folia-help

[inner swift]

Well, that might work but I don't think it's the most cost effective option

Do you have lots and lots of regions?

[daring nimbus]

mainboards for threadripper are also rather expensive, and those CPUs get hot

[north stream]

FOLIA, is it official yet? or how do I get it

[arctic tapir]

compile@it

instructions on paper repo

[north stream]

and where is that

[arctic tapir]

papermc/paper github

[tulip drum]

yeah that would work really well

[warm valley]

Hello , i need help

• What went wrong:
  An exception occurred applying plugin request [id: 'io.papermc.paperweight.patcher', version: '1.5.5']

Failed to apply plugin 'io.papermc.paperweight.patcher'.
paperweight requires Gradle to be run with a Java 11 runtime or newer. Current runtime: Java 1.8 (Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM 25.202-b08)

[arctic tapir]

gradle is using java 8

[warm valley]

changed this to be using correcto java 16

not sure if that is the best soulation .

[warm valley]

i have this now , where i can find the .jar file?

[hexed ice]

you need to build it still

[warm valley]

using intellij idea?

right?

[hexed ice]

using gradle

[warm valley]

what is the command to build it ?

so many files

which one i use to build it

[arctic tapir]

read papers readme

[warm valley]

nvm i got it working thanks

[violet plinth]

hello. I have a new server in paper and a thread farm does not work, what should I change in the configuration for that type of farm to work? thank you

[inner swift]

#paper-help
Duping strings is patched with no option to re enable

[fluid cradle]

Hello Tcoded, sorry 4 ping, I found your PlayerKits fork, and I found some issues and errors, Please write to me in direct message so that I don’t go offtopic, thanks in advance!

[marsh maple]

(6533f3eacdf07f25f6aca0e7) // @fluid cradle (@xxglitch / 390916689107091456) has been warned by @livid crag (177150983258767360)
Reason: Please reach people with their preferred method, espeically if the person has No ping pls on their name indicating they do not wish to be bothered this way.

[pseudo ibex]

I think it’s just the creation of kits I found an issue with. You can just go ahead and create a kit on paper, then transfer the files when you go back to Folia or something . That PlayerKits Fork that supported Folia was mainly just a test. A lot of the files that were needed for creating kits, opening and more were deleted from the original PlayerKits GitHub. So those classes all had to be created from scratch.

[ivory marten]

Is it possible to have compatibility of the "TradeSystem" plugin with folia?
(https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/trade-system-custom-layouts.58434/)

I'm currently testing it and I have errors.

[feral hazel]

it can be supported for folia

please contact the developer of the plugin

[wet arch]

There's an open issue for it, https://github.com/erikzimmermann/TradeSystem/issues/483.

[fluid cradle]

No, I found another bug, when player take kit with full inventory - Items that do not fit are not issued and there is an error in the console

[pseudo ibex]

Oh does it take their vault money in game when they get a kit? If it doesn’t I’m sure it’s just something that can be ignored.

Oh wait so it does still give the players items from the kit, even if they don’t have enough space for all the items in the kit?

[royal swallow]

does a plugin need a update to work for Folia?

or can I "try" to put them in and see if they work?

[tacit tartan]

Plugins need to explicitly support folia, as folia breaks some core parts of the API in order to work

If a plugin doesn't explicitly declare that it supports folia, it won't attempt to load it

[royal swallow]

okay

thanks for info

[outer wolf]

Hey, where can I find a list of plugins that support folia?

[tacit tartan]

There isn't one that I know of

[viral stone]

there was a github project thing with a list somewhere

[outer wolf]

ahh this ? https://github.com/BlockhostOfficial/folia-plugins

[viral stone]

yes

[outer wolf]

perfect, thanks!

[slim cradle]

What diffrent is in folia-bundler-1.20.1-R0.1-SNAPSHOT-reobf.jar and folia-paperclip-1.20.1-R0.1-SNAPSHOT-reobf.jar

[arctic tapir]

paperclip you can redistribute

bundled not

[slim cradle]

So

What does it mean

What should i use for my server

Smp

[arctic tapir]

either is fine

just don’t redistribute the bundler jar

[slim cradle]

Oh okay

[slim cradle]

May you look dms?

[arctic tapir]

no

[slim cradle]

😭

[naive junco]

I have a few questions about Folia's performance and capabilities:

1. Does Folia's regionized threading provide benefits if a significant number of players are concentrated within a small area, like a lobby or hub? (I.eg say a total of 250 players being online simountaniously within a 300x300 hub)
2. In scenarios where players are confined within a limited area, does Folia offer performance advantages over traditional solutions like Paper?

To address potential performance concerns:

• Is rendering only a subset of players visible and making others invisible a feasible strategy to enhance client-side performance?
• Would the reduction of the frequency of specific packets, such as entity movement or equipment changes optimize server-side performance?

It's crucial for us that we only use one instance for this, as we have to avoid sharding unfortunately, so I was kind of hoping some guidance here.

[viral stone]

1. no, that literally goes against the mechanism that folia uses in order to improve performance
2. No, it would offer worse performance than paper

reducing packets being sent from stuff like the entity tracker would offer good benefits assuming it can be done sanely

but, seriously, just use multiple worlds or something, you'd need a datapack or some hack to do that, however

[naive junco]

I think that's the only option, if we have multiple game instances running on the same server, and we somehow simulate the players to make them appear as if they're co-located in the same space as one another

thanks for the quick responses

[slim cradle]

Is there good core plugin for folia?

Like essentialsx

[feral hazel]

as far as I know essentials has a folia branch on github

[slim cradle]

Folia is not supported yet. We are working on proper Folia support. Do not attempt to use current versions of EssentialsX on Folia or forks of it - you may lose userdata.

[bold osprey]

cmi said long ago that they work on folia support, and some of the other plugins from the same author gained folia support really fast, but no news on that
so yeah, you either take the risk and open a new server where you use the dev version of essentialx, or wait

[civic garden]

I can't compile Folia with this problem

[arctic tapir]

full log

[viral stone]

read it

[arctic tapir]

uhm

<@&748618676189528155> ?

[marsh maple]

(653829f7cdf07f25f6aca0f4) // @rocky bridge (@farhankodan / 494051762932678656) has been banned by @livid crag (177150983258767360)
Reason: spam bot

[wise epoch]

🥷

[vivid tinsel]

<@&748618676189528155>

[marsh maple]

(653841fccdf07f25f6aca0f5) // @steady nova (@vaggelisbalis / 416915858837995540) has been banned by @rare steppe (105923848263753728)
Reason: nsfw ads

[vivid tinsel]

Thank you

[lyric lantern]

You need to configure your github identity

[civic garden]

Oh ok

[tall marsh]

Git* it has nothing to do with github

[cosmic pawn]

Has anyone made a semi-vanilla SMP server with folia yet? Like an SMP with plugins for claims, TAB, chat, and other QOL stuff

[tall marsh]

If you need claims your players are too close to benefit from folia /s

[cosmic pawn]

lmao

Although that makes me think: If my server has a 24k radius border, will the players be too close for folia?

[inner swift]

Seems like a reasonable size

Well, maybe not if you have like 300 players

[livid crag]

2b2bt is on it.

[prisma iron]

unfortunate

[pseudo ibex]

Why unfortunate?

[restive crane]

I have built folia but I am still unable to make it run on all 16 threads, is there a setting I need to change for it to take effect

[inner swift]

If you actually have a 8C/16T, Folia will notice it's in a low spec server and set the amount region threads to 1

You'll need to override that config

And then, to get it to use all the region threads, you'll need to have players in these different regions

[restive crane]

ok but like when the server is loading it says I am only using 2 threads in total one for IO and the other one for Regions

[inner swift]

Yeah, first you have to override the region threads config

[restive crane]

ok yep I found it thanks

[marsh maple]

(653a3949cdf07f25f6aca0fa) // @foggy yarrow (@.lovezero / 859994143208112139) has been banned by @hexed ice (331822092477792256)
Reason: spam bot

[split nova]

Has folia been tested at a large scale yet

[feral hazel]

what do you mean by "large scale"?

[split nova]

Like lots of players on a server *

[feral hazel]

the largest public test I Know of was 1000 concurrent players

[split nova]

Oh cool

[feral hazel]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36488461

[split nova]

Can't wait to see a super large YouTuber host some sort of server in the future when this fully out

[inner swift]

There's 2b2t, which's on Folia

[odd storm]

This might be a dumb question but where are folia plugins executed ? Is there any sort of main thread for them or not at all

[viral stone]

There is no main thread

[odd storm]

So it's like if each region has a copy of the plugins that each run separately on their own region right?

[paper siren]

No

Plugins don’t run exactly somewhere, their code is called where needed (e.g. event listeners)

[fallow stone]

During startup, they're started on the global tick thread right?

[pallid axle]

hi
can we safely migrate from folia to paper or other papers forks?
will we lose the map, is something specific used to store it? what about player.dat?

[arctic tapir]

yes you can safely migrate

as long as you're not downgrading MC versions

[fallow stone]

If I multiply the chunky.getZ() by 16 it gets the corner not the center right?

[paper siren]

Yes

[fallow stone]

oh thx

I'm in Algebra level 2 so I need the help

[verbal skiff]

Como puedo compilar folia???

[subtle oriole]

Aqui solo se habla ingles, pero para compilar Folia debes leer la guia de como compilar Paper

https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md

[verbal skiff]

disculpa

ok

[quiet salmon]

Just wonder - Is there any estimated release date of a full version of folia? (something like for example 1st q of 2024 or whatever)

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[quiet salmon]

Thanks

[coral remnant]

can someone link me to the supported plugin folia list

there was one git rep or smth

[feral hazel]

they couldn't give you a list of plugins that support paper. How are you supposed to know them all? If you want to use explicit plugins check wehter they offer folai support.

[coral remnant]

there was one github repository i cant find now

[viral stone]

there was a list maintained by some hosting provider

[coral remnant]

yes

[viral stone]

see folia plugins in the search

[coral remnant]

found it, forgot that google existed mb
thanks!

[ionic wadi]

Is Folia 1.20.2 there? When i Compile it is 1.20.1

I complied the newest Version of Folia from Githb but the Name says 1.20.1

[viral stone]

you need to checkout the 1.20.2 branch

[ionic wadi]

Is there something like the /datapack command i cant find it to disable Datapacks

[viral stone]

Read the docs, theres a bunch of disabled stuff right now

[ionic wadi]

ok

If the /worldborder command is disabled is it possible to set the worldborder with a Plugin or is there any way?

[viral stone]

Yes, you could have a plugin WB

[ionic wadi]

Okay and is that like a the normal worldborder?

[viral stone]

depends on the plugin

[severe talon]

My server is suddendly crashing without closing, it freezes but doesnt stop. Im using pterodactyl.

[19:46:20 INFO]: UUID of player Ruizocio is 9b3af7eb-67fe-4e9a-b6a3-afa8b9afe183
[19:46:23 INFO]: UUID of player Rodrigaso9 is 342ed531-054a-455b-a56e-aeaaeac7a8ce
[19:46:28 INFO]: UUID of player TuteXeneize is 32b8bf2f-e18b-40ea-a535-1416a20bde3d
.....

If I dont kill the process it doesnt stop

[hexed ice]

you'll want to use something like jstack to see what it's getting stuck on

[exotic canopy]

is there any crash log before that?

or any error

[severe talon]

Nothing

[severe talon]

Okay I will se how to use that

[exotic canopy]

weird

[severe talon]

I will upload full longs in a moment

https://mclo.gs/7sSiVgV

The only weir thing I see is when someone logs-in it throws a lot of advancement errors. The world is migrated from purpur 1.19.2

RN Im running it outside of pterodatyl, It seems to be crashing lees frequently but still crashes

[viral stone]

[20:55:16] [Region shutdown thread/WARN]: [RegionShutdownThread] Scheduler did not terminate within 60s, proceeding with shutdown anyways

at the very least, you had a thread that was deadlocked when you started to shut the server down

[severe talon]

How can I figure out what is causing that thread to lock?

[viral stone]

I mean, the trace is there in the logs, it was ncp

[severe talon]

Yes I see it now, thanks I will remove it and try 😎 🫡

[north stream]

Hi, what plugins support FOLIA?

[daring nimbus]

very few do. Most that do will likely mention it on the plugin page. You can also filter Hangar for Folia support. There was a list of some floating around somewhere as well

[north stream]

#hangar-dev

[exotic canopy]

Whats even is the difference between paper and folia? Isnt it just an other fork?

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[inner swift]

Very different from the average fork

[exotic canopy]

kk

[fallow stone]

Folia server is crashing for unknown reason, can’t find a stack trace in the logs, what should I do?

[paper siren]

show your logs

[tawdry gull]

Don't ask to ask.

If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for staff or topic experts. Don't ask to ask or ask if people are awake or available. Just ask the question to the channel straight out, and wait patiently for a reply.

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[vestal urchin]

Could someone explain to me why 16 cores is recommended instead of 16 threads. I'm thinking about running a server on a AMD 3700x.

[jagged ether]

because 16 cores with hyper threading is 32 threads

Folia has a lot of overhead and if you don't have enough threads to do stuff concurrently plain Paper is just better

[viral stone]

Because hyperthreaded cores aren't "real cores" and have a 30% performance penalty in use

most modern OSes will schedule around them, do you need 16 cores? no, it's just the general hardware recommendations to actually see any real scalable benefit from using folia

[arctic tapir]

<@&748618676189528155>

[marsh maple]

(653e9cc6cdf07f25f6aca102) // @heady harbor (@dextg / 372423597895057411) has been banned by @wise epoch (1098722699116810331)
Reason: nsfw spam

[sullen sand]

the rare triple ban xD

[wise epoch]

lynx got it first :(

[white badger]

Hi there, I'm new to this whole "compiling files through github" thing and have made it as far as compiling the 1.20.1 release, but I'm trying to get my server set up for 1.20.2. I found the branch for dev/1.20.2, how do I go about "compiling it"?

Sorry if the phrasing is wrong, still trying to figure this all out lol

ive done 1.20.1 start-finish but i dont know what im doing for 1.20.2

[fair merlin]

Check out the 1.20.2 branch and follow the same steps.

If you aren't sure how to do that, that's a git question. Google should help.

[white badger]

I think I figured it out, i ran "git clone --branch dev/1.20.2 <repo URL> ", when I'd been typing 10.20.2 instead lmao

[tall marsh]

For the future, If you already have the repo cloned locally, you can use git switch <branch name> to open it without re-cloning

[rain bough]

We need maven for 1.20.2

[arctic tapir]

what

[rain bough]

<dependency> <groupId>dev.folia</groupId> <artifactId>folia-api</artifactId> <version>1.20.1-R0.1-SNAPSHOT</version> <scope>provided</scope> </dependency>

This but for 1.20.2

[daring nimbus]

build it yourself and publish it to the local repo

[rain bough]

Good one

[daring nimbus]

huh?

[rain bough]

Good idea

But I will wait for official public Maven

Or this project is dead?

[daring nimbus]

General expectation with Folia has always been that you build it yourself to use it

So you should be able to just hit that "publish" task

[dull roost]

Quickie question, how stable is this now, and what % of plugins support it?

[viral coral]

there's a million plugins out there

we don't have info on what % support it

from personal experience, stable enough to run it in production, aslong as you've got enough time to port plugins over yourself

[dull roost]

i c

[radiant siren]

Is it possible to reduce the size of regions? like have more regions within a 10000x10000 block area?

[inner swift]

It's not possible

[radiant siren]

so players need to spread out more?

[arctic tapir]

yes

[deep wave]

Hi! I was wondering if folia is production ready, I would love to use it in place of paper (obviously checking plugin compatibility)

[paper siren]

read a few messages above

[loud schooner]

Hi, I'm having trouble building 1.20.2 multiple times.
How to solve it?

[arctic tapir]

send a proper screenshot pls

or logs

[loud schooner]

error log:
https://pastebin.com/xw45hKE7

[viral stone]

corrupted jar

[foggy blaze]

F to pay respects

[tacit tartan]

No

[bold osprey]

gpu would be too slow for folia, it's made for other tasks than minecraft

[viral stone]

No

GPUs are a highly specialised piece of hardware

the CPUs inside of them are small and genererally any data they work on you have to copy back and forth

great for work in which is lots of complex maths and can be isolated to the GPU

[mystic furnace]

Is there a way to support the development of Folia and its features/bugs or speed it up with additional outside devs to get the best out of this project? I really want to make this the best mc server type that can do anything like vanilla + a big performance boost etc yk

[jagged ether]

PR improvements

[fair merlin]

Not really. You can make PRs but Leaf would have to review them and accept them to make sure they met his code standards.

It's a pet project of sorts with mostly just one person working on it. So things aren't gonna be particularly quick development time-wise

[mystic furnace]

No i mean like if for instance i would assig my own devs to work on this project to improve it and fix bugs etc yk. so that not only one person has to be working on this big project. I think this has big potential and i dont want it to like take ages (not stressing but you know what i mean) to be "perfect and bugfree" etc

[jagged ether]

You're free to have people work on it and PR it, you're free to hire people to work on it and PR it, but it will have to be approved by Leaf

[fair merlin]

Yes, but Leaf would still need to review and approve those changes. Since this stuff is pretty complex he'd have to go through all of the PRs to make sure they're doing things properly, in the right format, etc etc etc.

So you could do this, and you're more than welcome to submit PRs, but there's no guarantee that stuff will get reviewed quickly or approved to merge into Folia.

[mystic furnace]

So are there like instructions on how the PR´s have to be or the code in general?

Bc i really want to avoid that people work for like idk 50h and then their work is just there but not used yk xd

[fair merlin]

There aren't, no. You'd have to look at the existing codebase, basically.

But this stuff is pretty complicated. Someone else paid someone to submit a PR and that PR wasn't doing things in a way Leaf was comfortable with, so it was not approved.

So I cannot recommend paying anyone to submit a PR.

[fair merlin]

And, yeah, I get this. Which is why I would probably start very small and contribute small things and see if they get approved and build from there.

I would 100% not work on something for a long time and then blind submit a PR that's going to be huge and take a long time to review only to be rejected.

[mystic furnace]

I will think about it and see if i find someone who "fits" to his style of code and start with the smaller bugfixes and see how it goes ^^

[fair merlin]

Not just code style but also code quality.

If you submit a PR that's within the code style but doing some unsafe thread stuff it's not going to get approved.

[mystic furnace]

If i find someone then i will tell him to match also the quality or if possible improve it. Time will tell at the end ^^

[fair merlin]

But, again, I strongly advise against paying anyone to PR things to Folia.

Strongly strongly advise against.

[mystic furnace]

ik ik dont worry

[prime juniper]

How can I make this mod run on single player with forge

🤔

[arctic tapir]

not

it's also not a mod

[prime juniper]

So I can't use it with sodium?

[arctic tapir]

folia is not a mod

it's a server jar

[prime juniper]

I use a IBM ThinkPad G40 so Minecraft doesn't run good

[prime juniper]

What's if I run it on a server, will it make Minecraft run faster?

[arctic tapir]

no

[prime juniper]

I was told this is a performance booster.

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[arctic tapir]

for servers that have enough players and a few hundred/thousand dollars to spend sure

[prime juniper]

Oh

[livid crag]

It works in certain cases. You can read more about it on the info above

[inner swift]

This is for people who want to run very large SMPs where people are spread out, like 2b2t

Or similar spread out gamemodes, etc

[prime juniper]

Oh I can't buy this. I don't have that much money laying around

I wish though

Thank you for helping :)

[arctic tapir]

well folia is free

the hardware you need for it to run smoothly isn't

[west lily]

To reiterate on what the others have said; this isn’t a performance booster unless you pay hundreds/thousands for enough cores and RAM to be able to take advantage of folia, as it’s very heavily multithreaded. On top of this, Folia uses regions (very large) to make multithreaded thingos, and you need more than one of these for it to make an impact at all over paper.

[prime juniper]

darn it.

[distant nexus]

is the same position in different world eg nether vs overworld ticked on the same thread or different threads?

so like 0 0 0 overworld vs 0 0 0 nether

[gentle raven]

different thread

[viral stone]

they're seperate regions

[violet summit]

Hello, Is the foil stable for production?

[hexed ice]

the foil is pretty stable yes

[finite hinge]

If you have at least one developer on staff and most/all of your plugins are compatible with it, sure

[inner swift]

Well, it's "stable" in the sense that it doesn't have known unpredictable crashes

It's still missing some API, etc

[foggy blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/ric-flair-wwe-wrestling-wrestler-wooo-gif-17797049

[fair merlin]

Don't shitpost in help channels.

[fair merlin]

You too.

[hybrid harness]

how do you install foila?

[scenic sky]

if you dont know how to, you probably shouldnt

[hybrid harness]

no i've been making server for a while now but under github it doesnt show any releases where is the download link to the jar?

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[feral hazel]

-> build it yourself

[hybrid harness]

how? i can't program

[inner swift]

Folia is for developers

[arctic tapir]

then folia is not for you

[bold osprey]

then wait for folia's release

[analog ivy]

Is Folia currently in use on any of the big mainstream servers?

[livid crag]

2b2t

[analog ivy]

Interesting

I can see it making a big difference for a server like that, but I'm surprised they have the budget for that kind of hardware.

[livid crag]

I mean they are litearlly the most profitable non-cracked anarchy server and very well known, if anyone gonna have the $$$ it's gonna be them

[thorny snow]

Is it normal building folia taking this long on a R7 5700X on Ubuntu 22 WSL?

It is doing something

[jagged ether]

Nope

make sure some anti virus isn't messing with it

and if you have literally any shittiest VPS that runs Linux try on it and will take a few mins tops

[thorny snow]

Good bet, maybe Kaspersky is doing something. I'll try disabling it

[inner swift]

Make sure you're not crossing filesystem boundaries on anything along the process

[thorny snow]

It shouldn't, I made sure to chown the folder before, and it is actually doing stuff, just extremelly slowly

[thorny snow]

Now it is appling foliaApiPatches

[viral stone]

what folder are you running it in?

[thorny snow]

Windows folder

[viral stone]

eeer, wat

[thorny snow]

Not on the Ubuntu folder, on my normal Documents, from my windows pc

[viral stone]

Yea, that is why it's taken almost 2 hours

[thorny snow]

sadness@shiftmc:/mnt/c/Users/rosal/Documents/Folia/folia

[viral stone]

you need to run it in the WSL filesystem

otherwise it needs to cross over to the windows filesystem, which is stupidly slow

[thorny snow]

I'll try running on the WSL Filesystem. If it works, windows is way dumber than I though

I officially hate windows.

[finite hinge]

WSL->Windows filesystem transfers are via 9p, a lightweight network filesystem

Like SMB or NFS

Then on top of that Windows IO subsystem is being used instead of Linux and the Windows one sucks at dealing with lots of small files which is what source code and especially patch files are

[tropic otter]

why am I getting this message, even if i downloaded like 10min ago

[livid crag]

The helpful warning is based on the time the build is released so in some case that may happen

[tropic otter]

oh ok

I was thinking it was an update checker or something

do you know if kaiju is safe? while searching for plugins i found it, it's a fork of folia

[livid crag]

We only support and recommend Folia here

If you need help or having question on a fork, you will ask them

[tropic otter]

ok

[plain shuttle]

Hey i am thinking about buying a new cpu should i buy the AMD Ryzen 9 5950x or 9 5900x?

[feral hazel]

AMD Ryzen 9 5950x

16 cores are recommended for folia!

[plain shuttle]

okey

[arctic tapir]

7950x is newer

[feral hazel]

true

[plain shuttle]

but i dount think what it is woth it

[arctic tapir]

what is your budget

will your players be close to each other

how many players

[narrow tangle]

i am checking the tps low problem of the region, but the region is so big, how do i know what is the cause of the low tps?
And, is it normal for 5950x to have almost full utilisation when there are 52 players

[feral hazel]

I guess the problem is the 8k entities in this region

[narrow tangle]

is there any way to find those entities' precise location?

[feral hazel]

i am not aware for any function of folia

you could either write your own plugin or see if there are plugins

i would simply teleport to the players in the region. If are no players neraby, then the chunks with the entities are not loaded

[narrow tangle]

humm, is there a way to listt players in the region?

[bold osprey]

you can try to use spark

it has a per chunk entity viewer, so you can find chunks with an unusual amount of mobs

[odd storm]

the entity count is very high for every region, could it be because of the animal spawning bug of 1.20.2 ?

[livid crag]

you can easily verify this with /paper entity list

[odd storm]

I'm just suggesting for @narrow tangle, this is not an issue I have

[narrow tangle]

I am using the latest version/commit in main branch which is 1.20.1, I am not using dev/1.20.2 branch.
Should I use dev/1.20.2 instead? Is that stable?

[fair merlin]

It's more stable than 1.20.1

We're only pushing updates and changes to 1.20.2 right now.

Folia stuff isn't going to get backported.

[odd storm]

I say that because i saw on github that some people had issues with animal spawning being crazy in 1.20.2 am I wrong?

[narrow tangle]

will dev/1.20.2 become master branch instead of * dev * branch in github? I think there maybe also people get confused and think that it is not suitable for production servers to use it, since it show dev in github.

[livid crag]

I mean folia as a whole is not suitable for production yet

[arctic mulch]

Oh, so it isn’t recommended to use it on a production server yet, are there any folia alternatives that achieve the same thing? I recently heard about multipaper

[livid crag]

Not the same thing

MP is basically just multiple servers

[arctic mulch]

I know multipaper isn’t the same thing, I believe multipaper achieves something similar to the donutsmp system 🤔 but will folia be able to achieve a playercount in the thousands using one server?

[arctic tapir]

yes

depending on your hardware

and how far away the players are

[livid crag]

Already did on early test https://cubxity.dev/blog/folia-test-june-2023

[arctic mulch]

I have a 5950x

[arctic mulch]

This is not bad, 1k players using a single server

[fair merlin]

1k players on a single server was previously unheard of, so that’s a lot better than “not bad”

[arctic mulch]

Ye, 1k on a single server is very nice

When will folia be suited for a production server?

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[viral coral]

it already is aslong as you have the development budget to invest into plugins

[arctic mulch]

Is it easy to migrate to folia from paper once folia is actually suitable for a production server unless it’s best to just keep folia as the server jar from the get go

[viral coral]

your problem is going to be plugins

[viral stone]

from the server running perspective it's just a jar swap

from an ecosystem perspective it's just plugins needing to be adopted for an entirently different fundimental manner of threading

[somber belfry]

i guess

but some large servers are using it

what exactly isn’t ready for production

[odd storm]

a lot of features in the api are not supported such as world creation and scoreboards and more, it also might be broken on some levels and needs more testing i think

[viral coral]

large servers using folia are not going to be using vanilla scoreboards

wouldn't call the lack of world creation not being ready for production either tbh, that's just a trade-off which plenty of servers can accept

[fair merlin]

It's still in active development. Some stuff may change, some stuff might get fixed, some stuff might stay the same. Either way you have to be pretty savvy with what you're doing with plugins and probably write a bunch of custom stuff to use it. You also need to make sure your use case works. A lot of people come here wanting to use it for a small world and that's not what it's designed for.

We end up saying that it's not for everyone a lot.

[odd storm]

wait so we can still use scoreboards from the paper api ? I thought all forms of scoreboards were broken

[odd storm]

yea yea ik, it's just to say that it's not finished

[bold osprey]

no, everyone is using packet based scoreboards

[odd storm]

Oh yea I did that once

[slender light]

unheard of it? It was relatively easy with Multipaper if you had the compute... I was able to get close to 3k bots moving around at walking speed on 2x8160s and 768GB of RAM before ticks started to slow down

[paper siren]

MultiPaper isn’t one server

[fair merlin]

That's not "one server".

[slender light]

But it is?

[fair merlin]

We have two different "server" concepts.

[slender light]

It's multiple shards off of a single physical server

[fair merlin]

In Folia's case it isn't sharded, it's a single instance.

[slender light]

That's like saying Cassandra isn't one database, it's a bunch of databases

it's one database/server to the end client

[fair merlin]

It doesn't really make sense to compare Folia to MultiPaper as they aren't quite doing the same thing.

Not to mention, bots aren't a great indication vs actual players.

[slender light]

How so? They're both sharding

[fair merlin]

But either way, 1k players is very impressive.

[slender light]

PureGero got 3k+ real players in an event a year or two ago

it was a great claim to say it's unheard of is all I'm saying

[paper siren]

In its description, it says it’s multi-server

[slender light]

And? In usage it's a single server to the player

[paper siren]

Well you could say the same for proxies then

[slender light]

But those are different worlds

not a joined world

[paper siren]

But one server can have multiple worlds

[slender light]

And?

[carmine brook]

Multipaper is different from Folia. With Folia you run one server that can use multiple cores, whereas with multipaper you run multiple servers.

[slender light]

And you can't run multiple servers on the same physical machine to utilize those extra cores?

[paper siren]

No one ever said that

Please don’t make things up

[slender light]

It seems to be what's being insinuated

Like, no duh they're different at a certain level. That's just what two different implementations of a system fundamentally is. But at a high level, they both serve the same purpose of spreading out player load with Paper

Like you could make the argument that regions are equivalent to shards in implementation except they just have shared memory instead of serializing and deserializing objects over a network

[fair merlin]

I mean we're splitting hairs at a certain point. Folia isn't "sharding", it's using what Leaf calls regions, which are different than regular Minecraft regions.

MultiPaper is actually sharding. That's why earlier I said we're sort of talking about two different things when we say "server", but we're actually kinda talking about three when you think about it because a lot of networks and stuff are using multiple physical servers.

So yeah it gets complicated. But for Folia you're using a single server instance on a single hardware service. That's the primary difference. Nothing else doing that has sustained the same number of players.

And, sure, it's kind of an arbitrary metric because you have to have the caveat of what "server" means. Nothing against anyone running networks, any sharded software, or whatever.

But the two projects don't really have the same goals overall, so the comparison doesn't make a ton of sense.

Folia is specifically designed for larger cores but also larger maps. Players being more than 1500 blocks way, etc.

It's not built for minigames servers with small maps and stuff.

There's a lot of tools out there. Nice for people to have options on which one to pick.

[slender light]

a single server instance on a single hardware service. That's the primary difference. Nothing else doing that has sustained the same number of players.
That's just moving goal posts 😛

[fair merlin]

It was specifically what I was saying when I first said it above.

When I said "single server".

I am not nor was I denigrating MultiPaper. If you're a fan or supporter of the project then rock on. Solely talking about Folia and some of the pros involved with using it.

[slender light]

I do think it is useful to compare the two paradigms though, since Folia should win hands down in using more efficient amounts of resources; but it seems like there are a few things that still need to be worked out. Using MP as a lineguide for where to optimize next could be extremely helpful for future tests

[pearl cloud]

Not really, they are fundamentally different

[arctic mulch]

Is multipaper part of the paper community or is it it’s own thing? Because I don’t see a category for it here

[arctic tapir]

it is not

it’s is its own thing

[arctic mulch]

Okay, let’s say you start with paper as your server jar and once you get more players and really need a new server jar to support more players and start working for everything being custom plugin related, could you eventually just switch to folia without it being a big deal 🤔

[fair merlin]

The map will migrate from Paper. Whether it's a "big deal" depends on the plugins you're relying upon and if they're easy to migrate to Folia, and whether or not your server/gametype is suited for Folia or not.

[arctic mulch]

I’m having an smp so it’s perfect for folia but I kind of want to switch from a server jar when the time comes instead of using it from the get go and we can allow our custom plugins to have folia support 🤔

[fair merlin]

As long as the players are more than 1500 blocks apart. Make sure you're looking up the requirements and use cases for Folia.

And depending on what you're trying to do with custom plugins, some of them might not really work on Folia.

So it really depends on what you're doing/how you're trying to use it.

[arctic mulch]

I’m having a PvP server so I should only use folia if I’m doing like a chill smp where players can claim blocks and build and just chill 🤔

[fair merlin]

No idea

It really just depends on system requirements and how spaced out the players are.

Not sure what a "chill smp" is.

[arctic mulch]

So you can have a PvP smp server so long as 500 players aren’t in the same region for too long?

[feral hazel]

they shouldn't all be in one region for just a short period of time. Your server certainly won't be able to handle that

your players should all be spread out around the world. If there were 10 players in a reegion, that might still work, but I wouldn't want to have 100 players per region

[arctic mulch]

Ye, I’m not saying that 500 players will be in one region but pvp requires close proximity to each other

[feral hazel]

Folia is only for you if your players are spread out across the world.

I haven't followed everything you've written, but if you do SMP and PvP I would host SMP on Folia and PvP arena on a Paper server.

Both on Folia, when PvP requires much closer - difficult

[arctic mulch]

The donutsmp is an example of a PvP SMP since they usually have over 1k players but it’s not like you run into players every 5 minutes so using folia is out of the question

[feral hazel]

if your players are spread out and only have 5 players in a region because they are currently fighting with each other, that shouldn't be a problem with Folia

[narrow tangle]

I remember you said you have a 5950x, i also have for my production server still running now, at peak i have around 100players with 150-200%/400% utilizaiton on a new SMP map with no redstone or anything that cuase lag, so i guess folia on 5950x can hold around 300-350 players.

I have a question, how does folia determine the region size? 5950x have 16c32t , i see utilizatio is at max 400%, my map is vanilla radius 15000 blocks, how big is each region and, will the region size be better if i make the map bigger?
So it would be better for map to be bigger for less lag because player can be spread to different regions?

[arctic mulch]

So you have all custom plugins?

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[narrow tangle]

My server is completely new, I only download or compile plugins that have folia versions, or I try to fork a plugin and change some codes.

[fair merlin]

It’s better for the map to be bigger, yes. The regions are 1500 blocks at a minimum. They may be larger depending on map size. But Folia wants people spread out.

[paper siren]

the 400% mean that 4 threads are used for region ticking, but that does not affect region size (one thread can tick multiple regions)

[narrow tangle]

Does that mean my cpu resource is not fully utilized because my map is too small? 😰
I am only running 1 folia server in my ubuntu computer

[paper siren]

not necessarily, if you're usage is way below the 400% but you have lags in your regions, then yes, but otherwise there wouldn't be much benefit to make use of more cores

but the selection of how many cores are considered to be used at max does not depend on the world size but only on the core count

(you can configure it, but you'd need to figure out yourself whether it improves things or makes things worse, we basically don't really have enough numbers about that)

[arctic mulch]

Is there a plugin list of what plugins have folia support?

[arctic mulch]

What is the recommended map size for folia?

Like 30000 or something 🤔

[paper siren]

there isn't a recommended map size, you just don't want too many players in a small area

[arctic mulch]

300-350 players on folia, I mean it’s not a bad playercount but I was expecting a bit higher, maybe like 500+ but I’ll probably switch to folia when the time comes instead of having folia as the server jar with zero players since it requires a ton of custom plugins which take time to make so maybe just wait until more plugins become compatible with it and grow my server and network and then go for folia 🤔

Otherwise I think you are just wasting the potential of folia and what if you never reach a high playercount

I might go for folia once I reach maybe like 200+ players if I ever reach it

[mild slate]

The hardware requirements for folia are expensive, it's more cost efficient to have a proxy with multiple servers and call it a day

[viral coral]

depends

multiple servers is not exactly a great answer

may not always be viable either

[somber belfry]

probably not

and also sharding could be a better option for a smp

it really depends

if you aren’t a developer or don’t have money to pay a developer you might be limited with folia

[arctic mulch]

What is sharding exactly? Is it like the donutsmp system and what multipaper does? I’m sorry if it’s a dumb question but I have heard of Sharding before but I always forget what it is, it is like the donutsmp has right

Like stacking multiple servers together

Are there any known networks using folia with big playercounts?

[livid crag]

Correct

And yea 2b2t @arctic mulch

[arctic mulch]

Ye, I did hear that 2b2t started using folia

[livid crag]

Pretty stable from what I can see

Though their map is extremely old so a lot of structure is fucked but that happens in vanilla too if you cross too many versions

[arctic mulch]

I feel like folia is better than sharding since you are stacking multiple servers together but with folia, you are using one server and just using more cores

[viral coral]

folia is seamless

practically every sharding implementation is not

[livid crag]

Yeah folia is still one whole server

[arctic mulch]

Ye, I’ll stick with what I was planning originally and just switch to folia if i want a higher playercount since folia will probably be a bit further along by then and perhaps more plugins will have support for it etc

Isn’t going for folia way more cost effective than sharding 🤔 since I want to have a variety of servers instead of just one and I feel like sharding is only if you plan to have one server and just dump as many players there as possible

[somber belfry]

like donut smp

i guess

but donut bots their players idk why they actually need sharding

if you open up 2 instances of mc the playercount is different

i’m not sure how many players they actually get

[somber belfry]

idk it depends you need a good cpu for folia

[rotund ruin]

16 cores is the recommended minimum for folia currently, and dedicated servers with that many cores will usually set you back like $50/month, so folia is only worth it if you have loads of players

[feral hazel]

where can you get a dedicated server with 16 cores for $50/month? I only know these prices if you have your own hardware in your own racks.

if you rent dedicated servers from a very cheap provider you'll barely be under $100/month.

[rotund ruin]

I believe hetzner is like €55 a month for a 7700x

[feral hazel]

a 7700x doesn't have 16 cores.

8 cores!

not 16!

[rotund ruin]

I thought folia's min 16 was threads not cores. My mistake!

My point stands that there's no point for folia unless you have loads of players

[somber belfry]

more then that in the us

$100+ for ryzen

and if your running folia you’d probably want to go ryzen

[rotund ruin]

US hosting is always more expensive!

[somber belfry]

it’s 32 threads

[feral hazel]

yes that's true and I stand behind it too.
I was just wondering if I had completely missed out on any ultra cheap hosts on the market

[somber belfry]

sharding can be more cost effective and efficient

and if your running a really really large network sharding might be the way to go

[viral stone]

I mean, regions are basically just a form of sharding, just on a different plane

[somber belfry]

if you have folia you kinda need a development team

[viral stone]

The issue is that no sharding solutions do anything which isn't basically an entire hack job

I mean, when you get to the scale where those solutions start becoming attractive, you probably should already have a dev team

[rotund ruin]

You basically need a database

For sharing

[viral stone]

all solutions are going to require you to pretty much have your own devs

[somber belfry]

yeah but most people here don’t have a dev team

[feral hazel]

Makes sense for most Folia servers, yes. Many people still have a lot of activity in the individual regions.
But if servers simply have a lot of regions and less happens in each region, I would prefer server cpus with more than 16 cores.

[viral stone]

Heck, folia is easier to deal with vs stuff like the older solutions

[somber belfry]

when you get to the scale when you need folia you should have a dev team

[somber belfry]

possibly

[viral stone]

it's 1 instance to deal with

vs having to share data & state between potentially a dozen instances

[rotund ruin]

Velocity and bungee and definitely harder to deal with than a single instance

[somber belfry]

yeah but what if someone needed more then they could put into 1 machine

they would need sharding

[rotund ruin]

True. There are use cases for multi threading and others for sharding

[viral stone]

Yes, but there is no good sharding solutions out there is the thing

[somber belfry]

yea that’s why you have a development team

[viral stone]

the MC server software is not designed for it, that's why all solutions outside of mmo servers are shoddy

[somber belfry]

yea

[viral stone]

a dev team can't fix the fundemental issue here

not unless you wanna go to the lengths of developing your own software from the top, in which no server wants to do, as the years before payoff are far too much

[somber belfry]

yeah

the only server that does that stuff is hypixel

[feral hazel]

Folia is for special cases and not for every server. For certain use cases, Folia is very powerful. I think when Folia stable is released, it will mostyl be used in combination with Velocity and Paper servers.

[viral stone]

hypickle is still based on the vanilla server software

[somber belfry]

i’m using folia right now for my smp

[viral stone]

well, they're based on like a 10 year old spigot fork

[rotund ruin]

I believe hypixel is using their own fork

[somber belfry]

it’s ok but i had to rewrite some plugins

[somber belfry]

everything hypixel uses is custom

[viral stone]

no

[somber belfry]

the server software the anti cheat

it’s pretty much all custom

[rotund ruin]

Still based on vanilla though

[somber belfry]

yeah?

[viral stone]

Like, they do still use some public plugins

[somber belfry]

which ones

[rotund ruin]

WorldEdit is the only one I can think of

[somber belfry]

probably only worldedit and stuff like that

[viral stone]

Don't have a list, but you can see their team having floated around in places over the years

[somber belfry]

maybe luckperms but i doubt it

i don’t think they are using a lot if any public solutions

[feral hazel]

Luckperms hasn't been around as long as when Hypixel first considered it. Very few servers change afterwards 😛

[somber belfry]

their anti cheat devs get paid like 90k a year

for a minecraft server

[somber belfry]

yeah

[rotund ruin]

They probably use postgres for their database

[somber belfry]

that’s why i said i doubt it

[viral stone]

I mean, they're a proper company

[somber belfry]

a lot of servers are

[viral stone]

They make a chunk of change and given people a proper wage for the industry they're in

[feral hazel]

That's OK. I would have thought more. But I think we're getting off topic.

[rotund ruin]

True. I gtg now anyways

[somber belfry]

same

[somber belfry]

for a minecraft server

most servers can’t afford that for their entire budget for a year

[feral hazel]

On minecraft servers, individual developers to the work that entire teams do in large companies. I think a lot of people in The minecraft scene are very underpaid.

But I think we'd better close the topic. Has nothing to do with Folia (:

[odd storm]

would an AMD Epyc 7702P be good for folia or are individual cores not fast enough ?

[viral stone]

Individual cores still have to tick the regions

epyc is generally trash for mc, even moreso for folia

[feral hazel]

If there isn't a lot going on in each region and you have a lot of regions, very good!

but yes, if there is a lot going on in the regions, then you are off to a bad start

[odd storm]

i understand the first part but why even more for folia ?

since they have a lot of cores i would assume this would be good

(sorry for the ping i didnt pay attention)

[somber belfry]

power matters to

there’s a difference between the power of 1 ryzen core vs 1 epyc core

[odd storm]

yea ik ik, but power matters for mc in general, i was wondering why he said "even moreso for folia"

[somber belfry]

i’m running my folia server off a ryzen 9 7950x

idk how well it would run on an epyc since i wouldn’t ever use that for anything else then web hosting

[somber belfry]

because it’s a low powered chip meant for web hosting

[inner swift]

The reason is that ticking individual regions also have more overhead than Paper

And also the regionization overheads

Though well, if you have little going on in each region the Epyc would be decent, it's just that its weaknesses get more highlighted due to the higher demand

[viral stone]

Folia hacks into MC, and so many operations become marginally slower, because it can't just get the information from the world, it's gotta go look up the region container stuff

it's small work on its own, but when you have hundreds if not thousands of requests for that stuff a tick, it adds up

all in all, individual regions on folia tick a fair amount slower than on paper, idk what % it is, but, it is noticable from what I've seen of people tryna use folia for, but

[odd storm]

Okay thanks a lot for your advices

[dusky wasp]

Hello, when I can expect Folia for 1.20.2 ?

[daring nimbus]

there is a 1.20.2 branch

[dusky wasp]

where, becouse when i created jar file, it started 1.20.1 not 1.20.2

[viral stone]

you check out the 1.20.2 branch

[dusky wasp]

oh deam... my bad thank yall

Why i get this error when trying to clone git ?

[arctic tapir]

remove the tree

[dusky wasp]

But then when i create folia jar, it become 1.20.1 and I need 1.20.2

maybie someone can halp me with that ?

[feral hazel]

checkout the dev/1.20.2 branch

[dusky wasp]

but when I clonw it, and build the jar file from it, it makes 1.20.1

so i think I'm just to dumb for it sadly

[feral hazel]

clone the dev/1.20.2 branch not the master branch!

this branch: https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/tree/dev/1.20.2

[dusky wasp]

and how to clone it ? Becou I try to clone it here :

[feral hazel]

https://git-scm.com/docs/git-clone#Documentation/git-clone.txt---branchltnamegt

[arctic tapir]

if you don’t know how it works you really shouldn’t use folia

[dusky wasp]

I mean everyone starts from somewhere right ?

[jaunty atlas]

Start with something much less likely to break 💪🏻

[feral hazel]

i think what mean by this is that Folia is something for people who have already had these experiences.

[dusky wasp]

I mean the only problem I have... its that i dont know how to clone branch

except that i know everything else

[feral hazel]

read this

[dusky wasp]

thanks dude

[dusky wasp]

does datapacks works with folia tho ?

[viral stone]

data, yes

command functions, no

[dusky wasp]

ok thanks

[quaint vortex]

Has the development of Folia stopped?
Is there a version later than 757cb09 available at this time?

[viral stone]

no and no

[quaint vortex]

okay thanks

[fair merlin]

Not really sure what you're asking here.

[drifting mantle]

how many cores does folia recommend

[arctic tapir]

16

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[drifting mantle]

ahh ty

[narrow tangle]

when will spark be implemented in folia?
I am using plugin version of spark on 1.20.1 folia but it does not have all the function, the MSPT show a max lag spike of 5000ms happened but i have no way to filter the spark profiler by --only-tick-over to see it

[daring nimbus]

Considering leaf implemented his own profiler in 1.20.2 folia, maybe never

[static dragon]

What can it be if chunkloader unloads only one chunk?

[viral ivy]

There's a folia branch of spark, your milage may vary. https://github.com/lucko/spark/tree/feat/folia

[warm fox]

hey are there any statistics for performance of folia on large worlds compared to other servers?

[feral hazel]

Take a look here: https://cubxity.dev/blog

[warm fox]

thanks!

[fossil vigil]

how's the world compatibility with regular paper? I'm guessing paper worlds can be converted to folia no problem, but the other way around?

[daring nimbus]

World format isn't changed, it will work both ways

[prime juniper]

I have an unlimited AWS account through an AWS sponsored event, would folia benchmarks of some kinda be useful

[timid grotto]

generally you want full access to the hardware, and i expect aws has hardware tailored to hosting web applications, not minecraft servers

but feel free to do that if you feel inclined to do so

[narrow tangle]

The utilisation is almost full to 400%, but my 5950x cpu only have 2-3 core close to 80% load and 32 thread average is 20% load from btop

Anyway to optimize this ? player have already spreaded out but tps still not good

[livid crag]

100% utilization means each thread/core is using that much. Which is exactly how you described your CPU usage

[naive fable]

increase "threads" in paper-global

[narrow tangle]

all i see is

chunk-system:
  gen-parallelism: default
  io-threads: -1
  worker-threads: -1

or

threaded-regions:
  threads: -1

settings related to thread, which one should i adjust?

[bold osprey]

threaded-regions:
  threads: -1

set it to the amount of threads that will be used for ticking regions

[narrow tangle]

i am confused by the terminology of core and hyperthreading threads, so for this parameter, the maximum number is the number of physical cores that the cpu have? or the number of hyperthreading threads?
For 5950x, it have 16 cores 32 threads, the github said after allocated cores for chunky system worker and io-thread, , the remaining cores on the system until 80% allocation (total threads allocated < 80% of cpus available) can be allocated to tickthreads (under global config, threaded-regions.threads).
both terminology are used here which confuses me.

So for all 4 of these parameters, i should count cores or threads?

i even tried to write a number which is more than the number of hyperthreaded threads i have on my cpu and the server still start up normally, what is happening.

[viral stone]

core is a core

hyperthreading gives you 2 CPU threads per core

[narrow tangle]

ok i understand that hyperthreading give 2 threads per core, but for the setting which i mentioned above, what unit of measurement does it use?
if it accept cores, the max number i should write is the number of cores, if it accept threads, i should double the number i wrote in the setting, otherwise, half of the cpu performance is wasted. (lets say i write the number of 4, does it use 4 cores of 4 threads?)

[viral stone]

it accepts threads

so, if you put 4 in, with HT, it will use "2 full threads"

Do note that utilising threads 100% comes with a sizable cost on single thread performance for that core

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[drowsy mountain]

can 8 cores comfortably work with folia?

[arctic tapir]

16

[scenic sky]

dear powercas_gamer, bad answer you provided

the good answer is no

[fair merlin]

It might start, but it'll run slower than Paper.

Doesn't make sense to use it with such few cores.

[drowsy mountain]

bro what 💀 , it wont even be using 8 cores during runtime

so how can you come up with that conclusion

[inner swift]

It's in the readme

Folia has a lot of overheads, multithreading mc comes with a significant cost

[fair merlin]

Folia is designed to use a lot of cores. That's the whole point of it.

It will most likely start up and idle on less cores. If you get people to join it then it'll probably run slower than Paper before it crashes.

[drowsy mountain]

hm ok 👌

[fair merlin]

Folia has very specific use cases. It's not just "a faster version of Paper". It has to work for your hardware and server play-style needs.

[calm fable]

where would i modify folia such that i can dupe rails like vanilla

paper.yml doesnt seem to exist

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

Where did paper.yml go?

In 1.19, paper.yml has been split into two files, both in the config directory. In paper-global.yml you will find configuration that changes behavior of the whole server, and in paper-world-defaults you will find configuration that can be overridden on a per world basis. See https://docs.papermc.io/paper/per-world-configuration for more information on overrides. The function of server.properties, bukkit.yml, and spigot.yml remains unchanged for this time.

[calm fable]

thanks mucho!

gotta say that was helpful and fast lol u guys/gals are awesome

[exotic holly]

how well would folia run on a Ryzen 9 7900x?

i assume pretty well but i read somthing about 16 core req?

[tropic otter]

+16 cores = run well
-16 cores = run bad

[sly elm]

16 or more is the recommendation, 12 may be okay though

the performance benefits of folia are emphasized by higher core counts

below a certain threshold though, you might as well be running paper because there is more initial overhead

[polar bloom]

Hey, what is the best way for testing the folia plugins? Also how to setup folia development environment? The intellij minecraft plugin has only rhe papermc. At last does the folia plugins work with papermc servers without any changes to the code? (I know that papermc plugins might not work wkth folia)

[feral hazel]

I think I don't fully understand your question.
If you want to test your Folia plugins, you can do it like any other Java Code. If you want to test your plugin on a Folia server, set up a Folia server.
I don't know what the IntelliJ plugin does, but it usually works like this. Most plugins require a code change for Folia, if thats what you mean

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[molten zephyr]

I'm looking to make one of my current plugins Folia compatible. It lets admins create lootable player heads and item frames, that respawn after a set amount of time. It works well on Paper, but after reading the available documentation I'm still a bit lost on how to proceed.

I'm aware I'll need to access ThreadedRegionisers to run the repeating tasks I need (checks active chunks once every 5 mins) but I'm not sure how to go about it. If you could link me to some resources that'd be great 🙏 struggling to find what i need atm

Here's my error:

java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: null
    at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R1.scheduler.CraftScheduler.handle(CraftScheduler.java:533) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"edafbce"]
    at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R1.scheduler.CraftScheduler.runTaskTimer(CraftScheduler.java:233) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"edafbce"]
    at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R1.scheduler.CraftScheduler.runTaskTimer(CraftScheduler.java:209) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"edafbce"]
    at org.bukkit.craftbukkit.v1_20_R1.scheduler.CraftScheduler.scheduleSyncRepeatingTask(CraftScheduler.java:204) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"edafbce"]
    at haulidaie.persistentlootables.PersistentLootables.onEnable(PersistentLootables.java:167) ~[PersistentLootables-1.5.jar:?]```

[viral stone]

the bukkit scheduler is gone

and, well, global tasks like that are generally aksing for issues

you'd generally want to try to maintain a collection of where stuff is that you care about, and then use the region scheduler to touch them

[molten zephyr]

okay, thanks. I might try relying on some different events instead of a timer, appreciate it ❤️

[tender mason]

Hello, I tried to compile folia but I get this error
"Starting a Gradle Daemon (subsequent builds will be faster)
Directory 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre-1.8' (Windows Registry) used for java installations does not exist
Directory 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre-1.8' (Windows Registry) used for java installations does not exist

Task patchCraftBukkit FAILED
Task :getPaperUpstreamData FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

• What went wrong:
  Execution failed for task 'patchCraftBukkit'.

io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false clone --no-hardlinks D:\ForMinecraft\servers\forServers\cores\forFolia\a\Folia.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper\work\CraftBukkit D:\ForMinecraft\servers\forServers\cores\forFolia\a\Folia.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper.gradle\caches\paperweight\taskCache\patchCraftBukkit.repo

• Try:

Run with --stacktrace option to get the stack trace.
Run with --info or --debug option to get more log output.
Run with --scan to get full insights.
Get more help at https://help.gradle.org."
If anyone knows how to solve this please help me

[viral stone]

try a shorter path, otherwise run with the args it says for more putput

[tender mason]

Got it, thank you

[coral remnant]

i want to convert a end world from papermc to folia
i tried moving worlds but doesnt work
i tried schematic via fawe but doesnt work(crash)
any suggestions?

[arctic tapir]

worlds are compatible

send errors

[tawdry gull]

Please send large files/logs to a pastebin

[coral remnant]

wait it works

wtf

@stable crystal

[paper scroll]

If i understand correctly folia works by having different 1024×1024 Regions on different servers. Will it ever be possibel to have a lot of Players (Lets say 1000) in one place?

[viral stone]

1. on the same server, different threads
2. No, that would require breaking the entire concept, and at that point, you can't do stuff like PvP without much more effort, which defeats the entire point of folia

[odd storm]

It feels like you are confusing with multipaper ? Regions are on the same server and depend on loaded chunks, regions can move alongside player activity they are not fixed 1024*1024 squares

[paper scroll]

Ok then i completly misunderstood folia, sry.
So what happens if a lot of players decide to go to the same spot?

[odd storm]

Lag

Crash

Unfunny stuff

Consequences

[arctic tapir]

no and no

[odd storm]

Negative

[inner swift]

The region they're in will lag

[paper scroll]

So if you want too keep the server alive then, you will need something like "If this region has more than x players teleport one away"

[odd storm]

Folia is not design for this kind of events so it will lag but that's it, and it will only lag around the group of players the isolated ones will be fine

[viral stone]

The idea is that you run it on servers in which players will naturally spread out

if you have lots of people in one region, paper would be faster

[paper scroll]

Ok thanks for the Informations!

[odd storm]

For example i'm planning on hosting a lifesteal smp, most of the time people will be spread out so folia will be great. But if i want to host some events that require players to group at spawn i would switch to paper for the time of the event. Or host it on a seperate paper server

[feral hazel]

for folia you should have full access to the hardware. Both the cores are too few and the environment (a vserver)

[inner swift]

None of your options is suitable

[feral hazel]

I think all 3 options would be worse for folia than a paper server

[inner swift]

Well, since we're talking about virtualized environments, your performance won't be predictable as it would be in a dedicated machine

[inner swift]

And well, this is likely to be the case as well

The least worse of these would be the 5800x, but

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[feral hazel]

Doesn't really change the world

[inner swift]

Wouldn't expect this to go well

[feral hazel]

yes

yes

A ryzen 7000 doesn't have 16 cores :/

[west lily]

8 isn’t enough to have any benefit over paper

[final gyro]

What do you mean Ryzen 7000 doesn't have 16 cores?

The Ryzen 9 7950X has 16 cores

For Folia to be utilize, it's better to have an server CPU like EPYC CPUs however the vcores will prohibit it to be fully utilize.

You're better off with Paper on the 5900X

[coral remnant]

im suprised that folia was able to stay alive with that many players at a thread even tho it lagged( was managing it with him)

[feral hazel]

Sorry, Ryzen 7 7000.

How big are the distances between the individual players? several thousand blocks?

[stable crystal]

yes

3k radius

might be my rtp implementation

[feral hazel]

3k radius is way too small

[coral remnant]

yo what

[stable crystal]

its a manhunt

first phase though is letting players get stuff

[feral hazel]

It doesn't matter what kind of game it is. 320 players in a radius of 3k blocks is far too much for Folia. Folia is designed for players to be widely spread around the world. If that's not the case, then you'll get better results with Paper than with Folia

[hybrid shore]

~ 1500 blocks apart from other players so folia can create another region

so 3k is way to small lol

[odd storm]

add a 0 and even then im not sure it will be enough

[static tundra]

@lost night 我认识你

[livid crag]

Please use only English on this discord. If that’s your friend, please use private message if you prefer non-English

[marsh maple]

(655a3dbc42b7936e54a59f4d) // @quiet pine (@ceoxeon / 1097097412172058645) has been banned by @jagged ether (451779815415218177)
Reason: porn spam

[fluid cradle]

Hello! I opened same-like issue 2 month ago, and see a lot of typical issues.
That Folia can't add entity off-main thread and server got crash. The main essence of the problem is that the entity is added asynchronously.
Can someone fix it?

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/167

[bold osprey]

do you use a custom version of folia?

[fluid cradle]

No

[bold osprey]

then how do you have world "world_spawn_lobby"?

[fluid cradle]

datapack

It does not affect the error, it was there without it in the end world

[bold osprey]

java.lang.IllegalStateException: World mismatch: expected world_spawn_lobby but got world

in this case it is affecting it

it adds the entity in the world threads but should be in world_spawn_lobby threads

[fluid cradle]

Nope, this error often happens on the server without any datapacks, in the world_nether and world_the_end

There’s just one more world here, so the risk of this error is higher

[bold osprey]

try removing plugins, maybe one of them is doing something stupid

[fluid cradle]

I don’t think, in any case, this is an error on the side of folia, because it tries to add/remove mobs asynchronously, which is the root of the problem, you need to move this event to sync.

[bold osprey]

there's no such thing as "sync"

[fluid cradle]

I don't know how to edit this core, It's quite hard for me, because of that - I am asking for help

[bold osprey]

and it's not related to an event

[fluid cradle]

At a minimum Folia devs could add out-of-sync entity spawn tracking to track plugins that are trying to spawn entities in synchronization

[bold osprey]

you try to add an entity from another place into this place, this place still doesn't have the control over the entity and completely other threads are still the owners of the entity

so some plugins are doing something stupid which prevents the transfer of ownership of the entity from one region (even from region from one world to another) to another region

that's the reason of the crash

so you need to find the bad plugin

that's a non folia issue, but a bad folia plugin compatibility issue

[fluid cradle]

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/162

This is not folia issue too?

[bold osprey]

that's a whole other issue

[jaunty atlas]

1.20.1 👌🏻

[fluid cradle]

She is very similar to this

[bold osprey]

you may see the same message but from the stacktrace you see that's a different situation

[bold osprey]

and also this issue is fixed on your folia version

it's just not fixed on the master branch (the 1.20.1 version)

so you need to search for the bad plugins

[fluid cradle]

What you supposed to do? I have a big project with a lot of plugins, how can I debug what plugin is causing that?
Folia's error doesn't tell me any information about this crash

[bold osprey]

it's an entity related to the player (most probably a vehicle or using the player as vehicle) which acts dumb on ownership transfer

search a plugin that can be related to that

[fluid cradle]

Thank you for information and advice

[odd storm]

Try to test plugins by dichotomy, it'll take several restarts but if you're clueless it's the only thing to do

I'm surprised that it crashes and that the action does not just fail why is that?

[bold osprey]

folia reworks lots of internals which right now doesn't expect a plugin to make strange interactions

bukkit has many more try catches because the api etc already expects that there may be an error from a plugin

i think there were even some places where in bukkit your error is caught but in folia it's not and it's propagated till a crash, but not really sure

so there's not a download button on paper website for a reason, folia isn't developed to greatly deal with plugins right now, it still didn't restore all vanilla functionality like all the commands

[odd storm]

Okay thanks a lot for the explanation that makes sense

[inner swift]

I recall Leaf expressing in the past that he wants thread safety to be very strict

[bold osprey]

the question was about not just printing the error, deal somehow with the entity (maybe even remove it) and forget about the incident, but folia just crashes
it's not about the checks

[daring nimbus]

Crashing is "hard fail" technically

[bold osprey]

better to have "hard fork" than "hard fail"

[sly elm]

It's better for it to crash in correctable cases imo

You don't want things silently mangling things, that's even worse

[livid crag]

yeah seem that before, plugins saved entities in mangled state and gratz you crash next time they are loaded.

[rocky hedge]

io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Execution of 'org.jetbrains.java.decompiler.main.decompiler.ConsoleDecompiler' failed with exit code 137. Log file: /root/folia/Folia/.gradle/caches/paperweight/upstreams/paper/.gradle/caches/paperweight/taskCache/spigotDecompileJar.log Classpath: /root/.gradle/caches/modules-2/files-2.1/io.papermc/patched-spigot-fernflower/0.1+build.6/9b5f78629421668afe04815042180c0b67c30723/patched-spigot-fernflower-0.1+build.6.jar

i got this error while build

someone help pls

[inner swift]

Code 137, out of RAM

[cinder timber]

Damn, how to give player luckperms group when he join the area. On paper I can do this using Skript or WorldGuard ExtraFlags, but none of these plugins are released for folia

[inner swift]

You'll probably have to make your own plugin

[cinder timber]

Don't have coding skills 😦

[feral hazel]

then you'll probably have to pay someone :/

[cinder timber]

Wait, is there team and tags on folia?

[lofty magnet]

I don't think so

[cinder timber]

Damn

[lofty magnet]

also why do you need to give groups? that sounds like a massive xy

just grant the permission/group based on luckperms contexts

[cinder timber]

Wanna create an event for 200+ people

[lofty magnet]

https://github.com/LuckPerms/ExtraContexts (no idea if it will work under folia though)

[livid crag]

Are the people during event going to be 3000 block away from each other...? if not, you should use Paper

[lofty magnet]

way cleaner (and more secure) than executing commands

[cinder timber]

4000

[lofty magnet]

what kind of event is that?

[hybrid shore]

What's your worldborder size

[cinder timber]

4000 x 4000

[hybrid shore]

Lol

Folia is not for you

Players must be spreaded so folia can create regions

At least ~1500 blocks

[cinder timber]

So, paper can't hold more than 70-100 players without tps drops

[livid crag]

this will not work, when I say 3000 blocks away, I mean between each players, so with 200 players, you will need to have a world size of 600k

[cinder timber]

Folia regions are so large?

[feral hazel]

given the small world size, you will still have less success with folia than with paper

[odd storm]

Folia regions cannot intersect each other so if players are close from each other all regions will fuse to make a single big one

[cinder timber]

And there is no difference between paper and folia in this case?

[odd storm]

There is

Because folia makes sacrifices for multitheading to work

So it will be worse than paper

[feral hazel]

A Folia Region has worse performance than a paper server - simply explained. And if you only use one region, you would have better performance with paper.

[odd storm]

What kind of event is it? Can't you just expand the world border?

[cinder timber]

So okay, I'll try to use paper for this, but I don't remember any cases when I coud hold more than 70 players without tps drops to +-13

[cinder timber]

Something like civilizations

[hybrid shore]

You could take a chance with other forks

[odd storm]

Multipaper maybe

[cinder timber]

Is this not abandoned?

[hybrid shore]

Nope

[livid crag]

Most event like that hosted by Youtubers/streamers alike, they use cleaver editing to mask the lack of mobs or other compermises that is just lower value of everything. You may get extra juice from some forks but that's out of scope of this support channel.

Just keep it in mind that most of the fork or MP paper has their own compermise, and that' just your job to see if that would work for you. The truth is that there is no free performance boost without drawback, if it actually exists, it will already be in Paper.

[cinder timber]

So, okay, thanks for explaining. Hope sometimes we will see multithreading in minecraft and forget about tps drops with player count more than 100

[lofty magnet]

unlikely

just create proper instancing like literally any other MMO

(which isn't called EVE 👀 )

[livid crag]

you mean you dont like to play with 0.05 tps like eve???

[odd storm]

@cinder timber i dmed you

[odd storm]

In normal paper, different worlds are still in the same thread right? No matter how much you add?

[viral stone]

correct

[thorny snow]

Yes, all api interactions need to pass throw the main thread

[odd storm]

And is there a fork that would paralelise events from different worlds? Or would you just use bungee for that point

[viral stone]

you would use bungee

as you can't really do that sorta change without breaking the bukkit API

and when you do that, you might as well go full folia

[odd storm]

So folia using different worlds is not necesseraly a bad idea?

[viral stone]

correct

each world will have its own region set

[odd storm]

That's nice

[fluid cradle]

This error happens very rarely and I don’t know how to repeat it, Folia doesn’t even give the coordinates of where it happened, so I can’t even find the player who caused it

Most likely, the easiest way would be to write a plugin that monitors all interactions with transport, yes it will load, but it will be suitable for finding the problem

[late drum]

Is there a way to get the server.jar?

[feral hazel]

only if you build it yourself

[late drum]

i only get errors, is there a guide somewhere? :O

[feral hazel]

There is a guide in the README of the paper repo

[late drum]

in the paper repo? I want the multithreaded server thingy

[viral stone]

Yes, same build instructions for paper work for folia

[feral hazel]

the process for folia is identical to paper

[late drum]

oh okay, thanks :D

[late drum]

Is the bundler.jar that i get the server.jar?

[arctic tapir]

https://tryitands.ee

[odd storm]

You do not seem to be very aware did you read the requirements for folia to be worth it on your server ? Like it's not a magic thing to go fast server go brrr

[late drum]

yes yes my server is good enough i was just confused bc this jar was named bundle and not like the usual server jar

[odd storm]

It's not a question of being good enough

[late drum]

and yes the server needs it, its a smp with the most performance sucking farms

[odd storm]

👍

Okay just making sure

[late drum]

Sorry for the dumb question, but is it possible to combine the multithreading (folia) with an fabric server?

[sly elm]

tldr; no

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[timid grotto]

Folia will NOT be ported Fabric nor Forge

[narrow tangle]

Anyone have problem with 1.20.2 mob spawning?
I am on latest commit at last friday, still, alot of animals, in 1 region with 1 player, 7000 animals within the region
Wonder anyone know the solution for this
https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/161

[viral stone]

I mean, for as big of an issue as it looks for people having it, I've not heard of too many people having it, so all one can guess is to test without plugins

[silk prism]

Though Folia don't have public builds, can I already use it for my servers ? They're KitPvP & Bedwars servers and Paper being single-threaded and based on Bukkit API which is very thread unsafe really makes my server less performant.

[feral hazel]

You can already use it. It is already used on some servers, but please keep in mind that is not officially stable yet.

[lofty magnet]

also it's highly unlikely that it will be usefull for you

[feral hazel]

why?

[lofty magnet]

because it only provides a benefit in really specific setups

[feral hazel]

KitPvP and Bedwars sounds like a lot of arenas to me

[lofty magnet]

and "KitPvP" or "Bedwars" don't really benefit from it

[paper siren]

unless you want to run multiple minigames on one server, but I doubt that's a good idea

[feral hazel]

why not? I think especially if you have a lot of arenas, as you can spread them out very well.

[lofty magnet]

simply running one Paper server per arena will be more performant (and way easier to maintain) than having a world per minigame and having them run slower than on a single paper server

[feral hazel]

that would be an issue for Velocity. This is about Folia xD

[lofty magnet]

besides the whole "have to rewrite all plugins to properly support it" issue...

[paper siren]

well you should use Velocity for what you're trying to achieve, not Folia

[feral hazel]

yes, but that has nothing to do with Folia. Of course, it would often be better to build a network for minigames. But this channel is not about questioning the technologies someone has chosen. This is about helping with Folia and compared to Paper you will certainly have better performance with Folia for KitPvP and Bedwars.

[paper siren]

I mean you can do whatever you want and report back your results, but you shouldn't have any hopes that this will somehow turn out great

[lofty magnet]

Dominik[ping_me]: you will definitely not have a better performance with lots of players sharing one Folia server vs. a sane minigames setup with Paper

properly load balanced with one minigame container per required arena isntance

of course if you are constraint by only being able to run one server for some reason or if you want to just try it out then anyone can of course go for it with Folia but realistically speaking the actual time/money required to get that running vs. just use one of the many ready setups to do it the traditional way is not an economically sound decision

[feral hazel]

yes that is correct! But that's not what it is all about here. This is about what advantages a paper server has in comparision to a folia server not about the fact that 500 individual paper servers have better performance than a folia server.

[lofty magnet]

also if the initial statement includes false information like "Bukkit API which is very thread unsafe really makes my server less performant" then I don't think an experimental software that requires deep knowledge of the inner workings of the Minecraft server is the right tool for the task

with other words: Folia is not production ready and the answer to the original question is: "no, you cannot use it in production and expect production quality"

[bold osprey]

Paper has those advantages over Folia

1. better performance per ticking thread (on folia each region will have a great performance penalty compared to paper, so a single region server will be slower)
2. better support from plugins
3. better handling of plugins doing something stupid (folia most probably will just crash if a plugin messes something up, while paper has a lot bigger chance that it will handle it better or won't even notice)
4. more api (lots of events are not called and lots of apis aren't working on Folia)
5. more vanilla commands
6. more stability
7. more vanilla functionality (like datapacks and command blocks)
8. easier to understand how to make a plugin (multithreading isn't something easy to understand)

Advantages of Folia over Paper:

1. more scalability (will be able to use more threads if players are spread)
2. if someone is trying to drop the server tps, it will only affect his region
3. better mob spawn

choose carefully what you want

so yeah, only big servers which have to use only one world, like survival, or will be able to spread the players by a lot, like skyblock, will have huge advantages

minigames won't have that

[tacit tartan]

for paper 4., * lots of apis arenn't working on Folia
and the stability point is a big one, Folia is still in an early/beta state, to the point that Paper does not distribute prebuilt jars, you have to be able to build a jar to use it, as a way of gating random people from using Folia and wondering why stuff breaks

Also unless I missed an update, Folia also only supports a single world currently, so multiverse etc isn't an option. Shouldn't be a problem for larger servers running a single thing on a single server, but for the servers that attempt to run an entire "network" (heavy on the quotes) on a single paper instance, Folia is not currently an option with that setup

[bold osprey]

changed and added that it's on folia

[bold osprey]

worlds from datapacks works as i know

so for most servers which just loads worlds and don't unload them it should be enough

but he can just write a plugin which spawns the arena of bedwards really far from each other instead of new worlds, so this also shouldn't affect him

but that's a lot of trouble for no real reason, minigames on folia is a bit just a waste of time and resources

[gleaming agate]

is there a config option to allow any plugin, even if they are not folia supported?

even important ones (for my server) like plugman and luckperms arent supported, and going to each creator and hoping they add support is unlikely as a few of my plugins are not even being worked on anymore and just happen to still work for the time being

[inner swift]

There's not

Even if there was, like 90% would break anyway, as many use the scheduler so they'd need a rewrite in that regard

[gleaming agate]

would it be possible in a future update for folia to redirect scheduler requests to be the custom one instead, as it usally just needs its own thread

because i feel like if that is the only issue it shouldnt be the worst to overcome

[sly elm]

No

[inner swift]

That doesn't sound very viable

[sly elm]

I would recommend reading through Folia's documentation to understand more why not but that's the tldr

How many players do you have on your server

[gleaming agate]

i only have a few, this is kinda future proofing right now, i can run on paper fine, but obviously any gain in performance is good

[sly elm]

Unless you start looking at hundreds of players Paper will work fine for you, optimizing your plugins and configuration and so on will get you far

Folia is intended for fairly extreme use cases

[gleaming agate]

i have slowly been working on a plugin to make it easier to update overall without updating 50+ plugins, so maybe one day i will get to the middle point of either they support or i have recreated it to work with folia

[gleaming agate]

my biggest one was since its multi-world (factions, skyblock and survival) it would be nice for faster world gen

i mean ticking

[sly elm]

It's probably slower in Folia

Folia parallelizes most things but it comes at a performance cost so at lower player counts you aren't gaining much if at all

[gleaming agate]

alright, that makes since, most multi-threaded is perfomance hit at low usage i guess, thank you for your time and answers, ill go back to papermc

[sly elm]

What Folia is good at is spreading players out and ticking a lot of regions at the same time which normally would be infeasible when you reach hundreds/thousands of players

[gleaming agate]

alright, i will keep it in mind if my server does get past a few hundrade active players, which im sure wont be for a long time but its good to at least know theres a option then

have a good day

and again thank you

[sly elm]

For sure

[timid grotto]

it would probably be cheaper to run these as their own servers in a network than it would be to get the hardware needed for folia to be worthwhile

[compact scaffold]

anyone know of a good land claim plugin compatible with folia that isnt towny?

[glossy hollow]

https://hangar.papermc.io

And filter for folia compatible

[fierce horizon]

I can‘t find Folia 1.20.2

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[jaunty atlas]

Hmm, look at the github branches

[polar bloom]

java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: arraycopy: length -1 is negative
    at java.lang.System.arraycopy(Native Method) ~[?:?]
    at java.io.PushbackInputStream.unread(PushbackInputStream.java:232) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.world.level.storage.DimensionDataStorage.isGzip(DimensionDataStorage.java:121) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.world.level.storage.DimensionDataStorage.readTagFromDisk(DimensionDataStorage.java:94) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.world.level.storage.DimensionDataStorage.readSavedData(DimensionDataStorage.java:69) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.world.level.storage.DimensionDataStorage.get(DimensionDataStorage.java:56) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.server.level.ServerLevel.getMapData(ServerLevel.java:2143) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.world.item.MapItem.getSavedData(MapItem.java:62) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.server.level.ServerEntity.sendChanges(ServerEntity.java:119) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.server.level.ChunkMap.processTrackQueue(ChunkMap.java:1133) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"df5bdfe"]
    at net.minecraft.server.level.ChunkMap.tick(ChunkMap.java:1142) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"df5bdfe"]
    at net.minecraft.server.level.ServerChunkCache.tickChunks(ServerChunkCache.java:621) ~[?:?]```

    at net.minecraft.server.level.ServerLevel.tick(ServerLevel.java:795) ~[?:?]
    at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.tickChildren(MinecraftServer.java:1676) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"df5bdfe"]
    at net.minecraft.server.dedicated.DedicatedServer.tickChildren(DedicatedServer.java:447) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"df5bdfe"]
    at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.tickServer(MinecraftServer.java:1533) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"df5bdfe"]
    at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegions$ConcreteRegionTickHandle.tickRegion(TickRegions.java:368) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"df5bdfe"]
    at io.papermc.paper.threadedregions.TickRegionScheduler$RegionScheduleHandle.runTick(TickRegionScheduler.java:385) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"df5bdfe"]
    at ca.spottedleaf.concurrentutil.scheduler.SchedulerThreadPool$TickThreadRunner.run(SchedulerThreadPool.java:525) ~[folia-1.20.1.jar:git-Folia-"df5bdfe"]
    at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:833) ~[?:?]```

I am running folia on my server and during playing I sometimes encounter this error ^. Did anybody encounter it as well/know how to fix it?

[finite hinge]

That's world corruption

How/why it's happening I couldn't say

[polar bloom]

Is it possible to fix it? For example regenerate the chunks or something

[hexed ice]

it's complaining about a map_x.dat file so that wouldn't matter

you can just delete the file to stop getting the error

[umbral tusk]

What anticheat options are there when using folia

[fair merlin]

You’d have to check to see if the plugin supports Folia.

Not sure if any popular anti-cheat plugins have been ported.

[drowsy mountain]

if i am sure, valcan prob has support

[umbral tusk]

it does not

[scenic sky]

grim supports folia iirc

[agile jay]

How many Players can handel a folia Server with 6 cores?

[viral stone]

more than 1

[agile jay]

Thats crazy

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[gentle raven]

i mean its recommended you have at least 16 cores. unless there is someone here that acutally tried a similar setup to you. you will probably just have to try and see

[viral stone]

I mean, theres more to it than just the # of cores

[agile jay]

Okay i guess i try it

[viral stone]

far much more

[arctic tapir]

javadoc ver need to be updated

[viral stone]

6 cores is pretty much at the point where running paper would generally be better

[agile jay]

But paper only uses 1 core

[viral stone]

No

paper uses 1 core for the tick thread

there are other threads in use, i.e. chunk gen, loading, plugins, network IO, etc, etc

folia introduces some pretty sizable overheads to ticking regions

hence why the recommended core count is so high, because you have to scale the # of support threads along with that too, and eat the overhead cost

[agile jay]

Hmm that makes sense

I'll test what might be better in my situation

[tranquil epoch]

actually I think the overhead is a bit more minimal these days

[tired snow]

So in the doc's I've read to use 80% of your available cores and leave the rest for overhead, is that still true then?

[finite hinge]

Oh yeah didn't you tweak the regionizer so it is more likely to make larger regions but also has less contention or something?

[tranquil epoch]

no I just re-implemented some optimisations during 1.20.2 that were dropped

[void elbow]

!install

how to build folia?

[arctic tapir]

paper readme

[rapid acorn]

trying out folia build #17 (1.20.1) on a survival server and we're running into weird spikes of 90 % utilisation in the (only) overworld region

is this something that's been fixed in the later builds, or if not, is there a build of spark or another profiler that works with folia 1.20.1 or later?

(as opposed to normal play, with relatively normal utilisation)

[inner swift]

Are you in a low core count environment? Your maximum utilisation is at 100%

[livid crag]

Either you misconfig’d or you are running on less than recommended hardware

[fair merlin]

Like the others said, you're probably running on slow hardware. Which CPU / how many cores?

Also, yes, there are a bunch of changes and improvements in later builds. If you're going to be running Folia at all you should be on 1.20.2

[rapid acorn]

yep :) i know folia isn't very useful with a low number of cores, it still seems strange for it to spike at 100 % for a few seconds only to immediately come back down

[inner swift]

Well, I'd assume it's going to get weird with 5 regions competing for one thread

I suppose you can try setting the number of region threads to 2, but

¯_(ツ)_/¯