folia-help

[karmic urchin]

If anyone is interested in a version of SternalBoard (packet based scoreboard) working on Folia let me know

it seems to be running fine with the PAPI compatibility

edit: sources and a working jar can be found here: https://github.com/jdkeke142/SternalBoard-Folia

[wind crater]

where we can use folia?

[tough crane]

you have to build folia yourself for now

@wind crater

[wind crater]

i have to make the entire thing myself? wtf

how

[tough crane]

you clone the project from github and compile it

thats what I mean by building, compiling

[wind crater]

can i have link of github's project's download

[tough crane]

its in the channel description

[wind crater]

how do we compile it tho :/

[fair merlin]

It's one of those "if you don't know how to compile it you probably shouldn't be messing with it yet" kind of things.

[wind crater]

uh ok ig i gotta tell someone else

i want to test it (:

[fair merlin]

Read the pins in here - you need the hardware to be able to test it properly.

But if you can build it, rock on - go for it.

[wind crater]

i do have a server, it has 59 dedicated ram and 16 cores

will it be enough?

[fair merlin]

You'll want to read the pins and the FAQ in the pins

[tough crane]

59 dedicated ram?

why is that such a specific number

[wind crater]

where?

[wind crater]

idk

my dev does these shit

[fair merlin]

The "pins" in this channel.

There's an icon up top.

Click it, pins will drop down. Read those messages. There's an FAQ in there.

[wind crater]

this? https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia#readme

[fair merlin]

That's not in the pins in here, no.

[wind crater]

:/

[fair merlin]

Pinned messages.

It's a Discord feature.

[wind crater]

ohhhhhh

u kept saying pins

[fair merlin]

Yeah.

"Pins" are "pinned messages", pretty common for Discord.

[wind crater]

im not that civilized 💀

tf 2tb ram

[fair merlin]

This is why it's worth reading the pins and FAQ and guides.

It's designed for very specific hardware and uses.

[tranquil epoch]

it's important to remember we had only one option when looking at servers in NA

and that was it

[tough crane]

holy, that is quite a server

[bleak oar]

btw is there anyone running folia on his apple m1 ultra chip lol

[sturdy shoal]

how tf we supposed to know

[bleak oar]

i'm just asking if anyone did it maybe some apple m1 ultra users tried

[sturdy shoal]

probably?

why

yeah i'm asking why xefreh is asking

does vault work on folia

would be really funny

[half vault]

why does the tag linked to this release not have the commit adding the actual folia support

[distant nova]

Is command block works in Folia?

[keen fable]

Why is the same patch applied on Folia and Paper independently ? 🤔

https://github.com/PaperMC/Paper/commit/4f9575eed827007f31ce17da471820fe8bc14573
https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/commit/47105ea28e71d337c2683c7b7ae8228e61901cbb

[prisma thicket]

Hello, I was wondering what the licence was for the Folia logo, does anyone know? I can't find anything.
I want to use the logo in a CC-A presentation but I don't know if I can use the logo in it :/

[distant nova]

Is command block works in Folia?

[near crater]

Don't think so

[finite hinge]

Probably never

Command blocks rely on commands being able to return a status but commands all have to fire off tasks that run later because the things they're touching might be in different regions so won't have any status to return that tick

And they can't just block the region thread waiting for the response because some of the tasks might be for that region and some other region might have a command block doing the same thing waiting for a task on this region

So you get a deadlock

[distant nova]

Okay
I just need to code a whole plugin just to perform command 🙂

[chilly ether]

Hey! Currently I have an i7-8700 and using paper, wondering if I should change it to folia and 2 Intel Xeon Gold 6234 (32) x2, (because it’s an server cpu so idk if it will just degrade performance

[viral stone]

depends on the use-case

[chilly ether]

just for am smp, learned that server cpus not so goodnpreformance

[viral stone]

it's a lot more complex than that

unless you have enough players to justify the hardware, and actually have players spread out enough, folia is not worth it

smp is in the groundmark where if you actually have enough players it can make sense, but, only you can really test it for your specific needs

[chilly ether]

80-90 players only

[daring nimbus]

thats doable on Paper with good hardware

also consider most plugins won't work on Folia

[chilly ether]

guess i need some good optimizing

[viral stone]

We can't tell you if you have the correct player spread or anything for that to actually be beneficial, especially when taking such a huge hit on single thread performance

[chilly ether]

after 70 players tps drops

[viral stone]

actually, that gold ain't too old, so, maybe not that bad of a perf drop, idk

[chilly ether]

guess i9 is the fix 😄

[daring nimbus]

yeah that 8th gen CPU isn't the best anymore tbh

[viral stone]

It's all nuanced cos nobody here is gonna piss in the wind towards random environments, hardware wise and setup wise

[chilly ether]

might try paper on it then

[viral stone]

I mean, the i7 is better on single thread perf

[chilly ether]

then im staying away lmao guessing better optimizing will help

[tawdry gull]

Community contributed configuration guide for Paper: https://paper-chan.moe/paper-optimization

[livid crag]

Sounds about right. That’s my old machine and that’s about the limit

Read the guide and go lower on stuffz I guess

[chilly ether]

that's a long guide.

Well doing this on my phone that’s impossible I’ll do this tmr then

[livid crag]

The guide aims to explains stuffs so it’s a big long but you will get better understanding than majority of server owners

[keen fable]

No. If you ruin the vanilla experience, including sim distance & mob spawning, maybe..

[livid crag]

I’d say 60-80 ish is max max regardless of paper or fork of paper

Yeah

For “vanilla” config

[keen fable]

And beg for you players to not copy huge farms 🥲

[livid crag]

Depend on how you run your server

I used to just sell most heavy farmable items at spawn

Remove the need to make farm = no one will make those farm

Remove villagers and do custom wandering traders and sell the rest at spawn

[loud schooner]

Once again having trouble building🤔
https://paste.willfp.com/raxevazufu.csharp

[viral stone]

well, what did you run?

Guessing that you tried to run applyPatches and build in the same thing, you can't do

[loud schooner]

./gradlew applypatches createMojmapPaperclipJar --stacktrace

[viral stone]

yea, you can't do that, as I said

[loud schooner]

Does it need to be separated?

[viral stone]

yes

[loud schooner]

ok

[pearl mason]

What electrogenic features have been removed from Folia?

[scenic sky]

electrogenic?

[pearl mason]

Redstone circuits

Survival Redstone Electricty

[daring nimbus]

Command blocks don't work, the other redstone stuff should work

[finite hinge]

There are some differences with 0 tick things but I don't remember if that was breaking them outright or limiting how many could run

Goal was to avoid having an instant wire-like thing try to escape the region

[tranquil epoch]

redstone cannot load chunks is what changed

broadly, physics can't load chunks and it cannot pass through non-owned regions

so machines completely in your VD should be ok but anything else is not exactly guaranteed

[tranquil epoch]

forceloaded areas should be OK though

[lethal notch]

Is there any catalog of tutorials to help write the plug ins needed for folia?

On yt or sum

[rare hare]

Considering Folia is pretty young, there probably aren't any YouTube videos for it.

If you're already familiar with the Bukkit API, you should take a look at the readme for the overview of API changes.

If you're not familiar with the Bukkit API, should probably learn that first and then apply that knowledge combined with the readme to Folia.

[shell violet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIYK5Fd9NTw

[polar slate]

hi, I have a compiling question, I'm trying to compile folia from GitHub repo, after I typed "gradlew applypatches" command it occur an exception: "Execution failed for task 'patchCraftBukkit'.", did I do something wrong😅? Very appreciate you guys help!

[wicked mantle]

Send the logs above that

As it’ll have the actual error

[polar slate]

The logs like this:

M:\Trangle Minecraft Projects\Folia Server Code\1.19.4\Folia>gradlew applypatches

> Task :paper:patchCraftBukkit FAILED
> Task :getPaperUpstreamData FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

* What went wrong:
Execution failed for task ':paper:patchCraftBukkit'.
> io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false clone --no-hardlinks 'M:\Trangle Minecraft Projects\Folia Server Code\1.19.4\Folia\.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper\work\CraftBukkit' 'M:\Trangle Minecraft Projects\Folia Server Code\1.19.4\Folia\.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper\.gradle\caches\paperweight\taskCache\patchCraftBukkit.repo'

* Try:
> Run with --stacktrace option to get the stack trace.
> Run with --info or --debug option to get more log output.
> Run with --scan to get full insights.

* Get more help at https://help.gradle.org

BUILD FAILED in 15s
2 actionable tasks: 2 executed

Very appreciate your help

[finite hinge]

Windows so obvious guesses would be your path is too long (try putting it in M:\Folia) or your antivirus is interfering with things, try to make it ignore the Folia directory.

[polar slate]

Thank you for your help! I'll try it later!

[polar slate]

I very much appreciate your help. After moving the Folia folder path to M:\Folia, the problem was solved. I am indebted to you for your help.

[chilly ether]

when i run the file

where thoes the jar go?

[scenic sky]

what?

[chilly ether]

when i run jar.bat

it builds the jar right?

or did i misunderstood?

[scenic sky]

it does not

[chilly ether]

oh..

so how do i use it then?

[jagged ether]

If you have no idea how to run a jar Folia is not for you,
what's your exact question

[chilly ether]

i do but i see no jar lmao

[jagged ether]

Then ask the right question

[chilly ether]

my bad

[hexed ice]

the jar goes into the build/libs folder since that's the default output folder for gradle

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[chilly ether]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1020339055348682892/1103418204518371498/image.png

call me stupid or not but i just downloaded it from github

[hexed ice]

don't download it, clone it

and apply patches first

[frigid cliff]

git clone https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia

[chilly ether]

yea i did

getting same error

[frigid cliff]

Try again

[chilly ether]

i deleted the folder, ran git clone, ran patch and then jar and same issue

[daring nimbus]

make sure the file path isn't too long, that can be an issue on Windows

[chilly ether]

C:\User\Sputnik\folia?

[daring nimbus]

seems short enough

[chilly ether]

then what?

[worthy seal]

if i only have 4 cores, is there any way i can share any of my other threads with the chunk thread so i have more than just 1 core dedicated to chunk ticking?

[daring nimbus]

4 cores won't be enough to run Folia well, just stick with Paper tbh.
You can allocate more threads than you have cores, but that will degrade performance even further

[true lion]

Is there a plugin to simulate high player counts/stress test?

[fair merlin]

Nope.

[grave idol]

Can I connect 2 Folia servers via BungeeCord?

Would that work?

[viral stone]

well, yea

Just, it'll be exactly the same as linking 2 seperate paper servers

[grave idol]

uhh, thats nice 🙂

[paper siren]

(you can also link a paper and a folia server)

[fair merlin]

I dunno why you'd want to run two of them though

[grave idol]

it will probably be a few paper servers and 1 folia server for smp

but it's just a thought that ran through my mind.

Would folia run properly on a xeon e5-2697a v4 (16 cores, 32 threads @3.6Ghz Turbo) and 128GiB Ram?

[fair merlin]

If you have nothing else on that server it'll probably run. But you'd have to test to see.

There are no good benchmarks yet for what servers will work.

[knotty hemlock]

uhm

https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TrN33srzR4/

is this folia's bug?

[viral coral]

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/issues/45

[knotty hemlock]

The problem I had didn't seem to be that serious, and when the player re-entered the server after the server crashed, the server didn't crash again

But it looks like we're having similar problems

[finite hinge]

That's 16 cores from 7 years ago, 8 cores on a modern AMD cpu probably beats it

[wooden wraith]

Before getting bashed, I know projects like these take considerable amount of time, and that it is hard to get an ETA out. But, I'd do like to know what the current state roughly is of Folia, as I need to take it into consideration for an Event server I am coding/planning.

[grave idol]

SingleCore performance is still nearly as capable as a 3rd gen ryzen

Compared Ryzen 7 3700x vs Xeon E5-2697A v4

Left is Ryzen, right is xeon

This is Dual-Socket Xeon E5-2697A v4 vs Ryzen 7 3700X

left the xeons, right the ryzon

somehow the single-core performance increased at dual socket

but thats probably due to lack of samples

I still have the xeons already and run my server on them .-.

they currently run paper servers with aikars flags and run fine

[finite hinge]

3700X is a bad comparison, that's 2 generations old too 😛

[tawny dew]

More than double the single thread performance and it looks like much more efficient multicore utilization

[prime juniper]

7950x can easily overclock to over 5.0 GHZ as well

i plan on incorporating this cpu into my home server

[livid crag]

Yeah overclocking my Minecraft server and sustain it 100% uptime

[prime juniper]

yeah and then i'm going to stick it into a hot brick room and hope for the best

[tawny dew]

Me looking nervously at my SSF 7900X server

[trail kernel]

You can install 2+ cpu cores of xeon on one motherboard

And ryzen, no

[fair belfry]

i wonder why, maybe theyre just not made for that purpose.....

[left patrol]

Does folia make servers less demanding on ram?

[viral coral]

no

and besides if you use folia, you're at the point that you don't care about how much ram it uses

[left patrol]

Why

[viral coral]

because folia is intended for large servers

to hold as many players as possible on one server, one world

if i have 300 players, i wouldn't care about folia using like 32GB of RAM

the more players you have online and spread around the world, obviously the more ram it will use just like on paper

[left patrol]

Thanks

[paper stone]

Michael, could you share your flags and your tuning for shenandoah (generational ?) cause the auto tuning for shen isn't that great (they even said it and shown it during presentations) ?

[viral coral]

pretty sure leaf only changed the gc threads

not like gc performance was high on the list of things to look at with 512gb heap

lmfao

[vague kite]

https://github.com/BlockhostOfficial/folia-plugins

[wooden wraith]

I seem to be unable to build Folia

Execution failed for task ':paper:patchCraftBukkit'.
> io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false clone --no-hardlinks C:\Users\jtmni\Documents\Azortis\Minecraft\Folia\Folia\.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper\work\CraftBukkit C:\Users\jtmni\Documents\Azortis\Minecraft\Folia\Folia\.gradle\caches\paperweight\upstreams\paper\.gradle\caches\paperweight\taskCache\patchCraftBukkit.repo```

[wicked mantle]

Shorten the path you're building it in. Windows gets angry when they're too long.

Something like C:\Folia or if you have another drive use that

[vestal swallow]

Hi, Where can I get folia jar?

[hybrid shore]

You need to build it yourself

[vestal swallow]

Uhh what?

Folia is a jar right? I found out it supports multithreading

[hybrid shore]

If you don't know what that means then you don't need folia

[vestal swallow]

I do tho, I need a jar which can support multi threading so that It can let 400+ players run on 20 tps.

[hybrid shore]

It's in "beta" state, developers can test things and port their plugins

Are you a developer?

[vestal swallow]

Kinda, yes.

[hybrid shore]

And you don't know how to build a jar?

[vestal swallow]

No.

[hybrid shore]

[vestal swallow]

Can you just send me the beta version so i can try it.

[hybrid shore]

No

[vestal swallow]

Why?

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[fair merlin]

It'll let 400 players run on 20tps if you have super super expensive hardware.

See the pins in this channel.

It's still in development, so you have to build it yourself. No jars are available for downlod.

[vestal swallow]

An I7-8700K

[fair merlin]

Yeah that's not gonna work at all.

Like I said, read the pins in this channel

Read the readme on the repo, etc etc

An 8700K isn't even the best CPU for running Paper, let alone remotely meeting the hardware requirements for Folia.

[feral marsh]

what is lower supported version of mc that folia supports?

[viral stone]

1.19.4

[feral marsh]

so it's not possible to do 1.19 server

?

[daring nimbus]

no

[feral marsh]

ok

[daring nimbus]

1.19 is slower, has bugs and exploits anyways

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[quartz lily]

compiling still ending with this error.... * What went wrong:
Execution failed for task 'applyServerPatches'.
java/lang/ProcessHandle

im i missing something?

or im just dumb 😄

[hexed ice]

you need at least java 11

[quartz lily]

oh... ok

thank you

yes that was the problem

thank you

[unreal prairie]

Hi, I wanted to know if this Folia can work with mods like forge and cloth, sorry but I am new and ignorant on the subject.

[sly elm]

no it only works with folia plugins

[steady gate]

#paper-help message <- In reply to the above:

I would assume this is only a matter of time though, right?

[fair merlin]

For it to be a replacement for everyone?

No, that's not the goal of the project.

https://papermc.io/software/folia

The Is Folia for me?

section

Folia won't be useful for the majority of servers out there and will break most public plugins. It's ideal for servers with very high players counts, that offer gamemodes that naturally spread players out, such as SkyBlock or SMP.

(Click saver)

Paper will continue to expand features and add performance stuff. But Folia and Paper are kinda targeted at different goals.

[steady gate]

I guess I lack some technical know-how to really grasp the downsides fully. In my head having... let's say 4 areas with 10 people each potentially building redstone machines and the likes be rendered by 4 independent threads always yields an advantage to having the 4 areas and 40 people on a single thread

[fair merlin]

The problem is that Folia needs a lot of threads/cores to run.

Like I said, you should check out the FAQ/pins/etc in this channel

It explains a bunch of it.

You need a lot of cores.

Without a lot of cores it'll just choke and not run.

[steady gate]

Is it really about cores or threads mostly?

[fair merlin]

Yes.

And RAM.

[steady gate]

So cores, not threads?

[bold osprey]

cores, not really threads

[fair merlin]

Well CPU threads, not like Java threads.

And not virtual threads.

Take a minute and read the FAQs and stuff in here.

[steady gate]

I'm just asking because this is confused a lot

[fair merlin]

#folia-help message

That's the FAQ

Start there.

[bold osprey]

check github page

[livid crag]

It would help if after reading the FAQ, ask the question in regard to the FAQ.

[steady gate]

Time I read up a bit then 🤓

[bold osprey]

so if you have less than 16 cores, you need to think a lot if you really need folia and not paper

it may be better for you than paper even on less amount, there are specific cases, but choosing that should be after you understand everything and not thinking that folia will just boost performance like pufferfish does over paper

[fair merlin]

Pufferfish has tradeoffs.

Everything is a compromise. Even Paper is making some tradeoffs over Vanilla.

Sure it's faster but it's also different.

[bold osprey]

don't think that they are that big as ones from folia

[fair merlin]

Folia just won't run if your hardware can't support it.

Or it'll run and then bog down and crash.

[steady gate]

I kinda think people will find ways to merge it eventually, maybe with dynamic allocation

[fair merlin]

Merge what?

[steady gate]

Paper's and Folia's use cases

[fair merlin]

Probably not realistic.

The very nature of Folia means it can't run like Paper does.

If it were a catch all then Leaf would have merged it into Paper.

Like Starlight, or the chunk system rewrite/etc.

[karmic urchin]

Having several regions that can tick at the same time means that most plugins need a fair amount of adaptation to run safely avoiding race condition, I doubt that Folia is aimed at the general public because I think that most plugins will not adapt to this way of working for Folia

[fair merlin]

Some plugins would need to be completely rewritten to even work properly, yeah.

[bold osprey]

something like folia was in plans for over 5 years, i don't think that if nobody was able make it in paper for that long, it will be in less than 10 years that someone will merge that

most likely the api will be similar so people will easily add support for both paper and folia, and the switch between these 2 would be very easy in future

even 10 years is extremely unlikely, most probably nobody will care to merge at that time, but geniuses may appear out of nowhere

[fair merlin]

Maybe the hardware will get cheaper and more accessible.

If everyone could afford big EPYC servers then anyone could use it and run stuff. Those boxes will get cheaper over time.

[bold osprey]

now to think of it, what if mojang suddenly implemented this in vanilla, what will spigot and paper do? 🤣

[steady gate]

The future of Minecraft servers lies in multi-threading for sure

[fair merlin]

Could be.

Guess we'll see.

[steady gate]

Modded Minecraft would sure profit the most from it

[fair merlin]

People in Minecraft kinda jump on "async" and "multi-threading" as the answer for everything.

Which isn't always the case.

There's a lot left on the table in terms of plugin optimizations, too.

[steady gate]

The time delays to reunite multi-threaded and async tasks might end up costing more performance than it is worth

Given all the waiting times for a tasks completion

I guess nothing's perfect

[fair merlin]

Yeah and running a server is actually pretty complicated. To do it well requires a lot of tweaking and knowledge. And tradeoffs.

We see a lot of people who download a bunch of popular plugins, drop them onto Paper with a default Paper config and no plugin tweaks, get a host with so-so hardware, and then come to paper-help asking why everything is slow.

And players don't care - they just wanna play!

Right now all across the planet people are spending hours/days/weeks/months making things run smoothly for players.

We're in a weird community, running stuff. :)

[steady gate]

It took me an easy 5 years to learn how to really squeeze the most out of the hardware I have available, so I really do feel that

The wishes and hopes for a magical solution to all the problems won't ever die though

😂

Well... this was informative, so thanks everyone ✌️

[fair merlin]

\m/

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[finite hinge]

I think the main thing missing here is that Folia is slower on a per-region basis due to all the overhead of making it safe to be multithreaded and having thread checks in the API and etc. If you only have 1 or 2 regions you're almost always going to be better off with Paper. If you have a setup that can have 8 regions but only have 4 CPU cores the extra overhead of Folia combined with the task switching to process all of them is still going to make it slower for most people than just using Paper. This might still be worth doing though because even if each region runs slower at least one region can't completely tank the rest of the server. It's definitely situational though so the only for sure win for Folia is when you have a lot of regions and a lot of CPU cores to run them.

Thus the recommended system specs

You might be able to get by with less and your server might run better like that than with Paper but there is no easy answer to that other than testing your setup and seeing how it goes

[wooden wraith]

Just wondering, I know Folia is meant for more spread out servers with high playercounts

but what for an instance where i.e. a /tpall at spawn

or a server opening

where suddenly 300 players enter a spawn region

[finite hinge]

Then you get a single region with 300 players in it and that region is slower than Paper due to the overhead I just mentioned

Not a lot slower, mind you, but if that's happening a lot you might be better off with Paper

[wooden wraith]

Well its only in small cases

i.e. server opening

[finite hinge]

btw when we say spread out we really mean it, if any players are within ~1500 blocks of each other they're in the same region

[wooden wraith]

or a forced tpall

[finite hinge]

So if player A is 1400 blocks from player B is 1400 blocks from player C they're all in one large region

[wooden wraith]

Jesus

Thats allot of chunks OOF

[finite hinge]

Those chunks aren't all loaded, of course

But they're in the same region

[wooden wraith]

Ahh mhh

So a very big map is a requisite

[finite hinge]

Yep

Hopefully some day that distance can be reduced but it's sort of fundamental to the design so I suspect not (or not any time soon)

[daring nimbus]

Whats the main reason its so big?

[wooden wraith]

to avoid conflicts I guess

[finite hinge]

This is just my attempt to summarize what Leaf tried to explain to me so it might be a little off:

Leaf described it as view-distance 10 means chunks in a radius of 11 around a player will be brought to full loaded which is ticket level 33. The system will create chunk holders up to ticket level 45 (apparently in a flood fill manner) so it touches an extra 13 radius out from there for a total of a 24 chunk radius. Current region section size is 16x16 chunks so that fits in 2 sections. Then the regionizer creates an empty section around non-empty for buffer so you get 3 sections, 48 chunks, or 768 blocks

So the two main issues are the chunk ticket thing (apparently a vanilla thing?) and the 16x16 section size (a Folia thing)

[daring nimbus]

didn't know that chunk tickets flood even outside the view distance

[finite hinge]

If section sizes could be 8x8 or something that would reduce the distance and if we didn't have to do the chunk ticket thing changing the view-distance would actually change the distance (in multiples of the section size)

Right now you'd have to do a really tiny view distance to try to shave off a section to get any reduction in the distance and iirc that ends up being so small it causes other things to break

Like a view-distance of 2

[daring nimbus]

hmm. I do have players spread out, but not that much, thats a bit of a bummer

Seems like ticket levels above 34 are only used for world generation though

So if there is no world to generate, I could theoretically cut it off at 34. Which would break vanilla world gen, but I don't need that, so if I just do that in a fork of Folia

[wooden wraith]

Just wondering

Is the overhead from checking thread contexts that big, or does it not really matter

[finite hinge]

In block game nothing is that big, the problem is how many times you have to do it

Everything is death by a thousand cuts

That only really matters for API though, afaik the server doesn't do much or any of that for its own logic

The overhead there is just due to the locking and such to make the regionizer work

[prime juniper]

how many players I can get on 1 core without lagging?

[sudden tusk]

You want to run Folia, the software meant to run on 16+ cores, on 1 core?

[inner swift]

Well, none

[prime juniper]

On 8 cores running fine

So tests on github saying 300 players were done on 16 cores without lagging ?

Or 300 is just when it crashes?

[livid crag]

You can launch Folia with 1 core and it will still launch, it doesnt mean it is running fine or in most optimal condition.

This applies to your situation as well.

THE FAQ lays out the condition, and how it comes to the conclusion of 16 physcial cores. You should take a moment and read and understand it.

[prime juniper]

I read the github page but didnt really understand the part where it can hold up to 300 players.

The core count

[inner swift]

The tests were made on the hardware in pins (64 cores/128 threads), and there were ~330 online without major issues

[prime juniper]

The answer I wanted to see thx

[prime juniper]

And btw how many ram was there ?

[inner swift]

It's in the pins

[prime juniper]

I am little confused, sorry, what does pins mean ?

[inner swift]

Here

[prime juniper]

Ohhh that

[random garnet]

How many players can I handle on Intel Xeon E-2236 3.40GHz 10 gb ram

Folia

[livid crag]

Please read the FAQ and readme

[random garnet]

Ok

[tawdry gull]

Folia

Folia is a fork of Paper that adds multi-threaded region support. Many plugins will require updating to support Folia. There is no ETA for publicly available builds.

For more information:

• Readme
• FAQ
• Regionising logic
• Detailed overview
• Javadocs

Folia will:

• NOT be backported to older versions <1.19.4
• NOT be merged into Paper
• NOT be ported to Fabric nor Forge

Stay tuned to #announcements for any further info about releases.

'ETA' means 'Estimated Time of Arrival'!

[prime juniper]

30-50

Keep in mind that this doesnt boost performance.

[prime juniper]

From what I read and heard

[fair merlin]

This may not be true. Probably best not to give player count estimates for untested CPUs. Especially ones with low core counts

[fair merlin]

With those specs you’re almost certainly going to see better results with Paper.

[prime juniper]

Its a rough estimation

[fair merlin]

It’s likely not accurate. With only 6 cores there’s a good chance the server will just die.

Not enough cores to support Folia.

[prime juniper]

Not really I am running 8 cores.

[inner swift]

How many players?

[prime juniper]

Well, 2.

Building the server.

[scenic sky]

right

folia wont bring any benefit on 8 cores most likely

most likely will perform worse than paper

[inner swift]

Well, yeah, not too surprising it's running with 2 players
It does run, just likely would be worse than Paper

[prime juniper]

I mean it crashed on 50k tnt

[fair merlin]

And as you start adding players it will most likely run out of resources and die

[scenic sky]

thats pretty bad

[prime juniper]

Yes, I was shocked.

[fair merlin]

A server with 8 cores is going to perform better with Paper than Folia.

That’s why we say in the FAQ and in here often that Folia is not for every use case.

[prime juniper]

It is an amazing project, wanted to try it out.

Thats why I went with it.

[scenic sky]

yes it is amazing

[prime juniper]

But probably I will switch to pufferfish.

[scarlet pawn]

How do I build folia? I tried following paper build instructions but when I do ./gradlew applyPatches
I get an error ```> Task :getPaperUpstreamData FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

• What went wrong:
  Execution failed for task ':paper:patchSpigotApi'.

io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Failed to apply patches

[arctic tapir]

did you clone

[scarlet pawn]

yes

[arctic tapir]

show the whole message

log

[scarlet pawn]

> Task :paper:patchSpigotApi FAILED
Committer identity unknown

*** Please tell me who you are.

Run

  git config --global user.email "[e-mail]"
  git config --global user.name "Your Name"

to set your account's default identity.
Omit --global to set the identity only in this repository.

fatal: unable to auto-detect email address (got 'igiag@SD-R1.(none)')
***   Please review above details and finish the apply then
***   save the changes with `./gradlew rebuildPatches`

> Task :getPaperUpstreamData FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

* What went wrong:
Execution failed for task ':paper:patchSpigotApi'.
> io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Failed to apply patches

* Try:
> Run with --stacktrace option to get the stack trace.
> Run with --info or --debug option to get more log output.
> Run with --scan to get full insights.

* Get more help at https://help.gradle.org

BUILD FAILED in 6s
2 actionable tasks: 2 executed
igiag@SD-R1:~/Desktop/folia-mester/Folia$ 

[fair merlin]

Your error is right there at the top

Fix that.

[scarlet pawn]

I did as i was instructed. I got another error. ```igiag@SD-R1:~/Desktop/folia-mester/Folia$ ./gradlew rebuildPatches

Task :rebuildApiPatches FAILED
Formatting patches for Folia-API...
fatal: ambiguous argument 'base': unknown revision or path not in the working tree.
Use '--' to separate paths from revisions, like this:
'git <command> [<revision>...] -- [<file>...]'

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

• What went wrong:
  Execution failed for task ':rebuildApiPatches'.

io.papermc.paperweight.PaperweightException: Command finished with 128 exit code: git -c commit.gpgsign=false -c core.safecrlf=false format-patch --zero-commit --full-index --no-signature --no-stat -N -o /home/igiag/Desktop/folia-mester/Folia/patches/api base

• Try:

Run with --stacktrace option to get the stack trace.
Run with --info or --debug option to get more log output.
Run with --scan to get full insights.

• Get more help at https://help.gradle.org

BUILD FAILED in 1s
1 actionable task: 1 executed
igiag@SD-R1:~/Desktop/folia-mester/Folia$

I am sorry if I am missing somthing obvious again...

[inner swift]

Did you applyPatches?

[scarlet pawn]

In the last error it told me to rebuildPatches. Running applyPatches now shows ```igiag@SD-R1:~/Desktop/folia-mester/Folia$ ./gradlew applyPatches

Task :getPaperUpstreamData FAILED

FAILURE: Build failed with an exception.

• What went wrong:
  Gradle could not start your build.

Could not create service of type ChecksumService using BuildSessionScopeServices.createChecksumService().
Cannot lock checksums cache (/home/igiag/Desktop/folia-mester/Folia/.gradle/caches/paperweight/upstreams/paper/.gradle/8.0.2/checksums) as it has already been locked by this process.

• Try:

Run with --stacktrace option to get the stack trace.
Run with --info or --debug option to get more log output.
Run with --scan to get full insights.

• Get more help at https://help.gradle.org

BUILD FAILED in 4s
2 actionable tasks: 2 executed
igiag@SD-R1:~/Desktop/folia-mester/Folia$

[sudden tusk]

Make sure everything is closed, kill that data, try again

[hexed ice]

try ./gradlew --stop or try manually deleting the .gradle folder

[scarlet pawn]

Alright! I did get through applyPatches. However when running ./gradlew createReobfBundlerJar I'am getting like 52 compile errors. What did I do wrong?

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @scarlet pawn: https://pastes.dev/ISKIEJv74G

[daring nimbus]

did you applyPatches?

thats failing to find classes added by the patches, so looks like you didn't run applyPatches

[scarlet pawn]

yes I did run applyPatches. It took like 12 min

ran it again. Ig it must be cached because it did it in like 12 seconds now. I will send log below

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @scarlet pawn: https://pastes.dev/W7ViQl5PGL

[hexed ice]

Applying patches to Folia-API...
No patches found
is where your issue is, since during the bundler jar creation it was missing those API classes

[scarlet pawn]

How can I fix this?

[hexed ice]

make sure the api patches are actually present in ./patches/api

[scarlet pawn]

the directory is empty

[hexed ice]

try making a fresh clone of the repo or a git reset --hard HEAD since it shouldn't be empty

[scarlet pawn]

tysm! it's working now.

(:

[pulsar mauve]

late response but checking current thread is very fast in java

it is as fast as like 3 field reads with openjdk linux x86_64 abi

the jvm stores an internal jvm structure containing the current java thread object in a register

it is pretty much return %r15->javaThread

so the branch for checking the thread is probably the slowest part other then the memory reads

[tranquil epoch]

yup that's why I use it to store region local data

[wooden wraith]

@tranquil epoch About that, hope this doesn’t bother you. I am currently writing a World Gen plugin, and am quite intrigued to be able to take full advantage of the Chunk System, i.e. storing chunk info context between stages(Custom ChunkSnapshot), but currently I find it hard to find a nice entry in the Levelgen package on NMS, could you point me into the right direction for this?

I am very interested in your changes

and want to have a better understanding in general on the chunk system

as I’ll be needing it when I write a full MCA headless pre generator cli

[hybrid shore]

Folia "by default" has region per world right?

[finite hinge]

Yeah, you at minimum have 1 per world

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[hexed ice]

you don't

[subtle adder]

is it just not possible with the way it works internally, just not implemented or just not recommended?

[finite hinge]

Not possible

To lower the region size you would have to set the view-distance to 2 chunks which is not playable (and causes errors in other places because it's not a valid option, iirc the minimum is 3)

[livid crag]

A lot of fun stuff can happen if you allow enduser to set the region size… coz you know how it is gonna end up

[prime juniper]

Folia + bedrock

is that possible?

[livid crag]

Paper and Folia only supports JAVA clients. Whether it is possible or not, it's up to plugin developers that provide that feature.

[prime juniper]

So porting geyser to folia is a diy affair ?

Also i will be running a follia test on a XeonPHI 7210 pretty soon
with about 96 gigs or something of ram.

It's a 64 core 256 thread processor. This is a really extreme scenario

I've been gathering players Via use of innovative marketing .

[livid crag]

Might want to see in Geyser discord, I dont personally follow the project so I cannot know how they do.

lol hahahah where you putting those flyers

[prime juniper]

yes, i'm going to be spreading these flyers

me and my colleagues at least

[grave star]

If I have folia installed, and I want to change it to paper, is there probably a serious problem?

[livid crag]

No, there will be no issue.

[uncut pelican]

why

[livid crag]

Did you read it

[uncut pelican]

yeah

[subtle adder]

The thing is then there are downloads to “non-developers” or “not smart enough to read guides online” people then they will flood these channels with help requests (and elsewhere) because they don’t understand the state folia is in currently. Seriously building paper / folia is not hard

[inner swift]

Well, the complaining issue is quite manageable rn

[silent python]

any big servers having this in production?

[frank prism]

its p likely 2b2t used a version of this on their april fools server
but its extremely experimental and some api and features just dont exist yet or wont ever (datapack functions)
so running it in prod would be a pretty bad idea

[silent python]

yea i know, but there are alway people who put it right into prod

[finite hinge]

I don't think anyone has had time to rewrite all their plugins

You can't even use WorldGuard and can only kind of use WorldEdit if you hack it up and are careful

[sudden tusk]

I started. But concurrency is HARD. Gonna be a bit before I get the draft data tracking done let alone start messing with writing all the event handling that involves concurrently accessed and modified data.

But at least this lets me make an API that can handle multi server at the same time. 😁

[prime juniper]

Btw I'm gonna be using folia for prod

[blazing bough]

6:30PM .... in what time zone?

[prime juniper]

Scan the qr code lmao

Rules -ip will translate it to your own

[naive fable]

Sorry, but that cpu is really bad

[prime juniper]

How is it bad lmao

[naive fable]

https://web.ipac.caltech.edu/staff/fmasci/home/miscscience/MIC_benchmarking_2013.pdf

[prime juniper]

Isn't folia multithreaded?

I tested it on normal paper / puffer fish 17 players on one server was possible.

[naive fable]

you would get 20x better performance from latest amd cpu, per core

[prime juniper]

Don't care.

This is a test for a reason btw.

I want to see how multithreaded folia is.

I have zen 3 CPUs for other projects.

[scenic sky]

it doesnt matter when a single core isnt capable of doing minecraft

unfortunately

[prime juniper]

Legit probably fucking wrong lmao

Here's some footage of our server. Which ran on one.

[naive fable]

use the zen 3 cpus, their definitely better

[scenic sky]

probably fucking legit not wrong in actual use

[prime juniper]

https://youtube.com/shorts/AHeg6whVhOY?feature=share

Older server I stopped running cause power costs lmao

• heat and school

[scenic sky]

a raspberry pi can also handle some players

[prime juniper]

There was 17 on doing there own thing in separate parts of the map

Tps hovered around 18.

Render distance 5

Mob caps default.

This is probably the textbook best case to benefit from folia

[scenic sky]

sure folia would probably help in that case

[prime juniper]

Then why did you quickly say "it won't even be able to run at all"

[scenic sky]

where?

[prime juniper]

....

[prime juniper]

....

[naive fable]

it is really bad

[scenic sky]

what i mean by that is that the single cores can barely handle minecraft

18tps at 17 players with 5 chunks render distance is horrible

[prime juniper]

Yes. But that's not multithreaded at all.

I wanted to see how much of a bottleneck is in follia

When it comes to multithreading.

That's all

That's why I choose this ODDLY SPECIFIC SPECIALIZED HARDWARE FOR IT.

[scenic sky]

are you sure you''ll reach that limit though

[prime juniper]

Wdym?

[scenic sky]

folia scales really well

to the point of 600 players on a single server

[prime juniper]

In that case

Let's try to break a record lmao

[scenic sky]

id love to see that

[prime juniper]

256 threads should be enough

[naive fable]

the cpu has the same performance as 5 intel 13 gen cores

[prime juniper]

K then

[blissful basin]

You want to break folia record?

[prime juniper]

Y e z

[hybrid shore]

But you know players MUST be spread out? At least ~ 1500 blocks from each other.

[prime juniper]

Hmm

Okay

[fair merlin]

I don’t think you’re going to break any records with that CPU

But try and see I guess.

[tranquil epoch]

i'm too sick to go over the details but iirc there is no API to store custom data, basically need to add your data directly to protochunk/imposterprotochunk/levelchunk which would require modifying the server

there are a lot of details about the chunk system but the most important ones is the logic in the static initialiser for ChunkTaskScheduler, the write radius dependence scheduler RadiusAwarePrioritisedExecutor, the schedule method in the same class, and the callback in NewChunkHolder onChunkGenComplete that is invoked after a ChunkStatus is completed

[chilly heron]

Question: If Folia is experimental why do some hosting companies already give out Folia and rename it? Looks wrong to me

[arctic tapir]

||because they're dumb||

[chilly heron]

Now we have the issue on github on some huge projects 😅

I saw a complete live server running with folia with bisechosting. That should not be given out of the public and also not commercial like...wth?

[arctic tapir]

likely bc people see “multi threading” “async” or whatever and assume it’s better for their 2 player server

= more people = profit

[chilly heron]

This is definately bs and not good for folia

[chilly heron]

I wrote to them and one supporter meant it's mabe their stats plugin. But on the other side, why does someone start a public minecraft server with Folia and some "working" plugins when it's experimental?

[vague kite]

People don't understand what "experimental" means, they check if it starts and if it does, they use it.

[prime juniper]

ArEnT yOu ThAt GuY fRoM tAb???!1?!

[foggy blaze]

I think I specifically remember seeing either Leaf of one of the other main contributors yelling at one of the hosting company staff in this server for offering it

[blissful basin]

Of course he is, the most known Czech minecraft developer

[vague kite]

Assuming you mean me, I'm not Czech

[blissful basin]

Well Slovakian than

[wooden echo]

https://tenor.com/view/walkman-tab-retro-80s-gif-12030867

[prime juniper]

how would i go about making teams in follia

[hexed ice]

https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Commands/team

[wicked mantle]

Team command is disabled

[prime juniper]

how to enable?

[daring nimbus]

You don't

Teams rely on a global state, and that doesn't exist with Folia

[wicked mantle]

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/faq#what-commands-does-folia-disable

[prime juniper]

R i P

No world borders either?

ripppp

[daring nimbus]

You can always use a plugin that provides the same functionality

[prime juniper]

hhmmmm

wouldn't i have to make one?

[daring nimbus]

Probably

Not sure if ChunkyBorder supports Folia yet, I know that Chunky does so it might

[fair cloud]

where i can download folia

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[pseudo ibex]

I don’t think this is the case

[pseudo ibex]

I think the server you are referring to was my server, they didn’t give it to me, I compiled folia, and I got the BisectHosting.jar ( which shows the stats in the pannel ) to run in folia as well. It’s all experimental. The image you saw was this,

[pseudo ibex]

You have to compile it yourself

[fair merlin]

@pseudo ibex Please refrain from commenting on Github PRs with things like “looks good” etc. Ends up just being comment spam when it’s not a full PR review. Project maintainers have to sign off on them anyway.

[pseudo ibex]

😅

Ok

[fair merlin]

If you review the PR and spot issues with it feel free to point those out, though.

[pseudo ibex]

Ha ok will do 🥂

[celest forum]

what hosting company?

what hosting company is renaming it*

[tranquil epoch]

if they're renaming it, it's probably an attempt to sell it as their own product

[pseudo ibex]

They aren’t, I believe @chilly heron was making assumptions and misinforming people. No hosting company would do that.

[timid grotto]

you sure?

[fair merlin]

I'm sure some random hosting companies would do it. And I'm sure some companies are or will make it available despite it being terrible on the hardware that's available. But the answer to "why would someone do this" is: we have no idea.

[bold osprey]

i think someone may even remove limit to only folia supported, thread check and unsupported operation exception and call it their new supper product, and it won't matter to them that most probably people's servers will crash

tbh, for a summer host that will disappear after 3 months, they may do that, because they don't care about reputation

i wish that this won't happen, but if it will, we may need to ask spark for a special folia check to be included in reports, that most host won't bother to fight against

[pseudo ibex]

Hmm what other ideas may someone have ? 😂

[bold osprey]

crazy ones, like randomly skipping ticks to appear like they have more tps 🤣

[pseudo ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-noted-notes-gif-26231953

https://tenor.com/view/sas-evil-gif-26310062

[fair merlin]

Gifs and memes should go in #gifs-and-memes

[pseudo ibex]

Ok 🙂

[vast dust]

All of those players would be in the same region, so you would not benefit from regionised multithreading in this regard

You benefit from those players spread across different regions

[cinder salmon]

Can anyone send me a compiled version of Folia? I want to experiment with it

[tawdry gull]

⚠️ Please do not share any links to builds of Folia at this time. We are intentionally not providing easy to find/obtain downloads right now - when the time is right, everything will be available through official PaperMC distributions.

[daring nimbus]

I don't think you can change that without modifying folia itself?

[wicked mantle]

iirc if you set the view distance to 1 it'll change the region size but it also breaks shit

so it's not possible to

[wise epoch]

Pretty sure it doesn't even let you go that low

minimum is 2 afaik

[jovial helm]

Wasn’t the minimum 3?

[fair merlin]

Either way you can’t change the size of the regions. It’s not designed to work like that.

[jovial helm]

#folia-help message
It is 3

[fair merlin]

If you have people in one small space it makes more sense to use Paper.

Yeah does look like the minimum is 3

Which would still suck

[jovial helm]

More things break than just general playability at that low of a view distance afaik

You just don’t want to go that route even if you could

[fair merlin]

Yeah exactly

[steep whale]

currently having a weird bug with Treasure maps, they are causing the server to drop its tps to 1

[inner swift]

Yeah, it's a vanilla issue

[steep whale]

okie noted

[inner swift]

People usually disable them (ideal solution) or maybe toggle return already discovered

[viral coral]

on the brightside

it only affects the region for folia

so other regions would be fine

[clear bluff]

Hello! I just got to know Fiola a little and I have a few questions, I would be glad if someone could explain to me:

1. What will happen if two players from different tick regions go towards each other and meet, what will happen to the threads of the regions?
2. How many independent ticking regions can there be? 10? 100? 1000?
3. Does this mean that now instead of putting 10 servers on one dedicated server, you can get by with one fiola and it will use the dedicated server 100%?
4. Is it possible to configure the fiola so that there are several worlds on the server, and so that all of them are processed asynchronously, but each world processes all its chunks synchronously?

[inner swift]

From what I understand, the thing is just that NUMA causes a performance concern, though it'll run

[tranquil epoch]

I don't know the NUMA perf but it's probably not great

feel free to try it out yourself

[ivory dust]

after 30 minutes of work

[ancient sun]

You ported it?

Is there any big servers using folia yet? I wanted to port my server of 250 players, just wanted to hear owners experience before doing so

[ancient sun]

TAB guy!

[foggy blaze]

2b2t did for April fools and got super solid numbers. You just gotta make sure you’re plugins support it and that you have a CPU/server that will be able to handle it.
I’d say that you should also understand how the system works. Because right now it’s very very early stages and nobody wants to deal with uneducated server owners complaining about problems they can’t comprehend because they decided to try running it in prod

[ancient sun]

I wanted to run it on hetzners ex101

24 cores or sum

i9 something

[ancient sun]

Did they publish a profiler or something?

[livid crag]

We verified it was Folia (or frok of Folia) by having people in the server reproducing known bugs that exist only in Folia and not paper.

[ancient sun]

Oh dope

House through the server together in like 3 days?

[livid crag]

ofcoz the owner of 2b will never come out and tell you it is Folia but the timing of the test / behavior of the server / confirmed bugs are all pointers toward it is Folia indeed.

[ancient sun]

does f3 not show folia?

Like how it does with most other servers

[livid crag]

2b does not show original server branding

[ancient sun]

oh rip

Is TAB ported yet? Seen the dev typing here

[livid crag]

Folia without plugin is actaully pretty stable if Vanilla is all you wanted so the test can happen without issue that's for sure

at their peak they go over 600+ players.

[ancient sun]

I’m trying to convey a server with around 20 plugins

It’s basically sky lock

skyblock

[daring nimbus]

The plugins will be an issue

Every plugin needs to be updated for Folia

And depending on the complexity of the plugin that can be quite a lot of work

[ancient sun]

Most are very small

Except SuperiorSkyblock2

and fawe and worldguard but i can replace those

[daring nimbus]

Skyblock is great for Folia though, as players can be very spread out and Folia really performs the best if that's the case

[ancient sun]

Yeah it is that type of server

That’s why i’m interested

Would SuperiorSkyblock2 be hard to port you think

or could it work out of box

[livid crag]

I am not very familiar with Skyblock plugins, are there any popular one with Folia support planned..?

[ancient sun]

[daring nimbus]

FAWE is working on Folia support, not sure how far along that is. And Worldguard might as well, not sure.
And that skyblock plugin is at least open source, so if the dev isn't interested you could get someone else to do it.

Shouldn't be too bad, most of its work should be done locally anyways

[ancient sun]

I personally code myself

So I could do it

Prob

I hope

[daring nimbus]

But there's at least 50 classes with BukkitRunnable that would need to be changed (because simply doesn't exist on Folia), just did a quick search so might be more

[ancient sun]

ye that’s fine

they use packets a lot

for like workd time

word borders

[ancient sun]

is it similar to bukkit runnables

need to read up

[livid crag]

I am sure if you submit a ready-made PR most project would welcome it too.

[ancient sun]

i’ve just never ported anything before lmao

my only concern

[daring nimbus]

Generally you need to keep in mind that there no longer is one tick thread. Which makes plugins that interact with entities or blocks that are far away from each other a bit complicated.
But with a Skyblock plugin most code is probably only doing something on one Island, and that will be in the same region on the same thread.
Would recommend reading the Folia documentation, it explains a bit what you have to keep in mind when developing for Folia

[ancient sun]

they also use NMS, is that different in folia

[daring nimbus]

https://docs.papermc.io/folia/reference/overview

Some NMS methods might have changed, not sure

[ancient sun]

surely not

[tranquil epoch]

new dev branch boys https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/pull/74

[livid crag]

[daring nimbus]

Do I understand it correctly that the adjusted region shift means that there is less space required between players for them to be in different regions?

[ancient sun]

leaf do you plan to work for big corps in your future like faang

seem pretty intelligent

[livid crag]

That's where you get it wrong kiddo, big corp works for leaf

[ancient sun]

oh my bad

got words mixed about 😅😅

should I build off that branch tomorrow?

[livid crag]

Man leaf dropping them patch like candies. A casual 5k diff one just now

[ancient sun]

5k

tf

i thought my 800 was impressive

brothers commit comment is longer than all of mine combined

[daring nimbus]

Have a look at the paper-chunk-system patch

[ancient sun]

No

XD

[daring nimbus]

It's like 19k lines

[ancient sun]

imma sleep instead

[ancient sun]

i hope they get lots of donations

lmao

[tranquil epoch]

this is correct

[daring nimbus]

That is very neat

Thanks

[tranquil epoch]

sorry, more space is required

the shift is higher now

[daring nimbus]

So players need to be even further apart than currently? 👀

Thats the opposite of what I hoped

[tranquil epoch]

may not be as bad as you think

shouldn't really be more than ~48 chunks or so at most

[daring nimbus]

That seems doable. I thought it was more somehow

[tranquil epoch]

it was from 4 to 6, so from 16 chunks to 64 now

should remember at VD = 10, the chunk system creates chunk holders in a ~50x50 box around the player

[daring nimbus]

Is that box so large just because of world gen? Like iirc the higher ticket levels are just worldgen

[tranquil epoch]

yeah it's specifically for worldgen

[daring nimbus]

Could I hypothetically reduce that if I don't need any worldgen? 👀

Or would that completely break something else

[tranquil epoch]

the chunk system has sort of been designed to maybe allow that but also there are things you would need to change with ticket level propagation to do that

[daring nimbus]

I mean 48 chunks is probably fine. But we have a Worldpainter world so we really don't need all of those chunks at any point, so I was thinking about that

[tranquil epoch]

it's really tough to do it even with the changes I have

[daring nimbus]

Hmm. Probably not worth the effort then I guess

[ivory dust]

Don't do it yet, you will get almost 0 support from most developers as of now.

[ancient sun]

im the dev tho

[ivory dust]

It will take a lot of time to port all ur plugins tho

[wide ginkgo]

Is there plugins such as Essentials,Citizens and Multiverse that are compatible with Folia?

Not sure if those plugins work, if not I’m asking if there’s alternative plugins that work similarly for it.

[viral coral]

multiverse can't work on folia yet

essentials has a folia branch

[ivory dust]

You should add a setting like "max-chunks-per-region" where if a region hits the cap, a new chunk would create a new region and/or if 2 regions try to merge but exceed the limit, they will stay seperate

[ivory dust]

I compiled it

[wide ginkgo]

@viral coral You didn’t mention Citizens, do you have knowledge on the matter?

[viral coral]

no idea

citizens is far from 100% packet based

[livid crag]

We cannot comment on other develop/project’s schedule and planning. It’s best if you seek out within their support channels and ask nicely I guess.

Multiverse dev is waiting on proper world-api iirc. They wouldn’t update until Folia has a stable one at that.

[ancient sun]

Not many

Only 20ish

[daring nimbus]

I wish it was

[primal sluice]

Besides the amount of cores and RAM, are there any other specs someone who aims to run Folia should look for?

[tranquil epoch]

this would violate the rules that keep regions spatially independent, so nope

[scenic sky]

fast storage is pretty useful

[ivory dust]

Ima stay up late tonight and try to investigate into some of the broken api

[daring nimbus]

keep in mind that some of that can't really be fixed because of the lack of a global state/thread

[ivory dust]

Could possibly find some alternatives

[ancient sun]

is there folia docs for some examples?

And how to actually convert a bukkit to folia

[sudden tusk]

What does "convert a bukkit to folia" mean

[foggy blaze]

plugin?

[next bloom]

probably a #folia-dev question then

if you are wondering what are the technical changes that require lots of plugins to make changes to support it

[ancient sun]

Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: Could not load plugin 'MineBuddiesGens v1.0-SNAPSHOT' as it is not marked as supporting Folia!

how to mark it

change it

[wicked mantle]

add folia-supported: true to your plugin.yml

But it won't just magically make bukkit plugins work on folia without actually changing the code to support it

[ancient sun]

ye ik

you recon vault would work

on folia

[sudden tusk]

Vault, sure. Any plugins implementing vault? That's where your troubles come in 😆

[ancient sun]

nvm

RegisteredServiceProvider<Economy> rsp = getServer().getServicesManager().getRegistration(Economy.class);

its that

[ancient sun]

Got it running

[sudden tusk]

Reminder that this is the -help channel not the -dev channel 😆

[ancient sun]

my computer lagging so bad the rgb on my keyboard freezes up

[sudden tusk]

That is not something we can assist you with here in #folia-help

[ancient sun]

i was just saying it cuz of folia building on my pc

I hope you understand and let me off this one time

[knotty hemlock]

i make a plan to remake some Bukkit/Spigot/Paper plugins that have been abandoned for maintenance, If you are interested, you can take a look at 😉

https://github.com/xiaoyueyoqwq/IFC-PRP

[ivory dust]

Idea: player respawn event may be not firing because it's firing on a different thread. What if you could loop through all the threads and call it on each of them?

[viral stone]

Wat

[unkempt aurora]

Is there any way I can help with development of folia?

[ancient sun]

I NEED TO PORT MY SERVER IRGHT NOW

10TPS

[scenic sky]

ok go port your server right now then

[bold osprey]

👍

[ancient sun]

BRO I CANT FIX THIS ISUSE WITH A PLUGIN

im going isnae

oh its u!

😄

[bold osprey]

he won't be able to help unless you tell what's the problem

[ancient sun]

SuperiorSkyblock2.. When compiling NMS doesnt shade properly half the time

going insane

[bold osprey]

did you use gradlew shadowJar?

[ancient sun]

It say's on their github to use gradlew build

First time I used it it shaded correctly

but I try again and it doesnt

[bold osprey]

try gradlew shadowJar

[ancient sun]

1s

https://github.com/malafk/SuperiorSkyblock2-Folia

@bold osprey My current code btw

[viral stone]

NMS doesn't shade properly

eeerrrr

[ancient sun]

nonono

[viral stone]

you don't shade NMS

[ancient sun]

not like that

No

we have this and it normally shades but it isnt for me

[bold osprey]

never seen something like that

so like build should be after shadowJar, but at the same time, shadowJar should be after build

[ancient sun]

Normally shades into NMS

[ancient sun]

yeah idk i didnt make that

shadowJar didn't make a difference

[sudden tusk]

"shades into nms" is a nonsensical statement.

[viral stone]

build depends on clean

[ancient sun]

Pal

[ancient sun]

do i need to clean each build?

[viral stone]

that entire screenshot of the build setup just looks borked

no

[ancient sun]

I aint the best at gradle

its very brain hurting

[viral stone]

if stuff works as intended, you should generally never need to use clean

[ancient sun]

u think the dev is trippin

[bold osprey]

i think they used some dark magic there, so you're not the problem

[ancient sun]

I was gonna remove generating worlds

and use my existing one

oh look

it shaded 3 versions this time

its like a random chance 💀

[bold osprey]

seems like dark magic powers comes to you

[ancient sun]

trying to build it again

i wonder if any will shade this time

[inner swift]

Folia doesn't support 25% of the API
Well, vast majority of the API is working. The small amount of stuff that is missing is important, but most things do work

[ancient sun]

Its mainly the world generation which happens once

[ancient sun]

shaded none..

is it cause this is messed up or nah

half the gradle build file is erorrs

should i just run multipaper

at this point

[inner swift]

Well, run whatever is most viable for you, if you can deal with MultiPaper's bugs and dupes, go ahead
Just keep in mind MultiPaper is not supported here

[ancient sun]

I just need help 😦

xD

Idk how to fix up the compiling issue

If I could then i'd be fine

[sudden tusk]

Well, if you're running a server large enough to be needing one of these platforms you have the huge pile of cash necessary to pay a developer to do the work for you.

[inner swift]

This is going to be the least of your dev concerns porting stuff

[ancient sun]

Where do I find those

[ancient sun]

How..

[viral coral]

how do you have 300 players and you don't know where to find developers

lol

[ancient sun]

Is this fast?

[viral coral]

no

[ancient sun]

i am the dev

but when it comes to folia

and compiling shitty plugins

i am a bit bad

[sudden tusk]

I don't think it's appropriate to call someone else's plugin, that you're trying to rip to bits to desperately make work with folia, shitty.

[ancient sun]

my bad

[neon dew]

hallo

how to gradlew project?

[arctic tapir]

look at papers readme

[solar ledge]

I mean real devs are are unpayable for Minecraft servers

Our customers have to pay 3 digits per hour per fte so ye xd

[arctic tapir]

for most*

[solar ledge]

Guess plugin devs are underpayed :p

[ancient sun]

try 4k for 5 hours

[verbal rose]

Hey guys, I'm keen to play around with Folia.. I know it says recommended 16 cores, but my server is running a i7-12700K with 8 performance and 4 efficient cores (12 in total) - 20 threads. Do you guys think that would still be better performance than running Paper?

I only expect around 20-30 players on concurrently, but want to allow my players to make massive scicraft type redstone farms, etc.

We currently experience lag at around 20 players online, but I have a lot of settings relatively high - we aren't opposed to running with only 1 or 2 plugins (e.g. just CoreProtect) so not worried about plugin compatibility

Also, I've spent ages trying to compile Folia... is there any chance someone would be able to send me the .jar? No stress if not :)

[fair merlin]

If you just want to run and test it to get plugins working, that CPU is fine. For production, no.

And unfortunately not, you'll have to build it yourself.

[verbal rose]

ahh alright, no stress - exciting to see if/when this will be ready for production-use

[fair merlin]

Sorry, to be clear what I meant is that your CPU is underpowered to use Folia for actual playing.

You're better off using Paper

[verbal rose]

Ohhh right, alright. What CPU would you recommend I upgrade to?

[fair merlin]

It's really designed for high end hardware. We don't have a recommendation but anything suited is likely to be very expensive.

Check out the FAQ in the pins in this channel.

[golden mica]

Could it be that the vanilla survival of 100 people is not suitable?

13700k with tps 13. so laaaagggg

I did a lot of optimization

[daring nimbus]

that CPU is below the minimum recommended specs for Folia

8 cores is not enough. the efficiency cores are useless for Minecraft

[golden mica]

13700k also 16 core

8P 8E

[daring nimbus]

yeah forget the 8E

[golden mica]

also 16C lol

but you re right, i turn off the e core now for single thread server jar like paper or purpur

[daring nimbus]

the E cores of that CPU are about as fast as the cores in a 5th gen Intel CPU

which is just not great

[golden mica]

nop the e core may like 10TH

or 9Th

i remember i saw the test video in youtube

[fair merlin]

If you’re turning them off for Paper then you’d have them off for Folia.

That’s not a bad CPU in general but it’s not a CPU suited for Folia.

[fair merlin]

Also generally please don’t ping people from unrelated conversations

[golden mica]

sry for that, my bad

😦

so i will change the cpu from 13700k to 7950x

[fair merlin]

Jury is still out on whether a 7950X will work well. But one way to find out 🤷🏻‍♂️

[golden mica]

but it cost a lot, so i decide test folia when i turn on the e core and see what it perform, then decide weather change it or not. 🙂

[fair merlin]

Yeah basically any hardware that’ll run Folia is going to be expensive.

It’s not designed for lower end systems or small servers.

[golden mica]

yeah, i got it 100 Player with no limit

i will change it to linux soon ~

[golden mica]

i remember the 5950x work well, i saw someone test foila on it and get a better performence

[solar ledge]

Stupid question but are the players near each other?

Because if they are all grouped well we all know what the result would be then

[golden mica]

Players form small groups and disperse among themselves

[daring nimbus]

Folias /tps command should show pretty clearly if too few regions is the issue

But I highly suspect its the hardware

[fierce knot]

message.txt by @blissful basin: https://pastes.dev/Adxf54TbjN

[blissful basin]

Wrong channel

[weary wren]

is folia good for production server's yet?

[hexed ice]

no

[fair merlin]

It’s still in development but depends on what you want to do with it. Plugin support is still small.

[keen fable]

hey! why is there an eraseMemory here ?

+                    // Folia start - region threading
+                    if (globalPos.dimension() != world.dimension() || !io.papermc.paper.util.TickThread.isTickThreadFor(world, globalPos.pos())) {
+                        entity.getBrain().eraseMemory(MemoryModuleType.JOB_SITE);
+                        return true;
+                    }
+                    // Folia end - region threading

https://github.com/PaperMC/Folia/blob/master/patches/server/0005-Threaded-Regions.patch#LL19234C17-L19234C17

idk if this should be in #folia-help or #folia-dev 😅

[tranquil epoch]

it's the logic that's used when a villager loses the competition for the job site

[obtuse raptor]

Sportedleaf you’re fr a god

You made multi threaded ticking

I saw some patches and haven’t understand a word

[wispy moat]

Soooo, I'm probably being dumb, but can someone actually properly explain why command blocks don't work pls?

[jagged ether]

Because it can affect stuff that is on a separate region

[tranquil epoch]

disabled early in dev due to the fact that commands may not complete synchronously anymore

for simple cases could probably enable them but for your command based redstone map? idk bout that

[wispy moat]

Ah I get ya. That makes sense!

ty

[pulsar mauve]

e core could be supported better on folia as they are still pretty fast but controlling thread affinity from java is pretty hard

folia kinda treats all cores as equal as far as I know but e cores and p cores are not equal

they are better off doing stuff like netty threads and other background server threads but you may fall into a bottleneck there

seems very tricky to tune this stuff

if we had more e cores it would be easier probably

[fair merlin]

I suspect Leaf doesn’t want to deal with e core distinctions since any CPU with e cores is less likely to be ideal for Folia right now anyway.

[pulsar mauve]

yeah it’s some real pain

I think ecores would be more viable to tune for if we had twice as many of them

they are definitely not that slow. just not optimal for tick thread

[inner swift]

Wonder if the new performance patch improved the situation for weaker cores

[fair merlin]

Chatted briefly about it

Core guidance is still the same for now.

Whether that changes in the future is unknown.

[pulsar mauve]

yeah that’s probably good advice anyways

[fair merlin]

But it’s still not designed for weaker cores/CPUs

[pulsar mauve]

it requires way too much tuning for lower core counts to be recommended to anyone

Anything under 8 is not possible I don’t think

I think paper can use that many cores with all the background tasks

[inner swift]

(Referring to weaker individual cores rather than lower core count, by the way)

[fair merlin]

It will startup it just likely will croak

[fair merlin]

Yeah, same answer

Was a general convo about a few different CPUs people asked about.

[golden mica]

no matter what happen, it worth to try

[finite hinge]

Putting netty threads on e cores is a job for the kernel, assuming it makes sense to put them there

I think macOS has some hint you can give but ideally you wouldn't even need that

[solar ledge]

Ye you should not have to worry about that. Maybe you can find a way to debug what process is running on what core and see if it actually is a problem.

Presumably all the heavy load will be prioritized on the p core

[red lintel]

how's folia's development so far?

[shell violet]

Everyone always asks when folia

Nobody ever ask how's folia

[finite hinge]

[verbal remnant]

How about who's Folia?

[weary pivot]

Hey guys!

I'm just found out about folia from the paper website today

I would like to try it, is there any way I could compile the source code on windows.

using the provided batch files it fails.

[daring nimbus]

WSL would be the best way. But it should compile on pure windows too. Did you run applyPatches? Whats the error that it fails with?

[weary pivot]

Let me run again

so I can show you

so I run it with cmd and I have jdk 17 in my path

so it uses that, idk if it requires diff version of java.

it fails with this error.

[daring nimbus]

the error tells you what you need to do

[weary pivot]

I thought it wasn't necessary

I don't use github

so i don't have an account

[daring nimbus]

its not about github, its about git

[weary pivot]

this one?

it fails to apply patches

ill do the stacktrace

https://pastebin.pl/view/02323b66

this is the whole error with stacktrace

[arctic tapir]

try doing it directly on C:

also did you do those git commands the error said?

[keen fable]

hey ! anyone got that thing where stone generators occasionally generate cobblestone ? idk if it's only on folia but it never happened on paper (unless unloading chunks) (default settings)

[tranquil epoch]

i don't see any cobblestone there

[pine needle]