPL and LGPL are compatible, you just treat the whole as GPL in that situation

[limber knot]

doesn't that depend on whether or not implementation/usage of an API makes it inherit the GPL?

[magic river]

That is standard copyright law

[limber knot]

I mean, yes, the distributed jar was licensed under GPL

but the code itself?

[magic river]

Using an API deifnitely makes it inherit the GPL

Shipping them in one jar makes the jar definitely GPL

[limber knot]

But if you use the implementation?

why is there a court case between google and oracle going on about exactly that?

[void void]

rip cd projekt

[limber knot]

if it's that clear?

[magic river]

CraftBukkit's LICENSE file was the GPL anyway

[void void]

they got hacked by a kiddo

[limber knot]

also CDPR stuff is old news, lol

I am 100% sure that it is LGPL

[magic river]

Oracle v Google is about whether an API is covered by copyright, that's a different thing

[limber knot]

we are discussing 7 year old news here 👀

confusing every time and never gets me anywhere closer to me selecting a license for my stuff lol

Bukkit is an API

[magic river]

That would mean even if you start from scratch and make a copy of Bukkit it would still be GPL because the API itself is covered

[limber knot]

if api isn't covered by copyright then you can't enforce a license on it or it's implementation via GPL virality

[magic river]

Bukkit is a library you depend on

[brave radish]

so wait why doesn't that mean every server plugin has to be GPL?

[limber knot]

that court case is irrelevant to Bukkit

[magic river]

Yes, that is what that means

[limber knot]

to bukkit? yes

to craftbukkit? no, it's relevant

an "API" for the purposes of that court case is method names and signatures

bukkit has implementation as well

it's not pure-interface

so? someone could re-implement it?

depends on the outcome of that court case :p

yes

[magic river]

CraftBukkit wasn't implementing the Bukkit API design from scratch, it was pulling in the Bukkit library and plugging in to it as needed

[limber knot]

which is my point

but also there is so much undocumented behaviour in bukkit implementation that you couldn't be fully compatible without the original source

if google wins that court case I am sure we will get a GPLv4

[magic river]

So even if you tried to argue CraftBukkit was LGPL (which it wasn't, LICENSE was a copy of the GPL) since it was pulling in Bukkit it was effectively GPL anyway

[brave radish]

so if I compile a plugin with the paper-api jar in it... wouldn't this mean it has to be GPL?

[magic river]

Legally, yes

[limber knot]

most plugins don't have paper-api "in it" when distributing

[tropic flame]

it has to be GPL even if you don't ship it in the jar, you just gotta link against it

[magic river]

Only people who have contributed to paper-api could sue you for it though

[limber knot]

legally yes, every plugin that depends on bukkit or any of its forks should be GPL

and whether or not depending on the api makes GPL virality happen depends on google vs oracle

at least according to the GPL faq

[wide chasm]

This is where my 20 char Paper change comes in handy, finally I can sue people /s

[limber knot]

yes, GPL authors wrote it to work that way

[brave radish]

hmm so a one-button mistake in IJ could make your plugin's license choice illegal?

[magic river]

No, depending on the API makes it GPL regardless of Google v Oracle because the only implementation of the API is GPL

[limber knot]

no zombie

[wide chasm]

It just has to be GPL compatible

[limber knot]

but seeing as GPLv3 got already broken with Affero I'm convinced they will release a new one at some point

[brave radish]

I have no clue what I'm talking about, just a disclaimer

[magic river]

Making a plugin, no matter how you do it, you have to use a GPL-compatible license according to the law

[limber knot]

A​ma​ra​nt​h: the only implementation until a new one

https://hub.spigotmc.org/stash/projects/SPIGOT/repos/craftbukkit/commits/5c37168fc3c52e36b6fff0dc72806ac81345cd1f#LICENCE.txt has to be the strangest commit ever

[magic river]

No one is enforcing this right now though

[brave radish]

correction: hmm so a one-button mistake in IJ could make your plugin's license choice illegal?

[limber knot]

not at all Geolykt, that's how LGPL works

Geolykt: yes

you have to have both licenses in the repo

[magic river]

If there was a reimplementation of the API done from scratch using a different license and your plugin depended on that instead you could have an argument

[limber knot]

shouldn't "LGPL" have been named "LICENSE" and "LICENSE" "GPL"?

[upper flicker]

every time the completely fucked history of Bukkit licensing comes up it takes over for like 12 hours

[limber knot]

there are specific guidelines from the FSF phoenix616

[upper flicker]

#licensing-politics wen

[limber knot]

it'd have to be bridged with irc

you just want to shut me up, Z 👀

[upper flicker]

why, what'd you say?

[magic river]

tldr it's GPL and every plugin should be GPL-compatible but no one does that because I don't have the money to sue you

[brave radish]

do it lol

[limber knot]

Why not make a LICENSE and COPYING file?

just scroll up, mate

[magic river]

If I had the money to burn I'd be suing you

[tropic flame]

who knew licensing was such a fun conversation, i wanna be a lawyer now (50% /s here)

[upper flicker]

no one said there'd be reading 👀

[wide chasm]

licensing-politics would be great, all armchair lawyers together (including myself)

(But like, no more channels please, it was just a joke)

[limber knot]

I'm using MIT or Apache either way for my plugins, the GPL has no say on that matter, may I fight until death for that. For CB forks I couldn't care less, they have to deal with it themselves.

[magic river]

iirc we used GPLv3 so MIT or Apache would be fine, they're compatible

[limber knot]

wat

if the api infects it then no they aren't

[magic river]

The end result is effectively GPL but you can use MIT for your plugin

[limber knot]

everything has to be GPLv3 or stricter which touches code (according to stallman)

[magic river]

That means any part of the plugin code that isn't dependent on the API could be lifted out of the project and used under the rules of the MIT license

[limber knot]

So LGPL requires the GPL text because LGPL is basically a wrapper (if I may call it) for the GPL?

ok I guess, any form of library that doesn't touch your plugin or Bukkit at all can be whatever license you want

but it has to be distributable under the GPL

[magic river]

Intel does that for their Linux GPU driver, it's BSD licensed so the FreeBSD folks can pull code from it

[limber knot]

the only license I'd like is that you give credit to me in ur project description if u use muh codez in ur project and I can't find a license that says something to that effect

[magic river]

That's 3 clause BSD, iirc

[limber knot]

all open source licenses state to keep copyright notes intact

MIT is kindof that iirc

[upper flicker]

sorry my project is licensed as 'RoboMWM-does-not-get-credit'

[brave radish]

So couldn't the source code of a plugin still be whatever license it wants?

[limber knot]

so put your copyright note into the project description...

e.g. ur spigot page should say uses code from "project" by robomwm or w/e

[magic river]

The source code can be any GPL-compatible license you want

[limber knot]

or do what the GPL suggests: print a copryight note on program startup

no like if someone uses a portion of my code in their plugin phoenix

don't care too much about server admins running my plogenz

Yeah, that is an excellent idea to do that with plugins

[brave radish]

so this is going on the basis that the class name "JavaPlugin" belongs to bukkit?

and other names?

[limber knot]

no

read the FAQ

e.g. mr qball man

[magic river]

Your plugin source code can be any GPL-compatible license you want, the jar you build from it is effectively GPL though

[limber knot]

No, they still belong to you

[brave radish]

what FAQ lol

[limber knot]

I should start printing the entirety of the GPL on startup with my plugins

[magic river]

Which is why you can only use GPL-compatible licenses otherwise you'd be violating one of the two with the jar

[limber knot]

The FSF FAQ about GPL

[brave radish]

but since I'm talking about the source itself, not the build, why would it have to be GPL-comtabible?

[limber knot]

Amaranth: that kindof makes sense

[magic river]

Your plugin is a derivative work (google that) of a project that uses the GPL which means the GPL applies to it too

[magic river]

Because if the source wasn't under a GPL-compatible license the binary would be violating whatever license you did use

[limber knot]

you can charge whatever you want

m​yo​ka​n: of course you can

myonkan: yes you can

GPL doesn't stop you from charging

You can even charge a trillion dollars

you just have to release the fork under the terms of the GPL

[brave radish]

what if I don't distribute a jar then?

[limber knot]

so if someone buys it, they have an offer for source and can freely distribute it

[magic river]

The binary has to follow the GPL so if whatever license you use for the source requires something that isn't compatible with the GPL you can't satisfy both licenses at the same time

[limber knot]

then nobody cares, Zombie

[magic river]

If you don't distribute it copyright doesn't even apply

[limber knot]

if you don't distribute the plugin, nobody cares lol

[brave radish]

I'd distribute the source I mean

[limber knot]

What if I distibute an wrapper that builds the jar at runtime?

[brave radish]

that's what I've been asking lol

[limber knot]

Geolykt: then you have buildtools

which bypasses the whole licensing thing

Yes, but for plugins

(at least according to md's lawyers apparently)

[magic river]

If you distribute source it has to be GPL-compatible

[brave radish]

why this then?

[limber knot]

because the GPL states that

and Bukkit is GPL

Now I just need to create some unlinked JVM bytecode thing to not distribute massive source files

3 clause bsd seems to just prevent others from using ur name/project name to promote their derivative

[brave radish]

I still don't get it. All the stuff from bukkit that's in the source code itself is the names of classes and methods and stuff, right?

[limber knot]

which is fine but is not a "gimme credit"

keeping copyright heards intact is basically what you are looking for, robo.

[magic river]

Bukkit is more than just names of things

[limber knot]

there is no other industry standard besides that

*headers

hm

o well then

[magic river]

Even if it was just names of things Oracle v Google has ruled that names of things would be covered by the GPL too and CraftBukkit was GPL anyway so Spigot and Paper are as well

[brave radish]

yes but all that's in the source itself is the name, even though those names are part of something bigger

[magic river]

So no matter what you're covered by the GPL

[limber knot]

just want ppl like qball to say "uses code from WildernessTP by RoboMWM n stuff like that c:

I mean you can run your own thing, Robo, but then nobody will use your code

[magic river]

Your work doesn't do anything without Bukkit, it builds on top of Bukkit

That makes it a derivative work

Standard copyright law is you aren't allowed to make a derivative work without my permission

I give you permission via the GPL but you have to follow the license

[brave radish]

I see, so even just the source code itself is considered a derivative of Bukkit?

[magic river]

Yes

[limber knot]

(and all proper programs using open source code/libraries which they didn't buy some special license for have some sort of open source licenses used copyright overview)

Dang it

[brave radish]

that's kinda weird as bukkit, as you said, is a lot more then the names I used, but ok

[meager tusk]

This license shit is a bit of a mess

[limber knot]

I'm probably being super dumb but are you saying that all plugins made on bukkit need to be GPL?

yes, welcome to copyright law

[brave radish]

(names I used in this hypothetical plugin)

[limber knot]

What if I encrypt it?

[magic river]

They need to be GPL compatible according to the law, yes

[tropic flame]

yes

[magic river]

You can't obfuscate your way out of being a derivative work, this isn't some program you're trying to trick, it's the legal system

[limber knot]

that's what it means to be a viral OSS license

[cunning raft]

The FitnessGram PACER Test is a multistage aerobic capacity test that progressively gets more difficult as it continues.

The test is used to measure a student's aerobic capacity as part of the FitnessGram assessment. Students run back and forth as many times as they can, each lap signaled by a beep sound. The test get progressively faster as it continues until the student reaches their max lap score.

The PACER Test score is combined in the FitnessGram software with scores for muscular strength, endurance, flexibility and body composition to determine whether a student is in the Healthy Fitness Zone™ or the Needs Improvement Zone™.

[meager tusk]

Ok

[limber knot]

what

ok so why did I thought "wtf did poland do" when I saw this? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611697863579402254/807053846244491284/202101017_PMM_JanChangelog_2020.png

[potent fossil]

well @vernal moth remember me talking about the coyote earlier, dog didn't make it

once again fuck coyotes

[brave radish]

🤣

what just happened?

[magic river]

https://www.linux.com/news/software-derivative-work-jurisdiction-dependent-determination/

[magic river]

You can get lost down this rabbit hole for a while, for the most part people just agree on what some of these terms means and where they apply but courts haven't ruled on all of it

[lean kiln]

coyotes ate my grandmas cat too

[magic river]

So if you're looking for a 100% confirmation that something is/isn't okay you aren't going to get it

Just a "more than likely" answer

[ashen cliff]

And everything goes to 💩 when it goes international.

[limber knot]

well you can get it... IN COURT!

[brave radish]

but which court?

which country?

[limber knot]

your own

[brave radish]

can you really get a definite answer?

[limber knot]

then your government has to international politics it

you can hire a lawyer to give you an answer

[magic river]

Make sure you say that after losing a legal battle, that shows you have the best brain

[brave radish]

ok... I'm in the US, so unless I go all the way to the supreme court I don't really have a "defenite answer"

[limber knot]

;D

[brave radish]

not that I need one anyway

[limber knot]

well, you could get sued and a judge could give you an answer until you run out of courts willing to hear your appeals

no, that is the stupid thing with copyright

technically there is UN courts too but I doubt they handle such cases currently

[lean kiln]

i doubt you will make it to the supreme court over plugin licensing

[magic river]

The cases that have been ruled around software derivative works and the GPL in particular in the US agree with the commonly accepted definitions I've been using

So you're almost certainly going to lose if you go against them but maybe not

[limber knot]

j​mp​: google vs oracle is right there now on a related case

[magic river]

Oracle v Google is technically a settled case already

[lean kiln]

ok yeah but a literal spigot plugin case will not make it that far

[limber knot]

so yes, copyright cases go to supreme court

[vernal moth]

Poor thing

[lean kiln]

for multiple reasons

[magic river]

We've come to a final agreement at the highest level that API design is covered by copyright

[brave radish]

I'm not gonna go to court with it of course; I'm just saying if I want a real answer that the only way would be the supreme court

[limber knot]

*in the US

;D

[magic river]

The appeals going on in lower courts are whether or not cloning that API design counts as fair use

That was Google cloning an API covered by the GPL to try to use a different license, btw 😄

[limber knot]

more to "try to not pay oracle, a known copyright troll, billions"

So GPL can be considered a valid license then

[magic river]

So it's basically the same case you'd get if you tried to make a clone of the Bukkit API to avoid the GPL and I sued you

[limber knot]

which is why I think it is important

[brave radish]

hmm so here's an interesting one...

[limber knot]

(teh decicion in the end)

because if reimplementing the API is fair use...

then creating a non-GPL bukkit clone would be fine

[brave radish]

in 2018, I create some source code for a plugin

in 2019, my imaginary friend Billy makes his first contribution to paper

[limber knot]

Or we could just all ditch Bukkit and use Minestom

[brave radish]

I publish my code under a non GPL-compatible license

[limber knot]

so on a completely unrelated question: what is the difference between Pterodactyl 0.7 and 1.0 and why would you not use the latest?

[brave radish]

what can Billy do other then ask someone else to sue me?

[magic river]

Ditch 🪣 and use 🧽

[zealous wedge]

lol

[formal turret]

what about fabric :>

[magic river]

If you changed your code after his contribution he could sue you too

[limber knot]

Well, you are implementing Bukkit, not Paper, so he cannot

[brave radish]

oh yeah I meant first contrib to bukkit lol

[zealous wedge]

well, bukkit hasn't existed since 2014

[brave radish]

it's a hypothetical

it doesn't matter

ok, fine, if I use paper-api and billy contributes to that

[magic river]

Everything in Paper is covered by GPL too, although I don't know if you guys are forcing new contributions to be under a less restrictive GPL-compatible license or not

[limber knot]

Then maybe, idk if he only holds the rights to sue over his contribution or the whole project

[left swift]

Damn this still goin

Pop off

[limber knot]

it's not forced

[upper flicker]

it's offered

not forced

[limber knot]

but some license their patches under MIT

Yes, Paper is encouraging contributions under MIT

[magic river]

Technically Billy would have to contribute to a part of Paper your plugin uses

[upper flicker]

you have very broad definitions of encouraging

[magic river]

Like, if they contribute fixes to the conversation API but you don't use that I'm pretty sure they don't have standing

[limber knot]

I consider it to be encouraged last time I read it

[brave radish]

amaranth I literally just realized your profile is a person

*person

I thought it was just random shapes

[limber knot]

Sure, it's not explicitly stated that you should do that

[upper flicker]

spigot's mappings originate from CB yes

[magic river]

mc-dev mappings were all rights reserved

We didn't publish them either

Curse, probably, although I certainly didn't agree to that so no one

[vernal moth]

my best guess would be mojang

[magic river]

Curse probably owns the versions the original team did, they technically bought the project and were even paying some of the original team before they got hired by Mojang

But no one told me that and I didn't agree for any of my stuff to be owned by Curse so there are two incompatible copyright claims to the CB mappings

[brave radish]

/kick @ s this is confusing

[vernal moth]

its such is mess

[magic river]

Of course I got a lot of my names from the Mojang mappings so I was violating their copyright there too 😛

[limber knot]

I don't think that Curse bought bukkit, or am I wrong=

[magic river]

Curse definitely bought Bukkit

The only question is if they bought out the copyright to things

But they owned the websites and the team were Curse employees

[zealous wedge]

https://github.com/md-5/SpecialSource/issues/4 lol

[vernal moth]

which normally means transfer of copyright too

[magic river]

Then that team got snatched up by Mojang and we came in like a bunch of suckers to do the same job for free

[zealous wedge]

yikes

[magic river]

No one ever said Curse bought the project or they were getting paid to work on the project

We found out about all that when Microsoft bought Mojang

[limber knot]

Ok so this is another dumb question, but why does mojang even distribute everything obfuscated if they provide mappings?

[magic river]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[brave radish]

file size and startup time

[zealous wedge]

i assume some thing with their lawyers

[limber knot]

DRM

[magic river]

Yeah, the mappings they provide don't have parameter or local variable names

[next lion]

free the mappings!!!!!

[limber knot]

Basically some really stupid vague copyright law

[zealous wedge]

well, they ship parameter and local variable names

they're just all ⛄

[ashen cliff]

Everything is in a state, that it just works till questioned.

[vernal moth]

ms legal is really hard to work with, but the current mappings licence is more than we could ever wish for (and I personally annoyed dinnerbone weekly to get to that point, and I thank him for pressuring this internally)

[magic river]

I thought they were all ⛄ in the bytecode to begin with, why would the mappings bother to map them from ⛄ to ⛄ ?

[zealous wedge]

they're not in the mappings

there are just names included in bytecode when those names could be not included

[golden gust]

can confirm, dinner seemed a week or two between getting an order against mini

[brave radish]

lol

[vernal moth]

hey, I did what had to be done!

[magic river]

iirc the first snapshot where they switched to that setup tried to make too many things ⛄ and just wouldn't run

[zealous wedge]

ah quality

[magic river]

Like they were making all the classes ⛄ or something

[zealous wedge]

heh

[limber knot]

how does the JVM even handle that?

[magic river]

It doesn't

[brave radish]

what does ⛄ even mean?

[golden gust]

[vernal moth]

I basically posted this weekly https://i.imgur.com/Q0qGVj5.png

[zealous wedge]

any utf-8 string is a valid class name iirc

[golden gust]

JVM doesn't even care

[limber knot]

Are there different Snowman unicodes or something else?

[zealous wedge]

probably not

which is why it didn't work

[magic river]

Classes are referenced by name afaik so have to be unique

[zealous wedge]

you can overload field and method names too, but mojang doesn't do that

[magic river]

They can name multiple methods ⛄ though so long as they have different signatures

[limber knot]

Or you can have a package for each class

[golden gust]

Yea, all that matters is that the JVM is able to figure out what it's calling with the signatures

[zealous wedge]

descriptors, not signatures

[golden gust]

jvm doesn't give a single shit practically about what they're called

Psh

[magic river]

descriptor is signature plus name, right?

[zealous wedge]

signature is the Signature attribute which has generics info

[magic river]

bleh

[zealous wedge]

descriptor is the types with generics info stripped

[magic river]

Did they stop stripping out generic info?

[zealous wedge]

yeah, they have generics info and have had it for a while

[visual stag]

this isnt paper btw, vanilla server
I have this server set to *:25567, but it says that the port is already running a server??
https://prnt.sc/z0k12q < server thats not working
https://prnt.sc/z0k3sl < its port fowarded
https://prnt.sc/z0k5pd < server thats running right now

its not paper

its vanilla

21w06a

i litteraly changed the port

there is nothing running on 25567

logs said tehres a nother thing

i have a server thats not runnig thats on that port

does that change things

[magic river]

It is running

[zealous wedge]

why do we care that you can't start a server

[visual stag]

no

im trying to fix it

[magic river]

It must be

[visual stag]

its not

[magic river]

No, the other server

[visual stag]

the servfer thats on :25565 is

[magic river]

You didn't actually kill it, the process must still exist

You said you had another server on that port

[visual stag]

i havent ran it in like.. a month

[zealous wedge]

oh you changed query port, not actual server port

[visual stag]

ive ran that server once a month ago

[zealous wedge]

read the line in the config

[visual stag]

OHH

ok

makes sense

thanks

just testing performance of new snapshot

wait since when did /tps not exist on vanilla servers

is there a way for me to check tps

[next lion]

I mean wolverness didn't sue md5 for craftbukkit

[visual stag]

i dont think i can do that, this snapshot released 3 hours ago

[next lion]

inductive reasoning says md5 won't sue paper

let's just do it

[golden gust]

/tps has literally never been a thing on vanilla

[visual stag]

oh

[golden gust]

Think best you've got is their debugger thing

[zealous wedge]

integrated server has a tps graph

[visual stag]

this?

thats a pretty bad tps

[zealous wedge]

no

[visual stag]

oh

[zealous wedge]

that's not integrated server

[visual stag]

avg tixck

[zealous wedge]

that's s/tick, not ticks/s

[visual stag]

oh

[golden gust]

that's the mspt, basically

[zealous wedge]

you really need to read

[visual stag]

well 6mspt is good ik that

[visual stag]

i was talking about the Average Tick not the mem graph

[ashen cliff]

It's accessible via jmx if you really want it.

[spare venture]

7.931mspt is very good

[limber knot]

I embrace my 56mspt server

[visual stag]

well im getting 6.4mspt now

while runnig 2 server

[limpid comet]

@worn ember space game

what was it

[olive garden]

Dyson sphere

simulator

[magic river]

20 tps is 50 mspt

Anything less than 50 is good

[olive garden]

I will throw this here again

any way to reduce my TPS to like 5?

[golden gust]

Yes, get a few villagers

[olive garden]

okay, let me rephrase

how do I increase sleep time to like 200ms?

that makes no sense

hmmm

[upper flicker]

hey guys want to take about bukkit licensing some more

[olive garden]

how do I make my server not go my laptop brrrrrrrrr?

[twin lagoon]

thread.sleep(5000) minecraftserver.class

do it the craftimize way ^

[magic river]

Modify the server and find the place where it does Thread.sleep to keep ticks at around 50 ms

[upper flicker]

everyone knows that bukkit is wtfpl

[olive garden]

but I don't want to modify the server software

oooor

[zealous wedge]

why would we shitpost our way to mojmap when it's already happening

[olive garden]

I could PR it 👀

[magic river]

Some day I'll finish buying my house and put that money in to Bukkit lawsuits instead 😛

[zealous wedge]

then use mixin, trig

[olive garden]

oh no, a solution

my day is ruined

[magic river]

Don't you need to modify the server to load mixins?

[zealous wedge]

you can load mixin with a wrapper

[golden gust]

Modifying the softtware is basically your only option ther eunless you got a mixin loader

classes are transformed as/before they're loaded or something

[zealous wedge]

https://github.com/Mineteria-Development/Ignite

[golden gust]

Mikroskeem thing I spelt his name right had a mixin loader for paper

[magic river]

I guess you could have a generic mixin loader that you point at the jar you want to modify and at your mixins and have it load, modify, and start the server

[olive garden]

so paper doesn't have a config option to reduce TPS

paper sucks

bye

[zealous wedge]

ok

[golden gust]

Trig

I hope you stub your toe

the goal time is in MinecraftServer or something

[olive garden]

I already stubbed it when I slipped on your dildo

that would trigger TPS catchup and warnings and stuff and idk

yes, I believe in miracles

[golden gust]

You only stubbed it? Jesus, with the size of that thing it could be in a road workers toolkit

I mean, wait, no, I don't have one

[olive garden]

👀

[spare venture]

Just add a thread sleep whenever you reach a certain amount of players

And slip it into your shitty jar

[olive garden]

on my test server the peak player count was 2

when would I add the limit?

[magic river]

Change the CPU governor so it doesn't ramp up

[spare venture]

3

[olive garden]

okay

[magic river]

Or, if you're on Windows, change the power profile to battery saving

[golden gust]

Yea, get your ideal performance AND save the environment, that's two in one

[spare venture]

Would a plugin be able to do that if the server was ran on root

[magic river]

Yes, a plugin can do anything

[spare venture]

I forget what all goes into changing the scaling governor

[olive garden]

this laptop does that by itself

[spare venture]

Be like ReliableSite and put every server into power save scaling governor by default

[olive garden]

which also changed the sleep/hibernate settings before I figured it out

[spare venture]

Gotta save money somehow

[olive garden]

I was wondering why my laptop was hibernating when I explicitly told it not to

[magic river]

cat powersave > /sys/<forgot the path>/whatever

[spare venture]

Yeah having it in power save by default made me so angry

[olive garden]

I would rather not configure windows stuff through WSL

[spare venture]

And then having a BIOS limiting the clock speed too.., wtf

[magic river]

You can't actually change that via WSL

[left swift]

Wat did I just come back to

[magic river]

I was telling barty how to do it on Linux

[olive garden]

oh

apologies in that case

[spare venture]

Mhm I’ve done it before, don’t you have to reload something though?

[magic river]

Although those old school governors aren't really how modern Intel and AMD stuff works

Heck, on the latest Intel and AMD stuff I think the actual logic for when/how to change is all done by the CPU again and all the OS can do is set the upper and lower bounds

[spare venture]

Mhm

For example setting the upper and lower to 5GHz

[magic river]

That's how things started and they moved it to the OS because the OS could be smarter about it

Now they moved it back to the CPU because it can adjust faster

[ashen cliff]

The only difference between the powersave and performance governor on Intel are downclocking.
Still won't hit single core Turbo, like ever.

Or it just breaks and you loose a whole 0.1Ghz:

[magic river]

powersave and performance are trying to do things the OS isn't allowed to do anymore, afaik

So they're not actually doing anything

[ashen cliff]

Correct.

They just set the min freq.

[magic river]

Oh they did patch them to do that at least?

[ashen cliff]

They always did that AFAIK.

[magic river]

They used to read that from the CPU, not set it

[ashen cliff]

But that's all they do now.

Things I need: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-TurboSched-V4
Things I can't have: ^

[robust tiger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7qWAuFyXV4

[magic river]

People on reddit are suggesting folks by prebuilt systems from Dell and such these days instead of trying to build their own, it's crazy

[ashen cliff]

Well. You can't buy parts in some places for that price.

[magic river]

Because OEM parts are almost as good as stock AMD/nvidia parts and if you want an AMD CPU or any recent GPU getting a system with that stuff from Dell or HP is just about the only place you can get it other than ebay

[ashen cliff]

We have a system integrator here buy all 30X0 cards.... Now good luck.

[upper flicker]

I know people buying "gaming" prebuilts just to strip out the processor or the gpu and then resell it

low supply makes people do crazy things

[worn crest]

New cave system is weird 😅 from heigh -64 to 256 + 64 😅

[upper flicker]

that's just vanilla too, datapacks can take it much further in both directions

be curious to see the storage changes needed for all of this

[worn crest]

Yeah but lowest heigh -64 and not 0

Hopefully not more the zstd 😅 if the chunks get higher the storage booms 😅

[magic river]

ooh, this would be a good time for them to switch to zstd for region compression

They'd have to ship it and that's native libraries so kind of a pain but they have to do it for other stuff anyway

[golden gust]

I waaannnnaaa say that we've asked them on it a few times

maybe we gotta go pretty plz again as a reminder next time I remember

[drowsy urchin]

But why did they choose -64?

[magic river]

Oh someone made a port https://github.com/airlift/aircompressor/tree/master/src/main/java/io/airlift/compress/zstd

[magic river]

So they could make it deeper without breaking command blocks

They wanted the default underground to be 64 blocks taller so they could do fun things with 3D biomes underground but they'd need to shift all the blocks up 64 blocks when you update your server and then all your command block minigames would need to be updated too

[drowsy urchin]

Oh

[warm anchor]

Will it be huge headache?

[golden gust]

depends on what they mess with, I doubt it, they can do changes like that without ripping the entire codebase apart around there

[twin lagoon]

snappy is an interesting one too

[brave radish]

"v important"... but not important enough for "very"

[unkempt drift]

ugh... got an issue where it says 'cannot infer type arguments` but intellij seems to think it should be able to and suggests removing the type argument

[golden gust]

worked before you broked it

[cosmic raft]

Ignore IntelliJ in that case

[alpine pier]

Hey Hey.. any suggestions for a debian 10 / minecraft monitoring software? i just found Grafana which looks pretty good

[golden gust]

If you're working on paper or something, make sure that you have the decomp tree in place

otherwise, god knows, glhf

[unkempt drift]

nah, not paper

I think its because I'm collecting to an enum map of a list, but supplying a new array list which doesnt have a type so it doesnt know what type the list is supposed to be

[golden gust]

probs, gj on breaking stuff

[left swift]

Cat broke it

[upper flicker]

Cat ends every response with “otherwise god help you”, “otherwise god speed”, “otherwise glhf”

[limpid comet]

kashike has changed me

now i use klass

instead of clazz

[lean kiln]

do cla$$

[upper flicker]

kash is wrong

clazz sounds cooler

That is all the reason I need

[golden gust]

psh

klazz

2 in 1

[upper flicker]

:galaxy_brain:

[zealous wedge]

@unkempt drift old javac is bad at type inference, but intellij is not stuck in the past

use jdk 11 with --release 8 and you'll have fewer problems :p

[olive marlin]

Grafana is just for making graphs from your metrics.
You can install Prometheus exporter on your server and then use Prometheus to collect metrics, grafana to display them, alert manager to automatically notify you about some thresholds (high CPU etc),...

It works in pull configuration - Prometheus downloads data from exporters you point it at.
But you can also go with something like influx etc and push data to it.

[ancient bolt]

klass is the canadian spelling

[golden gust]

Ah, canaderp

[olive marlin]

What about klasz?

[golden gust]

This is not the place to advertise, you'd also have to be dumb to advertise a server to a bunch of server owners and devs.

[ornate sundial]

Where can I advertise

[lean kiln]

https://ads.google.com/home/#!/

[mental meadow]

lol

I suggest reading the rules

[cedar spade]

klasshike

or clazzheek

[mighty storm]

Made me laugh, thank you

[golden gust]

ITT: We find out chew is easy

[limber knot]

What happened

[golden gust]

easiest way to a womans heart is to make her laugh

;P

[limber knot]

Discord chew has no heart

[mighty storm]

😡

[warm anchor]

Wut

[golden gust]

I shall replace it with cat poop instead

[limber knot]

what, and irchew has two hearts?

[warm anchor]

Cat ate them

[limber knot]

Least I have one to begin with 😤

[golden gust]

Be glad you're not ginger, I guess

Imagine being heartless and soul less

[limber knot]

Isn't that an ale

you don't need to be ginger to be soulless

[mighty storm]

alemao

[golden gust]

Well, yea, but, being ginger is like the "made in china" stamp for the soulless

chances are if it doesn't have the sticker it was made there to some capacity, just, if you got the sticker, you know 100%

[magic river]

I gave in and bought a PS5 third party

It's not from a scalper although it's not a ton cheaper than if it was

[mighty storm]

okay what is the hype around the ps5 there's like 4 games

[magic river]

Some guy bought a PS5, controller, media remote, and Spiderman then after he got it set up and played a couple times decided it he wasn't going to play it enough, was too much money

It's costing me about $100 more than if I could buy all of those things new at retail

I want the Demon's Souls remake

[mental meadow]

I would never buy a PS, I won a PS4 once and tbh I played like an hour but the amount of games is just not really that cool and the only cool thing was VR, but BeatSaber without Mods or custom content sucks

Sold it for 250€ tho 😄

[golden gust]

Not really a console gamer tbqh, I don't got the like co-ordination to use a joypad for shooter games, etc

[magic river]

I have a PS4 Pro, I've played at least 100 hours on it

[golden gust]

Used to use my mates machine all the time for plex, etc, which I could just use a pi for :L

[magic river]

That's a lot for me, on PC I probably do about 100 hours a year

[golden gust]

i gotta get away from my pc more, but, I don't even got a TV yet, and keep justifying not getting one coz am always at my pc anyways, which, yea...

and my landlord seems to love to get the couches which you'd expect from like a student dorm common area

who needs cussion

[prime hawk]

hi, i'm sorry if it's really improper to send that message here, but I'm a little desperate. Does anyone know the formula for the magnetic moment in DC motors?

[spiral robin]

lmao

[prime hawk]

or if the magnetic moment can be calculated with the u = I * A?

[spiral robin]

we all been there

[prime hawk]

I've been on 12 different Polish servers, then on 12 different American servers, and everywhere, everyone is sleeping

and it's extremely crucial as I'm presenting about DC motors in the morning

there is torque and induction so there must be a magnetic moment

[limber knot]

welcome to the homework zone

oh wait no

[mental meadow]

uuuugh

physics

[prime hawk]

there are no homework zones available right now

every physician in the world is sleeping

[magic river]

I don't know, look in your textbook 😛

[prime hawk]

there is no mention of that as it's not the basic stuff

[magic river]

I know how to troubleshoot a brushed DC motor and how to make a really shitty one from scratch but not the physics formulas for how they work 😛

[prime hawk]

I know almost all formulas (I need) for the brushed DC motors

except for this one

[mental meadow]

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magmom.html
maybe this helps idk

[prime hawk]

the thing is, I calculated a formula, but I'm not fully sure it's correct

[tropic flame]

oh i see that the GPL discussion has ended already

took quite a while lol

[prime hawk]

it does in some way, thanks

[mental meadow]

the wonders of google

😄

[zealous wedge]

you're so talented aurora

[mental meadow]

no u!!!

[zealous wedge]

no u!

and i bet you can read too!

[magic river]

moment = magnitude * area of the loop?

[zealous wedge]

we love aurora because she can both read and use google

[mental meadow]

yes but u r actually talented

[zealous wedge]

so r uuuuuuu

[prime hawk]

i mean, it wasnt too much of a help, but still better than none

I've calculated this formula, it's not like i've done no research

[zealous wedge]

you are the one who came in here asking for homework help :p

[magic river]

Assuming I understand what the symbols in your original guess are I think you got it right

[prime hawk]

it's either that or 1/2 of the area

[magic river]

Unless it's special in a DC motor for some reason

[spiral robin]

@zealous wedge

[prime hawk]

when you use the second equation: Torque = u(magnetic moment) x B(induction)

[zealous wedge]

aber

[spiral robin]

[prime hawk]

I am, and I'm thankful for all help, it's just, it's not like I've done no research with google already

[prime hawk]

and from that I get half of the area

[mental meadow]

what should i do now
play league
watch anime
play overwatch
watch scrubs
lay in bed and watch anime
lay in bed and watch scrubs
make something to eat
sit around and be bored

[spiral robin]

All

[cunning raft]

OW

[prime hawk]

stand up and watch anime

[magic river]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment#Amperian_loop_model

[spiral robin]

@cunning raft

[golden gust]

I vote 5 || but replace anime with hentai||

[mental meadow]

I just finished zombieland sage and it was epic
the songs are a banger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3o79aHSppw

[magic river]

ooh right, anime, I think I have a couple to watch

Is that the show with zombie idols?

[golden gust]

I'm only literally years outdated with anime \o/

[warm anchor]

Lol the rap song lol

[mental meadow]

yes!! it is awesome

[spiral robin]

Aikar rap

[golden gust]

Toradora!

[warm anchor]

Was like a surprise but actually good

[mental meadow]

Toradora? okay :3

[warm anchor]

Wait since then is zzcat a weeb or he only watch normie anime

[mental meadow]

na he is a weeb

[warm anchor]

[mental meadow]

just tries to hide it

[golden gust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFOuaVVou0E

[magic river]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok2b0MrpA_0

[warm anchor]

Ok he’s a weeb

[mental meadow]

but the question is will toradora make me cry

[golden gust]

Erm, potentially, probably

it's mostly comedy

[mental meadow]

i want something that doesnt make me cry but i want something that makes me cry

you understand?

[golden gust]

maybe a sad moment near towards the end, i forget

[tropic flame]

i see downloaded anime, i approve

[mental meadow]

https://anilist.co/user/AuroraRainbow/

[golden gust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We_uZ7-_HmM

[tropic flame]

rn I've been finishing the Attack on Titan OVAs before going into season 3 because I didn't even realize they existed LOL

I'm watching Lost Girls now

[mental meadow]

To be completely fair, I've tried out streaming. I went ahead and used a VPN with Netflix to get more content, and then I've tried the same with Crunchyroll. My issue is that 1. they don't have the anime I want to watch 2. I don't want to have to use a vpn every time i want to watch something 3. they started censoring one i was watching halfway through

[golden gust]

https://myanimelist.net/animelist/electronicboy

[magic river]

aurora isn't a real weeb, her plan to watch doesn't have 200 things on it

[mental meadow]

i joined the site like a week ago

recommend me stuff to put on there xD

[tropic flame]

https://myanimelist.net/animelist/Hyphen102

[tropic flame]

yeeaah that sucks

for me i like to have the content available if my internet goes down so

[mental meadow]

I watched Assassination Classroom on Netflix, that was epic, but that was about everything they had

If my internet goes down so do I

[magic river]

I used to download stuff even if it was on Netflix because my download cap was a bitch and it usually took me three streams of something to finish watching it

[mental meadow]

Also I named my NAS sodiumsulfide and I'm offended no one has commented on that joke

[magic river]

I'd fall asleep or get distracted

[golden gust]

We're all IT people

[tropic flame]

honestly same but that's why I like to have offline games and stuff to do when it does

[golden gust]

odd jokes is our thing

[magic river]

Sodium sulfide is Na2S

[mental meadow]

I know

[golden gust]

I got a 4g modem thing and named the hotspot ChineseSpyDevice or something

[mental meadow]

but it still makes me giggle

that reminds me

I haven't put googly eyes on the nas yet

gotta do that

[golden gust]

When I was living with a bunch of peeps, my computers wifi was named SecretServices

[magic river]

I forgot to rename my phone's hotspot to FBI SURVEILLANCE VAN, thanks for the reminder

[golden gust]

😄

[tropic flame]

i got a huawei phone, should i change its bluetooth name to XiJinPingTrackingDevice

wait why did i even call it bluetooth name, it's just the device name lol

do people still even use bluetooth for file sharing?

[mental meadow]

I think I'm gonna lay in bed and watch scrubs for the 25th time or something, I started today and finished a season already

[tropic flame]

i remember when that was the thing in early 2010s

[golden gust]

considering how slow BT is, no

Like, idefk what files you'd send to one another on a phone

[tropic flame]

back then people would share music and pictures

[golden gust]

Like, unless you're one of those niche media people, all the stuff you'd want is generally on a cheap music subscription

[tropic flame]

that's about everything they'd share (smartphones weren't really a thing for most people though)

[golden gust]

and then for stuff like pics, you just throw it on insta, or snap it or email it or something

Like, just sending it over the internet is muuuch easier than pissing around with bluetooth these days

[tropic flame]

i guess

[golden gust]

holy shit, I remember the days of IR

Nothing like sending files to your mates during break by placing them on the desk or benches and praying no moron came running past and hit them outta line with one another

[mental meadow]

my first smartphone had a IR sender thingy and it was so awesome, I could use it as a TV remote

[golden gust]

Listen here, Prof

[tropic flame]

i don't have mobile data so when I want someone to send me stuff but I'm outside home i just tell them I'll see it later

[golden gust]

You better get the fuck off my lawn

[mental meadow]

You getter bet the fuck off my lawn

[tropic flame]

sometimes it's pictures of us and i kinda feel tempted to ask them to turn on bluetooth but the shame is too much LOL

[olive marlin]

I remember IR too, though thankfully that didn't last long.

[mental meadow]

Cat likes lombok

[golden gust]

i will find you

and shit on your rug

[tropic flame]

ok but people unironically used infrared?

like, infrared even worked??

[olive marlin]

Yes.

[golden gust]

Yes

[mental meadow]

var myLawn```

[golden gust]

Like, bearing in mind that phones had IR before bluetooth

[tropic flame]

all I've used was bluetooth back in those days because infrared wouldn't do anything

i mean

[golden gust]

it worked, but, depends on the phone as to how well it worked

[tropic flame]

yeah i remember phones having both at some point so

meh

[golden gust]

some in general where trash

[olive marlin]

You always placed phones on steady surface, pressed send and didn't touch it until it finished.

[golden gust]

some failed if the room was too bright, etc

many types of bulbs also interferred with them, etc

[olive marlin]

I don't remember having issues with IR.

[golden gust]

Like, it worked if you knew how to get it to work, but, bluetooth was such a blessing

[olive marlin]

Though I wasn't and still am not a media person.

[tropic flame]

i bet it was

holy

[golden gust]

Yea, never had any real issues with it myself, there was one super sunny day where it wasn't too happy, but, otherwise bar being unbearably slow it was okay

that ship sailed by pretty fast, tbqh

[olive marlin]

People used to send ringtones to each other all the time.

[tropic flame]

YES

THIS

[olive marlin]

Yeah.

[tropic flame]

man

that couple dozen songs my cousin would send to me through bluetooth

amazing times

[olive marlin]

I used Bluetooth the other day. Was surprised at how awful slow it was.

[golden gust]

remember when the days of obtaining new music was to wait till the song came on MTV or something and grab out the recorder?

[mental meadow]

no I'm not ancient

[olive marlin]

I'm glad I have a shared folder on my whone which synchronizes with my laptops etc over wifi.

So much faster!

[golden gust]

yea

y'all are spoilt af

Just imagine

[mental meadow]

how old are you even cat

i assume around 200

[golden gust]

the horrors we had to go through to make somebody wanna invest their time into making all that stuff

25, 26?

I think 26

[tropic flame]

mfw

[mental meadow]

dude I'm only 4 years younger

[cunning raft]

don't let him deceive you

that's in cat years

[mental meadow]

I was just thinking to myself will I be like that in 4 years and then I remembered No, I'm already worse

[magic river]

That means I was 12 when you were born

[tropic flame]

ok my brain is bugging now

[magic river]

👴

[tropic flame]

math was never my strong

[mental meadow]

At least I still was born before 2000

[magic river]

Barely

[mental meadow]

well

one year and a few months to spare but yea barely

[golden gust]

God, i remember when my grandparents got cable

[mental meadow]

so basically cat is 120

[cunning raft]

yes

[magic river]

SEGA Channel!

[cunning raft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALa8yoZdJUY

[magic river]

First time I saw Star Wars was on Laserdisc

[unkempt drift]

hey me too

still have like 30 laserdiscs

[golden gust]

what's laserdisc?

does it come in black and white?

[unkempt drift]

its a massive double sided dvd (or it looks like it)

[golden gust]

(jk, I watch techmoan 😄 )

first video player device we ever got was a VCR

We had like this old af top loader

also had this old tv which had the slider for the volume

but, the slider was basically oxidized tf and was far before I knew about that type stuff, so, adjusting the volume required a meaty pair a balls to do if everybody was sleeping

Being a council estate family meant that everything we had was generally stuff we'd had for yeeaaaars or 2nd hand type deals or basically cheap shit

Like, asda used to sell VHS records which where cheap af but lasted like a year or two tops

[spare venture]

Never had to deal with laserdisc but a lot of VHS

[golden gust]

ended up basically borrowing the recorder I had at my grandparents and that thing lasted for years

[magic river]

Laserdisc was basically "what if we tried to use CD technology for videos?"

[spare venture]

Then along came DVD?

[magic river]

To put a video on a CD you have to make the CD the size of an LP

Oh, and make it double sided

Then DVD came along, yeah

Then MPEG4 came along and you could fit a decent quality movie on a normal CD

aka DivX aka XviD

[golden gust]

and now we watch all our shows off somebody elses computer

[magic river]

Yeah most of the stuff I watch is on the butt

[golden gust]

I remember when like 256MB thumb drives costed a nice chunk of change

[magic river]

I think I had one of those for college

Might have been smaller

[crystal compass]

is there a block i can worldedit so I can stick itemframes on it but people can passthrough ?

[magic river]

Can you put item frames on barrier blocks?

[crystal compass]

yeah but I want people to be able to walk through.

[magic river]

Oh, right

Uh, no, I don't think that's a thing

[crystal compass]

hmm. I swear i've seen it recently

[magic river]

Unless you can stick them on vines or something

[wraith trail]

You can make it happen

how the best way to do it though, idk

[magic river]

iirc the limits on placing them are stricter than the check it does to decide if it should pop off

[wraith trail]

you can just /summon minecraft:item_frame and it will show up

[magic river]

So you might not be able to place it on vines by hand but if you get it there it might stay

[wraith trail]

I guess it does pop after 30 seconds or so, so you'd have to prevent that

[crystal compass]

they fall off tho haha

[magic river]

Can you set that no tick flag on them?

Ah, there is a Fixed flag

[golden gust]

There's a Fixed boolean on the entity

[magic river]

You can just put them in the air if you set that

[void void]

who else is using PlayerPoints

what is the variable, plz help

[brave radish]

what is https://aquifermc.org?

just made up?

[golden gust]

old org which owned waterfall/travertine

[brave radish]

ah

[zealous wedge]

so efficient, naming something aquifer years before MC got aquifers

[limber knot]

rip aquifermc

was a nice taste of xenforo moderation

[brave radish]

what would y'all recommend as a good java/kotlin project? I'm still learning

[left swift]

that one

[void void]

anyone try out the new snapshot yet?

[brave radish]

yeah

there was a discussion ab it earlier

[void void]

i'm trying to setup a server that autodownloads the latest snapshot each day, but I think the url also changes each day.

[golden gust]

you'd need to use the launcher api for it or something

[zealous wedge]

https://launchermeta.mojang.com/mc/game/version_manifest_v2.json

[worn ember]

Cat go sleep dude

[brave radish]

what time is it there?

[worn ember]

Almost like 4am lol

[void void]

i am looking in the json

ahh so if I grep that first file for the first instance of a snapshot and then grep the second file for the first server.jar it will give me the url for the newest server.jar

[zealous wedge]

something like that

well, grep is also not a json parser

perhaps you want jq

[void void]

what if I'm incredibly dumb

and have never used jq before

[zealous wedge]

it has quite a bit of documentation written

[brave radish]

then you look up "parse JSON <insert language here>"

[void void]

okay i am reading the documentation

[brave radish]

does IRC show replies?

[wraith trail]

yes.

[brave radish]

can IRC users reply themselves?

[wraith trail]

no.

[brave radish]

k

is it an actual feature or does it just show like

re: is it an actual feature or does it just show like: this

or something

[golden gust]

it's an actual feature

[wraith trail]

looks like this:

<DiscordBot> Reply to "thesciencewalrus: That only applies to world generation iirc. Use the /difficulty command"
<DiscordBot> <S​ne​ak​yn​in​ja​> When i do that it only set it for the over world not the nether or the end

[brave radish]

cool

[upbeat kelp]

how much data java editon might use

[spiral robin]

7

[upbeat kelp]

mb?

[limpid comet]

just 7

[golden gust]

depends

not something people generally care to take a measure of outside of spotting it when they loop up at their network monitor or whatever

[void void]

i am excited that i came up with this jq '.' version_manifest_v2.json | grep -oPm1 "https.*json" parsed.json | xargs wget

to automatically download the 2nd json file

[limpid comet]

jq is so epic

[golden gust]

curl https://launchermeta.mojang.com/mc/game/version_manifest_v2.json | jq -r '.["versions"][1]["url"]'

[zealous wedge]

not zero-indexed?

is this discount lua

[wraith trail]

you would want 0 to get the latest version

[golden gust]

ah

curl https://launchermeta.mojang.com/mc/game/version_manifest_v2.json | jq -r '.["versions"][0]["url"]' | xargs curl | jq -r '.["downloads"]["server"]["url"]' | xargs curl -O

one liners ftw

[zealous wedge]

we know

[left swift]

Very cool mr snoopa

[untold copper]

EXAMS ARE OVER :DDDD

POGGERS

[woven otter]

Very cool mr snoopa

[untold copper]

THANK YOU DUCK UR COOL TOO :3

[upper flicker]

lets not go crazy

[obsidian flame]

Very cool mr snoopa

[void void]

OKAY ZZZcat

I just saw your improvement

but I in the mean time I made the script check for a new version and then download only if it's new

It's like 20 lines though

cause it also warns the users on the server about incoming reboot

[upper flicker]

make sure to run with sudo

[void void]

is that the real matt yokan

impostor*

yoo i'm half way to cursed

[cosmic raft]

ok

who at atlassian was drunk?

https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CLOUD-6999

"Let's stop selling Server licenses and do cloud-only, but not support custom domains yet!"

[golden gust]

The entire thing is just a shit way to do it, tbqh

[upper flicker]

I guess they've just reached that size

[vivid ivy]

lol the official minecraft discord is wrecking havoc

they closed the self-advertising channel and people are going nuts

[spiral robin]

[warm anchor]

the channel was NEVER for advertisment

good for them to finally do something about that shithole

it is for people to FIND PEOPLE to play with THEM

it was also filled with low key pedo looking to play with kids

[vivid ivy]

Agreed. I just called it self-advertisement channel for people who aren't aware of thr channel, was faster.

[warm anchor]

as they look for players in certain ages and is CREEPY as fuck

[vivid ivy]

I only knew it was filled with bots and spam.

[warm anchor]

yeah

make sense they added that moderation thing in the client

[wraith trail]

isn't that basically the whole minecraft discord though?

[warm anchor]

now they are cleaning the shithole on Discord.

If you reach level 10, there is a special regular channel

less spammy but the average age is still Snoopa

[zealous wedge]

yeah cuz nobody else would interact enough on that discord to get to level 10

[spiral robin]

imagine it would be pretty insane to @.everyone there, 700k people

[zealous wedge]

at-everyone and watch discord notifications keel over for a moment

[spiral robin]

yeah lol

[warm anchor]

It takes special kinda patient to get talk there

[spiral robin]

discord goes down for 10 mins

[vivid ivy]

I was posting in the lfg a bunch of times, if you're selective you can find like 1-3 mature, reasonable people in a week

[zealous wedge]

"in a week"

[warm anchor]

yeah I dojt get paid enough

for that lol

[vivid ivy]

I met some genuinely cool people from there who have become a valuable part of my community

Quality > quantity

[potent fossil]

halp serbur sending bad packeterinos https://static.jacobandersen.dev/shared/😓🌕😶🦅🎂.png

is this an evil plugin

[spiral robin]

cute new avatar

[zealous wedge]

idk do the packets have the evil bit set?

[potent fossil]

my client seems to think it's related to this https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/issues/5173

cause we have a shit load of stuff being teleported around

[warm anchor]

someone from paper-help was also asking about that

[golden gust]

highly unlikely to be relevant to that at all

"New fragment overlaps old data" would imply some issue with the network somewhere

I mean, am not a pro here, but, that's deeper than the server, server just poops out a stream of data almost

[untold copper]

rip minecraft

[cosmic raft]

I blame that on mods

[untold copper]

i blame it on optifine XD

[spiral robin]

kashike

[cosmic raft]

hi aber

[vivid ivy]

I never had issues with sodium but seems to clash with some of your other mods

[spiral robin]

hi

[untold copper]

hi

[spiral robin]

No

[meager tusk]

hi

[minor badge]

best idriz in the whole world?

[meager tusk]

best proxi in the whole world ?

[golden gust]

and literally the worst too

[spiral robin]

@meager tusk

[vivid ivy]

I love this

The thread is so golden

[meager tusk]

it's mc-market