👍
#general
finite wave
terse marsh
Do we have any persons here looking to code a mod, obviously paid?
limber knotBOT
please read the rules, Razva
finite wave
500$
tired bear
$10 per KB
limber knotBOT
also, 1 Bitcoin
finite wave
yes
tired bear
spam comments randomly
knotty nebula
Is the latest 1.16 build generally stable for a server +- 30 players?
finite wave
No
tired bear
when devs charge you custom plugin jars in a per KB basis.
twin lagoon
just add a bunch of trash to the plugin
tired bear
finite wave
Time to code in kotlin and shade stdlib in
finite wave
Remember ACF, IDB, and the utils too
terse marsh
Ah ok sorry
void void
nah per bit
bleak urchin
I bet these kids also asked for Paper 1.16 ETA
These are reviews on a discontinued plugin
tardy lynx
pepperspigit 1.17 wen?
jolly crown
saltspigget when?
void void
tfw my server either dies cuz I use spigot and chunk gen lags everything
or it dies because paper crashes
finite wave
paper crashes?
bleak urchin
No joke, this is on the fork of the above plugin
void void
one time it just froze, the other there was really a crash report
cedar spade
PaperSpigot? I've only heard of Paper
limber knotBOT
@cedar spade [Auto] We're now known as Paper.
finite wave
pepper**
cedar spade
s/Paper/Pepper
finite wave
@void void Provie how to reproduce your error and report to the issue tracker.
void void
idk how to reproduce it, it's something related to chunk gen
I sent the log on #paper-dev
tardy lynx
yeah chunk gen is super slow on my server
void void
EntityDismountEvent may only be triggered synchronously.
tardy lynx
it's a raspberry pi so yeah lmao
woven otter
tardy lynx
generates like 3 chunks every 10 seconds
void void
should I post that on github even tho theres no reproduce steps?
all I know is it has to do with nether chunk gen
heavy jetty
.flags
limber knotBOT
Optimized & Recommended JVM Startup Flags: https://mcflags.emc.gs
tranquil bone
How much does a Minecon 2013 cape go for right now?
limber knotBOT
aren't they like bound to an account? 
void void
buying cape codes already did
cedar spade
TIL thanos snaps violate the Mojang terms of service
limber knotBOT
;)
hazy hemlock
java.lang.Throwable: [ERROR] Illegal PlayerChunkMap::addEntity for world world_nether: EntityPlayer['kapo'/9371, uuid='168a081a-34ce-35ea-81e4-18b181e4e65e', l='ServerLevel[world]', x=1.74, y=154.00, z=0.90, cx=0, cz=0, tl=205490, v=true, d=false](kapo at 1.7432836079832121,154.0,0.9047980618999554)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.PlayerChunkMap.addEntity(PlayerChunkMap.java:1961)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.ChunkProviderServer.addEntity(ChunkProviderServer.java:938)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.WorldServer.registerEntity(WorldServer.java:1391)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.WorldServer.addPlayer0(WorldServer.java:1118)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.WorldServer.addPlayerJoin(WorldServer.java:1094)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.PlayerList.postChunkLoadJoin(PlayerList.java:260)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.PlayerList.lambda$null$1(PlayerList.java:213)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.PlayerConnection.tick(PlayerConnection.java:150)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.NetworkManager.a(NetworkManager.java:373)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.ServerConnection.c(ServerConnection.java:142)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.MinecraftServer.b(MinecraftServer.java:1378)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.DedicatedServer.b(DedicatedServer.java:377)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.MinecraftServer.a(MinecraftServer.java:1212)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.MinecraftServer.v(MinecraftServer.java:1000)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at net.minecraft.server.v1_16_R1.MinecraftServer.lambda$a$0(MinecraftServer.java:177)
.... [17:30:10 WARN]: at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
minor badge
yuckie gnome 
ancient bolt
cinnamon is still on xorg 😦
upper flicker
ancient bolt
and it has a few annoying bugs sometimes
I hate gnome too but maybe I can work out those issues
limber knotBOT
I hate gnome too. :P
Finally I can speak
Hi there, I've been trying to investigate how paper would be better over Spigot in terms of performance.
Most posts that I've seen on the Spigot forums and Reddit have blanket responses without justification on how Paper is more optimized and better.
ancient bolt
yeah as expected window management in gnome is a lot smoother
heady spear
@vernal moth https://godotengine.org/article/godot-40-gets-sdf-based-real-time-global-illumination cool shit
ancient bolt
everything in cinnamon is chopy for me 😦
it looks like shit but I just need to get my themes setup
limber knotBOT
Have you tried MATE?
ancient bolt
yes it's even worse
limber knotBOT
META is love
vernal moth
Haven't read the article yet
vernal moth
But saw it
limber knotBOT
LOL META
ancient bolt
mate makes me feel like I'm using a system that's 20 years old
heady spear
It’s interesting
limber knotBOT
But it's classic and timeless though
ancient bolt
its gross
limber knotBOT
._.
ancient bolt
god the gnome file manager
limber knotBOT
any UI design after XP was a mistake fite me
ancient bolt
worst file manager I've ever used 😦
I can try and remap everything to use nemo instead
limber knotBOT
Gnome UI is a dumpster fire.
hallow tinsel
Gnome is pretty awesome
you just need a few extensions to fix some strange choices
limber knotBOT
I rather use Unity.
hallow tinsel
Unity was nice
ancient bolt
these icons might kill me before I've had a chance to install a new icon pack
vernal moth
For a second I thought you guys meant the game engine
limber knotBOT
Yeah it was
vernal moth
Since city and I are talking about godot
And I was like
Who uses unity over godot in 2020 lol
limber knotBOT
Am I supposed to ask paper related questions in #paper-dev?
vernal moth
Generally ye
slim nymph
Info "Most posts that I've seen on the Spigot forums and Reddit have blanket responses without justification on how Paper is more optimized and better."
Well, I'm the primary person who put performance work into Spigot even many many years ago. I stopped contributing ages ago and have been working for years on performance for Paper. We have over 540 patches, about half at least improving performance in various ways, many of significant level
We use enterprise profilers to diagnose performance impacts and optimize the code all around. there are tons of micro optimizations that add up to decent gains, and tons of major changes too
stuff like Async Chunk Loading, Major optimizations to the light engine, improving priority of chunks
then add in TONS of API
void void
spigot sucks 👎
vernal moth
I mean, it's pretty easy. Open up a spigot server. Set fly speed to 5. Fly into one direction
Then do that in a paper server
finite wave
Can't even respond to this post https://i.imgur.com/VLYLMxq.png
hallow tinsel
is Godot used a lot? I’ve heard it’s good, but never seen a game that uses it
slim nymph
we have years of constant innovation and advancement. Spigot has been pretty stale for years
vernal moth
is Godot used a lot? I’ve heard it’s good, but never seen a game that uses it
@hallow tinsel well, it's only reached greater appeal with 3.0, so most games are still in dev
limber knotBOT
I was trying to compare what would run better on my toaster. And it's really hard to tell.
But I did notice that it was a bit laggy at first with paper.
vernal moth
@void void, your messages aren't helpful in any way
void void
ye s they are
limber knotBOT
I was testing on 1.15.2
void void
md_5 sucks
vernal moth
If you don't have anything meaningful to say, we would appreciate you to stay silent
ancient bolt
I kicked him
vernal moth
Personal harrasment is not welcome in this community
merry talon
mini sucks
heavy jetty
and the paper discord is much more helpful than the spigot discord in my experience
hallow tinsel
oh ok, it would be great to see more games in Godot
heavy jetty
speaking of being helpful... can anyone help me figure out what https://timings.aikar.co/?id=2e91e813648a4db290071bf7c3b63911 means? It says SyncChunkLoad is causing a lot of lag
I've never seen SyncChunkLoad before
idk about other ppl but spigot is great, paper wouldn't exist without it. But, Paper is better to use for servers since it has a bunch of improvements over spigot, has a really nice website that doesn't make you download buildtools, and it has source code available on github instead of making you sign a CLA
vernal moth
There is no hatred, at least not by the team. We value the work that is out into maintaining the platform. We just disagree with decision upstream makes
quasi valley
paper wouldn't exist about it
limber knotBOT
LOL I do like the website
vernal moth
The hatred is created by a limited amount of community members, as that person that was just removed
quasi valley
paper would be better off if Spigot just stopped
vernal moth
We deal with that
limber knotBOT
It was just weird that Spigot was really fast when I was flying around, but it was a bit slower for paper at first.
quasi valley
sounds like pempkin and vagdedes like api changes with pretty much 0 community input and no open source development cycle =^]
vernal moth
Paper would have some issues at first to adopt to having to maintain the full stack
But most likely the community would step up and strive
limber knotBOT
Also, hitting mobs also seemed to behave like the vanilla server.
vernal moth
Which is why we have the dream to break off with spigot
And we are on the way to make that dream happen
limber knotBOT
Does Spigot pregenerate the world when you first start it up?
quasi valley
I am not saying Spigot shouldn't exist, I'm saying Paper would be better off if it didn't, responding to "Paper wouldn't exist without Spigot"
vernal moth
No info
celest coyote
No
limber knotBOT
or a part of it?
heavy jetty
didn't paper start because of spigot though? I might be wrong but that's just what I learned abt it
quasi valley
yes, but that doesn't say anything about Spigot's current state?
limber knotBOT
Oh I thought it was more cause it was basically lag free when I was flying around.
I'm trying to run a server from a Raspberry Pi
formal geyser
I am not saying Spigot shouldn't exist, I'm saying Paper would be better off if it didn't, responding to "Paper wouldn't exist without Spigot"
@quasi valley true
vernal moth
Paper couldn't exist without Spigot in the first place. It can become independent, but Spigot was the cause of its creation
@lethal locust the reason of papers existence is spigots bad community management
heavy jetty
Kneny I meant that paper exists because spigot existed ||and didn't do everything great||, not that Spigot existing now causes Paper to exist now
limber knotBOT
and it's hard to tell if it's laggy because of the hardware or something else.
formal geyser
I use Spigot as my library, Paper as my server. I like them both
@lethal locust To support both: spigot & paper on ur plugins?
vernal moth
It's just history repeating itself really
formal geyser
?
quasi valley
the more people use Paper instead of Spigot, the better Paper can actually enforce community driven api and development
celest coyote
Wat
vernal moth
Bukkit had bad community management, so craftbukkit++ and spigot where created
Now the same happens with spigot
quasi valley
wat
formal geyser
the more people use Paper instead of Spigot, the better Paper can actually enforce community driven api and development
@quasi valley yes, I cant use all of the paper api as my plugins would be banned from spigotmc if they can only run on paper
quasi valley
hopefully that'll be fixed soon with a Paper resource page, Leonhard :p
formal geyser
Papers Api has already a lot of cool benefits
quasi valley
^
vernal moth
This week am gonna put into hangar
quick pasture
vernal moth
To make sure paper has a place for plugin devs
void void
tldr; fuck spigot
tired pawn
no one would opt for spigot > paper
i myself was waiting for paper to update to 1.16 as paper has many benefits over spigot
void void
it has
void void
i like both, in uteros better
tired pawn
paper has both performance & api support for devs, i don't see why you wouldn't use it o.O
formal geyser
can't remember the last time any large network used spigot instead of paper
@tired locust Working at a 800+ player server
void void
they're dum then
limber knotBOT
barty: nowhere
formal geyser
So yes, your so right 😂
limber knotBOT
that isn't tracked
formal geyser
i like both, in uteros better
@void void Nirvana is great
void void
yeah
formal geyser
But I like nevermind more xd
vernal moth
Bad base of stars
void void
neverminds a bit too pop
tired pawn
if we were to show huge servers on paper, it would be a majority as well
vernal moth
tired pawn
bigger servers benefit more from being on paper than spigot
formal geyser
https://minidigger.github.io/paperstats/
@vernal moth its constantly improving
very nice
void void
well there was a lot of hype for this update
quasi valley
every server benefits more from being on Paper - from downloading something to run to more plugins using better api and just chunk loading for your survival
formal geyser
true kenny
quasi valley
there's pretty much no reason to stick with CB/Spigot unless you REALLY care about (no) gameplay changes
tired pawn
the async chunk api is very nice lol
formal geyser
yes
heavy jetty
I like the edit kneny
quasi valley
:p
formal geyser
async chunks are important af
limber knotBOT
KnenyTV: Paper fixes gameplay issues though that cb/spigot have?
heavy jetty
idk why some ppl want to unpatch exploits
tired pawn
no hard feelings btw phoenix : p
quasi valley
maybe someone wants to stay true to slow chunk loading™️?
limber knotBOT
(not that paper doesn't have its fair share of vanilla breaking bucks but ¯_(ツ)_/¯)
*bugs
quasi valley
and yeah lol exploits, that's what I mean with "REALLY" lol
heavy jetty
introducing Termite: Paper with bugs
tired pawn
that is the only reason I could see someone opt for spigot
but even then papers benefits outweigh the risks/bugs
limber knotBOT
- is just untrue
worn ember
eh
limber knotBOT
they seem to be the same 👀
lots of very salty people on all sites
but that's politics for you
vernal moth
I mean, history will proove that we are on the right side
tired pawn
at the end of the day though it doesn't really matter
if you want to use paper then use paper
if you don't then don't
vernal moth
Just like history prooved that for spigot back then
limber knotBOT
"on the right side" that's what I mean
worn ember
paper cannot exist without spigot tho, and spigot can perfectly exist without paper
limber knotBOT
lmao
worn ember
¯_(ツ)_/¯
vernal moth
Paper can exists without spigot
heavy jetty
I hate to hijack this wonderful convo but what does SyncChunkLoad in timings mean
vernal moth
We can hard fork
limber knotBOT
so why didn't it happen?
vernal moth
I hate to hijack this wonderful convo but what does SyncChunkLoad in timings mean
@heavy jetty you should use #paper-help for ontopic stuff
worn ember
i mean, i'm not stopping you
heavy jetty
ok thanks mini
worn ember
but then you'd lose spigots entire base
limber knotBOT
as long as major plugins aren't breaking spigot (or even bukkit) compatibility spigot will not go anywhere
and I don't see that happen
vernal moth
Oh yeah, the forums would survive a paper take over, it will be interesting to see how that will work
worn ember
unless you can provide a stable alternative to their resource system (which is hangar hopefully)
formal geyser
Lets just get rid of spigot🤷♂️
limber knotBOT
I sure hope hanger will have premium plugins :P
tired pawn
i appreciate work from both sides 
vernal moth
But like, once we have a nice resource system, our forums will strive too
formal geyser
I sure hope hanger will have premium plugins :P
@phoenix616#0000 haha hopefully
Want 2 sell punishcontrol there xd
worn ember
dont count on it
serene bolt
I sure hope hanger will have premium plugins :P
dear god no
limber knotBOT
then good luck getting people to support it, lmao
tired pawn
and when i update to 1.16 in 7 days you best bet imma be using a custom paper fork
limber knotBOT
just get bought by curseforge 👀
formal geyser
And we have ideas
@vernal moth sounds cool
worn ember
why make resources for a platform when you can make it on another platform and ask money for it
quasi valley
just get bought by whatever bought curseforge*
formal geyser
hope hanger allows you to spam e-mails there too 😉
@spare venture tf?
limber knotBOT
nobody allows spam emails, lol
worn ember
i'm playing the devils advocate here, but thats how things go
vernal moth
If paper ever becomes independent, that would be cool. Do I personally like it? No, I still want these 2 forks to be connected
The forums will remain the same though, so you better get each community to like each other, because they will co-exist one day @vernal moth
@lethal locust just like spigot and bukkit coexist today?
limber knotBOT
I mean dev bukkit forums still has people to post so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
vernal moth
Time will tell and we will make sure to handle it so that the community benefits the most
waxen panther
It'll just mean people have to post on songoda and other shit platforms sadly
limber knotBOT
lmao
worn ember
i just hope it stays maintained for many more years
quasi valley
people who literally can't live without premium can stay on Spigot =^]
limber knotBOT
a couple hundred dollars a month more is nice to have :P
quasi valley
just create an onlyfans or something
limber knotBOT
nah, proprietary software does
vernal moth
We are
Paper team is a team
Hangar will not have premium resources
Sounds like two big spigot issues are addressed
quasi valley
^
tired pawn
well you'd expect them to be good if you're paying money or you would hope so at least lol
vernal moth
Another two would be having proper mappings and doing sane API evolution
tired pawn
not really ideal to pay money for something that is bad
limber knotBOT
tbh I still think that merging the development of the server and the hosting of resources into one thing is an issue
why not just have that separate
worn ember
but can i run my plugin on 1.8?
tired pawn
no
opaque flax
God I hate doing g multi version support
worn ember
smh competely missing the sarcasm
vernal moth
tbh I still think that merging the development of the server and the hosting of resources into one thing is an issue
@phoenix616#0000 because being the offical platform for X is driving traffic. And it will drive traffic to the forums
formal geyser
I hate multiversion support, too
waxen panther
ore 1.5*
vernal moth
The up coming paper resource repo
worn ember
its where you store planes
limber knotBOT
MiniDigger: and I think that is an issue
limber knotBOT
just offer multiple different ways to download resources on the page, why does one have to be "official"?
vernal moth
No, it's where you launch your paper planes/plugins from
formal geyser
My private one oc
worn ember
i cant even afford a snickers
formal geyser
No, it's where you launch your paper planes/plugins from
@vernal moth Paper planes usually dont fly for an too long time :c
vernal moth
just offer multiple different ways to download resources on the page, why does one have to be "official"?
@phoenix616#0000 I mean, hangar is open source, everybody can host an instance
celest coyote
They do if there is no gravity
vernal moth
And it's not even said that paper would host an instance, paper could endorce one
quasi valley
ur jus too dum ded
limber knotBOT
but would paper link them? 👀
formal geyser
They do if there is no gravity
@celest coyote But I like gravity
limber knotBOT
could just go for a decentralized solution from the start
quasi valley
it is 😂
celest coyote
Gravity is overrated
limber knotBOT
I would gladly host all of my resources myself ¯_(ツ)_/¯
formal geyser
Gravity is overrated
@celest coyote I like it
worn ember
good thing its fading kickash
formal geyser
xd
quasi valley
yeah right imagine following 20 different sites for updates
vernal moth
Federation is hard phoenix
worn ember
ohno he tagged a contributor wiz is gonna ban him
limber knotBOT
KnenyTV: decentralization != having to check everything individually
kindred storm
anyone have a saved version of the mineacademy thread?
formal geyser
?!
quasi valley
eh don't really see the point of that
limber knotBOT
or are you checking all of your apt repos manually for updates?
quasi valley
yes, you don't?!!
formal geyser
pacman > apt
limber knotBOT
MiniDigger: not really. tons of solutions exist (just not really focused on minecraft I guess)
worn ember
make everyone that creates a thread on the forums self host it
formal geyser
worn ember
maybe that'll make them think twice
vernal moth
@vernal moth but how will a plugin that uses vps, dedicated, cloud servers, or a plugin that's constantly maintained be brought to Hangar?
@lethal locust mmh?
vernal moth
Again, hangar will have a way to support developers
worn ember
problem solved
formal geyser
@vernal moth Hanger should bring an api to auto update plugins using ci/cd
Again, hangar will have a way to support developers
@vernal moth cool
which is?
@lethal locust ci/cd?
@vernal moth Hanger should bring an api to auto update plugins using ci/cd
@formal geyser please tell me ur opinion 😛
limber knotBOT
I sure hope it wont be backed by ads like curseforge is 👀
worn ember
the amount of tags tho xD
formal geyser
bastard
@spare venture want to get banned again?
vernal moth
Nah phoenix, that's complicated
formal geyser
dont be that hostile
pulsar wigeon
what the fuck lmao
worn ember
ohnonono
pulsar wigeon
how about stop pinging everyone 10 times for a single thing
that wasn't even directed at you
no need to get offended for ded
tired pawn
mob mentality, ban barty!
worn ember
limber knotBOT
inb4 PaperCoin crypto currency to fund hangar
formal geyser
u got kicked from here 2 times already for behaving the way u do afaik
Please just stop being that hostile
kindred storm
cool down
waxen panther
why'd you say it like you have any kinda power here lol
pulsar wigeon
that's none of your business leonhard
please don't act like you're a mod here or something
waxen panther
only wiz can threaten like that 😍
formal geyser
why'd you say it like you have any kinda power here lol
i dont do
waxen panther
I'm well aware
pulsar wigeon
you have no idea what you're talking about do you lol
if you don't want to make plugins don't
if you just expect monetary compensation for something, go get a fucking job lmao
formal geyser
tf?
ancient bolt
I think I'm fine with this gnome setup
vernal moth
I am done making promises on hangar that I will prolly not keep. As I said, I have ideas and plans on how to enable developers to be rewarded for their continued support.
Just wait
ancient bolt
dash to dock, topicons, and (biggest of all) nemo instead of the default file manager
quasi valley
ah ye digress from the topic to "wiz bad"
vernal moth
to be fair, the premium plugin support but open source model is pretty nice IMO
^
tired pawn
id agree to disagree on that myokan 
pulsar wigeon
BUT MINI how am i gonna make a living off my anticheat!!!1111onee11!!!1
worn ember
just when i'm about to become rich 😢
waxen panther
tired pawn
ah
quasi valley
wiz do you want to buy my broadcast plugin?
finite wave
No
vernal moth
I mean, I will not shed a single tear if there is no anti cheat on hangar
finite wave
Shit wrong acc
vernal moth
Devs need to find their own place then
tired pawn
that makes more sense myokan
vernal moth
Cause spigot def will be banning paper plugins
limber knotBOT
I mean, spigot doesn't accept new anti cheats either anymore so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
quasi valley
Spigot won't die, you might as well stay there
limber knotBOT
the whole bottom of the barrel is on mcmarket anyways
tired pawn
although i cant necessarily say todays standard for public anti-cheats
tired pawn
our server tried back in 2017 and there was way too many false positives
for a larger network
formal geyser
practically all of the premium plugins on spigot are not worth money at all, so
@spare venture and you bought all of them to control this assumption
tired pawn
we tried a bunch and opted for a custom solution
limber knotBOT
A248: just look at the premium resources that were released recently. it's all public, lol
and of course stolen anti cheat number 246 will not be approved
kindred storm
Where can I find the closed resources?
tired pawn
how many anticheats do you think have skidded code in it
that is on spigot rn
i wonder
limber knotBOT
I love how people here are talking about stuff they don't know shit 👀
kindred storm
As for my two cents on this, I would allow premium resources, but disallow obfuscation
formal geyser
how many anticheats do you think have skidded code in it
@tired pawn most i guess
@formal geyser almost all of the premium plugins i have purchased have been mostly garbage
@spare venture might be true
most devs are bad af
quasi valley
phoenix don't act like you're resource staff or something smh
tired pawn
i wont ever try a public ac again lol
quasi valley
runs really fast
formal geyser
@spare venture but not anyone is bad on spigotmc
kindred storm
Where do you find closed resources?
serene bolt
why don't these spigot staff know anything
waxen panther
spigot staff are dumb ammirite pureminorez
tired pawn
banned from spigot
kindred storm
How?
pulsar wigeon
lmao these guys literally have no idea
limber knotBOT
glances at NCP doing quite well
kindred storm
Don't be afraid
void void
anticheats are open source, and so are cheats
limber knotBOT
best security
formal geyser
because many devs are afraid to show their code because it is not proper and will allow for bypasses
@lethal locust many devs who show their code are bad lol
limber knotBOT
the very best!
s/stuff like anticheat/everything
Correction, <DiscordBot> <13barty> everything should be open source lol
quasi valley
limber knotBOT
can't wait for the GPLv4 to fix all the GPLv3 loopholes, lol
tired pawn
i used to have that logic leon
kindred storm
0_0 what are the loopholes?
limber knotBOT
or, well, I guess for GOogle vs Oracle to clear that shit up
tired pawn
but in a sense, being afraid to show code doesn't allow any growth
limber knotBOT
A248: the affero loophole being one (about network accessible applications)
and the API implementation loophole that Google vs Oracle is currently about
sage kettle
my minecraft got corrupted tris 😂
limber knotBOT
yes, AGPL isn't GPLv3 though
kindred storm
please don't be rude
tired pawn
🤷
limber knotBOT
mfw I tab to minecraft and see myself standing there because I forgot I had a second client open 👻
kindred storm
that makes you no better than the kangarko team
tired pawn
it is what it is
void void
it's funny to me how many cheats are actually open source
formal geyser
spartan is only usable one servers with less than 50 players, to be honest
@spare venture no its being used by larger servers
limber knotBOT
large servers with large timings!
kindred storm
please don't fight over other people's plugins' quality
void void
spartans not a good anticheat
tired pawn
at the end of the day, if you get offended by a single comment
making an anticheat isnt for you
formal geyser
yeah, on default settings spartan will use 2.5mspt minimum
@spare venture cool
tired pawn
maybe thats just my thinking
kindred storm
It's about common decency, Cullan
void void
hell theres a dupe if you set it to kick not ban iirc
kindred storm
SpigotMC does not allow premium resources depending on other premium resources
which at least limits the madness
tired pawn
so if something is bad, you're pretty much saying they should just say its good, i don't really see how that works
kindred storm
Did I say that?
tired pawn
i dont see the problem here
kindred storm
You really have some learning to do
vernal moth
Haha, constructing hangar rules will be fun
I think we should let the community vote on rules
limber knotBOT
"heavily moderated and limited" 👀
void void
lmao
kindred storm
Will it be a ranked-choice vote between several options?
quasi valley
Yeah lol there’s a giant mess of premium resources
limber knotBOT
as long as obfuscation and non-open source is allowed as premium resources it is not "limited" in any meaningful way
void void
what anticheat do you make?
kindred storm
"An army of skids"?
ancient bolt
so apparently if you're using the nvidia driver wayland is disabled
void void
ah the kick dupe one
limber knotBOT
I wish minecraft could just dump all of the toxicity that is the pvp community -.-
kindred storm
PvP has its merits
vernal moth
Faction servers are the root of all evil
Man, the stories I hear told by faction server owners
formal geyser
Man, the stories I hear told by faction server owners
@vernal moth ?!
Ditching my factions server alleviated all of my mental health issues instantly
@tired locust ?
tired pawn
any new crash exploits that come up you best bet will be used on your fac server if its decently big
formal geyser
factions is one of the biggest cancers in the minecraft community
@spare venture ?
void void
@formal geyser ?
formal geyser
Why are they?
tired pawn
i wish factions being toxic was new to me
serene bolt
🤔
limber knotBOT
Evan: make sure to check out the donation links in the #announcements ;)
restive crag
Why does the newest Paper build for 1.15.2 has "No changes"?
tired pawn
that would mean it only just started heh
formal geyser
Never played @ one
vernal moth
You cearly have never touched the factions community if you need to question those statements
void void
factions is more toxic than anarchy haha
formal geyser
if you like death threats, swatting, ddosing, doxing, racism, homophobia, factions is perfect for you
@spare venture Sounds awesome
pulsar wigeon
hella yikes
formal geyser
Never had anything to do with factions
vernal moth
You forgot the child molesters Barty
limber knotBOT
ddosing, racism and homophobia doesn't seem to be limited to factions sadly
vernal moth
Ppl hitting on minors, asking for pics
void void
i mean anarchy still has that stuff, it's just toned down
shell vine
if that isnt the truth
tired pawn
a lot of servers have turned to that competitive type of payout
even skyblock now
eh debatable
depends on the server I'd say
oh i was responding to myokan
yeah competitiveness kills the aspect of playing for fun
esp on skyblock
competitiveness also brings that aspect to your server
void void
thats a nice bot network
tired pawn
they will cheat/abuse
void void
that reminds me, theres gonna be more cheating in 1.16
much more clients are being made/updated rn
tired pawn
have to make money somehow
sage kettle
that reminds me, theres gonna be more cheating in 1.16
Any examples?
void void
i'd say the names/devs, but i don't wanna be banned
sage kettle
I mean concrete hacks. Something killaura/velocity/speed/fly/xrays level
what's gonna be new?
xD
void void
not saying
tired pawn
im from website, op me
void void
still exists
sage kettle
asks the antihack specialist 👆
oi evan, I get kicked for shifting on a stone wall
fix it
😄
tired pawn
maybe through bungee? i never heard of actual force op exploits though lol
pulsar wigeon
moooost force ops have been either a) unfirewalled proxy or b) dling malicious plugins
tired pawn
ye^
void void
most likely
pulsar wigeon
there have been a few big session exploits in the past tho but
void void
the public forceop is just a password cracker
sage kettle
yeah kinda, I have some glitchy moves. Nothing too bad though.
void void
yeah that was big
vernal moth
Just implement 2fa for staff
sage kettle
more like getting dragged down and eventual kick for fly
tired pawn
ye 2fa prevents session id hijackings
vernal moth
When they log into the network, require entering a code send to the phone or smth
It prevents all kind of attacks
Even prevents you from being bungeed
void void
yeah i'm not aware of any private ones to get around that
median crane
well, you can do "/spartan developer-report checkName playerName" and I will check it later
what is this
vernal moth
Prolly his phone home
tough jacinth
First impression from build 13 is good, good job guys
vernal moth
That's gonna be a hangar rules for sure, any connection your plugin opens must be mentioned in the resource page
With a reason
And a way to disable
median crane
im not sure that guests can use the api
vernal moth
Inb4 it ships an API key
median crane
so you store user credentials within the binary?
vernal moth
Somebody remind me to steal that key tomorrow when I wake up 😂
vernal moth
I mean, there are ppl shipping discord bot tokens ^^
That was a fun day
Used the token to shit the discord
median crane
that doesnt make it more secure, not at all
vernal moth
Well, then I can just spam your web server to spam pastebin
median crane
@vernal moth lmao i remember seeeing people drop smtp credentials too
how does that help?
serene bolt
median crane
thats not how it works either?
and neither its like cloudflare can do much in an api endpoint
vernal moth
Let's upload the Bible to pastebin 😂
median crane
the fact you rely on pastebin verifies you havne thought on it
vernal moth
If the plugin does the requests, so can I
median crane
specially because there is no need to deobfuscate anything
mitm http traffic is the easiest thing you can do
If the plugin does the requests, so can I
exactly
neither you need to decompile
forest thorn
does paper still have a built in orebfuscator?
median crane
pulsar fox
@forest thorn yes
vernal moth
does paper still have a built in orebfuscator?
@forest thorn yes
median crane
@tired locust he does not seem to understand that
vernal moth
Well, hopefully he uses https and cert pinning
void void
it's https luckily
median crane
you can replace their cert with one of yours to decrypt the traffic
vernal moth
With cert validation?
median crane
thats what charles, fidderl and any other debugger for https does
vernal moth
Because without it's usless
median crane
With cert validation?
many people believe that it will help but its not hard to tamper it either
vernal moth
Cert pinning?
Shouldn't be able to circumvent https + cert pinning without modidng the code
void void
mm i don't see anything with certs
median crane
you can tamper the check itself without modifying the binary
hook the function and replace it to return always true
median crane
yeah you are right on that
vernal moth
So you leave network layer
median crane
my point is that, no matter the checks you attempt to do on that aspect, they are all quite easy to go around
green turret
Well it's mostly about buzzwords and sounding cool anyway.
Throw some block chain in there as well Vag.
void void
i'm confused about what this means
green turret
Yeah I give up.
void void
if i'm on that list that's an insult
green turret
Is it a list of players that don't work, but at least they're honest about not working?
void void
hang on
green turret
"Sorry chief. Today my left arm doesn't work. Just letting you know before work starts."
ancient bolt
well my kernel got too big trying to enable kernel mode setting in nvidia and my /boot partition ran out of space
going to try and shift the windows partition 100 MB so I can expand that partition
I hope this doesn't take 4 years
green turret
Oh good luck!
ancient bolt
even on an nvme it will take 40 minutes (estimate)
someone should figure out how to do low-level remapping of disk locations on SSDs
since disk locations don't actually mean anything for an SSD
green turret
That's like a hundred times less than 4 hours if minutes were millihours. But they're not. So it's not.
void void
in theory it could be near instant, since it would literally just be changing the address book a bit
ah looks like that malfunctioning player thing is just to flag cheaters to admins i think
green turret
Are you on the list?
void void
on one server, yes
green turret
Cheater!
void void
it's a bad anticheat anyway and last time i tested it i found a dupe. so yeah 10/10
well theres a lot of cheats that still work
void void
ah ok
warm hornet
NFO OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM warning: INFO: os::commit_memory(0x0000000540000000, 7158628352, 0) failed; error='Cannot allocate memory' (errno=12)
28.06 23:20:05 [Server] INFO #
28.06 23:20:05 [Server] INFO # There is insufficient memory for the Java Runtime Environment to continue.
28.06 23:20:05 [Server] INFO # Native memory allocation (mmap) failed to map 7158628352 bytes for committing reserved memory.
what its going on ?
void void
give it more ram
warm hornet
10gb server
pulsar fox
Tells you right there
void void
set java to use more ram
nah but it was a dupe from spartan's kicking/banning thing
ergo your fault
pulsar wigeon
yes
lmfao
i mean presumably doing /kick xyz doesn't trigger the dupe
it was just under the specific circumstance that you did it i would guess
void void
i think its from a race condition, between the kicking and badly cancelling the event i think
there's something
¯_(ツ)_/¯
pulsar wigeon
i mean, sounds like something you could do differently
to yknow, prevent duping shit
but nah just blame it on the server and you don't have to fix it
void void
it's had lots of dupes
void void
yeah all the servers
pulsar wigeon
even if plugins are retarded, the server shouldn't let the dupe happen
void void
um you do cause them
thorny totem
rip missed the thread (got deleted)
void void
well has the plugin author figured out what's causing the dupe exactly?
is it a server bug or is it poor api documentation?
if latter then figure out how shit works and make it not dupe
ez
pulsar wigeon
i mean it is anyway tbf
void void
it's to do with the kicking bit
pulsar wigeon
that was just one example of it being bad
void void
yeah
pulsar wigeon
i mean, no
worn ember
🍿
void void
because thats the topic rn
pulsar wigeon
you could be any random person, if some plugin is doing broken shit it's a bad plugin lmao
dont give a shit who wrote it
void void
"caught"
waxen panther
wtf is this conversation
minor badge
If you'd like assistance with your dupe, we're glad to help given you provide debugging details and ask in the proper channel (#paper-dev). I'm sure any attacks on one another or their plugins can be avoided :)
pulsar wigeon
i literally didn't even know who you were at that point
i was just talking about something you said
waxen panther
still dont know who this is
void void
some crummy anticheat dev
minor badge
Dev of Spartan, brocc
worn ember
i still think wg is trash 
pulsar wigeon
that's how arguments work, they focus on the contents of arguments not the people who say them
well ded you know what
waxen panther
pulsar wigeon
you're right
worn ember
😉
thorny totem
WG is better and sexier ❤️
void void
true, but like i don't run a server, ergo i dc
pulsar wigeon
yea there's no rule about calling out dumb plugins here lmao
it's up to him if he wants to ask for support, in this case he obviously doesn't need it
void void
so be happy i can't remember exactly how to do it now
why not
other anticheats don't have it
waxen panther
worn ember
onstart (stop) ez anticheat
void void
also the who said the server crashes
you literally do
if other anticheats don't have that dupe
pulsar wigeon
dude fucking get over yourself
void void
clearly thats you
quick pasture
pulsar wigeon
why are you so protective over your baby plugin
"how dare someone point out flaws in my plugin!"
void void
raaaaaaaar!
quick pasture
me_irl
pulsar wigeon
so either figure out what was wrong and fix it, or move the fuck on
uh
lmfao
yes
if the problem causes dupes i'd throw the whole plugin out
void void
dude i found the dupe quickly while testing with the most public client possible
pulsar wigeon
(presuming i can't fix it, cuz you know it's closed source garbage, which is another matter entirely)
short yarrow
how do dupes even happen
void void
bad code
short yarrow
does it usually have to do with inventories?
void void
mm some of them
not this one
well actually kinda
but meh, bad anticheat, theres lots of ways to bypass it
median crane
dupe backdoor would be a neat feature 
pulsar wigeon
"let's change opinion" tf does that mean lmao
quick pasture
Dupe stuff ezly happens with async stuff
void void
async player kick?
pulsar wigeon
there's async catcher for that nowadays i think
minor badge
Also with quirks one just doesn't expect of the API :p
pulsar wigeon
i mean, basically most of bukkit api isn't async safe
void void
thing is in that case the API was fine
pulsar wigeon
that's like one of the first rules
wild fiber
@foggy cosmos hi
pulsar wigeon
if you do something async and it breaks that's 100% the plugin's fault
void void
i'm just saying it's bad
foggy cosmos
@foggy cosmos hi
@wild fiber hahahaha hi
void void
no
you made it
if others dont have it, and you have it, it's your problem
who said i'm not
green turret
Ahahahahaha
pulsar wigeon
holy fuck dude
runic finch
jeez man
void void
thank god for urban dictionary eh
runic finch
quick question: yay or nay on updating to 1.16 yet
waxen panther
wait
minor badge
Do you value stability?
green turret
As long as you don't install Vagdedes' dupe bug plugin you're fine to update.
runic finch
yeah ill wait
might make a dev server and see what errors i can find from our current world though
pulsar wigeon
if you called a method in such a way that it creates a dupe, but a normal invocation of that method doesn't cause a dupe, that's your fault
for example, not sure if this is related at all, but if you kick async and the kick method isn't async safe, that's your fault. the server can add asyncatcher to prevent dumb plugins from doing that, but ultimately it's the dumb plugin calling the method in a way it's not supposed to.
minor badge
Check back in a week, the software should be fairly stable then as more and more issues are resolved and reported.
green turret
I came to contribute more drama.
unreal quarry
Over in discordsrv chat we had a support channel that eventually was renamed and made specifically dedicated to Spartan and the problems it was causing. I don't remember much from it, but I remember it ended up a dumpster fire before the end of it lmao
void void
see ur focuing on the dupe part, you forgot about the fact that there's wack tons of bypasses
tidal turtle
what if im criticizing my own stuff? 😛
quick pasture
get out
median crane
haha java SUCKS
tidal turtle
xD
void void
only rainbows here!
swift root
median crane
void void
ooh
waxen panther
@swift root cutie
swift root
@waxen panther u too
green turret
wiz hit the nail on the head though. It doesn't matter how many methods you have. If you use it incorrectly and thus cause a dupe, it's your problem to fix. Just because you are not aware of how you fucked up doesn't mean you didn't.
median crane
ill hit u up bb
quick pasture
waxen panther
void void
be careful kids
green turret
The fuck
unreal quarry
I'm not using it wrong.. It's defective..
median crane
enjoy
green turret
Ahahaha
quick pasture
quick pasture
runic finch
kinda curious, what's the highest rated anticheat that isn't $/mo? 👀
worn ember
@potent fossil ur site sux. it worked for a bit and now its borked again
void void
AAC with good config is the best
green turret
But AAC doesn't have that dupe feature that Spartan has. So how do I get more diamonds?
worn ember
yes Advanced Audio Coding is very gud
void void
however the config does need to be updated often to keep up
runic finch
spartan actually has a dupe?
void void
i mean its not a serious one because the player will be flagged up a lot performing it
green turret
You can disable the dupe for another $5/month
green turret
I mean it's a pretty good deal considering how much you can make on your server if no one can dupe items.
median crane
best anti cheat is
quick pasture
Bubble anticheat in skript
void void
true, like oldfag hasn't had any public dupes yet, so kits are like $7 each or smthin
for u
green turret
Do I get a participation trophy?
quick pasture
median crane
@lethal locust do u use protocolib?
just curious
do you have to use reflection on any packet?
or it works well as it is
I see
quick pasture
Event based anticheat? O.o isnt it more effective to intercept packets
green turret
What do you use for the dupe feature? I recommend produpecollib.
worn ember
onPlayerMoveEvent(PlayerMoveEvent event) if(event.getPlayer.isHaxxor) //yeetus deletus ;
worn ember
he just grumpy cuz he has no table
void void
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
pulsar wigeon
he's grumpy cuz he's trash
cunning raft
hey guys
void void
hey
pulsar wigeon
literally in the name
tender swift
hi roy 🙂
tender swift
^ oh god
worn ember
no table?
More like not able
waxen panther
pls buy my skript anti-cheat and my skript anti-xray
minor badge
I personally think that although the plugin, like any other anti-cheat, has shortcomings and isn't how everyone else would have done it, it's a great achievement I am certain you can and will improve. With some debugging, I'm sure you'll be able to fix the issues raised throughout this massive shitstorm :)
green turret
Well if it wasn't for this damn anti cheat plugin not allowing me to dupe tables, I would have one!
lament patio
I'll buy an anticheat datapack
granite salmon
best anticheat is no anticheat
median crane
im considering buying mineacademy so that i can learn how to code an anti cheat
worn ember
just tell ur users not to hack
granite salmon
no
green turret
Nice!
waxen panther
nah bro just buy their $70 obfuscation package, that's all you need for a anti-cheat anyway 
green turret
Ahahahah
void void
nah best obfuscator is £75 actually smh
granite salmon
£
void void
should i use zlowty then?
void void
wat tf
quick pasture
🍆 currency
void void
can i have some dong money pls then
void void
just 1
pulsar wigeon
.>
waxen panther
Good Afternoon EngineHub: Wizjany.
quick pasture
try
waxen panther
inb4 banned for inciting pinging
quick pasture
void void
damn it
pulsar wigeon
👀
median crane
ping aikar get instant invitation to md5 backyard
green turret
They grillin' sausages
void void
i'm confused. why would i throw shrimp at a doll
green turret
Ahahahahahaha
quick pasture
green turret
I fucking love that!
void void
haha
void void
wat
green turret
It's like Ditto tried to mimic a garbagemule
median crane
quick pasture
no u
minor badge
ok stinkolai
waxen panther
ok prtoxicmyst
median crane
did your profile pic just change
void void
great comebacks here
median crane
@lethal locust
serene bolt
👉 🛏️
cunning raft
👉 
green turret
Yeah he invited me to his server and his plugin duped me.
green turret
Oh right the server duped me. The plugin was just there.