folia-help

[viral stone]

incremental backups have been a thing for a looong time

[delicate lichen]

Is there a way to delete those files that are causing the problem and how to find them?

[viral stone]

the only file busted in that error is your level.dat

[terse summit]

btw is folia breaking vanilla parity or is it at the same state as paper or even better

[viral stone]

generally aims to be the same state as paper

just, you might have some issues due to stuff using global state being removed

i.e. datapacks

otherwise, it's still a fork of paper which is based on spigot and spigots fork of craftbukkit

[terse summit]

ik

i will use it just for a smp

when 1.21 releases on folia

probably will take a bit

[finite hinge]

It definitely breaks vanilla compat more than Paper

[terse summit]

yy

[finite hinge]

But mostly just because scoreboards, command blocks, datapack functions, etc don't work

[terse summit]

well i dont use all of that on a full survival server anyway

so

mob spawning would be more near vanilla compared to paper right

since mob spawning is region dependent

[viral stone]

most of the issues with mob spawning are generally down to the fact that it's on a server and not single player

[terse summit]

ye sure

[viral stone]

we just add a system, per player mob spawning, to help balance that out

idk if folia retains that patch or not

[terse summit]

did anyone try building raid farms on folia already ?

should work same i guess

[livid crag]

Raid farm works on paper already so no reason for it to break on folia

[cosmic pawn]

Whats the best claim plugin for folia? Realising I'm gonna have to switch from GriefPrevention but want to make sure that I pick the right plugin

[void elbow]

Very strange. I made a world map /worldborder set 6000 (that is, a map of 3000x3000 blocks), then I specified /gamerule spawnradius 3000. Then I threw bots with a delay of 30 seconds and my TPS dropped to 15 with 100 bots that just stand and sometimes die and appear again.

Why can't Folia withstand 100 online bots at 20 tps with a 3000x3000 map?

My VDS
Intel Core i9-12900K (8 core)
RAM: 64GB

For some reason, when the map is 3000x3000, all the bots are in one region, although the /gamerule spawnradius rule works from 0 to 3000 blocks and the bots are scattered across the map.

[livid crag]

that's a very small world. running /tps should show that you are unlikely to have many regions.

[void elbow]

This 50 players online

Map 10 000x10 000

It lags a lot when /gamerule spawnRadius 10,000 is enabled

[arctic tapir]

only 2 cores

[void elbow]

what

[arctic tapir]

also what tf do you need a 10k spawn radius for

[void elbow]

How to allocate more damn cores?

[void elbow]

I need new players to spawn in different regions, it's like /rtp when they appear in the world

How to allocate more cores to the server? I have a processor with 8 cores

[arctic tapir]

config I believe? but the recommended minimum is 16

[void elbow]

Where to select kernels?

In what config?

this?

grid exponent need?

found thank

If I create a 3000x3000 map will it be divided into regions between 300 players?

Or is it better to create a map of 10,000x10,000 blocks at once?

  grid-exponent: 2
  threads: 5```
and
```chunk-system:
  gen-parallelism: default
  io-threads: 4
  worker-threads: 3```

yes?

[fair merlin]

You need way more than 8 cores for 300 players.

[void elbow]

I would like to check 150 online

[fair merlin]

You almost certainly need more than 8 cores for 150 players

You can't even run 100 players on Paper with only 8 cores.

[void elbow]

How so?

You are funny

[fair merlin]

You should also probably using some sort of teleport plugin rather than using that high of a spawn radius gamerule.

[void elbow]

But seriously

[fair merlin]

I am being serious.

[void elbow]

My Forge server with the Create mod keeps 100-120 online at 13-15 tps

Folia is the same paper, there is nothing to load there

[fair merlin]

It is not the same as Paper.

[void elbow]

Logically, 1 core = 80 online

[fair merlin]

Unfortunately it just doesn't work like that.

[void elbow]

Why don't you recommend using /gamerule? is it buggy?

[fair merlin]

You absolutely cannot get 80 people to run on Paper on a single core.

[void elbow]

Why? People have vanilla servers on Paper or Purpur cores and there they easily keep up to 100 online at 20 tps

[fair merlin]

The people running 100 players at 20tps have way more than 1 core.

[void elbow]

So the paper/purpur kernel is a single threaded kernel.

[fair merlin]

No.

If it were then I wouldn't have said you need more than 1 CPU core to run 100 players on Paper.

[void elbow]

I have a Forge server on one core and I keep more than 100+ online at 15-18 tps. So this is with mods and without performance patches!

[fair merlin]

That isn't particularly relevant.

[void elbow]

Stop making fun of me

[fair merlin]

I am not making fun of you, I am trying to explain this to you.

In short:

You need more cores (16+) and a larger map if you want to run 150-300 players on Folia.

[void elbow]

I know that you are joking and kidding, the paper and purpur core can easily withstand 100 online at 20 tps, when it was the Tuinity core, I was able to withstand 200 online at 20 tps on it.

[void elbow]

Okay, here I believe you

[fair merlin]

I am not joking or kidding. I'm not sure why you keep insisting that I am.

You can run a Paper server with 100 people.

You cannot run a Paper server with 100 people and only 1 CPU core.

[void elbow]

A question. If I make a map of 3000x3000 blocks, can I run 300 online there?

[fair merlin]

1 CPU core does not equal 80 players.

No.

That's too small of a map.

[void elbow]

The regions won't be highlighted, right?

[fair merlin]

I mean, possibly. You'd need a lot of CPU cores and they'd merge and things would be slow.

[void elbow]

1 region for 1 core = 1000 blocks from players

That is, I can create a 3000x3000 card and allocate 8-16 cores to it and there can be 300 online at 20 tps, right?

[fair merlin]

No, I think you aren't understanding correctly.

A 3,000 x 3,000 map would be like 3 players and 3 CPU cores (oversimplified)

[void elbow]

aa okay

[fair merlin]

If they got too close the Folia regions would merge and you'd just have one region.

[void elbow]

1000x1000 - 1 CPU

[fair merlin]

That's why you want a very large map and players spread out.

[void elbow]

10 000x10 000 - 10 CPU

[fair merlin]

But you ALSO need cores for other stuff, like netty and things.

So it's not just blocks==CPU cores

[void elbow]

hm

map 4000x4000
1 region 1000x1000

total: 4 regions - 4 CPU

Okay, I understand that

[fair merlin]

This only applies if the players are in the further corner of those regions.

If they get too close together then they won't be 1000 blocks apart anymore and the regions will combine.

[fair merlin]

You want them further than 1000 blocks apart to prevent that. Much further if possible.

[void elbow]

this settings bro

What do the first settings mean?

grid-exponent and threads

And is it necessary to specify chunk-system? or can I leave it at -1?

[fair merlin]

I would recommend reading all of the available documentation about Folia

[fair merlin]

```The region shift is configurable under grid-exponent, which
allows setting the region shift to any value in [0, 31]. Note
that values above 6 affect the lock shift, as the lock shift
currently is computed as max(ticket shift = 6, region shift).
The shift is left configurable for now as the lower default
shift of 2 may have negative performance impacts.

The default region shift has been adjusted to 2 from 4, and
the empty chunk buffer has been reduced to 8 from 16. These
changes reduce, but do not eliminate, player spread
requirements. The previous block range was around ~1500 blocks
at VD = 10, but is now closer to ~900 blocks at VD = 10. This
roughly reduces the area that each player uses in the regioniser
by 2.5x.```

I have to go. Good luck.

[void elbow]

hmm ok thank

[delicate lichen]

As I understand it, in theory, it is possible to have more than 1000 players on 1 server? with a uniform or so distribution, on some Ryzen epic 128 or 192 cores

[livid crag]

That’s exactly what we’ve done on a test event https://cubxity.dev/blog/folia-test-june-2023

[delicate lichen]

By the way, I already read this))

[marsh maple]

(66753261bb3b0c6d8b8102f5) // @inland latch (@mod18990 / 1246444734529011713) has been banned by @livid crag (177150983258767360)
Reason: crypto scam

[keen carbon]

So, if Folia splits a region in 1500 blocks, does it mean that when we do this, the number of splits will decrease to 900 blocks?

[inner swift]

Eh

Don't know of a good way to explain this, but imagine each player has a 900 block half-length square that moves with them (so the player is the center)

Every player has these, once two players get close in a way these square overlaps, the two will merge into just 1 region

[gloomy vault]

It's folia 1.21 rn?

[inner swift]

You can make that square bigger or smaller

[arctic tapir]

no

[gloomy vault]

Any idea if it will be soon or no idea?

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[arctic tapir]

considering paper isn't even out of experimental and is missing some big patches, it's going to be a while

[small mauve]

Is there a good WorldBorder plugin for Folia?

Having trouble finding one

[arctic tapir]

read 4 messages up

or you delete your message

[hexed ice]

chunkyborder is quite good

[cosmic pawn]

Anyone know a good autobroadcast plugin compatible with folia?

[small mauve]

Pushed 191 people today. Had a mishap. Accidentally left my deditated ram at 8GB 🤣

[inner swift]

What hardware?

[small mauve]

Ryzen 9 7950X3D
100GB+ of RAM.
1.9TB nvme ssd

My entities are a little wack but it's purring along.

Going to definitely clean up tomorrow now that I have a lot more data on what's going on

[placid birch]

Is folia 1.21 released?

[obtuse basin]

No

[charred quarry]

What is the current state of folia?
Like how unstable is it?
Is there something like a rough predication when production ready build can be produced?

[paper siren]

unstability can't really be measured well

you can look into the open issues

[manic quarry]

that's enough dedicated wam to work with ;)

[thorny ivy]

It’s stable enough to have big server running on Folia without crash.
The most complicated part is to find compatible plugins.

[small mauve]

It's been pretty stable

For me at least

Again my entities are out of wack

[small mauve]

The garbage collector would like to have a chat with you lol.

[charred quarry]

Thanks a lot for clarification

[cosmic pawn]

Is it just me or does the restart command not work with Folia?

[viral stone]

wouldn't surprise me if he disabled it

[plush hearth]

folia, i'm having a problem with pearl stasis chambers

they work per se

but the pearl just staright up vanishes after a while

do you guys know whats up with that

[tawdry gull]

Looking to re-enable patched Vanilla exploits such as TNT/sand/string duping or bedrock breaking? Click here for more information.

[viral stone]

or, well, not sure about "just vanishes"

[plush hearth]

oh i did enable them in the unsupported settings

i should've specified

[fair merlin]

“Supported settings” generally means “if things aren’t working, good luck, because this isn’t supported”

[plush hearth]

i was just asking if anyone knew

turns out, just a skill issue on my part

modern minecraft has a gamerule to delete enderpearls on death

[void elbow]

I don’t understand why the processor on Folia is used so much with 150+ online.

514% is tough. This is vanilla Minecraft, there’s nothing to load there. I have a mod server on Fabric + VMP + Lithium + ServerCore on one core that can accommodate 150 players at 20 tps

What is the problem with Folia, it is ordinary paper that does not provide any load at all. Logically, 1 region should comfortably accommodate 100-150 players without lags.

[carmine brook]

The cpu is there to be used

And bots just existing won't have as big of an effect as actual players playing, loading chunks, having hundreds of animals...

[livid crag]

You don’t seem to have basic understanding of how Minecraft works and the test you’ve done is pretty much useless. If you want real world stress test, you can read this detail writeup of proper test done with Paper team involved https://cubxity.dev/blog/folia-test-june-2023

[small mauve]

If you look closer, you can see the top three regions have 6,653 entities, 5,628 entities and then 1,680 entities with a lot of chunks loading. I think this is on par with what was going on with my entities. After turning them down, it seemed to balance out pretty well. When we were at 208~ people, the utilization rate actually really went down. After disabling mob-spawning, it was virtually not using anything.

[void elbow]

Server lagged

this good?

Now I can’t turn off the server, for some reason the thread died.

[viral coral]

take a thread dump

[void elbow]

How?

[viral coral]

jstack <pid>

[void elbow]

i off server

and restart

[viral coral]

useless now

[cosmic pawn]

Anyone know a good claims plugin for folia?

[solid bison]

please turn back up >:((

[young burrow]

bruh

im gonna be getting a 28 core server in august i got to like 118 today like 1200 % cpu usage or something

spawn is laggier because lots of pvp and lag exploit attempts at spawn for pvp

people flying around pvping and stuff and then people far out with bases and stuff this is latest 1.20.6

yeah theres some bugs but i think mine are all plugin related

it runs really good

this is with like no anti cheat at all btw

because nocheatplus is a joke at this point and i was using something else but now its tailoring to a difference audience

my server crashes every few hours from some packet exploit i believe

[viral coral]

118 at 1200% cpu is more worrying than impressive

[young burrow]

ik it is because of people flying

i got ssd raid so

these a really players lmao

flying around

it runs really good

[void elbow]

Why such a load?

7 players and 5180 entity???

whaat

your region = 7 players and 5 180 entites = 82% load..

[young burrow]

its someone exploiting

[void elbow]

give me ip

i test

[craggy fog]

Folia Development guide?

Dont work in the page of papermc

[arctic tapir]

there isn’t one

[craggy fog]

So how do I adapt a plugin to folia?

:c

I need a part or part of the documentation to adapt a plugin and get the implementation data for a few

[daring nimbus]

see the "Region Logic" page on how Folia works in general, and https://jd.papermc.io/paper/1.21/io/papermc/paper/threadedregions/scheduler/package-summary.html for the API to that helps you to make a plugin that works well with Folia

You need to understand how Folia uses multiple threads to properly adapt a plugin, so there isn't much guidance as what you need to do is very different for every plugin anyways

[craggy fog]

Ok, anything else I should know?

[daring nimbus]

Not really. There is some API that straight up doesn't work. and there isn't really great page documenting that, other than the Github issues

PlayerRespawnEvent and PlayerTeleportEvent are probably the most used one that don't work

[craggy fog]

Another question that has nothing to do with Folia now, because what you told me is useful enough to adapt a plugin... But I have a small problem and that is, is ASYNC in paper and in folia useful or not?

[daring nimbus]

useful how?

[craggy fog]

If it serves what it is made for, since most of the times I used it, it generated a delay, everything that had to do with ASYNC in paper, from time to time it gave me errors, I disabled it in most of the configurations, and it was much better

[viral stone]

The entire point of async is that it's non-blocking

no idea what you mean by disabled, there is no async things which are disablable inside of paper

[craggy fog]

paper gives you the option to disable asynchronous loading of chunks and all that, that's what I mean

[viral stone]

no?

We've not had the option to disable that mechanism in years

[craggy fog]

I don't know if it's still there, but I normally disabled it in the paper configurations because it slowed down the servers, or have I changed that?

[viral stone]

unless you're using stupidly old builds

but, the entire point of async is that it doesn't block the server waiting for stuff to happen

[craggy fog]

I have the old configurations in the new ones, does that change anything?

[viral stone]

No

[craggy fog]

Ok, what if it has to do with the components?

[viral stone]

what?

[craggy fog]

CPU

Ram

That

Low end pc, mid end pc?

Or not?

[viral stone]

I mean, the entire point is that if you do something on another thread, you give the main thread time to focus on actually ticking, thus freeing up time

even if X takes longer

ofc, making stuff occur in parallel to the main thread means that you're going to need more CPU resources to achieve that

[craggy fog]

Ok, I mean, all this time I was using Async, damn, they did polish it quite a bit

[viral stone]

even mojang made chunk loading async

[craggy fog]

That's shit, it needs to be deleted.

[viral stone]

No

mojang has also improved their own system a good fair bit, but, paper replaces a good chunk of it

[craggy fog]

The mojang thing so far has only caused me problems

[viral stone]

I mean, we don't even use mojangs chunk loader

[craggy fog]

Ah ah, ok ok

[viral stone]

we have to intentionally slow our chunk loader down

[craggy fog]

A

I mean, if I enable it, would I use the paper one?

[viral stone]

like, we literally had issues DoS'ing clients

there is no option to disable it

[craggy fog]

.-.

Let me show you

Sync, or async?

What the hell is this? Kskskkss, it's not the asynchronous one...

[inner swift]

That option is ignored on Paper, and will always be false

[craggy fog]

Or am I getting confused?

[craggy fog]

Ahhhhhhhhhh

Perfect

Perfect, beautiful

[viral stone]

that's just the IO threads

and is only really a concern on windows

[craggy fog]

Ok

[viral stone]

paper disables that, but, if that was enabled, then it would force the OS to flush the data to the disk

[craggy fog]

F*ck

Xd

[viral stone]

modern OSes generally take heavy advantage of using free memory to buffer reads/writes to the disk

[craggy fog]

Exactly

[finite hinge]

On the other hand when you want to make sure your writes actually write fsync is needed

It's all a bit YOLO right now

[frigid sleet]

Are there any plans to update folia to 1.21 in the near future?

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[cosmic pawn]

Anyone know a good claims plugin compatible with folia?

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[waxen spruce]

does the current version of folia work with 1.21?

[arctic tapir]

no

[fair merlin]

Not yet, no.

[waxen spruce]

😦 ok

thanks

[craggy fog]

Jeje

JEEEEEEEEEEEJE

[thorny ivy]

Towny have an advanced claim system as town and is Folia compatible.

[waxen spruce]

Considering a serer for ~15-20 players vanilla survival, a 4core 3ghz arm cpu isnt the best because of its lacking single core, but with this hardware folia would maybe handle it a lot better?

[arctic tapir]

no

folia recommends at least 16 core's

[waxen spruce]

o.0

[finite hinge]

With 20 players Paper would do a decent job of using all 4 of those cores, assuming the main thread can keep up to keep the others fed

Between the JIT, GC, chunk IO, chunk generation, networking, and plugin tasks

[worldly frost]

How come in the Folia documentation, there are things saying that certain APIs including world loading/unloading, player joining and dimension loading might not work? I have a folia server up at the moment and everything runs great

[inner swift]

These are APIs, which only affects plugins that might use them

[worldly frost]

Oh... Does that mean that if I were to install a plugin that doesn't use any of those, then it should work?

[finite hinge]

No, it's impossible for a plugin to just accidentally work on Folia

The plugin devs have to specifically enable it to work on Folia which almost always requires a lot of development effort

[worldly frost]

Thats what I figured

[thorny ivy]

Some simple plugins will work with a single line changes in plugin.yml to specify that Folia is supported, but you can't realy know witch one will work and witch one won't without trying.

[inner swift]

Anything that uses the scheduler at any point will fail, that excludes like 90% of plugins already

[weak tide]

This is likely a bad question, but why is there not a "folia" Lite, something in the middle to split up entity loading and chunk loading onto different cores

[inner swift]

Chunk loading and generation happen in different threads, thus possibly different cores

Folia works by splitting the world into different regions, and the amount of region threads is configurable, so that things can happen in different threads safely

This is one of the only ways to separate ticking into different threads that worked so far

[urban wing]

please finish the documentation 😭

[inner swift]

PRs welcome

[marble otter]

hi, if I use 6 cores on dedic is it bad for folia server?

[urban wing]

is there any source/doc with everything needed to change while porting to folia

cause i cant find any

[arctic tapir]

recommended minimum is 16

[marble otter]

thank you

[viral stone]

Because you end up introducing the same threading concurrency issues as folia for a fraction of the gain

or, well, Like, entity and chunk loading is already async in paper and has been for a long time

[weak tide]

Okay

I assume we will not get any new folia 1.21 versions until long after Paper 1.21 is fully stable?

[viral stone]

No idea

pretty sure he still has some stuff he's working on for paper

[cosmic shell]

Sorry for the doubt guys, but isn't there an approximate date for when the issue will be released for 1.21?

[daring nimbus]

that entirely depends on what your plugin is doing and how its structured. You generally have to understand how Folia works and then adapt on your own. And the "how Folia works" part is covered in the docs

so other then documenting missing API better I don't think there is really much that can be done regarding porting documentation

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[inner swift]

After Paper

[frail dune]

The server may shut down automatically. Does anyone know the problem? folia 1.20.4

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @frail dune: https://pastes.dev/d2gnHSOMer

[obtuse basin]

Something tried to add an entity off main thread

[frail dune]

How can i do ?

[viral stone]

Firstly, update

[finite hinge]

Pretty sure that's going to be on whatever plugin tried to do it but unfortunately the error doesn't give any hints

[wooden wraith]

Folia wont properly build on my laptop

When I run applyPatches

it throws this error

[arctic tapir]

send logs

[wooden wraith]

> io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false clone --no-hardlinks C:\**\Folia\.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper\work\CraftBukkit C:\**\Folia\.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper\.gradle\caches\paperweight\taskCache\patchCraftBukkit.repo```

changed my local folders with **

[arctic tapir]

the full one

[wooden wraith]

uno momento

running it with stacktrace

https://pastebin.com/un0gxxLf

[wooden wraith]

?

its seems to fail when using git

[viral stone]

outside of "make sure that the path isn't too long", eeer

only other thing would be to try again, or use WSL

[wooden wraith]

so path lentgh was not the issue

trying wsl rn

[fair merlin]

@storm sun Read the pins in this channel and the Readme on the Folia repo for answers about some of the questions you're asking

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[storm sun]

okey

[storm sun]

I don't like this lol thing there is only an option to start it as a console

[fair merlin]

Generally you use a start script like on Paper and add the nogui section to it. Running Folia on Windows is a terrible idea, but there are bash scripts for linux out there.

[storm sun]

why bad idea for windows?

[fair merlin]

Windows has slow FS in general for Minecraft. Windows has a lot of overhead. If you're running Folia it's because you're trying to eek out the max possible performance. Running Windows makes no sense because you're adding slowdowns and leaving a lot on the table.

[storm sun]

okey

[storm sun]

Also there is more than one configuration file which one should I edit? (yml)

[daring nimbus]

Folia has the same config files Paper has

[storm sun]

I don't know about paper, this is my first time opening a java server.

Have spigot.yml bukkit.yml

[arctic tapir]

config/paper-global.yml

[novel lodge]

if it is your first time opening a java server, then you should probably be using paper instead of folia

[storm sun]

I coded the modules of many servers in Bedrock, but I was surprised by the multiple configurations.

[storm sun]

ty

[novel lodge]

well, folia comes from a long chain of forks and optimizations that have been added over the years, fine-tuning them has become something server admins get specialized in almost

[storm sun]

ik

I can't learn without trying

[novel lodge]

if you are a developer then I trust that you know the implications of using this software so good luck I guess

[storm sun]

I think I can already make paper because I have written plugins in C++ and similar languages ​​before.

[winter shell]

I Wish it was C after all 😂 I might Not be in the right Community to dislike Java though, but its Not a Secret how Ressource hungry this game is, Look at the Traffic alone 😂

[viral stone]

if it was in C, there would be no community

[winter shell]

Well, I know other Game Servers written in C, why should there be No Community? From many years of Personal experience CICS and C never failed, and 1 Minecraft Player might equal 10+ small C Applications

[viral stone]

The entire ecosystem was started because of how trivial it is to decompile the vanilla server

and the tooling has only gotten better since then

injecting into random natively compiled binaries offers a much higher barrier to entry

[winter shell]

That's nice, I Had No clue about the History of this Server Software, I only worked in some Reverse engineering groups of Games about noone might even know 😂

I know I can't compare this Game anyway, with the massive world and chunk Handling and everything, Minecraft is Ressource hungry in Nature

[viral stone]

bedrock performs worse than JE, the language is far from the issue

[winter shell]

That's great. I realistically See The Cap at 2500-5000 Players for a Vanilla Server atm, which is great. But really delivering this bandwidth and latency Worldwide, will cost a few thousand a month 😂

[winter shell]

I have horrible experience with HE over IXP, playing overseas on congested and broken uplinks with Tons of Packet loss 😂 some of our Residential ISPs are very restrictive with peerings and expensive, while I Can reach Others completely free of Charge without any Problems

[prime juniper]

I have a Minecraft server and I want to play an estimated 1000 people on this server. I will divide my servers into Towny #1 - Towny #2 - Towny #3. I am in favor of using folia as an infrastructure, but I do not know how much it supports, how well it works, how well it stabilizes. We will add support for plugins ourselves, if not, we will prepare an alternative plugin compatible with Folia. However, one thing I'm curious about is how many players can folia AMD RYZEN 9 7950X3D 4.2 GHZ 16 CORE - 128 GB DDR5 with 32 RAWARE PARTICLES host on a server, can it run, will it cause problems in chunks?

[inner swift]

What are 32 raware particles

[prime juniper]

32 threads*

I am a Turk, I apologize for using the translation. I wrote it wrong

[inner swift]

Oh, lol
A thousand has been done before on that hardware, with a very particular player spread https://cubxity.dev/blog/folia-test-june-2023

Will you get a lot of regions?

[prime juniper]

The real world map...

My server will be towny game mode. I have to.

[inner swift]

What's the map size? In blocks^2

[prime juniper]

1:500

So as far as I understand, folia is not yet stable. It can't run 1000 players on the device I specified, am I wrong? I think there are bugs, like it crashes when I send a message to chat.

[fair merlin]

Your plugins have to support Folia.

If you're getting a crash when you send a message then you have some kind of plugin issue.

Folia has some glitches still, sure, but sending chat to players definitely isn't one of them.

[prime juniper]

That's what it says on the test address.

https://cubxity.dev/blog/folia-test-june-2023

[fair merlin]

Yeah, that'd be some issue on their end.

That's also a test on an older version, for what it's worth.

Not super super old, but a year ago.

There's been a fair amount of improvements since then.

[livid crag]

Folia in itself is pretty stable. Two of good example for you is DonutSMP and 2b2t

But both of them have resource to fix up issues as it comes up for them.

[fair merlin]

1000 players is a lot to ask of anything though.

You'd need to be pretty good at developing stuff and fixing problems and optimizing thing and aware of what Folia's limitations are.

But even getting 1000 people to join at once isn't easy.

[livid crag]

Like do you even sure you will get 1000 players? That’s a lot.

[prime juniper]

We will have a very big line spacing.

Mob spawns will be off and tick 0. During the first opening.

[inner swift]

Do you mean 1:50? 1:500 seems to be about 7.3k x 3.6k which is wayyy too small

[prime juniper]

500 - 500 will be 2 games in the style of Towny 1, Towny 2.

[inner swift]

And would not run Folia well

[fair merlin]

That sounds like more than one server connected to a proxy. So less than 1000 players per server, but more like 300 players spread out across 3 servers?

[prime juniper]

yea

We can also make more than 1 proxy server.

Do you have any advice?

[cursive mauve]

True. I've started switching to folia about a month ago and had no issues so far

[prime juniper]

OH GODDDDDDDD

That's very good.

[fair merlin]

Running a proxy and 3 Folia servers on a single 7950X seems a little snug to me, but I guess you can try it.

Plugin support is really going to be your primary issue.

[prime juniper]

We are working with Turkey's most professional javacists.

[fair merlin]

And RAM.

[prime juniper]

How many devices do you think a server for 1000 people should have? Should it be 2 devices? And what are the features that would take us very well?

[fair merlin]

I don't really have good answers for any of that. It all "depends".

[inner swift]

Nvm, I can't math, seems large enough

[prime juniper]

If you were in my place how many devices and what features would you use?

[viral coral]

3 folia servers on a 7950x is stupid

[prime juniper]

Maybe, I'm here for information.

[viral coral]

i can tell you from experience

3 folia servers with ~300 players each is a stretch on a single 7950x

factoring in your average minecraft public plugins

[prime juniper]

500 people on 1 server, 500 people on 2 servers. Not on 3 different servers.

[viral coral]

doesn't particularly make things better

[prime juniper]

All plugins will be custom written and optimized. Likewise, randomtickspeed will be 0 in the game files for the start and mob spawns will be very low.

[fair merlin]

So you have two 7950 servers?

[prime juniper]

No, I have 1, but should I make 2 servers to handle 1000 players?

So 500 players on one server, 500 players on one server.

[fair merlin]

I do not think you could make that work.

You would want two 7950X servers, at least.

Folia wants a lot of resources.

[viral coral]

i'd definitely do 2 7950x servers yes

[fair merlin]

Esepcailly for high player counts.

[viral coral]

not to mention the CPU cost of hosting a proxy for 1000 players

[fair merlin]

Yeah exactly.

[prime juniper]

But is it enough if these servers have 64 GB of RAM? Or should 2 sides have 128 gb ram?

[fair merlin]

I mean ideal setup would be 3 servers, 1 proxy, 2 7950Xs, all in the same rack, with dual NICs and routing internal traffic across the backend.

[prime juniper]

By CPU do you mean network, line limit utilization rate?

[viral coral]

no

CPU, not network

a proxy isn't free to run

[fair merlin]

More RAM is always better. If you have two 7950X servers then I'd get as much RAM as I could.

[prime juniper]

I don't know how to say what in your language. Sorry :D

[prime juniper]

Do you know elraenn and rraene? Turkey twitch streamers

[fair merlin]

Nope.

That doesn't really change the RAM you'd need though.

[livid crag]

Ideally you already hire a good infra admin for this I hope... They will be able to do all this and testing for you

[prime juniper]

These are the things I have learned from you, let me tell you briefly:

I need to make my Towny servers 2 different independent servers. These servers should be r9 7950x3d and have a 500 - 500 player limit.

I need to have an extra server which should be a backend proxy server.

My servers should have 0 processors and everything and should not cause problems. My network line should be at very high levels.

[prime juniper]

By zero processor I mean it should be clean, not second hand. Newly purchased.

[fair merlin]

New or used wouldn't really matter.

It's a new enough CPU that you aren't gonna get something 10 years old. Drive health is going to be more important

[prime juniper]

I see, if I do it this way, I can play 1000 players on a linux server, right?

Of course within a good optimization.

[fair merlin]

Maybe. It depends on the plugins and what the players are doing.

The is no formula for "this CPU and this much RAM == this many players". Every setup is a little different.

[prime juniper]

Towny doesn't have a lot of data logging and so on. It's a mod with about 50 plugins. The only problem is that it's a very big world.

[timid grotto]

the whole point of folia is breaking up the world into smaller regions

you can have far more chunks loaded on folia than you can on paper

[winter shell]

I honestly See this Server at 500 Players max, especially on Gigabit Ethernet, aswell ticking regions, 30-50 Players for 1000 players is already the full CPU utilized by ticking the regions alone, but it depends on too many factors, I don't think its Impossible but far from Optimal

[winter shell]

16 cores is still bare Minimum for a single folia Server, and Serve 500 very Well to me is a better choice than accepting lag etc

[placid birch]

Folia 1.21 already patched?

[arctic tapir]

no

[fallow crescent]

Is there a date for the folia to be officially released?

[arctic tapir]

no

[prime juniper]

dm

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[covert field]

What is folia

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[languid bison]

Is it correct that Folia still does not support version 1.21?

[arctic tapir]

correct

[ashen flame]

What is stopping folia from updating to 1.21?

This is just a question, not forcing it

[vale loom]

I have no idea, but maybe it's related to Paper not being stable yet?

[storm sun]

no official document

Does anyone have a document? for developing

[ashen flame]

Ngl what does that even mean?

[storm sun]

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/dev

no content

[ashen flame]

Oh like that fair enough

[storm sun]

Does anyone have a 3rd party one?

[ashen flame]

A 3rd party development guide? Prob not

[daring nimbus]

There isn't really much a guide can offer. Adapting/developing a plugin for Folia heavily depends on what your plugin is doing. So you yourself need to understand how Folia works (there is documentation for that) and then adapt to that in your plugin. Thats not really something a guide can help with

[storm sun]

I think I need to review the source code

sad

[golden meadow]

When is folia 1.21 support?

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[golden meadow]

Paper ?

[silent basin]

how to dowload folia

help me

[prime juniper]

build it

you can't download it

[silent basin]

i don't know build 😦

[prime juniper]

then its probably not right for you

[silent basin]

Can you guide me to build it so I can download it
IntelliJ IDEA Community Edition 2024.1.2

[viral stone]

Read the readme for paper

just, instead of cloning the paper repo, you clone the folia repo

[silent basin]

ok

[silent basin]

i don't know file pom.yml

[gentle raven]

what? paperweight uses gradle not maven

[silent basin]

thank you

[delicate lichen]

can you suggest a setting for installation (a certain number of chunks through which a new region will be created) if of course there is such a thing, or something similar please tell me where to find it

and also, if possible, after what time will they be unloaded if they are inactive

[delicate lichen]

or when 2 regions merge into 1, at what distance will this happen (something like this)

[viral stone]

the setting is the grid exponent

inactive does not mean unused, it just means non-ticking

default range was like 900 or 1.5k blocks apart or something around there

[delicate lichen]

Is there a setting in the configuration file for this?

[viral stone]

yes

[delicate lichen]

where can I find it? I didn't wait for an answer...

[primal oyster]

The merging will usually ocurr when a region 'touches' each other

This happens with addChunk methods

Your view distance affects this because it's what mostly loads the chunks

You can find the setting on the paper global iirc

Honestly go look at the code and add debugs so you can see how it performs

Folia isn't friendly usage, if you want those answers they're on the codebase

[raven abyss]

anyone know how buggy folia is rn im running it in production and i wanna know what im in for lol

[inner swift]

I mean, other than the missing API it's fine, really

There are big SMPs that have been using it for a while

[raven abyss]

oh thats hype

someone need to spank essentialsx lowkey they havent got folia support added yet

lowkey sad

anyone know what server use folia im lowkey intrested in checking them out getting som eideas

[inner swift]

2b2t, donutsmp

[raven abyss]

dang 2b2t thats impressive

wait no wasnt that just a test server

[inner swift]

Their prod uses a Folia fork now

[raven abyss]

oh thats lowkey cool

folia gonna go places lowkey

they js gotta get these plugins to get off there ass and put the pizza down lol

[livid crag]

It’s funny they went from no mobs to too many mobs. You can check latest fitmc video

[raven abyss]

lol

weird though im running folia rn it seems like theres not that many mobs

[twin spindle]

Hi, when I buy R9 7950 16/32, how much I need allocate cpu? 10-14?

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[twin spindle]

and how much need traffic fro 50-10 online players? 125mbit is not a lower?

[void lark]

hi

Do you recommend folia?

[manic quarry]

do you have mostly spread playerbase of over 70 and free 16 cores of cpu?

[void lark]

yes

[manic quarry]

do you have any key plugins that don't work on folia?

[void lark]

probably

[manic quarry]

then I don't recommend folia

because it requires plugins specifically supporting it

[void lark]

but i can code basic minecraft plugins

i know java and im beginner on bukkit coding

basic or middle plugins

example an silkspawner pl etc.

[manic quarry]

well, check and see if you can handle folia's scheduler jungle

[void lark]

okey ty

[raven abyss]

are there any folia builds for 1.21

[arctic tapir]

no

[twin spindle]

how much I can allocate threads for folia on R9 7950x?

[raven abyss]

i belive it can use as many as you give it

but it wont use them all if players are close together

you have to be atlest a few thousand blocks away for it to split the regions

[twin spindle]

okay

[twin spindle]

thanks

[twin spindle]

but I can give more 16c if cpu has only 16c? Or Folia work only with threads or core?

[raven abyss]

i dont know what your asking

[idle furnace]

a core can run several threads, so it will work, but will not be performante as intended

the idea it to have around a thread by core

[raven abyss]

anyone looking to help me stress test a folia SMP server im tryna make sure i wont have any problems once the playerbase expands

[arctic tapir]

not really the place for that

[raven abyss]

you know where i could find some people?

[arctic tapir]

no

[raven abyss]

alr

[idle furnace]

Something that might help a bit, is to stress test it with bots, it is not close to real usage, but you get an idea

Once they are 1k blocks away from eachother you sill see the cores suffering

[raven abyss]

you know any good bot software?

[idle furnace]

https://github.com/PureGero/minecraft-stress-test

[foggy orbit]

doesnt folia has proper development docs or is my browser is buggy

[daring nimbus]

your browser is fine, there are no docs there

Paper docs apply mostly, and for everything folia-specific see the "Reference" sections above

[foggy orbit]

what about NMS

is it any different than using it in Paper?

[daring nimbus]

works the same way, although some methods might no longer work or not exist, you will have to figure that out

mostly chunk/teleportation stuff most likely

[foggy orbit]

im not sure what git repo means by Additionally, multithreading of any kind introduces possible race conditions in plugin held data - so, there are bound to be changes that need to be made.

does that mean NMS is not thread safe anymore due to how multiple plugins are being run concurrently in separate threads?

[daring nimbus]

NMS was never thread safe to begin with

[foggy orbit]

yes, but in paper your plugin ran on main thread

how would i access NMS in thread safe way in folia then?

[daring nimbus]

Well you have to understand how Folias region logic works and then use the appropriate schedulers (in the API) to run your code on the correct thread - NMS or not doesn't matter here

[foggy orbit]

i guess you would need to use the region scheduler?

[daring nimbus]

yes

[foggy orbit]

from what i understand each region has its own tick heartbeat, its like multiple small minecraft servers, synchronized under one server software

like very roughly multiple paper instances running for each region

[foggy orbit]

so the only change i need to do mostly is to use proper scheduler to execute code on correct thread right

besides data races that might occur if i store another plugin's data inside my own plugin

[daring nimbus]

"yes". But entities can move between regions (and as a result, threads) and regions can merge

[foggy orbit]

well that helps alot

[daring nimbus]

yes. theres nothing NMS specific other than that some NMS class might have had changes

[foggy orbit]

"use the proper scheduler" should be gold standard to memorize for me when working in folia

😄

thanks bro

very helpful

[prisma heart]

Is there a scholarship available to be able to use folia? if possible in 1.21 or 1.20.6

[viral stone]

wat

[primal oyster]

yes!

[prisma heart]

Could you tell me where I find it?

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[viral stone]

Same build instructions for paper work for folia

[median sparrow]

Hi, I have a question about folia. I have a server with a 2000x1500 blocks map and 300 players online. I need to split the map into several regions. If it is possible to disable unification, with make regions for example 10 on 10 chunks

[manic quarry]

doesn't work that way

[median sparrow]

Can I reduce the radius to 100 blocks before joining the regions

?

[finite hinge]

While it can go lower than it is now I don't think it can go that much lower

And the lower you go the more overhead there is

[median sparrow]

How can I put 100 blocks?

[finite hinge]

I'm pretty sure you can't

Also even if you could once they merge they have to be even further separated to split again, to avoid flapping

[median sparrow]

If I patch the folia, in theory I can make regions static so they are bound to specific chunks?

[viral coral]

no

dynamic regions are a core part of how folia works

see https://docs.papermc.io/folia/reference/region-logic

[cloud jetty]

What does it mean? Why are there so many chunks in one region, it shouldn’t be like that...

[viral stone]

because your players are too close together

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[viral coral]

folia works well when players are spread apart a lot

[cloud jetty]

is there any setting for this?

[viral coral]

no

er i should say, there is a grid exponent setting that you could tweak but it doesn't solve the fact that your players are likely too close to each other

so that might not even change anything

[cloud jetty]

oke, thx

[median sparrow]

What to do if the region is not created even at a distance of 2k blocks?

threaded-regions:
  grid-exponent: 2
  threads: 20

I found a screenshot where user regions are created at a distance of 500+- blocks.

[finite hinge]

If Player A is 2k blocks from Player B (x/z only, y doesn't count here) but Player C is in between them they'll all be in one region still

Or, well, depending on your configuration they will be

[viral stone]

minimum grid exponent allows a distance of like 900 blocks, iirc

[finite hinge]

And remember, once they merge they have to get more than the merge distance from each other before they'll split again

Like, if they merge at 900 blocks I think they have to get like 1200 before it'll split again

[median sparrow]

I teleported to coordinates 20k, and the region wasn't created.

[finite hinge]

I have no idea what's going on with the screenshot you gave, it shows regions that are ~380 blocks from each other

I dunno, maybe Folia is broken right now then

You're on the latest 1.20.6 version?

[primal oyster]

the latest one does seem to be broken

tubbo tested a raw build i did on stream and the creating/merging wasn't working properly

[median sparrow]

A screenshot from the internet with the result I want.

[median sparrow]

1.20.4

[primal oyster]

try changing the grid exponent

[finite hinge]

I've never seen Folia able to do regions that small

[primal oyster]

see if it makes any diference for you

[primal oyster]

itll really depend on the view distance

the smaller it is the lower regions you can really get too

with some code customization you can get that

[median sparrow]

tried...

[primal oyster]

then go build folia and debug

[finite hinge]

I ran all the numbers for that at one point and the numbers didn't change from view distance 2 up until like 17

[primal oyster]

yeah i see

most of the actual merging logic seems to happen on adding chunk to a region

[finite hinge]

Although that was before the grid exponent default was changed (or was changeable) so maybe it's different now

[primal oyster]

itll look for nearby ones with sections

thats where you can also reduce merging radius etc but

yk

all these custom things, at your own private risk ofc

[finite hinge]

I could have sworn setting the grid exponent to 1 just broke things

[primal oyster]

it does

[finite hinge]

And anything higher than 2 gets you even bigger regions

[primal oyster]

the code has some math.min math.max that will really just not get you to achieve these

it really requires custom changes

it has a int searchRadius that'll determine if you merge r not

and that number is -search +search so

thats where you modify

i tried that

i managed to get around this (the randomness was completely from minecraft spawnRadius)

the map was very small too

i think it was like 10k radius

but I did mess with the values on the code.

[finite hinge]

The smaller your regions are the more overhead you have though so I wonder if it's even worth trying to make them smaller

And when I said breaks things I meant vanilla game mechanics would end up trying to access things in other regions with it smaller

[primal oyster]

Cpu wise you get higher costs

Ram wise mostly not so much

Yeah

I mean, I did get some crashes that I managed to fix so

It's really a choice but it's determining right, folia already specifies larger maps

[foggy orbit]

does folia support plugin mojang mappings remapping in the newest available version (folia 1.20.4)

[viral stone]

No

the remapper did not exist in that version, only in 1.20.5+

[foggy orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-the-frog-sad-crying-gif-16026853

[viral stone]

that ersion still uses spigot mappings

you can get a mojmap'd folia jar, but, public plugins would likely not work entirely

[foggy orbit]

does luckperms have support for mojang mappings in folia?

[median sparrow]

What you changes in code?

[primal oyster]

Regionizer.

look up, RegionRelease method, and the regionizer variables/how they're used on the scope. thats it.

[median sparrow]

What changes have you made to ThreadedRegionizer?

[primal oyster]

look at the logic of use then you'll know what to change.

[median sparrow]

Specifically, can you please tell me what I need to change to reduce the distance of the regions

[primal oyster]

No

sorry

You'll need to run your own tests.

No disrespect, but folia isn't plug and play yet, so you have to figure things out, if you don't have the capacity to figure things out then Folia isn't for you

power of mind my friend! you got this

[cold girder]

okay can I ask what version you have?
1.20.6?

[primal oyster]

on DonutSMP I am still running 1.20.2

[cold girder]

thank you

[primal oyster]

on here, I think it was latest.

[prime juniper]

can someone send me folia 1.12.2 ?

[viral stone]

there is no folia 1.12.2

[prime juniper]

then what is folia

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[golden meadow]

will there be Folia 1.21 or has this project already died?

[viral stone]

...

leaf is working on his patches for paper first

once he's done that, then the patches to integrate folia into those can be done

[prime juniper]

uh i need folia for anarchy server

[viral stone]

the changes that folia requires to exist do not exist in 1.12.2

nor will folia be backported by leaf

[golden meadow]

Of course I'll be waiting

[viral stone]

so, you are generally, as-is, on your own

[primal oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/money-money-money-gif-3641396535535975514

[prime juniper]

fr

[foggy orbit]

folia's release could be a great way to split from old bukkit api for paper

is there any builds of luckperms besides experimental PR patch build from jenkins: https://ci.lucko.me/job/LuckPerms-Folia/ that works?

[fair belfry]

im gonna have a guess and say no, otherwise that thing probably wouldnt exist and a "folia" section would exist on the luckperms website

[foggy orbit]

actually it seems folia did got an upstream rebase of Paper 1.20.6 2 months ago, so it should support remapping

right

[arctic tapir]

yes

[foggy orbit]

also i just realised that i've compiled mojang mapped 1.20.6 folia build

so its not as if it doesnt exist

[plush hearth]

where can i find an actual list of the flags you can pass to the folia jar

to allocate threads and all that

[cold girder]

how much? 😄

[primal oyster]

what

im saying if you want those things you open the pocket

message leaf

maybe your offer is interesting enough for him

[fair merlin]

Don’t message Leaf asking him to port Folia to 1.12. He’s just going to ignore you.

[manic quarry]

Don’t message Leaf asking him to port Folia to 1.12. He’s just going to ignore you.

[fair merlin]

That too, really.

[keen carbon]

Just wondering, what CPU are you using and how much RAM are you using? Values ​​for 500 players look great.

[livid crag]

Pedro here sharing info that he could charge people real money for

[primal oyster]

i mean

"dont message leaf"

the guy is big on tiktok

im sure a big money offer makes a diference

you never know...

[fair merlin]

This isn’t the place for this kind of conversation, either way.

[foggy orbit]

https://i.imgur.com/jpLpXJf.png

am i the only who gets errors when trying to use gradle wrapper for ver/1.20.4 branch of Folia?

[raven abyss]

anyone know if folia has any problems with dual slot servers or should it work fine

[cold girder]

I think so

[inner swift]

At worst, you'll get performance issues

[raven abyss]

thanks kyle

[primal oyster]

it shoulnd't

but if you do get something like that then send another msg here

[foggy orbit]

anyone? i need 1.20.4 folia build

[viral coral]

remove folia-server & folia-api

applypatches after

[foggy orbit]

why does ./gradlew clean doesnt remove it

[viral coral]

because gradle can't compile your build script now because you've checked out an older branch with build script changes that don't work on 1.20.4

[foggy orbit]

why doesnt git checkout doesnt force remove untracked files

[viral coral]

because that would be stupid

folia-server & folia-api are also in gitignore

git checkout would normally tell you to stash changes when it comes to untracked files not in gitignore

[foggy orbit]

well that worked

thanks, it wasnt clear though that this was an issue

[cold girder]

how much time you spent to do it?

[primal oyster]

30 decades

in processing time

but I am parallel

so only a couple n units of cycles

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[delicate lichen]

can this be done on a 10k block server where the players are located close and the regions will not merge? what settings should I use for this? or is it necessary to change something in folia itself from the developers?

[viral stone]

as is pretty well covered in the documentation

if stuff is too close together, stuff will merge

there is generally little interest in allowing regions to be so tight together because it starts creating concerns for vanilla logic accessing world state

[primal oyster]

And you're running into huge risk

If these regions touch each other close to the same time and do a big badass merge you could end up with not so much of a good scenario

You don't want what's on the picture

[delicate lichen]

can you tell me what grid-exponent does?

[viral stone]

basically, it controls how far regions need to be apart

[delicate lichen]

is it advisable not to change this setting?

[viral stone]

reducing it may have a performance cost but should generally be fine afaik

[primal oyster]

minimum is 1 or 2 iirc

[twin spindle]

what can you recommend do on Ryzen 7950x 16c/32t?

[viral stone]

I have no idea what you're asking

nor will I provide you support

[twin spindle]

why?

[viral stone]

Please don't ping me

[twin spindle]

sorry, but what I do wrong?

[primal oyster]

Nothing

He just doesn't want to provide support for it

Don't worry

For the CPU etc, it's really a trial

See what fits best for your use case

You can use tools that spawn and login bots

@twin spindle

And then you'll see whats best

What gives more/less regions

And so fourth

[twin spindle]

he meant that he would not provide me with support, somehow not very

[twin spindle]

I'm using on productive server vanilla

thanks for answear

[twin spindle]

in this case, will it be better to have more or fewer regions?

[primal oyster]

Always more

It's like performance charts

For your case, the more the better!

[twin spindle]

very thanks for answear)

[covert topaz]

Hello, I would like to ask when the folia1.21 version will be released

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[marsh maple]

(66859b50bb3b0c6d8b810369) // @cerulean juniper (@yle.service / 868614468547018822) has been banned by @viral coral (215448923681062913)
Reason: Quick-banned for sending a message in #folia-help

[idle furnace]

We should put a bot anwsering that 😂

[keen yacht]

is it possible to run papermc plugins on foliamc ? through some plugin or something ? will there be a built-in protocol in the future that will also support papermc plugins ?

[viral coral]

no

folia already tries to break as little API as possible, certain changes have to be made to function on folia

[keen yacht]

is it possible to rebuild the plugin ? (with open source) or foliamc works completely differently

[viral coral]

you need to make scheduler adjustments and make sure that said plugin is not using any of the broken api on folia

it is not as simple as marking it folia supported

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia#the-new-rules

[keen yacht]

so the foliamc is not usable? (at least for the moment)

[viral coral]

it is usable

plenty of people/servers who run it already

plenty of folia supported plugins to be found out there or forks/branches for plugins that support folia

if you are not a developer however, folia is not something we recommend using

[keen yacht]

yes I have seen, but many of the plugins we use are not compatible with the folia

[viral coral]

yes, hence

folia is perfectly usable aslong as you are able to port plugins yourself or write plugins yourself

it is not for everyone, requires good hardware too

[twin garden]

True ! My server is running folia since april and it's really insane (production server)

[dire iron]

Hey guys, I am planning to host a Minecraft server but I do not want to stick to 1.8.9. Does someone has some tips that would help me port the 1.8.9 Combat Mechanics (Knockback and other physics dynamics) or know if it's possible to perfectly emulate it? My plan is to use a modified version of 1.8.9 but I would love to instead leverage from Folia as it's the future of Minecraft servers

[obtuse basin]

Without wanting to sound rude, get over it. If you use it you get used to it. It has been long enough now. Time to accept it.

1.9-1.21 add so much features and people want to stick to 1.8 because of spam click

[viral coral]

take a look at https://github.com/Samsuik/Sakura/tree/1.20.4/patches/server @dire iron

[finite hinge]

https://hangar.papermc.io/kernitus/OldCombatMechanics

[dire iron]

Yes, that's why I am asking.

[viral coral]

if you actually want to try and port 1.8 combat mechanics outside of using oldcombatmechanics, refer to that fork

tends to have legacy cannoning & combat mechanics

[dire iron]

Hey, this one seems legit good

Thank you

Is porting to folia similar to paper code?

Or is it completely different

[fair merlin]

Read the documentation for answers on that

Some stuff is the same, some stuff is different.

[dire iron]

Awesome, thank you. I will be looking through it and start experimenting.

[idle furnace]

This looks nice. Might be the solution to help migrate those old mc server versions

Will give a look at it on my vacations to see if i can make it work on paper and from there port it to folia

[manic quarry]

If you're sure you won't ever change combat again you can have a simple plugin that will change all armor and weapon attributes to their 1.8 values and set attack speed attribute on players to like 40 or 50

It's gonna remove the client having the swing cooldown even if server lags and can't send reset cooldown packet

[timid grotto]

theres (apparently) more to 1.8 combat than just no attack cooldown

[viral stone]

cooldown and damage rates are the main things which kill the whole "fast PvP" that people miss

there is ofc a bit more nuance to the tweaks, but, just tweaking that stuff makes PvP a whole lot more fun

[idle falcon]

Movement is minimally different

[idle furnace]

Sure looks easy the way you mentioned it. If it really is that way, i might just add that mode on a minigame plugin i am making

[manic quarry]

there's a lot of people who think that. I personally witnessed people like that complain, then we stopped the server for an hour or so, put out announcement that it's now fixed and no complaints since then

there are multiple pvp servers running latest versions and literally noone but techs and admins knows

[idle furnace]

Dont say that loud 🤣

[manic quarry]

don't worry, surely, this isn't the server you're playing on

server you're playing on is using genuine 1.8 for sure

[idle furnace]

I dont pvp, dont worry 👍

[halcyon pine]

Just curious, is there any build instructions somewhere? Feels like I've searched everywhere I can think of and there's no such things.

Such as "java version, Gradle version etc etc"

Using an old guide I managed to find I used

gradlew.bat applyPatches

In order to well... Apply the patches but it errors out so it seems there's a versioning issue but I can't find any info about what versions is used.

Tbh it seems like a paperweight issue and not necessarily folia but still... It's related right?....

[fair merlin]

Use the instructions from the Paper repo

It’s a fork of Paper so the build process is the same.

[halcyon pine]

Ah I see 😅 makes sense 👍 thx

[foggy orbit]

papermc web api supports folia?

just found out about this from itzg's docker image source code

[idle furnace]

Plz delete that

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[idle furnace]

Our developers dont need the People that this info will bring

[jagged ether]

Please don't post links to downloads

[foggy orbit]

why does this exist tho

if paper doenst provide builds for folia atm

[jagged ether]

because we don't want people not technical enough to get the builds

if you can query the API you're also competent enough to build it yourself

[foggy orbit]

well that's a compliment for me i guess

[idle furnace]

Dont take it personaly, see it as a triage

[small mauve]

Anyone else have weird issues with items from plugins? For example, McMMO armor on fishing don't like to cooperate with the Anvil. Let me see if I can't get some data on these items. I have seen it from multiple plugins. To me it seems like any item manipulation isn't taking well on Folia. On paper, I am not having problems when I try to recreate the issue.

(NBT Explorer), is that custom_data from the plugin or?

[viral stone]

Mojang no longer represents itemstacks as a raw NBT blob when loaded anymore

they use data components

they retain a custom_data component for retaining an NBT blob for a mixture of "stuff still in the works of being represented properly" and for mods, and such

having a Damage tag in there would suggest that you've got something installed on there trying to do manual NBT changes which will no longer work

[small mauve]

That would be McMMO and a few other plugins. I'll reach out to them, thank you.

[foggy orbit]

for anyone wondering how to setup folia with itzg/minecraft-server docker image, im letting you guys know that the example given in the docs is missing one environment variable due to how folia is currently in experimental channel in paper web api

so instead of running:

docker run -d -v /path/on/host:/data \
    -e TYPE=FOLIA \
    -p 25565:25565 -e EULA=TRUE --name mc itzg/minecraft-server

you need to run:

docker run -d -v /path/on/host:/data \
    -e TYPE=FOLIA \
    -e PAPER_CHANNEL=experimental \
    -p 25565:25565 -e EULA=TRUE --name mc itzg/minecraft-server

too bad docs doesnt state that and gives the latter example

this might seem obvious enough for you guys, but lemme just tell you that i've wasted hours trying to find the solution lol (im thankful for myself for trying web api today a bit with GET requests to really know what was going on in the first place lol :D)

[calm fable]

whats the current version of folia on master ATM?

still 1.20.4?

oh nevermind 1.20.6

[foggy orbit]

why removing all docker volumes is so annoying

sudo docker volume ls | awk 'NR != 1 {print $2}' | xargs sudo docker volume rm

is not there any normal command to do that instead of this piping

[obtuse basin]

docker volume prune?

[ashen glade]

Sorry for this question, but is there any ETA for folia for usual ppl?

I mean several months/year/more

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[primal oyster]

Sorry but

Folia is like, likely never coming to 'usual' people

You can already use it, but why would you?

If you can't build it yourself or you have someone to fix/develop for you

Then folia is really not a software for you

[ashen glade]

That's sad
As I understand, MT will only happen if mojang want it, and they don't
I've been hearing about folia for a long time, it's very cool to stop looking at threads to find lag cause, but...
Mb one day...

[livid crag]

99.99999% of the server has 20 players or less, it’s really not a priority if you think in their shoes.

[ashen glade]

I spent 3 days trying to optimize my server

[livid crag]

Is your server huge?

[manic quarry]

are you having issues currently?

[ashen glade]

Not that much, just trying to make as many cool things as I can without much lag

[fair merlin]

Folia generally wants a dedicated higher end CPU that most people don’t want to pay for, and specific use cases

[ashen glade]

ryzen 7950x

[fair merlin]

I’m saying this is why, as Pedro said, it’s not really suited for “mainstream”

Having a fast CPU is good but now you want players to be 1500 blocks apart also. And plugins to support the regions.

[swift night]

theres a reason u have to build folia urself lol

[modern sundial]

How to enable string dupers?

[tawdry gull]

Looking to re-enable patched Vanilla exploits such as TNT/sand/string duping or bedrock breaking? Click here for more information.

[modern sundial]

Nvm there’s a bug open on the GitHub about it rn

[foggy orbit]

thanks

[opal spoke]

is there any folia optimization guide, or any config&settings i can set specific for folia to improve performance & region loading?

especially paper global

[naive fable]

I would start with a better cpu

[manic quarry]

have more threads

4 is far cry from recommended minimum of 16

[inner swift]

That's not necessarily 4 total threads

There are 4 region threads in that setup, either forced by a config, or just how Folia does its own math to determine how many to use based on the total

[manic quarry]

default is Math.max(threads/2, 1) iirc

either way it's way under the bare minimum

[primal oyster]

I got 4 with the 7950x for whatever god reason

[inner swift]

It's num of available threads divided by 8 (or 1 in particularly low core count cpus)

So if this is default it does meet the minimum of 32 threads

[manic quarry]

in this case, only reasonable way to improve would be to make sure players are separated by around 1k blocks at least

you generally should not care if a few regions are at low tps, that's very much intended and you should just probably tell players in those regions to stop being silly with their farms

any time you see a region with very bad tps, that's a prevented cataclysm, because on a regular software entire server would go to shit

[primal oyster]

Lmao

[primal oyster]

Here, your regions are at a very good rate already, there's a deal thouggh

[viral stone]

they have the region count

they need more threads to back that region count

[primal oyster]

Increase your number of threads to the exact number of threads you have in your box, don't bother much about the overhead, with 100 players it'll be minimum. See if you can tune in and optimize values, just make sure you do this. Because it doesn't make sense to use folia if you can't scale your thread count.

[opal spoke]

im using 14900k with 32 core

[primal oyster]

32 core or thread

I didn't know 14900k had 32 cores

[viral stone]

8 cores, 16 e-cores

[opal spoke]

and a folia fork developer recommend me this setting

any changes should i made on number

[primal oyster]

Yes

Increase the thread count

And be careful when listening to people

[opal spoke]

to howmuch

[primal oyster]

Just run your tests

[viral stone]

generally looks fine

[primal oyster]

What view distance you got in there

[opal spoke]

simulation 5, distance 10

[primal oyster]

Yeah you're definitely not going to have lots of regions with a somewhat small world on that my friend

Neither a very good mspt as well

[primal oyster]

If you want the safe way

Put your sim to 3

decrease your view

[viral stone]

they have 20k entities in the region

[primal oyster]

Decrease some of your mob caps as desired depending on your map siz

Implement entity limiters

just because you're using folia doesn't mean people can't lag your server

[opal spoke]

mine is a anarchy server with lots of chunk...

[primal oyster]

There's still overhead

[primal oyster]

What's your map size

[viral stone]

I mean

the type of server doesn't change how folia works

[opal spoke]

5 million

[primal oyster]

Hell

[viral stone]

you still need to be able to support stuff

[primal oyster]

5 million blocks?

5m x 5m?

[opal spoke]

okay so should i change my thread region from 12 to 16?

[primal oyster]

No

[opal spoke]

actually its both positive and negative

so its 10m X 10m

[primal oyster]

So 10 million

[opal spoke]

yes

[primal oyster]

Are you using any plugins rn?

[opal spoke]

yes

[primal oyster]

Would you mind sharing a spark profiler

with --thread *

[primal oyster]

Yeah does not sound optimized at al

[manic quarry]

if it's anarchy, do not share spark

[primal oyster]

Core protect has some real fun there

[manic quarry]

there's a chunk list with currently loaded entities with chunk coords

[opal spoke]

im using 1.20.4 that does not include spark

[manic quarry]

shouldn't be an issue

[primal oyster]

Ah you don't even have it

[opal spoke]

no