Might as well start from scratch.
#general
fallen oracle
peak dirge
void void
Here are the fucking banner routes. https://github.com/darbyjack/ResourceBanner/blob/master/src/main/java/thito/resourcebanner/BannerMakerServer.java
fallen oracle
Any good libs for making images?
peak dirge
ah yes, my favorite network I/O paradigm: thread-per-connection
fallen oracle
Okay cool cause I haven't worked much with image generation.
limber knotBOT
hey amazon, how is expedited shipping delivering this to me for literally 50 usd aka 2x more expensive than the price of the product in the first place
fallen oracle
Ikr Tux.
peak dirge
it's the proven model that Minecraft Beta 1.7.3 uses
limber knotBOT
☑ Spirekted Away
void void
I'm go ing to make an issue on Septo asking for it to be deleted
pulsar wigeon
you should decorate your beard with sequence
limber knotBOT
yes
because it was literally a scam
hey guess what barty
I'm buying 1 embossing stamp
do you know how much I'm paying for shipping
here's a tip, it's not 50 euros
man you'd go insane at how I buy my mugs then
or specifically how I bought the one mug
and the one bowl
yes
I've literally been using that spork and bowl ever since they got here
daily
it was a great investment
hey barty you'll go insane for this one
I went to the hospital and got surgery for my nose
can you believe that
I didn't get the 12-pack of nose surgeries
my surgeon was pissed
he did charge me through the nose for shipping though
you ever hear about a man who gets mad at other people online because they don't buy in bulk?
why do you care so strongly that I don't buy cutlery in family packs
clearly you do, we've spent enough time around this topic at this point to prove that
ok so how is it different from shipping a single pen
and if you think it costs 50 euros in logistics to ship a single spoon from china you're off your mind
demonstrably so because I think I ended up paying 4 euros total or less for my spork including international shipping and importing
ok
either you actually don't know that this is a widespread scam or you're just playing dumb
here's a super clear example
sort pens on amazon.de by lowest price
lowest price is 1 cent
with 16 euros worth of shipping
that's just not feasible
they hope people will skim over it
I almost did
it's easy to skim over 15 euros worth of shipping if your total basket is over 500 euros
austere girder
is this guy using a bot account or is my discord bugged
proud lance
irc bridge bot
tardy lynx
It's a robot
austere girder
ew irc
tardy lynx
Paper not only does minecraft but also artificial intelligence
limber knotBOT
amazon doesn't tell you on the checkout how much each item is shipping for
just the total
it's an issue I keep having
that's why it pisses me off
proud lance
does it not when you look at total offers?
limber knotBOT
because the only way to track it down is to remove things individually until you hit it and then put it back on
the total is just that, the total shipping
proud lance
no i mean like
limber knotBOT
15 euros worth of shipping isn't that huge when your cart is well into the hundreds
loud root
limber knotBOT
what I mean is it doesn't say how much you're paying for items in your basket on checkout
austere girder
limber knotBOT
and I ignore the shipping price because it's always wrong for me because I always ship internationally
so I only get the real total on checkout
the only reason I even noticed the spork had a weird shipping was because it made the total shipping so insanely high, if they had played it smarter I'd never had noticed
I don't get any prime benefits
no 1 day shipping
no free shipping
fun
god
must be good
I'm usually lucky if I can get it within the week when I pay for expedited delivery
yeah, sucks
I hear that we get slightly better service from the spanish store but honestly I haven't seen the difference except for lower selection, higher prices, fewer discounts and much harder browsing when compared to the german storefront
void jasper
versed wharf
inland fiber
unreal quarry
he sells fish. what better place to sell fish than where the fish are?
he's not in ice. he's on it
peak drum
round sleet
golden gust
probs deleted
pulsar wigeon
nah, i refreshed and it worked
golden gust
lol
pulsar wigeon
still sable
golden gust
Yea, imgur has done that a few times to me for freshly posted images
elder sable
minecraft obv uses another path to java than your $PATH
void void
wat
pulsar wigeon
mojang's launcher bundles its own JRE...
void void
oh i didnt read that convo up there i was so confused
patent wraith
In the old launcher (the one I still use), you can set the java.
fallen oracle
old launcher
pulsar wigeon
the normal launcher allows you to choose the java path too
idk which old launcher you're talking about but yea
rigid mauve
void void
fallen oracle
So it's basically like taking a photo of a photograph
fallen oracle
It really is.
unreal quarry
a photo of a monitor showing a photo of a photograph
fallen oracle
Ahh
Yeah that's dumb
This new version is going to be much more sexy
More sexy than Billy in the testicle cleavage shorts.
patent wraith
👀
void void
yeah heres where he literally takes the fucking JPanel and turns it into an image https://github.com/darbyjack/ResourceBanner/blob/master/src/main/java/thito/resourcebanner/RectBkg.java#L116
patent wraith
What's the best way to repopulate a vilage in 1.15 after they all died due to AFK?
fallen oracle
LOL
shell vine
time to check out this 1.15 shiz
austere ivy
@spare venture I do not know
void void
austere ivy
I have DiscordSRV so I get pinged if the "server room is on fire"
void void
SwingUtil.convert
fallen oracle
Dear lord
austere ivy
yesterday I randomly got pinged and the server room was on fire apparently, whatever, but the server never bounced back, it's dead for some reason
pterodactyl isn't working either.
I'm not quite sure, I'm gonna guess my host is doing something so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
patent wraith
That lag resistant AFK fish farm design is super lag resistant.
Like, I have a simulated 1000ms RTT, and it works fine.
austere ivy
I think the bigger question is why are you stalking my server but never on it 
golden gust
am gon go lie down, if stuff breaks an mini is around, blame him; Otherwise, blame Z for encouraging me to push or something, nite
austere ivy
o/
void void
bye kitty
patent wraith
That's not too far.
austere ivy
barty
sorry to say but by that metric my server is 10000x better than yours
nearest tree is literally nowhere
30million blocks from spawn
burnt kelp
Make no trees in game
patent wraith
What's the best way to protect your AFK spot from spiders?
If it needs to be out in the open, I mean.
patent wraith
Well, I have my AFK spot surrounded by fences.
Oh, I know about the carpet thing, but I can't remember how to do it exactly.
austere ivy
Dig a hole, hole-y enough that mobs won't try to get you through it.
Then put wall signs on the walls of the hole to fill in all the air spots directly on the ground
you know I'm overcomplicating this
just dig a big hole or trench around yourself, then fill like
the
the top part with signs
patent wraith
I'm not sure that would work, it's a AFK fish farm.
austere ivy
then put carpet over it, and you can walk over the carpet but the mobs won't try to get through.
Oh okay, I mean it really depends on what your landscape is like.
patent wraith
I mostly build my bases underground, so I have not ran into this kind of thing before.
The landscape is flat, but only for like 10 blocks radius.
austere ivy
And directly under you is a fish farm?
Trench seems like a solid option, just saying.
Maybe a screenshot would help.
patent wraith
austere ivy
Oooh, yeah okay.
Maybe put carpets over the fence so you can jump over it but spiders will get stuck if they try to climb it.
or: T R E N C H
patent wraith
Where would I put the torches then?
Is it okay to not put capet on the corners?
Anyway, I'll start crafting.
austere ivy
mcl.ist's search function is working, this is fantastic.
Also, yeah what barty said.
patent wraith
@spare venture, it needs open sky, or it gets way worse.
austere ivy
vecr maybe just blocks over the fence?
but not over the fish farm?
fence, then air, then block?
spiders can't climb it and no need for blocks over the fish farm itself.
patent wraith
Yeah, okay.
Carpet is expensive anyway, as I don't have a spider farm.
I mean, I'm just messing about.
Does a carpet on a fence let a zombie over?
austere ivy
I don't think so.
patent wraith
Yeah, it does not matter much if I die anyways.
Yeah, thanks, I'll replace the cobble with carpet when I have more string.
ionic pebble
rough nacelle
round citrus
ember crag
gloomy sphinx
why the hell wont my motherboard detect my pci e nvme ssd as a boot option
i have the ssd into a pcie adapter
debian installs on it fine but the damn motherboard doesnt see it
patent wraith
Mobos are wack.
void void
firmware?
void void
unreal quarry
@gloomy sphinx I had issues getting mine to boot as well. I had to do something in the bios settings, but I can't remember what
I think it was something that switched my port from m.2 to nvme or something
I have a Asus z97a. Every guide I looked up said it won't work, except one. I can't find that one now
Oh, and also, every now and then I get a kernel panic on boot right after grub. I have to turn pc off and on (not reset) and try again. Sometimes 3 or 4 tries before it actually boots. Once it boots, though, it's fine
I just need a newer board :p
void void
my poor mobo does that too
unreal quarry
Yes
patent wraith
Is it possible to shut up a note block?
vivid agate
Hi
What the fcuk? :D
[09:03:23] [Server thread/WARN]: Mismatch in destroy block pos: BlockPosition{x=0, y=0, z=0} BlockPosition{x=-29, y=68, z=-130}
vivid agate
charred hound
same
pallid mortar
gloomy sphinx
you know the sweet chili heat doritos?
void void
lethal jetty
void void
I wonder where @fallen oracle went
gloomy sphinx
spent his retirement funds
void void
that bitch
limber knotBOT
<electroniccat> am gon go lie down, if stuff breaks an mini is around, blame him; Otherwise, blame Z for encouraging me to push or something, nite <---- all just pretend I didn't read that
jaunty bolt
lol
limber knotBOT
Man, ppl be updating fast
I wish they would be as fast for updating java versions....
wide chasm
We hit 7% Java 11 or higher usage a couple days back
jaunty bolt
what do you mean? isn't java 7 good enough?
wide chasm
Only latest LTS is good enough
gloomy sphinx
ptero runs java 8
so there is probably a big chunk
if pterodactyl moved to java11+
jaunty bolt
Gonna try and update to java 11 this weekend 
gentle relic
void void
You can specify your own docker image for ptero
Most people don't though, god knows why
It just defaults to their java8 docker image
limber knotBOT
With have a whole bunch of CI to build our docker image
The image automatically gets the plugins and the server from Nexus, the configs from git, the world from git-lfs
You can run it out of the box
limber knotBOT
Not that often
olive garden
I plugged some device into my router and it got an IP address outside the DHCP range
and has no hostname
void void
o.O
olive garden
oh, I think the LAN ports apart from the first one are blocked on this router
at least I remember something stupid like that
oh god dammit
I didn't log out of the router while connected through LAN, now I can't log in through WLAN
zealous knot
Pepper 1.37.445 when
Oh
Wrong server
@olive garden thats hongarian routers for you
I doubt you own anything that works properly /s
olive garden
you break my heart :(
void void
Well after fucking around with images in java for a while here's my result. I'm done for the night. Got lots of cleanup to do on this code later lmao
Also need to add more stuff in the image
@fallen oracle when you wake your ass up, there's a v1 example ^ lol
slow scaffold
formal echo
civic notch
sour basin
vestal jasper
A list of your plugins
None that affect spectating entities.
can people fucking stop with that
sour basin
Is there any official news obout the performance of 1.15?
vestal jasper
Just because you think that none of your plugins are relevant to the issue doesn't mean that none of them are
sour basin
I know that the official recommendation was to use 1.13.2 rather than 1.14 builds
void void
as far as i know, chunk gen is still shit. chunk loading if already genned and entities are better though
so, wb fill your world and you sohuld be ok
full hawk
jaunty bolt
Simple, what's that for?
void void
wat
jaunty bolt
void void
spigot resource banners
jaunty bolt
cool, what will it be used for?
void void
resource banners :p
jaunty bolt
:p
void void
anyone can put their resource into the URL and it will dynamically generate an image like that
stars filled in w/ how well its rated, etc
Then they can put that in the forum sig
Or wherever
jaunty bolt
neat 🙂
jaunty bolt
would be cool if it could pick 3 random resources from a profile and generate a longer banner
like 3 of these next to each other
void void
yep it will
this is just like my 5 hours of feverish coding
i have plans to implement by author
and also show an author's profile, like adding all their resources ratings to show an author rating
jaunty bolt
cool 🙂
void void
MiniDigger, Spring is naise 
spring is oof
ktor or bust
except spring isn't just web
but that looks fun for kotlin
LOL
That was good
limber knotBOT
U finally ditching php?!
void void
Nah taking a break, lol. Glare challenged me to write an MC proj, so I accepted and chose to do it in spring
void void
:O
vestal jasper
oh, it's probably taken sideways and rotated with the rotation flag
because mobile devices ig
limber knotBOT
If i lick it does it taste like rasins?
worn ember
just IRC things
void void
lul
heady glen
peak hearth
analog violet
tardy maple
limber knotBOT
gives ^-^ a fisting
waxen pewter
limber knotBOT
love getting that first thing in the morning
strange aspen
Sideways loading images is the best party trick since pre-sliced bread
limber knotBOT
(Vertanzil) Smithers insist on a fisting - length 6s - 111 likes, 3 dislikes (97.4%) - 16,711 views - Don Nguyen on 2013.08.23
I prefer border-to-center image loading
golden gust
Nothing like waking up feeling like you didn't sleep \o/
limber knotBOT
man when will we finally get sleeping pills
void void
same
limber knotBOT
as in pills that make you feel like you slept
golden gust
one day™️
limber knotBOT
I was born in le wrong generation
golden gust
I mean
limber knotBOT
Do you suffer with any aches or pains?
golden gust
Your birth was wrong
golden gust
if you was asking me, I basically have a joke that I have my grandfathers knees \o/
limber knotBOT
must be the weight of your sins on your back
golden gust
Probs
limber knotBOT
smh
quasi valley
Maybe it’s just magma‘s weight sitting on your shoulders
limber knotBOT
that's what you get for trying to bully a demigod
limber knotBOT
technically there is pills that makes your sleep go away for a couple of days ^-^
yeah but you can't take them for years on end and you crash pretty hard after that frostalf
true
that's just sleep with extra steps
but they exist
quasi valley
You could also just stab yourself for never ending sleep
limber knotBOT
and I have seen people take them for years on end XD
are you not paying attention
quasi valley
But that’s not the best way either 😂
quasi valley
Anti stab yourself?
limber knotBOT
imagine how much work I could get done if I could work 24/7 without ever getting tired
well, unfortunately our brain dictates we need it, and those that tried to never sleep either went mentally crazy or died
that's a massive amount of shitposting I could add to my schedule
we just need to get the meds right frostalf
Pfftt you would just sit in your room masterbating watching anime and drinking monster
lmao
why wouldI drink monster, I would not be tired
well, you can be the first to test them
nah I'll spike cat's tap water with it to test it
And thats the one thing you pick out of that sentance thats wrong lol
oh sorry you're right
quasi valley
He was right yes
limber knotBOT
what kind of degenerate would watch anime for masturbation purposes
I forgot to say he dislikes anime
that's what hentai's for
he&
anime is poop
manga is where it's at
anyways, as for the testing of no sleep pills. I would probably be scared to test such things, mainly because of the history behind removing the requirement to sleep has had very permanent negative side effects lol
so did brain surgeries until we started getting them right
void void
that sounds like a dude i know
golden gust
The major issue is the brain cleaning out all its shit
void void
nvm discord was too scrolled up
limber knotBOT
lol
oak sail
limber knotBOT
that's fine just use the java garbage collection
instantly forget anyone that is dead
void void
just use G1GC smh
golden gust
Sleeping basically has some effect on your brain that "opens it up" to clean up all the biological waste/crud that gets shoved in there in the day
limber knotBOT
java garbage collection plugged into my brain pls
I think we should throw ^-^ into the garbage collection
I'd pass through it untouched
I fear no GC
or just freeze from a lag spike
do you?
anyway all of this quality banter I've been showcasing has made me hungry
bbl
look at my cores, my cores are amazing
now to get this rgb under control
golden gust
give 'em a lick, it tastes just like burning
golden gust
not sure if trolling or dum
limber knotBOT
-1.5 days, lol
merry tinsel
3 more days at least, just go use spigot instead
merry tinsel
wait, vanilla
limber knotBOT
Not even an option to use Spigot.
golden gust
God, I've not even built spigot yet
golden gust
That patched spigot, didn't compile it doe
golden gust
I mean, Spigot still compiles CB...
Had the odd thought that we should have a --masochist flag to compile CB/Spigot as part of the process just so that it's in your local maven repo 😄
mystic hearth
peak hearth
merry tinsel
so, are there any like cool (and fairly stable) world generator plugins?.. i run a HUGE server of like.....4 people, and some times exploring the world gets kind of boring because you just see the same types of structures over and over like village and wrecked ship etc and was wondering if there is some way to make exploring more interesting
merry tinsel
wow why is it wanting me to log in to see those?.. spigot pages never did that before for me
wide chasm
Because they are paid probably
merry tinsel
.............oh
merry tinsel
okay im too cheap to pay for any thing
limber knotBOT
Too bad. This is what you miss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-jhJLOHPvE
(fnutt) [Minecraft Cinematic] Epic World Generator Plugin - length 2m 40s - 143 likes, 1 dislike (99.3%) - 11,533 views - MSU Cinematics on 2017.07.24
merry tinsel
no! i don't want to see what i'm missing! get it away from me!
granite salmon
ewg is not worth the money rn
limber knotBOT
strange aspen
Depending on what you want, you could always use some of the older generators like OTG, pregenerate what you need and use that
limber knotBOT
RWG?
golden gust
The second plugin you linked
limber knotBOT
Is it any good?
grand spear
golden gust
am 2 cheap to buy plugins
elfin lava
strange aspen
rwg looks more like someone smoothed out the world, and added custom trees, no fun
pulsar wigeon
presumably that is more realistic
the majority of earth doesnt look like MC's amplified setting yknow
strange aspen
I'm Norwegian, I beg to differ. I can't walk 5 meters without bumping into a mountain or a fjord
worn ember
why play video games if you want realism lul
strange aspen
There's a reason people found the beta terrain so interesting, it was wacky and weird. I've been considering adding a small patch of GLACIER for my users, just to have some of that funky terrain
sharp oar
kind island
is 1.15 stable?
keen tundra
wide chasm
There have only been a handful of releases, so I'd recommend waiting a bit.
kind island
alright 😄
sturdy crystal
final tangle
true canyon
Paper 1.15.2 ETA?
olive garden
eta
pulsar wigeon
did these people miss a message
left swift
hot beacon
bleak apex
who already tested 1.15 with 25+ players?
void void
no one probably
bleak apex
Don't wanna be first
tardy lynx
wow 15% of servers are still on 1.8
zealous knot
that's actually matches up with the statistic that about 15% of server owners are autistic
so i'm not surprised
brittle mica
@bleak apex we have tested it
we're currently running 60 at 20 tps
playercount hasn't gone higher yet
golden gust
Only 15%?
bleak apex
Oh, thx 🙂 But how many tps it was on 1.14.4?
Just on 1.14.4 i have only 9-10 tps with 30 players
limber knotBOT
If you are on 1.14, updating is a nobrainer
brittle mica
1.14 it would be down to 15-16 already
sometimes tps drops tho
it's gone down to 17,5 a few times and then back up
void void
@brittle mica so its safe to upgrade to 1.15 paper?
tardy lynx
Mine's always at 20 but that's because I have 4-7 players
brittle mica
it's not "safe" but it's safe
void void
i mean are there crashes?
brittle mica
nah
void void
anyone was saying something with 1.15 launchers
tardy lynx
I'm gonna stay on spigot until mojang's done with 1.15
void void
crashing ?
void void
something with anvils idk
void void
pulsar wigeon
interesting idea - can't the server open inventory windows on the client? could you just intentionally crash clients with that?
:^)
olive garden
it's not like this is the first way you can selectively crash a client
limber knotBOT
You can crash the client in many ways
pulsar wigeon
yea tru
potent warren
I've heard that explosions of TNT lag less on 1.15. Is that true?
quasi valley
the client doesnt die anymore yeah
analog jetty
Oh thank the heavensPaperMc crew, Paper for 1.15 is out. Thank you guys ❤️
pulsar wigeon
sliced lime says there were some not-just-client side optimizations too iirc
limber knotBOT
Tnt ja Miles better
potent warren
So, will the Spigot forks over on McMarket die? Lel
quasi valley
there will always be stupid people making stupid forks bought by more stupid people
limber knotBOT
So there is indeed a server side performance increase with 1.15 or am I misunderstanding the conversation?
void void
fallen oracle
Morning
fallen eagle
morning even its 5pm and just woke up xD 😛
fallen oracle
Lol
worn ember
sounds like a regular saturday
cunning raft
paperspigot
limber knotBOT
@cunning raft [Auto] We're now known as Paper.
cunning raft
ok good
worn ember
poopspigot
quasi valley
toiletpaper
potent warren
wait... if those forks use Spigot, by selling them aren't they distributing Mojang's code?
quasi valley
Timolia already did that as well haha that's their actual internal name https://tr7zw.dev/u/1576092051.png
fallen oracle
Lol
potent warren
Seeing that most of them are selling the final jar....
quasi valley
I doubt anyone is not just selling the plain jar
pulsar wigeon
selling final jar is definitely against tos but yea requires mojang to do something prob
worn ember
lets sue the poopers
so i wanted to install windows 7 ultimate using VMWare. And it somehow manages to install windows 7 home basic 
potent warren
rekt
void void
lmao
worn ember
i need ultimate cuz i want windows media center
potent warren
why do you even need that? kek
worn ember
cuz we use it for out tv
potent warren
wat
worn ember
but the motherboard we bought doesnt support legacy
so we cant install W7 on it xD
yet it has floppy and like the old video ports support 
i forgot what the old bootloader is called
is it just BIOS?
golden gust
General gist is that those forks are often breaking multiple licenses
potent warren
oh lmao
limber knotBOT
They don't provide source so they violate my personal copyright
quasi valley
they sell stupid forks so they violate my personal space of sane people
olive garden
does Forge support Java 11 yet?
pulsar wigeon
asking in paper discord
fallen oracle
Lol
olive garden
ask cat, I'm dumm
potent warren
Just ping them.
olive garden
I don't want to ping anyone
potent warren
@pulsar wigeon no u pls
potent warren
;-;
limber knotBOT
We don't distribute our fork to anyone do we don't need to distribute the source to anyone ;)
hard thistle
austere ivy
@hard thistle what happened to your gum?
hard thistle
@austere ivy Roddy Piper stole it.
tough vale
stone coyote
kind igloo
cunning birch
wide chasm
Why did I think YAML was a good file format for data storage three years ago. Normal startup: 1-2 seconds; has 1 arena: 6-7 seconds.
wide chasm
Actually, I think the file format isn't the worst offender, it's probably the ~800 heads it loads in on startup.
Since I have a messages.yml with ~3000 values in it and that doesn't have any problems.
The file format choice is still bad though.
fallen oracle
Yeah one of my projects loads like 24 files with 400+ lines each in YAML. Only takes a second or two.
I guess it just depends how much data there is to load.
Z, idk if you're around, but the auto generated Javadoc for 1.15 is not working properly.
golden gust
BRB, going to add dfu to mcmmo
fallen oracle
The search bar is broken. Everything returns a 404.
heady spear
wtf is dfu
golden gust
Datafixerupper
heady spear
o
wide chasm
Yeah, it's definitely the heads menu. It consists of 11 submenus which itself have anywhere between 200-1000 lines of XML and load in total about 800 custom textured heads.
golden gust
Should cache them
heady spear
caches are for pussies
golden gust
Paper even offers a nice API for dealing with profiles
wide chasm
Yeah, I'll do some caching. At some point.
pulsar wigeon
cat: just use worldedit, we expose DFU :^)
golden gust
Lol
wide chasm
Also, I don't think I've seen anyone other than me use the XML stuff for GUIs, so that was a waste of time 🙂
fallen oracle
Yeah I use your lib but never used the XML.
Mainly because my end-users probably wouldn't understand it.
heady spear
the xml stuff feels archaic
fallen oracle
I do need to rewrite all the GUIs at some point.
wide chasm
Well, I don't expose the XML to the end-user - I just use it internally.
heady spear
why not just hardcode stuff
wide chasm
Why would I?
fallen oracle
Well I allow high customization to the GUIs in the project, but they are just created inefficiently, so I need to just rework how they are created.
heady spear
because XML is annoying and now you have to do a bunch of parsing
wide chasm
The parsing is already handled though and I personally quite like XML
woven otter
wiz did you ban or block NickAc
fallen oracle
Also need to make sure I'm on the latest version of the lib. I've noticed that some of the GUIs have more issues than others because people can put items in them and then close it and lose their items.
heady spear
If you don't expose it then I see no good reason to do it at all tbh
pulsar wigeon
neither duck
woven otter
im surprised
heady spear
but not everyone loves themselves so I could see the appeal
pulsar wigeon
i kicked him
wide chasm
Why don't you like XML? Sure, it's not the most concise format and there are definitely things that I'd have changed, but it's overall a pretty solid file format imo.
quasi valley
kinda ugly imo
fallen oracle
It is but since my plugin is all about letting players do the configuration, it's easier to give them something they are comfy with.
cosmic raft
I use XML for configurations in my stuff :)
wide chasm
❤️
pulsar wigeon
xml is a very pretty format tbh
very structured
not arguing for or against its use for anything
it's just very neat
golden gust
It's not my fave thing
fallen oracle
I think when I rewrite all the GUIs, I'm going to design some kind of builder-type thing for it. I've noticed that when I handle not letting people put items in the GUIs, I use the same method in multiple classes.
heady spear
I don't see the reason behind putting your inventory configurations in a separate file at all if they're not going to be exposed
I don't really care about the format at all
fallen oracle
So I'll probably make some kind of "helper" class to work with it.
golden gust
But it sure as heck beats json for represention of data
And yaml, and basically all of that
wide chasm
Because it's easier for me to work with, City. I can re-use the same class for multiple different GUIs more easily, the XML is smaller than the code I had before and the XML is easier to add/remove stuff from imo.
golden gust
Only reason yml is used in bukkit so much is because of the darned config apj and the general fear over server owners being morons
fallen oracle
Mhmm
austere ivy
First person to ping me
heady spear
Can people stop circlejerking about discord pings
oH nO sOmeOne meNtioNed Me BettEr KiCk
heady spear
why would I say anything to wiz
heady spear
I'd rather talk to a piece of horse shit
fallen oracle
Stef, wdym by re-use the same class for multiple GUIs? Just like some static helper methods for creating the GUIs?
austere ivy
Lies?
Pretty sure it’s your fault
I think you broke it
You’re the last one to touch it, you have to put it away
aka fix it
how am I competing with you
you’re a factions server
yeah but we all know the only players it ever gets are me and my friends
so, 1 player max
why’d you target me instead of like hypixel
wide chasm
I create an instance of class X for gui 1, gui 2, gui 3 etc. Even though they are different GUIs they all work with that class. There's even some extending between different GUI classes, which is, not really anything intentional, but it works I guess.
austere ivy
I don’t understand lol
fallen oracle
Interesting.
austere ivy
Stef oh yeah once my server resurrects itself I I’m getting a ton of errors from IF
fallen oracle
Yeah, I'm not too happy with the way I approach working with your GUI lib, so I definitely want to rewrite it to clean it up and make it more efficient.
austere ivy
mainly to do with click events
fallen oracle
I basically ended up jerry rigging it around to make for the different GUIs.
austere ivy
I’m not sure how I’m supposed to be handling click events but it’s a lot of red text I’ll tell you that
limber knotBOT
Hes humping the crate!
austere ivy
I like that new emote very cool.
Barty if you’re not factions then what is your server?
wide chasm
Should just be a case of setting a lambda to either a Gui, a pane, or a GuiItem. But, there have been changes regarding handling clicks, so if you're not on 0.5.14 yet, I'd recommend updating to that first and seeing if it helps.
cedar spade
ur a factions
austere ivy
You can be the server and I can be the cool one
fallen oracle
Yeah. My top issues were having people be able to lose their items in the guis so I was just throwing in methods to fill with panes.
Even though some of them use the global click event to cancel, but then on some of them I also do some cool things with the GUIs to go back to the previous page and I think the global click event cancel just ruins it.
austere ivy
Ah man what a shame
Stef, once my server is no longer dead l’ll update to 14
0.5.14
fallen oracle
So I just need to find a happy medium.
austere ivy
I think something that could be cool is an inventory framework just like Stef’s but the GUIs are actual classes, and the items are fields, and the interaction lambdas whatever are methods.
stuck badger
is there an option to reenable zero tick farms?
austere ivy
Extend AbstractGUI, that kind of thing.
wide chasm
You can make your class extend Gui if you want actually, that's fully supported.
I'm using it myself in some classes.
austere ivy
Oh really?
Huh okay
Barty because it’s vanilla mc
Technical players exist
Also barty what is your new server going to be?
stuck badger
and im the admin and i can do anything
wide chasm
The only thing you can't do is have the class extend Gui and then load that from an XML, so if you do extend you're stuck using normal programmatic ways of working with your GUI, but I don't think most people really mind that.
stuck badger
na i just ant it as vanilla as possible
austere ivy
XML seems a bit wonky for me because you still have to programmatically add the click events
So barty, new server?
stuck badger
no its for a few people and i like zero tick farms
wide chasm
Yes, but you can reference the method in the XML. So:
<item onClick="myMethod" />
will then call myMethod when you click on the item.
fallen oracle
Yeah that's pretty cool. I just prefer the program matic way.
wide chasm
Sure, use what works for you.
austere ivy
@spare venture so, smp earth for the public? ;)
Also yes I like programmatic things BUT I have all my strings and such in config.yml
Barty how is smp earth bad?
fallen oracle
The gui rewrite is on my list to do. Going to work really hard on DRY since I heavily DRY in the gui classes.
fallen oracle
I just poorly implemented the GUIs, made them work, didn't really care how they worked.
austere ivy
so.. helper classes that you have to instantiate for no reason???
wide chasm
If the method really doesn't belong to anything, then a utility class is fine for that imo, just don't make your entire program static.
austere ivy
not EVERYTHING has a state, I sometimes just want a method that gives me the colored string of something Hershey
yeesh*
typing on a phone is extremely uncomfortable one moment
fallen oracle
I might try some kind of helper / builder class for the GUIs so I can do something like
GUI gui = new GUIBuilder().disableAllClicks().addFillerSlots();
There we go that's better.
I think one of my biggest challenges is making things OOP.
There was recently a Spigot thread I was talking in, kind of interesting:
In it I linked to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2h7g3m/oop_alternative_to_utility_classes/ckq3t1w/
Like..
placid thicket
anybody got 1.14>1.15 TPS data yet?
austere ivy
Here's the issue I have, is that people complain about "Enterprise" Java.
pulsar wigeon
"tps data"
limber knotBOT
Fuck java
austere ivy
Where you have factories of factories and builders of classes and a ton of overhead for not really doing a whole lot
pulsar wigeon
like everyone's tps was homogenous in 1.14
limber knotBOT
Fuck strings
pulsar wigeon
lmfao
limber knotBOT
Fuck this api
austere ivy
BUT THEN when you say "uhh just use a static helper class" they're like BuT tHat's nOt oOp
wide chasm
OOP takes some time to get good at, but the more you use it the better you get at it from my experience.
austere ivy
Yeah it is one of those things.
placid thicket
i was looking for and anecdotal better/worse
austere ivy
I just don't understand why people are like YOU HAVE to make this OOP, no static, and then they turn around and then they're like "uhh enterprise java is so bad you write so much and you do nothing lol"
pulsar wigeon
well ask for anecdotal better/worse then
instead of some peer reviewed scientific results LUL
fallen oracle
Stef I'll probably hit you up in a week or two when I redo the GUIs to get your opinion on it.
placid thicket
that IS what i asked for
austere ivy
Java can do the same things as some other programming languages like Python. Sure, Python's syntax has a lot less characters but just like with Python, you don't have to go nuts OOP.
wide chasm
Well, I'd preferably have a language which still follows good (OOP) principles, but handles a lot of that stuff for you. I.e. a language which allows you to specify if a field should have a getter/setter, without having to write an entire method for it.
austere ivy
Sure Java doesn't have global functions but just make a class called GlobalFunctions and have a ton of static methods! If it's doing the same thing what's wrong with it?
Kind of like Kotlin then, stef?
wide chasm
Haven't used Kotlin much, but if it does, yes.
austere ivy
And if you read the Spigot thread I posted above, you'd see someone recommending me Kotlin's static thingy helper whatever.
twin jasper
austere ivy
Essentially, the biggest problem I see is that it's very hard to make things OOP if you can't modify classes that are in the API.
For example, let's say you want to have an economy and you assign a balance to each player.
You can't do Player.getBalance(), you have to either make a static method that takes in a Player and spits out their balance, OR you mess about with OOP and make "PlayerManager" and "PlayerProfile" or whatever but the PlayerManager still has to have static methods.
That's the main issue, SO how do you fix it?
wide chasm
Yes, that's usually where utility methods come in - you need to perform some operation on a class, but that class isn't yours, so you can't implement it there, so you kinda just make a utility method for it.
austere ivy
Kotlin has this feature where you have some fancy syntax that lets you do Player.getBalance() after the fact.
BUT.
GUESS WHAT IT COMPILES TO?
A static method that takes in a Player.
wide chasm
Static, yes.
austere ivy
So what's wrong with just making the static method yourself? It's doing the exact same thing.
wide chasm
But that's all for the compiler, nothing you have to worry about.
fallen oracle
Just make all your MC GUIs in C# ez.
quaint crow
austere ivy
JVM is probably doing a ton more hacks than we're doing. We don't have to write "Enterprise Java", sure if you want things to be easily extendable and modifiable, go all out, Java has the capabilities to do that
BUT.
You don't HAVE to do enterprise Java if all you want is a simple static method that takes in a string and spits out another string that's colorified.
We're writing Java as if it has to look nice or we're trying to impress someone.
If it's 1. worse performance 2. harder to write 3. more complex to think about then why are we trying to make everything OOP?
OOP is a very powerful tool, don't get me wrong.
For example, something we're all familiar with, a Bicycle. It has state and ways to interact with it. Perfect for OOP.
worn ember
its more about good practice than anything i think
wide chasm
The advantage of using such an extension method over a static method yourself is that you show that a Player has a balance property and that a balance is tied to a Player. Such a thing isn't the case with a static method (in this example, it's easy to figure out, less easy if you have 5 parameters), you don't intuitively know that Players have a balance property.
austere ivy
Understandable, Stef.
worn ember
austere ivy
I'm just saying that Java could be as easy to write as Python, we're just making it harder on ourselves for "good pratice."
OOP is a very useful and powerful tool, some things would be extremely hard to make if we had to solely make it in procedural/functional programming.
However Java provides the flexibility of NOT using OOP for everything, a magical thing called static.
I'm not making a case for static.
I'm just saying not everything needs a Factory and a Builder and 10 classes just for one thing.
tough garden
placid thicket
despite lots of red server seems really happy so far, unfortunatly its not a lot of data
austere ivy
Java is a good language, we're just unnecessarily making it harder on ourselves.
placid thicket
i don't exactly know hot to read these things, i just see big angry red numbers and try to interpret meaning
austere ivy
yes barty that's because your timings looks like someone spilled cranberry juice all over it
orange juice
alright fine those look good.
wide chasm
Factories are usually only valuable for situations in which you have two options for the class you want to choose. If I want an instance of class A, I can just do new A(). If I have two classes that extend A, though, B and C, I'd have to choose which one I want. I don't want to do that in a method that's supposed to do something else. Which is where the Factory comes in: it decides for you which class is more appropriate to use, so your method doesn't have to worry about that and you don't have to write that logic out multiple times either.
austere ivy
hol' up here, 1.15?
pulsar wigeon
there's a pin somewhere (maybe in #paper-help ?) on how to read timings
wide chasm
A factory for a class of which only one type exists is pretty unnecessary imo.
austere ivy
You're right, stef.
I'm mainly just talking about this, which everyone loves to point to when they think of Java:
fallen oracle
That's a lot of classes.
wide chasm
Yes, Java is quite known for people applying all sorts of boilerplate to it. And there are definitely languages that do this better by baking such design principles into their language, so that you don't have to do it yourself - Java isn't really one of them though.
austere ivy
I'm just saying that it doesn't have to be like that.
wide chasm
Which means you either don't follow them, but that can definitely hurt code readability and scalability, or you do it yourself.
fallen oracle
Sometimes you just have to sacrifice beautiful looking code.
austere ivy
I'm 100% sure that Python code can be ported to Java with little changes, except for the syntax of course. Global functions and such can be put in a GlobalFunctions class, you get the idea.
Java doesn't have to have all these fancy things, you just use it to do what you need to do.
Not everything needs to be super extendable.
wide chasm
Well, that is the idea though - you allow for extension, so that if you do need that extension later down the line, you can easily do so. It makes Java code very scalable imo. You can choose to not do it now, which means that you may have to do it later, or you do it now, which creates more work now, but saves time later down the line.
I usually opt for the latter though.
austere ivy
So why don't we do all of that for languages such as Python?
fallen oracle
I think as stef talked about earlier, some languages just have this stuff baked into it.
Whereas Java doesn't really.
heady spear
you can use design patterns in python too 
wide chasm
Well, I think it comes down to multiple things. Java is usually used for larger codebases - you don't see people writing a quick helper script in Java, but that's much more common in Python. This means that a lot less people worry about "we have to follow the following 20 principles", but just kinda make it. From my experience, this makes Python much less scalable than Java, but usually this scalability isn't needed in Python (for such script things), so their decision is to save time and code now, because the chances that you need to scale it further are rather small.
Python is also less OOP heavy. Java is a very pure OOP language by design (and sometimes to a fault imo), while Python definitely has OOP constructs, but not to Java's extent. A lot of principles we went over - factories, builders - only really apply to OOP code, so you don't use them (as much) in Python.
Although I'd argue, that stuff like SRP and encapsulation should definitely be used in Python as well.
median iron
worn ember
stef writing essays again
austere ivy
Java is very pure OOP but it also gives us the ability to choose if we want to use OOP or we don't want to use OOP depending on the situation.
Sometimes we have Bicycles or Lamps that have state and methods to interact with it, sure, that's good for OOP.
But sometimes we have things that need to take in an input, and generate an output, and that's it.
And we can just use static for that. If static is a super bad idea, why did Java add it?
wide chasm
Static isn't a bad idea, it definitely has its use cases and such utility methods like you mentioned are one of them. The point is that if you can make it OOP, then doing so usually helps you a lot more in a language like Java, since it's very much OOP-oriented (keep in mind even your static utility methods are still in a class).
austere ivy
How would it help you, though?
worn ember
did you not read what he said at all?
austere ivy
Hold on hold on.
I have one piece of anecdote that I'd like to share.
I get what you're saying, I agree with you, definitely, I just think that sometimes you can make things OOP and it helps you. The point I'm trying to make is that people are taking that to heart just too much, and they're overdoing it.
For example:
Recently, I was upgrading a plugin to 1.13+, it was pretty messy internally and I decided I wanted to fix it. In it, there were a couple of GUIs.
The GUIs were basically structured like this: you have a Listener dedicated to the GUI, and you have a BlahBlahGUI class.
Inside the BlahBlahGUI class, there was a method that generates a GUI. No state at all, just a helper method that makes the GUI and spits out an Inventory.
In some of the GUIs, it had parameters for players so that the GUI could be tailored to them, but that's about it.
The GUI was instantiated for no reason. Instead of making those methods static, the BlahBlahGUI class was instantiated whenever it was needed, then the method was called, and then that instance was never seen again.
I'm sure it took a veeeerry small toll on performance, but a static method call has to be cheaper than instantiating an object, then calling said method, then garbage collecting it.
And the thing is this isn't a small little plugin, this is a plugin with thousands and thousands of downloads that a ton of servers I've been on personally have.
Looking back at my wall of text it's a very silly piece of anecdote but the entire point I'm trying to make is that people are taking OOP too far, to the point where it has absolutely no benefits. I agree with you, Java is very extensible and there are use cases where it's very beneficial to have factories and builders and all, but just too many people use OOP because it's "good practice" or "that's the way Java is"
wide chasm
I definitely agree that creating such an object, to just create a different object again is useless (it also has a heavier toll on performance like you said, although unless you're creating ten thousands of GUIs per second, it probably won't be noticeable). I'd say making that method static would be a good idea. However, there are definitely people who will argue that "the creation of the object (and its lifetime) is not the responsibility of the Gui class". Which would mean that your class is doing multiple things at once, which you don't want since every class should have it's own purpose (reason being is that you want your system to be divided into nice chunks that each do one task, so that you don't run into issues of trying to do task A, but then task A also does task B which you don't want). I'd say this ideology goes a bit far, but such reasoning would be a reason for making a Factory for that class.
I myself usually only reserver builders for classes that have a lot of (possible optional) parameters, so I definitely wouldn't use that here at all, though.
austere ivy
Agreed.
cursive bone
wide chasm
(As a side note, if you can remove that entire creation method altogether and move its code to the constructor, do so, the constructor is there for the creation of objects, no need to make it more complicated.)
austere ivy
Well the method returns an Inventory.
Can a constructor return a type different than the class itself?
wide chasm
No
But, it's a Gui class, which presumably needs to do stuff - it may be better to keep that Inventory object internal to that class and let that class handle anything that needs to be done to that Inventory.
austere ivy
Nothing needs to be done, it just shows the player an Inventory.
Unless we stuff the Listener in there too.
But then every time we create a new GUI, we also create a new Listener.
quasi valley
wide chasm
Registering Listeners often isn't really a good idea though, since that can degrade performance since it needs to insert it by priority, which can become an expensive operation if you do it often.
placid thicket
here are some new timings, server is happy even with 32 render distance server side
https://timings.aikar.co/?id=088fe83ecf2c40ec9f6a0a2d4bea7d1f
austere ivy
Right, yes, it's a bad idea. I wasn't actually thinking that haha.
pulsar wigeon
it's not even an "insert by priority"
it re-bakes the entire list every time you add or remove a handler
heady spear
I wanna join the army
austere ivy
Good luck, City.
wide chasm
So a global listener for your GUIs might be better there. But, then you need to know where the code that handles the interaction with the GUI actually is. If it's in the listener, you may not be able to keep a global listener. In this case, I'd say that moving any kind of interaction code to the GUI class works better.
Now you've introduced state to your GUI class though, so then you might want to keep that Inventory internal and just provide a show method on the GUI for opening the GUI for players. (We ended up with an OOP-based approach, though 😉 )
olive garden
can furries not join or what?
heady spear
more like people with untreated autoimmune diseases can't
apparently my removing a vital organ wasn't enough for them
me**
austere ivy
Thyroid?
heady spear
ye
austere ivy
Did it make you feel better after you got it removed or just prevent it from getting worse?
austere ivy
Sorry man that's rough.
heady spear
balancing thyroid hormone is super hard lol, some people spend years trying to get their dosage right
austere ivy
Yeah no kidding sometimes my family forgets if they took their daily pills or not.
void void
heady spear
I've gained a considerable amount of weight, I've no energy and I feel like crap all the time. But, it is what it is.
At least I have a sexy scar
austere ivy
You either feel horrible if you don't take it or you feel horrible if you take too much.
heady spear
yup, different kinds of horrible but horrible nonetheless
austere ivy
Stef, maybe you should have a shot at refactoring the plugin, lol.
I'd be interested in seeing your approach vs mine.
heady spear
It takes up to two months to notice any difference when changing the dosage, and so it's super hard to get it right
Anyway, treat your thyroids with respect, people.
wide chasm
If the plugin isn't too large, sure
heady spear
Eat your iodine, avoid being near nuclear disasters.
don't go to chernobyl or fukushima
also avoid being born with any other autoimmune disease because then you'll most likely end up with other ones
ok fix but y
zealous knot
wrong server
heady spear
IRC will never forget
austere ivy
Fun fact, City, my mother (who has hashimotos) gets super sick when she has iodine.
heady spear
most of your iodine is stored in your thyroid, it can do whacky stuff
zealous knot
iodine is worse than hitler
heady spear
That's why radioactive iodine is a good treatment for hyperthyroidism
austere ivy
stef would you like me to send you a link to it or..?
heady spear
because it can attack the thyroid locally
wide chasm
Yeah, sure
heady spear
What sucks is that my Russian surgeon decided to also diddle my parathyroids
idk if he just thought I deserved to have less calcium for a couple or months or what
come to think of it, most of my doctors have been russians and all of them have sucked
worn ember
get better doctors then
unreal quarry
i tend to avoid doctors unless its a real emergency that I cant fix myself. theres a reason they call it "practice" and that just doesnt sit well with me lol
worn ember
i'd never trust a russian to operate on me
heady spear
I didn't really have a choice because all of our endocrine experts are Russians
worn ember
ive had an operation a while ago and it was really uncomftrable how casual the doctors were talking while waiting for me to pass out
heady spear
I think the soviet union invested a decent chunk of money into endocrine research after chernobyl
zealous knot
@worn ember to be fair city doesn't really have a choice, would you prefer to be operated by a swede instead?
heady spear
also ^^
heady spear
we have one of the leading medical research hospitals but uh
the russians are better
heady spear
Loads of people ended up with thyroid cancer in Ukraine and (especially) Belarus
so they needed people that could treat that shit
worn ember
Russia in a nutshell
heady spear
that's what happens when you don't know how to do nuclear
also killed loads of swedish reindeer so like fu
heady spear
everyone should just use hamsters on wheels for energy production
zealous knot
we wouldn't have a metric fuck tons of click baity videos on youtube of people breaking into the exclusion area
and we wouldnt have tons of cool looking mutated fish
heady spear
o that's very true
zealous knot
eve saw a dude swim in the radioactive lake
heady spear
plus now we have a fun postapocalyptic wasteland in the middle of europe
zealous knot
that's a yikes
heady spear
it's still a thing, some of it has decayed (obviously) and they've also shot at it(?) in order to see if they can break it up
zealous knot
what
placid thicket
anybody know if coreprotect works proper for 1.15? (i know it wont handle 1.15 blocks yet)
fallen oracle
You can always test it.
unreal quarry
coreprotect cant even handle saving potion data in chests anymore. its a dead plugin
placid thicket
oh? been using it all of 1.14 fairly successfully (except for when our host's DB dies 15 times a day)