It's easier to crack something than trying to protect it
#general
vernal moth
limber knotBOT
in a community based around reverse-engineering obf java software
and the ones that crack my shit even leave in my metrics because I can't disable the plugin lol
vernal moth
If a computer can read a jar, so can I
mossy vessel
Fosho, can't apply this to every one ofc, but those obfuscaties caused too much trouble for me in the past x-x
wide chasm
Cracking is so easy, it's funny
acoustic pilot
You can see that plugin developers who open source their stuff but paywall the Spigot downloads still make decent money.
limber knotBOT
I only send reminder messages to buy it when its cracked 
worn ember
if a computer can read binary, so can i
acoustic pilot
I don't know why more premium plugin devs don't take that approach
wide chasm
.class files are easy to read
limber knotBOT
you can do that
vernal moth
You can dump loaded classes
limber knotBOT
because most plugin devs don't have an established community buying the open source resource, Byteflux
there are tools to get partially-jit'd bytecode
vernal moth
I do that when ppl encrypt there plugins
limber knotBOT
and most think that their shit is unique and think that people could steal it
acoustic pilot
Yeah true, plugins like PlayerVault and mcMMO were well established before they went premium
vernal moth
In most cases it's easier to rewrite than to decompile and understand, lol
mossy vessel
Yeah, it mainly depends how you build your community.
If it's full with spoiled premium authors/customers you are lost. lol.
vernal moth
You should be
acoustic pilot
You absolutely should be lol
wide chasm
People think too highly of their stuff. There are people asking dev questions for their upcoming plugin that won't elaborate on their actual issue because "someone might steal the idea".
worn ember
make a good free plugin, get everyone to use it, paywall it, boom profit
vernal moth
Hangar sadly can't ban obfuscated plugins, but we will put up big scary banners
acoustic pilot
Yep, I've thought about reviving CombatTagPlus to do just that but then I realized I have other more important things to do 😛
limber knotBOT
lol
worn ember
do you really tho
limber knotBOT
had one of those "I need help but I don't want to share details because it's an extremely unique idea" ... "it's an among us clone" recentlry
acoustic pilot
😛
worn ember
limber knotBOT
yeah like most people have way more ideas than they can ever implement in their life
wide chasm
Ah yes an among us clone, very unique
acoustic pilot
Look at this unique thing I made by copying another thing
coarse lily
I rewrote most of CombatTagPlus
acoustic pilot
lol
limber knotBOT
my strategy is to keep talking about things i want to see and hope that someone steals the idea and does it nicely
worn ember
well they are, if they're good enough
limber knotBOT
so i don't have to spend time on it :D
coarse lily
But I was happy that the source was available. So thanks for that, Byteflux. :(
Er. :)
acoustic pilot
Nice, hopefully CombatTagPlus wasn't too troublesome for you to work with
No problem 🙂
wide chasm
if speed > 100:
ban
acoustic pilot
Yeah I miss Sudzzy, he really helped me make it what it is
mossy vessel
skript anticheat 
wide chasm
That's not valid skript though 🙂
vernal moth
"Community"
acoustic pilot
Most of the good anti-cheat is super private
limber knotBOT
and people wonder why most anti cheat plusin wont be approved as premium 👀
worn ember
they're 1.8 players what do you expect
wide chasm
the player's velocity is over 100
ban the player
would be more like it I think
coarse lily
No elytra in 1.8!
acoustic pilot
I'm surprised anyone even managed to write anti-cheat for elytras at all
worn ember
falls from cliff
Banned
wide chasm
"Only supports 1.8"
acoustic pilot
That seems like a nightmare to deal with
coarse lily
Elytra fucks with anti cheat a lot from what I’ve seen.
I haven’t really seen a good implementation to cover elytra
vernal moth
Aren't anticheats just security by obscurity?
wide chasm
I get it, I get it, I'll fix it.
player is wearing elytra
disable all checks
There you go.
acoustic pilot
Being open source has it's benefits but the downsides are definitely pronounced when it comes to anti-cheat
worn ember
https://youtu.be/LGrpsZ7BsQA me in my online classes
mossy vessel
NCP-fork is oss and seems to work decent from what I've heard
golden gust
anti-cheat's in general are always cat and mouse
acoustic pilot
If you have a large community supporting it, then yeah. That would be one benefit of having an OSS anti-cheat
golden gust
being closed source obfuscated to hell improves the timeframe between most people getting it
vernal moth
I really would like to write an anticheat at some point
But then again, I would have to deal with that community then
Sooooooo
Yeah
Let's not
golden gust
But, that generally means that you're limiting the number of people who can join the chase on your side
acoustic pilot
Yeah PVP community is toxic
vernal moth
I just pretend that part of the community doesn't exist
worn ember
@acoustic pilot WTF STFU WERE NOT TOXIC U DUM FUK
mossy vessel
Meh, if you publish your anti cheat and people start using it you automatically need to maintain it and take care of xy of daily reports smh
wide chasm
I thought that all "hardcore advanced" pvpers would be on 1.8, 1.9 pvp would be sort of alright, but it's still toxic.
mossy vessel
You can bypass those modular clients still
cedar sky
babaoey
mossy vessel
Not something you would/should rely on in prod.
acoustic pilot
I know they also have a server plugin too, not sure how the client mod and server plugin interact though
limber knotBOT
people should just stop trying to do pvp in games lol
cedar sky
do you thing mojang will release versions above 1.16.4 like 1.16.5?
vernal moth
Balion is a traditional Punkbuster style one
I was able to intercept their server communication in an early version so I could spoof
They since rewrote that tho
limber knotBOT
no, ok, they execute arbitrary code sent by the server to verify integraty
acoustic pilot
Just do what Epic Games does and make your anti-cheat a rootkit 😄
limber knotBOT
of course you can still cheat there but it becomes harder if your anti cheat runs on a very basic operating system layer like hardware drivers
acoustic pilot
One of the many reasons I don't play any Epic games 😛
acoustic pilot
Valorant and some others too, I believe
limber knotBOT
just don't do competitive online pvp, done
people should build more houses in minecraft
vernal moth
Valorant is generally a really well made game technically
It runs on fucking everything with amazing performance
acoustic pilot
Looks like a great game, but the anti-cheat turns me off
vernal moth
It's insane
limber knotBOT
(or design your game in ways that make cheating harder e.g. rocket league can't have an aimbot by design lol)
limber knotBOT
yeah it's a good game, never going to install it though lol
golden gust
at the end of the day, client side anti-cheat is a tool on the users end sending data to a server
all somebody needs to do is figure out what data needs to be sent and how, bypassing that stuff is easy
Well, "easy"
depends on how they encrypt it
limber knotBOT
streaming like stadia and stuff is the future for competitive games tbh
golden gust
a native lib is gonna be harder to pick out than a java one
?ban @vivid egret This is not the place to advertise.
leaden oxideBOT
Expora9#9052 was banned | This is not the place to advertise.
vernal moth
Yeah, tell that to every player not in NA or EU, just relocate ^^
limber knotBOT
yes, that's the money part
vernal moth
Just ping any brasilian server and imagine how ppl access stuff over here
300ms ping NP
limber knotBOT
but then again, people will just start cheating with image recognitation software ¯_(ツ)_/¯
iron zephyr
I need to be able to talk to my mods without the mortals seeing us
And messaging is getting old
Any simple way to do this?
limber knotBOT
or hardware lol
iron zephyr
Not adding lots of new plugins is high on my agenda
mossy vessel
Yeah, tell that to every player not in NA or EU, just relocate ^^
Nooo, I don't want to share my fiber x-x
vernal moth
Have a staff channel on discord? Lol
iron zephyr
Can essentials chat handle it?
limber knotBOT
probably not
acoustic pilot
I've never used DiscordSRV but I assume it would have some chat bridging thing with access control
iron zephyr
Okay, so I need another plugin
Ty, that's what I was trying to ascertain
I can use Google, I just don't like adding plugins to our already bloated server xD
acoustic pilot
You'd be surprised how little overhead a moderately well designed plugin produces 😛
vernal moth
Man, why is this movie so fucking boring
It's produced by ridley scott, I thought that ment something
But yaaawwwwn
iron zephyr
That sounds like a lot of work, and a lot of skill
limber knotBOT
just make sure it's open source, that filters most shit out ;D
vernal moth
Writing a staff chat plugin takes like an hour at most
limber knotBOT
well I DID say "most"
acoustic pilot
The worst open source plugin I've seen is ASkyBlock 😛
BSkyBlock is a huge improvement, but damn that command class in ASkyBlock gives me nightmares
woven otter
ewww I have to agree with you there
vernal moth
Of course it is
golden gust
popular means nothing
acoustic pilot
It's like one command class that's 2-3k lines lol
woven otter
ASkyBlock is horrifying
golden gust
Most "popular" plugins are generally meh
Either a mixture of their age or just general "this project got too big for my skillset"
true canyon
cries in PEX
mossy vessel
3000 lines, seems solid.
iron zephyr
Nice haha
I'm just gonna code my server's core functionality in Skript
That'll be better
acoustic pilot
I'm sure the creator is a fine person, but just that ASkyBlock was poorly made, probably just new to development at the time
iron zephyr
🤣
golden gust
I had people cap a high-endish CPU from the time at 70 players thanks to skript
on 1.8.8.
iron zephyr
I can't even type that with a straight face
limber knotBOT
I mean askyblock is dead so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
mossy vessel
ASkyBlock was a one man project to my knowledge, the new one is a team project afaik.
visual egret
I'm just gonna code my server's core functionality in Skript
what is the servers core functionality?
acoustic pilot
Yeah the new one, BSkyBlock, is an improvement. I still don't like that they use their own addon system instead of Bukkit plugin system tho
iron zephyr
Skript is.... something. It is amazing how many plugins I see on SpigotMC, and say to myself "Wow, that actually looks cool," only to click and find out it is WRITTEN IN SKRIPT
Like, they shouldn't be allowed to masquerade as plugins
cosmic raft
really does amaze me here:
cosmic raft
Korobi's full db, since 2014, is 715M when exported
that's including over 17 million chat entries
vernal moth
Skript is cool actually. And considering how de functionality most servers actually have......
visual egret
yoh what?
iron zephyr
what *is* the servers core functionality?
Yeah, pretty much what ok said. xD My original question was about having separate chat channels for staff
vernal moth
Korobi's full db, since 2014, is 715M when exported
Compressed?
cosmic raft
@golden gust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxaTAFXgykU
iron zephyr
there is a skript category
I usually go through google, so I miss that haha
Like that ^ I thought, cool concept. But no, Skript
iron zephyr
Omg
golden gust
The life of DED
waxen panther
phew
golden gust
it's a tragical comedy
vernal moth
Not the councilor, it's boooring DED
cosmic raft
.8 should DarkEyeDragon watch Twilight?
limber knotBOT
shakes the magic 8 ball... It is decidedly so
woven otter
wow that's
iron zephyr
My b, back to movies
woven otter
fast moving chat
cosmic raft
?warn @iron zephyr Spamming
leaden oxideBOT
Dawnhunter#9691 has been warned. || Spamming
mossy vessel
It would be way less annoying if discord would render embeds immediately x-x
visual egret
🇫
iron zephyr
I'll go be quiet now
visual egret
ive heard of (kauri?)
https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/kauri-anticheat.83910/ this one looks ok-ish, im not good with anticheats
iron zephyr
NCP is supposed to be OK with the right config
It lagged our server like nothing else tho
golden gust
anti-cheats basically have a "short" lifecycle
e.g. AAC was top dog, and now it's shit
matrix was cool, and now it's shit
etc, etc, etc
visual egret
watchdog is...
worn ember
cat was cool and is now shit
golden gust
Issue is that the devs come up with a unique way of like one specific attack, and it thrives, but then new attacks are found which they either don't hit or fall behind on dealing with new vectors
Issue in part is that many of them just become so horifically heavy on the server performance, that they're often one of the first things which stand out on timing reports
worn ember
just fork it and make it better then kappa oh wait they're all closed source
iron zephyr
I'm not a developer, but my guess is that anticheats quickly get out of hand and become super bloated
To be replaced by the next cool, new, trimmer anticheat
worn ember
just run an anarchy server and dont worry about it
iron zephyr
^ 😄 My server is so small that I don't care anymore
I'm sure half of them are hacking
worn ember
thats what she said
iron zephyr
.... first get roasted by the modbot, then by DarkEyeDragon. Not my day🤣
acoustic pilot
It's amusing to get the occasional anarchy server owner in here asking how to revert a dupe fix lol
upper flicker
wow byteflux is here
worn ember
and make it delete all server files
acoustic pilot
I'm everywhere!
mossy vessel
It's amusing to get the occasional anarchy server owner in here asking how to re...
Doesn't the "occasional" owner run 1.8 anyway? lol
acoustic pilot
Anarchy servers are typically up to date I think
Or at least a more modern version
olive marlin
Or just use Proxi's gib plugin.
limber knotBOT
"but muh spam click"
acoustic pilot
Yeah it's very easy to optimize and has a large PvP following
limber knotBOT
thank god my community doesn't do PVP lol
visual egret
"but muh spam click"
1.8 pvp has much more to do than spam clicking lol
worn ember
i wouldnt run a minecraft server even if they paid me for it
acoustic pilot
But 1.16 isn't impossible to optimize either, I've seen some servers with private optimizations making them able to hold like 200 players
golden gust
issue is the time dedication to it and the whole "must be maintainable" aspect
mossy vessel
As long as they can support themself and don't ask for xy old version in here, they can run whatever they want 
acoustic pilot
I saw that ViaVersion is going to be dropping support for 1.8 soon
Not sure how soon
But it generates a message now on 1.8 saying it's dropping support
golden gust
inb4 somebody creates ViaVersionPayVayPay
acoustic pilot
No doubt someone will fork it and add compatibility lol
Just the way it goes in this community 😛
worn ember
ViaPayPal
coarse lily
1.16.4 is better than 1.15 was.
true canyon
Slow improvements since 1.13/14. Sloooow.
coarse lily
There’s a lot more “stuff” since 1.8.
true canyon
I saw that ViaVersion is going to be dropping support for 1.8 soon
Won't anyone think of the children pvp users
acoustic pilot
I haven't even played the game properly since 1.8, I'm so lost I don't know this game any more 😛
true canyon
cries in still supporting 1.7.10 for a plugin
acoustic pilot
Yeah, it's overwhelming
coarse lily
So much new stuff.
mossy vessel
I would always prefer maintaining 1.16 over 1.8/1.7/1.2.5/whatnot I've been tortured with in the past.
true canyon
Seems there's some pvp purists who think 1.8 was too much a deviation, ok
coarse lily
I spent the first hour saying “WTF IS THAT??” over and over.
ashen axle
is this the right server/channel to ask why java doesnt think vault exists even tho i imported it?
acoustic pilot
If you were around the community when 1.8 released, it was a semi-shitstorm within the PvP community
coarse lily
I never got the appeal of pvp
coarse lily
But I know lots of folks love it.
olive marlin
is this the right server/channel to ask why java doesnt think vault exists even ...
Developing plugin? Then #paper-dev
true canyon
is this the right server/channel to ask why java doesnt think vault exists even ...
More luck in the dev channel 🙂
true canyon
Bu-bu-but my auto clicker, Byteflux! My autoclicker matters!
I paid all my allowance for this mouse that auto clicks at exactly the max speed the game will accept.
Mom and dad say I have to use it or they'll take it away, like they took away the bunny I really wanted and then neglected!
acoustic pilot
I swear, I'm really clicking at 30 clicks per second, my finger is just that fast.
true canyon
The technique is click really fast 😄
visual egret
ive fooled my 1.8 obsessed friends to beleive my spleef server runs on 1.8.9 while its actually on 1.16.4 :)
that- thats what i used
but you arent in the protcolsupport discord...
meh
acoustic pilot
You could do sort of same thing with ViaVersion/ViaBackwards/ViaRewind too I think, but it doesn't go as far back I guess
waxen panther
we stan via version in this household.
acoustic pilot
Yeah true, more plugins doesn't necessarily mean more measurable overhead
visual egret
coarse lily
One garbage plugin can be worse than 10 good ones.
golden gust
I have a 27" retina display, running at not native resolution nor the default one as I wanted extra screen space and didn't need text at a size which you'd use in headers for everything
My servers list doesn't even fit the screen when maximized
Resolution: 2880x1620@2x
coarse lily
I’m only in two Discords. This one and mbaxterForPresident
true canyon
24 1080p is alright. Get much bigger though and it's noticeable.
acoustic pilot
How do you see how many you're in, I'm too lazy to count 😛
true canyon
Send me your email and password and I'll let you know within a week. *
acoustic pilot
Nice, seems legit
acoustic pilot
Yeah I do have 2FA active 😄
visual egret
bro just send me your social security (or country equivalent) for free minecoins
acoustic pilot
https://chew.pw/discord/servers
Nice, 51 servers 😄
visual egret
my grammar is max level
true canyon
This is how chew learns more about us.
mighty storm
I'm on 95 😳
acoustic pilot
rip, is 100 really the limit?
visual egret
Any thoughts on Towny?
laggy? no
zealous wedge
it is byteflux
acoustic pilot
Damn, seems like they need to up that 🙂
mighty storm
I hit 100 a few weeks ago, had to toss some invites to my spreadsheet and leave them for now
iron zephyr
We need something to manage our players though. These kids bring lord of the flies to a whole nother level
minor badge
@zealous wedge will you participate in aoc 2020 😳
mighty storm
which is good as a bulk were just servers i joined, asked one question in, then never went back again
zealous wedge
whomst?
mighty storm
alexandrio ocasio cortez?
visual egret
Is it a lag machine?
i have been running it on a raspberry pi 4 with as much lag as usual
zealous wedge
thanks chew
minor badge
advent of code!
mighty storm
oh close enough
iron zephyr
i have been running it on a raspberry pi 4 with as much lag as usual
Ty 🙂
zealous wedge
i might actually have time this year lol
mighty storm
idk why rubocop insists I do number.zero? instead of number == 0
true canyon
I didn't know I had full permissions in that many servers!
Thanks chew permissions tracking.
minor badge
😔
mighty storm
misleading, i absolutely would
minor badge
apparently i have kick in servers i did not know i had any perms in
zealous wedge
you're too powerful
vernal moth
Wat
grand pewter
i gave chew my information already
mighty storm
what info
grand pewter
"Know what servers you're in"
mighty storm
didnt i send the source code for that a while ago lol
mighty storm
as accurate as it is possible to change an ip with no way to verify the account
vernal moth
You can't spoof a IP with tcp
wispy parrot
what is spoof im simpler words
coarse lily
Fake
mighty storm
could easily be a vpn, it's offline mode, no one's gonna check it
coarse lily
They could connect somewhere else first so maybe it isn’t their house. But it’s the IP they used.
wispy parrot
just wanna track this dude
vernal moth
You can't
wispy parrot
for shareing my personal info
vernal moth
And prolly shouldn't
vernal moth
If you care, go to the police
wispy parrot
police
vernal moth
If you don't, stop wasting your time
vernal moth
We for sure don't support tracking ppl down here
coarse lily
You usually can’t ft any real info to “track” someone with an IP unless you’re law enforcement.
If the IP is their house and the geoip lookup stuff is accurate you might be able to get a city or state. That’s about it.
vernal moth
My geoip turns out on the other side of the country
coarse lily
Yeah
vernal moth
At the HQ of my ISP
wispy parrot
geoip ;/ i thought it will be more accurate
vernal moth
Geoip is useless
coarse lily
It’s not the most accurate thing.
coarse lily
Option 1) Be law enforcement and get access to all kinds of systems.
Option 2) get them to truthfully admit who they are
Option 3) move on
Unfortunately those are your three options.
wispy parrot
i'll try tommorow with the cops bs
coarse lily
Even option 1 is SUPER unhelpful because they don’t care unless they murder someone.
Even then not much.
wispy parrot
yeah ikr
vernal moth
Really depends on what exactly happened
wispy parrot
no point going there but i'll go
potent fossil
Doxing is against discord tos, don't even ask how to do it here and don't even entertain it. My account got deleted with no chance of appeal for even joking about it
void void
How do I open that :c
vernal moth
Identify theft for example is actually enforced here
coarse lily
Law enforcement isn’t often very tech savvy and to then most online disputes are treated as minor things.
wispy parrot
what is doxing in simpler words
potent fossil
It's against the discord law so
vernal moth
I get s call every now and then at work where I get forwarded a police request to track someone down
void void
what is doxing in simpler words
taking people info to blackmail(in some cases) em
vernal moth
Doxing someone means publishing private information about the identity
vernal moth
That's why all my info is public, nobody can dox me ^^
coarse lily
But trying to get THEIR info in response is equally illegal.
coarse lily
Me too, Martin
wispy parrot
if i could somehow i would just track him down and pay him a visit
vernal moth
wispy parrot
talk to hes parents
vernal moth
Here zml
limber knotBOT
now that's actually illegal :p
wispy parrot
with the law inforcement
vernal moth
Just stop please, I said it before
limber knotBOT
ah yes, let me send that picture to pizza hut
vernal moth
We do not support any of that here
wispy parrot
ok sorry
wispy parrot
thanks for a quick lesson tho.
vernal moth
Zml, neuenhöfer allee, 50937 Cologne
Pizza Stores Close in 10 min pls hurry up
No pizza hut pls tho, they suck
limber knotBOT
oregon, ocelot?
limber knotBOT
ah yes gonna send those pics to a pizza place
is that dominos?
or wait i think you said that was local place?
coarse lily
Yeah zml. But headed south to CA
limber knotBOT
hehe i knew those names looked familiar
coarse lily
I’m a bit north of Grants Pass right now.
limber knotBOT
it's been a few years tho
coarse lily
I dig Oregon. For the most part.
robust tiger
vernal moth
It's smileys
It's a small chain I think
And yes we got dominos and pizza hut and shit
tardy moth
waxen panther
he's not wrong
golden gust
.tntdupe
limber knotBOT
Having problems with TNT Duping, Bedrock Breaking or Sand Duping Vanilla Exploits? See: https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/issues/3854 for information.
vernal moth
If you want a better answer ask a better question
red imp
Hi, could I somehow download firmware or it's logs from my router? Somebody backdoored it.
golden gust
"yes"
as for how, depends on the router as to how viable or how you'd even go about that
red imp
300M Wireless N Router
Model No. TL-WR841N / TL-WR841ND
golden gust
Go google
red imp
tried to connect to SSH, but got FATAL ERROR: Server refused to start a shell/command
golden gust
You're generally not gonna get a pretty UI for downloading the firmware from it
logs will also generally be in the UI or generally hidden behind some thing
coarse lily
People ask a lot of weird non-paper questions in here.
visual egret
i just downloaded the free trail of minecraft (BEDROCK) on my pc and what is this, and why do people willingly pay for this
topaz sentinel
i just downloaded the free trail of minecraft (BEDROCK) on my pc and what is thi...
what is papermc?
visual egret
a spigot fork
topaz sentinel
I can't find an official link to donate to / support papermc - anyone got a link?
visual egret
you could just support a developer directly
vernal moth
Nope
visual egret
@vernal moth its a tag i think
leaden oxideBOT
No tag donate found.
vernal moth
🤷
cosmic raft
Z removed the link a week or two ago
vernal moth
Oh
visual egret
wait on bedrock you drop a whole stack of items instead of a single one?
disgusting
spring mango
?
limber knotBOT
btw @cunning raft Discord sent me an answer regarding the data game activity collection claiming that they don't do that and after checking it again now these game tracking calls are gone for real lol
either they forgot some code or hoped nobody would catch it lol
cunning raft
limber knotBOT
ideally someone else would be able to check for those calls too. they might've just disabled it for me lol
or I will just test this with a fresh setup which they can't track back to me eventually lol
crystal compass
any daily reward plugin recommendations if you're too lazy to code your own?
This StreakRewards plugin is taking up 50% of tick onPlayerJoin 😂
if 10 people join within 1-5secs my tps goes to like 14
mf
potent fossil
all i did was google and this came up so idk. https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/rewardpro-daily-rewards-rank-reward-delivery-man.24346/
crystal compass
thanks, I did take a look at that but I saw last update was in july so wanted to see if I found something better
https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/ᵀᴼᴾ「anotherdailybonus」▸-increase-player-retention-1-15-1-16.79674/ this one looks alright I think
potent fossil
doesnt matter when it was last updated, sometimes plugins do not need to be updated
it says it works on 1.16
potent fossil
:/ Just saw this. https://www.spigotmc.org/threads/techscode-passed-away-info-and-funeral-donations.472798
We have lost so many young members of the MC community recently...
coarse lily
What’s the point of that? To get people to login every day?
potent fossil
yes
coarse lily
Why?
potent fossil
Attempt at player retention I guess
pseudo pilot
true canyon
Nice!
coarse lily
Nice!
stiff yarrow
What’s the point of that? To get people to login every day?
The goal is to improve player retention, there are many p2w heavy games that employ this kind of feature because it works
coarse lily
Ah gotcha.
stiff yarrow
I’d argue it’s only really effective in a p2w/grind heavy environment because the daily rewards are typically things to cut through the grind or items that normally require purchase etc
coarse lily
Yeah that makes more sense.
I've never touched pay to win servers, so I dunno.
I was genuinely curious, not trying to imply it was good or bad.
limber knotBOT
can i use the mob goal api to add a vanilla goal to a mob? or do i have to create a custom goal?
..cause i would like to add the "float" goal to zombies..
golden gust
You'd either need to hook into nms to create the goal, or, write your own impl
limber knotBOT
ok
void void
unkempt drift
if I understand paperweight correctly, that should make creating new goals using nms way easier to understand
golden gust
Our current issue is that there's no real sane system to init them bar having some factory class with varying method mappings for it all
short yarrow
What do you guys name your classes that do DB operations? I know there is DAO or maybe Repository, but those seem to be really specific. Like it seems you have to have get, insert update and delete, but I my class has get and updateSpecificColumn
spiral robin
Queries is generally what I name it, obviously doesn't matter. Can't tell if youre talking about method names or class names tho
golden gust
short yarrow
Just class name. I need to see more projects which uses databases to steal some names
At work I see DAO everywhere, but I hate the name
zealous wedge
DAO is kinda the standard
if you're already going to go non-standard, just pick whatever name makes you happy
unkempt drift
coarse lily
You could just pick something else you like.
Could just use "db" instead.
If your stuff is ever going to get used by someone else you should use somehting that's somewhat obvious.
So that people aren't like "why is this called network when it's database stuff"
viral hornet
jeeeesus
void void
waxen panther
monkaChrist
true canyon
Well, what's your trouble with pebble?
next wind
And what's your budget?
coarse lily
I host my own stuff.
Seems like it's cheaper to get your own box and run Minecraft on it. But you don't get the fancy panel stuff. I guess you could install it.
next wind
Not really
You have to worry about power outages, internet issues, replacing and upgrading hardware, and overall put in more effort to keep your server running
coarse lily
Sorry, I mean renting a colocated box.
VS paying a "host".
I do also have server hardware at home, but the important stuff is in a datacenter.
Some of it my own hardware, some of it rented colo boxes.
Seems to me like it makes more sense to rent a colo box than to pay for a specific Minecraft host, unless you aren't tech savvy and need all the GUI stuff.
next wind
Still usually cheaper to just rent the host as they have harware discounts and shit
coarse lily
But IMO if you're running a Minecraft server you should get comfortable/familiar with that.
I guess it depends.
You can get a 32GB RAM box for ~$50/mo usually.
next wind
I wouldnt say a mc planel is just for non tech savvy people either, it's just quicker to manage and easier to check how your servers running when your away from your pc or whatever
coarse lily
Pebblehost looks like it's $25/mo for 25GB, though. So that seems like a decent deal.
void void
Should have a panel while also self hosting it on a vps
coarse lily
Although I'm not sure what "premium" vs "budget" is for them.
true canyon
They define it on their site.
next wind
And easier for bringing in new admins as they don't also need to have linux experience
coarse lily
The budget box seems decent enough for $25/mo
next wind
Yeah don't get pebbles more expensive plans lol
Just move to dedicated mc and bloom host
And 25 gigs is near useless for mc
Just get dedicatedmcs 14 dollar plan or something
void void
dont get bloom vps it has cooties
next wind
I'm not talking about vps
void void
just saying because i'm totally not trying to get it before it is out of stock
next wind
I'm talking about their mc plan because that's all he's doing afaik
coarse lily
mbaxter who would you use?
true canyon
baxhost
coarse lily
Haha
true canyon
Cheapest by a lot, but very unreliable.
coarse lily
What it lacks in reliability it makes up for in character.
true canyon
I just collect money and say "sorry the server's offline"
coarse lily
I still have ONE person on one of my servers.
And every year I email him and say "Hey wouldn't you rather get a VM or something somewhere?"
And he says no he's good and paypals me.
:(
I guess that box has good uptime but I feel less bad when I take my own shit down vs something someone else is on, too.
true canyon
ocelothostpie
coarse lily
More like hostpotpie
true canyon
hostalotpotpie
golden gust
[6:40 AM] zzzCat (Do not ping): We can't really help you with this stuff bar giving you a checklist
- server.properties IP is set correctly (generally leave blank)
- check port forwarding, some routers may need a reboot in some cases (cough netgear cough), as some are just "slightly" buggy here
- firewall
- "Does your ISP allow servers?"
untold copper
yes
it does
and i rebooted already
and im not even using netgear
it was working yesterday re
zealous wedge
i hear your router vendor knows how your router works
zealous wedge
wow, sounds a lot like what you'll get from here
untold copper
-.-
zealous wedge
anyways: lol ok rip
golden gust
It's your network
untold copper
is it something very obvious im missinggg
golden gust
How are we supposed to know?
coarse lily
We don't kno- hah exactly
It's not like we know how to fix it and refuse to tell you
golden gust
Make sure that nothing like your LAN IP has changed, etc
coarse lily
We have no idea what your setup is and/or what you problem is.
zealous wedge
since i'm pretty sure none of us live with you and know your network
true canyon
or do we
coarse lily
mbaxter lives with all of us.
untold copper
Make sure that nothing like your LAN IP has changed, etc
hm not changed
true canyon
ceiling bax is watching you castigate
untold copper
which part
coarse lily
It's on TNT. I wonder if they'll play the next one after this.
untold copper
there are a lot of "that parts"
coarse lily
The part where everyone dies.
untold copper
ah I see
golden gust
that sounds beautiful
untold copper
imagine dying.
true canyon
no thanks
upbeat kelp
.tacos
limber knotBOT
🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮
coarse lily
I agree.
coarse lily
Me too.
coarse lily
They did not play ENDGAME after. :(
spiral robin
Bluely are you there 🥺
crystal compass
What do you guys think about having a different world for spawn/shop builds etc ?
waste of resources?
(void world)
golden gust
server has to manage that world
rancid citrus
Hi can anybody tell me how can I do a colour text in the name to npc? Sorry I am new to this 😅
crystal compass
mind explaining a bit further zcat?
spiral robin
Sam I would have 1 void world and seperate the different locations a few hundred blocks away in their own containers /shrug
golden gust
the server has to do logic like managing chunks
even if there are no players in that world it still exists
the cost of a world in general is muuuch more expensive vs older versions of the game
spiral robin
xd
untold copper
aternos XDD
rancid citrus
Hi can anybody tell me how can I do a colour text in the name to npc? Sorry I am...
.
limpid comet
@spiral robin yes I am
upbeat kelp
.leaf
limber knotBOT
limber knotBOT
crystal compass
Thanks zCat
untold copper
.kashike
limber knotBOT
untold copper
.minecon
untold copper
.motto
limber knotBOT
MAKE SPIGOT GREAT AGAIN!
limber knotBOT
¯_(ツ)_/¯
untold copper
.saved
limber knotBOT
tYpe lEss WIth SAVED rePlIEs qUICkly ADD YoUR MOSt CommOn rEPliEs tO iSSUeS anD Pull ReqUeSts.
coarse lily
pls
mighty storm
maybe it's a sign to stop spamming the channel
mighty storm
But those commands only work in this channel
untold copper
then... uh.... exactly?
limber knotBOT
@grand pewter why 50 permits for semaphore? Or was that just a rando value?
grand pewter
to prevent the server from stalling/crashing due to too many chunks being requested - 50 is just an arbitrary "high enough" value
don't want to request every chunk in the world all at once 😛
RoboMWM just looked at your code and by the way you can probably get rid of the semaphore completely if you have some sort of other mechanism set up for controlling the speed at which they get generated
grand pewter
1 might cause it to go extremely slowly
only 1 chunk can be active at a time
requests are made to the server in the order that the iterator provides them, and there can be many chunks getting generated by the server simultaneously
limber knotBOT
thought chunkgen was still only one thread, but mk
grand pewter
oh yeah its one thread per world, meant requests
golden gust
your biggest risk of spamming a ton of requests is that the system gets backed up, requests for stuff like chunks around players take 10 years, etc
grand pewter
you can be generating chunks in several worlds at the same time however
what are you trying to do again robo, make it as slow as possible?
limber knotBOT
make it slow enough for GC to catch up
which I think I've tweaked both java args and it just enough to get it to be ok finally
grand pewter
hm thats cool, how long is it going to take to get it to finish at this point on your mini server
limber knotBOT
10 second sleep, making young gen have more space, and reducing heap to avoid hitting swap so much. Just curious about the permits value because I added logic to allow it to go without sleeping but not sure if I should also use that to control permits too
grand pewter
do you even get the update messages anymore or is it too slow for that? you might have to comment out the part that checks if there aren't enough samples to calculate from, or extend the amount of time it samples
limber knotBOT
I can't recall but at 10 second sleep that's like 0.2s per chunk
I do
would be every 10 seconds or 40 seconds I think
basically want to avoid gc stopping all threads so it can still process login and stop generation
void void
yay i made my first plugin
limber knotBOT
but ya, if it's just one thread for chunkgen I assume the amount of permits won't change how fast those chunks are generated
unless paper does some stuff before callback, which I guess then queuing up multiple requests would help keep that pipeline filled
mighty storm
Hi pop owo
grand pewter
yeah it might help, tbh just experiment with it
the number of permits was pretty much just to prevent too many requests
grand pewter
if you dont limit that then you can be requesting every chunk in the entire world (at least the part you're generating) at the same time
lol
limber knotBOT
well my question is more of why not 1
like a limit vs no limit (aside from queue size) would be of no difference I would expect
grand pewter
when i was testing it i remember it still being slower when being set to 1
didn't look too much into why
it probably doesn't need to be 50 though
when cat mentioned the requests backing up stuff for players it kind of reminded me i should look into that again
it might be possible that reducing it a bit more could help with servers that try to generate stuff while players are online, that's something i haven't really been able to test
limber knotBOT
ya cps seems to be similar no matter 50 or 1, maybe more consistent at the higher end but will see once I let this print stats for a few minutes
olive marlin
I know plenty of people here use some sort of IRC bouncer/proxy.
Any recommendations as to what software to use (BIP? ZNC? Something else?) and where to host it on a budget?
Not interested in those "free, but you need to login every week" services - want to set it up and forget, until I'll need to use it once a month or 2.
golden gust
Think most people use ZNC or the lounges built-in thing
limber knotBOT
I used panicbnc before I hosted my own
iirc
are you looking for software (self host) or service (someone else hosts)?
my very unscientific testing, blue is with 1, orange is with 50. https://techfortress.azurewebsites.net/EXCEL_2020-11-23_23-16-15.png So I guess there is a tad bit of a difference. You should add a benchmark feature so it automatically tests different permit values and generates a csv for each c:
olive marlin
I'm thinking about self hosting it (probably will be cheapest to spin 3€ hetzner cloud instance) or using managed "single-shell" services. But need to read on IRC stuff a bit, because some have limitations to 2 connections per server and need to know what that exactly means.
limber knotBOT
electronicboy joinin the do not ping club, y, it just looks dum
if you're self hosting then you set the limitations
golden gust
makes it harder to read for me, especially on days where my eyes are playing bad, and this reply feature is pissing me off
limber knotBOT
yes
olive marlin
Imagine discord allowing to disable mentions FROM specific roles.
limber knotBOT
that option is called IRC
warm anchor
But this is discord we taking about 🤷♂️
limber knotBOT
which mr bloodstone here is rightfully considering
golden gust
I just wish they'd make the damned CSS configurable or something
untold copper
Parents be like:
Game Keyboard: Ok fine
Game: lol no
warm anchor
i found something op
Get that 12 year old joke out of here 
limber knotBOT
also you should have chunky pause onDisable pop numbers
slender abyss
Is there anyway to set multiple border with WorldBorder in one world? I have 3 maps in one world i would like to create border
warm anchor
Btw this cat is epic 
golden gust
I love how somebody just walks past the place without noticing
warm anchor
Dude the dogs reaction is what gets me lol
merry talon
there's no way its not in pain
potent fossil
#paper-help for free help, read the rules as this is not a marketplace
prepare timings report
golden gust
There is no real avoiding that hell without something to cache that data
potent fossil
jesus christ what is this name that's typing...
void void
well that's just rude
potent fossil
read the rules.
warm owl
is the last "/" silent?
reef hornet
Also I don’t think I’m really having an issue with the actual mojang query, I tested that with another plugin. It seems to be an issue when the response from the mojang query is attempted to be put onto the skull
Not sure exactly.
potent fossil
i don't think there is much you as the user can do, it would be the plugin's code's job to be caching requests
so it sounds like a contact the author or find an alternative plugin that does the same thing sort of issue
cosmic raft
reef hornet
It’s not any plugins that are having an issue though. Loading a regular 32 slot chest filled with playerheads then rebooting the server will take it to 1tps for around 30 seconds
potent fossil
oh not a player head plugin?
potent fossil
i think then you'd probably want to switch to a player head plugin, which should cache properly, as opposed to the server
reef hornet
Does it work like that?
coarse lily
I've used PlayerHeads with success in the past.
reef hornet
Isn’t it handled by spigot..?
potent fossil
well you'd want to use the plugin's heads instead of the vanilla heads then, but once you've migrated yes
coarse lily
reef hornet
That’s all well and good but I’m curious about the vanilla heads
I don’t understand how it’s having such a big issue
potent fossil
I'm pretty sure what Cat said covered it, the server doesn't cache them for whatever reason (and that reason I don't know, maybe somebody else does)
So each boot it hits mojang for the skins
Which is really dumb
but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
coarse lily
Mojang's use case seems to be "One person and their friend online at maybe the same time occasionally"
reef hornet
Are there any cache settings in paper or spigot?
Perhaps my cache is not working
But I don’t see how that would break in regular paper 1.12
potent fossil
I don't think paper does, no, but even if the latest paper did it wouldn't be backported to 1.12
reef hornet
I’m just so confused how this issue popped up outta nowhere all of a sudden 😂
potent fossil
Did you change anything right before it began?
I'm not sure why it would suddenly happen
reef hornet
I did yes, this began occurring on my most recent server reset
potent fossil
It'll definitely happen for sure if the server was put into offline mode
reef hornet
And we added a lot of things from the last reset.
the server is in online mode
Would usercache.json perhaps affect this ?
potent fossil
No that just saves username and uuid, nothing to do with skins
I mean you can try but back it up
But I don't think so
reef hornet
Technically do you think we could just modify paper spigot such that any vanilla head request would just be closed instantly? Instead of trying to query mojang api and whatever else it does atm
I don’t actually care about the skins not showing
I’d prefer that if it means the server is playable
cosmic raft
wheee
potent fossil
he's not a dev
cosmic raft
it begins
potent fossil
what begins
cosmic raft
cosmic raft
v2!
potent fossil
claps while being unsure about himself
vernal moth
Just wait till you get access to swagger/open api
potent fossil
That looks like what it currently is?
cosmic raft
nope
cosmic raft
https://papermc.io/api/v1/paper - project overview, lists available version
https://papermc.io/api/v1/paper/1.13.2 - version overview, lists available builds
https://papermc.io/api/v1/paper/1.13.2/543 - specific build overview
https://papermc.io/api/v1/paper/1.13.2/543/download - specific build download
https://papermc.io/api/v1/paper/1.13.2/latest - latest build overview
https://papermc.io/api/v1/paper/1.13.2/latest/download - latest build download
that is v1
vernal moth
It has changes, it has hashes
cosmic raft
and all of it
cosmic raft
I'm currently dumping the hashes for all the files
golden gust
There is no caching in the server that persists reboots, you'd need a plugin to store those skulls, it's still going to hit your database, or whatever persistent storage you have, so the gains of it, 🤷♂️
cosmic raft
wheeee
1.13.1 228 905a90b133065e0c4ee6687c96aff945f95b169be8b9559ea793ddb449615bba
1.13.1 324 d0c110f847259cfe57e45ce5abd1188cbcb59fb599e9991a1c3ae63674c8f260
1.13.1 198 7a608a62cc00e84c122298d9e71ee1bf7cd9b1bb441218a022926e952bd66508
....
unreal quarry
cosmic raft
garbage compared to v2 :)
potent fossil
more info
vernal moth
For starters, it got no hashes ^^
worn ember
now I'll have to update paper downloader kappa
worn ember
Spring or spring boot
cosmic raft
spring boot
vernal moth
Nobody uses raw spring anymore
cosmic raft
old:
{"project":"paper","version":"1.16.4","build":"274"}
Nice. That's currently on the menu in our backed classes
cosmic raft
{
"project_id": "paper",
"project_name": "Paper",
"version": "1.16.4",
"build": 274,
"time": "2020-11-12T04:59:15.622Z",
"changes": [
{
"commit": "73fc96669d7410372f15c68901c01bf923ae9cf4",
"summary": "Fix per-world settings not reloading (#4756)",
"message": "Fix per-world settings not reloading (#4756)"
}
],
"downloads": {
"application": {
"name": "paper-1.16.4-274.jar",
"sha256": "[old build, hash to be calculated]"
}
}
}
new ^
worn ember
We did :) in the beginning
cosmic raft
sha256 will be populated with a real value though, dummy value used for localhost dev
in fact, paper hash dump just finished.. let me import them locally
potent fossil
spring boot is baby
after mini finally converted me i couldn't believe i ever used anything else
so much wasted time before
potent fossil
lol
I mean I guess it's good to know how to build that stuff without all the stuff spring provides
but once you know, got damn
worn ember
I don't think it's that great. Compared to ASP at least
potent fossil
Are you memeing?
worn ember
No
potent fossil
@vernal moth Look at this
worn ember
You haven't even used ASP how can you even be triggered about it 
potent fossil
I'm not triggered, I'm laughing my ass off
worn ember
So why are you laughing then?
potent fossil
.NET
worn ember
Ok
Let's make fun off something I've never used before cuz that's what other people do huehue
potent fossil
I've used ASP, how do you have any idea that I've not? I used it in my last job, which had its head so far up Microsoft's ass it made me nauseous
IIS is a disgusting webserver and ASP is a disgusting framework
worn ember
Surprised you're not in love with it then
potent fossil
Spring <3
worn ember
Not saying spring is bad by any means, i just prefer ASP atm
cosmic raft
well those plans are cancelled for tonight
potent fossil
what plans
cosmic raft
you forgot already?
potent fossil
oh the api?
cosmic raft
yes
worn ember
Why tho?
cosmic raft
/.../downloads/waterfall/1.16/351.jar -> /.../Waterfall-Proxy/bootstrap/target/Waterfall.jar
/.../downloads/waterfall/1.16/384.jar -> /.../Waterfall-Proxy/bootstrap/target/Waterfall.jar
all waterfall downloads are the same version, it turns out. something got screwed up with v1 api
so can't migrate until we figure out what to do with those
potent fossil
😭
worn ember
welp
potent fossil
god damn i just had an amazing moment, thought i lost all my ch 4 physics homework but i found it
now i can just move to ch 5 without redoing all that bullshit
ashen cliff
60ml splash.
untold copper
your point being?
potent fossil
thats not much spill resistance
but, still fine
just dont spill shit on your keyboard
/shru
good god
whatever
untold copper
lol
twin lagoon
@mossy vessel 
mossy vessel
@twin lagoon aaaaa 
waxen panther
mossy vessel
viral hornet
@twin lagoon 🥺
twin lagoon
camm 
viral hornet
cosmic raft
who wants a sneak peak at a real v2 api response? :D
worn ember
sure 🙂
cosmic raft
{
"project_id": "waterfall",
"project_name": "Waterfall",
"version": "1.16",
"build": 384,
"time": "2020-11-09T01:36:57.776Z",
"changes": [
{
"commit": "85f0a0c69a5d1ffbf759ae5553a3b09d1f520eda",
"summary": "Capture some script failure states better",
"message": "Capture some script failure states better\n\nEnsures that failures of primarily applying patches during builds\nshould be passed up, this will need a better look over at some point"
}
],
"downloads": {
"application": {
"name": "waterfall-1.16-384.jar",
"sha256": "33938122a07fa6eb93c3581f5f937c8079629d23e33fbbe28f1ead1c093991ce"
},
"module:cmd_alert": {
"name": "cmd_alert-1.16-384.jar",
"sha256": "bcec19d38cce7e55245804f63c6b62619389c29d6a597ef978e2995a73f08dfc"
},
"module:cmd_find": {
"name": "cmd_find-1.16-384.jar",
"sha256": "b26b1a03443232c7aa47f08e5701b33f6c58fcf983eaedfe1abb5abaf5c87e42"
},
"module:cmd_list": {
"name": "cmd_list-1.16-384.jar",
"sha256": "d12807f34b519a5dc7d7debdd746e09fc4b3b4ad0d09c32693b566940f014a49"
},
"module:cmd_send": {
"name": "cmd_send-1.16-384.jar",
"sha256": "06000368fd9b10340a581a6575fdf3dd565b044cb2bb78e534f30fdb917cc57d"
},
"module:cmd_server": {
"name": "cmd_server-1.16-384.jar",
"sha256": "cb8091f21f85271c4a017b9ad4e3ec37006b942c76a209f47e3624022a431588"
},
"module:reconnect_yaml": {
"name": "reconnect_yaml-1.16-384.jar",
"sha256": "6cf26d826b3896dfa4327cd3b619bf5475c026e3a34283f7f809345ea78e7e70"
}
}
}
wepic
potent fossil
untold copper
ashen cliff
Needs more hashes.
potent fossil
kash go to sleep its 4am
worn ember
what are the modules for?
ashen cliff
Bungee.
potent fossil
those are default bungee modules
cosmic raft
welcome to bungeecord
worn ember
oh, yeah i never use bungee so i have no clue
potent fossil
md_5