sk-discussion

[distant crown]

Hornet will say crap maybe

[opaque sigil]

like faeries swearing in Artemis Fowl

[distant crown]

That’s all

[potent plover]

sherma is canonically a dumbass

[hollow terrace]

Look at these serious characters designs

[true vine]

[hazy summit]

It only says that he gets in trouble
He'll never be as stupid as Zote

[potent plover]

that's literally zote

[hazy summit]

Trobbio gives me Dung Defender vibes, but a lil bit more funny and silly

[hazy summit]

Zote is more than that

[gray swift]

sherma is probably god

[brittle garnet]

[distant crown]

trobbio is gonna be a comedian

[hazy summit]

Sherma will definitely be more likeable than Zote

[distant crown]

Sherma voice will be weird to here

[uncut citrus]

Thats the main difference, SHerma is made to be likeable, Zote is made to be unlikeable.

[potent plover]

Trobbio seems to inherit the "narcissist" part of zote and sherma inherits the "short and needs your help" part

[potent plover]

nah sherma is gonna be a plot twist villain

[trim estuary]

Sherma is the MAN

[rapid topaz]

hi I'm back

[hazy summit]

he'll probably talk in a kinda soft voice and giggle

[distant crown]

Maybe a voice like quirrel?

[distant crown]

Do I call you etimo anymore?

[brittle garnet]

Can't wait for Team Cherry to make us like Sherma before killing him in a cruel and sad way

[hazy summit]

Sherma will try to drop hornet in a pool of lava, just like Knuckles tries to drop Sonic in Sonic 3

[rapid topaz]

It doesn't fit

[distant crown]

Anybody remember ballow?

[hazy summit]

Maybe in a more high-pitched voice

[potent plover]

unfortunately, Sherma is short weak so the plan fails

[trim estuary]

ballow? the blundering oblerisk???

[potent plover]

blobl??!?!

[distant crown]

No the bell guy in deep docks next to forge daughter

[trim estuary]

oh

[distant crown]

No one remembers him

[brittle garnet]

I do

[distant crown]

ballow

[hazy summit]

Sherma is going to do this and throw Hornet to the lava

[radiant wraith]

Hitting him is fun

Twist villains are tough to do right, they become frustrating on replay

[potent plover]

Grindle has a lot of potential

[distant crown]

No grindle I remember him I just want to throw him off of the top of the citadel

[radiant wraith]

If you knew Sherma will betray you but you can't do anything about it...

[hazy summit]

I always say i want to slay him so you are wrong

[potent plover]

what if you could?

[radiant wraith]

That'd be cool

[distant crown]

saly?

[hazy summit]

slay, that's what I meant

[potent plover]

lasy

[hazy summit]

Sally

[radiant wraith]

For example, by making him souffle

Or omelette

[hazy summit]

Maybe a plot twist villain is good if you kinda sympathize with them after the plot twist but the main character doesn't

Maybe if the plot twist villain had important reasons

And it's well executed

[radiant wraith]

Maybe

[hazy summit]

Although, i don't remember any plot twist villain

my brain stupi

who's that

[rapid topaz]

I'm almost shocked by the Davey Wreden's writing

[hazy summit]

who's that

[finite storm]

I reference grindle often

[rapid topaz]

Dev and main inventor of Stanley Parable

[hazy summit]

oh, right your username

[radiant wraith]

Wrong character hold on

[rapid topaz]

yeah, they fucking did it again

[finite storm]

I love grindle, he’s a bundle of chaos and I love him

[radiant wraith]

Uh nevermind, I don't remember any either

[hazy summit]

He doesn't even have a line

[coarse leaf]

Who is that character?

[finite storm]

Whenever crime comes up in a hollow knight context I make reference to the existence of grindle

[hazy summit]

The one i want to slay

[finite storm]

Basically I remember he exists

[hazy summit]

He's going to scam Hornet
Im sure

[radiant wraith]

Grindless

[finite storm]

You know it

[coarse leaf]

I also love Grindel

[radiant wraith]

Unsigma bug

[finite storm]

And I love him for it

[radiant wraith]

Also known as the pi bug

[coarse leaf]

Also known as 3.14 etc etc

[hazy summit]

Me too, i unironically hope that if he actually gets to scam Hornet you can kill him later

[radiant wraith]

Kill everyone

[finite storm]

Huntress might be silksong’s hunter, the caravan are silksong’s grubs, grindle and Seth are much more unique

[hazy summit]

Except Shrakra, shakra
i don't remember the name

[finite storm]

Not saying the huntress or caravan are bad

[hazy summit]

Seth looks very friendly but serious at the same time

[finite storm]

Yesh

[hazy summit]

Maybe his cloak is what gives him power

You can later see him without the cloak i think

[finite storm]

And Flávio

[true vine]

I think seth is the coolest character we know so far

also his boss fight looks really hard

[finite storm]

dunno if that’s how you spell it autocorrect did it for me

[hazy summit]

That's why i made fanart of him
I love him

[finite storm]

Yeah his boss fight looks really cool

[hazy summit]

Trobbio?

[finite storm]

Lessee

[finite storm]

Yes - In the trailer I thought he said Flávio lol

[finite storm]

Started as fan art, then became an official character, then back to fan art - full circle

[hazy summit]

Trobbio looks just like Seth but way more silly

[finite storm]

But seriously hype

[finite storm]

And I love him

[hazy summit]

Maybe they're the same specie

[finite storm]

I think they are

[hazy summit]

Because they look very similar

[finite storm]

They also both have a connection to a “voice”

Mossbag talked about it

[elfin geyser]

How much do you wanna bet that in silk song you have to fight the Knight

[finite storm]

£100 against that

[hazy summit]

I didn't know the voice was also related to Trobbio

[brittle garnet]

do they, though? Do they really?

[finite storm]

In every ending the knight is incapacitated in a way where either the knight can’t be fought or if it was it would be a different entity all together

[brittle garnet]

they don't

[hazy summit]

Kinda

[finite storm]

They do

[hazy summit]

They both have a similar shaped cloak and round head

[brittle garnet]

Seth's "Voice" is some kinda cryptic mystic force, Trobbio's "Voice" refers to him being a singer

[hazy summit]

he's not a Singer tho

[brittle garnet]

Trobbio's head is shaped completely differently

[hazy summit]

he's an actor

[hazy summit]

It's obviously round, but covered by the cloak

[brittle garnet]

as you pointed out they have cloaks, so i don't see how that would make them related species-wise

[brittle garnet]

mm no, it seems to just be that shape

[finite storm]

Hence me saying a voice, not the voice

They could be the same voice, it is still pretty vague

[brittle garnet]

you can see it's pointed when his head is facing upwards in the trailer

[hazy summit]

I thought he had a v shaped space in the cloak

[finite storm]

Also Seth can take his off so trobbio could take his off

[hazy summit]

well you are right it seems

[brittle garnet]

ok but, them wearing a similar cloak means nothing

plenty of characters wear similar cloaks

[finite storm]

We’re pointing out similarities

[hazy summit]

Wait but:
Now that i remember, Seth was designed later by a kid with a terminal illness

[finite storm]

Because they are much more similar than any pair of unrelated bugs

[hazy summit]

maybe the kid inspired in Trobbio

[finite storm]

Yes I know

[hazy summit]

and that's why they're similar

[brittle garnet]

he's a 'performer' which can mean all sorts of things done on a stage

[finite storm]

Maybe it’s a coincidence

[hazy summit]

oh right

[finite storm]

We just don’t know

[hazy summit]

most likely, yeah

[finite storm]

But we have to acknowledge they are very similar

[brittle garnet]

and it says he's a master of "the stage, the brush, and the voice" so obviously it means he's an actor, painter and singer

[hazy summit]

I now changed my mind

[distant crown]

Who made trobbio

[brittle garnet]

Team Cherry

[hazy summit]

Team Cherry originally

[distant crown]

What is the voice

[brittle garnet]

he can sing

[silent meteor]

what is the stage

[finite storm]

Matt trobbiani

[brittle garnet]

Seth also hears a "Voice" which is most definitely unrelated

[distant crown]

Ah

[hazy summit]

Probably something that hasn't got anything else to do with Trobbio

[silent meteor]

he has a goofy music so I'm anticipating a circus theme

[distant crown]

Main villian?

[finite storm]

Doubt it

[brittle garnet]

oh yeah Trobbio is voiced by a friend of Team Cherry named Matt Trobbiani

[hazy summit]

yeah, they addressed that

[finite storm]

But maybe

[hazy summit]

It was confirmed to have a silly boss theme

[brittle garnet]

probably not

[distant crown]

Silly boss theme like zote?

[brittle garnet]

I'd wager this "Voice" is the opposite of a villain

[finite storm]

(In response to the main villain thing)

[hazy summit]

oh right

[brittle garnet]

Since Seth is protecting something from the Citadel guys, and he was 'chosen' by the voice (presumably for this task)

[hazy summit]

I think there's something different happening with Seth
I don't think the voice is related to the song curse at all

[brittle garnet]

yeah I think so too

OR
the song curse and the voice are the same thing but like um, two sides of it

[silent meteor]

The stage

[hazy summit]

maybe the voice and the song come from two different sources

[brittle garnet]

well this relates to my very convoluted theory that the curse is the result of a higher being of some sort being kept prisoner in the Citadel and its power being used by [villain] for [something]"

[silent meteor]

don't spew too much news or else you'll accidentally spoil a major spoiler on the entire fandom

[brittle garnet]

and this 'voice' would be that Being influencing Seth from its prison

[silent meteor]

Seth is arrested?

[brittle garnet]

?

[hazy summit]

I like that theory, but i like to think that they are keeping captive spiders too, for having their silk and using it to control the people

[hazy summit]

Every spoiler is allowed in this chanel

[brittle garnet]

I really don't think they would keep spiders captive just for that reason

[silent meteor]

ok

[brittle garnet]

I am quite sure they have a major source of silk other than spiders

[hazy summit]

Then why did they want to kidnap Hornet

[brittle garnet]

Certainly not for such a mundane reason as getting silk

[hazy summit]

and why did Lace wanted to prevent Hornet from getting to the top of the kingdom

[brittle garnet]

That's too much of a surface level conclusion

[hazy summit]

The theory that they're kidnapping spiders for having their silk is not crazy
It has been argued before

[brittle garnet]

The guys who carried Hornet to Pharloom were the Citadel's Caste, so presumably they were carrying her to the Citadel, to use her for [thing] they needed her for. Lace wants to stop them from doing [thing] using Hornet, so she wants to stop hornet from getting there.

[silent meteor]

The ending of Silksong is when Hornet will finally When I heard that fleas contain bountiful foods, powerful drinks, and surprising amenities. I thought your gonna eat fleas

[hollow sundial]

The Fleamother

[hazy summit]

and why would they want her

[brittle garnet]

How could we know

[hazy summit]

There's a reason for the weavers to be hidden in Pharloom

[hollow sundial]

for silk
why would they want the silk? fuck if i know

[brittle garnet]

It's the entire premise of the game, how could we possibly glean that from a trailer and a couple character intros

It's literally impossible to tell why they need Hornet

[hazy summit]

if you check the footage of the gameplay closely you can see that when hornet hits an enemy there's silk connected to them
There's a curse controlling the enemies

[brittle garnet]

It's certainly because of her nature of being half-wyrm, and if they did need her Silk it's because it's special, not just because it's Silk

[silent meteor]

well I made some stupid theory on why the capture Hornet to seal some giant dude sleeping underneath pharloom.

[brittle garnet]

that goes beyond the boundary of reasonable speculation, i think

[hazy summit]

The only thing im not sure at all is why Hornet wants to get to the top of the citadel

[hollow sundial]

her falling was an accident, a sudden unleashing
that creature would probably be at the top

[brittle garnet]

well, we don't know if she wants to right off the bat

[hazy summit]

well, maybe she's told later to go or something
Maybe she decides later

[brittle garnet]

I'm guessing getting to the top will become her goal as you progress through the early stages of the game

[hollow sundial]

Refusal of the Call moment

[silent meteor]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx1OjmYwAPuag8Sa73Nvh0ailxvF1Zocmt

What mossbag said at the 2nd half is just a speculation

[hazy summit]

ok let's watch

[brittle garnet]

I have been saying that since 2019 lmao

[silent meteor]

lmoa

[brittle garnet]

the gilded golden fancy area is the Citadel

[silent meteor]

very

[hazy summit]

The city is two different zones

[brittle garnet]

city?

[silent meteor]

𝒻𝒶𝓃𝒸𝓎

[brittle garnet]

oh right

[hazy summit]

The gilded city, just below the citadel, and at the top there's the shining Citadel

[brittle garnet]

the "Gilded City" name has never been connected to any visual representation, and in fact it was never confirmed as an actual area name

[hazy summit]

It's a common name we use

[silent meteor]

If gilded city is like 2 seperate dualities like the City of water from a crying bish

[brittle garnet]

it's from a line that says "Hornet will journey through mossy grottos, misted moors and gilded cities..."

[hazy summit]

It seems that the city is very very big

[brittle garnet]

we already know misted moor is not the actual name of an area, so Gilded City might not be either

[hazy summit]

Also, there cannot be a citadel of there's not a city below
You can tell that by d
the definition of Citadel

[silent meteor]

From basic gilded sub-city to a more 𝒻𝒶𝓃𝒸𝓎 gilded sub-city

[hazy summit]

That's what we mean

[brittle garnet]

the definition of a Citadel is irrelevant
this is funny bug world

[hazy summit]

It's not actually

[silent meteor]

it's also mystyerious

Like how Gandalf came to life because he's a wizard

[brittle garnet]

it being called a Citadel doesn't mean it has to follow all the actual real-life connotations of a Citadel

[silent meteor]

I'd like to go soft around everything in your world.

[potent plover]

if you just enter a room and boom, you are in the citadel... That would be a little strange. It's an exaggeration but understandable right?

[distant crown]

Yes

[silent meteor]

name the first 2 word you immediately think of, and that's the force of 2 kingdoms you establish

[trim estuary]

so yeah that’s pretty accurate to Silksong

[hazy summit]

Team Cherry knows what they're doing

[brittle garnet]

ok? That doesn't say anything

[trim estuary]

imagine the citadel is a massive subroom

[distant crown]

I don’t know what to name my kingdoms

[silent meteor]

Why the heck did Pale king constructed a tramway shorter than blue lake

[brittle garnet]

They are artists and game devs, which means they can name things however they want in their funny bug fantasy world without having to stick to particular real-world terminology

[distant crown]

Not all bugs want to swim

Or they might not be able to swim

[hazy summit]

Im not saying that there are two different zones
One called the guilded city and one called the citadel
But they're physically there , they could be one zone but separated in 2 different segments

[hollow sundial]

yeah but the mossy grotto was one letter away so better call it the gilded cit

[silent meteor]

Thanks now I can craft a worldbuilding without ever worrying of any inaccuracies and flaws.

[distant crown]

Imagine silskong room randomizer

[silent meteor]

that'll be in the future

Imagine silskong multiplayer mod

[full rune]

silksong archipelago randomizer is gonna be lit

[hazy summit]

This fanmade map show's something useful

[distant crown]

Example:hornet falls into pharloom then in the next room is the final boss room

[trim estuary]

reeve?

[distant crown]

This map has a lot of false fanmade things in it

[full rune]

that black dot tho

[hazy summit]

i don't remember who made it
Reeves?

[trim estuary]

wait where’s snow monastery

[distant crown]

Likely

[silent meteor]

That's looks actually like its gonna be ingame

[trim estuary]

I tried to wipe it off my phone and almost got syrup on it

[brittle garnet]

ok but actually how many of you actually knew that a Citadel has to be above a city just from the top of your head before googling it

[uncut citrus]

:TKsaysShermaSaysYes:

[silent meteor]

though there could be more areas Team Cherry didn't reveal

[potent plover]

oh damn lmao

[brittle garnet]

Do you think anybody would care if it wasn't

[potent plover]

oops

[hazy summit]

well, they're are a lot of things made up in that map

[brittle garnet]

also the definition states that the a citadel is a fortress, typically overseeing a city
so not necessarily

[silent meteor]

WAIT A MINUTE

[uncut citrus]

Like basically everything is made up in there

[distant crown]

Silksong alternative name: Hornet and the gilded fortress

[silent meteor]

Why is Guilded city larger than Greymoor?

[potent plover]

does this mean pharloom will have a surface?? I mean hallownest had one too I guess... yeah...

[hazy summit]

Just stop being so much in disbelief dude

[brittle garnet]

Don't you think that since the Citadel is on top of the whole kingdom that TC used some creative liberty and made the Citadel oversee like... the whole kingdom, rather than just a city?

[silent meteor]

naww

dirtmouth is underground

[trim estuary]

YOOO SHARPES HOME IS IN HERE I JUST REALIZED

[silent meteor]

bugs are just too oblivious when they think it's the "surface"

[distant crown]

void?

[potent plover]

you think the citadel is just an underground structure too?

[trim estuary]

The citadel extends to the surface so they can contact humans

[naive flax]

Remember that giant spider from the old HK trailer

[potent plover]

final boss of silksong

[hollow sundial]

i think greymoor is gonna be later-game than deepnest
as in you can't bruteforce greymoor at low gear

[distant crown]

Yeah could be the final boss of silksong or at least a boss

[naive flax]

true

[uncut citrus]

[brittle garnet]

I do

[heady iron]

I hope one of the bosses is a hyperrealistic macro video of a spider

[silent meteor]

I want to point out

There's astronomy?

[distant crown]

How do insects build this stuff where do they even get the materials?

[keen blaze]

so true

[hazy summit]

But dude, the citadel is mostly populated by the high-class
At the bottom, in the outdoors you can see friendly bugs that are probably not that rich
I don't think there's would friendly bugs inside the palace grounds, that sounda dangerous for them

[potent plover]

I have a small little tiny minuscule feeling that greymoor will be the area to open up pharloom for exploration, like the city of tears in hollow knight.

[hazy summit]

There's a lot of evidence that shows that the city zone is separated in, City and Palace/Citadel

[uncut citrus]

I made this map with it being underground in mind
Idk why I even put an obvservatory tbh, I guess it could be to look at the wastes, rather than the sky if there isn’t any

[brittle garnet]

but it all looks so incredibly similar, why would there be a distinction? It all looks the same.

[hollow sundial]

nah i have the feeling thats the corral forest for some reason

[brittle garnet]

really? What's the evidence?

[hazy summit]

The difference is indoors and outdoors

[brittle garnet]

ok? that's not evidence.

[hazy summit]

There's a lot, took me a lot to get all of it together
idk jus watch Mossbag

[potent plover]

yall think there will be friendly "cult member" NPC's in the gilded city/citadel/anywhere?

[hollow sundial]

M

[silent meteor]

So i'm wondering why bugs care about looking at ceiling rocks

[brittle garnet]

Mossbag is not all-knowing, he just makes his own conclusions

listen I've been analyzing this since 2019

[potent plover]

some humans also care about looking at ceiling rocks

[distant crown]

Yes there could be

[uncut citrus]

Which is why it would rather be used to look at potential enemies coming

[hazy summit]

Im not saying that there's two different zones, im just saying that the city and the citadel might be part of the same in-game zone
You get a map of it and it's a map of both zones
The city and the citadel

[silent meteor]

Except they don't see it as a black hole or some kind

[brittle garnet]

anyway in an EDGE screenshot you can see here in the background what looks to be a brace connecting the citadel to what looks like a cave wall

[hazy summit]

Or, they could be two different zones

[silent meteor]

I feel like my creation is getting more inspired as time goes on

[brittle garnet]

Ah yeah I think this too, if the City is even ever differentiated in any way

[potent plover]

can't see it well but imma take your word for it

[hollow sundial]

it honestly looks more like the deeper city in the background

[distant crown]

This makes me so excited

[hazy summit]

It's very blurred by hornet's ability, i cannot see a thing

[distant crown]

Also this is the citadel

[hazy summit]

Citadel is in the inside of the buildings
at the top of the city

[hollow sundial]

corral forest = better wastes

[potent plover]

Hmm, maybe right at the end of Deep Docks is where the game opens up? it was the same with the 3rd area in hollow knight, the fungal wastes with the mantis claw...?

[distant crown]

I theorized that it was the fungal wastes of silksong

[silent meteor]

Also

[hazy summit]

You can clearly see the difference

[brittle garnet]

well not really actually, there doesn't seem to be a big difference

[silent meteor]

I don't think the ant tribe area will be under forest of bones

if it was

[hazy summit]

The round ball is the citadel

[brittle garnet]

the big ball at the top if just the very peak of the Citadel, seemingly

[silent meteor]

then it would be city of very very hot rocky tears9?)

[distant crown]

The giant silk ball is the top of the citadel likely

[potent plover]

[brittle garnet]

The ball doesn't look much like a fortress

[hollow sundial]

it sort of reminds me of those levels of the past in sonic cd but its the fungal wastes' past

[brittle garnet]

here, the un-darkened parts

[hazy summit]

ok i give up, I just don't know how to continue this discussion
wait nevermind I'll just look for more evidence

[potent plover]

what thef uxkck

[hazy summit]

I can only see a gate or bridge at the background

[brittle garnet]

ok so did you make the Pipe connection?

[trim estuary]

fancy

[hollow sundial]

how do you assume this is a cave wall

[silent meteor]

It's still nothing

[distant crown]

Looks like you screenshoted your tv while playing silksong

[silent meteor]

just like the dragon scroll from kung fu panda 3

[trim estuary]

He did

[distant crown]

No insult

[brittle garnet]

sorry my edge magazine screenshots aren't particularly high quality

[hazy summit]

what pipe

[distant crown]

Waaaaa

[brittle garnet]

ah, so you didn't

Look at the Citadel model in Trobbio's room

Do you see the 'cylinders' leadin up to the ball, converging in one place?

[hollow sundial]

it looks more like a fuckin radiance background than a cave wall

[silent meteor]

If I'm correct

[distant crown]

There are pipes in the citadel

[brittle garnet]

Lace's second arena, the one with flowers, It's the same place

where the pipes converge

[hazy summit]

Im not sure, it doesn't have the best quality the photo

[distant crown]

It’s under the citadel

[silent meteor]

Silksong could be 99.9% complete but team cherry kept adding more and more until they're confirmed it's now 100%

[trim estuary]

wait Jake why are you a grimm pfp

[hazy summit]

most likely

[brittle garnet]

you can actually see the pipes throughout different screenshots of the "city/citadel"

[distant crown]

Yeah

[hazy summit]

maybe the pipes transport resources

[brittle garnet]

I really don't think just the ball shape is the whole Citadel

[hazy summit]

[distant crown]

The ball shape is what lies at the top of the citadel it’s not the citadel itself

[hazy summit]

what's inside the ball anyway

[brittle garnet]

ok but counterpoint:

[distant crown]

Just a bunch of silk

[hollow sundial]

balls

[brittle garnet]

Yeah real great journey to get to the top of the tiny ball

[potent plover]

silk in the ball

[silent meteor]

Ari and Gibson likes to speak riddles

[brittle garnet]

non-argument

[hazy summit]

Ok but you know they just differentiated the citadel in 2 parts

[potent plover]

please tell me this is unironic

[brittle garnet]

my point is that the entire golden place is "The CItadel"

and if there's even a City in there, it's inside "The Citadel" area

[hazy summit]

Yes, you are right
Everything is the Citadel in the guilded city

But the two places, the bottom of the citadel and the top of the citadel are different

Different people remain in both parts

[silent meteor]

thee'll be a difference between a pale white and shining

[distant crown]

The top is golden and grand and the city is blue and stuff

[brittle garnet]

Therefore the Citadel isn't the ball. Glad we agree.

[hazy summit]

The balk is a part of the citadel

[brittle garnet]

yes, thank you. You were saying otherwise before.

[hollow sundial]

why the ball so huge

[distant crown]

It’s a big ball

[hazy summit]

But the ball and the buildings near it function as the citadel of the city
Because there cannot be such thing as a citadel without a City

[brittle garnet]

also, the ball being the symbol of pharloom, and the symbol resembling a ball of yarn, probably aren't coincidences

[distant crown]

Pharloom has a big ball of silks

[brittle garnet]

well I more subscribe to the idea that the Citadel is also a city

[silent meteor]

If Hollow Knight Lore has it's own periodic table

[olive bobcat]

Do you think TC ever spins a wheel on what to add

[brittle garnet]

but technically yeah that's correct

[silent meteor]

what's next? Palium?

[distant crown]

No

But I do think that sometimes

[hollow sundial]

Pale Ore

[silent meteor]

That's what I'm indicating

[potent plover]

that's how primal asspidss were added

[silent meteor]

more like pale ore is made of palium

like how bronze is made of tin from the farlands of tin land

[distant crown]

It’s made from the bones of fallen gods

[hazy summit]

Im sure they're both , the bottom and the top, part of the citadel
But the top of the citadel is more dangerous
That's where the high class bugs are
The bottom functions as a city, despite being considered as part of the citadel

[brittle garnet]

@hazy summit here read my theory https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PuDZwlUvySxSmT177rgdSnTax8cQxiYvFgEbX2aQ-7A/edit#

[hazy summit]

That's my entire point

[vestal wagon]

Hoping we get to fight a butterfly in the upper cathedral solely so I can say it's a reference.

[dim juniper]

It would be kinda cool if there’s an area inside a giant ball of yarn that hornet eventually unravels and it becomes a permanent change of scenery, or like collapses so you can’t return to it, ||kinda like how you can’t return to the lifeblood area in abyss once you get the charm||

[olive bobcat]

In other news

[distant crown]

Team cherry says that the citadel is where is the most intelligent enemies are as I said previously they can control silk as well

[olive bobcat]

On break rn

[hazy summit]

Ok so you are right
The bottom and the top are part of the citadel
Can't argue with that
But we can argue that both parts can be differentiated

[brittle garnet]

I am fairly certain that the ball is where you will fight the final boss, and stuff leading up to the ball will be places that you described, with the high class bugs

[hazy summit]

THE BALL

[hollow sundial]

why ball huge if ball has final boss

[hazy summit]

THE BALL!

[hollow sundial]

feel like waste ball imho

[hazy summit]

WHAT IF THE GIANT BALL IS THE FINAL BOSS!!!

[silent meteor]

King of Pharloom

[distant crown]

It’s a big ball

[hollow sundial]

why use lot word when few word do trick

[brittle garnet]

also reminder read my theory doc. Section 1 and the beginning of section 2 is examination of screenshot evidence so you might wanna give that a look

[hazy summit]

ok, I'll read this

[distant crown]

Maybe final boss or he’s dead

[hazy summit]

but don't forget this

[silent meteor]

I don't think he'll be a final boss.

[brittle garnet]

yeah yeah

[hazy summit]

Ok, let's look deeper on the definition of Citadel tho

[distant crown]

I don’t?

[hollow sundial]

final boss your mum

[silent meteor]

ffffuuuuk

[distant crown]

We don’t know if the king of pharloom is the final boss but it’s likely

[hazy summit]

me inteligent unlike u

[olive bobcat]

Queen of Pharloom supremacy

[silent meteor]

I hate the real life game's worldbuilding

[brittle garnet]

I had already in the past argued with people insisting that because of the definition the City has to be a separate area than the Citadel and they can't be both part of the same area

[distant crown]

Yes

[silent meteor]

now stupid magic

[brittle garnet]

so I was a bit biased from the beginning

[hollow sundial]

magic sparse pharloom

why use lot magic when few magic do trick

[silent meteor]

You see nothing and I'm gonna embarass myself

[olive bobcat]

Club of bugs that want to try learning magic but can't

Then Hornet comes along and wows them with her magic

[silent meteor]

There's no magic in Hollow Knight

[olive bobcat]

There is no lore

[hazy summit]

Ok but do you really think there's no city in Silksong?

[brittle garnet]

let's drop the definition part since we reached an agreement

[hollow sundial]

no cities?

[brittle garnet]

No, I just don't think the City is a very distinct, separate area.

in the game map terms

[silent meteor]

lack of explanation could be good if it's the point

[brittle garnet]

I am not convinced that "Gilded City" will be an actual area on the map

[hazy summit]

Ok so we know the difference
The Citadel is very merged with the city to be called a separate zone
we can agree to that

[hazy summit]

it's not a name but it's an appropriate name for describing what you see

[brittle garnet]

of course there will be a part of the Citadel that serves the purpose of a town and city

But that's about it

[hazy summit]

So, now we can get into real discussion

[hollow sundial]

the game is still like midway through development the aesthetics of gc and sc could spllit apart more when we have the actual game

[hazy summit]

What's at the top of the citadel

[brittle garnet]

yes, read the theory and come back with thoughts because it's 1:30 AM

[hazy summit]

im not talking about the ball

Im saying like, in between the bottom of the city and the giant ball

In the middle

[hollow sundial]

the pipe organ

[hazy summit]

do you think that boss we saw in the end trailer is located in the middle of the citadel?

[silent meteor]

It's literally just deep docks

[hazy summit]

The boss where everything kinda dark but there's light coming from the window in the background

[silent meteor]

I thought

[hazy summit]

not at the very end

[brittle garnet]

Mmm, I'm not convinced. You can see rooftops through the windows in the background. If you look at the Trobbio model, there are 3 tall towers in the Citadel, I think he is in one of those

[hazy summit]

Let's see

I'd like a boss being located in the middle of the main tower blocking your way
Not an optional boss you can skip

Or maybe it's not optional anyway

[brittle garnet]

I don't think we can speculate much more on that, tbh

[distant crown]

Theorize map of citadel and gilded city

[brittle garnet]

Last Judge is probably somewhere in the Citadel, though

[brittle garnet]

disagree

[hollow sundial]

Last Judge is probably somewhere around Last Judges arena

[distant crown]

Good for I aren’t concerned with that at this point of time

[brittle garnet]

That's ok

[distant crown]

Citadel and gilded city

[hazy summit]

we literally discussed this

[brittle garnet]

whatever

[distant crown]

anyways

[hollow sundial]

omg that rants dead corpse roaming around

[hazy summit]

Hornet at the bottom of the citadel and the Hornet ascending

[distant crown]

The golden area is the citadel right?

[hazy summit]

Everything seems to be the citadel

[brittle garnet]

the second picture is probably deeper inside the Citadel

[hazy summit]

deeper but higher

[brittle garnet]

yeah

[distant crown]

The bottom picture is up above and the blue looking place is actually in the new towns section

[hazy summit]

yeah, both in the citadel

[brittle garnet]

yeah, the upper picture is actually right above it

[hazy summit]

That's what they meant

[distant crown]

Wait the blue area is above the golden area?

[hazy summit]

what is blue?

[distant crown]

Well it’s like pale blue

[olive bobcat]

The quest board image

[brittle garnet]

no i mean the room shown in the upper picture is literally right above the plaza from the trailer

[distant crown]

That’s like pale teal color

[hazy summit]

the picture where hornet is with the quest board is at the bottom of the citadel

[distant crown]

I agree

[brittle garnet]

yeah

[hazy summit]

In the other picture shes ascending (wirh gorb)

[olive bobcat]

Ye

[brittle garnet]

what i mean is your upper picture is literally the room right above this one, you can tell because of the identical BG objects

[hazy summit]

@brittle garnet was right, there ain't such thing as gilded city

[olive bobcat]

Ok but let's start asking the real questions here

[hazy summit]

yes i can tell

[distant crown]

Also same color

[olive bobcat]

Do you think TC will spoil a big part of the map in a trailer again?

[brittle garnet]

hopefully not

[distant crown]

Yeah hopefully not

[hazy summit]

no, they will probably use similar footage
Except for the ending of the trailer where they might show some frames of something important but without any context so we don't know what is it

[olive bobcat]

By similar footage what do you mean

[brittle garnet]

they might reuse some scenes at least?

[hazy summit]

Similar footage, like all the zones we've seen so far and maybe some new

[brittle garnet]

they will probably not show off many new areas

[olive bobcat]

I see

[hazy summit]

maybe 1

But at the end of Silksong trailer Hornet is opening something with the weavers sign

a vault of some kind

[distant crown]

Or a weaver wakes up in an epic animated cutscene

[hazy summit]

They might show something like that in the release trailer

[distant crown]

Yeah I wonder what the music would be

[elfin swift]

i just want big dramatic church bells included into the score

[distant crown]

Lace them in silksong release trailer????#??!?!

[distant crown]

There will be likely but team cherry is doing mostly string music

[brittle garnet]

it seems like she is releasing a weaver from its cocoon

[distant crown]

And if there’s not that means more epic violin music

[brittle garnet]

EDGE even states that you find a weaver hidden behind a sealed door, sleeping inside of a cocoon

[distant crown]

Yessss

[brittle garnet]

the weaver teaches you a spell, in that instance

[silent meteor]

screenshot pls

[distant crown]

Yes

That’s where she gets silk spear

[hazy summit]

it says "or what remains of them"

[brittle garnet]

it means that there aren't many of them left

[hazy summit]

i don't think that sounds like they're alive

[brittle garnet]

not that they're corpses

[distant crown]

There are likely gonna be more weaver shrines that give abilities but silksong might have people like soul master who give you the ability and use it on boss battles

[brittle garnet]

"what remains of [the spider tribe] in this land" means that there aren't many of them left, not that she's gonna scour the remains of individual Weavers to get abilities

[hazy summit]

it doesn't say "the remaining ones" or 'the ones who remain"
It says "what remains of them" like they're material and they're not alive

[brittle garnet]

yeah but "them" refers to the whole group, not every individual Weaver

[hazy summit]

the object of the sentence is not [the spider tribe], it's the weavers

[brittle garnet]

the Weavers are the spider tribe

as explained the sentence before in the screenshot

[hazy summit]

yeah but when you say what's remaining of the weavers it's different

[brittle garnet]

no

[hazy summit]

yes ?

[silent meteor]

Can we have generic beetle bug that could be more of a boss like a Killer bean lookin ass dude?

[hazy summit]

It's logic

[brittle garnet]

why would it be? If you replace it with any other group it will be the same. "What remains of the [moths] in this land". The Moths were a tribe too.

[hazy summit]

n o

[rapid topaz]

me when waking up at 6am

[brittle garnet]

replace it with a group whose name isn't also their species, like "What remains of the [farmers] in this land"

[rancid crow]

but how long would be the citadel part?

[brittle garnet]

clearly it refers to their group as a whole being greatly diminished

[hazy summit]

But it doesn't say "what remains of the moth tribe"
It says "what remains of the moths"

[brittle garnet]

Ok? but that's also the name of their tribe

[hazy summit]

Moths is just the plural of moth

It doesn't necessarily mean Moth tribe

[brittle garnet]

but it sure can

[rancid crow]

i think it means or only few are alive or their legacy

[hazy summit]

it can, but not necessarily

[brittle garnet]

it sure makes more sense this way tho

[hazy summit]

Well im not denying that
It could be the case

But wouldn't be surprised if they're just dead

[distant crown]

All are likely dead

[brittle garnet]

well most of them probably are, that's why there's few of them left

[elfin swift]

or they all moved on to the dream world

[hazy summit]

Maybe there are alive spiders in the citadel

[brittle garnet]

they could have also just left for another kingdom, since we know they do this

[distant crown]

Some are slaves in the citadel (maybe)

[hazy summit]

we were using the moths as an example

[brittle garnet]

also Spider =/= Weaver

as in Weavers are spiders but not all spiders are weavers

[hazy summit]

Maybe there are alive weavers in the citadel*

[brittle garnet]

maybe

[distant crown]

maybe

[elfin swift]

since silk is associated with binding and sealing, it could also be a similar thing to the white flower ending, where some remaining weavers are bound away in a kind of pocket-dream somewhere

[brittle garnet]

But I wouldn't imagine dead weavers teaching Hornet how to use spells

[elfin swift]

god i'm so pumped to learn music and play songs as an important mechanic

[hazy summit]

Hornet has to open a chamber with a lever
Those mfs have been dead for a while, change my mind

[brittle garnet]

well if they're in a cocoon

they are probably hibernating

[elfin swift]

you have to help them find a lusus once they wriggle out

[hazy summit]

Team Cherry specifically said that Hornet's adventure would be more physical than magical

[distant crown]

Yeah

[brittle garnet]

true but that doesn't mean there will be no magic

[hazy summit]

at least not the same magic as in Hallownest

[brittle garnet]

it just means the world will be presented as less mystical and more grounded

[cedar sun]

Not from hornet, She couldn't manipulate soul even before she lost her powers

[brittle garnet]

but magic certainly still plays part and is a thing

[distant crown]

That’s what this man just addressed

[hazy summit]

The only magic might be the song curse or the last judge fire rings

[silent meteor]

The whole silk and song is magic

[brittle garnet]

well she can manipulate her Soul-Infused Silk
so it's close enough

[opaque sigil]

Which is manipulating soul

[silent meteor]

but there could ba higher being but the chances are quite low

[hazy summit]

Maybe the Last judge or the final boss

[brittle garnet]

there will most certainly be a higher being involved

[silent meteor]

Oh some wizard that makes fire rings

[distant crown]

What if last judge is like very hard endgame boss

[brittle garnet]

LJ doesn't look like a HB tho

[olive locust]

When silksong

[hazy summit]

yeah, but she's actually using her silk as a bandage

[silent meteor]

da last judge

[hazy summit]

yesterday

[brittle garnet]

well, an instant wound-healing bandage

[olive locust]

Can't wait

[hazy summit]

well its just a game

[brittle garnet]

Yeah but TC literally say her Silk is infused with her Soul

[distant crown]

They did?

[hazy summit]

yeah, but in a less magical way than the knight

[olive locust]

Hornet can use soul?

[distant crown]

Please provide further evidence of this claim

[brittle garnet]

her silk skills are most certainly part of her unique abilities

[hazy summit]

Not really

[brittle garnet]

gimme a moment

[hazy summit]

She can use her own soul

[distant crown]

ok

She uses her own soul to create attacks?

Yo thats epic!

[brittle garnet]

blogpost

[silent meteor]

Hornet should make a hundred voice lines if there'll be cinematic cutscenes mid-game.

[hazy summit]

No, she uses the silk she collects

[distant crown]

Ok

[olive locust]

Isn't that the same thing as using soul?

[brittle garnet]

Hornet's Silk is innately connected to her Soul, and she can clearly control it

[brittle garnet]

well you can't really separate the soul from the silk

[olive locust]

I guess soul powers come from the pale king

[brittle garnet]

probably

[hazy summit]

But she cannot manipulate and transform the soul
She cannot twist it like the knight does

[brittle garnet]

yeah

[distant crown]

Hornet can only use silk

[olive locust]

With soul in it

[hazy summit]

Hornet is not void

[brittle garnet]

Though we do not know the extent of abilities which Weaver Silk magic could achieve. We know they made seals with is, after all.

[crisp drift]

Hornet's silk and soul is intertwined ^^

[olive locust]

We know

[hazy summit]

It makes sense tho, she's half being

[hazy summit]

Changed my mind, Hornet is void

[crisp drift]

half higher being don't exist

[distant crown]

I’m being your being

[distant crown]

Yes hornet is half bug half god

[olive locust]

She wasn't thrown into the abyss tho

So she isn't void

[cedar sun]

She's a medium being

[brittle garnet]

But yeah Hornet's skillset seems to mostly include her swinging her needle around by manipulating her silk

[hazy summit]

ok but she's inherited some powers of higher beings

[distant crown]

Yeah

[brittle garnet]

which is a lot less mystical than throwing kamehamehas

[distant crown]

Like controlling silk?

[hazy summit]

I know, im joking
it's a common joke

[crisp drift]

Mmmm yes she inherited Pale King's power

[olive locust]

She can also do cool parkour

[crisp drift]

Soul manipulation that is

[olive locust]

Wrym power go SHAW

[crisp drift]

The silk stuff is likely trained by the weavers™️

[brittle garnet]

I am overwhelmingly confident that her combination of producing silk and being the child of a wyrm will have implications of some immensely significant and powerful innate ability which will become revealed at the end of the game

[distant crown]

Let’s talk about the cult

[hazy summit]

She inherited silk from Herrah and soul powers from the Pale King, the power to focus (kinda)
So it's a mixture
She can use her silk in kinda magic way

[distant crown]

Ok

[crisp drift]

The Weavers also can I mean, considering Midwife's dialogue

[distant crown]

Anyways cult so cult wants silk

[hazy summit]

She'll defeat the final boss with the power of love

[brittle garnet]

The weavers can also use silk for magic, yeah, but I think their silk doesn't come pre-infused with Soul, so they gotta do it manually

[olive locust]

Also git gud

[crisp drift]

More like the power of cringe

[hazy summit]

she'll git gud + magically win

[olive locust]

Women bad

[hazy summit]

Ok unironically i hope that doesn't happen

[hazy summit]

women based

[olive locust]

I'ma go play terraria now

[hazy summit]

bye

[brittle garnet]

What do you think the opening poem means

[hazy summit]

hmmm

[crisp drift]

Already forgor

[hazy summit]

you got screenshot?

[distant crown]

Pharloom’s folly is the tale of how the people of pharloom where foolish and it led it to there demise

[hazy summit]

Conductor Romino is certainly import character

[distant crown]

That’s basically the whole thing

[hazy summit]

This is obviously something that will awake later in the game

[brittle garnet]

I think not

[hazy summit]

it's says "when you wake up"

[brittle garnet]

well, that might depend on what it is

[brittle garnet]

sure but we don't know how long ago the poem was written

[hazy summit]

Maybe it's something that caused the curse

[crisp drift]

I don't know if the beast is literal

[cedar sun]

If they're a conductor does that mean there's gonna be trams like in hollow knight?

[brittle garnet]

the beast is not literal, 100%

[crisp drift]

It seems like a metaphor

[brittle garnet]

trolling?

[hazy summit]

No, its like he's controlling something like a song

[brittle garnet]

conductor is the guy who conducts an orchestra

[hazy summit]

yeah

He's conducting the song, my opinion

[crisp drift]

O p e r a

[hazy summit]

But the beast is someone else

[brittle garnet]

I think it's just a music-themed name of some position in pharloom, how volume is measured in beats and stuff

[crisp drift]

Yeah

[hazy summit]

maybe

[brittle garnet]

It might mean he's some kind of governor or something

[hazy summit]

But i Just cannot understand the poem

[jade wolf]

i was gonna say that yeah . maybe an overseer or director of something

[hazy summit]

My English is not that good

[crisp drift]

The folly to me seems like the Pharloom has some dark past and they decided to forget about it, and the folly is just the conductor reminding people of the past or smth

[hazy summit]

some words are confusing

[brittle garnet]

I think the poem, just like Elegy for Hallownest, is directed towards the kingdom of Pharloom itself

[jade wolf]

honeeestly to me it seems more like a prophecy?

[hazy summit]

that past might come to light again

[crisp drift]

The first two line might refer to the fact that current Pharloom is "fine"

[potent plover]

the poem gives a quick and foggy explanation on what's actually going on with Pharloom, I really like it

[crisp drift]

The rest would be like the point of the folly as in, they tell the message that it's not what you think it is

[hazy summit]

Is a Folly a tower?

[jade wolf]

it mentions how the heart is the thing 'bound in slumber and servitude'. they forget that when hornet comes and starts freeing people (grindle and the fleas) and cutting puppet strings (which we see when enemies die) and by doing that hornet is angering whatever is resting at the top of the citadel, which when faced with hornet will show a 'beastlike nature' for all to see

[brittle garnet]

'Folly' means 'mistake' or 'blunder'

[jade wolf]

it Can also mean tower

[hazy summit]

something stupid?

[distant crown]

Folly means foolishness

[hazy summit]

what if folly is a tower where the poem was written

[distant crown]

Pharloom’s foolishness

[cerulean sable]

what if hornet stabs someone, before pushing thm downwards t o the gorund

[hazy summit]

YES!

[distant crown]

Oh that would be epic

[potent plover]

pretty sure lots of enemies fall on the ground after being stabbed enough

[cerulean sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jif0UDEz43Q as demonstrated here

[jade wolf]

taco :-) hi

[hazy summit]

It's so funny how mods casually talk into the discussion and say something stupid and funny that little adds to the conversation

[potent plover]

it's kind of a thing that happens when you die

[cerulean sable]

hii

[brittle garnet]

hey Taco can you mod yourself to not interrupt genuine Silksong discussion when it' shappening? Thanks

[potent plover]

hi tacoo! !

[jade wolf]

oi dont be a cunt 😭

[potent plover]

Shut up Fool

[cerulean sable]

but im being serious about the riposte animations though

[hazy summit]

yeahz This is a one in a million situation

[cerulean sable]

like i genuinely am

[distant crown]

Bro he’s just coming in and just mentioning something

[hazy summit]

it's a joke

about how we never talk about Silksong

but this time we actually are

[distant crown]

Yeah

[hazy summit]

ok but

[distant crown]

let’s talk about the cult

[hazy summit]

what do you think folly means in the poem

[distant crown]

Foolishness

[hazy summit]

they're braindead

the follies are the cult , confirmed

[distant crown]

The fools are the cult and the people of pharloom

[brittle garnet]

They see your beauty, so frail and fine
The beauty of the kingdom is 'frail and fine', meaning 'flimsy', probably a facade that's easily seen through,

They see your peace, woven of faith and toil
This seems pretty self-explanatory, the 'peace' of the kingdom was achieved through hard work and faith in some religion, could also mean blind faith or exploitation of faith to utilise as labor

They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude
This is pretty cryptic. I think what this means, is that the kingdom was founded through some heinous act, or exploitation of someone (or something), that the citizens have forgotten about (or were lied to about), but which is still going on.

when you wake, they shall see your truth, a beast's nature bare to all
This means that when the citizens of the kingdom see through the lie or obstruction of truth, they will learn about the previous point, and the "beastly nature" of the Kingdom will be revealed;

I think the poem basically just talks about how the entire kingdom of Pharloom operates upon a facade, the "Folly" part is probably partially aimed at its rulers, pointing out the error of their ways in running the kingdom.

[frank sparrow]

👀 wut

[hazy summit]

Thanks, now i can understand more

[potent plover]

im think the poem means that grimn will be in silson

[brittle garnet]

I wish I could just wipe you from the face of this channel

[potent plover]

thank

[hazy summit]

silson

[cerulean sable]

also double standards the last time i tried starting 5 other actual gameplay discussion people just went through and started talking about celeste anyway but ok

[brittle garnet]

those people weren't me

[distant crown]

hi everyone

[hazy summit]

Messilksong

[cerulean sable]

just saying 🎵

[potent plover]

hi magno

[brittle garnet]

you can't blame people for stuff other people have done

[digital glen]

yeah imagine doing that

[jade wolf]

archie maybe chill a little 😭

[brittle garnet]

some people slighting you doesn't justify you slighting others

k, morality class ended

[cerulean sable]

im not blaming anyone but its just something notice in hindsight but chill

[hazy summit]

Oh this really makes sense

[rancid crow]

and the fact that they're saying "They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude" represents the hipnosis/puppet state of some citiziens of the kindgom

mainly beacause of the threads when you kill an enemy

[potent plover]

you simply cannot fall over if you are alive, ovbiolsy

[hazy summit]

He has a passion

[rancid crow]

i think habitants of the citadel wont have that

[brittle garnet]

I think it's something else, the "Heart" doesn't refer to the citizens I'm pretty sure

[distant crown]

They have the threads on them

[rancid crow]

ye maybe us

[brittle garnet]

"they forget" and "when you wake" i think does refer to the citizen, though

[hazy summit]

Who do you think they exploit

[brittle garnet]

well I think that's very hard to say with the information available but ||My theory is about that, read it||

[hazy summit]

can you resend it please, heh

[brittle garnet]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PuDZwlUvySxSmT177rgdSnTax8cQxiYvFgEbX2aQ-7A/edit#

[hazy summit]

thanks!

[brittle garnet]

Ok, and with this I will be going to sleep, It's almost 3AM

[distant crown]

Ok

[brittle garnet]

do ping reply me with your thoughts when you're done

[hazy summit]

I'll be back in some minutes
Gotta read this and do some other stuff

[distant crown]

ok

[rancid crow]

But who serves who?

[trim estuary]

lore

[cerulean sable]

so fucking true bestie

[silver oak]

yet more proof that mods are secret playtesters

[potent plover]

I can't move myself help🥰 🥰 🥰

[cerulean sable]

anyway apologies if i somehow "slighted" people here for a discussion, im used to SS discussion having 0 actual discussion for the past 3 weeks so i just popped in out of context so please dont think of it as me trying to slight people here k?

[potent plover]

grilled cheese sandwiches are based

[trim estuary]

eden*

[potent plover]

evan*

[distant crown]

eden?

[trim estuary]

EDEN D

[cerulean sable]

im you idiot

[distant crown]

grilled cheese is best

[silver oak]

most of the time you "popping in" involves you pretending to talk about silksong but actually just talking about medieval weapons

[potent plover]

medieval weapons are based

[cerulean sable]

hey that was during off topic talks tho

last time i tried talking here i was trying to discuss immersive tutorial integration

[distant crown]

Silksong actually takes place in 2017

[cerulean sable]

3 walls later that didnt go anywhere

[silver oak]

you could always just bring up easy mode again

[cerulean sable]

oh please no

id rather talk about something else than easy mode anymore

i wake up and people are still fighting over it

[silver oak]

it's funny tho
it works so well

[distant crown]

You said medieval

[cerulean sable]

its like my last resort

[silver oak]

sleep more

[crisp drift]

Let's talk about food lore in Silksong then

[distant crown]

You said silksong takes place is medivallll

[cerulean sable]

real shit though this was something i wanted to talk about last time

something something "just let me play the game" something

[distant crown]

Lurk

[silver oak]

the bind thing is much cooler than a lore tablet tbf

[cerulean sable]

exactly

you forgor

[silver oak]

💀

[cerulean sable]

look the best alternative has always been as long as the player wont shut the fuck up about what im supposed to do its good

[crisp drift]

Also less headache for lore peeps
Like "higher beings, these words are for you alone" 🥴

[silver oak]

who is higher beings and why is he so lonely

[vivid belfry]

I think the ideal tutorialization level for general use is very little up front, with a shitton of optional nuance explained in pause screen

[cerulean sable]

yeah

theres the alternative where the player talks to themselves with "that place looks high, lets see if i can reach on top of it"

[vivid belfry]

shooting myself in the foot but I think hollow knight exists outside of general use

[silver oak]

meanwhile fighting games with 30 minute tutorials and 200 combos

[crisp drift]

So true

[cerulean sable]

honestly the little details i think are left behind because i feel like they were meant to be a "discover on your own" scenario no?

i cant think of any example but there are games where they give you the controls to this one mechanic without mentioning that theres additional tidbits related to it

on the other hand "i cant believe i learned this by myself" then on the otherhand "i hate how this game doesnt tell you enough"

[silver oak]

yeah I think players should be incentivized to use spells a lot more

there's really only 2 or 3 places where they're "needed" and all of them are for checks, not combat

[cerulean sable]

honestly if they add more scenarios where the enemy is invulnerable that alone will promote spell use

IMO

shielded types and what not

[silver oak]

baldur type beat

[cerulean sable]

pretty much

[vivid belfry]

here's the thing about binding

[proud vale]

Boss that turns ethereal

[cerulean sable]

but a lot more universal

[distant crown]

Do you think skips would exist in silksong?

[cerulean sable]

please no i hate how fuckers can stall the game

[vivid belfry]

it incentivizes spell use much more in the midgame, but much less in the early game

[proud vale]

Yah they were mentioned by TC themselves I think

[cerulean sable]

i mean, they intentionally added skips in 1

[silver oak]

I hope so
Skips make the game more interesting

[vivid belfry]

people are going to be much more scared to use skills before getting any spool upgrades

[cerulean sable]

they even said theyre surprised but happy to know when people learn more skips they didnt intend to

[vivid belfry]

but I think once you get a couple, new players are going to realize hoarding silk isn't effective when you are forced to burn 9 at once

[silver oak]

oh wait that's true

once you can chain them so you're getting a lot of silk back, they could be useful

[cerulean sable]

i still feel like wtv the spool system we found in the demo is vastly different from what we have now

[silver oak]

but if you're getting hurt a lot, every skill is just a higher chance of death

[cerulean sable]

yeah and they do 6-7 combo delays

that ends with an AOE

and then they run off then throw daggers before you can punish them

[silver oak]

aoe?

[cerulean sable]

area of effect\

[crisp drift]

Area of effect
Anything that affect everything (unless the thing is immune to the effect) inside said area

[cerulean sable]

basically explosions

[vivid belfry]

idk the only thing that seems significantly changed (other than whatever fuck shit crests and tools will do) is the number required to bind

[cerulean sable]

but yeah just a feeling, SS they probably felt the difficulty on balancing the healing system

well thats just my guess at least

[silver oak]

curly made a ui comparison and the modifiers that you can put on look so weird

[cerulean sable]

OK OK im just thinking, remember those segmented silk bars

what if they allow you to heal once you reach the threshold

BuT

[silver oak]

here

[cerulean sable]

each segment reprsents how much health you will get

[crisp drift]

You have to grate the earth?

[cerulean sable]

maybe

[silver oak]

so adding more takes more silk, but also heals more?

[cerulean sable]

yes

essentially

but the flipside is you still consume all of it

again these are just speculations like anything else

[silver oak]

I would expect that bind is a fixed rate, but by getting more spool you can have some left over

[crisp drift]

So the heal would be more forgiving then

[cerulean sable]

for the sake of spells i do wish you can have an extra margin before you can heal

ye

[crisp drift]

Since the full bar 3 masks heal is meant for aggressive playstyle no?

[silver oak]

But they would have to really regulate the amount of extra spool you could get

[cerulean sable]

yeah but the flipside is enemies will beat the shit out of you more to compensate

the iframes iirc are way lower

[silver oak]

I'm still very optimistic about silksong but even if it doesn't reach the level of HK, it'll still be a hell of a lot more interesting

[cerulean sable]

honestly

all im asking is for more Hollow Knight

[fringe pulsar]

More lore more gore

[cerulean sable]

my main issue is probably gonna be on the story

its hard to gauge a developer that has only made one g ame

[silver oak]

dunkey said something like that 3 years ago and no one has summed up the hype better since

[cerulean sable]

and i swear to fucking god i will destroy you if you mention hungry knight

[crisp drift]

Mmmm i hold lore & worldbuilding above gameplay

[silver oak]

ugly jesus vs. mummy

[cerulean sable]

as long as i dont get shitty exposition dump im fine

[silver oak]

ok #hk-lore regular

[crisp drift]

Pharloom's Folly is sort of exposition no?

[crisp drift]

It's not my fault i have skissue

[opaque sigil]

TC didn't really do the whole shitty exposition dump thing in HK so I don't see why they would in SS

[crisp drift]

Think TC will attempt to make sure you can beat the game with as little lore knowledge as possible

[cerulean sable]

i hate games where like

in the year 325, the king xilarmus of the eastern city died leaving his 17 children a piece of his hair which they all fought over. one of the sons is prince of markital, malivek the IV who create the combined forces of the abdicatus imperium and the 15 tribes of algaramarmuth to take the kingdom from his father at the year of 327 there the congregational of our holy lord beheld the curse of alrak'guth in order ot stop him warping their flesh into the yaday adyaydayayydayya

ill be honest, ill probably forget about that shit 15 minutes in the game

[crisp drift]

History class in games, pain

[silver oak]

Alright here's my list for things I expect to be good in SS:

1. Music
2. Art/Cutscenes
3. Boss design
4. Movement
5. Combat/skill managment
6. Lore (don't care much)

[cerulean sable]

which is why its good for HK because it starts with the only objective is to use a staggering amount of violence against Hallownest

[silver oak]

this is ordered

[crisp drift]

Music is also important oh yeah
Love Christopher's music

[cerulean sable]

Music is what im excited for too

but tbh

some of larkins combat music are okayish

[proud vale]

Ah so Elden Ring

[cerulean sable]

lmao

[tawny basalt]

Characters

[silver oak]

Really, just do what hollow knight did and don't make it worse

[crisp drift]

Though i won't be able to play the music anytime soon

[cerulean sable]

look im not saying all the combat music are bad but 80% of what i liked about the OST is the ambient ones

[silver oak]

Dark Souls does this too

[silver oak]

Yeah CoT theme is in my top 5 osts easily

[cerulean sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAmgPYMY3o8 i still think this is underrated though

[crisp drift]

The ambient is definitely better

[cerulean sable]

especially with the use of ghostly howling in the background

[silver oak]

Reflection is also really good

[crisp drift]

But i still like False Knight's or Broken Vessel's

[cerulean sable]

i never liked false knight that much tbh

[proud vale]

City of tears theme

[silver oak]

game design rant with ttacco incoming

[cerulean sable]

maybe i just came in the era where a combat theme has to have blaring choirs

[crisp drift]

Probably

[cerulean sable]

but fast forward now, i listen to the Elden Ring ost and i feel like most of them are meh

[crisp drift]

But iirc you don't like Radiance's theme no?

[cerulean sable]

yeah

it feels uhh, a bit artificial

[crisp drift]

I envy no slowmo

[cerulean sable]

for me at least

especially Godmaster's theme

ESPECIALLY GODMASTERS THEME

[proud vale]

Imagine recalling TTaco’s specific music tastes

[opaque sigil]

https://youtu.be/xWRYIYe_I9w

[crisp drift]

But yeah it does feel a bit artificial

[cerulean sable]

wow cant wait to play this once they port this in the Switch which i know Nintendo will definitely do instead of leaving their games into abandonware territory

[silver oak]

I don't know if this is something that's just me but I like almost all music

[cerulean sable]

you didnt have one of those "dbustep bad led zeppeling classic music good" phase?

[hollow terrace]

Maybe game ost music is bad

[crisp drift]

Should've done Mozart's Queen of the Night style /j

[silver oak]

It is very rare where I will actively criticize a song

[cerulean sable]

yeah if its sounds good i like it

if i dont, then i just find it boring and move on

[crisp drift]

I still enjoy godhome music and radiance's, but not as much as the rest

I still find Hive having no OST a shame

[cerulean sable]

the only time i criticize OST is because of ender lilies because i think everything sounds the same piano and viola composition

[silver oak]

I mainly listen to 200 bpm rhythm game shit so not really

[cerulean sable]

also the music is very reserve even for boss fight

[cerulean sable]

based

[dim juniper]

It’s a good theory

[cerulean sable]

Godhome's ambience is good

[crisp drift]

Viola or violin-

[silver oak]

godhome more like godawful

owned

[cerulean sable]

but hearing the
HAH, HAH HAH HAH HAH at the intro makes me wanna kill someone now

[crisp drift]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[cerulean sable]

like i wont blame someone swapping the music out after a 1 hour long boss rush grind

[hollow terrace]

it been two years but I remember that bit vividly

[silver oak]

I still haven't beaten p5

I got to absrad stage 4 like 6 months ago and gave up

[crisp drift]

I have accepted my fate of not beating P5

[cerulean sable]

but yeah what i like about HK is it knows when to stfu and when to go sad music

Ender Lilies is probably one of the first games i had to turn off the music for an area

[hollow terrace]

Simo