Their first version, the Cortex X1, is just behind the A13, I think
#general
magic river
But it won't even be out until sometime next year
So they're like 3 years behind Apple
ancient bolt
I'm curious how the JVM will run on Apple's ARM vs Apple's Intel. Like I wonder if the ARM versions of the JDK will require any major changes to run well on it
magic river
Oh, and we actually have confirmation the MBA runs at 10W while the A14 was 5W
Or maybe that 5W was just when doing CPU benchmarks and not the TDP of the chip, not clear
merry talon
can you not run linux on a mac?
magic river
You can't run Linux on the ARM Macs
magic river
When asked about it they just talked about Hypervisor.framework and showed off Debian running a GNOME 3 desktop in Parallels or something
merry talon
I mean someone'll figure it out I imagine
it just won't come with the same optimizations
lol "the need to direct boot shouldn't be the concern"
magic river
If they can get it working at all efficiency shouldn't be a problem (other than power efficiency)
But I think they locked the bootloader so... good luck
ancient bolt
does windows work on ARM macs?
magic river
No
ancient bolt
I assume apple will work with microsoft on that
magic river
I don't think they even tried to pretend to support it via virtualization
At least not as of WWDC or any later statements on the matter
ancient bolt
I don't think even apple is brazen enough to drop bootcamp
merry talon
magic river
They definitely said bootcamp is gone
ancient bolt
wow
potent fossil
Why are all of apple's employees models
magic river
ARM Windows so far isn't even something you can buy either
It only comes from an OEM on a device that also has a locked bootloader
worn pasture
dem brows
magic river
They aren't models, they just have good lighting, hygiene, and stylists π
potent fossil
craig π₯΅
worn pasture
ancient bolt
so what is he even saying
is he saying you can boot windows as if it was a native install but it's actually virtualized?
or what?
I don't get it
magic river
Apparently Anandtech rigged up active cooling (a fan) for these benchmarks so they could test the architecture and not the cooling solution of the product
merry talon
but does it act the same when its not expecting to have active cooling?
magic river
He said bootcamp isn't a thing and direct booting anything other than macOS is a no-go
But they believe their hypervisor is efficient enough you don't need that
ancient bolt
I'm still lost because he specifically said virtualizing ARM on ARM, not x86 on ARM (obviously)
magic river
Sure Sweepy, modern chips autoscale based on available voltage and thermals
magic river
To virtualize Windows you'd need Microsoft to sell ARM Windows to normal people
void void
magic river
And then most of your apps would have to use Microsoft's shitty version of rosetta which can only do 32-bit apps
ancient bolt
apple dropped support for e-gpus as well
they aren't interested in handling drivers for other hardware I suppose
magic river
It's unclear if that's an IOMMU thing (I hope no, Thunderbolt still requires one) or just a driver thing
So it might support them again in a later software update, there shouldn't be a hardware reason they don't work
I wonder if ARM macOS still has OpenGL
magic river
You'd think they'd at least need it for apps going through Rosetta
ancient bolt
some weird opengl to metal translation
magic river
And if you have that why not have it for everything
ancient bolt
minecraft on mac will be interesting
magic river
afaik Rosetta is a lot like qemu usermode where it emulates the CPU for userspace and hooks and translates syscalls back and forth
So it's certainly possible they only compiled their OpenGL driver stack for amd64 but I'd be surprised
Oh, the kernel was also modified to emulate the x86 memory model for processes that have the "emulated" flag set, neat
Ooh, another fun comparison, the low power efficiency cores in the A14 are similar to the performance of the big performance cores in a Snapdragon 845
pastel pivot
Someone else having problems with youtube right now? Videos don't start to play on my pc and mobile devices ..
merry talon
working fine for me
slender jay
youtube ded
unreal quarry
so thats why my music stopped
merry talon
man
why does anyone ship with fedex
they told me multiple delivery attempts have been made so now I have to go pick it up
I wasn't even contacted once
worn pasture
so thats why my music stopped
@unreal quarry yeah fucked me off too
just when my meeting ended
potent fossil
https://owo.whats-th.is/7YpC1em.png :(
typhoon ulysses results
worn pasture
oh shit
we outsource a lot of our dev work to the philippines, we told them to not worry about that today
worn pasture
work
potent fossil
oh okay
unreal quarry
i read that as
"there;s a typhoon!"
"dont worry about that, get back to work"
worn pasture
yeah i'm not too sure, i think they're kinda spread out
potent fossil
but if they lost internet expect them to be gone for like 3 days lol. cause PLDT (main internet provider) is absolute fucking T R A S H
worn pasture
yeah we've definitely factored that in
potent fossil
god i hate that company
merry talon
lol i thought the same billy
potent fossil
anyway yeah, hope they will be alright. My fiancee is near there but her city is not flooding that badly
worn pasture
music is back @unreal quarry
unreal quarry
not for me π¦
cloud dawn
Now my other server members are getting that downloading resource pack 100%
I don't know why
Why is it not downloading
dapper nacelle
unreal quarry
@upper flicker Chrysti got me a baconator... Kinda ^_^
warm anchor
Itβs not bad
unreal quarry
goes to play the "bring up the fucking servers" video clip... but realizes its on YouTube, too
cunning raft
it seems like other google services (like google play) are having trouble
so probably something more at large
cloud dawn
Found the problem
So I basically told my entire playerbase to do this
LetsEncrypt isn't supported in java 1.8
cunning raft
right
cloud dawn
You don't even need to install java 14
you just extract zip
@spare venture Why would I
letsencrypt is good
cunning raft
telling your players to update your java version is a bad idea
cloud dawn
It's mojang's problem actually
cunning raft
java 8u101 should have included the new cert
cunning raft
and running unsupported java versions can lead to unexpected behavior
merry talon
...what's wrong with cf certs
cunning raft
you're picking to force your users to run 15 steps
cunning raft
you're picking the path of most resistance lmfao
cloud dawn
It'll work just fine, I been running custom java
cunning raft
but no my users must use a java 14 install they'll never update and forget about!
cloud dawn
HTTPSeverywhere
cunning raft
httpseverywhere is a browser extension
cloud dawn
Plus I doubt I can do that since they probably cached the HSTS
unreal quarry
hears ssl, responds with irrelevant things
cloud dawn
It's my choice
cunning raft
limpid comet
sure, it's just a stupid choice
bad for the players, and in turn, bad for you
your offloading like 10 minutes of your work to an unknown amount of time to all your players
unreal quarry
because hypixel sucks, barty
although.. they do have villagers... so thats a plus
runs away
cloud dawn
Most public big servers suck anyway
limpid comet
hyplexel wen
cunning raft
im sure your sever is better
i mean who doesn't want to be forced to update java to play
cunning raft
if only the big servers did that, maybe they'd have the 20 players you did
limpid comet
cat had a whole discussion about them updating java last night
cloud dawn
Should be able to use letsencrypt just fine, it's been out for 5+ years
limpid comet
i don't see why this has to be an issue at all
as far as i understand, all you need to do is just disable https on your resource pack link lmao
cunning raft
i mean
mojang should update their java version
to at least the latest 1.8 security update
^
right
unreal quarry
Should be able to use letsencrypt just fine, it's been out for 5+ years
@cloud dawn indeed, but the java that ships with MC client is older than that
lol
8u25, iirc
cloud dawn
Then java needs to update it
unreal quarry
no
cunning raft
they did
unreal quarry
jfc
cunning raft
mojang needs to bump security updates
cloud dawn
then mojang needs to push out the update
limpid comet
stop expecting others to solve your problems
cunning raft
but you having a fucking 50 step program isn't the best solution
limpid comet
stop acting like it's mojang's responsibility or your player's responsibility to solve an issue on your end
cloud dawn
Not a problem on my end, everything works fine, just java sucks end of story
cosmic raft
Mojang has not been able to update the version of Java used on the client due to Intel driver issues
limpid comet
do you even have an argument as to not doing it, other than pure laziness?
cunning raft
lol rlly kash
limpid comet
yeah that's what cat was talking about last night
unreal quarry
java sucks for not including a cert that didnt exist at the time of release
cunning raft
how did oracle break intel driver support
limpid comet
had a good convo about that
unreal quarry
lmfao
cunning raft
no problem on my end billy must be shitjang!11!!!
cosmic raft
@cunning raft https://github.com/LWJGL/lwjgl/issues/119
cunning raft
this could just be the latest java 8 barty
cloud dawn
I'm not changing my complex ssl setup because I don't even permit http on my server ANYWHERE, it's all HTTPS with HSTS enforced.
cosmic raft
be nice
cloud dawn
http:// redirects automatically
merry talon
just replace your subdomain for that download with a CF cert?
limpid comet
its a zip file
cosmic raft
JRoy probably has no idea what HSTS is :p
cloud dawn
Infact browsers even save your HSTS status
cunning raft
i do kash
cosmic raft
more than likely, yes
cloud dawn
The only workaround is if I were to create an entirely different domain with a different nginx config for one fucking zip file
or just host that zip file somewhere
cunning raft
sounds easier
cloud dawn
That isn't really easy
merry talon
?????????????
cloud dawn
I mean this shouldn't even be a problem to begin with
merry talon
make a subdomain
unreal quarry
The only workaround is if I were to create an entirely different domain with a different nginx config for one fucking zip file
@cloud dawn thats what I did. http://rp.pl3x.net
limpid comet
oh wow yours are versioned
cosmic raft
@cloud dawn mind sharing your domain with me in #report-a-dupe?
limpid comet
that's neat
unreal quarry
oh wow yours are versioned
@limpid comet i do that so i dont have to fool with the hash
i'm lazy
cosmic raft
I mean
the hash is there for a reason
to not re-download if it matches already
saving bandwidth
unreal quarry
if there's no hash kash, it wont redownload unless the filename changes
limpid comet
get denied barty
merry talon
potent fossil
he sippin that purp
cloud dawn
I did however, had an issue already
potent fossil
i could use some lean rn
unreal quarry
ermahgerd! chrysti is making me some frito pie! \o/
cloud dawn
The fix was relaxing my ssl security
and allowing more ciphers
and that fixed it
but for some reason others had issues as well
even though it fixed mine so like
Honestly it's just too much work
to do a seperate domain
cunning raft
...
cosmic raft
Well
cunning raft
but forcing users to update isn't
honestly why use java 14 if you're gonna force users too
AT LEAST use the latest java 8
that has the certs you need
cunning raft
it's not
cosmic raft
I just checked your domain; you should be able to use a subdomain because you don't include subdomains in your HSTS directive
cunning raft
and you will run into problems
cosmic raft
so rp.domain.com would work
merry talon
if creating a subdomain is too difficult there is something fundamentally wrong with your web server setup
merry talon
cloud dawn
but like
unreal quarry
its the easiest way, honestly
merry talon
ew that is not what i was going for
unreal quarry
until mojang ships with a newer java, that is
cloud dawn
Bigger brain idea, minecraft sends you the resource pack through the server rather than the web server
cosmic raft
Yes, this is a temporary fix. Java will eventually get updated, just not today :P
limpid comet
why would you do that
cloud dawn
Because why have a completely seperate server
merry talon
you would rather annoy your entire playerbase than spend 2 minutes creating one
good luck with that
i get that its a good idea to use up to date software but sometimes you have to cater to people when running a business
merry talon
if you care more about that than people playing on your server
cloud dawn
I still have java installed because
cosmic raft
And you can still do that too
merry talon
go right ahead lol
unreal quarry
anything that requires the user to manually do anything is just asking to kill your playerbase, tbh. i lost a playerbase to a custom launcher once. it was supposed to make their life easier by installing a bunch of mods for them so they didnt have to go grab 25 different ones themselves. but turns out asking them to grab even that launcher was just too much
cloud dawn
optifine cannot install without java
Though java too default download site
is still using java 8
I think
like WHY
I go to linux, and I can get java-jre-15 or whatever
and it takes like 15 seconds
and I'm ready
merry talon
i... what
cosmic raft
lmao @unreal quarry: https://i.imgur.com/vnnbp1Y.mp4
cosmic raft
heh
spice frigate
lmao
unreal quarry
you should see how long it takes kids to install java
lmao
10 minutes is nothing compared to that
cloud dawn
Installing java?
spice frigate
just wait till you are rendering a 3d model that is huge
cloud dawn
The link I sent them isn't an installer
spice frigate
that can take 10+ days
cloud dawn
it's just a zip file
you extract to a place like documents
and select the javaw
that's it
no installation
Just needs a 64-bit windows machine
which 99.9999% of people have
I don't know anyone who still runs 32-bit
spice frigate
you are way off on that % lmao
cloud dawn
need more digits?
Who in 2020 still runs a 32-bit machine with Windows 10 on it
They don't even make computers for 32-bit anymore
spice frigate
Not everyone uses windows
unreal quarry
you realize 9/10 times someone have java issues its because they had 32 bit version installed, right?
potent fossil
studies show that 9/10 people quoting percentages have made up the percentages
spice frigate
^
unreal quarry
no, simple. 87% of statistics are made up on the spot
cunning raft
ok
spice frigate
java version doesn't necessarily do anything to that xD
cunning raft
do you want a picture of what i ate for dinner
spice frigate
Prove it.
cunning raft
lol
spice frigate
Give us data
spice frigate
Don't make claims that you cant backup
cloud dawn
otherwise what's the point of upgrading java
spice frigate
Features.
potent fossil
cloud dawn
If one wasn't lazy one could run some java benchmark tool on 8 and then one on 14
unreal quarry
someone needs to invent a way for me to punch someone through the internet already
:/
spice frigate
also just for you @cloud dawn
OS Stats from https://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
cloud dawn
Cool but like I said
Windows
Windows zip file
Not linux
or apple
I don't care if you're on fucking templeos
waxen panther
wtf.
spice frigate
you should
waxen panther
templeos is the best.
potent fossil
ok brain becoming numb have fun!!!!! π π π π π π π
potent fossil
come with me to paradise brocc
waxen panther
?
potent fossil
no
waxen panther
damn
unreal quarry
templeos
i was severely confused with the conversation because i kept reading that astampons
spice frigate
god this convo reminds of a convo in the spigot disc yesterday where a kid tried to run a NMS command through java instead of recreating the method that would take under 5 mins
waxen panther
jr
y is typing
cunning raft
@waxen panther
summer silo
is there some way to measure the performance of my server running vanilla vs running papermc?
spice frigate
Not really without any mods
spice frigate
Not a default mc command
potent fossil
vanilla doesn't have that
void void
summer silo
ah i see, thanks
spice frigate
basically no matter what it will be better xD
It cant get worse, unless you install bad plugins that is
summer silo
i run a small vanilla server at home for my family. but it lags at times. I'm just wondering if it's worth running under papermc instead?
worn pasture
if you don't care about certain vanilla mechanics, sure
spice frigate
The issue could be multiple things, but you could improve on it using all of paper's optimizations.
summer silo
@worn pasture oh? like what
@spice frigate does one have to tune papermc to get performance or is it simply faster out of the box?
worn pasture
i'm not terribly up to date on what the changes are, but to most casual players it will be insignificant
spice frigate
It will be a bit faster out of the box, but for really good performance you will have to do some of your own optimizations, there's guides about in online
spiral robin
Hi
void void
hi
summer silo
can you point me to a suitable guide?
spice frigate
.optimize
limber knotBOT
additional tips for improving server performance - https://www.spigotmc.org/posts/3684550
void void
.optimize2
potent fossil
it already got sent...
spice frigate
lol
void void
does it have a cmd?
potent fossil
its part of the one command now
worn pasture
where's barty's guide
potent fossil
deleted 
worn pasture
classic barty
spice frigate
someone prob should backup both of those guides aswell just incase, or make new ones
summer silo
thanks guys
golden gust
Isn't he consistently screaming about performance issues though?
potent fossil
don't bully bartholomew
worn pasture
yeah simple ur so... simple
potent fossil
potent fossil
?
waxen panther
potent fossil
yup we've had this convo in here before
i personally don't care. allowlist/denylist is more descriptive anyway
waxen panther
no matter your feelings on it, a lot of people don't like them. why would such a large business not do it
potent fossil
as for the branches whatever, i changed mine a long time ago
waxen panther
better to offend no one than potentially offend someone
fresh talon
saying you have write privilege to the blacklist of your master slave setup will probably get you banned from github at this point
potent fossil
also that's not github, that's a much larger movement and many places are making those changes
no...it won't.
they're just changing terminology
now if you're doing that to intentionally be a racist asshole, which most people aren't, then yes it will
and anyway this is about political correctness of speech so #politics
i don't wanna talk about it for the 501st time
spice frigate
:p
potent fossil
you what
merry talon
wait
merry talon
did github ban that terminology?
limpid comet
bwocc
waxen panther
starwars is p bad but clone wars is π³
potent fossil
how THEY use it
merry talon
oh
waxen panther
bwuely
potent fossil
its one time
cosmic raft
extra step?
cosmic raft
??
potent fossil
its not every repo
fresh talon
potent fossil
@cosmic raft they set the default branch for new repos to 'main', but you can just go to account settings and change it. it's a global setting
it's not an 'extra step' for every new repo
they're just being extra about it as usual
and plz ppl go to #politics cuz this shit is annoying
fresh talon
so that weather huh
worn pasture
are we beating that dead horse again
potent fossil
yup
potent fossil
yeah just change it, it's a global setting. if you prefer master you can set it back and forget about it
https://github.com/settings/repositories top of the page
merry talon
ah
potent fossil
smh kangarko complaining he can't price his resources so high
cosmic raft
wat
serene bolt
I enjoyed the part about him going and making his own premium resource platform
that's what the world needs
potent fossil
"i can't charge obscene prices, so i will leave"
yes please
although he did make a point about ewg and stuff idk why they get the pass
'grandfathered' my ass
zealous wedge
yeah, he can make his own platform
and it'll work as well as everything else he does
potent fossil
inb4 have to pay subscription fee to access it
merry talon
the only reason people think developers should be allowed to set whatever price they want are just complacent due to the rampant predatory capitalism that goes on elsewhere in their lives
periodt
cunning raft
i love the unique ways he finds to advertise his scam
waxen panther
amazes me how many pepegas cry about it
limpid comet
wow
just, wow
That whole thread is really disappointing
Do people not realize that spigotmc as a whole is a free service?
Of course it's ran by donations, but you're not paying them to host your premium resources
zealous wedge
i mean are you surprised? premium resource devs are, as a whole whiny, entitled, and stupid
formal turret
ya, let people charge what they want but have spigot take a % cut
unkempt drift
pretty sure hangar wont have premium resources but will encourage developers to offer premium support.
formal turret
that's probably the way i'd go if i released anything
unkempt drift
there aren't really any guidelines laid out yet for hangar
golden gust
Yea, 100% no premium resources, but, pretty donate links are yay, last I recall; not 100% discussed yet
But, fuck that entitlement
I mean, their literal main argument is "I used spigot as my life income and I expect spigot to cater towards my requirements for that"
upper flicker
Hi, I did resources at spigot when we rolled out premium and for a couple(?) years after
there is no fucking way
in the world
that it will ever
fucking happen
golden gust
Not to mention, wanting to call kangarko out for his fucking marketerring wankish response
Why I built MineAcademy is because I wanted to connect people and give them the tools to become self-reliant etc., so I'd much rather welcome liberating changes here than having to build my own marketplace or move to MCM.
I have literally yet to, in my years here, seen anybody come from his course capable of even fucking writing a hello world app using OOP
only thing I ever see is people who'll preach that they know java because of that course, but, blatantely not even know where to start; it's moronic
unreal quarry
formal turret
are they videos?
potent fossil
yes and they teach you not how to use bukkit but how to use his library that abstracts most of bukkit into an even shittier api
didnt think it was possible but it is indeed
formal turret
how much is it? looking around i see 200 and 600
but the price isn't on the website that I could see
lot of money to spend on something you might not enjoy lol
unreal quarry
@formal turret is your avatar one of the goomba guys from that old super mario bros movie from the 80s?
formal turret
ah no it's a frog decoration that i found somewhere
golden gust
1
formal turret
and then a friend added eyebrows to it
cosmic raft
π±
sharp sentinel
i mean are you surprised? premium resource devs are, as a whole whiny, entitled, and stupid
s/premium resource devs/the spigot community
π
ancient bolt
....
s/spigot/minecraft/
potent fossil
im helping this poor guy from my school who is taking fundamentals of programming and he's struggling to get the latest balance for a customer given an example transaction ledger (just balance updates)
it's hard to really simplify explanations lol
trying tho
true canyon
Oh wow what a shitshow thread. I was wondering when the next kangarko thread would happen!
Money ruined this community :(
Was he trying to set his mediocre chat plugin to 30 dollars or something?
@potent fossil practice explaining stuff to a newbie is actually useful for your brain too! Nice work.
ancient bolt
Is this why it's so hard to explain tacos?
potent fossil
I mean, I've explained it as best as I know how without starting to write down explanations of methods lmao. But I think it's still over their head. I think we're getting somewhere now though.
warm anchor
When will go live? 
ancient bolt
a good approach is to ask questions which guide them to come up with the answer on their own
potent fossil
He used replaceAll instead of substring to get rid of a constant single character and I just ended up like "okay yeah that's fine, it's just overkill" and we're leaving it there
ancient bolt
but that takes a lot of skill and practice
potent fossil
That's a good idea demon
untold copper
gm bois uwu
waxen panther
gn
untold copper
ok gn uwu
stiff yarrow
If you read spigot forums you don goofed
waxen panther
Reading kangerko posts is the best part of the minecraft community tho :(
stiff yarrow
Why canβt people just sell stuff without being a dingus at the same time
waxen panther
Scroll up a little, someone posted da link
void void
thanks!!
red dune
Is Magma any good? Or is Sponge better?
lean kiln
If you want to use mods and plugins together use sponge
Magma/combining Bukkit and Forge = Bad Idea
lots of bugs
wide hazel
@true canyon money ruins many things
vestal jasper
potent fossil
can yall funny react kangaroos post with me so im not the only 1
green turret
There's so much entitlement, it hurts.
potent fossil
I ordered a new fucking bidet cause some bitch broke mine
it'll be here today
fuckin bitches breaking my bidet
green turret
Where the hell do people find the rationale behind shit like this
[...] Spigot should also understand its responsibility that there are people who rely on revenue from this platform to make their ends meet.
potent fossil
Spigot understands that. It just doesn't fucking want that responsibility and has disavowed it explicitly
So they're just crybabies
green turret
"I have decided that I want to make a livelihood from collecting bottles, but people have started recycling bottles more now, so I am not able to pay my rent. It is of utmost importance that we resume past littering practices."
potent fossil
kek
mossy vessel
Gosh what did I just read
wide chasm
Just another "my plugin is worth more than twenty dollars, let me set the price higher" thread.
mossy vessel
Ye
potent fossil
except this time written by a literal psychopath
unreal quarry
Link me
mossy vessel
Honestly, I'd whish not everyone second one would be so entitled about their resources.
potent fossil
plz laugh react op with me
i hate you all for the moment
but this feeling will subside
mossy vessel
Drama time
potent fossil
nmf is adorable
pastel pivot
Unacceptable discord practices
mossy vessel
unreal quarry
plz laugh react op with me
@potent fossil reacted and commented ^_^
Now that the drama machine has been fed, I'm going to find out why Tera NA servers still aren't online o/
green turret
Cat your last post was great.
I still really want to rip into all of these twerps, but I know I'll regret it π
golden gust
it's just comical and so much typical "premium" plugin dev in there
The literal only time I've seen him in the community is plugging his stuff, demanding his way, or basically tryna pester aikar n here for some reason
unreal quarry
But, they gots kids to feed
golden gust
I just wanna see md say that he's done with premium resources one day
unreal quarry
runs away
wide chasm
He has employees to pay! Oh wait nvm
potent fossil
@potent fossil reacted and commented ^_^
@unreal quarry <3
dapper nacelle
doesn't spigot get a cut of the premium resource's revenue?
twin lagoon
if they wanted to do so they'd have to handle payments
unreal quarry
Ffs garko has such a punchable face. I always forget this until I see his avatar on the forums
dapper nacelle
its still probably worth their time tho
golden gust
accepting cash puts a lot of financial responsibilities on spigot to the point that they'd need to hire an account and all that, file taxes, etc
Not to mention, spigot would also then have to deal with aspects like disputes, etc
dapper nacelle
but aren't there taxes involved now regardless?
golden gust
for spigot? no
golden gust
Well, their donation stuff might have some aspects, but, that's a lot easier to handle money in vs money in/out
It's not spigots role to deal with the tax of premium plugins
That's on the authors
dapper nacelle
so basically all the authors are committing tax fraud
viral hornet
Ffs garko has such a punchable face. I always forget this until I see his avatar on the forums
similar to mason's tongue
fluid elm
guys would this be a useful tool?
a local papermc download client, so you dont have to bother with the website, and a config generator
twin lagoon
mason 
dapper nacelle
build tools?
fluid elm
btw this is my alt to @visual egret
twin lagoon
oski, no
unreal quarry
guys would this be a useful tool?
a local papermc download client, so you dont have to bother with the website, and a config generator
@fluid elm is that a serious question?
olive marlin
guys would this be a useful tool?
a local papermc download client, so you dont have to bother with the website, and a config generator
@fluid elm you mean a simple wget command?
dapper nacelle
does paper have an api to get the latest jar
twin lagoon
buildtools
wide chasm
I think that already exists
twin lagoon
o
unreal quarry
Maybe he doesn't know how spigot distributes their jar..
twin lagoon
dylan, kinda
fluid elm
@dapper nacelle #announcements
dapper nacelle
with buildtools you have to build it yourself
twin lagoon
you have to specify your own mc version
but you can get the latest build of that version
dapper nacelle
cool
olive marlin
Oski for editing configuration, you can use chorus if you want a fancy minecraft config editor.
dapper nacelle
honestly why isn't there an update notification system yet in paper
golden gust
/version
fluid elm
dapper nacelle
but can you update via a command?
golden gust
no
viral hornet
why tho
dapper nacelle
ok on second thought, that'd be impossible
olive marlin
It's not safe to.
viral hornet
OR beta π₯Ί
golden gust
Basically, we don't care to add auto-updating abilities to paper because fuck that
golden gust
And, any aspect of updating automatically would require something before paper actually starts to be able to pull it off
golden gust
which, really, if you wanna do that, go modify paperclip to magically pull from the API, just, I have nothing against booting people for encouraging that type of stupidity
dapper nacelle
auto updates are nice tho
olive marlin
Not if they break your world.
golden gust
until you login to your world deleted because of some bug
dapper nacelle
but it probably shouldn't be handled on paper's end tho
olive marlin
Paper twice this year broke world data.
dapper nacelle
0_o
olive marlin
Once it was not recoverable.
twin lagoon
and that last happened less than a month ago
dapper nacelle
if anyone updates manually their world data would break either way
viral hornet
Backups 
olive marlin
You should always backup and nice to test stuff before.
golden gust
it's almost like we tell people consistently to test stuff and use backups
dapper nacelle
smh just add functional tests
olive marlin
These broken builds are usually for minutes or a few hours. But still plenty of people complain because they auto updated and it broke everything.
wide chasm
Automatic updates are only nice for test servers imo
golden gust
functional tests don't work
unreal quarry
I think I'm gonna build an auto updater for Purpur just to see how bad it is :3
dapper nacelle
you'd need a script that'd set up a test server from the jar
but its beyond me how you are going to verify anything
wide chasm
I just wget the latest file and start that one for my test server
olive marlin
Mojang is adding testing framework to 1.17, maybe it'll help. Idk if @vernal moth managed to get it to work.
Or rather some mocked test server or something.
dapper nacelle
that would be cool althought I doubt its not obfuscated
olive marlin
You never can fully automate the tests though.
golden gust
Issue is that tests are written in two ways
- Stuff you can predict
- Stuff you can't predict but have to throw in there because, well, it happened
olive marlin
A lot of things is extremely complex.
golden gust
Even with tests, you're not guaranteed to be safe in any form or capacity
golden gust
if mojang gave us this cool tool with tests included, yea, we could look into adopting those
But, I can't see people being super eager to write tests into obfuscated to all heck code
olive marlin
I doubt Mojang would share the test source code, but it'd be extremely nice if we could run them.
unreal quarry
Test: is obfuscated
Result: yes
golden gust
they don't need to share the code for the tests
green turret
Hey Billy do you like my post on the kangarko thread? I couldn't help it.
golden gust
just the actual tests and some way to bootstrap them
olive marlin
Maybe once Paper hard-forks and changes to some sane mappings, people will be more eager.
unreal quarry
Can we remove the nullability annotations tests after hard fork? Pretty please???
golden gust
I mean, I like the idea of that being a thing
Let's just move everything to Optionals
We'll be the next sponge!
runs
unreal quarry
quits mc
golden gust
I just want some Optional<Void>'s
wide chasm
Nullability annotations > Optional
limpid comet
cat you don't deserve that much power
olive marlin
But the nullability annotations are not enforced :/
unreal quarry
A lot of them are just dead wrong, too
unreal quarry
Or annoyingly right
olive marlin
Had issues with Paper returning null from a @NotNull method.
I just wish it was enforcement properly.
dapper nacelle
the Optional api is overhead
golden gust
if it's a paper one, we can look into it
wide chasm
You can enforce the annotations on runtime when compiling with IJ
golden gust
if it's a spigot one, we can still look into it but uurrrgh
olive marlin
Cat Paper broke Spigot method. But Proxi fixed it a while back :)
golden gust
ah
unreal quarry
olive marlin
Last I checked, infer complained about 300+ null dereferences on Paper source code.
unreal quarry
Set it on fire, please
golden gust
you can disable that if it really makes you sad
golden gust
I mean, really we need to follow the nullability over into -server
olive marlin
Doesn't the MC plugin disable these errors only on events etc?
golden gust
Really just need to scream at mojang to pick a lib for that which persists those...
what?
When mojang has a lib picked, it makes it easier to justify having server-side nullability annotations
That's defo on the list of stuff i want when we hard-fork
unreal quarry
The problem with the annotations are they are so overreaching and inconsistent that it's become commonplace to just flat out ignore them now
That's not a good thing
golden gust
Well, yea, but, ideally you fix that instead of just disabling them
unreal quarry
Easier to just disable them. There was nothing wrong with the way we did things before having them :/
golden gust
#MakeAirGetBlockDataBlowUp
easier, yea, but, like, why not
if you do it properly, it's easier for everybody
unreal quarry
I've suggested before to make air return a noop meta
golden gust
issue here is that the person who added those in the first place clearly had little experience with the API
unreal quarry
Then we can fix that ones annotation
golden gust
Issue is that that changes behavior, I'd rather it just threw an illegal state instead of returning a dodgy object
unreal quarry
I also hate that we have a lot of "has" checks for things that we use before doing "get" on them... But then the ide complains about maybe null. Fucking pointless
Lol
golden gust
should just use optionals
wide chasm
I just inline disable it for such cases
golden gust
I mean, in part, I jest, but in many dumb areas of they API, they kinda make sense
unreal quarry
I just inline disable it for such cases
@wide chasm that's working harder, not smarter
No thx
golden gust
alt-enter
wide chasm
Makes it clear that you know what you're doing and also stops the IDE complaining
wide chasm
The benefits of knowing where null is allowed/expected far outweighs the couple of cases this happens
golden gust
it's really just down to ancient API design
unreal quarry
I want the tests removed so we won't have to be so strict on adding these annotations in places it's hard to or pointless to
In the places they make sense it's great to use them
golden gust
Use the undefined nullability annotation for those
unreal quarry
No idea what that one even is, but if it's the fix why hasn't it been done?
golden gust
it's a bukkit annotation
It's used in a few areas, just, erm, once again, the API was not designed in a good way for explicit nullability to not be a massive headache
wide chasm
Write an entire IDE plugin to be smarter and recognize such cases and disable the warning /s
golden gust
Nor is there a sane way for an IDE to have rules to say, "if X returned Y, Z is not null", because there is no concept of time in there
wide chasm
Imagine if it was written in Assembly; people would still complain about poor performance!
dapper nacelle
Idk why they'd write anything that is not website based in php
golden gust
i mean, it works
php's worked on standalone things for years
people write daemons in PHP for dealing with stuff like email queues, etc
dapper nacelle
Emails I could somewhat understand
golden gust
I mean
potent fossil
imagine barely understanding how to program at all and still having opinions like that
golden gust
Why would you ship a web browser for your desktop app?
potent fossil
dapper nacelle
Electron
golden gust
yea, but, why?
Why not java?
C# has cross platform options too last I recall
You go for what you know, or what works
PHP is perfectly fine for that stuff, stuff like opcache means that you're generally not too far off native apps last I recall
golden gust
it's a scripting language
limpid comet
I have little PHP knowledge except for preprocessing some stuff on a website I made like 47 years ago
yeah
golden gust
it just happens to be mostly used and primary designed for web servers to call into
limpid comet
I think php is pretty nifty
dapper nacelle
doesn't php have to be re-instantiated on every request
limpid comet
it's not every day you find a programming language with two ps in the name
golden gust
No
dapper nacelle
also its not the greatest at dealing with loads of small requests at the same time
golden gust
That's generally just stupid apache installs
php-fpm will run muuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccchhh faster than libphp
cedar spade
undefined nullability
golden gust
or whatever the apache module stupidity is
dapper nacelle
php is not optimized for keeping an open connection for stuff like web sockets since you generally don't want to keep the php instance alive
void void
how to download 1.16.3 ?
golden gust
you have to keep the instance alive anyways
void void
i can't find it
void void
where
golden gust
#announcements pins
waxen panther
@cedar spade
cedar spade
@waxen panther
untold copper
GUYS
So this project came up
I had to do a survey irl
BUT ITS TOO LATE
So
Can you PLEASE Help me out?????
https://forms.gle/PQjjGc2r6c8FmHx7A
Thanks in advance!!!!
dapper nacelle
lol a 3 question survey
untold copper
No timeeee
limpid comet
answered
mossy vessel
What kind of trite survey is that
cedar spade
Yes
3/3 would put question 1 in the form description instead of the actual question text area again
worn ember
Pr wen
void void
Can someone give me the paper 1.16.3.jar link ?
worn ember
.download
limber knotBOT
void void
i can't find 16.3
waxen panther
1.16.3 is EOL for paper support
worn ember
Is .4 even out?
waxen panther
been out for a little while now lol
void void
dm me the link pls
mossy vessel
9 days
waxen panther
nope!
mossy vessel
How would you miss that
waxen panther
you can do it yourself π
void void
i can't find it
waxen panther
I believe in you
waxen panther
that was the 1.17 snapshot lol
mossy vessel
There has been an rc
worn ember
waxen panther
ded is stoopid
mossy vessel
yes
worn ember
:(
elfin pumice
do you guys know some plugins to blacklist words and caps lock? paper 1.16.4, ping me
vernal moth
Mojang is adding testing framework to 1.17, maybe it'll help. Idk if @vernal moth managed to get it to work.
@olive marlin didn't play with it yet
untold copper
@elfin pumice grief prevention to blacklist (just another feature in that plugin) and chc pro
or any good chat plugin
waxen panther
chatcontrol 
cedar spade
real gamers use oxygen
unreal quarry
oh, well this is lovely.. i just learned Windows 10 added a new "feature" that cant be disabled or uninstalled :/
cedar spade
wait
unreal quarry
scary part is it deals with the web cam π¦
time to tape up my cam and muffle my mic :3
worn ember
Yeet the cam
mossy vessel
My cam is always unplugged if I don't need it π
cedar spade
...uninstall skype? I delete skype on every Windows 10 install I've done and haven't seen that
worn ember
You can force delete it through PS
cedar spade
oh it looks like an insider thing
worn ember
Ur an outsider
cedar spade
no it's a patch
Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
I don't think you even need to force uninstall it, pretty sure I just removed it from Settings
unreal quarry
yeah not finding any way to delete it
only hide it's icons form the taskbar
everything on google says it cant be deleted as well
cedar spade
Do you have Skype installed?
unreal quarry
no
cedar spade
Double check in settings? Everything I've seen suggests it relies on Skype to work
unreal quarry
am i blind? i dont see it listed anywhere
golden gust
It's a UWP app these days
cedar spade
In Settings
golden gust
or, there is the desktop app available too
unreal quarry
wtf, how many settings does microsoft need?
waxen panther
yes.
cedar spade
UWP apps are apps packaged for Windows 10/Xbox(/10 Mobile back in the day)
One, they've been phasing out Control Panel for about 8 years now
waxen panther
I think we've only what
waxen panther
another 22 years left?
cedar spade
probably
I mean
if you haven't discovered Settings in the past 8 years, I don't think you can blame Microsoft at that point
unreal quarry
i havent really used windows in the last 20 years
cedar spade
There's a button for it right in the W10 start menu, there was one in various parts of W8's UI too iirc
But yeah as far as I can tell the new icon is 100% just a link to an existing Skype feature, and I can't even find the button on a Windows build that's meant to already have it
unreal quarry
i found skype in that weird borderless and watered down settings window
uninstalled it, button was still there
so i just hid the button
minor badge
@cedar spade uwu
unreal quarry
doubt its really gone, but fuck it. i wont be using this OS for long anyways
minor badge
mr pinapl man 
waxen panther
good morning ms pr oxi !
cedar spade
good afternoon
minor badge
mr josh epic !
cedar spade
ah yes
waxen panther
how was test !
cedar spade
broc is mr epic
waxen panther
30 min debugging epic !
void void
@dense trout
golden gust
Please don't randomly ping people
dense trout
golden gust
extra flavour
untold copper
hAI
umbral tiger
@twin lagoon π₯Ί