folia-help

[worn ridge]

I mean, it walks like Paper, it quacks like Paper, but it's not Paper in terms of compatibility.

But it's way easier to give compat to Folia than porting EVERYTHING to another software.

[magic orchid]

99% of things that work on Folia also work on Paper.
50% of things that work on Paper also work on Folia

[violet palm]

how do i make the region size smaller?

[magic orchid]

In the config you can change the grid-exponent.
But that will only have an effect if your players are at least 1k blocks apart from each other

[glacial gull]

Hello guys, I’m running a Folia server with around 500 players and I’m looking for a good anticheat.

Ive tried Matrix, Grim, and Lightning Grim, and they all work really well with 200 to 300 players. However, when the server goes beyond that, all players start to lag and their ping increases periodically.

Im currently using Light Anticheat, but its not updated and Im getting too many errors in the console.

[livid crag]

You should look at the spark report to see what can be addressed

If you are truly at that scale, you need to look into sharding solution like DonutSMP that host multiple Folia instances

[glacial gull]

Atm Its not possible for us to "shard" the server

The server is already running

But thank you for the support!

Do u have a documention about sharding or something like that?

[jolly glen]

How many netty threads are you currently using?

[glacial gull]

Im using 30 threads

500 players currently

[jolly glen]

Did you check how the netty threads are actually performing with spark?

I mean, that's a lot of players obviously 😅

[glacial gull]

Yeah I think thats the true problem lmao

I want to look into sharding, but I dont think Its possible with the server already running

[timber igloo]

there wont be any because very few servers have even ever done it successfully and they dont (fully) share their solutions

[umbral vault]

Custom design issue

Every servers have their custom solution for this area

[umbral vault]

Thats why there is no solution for general sharding

[mortal burrow]

shard in this case would be helpful to decrease ping? or what would be the main benefit

[magic orchid]

decreased server load by having less people per physical server

instead of having 1 server with 500 players, you have 2 servers with 250 each.
and then you got some sort of mechanism that allows players to transfer between the two servers

[fair merlin]

But yeah there’s no off the shelf solution for this. It’d be up to you to build something like it.

[primal oyster]

Honestly all of them

Are going to clog your netty threads

And to be very very honest with you

Every anticheat will suck the netty threads

Sharding helps but it ain't a miracle

[glacial gull]

Okay, thank you

Ill try to build something

[glacial gull]

Maybe with sharding I can run 3 servers with around 250 players each, then I can use an ac on each server

[edgy forge]

Is it me or did the "/datapack" command get removed from the latest version?

I cant seem to find the command in the list

[daring nimbus]

It never existed on Folia

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq/#what-commands-does-folia-disable

you can still load datapacks by putting them in the usual place though. but the command, and datapack functions, are disabled on Folia

[true creek]

The TPS and MSPT of my server are all within the normal range, but my players are experiencing lag. What solutions are available, or where should I start troubleshooting?

The player's ping is not high, with the highest being only 40ms

[timber igloo]

a spark profiler would defenetly help and a more 'specific' description of what 'lag' players are experiencing if their ping is fine

[true creek]

Well, I just used Spark to analyse it, but it told me the file is too large to upload....
The lag experienced by players occurs everywhere, such as breaking blocks or chatting. However, only some players lag, while others do not.

I'll try restarting Spark

This is my new spark

https://spark.lucko.me/54P9kLmZbQ

Amazing, clicking on the prompt shows no data

[true creek]

There is an issue, if you want to use Velocity, the server must be set to offline. Online-mode will be enabled on Velocity 🙁

[livid crag]

While this is true, your Velocity setting in paper-global.yml shows that your server is indeed using offline mode. spark is smart enough to detect this. You will not recieve any support from us as the community.

[mighty frost]

I have a folia 1.21.4 server. It is placed on a dedicated machine. I gave it 8 netty threads. TPS is fine, always 20 with nice mspt. Players connect to it through the different machine with Velocity. The both machine in the same data center.

But once there are more than 150 players everyone starts to have the ping spikes. I checked all the plugins and didn't find any specific one that would cause ping spikes. Why might it happen?

[magic orchid]

update to a supported version

1.21.4 is not supported anymore

[knotty finch]

how much ram does folia need?

I have a powerful cpu

goal is to run a duels server on the recent version like 1.21+ ig 1.21.11

[modest kestrel]

same as paper, maybe up to 5% more, thats it

[last sand]

Any good skyblock core for folia?

[little sable]

You can try my plugin: Skyllia, which is designed for Folia
you can easily find it on modrinth

@last sand

[fair merlin]

FYI, we generally prefer people not really shill their own stuff in help channels.

[little sable]

I suspect as much, which is why I preferred not to share the link, but publicly for the moment, there is literally only my plugin :/

But I'll be careful next time, sorry

[last sand]

Thanks mate, and yeah there is literally 0 other plugin

[slow elbow]

Hello, I have a server with Purpur software. If I want ti switch to folia, I have to do extra work or just drag and drop the folia jar?

[rare hare]

You'd have to ensure all the plugins you're currently using are compatible with Folia. I'm also not aware of what Purpur does with the configuration files, so you might have to adjust those.

It's probably easier to create the Folia server in a separate place and then move over the required files to the right places.

[slow elbow]

The actual worlds will be compromised?

[rare hare]

Assuming Purpur doesn't mess with the world files, it should be fine, you'd just need to copy those over.

[slow elbow]

Ok thanks man

[barren adder]

latest 1.21.11 Folia build bug with villagers
https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/436

[peak adder]

I got this problem too

[barren adder]

Hope it will be fix soon

[gleaming ginkgo]

hi, I need help. When my players die they spawn in "world" but I want them to spawn in "spawn" . I am trying for hours to fix this issue. How can I fix it?

[smoky escarp]

Explain more detail

[dim merlin]

i already explained to you that respawn locations dont work on folia
you cant fix it

[gleaming ginkgo]

I know but there should be a plugin/skript or anything else to get past this

because my server isnt the only one has this issue right?

[magic orchid]

a lot of "default" paper stuff is "do it yourself" on folia

[fair merlin]

@proper moon gifs and memes go in #gifs-and-memes

[livid sun]

Hi, are there any add-ons for Folia to modify worlds with new biomes? Are they recommended?

[magic orchid]

depends on what you mean with "modify worlds with new biomes".
if you mean just having custom world generation with custom biomes then yes, you can use datapacks for that.
if you mean to modify an already existing world then no, when changing the world generation it only affects new chunks and older chunks that are already generated will not be updated

[jagged crag]

Hi, just curious, did you find the root cause for this?

[fair merlin]

(You don't want to be running 1.21.4)

[ivory ruin]

Check your rx/tx

[fluid fjord]

How are you supposed to enable Multitask (the ability to break blocks while eating and so on) if it’s blocked by the core? I don’t get it.

[livid crag]

I dont believe eating while breaking block is possible in Vanilla Minecraft?

are you using cheat?

[fluid fjord]

Yep

[livid crag]

I guess if you want that, you can use Vanilla or Fabric server core

[fluid fjord]

Folia would be better as a core, but damn, without unlocking MultiTask it’s way harder to play PvP

[fluid fjord]

Currently, Folia is the most popular core for anarchy servers, but Multitask is patched on it

[livid crag]

ok I understand that

[fluid fjord]

Is there any way to make it work?

[livid crag]

idk I dont like cheat in game either

so it not working is great.

[sudden tusk]

If you're running folia on an anarchy server I assume you have a dedicated developer working for you, or you're probably in for a world of hurt 😆

[elfin anchor]

Hello. server core minecraft folia primarily use either cores or threads?
Is this server specification sufficient? Approximately $50 USD. For SMP 50-70Player

[inner swift]

That's an ancient, 13 year old CPU, very weak for Minecraft in general

[elfin anchor]

Whatever, VM. I'm using a shared CPU spec, and a CPU from decades ago too. 😥

[livid crag]

Hardware you shown and the budget you have is simply not enough to achieve the player count you wants.

[elfin anchor]

So, approximately how many specs would I need? I've seen Thai players using specs like this and comfortably running 40-50 players.

[livid crag]

yes with the proper amount of gameplay nerf, you can do it on Paper without issue.

It's not about the spec you want, it's your budget.

Rent with a host speicalized with Minecraft hosting and see what $50 can bring you, mainly looking at CPUs the later/newer one the better

You being in SEA means you will be paying a huge premium for hosting so also take that into account.

[elfin anchor]

Okays

ApexHosting Shered Cpu ?

[oblique dragon]

yes

[fair merlin]

For 50 players you don’t really need Folia.

[oblique dragon]

Use dedicated hosting.

[fair merlin]

A good Minecraft host should be able to run that with adjustments on Paper, depending on the tier.

[frail pelican]

I Know that in my region (Eastern Washington) there are people willing to sell server time for cheap, (50/50 small scale hosts and personal hosts) Making friends with a homelabber (with a public IP) is also solid option

[elfin anchor]

I'll try to find friendship there. Thanks for the advice.

[grizzled prairie]

Is it Ok to run folia on 16 VCPU ARM?
And it will be fine if I ran it on 12 vcpu, but EPYC?

[fair merlin]

I mean it's probably going to run like crap.

You generally want dedicated non-ARM high end CPU hardware.

[grizzled prairie]

Ok thank you

[wanton gale]

Question, would there be any possibility to enable/allow end portal gravity block duping with Folia? I tested it earlier and doesn't seem to work, is this because it removes entities that are off-region? If so, is there a way to fix this? I saw a Plugin called GravityControl but its sadly not being maintainted anymore.

[wanton gale]

Please @ me if someone replies, don't check this Discord a lot

[cosmic pawn]

You can probably achieve this

The tests that have been done are all on insane hardware and do hundreds of players

I don’t think much testing has been done on mid to low tier hardware

Actually on a shared CPU idk

If you had the whole machine then you would be able to reach 50/70 players

[cosmic pawn]

I don’t entirely agree. Because folia’s purpose isn’t strictly to “have a lot of players”, but rather to distribute the load of the server across multiple threads

So if you have a shit cpu but it has a lot of cores, it might be a good idea to use folia even if it’s for 50/70 players

[fair merlin]

Folia still wants a high clock speed.

Just like Paper.

If your CPU is garbage but you have a lot of cores it probably isn't going to work very well.

[cosmic pawn]

Like you mean it wants single-threaded performance?

[cosmic pawn]

Do you know this

[fair merlin]

Yes, it wants high single core performance.

You can spread out the load across other cores but if your cores themselves are struggling you're going to have a bad time.

Folia isn't designed to make use of old crappy hardware, it's designed for higher end CPUs.

To take advantage of multiple cores and high clock speeds.

[cosmic pawn]

Because the guy said that in the communities he’s a part of (I assume in SEA) they run folia on that sort of hardware (I assume because there isn’t as easy access to latest hardware for cheap)

[fair merlin]

But again, Folia isn't really designed to run on cheap hardware.

People are welcome to do whatever they want, but that's not really the intent or aim.

So you're probably going to struggle more than you otherwise would.

Either way, this is a help channel, so spending a bunch of time speculating about theoretical CPUs isn't particularly helpful.

[cosmic pawn]

Has this been tested. That sounds like pretty low-level stuff if true. I wasn’t aware that Paper is coded that low-level

[cosmic pawn]

I’m just telling the guy that he should try it if that’s what others are telling him. Because I remember the “common wisdom” was that you shouldn’t run folia if you have less than 16 cores, and I’ve tested it and it works fine with 8

[fair merlin]

It "works fine" with 8 until you start pushing it hard. It'll turn on and run with low player counts on a so-so CPU. But Paper will probably be faster once you start pushing it hard.

At the end of the day "try it and see" applies to most things.

[cosmic pawn]

Agreed

[elfin anchor]

I found a dedicated server that doesn't have an ancient CPU; its specs are from 7-8 years ago. It might be sufficient. Adding a few more dollars won't hurt.

[fair merlin]

It's really hard to say. It's going to depend entirely on the CPU and the overall machine.

[finite hinge]

Think of each region like a Paper server. If you run on a 15 year old CPU that region can probably handle like 5-10 players if they don't have big farms or machines. If you manage to split people up like that it might work but considering the plugin compatibility issues and removed functionality it would be much easier to just run a Paper server on newer hardware.

As far as running on fewer cores in theory Folia could be better than Paper with as few as 2 cores but only in extremely specific contexts. It'll also require you to override the default settings for IO threads, region threads, etc

The "needs a modern CPU with high single threaded performance" and "needs 16 cores" are basically the recommended settings, for anything less than that whether it works for you will depend on your specific hardware, your server setup, and how much you know how to tune things

[wanton gale]

@fair merlin

[fair merlin]

Please don’t ping staff. I don’t have an answer for you. I don’t pay attention to dupes.

[wanton gale]

So thats it? Just a subtle fuck you and no option to fix anything lol?

[real tendon]

I don't entirely think this is in the plans of SpottedLeaf to add to Folia, sorry man

Folia doesnt support it due to portal/teleport rewrites

[wanton gale]

Its been a vanilla mechanic for over a decade

[real tendon]

^^

[wanton gale]

Seems weird to take that out

Well there was a plugin that made it work

On folia too

[real tendon]

Its not that it was "taken out"

[wanton gale]

So its possible

[real tendon]

It was just not implemented in the teleport/portal rewrite

Most likely for safety reasons region-threading wise

[wanton gale]

Seems like a very short sighted reaction to a game mechanic but okay

[real tendon]

If SpottedLeaf didn't implement it, its probably because of some roadblock or limitation of the region-threading implementation

It may be on his TODO to fix

Nobody knows

[wanton gale]

Paper has experimental config options for similar things

Would be cool if this could be one for Folia

[wanton gale]

Fair enough I guess

[real tendon]

Folia fully rewrites the teleport and portal logic tho, which is the main reason

[wanton gale]

Fair but again, a plugin dev made it work. So the logic is already there

[real tendon]

Yea I agree, would be interesting to see implemented into Folia, just ATM it isn't supported for some reason, one of which isn't entirely known to the public, but probably some reason

[wanton gale]

Ive searched through some similar problems regarding item dupes and it seems theyre just against such mechanics

I wouldnt classify these features with regular item dupes tho

[real tendon]

Generally I think SpottedLeaf would implement it if it was practical/safe in the region-threading implementation, maybe it was an oversight during the rewrite, no idea, the reasons are unknown

[wanton gale]

Two entirely different things imo

[real tendon]

Its not something that we know really

[wanton gale]

I guess ill make an FR on Github

[real tendon]

We just know its not supported for some unknown reason

Apologies I cant offer more assistance than that

[wanton gale]

Would be nice to atleast get clear reasoning/response as to why

[real tendon]

Oh yea I agree fs

[wanton gale]

No worries at all, appreciate your insights 🙂

[real tendon]

Yea ofc man, ping me if u got anymore questions and I will be happy to help out with whatever

[wanton gale]

Will remember! Thanks

[barren adder]

😭

[timber igloo]

if i had to guess, that bug is inherently patched by the way folia operates to prevent other dupes. to bring the dupe back would be to 'simulate' the behaviour caused by a bug which is just.. mehh. folias goal was never full vanilla parity, and im very doubtful you will get this into folia itsself

[viral stone]

The entire reason those sorts of bugs work is due to an oversight in the flow of some logic

when you do the teleport async that logic is no longer in the flow required to induce the duplication

you would need to go out of your way to explictly restore the dupe, which is not something that will be invested into

[obtuse cobalt]

Anyone know why these handlers never gets called? It is already registered but these events never gets called

[teal fox]

Folia doesn't support PlayerRespawnEvent APIs.

Supposedly #folia-dev message works though.

[obtuse cobalt]

thanks

[wheat wigeon]

2 join without leave?

[wheat wigeon]

on Folia 1.21.8

[daring nimbus]

pretty outdated version, especially for something experimental like Folia

[hard junco]

can world changes be tracked on folia? cuz world change event doesnt work is theere a weird work around similar to respawn event?

[glossy narwhal]

Guys do you know any monitoring plugin for Graphana
Couldn't compile https://github.com/ndsmc/unified_metrics-folia, and https://github.com/sladkoff/minecraft-prometheus-exporter lacks many features

[timber igloo]

track every players world once per second/tick and if it changes, run your code

[chilly meteor]

hey guys, I'm running folia server with 100+ players, but with a very low tps
I have 16 core of Intel Gold 6144
Total ram for the folia server is 16gb.

How to resolve this problem? I saw some people have thousand % in utilisation, how to achieve that. Thanks

[inner swift]

It's possible to increase the amount of tick threads in the paper global config

[chilly meteor]

chunk-system:
io-threads: -1
worker-threads: -1

threaded-regions:
grid-exponent: 4
scheduler: EDF
threads: -1

these one?

but I think currently it's use all the possible core. as btop show all core is used.

i'm just curios on what recommendation hardware for running few hundred players

since folia recommendation at least 16 core, I have achieve it, but still kinda lag

[inner swift]

Folia recommends 16 physical cores, you have 8 of these

The other 8 you have are SMT cores

[chilly meteor]

Wait how do you know this, sorry just ask since my hosting provider said that this is 16 core. And I also saw 16 core inbtop?

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @chilly meteor: https://pastes.dev/gWDuOnUQLH

[chilly meteor]

here's the lscpu

[chilly meteor]

what's your suggestion. Ryzen?

I used to always use ryzen, but since folia can do multi threading I decide to use something cheaper

it's a little old but still consider as high performance right, at least base clock is mid

[magic orchid]

Xeon is super bad for Folia.
Folia has the same speed requirement as paper, it can just use more of it.
And yes, ryzen is reccomended.
Folia is targeted at higher end hardware

[chilly meteor]

understood, my question is, it's still usable right? I kinda stuck at it for at least the next 3 month so, If I upgrade more cpu core, it will get better right?

[magic orchid]

having more cores will help you.
right now you only have 2 tick threads meaning that your current setup is running 12 regions per thread (24 / 2) in this screenshot.
(100% = 1 thread, 200% = 2 threads, 500% = 5 threads and so on)

but keep in mind that only 2 of these threads are actually ticks, so all the other threads in your btop screenshot are under heavy use by other stuff.
so it might be that the "other stuff" can slow you down even if you had 500 tick threads

im saying this because you have 2 threads doing the ticking but in total you have 4 threads that are at their limit in btop.
so there is something else other than just ticking regions that is taking lots of cpu (single core performance) and might bottleneck

[chilly meteor]

I think I know what's the other 2 threads is

I use ray tracing anti xray

I gave it 2 thread

[chilly meteor]

so I think it's pretty good since it not something could break the game and not something else unexpectedly taking performance

[chilly meteor]

should I manually increase the tick threads?

I'm planning to add 12 more cores into the server

and I want at least 6 core to handle tick threads

[magic orchid]

please make sure you are actually adding physical cores and not just threads.
most CPUs have something like hyper-threading which splits eacht physical core into 2 logical cores (threads).
so if you want to add 6 cores to folia, you need to add 12 actual CPU cores

[magic orchid]

that might be very demanding for your hardware, this could cause your TPS to drop

i personaly think the build-in anti xray is good enough

[chilly meteor]

thanks I'll take a look

[chilly meteor]

nah sadly it's not good enough, very easy to bypass, even with ray tracing anti xray they still able to bypass, just less

the worst thing is they do chestESP to find other player base which need to be 100% prevent

[magic orchid]

cant really help you apart from saying "you need a faster cpu"

[timber igloo]

Look into donutsmp-style anti esps

[old imp]

Which one are you using, mine or the other one? If you limit the amount of ray traced blocks to those that are most important for your server's economy (i.e. not ray tracing blocks like coal ore), it shouldn't have too much of an impact on performance at all. Feel free to send me your config via DM. Maybe I can help you.

[north light]

does anyone know why is sandduping not working on folia?

allow-unsafe-end-portal-teleportation: is set to true

[viral stone]

Folia replaces the teleporation logic in order to do folia stuff

[north light]

and is there a way to fix this? or to enable sandduping?

[lofty magnet]

just use a plugin to re-add it tbh

[viral stone]

I mean, you would need to explictly go out of your way to dupe the sand, the behavior that induced the duplication is not applicable to the requirements of how folia handles stuff like teleporting

[austere moss]

hi im the dev of the server where the bug with the sand duper is appearing and i already modified the version of folia so certain bugs are fixxed would you know a way to fix this one?

[viral stone]

find the case in which you want an extra sand block item to appear and spawn an extra sand block item

[austere moss]

smart idea

and when were already at it i changed the start attributes of the happy ghast it shows up in /attribute but its obviously not changed

[viral stone]

depends on the attributes, but if you change an attribute default the client isn't going to see it

[austere moss]

no like the flying speed it says its base value is 0.1d but it moves like 0.05d

wenn i do base set 0.1 it works

[viral stone]

Because the defaults are not synced to the client

[austere moss]

ohh ye i get it

cause the client simulates the flying when you're on it

[north light]

why is it not possible to place anvils facing north/east?

[brave shoal]

Which setting can I change to improve performance? Currently we have about 45 players with 64 GB RAM and the TPS is really low.

[fair merlin]

Send a spark report - it'll show the system health and folks can advise from there

[brave shoal]

Is there another way to do it? We don’t have Spark installed right now, and restarting is difficult at the moment.

[fair merlin]

Nope, you'd have to install spark

Which you'll want installed anyway.

[viral stone]

I mean, there is no magical performance fixes

you need to understand what you're actually trying to fix to fix it

looking at the TPS metrics I guess would be a start

[stable gust]

[21:57:15 INFO]: Server Health Report

• Online Players: 35
• Total regions: 4
• Utilisation: 99.9% / 100.0%
• Load rate: 48.53, Gen rate: 8.47
• Lowest Region TPS: 6.81
• Median Region TPS: 6.84
• Highest Region TPS: 6.84
  Highest 3 utilisation regions
• Region around block [w:'world',-1577,80,-601]:
  80.9% util at 118.56 MSPT at 6.81 TPS
  Chunks: 24,792 Players: 32 Entities: 5,132
• Region around block [w:'world',-2985,80,-8297]:
  8.9% util at 12.96 MSPT at 6.84 TPS
  Chunks: 1,776 Players: 1 Entities: 670
• Region around block [w:'world_nether',-633,80,7]:
  5.2% util at 7.60 MSPT at 6.84 TPS
  Chunks: 1,480 Players: 1 Entities: 336

[daring nimbus]

What CPU are you using?

[viral stone]

I mean, you have 1 region thread, and basically everybody inside of 1 region

[stable gust]

Ryzen 9 with 8 Cores

[daring nimbus]

suboptimal for Folia tbh

Also don't the 9s all have at least 12 cores?

because if thats shared, well, yeah

[stable gust]

its a vserver

[daring nimbus]

you want powerful, high-end hardware that is not shared for Folia. a vServer is not that

[stable gust]

https://spark.lucko.me/ps7PQhBEr0

[stable gust]

is there anything that i can do to fix this without buying a new server

[daring nimbus]

given all your players are in just one region anyway, Paper likely is faster here

but 5000 entities is generally a lot, so I would look into reducing that

a simulation-distance of 16 is usually a pretty bad idea too. the default of 10 is generally considered too high if you care about performance

[stable gust]

thx i will change that

[stable gust]

do you have a suggestion to decrease the amount

[livid crag]

Follow this and also limit player breedable mobs

[daring nimbus]

And if your players always stick together like this, really consider using Paper instead. Folia has some overheads which will make it significantly slower than Paper if players are not spread out

[grizzled prairie]

Will be this dedicated server fine for Folia?

[magic orchid]

No, you want at least 16 cores

[grizzled prairie]

14 vs 16 cores. I think it’s not big problem?

[magic orchid]

And also those should be "performance" cores, so you should be getting a cpu with 16 cores and 32 threads at least

[magic orchid]

You also got some efficiency cores in that cpu, that increases the difference

Folia is targeting high end CPUs both in terms of core count and single core performance

An i5 just doesnt match that

[grizzled prairie]

Soo have you some recommendations? Which hosting provider?

[magic orchid]

I dont know abkut providers but most people go with a ryzen CPU

Also just a note: 64GB of RAM is overkill for a minecraft server

[modest kestrel]

its fine, it doesnt necessarily hit the folia recommended limit

unless you have 100+ players, should be fine

[magic orchid]

I would not get a new server below the 16 cores.
The docs state 16, so getting something new with less is not great for scalability.
https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq/#what-hardware-will-folia-run-best-on

[mild fog]

Too little cores/threads and too much ram, 32 gb MAX, and 32 threads minium

[elfin anchor]

Hi, are Spark plugins compatible with Folia? Why can't I use them?

[magic orchid]

you have to use a special version of spark found here
https://ci.lucko.me/job/spark-extra-platforms/

[inner swift]

For the sake of completeness, Folia recommends at least 16 physical, strong ("performance") cores. That particular CPU has only 6 performance cores, the rest are SMT cores or E cores

[golden zinc]

how many cores of a 7950x3d do i need to run atleast 75 players smp and preferably upgradable

[inner swift]

That's doable with Paper

[modest kestrel]

on 1.21.11 not really

[golden zinc]

u sure gng? cause i wanna make sure i dont have to change everything once i get more players like 100-200

[modest kestrel]

do you have vanilla spawn rates and other mechanics or lower?

[golden zinc]

wdym

it will be a smp

with plugins

[modest kestrel]

did you nerf mob spawns or mob cap

[golden zinc]

similiar to donut

[modest kestrel]

from the default config

[golden zinc]

idk do i need to?

[modest kestrel]

will you be running folia?

[golden zinc]

im not sure cause start will have 75ish players and i dont want to add folia later on when i reach 100-200

[modest kestrel]

did you try folia before?

because if you dont even know if you need to change configs, it seems like you have no experience with folia

and if you have no experience with folia, you might be in for a lot of trouble when trying to make plugins work

[golden zinc]

i have 0 experience with folia but tons with paper

but i like learning tho

[modest kestrel]

experience with paper as a dev or as a server owner

[golden zinc]

server owner

im not a plugin dev sadly

but i work alot with plugins and stuff

[modest kestrel]

if you are a server owner and are using public plugins on paper, switching to Folia will not be easy

[golden zinc]

yep but many plugins support folia

[modest kestrel]

okay, well, if you truly want to switch to Folia, then you will need at least 16 threads, official documentation recommends 32 threads, but in my own experience, thats a bit much, however, you might have to turn down mob cap and spawn rates

[golden zinc]

threads or cores

[modest kestrel]

threads

official documentation recommends 16 cores (32 threads), but up to 200 with lower settings, you can survive even with fewer threads

[grizzled prairie]

Can someone recommend me hosting provider for Folia? I’m want SMP with plugins that will reach 100-150 players (I’m gonna lower tick rates and spawn rates, etc) (players from Europe)

[inner swift]

OVH, Hetzner

[grizzled prairie]

Soo is that good?

[inner swift]

Where's that from?

[grizzled prairie]

Hetzner

[hardy valve]

Is there a guide or reference for optimizing chunk generation and CPU selection for folia? I don't want to pregenerate

Has anyone considered shifting chunk generation to cuda?

[livid crag]

No and no. If you cant pregen, you ae left to suffer

[hardy valve]

I don't like suffering, it sounds painful. Is there a technical reason I'm missing for why chunk generation is in the state it's in? GPU's can do floating point math and perlin noise orders of magnitude faster than CPUs.

[livid crag]

Your server from host don’t generally come with a gpu

But Minecraft isnt made to use gpu for chunk generation.

[hardy valve]

Host? I understand the confusion now. I don't host. I have a 42u rack, a juniper MX240, multihomed BGP, all the goodness. I am considering scratch building a server.

Is this a situation where we basically have to rely on bukkit and can't simply generate chunks elsewhere?

(I think I'm kind of feeling around "where does chunk generation happen today and why can't we move it elsewhere?")

[hardy valve]

I'm kind of looking at that, but it looks like Folia has a multi-threaded scheduler which calls bukkit to have minecraft-server generate the chunk. So your first answer to a large extent is correct because we're always beholden to minecraft-server's terrible performance.

[hardy valve]

this might not be impossible. It looks like Paper and Spigot both patch server.jar locally (since modified server.jar cannot be distributed)

[viral stone]

Most servers don’t have GPUs and GPUs work best on highly parellizable work tasks such as noise generation but maybe not actually placing structure into the world

The thing is that when most servers don’t have GPUs, there is very little interest in us maintaining such a thing; but, there have been many projects that have done it as tech demos over the years, idk any who has actually bothered shipping something long term though

[hardy valve]

I suspect that servers are going to start getting GPU's (though perhaps not the cheap colo servers). APU's are kind of everywhere at this point, and we're going to start seeing every processor ship with some GPU and NPU capacity on it

because AI :/

We've also pretty much hit the wall as far as single-threaded performance goes.

[viral stone]

Servers don’t need GPUs though, at least not at the capability that putting it in a CPU would offer you, you don’t have the footprint for that vs just slapping an NPU in there

[hardy valve]

There's also a huge number of prebuilt used servers with N100's already in them, or N100's that can be had for $249 as part of the build. So if you're colo'ing I think there's value. If you aren't then you probably won't get a GPU

[sudden tusk]

A few misconceptions I'm feeling here:

• Chunkgen isn't singlethreaded.
• Paper patching the server doesn't change the ability to add a cuda patch.
• Bukkit died in 2014.

[hardy valve]

mbax: These may be all true, I'm just starting to look at this issue this evening. Looking at it though, plan B (stick 128 slow cores in a server) also doesn't seem like a solution. I come at this as a 2b2t player which runs Folia and chunkgen is a nightmare. Admittedly 2b2t has it's own issues

that is another consideration

When I finally quit 2b2t Spawn TPS was ~5-7

[finite hinge]

I feel like I should point out I don't think MC chunk generation would run very well on GPUs either

If you just pick the buzzwords from it some or all of them are capable of running on a GPU and can even do so quite well but you'd need to completely redesign the system and lose vanilla worldgen to actually do it

Like you'd need to generate multiple chunks at once with a simpler scheme, just being able to generate noise quickly is not really that helpful

I've toyed with that in the past for MC-like worldgen but that was 2014 and compute shaders basically didn't exist

SIMD has similar problems, although it isn't as wide so you could probably keep things to a chunk at a time

MC worldgen might be based on noise but it doesn't sample it at full resolution, it's something like 1/8 so there isn't as much noise as you'd expect

Also perlin noise kind of sucks 😛

You'd at least want "improved" perlin noise + surflets but I think MC uses simplex?

[hardy valve]

I'm on MacOS playing with Vulcan shaders right now. Well I'm having Claude do it because I'm curious as to if it is even feasible on a garbage in-garbage out basis

[paper siren]

perlin noise is not the limiting factor of the current chunk generator afaik

If you want to write a chunk generator from scratch that is designed for gpus, that might work, but porting vanilla chunk gen to gpus is rather a nightmare

[elfin anchor]

This should be enough.
For Server me

⚙️ New Host Server Specs
CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X (3.4 –
4.9 GHz)
16 Cores / 32 Threads
L3 Cache: 64MB
RAM: DDR4 (Non-ECC)
Storage: NVMe RAID, maximum speed ~4,000 MB/s

💻 Upgrading VPS Specs (Equivalent to 80-90% Dedicated Server)
8 vCPUs (Non-shared / Individual machines 3.4 ~ 4.9 GHz)
RAM 15 GB DDR4
Storage 100 GB (NVMe)
1 Public IP
Network 1Gbps Unlimited

💻 Current VPS Specs (Typical VPS)
6 vCPUs (Shared 2.0Ghz)
RAM 12 GB DDR3
Storage 100 GB (HDD)
1 Public IP
Network 1Gbps Unlimited

[fair merlin]

For Folia you really don’t want a VPS.

[elfin anchor]

If that's a typical VPS, that is.

[paper siren]

I mean do whatever you want, but don’t be surprised if things don’t work as you expect if you ignore the people here

[elfin anchor]

I'm interested in the advice. Okay, I was wrong. Anyway, a dedicated server with newer CPUs is clearly better.

I have another question. Does Luckperm not work in Folia?

[silk path]

How much monthly?

[vapid lynx]

Hi guys. I got following problem. MY server is capable of 1gbit/s and has a decent CPU. It uses only 40% cpu, tho the servers connection to some players(not all) are kinda messed up, the connection looks like following: (image). Now I am trying to figure out why some players (image2) are having connection issues (not on their side) and why some do not. Cause I think this is clearly not an issue of the hardware/setup

[viral stone]

latency is a time thing, could be network conditions between you and them, a bad route, plugins stalling the pipeline

You would need to figure out a general list of causes and how to target them

[vapid lynx]

Yeah tho, where do I search? like what kind of things can cause this?

Because also some players DO have multiple accounts on the server which run on the same computer. 1 acc has the issue, the other account not. Which is kinda weird

[viral stone]

I mean, latency isn't a perfect metric, things like prioritisation is a small factor too

I can't really advise on where to start, debugging this sorta thing is hard in general, even more of a headache on a platform like folia

generally, could be software, could be network, I would first generally be checking the network with typical tools like mtr

otherwise, you'd need to figure out looking into what is going on in the netty pipeline, latency is easily biased if something is being spiky, the nature of how netty works means that if you've got something running on there could impact a bunch of people

pretty hard to say, and non-trivial to diagnose

[kind grail]

Not on their side means they get good connection if they reconnect? or it's always bad on those specific accounts? Even after restart on an empty server?

[vapid lynx]

its just randomly. Like they all got a good connection and out of the sudden, the connecting of random players (not even the same ones) have bad ping for a few minutes

[vapid lynx]

I mean to be fair. The PPS is pretty high, which seems unreasonable?!

[kind grail]

80 Mbit/s for 29 players is more than a lot yes

but you probably have something else running?

[vapid lynx]

In which terms? Anything else than a plugin, no

[kind grail]

I mean on a server itself. It shows pps on a network interface, surely your folia server can't have 10 MB/s?? unless I miss something, this is extremely high usage

[vapid lynx]

I mean not sure, but no. Only DB and website runs on this, and does the spark healthreport include other networking than the server itself (i dont think so)?!

[kind grail]

Spark reads /proc/net/dev output and calculates from that. You can install nethogs and just run it to see what's eating your server bandwidth in realtime. Is it a dedicated server or VPS? Just to let you know, my SMP server currently has 20 players online and network usage is 300 - 500 KB/s (your shows 10 MB)

[vapid lynx]

Dedi but we use a VPS as a DDOS protection. But still both have 1Gbit/s

[kind grail]

Maybe you indeed hit 10 MB/s because all players were actively loading chunks or doing something... huge? idk but probably worth looking at to confirm it's indeed Folia who gets all that network activity.

[vapid lynx]

So we just need to check with nethogs?

Or how are we gonna debug this?

[kind grail]

Yes I suggest to run nethogs to see which process is actually gets that much network activity. If it's Folia, then well, you know it's indeed Folia with 115K pps. Just to make sure nothing else on your dedicated server is doing something weird.

[vapid lynx]

Ok sure. Thank you

[vapid lynx]

well nethogs only shows 2 things and the one with high traffic is Unkown tcp..oooof

[kind grail]

Not java process that runs folia?

[vapid lynx]

docker container

[kind grail]

well if you run folia in docker then ok

[vapid lynx]

Wait

can entities cause massive pps?

like almost 3k bees?!

Cause we suddenly got 800mbit/s out of nowhere

maybe netty?

idk

[bold osprey]

Yes, each entity is generating several packets per tick. Including state changes and move packets

[viral stone]

I mean, mojangs network stack does not deal well with high PPS, you can easily down a client out spamming them with particles, etc

Bearing in mind that spawning an entity is 2 packets, and then you've got the fact that you're going to now be sending movement packets for as long as people are in range of those entities

[vapid lynx]

Yeah like we got over 200000pps maybe sometimes even more

[slow grail]

Beyond a 16 physical core ryzen processor, what CPU’s are feasible with more cores considering a world with players very well spread apart?

Because they need to be relatively fast cores ideally

[viral stone]

I mean,a t the end of the day, each region is a mini server, with some amount of overhead

really is a case of balancing how many threads you have for ticking regions with how much a region is able to scale; stuff like the web server CPUs are attractive if you only have a few people in a region, but, it's generally a case of trying to find a balance between # of regions and how big a region can be

[slow grail]

So I should change the size of regions?

By manipulating the grid exponent?

[viral stone]

size of a region is determined by how close your players are to one another

the exponent can only do so much

[slow grail]

I was just wondering bc my server has extremely far spread apart people

And ofc my other option is sharding of some kind

[viral stone]

if you have people split so far apart that people are mostly in their own regions then aiming for a CPU with more threads is probably better than something with raw single core perf

[slow grail]

Yeah I have 50 players online rn and 38 regions

[viral stone]

ofc, single core perf still has a factor here

[slow grail]

Yeah thats why i was wondering

[primal oyster]

Heck no

That cannot be 3k bees

You can optimize the way paper sends packet to your proxy tho.

[cosmic pawn]

Can anyone illuminate what might be happening in this bug? My server is running Folia
https://tickettool.xyz/transcript/v1/1099757122029375599/1468543753823322308/transcript-bug-0831-klaasa.html/69846773/698315f3/addb616d001636d1192963bddf65015608d8ab35fd20d312a3d45d5169f1cd23

[primal oyster]

are you able to explain without making us open that link 😉

[cosmic pawn]

Not really. It's just a transcript of a ticket from my discord server

[primal oyster]

ok

[timber igloo]

I doubt anyone here has the interest to sign up for some ticket tool to read a transcript that contains, at best, a very vague description of an issue

[slow grail]

I certainly don’t

[slow grail]

Can you copy the ticket contents into a text file and send it or smth, so we can just see it in discord

[cosmic pawn]

Oh it makes you sign in? My bad. I thought it would just show you

I'll just send it as screenshots.
This is the link of the video he sent
https://medal.tv/games/minecraft/clips/m2SXxI00klpphK4F9?invite=cr-MSxwM2IsNDY5ODUzMjYz

[hardy valve]

@viral stone you were correct about GPU acceleration, the more time consuming parts of chunk generation cannot be significantly accelerated. The best possible benefit would be about a 40% improvement in chunk generation, and that is not worth it. I'm glad I tried something that profiled chunk generation first.

[umbral vault]

Chunk generation with gpu only will help you with fast, the best solution is pregen for now in servers. You can search project bablyon, which is went 10+ years of developing slowly. Good luck on integrating CUDA and Logic cores of GPU focused on worldgen.

Yeah, you can use C2ME build but it is still may more far away than you expected, at least situation is this.

You may think: "what happens if i use SIMD on noisegen?" Yeah you can use it, it may increase but there is a limit, there is a law that limiting us (amdahl's law).

[viral stone]

iirc the big issue really is that chunk gen is task dependency constrainted

[umbral vault]

Yeah...

[umbral vault]

(i cant really write the formula there so thats why used ai lmao)

[viral stone]

speeding up the lower level of noise generation can help a bunch with ramping up a bit, and in earlier versions that bit was the part that often provided a good bunch of the performance noise, but that isn't entirely great now

[umbral vault]

also there is not magic wand

that will increase the cps

efficiency and power is the terms just talking in here

(also math 🤣)

[hardy valve]

@umbral vault only because you have not come up with a magic wand. I mean what have you been doing with your life? 😂

[umbral vault]

working on math fully.

if there was a magic wand it should be hardware acceleration is a new invention on the side.

[fair merlin]

(Reminder that side conversation should go into #general , not help channels)

[cosmic pawn]

Didn't even know people could generate chunks with GPU acceleration

[unborn pulsar]

is there a issue with mobs spawning with folia. Im running a server with folia and mobs arnt spawning at all after some uptime
I have the difficulty set to normal.
Gamerule spawn_mobs is true

[livid crag]

Nothing we've heard

Try run the following command
/paper playermobcaps and show the output @unborn pulsar

and also provide a spark report

[unborn pulsar]

I had switch to paper to try and isolate the issue.
Here is my report
https://spark.lucko.me/AOOmG894FU

[inner swift]

Are you in spectator mode by any chance?

[unborn pulsar]

NO

sorry caps

[livid crag]

try running /difficulty hard as a player in game.

Also may wanna revert some of your setting back to default such as simulation distance to 10

[unborn pulsar]

That can cause spawning issues?

[livid crag]

the difficulty is probably why

and having simulation distance higher than 10 provide literally zero benefit. as no mob will exist past 128 blocks due to hard despawn range.

[unborn pulsar]

that seemed to fix it. but its usually fixed templary after a server restart

[livid crag]

also your online-mode is also turned to false, that should be set to true.

[unborn pulsar]

im using velocity with geyser thats why its false

[livid crag]

You also want floodgate on the backend

and geyser

so you get skin info

[livid crag]

look to see if your panel is overriding stuff, this is not normal behavior.

[unborn pulsar]

So i need geyser and floodgate plugins on the proxy and the backend?

[livid crag]

oh just floodgate

[unborn pulsar]

ok good.

[livid crag]

look at their wiki for setup, I didnt pay too much attention, I just follow it and it works

[unborn pulsar]

I think i had on the backend at one point then removed it for some reason.

[elfin anchor]

40$/per mouth

VPS 40$ ~ 100$ per month

[umbral vault]

i would go with dedicated cores with these money

there is no point if ur budget is this

for vps

[torpid citrus]

hello good luck

[unborn pulsar]

Hey Im still having an issue with mobs not spawning in my server. Idk if this is a folia, paper, or vanilla issue.
Here is my spark report
https://spark.lucko.me/ThcZggrwZS

I have tried everything. I have game spawn_mobs set to true. Difficulty is on hard.

it seems to be after 10 min of uptime hostile mobs refuse to spawn

[unborn pulsar]

i think i might of fixed by deleting paper-world-defaults file in ./config/

[fair merlin]

If you're getting weird behavior like that, that's a good place to start. Backup the config and then let Paper/Folia generate a new one.

[fair merlin]

Check this guide for settings to tweak and what they'd do / along with some suggested values.

Some other guides or random stuff online might tell you to make a change that can hose stuff like mob spawns/etc.

[unborn pulsar]

so far its been good.👍 That seemed to fix it. But it ill know with time

[livid crag]

You never follow up on /difficulty changes I requested.

[unborn pulsar]

my bad. I did run /difficulty hard.

[stuck narwhal]

will there ever be a fix for datapacks for folia?

[finite hinge]

Probably not, some commands seem basically impossible to reimplement and the rest aren't possible to maintain vanilla compatibility with (mainly around reporting their completion success/failure) which means a lot of datapack function stuff and command blocks will just not work

[slow island]

Is there any fix for this issue https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/436 ? I have several players effectively banned from joining the serrver as it just times them out when they try to connect

[unborn pulsar]

@livid crag I wont bother you any more, but I think this has more to do with the changes made 1.21.11 and not folia (or paper). I'm sorry for bothering you.

[livid crag]

It’s ok. Thank you for the followup. @unborn pulsar

[icy umbra]

What is the maximum number of players that can be supported on a Folia instance? I'm not going to read any documentation or anything else. I just want a number with approximate hardware specifications. We're facing the problem that we can't estimate whether the Paper servers will crash with a certain number of players, and with Paper, after 250 players, everything just lags, and I don't want that. What hardware would I need for approximately how many players?

Just to be sure it makes sense to have developers reprogram all our systems so that we can work with more slots and possibly fewer servers.

[fair merlin]

Saying "I'm not going to read any documentation" isn't really a good place to start off when asking for help.

There is no hard number. Just like there is no hard number with Paper.

It depends on a ton of variables.

[icy umbra]

I don't have much time to get into this. I need an answer. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm losing time right now.

[fair merlin]

There is no fixed answer.

You've asked this before and got the same response.

#folia-help message

It's like asking how many people you can fit in a room. How big is the room? How big are the people? Etc etc

This stuff is complicated and doesn't have a very basic answer.

As I'm sure you can realize because you just said you're having trouble estimating how many players your Paper server can hold.

[icy umbra]

Have you ever tried this, and can you tell me exactly what needs to be done to make it work?

[fair merlin]

As for "being rude" - showing up to a free open source project and demanding immediate answers to questions is pretty rude.

[fair merlin]

No, I cannot tell you exactly what needs to be done. It depends on a ton of things. What the players are doing. How far apart they are spread. What the system specs are. What the server type is. What plugins you have.

Etc etc etc

There is no "X CPU and Y RAM == Z players"

It will always vary on setup, server, and configuration.

[frosty token]

I think folia has decent documentation on its use cases. There's a faq and somw good reads

[icy umbra]

So, when in doubt, just buy endless hardware in the hope that it will work?

[frosty token]

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq/

[frosty token]

when in doubt read the docs and make an informed decision

[fair merlin]

It does, yes, but they said they would not read any of that.

[frosty token]

lol

[fair merlin]

You could do that, sure. That seems like a poor decison, though. The smart choice would be to read the documentation and understand the limitation of the system and where you can make choices to change things to increase player count.

Or find someone who knows this and have them help you. (But not in this server, as we are not a marketplace or recruiting server).

[icy umbra]

To what extent is it possible to divide a world into many paper servers, i.e., a regional division, such as

world-100-100 (10,000 x 10,000 blocks)
world-100-102 (10,000 x 10,000 blocks), etc.

Would that be a possible idea for how to keep 6-10,000 players without lag?

[fair merlin]

If you truly have 6,000 or 10,000 players, you need to hire a developer to answer this question.

Is this thing possible? Sure.

But we don't have anything off the shelf that does this.

So you'd need some sort of custom solution.

[icy umbra]

How is that possible, and what's the best way to approach it? Do you have any ideas? I mean, I would probably do it via Docker, Kubernetes, and additionally outsource the Minecraft logic to microservices.

[frosty token]

is this really the place for free labor? You should probably hire

[fair merlin]

Like I said, it would be a custom solution. And certainly out of scope for this particular channel. You could try #general to see if anyone has any thoughts, but ultimately you're probably going to need to find a developer.

[icy umbra]

I have some developers who can implement this technically, but that's no use to me without a concept and without an idea.

[fair merlin]

You'd want to ask them for the concept and/or ideas. Or do some research. Or have them do some research.

As I said, it's out of scope for help in this channel. You could try to start a conversation in the #general channel.

[icy umbra]

Yes, I understand that already.

[lime kiln]

For a Folia vanilla Minecraft server (~200 players, no map pregen), what would be the ideal CPU? Does it need to be dedicated, or can a VPS handle it reliably?

[livid crag]

Dedicated and whatever you can get with the latest gaming cpu

[livid crag]

Also your 200 players have to all be anti social and cannot group up together or you won’t get any benefit from Folia

[hard junco]

is there any updates to the respawnevent? or does it still not get called on 1.21.11

[livid crag]

You were already answered before no?

[hard junco]

nvm i have to just stick with the inventory trick

[cosmic pawn]

They can group together

but like overall be dispersed

but if you have like even 10 players in a region it's fine

[cosmic pawn]

I disagree with what this graphic implies

You can definitely have a server with 15k world diameter benefit from folia

it depends on how many players there are and realistically you wont have a scenario where the whole world is one region unless all the players are dispersed in an unlikely way

[inner swift]

With low player spread

It's clear both in how it's illustrated and labeled

[timber igloo]

Not sure what player counts you're working with but in my experience you end up with 2-3 regions max

Which like can be better than folia but meh

[livid crag]

Benchmark or stat from an empty server is not an indication of anything. Our recommendation is there as a general guidance.

[elfin anchor]

Therefore, it would be more worthwhile to use that money to rent a good dedicated server.

[livid crag]

I dont believe there exist such a machine for only $40 a month that also meets the optimal hardware requirement of Folia.

[timber igloo]

was the name 'folia' chosen because theres a german company named folia that produces, among other things, scissors to cut paper? like you cut paper into multiple pieces?

or coincidence

[inner swift]

It was just a variation of the word "folium", "leaf" in Latin

[teal fox]

Wikitonary clains that folia in latin can mean a sheet of paper.

[livid crag]

(KP is correct) (Lore wise)

[timber igloo]

i see

[lime stag]

Hey with Folia. Does it change any of the vanilla villager mechanics? Like in relation to Iron farms? Been testing with Folia and some of my players larger multi level iron farms don’t seem to work compared to smaller iron farms. Is there anything we need to tweak?

[inner swift]

Multiplayer yield is different from singleplayer

[lime stag]

Sorry what do you mean by that? On paper multiplayer it’s not affected? Unless you directly change the entity rules etc

[inner swift]

Ah, meh, I should've asked in which way they don't work

[lime stag]

Only thing I’ve changed is going from paper to folia. Now the iron farms yield is significantly lower to the point of barely working

[fair merlin]

Depends on what kind of farm you're using. But it should be the same as Paper.

Unless you're using something that relies on portals.

[lime stag]

just these ones
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vXHTtfMVv3A

[lime kiln]

Hey guys, quick questions. do you think any of these dedicated CPUs could handle a vanilla Minecraft world with anti-xray + anticheat plugins enabled (no pre-generation)?

E5-2687W v4
E5-2697 v2
E5-2690 v2
E5-2680
E5-2670 v2

[little grotto]

I've published plugin for changing trades of wandering trader on Folia that I ||(AI)|| created for my server
https://modrinth.com/plugin/wandering-trader-folia

[hexed ice]

you'll probably want a CPU released this decade to run folia on

[lime kiln]

makes sense

do you think it would be really bad with around 200 players? i'm mostly considering older hardware because of budget constraints, so i'm trying to understand if it's just “not ideal” or actually unplayable

[hexed ice]

i'd guess you won't have a good time trying to fit 200 players on any of those cpus with folia, not unless you cripple playability by turning down every single config option

16 cores is also pretty much the recommended minimum

[sturdy apex]

also why no pregeneration

[lime kiln]

its a 1mx1m size world

[sturdy apex]

ye oke that is a bit big, but if everyone starts at 0-0 you might stil want to pregen some chunks

i mean to pregen all of that is only gonna be like 2pb

not thaaattt much

[thin compass]

pretty sure u want an 2696v4

[livid crag]

The correct answer is none of them.

[thin compass]

just an option for him if he want to use xeon

me personally using 7950x/9950x

DonutSMP is using AMD EPYC 4585PX

[calm fable]

is there a console command to flush all writes to disk?

like save-all

[inner swift]

Maybe you're looking for the flush param of that command? /save-all flush

[dim merlin]

Unless that changed recently
This command is still disable

[inner swift]

Oh, this is Folia, my bad

[calm fable]

so im doing an async live sync of the minecraft world files to an RBD.... and i notice the data files do not commit for quite some time

and then i find out the server is not flushing writes to disk and i have no control over that its like a recipe for disaster

[nimble jewel]

hey guys is there a way to create new world through the server? my plugin should generate new arenas for mini games as new worlds instead just regions in the main world.
is there a way to do it with folia?

[fair merlin]

You'll want to read the docs on the missing bits in Folia.

[nimble jewel]

can you share the docs please? the specific section for it. I know its "missing" from folia but is there any replacement for it except region?

[opaque gust]

ist it normal for Folia to use that mutch memory with no players online since the server restart 9h ago?
I wrote a plugin that keeps some areas constantly loaded but when using paper i believe it was wayy less.

[opaque gust]

https://giphy.com/gifs/oh-ooohh-of-course-NcrhM3USM6TABpus85

[jolly glen]

Add --thread * --ignore-sleeping to the profiler flags, --combine-all too if you want, but 45% doesn't seem that much actually

[opaque gust]

does Folia come with spark like paper or do i need to enable it actively on folia or something?

[viral stone]

You would need to grab the plugin

[hexed ice]

https://ci.lucko.me/job/spark-extra-platforms/

[opaque gust]

thx

[opaque gust]

no the cpu usage is not higher than usual. again it could be that i am just underestimating the memory needed to load 1200 chunks. since i had to restart the server to install spark the memory usage has now dropped to 3.4GB when idle. is it possible that something like the garbace collection behaves differently because i assigned the server 64GB memory?

[viral stone]

Memory in java is not that simple

javas allocation is adoptive

[jolly glen]

Honestly, without a profiler it's impossible to tell

No data :/

[calm fable]

could someone shed some light on what would cause this
"Tick region located in world 'world' around chunk '[-271, -258]' has not responded in 10.956287915s"

[20:27:43 ERROR]:       PID: 120 | Suspended: false | Native: false | State: RUNNABLE
[20:27:43 ERROR]:       Stack:
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.level.entity.ChunkEntitySlices$BasicEntityList.indexOf(ChunkEntitySlices.java:446)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.level.entity.ChunkEntitySlices$BasicEntityList.has(ChunkEntitySlices.java:473)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.level.entity.ChunkEntitySlices$EntityCollectionBySection.addEntity(ChunkEntitySlices.java:494)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.level.entity.ChunkEntitySlices.addEntity(ChunkEntitySlices.java:267)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.level.entity.EntityLookup.addEntity(EntityLookup.java:443)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.level.entity.EntityLookup.addRecursivelySafe(EntityLookup.java:350)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.level.entity.EntityLookup.addEntityChunk(EntityLookup.java:384)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.level.entity.EntityLookup.addEntityChunkEntities(EntityLookup.java:342)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.scheduling.NewChunkHolder.loadInEntityChunk(NewChunkHolder.java:124)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.scheduling.ChunkHolderManager.getOrCreateEntityChunk(ChunkHolderManager.java:1157)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               ca.spottedleaf.moonrise.patches.chunk_system.scheduling.task.ChunkFullTask.run(ChunkFullTask.java:112)
[20:27:43 ERROR]:               io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.RegionizedTaskQueue$PrioritisedQueue$ChunkBasedPriorityTask.executeInternal(Regio```

is the chunk corrupt?

this is spamming my console and no one in that area can log in

even restarted the server

[viral stone]

The things loading a chunk

probably overly filled with entities or something

[calm fable]

Good call, i deleted the region/entities for the region and its fine now

poor guy just lost all his base

oh well

[fair sparrow]

Is this chunk corruption?

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @fair sparrow: https://pastes.dev/YhNT86fsCc

[hexed ice]

replace "fork of paper" with "fork of folia" in there

[thin meadow]

why does this happen

do i need to sh to the file location

rpi 5 btw

[timber igloo]

I think the run.sh isnt made for raspbian

just run the file with the usual command java -jar paper.jar

[thin meadow]

really? ok

do I have to manage the ram every startup

I have some settings in the sh file

[magic orchid]

this channel is for Folia help.
in the video it seems like you are using paper, if that is true move to #paper-help please.
if you are trying to run Folia (and for some reason renamed the .jar to paper) just dont.
a raspberry pi 5 is not even powerfull enough for a proper paper server, you will get a very bad experience with running Folia on it.
Folia is designed for high-performance hardware.

[thin meadow]

yeah I forgot I had folia after watching tutorials

I've ran modded minecraft on my rpi 5, it doesn't seem that bad

[magic orchid]

for a small friend group (10 people max) it is fine, but any larger than that it will struggle.
in any case, Folia is not a good choice for such weak hardware and using paper will give you a better experience

[thin meadow]

okay

[small mauve]

I've noticed players become stuck in the void and are unkickable/unkillable when they enter the nether with a boat. It happens randomly and it reminds me of that old region bisection issue back in 1.20

I am on 1.21.11 latest build

Does anyone else have this issue?

[unborn pulsar]

So I'm having a repeating issue, with hostile mobs refusing the spawn. I'll fix it for a while then they will just stop. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm in the waiting room if someone wants to talk.
Im using Pelican (I've checked I don't think anything being overwritten) with
Folia with Velocity

[viral stone]

thing would generally be to check the mob counters and if you're hitting them, if not, generally boils down to looking at the spawn conditions for that stuff and getting into some debugging

[unborn pulsar]

Sorry I haven't tried to debug a server(I have with C++). Is there any pointers.

I know you can enable debugging in config but thats all i know

[viral stone]

I mean, debugging is generally a nightmare given the whole "20 ticks a second and hundreds of spawn attempts every tick if you're not meeting the goals", most of my debugging attempts are generlaly throwing log messages into stuff to work out what is going on

[unborn pulsar]

wdym "stuff"?

This is what Im up against

[viral stone]

I mean, if mobs aren't spawning then you're hitting some condition where they're actually not spawning or something is killing them too fast, it's fairly hard to say much on the surface

There are a few /paper subcommands which should provide information on the state of mob spawn targets

[unborn pulsar]

Im sorry for wasting you're time but, apparently it changed to peaceful. I didn't change it sooo.

Im so sorry that I wasted your time, that should have been the first thing I checked

@viral stone Sorry for wasting your time. I had just assumed the issue was something I had ealier. And forgot to check the difficulty. That was my bad

[viral stone]

it's fine

[wheat wigeon]

I switched from Paper 1.21.7 to Folia 1.21.8 on my server and a couple of my members lost their shulker, which they claimed they never moved.

[dim merlin]

Especially with folia you'd never want to be on an old version

[calm fable]

ok i need someone's help, on my folia server players when traveling through portals, will "fall through the floor" and get stuck, logged in. like they are fully disconnected, no ip traffic at all but the server shows them "online" somehow and i dont know why? it takes a server restart to let them log back in, which is difficult given the number of players. here is a screenshot of my plugins.

[sudden tusk]

As mentioned in paper-help, gonna need a spark report

[calm fable]

on it!

spark doesnt seem to be part of folia

is that a plugin i have to install?

[hexed ice]

https://ci.lucko.me/job/spark-extra-platforms/

[calm fable]

so regardless i have to restart my server and wait for it to happen again

not a problem i will be on it next time

appreciate it!

[little sable]

As an example, Spark standalone as a Java agent works well on Folia

[timber igloo]

I've had this problem as well just not with the reproducibility effect of nether portals, it just happened randomly. Notably we've had atleast 1 report of this here and also in other folia related discord

[glossy narwhal]

Anybody tested the new Folia scheduler?

[cosmic pawn]

having an issue where players on my server can't open a chest if that player's head inhabits the same coords as a button/sign/slab/trapdoor. Seems like a line-of-sight check is going off and concluding the player can't see the chest even though they can. I have no idea where this comes from.

[timber igloo]

can you reproduce that without any plugins? iirc minecraft itsself doesnt do any line of sight checks for container interactions

i.e cheat clients can interact with containers through walls

[modest kestrel]

you must be using some weird anti-esp plugin

[cosmic pawn]

yeah i thought it was from me installing grim. but I uninstalled grim and the issue is still there

[misty heron]

Im wondering how much ram will folia consume if i host 100 players on it?

With pretty much modern hardware

[livid crag]

The amount of player do not have direct relationship on how much RAM the software requires the way you think. When in doubt, start with 10gb then monitor your spark report for potential issues.

[final bronze]

anyone here using folia for 100+ players server?

[livid crag]

Planty, you can join DonutSMP for example. They are the current biggest MC server.

[timber igloo]

yes

[final bronze]

they using folia no way

[final bronze]

can i have the ip

[fair merlin]

There are a bunch of servers running more than 100 players.

[timber igloo]

why

[final bronze]

i just wana see what kinda of plugins they uses

i am new in this

[timber igloo]

we hide our plugin list

[final bronze]

not that way

what hardware are u using?

[timber igloo]

im afraid i dont understand. if you want to know what plugins people use, ask people what plugins they use

[final bronze]

no i meant to see how plugin heavy the servers are

[fair merlin]

You wouldn't be able to see that if the plugins are hidden.

[timber igloo]

ryzen 9 9900X

[fair merlin]

@final bronze Also, we don't support offline mode servers here, as you've been told. If you want assistance on what hardware to use or what plugins you should use, you'll have to do it somewhere else.

[lime kiln]

how can I enable locator_bar in my server? the gamerule is already enabled (using latest folia version)

[fair merlin]

Not available on Folia.

[slow grail]

If I have 16 cores (32 threads) how many netty threads should I use?

[viral stone]

There is no hard rules, it depends on how utilized the threads you have are

[dim merlin]

Best would be
You dont

[grizzled prairie]

Hello everyone,
I know about the recommendation of a minimum of 16 cores.
But in theory, for a server with 100–200 players on Folia — would this server be enough?

[magic orchid]

Very heavily depends on what kind of server you are building (as in the "gamemode")

[grizzled prairie]

SMP

[magic orchid]

I would go with 16 cores then

[zenith patio]

Does everyone here not worry about pearls loading chunks and persisting when they leave? Is there a workaround?

Sorry if there’s been a solution I missed

[modest kestrel]

more than enough

[wet arch]

that's disabled on folia anyway
(on paper there's a config option to disable it, too)

[flat epoch]

hello, when running a folia SMP server with 100 players, we are currently at around 300% CPU usage and have these settings:

threaded-regions:
  grid-exponent: 2
  threads: 12
``` We have a Ryzen 9 9950x with 16 cores and 32 threads.
Can we theoretically do 24 threads instead of 12, to allocate 12 *physical* CPU cores instead of the *hyperthreaded* cores (which means we currently have 6 *physical* cores allocated with "12 threads" right?), so that we have 300%/2400% instead of 300%/1200%? Which would double our player capacity. In other words, do we currently allocate half of what we could?
Do I understand this correctly?

[vapid lynx]

I am a little confused. Where do I find all settings for folia?

[daring nimbus]

paper-global.yml

[vapid lynx]

yeah but for me, there are some just not there and missing

[livid crag]

How are you "checking" the file? And can you verify that you are actually running Folia?

[vapid lynx]

I am running folia. 100% and I am checking with just editing the file lol

[livid crag]

can you run /ver in game and gather the output?

[zenith patio]

I’m sorry I didn’t word it correctly,

I really liked the ability for players to load small areas with pearls on paper, and didn’t do enough research to know pearls don’t persist when you throw it and leave the area on folia

I was wondering if the most recent patch a few days ago or anything planned in the future could allow the behavior

Just was easier to control than permanent chunk loaders, from an admin standpoint

[flat epoch]

bump

[umbral vault]

if you write there 12

it will make 1200%

1 thread = 100%

make the calc based on this

[magic orchid]

If you get more than 100% it probably means that some regions are overloading their thread in terms of single core performance.
Adding more threads will not change that.

Also how you spread your threads is up to you, there is no proper "correct" way

[flat epoch]

no region is using more than 20%. we have 300% total cpu usage.

[coral dragon]

Hey is there any chance you guys are going to make folia for 1.21.10?

[viral coral]

why lol

.11 is already out and available, leaf's not going to spend time working on an outdated .10 release

[coral dragon]

Dammit our server uses 60 datapacks and 30 plugins and we finally got everything updated to 1.21.10 and working smoothly, It's been such a long time in the making so i am now distraut that there is no folia for .10

How much would you quote me to get version for .10?

[viral coral]

that's something you'll have to bring up with leaf assuming he's remotely interested

probably costs you more vs just upgrading to .11

[coral dragon]

which one is leaf? sorry i suck at discord

[jolly glen]

.10 had some deadlocks with nether portals too iirc

[coral dragon]

I'm willing to pay upwards $500 no joke 🙁

[viral coral]

$500 is not exactly a lot

[coral dragon]

fuck

[viral coral]

you're better off spending that time & money into .11

[coral dragon]

well that royaly sucks

[viral coral]

@tranquil epoch someone wants to give you money for 1.21.10 provide thoughts that aren't what i explained above

[coral dragon]

I'm sorry to be such a hastle

[viral coral]

really though just move to .11

[dim merlin]

were there even any real changes between .10 and .11

i doubt that upgrading from 10 to 11 is much work

downgrading folia on the other hand is stupid ngl

[coral dragon]

forsure, well I guess I'm left with no choice, i NEED folia.

another 2-3 months of commissioning devs :c

[timber igloo]

what sort of systems do you have in place that are so specifically taylored to .10?

i feel like API wise there was no change at all?

[fair merlin]

Yeah this isn’t a paid services place. You’ll want to update to 1.21.11 and not try to hire people here or pay folks to update stuff.

You’re always welcome to donate to OpenCollective or to developers individually.

[fair merlin]

Also - just FYI - datapacks with functions don't work on Folia.

So hopefully you aren't hoping to switch to 1.21.11 Folia and use complicated datapacks that use datapack functions.

[haughty gale]

anyone else have issues with spark (latest ver 166 from the ci) on folia? just says no data

[fair merlin]

You’d want to talk to the spark peeps. Might be a bug.

[coral dragon]

Its all good man we are just going to try and get everything working on folia point elevan

[magic orchid]

you should probably use a platform like Fiverr for that kind of requests

[fair merlin]

I’ve deleted your messages. We do not allow solicitation or selling of products or services here.

[magic orchid]

im setting up my new server in 1.21.11 and was wondering if there is still a gamerule to disable the advancement message broadcast.
in 1.21.8 there was a gamerule called something like "AnnounceAdvancements" but i cant find something similar on .11

ok nvm found it, for some reason the tab completion ingame was missing some entries

ok so i set show_advancement_messages to false but it still shows them.
is that a limitation of folia?
the gamerule in .8 used to work perfectly fine

[livid crag]

1. Game rule name has changed in 1.21.11. This is a Vanilla change
2. Game rules is per world so make sure you are making changes in the world you need it changed.

[magic orchid]

what does it affect when i change a gamerule in the server console without any player online?
i did the gamerule command and it said it was changed sucessfully

[jaunty atlas]

Probably overworld. You’d need to use execute to specify dimensions

[lean needle]

i was hoping to switch to folia with my 20+ MASSIVE datapacks will folia support datapacks one day like paper/purpur does that i already use for that?

[inner swift]

Very likely no

[magic orchid]

im not really sure if this is the correct place to post it but ima try my luck.
Im having issues with high ping on my folia server and i got a kinda complicated networking chain for it.
I ran the exact same setup (Everything is the same hardware, software and configuration (except of installing updates)) months ago with no issue and i have no idea how to properly debug the issue.

My setup goes like this:
[DOMAIN] -> VPS (Acts as a reverse proxy/package forwarder) -> Main home router -> Secondary home router -> Minecraft Server.
(Same way back)

The secondary router is configured with a strict firewall that prevents the minecraft server to ping/communicate with any other device within the main network on the main home router.
I have confirmed that the server and VPS are not overloaded (Folia has 20TPS on all regions and low CPU usage, the VPS was sitting at 7% CPU usage).

The problem i am facing is that players on my server (almost every player) has a way higher than usual ping (I usually have ~20, today i had ~100, for others it went into the thousands).
It is 100% not a bandwidth problem either as nobody got actuall kicked for time out so the connections are stable, there is just somehow some latency injected.

Can someone tell me how i can diagnose this and how to find out where the latency comes from?
For me it wasnt that bad but for some people who usually have no problems the game was basicaly unplayable today.
(I also got players all around the globe and afaik everyone had a higher ping than usual)

also i am not using any minecraft proxy (like velocity)

[royal breach]

most likely cause is the latency between users <-> vps location <-> your home location

lets say hypothetically your home is in ohio, and your vps is in china

a player living in delaware has to send network requests all the way to china, and then from there all the way back to ohio... and his responses also have to travel all the way from ohio to china and finally back to him in delaware

there can also be random spikes in latency the vps provider might encounter with their own networking infrastructure, that could be why you are seeing such a high variance

[fair merlin]

Probably won't ever support datapacks like Paper does, no.

[finite hinge]

In fact it's impossible for Folia to support datapack functions

There is no way for it to give feedback on if a command was successful and how many things it affected

Well, I suppose since datapacks don't have to be running from a region thread (like player or command block commands do) it might theoretically be possible but it would be a custom codepath just for datapacks since as mentioned you can't do it for other executors

And I think a lot of those things end up mixing in command blocks and redstone logic too which still wouldn't work

[lean needle]

id mix in with command blocks/redstone blocks would be very good i CANNOT replicate the bracken pack or some other massive packs as a plugin

[zenith patio]

Hey, is it the opinion of the devs that under pearls loading chunks is a bad thing? Thrown pearls Persisting when you leave the area?

I just was curious to know if that’s a bad thing and why it’s beneficial to not have them so I can get up to speed

[modest kestrel]

chunk loaders

[zenith patio]

Yea but I like them so much! Permanent chunk loaders are too taxing of everyone’s doing it

[proven bison]

I've switched to Folia, but the player locator bar isnt working. It only shows XP.
Is this normal? Or is this some plugin that's malfunctioning.

[hexed ice]

the player locator bar does not work on folia

[proven bison]

Alright fair enough, thanks :)

[karmic blaze]

Hello everyone, my friends. I’m asking for your help with optimizing Folia so it runs нормально on my server SMP vanilla with 150–200 players online.

My dedicated server specs:
• AMD Ryzen 9 5950X (16 cores / 32 threads)
• 128 GB RAM
• 2× M.2 drives, total 4 TB

I’m having problems: sometimes the server ping spikes, and sometimes there’s lag in chunks. I want to properly optimize Folia to reduce/remove lag. All of my worlds are fully preloaded.

[karmic blaze]

https://spark.lucko.me/u1qTwEmdkq

[frosty helm]

bump here

[cosmic pawn]

Will folia ever be “NUMA-aware”?

[hexed ice]

it is

[cosmic pawn]

I heard it wasn’t

Someone tested it on a dual-cpu machine and it only utilised threads on one cpu

Has that changed

[hexed ice]

there's a system prop you need to use to activate it according to https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/commit/eee7128bc810195ad758ea5ace1b72c600896d3b

[viral stone]

Folia doesn’t care about your CPU topology, that’s on your OSs scheduler to deal with

The big issue is that modern chips have their memory all split up, so two physical CPUs might have different RAM slots between them; thing is that folia isn’t fully NUMA aware, it’s not really viable to pull off without actively designing for it, and that’s not really something you do on somebody else’s codebase

[umbral vault]

CDD die issue

9950x also have this but there is a issue, The output is a single channel.

[analog vine]

Someone has an idea why my GC is so high? Wrong spec config?
-Xms100G
-Xmx100G
-XX:+UseZGC
-XX:+ZGenerational
-XX:+AlwaysPreTouch
-XX:+DisableExplicitGC
-XX:+ParallelRefProcEnabled
-XX:+PerfDisableSharedMem
-XX:ConcGCThreads=10
-XX:ZCollectionInterval=30
-XX:ZAllocationSpikeTolerance=5

[umbral vault]

Firstly, please answer these questions.

1. Shared host or Dedicated?

[umbral vault]

oh.

[analog vine]

Dedicated ax102 from hetzner

[umbral vault]

i didnt saw that

[analog vine]

is it a problem?

[umbral vault]

Offline Mode = PaperMC cant help you.

due to EULA.

[hexed ice]

you were already told last night that we don't support offline mode

[umbral vault]

and law things...

[analog vine]

But how should i test it without bots?😅

[umbral vault]

uh.

[hexed ice]

get some actual players on your server and see how it performs then

[analog vine]

Okay, the problems comes up at 300 players and i understand you cant help cause of the eula… thanks

[lean needle]

folia and datpacks YES

[timber igloo]

folia and datpacks NO!!

[chrome loom]

folia and some datapacks Maybe

[fair merlin]

Reminder that help channels aren’t for shitposting.

[grizzled prairie]

Is Player Locator Bar (experience bar) working on folia?

[inner swift]

No, it's disabled

[grizzled prairie]

Okay, thank you

[nova flint]

hello. How can I allow players to use the /tps command?

[thorn cove]

what's better for folia between the 2, higher cpu count but less ghz or higher ghz but less cpu count?

[grizzled prairie]

We use Rise-S from OVH, for 150-200 players it is good.
You also need high single core speed

But if you want something with 16 cores, use Hetzner Ax102 or Ovh Rise-L

[mystic shard]

1

[magic orchid]

The top option (16c) is better for folia

[umbral vault]

folia wants multiple cores with high IPC.

[umbral vault]

4584PX will get the big work for you

[inner swift]

By the way, unless you're looking for something specific in that EPYC PX machine, a 9950x3D is cheaper and better

[umbral vault]

^

[glossy narwhal]

WORK_STEALING hangs server periodically

Sometimes with no stacktrace

[umbral vault]

did you activated the process with

numactl --interleave=all

• other things included

• you need more than 1 node. Like 2-3-4...

multiple cpu etc.

[paper siren]

That shouldn’t be required for it to work

Creating thread dumps and reporting the problem is probably the best thing you can do

[umbral vault]

overall true lol

[tulip swift]

how do i load worlds on folia? are there plugins for loading worlds?

[viral stone]

runtime world loading is unsupported

there are plugins which hack around it to do stuff, but, not something we really support

[tulip swift]

what about loading it on startup

I used to use datapack to achieve that but now it no longer works, has anything changed?

[viral stone]

datapacks are the only supported mechanism to load worlds

[magic orchid]

did you confirm that your datapacks are in the correct format for 1.21.11?
mojang likes to change the format when updating the game so a datapack for 1.21.8 for example might not work correctly out of the box on a 1.21.11 server

[lime stag]

Anyone else having this issue on Folia?

It's creating fake players, can't kick them. Only way to yeet them, is a server restart

They're real people but, they disconnect, and no disconnect event happens

[dim merlin]

Probably a plugin issue

[umbral vault]

plugin issue

[timber igloo]

i've had this problem multiple times on 1.21.11 (without any plugins) and i know of multiple people who have had it aswell, even ones reporting it in this channel

[timber igloo]

but at the time i was running a popular folia fork. so can you confirm youre on plain folia?

[lime stag]

Yeah it’s plain

[cosmic pawn]

Bros adding fake players

[lapis dune]

Anyone that can help me real quick?

[thin compass]

anyone have zstd for folia?

i need it for velocity and folia

500 using like 9-10 of my cpus

[viral coral]

if compression is that much of a problem then turn it off?

you can't use zstd when sending to to the client and compression between proxy & backend is useless eitherway

[thin compass]

Already -1 for compression

[viral coral]

right

then zstd isn't going to help you

[viral coral]

more importantly, there is no zstd support in minecraft

if you're somehow using 10 cpus at only 500 players, get a better cpu

[timber igloo]

https://modrinth.com/plugin/worlds-1 keep in mind uses a hack to load/unload worlds at runtime

[umbral vault]

hackyy

[mild fog]

Its either that or nothing

[real summit]

Any good lifesteal plugins with folia support?

[somber isle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1478446162779574354/1478446478920913026/20260303-1737-49.0363228.mp4?ex=69a86e14&is=69a71c94&hm=b26455319da344cee52799e82ff7b7901368e0dab0cba35c4bd823b75bfeee74&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1478446162779574354/1478446477134004244/20260303-1734-21.5200709.mp4?ex=69a86e14&is=69a71c94&hm=6145f65d47ad88ad6eae94decab7cbb4a52796df01b6b33844f46c07c7464618&

has anyone else experienced this issue? folia 1.21.8

[fair merlin]

Can't really watch videos right now so not sure what the issue is, but would recommend reproducing it on Folia 1.21.11 and seeing if it's still an issue.

[somber isle]

alright, but the video is water logged powered rails with a minecart going back and forth and in some locations its quicker and in some locations its slower, expected behaviour should be slower as when a rail is water logged it slows down the minecart

[real summit]

I found a download for worldedit, but not worldguard. Any tips?

[frosty shale]

Did you try it even if it's not supported

[tulip swift]

i used datapack to create a dimension and can use the following command to teleport into it:
/execute in custom_dimension:void run tp @s 0 100 0
but when I use Bukkit.getWorld("void") it returns null

what might be the problem?

[fair merlin]

We (still) don't support offline mode servers.

[tulip swift]

but it is not an offline server

[fair merlin]

Post a spark report? You have like 5 warnings for having offline mode servers.

[cosmic pawn]

Anyone know how DonutSMP did this?

[livid crag]

You still get loading screen wdym

it just isnt a screen

[cosmic pawn]

Not sure what that means

I’m pretty sure the guy is saying in that screenshot is that it’s essentially seamless to travel between 2 instances of folia

Since donutsmp works like one large world split over 255 machines each running a folia instance

[fair merlin]

They use a custom setup, not an off the shelf server software. We don’t make or support that software and have no idea how to get it. They built it themselves.

[finite hinge]

If you mod velocity to skip the world switching packets you'll seemlessly switch servers

[stark sable]

just dont send respawn packet

someone already showcased this technique

[finite hinge]

It only works if you're keeping everything in sync between servers though (chunks, entities, datapacks, resource packs, etc)

[stark sable]

#velocity-dev message

[fresh cave]

https://github.com/RookieCuzz/LoadingScreenRemover

[finite hinge]

Well, you can send extra packets to handle the chunks and entities part

[stark sable]

bro theres no way its that simple 😭

[fresh cave]

maybe

[stark sable]

doesnt client use respawn packet for like garbage collection or something stupid

[fresh cave]

i havent really tested it

but its on the packet events discord

[finite hinge]

hypixel has been doing that for like a decade I think

The proxy way I mentioned, I mean

[stark sable]

velocity config option when 🤩

[finite hinge]

Like they had a game mode with islands and jump pads connecting them, getting on a jump pad would switch what server you're on

[stark sable]

surely it has side effects tho

[stark sable]

i think that does terrain screen no?

even for a flash

[finite hinge]

It has side effects unless you set up both servers to work with it

[stark sable]

https://youtu.be/qarJnvWc83s?t=932

it has screen for switching islands atleast, lemme see about jump pads

[finite hinge]

Basically you need to understand the protocol and the state machine the protocol is managing on client and then either try to ensure the state machine would be the same between the two servers (not 100% possible, afaik) or how to adjust it to match what the new server is actually doing without doing a respawn

[stark sable]

or just read what client does on respawn packet and try to make it do same with different packets

[finite hinge]

I think that's what I just said?

[stark sable]

yes but in simpler way

[finite hinge]

We're doing deep hackery, simple way is incorrect way 😛

[stark sable]

looking at the code

it doesnt really do much anyways

just makes a new player and copies all the stuff from old player onto it

[finite hinge]

Are you looking at the server code?

[stark sable]

nah cpl

but like i guess new ClientLevel( would do alot

[finite hinge]

Oh yeah one thing you definitely have to keep in sync is data packs (or their equivalent in paper plugins) and resource packs otherwise you have to go back to configuration phase

But since you're trying to make a seamless instancing system presumably that's already a given, both servers are hosting the same world

[stark sable]

does donut even use an rp

[finite hinge]

The real hard part is keeping all the chunks and entities in sync between servers, that's outside of the protocol

Unless you're doing a static world

[stark sable]

resource pack is so annoying and shiitty it can only be justified if your server is like pottercraft and changes everything

its crazy when servers use a whole resource pack just to add those [OWNER] icons things and some emojis

[finite hinge]

Eh, pretty sure the majority of networks do resource packs

[stark sable]

and u can do that now with chat components

[stark sable]

i would assume it hurts retention alot

every time you want to play their server you gotta wait 10+ seconds to load their pack

and 10+ seconds when you leave

if only mojang supported direct atlas in resource pack, where u could prebuild atlas and just shove it into gpu or something

[finite hinge]

They don't even do that for their own assets

[stark sable]

but then again in old versions there was no pack loading screen and theres only a brief 1 second lag spike so idk what mojang did to fuck up rp loading so much

[finite hinge]

Atlas depends on GPU, driver, and graphics settings in game too

[stark sable]

true kinda actually

euugh can they not just do SOMETHING to make it not so slow

multi threading, bro make it fucking jni C code or something fuck

they should at very least cache the vanilla atlases so they can be swapped right back in after the pack is unloaded

with how powerful modern computers are, loading screens shouldnt even have to exist in 99% of cases lol

literally like 1 million times faster than old pcs

instead of spending that time coding the loading screen, just optimzie ur code

[lime stag]

Yeah can confirm, having this issue still using plain folia

[cosmic pawn]

Yeah I didn't expect that you guys have that native in velocity. I was just wondering

[wind kindle]

Any good multi currency plugins for Folia?

[green egret]

Can /spectate not be used in folia? Are there any alternative options?

I want to bind the player's view to a display entity, and then achieve the animation playback effect by teleporting to this display entity.

[timber igloo]

you can most certanily still do this using the API

if it works on paper that is

[green egret]

OK. I'll try.

[woeful gale]

can anyone recommend a hosting provider for Folia? I want an SMP server with plugins, enough space for 50-100 players (ill reduce update speed and monster spawn rate, etc.) (players are from Asia).

[swift night]

ovh

[final bronze]

bro am so confused pls help me 😭
which hardware should I go with
should I get Ryzen 9950x with 32 threads
or should I go epyc with higher threads
i just want 400-500 player

CPUs available
1.Intel Plat 8168/8160 Low Mid Tier
2.Intel E5-2667 v4 Mid Tier
3.Ryzen 9950x Extreme Tier
4.AMD EPYC 4344P High Tier
5.AMD EPYC 7313P Mid Tier

here are my options

[magic orchid]

Ryzen

[rare hare]

How many regions are you expecting to have on the server at a single time?

Or what is your expected player count and your world size?

[final bronze]

work border is 50k so 25kx25k

on 230 player I have seen 70-80 region

[vapid lynx]

Depends on what your players do. If they are ressource heavy you go with the ryzen, if you have a wide spread with low usage, go with a cpu with more cores

[final bronze]

its an smp, i expect the player to make redstone heavy farms, kinda similer to donut smp

[magic orchid]

I personally would go with the ryzen then, if the ryzen isnt enough then you really need the newest of the new enterprise chips.
Even a 3 year old high end server chip will not do if the ryzen cant handle it

[vapid lynx]

then go with the ryzen

[final bronze]

ohh shii thanku, I wil consider this

[torn jetty]

Hey, lets say i have a big SMP running with 200 players and a very large map. Do I go with folia or just paper or a different fork due to the fact not many plugins support folia yet.

I would run this on a ryzen 9 5950X with 16 cores and 32 threads. Got 128gb ram available

[final bronze]

from my experience i would go folia

for stability