sk-discussion

[keen kite]

Or has it long been abandoned

[cunning geode]

your choice

[serene chasm]

For some it is

[trim estuary]

Long been abandoned ||by most people||

[keen kite]

I want to be a part of the hivemind

No rational thinking from me nono

[serene chasm]

Least the smart ones

[trim estuary]

Another life down the drain

[keen kite]

Thank you all for the enlightenment, I will now read up on any possible messages from Leth that may have been sent while I wasn't here and head back to sleep

[atomic sparrow]

y'all might call this a "mistake"
I call this a blessing.

[keen kite]

Night knight

[serene chasm]

Don't forget to misconstrue everything he says

[keen kite]

I won't forget at all, it's my favorite activity besides inhaling copium

[trim estuary]

You… don’t forget?? I am being driven insane

[coral scaffold]

where were the little bugs taking hornet in the trailer

[cunning geode]

to Pharloom

[coral scaffold]

who were they

[cunning geode]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

bugs from pharloom

[coarse leaf]

They are bugs

[trim estuary]

Cultists

[opaque sigil]

Citadel caste is the actual name for the faction

[hearty plank]

They were fam…. They…. Those bugs were my siblings

Hornet killed them….. sorry to get emotional………. My bug dad were looking for bug milk

[trim estuary]

🤨

[coarse leaf]

I’ll have two number 9’s
A number 9 large
A number 6 with extra dip
A number 7
Two number 45’s, one with cheese
And a large soda

[trim estuary]

Is this the wrong server again

[elfin swift]

and do you want all that just thrown together into a single garbage back with no other boxes napkins or containers for the individual items?

[trim estuary]

“December Division” what’s that?

[tired lake]

[coarse leaf]

I’ll take a double triple bossy deluxe, on a raft, 4x4 animal style, extra shingles with a shimmy and a squeeze, light axle grease, make it cry, burn it and let it swim.

[trim estuary]

[thorn grotto]

we can't grill the patties in mustard

[elfin swift]

i forgot to change my name after december ended and then just decided to stick with it december release date forever the faithful shall be rewarded in heaven

[thorn grotto]

look it has to be released eventually

and February is at least something to cling our false hope onto

[hardy marsh]

Make it cry

[split tide]

If not this year then next year

[hardy marsh]

[shell yacht]

[opaque sigil]

Any year ig

[still dragon]

its obviously coming out in [[redacted]]

what does this mean

[opaque sigil]

That's how you activate wikibot

[serene chasm]

you tried bot

[opaque sigil]

for instance [[Charms]]

[serene chasm]

[[silksong]]

[still dragon]

Redacted
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No Silksong Release Date here

[serene chasm]

[[silksong release date]]

[still dragon]

I try talking like Spamton and the bot reacts to it.. 1997 release date confirmed??

[shy kiln]

Spamton uses only 1 [BRACKETS AT EITHER SIDE OF WORD]

[thorn grotto]

Maybe it'll actually come out this year

[fallow rock]

silksong is just a myth

[opaque sigil]

@marsh ibex Another one for the counter

[shy kiln]

I made 2 ‘Silknever’ jokes just for him to update the counter, and he still hasn’t

[brazen needle]

neversong

turns out the first half of the never part of silknever is whe. so it's a combo silksong and whenever

so silksong comes out WHENEVER we want

[fallow rock]

that's not a "silknever" so it doesn't count

[opaque sigil]

It's the same and he updated the counter so it does count

[fallow rock]

dang it

also guys what's going to happen to this channel after silksong comes out

[shell yacht]

[shy kiln]

Nothing, it will still be insane

[thorn grotto]

we use it to talk about the actual game?

[shell yacht]

nobody listens to the turtle

[thorn grotto]

instead of throwing around or desperation for a release date

[gilded adder]

my Silk friends. I am back from my Genshin session.

[fallow rock]

because i'm going to miss the off topic like rants and other type of sh^t this channel used to do in the ways that's been keeping me going with hope one we will have one of those out of left field off topic moments where it's subtle into madness and the charm of it. It's what makes #sk-discussion so great and not as worst then hk memes so in td;lr: i'm going to miss the random off topic shit this channel does once silksong comes out.

[gilded adder]

The old must die for the new to be born. It is a lamentable fate but something that must happen.

[shy stirrup]

wow did not except such wisdom from the hollow knight server

[thorn grotto]

yeah

[shy stirrup]

ss-philosophy

[fallow rock]

well then so destroy #hk-meme in order to make new memes gotcha

welp #sk-discussion is dead

[brazen needle]

Its been 10 minutes

although your point still stands

[main obsidian]

Who is yall favorite NPCs from the gameplay/trailers we have so far?

[fiery coral]

The Conqueror of the St- oh wait you mean Silksong

uhh Hornet looks cool

[proud vale]

SHERMA

[fiery coral]

favourite NPC though hmm

[proud vale]

I like Sherma they look so goofy

[fiery coral]

[shy kiln]

[fiery coral]

Ooh yeah Seth's cool

[burnt topaz]

I like the tiny guy in the bell town

[proud vale]

Also Lömm

[shy kiln]

gives off a vibe

[fallow rock]

rest in peace little man your a angel now and your work will be remembered

[shy kiln]

Anyway, my fav must be that red bug boss

[fiery coral]

Jonny

[fiery coral]

Carmelita?

[gilded adder]

But can any one Silksong NPC stand up to the GOAT that is Alexander the Iron Fist?

[fiery coral]

[fiery coral]

https://tenor.com/view/smash-home-run-alexander-the-iron-fist-2022-gif-23834640

WHEEEEE

His voice is so cool

[gilded adder]

My hype for Elden Ring grows everyday. I don't have the money for it now but hopefully I'll be able to buy it on launch or shortly after.

[fallow rock]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!

[proud vale]

Pot man

[gilded adder]

Ironically enough, Genshin Impact has made me more excited for Elden Ring. I guess playing what I assume to be a similar game has made me love the genre more and get into it more lately.

[brazen needle]

Why doesnt anyone question what hornet is saying in her fights

[fiery coral]

SHAW?

[brazen needle]

like is she just yelling "die" and shit or is it some kind of spell

or is she just grunting

[gilded adder]

She's yelling stuff in the bug language

[fiery coral]

her battle cries

[brazen needle]

but what is she yelling

[gilded adder]

We don't know what it means exactly

[brazen needle]

Imma take this to the lore channel

[proud vale]

Can’t wait to unbox some wifus in elden ring

[gilded adder]

[proud vale]

You guys seen this?

[brazen needle]

Turns out lore doesnt know either

[gilded adder]

Yea, it's funny.

[proud vale]

I wonder how side quests will work in ER

[opaque sigil]

Because the cries have no prescribed meaning

[serene chasm]

shaw = fuck

[brazen needle]

ediro = off

[serene chasm]

she is just swearing in the fights

[brazen needle]

shaw ediro = fuck off

[gilded adder]

They might function like the organic quests in HK.

I also really like how we have the open world and then dungeons within the open world, makes the world feel more lived in and massive.

Elden Ring

[brazen needle]

yeah I thought you were talking about smthng in ss

[gilded adder]

We already have an idea as to how quests will work in SS.
Some will be organic and some will be more formal and Hornet has a logbook that keeps track of all of them.

[brazen needle]

yeah I think so too

[serene chasm]

I really wish AAA games werent so expensive here. I would love to play ER

[gilded adder]

Is it 70+ where you are?

[serene chasm]

Yeah. ER on steam is 79.99

[brazen needle]

same here

[gilded adder]

Oof. Where do you live?

[serene chasm]

Canada

[brazen needle]

same

[gilded adder]

Ah, makes sense.

[shy stirrup]

so pretty much just hks quest but in a larger quantity and more streamlined

[brazen needle]

I'm worried ss will be laggy on my laptop

I have a pc but it doesnt have bluetooth or a speaker

[gilded adder]

Some will be more streamlined and some will be the exact same as HK.

[shy stirrup]

idk if you live ontario but the games here are taxed (digital and physical) so typically per aaa game im spending $100

[brazen needle]

Im in ontario and it doesnt do that for me

[shy stirrup]

really? all digital games are taxed for me

[brazen needle]

They are taxed but not that heavily

[serene chasm]

Nah. Im from Alberta. There is some tax here, but nothing that much. Then again I almost never buy AAA games anymore

[brazen needle]

At least in my experience

[gilded adder]

Does current HK lag for you? Because if it doesn't then SS most likely won't. SS will probably be as optimized if not more than HK due to experience and better coding.

[brazen needle]

Hk lags sometimes but its mostly good

[shy stirrup]

just checked its about $10 tax

for an aaa game at full price

[brazen needle]

I could also just get a longer headphone chord and use my pc

[shy stirrup]

i have a pretty mid laptop and if i try to run it above 720p hk drops to like 40 fps lmao

prolly why i do everything other than mods on my switch

[serene chasm]

[rancid swallow]

imagine actually buying aaa games

[shy stirrup]

like i still love a lot of aaa games but these prices are absolutely insane

[sullen fractal]

hollow knight would lag on switch for me sometimes

[shy stirrup]

especially because im a nintendo fan and their games never go on sale

[radiant wraith]

Yeah, it feels hard to justify when they can get like 20 times more expensive than some indie games

[shy stirrup]

ive never had a single frame drop on hk on switch

i used to have input lag for some reason

but its disappeared now

[fiery coral]

insert 'AAA bad indie good'

[brazen needle]

I have never bought an aaa game in my life. Indie is just more my style

[shy stirrup]

i mean everyone has their own preferences but it does get a bit annoying sometimes

[radiant wraith]

Like I showed before, here Fifa 22 is 30.5 times as expensive as Hollow Knight. I can't really justify buying a AAA game for the price of 20 indies

[shy stirrup]

wdym "style?"

[serene chasm]

SS should be better coded and more optimized than HK. So hopefully it will run better then HK on similar hardware

[fiery coral]

Preferences are fine but I've seen a fair few people dislike some games purely because AAA

[brazen needle]

Idk I just like them more

[shy stirrup]

fair

[hollow terrace]

you mean half of the userbase of this server

[shy stirrup]

man i just like good games

[fiery coral]

Or if not dislike, believe them to be inferior to most indie games purely because of that reason

[radiant wraith]

There are some things indies cannot offer and some things AAA cannot offer either

[shy stirrup]

those things being?

[fallow rock]

AAA games are okay

[sullen fractal]

around bee area on switch I would drop to like 8 fps sometimes

[serene chasm]

AAA games kicked my dog and drank all my beer

[hollow terrace]

points are being proven right now

[shy stirrup]

aaa game = good
indie game = good

roguelite = bad

[worthy lichen]

I will literally murder you

[brazen needle]

I dont mind aaa games as a concept I just personally think that most indie games are better for me

[gilded adder]

roguelites are great wdym

[shy stirrup]

really?? ive never had that happen to me

[fiery coral]

Now that I get

[brazen needle]

What the flying fuck roguelites are great

[shy stirrup]

i just CANT get into them

i kinda like dead cells??? but idk i just dont enjoy them that much

i prefer more intricately designed games

instead of computer generated (which albeit, is still good!)

[gilded adder]

Fair enough. Roguelites can still be intricately designed though.

It's not all computer generated.

[brazen needle]

I guess you can like what you want ||but what you like is wrong||

[shy stirrup]

also i dont like the difficulty im bad

[serene chasm]

Personally I dont think indies are better, but the lower price makes me less likely to have a bad taste in my mouth if the game I got isnt as good, or just not for me

[radiant wraith]

Indies simply cannot provide those high budget things you'd see in a game like Uncharted, with action scenes and other stuff. An indie developer could not make an Uncharted 4. As for advantages for indies, there's often more innovation in indies I think, both in gameplay and in the kind of story they tell. They take more risks; weird-ish stories and games like Hotline Miami would never have happened for a AAA

They are different experiences

[worthy lichen]

noita is an incredibly based roguelite

[shy stirrup]

thats actually a super good way to sum it up

[fiery coral]

Hm, fair

[worthy lichen]

I just play games idfc, if it's good I like it

[shy stirrup]

like i played enter the gungeon for like 4 hours and never got past the first boss

i will say, deadcells has really fun combat

[radiant wraith]

Besides, games with emphasis on high realism graphics are sort of monopolized by AAAs

[shy stirrup]

god i hate "realistic" games

[fallow rock]

hey who wants to talk about chris chan

[shy stirrup]

go outside i stg

[serene chasm]

who?

[brazen needle]

Despite being a mega fan of roguelites I've never played gungeon

[worthy lichen]

I ain't gonna not buy a game because a big company made it

unless it's nintendo

[shy stirrup]

https://tenor.com/view/starwars-obi-wan-now-thats-a-name-ive-not-heard-in-along-time-gif-11814407

[radiant wraith]

I can enjoy both realistic and stylized graphics really

[shy stirrup]

thats not strictly me but yeah i definitely lean towards nintendo a LOT more

[serene chasm]

What is a realistic game?

[fiery coral]

I've seen RDR2 being criticised for trying too hard to be realistic

[shell yacht]

not in this server

[fallow rock]

sorry

[shell yacht]

but it does realistic well

[shy stirrup]

that was prolly a bad way to put it but i meant in the style/graphics department

[worthy lichen]

I said the opposite of that

[shy stirrup]

oh i misread

[brazen needle]

just wondering, does anyone else here know this guy

[worthy lichen]

I can't stand behind their practices

[radiant wraith]

No.

[shy stirrup]

i prefer cartoony games a lot more as they;re just visually more appealing to me

[fiery coral]

For some people it's rather inconvenient at times, from what I've read

[hollow terrace]

Can I say I HATE twitch/youtube when watching playthrough of games with realistic settings because holy fuck the bitrate become 180p

[shy stirrup]

not to say hyper realistic games arent beautiful, but they dont really look unique yknow

[serene chasm]

I kinda know what you meant. I was wondering if you had examples. Like is Red Dead a realistic game? I assume something like Battlefield falls under that

[shy stirrup]

i would say something more along the lines of like detroid become human, spider-man (great game still!), etc

like they dont really stand out at all visually

[radiant wraith]

Realism in graphics can work with great effect at times, if the game benefits from it

[fiery coral]

Hold a button for each individual drawer to open, clean your gun regularly, keep feeding your horse, make sure you don't feel too cold or too warm, make you're not underfed, overfed, that kind of stuff

[shy stirrup]

i think forza is a game that benefits from it

[fiery coral]

@shell yacht

[shy stirrup]

speaking of racing games is it just me or can anyone just not tolerate racing games (other than like mario kart or something)

[serene chasm]

Ah. The PS game style. Thats fair. But that style does sell. most everyday people who buy those games dont want cartoony style. Seriously people flipped out when windwaker was first revealed, and now its considered one of the best zelda games

[shell yacht]

its not that attentive holy crap

[hollow terrace]

oh you mean project zomboid

[radiant wraith]

I just don't play them, doesn't mean I don't "tolerate" them

Many games are just not for me

[shy stirrup]

i think its really the audience. For some reason cartoony nintendo games sell really well but for example mainly xbox players prefer realistic looking games

[fiery coral]

Haven't heard that name before

[serene chasm]

Track racing games arent that fun anymore for me, but I do love me some Rally games (ok I only play one, but still. Rally games are fun)

[hollow terrace]

project zomboid is a indie survival game with those mechanics

[radiant wraith]

Ah yes, my friends got into Project Zomboid recently, most of them have already stopped playing

I guess the game is not for everyone?

[hollow terrace]

its those "HARDCORE" games where they put all the focus into the hardcore and once you get through the threshold of hardcore it becomes a waiting game

[serene chasm]

I would assume that the switch, and other nintendo consoles are usually the family console. So people who have those are more likely to want family friendly games. The other consoles are usually owned by people who dont have families, so they would be more into gritty games

[shy stirrup]

yeah that makes sense

[radiant wraith]

I see. It did seem like that type of survival game

[trim estuary]

[proud vale]

Who’s excited for the open world Kirby game

[gilded adder]

I am, even if I can't play it.

[shy stirrup]

Its not open world, still looks good tho!

Seems more like mario galaxy style levels

[gilded adder]

I think the big thing is that it's the first mainline 3D Kirby game.

[shy stirrup]

Ye

[gilded adder]

Looks awesome nonetheless. Hope it turns out good but this is Kirby we're talking about so of course it's going to be good.

[shy stirrup]

I just hope it has SOME challenge

Not asking for like sekiro levels or anything. Like at least super mario odyssey level

U can still have an option for very easy like smo does with assist mode

[glossy gazelle]

Same

The main thing with star allies is that, it’s way too easy

[daring hemlock]

Silk song comes out the day the queen dies confirmed!

[shell yacht]

what

[pseudo briar]

hey fellow developers can i have silksong for my birthday, release it in jan 27

kidding

anyways any hope that silksong will release this march?

[vivid belfry]

why not

[split tide]

It’s as good a month as any

[gilded adder]

Hello Grover

[serene chasm]

They should release it march cause that the best month

[vivid belfry]

hello Jonny

I have been binging a shitton of anime instead of doing productive things like making art

[gilded adder]

Anime good.

[vivid belfry]

I finished the anime adaptation of HxH and now I understand the hype for chimera ant

[gilded adder]

yesssssssss

[vivid belfry]

I also watched megalobox and beastars season 2 finally, and I'm in the middle of cells at work

[gilded adder]

chimera ant is phenomenal

[vivid belfry]

20-30 episodes into chimera ant I was like "everything about this is phenomenal, except the main villain who's a boring asshole, not like it matters because he's barely in it"

and then a wise man told me "the man is like a fine cheese. you must let him age"

[gilded adder]

Muruem's development is one of the best things in anime imo

[vivid belfry]

anyway silksong

[pale oasis]

u guys watch fullmetal alchemist?

[shell yacht]

yes

[split tide]

It’s good

[shell yacht]

megalovox s2 was a trip

[serene chasm]

silksong is best anime

[pale oasis]

im confused. ok so PowderedWater is talkin about something ive never heard of

um ab, u talkin about fma or the other anime or silksong

[vivid belfry]

there's a hollow knight boss that keeps showing up in my dreams, with the same design and the same location on the map even if the dream was previously unrelated to hollow knight or videogames in general (don't ask me how I know what the map looks like outside the context of videogames)

it's a roughly false-knight sized orb-ass beetle with six legs and a black carapace, and it's located in a pitch-black duct system so it's extremely difficult to see

[shell yacht]

yes i watched FMA
also a show called Megalobox Grover mentioned

[vivid belfry]

every time it appears I am washed over by a wave of dread

[shell yacht]

is no face haunting you

[vivid belfry]

true! I can't tell where it's face is; it kinda reminds me of the orb tanks from nier automata

[opaque sigil]

no face isn't a beetle tho

It's either an ethereal ghost or has like super well defined limbs attached to an ethereal body

Also Spirited Away reference

[split tide]

FMA

[shell yacht]

still havent touched neir

nier?

[opaque sigil]

Nier pretty sure

[pale oasis]

ok we have based people in chat. nice

[fierce seal]

Brotherhood or no

[viscid root]

Hey guys I just discovered a silksong easter egg

[gilded adder]

Yea, it's Nier. I've played the original Nier Gestalt and it's my favorite game but haven't played Automata yet even though I own it.

[opaque sigil]

I played a bit of Automata but I never finished it

[viscid root]

Hollow Knight Silksong has an n, g, o,n and you know What else has those letters?
Exactly Never Gonna Give you up

[vivid belfry]

I played automata and I own replicant but haven't played it

[pale oasis]

both are good

[gilded adder]

Play it. I haven't played Replicant but it's supposed to be a better version of Gestalt in every way, save for the fact that I prefer Papa Nier over Brother Nier.

[opaque sigil]

It's always nice to play a good remake

[vivid belfry]

I don't even know who nier is so I don't understand

[digital mural]

guess im going on a queen hunt

[gilded adder]

Nier is the canon name of the main character. The game had two different versions released initially. Gestalt in the west and Replicant in Japan. The versions were near identical save for the fact that you play as a dad with his daughter in Gestalt and a brother with his sister in Replicant.

[vivid belfry]

oh weird

anyway Automata is a pretty good game, but I was disappointed by the boss fights

[gilded adder]

iirc it was because they thought western audiences wouldn't really relate with a brother and macho men in video games were popular at the time so yea

[vivid belfry]

the best one is like 3 hours into the game (in terms of visual design, difficulty, and fun)

[gilded adder]

Is that the one with Bipolar Nightmare as the ost?

[opaque sigil]

Damn that's a hell of a name

"Bipolar Nightmare"

[gilded adder]

Song bangs too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxN2JmyT2ew

[vivid belfry]

no it's the one with A Beautiful Song as the ost

bipolar nightmare is a banger, and so is every song on the ost actually

[gilded adder]

Oh yea, that one is really good too. I managed to get to Pascal's Village in Route A when I played for a bit but never continued.

[vivid belfry]

but I will never stop being mad about the song choice for the final boss

[gilded adder]

Keiichi Okabe, the guy who did the OST for both Nier games is a master of his craft.

Nier Gestalt/Replicant have an amazing OST. One of my favorites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeYqTwVgt7A&ab_channel=IceOST

[vivid belfry]

I'm not saying it's a bad song, just that there was a more fitting one on the soundtrack that they could have reused

[gilded adder]

Yea, I know. I haven't gotten to the final boss nor do I know what the final boss track is for Automata so I'm just talking in general. Luckily, the final boss for Gestalt/Replicant has a perfect track to accompany it.

The story for Nier Gestalt/Replicant is actually insane, my favorite story in anything really if I'm being honest. It's definitely the highlight of the game for me, love it to bits.

[glass elk]

i wish silksong would have more areas like deepnest where the point of the level is to make you feel out of your depths
also more platforming-heavy levels like crystal peak and the queen's gardens

[opaque sigil]

Hopefully not like CP, that place kinda sucked

[serene chasm]

you suck

[glass elk]

crystal peak is honestly one of my favourite levels

[opaque sigil]

True

But CP enemies sucked and the conveyer belts got old fast

[glass elk]

i like how many unique mechanics they gave it while still letting the level feel consistent

[vivid belfry]

crystal peak sucked on my first playthrough because I tried to brute force the resting grounds exit without lantern (didn't find crystal heart)

[glass elk]

some of the enemies are annoying tho

[vivid belfry]

but now it's one of my favorite areas

[glass elk]

but basically every level has annoying enemies

[vivid belfry]

the only real problem with crystal peak now is that sometimes crystal hunters don't play their windup animation before attacking

[serene chasm]

I want an area that makes deepnest feel like a walk in the park

[opaque sigil]

deep sea area deep sea area

spider crab boss

[glass elk]

there's a coral reef zone

[opaque sigil]

Deeper
Darker

[serene chasm]

with deep sea creatures. I love it

[opaque sigil]

Anglerfish boss

There's an item pickup light but when you go to get it it attacks

[shy kiln]

Don’t take that out of context

[glass elk]

the main problem with a lot of HK levels is that outside of visuals, they're not that different

[opaque sigil]

Eh even in terms of visuals they tend to be pretty similar

Especially wrt colors

[vivid belfry]

I will fight you

[opaque sigil]

ok

[vivid belfry]

people who say HK is just blue haven't played HK in months

[opaque sigil]

It's a lot of blue and purple

[serene chasm]

Its all cool colours

[opaque sigil]

It's not just blue but there's a ton of it

[shy kiln]

Hive is the most different area in HK
It’s couloirs are too good

[glass elk]

exept the hive but that's a small area

[opaque sigil]

Shame it's so small

[glass elk]

i wish the hive was bigger tbh

[vivid belfry]

I think the cool colors are an integral part of setting the tone

[shy kiln]

Yeah
But Deepnest isn’t

[opaque sigil]

They are but that doesn't make it less repetitive

[vivid belfry]

deepnest has the biggest mixup from the standard navigation formula and everybody hates it for that 😤

[glass elk]

im not sure how i feel about silksong being brighter than hk, there is definitely more opportunity for unique zones, but i feel like it would give it a less melancholy atmosphere

[opaque sigil]

I don't hate deepnest for that, I hate deepnest for the dirtcrawlers

[glass elk]

i love deepnest because of that

[serene chasm]

I agree. It would probably have felt off if everything was bright warm colours

[opaque sigil]

Less melancholy atmosphere seems to be intended

[vivid belfry]

anyway I found HK's areas to be way more distinct than something like metroid dread

[opaque sigil]

Definitely moreso than dread yeah

[cerulean sable]

silksog base drop

[shy kiln]

SS seems to be a way less dark game than HK

[opaque sigil]

But dread visuals were pretty damn dry and uninspired

[glass elk]

but less so than say, super metroid

[serene chasm]

I think they are going for more contrast with the colours in SS.

[vivid belfry]

-guy who hasn't considered the implications of the puppet enemies still being alive

[shy kiln]

[opaque sigil]

Hornet commits murder

[proud dagger]

Silksong is pretty clearly less dark from the get-go because the kingdom where it takes place is not a ruin that’s been dead for decades if not longer

[serene chasm]

Those dark depressing areas like greymoor or barnacle land will feel much more so when you just went through a bright area like coral forest. And vice versa

[opaque sigil]

Yeah though whiplash can be a thing

[azure hound]

Silksong at E3?

[opaque sigil]

There's something to be said for a more consistent aesthetic, although thus far I do prefer SS's approach

[glass elk]

i like royal waterways for a similar reason to deepnest, i don't think it's as effective but i like the reward of isma's grove as a sort of relief from the literal and figurative shit

[azure hound]

So long

[proud dagger]

I think Greymoor honestly feels pretty similar in tone to HK compared to the other Silksong areas

[opaque sigil]

Similar in tone, yeah, although not in visuals all that much

[proud dagger]

Darker area with a colder vibe and mostly in ruins

[opaque sigil]

Greymoor is much more, well, grey

Like you can tell at a glance that any greymoor screenshot wouldn't belong in Hallownest at all

[glass elk]

we've seen the deep docks intergrate multiple unique mechanics (lava, hot coals) so i hope that's a trend for silksong's levels

[vivid belfry]

greymoor is ancient basin dug up

[glass elk]

greymoor gives me bloodborne fishing hamlet vibes

[vivid belfry]

lava is just another hazard, but the coals are cool

[opaque sigil]

Only so long as they don't get gimmicky, yeah

[glass elk]

the falling lava (the one that requires timing)

[vivid belfry]

ah fuck, coals aren't cool, I fucked it up

[proud dagger]

That is a fair point, but it’s still a lot closer

[vivid belfry]

falling lava is just a buzzsaw on a track retextured

[serene chasm]

judging from what was said in the edge article, they want to add a lot of little interactable things to the world

[opaque sigil]

When games try to keep up new unique mechanics it can fall apart pretty spectacularly

[vivid belfry]

or a little garpede

[shy kiln]

The most visually flushed area in HK IMO is Fog Canyone, but it still faces the problem of being small

[proud dagger]

The coals are definitely interesting, I kinda hope there are some hidden areas in Deep Docks that can only be accessed late-game with high-level platforming challenges

[shy kiln]

I think Fog Canyon is the smallest area in Hallownest?

[proud dagger]

I’d say there’s lots of potential there

[serene chasm]

those are going to be fun watching speedrunners perfectly time dashing through them

[opaque sigil]

Silksong speedruns are going to be wild

[vivid belfry]

I don't think the timing looks that strict tbh

[glass elk]

no that would be either howling cliffs or the hive

[vivid belfry]

but yeah I'm very much looking forward to any% that doesn't revolve around spamming the dash button

[proud dagger]

Also, something I hope to see in terms of areas is a couple of ones like Howling Cliffs that are fairly small and out of the way and don’t really have a ton of important stuff there, more just to add flavor

[serene chasm]

A lot more hidden areas in general. Nothing important, just cool things that you can discover even after 100s of hours

[shy kiln]

Oh, HC is smaller, I didn’t know that

[vivid belfry]

I just hope the first final boss isn't much more of a bastard than THK

[shy kiln]

I wonder how Hornet will insult the bosses before fighting them

[serene chasm]

she will play a song in the middle of the fight

[vivid belfry]

I wouldn't bet on most of them talking

[shy kiln]

Can we say that Lace is playing the same role that Hornet played in HK?

[serene chasm]

Im going to put all my points into speech so I can talk my way out of the final fight

[vivid belfry]

from a structural standpoint maybe, definitely not from a story point though

[serene chasm]

we cannot

[proud dagger]

Yeah I mean most bosses in HK just kinda dropped in and immediately chose violence

[glass elk]

probably, there are also definately at least 2 fights against her

[shy kiln]

Yeah

[proud dagger]

Don’t see any reason to expect that trend to change in Silksong

[glass elk]

except chad mantis lords

[shy stirrup]

Tbf most of them are infected

[cerulean sable]

obligatory finished Furi and i really like the "if you beat the current phase, you regain an extra try + health refill" because psychologically its pushing me to play better so i can save the run vs to "oh i dont have enough health for the later phases at this rate im gonna wipe, might as well restart" feel which Silksong's new healing system is gonna take fruit from

[vivid belfry]

that was kinda how the stagger system in HK worked to begin with, it's just more effective now because you can actually get silk during staggers

[glass elk]

as much as people hate on the delicate flower side quest, i wish silksong evolves the concept by giving us missions in which we can't rely on fast travel

[vivid belfry]

maybe just one, otherwise it seems like unnecessary padding

[cerulean sable]

yeah well in Furi theres not really any "healing" system other than random green projectiles which you need to hit to spawn a health pack, or via parries which is risky if you fuck up the timing

rather than "find a corner, huddle in it, wait until you heal enough"

[serene chasm]

get sherma across the map. If he gets hit he dies instantly and you fail. Also he agros everything

[proud dagger]

If there are quests where we have to go alongside NPCs like people are speculating I guess that’s kinda similar

[glass elk]

or maybe just more areas like deepnest with long stretches without a checkpoint

i just love the exploration in hk and i want silksong to really lean into it

[proud dagger]

Honestly I think a challenge like the flower but instead of no damage you have a time limit could also be interesting and would really test your mastery of the whole map

[shy kiln]

That would be a kind of Speedrun

[vivid belfry]

baiting people into the speedrunning lifestyle I see

[proud dagger]

Sort of but it’s one specific challenge specifically based around getting across the map

[serene chasm]

That makes me think to the time trails in Ori.

[glass elk]

something like that

[opaque sigil]

Time things aren't my favorite but so long as it's not too demanding I wouldn't mind

[proud dagger]

In general I’d really like to see a challenge that seriously tests your knowledge of the map on a grand scale, although it’s kind of hard to come up with ways to do that

[opaque sigil]

Randomizers are good for that but those don't really make sense as built in features

[vivid belfry]

I wanna see a challenge that works like break the targets in smash bros

[serene chasm]

minigames?

[glass elk]

maybe you could have to visit 3 points in really difficult areas without fast travelling or resting

[vivid belfry]

you have a set amount of time to break a bunch of dummies in a platforming arena, if you win you get whatever quest reward the training grounds asshole feels like shelling out

[proud dagger]

Honestly I kinda dig the idea of minigames, it would do a good job making the world feel more lively

[vivid belfry]

I would imagine it happening fairly early in the game and only require the core moveset to let new players get used to the finer points of their mechanics

IE requiring chained pogos or quickly jumping between ledge grabs

[serene chasm]

If I cant join these bastards for a game of bug gwent, I dont want SS

[glass elk]

i like how silksong is introducing ant enemies
seems like a missed opportunity for hk (except god tamer)

[proud dagger]

I like the idea of bug gwent tbh, I prefer my minigames to be entirely disconnected from the main mechanics of the game. Makes them feel more special that way.

[vivid belfry]

god tamer is actually a cockroach according to the backer who designed her, although it's not confirmed what bug she is in-universe

[opaque sigil]

Well either way she looks nothing like an ant

[cerulean sable]

that backer being one of our art mods

[vivid belfry]

this is why we need guitar hero needolin

[glass elk]

it's an ant lol

[opaque sigil]

It's not

[vivid belfry]

ants aren't the only bugs with antennae

[serene chasm]

tamer is a cockroach according to her backer

[glass elk]

damn mandela effect maybe but the body plan is similar

[proud dagger]

Like for example most Zelda games have minigames but I kinda found BOTW’s to be lacking because they were pretty much all stuff like climbing a wall, gliding fast, or shooting things while riding a horse, all of which are things you do normally in the game

[opaque sigil]

There are a lot of bipedal bugs

[glass elk]

aren't cockroaches oval shaped tho

[vivid belfry]

I actually have objective evidence that god tamer isn't an ant

[opaque sigil]

HK bugs don't adhere to rl anatomy. At all.

[cerulean sable]

you mean Team "We didnt really account IRL anthropology and biology for our characters" Cherry

[vivid belfry]

if you rewatch the silksong trailer, you will notice that ants are biologically predisposed to dumbass thick cranial carapace crushing thighs

[glass elk]

i always thought of it as an ant but alright

[cerulean sable]

also skulls in Silksong, bugs aint got no skeles

[glass elk]

exoskeleton

[vivid belfry]

bones appear in hollow knight

[copper knot]

dashmaste- 🏃💨

[serene chasm]

I wouldnt want a card collecting game like gwent, but some in world game would be interesting

[vivid belfry]

like the ancient caste corpses very clearly have tibiae and fibulae

[cerulean sable]

i do not endorse undertale on this server

[proud dagger]

Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of bug chess

[copper knot]

i do not endorse you

[cerulean sable]

ill just ban you

[copper knot]

literally 198-

[cerulean sable]

santiago

[serene chasm]

Here is something that I think would be a cool idea. In Oblivion there is the arena, where you can choose to fight in, or bet on fights. I dont know why but I would love to bet on 2 mobs fight eachother

[proud dagger]

That honestly sounds really fun

Especially if they had like a bunch of little unique fight animations

[vivid belfry]

always bet on short ant

stand still and spam horizontal projectile? tried and true smash bros strats

[serene chasm]

I do hope the talk of better AI pans out

[cerulean sable]

high expectations and all that, were guaranteed to have that one single "did TC think this was a good idea to actually add into the game" moment

[vivid belfry]

Markoth Jr

[opaque sigil]

Rosary strings seem adjacent to that already

[proud dagger]

I liked the Colosseum of Fools but honestly it didn’t really feel that much like a proper arena because it was always you against basically a whole army

[glass elk]

rosary strings just seem like relics or millibelle

[hollow terrace]

if not we can add a “better ai” mod which just makes mobs more aggressive

[cerulean sable]

well see it in practice

i remember reading stuff about

[opaque sigil]

The stringing mechanic

[cerulean sable]

an FPS that did add actual really good ai that flanked and shit

[opaque sigil]

It costs rosaries for minimal benefit

[cerulean sable]

playtesters adendum was:
"fuck the AI a bunch of cheating pieces of shit"

[glass elk]

halo?

[cerulean sable]

dunno which game it was

but it was a single player game

[vivid belfry]

well I'm sure there are noobs who would use the stringing mechanic if it appeared in HK

[proud dagger]

The best enemy AI is dumb in entirely intended ways

[vivid belfry]

even if it's only used in the first playthrough, that doesn't make it wasted design space

[cerulean sable]

so they toned the ai down back to "bruh why cant they make better ai???"

[opaque sigil]

Probably, people do use millibelle, but it just seems of minimal value

[cerulean sable]

i dont like using millibelle because i need to haul my ass halfway across the world just to get to the bitch

[vivid belfry]

I don't think SS needs to have sophisticated AI and I don't think it actually will

[cerulean sable]

at that rate i might as well just spend my cash

[vivid belfry]

the basic enemy patterns are just gonna require more thought to circumvent

[opaque sigil]

Yeah

[proud dagger]

Yeah the enemies don’t have to be smarter, they just have to be less formulaic in their actions

[glass elk]

platforming game enemy ai should be kinda simple

[opaque sigil]

And maybe more complex behaviors

[hollow terrace]

But Alien isolation had cool AI and it was Goty

[opaque sigil]

But complex behaviors =/= sophisticated ai

[cerulean sable]

go full dark souls where enemies have like nigh infinite combos and the 3rd slash is always a delayed one that fucks up your dodge

[vivid belfry]

hey even formulaic can be effective

[hollow terrace]

one day all game AI will act like Alien isolation xenomorph’s ai

[glass elk]

complex ai is good for thing like stealth games and imersive sims

[vivid belfry]

if the enemy only has one attack but it's a bitch to deal with

[cerulean sable]

Isolation iirc uses 2 ais actually

[opaque sigil]

Also predictability is not a bad thing in a game ai

[vivid belfry]

like I don't think anybody complains about belflies being too easy

[proud dagger]

If the first enemy in Moss Grotto can’t LIGHT PUNCH MEDIUM PUNCH LIGHT KICK HEAVY PUNCH me I’m uninstalling

[opaque sigil]

An unpredictable enemy is a wild card, it's hard (if not impossible) to plan around them

[vivid belfry]

or primal aspids

[cerulean sable]

like the 1st ai is the "search everything inside this room" and the 2nd being "dumbass, he may or may not be at this other room"

[hollow terrace]

Like like… a boss… in a certain…. boss rush mode…

[fiery coral]

aBS&RNG

[hollow terrace]

if I say anymore I will be suspended

[glass elk]

the reason hk could have so many unique enemies was that it generally kept them simple

[gilded adder]

LET ME TEACH YOU HOW TO DO AN INFINITE

[cerulean sable]

what they just pause the game

and go

[serene chasm]

were they really unique though?

[opaque sigil]

Not mostly

There were a lot of resprites

And slight changes

Enemies really boiled down to a handful of core archetypes

[proud dagger]

Let’s not forget that the example they gave of a more complex enemy was a thing that runs at you except it speeds up as it goes, so not exactly Deep Blue out here

[cerulean sable]

"Hornet, this is Sherma speaking, this is a very difficult enemy, see this attack? you have to Dodge when it does this, press RT to dodge at the correct time

gif sample of Hornet dodging the attack"

2nd prompt:
"The game will unpause after this message, make sure to press dodge the correct moment
Hold A for 3 seconds to close this message"

[glass elk]

yeah but even if you combine the reskins it's still a lot of enemies

[vivid belfry]

most were unique with a couple of "the same guy but blue now" and goombas

[serene chasm]

Also when they say more sophisticated enemies, I think they mean that they will have more then 2 moves

[opaque sigil]

Maybe not but it's a step up from just sorta lumbering at you

[vivid belfry]

and honestly I think having colosseum enemies be resprites of earlier enemies is in line with the kind of challenge that it is

[proud dagger]

Yeah obviously, I’m just saying we shouldn’t expect the standard enemies to be pulling 200 IQ counterplays

[glass elk]

of course it's not deep blue
its alphago level
/s

[hollow terrace]

How ironic that TC would repaint hollow knight and sell it as silksong

[vivid belfry]

if delicate flower is the test of navigation you've been doing the whole game, and white palace is the challenge of platforming mechanics you've been using the whole game, then colosseum is the test of combat you've been doing the whole game (unless you never learned how to pogo spikes you dumb asshole)

I didn't learn you could pogo spikes until my second playthrough because it's never necessary minus path of pain

[serene chasm]

so youre saying that youre a dumb asshole?

[glass elk]

the radiance would be the final test of boss fight mechanics then (ignoring godmaster), as a lot of it's and HK's attacks come from simpler bosses like the arena-high wall of damage from traitor lord and the tracking fireballs from soul master

[vivid belfry]

yes

[proud dagger]

I worked it out at literally the first possible opportunity where you get FOTF, honestly took me a while to get the hang of pogoing things that are alive though

[vivid belfry]

idk why, I just assumed you couldn't

and I was playing on keyboard so I never did it on accident

[serene chasm]

Its not really explained well tbh

[proud dagger]

I mean it’s not explained because it’s an optional mechanic

[glass elk]

i knew i could do it before i started so i tried to get fury of the fallen and died in the process

[serene chasm]

optional sure, but still important. I just think they could have done better in teaching the player it was a thing. I know they did so in the area where get the first spell (names escape me), but that was only that you can attack down, not necessarily pogo spikes

[glass elk]

maybe it's just something that they thought most people would eventually discover on their own

[vivid belfry]

this is false because I didn't know you could attack down until I got stuck in fungal wastes

[glass elk]

vengeful spirit btw @serene chasm

[vivid belfry]

you can break those boards by swinging forward while standing on top of them

[serene chasm]

according to graig thats where it was meant to teach you that. But yeah, I dont think it did it well.

[opaque sigil]

Yeah iirc it was originally going to serve as a tutorial to force you to downstrike but then it got changed because people got stuck or something

ngl I'm kinda baffled by people not finding out about downstrike at least (if not pogo) early on

Like how do you not stumble across that

[cerulean sable]

the tutorial was in Mounds

[opaque sigil]

You know you have directional attacks, and you know you can attack midair, how would you not try aiming down

[cerulean sable]

the floor breakables was supposed to be done with pogo

but like, they buffed the nail range before release

so it just broke on standard attacks

[glass elk]

i mean not all games allow that
dead cells literally only added that as an option in the hollow knight crossover

[opaque sigil]

And yet that doesn't mean people don't try it to check if they can

[serene chasm]

Down strike makes sense. It's the idea of being able to pogo spikes that isn't very intuitive. Your first reaction isn't im hit these spikes

[opaque sigil]

Not to pogo off spikes, no, but once you attempt to use downstrike you will notice the existence of pogo, and then all you have to do is, like, notice that you can smack spikes (even from the side) to know you can bounce on them too

[glass elk]

when i started blasphemous it was literally the first thing i checked
turns out i couldnt

[opaque sigil]

ig some people just don't experiment with controls at all when they start a game, that's really the only way not to stumble across pogo

[mint valve]

well good knight. see you all tomorrow

[narrow lava]

cya

[carmine sapphire]

bye

[glass elk]

a tutorial for pogo could have looked something like this
there could be a prompt at the bottom of the screen like "strike downwards in midair to bounce off objects"

[serene chasm]

Yeah. That could work. I mean there is an area that teaches you how to look down

[cerulean sable]

i havent played a 2d platformer for a long time

and the game is in melee so directions isnt something i thought of

[split tide]

In my experience hitting background hazards isn’t going to save me

[opaque sigil]

Prompts are stinky

All the tools were given for the player to find pogo on their own, a prompt would've been excessive

[glass elk]

there are prompts for jumping and attacking

[opaque sigil]

Basic buttons

[split tide]

I’d just make pogo explicit

Maybe it’s a bit jarring but I don’t mind it for this one case

[opaque sigil]

Game doesn't tell you about dash/wings recharge either

Expecting players to experiment with their moveset is hardly unreasonable

[split tide]

Sure, but in the case of pogoing on spikes specifically I’d argue it’s counterintuitive to expect hitting spikes below you to not kill you

[serene chasm]

The game gives you visual cues for those

[split tide]

It’s how it works in pretty much every other platformer I’ve played

Like shovel bouncing on spikes kills me in shovel knight

[glass elk]

bruh hk-discussion is discussion silksong and ss-discussion is discussing hk

[carmine sapphire]

wings recharge when you hit the ground

[opaque sigil]

Except pogoing is going to be learned probably from enemies and background objects and then generalized to spikes, since spikes clearly indicate that they can be struck if you hit them from the side

[serene chasm]

Or am I so use to Shadow cloak and regular cloak has no cue

[split tide]

There no moment where you need to hit spikes from the side

[opaque sigil]

Or when you bounce

[opaque sigil]

But there are plenty of moments where you can

[carmine sapphire]

yes

[split tide]

Can does not mean all players will encounter it

Which means some players will just never learn spike pogos

Can you get through the game without spike pogos? Yes

[opaque sigil]

It means that the knowledge is within reach of the player, and you don't even need to test spikes to have that idea

[split tide]

I’d still like it to be explicit

[opaque sigil]

If you don't even consider the possibility that is in part a lack of imagination

At that point you know that you can use the ability to bounce off things, including things that are harmful (enemies)

[split tide]

Are you expecting players to throw themselves into hazards willy nilly?

You can’t bounce on thorns either

[opaque sigil]

No, I'm expecting them to think

Especially since there are instances like that crossroads grub where the game is clearly telling you that you can pogo

[split tide]

This is more thinking than pretty much any other thing in the game

With wings and shade dash there are very obvious visual cues and tutorials

[opaque sigil]

Not for the recharge

[split tide]

With spike pogos you need to explicitly consider the idea of pogoing on a background hazard

[opaque sigil]

Not a complex idea

Especially when you can pogo off most background objects

[split tide]

For the grub crossroads in particular I thought I needed more movement abilities, so I just left it for later

[glass elk]

wait isn't pogo required for the mushroom over acid part of the fungal wastes

[split tide]

It’s not a hazard

[opaque sigil]

You don't have to go through that area

[opaque sigil]

Same scenario

[split tide]

My point was that the grub crossroads was not obvious to me

[glass elk]

i thought that you would need to to get to claw

[opaque sigil]

Player has to figure out how to use their ability in a given situation

[split tide]

Now, maybe I’m just a dumb idiot (which is a true statement)

But I never thought about pogoing off spikes

[opaque sigil]

You don't, it's an optional entrance to QG (I think?)

idr exactly where it was, pretty sure it has spore shroom and an entrance to qg

[tough rune]

help what is the next boss after grim in p3

[jaunty remnant]

I would say the mushroom trampolines in fungal is the tutorial for pogoing but its not like the game is going to stop you from down slashing with your nail until then

[glass elk]

im pretty sure every path through fungal wastes requires bouncing off of the mushrooms source: hallownest.net

[serene chasm]

Players will miss really obvious stuff sometimes. Listening to the commentary in valve games is filled with anecdotes of playtesters missing obvious cues and mechanics.

[dense cove]

galien i think??

[tough rune]

ok

[split tide]

In any case I’m only concerned about spike pogos specifically

[cerulean sable]

late but this is my pogo tutorial rendition

[opaque sigil]

Even if you never have the thought to use your established ability in this scenario it's entirely plausible that you'll stumble across it just by messing around. If you miss a jump and fall into spikes but idly swing the nail down, that'll also work

[split tide]

I dunno, my brain tends to turn off and get ready for a respawn once I’m falling into a spike pit

[opaque sigil]

You don't need brain on

[glass elk]

just looked at hallownest.net and im like 90% sure every path to mantis claw requires at least encountering the bouncy mushrooms

[split tide]

Anyways do we have actual stats on who got the spike pogo idea and who didn’t

[opaque sigil]

You don't have to use them, but you do encounter them

[split tide]

Might be worth a quick survey or something

[serene chasm]

Ill make a strawpoll and drop it in hk disc

[carmine sapphire]

nice hornet face

[tardy raft]

there's a grub in Forgotten Crossroads that needs pogo to get before claw

[split tide]

Alternatively you end up leaving it for later

[serene chasm]

Thats what I ended up doing.

[opaque sigil]

That's like not using dash to get through places and waiting for Monarch Wings instead

[split tide]

Dash is a core ability though

[opaque sigil]

So is pogo

Pogo is more integral actually, since you start with it

[split tide]

The game makes it extremely obvious that dash exists

[wheat sail]

"hold up + down" bruh that will be uncomfortable

[opaque sigil]

And it makes it obvious that pogo exists

[glass elk]

hey guys this is kinda off topic since this is #sk-discussion and not #hk-discussion

[split tide]

Not obvious for spike pogos

[opaque sigil]

Obvious enough

[shy kiln]

It is meant to teach that you can pogo, even the other grub in Crossroads with a lot of spikes and all

[split tide]

I’m not discussing pogos in general

[cerulean sable]

we stopped caring about off topic discussion around 14 months ago

[split tide]

Just spikes, to make things clear

[opaque sigil]

spike pogos are always optional anyways so what's your point

[shy kiln]

White Palace

[wheat sail]

the point is this ratio

[opaque sigil]

WP makes it abundantly clear what you have to do

[split tide]

my point is that spike pogos may not be obvious to most players

[opaque sigil]

By the time you get to WP you know how to pogo

[split tide]

it's a minor issue anyways because you never have to pogo on spikes, even in WP

[shy kiln]

I was saying that Spike Pogo isn’t optional there

[glass elk]

make the tutorial for the pogos a spike pit and that will basically imply everything else

[split tide]

the only place you need to explicitly spike pogo is during PoP

[opaque sigil]

If you know how to pogo and you look at the saws and don't think about pogoing then idk what to say

You don't need a tutorial for pogos at all

[split tide]

I guess I'm just a massive moron then

[opaque sigil]

And letting players find it on their own is more meaningful tenfold than telling them about it

[split tide]

like I'm not going to exclude that as a possibility

[cerulean sable]

counter ratio

[shy kiln]

No in WP, before you enter in the room with the 3rd bench, there is transition where if you don’t pogo, you get hit by spikes
Does anyone have the map of WP?

[digital mural]

Silk song will have the black castle instead of white palace

[split tide]

can't you double jump or something for that?

[opaque sigil]

Think monarch wings can also do it

[split tide]

like is that just before the entrance to PoP

[opaque sigil]

Or just moving onto that little ledge to wait for the spikes to open again

But pogo is very intuitive there, idk why somebody wouldn't do it

[olive bobcat]

You mean the fall full of spikes?

[split tide]

the spike fall is just timing right

[shy kiln]

No, the previous room that looks like that, but spikes are all over the floor

[olive bobcat]

iirc there's a map of White Palace online (full rooms), try finding your example there

[shy kiln]

I need to see the map to point out which room to be exact

Does anyone have it?

Or is it there in wiki?

!wiki White Palace

[mental swallow]

https://hollowknight.fandom.com/wiki/White_Palace

[olive bobcat]

Look up "detailed hollow knight map" or something

I think the one with all the markers on it has it

[split tide]

I'm pretty sure it's possible to complete WP without pogoing on a single saw

Since from my memory that was what I did

also just found a vid on that

[shy kiln]

This one

[split tide]

since there should always be a platform or wall nearby for you

[cerulean sable]

most of the pogoing i remember that was required was in PoP

[split tide]

yeah PoP is the only part where you're forced to pogo

ngl I never thought about pogoing buzzsaws before PoP

[opaque sigil]

how

[split tide]

scary

[opaque sigil]

So are plenty of other things you can bounce on

[shy kiln]

In this room, the floor is just spikes
And IIRC (maybe Incorrectly) the double jump is extremely precise

[split tide]

in any case it's never explicitly required in WP

[serene chasm]

Fist section of kings pass should be replaced with the last section of pop. That will teach players

[split tide]

true

[shy kiln]

You need abilities though
At least give me Dash and claw

[split tide]

also buzzsaws are just super scary with their whirry noise

[olive bobcat]

You've got the wrong room

[cunning geode]

nice terraria screenshot

[split tide]

are we allowed to post videos?

[shy kiln]

Huh?
But I do remember that there is room like that
I will look into it, and if I am wrong, I shall apologise

[cunning geode]

yeah if its relevant go ahead

[split tide]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1o1ExLo3Ug

WP no pogo, which looks like my first run

[cerulean sable]

i hate the "wait for spike, stand on pixel perfect spot, wait for next spot" sections

i want SPEED

i want hornet to keep dashing through 10000 billion spikes after flinging herself at mach 1

non of this waiting game bs

[cunning geode]

doom time doom time

run run run

[cerulean sable]

mood

[rotund aurora]

What’re we gonna do if Leth doesn’t deconfirm E3?

[serene chasm]

Silk and Song. Until it is done

[cunning geode]

thats da wrong doom gaem you sicko

[rotund aurora]

Or are they gonna make me cry again lmao

[serene chasm]

why you gotta be so mean, wombat?

[cunning geode]

unf

[cerulean sable]

then cry about it

[serene chasm]

I will

[wheat sail]

I want my silksong merch and my hornet skirt for my femboy costume

[torpid ivy]

What

[wheat sail]

I want silksong merch

[cunning geode]

godspeed

[nimble knot]

Hey I was watching demo gameplay of silksong from E3 event and I want to open a discussion about hornet speaking while we are playing as she. Im maybe wrong but her talking with npc is a bit of "mood killer", because when I played Hollow Knight I was unconsciously answering to the monolog npc was making and now this wouldn't be an option. What do you guys think?

[cunning geode]

hmm, its down to preference i suppose

[ocean mulch]

How do you answer a monologue

[opal geyser]

Isn’t that technically talking to yourself?

[rotund aurora]

I mean idk why one would act like the knight is speaking

[coarse leaf]

i'm not too annoyed by that, a huge amount of games have their character shouting as they do stuff
tho i honestly think they should have an option to disable it, a lot of players might complain

[serene chasm]

I'm sure it's one of those things that seems odd now but you'll get use to really quickly when the game comes out

[coarse leaf]

agreed

[cunning geode]

like the shaw sound effect

[coarse leaf]

they need to remove shaw and i am 100% fine 👍

[serene chasm]

The shawnd effects

[coarse leaf]

i wonder how parkour will be in the game

[serene chasm]

Hardcore

[coarse leaf]

are we finally gonna get a game that makes you feEl like spiderman?

[cunning geode]

spiderwoman

[coarse leaf]

spiderwoman

[shy kiln]

WeaverWoman

[cerulean sable]

implement automatic ledge vaulting when sprinting towards knee level elevation

[coarse leaf]

hmm

[fiery coral]

that'd be fine really

[split tide]

I dunno about others, but those sort of shouts/character vocalisations blend into the background very fast for me

[coarse leaf]

imagine white palace but you've to swing through the saws, and with extreme accuracy

[split tide]

Like I barely noticed the voicelines in starcraft after a bit

[crisp drift]

no

[coarse leaf]

like if you just stop swinging too early you end up getting launched towards a saw

[crisp drift]

as someone with next to zero platforming capability

[shy kiln]

Is the swinging like it is in Avengers Game?

[coarse leaf]

idk i never played that, but it's definitely like it is in the silksog game
i honestly would like it if it has realistic physics for swinging

instead of just instantly stopping when you release the button, there could be a thrust towards the direction depending on how you've been doing it

[shy kiln]

In that game, the swinging is bad

[coarse leaf]

i can imagine dunkey calling hk bad and silksong good because of silksong having an alternative to grappling hook

[shy kiln]

VideoGameDunkey?

[coarse leaf]

yes

[shy kiln]

Hmmm

[coarse leaf]

i want to see youtubers suffer at doing boss refights again

dunkey did lost kin with like 6-7 masks and basically no spells

because he ended up getting dream nail before it

[rotund aurora]

Lost Kin is easy

[cunning geode]

No it’s not, you practiced it.

[rotund aurora]

Eh.

Was easiest of all the dream bosses.

[cunning geode]

because you practiced it

[wheat sail]

if you learn the pattern its ez

[cunning geode]

Yeah

[rotund aurora]

No, that was my opinion on my first playthrough.

Now maybe failed champ is easier but it’s nearly the same

[shy kiln]

They are the hardest for me, after GPZ and NKG

[rotund aurora]

Soul Tyrant is still annoying tho

Yeah I’ve still actually to do those

[shy kiln]

GPZ is very slightly harder than LK for me

[rotund aurora]

Trying to beat Pure Vessel rn

[shy kiln]

Once you beat it, you won’t have too bad of a time fighting NKG or GPZ

[rotund aurora]

Huh

Maybe.

I haven’t tried GPZ in a while… I think I’m gonna do it after I beat P5 cause I don’t want to fight them in the pantheons

[lone lichen]

i always found soul tyrant absolutely free, failed champ was the hardest to learn but i'd say he's on about the same level as kin if you know both fights

[rotund aurora]

And I’m prolly gonna banish through troop cause I’m hearing good things about carefree.

[rotund aurora]

Huh. Soul Tyrant was prolly hardest for me

I think it still is

[lone lichen]

yeah different people struggle with different bosses

absrad/pv tend to be the top 2 but the rest of a top 10 would probably vary wildly

[rotund aurora]

Forgetting NKG

[lone lichen]

i'm not sure i'd put nkg third but he's top 10 for sure

[rotund aurora]

I mean I’m still astounded people struggle with Hive Knight

[lone lichen]

simply because i've never lost to him since my first win

[shy kiln]

For me, the 2 hardest bosses are Abs Rad and Rad respectively

[rotund aurora]

And even Hollow Knight

Radiance was pretty hard first time round

[lone lichen]

regular rad is probably the back half of top 10 for me

[rotund aurora]

Hollow Knight is prolly one of the easiest bosses in the game for me

[lone lichen]

the big revelation for me was how much easier absrad gets if you don't force things in the platform phase

[reef scarab]

I got so used to PV timing that HK messes me up

[rotund aurora]

Easier than enraged guardian…easier than mawlek… easier than god tamer and oblobbles

[lone lichen]

i went back and did dream no more after my first p5 clear

[rotund aurora]

DNM was my first ending I think

[lone lichen]

when you have pv/absrad consistently it feels alien because they're so slow

[rotund aurora]

Ye

[lone lichen]

and thk stops being a proper fight halfway through

[rotund aurora]

I mean kinda

I just abuse shade cloak during the fight

[shy kiln]

THK is my favourite boss fight

And no, not just because of the OST

[rotund aurora]

Honestly don’t really like the ost that much

[lone lichen]

the thing that can throw off new players for bosses like thk or watchers is that they aren't necessarily working with a full kit

never really tried the speedrun achievements but i've seen the kit the nmg route goes into watchers with

[rotund aurora]

I mean I’ve never tried it but I could prolly beat watcher knights and hk under a minute

With full kit ofc

But I’d prolly need fury

[lone lichen]

idk exactly how fast watcher fight is with full kit, chandelier helps but there's still downtime

i could believe 45-50 seconds

thk would probably stall you out past a minute because of stabbing itself

[rotund aurora]

Ye

[pliant torrent]

silksong

please release

[wheat sail]

check the twitter omg

[cerulean sable]

what is it this time

[wheat sail]

3:39 am

[cerulean sable]

forgot the it

goddamn it

[split tide]

which twitter account

[fading tide]

is there any news I haven't checked in like 4 months D:

[young phoenix]

What do you think

[fading tide]

I already knew the answer 😔

[split tide]

if there was news this channel would've blown up

[uncut citrus]

And everyone would have been pinged in the desert that is #hk-announcements

[split tide]

unless new patch out

[uncut citrus]

yeah I meant for anything silksong related at least

[sinful flare]

New patch 1.5.2435287.423478634 Elderbug now shoots lasers from his eyes if you go past elderbug without talking to him

[cerulean sable]

Elderbug, The First Vessel

[fiery coral]

Tonight, Elderbug joins the hunt.

[proud vale]

Elderbug joins smash bros finally

[dusty nimbus]

We hunt Elderbug or does Elderbug hunt with us?

[fiery coral]

He hunts us

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/781178762099687467/795141040582950972/FB_IMG_1605272702134.jpg relevant

Don't know who made this but it's gold

[burnt topaz]

Long elderbug arm scares me

[cerulean sable]

The wait...
The sequel...
Were long...

[sinful flare]

Is long

[rancid vector]

IT'S COMING OUT ONE DAY OMG

one day in the future

(at some point down the line...)

https://www.thegamer.com/hollow-knight-silksong-release-date/
hmmm that's cool

possible GOG leak

[split tide]

GOG displays current year, that’s all

[coarse leaf]

GOG is nostradamus

[rancid vector]

yeah. that's a big deal, we had no indication about whether or not it was coming out this year. it could have been 2023

[split tide]

Last year it displayed 2021, and year before that 2020

[drowsy isle]

TheGamer is bs

[split tide]

It’s not a big deal

[rancid vector]

oh really @split tide damn.

[split tide]

Yep alas that’s just it

[sinful flare]

I wouldn't believe a word in a silksong article i found on the internet by random

[rancid vector]

well that's a bummer

[drowsy isle]

Never forget

[rancid vector]

it's thegamer.com i mean cmon (lol)

[split tide]

Most of these articles are quite untrustworthy

[rancid vector]

super legit.

[coarse leaf]

anyways something is coming in February 😔

[split tide]

patch 1.5.8.738473

[rancid vector]

lol this website

[small goblet]

oh no i have to walk for 5 minutes to nearest stag station

[split tide]

This website reads like a middle school student trying to fill their word count quota

[surreal mortar]

Lol someone doesn’t know what a Metroidvania is

[cursive crescent]

but that is what makes a metroidvania

[cerulean sable]

big tip

[rancid vector]

isn't it a game that is kinda like metroid but also like castlevania?

[cerulean sable]

majority of these silksong articles are pure sensationalist garbage

and that fact that people are still giving it attention is why theyll keep making it because the know how easy it is to milk the fandom for clicks

[digital mural]

Nothing is

[rancid vector]

yeah.. sad to learn this. i'll just wait for an official team cherry announcement and/or game expo release date announcement

[tawdry valley]

Metroidvanias/metroidvania elements are defined by backtracking using/possessing previously earned abilities to progress into areas otherwise impossible to progress to.

[coarse leaf]

yes because there was no news on Christmas

[cerulean sable]

that would be the wisest thing to do for the next few months

[surreal mortar]

Maybe there hasn’t been any news because Team Cherry hates gaming journalism and wants to see them suffer

[tawdry valley]

There is literally no Silksong article out of the 8000 that have been written that is worth your fucking time.

[rancid vector]

is that kinda what i described? that also sounds more like a straight up metroid, dunno why they include the vania part

[rancid vector]

yeah i think the point's been made

[cursive crescent]

the vania part comes from castlevania

[tawdry valley]

Because nonlinear exploration based progression existed most prominently in both of those games.

[tawdry valley]

They are aware. They are asking what made castlevania creditable to the genre.

I don’t know which castlevania, but iirc one of them introduced and utilized that whole nonlinear progression aspect, and then every other (castlevania) game after it did too

Understand that doom, duke nukem, Zelda and tomb raider were the types of games you could expect around that time.

Now nearly every game that allows you to return to old areas freely lets you unlock old shit with shit you found later

[rancid vector]

i never really played castlevania much.. i dont remember the sega genesis one having backtracking (i played that one a lot when i was like.. 8?). must have been something introduced in symphony of the night

[tawdry valley]

Symphony of the night would be the castlevania installment I was referring to, yeah.

TLDR: nonlinear progression through player upgrades wasn’t introduced until Metroid and castlevania showed up

[signal crag]

I’m ready for another year of silence anyway, i’m almost getting used to it

[tawdry valley]

Game will release when it exists

[thorn grotto]

don't trust articles from The Gamer

They're even less credible than NVDIA

[small goblet]

game will release on wx.yz.20ab

[glass vigil]

Calling it journalism might be a bit of a stretch

[fossil cedar]

silksong drops tomorrow

[cursive crescent]

It will drop on 13 Messidor of the revolutionary calendar

[modest night]

lmao they're as desperate as you

[fiery coral]

no one tell Escapist about Elden Ring 🤫

[cerulean sable]

good i hate journralists

[brittle garnet]

We did it boys

Google no longer shows February 2022 as Silksong's release date!

[civic timber]

[near egret]

ur pfp makes everything u send look like sarcasm

[civic timber]

you only got it now

[near egret]

yes...i mean I've never seen u before, so

[chrome wave]

What was the leaked date from nVidia again

[rich fractal]

1/2/2022

[chrome wave]

Seems pretty unlikely

[proud vale]

“Remember Silksong?” Ouch

[spare silo]

2 years. and still waiting T_T

[trail void]

Whats with the clown makeups whenever we talk about Silksong though?

[modest night]

Hey what are you guys gonna do for the 3rd silksong reveal trailer anniversary

[brittle garnet]

I will go about my day normally

[spare silo]

wait 3rd? I thought there was gonna be a 4th already?
Because there have been 3 directs already right?

[civic timber]

play silksong

[tawdry valley]

People turn their hopes into expectations and type stuff like this:

This is referred to as a clown.

[spare silo]

ngl I'm just excited for the combat and dialogue options

[modest night]

No its almost been 3 years since the trailer dropped

[fossil cedar]

the combat in silksong looks so good

[hushed iron]

Oh my god MOVEMENT

[fossil cedar]

it looks like so much fun

everything in the trailer looks so good like i need to play this game soon or ill die

[small sun]

So back again after awhile to see if SS has been anouced?

[split tide]

no

does it look like any news has been dropped

[small goblet]

lol imagine that

[small sun]

[small goblet]

that's how ss works

you'll most likely get @'ed when ss is announced if you don't have this server muted

[uncut citrus]

||based||

[small goblet]

maybe there hasn't been any news because team cherry hates ||us ||

[cerulean sable]

death to those who defy silksong

[sinful flare]

Play dst if i ever get the opportunity to play with people

[coarse leaf]

maybe there has been no news on Christmas because they have news to give in February 👁

[coarse leaf]

pray

[radiant wraith]

I don't know why you talk about February so much

[sinful flare]

It's the month after January

[radiant wraith]

Do you believe the leaks or is it something else that you think makes February special?

[sinful flare]

On February I will be alive

Even though that was a question for pauxgor I don't believe in the leaks

[radiant wraith]

Mmm alright

[cerulean tree]

wtf is silksong

[lost coyote]

guys what is silksong I forgor

[radiant wraith]

An album by Christopher Larkin

[split tide]

old game

[lost coyote]

thank you ian

[cerulean tree]

i have no idea who that is

[wooden sorrel]

Where Silk

[split tide]

prequel to hungry knight

[cerulean tree]

ahhhhh okay now i remember

[iron spear]

thoughts?