folia-help

[primal oyster]

Sure

new Thread(()->

[manic quarry]

I would be more concerned about oreobfuscator

[opal spoke]

so right now is this good?

[primal oyster]

No it's not good

[opal spoke]

😢

[manic quarry]

enabling players to get bundles probably introduced like 9999 dupes

[primal oyster]

Is your map pregen?

[opal spoke]

im using a old version folia because my plugin do not support new version

[manic quarry]

10m map?

are you good?

[primal oyster]

I asked him

[viral stone]

I mean, those thread settings are basically irrelevant at this point

[opal spoke]

regen for like 50k

[manic quarry]

they already said their map limit is 10mx10m

[viral stone]

The issue is that they have an region which is hurting

[opal spoke]

its fine its a spawn region

[manic quarry]

that would not do anything

[viral stone]

then it's working fine

[primal oyster]

Then pregen your map

[manic quarry]

[opal spoke]

i already pregen my spawn region

i just want to know is my thread number goodenough

[primal oyster]

Yes, it's a suggestion for a better performance

[opal spoke]

and will it crash my server

[primal oyster]

Your spawn region has too many entities, it's laggy as hell

[viral stone]

does it contain the number of regions which are ticking?

[manic quarry]

just pregen 10mx10m bro bro

[primal oyster]

No you won't crash

[viral stone]

yes? then it's probably fine

[primal oyster]

And increase your thread to 24, see if you can get rid of those "20k" entities at your spawn point though..

[manic quarry]

if you want to fix the regions that have low tps, you might need to look into why are they that bad

[viral stone]

increasing to 24 is not going to help much

especially on windows

especially on a hybrid CPU

[primal oyster]

He has 100 regions

[viral stone]

Yes, and they're not using the full utilisation

[manic quarry]

yeah, that hybrid cpu is probably the worst thing there

[primal oyster]

In which some are likely consuming more than a thread only for themselves

[manic quarry]

e cores are fucking scam

[opal spoke]

oh

so a better idea is to change the cpu

whats the best cpu for folia right now

[manic quarry]

at least a good idea, those e cores are around 20% worse than a regular core

[viral stone]

well, other than your bad performing regions, your thing generally looks okay without any real actual context

[opal spoke]

ok so should i change the thread to 24 or not

[viral stone]

you only have 16 performance threads

[primal oyster]

It will depend on your use case

[opal spoke]

a better performance is a better performance

[primal oyster]

24 will help.

[opal spoke]

and it will not crash my server?

[primal oyster]

but it won't fix your main issue

[opal spoke]

its fine

[primal oyster]

Why would it crash your server

[opal spoke]

idk

[viral stone]

it's not going to crash

just running into ecores is generally slower

[opal spoke]

ok then i change to 24

[viral stone]

you really need to make sure that your OS is updated, etc, etc

[manic quarry]

it likely won't help if regions get assigned an e core for the main region thread

[primal oyster]

It doesn't make any difference

[manic quarry]

yes, yes it does

[primal oyster]

Yes sure

[manic quarry]

.

[primal oyster]

30k entities at a performance core vs a regular core

It's a lot better to have a region at 140mspt else than 110mspt

[opal spoke]

so at lest this is better than 12 threads am i right

[viral stone]

I mean

they're swerve balling adressing the actual real issues here

but, okay

[primal oyster]

Yes

[opal spoke]

ya because i cant really fix that main issue

[primal oyster]

But please get rid of the mass amount of entities

Why not?

[opal spoke]

so at least i can get a slightly better performance

[primal oyster]

Why do you need almost 30k entities there

[opal spoke]

idk player put them there

[manic quarry]

I would just add most entities to that one option that prevents loading of more than x of entity type in a chunk

can't recall exact name

[primal oyster]

I thought that was for saving

[opal spoke]

and iwill lower the spawn limit

[manic quarry]

but I'm willing to bet noone would notice if only say 25 entities loaded instead of 50 next time they laod the chunk

[primal oyster]

You should at least try to know why they need entities there

[manic quarry]

same difference, effect is the same

[primal oyster]

More than ever it's likely someone just spamming entities or just your mob caps like crazy.

[manic quarry]

next time they load the chunk there's less entities

it;s 100% someone spamming entities

there's now way natural spawning would get to that point

[primal oyster]

It could be farms

His sim is high, someone who knows how to build farms could really spam

But you know, he said it's a spawn point, who would build one close to a spawn point.

[manic quarry]

it's an anarchy server

people probably just trying to make it lag there

[opal spoke]

😢

i cant tract the specific location

folia dont support entity detection

[primal oyster]

if you had spark you'd see the chunks

[opal spoke]

do spark support newest folia?

[manic quarry]

there's folia branch out there

I used to use it like 2 months ago

[primal oyster]

It works good

[opal spoke]

where can i find folia branch spark

[digital cedar]

On the spark repo.

[opal spoke]

this one right

thx

[wooden wraith]

I’m currently checking out dedi’s for an event server, but the issue is that I cannot find a suitable CPU

As most high end ones stop at 16
Cores

For high cpu scores

[viral stone]

Well

you either pick high core count or high single perf performance

[wooden wraith]

Like a Ryzen 9 series cpu?

[viral stone]

not sure what you're asking there

[primal oyster]

what kind of event

also if you're checking redis, check datapacket out.

what kind of map size are you going to have on the event?

[opal spoke]

for folia which cpu is better, 14900K or Dual epyc 7k62

[viral stone]

depends on gamemode/player spread

[opal spoke]

anarchy SMP

[viral stone]

NUMA isn't exactly supported, however

idk what that entails in terms of player layout

like, if you have players close to one another, using a web server CPU is going to have regions hit their limit fairly fast

but, let you have more regions, because more cores

high perf desktop CPUs let you have regions able to tolerate more stuff going in them at the price of being able to tick less at once

[opal spoke]

more regions

[primal oyster]

its all about the player count and spreadness.

[opal spoke]

hmm

[viral stone]

well, just having more cores isn't going to magically make your players spread out more

[primal oyster]

example:

[viral stone]

Please read the readme

[primal oyster]

I can get this running on a 7713P (this map is 50000x50000), but I can't get this to run fine on a 7950x or 14900k

so you have to account for if you're going to have A LOT of regions or if you'd rather have less regions, all that depends on your performance tests as well

i'd never recommend using a 14900k unless you're just running pufferfish without any entiteis and the event is just pvp

outside of that it's not worth using it

[opal spoke]

thats true

so folia do not work well on duel cpu?

[primal oyster]

It's a mysterious environment.

I wouldn't expect it to work properly

[viral stone]

NUMA is not supported, so there is expected to be a small performance hit due to syncronisation across CPUs

[opal spoke]

okay so the best solution for now is 7950x right

wait 7713P

[viral stone]

there is no best solution

it's going to depend on your needs

[opal spoke]

okay

[viral stone]

and what you want to favour

at the end of the day, a region is pretty much its own little server

running those on a web CPU means that you're going to run into perf issues with individual regions fairly fast if you start having people building close together

on the other side, high end desktop CPUs have much less cores available, so overall, you're not able to support as many regions, but if you have a lot of players within individual regions going crazy, etc, those regions won't bottle down as fast

[livid crag]

cant wait for pedro to get those new hardware for test gonna need you to run a chunky pregen and see the numbers too

[primal oyster]

• How large and HOW WELL spread out my players are going to be on the world
• Will I have a lot of entities per region, or this is mostly intended as just a normal thing, without too much overhead
• Will people build lots of farms in my server that will affect the performance
• After testing bots on my event map, with my algorithm/function to spread out players, how many regions did I get, do expect to handle more?

Do I really need an AMD With more cores CPU?

And the most important question:
Am I using Folia because I want to be fancy, or am I actually seeing the big benefit here?

[opal spoke]

so if im having trobule with this one specific region, 14900k is better right

[viral stone]

well, as I said earlier, your biggest issue is the number of entities

[primal oyster]

no cpu will get you a miracle

accept that

[opal spoke]

🙏 okay

[viral stone]

but, well, going to a web CPU is generally going to make that region perform worse

[opal spoke]

i see

https://mclo.gs/A83oOQ2

is my java flag good enough

[primal oyster]

64gb for 130 players

[opal spoke]

im using Shenandoah

and how much RAM should i allocate

for like 150 player

[primal oyster]

i want a threaddriper

but they dont have it

i managed to cap that 7713p with that performance test

[livid crag]

[opal spoke]

should i allocate less RAM?

[primal oyster]

it's not going to make your MSPT -30

you do it if you think you don't need those 64 gbs

you want a serious talk

the seriouis talk is

get rid of those 20k entities

[opal spoke]

😢

[primal oyster]

no cpu will make you a miracle (at least on 2024)

Thats it

youre just gonna be wasting yours and everybody elses time by asking teh same thing over and over again

you got almost 30k entities in a single region and god knows what they are/for what

thats it

end of story

[opal spoke]

could that be possible causing by per player mob spawn

[lucid thistle]

If you're expecting 150 players, I'm not sure why you're considering these enormous CPU count servers. A normal paper server can handle 80 to 100 just about. Making some simple assumptions that a region is equivalent to a server, you can handle that player count with just two regions - you don't need an enormously high thread CPU

[primal oyster]

your best bet

add spark

generate a profiler

find the coords of the chunks

tp there

done

[opal spoke]

okay

i just want to know the optimize RAM allocation strategy for folia

its nothing to do with my 30k entity

[primal oyster]

you dont need to

you have 130 players

[lucid thistle]

If you're having issues with players not spreading out, you could create / find a plugin that spawns players in a random location over an enormous area, forcing natural spreading out. (assuming this is acceptable for an anarchy server)

[primal oyster]

I had 128GB of ram allocated to this here,
just keep your 64GB if it doesn't affect you

[opal spoke]

okay

[primal oyster]

you'll likely not ever need more than 64gb, thats lots of bytes for you to use, and if you endup using, then congrats

[wooden wraith]

Its a blend of SMP and factions. Where mostly players are spread out but there might be a peak of players in one location(but not all) at a certain point during the event(Like a claiming war etc)

[viral stone]

then you probably wanna lean more towards desktop CPUs rather than web server CPUs

[wooden wraith]

So a high performing 16c/32t

[keen carbon]

Does using too much RAM cause any disadvantages? I mean, what harm could this do for him, like using it instead of keeping it?

I am running 100 GB RAM for 60-70 players, but there are huge farms, I use all settings such as simu and distance at default and the world is endless.(30m) random teleport teleports them up to 500 thousand blocks.

[primal oyster]

depends on what you do with it

it'll usually not do any damages depending on the GC you use as well

It's better to have than to lack

[wooden wraith]

Say I have an event server, 500 players online at once max. Where one region will at one time only contain 150 players at a maximum(general approximation).

Now with a 16c/32t Ryzen 9 7950X3D
64Gb of ram. I also want to host a Live bluemap(pre genned) and a simple Postgres Database

Is that feasable

[daring nimbus]

the region with 150 players will run about the same as a Paper server would run with 150 players. So likely not great, depending on what they are doing exactly

ideally, reduce the amount of players in one region further

[wooden wraith]

Well going for 5 “factions”

With around 100 players each

Also will optimize as you’d optimize paper

I do not need most vanilla features

It has SMP elements

[daring nimbus]

if each faction has its own "homeland" or something, you could try to make that bigger so that each faction has multiple Folia regions

[wooden wraith]

But not that many

We aim for a large map

And have some fast travel feature for the gameplay

But there will be instances where 2 “factions” fight over certain territories

So it will be concetrated to a certain extend at peaks

[daring nimbus]

that sounds pretty cool. But especially then I would try to limit the amount of players in a single region somewhat, or disable additional stuff in the regions with the fights (like, all entities). Because in PvP low/unstable region TPS will be more noticable of course

[wooden wraith]

Ye

Mobs are not needed during such an “event”

Like you will have claiming days(during certain hours)

And just more “regular” smp days

To optimize for single region performance I’ll figure it out

And find good gameplay “excuses”

But its mostly about the additional postgres and bluemap server running on the dedicated machine

[daring nimbus]

No idea about Bluemap, but Postgres will depend on what that DB is actually doing. by itself it shouldn't be that bad

[wooden wraith]

Is 13 high performance cores enough

[daring nimbus]

Not really

[wooden wraith]

Because most high end machines with desktop cpu’s do not have more then 16 cores total

And I definitely need high performance cores

[daring nimbus]

Keep in mind there are also chunkloading and netty threads that will see some heavy use with that many players. The Folia tests ran on Epyc CPUs for that reason

[wooden wraith]

Do epyc cpu’s pack a punch for single region peak hours

At most we’ll spend around 200€ a month for a dedicated

As this event will run for about 3 weeks

[daring nimbus]

They just have more cores, single-core performance might even be slightly worse

[wooden wraith]

And we are also aiming for some sponsors

[wooden wraith]

Even in my situation where we have some peak player counts in a single region

Keep in mind no chunk gen & stuff like villages, strongholds and most survival elements except for the fact of being in survival mode are disabled

And we can even limit entities during peak events

Like no drops

[daring nimbus]

Issue is you are kinda in uncharted territory, there aren't that many people running Folia at such a large scale. the 7950 is an amazing CPU, I would only worry about the core count

[viral stone]

single core synthetics put many of the epycs on par with like 10 year old i7s

only synthetics so not the full picture

but, well, it's in that area of "it explains a bunch of how they act"

[wooden wraith]

Would a modern epyc cpu

Work for a single high activity region

[daring nimbus]

I would probably go with the 7950, but run BlueMap and that database on a separate machine

that seems like the easiest and safest solution

[viral stone]

Once again, epyc's single core perf is comparable to 10 year old i7s

[wooden wraith]

Thanks

Should I keep like 1 core for the OS and stuff?

[daring nimbus]

yeah keeping a bit of space for the OS and unexpected load makes sense

[wooden wraith]

Primarily

I just do a basic SSH console

No pterodactyl

No other apps

[daring nimbus]

Leaf did some very rough estimates for thread allocation here: https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia#how-to-best-configure-folia
they should still be mostly up-to-date, but again, just rough estimates

[wooden wraith]

And luckily I can optimize allot

As there are only a couple of external plugins

WorldEdit, WorldGuard, LuckPerms, BlueMap, Litebans

And maybe ProtocolLib and Geyser/Floodgate

So no bloated mess

And after that custom made plugin to do like everything since I don’t trust most public plugins to be thread safe

Say I go for 500 players(which highly likely won’t be reached at most times as its the maximum amount we’ll allow)

5 for netty threads, 3 chunk system io, 3 and then 4 for for ticking cores

But then again, the paper test ran on an epyc cpu which single core performance is much lower then mine

So I can probably scrape some additional cores

[viral stone]

yea, but they had player spread

[wooden wraith]

I’ll also have player spread

Like if I knew for certain my players will be at one location at a time, I’d never go for folia

For the netty cores the higher boost clock might just allow for less cores needed at all

[primal oyster]

how spread out

[viral stone]

when you have 150 players in a region, that's not spread

[wooden wraith]

Pretty, I think for going with a 15kx15k map

[primal oyster]

^

15k x 15k is very small.

[wooden wraith]

Only at certain points

[primal oyster]

a single goliath is 50k x 50k

[viral stone]

Well, yea

but, you basically can't optimally deal with both, essentially

you're likely going to have to tilt one way

[primal oyster]

TICKING CORES?

dont do that

if you're talking about tick threads 4 is too little

[wooden wraith]

Look, for the peak hours of players being in a single ticking region, I can deal with it

[primal oyster]

4 threads is too little.

[wooden wraith]

I can also go for 90 players per “faction”

[wispy moat]

What is the current Folia version please?

[primal oyster]

check github

[wooden wraith]

making the total possible player count go to 450

[wispy moat]

okey dokey thanks

[primal oyster]

you're not going to handle 450 players on 4 tick threads

[wooden wraith]

Meaning that peak players in a single region roughly will be 125

[primal oyster]

thats not how it works

The map doesn't create regions based on your world border

you can't just assume your map will have 4 regions

just because you have "4" factions

[wooden wraith]

Then, back to my original question

[primal oyster]

Folia creates/deletes/merges regions based on your view distance and the grid exponent.

[wooden wraith]

Most high end desktop cpu’s

At a maximum have 16 cores

[primal oyster]

IF you expect to handle 450 players,
go with an EPYC, customize the code of folia for region creation/merge so you get the change to at least have more regions on your 15k x 15k

is the 15k total or -15k to 15k

[wooden wraith]

The 15kx15k is not final

[daring nimbus]

only concern with an epyc would be the amount of players in a single region imo

[primal oyster]

I mean, since you're already going with folia, just write a custom code that your mobncaps can be lowered if the region has lots of players yk

dynamic options per "mass mspt usage"

[wooden wraith]

Map size won’t matter for the gameplay as I can introduce fast travels that supports the “events” lore

[wooden wraith]

That was my idea in general

[primal oyster]

can you write code?

[wooden wraith]

Of course

[primal oyster]

ok

[wooden wraith]

I write most code myself

[primal oyster]

then go benchmark

thats where you get your answer

real-test scenario

[wooden wraith]

But just in case, what kind of cpu still has high single core performance(in case a single region might end up doing allot of work)

but has more then 16 cores

Since the netty io, chunk io and workers take up quite a bit

[viral stone]

pretty much none afaik

there is no demand for that kind of performance on the desktop

only really servers

[primal oyster]

look

[viral stone]

and pushing cores that hard is not worth it for the TDP capacity of server racks, or the energy efficency curve

[inner swift]

Maybe the new threadrippers

[primal oyster]

7713P and 7950x

the threaddripers are perfect

but you're likely not finding them anywhere for "cheap"

AT ALL

These things cost almost half of a tesla or something like that

[inner swift]

I wonder if it's even viable to find them at all lol

[primal oyster]

you're not getting one rented for less than like $2k/month

[primal oyster]

datapacket has 9754's

bare config on their website look it up

its like $2k and something min monthly

they even got dual 9754's

https://tenor.com/view/bloxcrusher-mrbot-mining-robux-roblox-bobux-gif-22611801

[primal oyster]

your

best

of the best

of the best bets

is to actually run a performance test my friend

[viral stone]

snake oil, but..

[primal oyster]

thats the real only way

lmao

we used the 7713Ps

check that one out

the threaddriper 7995 there

shows some real work

[primal oyster]

@inner swift

^

buy a threaddriper for your desktop

its only like 50k BRL or something

CHEAP MAN! 😳

[viral stone]

Yea, that threadripper is pretty on par for single thread perf with recent intel and AMD desktop CPUs

[primal oyster]

just can't really find it mostly anywhere sadly

maybe in a couple of years

[viral stone]

wait longer enough and they'll be throwing them out with the entire rack

[primal oyster]

f

[wooden wraith]

How can I test the netty io load

Without needing 500 players

Because since a desktop cpu single perf is higher

Maybe need less cores for netty

[primal oyster]

no

if you want 500 players you need more threads than just 4

[wooden wraith]

Mhh, you know what, I’ll go for 300 players

Its the first time throwing such an event(altho from a past client I do have experience with the managing part)

4 “factions” with 75 players each or smth

For future iterations if it gets popular enough

Can always opt for better hardware

[livid crag]

Id take Pedro’s advice seriously. He’s one of the few people who actually have experience running network of over 2000 people.

[wooden wraith]

I will

@primal oyster If you won’t mind I’d like to take our convo to dms

[primal oyster]

pay me

30 trillion dollars

[keen carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/typing-chewing-eating-laptop-on-the-computer-gif-16589858

me watching conversation

[primal oyster]

are you eating a hamburguer

and you dont even offer half?

...

[livid crag]

People offer their experience for free because they like the community. Going in DM sounds way more serious than it is doing it publicly

[primal oyster]

we can keep it here g

its about folia

its all knowledge and opinions

what i tell you may help someone and what someone else says here might help me at some point

it's like that saying

[keen carbon]

It's really interesting for me to hear this conversation from an experienced person like Pedro.

[primal oyster]

"when you're not paying - you're the product"

[primal oyster]

im not really experienced

[primal oyster]

yeah

if you can start lower without ruining teh experience

it sounds like a better idea

but i still keep my suggestion

[keen carbon]

Then if the person using folia with 3000 players is not experienced, who is really experienced?

[livid crag]

|| if Pedro was experienced, he wouldn’t delete that DB… ||

[primal oyster]

if you can run performance tests on it with the "exact setup" then sure

^

being too speedy makes mistakes happen

[arctic tapir]

sir this is a on topic channel

[primal oyster]

L Pedro

lmao

[arctic tapir]

also

[wooden wraith]

Lmao

[arctic tapir]

fuck you

[primal oyster]

dont tell me i deleted your 2 billions

his dirt house is gone 😳

[wooden wraith]

Well to be fair, I wish to go in more detail for what I am going to do

[primal oyster]

you can't go here?

there's mostly only devs

i doubt theres any configuration weirdo looking at this channel

[wooden wraith]

Have this whole concept

And will probably bloat this chat

[primal oyster]

more than often details make a huge diference on the solutions

[wooden wraith]

I can keep out more specific details, and focus on the technical details probably then

[primal oyster]

yeah

no need to explain the fun

just give numbers and metrics

[wooden wraith]

Let me grab me laptop

[fair merlin]

Or take the convo to #general

[tacit tartan]

The number of "can I use folia on my oversold shared host with max 2 concurrent players" I see here is depressing unfortunately

[fair merlin]

If it's not directly help related.

Very very very few people have the time or interest to give help over DMs.

[wooden wraith]

I mean, I won’t even find it strange if they never release public build jars for folia

I can see that go wrong in an instant

[primal oyster]

maybe in the future

[wooden wraith]

Especially last couple days where I see how much thread safety I have to take into account

[primal oyster]

but explain more about the details and metrics

[wooden wraith]

Not only the schedulers

[primal oyster]

thats the argument everyone gets into that makes everyone think Folia will likely "never" replace or take over the majority of paper usage, and its mostly all bets and personal views

[wooden wraith]

Well for this iteration I don’t have a running build yet

[primal oyster]

whats the detais and metrics

[wooden wraith]

its more the idea

I hope to be able to do a proof of concept somewhere next week

When certain features are developed

Let me write a nicely formatted message

[primal oyster]

alright

put numbers on it please

lots of numbers

[wooden wraith]

Event Server

Main premise, it is a blend of SMP/Factions which will last around 3 weeks.
You got 4 factions each consisting of 75 members, which will have their own "homeland".
The goal is to "colonize" the most territories but not just amount but do it tactfully as certain territories have certain resource/gameplay advantages.

To colonize a territory you have to be with your team inside a "nexus" of that specific territory and the last faction standing claims that territory for the day(Not able to claim every day hence the "peak hours").

What this will mean technically is, that at most you'd have arround 100 players around a nexus at once(Taking into account that for the gameplay it is not a smart idea to have the entire faction defending/attacking one territory at once since their others might be attacked by the other factions).

[fair merlin]

It really would be better if you moved this to #general

[wooden wraith]

Also you can have a full war between 2 factions, in which both will probably split up into 2 groups and go to each others "homeland" nexus, but this will be a less resource intensive event due to the fact the total will end up being 75 in a single region max roughly

[fair merlin]

Since you aren't looking for actual help with a Folia server.

We'd rather keep this channel open for folks who may

[primal oyster]

he's talking about using folia

he's explaining the idea of what hes gonna use it for

but if you really care about that message here we can go in dms no problem

i dont mind

[wooden wraith]

It is primarily about technical advice

[fair merlin]

What sort of advice are you looking for? It might be helpful to outline that

[wooden wraith]

Well generally, cpu and core allocation

• recommended map size/distance

And maybe possibly about stabilty + couple of 3rd party plugins I intend on using

[primal oyster]

So there'll be "4 mass" regions with lots of players because of the Nexus?

[wooden wraith]

Most of the times ye

[primal oyster]

a nexus is basically like a "chunk"?

[wooden wraith]

Uh you can see it that way

Its a concentrated point of player activity

[primal oyster]

in terms of math

what kind of distance between players are we talking about there

do you know if you can have more than 1 region per "nexus"?

the reason im asking is because if a nexus is a chunk, and most of the people will always be playing there, you're better of with a 7950x.
but if you can have players spread out more across your map, a cpu with a good single core but more cores sound better suitable

[wooden wraith]

I plan to spread it out so that there aren't too many nexuses inside a certain distance of eachother

Well, during normal activity, players may be spread out more

[primal oyster]

if it doesn't affect your game, having the same faction with "multiple" nexus would be better for perfomrance since your chances of having more regions increase

[wooden wraith]

The nexuses only really matter during "claiming days"

or "war days"

other then that, general player activity will be lower

and folk will be spread out more

[primal oyster]

one of the kind of "solutions" that you can possibly work is, you can somehow classify "areas" close to the nexus as required for high performance, meaning maybe you can have a lower mobcap or so

[primal oyster]

this way you're def with a good performance and chances of having more than 150 players on a nexus

[wooden wraith]

Thats a good solution, mobs won't really add to the gameplay anyways during those "peak hours"

[primal oyster]

it really depends if they're gonna be doing farms etc there or if it's mostly for combat

you can try to create a mechanic in your game where you kind of force them out of the nexus to grind for resources, that way you use more of the actual Folia goal

therefore e.c = > regions

[wooden wraith]

That is the goal

during the "grace period" or in general when no big events are happening

[primal oyster]

for the CPU, i think a 7950x will do the job there

[wooden wraith]

players will be doing more SMP stuff

[primal oyster]

you should pre-gen your entire map though

[wooden wraith]

Oh def

we are going for a custom map

based on the theme and lore of the event

[primal oyster]

yeah sure thats alright

simulation distance is the same

if you can dynamically modify the simulation distance

you also get more performance too

[wooden wraith]

well generally speaking, mobs won't be such a huge aspect of the gameplay

as there is no goal of going to the ender/nether those will be disabled in its entirety

[primal oyster]

the simulation distance still matters too

since it ticks chunks

most of the "fluid etc logic" is kind of there

if you can reduce those on peak hours without affecting the major of it, then you're good

[wooden wraith]

But with the 300 player cap

will 16 cores be enough(for the dedi)

[primal oyster]

Yeah, a 7950x will do the job

[wooden wraith]

keeping one core for OS

[primal oyster]

you dont really need to run math like that though

your netty threads have to be "somewhat increased" from the basic

and your tick threads still have to be the focus

You need room for ticking more regions even if on peak time you don't have as many

[wooden wraith]

6 cores for ticking?

[primal oyster]

don't go into the route of like "reserving cores"
5 cores for ticking
3 cores for netty

don't do that

That's math that doesn't apply to real-life

[wooden wraith]

I should let folia figure out what to use the cores for

[primal oyster]

it's "basic" but it doesn't work that way exactly

no

don't let folia figure out by itself

it'll not be good

i'll move this to dms

[fair merlin]

You don't have to. You aren't off topic in here

But obviously feel free if that's what you prefer

[primal oyster]

ill doi it here then

@wooden wraith

with 300 players or os it's nice ot have netty at 6 or more if you can, now the part of teh chunk here

if your map is actually pregen and youre not abusing view distance you can have your chunk io at 1 and your workers at 2 or the opposite, you can check the code to see what both do, just make sure youre using NVME and a good one so you get a good low latency on speed meaning fast reads,
make sure you don't use linear formats for reducing disk usage or caching with those thread counts unless you write your own format (ex: https://github.com/DonutNetwork/Blog/blob/main/WORLD.md)

[wooden wraith]

I assume I have to fork folia

[primal oyster]

now the ticking threads, usually people tend to make a simple math here, 1 core = 2 threads and that's what you assign there, this is nice, but be careful with this, the math doesn't apply so much because you're actually parking the threads targetting a specific nano time on the future, so le'ts say you have 33 regions but you got 24 threads, likely some of them will run behind at some point if at least one of your regions is already taking up more performance/resources than the others, and this will screw your MSPT

you don't have to

like I mentioned

[fair merlin]

Why would you have to fork it?

[primal oyster]

if you WANT TO use a format like that then you make sure to read the md i sent because you'll get into latency/performance on loading chunks if you keep the basic linear format with a low thread count, and also extra memory usage for no reason really (you can see details why there)

[fair merlin]

You're probably much better off just using the default format.

Especially for a one-off event.

And especially if you aren't familiar with / haven't used any alternates before.

[primal oyster]

Now, there's something that happens (not sure if it still does.)

it's from the paper chunk system,
it's a task called ChunkLoadTask

this task, is supposedly to run ONLY in io threads, yet it doens't follow this rule exactly on all cases.

so a "performance" patch you can have, which will likely reduce your mspt usage here if players are loading a bunch of chunks most of the times is to have a (isTickThread) and re-route the void schedule() to the IO thread, this will likely avoid you doing IO on the region threads, which will likely save you even spikes too - worth doing because you are not keeping what we call low number of players per region.

[wooden wraith]

Mhh helpful info

[wooden wraith]

Can this be done in a plugin, or do I need to modify folia's source code for that

[primal oyster]

source code.

[fair merlin]

Are you still on older/1.20.4 builds? Or do you have the latest 1.20.6 source?

[primal oyster]

but you first confirm it happens to you

[fair merlin]

You shouldn't need whatever fix that is.

[primal oyster]

nah, I'm on 1.20.2 on DonutSMP

but I heard it happens on 1.20.4+ (some dev told me when I asked)

didn't confirm myself

i will do that when i get to work on the new project im on

maybe ill report that on paper

[fair merlin]

Yeah if Jake is using 1.20.6 source that shouldn't be an issue.

[primal oyster]

so thats been fixed?

[fair merlin]

There's a shitton that's been fixed since 1.20.2

[primal oyster]

IO sync?

[fair merlin]

Among other things.

[primal oyster]

well if thats so then thats awesome

but confirm to be sure 🙂

once its running you cant reload classes hahahaha

[wooden wraith]

Well I am aiming for a 1.21 release

not too sure about the current development cycle

as spigot is taking its neat time coming up with a solution to fix the Material enum without actually fixing it

[wooden wraith]

Wait, you do not perform any restarts?

[primal oyster]

we have our own updating systems

but yes i do restart JVM from time to time

[fair merlin]

Folia doesn't support 1.21 yet. So if you're looking to do this anytime remotely soon you don't want to be on 1.21.

You'll want to stick to 1.20.6 for now.

[wooden wraith]

Well, remotely soon is off the table

as allot of stuff needs to be done still

All I have now, is an almost ported plugin that ran on a Paper 1.19 server for a client who initially did such an event

but since this is my own project this time, and since I am using Folia(Meaning allot of public plugins wont work)

There are allot of gameplay features that need to be coded b4 its done

And ready to officially start

For a fact I only started coding just about 1,5 weeks ago

[primal oyster]

well thats scary

specially for thread safety

im sure youll turn out to be a genius

[wooden wraith]

I am not the only dev

the other organizer who I am doing this with

also has allot of java programming experience on the hood

we both started programming in java for MC like 8 years ago

[primal oyster]

@wooden wraith also, @livid crag mentioned leaf fixed the chunk load task issue

so dont bother on that

[wooden wraith]

Neat

[muted glacier]

What is asyncscheduler and why can't you use bukkitscheduler and what are these commands about?

[primal oyster]

holy bro

you want a movie or what

[inner swift]

1. The async scheduler is for tasks that can happen on a separate thread from the rest of the game
2. Because the BukkitScheduler could interact with global state, since Folia has localized state, this has to be adapted to run in the correct contexts to interact with this state. For example, to interact with an entity, you can use the entity scheduler so that you'll be in the right context (the entity's region thread) to interact with its state
3. https://minecraft.wiki/w/Commands

[primal oyster]

lmao

[muted glacier]

3. Well, do you have the scoreboard command in the regular engine? Is it about the scoreboard itself that you can't have?

[primal oyster]

ill let you answer

[viral stone]

scoreboards are disabled in folia as they're global state

[primal oyster]

!wiki

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[primal oyster]

@muted glacier there some good information on the wiki and details

[muted glacier]

I know, but I didn't know exactly what these commands meant

[muted glacier]

Will this not be changed?

[viral stone]

probably not

[muted glacier]

ok, thanks for your help

[solar relic]

[23:41:09 WARN]: Region Scheduler Thread #2: Did not shut down in time
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at java.base/java.lang.Object.wait0(Native Method)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at java.base/java.lang.Object.wait(Object.java:366)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at java.base/java.lang.Object.wait(Object.java:339)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at Spartan.jar//com.vagdedes.spartan.abstraction.e.a.a(SpartanPlayer.java:587)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at Spartan.jar//com.vagdedes.spartan.utils.minecraft.world.d.H(GroundUtils.java:313)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at Spartan.jar//com.vagdedes.spartan.utils.minecraft.world.d.a(GroundUtils.java:192)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at Spartan.jar//com.vagdedes.spartan.abstraction.e.a.h(SpartanPlayer.java:376)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at Spartan.jar//com.vagdedes.spartan.functionality.i.d.a(MovementProcessing.java:53)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at Spartan.jar//com.vagdedes.spartan.functionality.i.d.a(MovementProcessing.java:39)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at Spartan.jar//com.vagdedes.spartan.listeners.a.a(Shared.java:121)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at Spartan.jar//com.vagdedes.spartan.listeners.a.g.b(Event_Shared.java:41)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at com.destroystokyo.paper.event.executor.MethodHandleEventExecutor.execute(MethodHandleEventExecutor.java:40)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at co.aikar.timings.TimedEventExecutor.execute(TimedEventExecutor.java:77)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at org.bukkit.plugin.RegisteredListener.callEvent(RegisteredListener.java:70)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at io.papermc.paper.plugin.manager.PaperEventManager.callEvent(PaperEventManager.java:54)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at io.papermc.paper.plugin.manager.PaperPluginManagerImpl.callEvent(PaperPluginManagerImpl.java:126)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at org.bukkit.plugin.SimplePluginManager.callEvent(SimplePluginManager.java:615)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at net.minecraft.server.network.ServerGamePacketListenerImpl.handleMovePlayer(ServerGamePacketListenerImpl.java:1624)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at net.minecraft.network.protocol.game.ServerboundMovePlayerPacket.handle(ServerboundMovePlayerPacket.java:29)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at net.minecraft.network.protocol.game.ServerboundMovePlayerPacket$Pos.handle(ServerboundMovePlayerPacket.java:66)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at net.minecraft.network.protocol.PacketUtils.lambda$ensureRunningOnSameThread$1(PacketUtils.java:56)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at net.minecraft.network.protocol.PacketUtils.lambda$ensureRunningOnSameThread$2(PacketUtils.java:102)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.EntityScheduler.executeTick(EntityScheduler.java:173)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.tickServer(MinecraftServer.java:1636)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegions$ConcreteRegionTickHandle.tickRegion(TickRegions.java:407)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler$RegionScheduleHandle.runTick(TickRegionScheduler.java:404)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at ca.spottedleaf.concurrentutil.scheduler.SchedulerThreadPool$TickThreadRunner.run(SchedulerThreadPool.java:525)
[23:41:09 WARN]:        at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:1583)```

how can i solve this issue

[finite hinge]

Uninstall spartan

Or go ask them to fix whatever is going on

[solar relic]

[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.bukkit.folia.FoliaWorldInfoProvider$FoliaChunkInfo.getEntityCounts(FoliaWorldInfoProvider.java:120)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.platform.world.WorldStatisticsProvider.groupIntoRegions(WorldStatisticsProvider.java:108)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.platform.world.WorldStatisticsProvider.lambda$getWorldStatistics$0(WorldStatisticsProvider.java:55)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.HashMap.forEach(HashMap.java:1429)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.platform.world.WorldStatisticsProvider.getWorldStatistics(WorldStatisticsProvider.java:51)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.platform.PlatformStatisticsProvider.getPlatformStatistics(PlatformStatisticsProvider.java:197)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.sampler.AbstractSampler.writeMetadataToProto(AbstractSampler.java:196)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.sampler.async.AsyncSampler.toProto(AsyncSampler.java:224)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.ws.ViewerSocket.processWindowRotate(ViewerSocket.java:117)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.sampler.AbstractSampler.lambda$processWindowRotate$0(AbstractSampler.java:152)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.CopyOnWriteArrayList.bulkRemove(CopyOnWriteArrayList.java:925)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.CopyOnWriteArrayList.bulkRemove(CopyOnWriteArrayList.java:917)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.CopyOnWriteArrayList.removeIf(CopyOnWriteArrayList.java:900)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.sampler.AbstractSampler.processWindowRotate(AbstractSampler.java:147)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.common.sampler.async.AsyncSampler.lambda$rotateProfilerJob$0(AsyncSampler.java:153)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.Executors$RunnableAdapter.call(Executors.java:572)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.FutureTask.run(FutureTask.java:317)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor$ScheduledFutureTask.run(ScheduledThreadPoolExecutor.java:304)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:1144)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(ThreadPoolExecutor.java:642)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:1583)
[23:47:18 WARN]: Caused by: java.util.concurrent.TimeoutException
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.CompletableFuture.timedGet(CompletableFuture.java:1960)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at java.base/java.util.concurrent.CompletableFuture.get(CompletableFuture.java:2095)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        at spark-1.10.60-folia.jar//me.lucko.spark.bukkit.folia.FoliaWorldInfoProvider$FoliaChunkInfo.getEntityCounts(FoliaWorldInfoProvider.java:113)
[23:47:18 WARN]:        ... 20 more```

spark gives this error

and i am getting time out after 30-60 seconds

[inner swift]

We can't fix plugin issues

[solar relic]

i know : )

i asked for just to make sure it is a plugin issue

[fair merlin]

The error is a plugin error, so yes.

[opal spoke]

i check the spark and there are no region shown entity

[livid crag]

I have a feeling that you don’t know how to read the report. Can you share the actual report than a screenshot?

[opal spoke]

i send u through DM

[livid crag]

We do not do DM support here, it looks like you aint even using our software and we also dont support cracked server.

[opal spoke]

okay

[abstract trellis]

Is there any way to install datapacks?

I downloaded it but can't use the function command

Is there any way to use it?

[wooden wraith]

Are the worldedit and worldguard folia forks functional

?

Or are they not thread safe

[thorny ivy]

It didn’t work with Folia, see the README for the list of not working with Folia things.

[thorny ivy]

Have you tried it ? It’s probably the best way to know.

[wooden wraith]

Well they technically do not fail

World edit did work to an extent

But it working, doesn’t mean its stable

[thorny ivy]

If you don't trust it look at the code to convince yourself or don't use it.

[fierce knot]

New_Paste_1.txt by @latent brook: https://pastes.dev/7DcaKSkm3O

[latent brook]

please help

[viral stone]

This channel is for help with folia

for support with puffer, you'd need to use their discord

[wooden wraith]

Are aikars flags recommended for folia?

[inner swift]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

You can try, but ultimately you'll have to watch your GC performance and adjust

Other garbage collectors than G1 may make sense

[pseudo meadow]

how do you know if bukkit plugins will be compatible?

[fair merlin]

They have to specifically be built for Folia support.

So if they don't say they're compatible, they aren't.

[pseudo meadow]

even ones which dont directly interact with regions? i could understand crates or something but what about /spawn or something similar?

[fair merlin]

They have to be built to work on Folia, so they won't run by default, no.

[naive fable]

Crates would be something which would work with little modifications, /spawn would requrie more work

[knotty egret]

java.lang.NullPointerException: Cannot read field "captureTreeGeneration" because the return value of "net.minecraft.world.level.Level.getCurrentWorldData()" is null What exactly could be causing this error?

[viral stone]

Accessing world state outside of the tick threads

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @next crater: https://pastes.dev/pLDUrSOWBN

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @next crater: https://pastes.dev/zq46zwKmqS

[little sable]

clone repo C:\

[viral stone]

use WSL, windows is cursed

[inner swift]

I wouldn't do special characters in the path

C:\Users\Артём\Folia

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @next crater: https://pastes.dev/Ei9iprQjCh

[viral stone]

https://github.com/microsoft/winget-cli/issues/4507

like, different tooling, but, first result for googling that garbled output

[clever magnet]

Trying to use local-built folia-api.jar as dependency in gradle project. The following error occurs. With online repository everything works fine. How to fix this?

[carmine brook]

Try adding mavenlocal repo

[clever magnet]

like this? doesn't work 😦

[hexed ice]

you can publish your own dev bundle to your maven local if you made any changes that you want to use

[clever magnet]

oh, ok. ty

[calm fable]

so now that paper 1.21 is out can we expect 1.21 folia within a month or so?

[hexed ice]

you can expect it eventually

[loud crescent]

paper is not stable yet and there is no eta for folia

[calm fable]

so youre saying theres a chance
😄 awesome

[crude moat]

hey we are thinking of developing our relaunch of our RP server on Folia, because of the better world handling and not everything being on one thread.
Before doing that I would like to just double check if Folia would benefit us:

We have a fairly big map: 500x500 blocks and it could expand.
We use lots of armorstands for vehicles and stuff like custom furniture etc.
Most of our plugins are custom (except stuff like worldedit, worldguard)
Our current player count is peeking at about 60 and we expect that to increase once we have the big relaunch

[calm fable]

500 x 500 would be just 1 region?

[crude moat]

it groups 1,024 chunks in one region?

[arctic tapir]

they're not minecraft regions

[calm fable]

1 region is roughly 2048x2048 blocks i believe

threaded region no?

[wicked mantle]

Folia regions have no set size

[viral stone]

the default settings generally require around 1.5k blocks between players to hopefully form seperate regions

[crude moat]

ah okay so would we have a big benefit from using folia then? since that would not happen on our map

[wicked mantle]

You'd have no benefit

Since you'd most likely only have 1 region

[fossil vigil]

500x500 isnt that big...

[crude moat]

but for lets say an SMP with unlimited world size it would have a decent benefit I am assuming?

[arctic tapir]

depends on how close players are to each other

[wicked mantle]

If the players are spread out, yeah.

[crude moat]

enough to cause us issues haha

[crude moat]

gotcha coolio, thanks for explaining o7

[loud crescent]

surely you mean 500x500 chunks?

500 blocks is tiny

[crude moat]

no, lemme double check how big it actually is. uno momento

[finite hinge]

500x500 doesn't sound that weird for an RP server, it'd be like a city build or something

Paper would run it faster than Folia though

[loud crescent]

i guess but that is like 30 chunks idk

i dont see it

[primal oyster]

500 blocks os nothing 💀

[crude moat]

okay so I was misinformed, its actually 1700x1700 +/- a bit

[finite hinge]

Still not enough, that's going to be 1 region so Folia will just be a slower less functional Paper

[loud crescent]

Lots of armor stands etc shouldn't put huge strain on the server

client might have a rough time tho

[primal oyster]

thats very very very low bro

there's another experimental software called shreddedpaper, try that

you're on your own.

[loud crescent]

no

dont use that

see if you actually have perm problems before thinking about this anymore

[arctic tapir]

yes

LuckPerms

[loud crescent]

do some research 😭

this took me 10s to find

https://github.com/LuckPerms/LuckPerms/pull/3615
https://ci.lucko.me/job/LuckPerms-Folia/

it's still experimental and they're posting updates about it in their discord when there are updates

[primal oyster]

why would he not try it

literally

whats the point of saying dont use that

[loud crescent]

not sure how to say it in a nice way but multipaper is just not very good!

he can use it if he wants, but there's no support here and i personally wouldn't recommend it

free world tho i dont care ^_^

[primal oyster]

yeah

I tried it and shredded paper is not multipaper but sure

this isnt about it it was just a suggestion

his event he does what he wants

im gone

[loud crescent]

It's the same thing as far as I know, just the 1.20.6 version

[arctic tapir]

this isn’t really the place to recommend random software

[naive fable]

When making servers with special reqirements its not important that the solution is good, but that is works. But yes multipaper is kinda hacky

[arctic tapir]

“kinda”

[loud crescent]

[naive fable]

well it does run

Most of the time

[primal oyster]

can't expect scalable software to work out of the box when 0.0001% of the actual community will use it.

[loud crescent]

It's just not made very well and plugin incompatibilities are much harder to see, there's no explicit compatibility like on folia and they just shim the methods with very strange behaviour

[primal oyster]

it's all a matter of how much you want to use it and how far you're willing to go

you can't expect a non-fully funded scalable software on minecraft to be open source and still have a huge documentation about everything unless whoever is doing plans on making it a big thing

it's just how life is.

[loud crescent]

sure, but just because they're doing their best doesn't mean it should be recommended :')

[primal oyster]

well if someone asks for experimental software othat they can use on specific projects and folia doesnt fit

ill always recommend what i think its a worth shot

#general - like everyone wants, here isnt a place for it anymore

but its over

@crude moat folia isn't for you if your event will be less than 3-5k blocks and well spread, you're likely still not gonna benefit with this setup as well, regions have merging functions and view distance, bit shifting here takes place, you're better off running raw paper at this

[zinc vortex]

I'm trying my best, can you recommend me

[hybrid shore]

No

[livid crag]

The topic has already be dead. Let’s keep this channel about Folia.

[solar relic]

how much player can i contain in a single region with a 5900x

with 20 TPS

[arctic tapir]

You'll need to do your own testing

[inner swift]

Up to some less than Paper

Potentially getting smaller as you get more regions,, it highly depends

[pseudo meadow]

what do you use for permission and chat management in fiola?

[loud crescent]

luckperms for perms
#folia-help message

and i believe carbonchat has a folia support

[mystic furnace]

what does the grid-exponent do bc i tried experimenting with math to gain the min amount of chunks per thread but after some time the exponent didnt do what it should be doing or im understanding something wrong with this

and yes i also changed world sizes bc i thought the grid was relative to the world size

[primal oyster]

What the

[viral stone]

higher numbers mean more distance is required between players iirc

[primal oyster]

Are you crazy

Yeah

[mystic furnace]

like
World Size: 25000 (in server.properties)
exponent: 14

expected: the world is split so that a region is about 2,3 chunks ig

[primal oyster]

Grid exponent does >> exponent

That's like

I don't even know how many there

[viral stone]

regions are dynamicically sized and placed

[primal oyster]

That's 2^14 ?

For a single region

[viral stone]

it doesn't split the world up

please read the readme

[mystic furnace]

oh so thats the region size

mb

[primal oyster]

No

It doesn't work like that

Region merges are determined by sections

The math of a section works with chunk x and z and bit shifting

The grid exponent is used for the bit shifting

It's >>

vanilla region formats use >> 5

That's 1024 entries

If you make the exponent 14 that's crazy huge

[mystic furnace]

so there is no way to like set a grid over the world and say that amount x of regions will be ticked by y amount of threads

[primal oyster]

No

[mystic furnace]

ah got it

[primal oyster]

There isn't by default

It's all dynamic

[finite hinge]

X amount of regions will be ticked by Y amount of threads, sure

You just don't get to control X

[primal oyster]

No grid

[finite hinge]

Or, well, you can influence it some with grid-exponent and game design

[mystic furnace]

will there be something in the future to manually set it to like play around and test stuff?

[finite hinge]

No

[mystic furnace]

mh

[viral stone]

Such a design breaks how folia works

[finite hinge]

You should read the rules of regions

[viral stone]

^^

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[viral stone]

the entire point is that regions do not have to deal with cross-interaction

[finite hinge]

click on "regionizing logic" in there, it explains why that question makes no sense

[mystic furnace]

i wanted to like force it to use multiple regions in this scenario instead of merge it into one

thats where i got confused bc of my testing

[finite hinge]

You can't block regions from merging, that's why I said you misunderstood the fundamentals of how folia works

Blocking them from merging would immediately cause a crash

[mystic furnace]

So if entities are far away from each other if will use 2 regions instead of 1 correct? (or like more)

And the exponent tells it how far away the entities have to be to get a seperate region?

[finite hinge]

More or less, yeah

[mystic furnace]

So is the exponent expressed as an amount of chunks or blocks or a different thing bc i cant think of it as how it uses a plain number to determine a distance

bc it has to be something to be used in a expression

[finite hinge]

With the default setup if a player has no other player (or spawn, or a chunk loader, etc) within ~900 blocks of them they get their own region

[mystic furnace]

default is 2 correct?

[finite hinge]

grid exponent is the amount to shift in a rightward shift operation

Default is 2, yeah

[mystic furnace]

so it does not directly increase the distance or what does it mean (its difficult to understand bc its not my main language xd im sorry)

[viral stone]

it tweaks an aspect of the math which is used to determine how a region is grouped

[finite hinge]

Increasing the exponent makes regions larger, not smaller

It's already as small as it can go

[mystic furnace]

so as an example if i spawn 1k entites on platforms that are each 1k blocks away from eachother, they will all be in a seperate region?

and then all regions are split among the set thread amount ig

[finite hinge]

Entities don't load chunks so no, not really

It's about players, mainly

If you have entities on platforms 1k blocks from each other but have a player sitting in the middle 500 blocks from each they'll be in the same region because the player dragged them together via chunk loading

[mystic furnace]

i mean if i would forceload the chunks ofc

there will be 1 player on each plattform too and nothing in between

[viral stone]

afaik it would be expected that those would be in different regions

[mystic furnace]

so it is garanteed ther is void between the platforms

[finite hinge]

It someone flies between them they'll merge and when that person leaves they probably wouldn't split back apart

You have to be further apart to split than you needed to be to merge

[mystic furnace]

no flying

trapped players xd

[finite hinge]

I'm just explaining the logic

[mystic furnace]

ik

[finite hinge]

Since you apparently won't read the link I gave earlier which answers these questions 😛

[mystic furnace]

u said 900 blocks

[finite hinge]

I don't want to do all the math for how you end up with about 900 blocks

It's based on the grid exponent and the regionizer logic

[mystic furnace]

i mean i will split the platforms about 3k blocks to be sure but u know what i mean

so it is garanteed to be seperated

thats the impotant part for this xd

btw can one thread be used in more regions and just be slower (bc of more load) or will it not work?

[viral stone]

yes

[mystic furnace]

ty

[mystic furnace]

but if the chunks are loaded, entities can also be in separate regions or is the thing only about players? Sorry if i didnt get that the first time

[viral stone]

it's based on chunks

though, players are generally the only thing expected to be holding chunks

[mystic furnace]

thank you

but if a region is only ticked by one thread. why is it so that in the overworld i can only have about 4k entiteswith 100% util before tps break down and in the end about 6k with also never reaching 100% util? is this just because of the void or how is this possible

[finite hinge]

Different entities cost different amounts of CPU time

And their cost will somewhat be based on the terrain around them (pathfinding)

And the overworld has blocks ticking and such usually too

[mystic furnace]

then this difference is crazy high if it changes from 4k with 13TPS to 5,8K with 20TPS

[viral stone]

use a sampler

we cannot tell you

[mystic furnace]

yea i will ty

[tawdry gull]

Paper 1.21 is still experimental due to following reasons:

1. Several unapplied performance patches
2. Waiting on anticipated experimental changes from Spigot
   Please subscribe to #announcement channel and wait patiently for updates!

There is no stable ETA

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

If you do decide to test the experimental builds, please make frequent backups.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[proper saffron]

Hello, just a short question, do you know if plugins like ViaRewind or ViaBackwards work with Folia?

[fair merlin]

For plugin compatibility it's best to check with plugin authors.

[proper saffron]

yeah that makes sense, mb

[grizzled karma]

I'm wondering is there some way to get region's chunks exactly?

[viral stone]

the concept of regions is not exposed in the API

outside of iterating the loaded chunk list, if that's accessible

[idle furnace]

You might have a lag machine there

[mystic furnace]

its an empty test server with only me

[idle furnace]

😲

A Farm then?

[tawdry gull]

Paper 1.21 is still experimental due to following reasons:

1. Several unapplied performance patches
2. Waiting on anticipated experimental changes from Spigot
   Please subscribe to #announcement channel and wait patiently for updates!

There is no stable ETA

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

If you do decide to test the experimental builds, please make frequent backups.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[simple tundra]

Just out of curiosity The disabled commands in folia are actually disabled features right? like there is no data packs?

[primal oyster]

No

They're still there

Most of them at least

It's the commands that aren't

Scoreboard and bossbar ik for fact it usnt

Reload shouldn't be used already anyways

And the team stuff isn't too

the world order can be done with API

Scoreboard can b done with packets

The functions at least for these two are there working

Scoreboard not so much but you can use something like fast board

[simple tundra]

so will scoreboard plugins break

[wet arch]

plugins have to specifically flag that they are folia compatible for them to load

[tiny summit]

it says in the github readme that every scoreboad things are broken

[viral coral]

scoreboard API is broken

scoreboard plugins that use packets for it will be fine

[tawdry gull]

Paper 1.21 is still experimental due to following reasons:

1. Several unapplied performance patches
2. Waiting on anticipated experimental changes from Spigot
   Please subscribe to #announcement channel and wait patiently for updates!

There is no stable ETA

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

If you do decide to test the experimental builds, please make frequent backups.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[lethal igloo]

hey, i cloned folia on the github app, then after that I went to cmd and i did cd C:users on cmd, then i tried to compress then it fails, so i download git, now it says this error

[daring nimbus]

You must have git installed and available in your PATH in order to use paperweight

make sure Git is installed (not Github). If Windows, you may need to restart after installing git

[lethal igloo]

alright

[finite hinge]

Also put it in C:\Folia otherwise the patcher will fail because windows path limits are too small

[willow moth]

Hi, when could you expect that 1.21 will be supported for folia?

[viral stone]

between now and the heat death of the universe

[fiery bobcat]

can i use this in folia?

https://hangar.papermc.io/GriefPrevention/GriefPrevention

[viral stone]

if it's not marked as supporting folia on their resource page, probably not

[fiery bobcat]

So are there any territorial plug-ins that support folia?

[livid crag]

That's on you to search if you decide to use Folia

most big server has their own resource to make custom plugins for it.

[fiery bobcat]

thanks for help~

[obtuse basin]

1.20.6 released a while after paper has become stable

[willow moth]

ok thx

[plain shuttle]

Very nice to hear that!

[pseudo meadow]

how can i execute for every player on the server in fiola? or do i have to do it by each region?

[idle furnace]

Do a loop on online players, and depending on what you want to do, it.may be required to use the player shcheduler

[young smelt]

How much of an uplift in performance can i except from going to paper to folia? Im currently running paper 1.21 on a 28 core xeon server and its not running great. Will folia run much better on server hardware?

[inner swift]

Well, note that Paper plugins aren't compatible with Folia, unless the author explicitly made a version for it

It depends on your player spread, if you have many well separated groups of people so that regions have low load, you could benefit from it

Separated as in, if two players are less than <900 blocks away from each other, they will be in the same region (though you should leave good headroom for freedom of movement)

[pseudo meadow]

how do long range dog tps work with folia?

[bold osprey]

try and see, it's either they don't see their owner if it's in another region, or it teleports in async (same as Entity#teleportAsync)

[tawdry gull]

https://docs.papermc.io/paper/aikars-flags

[tepid bronze]

do Aikars flags also work for folia?

[solar relic]

yes

[tepid bronze]

aight

[twin spindle]

Hi, if I has r9 7950x, how much I need give server?
threads or core?

[solar relic]

as much as you can

[twin spindle]

like 20?

[twin spindle]

I mean about core or threads

[solar relic]

as i said as much as you can

[twin spindle]

ok, so folia work with threads of cpu?

[solar relic]

it uses cores not threads

[twin spindle]

so I can allocate all 16 core?

[solar relic]

you can

[pseudo meadow]

if a folia region crashes will the whole server crash?

[tepid bronze]

Honestly, that is an interesting question

You mean complete hard crash?

[pseudo meadow]

as in frozen for over two minutes or so (i have no idea if folia would kill the thread from not being responsive atp)

how does folia handle desyncs or lag between regions as well?

[finite hinge]

Folia itself won't crash at first but as regions try to merge with that one they'll go down and any plugin that tries to wait for something to run in that region will stall so eventually the server will be running but not usable

Although I think when it tries to merge with a dead one it might just kill the server?

[pseudo meadow]

well isnt that nice

[livid crag]

The lagging region will run at slower relative time compare to a normal region

[finite hinge]

A region running at 5 tps won't bother the rest of the server at all

Just, again, when another region gets merged in to that one it'll slow down too and any tasks running in that region's context will run less often

[pseudo meadow]

what do you mean merged? my only guess is when an region is unloaded it gets merged into the "main" thread or something?

[finite hinge]

When two regions are within a certain distance of each other they become 1 larger region

[pseudo meadow]

ah

thanks

[pseudo meadow]

what should i use for the worldborder if folia doesnt have a worldborder?

[loud crescent]

I believe chunky border supports folia

but please if you're going to use folia learn how to do research

folia is really really not aimed at the average user

[pseudo meadow]

thanks for the concern

is there a standard flags list for folia? will aikars flags work? or do they matter at all?

[loud crescent]

you can use aikar flags

[pseudo meadow]

so something like this?

java -Xms40000M -Xmx40000M -XX:+AlwaysPreTouch -XX:+DisableExplicitGC -XX:ConcGCThreads=4 -XX:+ParallelRefProcEnabled -XX:+PerfDisableSharedMem -XX:+UnlockExperimentalVMOptions -XX:+UseG1GC -XX:G1HeapRegionSize=8M -XX:G1HeapWastePercent=5 -XX:G1MaxNewSizePercent=40 -XX:G1MixedGCCountTarget=4 -XX:G1MixedGCLiveThresholdPercent=90 -XX:G1NewSizePercent=30 -XX:G1RSetUpdatingPauseTimePercent=5 -XX:G1ReservePercent=20 -XX:InitiatingHeapOccupancyPercent=15 -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=200 -XX:MaxTenuringThreshold=1 -XX:SurvivorRatio=32 -Dusing.aikars.flags=https://mcflags.emc.gs -Daikars.new.flags=true -jar {{SERVER_JARFILE}} nogui

no clue if i should be removing anything from this or what i should actually set the concurrent gc thread count to

[inner swift]

Monitor your GC stats, look into what the different flags do, as well as different GCs

You'll have to tailor it to your server's needs if it doesn't work

[loud crescent]

papers flag docs have an explanation of what they do

[cloud jetty]

Why is the TPS small and idle in timings? (https://spark.lucko.me/ZBbymlFpIU)

[viral coral]

this is not folia

ask luminol

• offline mode

[cloud jetty]

🫣

Same thing on folia

[tawdry gull]

It appears that you are running an offline-mode server. We, as a community, do not provide support for setups that bypass Mojang's authentication. You are on your own to solve any issues that arise.

[loud crescent]

damn u switched to folia and re profiled quickly

[lucid thistle]

Is there any way of having additional worlds (non-overworld, end or nether) in Folia - particularly any stock plugins that handle this?

[inner swift]

The supported way is datapack dimensions

The unsupported one, if it still works, the MoreFoWorlds plugin, or something along these lines

[tepid bronze]

Honestly, I see a wide open marked for new plugins just for Folia

[cloud jetty]

Why is the TPS small and idle (parking) in timings? (https://spark.lucko.me/iSSY6h69pZ)

[tepid bronze]

@cloud jetty might be because of the multiple thousands of item frames and armor stands

[inner swift]

You've already been told your server is not supported

[tepid bronze]

Why is that?

[inner swift]

Offline mode, they also switched from a fork to get support

[marsh maple]

(6695a3f72597e56e6a6b7682) // @cloud jetty (@wattguy / 326322535430094858) has been warned by @jagged ether (451779815415218177)
Reason: We do not support offline mode

[tepid bronze]

offline mode with bungee though? Or can you use online more on bungeecord?

Never used bungee previously

[jagged ether]

Spark knows whether you actually authenticate or don't

or at least infers from configs

[inner swift]

Yeah, if you see offline mode in Spark it's safe to say auth is disabled

[tepid bronze]

Yeah uh, but they run on a BungeeCord network. If that works the same way as Velocity, then it still might go through an online-mode proxy? Or is that not how bungee works?

[jagged ether]

#general

[desert sleet]

Hi, does folia really use most cores to activate other chunks? Or just one core per world

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[inner swift]

In general, it'll use up to a number of threads if you have enough regions
Regions aren't fixed in size, they get created if players are far apart enough

Had to edit, was badly written

[covert topaz]

I am really looking forward to the folia core of the 1.21 game version

[granite harbor]

I switched the world from paper 1.20.02 to folia and it's like this, how can I fix it, thank you very much

[livid crag]

Your datapack is likely not compatisble to folia due to how it is made

[primal oyster]

Just wait

Don't open an issue

[desert sleet]

so meaning its not per world but per region?? folia is too op that should exist in aternos fr

[hybrid shore]

No, it should not

Read about folia and you will know why

[unkempt harbor]

/aternos/ kekw

[timid grotto]

aint no way aternos is giving people adequate hardware for folia for free

[tepid bronze]

I mean... you can technically run Folia on a 4 core cpu

Just saying

If it makes a lot of sense, that is a different question.

[timid grotto]

you can run it on a 1 core cpu

but if your cpu isnt good enough then it will run worse than paper

[lucid thistle]

btw was looking for benchmarks but don't seem to exist, are modern 8 core or 12 core CPUs feasible for a folia server with player counts of 100 to 400 players, in a SMP world. Assume sensible spacing

I know this is not the official line so looking to see if anyone has tried it out

[naive fable]

With propper configs that would be possible

[fleet rock]

i tried compiled folia, but not work

[arctic tapir]

full log

[rustic lava]

try reinstalling git and do git config --global core.longpaths true

had same issue

[tulip swift]

hello is there tutorial for making bukkit plugins work on folia?

[twin spindle]

all okey with tps?

what is better?

  grid-exponent: 4
  threads: 16```
for ``view-distance: 16`` and ``simulation-distance: 10``

[daring nimbus]

thats not something a tutorial can answer, as the way to do that is different for each and every plugin. You have to understand how Folia uses multiple threads, and then adapt your plugin accordingly

[desert sleet]

Cant wait for folia 1.21

[frigid sleet]

yeah

[fossil vigil]

@viral coral

oh there it goes

[hardy ledge]

You can't use Folia with mods right?

[inner swift]

You indeed can't

[young burrow]

amy idea when 1.21 is coming out

[arctic tapir]

no

[young burrow]

ill pay cash to expedite

[arctic tapir]

considering paper 1.21 isn’t even out of snapshot

lol

[young burrow]

oh ok