sk-discussion

[opaque sigil]

What that database is is beyond immaterial

[coarse leaf]

that could have been the case if it werent for the actraiser remake

which they would not have just "predicted"

[opaque sigil]

Again immaterial anyways

[wispy burrow]

the devs get support for optimization and nvidia gets the knowledge that games will work extremely well on their chipset being marketed to videogamers

and something they can stream

[opaque sigil]

The nature of the database does not change that the date is nonsensical

[serene chasm]

Silksong is a 2d indie game. TC has no reason to talk to Nvidia about optimization

[opaque sigil]

And the precedent that this logic is demonstrably flawed

[wispy burrow]

the time period really isn't though

have you considered that the changing of credivle dates was not that they were wrong but that TC keeps pushing it back because they want more and more content, cuz that is the point

[opaque sigil]

They could have continued pushing it back

For all we know that Feb 1 date is very old

[wispy burrow]

optimization is very important, and hollow knight proved that not just for PC but working for a switch release generally helped the PC version be optimized as well

[wispy burrow]

sure but that still gives us info

[opaque sigil]

Not more than the June 2020 date did

[serene chasm]

Yes. They do that internally. Not working with a graphics card company

[opaque sigil]

Even if that date came from TC (baseless in its entirety) it means nothing

[wispy burrow]

i dont think you are getting what i mean. they arent literally getting nvidia employees to help lol, there's other things in general

[small linden]

Hello everyone, sorry for my interruption, I don't speak English ok.
the fact is that I was going to play hollow knight and when I started the game, in the main menu it said hollow knight silknever
I do not know if it is something normal or has to do with the debug mode that the image had installed here
It is not edited and sorry for the quality

[opaque sigil]

I get what you mean it just isn't meaningful support for the date's validity

[worldly dune]

modded

[coarse leaf]

if it came from tc, it would mean alot? wdym?

[opaque sigil]

The June 2020 date also came from TC

[worldly dune]

its probably from debugmod but idk y it would do that

[wispy burrow]

idk why you're fighting this date so hard

you have no real evidence that this is not a good idea of something, and frankly we just have to wait with any date to see if it is true anyways. this is a very good estimate

[opaque sigil]

Burden of proof

[coarse leaf]

that was accidental on steams part though, it wouldnt be accidental if tc sent a date themselves

[opaque sigil]

nvidia leak was accidental too

[wispy burrow]

the proof is that TC at least had no issues with the date to change it considering they can see this internal date, even if they did not make it

and it could make a lot of sense to be in spring 2022

[opaque sigil]

You wouldn't be constantly updating the placeholder date in every database

That would be a waste of time

[wispy burrow]

your counter evidence is a leak before has been wrong so nothing is for certain

yes

that's why leaks are exciting to talk about

[opaque sigil]

They're also inane as hell

There's nothing to say of any substance

[wispy burrow]

the big waste of time is trying to disprove the most likely true info right now in return for still having to wait with no clue otherwise anyways

[tawdry valley]

-Team cherry has a development process in which they do not have a date themselves.
-This is one of many placeholder release date “leaks”, none of which have come to fruition.
-Nintendo, a company more publicly commutative with TC, posted a “coming 2020” games poster with Silksong in it. It is now late 2021.

[opaque sigil]

The waste of time is obsessing over release date

[coarse leaf]

different situation, the date in steam was updated accidentally, in this case the leak of a date was accidental

[opaque sigil]

Leth said TC put the 2020 date in themselves

[coarse leaf]

oh...

[opaque sigil]

In both cases a date never meant to be public was leaked

[small linden]

Thank you very much, I thought it would be important, it made me strange

[coarse leaf]

i mean, my point still stands though, they updated the date accidentally, there was no leak in that scenario

[wispy burrow]

nintendo putting that info doesn't really mean much tbh, they also know that Hollow Knight is still within top 30 of the best selling games on the eShop every time you can check, and it's a money maker

also, nobody here is arguing there is a concrete date. im arguing an entire season

[serene chasm]

https://www.teamcherry.com.au/
If the date is not from here, dont read into it

[opaque sigil]

It was functionally the same

At best

The nvidia leak is less credible than the steam placeholder because it may not have even come from TC

[tawdry valley]

Yes but nvidias dusty placeholder date spreadsheet is more indicative of a marketing period than Nintendo’s publicly announced “coming soon next year” marketing product

[coarse leaf]

if gfn had an "accidental" date it would have been taken down immediately, the date had been there up till someone got access to it

[opaque sigil]

Who cares. A date that was intended to be private is a date that was intended to be private, how it got out does not matter

[wispy burrow]

yes, nintendo leads on customers that a game is coming sooner than it is all the time lol

that is kinda their marketing team's job when they don't have a marketable time period

[tawdry valley]

If team cherry had something vague in mind, they would distribute it. If they did not, they would give a random placeholders if any placeholder at all

[coarse leaf]

i'd agree normally, but with the release of certain titles, it seems more likely than it was originally

[opaque sigil]

Those add zero credibility to that date

[tawdry valley]

Really? Nintendo wanted people to think the game was coming out early and that’s why they were wrong? Not because they also don’t know?

[wispy burrow]

those are functionally the same for them and does not change anything

[opaque sigil]

Nintendo doesn't know, nvidia doesn't know, TC doesn't know

[coarse leaf]

they add credibility to gfn having real info, which adds credibility to having info on tc

[serene chasm]

The nintendo stuff was all internal leaked docks and not meant to be marketing material

[opaque sigil]

Fuck no. Knowing that a given game exists does not mean a given unrelated date is right

[tawdry valley]

It does. It means Nvidia doesn’t have a camera over team cherrys shoulder looking at development

[serene chasm]

🛠️ ?

[wispy burrow]

so?????

I'm not buying that Nvidia made it up lmfao

[opaque sigil]

The June 2020 date sat there for a year and a half too, it's not like TC's updating their placeholders

[tawdry valley]

So why would they have an idea of what date, or “”season”” it would come out

[wispy burrow]

Because I believe these were made by

the developers

[opaque sigil]

Even if TC contributed the date to the database it wouldn't be reliable

[coarse leaf]

its the same concept, they have info that hasnt been made public

[tawdry valley]

They don’t. They just don’t put “0” in the datebook.

[tawdry valley]

Cool, I can tell you why it’s not

[wispy burrow]

Ok tell me why it is not without theorizing

[opaque sigil]

Knowing one thing that isn't public doesn't mean they know the release date which even TC wouldn't know

You must see that

[wispy burrow]

anywho, i dont think this convo is very healthy

[opaque sigil]

Steam databases had things that weren't public, too

[coarse leaf]

idk about tc not knowing, 5 months in advance isnt a huge step, plenty of games announce with larger windows than that

[opaque sigil]

Five months in advance is a huge step considering TC's approach to things

And it was probably more

[wispy burrow]

most of us do not have an agreement on what we could call "the facts", so there isn't many healthy arguments we can make without hitting the barrier of "we do not agree on the basic parts"

[opaque sigil]

We only saw the date in September, it was there for an unknown amount of time prior

[wispy burrow]

this is theorizing

[opaque sigil]

No it isn't it's knowledge of TC's process

[tawdry valley]

It is a summary of what Tc has stated about their development process

[wispy burrow]

yes but thinking this disproves much of anything or proves much of anything in this discussion is theorizing

[turbid kite]

this just proves that TC will be developing SS forever until money runs out

[tawdry valley]

It’s literally their stated reason for why they don’t want to say a definite

[coarse leaf]

its not though, 5 months away, they're likely only testing and debugging, i can't imagine they have no idea at the rate they'd take to finish

[tawdry valley]

It means team cherry won’t present anything of which they won’t commit to.

[opaque sigil]

It was more than five months

[tawdry valley]

Don’t you get it? Team cherry cannot produce a definitive date they dont think is definitive

[turbid kite]

why talk about when SS is coming out when you can analyze the trailer again and make a sick cover of the song previews with various noninstruments

[opaque sigil]

We didn't happen to see it the moment after TC hypothetically entered it into the database

[wispy burrow]

okay but i was saying an entire season

[tawdry valley]

Compound that with the fact they wouldn’t share it with nvidia

[wispy burrow]

not a concrete date, a week, or even a month

[coarse leaf]

it was an internal date. they werent making an announcement

[tawdry valley]

Same applies, uncommitted for the sake of remaining in constrained

[wispy burrow]

an internal date isnt a big commitment

"we should maybe be done by this time" and they move on

[tawdry valley]

YES

[opaque sigil]

it also isn't substantial in terms of indicating release timing

[compact laurel]

Agreed

[opaque sigil]

It isn't substantial because it isn't a commitment

[coarse leaf]

id say it'd give a 2 month margin at the least

[opaque sigil]

June 2020 was an internal date

[wispy burrow]

see ddx this is where your thing falls apart

your idea of "not a big commitment" means that apparently a date has no actual info in it at all which

no

that means we have a time period in which they thought they could be done, which is an idea of where they are

[compact laurel]

Hopefully soon enough that it's within a year of the speculative date

[opaque sigil]

By y'alls logic SS should've been out for over a year

[tawdry valley]

That time period has been placed at 4 different intervals over the course of 3 years, 3 of which have passed

[coarse leaf]

june 2020 was an error on TC's part, this is GFN's error

[opaque sigil]

So

It doesn't matter who made the mistake

And no, 2020 was an error on steam's part, not TC's

[turbid kite]

i don't think there's much point in trying to guess when it'll release, it doesn't seem to actually bring anyone relief/joy/anything

[wispy burrow]

they cannot just delay it internally forever especially since bigger publishers are waiting now

the game will come out within the next year, guaranteed

and your idea of how much money they have? while they had quite a bit, they aren't on an infinite budget either and it's been iirc 4+ years since internal development began

[tawdry valley]

Buddy, it’s not coming out within 2 months of February because Nvidia employee #016836 put the first day of the month 6 months away as the potential unlisted date

[opaque sigil]

That is not guaranteed lmao

[coarse leaf]

i thought u said it was tc earlier?

[compact laurel]

It means that either TC or GFN' goal was changed

[wispy burrow]

i dont think anyone at nvidia made the date

buddy

[opaque sigil]

TC created the date and put it in Steam's database, who fumbled and showed it

[tribal merlin]

I don't count SS development from a time they don't have their main coder

[opaque sigil]

Theoretically by your own logic geforce now is the same

[tawdry valley]

All it means is they’re gonna develop until they’re satisfied and comfortable before considering dates

[opaque sigil]

This exact same reasoning would have "guaranteed" a 2020 release

[wispy burrow]

no, because 2020 was when they really didn't have as much pressure from the industry or any monetary concerns at all. also, it was kiinda early in dev. mid dev likely

[opaque sigil]

Your same logic would still apply

[tawdry valley]

Silksong has been in development since and during godmaster release

[wispy burrow]

no, because i dont think game development magically extends forever.

[tawdry valley]

Guess that means it’s guaranteed to come out this Christmas season

[tribal merlin]

it also doesn't magically stops before it's done

[opaque sigil]

that isn't even an argument it's just making an excuse for your logic failing in that instance

[coarse leaf]

yh, fair enough

[wispy burrow]

not really, your logic means that ever thinking of a leaked date is dumb and makes no sense

so why are you in the convo

[tawdry valley]

“It will rain one day”

“It hasn’t rained yesterday or today, so it’s surely nearly guaranteed to rain tomorrow”

[opaque sigil]

Treating it as a guarantee or anything solid is dumb and makes no sense

the game will come out within the next year, guaranteed
This is absurd

Completely ridiculous

[tribal merlin]

the "leaked date" that is now set to June 30th 2021

[wispy burrow]

why does it make no sense? because people believed something that made no sense times in the past??? because people have been wrong I am now wrong???

frankly I do not see a universe where it does not come out in 2022

[coarse leaf]

Crowsworn comes out 2023, SS is supposed to come out before Crowsworn so

[opaque sigil]

Ok that doesn't change that it's possible

[wispy burrow]

yes

[opaque sigil]

Short answer: No and don't take Leth out of context like that

[prisma thicket]

It was Leth who put the 2020 release date when he created the steam page because he was required to, Mossbag's guess was that it was their initial goal

[wispy burrow]

let people speculate tammo

[shell yacht]

[gilded adder]

Even that's just a placeholder date. We don't know for sure if Crowsworn is gonna come out in 2023.

[opaque sigil]

Leth wasn't speaking in an official capacity whatsoever for either TC or MR

[coarse leaf]

Y'all take it so personal like Leth is a relative of yours or something omg calm down

[wispy burrow]

Honestly true but they'll make two Godhomes

[shell yacht]

Crowsworn just got funded 3 months ago guy

[wispy burrow]

Godhome and Satanhome

Satanhome has 5 mask of damage added for every boss and also the true true ending is locked behind it

[turbid kite]

what if we just pressure the crowsworn devs really hard so they release a subpar unfinished game, but since it was released, it'll force ss to come out too

[wispy burrow]

maybe TC should just make hungry knights 2

abandon silksong

[serene chasm]

Sounds like a plan

[turbid kite]

maybe they already did

[gilded adder]

That means SS will be forced to come out and be subpar and unfinished too

[turbid kite]

maybe they're working on a hungry knight minigame

[shell yacht]

what if we send sock to the portal in the dryer and let the sock fairy take its toll

[turbid kite]

ok jonny but ss will be out

[wispy burrow]

hungry knight minigame but it has 8 hours of content

[gilded adder]

Hungry Knight Kart

[turbid kite]

the quality of the ss does not matter. people want ss now

[wispy burrow]

Hungry Knight Godhome too btw

[turbid kite]

they can cope with 500 updates as they attempt to finish the game post-release

[shell yacht]

time to ban oranges again

[turbid kite]

no no no they should release half of ss and then the other half is split into 3 paid DLCs

[gilded adder]

No

[wispy burrow]

idk what crosworn is but it sounds like an anime swordsman game

[gilded adder]

I have a better idea

Silksong Early Access

[turbid kite]

see the way i cope w/ future game releases is by having an absolutely shit sense of time. for instance, until dawn came out 7 years ago. hades came out yesterday. i dont know anything.

early bird gets the silkworm

oh my god silk.silkwyrm.

[opaque sigil]

That works

[wispy burrow]

i think silksong will have zelda-like dungeons in it. not like, a good chunk of it, but a bit of inspiration

imo that's where the song and instrument part (like how hornet does it) comes from

[opaque sigil]

Spider wyrm more like silkwyrm

[gilded adder]

Ocarina Needolin.
I've been saying this forever. I need it.

[turbid kite]

it is minorly confusing to say zelda-like dungeons while focusing on the musical inspiration

[wispy burrow]

basically: i think silksong has a bit more zelda inspiration

[opaque sigil]

I don't think so

[turbid kite]

i still think it'd be so fucked up if there wasnt a fishing minigame

[gilded adder]

Goddammit, why did I laugh at this sentence. I hate Among Us.

[opaque sigil]

All the screenshots and footage we've seen don't suggest an ability to actually play the needolin manually

[turbid kite]

that can change in the several years before ss comes out

[wispy burrow]

because the emphasis on the main character having an instrument is a Very Zelda thing

and im sorry but people dont like to say this a lot...

a big chunk of metroidvania has stuff from zelda design
(the metroidvania castlevania games are even directly inspired by zelda)

[opaque sigil]

I mean by the time Edge came along if that was going to be a big thing they'd probably have worked it in

[turbid kite]

honestly i just think hornet should be allowed to use her needle as a harpoon. she already does that as an attack, we just need to able to properly spear and drag some lads

[gilded adder]

There is that footage of Hornet playing her needle next to the Churchkeeper

[opaque sigil]

Yeah but there's no UI indication that the player is doing anything, nor is there in Edge

[wispy burrow]

with someone else with an instrument which makes me think that there will be song playing

[gilded adder]

Also, HK was inspired by Zelda 2 so I guess that checks out.

[wispy burrow]

yes but its a trailer next you'll tell me hornet is canonically screen transitions

[shell yacht]

i see it this way
i gave them money
idc if i dint see it till 2030 it better be good

[turbid kite]

oh no it's because i thought you were talking about combat design, so i wasn't sure why you brought up musical inspiration as an example. i'm pretty sure i get where you're coming from though

[charred pulsar]

Is that from Wandersong?

[wispy burrow]

Trailers are allowed to bullshit

the mask shard thing in the beta is literally a fraction in the ui inventory

[wispy burrow]

90% sure we're gonna be playing some songs for puzzles

[gilded adder]

A MAN CAN DREAM, TAMMO.

[turbid kite]

hornet should play her needle like an erhu imo <3

[wispy burrow]

which again, very very very zelda-y thing to do

[opaque sigil]

BUT HE HAS TO WAKE UP, JONNY.

[turbid kite]

playing music for puzzles would be rad

[gilded adder]

YESSSSSSSSSSS ERHUS ARE BASED.

[serene chasm]

I do hope we can play the needolin places. More puzzles would be great

[turbid kite]

in transistor, you can stand still and hear a hummed version of each area's song. it'd be nice if ss has something like that

[opaque sigil]

☝️

[turbid kite]

jonny dream no more

[shell yacht]

reminding meof the best theory. SSong follows SSiblings and its all a dream

[opaque sigil]

I mean sealed siblings makes the most sense but that ain't why

[turbid kite]

hey i own a variant of the erhu. give me money and i'll learn how to play it so i can make sick ss covers, even though i'm pretty musically mediocre

[gilded adder]

Shoutouts to the best Erhu song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WzXIAzz1ZA&ab_channel=SarahAli

[turbid kite]

since the erhu doesn't kick in until 40 seconds in, i was briefly wondering if you knew what an erhu sounded like

[gilded adder]

I ain't no fool, Sock.

[shell yacht]

ehru? like dubstep?

[turbid kite]

lmao jonny didnt complete totf

[opaque sigil]

[turbid kite]

ah yes my favorite ancient chinese instrument
dubstep

[copper knot]

dubstep sounds like construction and i kinda hate it

[shell yacht]

ya know when the song goes erhu erhu erhu

[copper knot]

who the fuck likes to listen to sounds of drilling and hammering remixed

[turbid kite]

maybe people like dubstep because it sounds like construction. it's like how some people like the smell of gasoline

[tribal merlin]

this is a dubstep
https://thumbs.static-thomann.de/thumb/orig/pics/bdb/350809/9675009_800.jpg

[turbid kite]

it could be if you tried

[tawdry valley]

Looks like a hammer and nail

[shell yacht]

hey im not judging you furry sans

[copper knot]

i fucking hate the sound of construction

[turbid kite]

i hate the sound of lawn maintenance

[opaque sigil]

[tawdry valley]

My favorite dubstep song goes wubbalubbadubdub

[copper knot]

whoops

[turbid kite]

based on wh

[gilded adder]

I hate sound 😡

[copper knot]

based on your mom vine boom sound

[tawdry valley]

We can all agree there isn’t a worse electronic music music genre than nightcore though

[turbid kite]

bazinga

[tribal merlin]

there's this acapella dubstep kid pissing my pants just thinking about him

[turbid kite]

i think a lil bit of speeding up can make some songs a little more appealing, but pitching up the voice is a no from me

[gilded adder]

Nightcore isn't even electronic music. It's just sped up versions of pre-existing music.

[turbid kite]

hey wait does construction count as ss tool discussion

i've never witnessed tool discussion. i literally dont know what it is

[tawdry valley]

Yeah, which is why I don’t like the fact it’s called music

[serene chasm]

Ist that called beat boxing

[turbid kite]

it's still music, it's just not a genre

[opaque sigil]

How

[copper knot]

n*ghtcore

[turbid kite]

i dont come in here because watching people debate ss release dates is unrelatable to me

[gilded adder]

Dubstep sounds like construction.
Construction = Crafting
There is crafting in Silksong.
Dubstep is Silksong discussion.

[tawdry valley]

Okay but people who beatbox dubstep well are fucking cool as shit

[copper knot]

correction: *cringe

[opaque sigil]

Fair, release talk is inane

[turbid kite]

minecraft is in silksong

[tawdry valley]

There’s a mining area in SS, be careful

[tribal merlin]

dunnoh if you wanna call this beat boxing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bT-rgW8KlQ

[wispy burrow]

i love edm tho

[turbid kite]

ok but ss totally has different hornet dresses for use 😎 it's literally called pharloom

tthat's why its taking long
ari is just making a lot of cute dresses

[wispy burrow]

100% waifu

[gilded adder]

YOU CAN CUSTOMIZE HORNET'S LOOK

[turbid kite]

that's not a dress you imbecile

[opaque sigil]

I mean her current cloak is an item in the inventory but that could just be the dash item or smth in the demo

[wispy burrow]

0% void

[copper knot]

WHY DID I SAY THAT

[serene chasm]

99cents per dress

[wispy burrow]

because its true that willchappen

[turbid kite]

akivaq you're the biggest clown in this room

[copper knot]

shut up

[wispy burrow]

idk how people could simp over a bug. anywho imma go sleep with my hornet blanket /s

[gilded adder]

Dress DLC
5 bucks for a purple dress
Make it happen TC

[turbid kite]

i dont think ari would make a cloakless hornet just because he'd have to draw all her limbs, and she's literally solid black so that'd be annoying

[tawdry valley]

Okay but https://youtu.be/rwhys2UOQY8

[opaque sigil]

custom hornet mod

[turbid kite]

i want hornet to have a frilly dress, like those cute dolls

[copper knot]

mogusnet

[wispy burrow]

i think hornet is a perfect design

[gilded adder]

That's probably going to happen considering we have custom Knight mods.

[wispy burrow]

no need to change it

[opaque sigil]

very practical for fighting

[copper knot]

custom knight artist here

i may or may not make a hornet skin for silksong

[opaque sigil]

that's why I said it

[tawdry valley]

It’s literally just horns, a spike, and a skirt. Of course it’s perfect

[turbid kite]

she has a massive cloak that can get caught in shit so yes it's fine

[gilded adder]

Fair, fair.

[wispy burrow]

it already exists

[turbid kite]

skirts can be worn at the neck

what's stopping you

[wispy burrow]

er, probs not

[tawdry valley]

It would only be a cloak if it were up to her neck. We have discussed Hornet having no neck already, therefore it is a skirt

[opaque sigil]

[tawdry valley]

No, I did not read what was in her inventory, why do you ask?

[turbid kite]

skirts are not worn on the shoulders

they can only be worn on the neck or hips

[chilly nexus]

imagine if it was like little red riding hood's cloak and had a hood

[wispy burrow]

skirts are worn at the feet right

[tawdry valley]

Correct, her legs make up most of her body

[chilly nexus]

and the hood just had a dent between hornet's horns

[turbid kite]

hornet would look very strange with a hood

[wispy burrow]

aren't they those weird long and short things

[turbid kite]

i'm imagining like, a human hood instead of a shaped hood like herrah's

[copper knot]

hornet in a maid outfit

[uncut citrus]

Ikr ppls are weird... well cya I’m also gonna go to my quirrel themed bed

[opaque sigil]

Hornet crawling animation

[copper knot]

imagine making simping for a character your entire personality

[turbid kite]

yeah can't imagine that furry catboy sans

[gilded adder]

Can't wait to sit on a bench as Hornet and just sit there and listen to the ambience and the music and look at all the cool idle animations Ari made for her sitting. She already has such a neat pose.

[wispy burrow]

i honestly dont mind hornet sus shit existing

but its awkward in this chat

like, fine. hornet sus, have it. but why in this public sfw discord plz no

[copper knot]

what if i change my name to XxSansFangirlxX

[opaque sigil]

Those were actually lifted from her HK animations in Beast's Den, at least the base animation, if she dozes off it would be new

[tawdry valley]

A diagram for illustrative purposes:

[wispy burrow]

hornet is actually all leg

[turbid kite]

generally we discourage people from mentioning it because having a "ew why does this exist" conversation is just sort of pointless and can possibly escalate, yknow?

[gilded adder]

Oh, I thought Hornet sus meant like Among Us not something else

[turbid kite]

jonny trying to be w/ the times and failing 😩

[wispy burrow]

tbh i dont even mind it existing or anything, i just dont want to hear it here lol

[opaque sigil]

Her bench animation is a nice little callback to that moment

[turbid kite]

you brought it up???

[wispy burrow]

nah someone else mentioned it

[tawdry valley]

She’s standing on her hands, duh

[copper knot]

i thought we were talking about among us imposter hornet not actual sussy hornet

[turbid kite]

hornet is already suspicious because she keeps saying ominous shit

[tawdry valley]

We have seen Hornet do as such:

[turbid kite]

she's like "ooo yeah i think you can be the one to save us all" girl

[copper knot]

i swear i am 👌 this close to making hornet theme sus remix

[wispy burrow]

hornet isnt playing among us, they are playing town of salem

and ghost and hornet are mafia

[turbid kite]

ddx where's ur source you clown

[gilded adder]

Silksong's reveal trailer on TC's Youtube channel is 100k views away from 3 million!

[wispy burrow]

woahhh nice

[tawdry valley]

That would then approximately be exactly how close I am to commuting suicide

[copper knot]

she would be the vigilante that dies n3 because she shot people for no reason

[brave stone]

but but where do the extra legs come from???

[turbid kite]

her body

[opaque sigil]

There are only 4

[turbid kite]

🙄

[tawdry valley]

They are her hands

[wispy burrow]

she didn't shoot them, she just dueled them. she left behind her weapon lol

[opaque sigil]

She just like sticks her needle on her back TK style

[serene chasm]

I have a better picture of hornets body based off the edge cover someone made but Im gonna get so much flak if I post it

[brave stone]

So she is crab walking?

[tawdry valley]

I would normally illustrate Hornet only having four limbs using that one picture, but it would disprove my very undisprovable argument for her not having a torso

[turbid kite]

i could do it for you

brb

[brave stone]

I mean she does have no bones

[vivid belfry]

you have no proof of hornet's lack of bones

[copper knot]

FUCK YOU IM MAKING HORNET THEME SUS REMIX

[tawdry valley]

bring up bones in #hk-lore for a fun time

[opaque sigil]

I mean she might have bones

[wispy burrow]

i beat you to it

[tawdry valley]

Or here, seems to have summoned @vivid belfry

[brave stone]

actually it is unclear if bugs in HK have exoskeletons

[opaque sigil]

They do but some also have bones

[gilded adder]

I've said this before and I'll say it again but this is probably my favorite town they've shown off, that or the Bell Town. I just love the scale of it with the background buildings giving it a grandiose feeling and something we didn't see much of in HK. There's just so much more going on in stuff like this than in HK, I feel, which isn't a knock on HK moreso just highlighting the differences in the kingdoms.

[uncut citrus]

Tbh hornet could have 6 limbs since she’s a mix of PK with 4 and Herrah with 8 so it would be cool if she was just not using her 2 extra arms like how Grimm seems to have extra limbs in his step back animation

[vivid belfry]

bones: they are cool
evidence: gruzzers have bones and gruzzer milk is cool

[tawdry valley]

Hornet has no bones because I refuse to enjoy playing a game as a protagonist that I explicitly ordered boneless.

[copper knot]

[gilded adder]

I have no bones but I must scream.

[wispy burrow]

hollow knight game backgrounds are beautiful

[brave stone]

I mean the bugs like the Baldurs have exoskeletons but bugs like elder bug harder to say

[tawdry valley]

Yeah can’t wait to get mugged in game

[gilded adder]

That's what Grindle does if you free him.

[tawdry valley]

Only book on earth that I would actively not recommend to people

[opaque sigil]

That was your idea

[vivid belfry]

Grindlemale Grindleset

[tawdry valley]

That would honestly be so fucking funny

[serene chasm]

Rot away in prison

[gilded adder]

15 signs you are a Grindle male and is it better than Alpha!!!!??????

[tawdry valley]

How late game could you wait to free grindle. Just come back to him as a lvl 87 hero and let him try to mug you

[brave stone]

@vivid belfry You can't see any joints for her exoskeleton in this photo ergo Hornet has no bones 😛

[opaque sigil]

Anyways, I do wonder how grindle's gonna be worth your coin. He can't just give like elderbug advice, that would definitely not be worth it

[tawdry valley]

Shermale grindset

[opaque sigil]

Joint detected

[gilded adder]

Well, Elderbug mostly gave you main story hints. It seems Grindle will give you clues to valuable secrets and items that might be more worth your time to sidetrack to.

[tawdry valley]

Wrong

[brave stone]

AHHAHAH DAMN IT

[tawdry valley]

Non canon

[opaque sigil]

Fair, but they'd have to be higher quality too

[uncut citrus]

Hornet all legs theory busted

[serene chasm]

sorry

[opaque sigil]

Elderbug hints were all but useless

[gilded adder]

They added a buzzsaw so that's something I guess

[vivid belfry]

wouldn't your supposed lack of external joints just give more credence to bone theory anyway

[turbid kite]

hornet is made out of cartilage

[opaque sigil]

There's a spike tool in the trailer

[tawdry valley]

By the way, extending back into that no neck theory:

[wispy burrow]

given the silksong will never release, its lore is non-canon

[gilded adder]

Hornet is 3 Hornets in a trenchcoat

[uncut citrus]

I’m pretty sure this art was made by TC sadly

[vivid belfry]

of course we all know the truth: bones on the outside, bones on the inside, and between them? 100% pure columbian

[gilded adder]

Like, 3 real life Hornets

[vivid belfry]

coffee that is

[tawdry valley]

I know, that’s why it’s funny

[vivid belfry]

coffee is black. you know what else is black? doesn't fucking matter because hornet takes hers with cream and sugar

that's why hornet is made of wood

[tawdry valley]

Okay I JUST made the joke that could be made there

[serene chasm]

hornet likes her coffee black just like her metal

[turbid kite]

hoyl shit trees drink milk

[wispy burrow]

Hornet is made of chocolate

[turbid kite]

hiveknight but with weaponized honey

[vivid belfry]

and that's why she's affected by the silk curse: she's literally a puppet being controlled from the inside by termites

[tawdry valley]

No they make it, stupid.
How else do you think you get almond milk?

[brave stone]

https://images.app.goo.gl/f9AzefULq4eUnjdC6 Explain this then.... CLEARLY No bones 😛

[turbid kite]

you can make milk and drink it too??

[uncut citrus]

Wait if hornet drinks coffee and coffee is black does that means she drinks voidd??!?? Omg is Hornet void??!1!??

[serene chasm]

bonesong

[brave stone]

How does she bend and pluck like that

[vivid belfry]

I fail to see how this image debunks bones

[turbid kite]

all these fellas got the chunky necklace just to cover up the fact that ari cant draw necks

[vivid belfry]

hornet probably has hands

that's right I said it: hornet has hands with fucking fingers

[tawdry valley]

Blasphemy

[gilded adder]

This is how Lace takes her coffee, which is why they are rivals https://youtu.be/DJTf_ZRqgxo

[vivid belfry]

I dare you to challenge me on this

[turbid kite]

yeah hornet has hands with fingers
how else would she hold hands with her gf

[opaque sigil]

Except willoh's and the mantes', they got all the neck

[brave stone]

watch her arms in the gif the are WAY too bendy for bones

[vivid belfry]

you'll go down like a gnat in the rain, motherfucker

[tawdry valley]

They have thousands of tiny hairs like actual spiders do

[turbid kite]

thk also has some fucked up arms in their sprites so like, PK passed down the no bone genes

[tribal merlin]

have you heard about snakes?

[tawdry valley]

Each of which capable of playing a string

[mortal grove]

where

[opaque sigil]

THK has some fucked up everything

[serene chasm]

Hornet's "hands"

[turbid kite]

yeah it can be both hands AND tiny hairs. like toby maguire's spiderman

lil finigenis

[tawdry valley]

You’re gonna love hearing about snake skeletal structure

[opaque sigil]

THK's upper torso is just goo

[vivid belfry]

hornet could have hooks or she could have gotten those hand genes from PK

[turbid kite]

true

[gilded adder]

What if there was a dress in Siksong with the Spiderman color pattern? That would be neat.

[tawdry valley]

Does Pk even have hands?

[turbid kite]

tc would be sued for having spiders in their game

[tawdry valley]

I’m convinced he remained in worm form

[vivid belfry]

it's either him or WL, and I would bet on her not having arms at all

[turbid kite]

she doesnt need arms if she got roots

though i guess that would be like using your tongue to pick stuff up

i think pk would have little raccoon hands

[copper knot]

spent 10 minutes trying to get the among us soundfont to work in fl studio but i got it

[mortal grove]

does lurien have hands ?

[opaque sigil]

Maybe

[copper knot]

i am melting in heat aaaaaaaa

time to make hornet sus remix as i promised

[brave stone]

they don't have bones they have noodle arms

[gilded adder]

I remember long ago I said I would stream myself swinging around and doing parkour around Pharloom to the song Deja Vu when Silksong comes out and I intend to keep that promise.

[turbid kite]

for a moment i thought you were saying you yourself would be doing parkour irl

[opaque sigil]

Noted

[uncut citrus]

Ik the whole hornet has bone thing isn’t really serious but I just wanna point out animation is never really something you can base stuff on since unlike in real life, to give the effect stuff are exaggerated and distorted (for example in the SS trailer when hornet use the lifeblood seringue in herself she literally thrust the seringue thought her body) but those effect are just to look good when your playing the game, even if you go frame by frame it looks weird

[turbid kite]

if there were a lot of points, that would imply that PK is actually a centipede

[gilded adder]

Or Running in the 90s. That could work too.

[opaque sigil]

I will await that day

[mortal grove]

tentacles =/= hands

[gilded adder]

Songs for reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv13gl0a-FA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCiDuy4mrWU&ab_channel=PsychoDon904

I will perform multi-silk swinging!

[brave stone]

Can't play the "Silksong is a cartoon" card it has lore. You can't just wave away the fact that it looks like hornet has no bones because cartoon. She canonically has no bones 😛

[wispy burrow]

what about some other eurobeat

[gilded adder]

I would be down for that. I love Eurobeat and have listened to a bunch of it.

I'll just put a Eurobeat playlist and parkour around Pharloom.

[uncut citrus]

Bruh is there actually proofs she has no bones or is that just cause she’s a bug?

[gilded adder]

I hope Silksong has an area that just lets you free form parkour around it.

[brave stone]

Bones are not mentioned any where in Hollowknight's lines

[opaque sigil]

I mean there's only so free form you can get, you need platforms and stuff

[brave stone]

BUT we do have Bone Bottom and the forest of bones

[wispy burrow]

it looks like the running has a bit of a slippery effect

tbh as a Platformer Gamer, i found no platforming challenge in HK nearly as hard as any of the even easier bosses which saddens me

[uncut citrus]

Forest of bone is still in the hollow knight world

[brave stone]

so maybe we will get the bone lore

[wispy burrow]

white palace was like, ehhh to me

[gilded adder]

Yea, I meant like platforms and enemies but mainly just an area that loops on itself so you can just run and jump around infinitely.

[vivid belfry]

the ancient caste corpses have extremely obvious bones

also gruzzer corpses have spines

[wispy burrow]

there wasn't enough movement options in HK that aren't like build based for HK to have really interesting platforming

[brave stone]

Well it is not bones per say

[brave stone]

Not sure what they are

[wispy burrow]

oh look chozo

[opaque sigil]

🦴

[gilded adder]

It seems like Silksong will change that because even though TC said they would focus on the combat this time around Hornet still has a bunch more interesting movement options than The Knight and we saw some platforming footage during E3.

[brave stone]

Better example is the hunter

[opaque sigil]

Hunter is still alive tho, those aren't his bones they're just his shell

[wispy burrow]

i think HK had a chance to make aerial combat really fun but they fucked it up by often punishing aerial or pogo combat completely with stuff like GPZ having rando jumps

[opaque sigil]

Those aren't bones

[wispy burrow]

also, without steady body, the recoil with small platforms makes combat way less fun

[brave stone]

he must have thin skin

[gilded adder]

Aerial combat is something that Silksong will have a ton more of it seems.

[opaque sigil]

No skin only shell

[vivid belfry]

idk I've never had a problem with aerial combat in HK

[brave stone]

BUT IF IT IS ALL SHELL then it is all bone?

[opaque sigil]

bone

[uncut citrus]

In hk devote got big claw/shell that very much looks like bone

[wispy burrow]

its flawed but i dont think anyome besides me cares

[gilded adder]

🍖

[charred pulsar]

Bonesong

[opaque sigil]

tasty bone

[charred pulsar]

[brave stone]

like where does line of shell end and bone start???

[gilded adder]

Silkbone

[brave stone]

like I need to know

[uncut citrus]

Forgot about that but yeah, that’s totally bones

[vivid belfry]

ancient caste had both shell and bones because they were wackass

[brave stone]

Guzzers are just bug crewmates

[opaque sigil]

[gilded adder]

Need

Silksong

Expeditiously

[vivid belfry]

jonny
jonny
just speedrun metroid dread a bunch of times

[gilded adder]

I don't have a Switch.

[vivid belfry]

just speedrun hollow knight a bunch of times

[gilded adder]

I don't want to.

[wispy burrow]

metroid dread was my first real metroidvania and then a week later i started hk

i prefer hk but both are great

[vivid belfry]

just get back into stardew valley or something

[gilded adder]

Speaking of stuff, I should probably get off my ass and finally get the true ending for Death's Gambit. Been slacking on that.

[cunning geode]

I’m stuff

[vivid belfry]

robert downey jr is in death's gambit?

[opaque sigil]

Play Skul

[gilded adder]

I could.

I do own it.

[serene chasm]

hi Stuff

[opaque sigil]

Then why aren't you

[gilded adder]

Uhhhhh

Because

Im bad at it

[opaque sigil]

It's a roguelite you're supposed to be bad at it at first

[gilded adder]

I know.

I was joshing

[opaque sigil]

no excuse

[gilded adder]

Speaking of which, have you progressed any farther in DG, Tammo?

[brave stone]

but where's the line between bone and shell in Hollowknight? I need to know

[cunning geode]

The difference between calcium and calcium carbonate

[opaque sigil]

Not much, I got to the sniper and almost killed her

The map % was like 23 btw

[gilded adder]

I love Origa's fight. Her theme is so good.

[opaque sigil]

The sections where she jumps into the bg are kinda tedious though ngl

[serene chasm]

DG?

[gilded adder]

You can just keep rolling to avoid the shots or stand behind pillars

[opaque sigil]

Yeah I know how to avoid it it just takes a while and isn't super interesting

[gilded adder]

Idk, I liked it. Gave off true sniper feels.

[opaque sigil]

Death's Gambit

[gilded adder]

Specifically, Afterlife

[serene chasm]

ah. thanks

[turbid kite]

i remember standing behind her parents' gravestone because it took extra shots

[gilded adder]

Like a week and a month left until the 2 year anniversary of the last blogpost

[opaque sigil]

I guess. tbh I don't really see the significance of that milestone, though. Not like the blogposts were that great.

[serene chasm]

Blogpost are so 2010s. Next update will be a tiktok

[gilded adder]

It's not significant at all. You're right.
I just liking setting arbitrary milestones because it keeps my brain occupied and I like sorting things in my head. Also, it keeps me sane in my waiting process.

[opaque sigil]

Maybe edge just spoiled me but in hindsight the blogposts were pretty paltry

[gilded adder]

Edge was indeed great.

Only magazine I ever bought and ever will buy most likely.

[serene chasm]

Let's start a gaming magazine so we can interview tc

[opaque sigil]

[gilded adder]

The only question will be the release date

It's fool proof.

[serene chasm]

Fool proof

[opaque sigil]

And every subsequent TC game, of course

[tribal merlin]

just hope tc don't have that trap door in front of their desk that can drop you into a shark tank

[opaque sigil]

If TC wants to drop me into a shark tank they can

[serene chasm]

Sharks with freaking laser beams on their freaking heads

[gilded adder]

I know we discussed how the Needolin will most likely not function like an Ocarina but I think there will be some upgrade(s) tied to music because one of the taglines of the game is "Discover your song."

[turbid kite]

you can have a set song like in animal crossing

[opaque sigil]

Probably, yeah

[gilded adder]

and the your part is interesting because it implies some sort of customization and uniqueness

[opaque sigil]

At least a few song-based tools

[serene chasm]

Tom Nook?

[opaque sigil]

Well it could be like "discover your story" or smth in that the player can choose their own path through the world to an extent, as in HK

idk

[copper knot]

??????????????

[gilded adder]

True but they would just say that I feel. The fact that it's "your Song" specifically could be tied to music upgrades or exploration or both.

[uncut citrus]

Would be so cool to have like diffrent music note you can make with different effects and then you can combine multiple of them to do something different

[opaque sigil]

Yeah, considering the prominence of music it would certainly make sense to have abilities and upgrades relating to it

[gilded adder]

moosic

[vivid belfry]

I think "discover your song" could just be another way of describing the story, you know like in a bardic sorta way

[serene chasm]

Hornet is gonna start a band

[gilded adder]

That also is true

[vivid belfry]

I'm sure music will be extremely relevant to the PLOT, I'm just not sure it's gonna manifest in an entire mechanic like the dreamnail

and there will definitely be tools related to it

[uncut citrus]

They haven’t showed much about tools, quest, and silk so far, but we really don’t know anything about song and since it’s literally in the name it might play a bigger part in gameplay than even tools

[gilded adder]

I just want some sort music based gameplay, no matter how small, man.

[copper knot]

i literally learned fl studio just to make this shit

[opaque sigil]

Yeah that's not what I meant

[opaque sigil]

smack de bell, make music

[uncut citrus]

Silksong seems to be so much more complex I can’t wait to see speedruns and stuff using certain combination of tools and songs to get faster and do skips

[opaque sigil]

SS speedruns are gonna be wild Hornet's just gonna be a ball half the time and a blur the other half

[serene chasm]

Tool assisted speedrun will be great to watch

[uncut citrus]

No I literally can’t wait g I v e S I l k s o n g N o w

[gilded adder]

Also, I was thinking but the Marrow could function like Rider's Passage, couldn't it Tammo? Like, I remember them saying in Edge that you follow the path and it spits you back and is a way to travel between areas which is quite similar to Rider's Passage in DG.

[uncut citrus]

Won’t all speedrun use tools?
Ta-da tshhhh

[opaque sigil]

I kinda doubt it, I think it's just gonna be a fast travel system with a few rooms to introduce you to the bell beast

I don't think you'll navigate the tunnels because that would be a mess spacially

[gilded adder]

Hmm, but you don't actually unlock the Bell Beast when you defeat it the first time. At least, that's what Edge implies.

[opaque sigil]

Still

The bell beast could be waiting at the next stop to thank Hornet and offer her services or something

(yes bell beast is a "she")

[uncut citrus]

They gotta find a way to make lore outta the Marrow, in hk they closed the stagways to try to stop the spread of the infection but they won’t be doing that in ss so why wouldn’t you be able to get to every place you can since the beginning?

Must be difficult to make this work with the lore

[opaque sigil]

Maybe the bell beast doesn't know where all the viable entrances and exits to the marrow are, and Hornet has to summon her

[vivid belfry]

could be the entrances and exits are just gummed up with silk like the beast itself

[opaque sigil]

That also could be

[vivid belfry]

and like the songshrines

[uncut citrus]

But like, the walls are literally covered in bells so it’s not like some natural tunnel, ppl use that and there probably isn’t any dead end so why couldn’t the bell beast just follow the road and choose randomly where it splits

[opaque sigil]

The exits aren't necessarily marked

[uncut citrus]

I guess this could work

[vivid belfry]

actually I think I better like the idea of the bell beast not knowing the tunnel layout without being called there first

[uncut citrus]

You can see the difference when the entire place isn’t covered in bells and it’s not a tunnel anymore

[vivid belfry]

it makes since in contrast to the old stag who was trained to follow those tunnels

[opaque sigil]

The entrances are covered in bells

[uncut citrus]

The stag forgot tho

[uncut citrus]

I guess this could work too

[gilded adder]

Ok, yea, I just read the section in Edge that talks about The Marrow and it labels it as a "tunnel" that we loop back to after getting the Silk Spear. So it just might be a small area that serves as a boss fight arena and introduction to the fast travel later on as you said.

[uncut citrus]

We’ll see when ss comes out anyways

[opaque sigil]

This doesn't necessarily look like much of anything from the inside

[uncut citrus]

I took the exact same screen just Friday to add the flea area bruh now I probably know the deep docks map so well

[gilded adder]

Love this area 🔔

[burnt topaz]

me too, its so pretty

[opaque sigil]

Yeah it's a beautiful city, and it alone looks to be the size of dirtmouth, if not larger

And I love how distinctive the script is, even if it's just gibberish

[wispy burrow]

cant wait to see isabelle crossover in hk

[uncut citrus]

You gotta choose between the two towns you said you love, which is better? You must make the ultimate choice

[gilded adder]

You mean the writing on the houses?

[opaque sigil]

Bonebottom

[gilded adder]

Yea, it's all looks like musical notes

Very nice touch

[uncut citrus]

There some crochet as well

[gilded adder]

We don't even know what Bonebottom looks like for sure

The coral area is definitely my favorite non town area we've seen so far. It's so vibrant and unique.

[opaque sigil]

We've seen parts of it

[uncut citrus]

Oh well I’ve been on discord for way too long time for me to actually go to my quirrel themed bed cya

[proud vale]

Hey silkbuds

[opaque sigil]

Coral area and MG are my favorites thus far

[gilded adder]

My memory is betraying me. Can you remind me of those images?

[proud vale]

Barnacle area is also hype

[gilded adder]

The distant cousin to Lemm is hype

[opaque sigil]

This and one in a blogpost

[proud vale]

Lomm hype Lomm hype

[gilded adder]

Oh, true. I just feel like there's more to it than what we've seen and what meets the eye.

[proud vale]

But yeah at the moment we can assume that the screenshot is bonebottom

[opaque sigil]

Yeah it's a bigger space than that screenshot shows

This is also in the same location, judging from the bg and the tent

[proud vale]

Same floor too

[burnt topaz]

yeah, just to the very far left of it considering the lack of moss

[opaque sigil]

Also Orange, it's too early for that pfp

[gilded adder]

I wonder what secret/item Dave is protecting.

[vivid belfry]

did you mean right

[burnt topaz]

yes

[opaque sigil]

Well, I agree with the idea that that probably isn't where Dave'll be in the final game

[gilded adder]

True

[burnt topaz]

i dont know my lefts and rights

[opaque sigil]

I just don't see how you'd be able to deal with him there

[vivid belfry]

I bet Dave is getting replaced with a hanging rosary or shell shard statue

[charred pulsar]

[proud vale]

November 1st is acceptable for a pfp change, right?

[opaque sigil]

[gilded adder]

Also, I wonder what the shape of the map will be. In HK, it was more like an oval with a longer section in the middle that goes down. Judging by fact that we're climbing up then it could be shaped like a triangle or an oval again but this time there's a spire sort of shape going up in the middle.

[vivid belfry]

I think general oval shape is the best shape for a metroidvania map

[proud vale]

Could be a tornado/triangle shape yeah

[vivid belfry]

allows the widest amount of area connections

[gilded adder]

Yea, I agree with that

[opaque sigil]

SS may be a vertical oval instead of a horizontal one though

[proud vale]

It’ll probably be a 2D shape, though we can’t be sure

[gilded adder]

No, it will be 3D

3D game

3D map

[proud vale]

Taurus shaped map

[gilded adder]

I think TC making a top down Metroidvania game would be cool, sidenote.

[opaque sigil]

It will. Doors are entered on the z axis

[proud vale]

Ss map leak

[charred pulsar]

Where'd you get this leak? Uh oh

[gilded adder]

Orange knows too much

[burnt topaz]

hallownest is in the middle

[vivid belfry]

how do you make a top down metroidvania without just making it a zelda game

[proud vale]

The SS map is pretty much akin to the sting ray racing level in super Mario galaxy

[burnt topaz]

you make it about bugs

[gilded adder]

I mean, they did say Zelda 2 inspired HK to an extent and one of Will's favorite games is Zelda 2 soooooo.

[boreal cairn]

isnt the game tc is working on next top down

[opaque sigil]

No way to know

All we know is that it exists

[boreal cairn]

i thought they mentioned that somewhere

[proud vale]

Fearless fox nvidia leak

[opaque sigil]

[proud vale]

You heard it here first folks

[vivid belfry]

I would like TC to make an RPG in the vein of paper mario (but not about bugs this time because You Know)

[opaque sigil]

Never played paper mario

[proud vale]

Bro I love paper mario, that sounds be a dream come true

[vivid belfry]

I think it would fit their MO

[burnt topaz]

never played paper mario but i played the mario and luigi games
are they similar?

[vivid belfry]

big explorable worlds with lots of memorable characters and collectibles / loadout customization

[vivid belfry]

that too

[potent sun]

761 missed messages what have I done

[burnt topaz]

oh cool i love those games

[vivid belfry]

paper mario is like mario and luigi with a higher focus on dialogue and scenarios than platforming

also the combat is less fun mechanically but has more strategy elements

[gilded adder]

You talking about Bug Fables? I heard about that one. Is it good?

[vivid belfry]

idk I haven't played it but I've heard good things

[opaque sigil]

I would play a TC rpg

[high hedge]

Mario and Luigi: Bowser Commits Eating People Whole

[gilded adder]

Bypassing the system isn't a good look, my friend.

[proud vale]

Let me guess though, you don’t like the Wii version?

[gilded adder]

We have that word banned for a reason, please don't bring it up in any capacity.

[vivid belfry]

bowser commits noo-noo teletubbies

[high hedge]

I’ll stay squeaky clean officer

[vivid belfry]

wii version of what

[proud vale]

Mario and Luigi partners in time was goated but so hard for 12yr old me

[opaque sigil]

I assume they were referencing the game where bowser eats mario and luigi and they explore his guts and stuff

[proud vale]

Of super paper mario

[vivid belfry]

Bowser's Inside Story is goated

[burnt topaz]

absolutely, love it when baby mario physically assaulted luigi

[high hedge]

And the toads get turned into big ball people

[vivid belfry]

I like Super Paper Mario, I think the story makes up for the kind of basic gameplay

[gilded adder]

Isn't Thousand Year Door like considered the best one?

[vivid belfry]

as long as it's not actively annoying, I can overlook mediocre gameplay if the story is strong enough

[proud vale]

Tru gameplay is basic, but world building is sick

[high hedge]

Bowser’s Inside Story has a lot of really weird concepts in it

[proud vale]

I imagine bowsers inside story is like when you get eaten by the giant yoshi monster in partners in time

[high hedge]

Do they help Yoshi with indigestion in Partners and Time?

I remember Bowser having a lot of weird health issues

[opaque sigil]

It was a weird game yeah

[high hedge]

Fun rpg though

[proud vale]

The writers had a wacky sense of humour, like with paper Mario too

[charred pulsar]

TTYD so good

[gilded adder]

Maybe Fearless Fox is an rpg about woodland creatures

[vivid belfry]

Bowser's inside story is like meet dave the videogame but in a good way

I wish I had tiny italian antibodies that beat the fuck out of my muscles to make me move gooder

[high hedge]

Maybe you do and they’re just lazy

[opaque sigil]

Damn now I want to find that game

[high hedge]

I think Bowser spoke to them like they were his conscience at one point

I’m sure you can find the rom online

[opaque sigil]

Probably but the cartridge should be around somewhere and I still have a working 3ds

[high hedge]

Now you can gauge how much better you got at rpgs

[opaque sigil]

I don't remember like anything from when I played it the first time

It was a good while ago

I remember my brother and I struggling with things that are probably not that hard

[high hedge]

I started playing it when it released so whenever that was

[vivid belfry]

idk, mario and luigi doesn't really follow traditional RPG logic because there's no strategy involved at all

[gilded adder]

Small note but I like how when TC said over 150 new enemies, they meant over 150 new enemies like a good amount over. Usually when devs say that the final product is like 152 enemies or something like that but we know Silksong will most likely have at least 165 enemies from the blogpost.

[vivid belfry]

if you're good at the minigames, you win, and if you're bad you lose

[high hedge]

Then I took a two year break when it got difficult

[opaque sigil]

Well imo they may have just said that as in "more than HK" but without explicitly mentioning that game

[gilded adder]

True, true.

[vivid belfry]

wouldn't want people to think this is a hollow knight game

[gilded adder]

Also, I like how wild bugs don't drop money because it wouldn't make sense for them to.

[opaque sigil]

Well it would have less meaning to new audiences to compare it to HK

[opaque sigil]

Yeah, though it might make accumulating funds a bit more of a pain

[high hedge]

Just gotta know where to grind

[opaque sigil]

Well yeah but that's the thing, you would have to pick somewhere suitable

[tawdry valley]

Yeah, in the unexplored part of the videogame

[gilded adder]

I bet they increased the amount of rosary beeds and whatnot in areas so that might not be as much of an issue.

[opaque sigil]

Perhaps, but those can run out and you can end up losing money if you aren't careful

[high hedge]

Well it’s not like I know where the grind spot will be

[opaque sigil]

I'm not super worried, just a small thought

[gilded adder]

Oh, by beads I meant like literal ones you find in the world with rosaries on them, not the item.

[tawdry valley]

I mean, enemy drops have never been the main source of geo in HK, probably won’t be in SS either

[opaque sigil]

All the easier to lose

[opaque sigil]

I mean a lot of the smaller purchases were, at least in my experience

[high hedge]

Hornet gambling

[gilded adder]

We still don't know if you can retrieve rosaries when you die since iirc you lost all of them on death in the demo.

[high hedge]

Bug casino

[tawdry valley]

I’m referring to not grinding in the first place

[opaque sigil]

The demo had no real reason to have that system completed, though

[high hedge]

Ahhhh

[tawdry valley]

Only really became necessary in HK cause of the fragile charm upgrades

[vivid belfry]

I simply refuse to believe that TC believes in a rosary string economy, it just introduces so many issues

[opaque sigil]

It seems awfully inconvenient

[vivid belfry]

it would be less problematic to have no penalty for dying at all

[tawdry valley]

I though you meant, like, counterfeit rosaries or something

[vivid belfry]

hey wait a minute... these rosaries are made of HIVELING WAX

[opaque sigil]

Counterfeit rosaries where whenever you try to make a purchase with them you have a 50% chance of getting banned from a merchant for an in game hour

[tawdry valley]

Eh, games that add penalty for death encourage tentative and calculated exploration.

As opposed to “you fucked up, try again”
But yeah, all money on death sucks

[vivid belfry]

I agree, I'm saying removing that is less of a problem than having total currency loss after a single death

[opaque sigil]

It was a comparative statement

[tawdry valley]

Rob the merchant

[opaque sigil]

gimme all your tools

Put 'em in the bag

[tawdry valley]

“Give me anything you have with 6 legs”

[tawdry valley]

Wdym

[vivid belfry]

I mean it was a comparative statement
Tammo wins the million

[opaque sigil]

"No penalty > immediately losing all rosaries permanently on one death"

[tawdry valley]

But we kinda don’t, given the case with relics/beads and all that

Rosary strings looking to be craftable and all

[vivid belfry]

that's what I mean by rosary string econom y

being forced to backtrack to holy benches or towns every time you scrape up any meaningful amount of money

[opaque sigil]

Well yeah but unless the stringing benches are all over the place (like every other bench) that would still be problematic

[tawdry valley]

Ahhh

[vivid belfry]

it goes AGAINST exploration

and encourages farming in safe locations

[tawdry valley]

Well strings are found around the map and usable at benches(?)

[vivid belfry]

strings are probably usable everywhere

[opaque sigil]

It's making the strings that would only be possible at benches

[vivid belfry]

only possible at special holy benches

[high hedge]

Could be more reliant on a banking system

[tawdry valley]

I feel like I just don’t understand your point, and not that you’re wrong.
Cause if I scrape up cash and get to a shop, it’s cause I wanted to spend the cash or go to a “home base”.
Securing what’s leftover in strings feels more like a side bonus

[opaque sigil]

Grover just outlined the problems with that

[high hedge]

I may have skimmed after going to a different discord

[tawdry valley]

An (overbearing) banking system would literally set the gameplay loop to “area, bank, boss, bank, parkour, bank, ability, bank”

[vivid belfry]

basically, if you can get rosaries back after dying, it gives you much more freedom to explore without having to go back to town every time you get enough rosaries to make a string

and perhaps most importantly, literally every boss room in the fucking game is a total currency reset

if you want to fight a boss, you have to have a negligible amount of rosaries, period

[opaque sigil]

And god forbid you should stumble into one unawares

[tawdry valley]

No…? Wait why can’t we collect our dropped loot post mortem in an arena?

[opaque sigil]

That's the premise of the discussion

[high hedge]

Maybe it’s an upgrade you get later that allows you to retain beeds

[tawdry valley]

I know the cocoon doesn’t run at the player angrily like a shade but

[opaque sigil]

The hypothetical scenario where rosaries can't be recovered

[tawdry valley]

Oh this a complaining about a hypothetical

[vivid belfry]

I'm arguing against the idea that rosaries should be permanently lost on death

because a lot of people seem to think A) that's how it's going to work at launch and B) that's a good thing

[high hedge]

A lot of people think it’s good?

[tawdry valley]

Seriously? Lol

[vivid belfry]

I've seen things you wouldn't believe

[opaque sigil]

I mean some people think it might not be bad I haven't seen anybody especially thrilled about it

[tawdry valley]

I’m more concerned with the fact people watched the cocoon drop cash and thought “I wish it dropped cash”

[vivid belfry]

the argument I've seen is that the shade having money attached to it means you're forced to explore in the same direction when you die

which like... not really? You clear a path back to the last bench you were at when you get the shade and from there you can back out of the area

[tawdry valley]

Half of exploration is making shortcuts

[opaque sigil]

I mean you can have nightmare scenarios with awful return times

If you die right before opening a shortcut

[high hedge]

I definitely lost some shades in deepnest the first few times

[tawdry valley]

This happens in crossroads, greenpath, any place with a stag station, fungal wastes, Crystal peak (3 times there) queens gardens, and CoT(3 times here too)

Any area not mentioned either has a stag, or is a sub area.
Every single sub area has a shortcut in it.

[opaque sigil]

Rosary strings do offer an alternative though, which I do think is reasonable

[proud vale]

I wonder if TC have had trouble integrating and balancing the guitar hero-based rhythm combat for the full release

[tawdry valley]

I’m more worried about the lack of Quick time events so far

[opaque sigil]

Like you can have a lot of rosaries on your person that aren't subject to loss on repeated death

[tawdry valley]

Right, like relics

[vivid belfry]

after playing metroid dread I'm done dunking on quick time events

[opaque sigil]

Yeah but they go both ways

[tawdry valley]

You’re well prepared for the parry move though

[opaque sigil]

String -> rosaries and rosaries -> string

[vivid belfry]

if rosary strings being craftable are just an extra layer of safety for noob friendliness, godspeed

[tawdry valley]

“Parry Kraig or die”
-Nintendo

[vivid belfry]

I don't think they're a fitting replacement for shade currency recovery

[opaque sigil]

idk what else they could be reasonably taken to be

[tawdry valley]

Eh, anything we lose we gain back from tactical cocoon silk

[vivid belfry]

definitely incorrect

[tawdry valley]

Also the risk/reward aspect of saving the cocoon for a phase 2 and dying phase one

[vivid belfry]

I would not pay 10k geo to start a fight with full silk when I could just go beat up tik tiks

[tawdry valley]

Okay but it’s not that you’re going into a boss with 10k, it’s that you’re holding 10k geo

[opaque sigil]

But for the chance to get a free soul refill in the middle?

[vivid belfry]

still no

[tawdry valley]

Even HK discouraged walking into any new area with a purse more than 750 geo heavy, cause you could always buy something with it

[opaque sigil]

(And recover your geo )

[vivid belfry]

basically there's no reason for rosaries to not be recoverable

it doesn't actually improve any part of the system even with rosary strings being an option

[opaque sigil]

Of course it doesn't

[vivid belfry]

creating new mechanics just to fix problems that you introduced by breaking an already functional system isn't the take

[opaque sigil]

The only support for the idea is the mechanic's absence in the demo which is hardly indicative of much

[proud vale]

Imagine if sly had a random chance to pickpocket you when you chat to him

[vivid belfry]

the take is introducing mechanics to fix the problems with the original system (I think most important is making Jiji less annoying, which could be done by tying it to a consumable like rosary strings)

[opaque sigil]

Yeah that seems like a common sense QoL thing in the same vein as the rosary strings being breakable anywhere

Actually it's basically the same change

[vivid belfry]

remove Lemm vs remove Jiji

hornet should have a tool that's a Kickin Chicken sandwich with coleslaw

[opaque sigil]

[turbid kite]

keep lemm i love lemm

[opaque sigil]

No lemm you get dirty lemm

[turbid kite]

implying that normal lemm isn't already dirty

his beard drags on the floor and the entire city is wet. this man is mildew'd from head to toe

[turbid kite]

oh god

[opaque sigil]

Also that pose gets me every goddamn time

[vivid belfry]

this guy looks so fucked up
background art detail havin' ass

[turbid kite]

ok when i said "keep lemm" i meant more like "there better be another grumpy shopkeeper" so i can vicariously live out my fantasy shopkeeper dreams

[vivid belfry]

we can have a million grumpy shopkeepers

I just like that there's a way to cash out relics without having to read a memoir

[turbid kite]

consider: having to cash out relics by typing out what's written on the relic, a la Club Penguin typing practice style

[opaque sigil]

[vivid belfry]

typing of the infected

[serene chasm]

Hornet teaches typing

[coarse leaf]

[serene chasm]

Hey Tess

[coarse leaf]

Howdy!

[untold inlet]

silksong is just a typing game

[serene chasm]

Silksong is every type of game ever

[valid sable]

I play on keyboard, Silksong will be a typing game where I press xxxzxzxxxzcxx

[serene chasm]

Im sure that will come in handy in life

[vast pecan]

New ss leak ??

[heady jolt]

silksong is gonna be funny since people are gonna struggle with movement and then theres gonna be celeste players who figure out how to do tech with hornet's moveset on day 1

[vivid belfry]

celeste players when they realize hornet's airdash only goes one centimeter

[fleet temple]

unless you mean the nvidia thing, no

[heady jolt]

celeste players when dashing down diagonally doesnt gives a speed boost so you can't do an ultra

and yes i am saying this as a celeste player

[mild summit]

when do you think silksong is coming out?

[serene chasm]

In the future

[vast pecan]

I did mean That

[serene chasm]

dont read into it. Unless the date comes directly from TC, its unlikely to be true

[fleet temple]

oh yeah, that is real but it's likely a placeholder

[heady jolt]

soon ™️

[shell yacht]

NEW SS LEAK GUYS
I
Spilled my
Spaghett

[frank marten]

sad

[trim estuary]

The spaghetti has leaked

[charred shard]

excuse me but this just seems lazy

[tame mortar]

?

[charred shard]

its litteraly grimm

[pallid flare]

???

no it's trobbio

[charred shard]

its an exact copy of it

[tame mortar]

well both rad and soul master have the soul ball attack thing does that make rad soul master

[pallid flare]

he uses one of the primary colours of the colour spectrum, yeah, but he's still different

[charred shard]

look at the disign and charecter and attacks

[blazing geyser]

Ah yes, red performer = Grimm, I guess Marissa is also Grimm

[untold inlet]

Are we this far into picking apart every frame of the trailer

[pallid flare]

yeah

[charred shard]

performer red spikes and red cloth and stage like brah

[cunning geode]

if it was blue would you say he looks like grimm

[charred shard]

no

[cunning geode]

alright then

[charred shard]

no god no please no

[cunning geode]

i'll forward this to TC right away

[serene chasm]

Trobbio > Grimm

[charred shard]

i dont know what he is gonna do but im scared

[cunning geode]

...he?

who, TC?

[charred shard]

she

[serene chasm]

She?

[charred shard]

it idk what your gender is

[cunning geode]

oh, you were talking about me

he is fine

[charred shard]

im talkin bout the bat

[tame mortar]

?

[pallid flare]

what

[cunning geode]

sounded like you were referring to TC as a singular "he" which is hilarious to me

like calling Pink Floyd a guy

[shy kiln]

Finally, someone else who thinks this bug looks like Grimm

[pallid flare]

the cherry

[serene chasm]

Mr. Cherry

[cunning geode]

Mr. Crowley

🎸

[pallid flare]

be careful that the cherry doesn't get you

[olive bobcat]

What attacks

[charred shard]

the red spike attacks

[cunning geode]

thats smoke

colored smoke

[serene chasm]

I cant wait to hear Trobbio's theme. It will be interesting to see how Larkin will make a silly piece that fits into SS

[olive bobcat]

Yeah I may be blind but that's not in the trailer anywhere

[charred shard]

steam

[pallid flare]

i am really looking forward to trobbio

[olive bobcat]

You mean stage effects? Like performers use?

Like how Trobbio's... a performer?

[cunning geode]

it doesnt even hurt Hornet so its not an attack, at least in that animation

really the only similarity i can see is "red, stage"

[olive bobcat]

It's an attack on her style, Trobbio's showing off

[cunning geode]

but its like the difference between the phantom of the opera and a fucking circus clown

does that make sense?

[charred shard]

yes

[olive bobcat]

Oh nvm there they are

[pallid flare]

isnt trobbio a he

[serene chasm]

yes

[olive bobcat]

I meant Hornet's style

[pallid flare]

oooh

[subtle echo]

Trobbio is zote.

[mortal grove]

top tier fake from aluo

[charred shard]

so its grimms non HB long lost cousin

[olive bobcat]

Best one yet

[mortal grove]

i hereby dub this fake of the month

[pallid flare]

is grimm a higher being

[cunning geode]

Grimm isnt a higher being

[olive bobcat]

Only one I've made this month

[fiery coral]

🇵🇰

[olive bobcat]

Anyways this is the perfect chance to post my Grimm fake 🇵🇰

[cunning geode]

Pakistan King

[charred shard]

he is the personification of the nightmare heart making him a higher being

[olive bobcat]

Fake

[pallid flare]

is he

[cunning geode]

the marionette is not the puppetmaster

[olive bobcat]

SS poem type shit

[cunning geode]

thanks?

[cerulean sable]

saying again, grimm is a circus clown
trobbio is an eccentric, egoistic and perfectionist artist that knows how to use explosives
AKA Sander Cohen from Bioshock (insane artist that blows up performs that goes below expectations) and Dean Domino from New Vegas (egoistic artist who attempts to blow up your ass when he interrogates you on a chair he fitted with a remote explosive charge)

again, this is not a coincidence

it cant be

[cunning geode]

it can be

[cerulean sable]

it is not

[charred shard]

I......grimm is not a circus clown he is a higher being

[olive bobcat]

I like the idea that Trobbio is TC's mothman idea reused and he uses Pimpillos all the time

[cerulean sable]

having 2 egoistic artist with explosive knowledge is a coincidence

having 3 of them is a conspiracy

[cerulean sable]

yeah and theres basically a butterfly/moth concept art that uses bombs in a very old TC blog

[charred shard]

he is the personification of the nightmare heart making him a higher being

[olive bobcat]

The Nightmare Heart is a higher being, yes.

Grimm? No, not so much.

[shell yacht]

hes the body a higher being wears on tuesdays

[mortal grove]

nop

[potent plover]

are we arguing about Grimm and Trobbio again?

[fiery coral]

Grimm is a vessel for the Nightmare Heart, not its personification

[olive bobcat]

Fourth rule of the sea, never wear a dress on Tuesday

[cerulean sable]

yeah buddy i dont care if he controls the nightmare kidney or something, hes still a circus clown to me

[serene chasm]

Im going to sad if Trobbio doesnt make us kill a bunch of bugs while Waltz of the Flowers plays