folia-help

[golden mica]

Hey, leaf. any ETA when folia stable?

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[verbal remnant]

Valve Standard Time

Soon^tm

[scenic sky]

not soon™️

[verbal remnant]

Not the literal soon. Valve's Soon.

[scenic sky]

that also might be a bit too soon

valve's soon is becoming too fast nowadays again

[karmic yew]

How compile the proyect? i want to test it on my server

[daring nimbus]

same steps as compiling Paper

should be in the Paper readme somewhere

[karmic yew]

why all plugins dont work?

[daring nimbus]

Because plugins need to specifically support Folia

[sudden tusk]

Most would require significant rewrites in order to work with it

[karmic yew]

uff

[verbal coyote]

Hey guys, if the cmd "/save-all" is disabled, then how to I save my server??

[viral stone]

you let the server deal with it through auto saving

[verbal coyote]

ok thx

[late heart]

Hey! What save configurations should I ideally use with folia?

I mean this is in a unite of "tick"

what happens with folia?

[livid crag]

The default one aka don’t touch it

[late heart]

If I haven't had any issues with the default configuration, obviously I would not ask for help...

world saving falls behind like an hour

[livid crag]

Provide your server logs and steps to reproduce then. Instead of finding alternatives

[late heart]

there is no any additional information in logs about chunk saving o.o

[inner swift]

You'd be surprised what happens in support channels[

[late heart]

I really don't like the direction that paper goes in. Just because someone asks something it doesn't mean that you need to be rude and condescending. Also it's beta software, so issues might be present, even with world saving. 🤷‍♂️

[sudden tusk]

Nothing in that message was rude or condescending.

[bleak python]

If anything, folia being experimental is even more of a reason to provide extra info, if there are issues it is very likely it's a bug rather than your specific configuration

Better fix it for everyone in the server jar

[late heart]

Ideally, a "Why? Do you have problems with the default configurations?" would have been kind and asking me to additional information. Not for information witch obviously doesn't help anything. That's why I felt it a bit condescending / rude

[late heart]

Sure I'll try to share as many information regarding this issue as I possibly can

So let's begin with the hardware, I have a raid 5 hdd array, with a 2gb raid cache module. Until you fill the raid cache write speeds are around 2gb/s, after it fills in it goes down to 800mb/s

I don't think that could be the problem

[viral coral]

what about disk latency

iops or reading / writing a ton of small files to disk

region files are small

[viral coral]

they're not wrong though

the defaults are there for a reason

[jagged ether]

lol

[bleak python]

what's with the bio

[viral coral]

the documentation can be found on spigotmc.org's docs

[bleak python]

welcome to a free community driven project

[marsh maple]

(64680410bdf5bc20f3ccc49e) // @prime juniper (817320973723369482) has been warned by @sudden tusk (71627708521512960)

[viral coral]

or our own documentation for any paper specific modifications

but there aren't many for saving

[bleak python]

paper has too

[viral coral]

folia is built on top of paper

paper is built on top of spigot

spigot is built on top of bukkit

[sly elm]

would you like to help document it

[sudden tusk]

Pull requests to our documentation are welcome.

[foggy blaze]

great idea! I'm so happy you're offering to contribute to the project!

[bleak python]

but this shit takes time and not everyone can spend every waking moment and document every single conceivable thing, which is why contributions are always welcomed

[late heart]

okay so how does folia count "bukkit ticks"?

[late heart]

.

is there a separated thread just to measure time?

[viral coral]

time is global across all regions

it doesn't change in folia

[sudden tusk]

There's a happy global thread that chugs along and keeps time up to date. It's love.

[inner swift]

There is a wiki on all settings

[viral coral]

for any paper settings you can look at the docs, for any spigot settings you can look at spigot's docs

not much to it

[late heart]

ah I see, first I tought that it counts the unit as seconds

since the world save was behind kinda the same amount

The values that I have changed from default to try to counteract

just curious if Im taking steps in the right direction

max-auto-save-chunks-per-tick: 64

auto-save-interval: 1200

[sudden tusk]

Does folia log establish how many threads exist for different things like chunk loading/saving?

[late heart]

player-auto-save:
max-per-tick: 20
rate: 1200

[tranquil epoch]

max ticks per autosave is per region, and there isn't any difference with respect to tick

[late heart]

so saving happens / region and the ticks are counted per region?

[tranquil epoch]

yeah the ticks are maintained per region

[late heart]

did anyone also notice the save falling behind?

[tranquil epoch]

that's hard to quantify

[late heart]

I had I would say "extreme" tps differences per regions, but I don't see how that could interfere with saving

[tranquil epoch]

well the save system operates on ticks, not time

so if your tickrate falls behind so does the save rates and the interval of saving

[late heart]

I'll gather more information, and let you know If I found any additional information about why it could be happening / how to reproduce.

[livid crag]

that will be much appreciated

[willow dock]

Hello)
Sorry for the stupid question, but how do I run PlaceholderAPI on folia? Is there any way? I use velocity + folia

[hexed ice]

PlaceholderAPI has a dev branch for folia support, you need to wait for them to finish that

[willow dock]

Ok, thx for the answer)

[sudden tusk]

I imagine a lot of placeholderapi extensions would need updating. Hope they're doing a folia support flag on extensions too...

(the number of weird extensions Ive seen people use that access world data...)

[unkempt aurora]

really?

How can I help with Folia development?

[inner swift]

#folia-dev message

[ivory dust]

Does FAWE support folia yet?

[naive fable]

What is the minimum distance between regions?

[inner swift]

If I understand this correctly, upper range of 768 blocks for VD=10

[naive fable]

Thanks

[finite hinge]

That's not between regions, that's the "radius" of a region

So double that

[inner swift]

Are you sure? Leaf did say 50x50 box which implies radius 25

[finite hinge]

He didn't say I got it wrong when he was explaining it to me and this is what I ended up with:

Leaf described it as view-distance 10 means chunks in a radius of 11 around a player will be brought to full loaded which is ticket level 33. The system will create chunk holders up to ticket level 45 (apparently in a flood fill manner) so it touches an extra 13 radius out from there for a total of a 24 chunk radius. Current region section size is 16x16 chunks so that fits in 2 sections. Then the regionizer creates an empty section around non-empty for buffer so you get 3 sections, 48 chunks, or 768 blocks

That's all "radius"

[inner swift]

Err

@ EterNity, can you get leaf here to clarify pls

[bleak python]

ping him

[wide ginkgo]

What hardware was used for the following test?
#folia-testing message

[viral coral]

see pins in that channel

[knotty egret]

hello

what is wrong

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @knotty egret: https://pastes.dev/Ui4rwuiCzr

[arctic tapir]

did you git clone?

[knotty egret]

yes

I try ./gradlew applypatches but doesn't work

[arctic tapir]

can you show the whole log

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @knotty egret: https://pastes.dev/NcuzL8VsH2

[arctic tapir]

do it directly on C:

[knotty egret]

wdym

[arctic tapir]

go to C:

clone there

[knotty egret]

why

[arctic tapir]

because windows is dumb

and you're doing it in OneDrive which also isn't good

[knotty egret]

same

@arctic tapir ```PS C:\Oyunzor\Folia> ./gradlew applypatches

Task :paper:applyApiPatches FAILED
Task :getPaperUpstreamData FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

• What went wrong:
  Execution failed for task ':paper:applyApiPatches'.

io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false reset --hard upstream/upstream

• Try:

Run with --stacktrace option to get the stack trace.
Run with --info or --debug option to get more log output.
Run with --scan to get full insights.

• Get more help at https://help.gradle.org

BU¦LD FAILED in 19s

[willow dock]

Windows has always had some problems xD

Try gradlew clean and then run the build again

[knotty egret]

nope it doesn't work but i fix it, I updated git and deleted the file named index.lock (https://github.com/PaperMC/paperweight/issues/166)

[willow dock]

Windows is to blame anyway. Everything is properly built on Linux

[knotty egret]

That's not the point of discussion, but I don't see a problem use Windows.

I like it

[daring nimbus]

You could use WSL

that does work fine with Paperweight

[marsh maple]

(646a7765bdf5bc20f3ccc4a9) // @radiant sorrel (647505078340550656) has been banned by @livid crag (177150983258767360)

[lone grove]

could someone send me a foila jar

i cant seem to get it build

built*

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[jovial helm]

Paper's CONTRIBUTING doc should tell you how to build

[formal remnant]

So I’ve been out to the mc game for while. How does folia compare to Purpur or other forks now?

[left dirge]

Folia aims to solve a different issue.
Not really comparable to Purpur.

[unkempt aurora]

I think, Purpur pretty much adds just more configuration

[obtuse raptor]

Yeah basically

There won't be anything near purpur folia tho

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[wide hedge]

I have same issue

[knotty egret]

@wide hedge

[wide hedge]

Thx, I don't think I'm in the good directory

I don't have the index.lock file

[viral stone]

I mean, if the api repo is locked, it won't be in the main repo

depends on what actually caused it and what the actual error was

[wide hedge]

Thx, Here?

[viral stone]

no

Show the actual error

[viral stone]

137

you ran out of ram

[wide hedge]

oh i'm sorry

thx for you help

[slender anvil]

help

[wicked mantle]

Don't run it in the git bash shell on windows. Either do it in windows through powershell or in WSL

[wicked mantle]

Imma assume the non-latin characters might be fucking it up but not 100% sure.

[daring nimbus]

did you run applyPatches?

[wicked mantle]

oh duh didn't even notice that

[slender anvil]

yes

[daring nimbus]

and that worked without errors? hmm

Maybe try moving it to a different location that only has latin characters in the path, that might mess with things (as mja said )

[slender anvil]

oh

[slender anvil]

applyPatches

nice

[wicked mantle]

woo!

[slender anvil]

this was the problem. 👍

[wicked mantle]

Kinda assumed it was. Lots of programs shit themselves when they come across non-latin characters lol

[slender anvil]

fr

[wicked mantle]

Glad you got it fixed tho

[sudden tusk]

Works fine for meeeee (after thrashing around for five minutes)

[wicked mantle]

Hush

[sudden tusk]

I acknowledge it's slower but it's fine enough since I'm not doing it constantly

[trim cobalt]

Does EssentialsX work in Folia? Dont load for me but wanna be 100% sure.

[wicked mantle]

I think there’s a branch for it

[trim cobalt]

Oh

[wicked mantle]

Idk if it’s done yet

[trim cobalt]

I'll have a look.

Is there alternatives?

[livid crag]

Some Part of the functions are working. Look at gh

[wintry bough]

any tablist plugins for Folia?

[golden mica]

TAB

[paper mauve]

Hi all
who has applied Folia to a fabric or forge?

very sadly

[paper mauve]

what chunkload can be set for player on the server with the Folia core,
Here are the example specifications of the server:
32GB DDR4
16 CORES I9
512GB SSD

What view range can be set on the server?

🧐

[livid crag]

See readme for example

[paper mauve]

I don't see anything about the distance

[cerulean citrus]

Fobia minecraft version?

Does anyone know when Fobia will be officially released? to use on my server

[bleak python]

there is no eta

[hexed ice]

Folia is version 1.19.4

[cerulean citrus]

And there is no estimate? for example if it will be this year

[ivory dust]

I might make a fork and publish builds

I liked some of the ideas from Kaiiju

[bleak python]

builds are available via the downloads api or you can build it yourself; but it's still experimental software that is not ready to be used in production environments

[cerulean citrus]

And when it is released, will it only be for new versions? because I have a server but I use 1.16.5 because it's better for me in performance, that is, with that version I can support more players simultaneously than with 1.19.4

[daring nimbus]

1.19.4 Paper is also faster than 1.16.5 Paper

and no, Folia won't be backported to old versions

[dusty aurora]

is folia on 8 threads slower than paper on an smp server with 80 players?

[cerulean citrus]

Yes, but I saw that to host 1.19.4 better components are required on the PC

[daring nimbus]

8 threads is way below the min requirements, very likely yes

[cerulean citrus]

If I upload folia to a host page and run it there, will it work as it should or does it not meet the minimum requirements?

[ivory dust]

Most hosts share cpu

[finite hinge]

There is no 16 core i9

Ignore the efficiency cores, they don't really count for this

Like, they might help, but they might also make your whole system slower until you disable them completely

They definitely don't count as a full core

[left dirge]

8c16t i9

[left dirge]

Yeah, ikt. Just clarifying that threads are likely shown.

[tranquil epoch]

e-cores would be better if the scheduling could be controlled

[weary wren]

So, is folia more like waterfall? Or is it more like paper?

[daring nimbus]

Waterfall is a proxy. Thats something completely different

[weary wren]

Ok. So, folia is not a proxy. Right?

[viral coral]

folia is server software

[weary wren]

Folia is a server.

[daring nimbus]

yes

[weary wren]

Ok. Then how does one server split itself for better performance like folia does? My head can't wrap around that.

[viral coral]

it doesn't

[weary wren]

My reaction is your pfp.

[viral coral]

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia#overview

[weary wren]

Thanks

[viral coral]

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/reference/overview

[weary wren]

So, it just separates threads?

[viral coral]

it's multithreaded region ticking

[weary wren]

Ah ok. Thank you. I think I understand better.

[viral coral]

Folia splits the chunks within all loaded worlds into independently ticking regions so that the regions are ticked independently and in parallel.

[golden mica]

So is there a way to use e-core? My current number of servers is about 150, and I use 13700k, so I am struggling whether to switch to 7950x

[inner swift]

They will be used

They're just not nearly as good as P cores

[wicked mantle]

Iirc Intel mentioned they're equivalent to ~3.5GHz mobile skylake cores

[orchid spear]

"Ideally, at least 16 cores (not threads)." requirements are insane.

basically the whole dedicated server just for 1 MC server.

[paper siren]

well the idea is that this one server can hold hundreds of players

[orchid spear]

Scalability was usually solved horizontally. (By deploying multiple servers and connecting them with proxy)

[paper siren]

and the requirements are just an orientation, basically the assumption is that you're better off using Paper on smaller scale

[fair merlin]

And it still is with Paper. Folia has different goals.

[errant wyvern]

I remember the time when 1.8 could hold hundreds of players. Now we need something like Folia

[daring nimbus]

1.8 also had half the content, so thats natural. And you still needed to disable some stuff

[errant wyvern]

But the player count dropped more than half. On the same hardware from 300 to max 80

[vague kite]

no code runs faster than no code, that's basically 1.8

[paper mauve]

old xeon cpu good for folia?

16 cores but ddr3 and 2.5ghz

or i9 13900 better than?

[daring nimbus]

You still want at least decent single core performance, and the xeon probably doesn't have that. And slow RAM always hurts

But the i9 only has 8 P cores. Both aren't great imo

[sudden tusk]

You want latest and greatest cores, and a lot of them. Need both power and quantity.

[ivory dust]

I want to get the newest xeon with 334 cores lmao

[ivory dust]

I run a 64 gb + 8c/16t i7 6900k server for folia

I’m gonna get an epyc 7551

[inner swift]

How's the performance, out of curiosity?

[ivory dust]

Pretty smooth so far, I ran tests with 1k+ bots and it maintained good tps in new regions. Chunk generation got slow with 6 threads though

I use 8 threads for regions + 6 for chunks

[solar ledge]

That's cool

Chunk generation or loading?

[idle furnace]

These values seem too good to be true. How many regions you got on top, and with or without chunk generation?

[ivory dust]

very simple bots

had like 6-7 regions

[finite hinge]

Bots are basically just chunk loaders

They aren't running farms, making machines, wandering, etc

[golden mica]

hey, I want to ask any plugins could display 80+ players in tab

[proud mountain]

NOlia

• A nonexistent Minecraft server software with no code
• Runs faster than any other server software

[blissful forge]

Anyone know how to access the build jars of FAWE's folia support files? It's not on their jenkins and I'd really like to use it

[jagged ether]

Ask FAWE

And if the source code is anywhere then it's definitely in their repo

[pseudo ibex]

Go to their GitHub, under Pull Requests, there’s a icon that says Folia something. In that there’s a FAWE folia jar.

[blissful forge]

ouu thank nyou

[inner swift]

<@&748618676189528155>

[marsh maple]

(6470ea44051c4a11e9c359e6) // @modern fulcrum (poyfi#7267 / 717106063417278554) has been banned by @sharp raven (271510274475819008)
Reason: spam links

[viral coral]

ok.

[sharp raven]

lfg aberdeeners first ban

[verbal remnant]

The true end game optimization for MC

[sudden tusk]

I legitimately want to see performance of folia on Epsilon GC (performance boost, and how long it lasts before falling over)

[pseudo ibex]

what does lfg stand for?

[wicked mantle]

lets fucking go

[pseudo ibex]

oh hahahah

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[fair merlin]

You have to build it yourself

[willow dock]

Hello)
Which configuration would be more preferable for Folia? Where there are more cores or where the frequency is higher?

[viral coral]

both suck and are below folia's requirements

if you're renting a virtual server, you do not need or want folia

[willow dock]

But if we talk specifically about the frequency or number of cores. What would be better?

[urban stag]

Is multipaper better than Folia?

[bitter jasper]

So anything below 16 cores we shouldnt run Folia??

[livid crag]

You can but you aint going to have the best performance.

Can you run your car with vegetable oil? you can but it aint going to run well. (do not try this at home)

[willow dock]

Well said. But on hardware that has a low frequency per core, Paper works poorly. Folia shows the best results. Yes, it will not be possible to accommodate 1000 players there, but this hardware will be enough for hundreds

[willow dock]

Folia wins. Because she has active support and updates. MultiPaper is also well implemented, but it will most likely cease to be supported by the author soon

[finite hinge]

https://www.greasecar.com/

[golden mica]

@tranquil epoch hey, leaf any plan that add back vanilla command? like worldborder

[orchid wigeon]

Would a region crashing take down the entire server? How would stuff like that be handled

[daring nimbus]

This happened during tests a few times. It doesn't crash the entire server usually. Players that were at locations in that region when logged out can no longer log in, and players connected can no longer interact with the world or leave the region. But for everyone else it's not noticeable

[pseudo ibex]

How interesting

But it’s nice

[tranquil epoch]

a region crashing initiates a shutdown these days

[daring nimbus]

nawww, it was a nice "feature"
but yeah, guess thats safer

[orchid wigeon]

Memory corruption is pretty fun though

It'd be nice if it didn't shut the server down but instead just disconnected everyone in said region until it "rebooted"

[finite hinge]

I think the reasoning is a crashed region could have broken just about everything else along the way to getting there

If it was clear how to clean up after it safely and just remove it then it wouldn't have crashed to begin with

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[pseudo ibex]

Is this from one of the Folia plugins not being thread safe? https://spark.lucko.me/8CsMHU8VYn

[viral stone]

No real info exists there

[fair merlin]

Yeah not a lot to go on.

I wouldn't run Spartan on Paper, though, let alone Folia

[pseudo ibex]

😗

[pseudo ibex]

hahahha

[fair merlin]

If it hasn't been updated for Folia you definitely shouldn't run it.

But it's not known for having the best performance in general, so I'd be hesitant to run it on something that's doing a bunch of new multi-threaded region stuff.

[viral stone]

21:19]electronicboy: "Hey, I heard that you dislike when people say that your plugin is trash, and so I'd just like to mention that spartan is a highly reliable and functional piece of software"
[21:19]electronicboy: <image>
[21:19]electronicboy: Now, could you please stop lagging my server

[pseudo ibex]

hahhahah is that on your server?

[viral stone]

server I was contracting for

[pseudo ibex]

hahah big g

I mean f

So like what do you use instead?

NCP?

[fair merlin]

But yeah if a plugin hasn't explicitly updated for Folia I wouldn't use it on Folia.

[viral stone]

idk what AC software people are caring about these days, tbqh

[fair merlin]

You're also running NCP at the same time which seems odd

[viral stone]

I think grim was supposed to be the next big thing

[fair merlin]

And your CPU only has 8 cores

[viral stone]

NCP is like the grandma which is still fine for what it is

[fair merlin]

So not sure if Folia is the best choice for you in general

Guess it depends on what you're trying to do.

I dunno if they're gonna update Grim for Folia.

Good question

[viral coral]

hear me out

just don't run an anticheat

[daring nimbus]

😮

[pseudo ibex]

Ha well I use Spartan for anti combat, and NCP for everything else. I had to disable a few checks on each of them because I wanted to have bedrock players join.

[pseudo ibex]

Hahaha ayoo???

[tranquil epoch]

classic minigame server

[fair merlin]

Bedrock on Folia? It really sounds like you should be running Paper.

[viral stone]

back when I used to run a server, my players did a far better job of detecting cheaters than any anti cheat software we used

[pseudo ibex]

Ha I am slowly updating all the plugins I am using to Folia which is why you probably saw a lot of common plugins like ProtocolLib and such on Folia

[pseudo ibex]

Ha fair, I would have informants like that as well. But they would usually find them and destroy
their bases or troll them for snitching lol

[pseudo ibex]

Any ideas on how I could get more info on the drastic tps fluctuations?

[viral stone]

Well

big thing is going to be to look at the other threads too

all we can see is that the region threads are mostly sleeping

which, I mean

could be good in that they're not going balls to the wall

but, could also mean that stuff is delaying the work from being actually ran

[pseudo ibex]

Hmmmmm okay this is definitely something to go off of, but any suggestions or recommendations on what I should do though lol?

[viral stone]

watch all threads

or hook up something like yourkit or watever which can drill in a bit better

[pseudo ibex]

Okay!

Oh yea and most of these plugins I had PR done, I am hoping ProtocolLib as well

[pseudo ibex]

Hahah oh yea and my nitro expired which means I can’t make giant list like this unless I want to send it as a file, so pasted it here on Google Drive Sheets - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/3/d/e/2PACX-1vQPwT-7togb-Y-fOcHQtNuPj38MaeXRkCgnqi46LcU99MOOHgOBdln79vya8yMrg8slpLRZHx5ZXKOW/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true pretty much only Citizens, Dynmap, Multiverse-Core, Multiverse-NetherPortals, Parkour, TNTRUN_Reloaded, Playerkits, Themis PremiumVanish and mcMMO have not been updated, but all other 55 plugins have.

Hahaha and yes I did get someone to port CommandBlockAsPlayer to Folia, but command blocks don’t work so it was a waste of time lol.

[ivory dust]

Is there a link to FAWE beta build for folia or is it compile yourself?

[pseudo ibex]

Yea

There is one

[ivory dust]

Jenkins?

[pseudo ibex]

Nope PR in their GitHub

[livid crag]

Chunkyborder just finished and fully support Folia. https://github.com/pop4959/ChunkyBorder/commit/06c6d345f73b242a704fced445874525786e899d

[golden mica]

my friend solve this i know that

thanks : )

[livid crag]

I think chunkyborder is better since Vanilla one can be exploited and people can still get out. You should tell your friend @golden mica

[golden mica]

i got it

but chunkyborder could not let the border move

[hexed ice]

I was planning on switching to chunkyborder soon so that's some pretty nice timing

[livid crag]

yeah @sly elm is epic

[hexed ice]

no more unmaintained WorldBorder fork for me

[livid crag]

on my old server, I juse both, I set the vanilla one a bit more blocks away and use chunky one to teleport people back.

[golden mica]

maylike worldborder set xxxx
worldboreder set xxxx xxxx s

you could let it move automatic

[sly elm]

lol I do the same thing

[sly elm]

yeah I saw the PR btw, there were a few bugs with it, I just went and fixed them because I realized there wasn't actually much needed to support folia

[livid crag]

I like it when I can see the vanilla border animation a bit further and disallow players to get close so it doesnt look ugly when people build close to the edge.

[golden mica]

As you say, chunkyborder is a mildly way. Vanilla I could let them Get Killed

[livid crag]

[golden mica]

Chunkyborder just teleport

[sly elm]

that addon is pretty much just a copy of the old WorldBorder plugin by Brettflan with a few extra bells and whistles

[golden mica]

So any function that could make it move

I mean automatically

[golden mica]

Have you ever encountered this problem?

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/81

[bitter jasper]

Hey
I want to test Folia, how do i compile it into a jar?

[hexed ice]

see the paper readme

[round tide]

Hi dear developers, i wanna ask will Folia work with other server cores like Airplane/Patina/Purpur etc. or just with PaperMc?

[arctic tapir]

what

[round tide]

what exactly u didn't get?

I mean as i read folia is an offshoot of papermc, but i wanna know can Folia as a system that allows you to have multithreading on servers in minecraft work with other cores?

Fore xmpl can u install airplane core + folia together on minecraft server ?

[paper siren]

Folia is a minecraft server

[naive fable]

He meant other upstreams than paper

[paper siren]

well people can do whatever the license of the project allows, but Folia won't change its upstream

[round tide]

As i read here https://paper-chan.moe/folia/ Folia is a fork of PaperMC.

"What is Folia?

Folia is a new fork of Paper that adds regionized multithreading to the server. Access to Folia builds isn't currently available. To build Folia, you need to compile from source following Paper's standard compilation guide." ok now i see

[livid crag]

That's out of scope of the channel here. As SirYwell said, you can do anything you want with it (Folia) accordingly to the license.

[round tide]

Can i read a Lisence please ?

[livid crag]

I mean its on the github...

[round tide]

found it

[lunar moth]

So I know I need to build the folia jar myself, Once I've downloaded the zip and extracted it, do I run install.bat to get the jar? Also will command prompt work, or will I need something like git bash? I plan to run local for dev testing.

[paper siren]

You should clone the repo, not download the zip

[pseudo ibex]

I wonder, will there be another Folia stress test like there was on the announcement of Folia?

[mystic marsh]

Why not use cncp since it should automatically do it for bedrock players

[pseudo ibex]

CNCP as in Compact No Cheat Plus?

[mystic marsh]

yeah

[pseudo ibex]

From what I know NCP supports folia, but CNCP does not.

[mystic marsh]

wait how can it support folia if it isn’t released though

[pseudo ibex]

Ohhh wait, you are asking me about this lmaooo

[mystic marsh]

I don’t know much about folia

[pseudo ibex]

It can support it because you can still build it. It’s just in beta so there’s no official location to get the jars.

[mystic marsh]

why would cncp not support folia

[pseudo ibex]

Schedulers and such

Anyways if I did use CNCP it just ignores certain checks for bedrock players, so they would still be able to cheat.

[pseudo ibex]

Hahaha I found that exact spark profiler - https://spark.lucko.me/gdvM442yLD it was in a Special Spartan discord. Did he contract you lol?

[mystic marsh]

doesn’t themis have support for that

[pseudo ibex]

The Themis anti cheat does not support Folia, and it’s obfuscated. He mentioned he might consider making it open source if he abandons it. If he did, it would probably be a lot easier to add Folia support to it.

[mystic marsh]

wait so are you using folia right now for your server even in beta?

[pseudo ibex]

Nope, I’m just converting plugins to support Folia before switching. Out of 55 plugins, I have around 42 compatible with Folia. The main ones that are missing are Multiverse-Core which I will probably just replace, Citizens, and Dynmap.

[mystic marsh]

Oh damn dynmap

Rip

[pseudo ibex]

??

What about it lol?

[mystic marsh]

It’s unfortunate it’s not compatible

[pseudo ibex]

I could switch to BlueMap I heard it supports it.

[mystic marsh]

a plugin I used doesn’t support bluemap so rip for me

I heard bluemap is good tho

[pseudo ibex]

Most plugins aren’t though, a lot of the plugins that I have support for Folia are Forks, and PR’s.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/3/d/e/2PACX-1vQPwT-7togb-Y-fOcHQtNuPj38MaeXRkCgnqi46LcU99MOOHgOBdln79vya8yMrg8slpLRZHx5ZXKOW/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true

[mystic marsh]

I’m sure most would update for compatibility, no?

[pseudo ibex]

Here’s a list

[pseudo ibex]

Most are waiting until it is officially released

[steep elbow]

thanks:D

[pseudo ibex]

For the list?

[mystic marsh]

thank you

[steep elbow]

ye

[pseudo ibex]

No problem!

It took at least 2 months to get there

[steep elbow]

coreprotect has support if u compile it ur self
next release will have official support

[pseudo ibex]

Hahahha

[pseudo ibex]

Ohhh very neat. I don’t have Core Protect, but I can add that to the list.

[steep elbow]

oh is that only plugins u need:D?

[pseudo ibex]

Yea before Folia goes to Production on my server.

I could also use ZNPC instead of Citizens

For Folia

[steep elbow]

in case u need some core plugin with most essentials commands&economy&lots of stuff here is my coreplugin:D
https://github.com/motimaa-net/MotiCore

has branch for folia (not tested verywell)

[steep elbow]

https://github.com/FancyMcPlugins/FancyNpcs
that one has folia support?, if u check previous commits it says "Add support for Folia"

[pseudo ibex]

https://github.com/Pyrbu/ZNPCsPlus/issues/38

[pseudo ibex]

Ohh very neat

[pseudo ibex]

I don’t use that one, so I wouldn’t know, but if you want I can test it.

[steep elbow]

naa it was just for u incase u needed some npc plugin:D

[pseudo ibex]

Ohh hahah well thanks.

[viral stone]

that's a different person and spark report

[pseudo ibex]

Oh hahahahhahhahah

[round tide]

how many servers use folia now ?

[livid crag]

https://bstats.org/plugin/server-implementation/Folia/18084

[round tide]

oh crap

nice

[pseudo ibex]

I didn’t know they had stats like this

[daring nimbus]

most of them probably not production servers though

[pseudo ibex]

Yea I wouldn’t think

[livid crag]

pretty normal for something that's not even offiically released/stable yet

[round tide]

its like servers 4 testsing or something?

[daring nimbus]

development and testing, yeah

[round tide]

ok good job btw

Can i know how many time Folia will be supported?

[livid crag]

The continue support is planned. There aint really no EOL in terms of any project under PaperMC

the only thing that's unsupported is older versions when new one comes out.

[round tide]

Noted

[sudden tusk]

The one running 2 cores is my favorite!

[round tide]

Does it mean that we will be able to use multithreading on minecraft servers in the near future?

[sudden tusk]

You can use multithreading on minecraft servers right now. And could a few years ago. Plenty of stuff in the server has run off the main thread for years.

[livid crag]

as mbax said Paper is currently technically already multithreaded, even Vanilla is. Folia is speical as it also apply it to break down the main event loop.

[round tide]

didn't know that

[round tide]

wich means that Folia were developes for high online servers?

[pseudo ibex]

?

[sudden tusk]

Folia is meant for servers with ridiculous player counts and large budgets to run highly powerful machines.

[livid crag]

The implementation supports it yes but nothing stops you from running it for small server if you happen to have a 32 core modern cpu laying around

[round tide]

i see i see , now it explains for me

Do i need Folia if i want to start my own server fo 60-100 players?

[livid crag]

Paper is likely the recommendation here.

[round tide]

Ok

[livid crag]

with ooptimization/compermise to certain aspect of gameplay yes.

[round tide]

Vanilla for example

With some plugins like anticheat and stuff

[pseudo ibex]

I know Folia you will need a lot of cores, but what if you just use 3 threads?

[round tide]

i join to this question

and same q but if i have 12 cores 4 exmpl

[fair merlin]

Same answer as always: it’ll choke. You should use Paper instead.

Not designed for low core or low thread count. Doesn’t make sense to use it on low cores or low threads.

[subtle oriole]

I think I read that Waterfall was going to be deprecated in favor of Velocity somewhere

[livid crag]

We gonna deprecate spigot too

[fair merlin]

Don't think we have any plans for that on the books or anything, so not sure where you read that.

[orchid wigeon]

I suppose if you wanted to use folia in the future when it's released you'd have to migrate your server to a higher core cpu

[round tide]

at least 32 cores must be used for Folia? or it can be less?

[lunar moth]

OK, so I have my local repo of Folia that I cloned, now how do I make a jar to run to test my plugins with?

[livid crag]

same way you output a paper jar. so just replace paper instruction with folia.

[lunar moth]

I download paper from the site. Do I run the jar.bat?

[steep elbow]

also u gotta build the folia 2x for some reason it fails on first time

[arctic tapir]

sounds like an issue on your end

[steep elbow]

weird issue, rebuilding fixed

[steep elbow]

confirmed its not issuue on my side my friend also had error first time

[arctic tapir]

works for me 1st try

[scenic sky]

also fine for me

[steep elbow]

I mean when u built it the first time ever

if i now build it its fine

[arctic tapir]

yes i just tried it on a clean install

[steep elbow]

did u reset gradle cache?

[arctic tapir]

it was a clean install

never used gradle on it

[pseudo ibex]

I see a lot of people asking how to make this. Would you guys think it would be dubius of me if I made a YouTube video on how to compile Folia and Paper? I know this project is still in its infancy, so I wouldn’t think you would approve of such a thing, but I thought I would ask.

[pseudo ibex]

That’s fair, it was just a hypothetical. I should be okay.

[arctic tapir]

there’s a wrapper

[blazing bough]

Can I run Folia on this?:
https://hackaday.com/2022/11/23/the-13-5-million-core-computer/

[timid grotto]

i dont think so

[blazing bough]

... but .... cores!

[timid grotto]

its likely just multiple computers that talk to each other

[blazing bough]

On a serious note: Thank you to all the developers of Folia. It's an ambitions project and I appreciate that you have so far continued to address the continuous stream of "where do I get the .jar" and "Can I run this on my 486?" in a professional and polite manner.

[timid grotto]

also afaik folia cant even use 2 cpus in the same computer

[sudden tusk]

I don't think it's "can't" so much as "might actually struggle with the additional latency" but I'm not the professional here

[blazing bough]

I have a dual CPU Xeon X5650. 24 total threads! Surely it's good enough!

(I do .. and no I won't be trying it!)

[sudden tusk]

#folia-help message

[blazing bough]

Is there a challenge to support NUMA? Would it help anything? Make more systems appropriate for Folia? Or just add support for a niche hardware configuration?

[golden mica]

13700k close E-core

[wicked mantle]

e-cores

[tranquil epoch]

impressive

[pseudo ibex]

You must be the person who did https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/pull/63, right?

[wicked mantle]

no

me making a pr

[pseudo ibex]

[simple frigate]

Is the single 64 core CPU system better than dual 32 core CPU system for 1 folia server?

[blazing bough]

Yes.

[golden mica]

I found a BUG, when the entity passes through a nether portal in the world, a nether protal will be generated in the nether

But according to the wiki https://minecraft.fandom.com/zh/wiki/下界传送门?so=search

Most entities can teleport through Nether Portals, including various creatures (except Withers and Ender Dragons), ships, minecarts, projectiles, and item entities, but if one creature rides the other, neither creature can pass through the portal. Since only the player can make a portal spawn in another dimension, none of the entities mentioned above can pass through a portal that does not have an activated door in the corresponding dimension.

[steep elbow]

oh shiet cool:)

[ivory dust]

Selling folia builds to noobs for 10$

jk lmao

[viral coral]

i mean it is available on the api

if you're competent enough to figure the api out then good luck have fun

[iron star]

Anyone know where I can grab the experimental Folia-compatiable spark build? Not seeing it anywhere on git but I see people saying it's compatible found the branch im dumb ignore me

[pseudo ibex]

Ha

[iron star]

Its always when I ask that I find what I'm looking for, an unforgiving curse.

[pseudo ibex]

I know almost nothing about processors. I know these aren’t enough, but Out of these 2 which one would be better for Folia?- https://spark.lucko.me/gbdbb801Yt or https://spark.lucko.me/DlNiRNQTOm hahaha before you say none of them because this isn’t enough for Folia, these are both just test servers. So it’s not a trick question.

[fair merlin]

Neither

[golden mica]

[18:14:13 ERROR]: POI data mismatch: never registered at BlockPosition{x=33, y=68, z=1142}
[18:14:13 ERROR]: POI data mismatch: never registered at BlockPosition{x=35, y=68, z=1142}

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @golden mica: https://pastes.dev/oH6b8yT5Dh

[inner swift]

That's not Folia

kaiiju-1.19.4.jar:git-Kaiiju-"d9ad730"

[golden mica]

I think Folia is in the stage where it needs to find and fix the problem, and if the problem is found in Folia's fork, I think it is necessary to remind it in order to better update Folia, unless it is fatal to the code

[sudden tusk]

😆

Reproduce the issue on Folia itself, and then come to us 🙂

[viral stone]

We can't accept bug reports from random software on the internet, we have no idea what changes or state that software is in

[wicked mantle]

Especially since that fork does a lot of fuckery

[wide ginkgo]

Is there intentions on supporting NUMA in the future?

[viral stone]

I mean

afaik, if there was a NUMA support issue, it would be 100% on the JVM to fix that

[wicked mantle]

I believe NUMA works but performance takes a bit of a hit

[viral stone]

outside of that, there is no real magical fix for NUMA issues which isn't "rewrite the software from the top so that you can isolate data properly so that the NUMA hit isn't anywhere near as bad"

[fair merlin]

I think it was mostly “I don’t wanna mess with NUMA right now”

[viral stone]

problm is that NUMA has to basically be talked across the two chips

it should "just work", so to speak

just, ofc, fixing the performance costs of numa isn't really trivial as most of it afaik boils down to tryna limit data access

[fair merlin]

I forget what the primary concerns were last time I asked

[wicked mantle]

Pretty sure leaf mentioned it's really only a performance issue, at least from a quick glance at him mentioning it

Basically haven't tested the penalties so YMMV

[fair merlin]

Went and found the convo.
“This shit ain’t NUMA aware”

[sudden tusk]

Ideally would be getting different worlds across chips, right?

[fair merlin]

Could be fine or need some testing or tweaking but it wasn’t a priority.

[viral stone]

The issue is data locality in a sense

[fair merlin]

Yeah

Especially with the regions

Could certainly end up in a situation where wires are getting crossed. Then adding plugins into the mix . . .

[viral stone]

NUMA generally expects that each core has a slice of the ram, in order to take advantage of that, you'd need to effectively ensure that the same regions end up in threadpools for each of the different chips and stay there across executions

and then ofc, wider variable state gets into hell too

[split bay]

is it even possible to write numa-aware java code

I guess it kinda should be because you can call native code to figure out which core a thread is currently executing on but it sounds like an absolute pain

[blazing bough]

From https://medium.com/outbrain-engineering/finding-numa-b57f83c723d8
"Prior to JDK14, Parallel GC and ZGC were the only GCs to support NUMA-awareness. But with the release of JDK14 came JEP-345, which made Oracle G1 GC allocations NUMA-Aware."

[foggy blaze]

Okay

[viral stone]

That’s just the gc

Like, the cleaning/allocation being Nima aware means that the thing should priorities writing to memory on the local CPU rather than having to basically interact with the other cpu is how I remember it working

Buts the lack of real support for it inside of the Java sdk means that you have to dip into the natives to do stuff, not to mention all of the shared state inside of mc is not exactly how you design software to be able to take full advantage in those environments

[finite hinge]

NUMA is mostly a kernel scheduler and allocator thing, afaik

There isn't much you'd do at the application level regardless of language

Well, other than try to ensure your operations don't need to reach memory from other threads but that's a good idea in general

[viral stone]

Well, yea; but they basically means that you need to be smart about where you schedule regions

Not that the fact that the chunk system is this separate thing is totally going to help here

[finite hinge]

Per-region thread pools I suppose

Err, region in this case means memory region

I guess libnuma at least calls them nodes, not regions

Nodes have memory and CPUs in them, you can query this from the OS and then pin threads to nodes

I suppose threads complicate the kernel's job since all the memory is available to them so it doesn't have any clear info on which node it should run on

Although I believe it does try to keep it on the same node so long as there is room for it

[pseudo ibex]

#folia-dev message

[foggy blaze]

Why?

[pseudo ibex]

Because I want help figuring out a method for this, plus this is also the help channel. It could mean a public world loading plugin, almost like multi verse except with a lot less features.

A short term interim one until MV releases their own compatible version,

Unless it is really popular it may be kept

[prime juniper]

Ah multi-threading cool very cool I support

Where can I find the guide to compile it

Github I assume?

[livid crag]

Look at Paper repo's guide

but do Folia instead

[bitter jasper]

;-;

faced this two times ;-;

[shell violet]

Do you have intellij/an ide open to the same folder?

If you do, make sure you are running the commands in the intellij provided terminal

Or just close the ide

[bitter jasper]

yeah intelliJ is running and i am using its terminal

so should i just do it in terminal and not in the IDE's terminal?

well its now doing something

[bitter jasper]

it works now

[unreal egret]

is folia good enough for a survival server with friends? we have a survival server with lag issues even tho the server isnt fully utilized so i want to test if it fixes it

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[fair merlin]

If you already have lag then using Folia isn’t going to fix it probably.

[livid crag]

Pleases read the goal of the project and minimum hardware requirement

[fair merlin]

Read the FAQ in the line in here

[hexed ice]

if you're having lag I'd check the optimization guide first, though if you want your server to be as vanilla as possible it might be a bit hard

[unreal egret]

my server has many cores so i was hoping the issue was just one core being not good enough and the server lagging less with all the many cores used

[fair merlin]

Enough cores to support what the FAQ says?

But yeah I’d check the optimization guide first.

Figure out why there is “lag” and then determine what can be done about it.

[finite hinge]

Paper already uses a bunch of cores, it just only ticks worlds on one of them

Networking, chunk generation, chunk load/save, Java GC, etc all use more cores

[sudden tusk]

I suggest hopping over to #paper-help with a spark report of lag spikes only

[golden mica]

lag sad

should i use linux ?

[left dirge]

You're running on an eight core CPU.
Linux is my personal preference but doesn't change the fact that you're running folia on to few cores.

[golden mica]

cause i dont know the e core performance

[fair merlin]

E cores aren’t good for Folia. And you need more than 8 cores. And yes you absolutely should be running Linux for Minecraft.

[golden mica]

Clearly I don’t know what the difference between Linux and windows

[fair merlin]

For Minecraft Windows is low because the windows OS doesn’t handle small files as well.

[golden mica]

Could you please tell me the benefits when I run a Minecraft server in linux instead of windows

[fair merlin]

And Minecraft is many many small files.

[golden mica]

So you mean the IO performance?

[fair merlin]

Yes.

Generally Windows is going to run with more CPU and RAM overhead also.

But the FS is the big one.

[golden mica]

But what about winserver

[fair merlin]

Same.

[golden mica]

Got it

When I search linux I found Xanmod

[fair merlin]

Also you need more cores if you want to run Folia well. And not e-cores.

We (and I) have said many times that it’s targeted for higher core/higher end CPUs

[fair merlin]

I don’t know what that is. You just need a regular linux distro like Debian or Ubuntu or whatever and either a bash script to run Minecraft or a panel like pterodactyl.

[golden mica]

https://xanmod.org

[fair merlin]

I wouldn’t really mess with that

Generally if you aren’t sure why you’d need something you shouldn’t bother with it. Ubuntu it Debian out of the box is going to be fine.

[golden mica]

Got it

Maybe I should use 7950x

I don’t know maybe 64GB is enough for a 160 players server?

[fair merlin]

There’s no real math for that. It depends on the server, the players, they plugins, etc

But if you configure it properly you can run 160 people on Paper, depending on the server setup and game type.

[tacit tartan]

(assuming you've got sufficient hardware at least)

[fair merlin]

Right.

[golden mica]

DDR5 is so expensive

Same the 7950x and X670e

🥹

I will try it

Thanks

[bitter jasper]

Will Skyblock gamemode have any advantages when running on Folia?

[glossy locust]

kind of. it's easy to infinitely scale skyblock to many machines by custom sharding and custom plugins - but folia is another way to scale skyblock to the limits of one machine

[bitter jasper]

:D

[next scroll]

Hello everybody! Why is there no world border on Folia? How to fix it?

[knotty hemlock]

so i choose AM4 and not for AM5

[arctic warren]

what are the things that would work on paper, but not on folia?

[scenic sky]

everything that is broken in folia works in paper

😁

[arctic warren]

But what are the things i should change to make a paper plugin compatible with folia

[steep cloud]

Wanted to ask a question aubout folia bevore I plan to switch to it with the time. It does support multicore computing but does is support multisocket cpus. I'm running an universal quad socket server with 4 12 core xeons.

[scenic sky]

multi cpu systems dont do well with folia

[viral coral]

nor does old hardware because what you're running is probably ancient

[dusky basin]

Is folia more unstable as multi paper or not?

Do y'all think we would ever get multi folia?

:D

[inner swift]

Folia has known random crashes right now

[dusky basin]

Interesting

Interesting

[bold osprey]

you shouldn't compare that until a download button will be available

folia is new, multipaper is old, there are bugs in folia that will be resolved, there are bugs in multipaper that can't be resolved

[dusky basin]

fair

[fair merlin]

They also aren’t really doing the same thing.

So it’s not quite a 1:1 comparison.

[livid crag]

2b2t currently has a test server on Folia on their old map though. That’s cool. They got to 700 players

[bold osprey]

well, he asked about stability (like amount of crashes) and bugs, those can be compared

[bold osprey]

wasn't it only on 1 april?

[livid crag]

No a new one is up a few days ago and should still be up

Same old world as their 1.12 one so they are likely going to update in 1.20

We also figure out they use velocity and grimAC

[arctic tapir]

how?

[arctic warren]

can someone help me with this?

[viral stone]

Have you read the docs?

[arctic warren]

yes but i feel like i don't really understand it

[sudden tusk]

Please clarify which part of it you didn't understand and we can help better 🙂

[arctic warren]

Can I just get data from any chunk? because I don't really get if I can get data from unloaded chunks or not

[viral stone]

no

that's part of the entire new rules

you cannot access chunks which don't belong to the region you're not ticking in

[quartz garden]

i have a question, i wana test foila my self but i dont even know how tf i can get foila when i try to build it with gradle form their github it dosnt work and on yt or else where there is no download or smth for it, can you only get foila with like special connections or how does it work ?

[scenic sky]

you get folia by compiling it

[quartz garden]

but when i try it it fails

with what do i have to compile it

[scenic sky]

how does it fail?

[quartz garden]

so help me when.
what i did now, im trying it again.
1: git clone https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia.git
2: cd foila
what should i do after it

[quartz garden]

hello u still there ?

[scenic sky]

you compile it like you compile paper

[quartz garden]

but i dont compile paper i just download it form the website 🗿

still ...

never mind i think i got it

[livid crag]

Millions of people learn how to compile from source from trying to get folia

[pine tusk]

Learning by osmosis

[marsh maple]

(647d1df54d8e4e0733cf143d) // @mossy kiln (Admin Sonic#6375 / 853641254058590268) has been banned by @livid crag (177150983258767360)
Reason: spam bot

[blazing bough]

Is it true there is an alternate version of 2b2t actively running folia? If so can the address be shared?

[livid crag]

I mean it's literally on their subreddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/2b2t/comments/13xn5gx/119_test_server_open_with_full_original_world/

[blazing bough]

allright fair. That was lazy of me.

[livid crag]

pinned too

[subtle oriole]

<@&748618676189528155>

[marsh maple]

(647d41184d8e4e0733cf143e) // @empty wolf (𝓐𝓬𝓬𝓸𝓻𝓷𝓷𝓷#6081 / 895675292859895869) has been banned by @livid crag (177150983258767360)
Reason: spam bot. No free nudes

[livid crag]

man I just one 2 hours ago

[bleak python]

too much horni

[plain shuttle]

i got a BUILD SUCCESSFUL by building it with Git Bash but i get an error in the console by tring to Start Folia

java -Xms128M -Xmx24576M -jar folia-server-1.19.4-R0.1-SNAPSHOT-mojang-mapped.jar
Error: Unable to initialize main class org.bukkit.craftbukkit.Main
Caused by: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: joptsimple/OptionException

[arctic tapir]

wrong jar

[plain shuttle]

which then?

[arctic tapir]

what command did you use to build

[plain shuttle]

./gradlew applyPatches and ./gradlew createReobfBundlerJar from paper

[arctic tapir]

wrong jar then yes

use the one in /build/libs

root

dit

[plain shuttle]

only one kb

[arctic tapir]

root directory

[plain shuttle]

IdeaProjects\Folia\build\libs

https://img.NeverStopGaming.net/Panda/explorer_YVKTJF872f.png

[golden mica]

https://pastes.dev/QtrPElNYNM

my server always crash per day by this reason

[plain shuttle]

@arctic tapir

[steep elbow]

build it second time, some people having problem when first time building it and rebuilding fixes it

[strange nymph]

Are there any major crashes or exploits with Folia?

[jagged ether]

It's experimental software not to be used in production yet

[scenic sky]

it can crash on its own just out of nowhere

[charred galleon]

Hi! When I try to apply the patches, I have an error message. Any help please?

[viral stone]

Make sure that your ide isn't open in that folder

Otherwise, check antivirus software or whatever

[charred galleon]

Thx!

[plain shuttle]

i want to use the /timings command then there is the message that i should use Spark with the link https://spark.lucko.me/ bus whitch version to download? bukkit?

[finite hinge]

Spark has an open PR you have to pull and build for Folia, iirc

[plain shuttle]

Will Folia update to 1.20 soon? (when 1.20 is out)

[finite hinge]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

It might update immediately (not likely), it might take a day, it might take a month, it might stay on 1.19.4 forever

[tawdry gull]

__There Is No ETA__

Updates to Paper do not have any sort of estimate for when they release, ever. Any and all updates will arrive when they are ready, and the only thing to do is wait for them patiently along with everyone else.

ETA means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[finite hinge]

Step 1: Spigot has to release
Step 2: Paper has to release
Step 3: Leaf has to be available and not burned out from doing the Paper release

[plain shuttle]

Yes, I know, but the plan is that Folia will also support 1.20?

[finite hinge]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I don't see why it wouldn't but when I couldn't say

[bold osprey]

when 1.20 comes out, folia will downgrade to 1.18

to be different, to be special

[fair merlin]

The plan is to update to 1.20. When that'll happen or how soon we don't know.

[deep pond]

I can't find any information on how well folia works already. Is it already save to be used on a private smp with a couple of friends? It would be the-most-vanilla™️ server ever

[inner swift]

It has occasional random crashes

[sudden tusk]

If you're playing with a couple of friends, this would be probably the most wasteful way to run a server. Instead of needing a couple dollar a month shared server for friends, you'll need like 200+ dollars per month dedicated server just to run it well 😆

[deep pond]

lol I own a dedicated server already and we've got like 40 players at the same time

[daring nimbus]

Thats a number at which Paper probably makes more sense

[fair merlin]

You'd want to check the pins in here to see if it works for your uses or hardware requirements. Then check and see if the plugins you want to use support Folia assuming your system can handle it.

But yeah if you're playing with 40 people you're better off with just using Paper.

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[fair merlin]

It is.

Very first pin, in fact.

Which shows up last, of course.

[sudden tusk]

The first listed pin also says no ETA for public builds

So either order of reading covers you on the first read.

Okay well I'm sorry we can't accomodate your specific reading needs

But I hope you have a great day

[north pewter]

Just never make folia have a public build

anyone who really needs it will definitely be able to build it themselves

I do have a question though: I have a spare Ryzen 7700X (8c/16t) running, and I know folia benefits best from >16c and can sustain less without 16 cores minimum.

With a very approximate guess, how many players should that be able to hold?

[finite hinge]

There is no easy answer to that question even if you have 64 cores

If all of your players are grouped up you'll get 1 region per world and may as well just use Paper

If they're spread out enough to get multiple regions it might be worth running Folia even if each region runs slower than a Paper server would because you can isolate lag machines farms from other players

By spread out I mean like thousands of blocks from each other, btw

[grim wraith]

hey guys, I'm pretty new to this kind of stuff, but how should I build Folia?

I've got gradle and all that, but not sure about the directory and the proper command

building on windows

could someone explain it a bit to me 😦 ?

[finite hinge]

https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/tree/master#how-to-compiling-jar-from-source

[grim wraith]

awesome, thank you very much

[finite hinge]

Instead of "clone this repo" clone the Folia repo

[north pewter]

Okay, assuming it's just a regular survival server with a 10K x 10K border

Would it be worth running folia or just paper instead? Trying to push as many players as possible

[finite hinge]

If it's that large and people spread out enough you might get a few regions out of it

You'll be somewhat CPU starved so each region will run slower than it would on Paper but you'll be running more of them so it'll handle more players

The only way to know for sure is to try it out though

Which is a big undertaking at this point since you'll also have to write most of your own plugins and deal with any bugs in both Folia and those plugins

I don't have a good feel for how many players you can get on a server these days, the last time I ran a server with high player counts was 1.3

[north pewter]

I've nevr pushed past 100 players, did get 70~ once though

[finite hinge]

We were doing 200 back then, it would struggle for a while as 200 people were all exploring but once they settled in to bases it would at least stay above 10 tps

Some of the patches in CraftBukkit to use wall time instead of ticks were to hide the slowdowns you could see from running at 10 tps for standard survival tasks (cooking, breeding, etc)

[north pewter]

What if it's only 4k x 4k?

[finite hinge]

Only if people were on opposite borders and there was no one in between them would there even be a chance to get more than one region

Well, it's not really that bad, players have to be ~1500 blocks from each other to potentially be in different regions

But the smaller the area the more likely you are to have players fill in the gaps and cause all the regions to merge

[plain shuttle]

are there any recommendations for startup flags?

[jagged ether]

Same as Paper

[manic saffron]

I'm preordering one of these RISC-V boards with 64 cores, is there anything I need to know before running folia on it? https://www.crowdsupply.com/milkv/milk-v-pioneer

[fair merlin]

Yes, you should know that RISC is probably not going to run as well.

So probably don't order a motherboard just for an experimental piece of software especially if you aren't 100000% sure it's the exact correct thing to use.

Folia wants lots of high performance cores. It was not designed with RISC in mind.

[manic saffron]

I know, I already have Paper running on the VisionFive 2 with 4 cores

[pseudo ibex]

-16 MSPT https://spark.lucko.me/ZSuZ5KqdAT

I call that a win

💪

[fair merlin]

We don't generally like it when people advertise/post their server stuff here.

[pseudo ibex]

Ohhh I was wondering why I got pinged. I meant to send that to another dev in dms. That wasn't suppose to be public, sorry. If you anyone saw that don't join.

[verbal remnant]

RISCV is very much in its Development stages there is very little software and the expectation is to make your own solutions with it as a result.

So long as that is known

[finite hinge]

Hey, just because they asked in here doesn't mean they aren't a world class Java, GCC, OpenJDK, and kernel developer

Which you'd have to be if you're trying to run an experimental server written in Java on an experimental CPU platform

Well, I suppose you could replace GCC with LLVM/clang

And you probably don't need to be a GCC/LLVM developer at this point, might still need to be a kernel developer though unless that board is really popular

And OpenJDK is going to be slow, buggy, or both I'm sure so you'll need to know how to work on the most advanced JIT ever made

And then after all of that is settled you get to debug multithreading issues with Folia and write all your own plugins

Basically this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fnfeuoh4s8

[blazing bough]

Yes. But when he gets it working there will be so much amazing useful progress. Also - that video is the story of my life.

[steady juniper]

how to get folia?

[viral stone]

You need to compile it yourself

as per the instructions on the paper repo (Just, clone the folia repo instead)

[ocean geyser]

It's normal that compile take like 5~10min in i7 13700?

[inner swift]

Which OS?

[pallid plume]

as an aspiring plugin dev how do i compile for folia?

[fair merlin]

#folia-dev

And read the pins in there.

[pallid plume]

thank you!

[fair merlin]

\m/

[ocean geyser]

windows

[teal sleet]

Why it doesn't give an download link?

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[upper garden]

Are there any specific recommended flags for Folia, or just Aikars?

[finite hinge]

Yes, Windows sucks with small files and the patching process and decompile/recompile is working with thousands of small files

I'm surprised it was only 10 minutes for you

[bleak python]

excluding ~/.gradle and the project folder from Windows Security helps a ton btw, lol

[visual trail]

what causes a crash on Foila? Like if one of the threads get blocked, but the other ones are okay, what happens here?

[finite hinge]

iirc there is logic in there to detect that now and shut the server down

[visual trail]

so if one thread falls, they all fall?

[finite hinge]

Yep, because a thread doing that means something went wrong and the server is in an unknown state

It could be fine, it could start writing all your chunks at a 2048 byte offset so they read as garbage next time

[visual trail]

Is this only from a thread being blocked, or does it do this with TPS as well? I would imagine not with tps

[finite hinge]

It's only if a region "dies"

[visual trail]

Got it

[finite hinge]

I don't know if that includes a watchdog component or just errors

[knotty egret]

    mavenCentral()
    maven {
        url = uri("https://repo.papermc.io/repository/maven-public/")
        url = uri("https://jitpack.io")
    }
}

dependencies {

    implementation("com.github.IPVP-MC:canvas:master-SNAPSHOT")
    compileOnly("dev.folia:folia-api:1.19.4-R0.1-SNAPSHOT")



    // Use JUnit test framework.
    testImplementation("junit:junit:4.13.2")

    // This dependency is exported to consumers, that is to say found on their compile classpath.
    api("org.apache.commons:commons-math3:3.6.1")

    // This dependency is used internally, and not exposed to consumers on their own compile classpath.
    implementation("com.google.guava:guava:31.1-jre")
}```

what is wrong

[shell violet]

you are only actually adding jitpack, not the paper repo

[wise epoch]

You need to create a separate maven repo entry for jitpack, you're currently overriding paper's url with it ^

[knotty egret]

oh thanks ❤️

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[manic saffron]

Does Folia work with NUMA?

[fair merlin]

Maybe

Maybe not. You'd have to test.

We haven't personally tested much.

Good chance stuff will be funky.

[ocean geyser]

🤔

Gonna test it

I got dual E5

[ocean geyser]

It's work, but need more time for stability.

java -server -Xms64G -Xmx64G -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 -XX:+UseZGC -XX:+UseNUMA -Xlog:gc*:./logs/gc/gc.log -jar folia-bundler-1.19.4-R0.1-SNAPSHOT-reobf.jar nogui

[livid crag]

What do you mean by stability? Do you run into issues...? can you describe it?

[ocean geyser]

Everything work fine now

But I'm not sure what will happen over time

[livid crag]

The project will recieve continous support from Paper team and if you do find any issue, feel free to report on Github

[plain shuttle]

hey how does the utilization value come about after the / ?

[plain atlas]

Im interested, why region-based parallellism, and not full and proper concurrency?

[tranquil epoch]

"proper" concurrency?

[plain atlas]

Make everything thread-safe

[frank prism]

because the game wasnt written for concurrency and trying to shift stuff around to make it fully concurrent will break more than it helps
writing a completely new platform may not be worth the effort
this approach basically unlocks a good amount of capability while keeping enough stuff the same (the API apart from scheduling and a few other things)

[tranquil epoch]

this is similar to how linux top/htop measures cpu time, each thread adds "100%"

because making everything thread-safe isn't feasable to do

why don't you tell me in detail how to solve a very basic threading issue: two entities collide, one is a boat, on a chunk border

the hint to the question is that if you're threading that you don't know that they collide

[hardy ingot]

lets put both chunks on that border in a group and calculate them together and group other chunks into it if they touch with the currently grouped group

wait

the current way is probably the best without breaking too much

[plain atlas]

We have async chunks, partly async entities, and the last synchronous thing that left is huge plugin base, if folia already decided to broke plugins, it could just to change this

[frank prism]

you cant just do that tho

[tranquil epoch]

the question is the answer to why "just make it thread-safe"

[plain atlas]

Maybe don't use the one big world but split it to small data structures that can be simply read/write locked?

[tranquil epoch]

doesn't sound like there are many details there

[golden mica]

hey, leaf this crash happened almost every day

https://pastes.dev/KklZ7gW3j3

[tranquil epoch]

fixed on 1.20

[golden mica]

if possible, maybe you could write mob-spawn per region in detail in Readme.md

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[mystic wyvern]

why will folia not be backported to older versions? i prefer 1.18.2 and 1.16.5

[hexed ice]

because backporting to old versions that barely anyone plays on is a waste of time

you're welcome to backport it yourself

[mystic wyvern]

how do i backport it myself?

[golden mica]

https://pastes.dev/6oyl2sXTDO

1.20 crash

[arctic tapir]

gl

[exotic stirrup]

<@&748618676189528155>

[wise epoch]

why is it not doing anything

who sniped it

[hexed ice]

no ban for you noah

[plain shuttle]

I have 24 cores and 48 Threads and the utilization ist after the / at 600
Ist this a config setting? Or is It changeable? 48 Threads Times 100 equal 4800 right?

[hexed ice]

the utilization scales up with the amount of players online

in your screenshot you have no players online

[bold osprey]

you can change that in config but don't do that unless needed (like you saw in tps that you're at limit but your system isn't really used), because there are other things that will use cpu than the region themselves, giving too much power to regions may result in performance loss

[plain shuttle]

I have 48 threads and the regions only have 6 right now, does that mean that I somehow raise it a little bit to 10 16 or something like that or does it adapt so well that I can trust it even if many players join in a relative short period of time that there are no problems?
(I know it's a beta and it's still in a very early stage of development)

[bold osprey]

if you see that your usage is high only then you need to worry

don't forget that things like chunk loading, chat processing, chunk generation, chunk saving etc are processed in other threads, which also will use your cpu, and won't depend on that 600% cap

[finite hinge]

Even games that are designed from scratch for this don't just "make everything thread-safe", they have a complex pipeline of tick stages where some are massively parallel, some are at least somewhat parallel, and some aren't at all. Making everything thread-safe would make it run like 100-100,000x slower. Making it work like those other games I just described would require a rewrite of the server from scratch and a willingness to break vanilla behavior in somewhat large ways

If you're looking for something like that perhaps look in to one of the C++ or Rust minecraft servers

[plain shuttle]

how many chunks are in one region?

[finite hinge]

Hundreds Thousands

[plain shuttle]

ok let's say it's in a few chunks then all chunks are affected, so to speak, there are thousands in the region, right? are the chunks then reduced so that there is a separate region for the chunks that lag? or how can I understand it better 🙂

[livid crag]

You can understand it better by reading the code itself. That’s probably the most direct way

[plain shuttle]

Ou shit🤣

[finite hinge]

No, if a region slows down it doesn't shrink

Regions are the size they are for a reason, if that region has something go wrong those reasons don't go away

[plain atlas]

It makes sense

What about ability to make plugins compatible both with folia and spigot?

[bold osprey]

you can make a library that can help you do that

[plain atlas]

I dont think its a good idea to rewrite the full world/entity api to do only one my plugin

[viral stone]

I mean, there’s certain concepts that you need to take into mind

Outside of the scheduler, so long as you don’t cross region boundaries or deal with things like teleporting, little changes

[finite hinge]

Your plugin will be less efficient and more limited on Spigot and Paper because it'll be scheduling tasks for no reason but you can do it

Here is an example of how https://github.com/TechnicallyCoded/FoliaLib

[prime juniper]

Does folia run on top of paper?

So I put it in my plugins folder?

[finite hinge]

No, it's a fork of paper

You replace your paper jar with the folia jar

[deep pond]

^ and it'll break pretty much all plugins in the plugins folder

[prime juniper]

I don't get it. I've never used paper before, and I just setup one now by basically just running the paper jar

When running the folia jar, i got no main manifest attribute, in folia-1.19.4-R0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar

I just executed java -jar folia-1.19.4-R0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar

[daring nimbus]

that seems like you didn't build it correctly

[finite hinge]

Or you're running the wrong one

[prime juniper]

I just did git clone https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia
and then gradlew build

Is there a guide?

[viral stone]

Yes, follow the instructions on the paper read me, just with the folia repo

[prime juniper]

Yep

It worked

thanks

Where can I configure folia?

Are command blocks disabled in folia? I'm trying to spawn a chicken and it isn't doing anything

[bleak python]

many are, see https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq#what-commands-does-folia-disable

[prime juniper]

summon isn't in this list? why doesn't it work?

[bleak python]

no clue lol

[blazing bough]

Command blocks are disabled.

[bleak python]

ah yeah ^

[prime juniper]

completely?

[bleak python]

yes

[prime juniper]

bruh

I wanted to spawn 4000 chickens and go somewhere else to see if the server would be ok

[blazing bough]

Just curious ... If you've never run Paper, what brings you to Folia? What are you trying to achieve?

[prime juniper]

I also have 16 cores, but it says utilization: 3.8% /400%

[daring nimbus]

I mean if you go away, the chickens won't be ticked

[prime juniper]

I run a medium sized vanilla minecraft server where all the players are spread out and I have 16 cores

I don't have anything to lose moving from fabric to folia

[prime juniper]

Yeah but i have a friend

That'll stay there

to load them

[blazing bough]

Ok. best of luck. Report any problems ...

[daring nimbus]

Not really a useful test in any way though. If those chickens are all in the same ticking region, it will perform the same as on Paper, or slightly worse

[prime juniper]

Yeah but only that region will slow down to a halt

Is folia ever going to move to 1.20?

I just moved to 1.20

And I want to try it on my main server

I guess that will be a better test

[daring nimbus]

Its already being updated, dev/1.20 branch

[prime juniper]

oh ok cool!

Is it less stable than 1.19.4?

Also what logs could be provided? Just the general log of the server?

[prime juniper]

I still don't know how to

[fair merlin]

Configure it for what?

It has the same configs as Paper

For the most part

[bleak python]

I mean, base Paper 1.20 is experimental so yes, less stable than 1.19.4, both Paper and Folia (not that folia is considered stable to begin with)

[prime juniper]

Is it not available for the general public to clone?