sk-discussion

[cerulean sable]

like hornet would come in contact for a bit and it would proc the metal clink sound

despite not hitting her

[native ivy]

you guys ready to fight grey prince sherma in silksong?

[potent plover]

yeah cant wait man

[tired lake]

Silksoon

[native ivy]

silknever

ahhahah gottem

[cerulean sable]

Shade Soul Sherma

or

Sherma, Son of the Shades

[native ivy]

sherma is the true final boss of silksong

[cerulean sable]

yo Son of Shades sounds like a Hollow Knight DLC tho ngl

[native ivy]

hmmm maybe

and by son they meant daughter and the daughter was hornet

[cerulean sable]

i mean inrelation to the abyss or void at least

we cant take Father of the Abyss or wtv because dark souls already took it

Hornet already has Daughter of Hallownest to her

[cunning geode]

Kid of Karate

[native ivy]

boat of zote

[cerulean sable]

anything is better than Godmaster

Lord of Shades and Void Heart were really good tho

[cerulean sable]

let us talk about design

Losing geo on death

Yay or Nay for Silksong?

[fiery coral]

I'd certainly be less worried if it didn't happen, so nay from my side although I suppose for some that's part of the challenge

[opal geyser]

Anything to make the game more difficult and last longer than HK did. Yay.

[native ivy]

you can't lose geo if there is no geo

[primal oriole]

itd make bosses way more annoying

[worldly dune]

what's Pharloom's currency anyways

[primal oriole]

rosaries

[tall compass]

rosary beads and those weird crystals

[native ivy]

the rosaries can be put on strings that you keep if you die so you probably won't have to worry about losing them as much as geo in hollow knight

[cerulean sable]

honestly on the go rosary rip is really good

like you dont have to backtrack to lemm and risk getting yeeted

[native ivy]

silksong will confirm that hornet is void and she forgot she is void

[opaque sigil]

Well, you lose rosaries that aren't strung

[formal karma]

Which seems easy to counter even if it's a little tedious

Which would be the tradeoff I guess

[opaque sigil]

Well, it would also cost rosaries for the added security

[plain ember]

There is no silksong

[cerulean sable]

wow totally not an overused joke

[coarse leaf]

i think if the cost is too high, alot of people will probably just chance it though

[opaque sigil]

That's the point

[coarse leaf]

oh yh, nm im slow today

[olive bobcat]

We have discussions here, sir

[fleet temple]

laugh at the funny

[agile lily]

silksong more like silksilence

[frank marten]

maybe the real silksong was the friends we made along the way

[fleet temple]

wow this is very humor

[frank marten]

much funni, beeg wow

[cerulean sable]

It wasn't the wait that broke me.
It's not the lack of news either.
It was the same jokes, the same jokes over and over again

[frank marten]

its like a kid asking are we there yet during a trip, after so long you just want to kick them out

[cerulean sable]

Its not even the "haha very funny" feeling
For me its the "literally... please... just stop"

[frank marten]

i think thats the same felling everyone has, atleast now

and if you like silknever jokes, please dont

[opaque sigil]

I don't think anybody ever has

[tribal merlin]

[same joke] amirite guys

[frank marten]

there is a chance that someone, somewhere, does, so we must punish him

[nimble radish]

people keep making the same jokes someone must be finding it funny

or they'd have stopped by now right

[frank marten]

if people dont like something, someone will say it just to annoy them

[cerulean sable]

i think its more of a case of

[low vapor]

guys silksong isnt real get pranked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[frank marten]

and by them, i mean us

[cerulean sable]

them just being outside this channel

then seeing the community like reddit, twitter and youtube use it

[frank marten]

can we just add a bot that says not funny to silknever jokes?

[cerulean sable]

so they come in here thinking its one of those funny "how to trigger an entire community joke"

but in reality everyones seen it and most are just tired of it

[opaque sigil]

[frank marten]

so people instantly get that it was heard so much it got boring

[nimble radish]

?silkneverpsa

[opaque sigil]

?snpsa

[frank marten]

kinda like the psa thing, but instead of a command, any message with silknever in it just gets a "not funny"

or bans them

[tribal merlin]

the bot saying "not funny" is not funny in itself
the bot should make fart jokes instead

[fallow apex]

Great idea

[tired lake]

I wonder when we will get the next news, last ones were the edge magazine right?

[fiery coral]

The last one was Edge yeah

[tribal merlin]

like when John goes
-"silknever"
the bot goes
-"John farted "

[tired lake]

Hmmmm so it's been a while, maybe something at the end of the year

[fiery coral]

Hopefully!

[opaque sigil]

Edge was a while ago but it was pretty dense

[tired lake]

Yeah true that

My issues with those kind of news is that I wanna see as less as possible

[opaque sigil]

Fair enough, but then pretty much anything aside from release date you might want to avoid

[tired lake]

Yeah

I mostly enjoy the topics of how the work is going, like, how efficient they've been working, if they've been stuck and the likes

[opaque sigil]

Plus Edge was clearly made with that in mind, it didn't really say much about later in the game, just talked about design philosophy, early game, and game systems

[tired lake]

Yeah

[opaque sigil]

Aside from the name "Last Judge" and a screenshot of its arena, Edge didn't really say much of anything spoiler-y

[tired lake]

Yeah, I haven't seen the edge magazine fully, so I don't know it all

[tribal merlin]

after putting some serious thought into it, the bot should just remove the "silknever" message and replace it with "I farted ".

I think everybody can get behind that
let's ping the channel owners

[nimble radish]

cheesoid for admin, with ideas like these we can't fail

[opaque sigil]

Shame this server has an authoritarian regime

[nimble radish]

revolution time

[tribal merlin]

୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨

[tired lake]

[cerulean sable]

unironically add Silknever to the blacklist

[opaque sigil]

Please

[tired lake]

I think Silksoon ain't that bad

[opaque sigil]

It occupies a similar space but it isn't as bad

[tired lake]

It's like "yeah silksoon" and just after

As long as Silksong isnt Metroid 4 treatment, we're fine

[cerulean sable]

its harder to do long sentences

[opaque sigil]

I mean at this point it can't be

[cerulean sable]

so stuff like "silksong isnt real" wont be removed anytime soon /s

[tired lake]

Yeah, they announced it and never said anything again huh?

[nimble radish]

silksong is the only thing that is real

[opaque sigil]

afaik

[tribal merlin]

train a bayesian spam filter

let bot operate off the rating

[olive bobcat]

1984, but welcome

[opaque sigil]

or just set a precedent of mods deleting silknever jokes manually

[tribal merlin]

what, are we living in a cave now?

[cerulean sable]

for real as annoying as they can be theyre not really against the rules

[nimble radish]

make it against the rules

[tribal merlin]

farting on to somebody's food isn't against the law either, buuuuuut...

[cerulean sable]

deep inside the dark pits of my arteries i REALLY do wanna smite them

[frank marten]

dark pits???? thats just common sense man what you mean by dark pits????

[tired lake]

Okay so, when they announced Dread, they said they're still working on Prime 4, so ig it's not "dead dead"

[opaque sigil]

No, but they've said nothing of substance about it

Which is fine, just very much not the route TC has gone

[tired lake]

Yeah

[opaque sigil]

It's true that the concentration of updates from TC has decreased but they've said a lot about the game

[tired lake]

Agreed

That was a false statement I made, without thinking that it ain't even the case

[cerulean sable]

https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/q6zhvq/how_do_you_deliver_on_hype/ heeeyyy found this thread

[pallid flare]

why should I listen to elon musk

[cerulean sable]

duhhh cuz hes wholesome 100?

[clever bear]

moss grotto by beloved

[opaque sigil]

fr though moss grotto is immaculate

[clever bear]

I love it so much

after watching it on played in the demo

[opaque sigil]

I hope there's more playtime there than just early game

[clever bear]

and the theme is really awesome too

[clever bear]

well there’s those doors with the weaver symbols on either side of the grotto

maybe you come back in the later game?

[opaque sigil]

Probably at least a little

[clever bear]

and I’m sure there will be more playtime there in general, it’s an actual area as opposed to the King’s Pass which was just a small subarea

[opaque sigil]

Yes, and there is at least some more MG beyond Moss Mother/the old church where the demo stopped

[clever bear]

yeah

the coral forest also looks incredible

we don’t know anything about it but from what we’ve seen so far

[normal hinge]

fish

[opaque sigil]

Yeah, the vivid nature of some of SS's areas is such a stark contrast from HK. The most lively area there was Deepnest and, uh, that was pretty different

[clever bear]

yeah

[coarse leaf]

for me the most lively area was the hive

[clever bear]

the queen’s gardens and the hive were probably the most lively I’d say

maybe crystal peak too

[coarse leaf]

yeah

[clever bear]

don’t get me wrong the areas in hk were awesome

but I think the thing is that pharloom isn’t “dead” like hallownest

[coarse leaf]

Yeah but HK feels very dead to me, I mean the kingdom is dead 😂 I like SS better

[clever bear]

color palette can portray a lot

[coarse leaf]

omg our minds same

[clever bear]

exactly

pharloom just has a “curse” of some sort but it hasn’t killed anyone

[coarse leaf]

And sometimes HK feels almost claustrophobic?

[opaque sigil]

Well, imo HK did make the "dead" vibe work quite well, so I wouldn't say that SS being lively is necessarily better, but it is welcome

[clever bear]

at points, I’m sure there will be areas like that in SS too

[coarse leaf]

Oh no I mean better in that I prefer SS vibe of envieonments

[clever bear]

yeah TC did an amazing job at portraying the theme or whatever of the first game

[opaque sigil]

ik, I'm saying that I don't personally inherently prefer one over the other

[clever bear]

mood I meant to say

the forest of bones and the deep docks look very similar

greenpath and queen’s gardens part II

[opaque sigil]

Yeah, seems like they're probably adjacent

[clever bear]

deep docks is the third area I believe? after the forest of bones

I don’t remember where I heard this

I don’t really see a moss grotto-forest of bones connection though

[opaque sigil]

Hard to say, really. There's also the marrow (which may not constitute its own area) and it's also possible that a very small sliver of the forest of bones is traversed, or none at all

[clever bear]

I guess there’s that really big open area that we saw in the trailer with the little village

[opaque sigil]

It isn't direct, it's via bonebottom

[clever bear]

but we don’t know if that’s bonebottom

I mean I know what you’re saying

[opaque sigil]

Either way, it's via that town

[clever bear]

yeah most likely

[coarse leaf]

neither do I

[opaque sigil]

And the (presumably) pre-DD screenshot and that town have the same statues in the bg

Far right here

[clever bear]

what are your thoughts on the cities we’ve seen so far

[opaque sigil]

All along here

[clever bear]

oh yeah that’s interesting

[opaque sigil]

They're much larger than Dirtmouth, at least. SS seems to have much more NPC interaction (and presumably therefore much more dialogue)

[clever bear]

I mean like

the gilded city

it’s probably gonna be somewhat of silksong’s city of tears

I think the cities look immaculate but I don’t think they’ll beat the city of tears

[opaque sigil]

idk, greymoor kinda seems more like a hub area to me

[clever bear]

greymoor isn’t a city

[opaque sigil]

No, but neither was CoT mechanically, it wasn't a safe locale with a ton of NPCs (though it did have a few)

[clever bear]

In response to the dialogue part, hornet will be able to speak to NPCs

greymoor is supposedly the “biggest area” that TC has ever created

[opaque sigil]

Well, TK was silent but that didn't exactly do much to prevent NPCs from monologuing

[clever bear]

I don’t know how much of a hub it’s going to be

[clever bear]

no mouth

well actually we never see hornet’s mouth either but she’s not a vessel

[opaque sigil]

Well, it probably has a mouth that just isn't drawn, same as Hornet and many other bugs, but that's a whole other rabbit hole

[clever bear]

the knight is a vessel so he isn’t able to engage in dialogue

[opaque sigil]

Yeah

[olive bobcat]

One of the biggest*

[cerulean sable]

im curious to what parts of the game TC will respond to to criticism or ones where theyll double down on

[signal crag]

what are the main points being criticized about Hollow Knight, anyway?
Not very interesting enemy encounters in the early game?
the slow start?

[marsh ibex]

your mother

[cerulean sable]

gottem

well let see

[olive bobcat]

Backtracking

[cerulean sable]

• Difficulty
• Early game slowness
• Death System
• Backtracking
• Environmental Variety
• Vagueness of objectives
• Map System

its usually those

so far their most known response in HK at least led them to adding Dream Gate and making Uumuu easier in Godhome

thats in respect to HK

[signal crag]

as a metroidvania, i'm not sure how much can be done about that

[opaque sigil]

I mean in a lot of those cases they've already demonstrated some improvement

[signal crag]

you get new abilities to use, so you have a reason to go back and check previous areas

[olive bobcat]

Just be Pokemon Sword and Shield

[floral kindle]

by environmental variety you mean "black+colur" colouring?

[opaque sigil]

Plus with such a poorly defined progression sequence backtracking is unavoidable

[nimble radish]

enemy variety

[cerulean sable]

Despite that, i still see people mentioning they love Metroidvanias but found HK's backtracking to be a chore, thats a common sentiment at least

[cerulean sable]

yeah usually people mention how environments are the samey

[signal crag]

oh? so HK's backatracking specifically is an issue for them?

[cerulean sable]

again a lot of these can be subjective but its really what i see often whenever someone recommend it

[gilded drift]

hk backtracking is extremely vague, and its often that u dont know what u should do next

[cerulean sable]

Usually when i see threads relating to other darling, often the highest comments are people praising the game

For HK, the top comments are usually:

1. Love the atmosphere, but i hate the difficulty
2. I could never go past 5-15 hours before getting bored
3. Ive tried to play it for 3-4 times but I couldnt really get into it

[opaque sigil]

SS environments are already demonstrably more diverse, the death system was changed with rosary strings, Quests remove some ambiguity from side objectives, early game seems to pick up faster, enemies are said to be more diverse. Difficulty is supposed to be the same/similar to HK, map system is fine idk why people would complain about that, backtracking is a necessity anyways and HK wasn't really that bad about it

HK has some pretty generous fast travel so backtracking isn't tedious at all

[floral kindle]

I guess it's the knight's mobility that makes back tracking boring for them

[cerulean sable]

Yeah its usually the traversal that people points out in that regard

[opaque sigil]

Well that's been changed pretty significantly for SS too

[cerulean sable]

I often see it being a chore for people, compared to other metroidvanias
Well i guess its the combination of the early abilities and how huge the map is

i would say for the others but i dont wanna be 100% sure until i see it in the game itself

like, i have high hopes ofc, but THEORETICALLY what if the sprint isnt even enough etc

[signal crag]

maybe if Hornet hets the dash/sprint ability quite early in the game, it would solve some pacing issues some people have
also because it looks like the fast travel system is not available as early as HK

[cerulean sable]

ofc this are more just concerns that i dont wanna 100% squash until i get to play it myself, despite me believing myself that these things are already remedied in SS

[opaque sigil]

Seems about the same, tbh

Fast travel doesn't pop up before it's needed, ig, but why would it

[cerulean sable]

like for real, everytime HK is mentioned theres always a split split in the comments for it 🥴

[opaque sigil]

HK was the same way, the first stag station isn't accessible until that access would be useful

Which is a decent ways into the first substantial area

And even then that only makes sense bc dirtmouth was so early

[signal crag]

so hornet needs to be decently mobile on her own in the early game, so that she's not immediately dependent on fast travel

or the early game is still pretty linear, so that's it's not really needed anyway

[opaque sigil]

I mean you can't really be dependent upon fast travel until a certain point in the game when you've explored enough, and by then it'll probably be unlocked

[tribal merlin]

I'd argue that some vagueness of objective is actually good for the game
I really dislike the "go there do that" mmorpg system many games have adopted in the recent decade, all with dots on maps, quest subgoals and everything

[opaque sigil]

Yeah but some people take issue with it which is fair ig if you don't want to have to explore and figure it out but then why are you playing a metroidvania in the first place

A lot of the things TTacco mentioned seem like things that aren't really an issue with HK as a game so much as HK not being the sort of game an individual would enjoy

[tribal merlin]

"let's make games worse for the sake of people who don't want to play the genre in the first place"

[opaque sigil]

And especially for a $15 game idk why the devs should feel like they have to cater to everybody, it's not like anybody's going to be dropping $60 on SS expecting something totally different from what the game actually is

[signal crag]

"map system"
btw is that one mentioned only because the map doesn't appear automatically in the HUD?

[cerulean sable]

Uhh map is a mix

Theres those who hate the system itself of needing to buy maps, needing to sit on the bench to update it, and needing to buy the items for it (quill, compass, etc)

its either a combination of these

[opaque sigil]

I mean the quill is a bit silly

[signal crag]

i mean
c'mon those are such minor things tbh

[cerulean sable]

ehhh ive seen people who loved metroidvanias tho but didnt like HK

i guess its how you want your metroidvanias cooked

[opaque sigil]

HK isn't a super standard metroidvania so I'm not surprised

[cerulean sable]

ye

but really ive seen it always boils down (if you narrow it down at least) mainly on difficulty, traversal and pacing iirc

[opaque sigil]

I mean aside from the first hour HK's pacing is kinda in the player's hands

[coarse leaf]

i kinda think even for a metroidvania hk was a bit vague with objectives, like I loved it, but there was a tonne of wandering around aimlessly

[cerulean sable]

Difficulty is such a can of worms

[signal crag]

yeah, i saw some people that found HK to be pretty hard

[cerulean sable]

I love threads about souls series, just sort by controversial

[opaque sigil]

Everything in base game is pretty doable if you're willing to be patient and learn the patterns. P5 and whatnot is a bit rough, but it's super optional

[coarse leaf]

I hated metroidvanias and I freaking love HK

[cerulean sable]

its a half mix fight of people arguing that accessbility to experience the other parts of the game is not a bad idea, vs to people saying its the developers right to not add because its part of the experience

[signal crag]

also, for normal enemy encounters, most of the time you can simply avoid them if you don't want to fight

[cerulean sable]

"part of the experience" is the biggest trigger word

[signal crag]

sometime, you simply can't make everyone happy
you'll have to take the hit

[tough glen]

Sup

[coarse leaf]

hi

[tough glen]

I see you're talking bout maps and fast travel again?

[signal crag]

ehh, yeah but more like what people don't like about HK

[cerulean sable]

ahhh that also puts another can of worms, namely bad first impressions on early boss fights, my friend liked the game but didnt like the need to run to soul master

granted not all bosses are like that but considering SM and Mantises are the possible early bosses youll fight, i kinda get why people would find those run backs frustrating

[nimble radish]

just make cheat codes a thing again

[signal crag]

and what could be done for Silksong, if that's possible

[opaque sigil]

Well, mantis lords aren't supposed to be beatable at first, really

[cerulean sable]

NGL i expected you to say something like "What are we guys talking about" something that could be solved just by back reading like 5-10 posts

[signal crag]

i mean, if you die even Quirrel tells you that you should go somewhere else to upgrade your weapon

[opaque sigil]

That "somewhere else" being the city itself

[signal crag]

unless you give him the finger, and keep fighting the mantis lords

which is what i did

[nimble radish]

mantis lords aren't so bad on low equipment

[tough glen]

That's what I usually do but I decided to surprise you

[opaque sigil]

And SM has pretty manageable patterns. The death run can suck a bit but you open safer and quicker paths there, it's not like you need to do the whole sanctum again

[radiant wraith]

That because they are like riding a bike

[cerulean sable]

youre on thin fucking ice buddy

[radiant wraith]

They are never hard again after beating them once

[opaque sigil]

ML on the first playthrough with low equipment though...

[nimble radish]

what's the topic

[cerulean sable]

i will end you

[nimble radish]

true

[tough glen]

The 'quicker' paths still go through the vertical room with tons of Soul Twisters

[opaque sigil]

You can just run past them

[cerulean sable]

Soul Twisters is the one people usually point out

[nimble radish]

everyone hates soul twisters

[tough glen]

Please don't, I like existing

[cerulean sable]

then you get the arguement of "then why not just add a closer shortcut to it then"

[opaque sigil]

Soul twisters suck, that's for sure, but the paths back to SM let you avoid the vast majority of them

[tough glen]

You have a tight vertical room with three of them, tammo

[nimble radish]

personally I always killed them because... my brain went "get the geo" I guess

that said after a while I think I did just try to run past

[coarse leaf]

same lol, the things we put ourselves through for geo...

[tough glen]

And 'running past them' isnt an option when you're dealing with teleporting sniper bitches

[radiant wraith]

If they had put a bench before the fight you would have known there would be a boss fight, ruining the effect of the little intro.

[nimble radish]

you know what really got me first playthough, the fuckin mistakes, they always spawned under my feet and the way they change speed when they notice you threw me off

[tough glen]

But hey other than that I love everything about the sanctum

[coarse leaf]

yh, getting hit once kinda fks ur whole rhythm

[opaque sigil]

It is when their projectiles don't penetrate and they shoot infrequently, and don't follow you that far

[cerulean sable]

which is why im not against having not so obvious shortcuts tho, like i get the arguement against closer ones

stuff like having the elevator near the cornifer bench leading up to SM wouldve been a cool find

[tough glen]

Thank god for the elevator shortcut

As it was

[cerulean sable]

that elevator shortcut only saves like the effort of having to go through the large husk

[radiant wraith]

I guess they just couldn't fit a shortcut in the layout

[tough glen]

Still, it felt super convenient

Doesn't matter how convenient it actually was

[opaque sigil]

They did, they effectively cut out like 2/3 of the sanctum

[radiant wraith]

An even more cutting one I mean

[tough glen]

This isn't wrong, it just they kept the most annoying 1/3

[cerulean sable]

TC themselves claimed their reasoning for it was so that you would think about your actions first on your way, but players often mention if they wanted to cool off, theyll just take break

And the need to reach there just adds frustration of fighting the bosses again just to learn the pattern

[tough glen]

Wait so what was the parallels you were looking for in SS

[cerulean sable]

Honestly i dont mind the difficulty or the map system i love those parts, but i dont mind SS being a bit more lenient in regards to some of those runs tho, imo at least

[radiant wraith]

Excuses TC?

[opaque sigil]

SS demo had benches like right before MM and Lace, but that could just be a demo thing

[cerulean sable]

Lace and MM benches were perfect IMO

[tough glen]

One of the reasons ST was like ten times more enjoyable to learn than SM I think

[opaque sigil]

Or it could stop as players learn to metabolize boss fights

[tough glen]

Iirc lace's was equivalent to hornet 1 I'm bench distance?

[cerulean sable]

Like, its not the "heres a bench just outside the door" obviousness that people dont like about while still being conveniently close

yeah

[tough glen]

Don't remember MM tho

[cerulean sable]

Moss Mom's bench is literally just underneath the church

[opaque sigil]

MM was in the next room over

[tough glen]

So kinda like GM from the crossroads stag?

[cerulean sable]

also another arguement for the travel time is that so you can collect soul on your way for the fight, which isnt really necessary if they keep the system where cocoons give silk

[opaque sigil]

I mean when you open a path straight to a bench it's kinda sus tbf

[cerulean sable]

which i think they will, given they explicitly mentioned it in the blogpost

[opaque sigil]

SS would also have issues with red tool attrition on long boss runs

[cerulean sable]

i mean i get why people dont like the "HERES A BENCH, YES THERES GONNA BE A BOSS FIGHT" but i think Lace was a decent middle ground

[tough glen]

Not every bench means bossfight

[opaque sigil]

I mean there isn't anything wrong with being able to predict a boss coming

[tough glen]

Most don't

[cerulean sable]

like again, wouldve been great a example if the Cornifer CoT bench leading up to Soul Master's arena

if that happened i wouldve even expected the elevator to lead down there, id be "WHATTT THIS LEADS DOWN HERE???"

you kinda cant avoid it either, because eventually every large room thats vaguely a rectangle is enough to give you warnings

unless they mix up the arenas again this time

[opaque sigil]

Plus there's only so much trickery you can do to be subtle about bench placements and shortcuts without tipping players off, especially as they start to learn your patterns

[tough glen]

Aight fair point, but at that point the boss is already on you and/or you can't escape

[opaque sigil]

Often not

But that's for the best, trapping players in ambush boss fights is a great way to piss people off

[cerulean sable]

i guess having an unexpected boss fight is also part of the tension they might be going for

you never know if youre about to stumble upon one as well as risking your geo

[tough glen]

Was the nosk arena design a good choice or not in your opinion

[radiant wraith]

I'd rather be surprised than unfrustrated

[cerulean sable]

true but tbf theyll probably be even more annoyed if the game made you backtrack just to fight one of those bosses again

[tough glen]

Like, how it forced you to keep going in nonstop to get the shade

[opaque sigil]

It's fine, pretty clear that there's going to be a fight so you can walk away if you have a ton of geo

[radiant wraith]

Surprises are key to the experience

[opaque sigil]

Boss arenas that have shade spawn points within the fight trigger range are a bit weird but hey, there's always jiji for that

Or you can save+quit if you really want out

[nimble radish]

nosk also has those doors that close before the fight for some reason

[cerulean sable]

like adding some cooldown period between bosses in Godhome wouldnt make them think "you know what? ill just cool off and rethink my methods", at best theyll complain that they just wanna relearn the fight anyway

[tough glen]

I mean beyond the 'surprise', once you start fighting-losing-getshade-repeat

[opaque sigil]

That's what Jiji's made for, and you can quit if you really want out

It's not like the player is left with no recourse

[burnt topaz]

Yeah, it's not like you ever run out of rancid eggs

[tough glen]

Yeah I was referring to those too

[radiant wraith]

The intro to AbsRad felt too much for me after many attempts even

[cerulean sable]

fair

[opaque sigil]

They're plentiful and have no real limit, but ig Tuk's a bit tucked away

[nimble radish]

yo tess

[cerulean sable]

but tbf godhome is meant for replayable bosses anyway, in regular play theyll most likely just leave that area for an easier route

[burnt topaz]

I don't think I've even gone through the rancid eggs I found in the wild

[opaque sigil]

But SS is going to have the rosary strings anyways so there's always that option

[tough glen]

Speaking of nosk and shortcuts, the nosk shortcut was very well made imo

[tough glen]

As far as we know it works similar to relics no?

[cerulean sable]

And yeah, death system critiques uhhh
even GMTK mentioned it that (in his opinion at least) it decentivized exploration because now instead of going through another route, youll feel compelled to go back to the first spot because you wanna get your money back so it gives this negative loop or some shit

[opaque sigil]

But you can convert rosaries to rosary strings, not just the other way around

[opaque sigil]

Yeah, but the rosary strings do reduce that effect substantially if the player is considerate

[cerulean sable]

As for Jiji, i think realistically a lot of player wont even figure our her purpose in a no spoiler run

[cerulean sable]

ye ye im talking in respect to HK at least

for SS having hard currency would probably alleviate it

[tough glen]

Yeah that was gonna be my next question

[coarse leaf]

I did, on accident

[opaque sigil]

I disagree, especially if you read the shade journal entry, which is a pretty heavy-handed hint

[coarse leaf]

And I’m rather dumb about these things

[opaque sigil]

Jiji was practically winking at you

[cerulean sable]

which a lot of people needs to have it spelled out for you

[radiant wraith]

Give egg me egg me give me

[cerulean sable]

Even streamers need to ask their chat what the fuck she does

[tough glen]

Wha
TESS
HELLO

I must go unfortunately

But nice talking to you all again, byeee

[opaque sigil]

I mean the hint is there, it's not really TC's fault if players don't bother to think about it. If only their explicitly telling you how the system works would satisfy you, then maybe this just isn't the game for you, since that isn't TC's style

[burnt topaz]

Bye

[radiant wraith]

It's been a pleasure Godfriend
bye

[burnt topaz]

She mentions stuff about regrets so I just assumed she meant deaths

[opaque sigil]

TC doesn't tell you about pogo either, but they expect you to figure it out. Same with dash and jump recharging

[cerulean sable]

Pogo was a fucked up tutorial according to graig

[nimble radish]

expecting people to figure out pogo didn't work out for a lot of people

[cerulean sable]

They were supposed to teach it to you during Crystal Mound

[nimble radish]

oh? I heard ancestral mound

[cerulean sable]

but they overbuffed the nail range too much that you could destroy the floor even without slashing downwards

[opaque sigil]

Crystal mound would be pretty damn late

[burnt topaz]

I got stuck in the fungal wastes because I didn't know how to pogo the mushrooms

[cerulean sable]

oh Ancestral I mean

but yeah you were supposed to know down slashing as you could destroy floors and ceilings during that section

then they buffed it before release

[nimble radish]

the mushrooms confused me so much since I didn't know about pogo, since I'd never played a game with pogo previously

[pallid flare]

same

tried timing my jumps on them but that didn't work

[burnt topaz]

I guess I had to have done that but it just didn't register in my mind

[cerulean sable]

in a way similar to why you can see the "hold down to look down" tutorial near Mawlek: that area was supposed to be at the start of the game

[opaque sigil]

I mean unless you've just been fighting by sitting on the ground and swinging left and right idk how you wouldn't stumble across pogo

[cerulean sable]

but they moved that section and the Mawlek fight to that corner in Crossroads instead

[opaque sigil]

ig also up but if you can swing up it would then also follow that you could swing down, in which case people would probably try to use that ability and then discover pogo

[cerulean sable]

yeah but if things like these gets missed by a lot of people then i think they couldve done a better way to communicate it to begin with

and yeah i agree that its fine if the devs makes you learn stuff on your own, but pogo is an evidence that some people will regardless struggle of something that simple 🥴

[radiant wraith]

It's okay if they eventually get it

[opaque sigil]

The fact that some people struggled with something doesn’t mean that the devs need to change how they acclimate players to game systems

[radiant wraith]

I guess they could have done a little tutorial thing like the Mawlek thing you mentioned

They could have

[cerulean sable]

something like the jiji shade system being an on your own i guess, but basic controls wouldnt really hurt either

[opaque sigil]

They give you all the tools you need to discover it

And some fights make it hard not to, like Hornet 1

[cerulean sable]

for me at least, there are times that you can leave the player to discover it on their own but there are times that youre not really missing out on much if you tell the basic necessities

like if theres some kind of advance movement tech then yeah i agree, you should learn that on your own
but basic look up/down and directional slashes is something you can safely communicate

[radiant wraith]

You know those gates at the start of king's pass? They could have made one on the floor

[burnt topaz]

Yeah, you can tell the player you can pogo on enemies but you can let them figure out they can also do it on spikes and stuff

[cerulean sable]

if its in respect to learning the down slash on your own on something like the afformentioned ancient mound then yeah i think having no obvious "here let me pause the game for you" tutorial woudlve been a great way, but they didnt, so what ended up is people not knowing they could until they reach the mushrooms

[opaque sigil]

At which point the mushrooms become the functional tutorial

And c'mon, directional strikes should just go without saying

[marsh ibex]

your face is a functional tutorial

gottem

[opaque sigil]

[burnt topaz]

I got pogoed on

[nimble radish]

unless you've never played a game with them before

[cerulean sable]

for people who hasnt tried platformers it wasnt obvious

both of my friends had to ask me that

and tbh

i didnt either

this was my first platformer ever again since 2010

[opaque sigil]

HK doesn't tell you about the variable jump height either iirc

[pallid flare]

yeah but it isn't obvious that the strikes will propel you upward if you hit something

no game I ever played had that

[opaque sigil]

No, but it will be if you try to downstrike anything

[cerulean sable]

but yeah i agree with Amina, i think having basics is fine, but learning you could use those stuff to pogo on stuff like spikes is up to the player

[opaque sigil]

Hell even if you're just button mashing or smth as you go there's a decent chance you could accidentally pogo on a background object

[marsh ibex]

Should’ve played ducktales bruv

[stark estuary]

I mean, it's reasonable for TC to assume that players would experiment with stuff like that and happen upon it by chance

[stark estuary]

And Shovel Knight

[tawdry valley]

This is communicated fairly well.

[marsh ibex]

no

only ducktales

shovel knight is bootleg ducktales

[radiant wraith]

OK orange

[marsh ibex]

fight me

[tawdry valley]

If the player doesn’t figure it out in KPass, there are 2 opportunities in crossroads; and lots of insurance in fungal wastes.

[opaque sigil]

Also the Hornet 1 fight

[pallid flare]

lots of players had to google that (including me lol)

[opaque sigil]

That's just begging for players to downstrike her and her needle

[stark estuary]

Yeah FW has a ton of bouncy mushrooms

[burnt topaz]

Beyond fungal wastes its very obvious but I guess we're assuming that TC expects us to know the mechanic before fungal wastes

[tawdry valley]

Did you make it to fungal wastes before googling.

[pallid flare]

yes

[tawdry valley]

TC does not; all pogo usage pre fungal wastes is optional.

[pallid flare]

it isn't hard but nothing told me that I must pogo

[cerulean sable]

wouldve really detract from to the overall experience to tell them these minor controls

again Silksong could easily just give you an early game corridor where it says "Press up and down to attack directions"
give you 2 objects in front of you
and naturally youre like "oh so i have to hit those with down attack?" and from there on you see another lever thats too high so now you just assume to hit it with up slash

[nimble radish]

we were supposed to learn in ancestral mound

[pallid flare]

I saw mushroom, I jumped on it

[cerulean sable]

same reaction

[pallid flare]

didn't work -> google

[cerulean sable]

was thinking why i cant float high enough

[tawdry valley]

What is never actually communicated is the ability to pan the camera up and down

[opaque sigil]

It is by Mawlek

[pallid flare]

that's an optional area that you need claws for

[opaque sigil]

But realistically the looking up and down isn't super useful anyways

[pallid flare]

or you can pogo up to but... you know

[cerulean sable]

They did it on Mawlek but that section was originally part of Kings Pass

the reason its down there is because Mawlek was an early fight that they just shifted down in FC

[tawdry valley]

Which both has plenty of opportunity for doing so, but is also not necessarily an important mechanism

[cerulean sable]

i mean it can be useful though

[opaque sigil]

Although if you're playing on controller I'd be shocked if you didn't figure out the looking function pretty quickly

[cerulean sable]

Dropping down then hitting spikes isnt exactly immersive

[tawdry valley]

It can; and I think it should be communicated; but it’s really not a priority

[opaque sigil]

Well, from what we've seen SS doesn't seem to have anything like that, really, although ig we probably wouldn't know if it did

[tribal merlin]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uGNHfvlmtmU/maxresdefault.jpg

[opaque sigil]

The downstrike is still there but it's pretty prominently featured in the trailer so most people will probably know of it

[burnt topaz]

At least stuff like the dash and jump is pretty intuitive

[cerulean sable]

i dont think its gonna be prevalent as it was in SS because majority is gonna be playing with experience from HK anyway

[opaque sigil]

They'll probably explain sprint pretty explicitly

[pallid flare]

yes let me look at the controller controls while playing on keyboard + mouse

[burnt topaz]

Remapping controls on keyboard is always one of the first things I do

[tribal merlin]

let me play this designed for controller game with my keyboard

[pallid flare]

was it really designed exclusively for controller

[tribal merlin]

did I say exclusive?

[cerulean sable]

HL2 still has one of my fav tutorials

like from simple physics stuff where barney tells you to "stack some boxes", then get a non intrusive key prompt telling you can hold and drop objects

then from there they reinforce it further like the cop telling you to pick up a can

[pallid flare]

same thing

no input style was prioritised

[tribal merlin]

they likely had in mind "if it goes well we port it to console" so designed controls and number of actions according to controllers, moreso for SS since it'll be on a console from the start.
That doesn't mean you can't play it with keyboard, it just means there wasn't too much thought put into kbd controls

and yes that means controller was/is a priority over keyboard

which in turn doesn't mean you're doing it wrong if you use kbd

[pallid flare]

this all doesn't matter as it's still not communicated well for keyboard and mouse players

there's no reason to look in the controller controls while not using one

[tribal merlin]

further proving my point that controller is a priority for them ^^

but yeah it'd be nice for kbd people to have a better overview of the mapping

[shell yacht]

kbm players

[pallid flare]

shut up :(

[proud vale]

yuck, controller all the way

[pallid flare]

I tried beating the radiance on controller and it's so hard

[tribal merlin]

kbm ez mode casuals confirmed

[tall hinge]

wtf pyro uses kbm?

[trim estuary]

Isn’t it explained in green path?

[tall hinge]

[proud vale]

Thank you pitta for validating

[trim estuary]

When you’re platforming and can’t see where the acid is until you jump or look down

[pallid flare]

yes I do and I am tired of pretending that I don't

[trim estuary]

No but they highly recommend using one

[pallid flare]

I think I still have the video

[marsh ibex]

he’s da jokah baby

[mortal grove]

respect gone down

[pallid flare]

why does everyone hate me all of a sudden

[trim estuary]

explode

[pallid flare]

I did 14% on kb+m

[tribal merlin]

no reason

[proud vale]

Keyboard and mouse makes it feel like a flash game

[trim estuary]

You did the rest on controller or..?

[mortal grove]

kbm 👊 👊 players 🔪 🔫

[pallid flare]

no

[glossy gazelle]

Lol imagine using kb+m

[pallid flare]

wtf

[marsh ibex]

man leave pyro alone

[trim estuary]

bullyism

[proud vale]

Damn Pyro really copping it

[pallid flare]

bullying :(

[warm bone]

Bullying :)

[marsh ibex]

who cares about what type of inputs of whatever pyro uses

[proud vale]

You know we truly love you deep down Pyro, even if you're a kb+m pleb

[marsh ibex]

let them use whatever the fuck they want

hell use dk bongos for all i care

[proud vale]

Taiko drums

[pallid flare]

I must judge whoever doesn't enjoy this type of media the way I do it

[proud vale]

or better wii balance board

[pallid flare]

fuck you controller players >:(

[mortal grove]

war

[trim estuary]

Are those an actual controller thing

[pallid flare]

1v1 me in hollow knight

[trim estuary]

Ok

[mortal grove]

HOW

ill beat you up

[pallid flare]

with the multiplayer mod

[marsh ibex]

You can use them in ssbu

[mortal grove]

youre gonna be owned

[glossy gazelle]

I mean SS probably will have a control style with controller players in mind since it’s (presumably) launching on switch the same time as pc. It’s not like they’ll disable using the keyboard, just that, they’ll have a controller style ready immediately

[trim estuary]

This is the part where we bully people for playing on anything but PC

[pallid flare]

it is

[proud vale]

1v1 me on mario kart wheel

[marsh ibex]

Nintendo switch player gg ez

[mortal grove]

demote joker now

[pallid flare]

why?

do you play on switch or what

[mortal grove]

i play on pc

[fiery coral]

console gang

[proud vale]

YOO KNIVES OUT

[fiery coral]

okay Joker

[fiery coral]

YOOOO

[warm bone]

Pc is just a console that you don’t need to pay a monthly subscription to play online for

[proud vale]

What a movie

[fiery coral]

Great film

doughnut hole in a doughnut hole

[proud vale]

Great taste unique

[fiery coral]

🤝

[marsh ibex]

Wait wrong one

Sorree

[fiery coral]

ah okay

[tall hinge]

KNIVES OUT IS SUCH A GOOD MOVIE

[pallid flare]

what kind of movie is that

[fiery coral]

I KNOW RIGHT

it's a murder mystery

[tall hinge]

murder mystery

[proud vale]

Yo so much good taste going around lets goooo

[pallid flare]

where is it on

[tall hinge]

[mortal grove]

huh

[fiery coral]

never really paid for any subscription service, so no idea where it might currently be on, sorry I watched it in theatres

[marsh ibex]

mog

[proud vale]

apparently foxtel go premium subscription? That's all I can find

[tall hinge]

oh its on netflix i think, somewhere in the world if you have a vpn

[pallid flare]

amazon prime

gonna watch it... one day

[tall hinge]

[warm bone]

[proud vale]

[tall hinge]

[heady sandal]

so.... silksong huh?

[pallid flare]

silksong...?

[trim estuary]

a—-us

[coarse leaf]

amogus

[trim estuary]

dies

[coarse leaf]

that is a person when among us

[trim estuary]

would you like to explain your pfp

[pallid flare]

what's wrong with it

[trim estuary]

Wait now there’s two oranges

[vivid belfry]

Comment on keyboard vs controller layouts

Default keyboard controls are bad, remapping to wasd + jkl (homerow is based) makes certain parts of the game objectively easier (at least for HK)

[pallid flare]

do you use the mouse too

[vivid belfry]

I expect the keyboard advantages to be somewhat diminished in silksong because pogo spam is gone and we don't know if there are charge attacks like nail arts

No I don't use mouse because I use my right hand for everything that isn't moving or jumping

[opaque sigil]

Mouse: 2 buttons
No mouse: as many buttons as you want
Seems like an easy choice

[vivid belfry]

Left hand for movement, right hand for attacks and abilities, it's practically identical to a controller layout

[pallid flare]

I have 5 buttons on mine

(can't use 2 of them because hollow knight doesn't support them for some reason)

[opaque sigil]

So you have 3

[pallid flare]

technically, yes

[vivid belfry]

The main difference is that WASD is more consistent and responsive than any dpad made these days

[opaque sigil]

And pressing scroll wheel sucks

[pallid flare]

depends

mine's pretty big

[vivid belfry]

You can set scrolling the mouse wheel as a control

[pallid flare]

and I hold my mouse in a way that makes it advantageous to use it instead

[vivid belfry]

They do that in subnautica speedruns because it makes you input insanely fast

Anyway if nail arts have an equivalent in SS, there will be merit to using keyboard over controller aside from being more used to it, otherwise I'll probably just stick with my DS4

[pallid flare]

I personally use the mouse because the keyboard gets too cramped

[vivid belfry]

Damn how do you type

[pallid flare]

it's usually fine for typing a few sentences but I can't rest like that for a longer period of time

[vivid belfry]

Damn

[pallid flare]

tl:dr keyboard small, mouse big

[vivid belfry]

Maybe you should get a better keyboard

[pallid flare]

I could

[trim estuary]

I wonder if an ability or something similar to a nart is unlocked when freeing a weaver (assuming that’s the goal of the game

[pallid flare]

I really could get a new one

[coarse leaf]

are you using like, a 40% kb or why is it so small

[opaque sigil]

Silk abilities come from weavers

[vivid belfry]

I don't think freeing the weavers is going to be the dreamer equivalent (if that's even part of the progression) but I do think you'll get shit from them

[pallid flare]

My left hand takes up about half my keyboard

[trim estuary]

It’d be cool if there’s a ton of weavers and only some are required to progress

[opaque sigil]

If anything the songshrines seem more promising as a dreamer analogue but we really can't say

[vivid belfry]

I wouldn't mind a complete lack of dreamer equivalents to get to the first ending

[opaque sigil]

Me neither

[vivid belfry]

Since the end of the game is at the top (probably), you could easily gate it with just movement abilities

[trim estuary]

What if you can just rush to the end from the beginning?

Without really doing much or collecting anything

[opaque sigil]

I mean you can always do that, it's called speedrunning

[trim estuary]

No but with next to no objectives prior

How do I explain this

[opaque sigil]

[trim estuary]

I give up

[vivid belfry]

I really doubt you can get to the final area of the game with no movement upgrades

[opaque sigil]

But you could do it with the minimum possible

[vivid belfry]

Basic navigation in later areas will almost definitely be made with dashing/sprinting in mind

[opaque sigil]

(I'll stop trolling now)

[trim estuary]

Isn’t the puke bug room made like that

[glossy gazelle]

[opaque sigil]

Looks like it

[trim estuary]

Wait no that’s for grapple I think?

[vivid belfry]

The puke bug room looks like it requires wall jump

The grapple is just a flourish there

[silver oak]

This is the point of speedruns

[opaque sigil]

Some clever spike ball placement might suffice though

[trim estuary]

Low% Ss when

[silver oak]

Actually, that’s the point of low% runs

[vivid belfry]

We don't know if it's possible to stack spike balls upwards

It might just get you a little extra height

[silver oak]

Sequence breaking with tools will be so cool

[opaque sigil]

Well if multiple can exist on screen you can probably toss them in such a manner that you can bounce from one to the other

[trim estuary]

Can you grapple up or just sideways

[vivid belfry]

Fixed angle

[opaque sigil]

We've only seen a fixed angle, at least

[silver oak]

They’re gonna have to make sure you can’t accidentally strand yourself

[opaque sigil]

That's always a consideration

[vivid belfry]

No they're not

[glossy gazelle]

Strand?

[opaque sigil]

Preventing or reducing accidental softlocks is generally a good idea

[cunning geode]

Silksong is the new strandtype game

[silver oak]

Get to an area by sequence breaking and trapping yourself in said area

[vivid belfry]

In HK it's possible to permanently softlock in ancient basin if you fall down there without mantis claw

[glossy gazelle]

Oh so basically softlocking

[silver oak]

Goddammit

[vivid belfry]

But that's only possible if you break the intended progression, so I don't consider it a design flaw

[trim estuary]

Isn’t that a hardlock then

[opaque sigil]

No

[summer kindle]

no

[vivid belfry]

No, softlock means software

[trim estuary]

Oh

[glossy gazelle]

I mean you can skip stuff in Hollow Knight and not get softlocked

[trim estuary]

I thought it meant you have to restart to fix it

[silver oak]

Can you get there without claw in the first place?

[vivid belfry]

Yes

[glossy gazelle]

Hardlocked is more of “your game literally froze”

[silver oak]

What’s the route

Oh wait I think I see

[vivid belfry]

I think you need to use fireball skip in a few places

[silver oak]

Wait nevermind
Yeah that sounds hard

[opaque sigil]

I mean it seems like the kind of thing that won't happen unless you're doing it with great intent, it's not like a lot of people will accidentally softlock that way

[vivid belfry]

Yeah, so I don't think they need to worry too much about people getting stuck by towering spike balls to skip movement upgrades

[silver oak]

Yeah that’s a thing you do if you want to purposefully get softlocked

[trim estuary]

Aight brb

[silver oak]

Cya in a few hours

Also nice pfp

[trim estuary]

Nice-Cream#4839 made it

[fierce wing]

where do i go? im doing flower quest

[pallid flare]

jump in the acid (#hk-help/#hk-discussion)

[twilit igloo]

the cave up the station

[pallid flare]

otherwise, activate windows

[fierce wing]

owshit wrong chat

[pallid flare]

its okay

[fierce wing]

THE FLOWER DESTROYTED

[twilit igloo]

F

[sweet lotus]

F

[tribal merlin]

F(lower)

[cerulean sable]

i wish silksong is about 60 gb

that means more space == more content

just like cod warzone

[pallid flare]

60 gbs of uncompressed game assets

[odd heron]

It has been so damn long since there has been any information, that I am beginning to forget that there is even a sequel.

[silver oak]

60 gbs of wilbo tweets

[chilly nexus]

tbh yeah, i remember silksong indirectly via remembering this discord chat :p silksong itself does not pop into my mind outside of this conext

[tribal merlin]

I mean there were pretty good and long games that fit onto 1-2 3.5" floppies...

and cyberpunk is 70GB so I dunnoh if disk space really is an indicator for quality

[coarse leaf]

just how big is warzone rn?

[cerulean sable]

around 270 apparently?

[cerulean sable]

yeah my favorite part of Silksong is the part where Hornet drops down after being sung on by the Church Keeper and you have to insert Disk 2 to continue

[coarse leaf]

man seems like infinity ward forgot how to compress files

[still elm]

Ouch

[light dove]

Maybe that's why you start with one health

[tawdry valley]

This is what actually happens; the events of Silksong are Hornets dying brain hallucinating a fake reality

[coarse leaf]

Remember when Leth mentioned October 22 in that Indie Gamer interview this summer? 👀 (I know it was a joke but still)

[still elm]

Silksong’s file size will be 100GB due to uncompressed bug gibberish

[coarse leaf]

omfg

[marsh lodge]

Thus begins zoteboat.
Zote is on his boat in the sea of zote (named after the Invincible, fearless, sensual, etc etc. Zote the mighty). Who falls off the cliff but none other than hornet! Zote catches her in his boat and claims he captured her himself! He then sinks because the impact of hornet hitting the boat caused it to leak and the boat sinks. However, he is saved due to a whale coming by and carrying him and his captured hornet to land safely. Zote then exclaims that if it wasn't for the whale, he would've survived on his own. Thus ends zoteboat, insert disc 3.

[opal geyser]

2021 game of the year award

[glossy gazelle]

How much is original hollow Knight for comparison

[tribal merlin]

9 GB

[glossy gazelle]

Okay 6x times the disc space I think is a bit much

[tribal merlin]

the other 51 GB is Graig's Gardening vid in 4K

[chilly nexus]

SS will be 31GB

[tribal merlin]

I don't think it'll break 20GB

there's no real reason

[nimble radish]

ultra 4k

[tribal merlin]

on switch

[silver oak]

steam deck

[dusk bay]

SS for the quest 2

[nimble radish]

the pixels are all still there you just can't see them

[tribal merlin]

I'd look at average size for big games on switch and add a little for the PC version

[obsidian juniper]

||At the end of the game she wakes up withnout legs||

[summer kindle]

oh no

[obsidian juniper]

Btw hi
How are you all doing?i changed my profile picture

[summer kindle]

hello i rarely talk here

[obsidian juniper]

Well nice to meet you

[summer kindle]

nice to meet you too

god damn

[coarse leaf]

roll credits

[pallid flare]

god damn

this is my 30.000th message

[brittle garnet]

I don't even have 20k messages in this whole server

and I'm here longer than both of you

~~because I don't engage in pointless discussion ~~

because I mainly just lurk

[opaque sigil]

Grover has like 160k

[cunning geode]

what no Silksong does to a mf

[opaque sigil]

I'm sure he'll have plenty to say about SS after it releases

[cunning geode]

not if he’s removed from the premises

[nimble radish]

ban everyone that has ever talked here once silksong releases

[opaque sigil]

More time for silksong

[cunning geode]

ban everyone*

[brittle garnet]

delete the server

smite this earth

[marsh lodge]

All hype should be transferred to some game that no one has heard of

[glossy gazelle]

So will everyone else

[cunning geode]

BTSX EPISODE 3 baybeeeee

[brittle garnet]

jokes on you I'm hiding this channel until I 100% the game

[glossy gazelle]

Same honestly

[nimble radish]

nope people have heard of that one

[cunning geode]

[opaque sigil]

I'm hiding on other servers to talk SS after it releases, not touching this channel

At least not until it cools down a bit

[brittle garnet]

honestly I'm fine with waiting, big DRG update next month and a RoR2 DLC early 2022 will hold me over.

[opaque sigil]

DRG?

[brittle garnet]

Deep Rock Galactic

imagine left 4 dead or Payday but it's Dwarves in Space and you get to mine as well.

very good game, thoroughly recommend

[opaque sigil]

Maybe if I every get into multiplayer games again

[brittle garnet]

it's not PvP, if that's your gripe

[opaque sigil]

Yeah I surmised from the description

[brittle garnet]

it has very fun co-op, there are 4 classes and you kinda need each one to have the easiest time

or rather, each class contributes something important in a mission

[pallid flare]

true

[ocean mulch]

You've got more than me

[pallid flare]

that's not something I should be proud about

[ocean mulch]

I joined in 2019

I think

[pallid flare]

15/3/2020

at 9:22 AM tho i don't know what timezone that is

message gone?

[coarse leaf]

i wonder who has the most

maybe they'll get an early release

[ocean mulch]

Someone who's been here since the beginning and very active always

[coarse leaf]

me

across 19 diff accounts

[pallid flare]

you fool

i have 70 alternative accounts

[coarse leaf]

i have the rest...

[opaque sigil]

ip ban

[brittle garnet]

taco has 176k

[coarse leaf]

Nax is out

[opaque sigil]

nax?

[coarse leaf]

Hearthstone meme

Hi guys, do you know if we have any footage of Bonebottom???

I forgot everything about silksong why am I on this Discord

[opaque sigil]

It's in the trailer and an edge screenshot

[rapid topaz]

OMG Nax out ?

[coarse leaf]

Yes but I can't tell which one is Bonebottom 😔

[nimble steppe]

Huzzah!

[coarse leaf]

i ask myself that everyday

[opaque sigil]

The one with bones

[nimble steppe]

I think I joined very very late 2019

[coarse leaf]

this?

[fallow rock]

guys i found silksong news

[rapid topaz]

I joined mid-late 2018 but was really active since 2020

I just joined for the HK annoucements, at first

[fallow rock]

guys i have a link to the silksong news

[rapid topaz]

send your rickroll already

[opaque sigil]

Or just don't since it isn't going to be funny, whatever it is

[bleak echo]

Wowza I can’t wait to see

[nimble steppe]

Anyone else hoping there will be a couple cities the size of the CoT?

[opaque sigil]

I mean the citadel is probably going to be bigger imo

Well, maybe

[fallow rock]

the link actual didn`t work

[main sage]

whats CoT

[rapid topaz]

City of Tears

[main sage]

OH,forgot

[coarse leaf]

Is this new?

[main sage]

no

[coarse leaf]

nope

[opaque sigil]

Relatively

[main sage]

its from the trailer

[opaque sigil]

It's from Edge

[main sage]

fr?

[opaque sigil]

Updated bg, now there's a bench, Shakra's there

[main sage]

Oh damn,im too dumb to be here

[rapid topaz]

No you're not, it's easy to not know this kind of thing ^^

[main sage]

no,its just that i used to know every little piece of information about silksong,so now i feel like an idiot

[rapid topaz]

Ahhh

I understand so

[main sage]

i hope they will make something similar to grimm in silksong

[opaque sigil]

Similar in what way?

[main sage]

like,another creepy summoning/slenderman

Tall thin mfs always creepy as hell

[coarse leaf]

I made this 👁

I love Bonebottom them no regrets

[stoic path]

Nice

[coarse leaf]

theme**

[main sage]

so..like a fanmade theme?

[coarse leaf]

no ??? its the official theme

[main sage]

tf

[nimble radish]

it's one of the two themes we have

[coarse leaf]

I think trobio is kinda similar

[rapid topaz]

https://youtu.be/e6b-lWhn8pg

[coarse leaf]

How long have you been gone 😅

[nimble radish]

other than the ones from the demo, and we don't really have those officially

[main sage]

idk probably like a year or more

[opaque sigil]

Well, they're official just messy since there're other sounds there

[main sage]

nah,trobbio just cool not creepy

[coarse leaf]

Larkin dropped the themes late 2019 so more

[rapid topaz]

At the beginning I preferred Lace theme but now I think both are equally good, if not Bonebottom better

[main sage]

oh damn,i guess i just forgot or something

[coarse leaf]

I prefer Bonebottom

[rapid topaz]

It is more "listenable again and again"

And that's Lace soundstrack https://youtu.be/zRs58D34OLY

[main sage]

imagine trobbio has a harem

he looks like the type of guy to have one

[nimble radish]

u wot

[deft mango]

silksong bad

[nimble radish]

silksong vlad 🧛

[opaque sigil]

silksong mad

[main sage]

singsolk

[nimble radish]

silksong dad

[rapid topaz]

skillsong's chad

[crimson sentinel]

no ss news day 8183

[main sage]

silk

[crimson sentinel]

i am running low on power

[main sage]

just power the on low

[pallid flare]

it hasn't even been 1000 days

[main sage]

how has there only been 227 days...

no,on the daily silksong news yt channel

[pallid flare]

hello guys, pyro here

23 days until the 1000th day

[main sage]

hello Mf,guys here

[pallid flare]

22 days*

[main sage]

no

[rapid topaz]

This is arauraraura and today..

[pallid flare]

10.11.2021 i think

around that day

[main sage]

ORA

[pallid flare]

just checked, exactly the 10th of November 2021

[pallid flare]

^^^^

[coarse leaf]

[main sage]

wait ,will it fr be 1000 days ?

[opaque sigil]

On November 10

[coarse leaf]

Why

[main sage]

haha,thats the sacred month

[pallid flare]

guys we're almost there!

[rapid topaz]

I wanna laugh so hard if it's actually here. Because it would be.. a bit too early ?

[main sage]

aint no way u just said that

[rapid topaz]

Idk

[main sage]

u stupid as hell fam,its been years

[opaque sigil]

I mean yeah, ig

[main sage]

How exactly would it be early...?

[opaque sigil]

It'd be less than four years of exclusive development

[rapid topaz]

Just an assumption

[opaque sigil]

Barely three, really

[main sage]

3 years is plenty...

[pallid flare]

tbh I am not the one to judge

[opaque sigil]

3 years isn't that long for a team of 3 people to make a game of SS's scale

[main sage]

even so,its not like they started development ONLY after announcing the game

you talking about gta

[coarse leaf]

they seemed to had done a considerable amount before the trailer release though

[opaque sigil]

Not counting from there

[rapid topaz]

I don't think 3 people can make such an ambitious project in 3 years, or they would be mad talented

[opaque sigil]

Did I use the trailer in my math? Come on, at least read my message

[rapid topaz]

Well, they are, but that's not the point

[coarse leaf]

ik, im just saying i dont think it makes sense to count from the release

[main sage]

why wouldnt you,do you start the timer for a speedrun only half way in the speedrun?

[opaque sigil]

SS dev didn't start in February 2019, so you wouldn't reasonably count from February 2019

[nimble radish]

he's being pretty chill

[opaque sigil]

And from the beginning I've said exclusive development, ie development time when they weren't working on HK updates

[main sage]

nah you just dont want silksong

[opaque sigil]

No, which is why I'm not counting from February 2019

[main sage]

didnt even know what exclusive means

[opaque sigil]

Exclusive = to the exclusion of other things

[main sage]

english aint my native

[coarse leaf]

yes but you can't rly know reliably how much they had done before then,

[opaque sigil]

Nor at any point after then

I have never claimed to know at any point how much they had done

[main sage]

they probably had like 5-10% of the game

[coarse leaf]

you assumed they would have been working for about 3 years at the 1000th day, im just saying it could be considerably more

[hollow smelt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/586931790208434203/837753907010732065/there_is_no_news.gif

[opaque sigil]

No, I said there would have been about 3 years of exclusive development

[hollow smelt]

i take it back i was gonna send the big circle silksong gthing but i send it alot

[opaque sigil]

Assuming that they were about done with godmaster a few months after it released

[coarse leaf]

ik, and like i said, my point is that exclusive development doesnt rly mean all that much, given they may have been working on it before

[opaque sigil]

Except it probably wasn't a priority

[main sage]

bro,before they release silksong i want them to make an announcement per day for like a week,saying silksong is 99.3% done,99.4%,99.5%...just for the hype

[opaque sigil]

That's inane

[summer kindle]

after 99.5 is 99.5001

[coarse leaf]

as soon as the kickstarter was funded they knew they would do it tho, they could have been working on it intermittently from back then

[pallid flare]

99.9999998 wait two more years thank you

[opaque sigil]

But not exhaustively

[fallow rock]

and after 5.5.5.5.5.5.5.5.5

[opaque sigil]

Maybe ideas were accumulating or whatever but TC likely didn't sink much time into SS before HK was finished

[fallow rock]

and thats when we get silksong

[coarse leaf]

either way my point is that no date is early tbh we rly dont know, how much time they've invested in it

[random zinc]

if you had a choice, would you guys rather playtest an unfinished version of ss right now or wait for the release?

[opaque sigil]

Wait

[main sage]

basically...a demo

[opaque sigil]

No, an unpolished, buggy, incomplete mess

[random zinc]

yeah but a really long demo

[pallid flare]

i would wait

[opaque sigil]

Even demos are bugtested to a reasonable degree and have some quality control

[random zinc]

i kinda wish the e3 demo was on steam thatd be cool

[main sage]

they would never

[random zinc]

ik haha

[tribal merlin]

the e3 "demo" is only a demo in the sense that people could try out part of the game at that location, not in the sense of a standalone piece of software.
So it'll not be released because it doesn't exist as such.

[opaque sigil]

It also wouldn't serve much of a purpose anyways

[tribal merlin]

yeah it'd be pointless for them to now go "look where we were years ago"

[random zinc]

hey man im just saying i wish i got to play it

[tribal merlin]

stuff prolly got changed/cut since then

[tribal merlin]

no you were saying it'd be cool if it were on steam

[opaque sigil]

And for a (presumably) $15-20 game the whole "oh I would only buy it if I could try it first" mindset doesn't really apply

[random zinc]

sheesh

[tribal merlin]

I mean people preorder games for >$60 so there's no point in saying that

[opaque sigil]

True, but insofar as demos are helpful for marketing they would not be as useful for a cheap game as for a more expensive one

[fallow rock]

meaning in actual value has changdx

[random zinc]

guys its was just a hypothetical ik theyd never do that

[tribal merlin]

A demo would be most fitting for a game where it's not so obvious why it's good, regardless of the price. (but yeah for a more expensive game doubly so)

[hollow smelt]

dataminers

if it wasnt for dataminers we might have had a demo

[opaque sigil]

Also apathy and boredom

[serene chasm]

Also demos dont sell games

[hollow smelt]

apathy is a big word i dont understand

[serene chasm]

meh

[hollow smelt]

simplify please

[opaque sigil]

Apathy is a lack of caring, basically. Or, as curly put it, "meh"

[hollow smelt]

ah

[serene chasm]

fun fact. If you are on PC discord. You can highlight a word and right click to google it. The definition is usually the first thing that pops up

[hollow smelt]

oh thats sick

[opaque sigil]

Huh, that's cool

[burnt topaz]

huh, cool

[summer kindle]

and mobile suck

[fallow rock]

hey guys name all the npc encountered in hollow knight those who survive the infection that you meet

[hollow smelt]

sherma

[opaque sigil]

They won't be in SS

[hollow smelt]

yep