most of the other reasons have to do with it sucking tho tbh
#general
pulsar wigeon
quasi valley
semantics ¯_(ツ)_/¯
pulsar wigeon
it's more of a convenience thing than a security thing
pretty easy to trick most of that stuff
merry talon
if you already have someone's fingerprint sure
that's not the threat model for most people
limber knotBOT
woo I own a house
merry talon
implanted rfid devices are going to be the future anyway
pulsar wigeon
a real one?
merry talon
just now?
limber knotBOT
Just got back from the closing
pulsar wigeon
what are you going to do with it?
limber knotBOT
Keep my stuff there
pulsar wigeon
seems like an expensive storage unit
limber knotBOT
Yeah but I don't have to go to the gas station across the street to wash my clothes in the sink
merry talon
but that's the fun part
limber knotBOT
he has ascended into bot heavens
spare furnace
limber knotBOT
nooo, im a bot!
golden gust
i thoud dat bots r smert
quasi valley
gotta get out there quickly
limber knotBOT
Now that you left and we opened the window thankfully the smell is gone again
golden gust
Needs more 💣
golden gust
Bahahahaaaaaaa....
patent wraith
What's going on?
quasi valley
the bots are revolting 
pulsar wigeon
we're bombing bots apparently
golden gust
Basically, we're expecting our PM to break the law
(I mean, he did that already, but still...)
quasi valley
good old boris
limber knotBOT
Not that he didn't do that before 😂
golden gust
Am I the only one who can't look at boris without seeing ralph wiggum?
limber knotBOT
And cat was referring to us Germans uncovering bad ww2 brit bombs here all the time
primal tulip
haughty widget
queen mirage
dull crypt
is any1 here java dev?
rare palm
no
dark zinc
pulsar wigeon
everyone here is a lisp developer
rare palm
whats the point neppkun
dark zinc
wdym amar
dark zinc
rare palm
dark zinc
👏
broken cypress
anyone know a good farmworld plugin
pulsar wigeon
are you asking because you like clojure?
aka lisp for jvm?
if so then yes, that was specifically targeted as an insult to you
otherwise no, it was obviously just to fuck with the guy for asking a retarded question
woven otter
everyone is a skript developer here
granite pasture
pulsar wigeon
:^)
safe tide
What does it take to host a maven repo for storing dependencies. I thought a simple file server would do it
minor bramble
golden gust
Using something like nexus makes it easier, but all it really requires is a specific file structure on the disk, maven has wagons to help with that stuff, but never used that so 🤷
safe tide
http://qballsrepo.tk/ that is what I have now but I get [WARNING] Checksum validation failed, expected <html> but is blah from it when trying to use it
void void
safe tide
May have to get nexus or something similar
frank mango
safe tide
well @void void will this run on pi?
void void
absolutely
void void
not sure how you got that checksum error
safe tide
no?
void void
e.g apache or nginx or something like that
safe tide
apache
void void
then make sure that you make upload limits larger
void void
maven uses PUT to upload artifacts, you should bump it up to 50mb or so
if you have really large artifacts then consider using even larger limit
safe tide
Oh I just use this for downloading dependencies some of my projects depend on shit without a repo
I just upload the depenedencies from my laptops m2 home to the file server using filezilla
rough rampart
rare shore
woven otter
@void void were where you earlier when I wanted to setup something lightweight
void void
i'm always here my dude
woven otter
well at least now I starred it for future reference
astral saffron
limber knotBOT
Heh
Helen just said that mojang would never put out an official modding API since they don't want to compete with existing community projects
After all, lex needs food on the table ^^
upper flicker
It used to be they said they wouldn’t because they couldn’t
Then again I suppose they have enough on their plate without that
limber knotBOT
Yeah, that was my last stance too
They want to expend data packs, but they don't see that as a competition to forge or bukkit
I just wish they would open the client a bit more like bedrock did :S
Bedrock and open?
well I mean from a server's viewpoint
Bedrock is very closed by design, it's what they want to evolve into a competitive environment
you can add custom entities and guis and stuff
Oh
winter sundial
bedrock seems like it supports more modification of the game itself through their methods, but not in general
limber knotBOT
Interesting
Bedrock is getting a new renderer
And the team tried integrating it into Java
(Nova style, if you know that project)
And it worked
But Matt doesn't want to tell more
Its called render dragon and already powers Minecraft Earth
rip every clientside mod xD
“RenderDragon is basically a stand-alone graphics engine that will replace the graphics layer in Bedrock that sits between gameplay code and the graphics API. It's inspired and designed based on modern graphics engines and is not specific to Minecraft"
quasi valley
java's rendering is worked on eitherway with blaze3d; currently the inv item display looks a bit like in bedrock... which is hopefully a bug, cause it looks awful 
limber knotBOT
why would it be a bug in a brand new engine? lol
Helen said she doesn't know if blaze3d is still being worked on and they are all secret and stuff
Man they need to get the NDA channel up so I can get the real info 😂
inb4 they move away from java on the clientside
quasi valley
isnt it public that blaze3d is just being worked on and tested with the snapshots?
limber knotBOT
Nah gameplay would still be placed ontop
quasi valley
or am I totally on the wrong path
quasi valley
item displays look different, particles are finally rendered BEFORE water/clouds, there were/are still rendering issues with most entities
looks like more than just namespaces
limber knotBOT
Idk, it just doesn't look like the big bang one would expect from a all new rendering layer that was written from scratch
Yes, they are trying to fix old rendering bugs, but that's it?
Idk, we will see I guess
quasi valley
prolly not from scratch, but it must be a lot more than just fixing 1-2 bugs
limber knotBOT
But there isn't anything like that in the game right now, right?
limber knotBOT
I guess they are fixing bugs in the layer ontop of the old renderer and blaze3d rn
And once that's good, they can throw it out?
quasi valley
no idea, I just know that there are quite a lot of rendering bugs, literally everywhere
limber knotBOT
New ones?
quasi valley
yea
in the two screens it's
- overly lit entities 2) wrongly colored spawnegg 3) weirdly? colored items in the inventory
that's just what I got from starting the snapshot and messing around for a few minutes, and as I've heard there's a lot more
but mojang have also acknowledged it and asked the community to search for all of those new rendering bugs
shadow ermine
limber knotBOT
When I last heard about blaze3d in late August it sounded like it was still far away for a point where they would call it prod ready and having all features they want
Like, they want to utilize Opengl 3
quasi valley
I think that's actually already the requirement since the latest snapshot(s?)
but maybe I'm just confusing it with their announcement for its upcoming arrival
ah nvm, in 34a it says Minecraft: Java Edition now requires OpenGL 2.0, not 3
limber knotBOT
Dungeons is UE4 yes. Though I should clear up: RenderDragon is just a graphics engine, gameplay code still deals with entity models, block models, chunk tessellation, etc. RenderDragon takes all the "frame objects" and sorts then draws them the best way it can on each platform.
Man he's being so secretive, I can see him typing stuff, then deleting it again cause hes fears breaking his NDA
But there is a possibility that they could bring this graphics layer to Java
why are they writing their own engine? Oo
And it could enable rtx support
They always did?
heady spear
Yay then I can make use of my overpriced 2080
limber knotBOT
yes, but why do it again instead of using existing stuff that works pretty good?
Render dragon is made by a team of 8 ppl if I understood this correctly
Cause customizability is important
I guess most engines have issues with large worlds like minecraft but still...
or well *lots of engines
there's tons of them out there xD
Yeah, they are just not made for smth like this
heady spear
Don’t they want more version parity etc? Then using the same rendering engine would be a step in the right direction. Plz
limber knotBOT
I mean, what engine does stuff like cubeworld use?
It's no a fully rendering engine, it's just a layer above graphic apis like Opengl or direct x if I understood this correctly
interesting, I guess we'll get proper Vulcan support eventually xD
He also wouldn't say dxr but that was kinda implied
(I explicitly asked about Ray tracing and he said it enables talking to all kind of graphic apis)
dapper nacelle
onyx walrus
cosmic raft
its so wrong
but
i like the ryzen, amd ones
intel would be okay with a different font
granite pasture
nvidia geforce looks pretty good still
celest coyote
someone DM'd me to make a paid fork of my DMS plugin that I discontinued 
heady spear
DMS?
potent warren
Me and @zealous knot were talking about this on another server. What is the technical reason as to why a player, when connecting to a proxy like Bungee, has to be authenticated with Mojang on the proxy instead of the encryption stuff and authentication being handled by the proxied server?
bitter ravine
hot gorge
Mojang keeps the dicks out, Nick.
peak dirge
@potent warren The handshake for Mojang involves actions on the client and server. The proxy can't initiate the client-side requests for you, since it needs the user's access token.
hot gorge
Want a pie analogy for this too?
zealous knot
potent warren
Dicks out for Mojang
zealous knot
No
hot gorge
Now you're on to something
potent warren
Tuz, so that's why the proxy doesn't passthrough the authentication packets?
peak dirge
Correct - because it's using the proxy's private key, not the backend server's.
zealous knot
Wait
peak dirge
Even if you reused the keys, the client has already been authenticated!
zealous knot
Private keys? 
peak dirge
zealous knot
I actually vaguely recall something about keys in bungee when I was doing a little work for some no name network, I wonder what it was about
peak dirge
This does a better treatment of it from the technical end of things. Basically, the server and client need to exchange a secret securely over an insecure connection. So the server sends a "public key" to the client, the client generates a "shared secret", calls Mojang's client-side join API, and then sends an encrypted copy of the shared secret to the server. Then the server can authenticate the player with Mojang and ensure a secure connection between the client and the server.
potent warren
So basically, there's no way around having the authentication done at the edge proxy server, right?
peak dirge
More resources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_(cryptosystem) - Used by Minecraft to generate the public key to share with the client and the private key for the proxy to keep.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_secret - The thing that we have to exchange securely from the client to the server, which is then used as the encryption key.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard - Online-mode connections are encrypted with this algorithm.
Correct - there's no way around it.
potent warren
So, even Velocity does it this way
peak dirge
Correct.
heady spear
Holy embeds
peak dirge
Every Minecraft server does it this way, it's part of the protocol that every Minecraft server and proxy has to "speak"
Again, Wikipedia will give you a good understanding of the basics of cryptography
potent warren
But even if we could authenticate the player through the target server, we'd still need ip forwarding for it to work decently at the other side, or am I mixing stuff?
peak dirge
Now, in offline mode, the connection is simply established and there is no cryptography involved - everything is sent in cleartext.
zealous knot
Basically all of this was sparked from me being butthurt that somewhere in the distant past you could join as someone else with absolutely no authentication using a fake bungee server and the destinations server's real IP
peak dirge
That doesn't work, either. Mojang can see that your client IP mismatches with the authenticating IP from the proxy, and it could refuse the connection.
There's a reason why BungeeQuack and Velocity "modern" forwarding exists, and it's because "you could join as someone else with absolutely no authentication using a fake bungee server"
hard viper
This was a thing in the past
Pre 1.3.1 to be exact
When auth just sent a client token
Or maybe it was at beta
I don't remember.
peak dirge
I know it's a thing in beta.
hard viper
But anyway, you could go middle man on those versions.
potent warren
I remember there was some kind of UUIDSpoof thingy
hard viper
There still is, if oyu don't secure backed servers.
We are talking about old mojang auth protocol there, not uuid spoofing.
golden gust
velocity and bungeeguard both basically add a token so that only approved proxies can join
hard viper
No
golden gust
vs bungees mechanism which just cares that the forwarded data is passed through
hard viper
Afaik it's not just the token.
peak dirge
BungeeGuard passes a token to the server, Velocity uses HMAC signing
golden gust
ah
potent warren
BungeeGuard? Oof never heard of that.
hard viper
But yeah, TBH passing tokes doesn't make sense.
Since you can and should secure the direct access using firewall
peak dirge
^^^^
potent warren
(A bit of offtopic) So, per my understanding, there's no way to encrypt an offline-mode connection with a nothian client, right?
peak dirge
Technically, it's possible, with a modified server and client.
Or you could have a modified server that does the encryption but never actually contacts Mojang to verify the login
celest coyote
yeah you def need custom client and server
hard viper
You will still have to transfer the key from bungee to server that way.
Kinda doesn't make sense anyway.
TBH, it doesn't really make sense to encrypt bungee <-> backend connections.
And you will still have to decrypt messages bungee side to make API things work
celest coyote
it kinda does if your bungee servers are distributed outside of one location physically
peak dirge
If you're paranoid, it's 100% possible to encrypt proxy<->backend connections, but it's really niche, and if you're that concerned, there are better options available (such as using WireGuard as an internal VPN).
hard viper
Yeah, i know that nothing heats the room better than CPU doing useless spins.
Where is my P4
celest coyote
like if you have to communicate over the internet but you could always do some sort of VPN/tunneling setup
peak dirge
Not only that, but WireGuard uses more modern cryptography than Minecraft does (still using 1024-bit RSA keys!)
hard viper
You probably should do this anyway.
Since you may have other LAN resources
Like redis/sql, etc.
Better hide all the shit behind VPN
So it never ever gets exposed.
peak dirge
going to eat now
potent warren
Why not just use something like the Pterodactyl panel and just expose the proxy server?
Serious question btw ^
hard viper
You always expose the proxy server, players won't be able to join otherwise
But any other internal shit should be hidden behind vpn.
That has 2 benefits
potent warren
Well, what if I set the proxy to run on <public ip>:25565 and the rest on 127.0.0.1:2556X?
limber knotBOT
I mean if you are paranoid about your host wiretapping your server connections then you should really switch host...
hard viper
Well, it's possible that you can make mistake in configuring something
celest coyote
the problem with using a VPN is that you kinda have to do some setup so that latency is minimized
hard viper
The VPN is an extra layer of security.
potent warren
How do large networks do?
hard viper
Tho yes, you will have to configure it.
potent warren
I'd love to know their secrets.
hard viper
And the other good part is that you can set all your ip address shit to your internal network addresses.
limber knotBOT
I mean there are pretty easy vpn solutions out there for stuff like this. e.g. tinc or zerotier
hard viper
So you won't have to reconfigure all that shit if you have to change the real ip addresses.
limber knotBOT
I always wanted to do that for my server but right now everything is on one machine so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
hard viper
Works too
limber knotBOT
btw. an alternative to setting up a vpn would be to just use hostnames everywhere xD
potent warren
do it
proud lance
whats the purpose of this?
limber knotBOT
yeah, editing one file seems to be a lot easier than setting up a vpn (corectly) xD
proud lance
jw
hard viper
The real hard part of setting up is making it actually peer to peer
Because you don't want to route everything to a single gateway
potent warren
How do large networks do load balancing with Bungee?
limber knotBOT
what kind of load balancing do you mean?`
hard viper
Afaik they just do round-robin dns
potent warren
Load balancing as in: not overloading the proxy server.
versed spruce
hard viper
Multiple bungees
potent warren
yeah, but how do they manage handling the players?
hard viper
???
potent warren
I could've worded that better. xD
In terms of connecting to the server's IP, how do they know which proxy to send you to?
potent warren
This is too advanced for me ;-;
oh well, thank you for answering my stupid questions ^-^
limber knotBOT
I mean it's nothing that can't be learned by a quick google search xD
potent warren
well, the problem is that I'm not smart enough to search that
somber breach
woven otter
oh no
mental kayak
i came here in need of assistance
woven otter
only IJ allowed here
woven otter
no u
mental kayak
no we
woven otter
who are we
limber knotBOT
why tf is some rando messaging me about whether or not I'm going to write plugins for hytale?
static badge
are you?
woven otter
as if hytale will ever be released
static badge
Their marketing was too early
limber knotBOT
I mean if their servers are compatible with vanilla clients and are way better in regards to performance then maybe I would switch
woven otter
yeah. like how long ago was it advertised
limber knotBOT
but I doubt that will be the case xD
static badge
probably better in perf tbh
You'd need to try to be worse than vanilla at this point
peak kite
is dynmap purgemap the best way to clear a dynmap map? i get tile MySQL write error; lock wait timeout exceeded on very large maps... tried to tweak mysql settings ... helped a bit, but still happens, probably doesn't matter, dynmap SHOULD retry the transaction.... and the total number of locks exceeds the lock table size error....
signal yoke
Does anyone know what this is exactly?
I don't really understand what information this adds
This is in the Schematic file format
pulsar wigeon
that's literally the information everyone cares about in schematics
it's the actual blocks
"what information this adds"
lol
pulsar wigeon
that's TileEntities
limber knotBOT
since some time i rarely have the bug on my server that when a player gets teleported, the server sees him at the correct location, but the player sees himself at the old location
on a 1.14.4 server
does anyone else have this bug? or any idea how i could debug it
the teleport plugin does everything on the main thread, so there are no async teleports or other things that i would expect to fail, so maybe its a server bug
warped spear
out of curiousity how did paper do async chunk rendering
like specifically what method was used to dispatch the work to another thread
I am a cs student making a compute renderer mod for minecraft via opengl compute shaders
and am curious to how you were able to disptch the work to another thread
jaunty oriole
warped spear
thank you
i am honestly suprised no one has tried to use gpgpu for minecraft yet though
the closest thing i have seen is nova renderer
which is a rewrite in rust using vulkan
undone turret
inland bramble
chrome cliff
jade bronze
stone silo
noble elm
cosmic raft
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) flora cash - You're Somebody Else (Official Lyric Video) - length 3m 43s - 599,503 likes, 7,259 dislikes (98.8%) - 55,380,692 views - FloraCashVEVO on 2018.08.28
marble axle
limber knotBOT
weird
tranquil willow
limber knotBOT
was it daylight saving time just now?
nope
facebook's messenger is 1 hour off for some reason
upper flicker
gogo minecraft
warped spear
does minecraft run entities off the the main thread or on there own thread
ancient bolt
@upper flicker I see you've unlocked powerup mode
vestal jasper
mc's mostly single threaded
vestal jasper
on the main thread yes
warped spear
ok then that is something i am gonna have to look into desyncing from the main thread
vestal jasper
good luck
static badge
gl with that
warped spear
I am a cs student with too much time and no social life
so hopefully works
but compute shaders while hell to work with have the advantage of being stupidly flexible
like you can use them for more or less anything that has math
peak kite
Cs huh? 1. coffee, 2. sleep makes your brain suck. 3. eat meals every 4 hours, even when you should be sleeping. 4. when sleeping, sleep for a 12 hour period. repeat?.
warped spear
that hit too close to home fam
why you gotta do me like that
just wanted to improve game with gpgpu
and also can confirm had 4 cups of coffee today
and slept for 4 hours
satureday slept for 14
warped spear
ouch
peak kite
best coding to be had: no sleep day 2, midday
vestal jasper
Welcome to the paper discord.
Say or do the wrong things and people will call you out for it.
vestal jasper
I never said that
void void
we all shit on eachother here, its how we roll
ancient bolt
bruh if you think that's rough you're gonna have a tough time here
void void
big shitfest
warped spear
i am being sarcastic
i don't give a shit lol
XD
the reason I asked was cause I was looking at mostly using compute shaders for chunk rendering howerver i had a thought it might also be doable for entities
and came to paper discord cause I know you guys had async chunk renderer in the past
I am looking to do the same thing but throw it on a gpu instead
cause fuck it why not
ancient bolt
I can think of several reasons
static badge
🍿
ancient bolt
but have fun, college is a great time to do this shit
void void
So i'm going to try adding a globlal id field to iblockdata, what can go wrong?
for (int i = 0; i < Block.REGISTRY_ID.size(); i++) Block.REGISTRY_ID.fromId(i).globalId = i;
ancient bolt
you will probably have a shitton more time now than you will later
and more energy
God I'm so depressed
warped spear
well i am doing other thing with this but the was the memed explanation of this
a more intelligent method of explaining myself would be offloading math calculations to the gpu via an opengl compute shader
ancient bolt
@void void please follow enterprise code standards, int is not enterprise, please use Integer
for (Integer i = 0; i < Block.REGISTRY_ID.size(); i++)
static badge
talk about cancer
void void
i'll use double for more precision
warped spear
lol your gonna hate what intend to do then
warped spear
half precision lmao
ancient bolt
for (Integer i = new Integer(0); i < Block.REGISTRY_ID.size(); i = new Integer(i + 1))
warped spear
i mean its fine for shading mostly
static badge
not
for (Integer i = new Integer(0); i < Block.REGISTRY_ID.size(); i = new Integer(new Integer(i) + new Integer(1)))
void void
no we need MAX OPTIMIZATION:
for(int i=Block.REGISTRY_ID.size();i--;)
void void
put the decrement there, less code
warped spear
i wonder if you could run a schedular off a gpu
ancient bolt
if you're gonna computer with the GPU at least use the right terminology
opencl for compute, not opengl
static badge
personally I compute via graphing
warped spear
opencl is more traditional
ancient bolt
also if you're doing anything other than matrix floating point math or a problem set which can be coerced into that problem set then yeah the GPU is not a good fit
void void
graphing calculator? any of you coded much tibasic?
ancient bolt
basically if you can solve it with linear algebra the GPU can maybe do it more efficiently
warped spear
well for what i have in mind opengl works bette
ancient bolt
but memory throughput becomes a huge concern there
void void
@ancient bolt so when some article describes something as a magic bullet it's not always true?
warped spear
opencl is great if you want to do a ton of number crunching but compute shaders are better if you want to render with that math
i mean there is an opencl opengl library
ancient bolt
GPUs are extremely good at being GPUs because they're designed specifically to solve their one problem set, what can I say
¯_(ツ)_/¯
warped spear
the main feature of this project will be async chunk loading via gpu acceration
ancient bolt
all gpu compute really does is twist problems around so they fit well in that realm, if you can't do that then you won't be successful
I mean sure it'll probably work
just like you can run a normal hello world program on a quantum computer
it'll just be ridiculously slow and inefficient
I will say, by all means try. If nothing else it'll be fun and you might learn a lot from it
honest estuary
ancient bolt
But I'm an ass sometimes so here I am I guess idk
void void
@warped spear call him a buttface doodie head
warped spear
no he is probably right but I will do this for science
warped spear
and hell if it works then 1024 render distance anyone XD
but in all likely hood this will fail
but fuck it it will be fun
void void
what year CS are you
warped spear
first year
void void
so what like fundamentals of programming stuff
ancient bolt
@static badge if the loop got big enough we'd actually want to autobox btw
since cache lookups would be slower once we're outside of the cache range
would be extra work for no benefit
static badge
yeah technically
celest coyote
first years be like: what is a computer
warped spear
I am sophmore but freshman year was all core crap
static badge
but that's using too much brain power
void void
some first years are lmao
warped spear
half the people in my fundementals class didn't know the difference between JRE and JDK
:/
celest coyote
at my uni something like 40% of people drop out in 1st and 2nd year
static badge
the jre compiles and the jdk runs 
ancient bolt
for (Integer i = 128; i < 10000; i++) is less efficient than for (Integer i = new Integer(128); i < 10000; i = new Integer(i + 1))
celest coyote
its all easy shit until they hit data structures
void void
i have an opinion: if you haven't already figured out how to code by 18 years of age, you can't code
coder types just figure shit out
warped spear
yup
static badge
your opinion sucks
ancient bolt
prplz is a 60 year old guy who can't code
void void
your leaf suck
void void
have computer, will code
warped spear
i learned cause I needed to unfuck a lot of minecraft mods when i was a kid
celest coyote
sounds like hell
ancient bolt
real (wo)?men don't need a computer to code
celest coyote
real men code using pen and paper
warped spear
that and modifying drivers for overclocking hax XD
proud lance
warped spear
tbh i will sorta illustrate stuff out on paper occasionally
so i got a visual of what I want to make
not sure if that makes sene
void void
a flow diagram?
warped spear
sorta?
warped spear
usually more like a tree chart
like mostly to keep track of where i am in chains of things
void void
celest coyote
I just imagine everything in my head and then forget it 2 days later if I stop working on it
void void
yeh a flow diagram ;p in business, we typically use visio for that and then use it to design the architecture
celest coyote
if you ever ask me how my old code works, I'll have no idea
void void
thats just bc ur stupid
celest coyote
you too ❤
warped spear
i actually wonder if you could run the world gen math of a gpu
vestal jasper
simple you're retarded
warped spear
i know very little tbh about the inner workings of minecraft
vestal jasper
you should contribute to the server instead of the client so 1.14 isn't as much of a piece of shit :^)
warped spear
i learned java out of curiousity from fixing mod conflicts
but never really bothered to mess around making my own stuff till recently
vestal jasper
and witness leaf leaving 70+ reviews about every single aspect of your pr
warped spear
and always wanted to try stuff with gpu compute
static badge
warped spear
so though why not this
celest coyote
I'm fairly sure world gen can be extremely parallelized however its bottlenecked by something
been hearing it only takes up 2 cores or something
warped spear
like i thought of using a gpu for a lot of this cause minecraft is mostly just a bunch of math am I wrong
celest coyote
everything is mostly just a bunch of math
just because its math doesn't mean GPU is a good fit
warped spear
like i mean in the sense of a lot of floating points
void void
a lot of the slowness might not be the math, but the way its all structured
warped spear
like i said don't know minecrafts code that well and mojang's documntation sucks
i did managed to look through the rendering pipeline and it was terrible
pulsar wigeon
what documentation
void void
warped spear
not documentation
just from poking through it
the opengl is bad
but i was also complaigning that there is no real documentation
peak kite
Meanwhile... in other news... Testing companies everywhere are complaining about the samples that they are getting due to the new youth fad of eating asparagus just before piss testing, the stench is creating a lab hazmat condition.
void void
celest coyote
yeah well most of the code is obfuscated and built on top of an engine made by notch in his basement
celest coyote
its called a tumour
peak kite
is that like the pirate 8 pieces of 9?
warped spear
if you could call it an engine even
peak kite
A Kludge?
warped spear
sock with a brick in it
peak kite
attached to a jet engine?
void void
TIL that in the philippines they reenact the crucifixion every good friday
and dont even take it lightly
they literally nail themselves to crosses
nail.
static badge
you should be nailed to a boat and left at sea
void void
been der done dat
peak kite
salty dog.
void void
check that out tho, straight up nailed https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Resolute_guy_on_the_cross.jpg/1280px-Resolute_guy_on_the_cross.jpg
static badge
could be worse
void void
well i mean
they arent doing it to die lmao
it's a reenactment
that guy has done it for the past 28 years
been cruficied 28 times lmao
peak kite
the piercing people who hang on hooks in their skin proved hanging only by nails in the hands is totally doable.. no need for the white and red cloth to help.. 😉
peak kite
yea that might help for a bit.. ...
void void
again, reenactment, not actually being cruficied for punishment
warped spear
you would think mojang could fix the games performance now that they got microsoft money
peak kite
Ahh, my young CS student. you have yet to learn about future roadmap programming models.
void void
you dont actually know what they're going to do
peak kite
don't give em ALL they want.. ever. stretch it out...
void void
we only know of the snapshots and can sort of guess
and yea actually paper...that's...not exactly wrong
;p
peak kite
make that profit model last the next 10 years!
warped spear
i would go straight to 4.6 personally
peak kite
your shareholders will pat you on the back.
warped spear
compute shaders > normal render pipeline
peak kite
never go full testing, only do 1/8 testing.
then do release and call it gold.
NEVER pay a company to test your app. it will fail. if you don't test, then you don't fail.
YOUR app is the best, ever. NEVER say otherwise.
when you sell lots of units with promise. release a new version that must be paid for again, and say promises are in the next version.
all future code should be paid DLC.
implement a subscription model once you have 79% market. now you can track everyone.
sell tracking data.
shareholders pat you on back again.
warped spear
so wait prioritize building something economically sustainable over the best possible solution
huh
peak kite
"economically bulldozing" is the better description. theres no way that model can be sustained.
warped spear
ah
so build half a mod that over promised but does enough to get funding
and then slowly add the promised features that are ever dissapointing over 10 years
hmm
peak kite
feel free to abandon the program at any time and file for bankruptcy to get out. just make sure you get that island purchased before...
warped spear
perfection
peak kite
dynmap pause all should be run if you need to restart the server in the middle of a dynmap fullrender, ALSO after pausing, wait about 30 minutes(or more) for the zoom out tiles to render, , then restart server, this should prevent the black squares. A dynmap bug? in not remembering zoom out tiles needing to be processed if server is restart before finished???
And i think it only uses a single core right on the server thread, to do that zoom out processing, so it takes long time, and grinds the server core pretty hard. And i don't think it can be paused.
void void
Very cool Clozemaster, thanks! https://f.jacob.engineer/gSwCYBSu.png
Just what I always wanted to know how to say
silk karma
placid thicket
peak kite
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) Pink Floyd Welcome to the Machine - length 7m 40s - 18,913 likes, 588 dislikes (97.0%) - 6,306,140 views - Alan C on 2008.07.20
digital veldt
void void
wait today is 1st oct
fuck
thought that there's 31. sept and i can continue procastinating my school stuff
that reminds me, im doing the exact same fucking thing i did last unit in math
that is,
not doing it.
that's it
i'm so fucking done with myself
i'll start doing homework RIGHT NOW
...and all the stuff in classes what i've skipped
also slept in to maths class today, opened my eyes 7min before it started
😒
quasi valley
spooktober 
woven otter
nouktober
vestal jasper
hacktober
cosmic raft
past imp
quasi valley
fahrenheit 
quasi valley
using an outdated measurement of a polish/dutch/german -ish guy
it's always so weird seeing terms like fahrenheit or kindergarten
but then again, we yoinked terms like pullover or t-shirt
heady spear
Celsius is the way to go, man. Let the Swedes rule the world 🙂
quasi valley
the sweebs*
cedar coral
How do you people host your servers? Haven't hosted a server since like 2012 when MC hosting and shared nodes were blooming but surely a Dedicated server has to be better when you're closing in on 120 plugins?
Anyone tried AWS?
dusk drift
Don't use AWS
limber knotBOT
I don't think AWS has good CPUs
(or they are way overpriced)
most people probably just use OVH (at least in europe)
peak dirge
For AWS you'd quickly be paying an outrageous price for an instance type that can actually run Minecraft.
If you really want go down the VPS route, DigitalOcean or Linode are good options
icy pewter
120 plugins
limber knotBOT
I mean the amount doesn't really matter, it's what they do xD
heady spear
limber knotBOT
fookin weebs
actually I'm sort of curious on how it performs
lol the limitations thpo
makes sense seeing as these things aren't cenceored that often... not that I would know
this is way more important though: https://github.com/taki0112/UGATIT
censorship in japan is pretty interesting, every time I see it brought up it seems like no one there actually believes it should be a thing but no one wants to become the dude whose legacy was to remove censorship from porn
hey japan I'll do it for you, just say that it was submitted under my name
it's not like I'd even be able to understand what people would say about me anyway
I doubt a foreigner could have such an impact on japan, lol
I mean technically you could do it
guess it depends on the requirements on who can become an elected official in a position that could push a bill
nah, you would need public support to change stuff like that
that's what I'm saying though
it seems like the public support is there
but no one wants to put that under their name
at least that's what I've heard
if people really care about changing it then they would actually push for it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
idk I don't think I'd go protest on the streets to uncensor my porn
and I sure as shit wouldn't want to be associated with someone who did lol
so you are just one of those people who don't care enough :P
I care about some stuff
not this lol
merry talon
idk I don't think I'd go protest on the streets to uncensor my porn
well that's lame
I would
as long as I'm not alone lol
pulsar wigeon
just gotta hide it in some other legislation :^)
limber knotBOT
get some friends together and start a circlejerk Sweepyoface
woven schooner
cedar coral
Are paypal chargebacks still a big problem when you're using buycraft?
pulsar wigeon
why wouldn't they be
cedar coral
Idk It's been 5 years since I last dealth with them. Hoped that paypal might have gotten better at dealing with them
golden gust
payment platform is irrelevant, only real gains of using such a provider is that they often have their own blacklists of past offenders
dusk drift
Chargebacks will always be a thing, you just have to gain good rep with Paypal and prevent it and just know what your doing when it happens
limber knotBOT
?ask
If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for staff or topic experts. Don't ask to ask or ask if people are awake or available. Just ask the question to the channel straight out, and wait patiently for a reply. http://i.imgur.com/uqFLG1E.png
limber knotBOT
.g oracle java nuts and bolts
(phoenix616) https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/index.html -- Lesson: Language Basics (The Java™ Tutorials > Learning the...: "The Java Tutorials have been written for JDK 8. Examples and practices described in this page don't take advantage of improvements introduced in..."
e.g. that
wide chasm
He's using irc
limber knotBOT
#BotsRights!
quasi valley
bots stink
limber knotBOT
;_;
stone silo
@dark zinc are you asking how to learn Java as a language, or how to program in general, and you're going to be using Java
stone silo
well which of the two? Are you an experienced programmer?
stone silo
okay:
- Learn what types are and how they work (this becomes VERY important and causes frustration if you're not familiar with programming)
- Review other plugin code, start with small plugins
- Set up your IDE properly: https://www.spigotmc.org/wiki/creating-a-blank-spigot-plugin-in-intellijidea/
- Configure your environment to use the debugger functionality of Intellij. It's absolutely essential if you want to know what's happening with your code.
stone silo
Integrated Development Environment. It's a fancy text editor that has a ton of programming-related features.
dark zinc
ohh
stone silo
Project management, debugger, refactoring tools, profilers, etc
In general news, this is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsYaG8_GMfg
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) Fast Hoppers - length 3m 4s - 2,389 likes, 5 dislikes (99.8%) - 16,730 views - ilmango on 2019.10.01
stone silo
Should be able to remove the bottleneck in my super smelter
limber knotBOT
boys if gamerboi sweat could sell on the internet I'd be making a killing rn
so sweaty
warped spear
same for self deprecating humor in my case
on a side not got do i hate compute shaders
but they are the only method i can think of on how to do my project
limber knotBOT
stop throwing shade at shaders
warped spear
coding thing
not shaders as in shader packs
shaders as in way of doing stuff on a gpu written in opengl
warped spear
agreed
limber knotBOT
I feel like I'm on a throne
also it's the first office chair I've ever bought that is actually rated as compatible with my height
warped spear
always go bigger
warped spear
still not sure if I am stupid for trying to render chunks via a gpu rather than cpu
neon dagger
Woah my chat didn't update spooky.
warped spear
i wish mojang would provide documentation for the java edition
warped spear
i am gonna release it as a mod if i do
limber knotBOT
at that point you might as well ask to merge it into optifine or something
warped spear
on paper its possible via opengl 4.3 and later
void void
gpu rendering would be wild
warped spear
my professor loves minecraft so we can build a mod for our final project
limber knotBOT
if you have a discrete gcard, yeah
quasi valley
ours are as conservative as it can get
limber knotBOT
are you sure it's school and not just some crackhouse?
warped spear
i go to college in LA though so
quasi valley
gladly the linguistic/english department is a bit mroe liberal
solely doing informatics would make me hate life entirely
limber knotBOT
I fucking hate my linguistics department
limber knotBOT
actually scratch that, I fucking hate linguistics, the professors were fine... shame everyone got fired
warped spear
so I think i have an idea on how to do this
dispatch chunk rendering asynchrounouly to a compute shader using fp16
i could use fp32 but fp16 would be faster
merry talon
apple has been emailing me to update my payment info so i don't lose apple music for like 3 months
I wonder when they'll actually terminate it
warped spear
also i just realized when did they remove the advanced opengl option
like not that it mattered but i just notice it was gone
that had to be fun lol
heady spear
my C professor got confused when I used // and asked if that would compile properly
and the java lab assisant asked what a lambda was
wide chasm
I'm sorry for you
heady spear
I think my university is a giant prank show
Oh and on the C exam they asked me to explain how references are used in C and I just wrote that they're not used at all because C doesn't have references
warped spear
lmao
heady spear
I don't like they liked that answer but like... it's still correct
warped spear
i barely undstand C and i understand what your saying
and these people are paid
thank you for a good laugh
wide chasm
I learned references, because we're using C++ (and I hate it). To be honest, most of the time it's just, you pass the reference as an argument, cause otherwise that stuff needs to be copied, but don't modify it because scary side effects, so make it const.
warped spear
C++ scares me tbh
i have looked into learning it a few times then I get intimidated
heady spear
They were very confused when teaching pointers in C because they said that passing a pointer was pass-by-reference. Everything in C is pass-by-value, and so passing a pointer just passes a copy of the pointer. Idk how they're e ven allowed to teach
wide chasm
C++ is just... weird. Every time I use it, I get so confused about the language's design, I'm constantly asking myself wtf they were thinking.
warped spear
i think i might try and learn rust one of these days
heady spear
A great example is passing a pointer to a function, having that function set the pointer to point to another pointer, which won't update the original pointer. Instead, you have to pass a pointer to a pointer. Clearly pass-by-value. Moron professor.
warped spear
its got the performance of C++ but is a safer like java (won't hang a system over small memory leak)
they don't offer it at my college :/
heady spear
C++ isn't that bad. Modern C++ is just a bloody mess
wide chasm
It's not very hard, there are just design decisions that seem incredibly weird or stupid (or both).
heady spear
It's a bloody nightmare to deal with tbh .-.
warped spear
a fair number of them actually
heady spear
C++ is a weird language to teach at uni, so it's not that strange. Most opt for C when teaching native programming and then some other less disgusting object oriented language when teaching OOP
warped spear
i have come to hate GSLS
heady spear
Unless you take a class teaching something where the industry specifically uses C++, it's not a great choice
wide chasm
Apparently we can write feedback at the end of a course, so I'll just be telling him that C++ is whack and he should switch to something else.
warped spear
C++ is in a wierd place rn
heady spear
It's also quite hard to learn without knowing programming prior to learning the language.
warped spear
cause traditionally it was used a lot in video games
wide chasm
Unreal Engine still uses it iiirc
heady spear
We took matlab the first semester lmao, I both love and hate it
warped spear
but now a lot of people are switching to rust cause its actually faster and is memory safe
heady spear
C++ is a great language, it just doesn't make sense for a beginner
It's dope for embedded programming etc, but learn it further on 🤷
wide chasm
"C++ is a great language" ehm, then I haven't discovered that part in the course yet, I think.
heady spear
Then you're not learning it for a good purpose 🤷
warped spear
my first experience with coding was making custom gpu bios via hex editing (not sure if that counts as code but fuck it) then learned html and then java and opengl
wide chasm
That's definitely true, it's just used as a general purpose language, not for anything specifically.
heady spear
that's why it sucks
warped spear
hex sucks
heady spear
it's a bloody awful general purpose language
warped spear
well in gpu firmware atleast
wide chasm
You have to write programs like "verify if what the user entered is a correct id number"
warped spear
reading sequences of values backwards makes your head hurt
i wish java had some more manual memory management options though
like maybe as libraries you could import and use
wide chasm
Have you looked into Unsafe? /s
heady spear
What it does have works great. On the topic of that, I really need to play around with memory mapped files in Java
wtf steam =(((
That's how they taught C here stef, but now we're using it in Operating Systems and it's so much more interesting lmao
warped spear
i don't understand why they throw everything in mincraft on the main thread
it just seems so stupid
zealous knot
sees city typing
Aight lets see what he's bitching about now
heady spear
And in Computer Structure and Design, but then we have to manually translate C code into MIPS assembler and that sucks 😠
wide chasm
I think I'll be getting C too at some point.
Along with Scala, because Java apparently isn't good enough anymore smh
tawdry coyote
yeah that's what my prof said we're gonna have to do in future courses along with making our own compiler, reee i still got 4yrs tho so im chillin
heady spear
C is fun 😛
warped spear
it not that java isn't good its just not very scalable compared to a lot of other languages
heady spear
I mean I don't mind any of my computer science related courses. At least I'm not doing physics
I failed wave mechanics lmao so I have to retake that bitch of a course next semester
warped spear
still better than python
wide chasm
I've had no problem with scalability of Java in the past.
heady spear
Java is extremely scalable
wide chasm
Haven't used Scala though, so...
warped spear
i mean compared to Scala and other things in that vain
tawdry coyote
yeah eventually I'm going to get to learning kotlin, scala, and groovy, but first gotta do hw ezpz
warped spear
like its totally fine for most things
heady spear
Java is fine for everything that doesn't include any sort of graphical output because bloody hell is that an awful experience
wide chasm
Just draw to a Java Swing pane /s
heady spear
So in our OOP class we had to use Swing which made me suidical. Then I thought, hm, maybe I should learn JavaFX. Made me twice as suicidal
warped spear
its cause the only thing java works with well for gpu is opengl
and opengl is well crap for the most part
wide chasm
I prefer JavaFX over Swing tbh. Although both suck for graphics stuff.
warped spear
not saying they are good
currently trying to do chunk rendering via compute shader
and already hate myself
heady spear
Like lwjgl is alright, but it's just... meh
That said, there are some half decent java game frameworks. JMonkey isn't totally bad
warped spear
like java is fine for a lot of things
wide chasm
I've heard good stuff about LibGDX, haven't used it myself though
warped spear
your just never gonna get a game like battlefield to run reasonably well in it
you can definitely make it run ok though
static badge
.lombok
limber knotBOT
[03:01:27] <gabizou> fuck you and the lombok horse you rode in on
lombok <3
runs
golden gust
I mean, if you're going to taint your codebase with lombok, at least be nice enough to keep it away from API
glares at bungee
hot gorge
taint
limber knotBOT
or just run delombok over the code before generating javadocs ;)
wide chasm
Are you saying that BungeeCord's API isn't perfect?! How dare you!
golden gust
We do, and getting that working was a royal fucking ballache/bitch
Compare waterfalls javadocs to bungees
stiff yarrow
I had to install a plugin just to make lombok syntax not shit
golden gust
(running that deployment profile locally will also break stuff until you run a clean)
woven otter
lombok is the best thing ever
quasi valley
🗡 🦆
halcyon blaze
warped spear
ok think i have an idea on how to do this
so dispatch the chunk renderer to a seperate that
then treat each chunk as an individual work group item(s)
so they can be automatically ran in parallel on the gpu
i will need to dispatch this to its own thread before the world gen occurs though
otherwise it will be slower
but if i run the world calculations on the gpu itself it should be around a 100x times faster
limber knotBOT
I hope you are talking about your own world generator and not the vanilla one
warped spear
final computer science project
using a gpu for chunk rendering instead of how minecraft normally does it
in theory it should also be possible to parallelize the vanilla one as long as its just math
kindred trench
limber knotBOT
well it isn't "just math"
warped spear
it is but it isn't
limber knotBOT
e.g. you have populators too
warped spear
true
limber knotBOT
which screw up multithreading if done wrong xD
warped spear
I could desync the entity renderer from the main thread and have it be determined by chunk renderer itself possibly
still in the research an planning phase
but the world gen and render can 100% be done on a gpu
sand jetty
low crest
shrewd iris
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) Minecraft Is A Perfectly Balanced Game With No Exploits - BOOKS = UNLIMITED DIAMONDS - length 26m 6s - 16,082 likes, 207 dislikes (98.7%) - 222,485 views - The Spiffing Brit on 2019.09.30
pulsar wigeon
is paper protected from clickbait
glossy citrus
It's the same as the .cbook hack with 1.14.4 clients just vanilla
pulsar wigeon
imagine calling a year old exploit new
stone silo
this video is cancer
warped spear
so what data is required per chunk
like what is the total make up of one on a data level
static badge
data
static badge
.g minecraft chunk format
limber knotBOT
(DiscordBot) https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Chunk_format -- Chunk format – Official Minecraft Wiki: "Sep 18, 2019 ... Chunks are stored as tags in regional Minecraft Anvil files, which are named in the form r.x.z.mca . They are stored in NBT format,..."
warped spear
oh
static badge
heightmaps, tile entities, entities, block data by section, tick lists
and structure data
static badge
the wiki states
warped spear
ok looks like a mix of floats and bytes
and a few doubles here and there
good news though is there is not too much here that can't be done on a gpu
now i gotta figure out how to reverse this into some form of matrix or something like that
lime venture
wow looking through the help channels i genuinely feel sorry for you guys
you should make some kind of entrance exam to make sure people have the slightest idea about how minecraft servers work before giving them the send messages permissions lmfao
dark zinc
I think I just got on an ip-logger lmao
golden gust
.flags
limber knotBOT
Optimized & Recommended JVM Startup Flags: https://mcflags.emc.gs
summer jackal
tkx so much, I forget the commad ❤
void void
candid wren
hi, i wanted to ask how the last paper version is working, and how optimized it is
im making a server with almost 30 (optimized) plugins
candid wren
no but i will hire some developers for some of the plugins and other ones are some i have been testing and work good, and there are a few ones for optimizing the server
pulsar wigeon
riiiight
candid wren
i wanted to know how much ram, and what cpu should be good for like 60 players
candid wren
yes survival 1.14.4
lime venture
do you have 60 players or is that just an optimistic max player count you made up?
lime venture
i just wanted to add you mentioned plugins for optimizing the server. most optimizations can be done directly in paper
austere ivy
very cool
candid wren
yes i know, and i did some things in the config