sk-discussion

[severe steeple]

most payed games werent made just for the fun of it, they were made with a return or profit of money spent. The creation of a game is a service that for big games takes an insane amount of money. Its an investment of money and there is a reason you need to pay for it if you dont want to take without permission commiting a crime. Thats not so hard to understand that I need to repeat it endlessly

[sharp slate]

yea its 8.5 hours to do all achievements in hk, i bet silksongs could be shorter

[stark estuary]

Nah Defect washed, maybe Silent

[atomic sparrow]

darn

[long grove]

This discussion is kinda meaningless because there are so many variables. Like... even the law itself isn’t totally fair. Fact is, piracy fluctuates depending on the quality of the service.

[atomic sparrow]

silent time 🤫

[odd hull]

Hmmmm
btw do you play on keyboard and mouse?

[orchid spruce]

yeahh

[real hearth]

i don’t inherently disagree but something i want to ask is if you think developers should be supported/compensated for their work in this way, even if it’s just a license; or if you think pirating should be a bigger thing in of itself

[orchid spruce]

does it suck on keyboard mouse

[neat remnant]

Idk does it suck for you?

[sharp slate]

i guess someone did all achievements in silksong in 11 hours, and is not an official cat now, so... good chance it might be shorter than hk

[odd hull]

No no, k&m it's the intended way

[orchid spruce]

idk i haven't bought it, i'm making up my mind

[sharp slate]

hello leon!

[orchid spruce]

thank goodness

ok i trust your taste

[neat remnant]

Cringe was detected, so i was summoned

[orchid spruce]

if this is your favourite game

i'll choose to believe

[long grove]

ew so cringe

[odd hull]

So much pressure

[severe steeple]

none of it matters, if you dont ablige by the rules set by the creators themselves then you are taking without permission

[real hearth]

honestly this is probably purely due to how quickly u can move across the map in sk compared to hk

[orchid spruce]

[sharp slate]

fair, i was contemplating if sk's all achievement is shorter the hk's all achievement run

[sharp slate]

tbf you need two files for hk, for sk only one

[orchid spruce]

i'll grab momodora moonlight too

[real hearth]

that too

[neat remnant]

Not that one.

[orchid spruce]

i now have 5 metroidvanias in my backlog

[stark estuary]

Right… but equating downloading a game for free with stealing a haircut is just… not how digital goods work. When you pirate a game, you’re not taking the original from anyone, you’re not depriving anyone of a copy, and the developer still has the product they made. Calling it “theft” because they might have made more money if you’d paid is twisting the definition.

The argument that piracy is morally the same as walking out of a salon without paying is just lazy thinking as it ignores the key difference between something scarce and something infinitely reproducible. If you can’t understand something so simple then this isn’t gonna go anywhere

[sharp slate]

sk speedrunning not cringe sad /j

[long grove]

the bible^

[hardy tangle]

Hollow Knight: Silksong

[odd hull]

It's not my favorite game ever. TUNIC takes this title

[opaque sigil]

Digital piracy really isn’t gonna map well onto other forms of goods and services

[neat remnant]

Yes cuz hunters journal

[orchid spruce]

All I've heard from TUNIC is that it's mid, rip

[neat remnant]

[stark estuary]

Almost like it’s… not theft

[odd hull]

It's peak fiction. Everyone else is wrong

[orchid spruce]

But that same group of people glaze Silksong, so TUNIC might be great

[stark estuary]

You’re trying to equate it to something it just isn’t by definition

[sharp slate]

hmmm interesting, hunters journal speedrun time to test, if only i could concentrate on a speedrun for more than 2 hours

[orchid spruce]

I'll wishlist it and wait for a sale

[fringe jungle]

I guess

[odd hull]

lmaooo

[hardy tangle]

buzzword

[opaque sigil]

Conversationally I don’t think calling it theft is totally infelicitous

[real hearth]

i think you need to phrase this differently, i get ur point but you’re not directly depriving the developer of something, it’s not like a commission or something it’s a massly consumed product that doesn’t deplete even after you consume it, it’s like equivalent to going to costco with your friend and using their membership to shop for yourself

[hardy tangle]

steam users when a game is discounted by 40% and not 95%

[severe steeple]

It was a exaggerated comparison I made because I thought you wanted buying to mean getting some sort of physical object. I never meant to claim that its the same just that both things are a service,

[sharp slate]

why my eyes

[stark estuary]

I mean it is if you don’t understand the distinction

[neat remnant]

After realizing the number of enemies i had to fill during first gameplay, ive practically decided to drop that achivement altogether

[rose trail]

piracy is morally subjective

[pulsar dagger]

I got to play this game on OLED finally. WOW! Can’t believe it gets even better

[opaque sigil]

Ok but one service requires somebody to spend time specifically tending to a person and one service uh doesn’t

[rose trail]

is this THE leon mc

[sharp slate]

fair, it took me some time, but it wasnt as bad as hk's at least, still a little too much

[rose trail]

i mean hk i'm stupid sorry

[opaque sigil]

It’s not a distinction that’s always relevant

[neat remnant]

Nahhh, probably not

[long grove]

Tunic feels like a fox version of Zelda, right?

[stark estuary]

It is relevant if your argument is that piracy is immoral because it deprives the developer of their product

[odd hull]

Something like that, yes

[opaque sigil]

The same way you would conversationally say you own a game on steam even with the understanding that’s not technically what’s happening

[real hearth]

i would’ve dropped it if you didn’t get a collectible for it

[severe steeple]

yes they are different but not in a way where not paying for the latter is any sort of justifiable unless under certain circumstances (like having no money)

[real hearth]

collectibles are op

[stark estuary]

Sure but that’s clearly not applicable here

[long grove]

then... added to my wishlist

[orchid spruce]

Don't wake me up to the Steamlord's doings. I sold my soul to them, I can't wake up now.

[stark estuary]

This person genuinely thinks piracy and theft are comparable

[orchid spruce]

[opaque sigil]

I mean you can compare whatever you want

At the end of the day it’s fundamentally a flawed perspective to view every instance of piracy as a lost sale

[severe steeple]

well they have many overlaps

[opaque sigil]

The real hot convo is that pirating indie games is based actually

[sharp slate]

yea i think every instance is too far, im honestly not sure what % would even be sales, but it would be some

[odd hull]

yeeey
It has a bunch of mysteries and crazy puzzles, hope you like it!

[stark estuary]

Yeah but this channel isn’t ready for that

[real hearth]

Really

[orchid spruce]

[atomic sparrow]

is there a feasible way to calculate it even

[rose trail]

bro

[real hearth]

censorship

[stark estuary]

Something something indies rely more on word of mouth so pirating an indie game is beneficial actually

[fringe jungle]

what were you trying to say

[opaque sigil]

You’d have a hard time doing it

[odd hull]

Also, did you bought Rusted Moss or was just deciding

[orchid spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/anya-anya-forger-spy-x-family-brain-fried-gif-245623370932004073

[real hearth]

can we compare who has more “hornlike”(definitely what i was trying to say at first i never said anything else) horns between hornet and those rhinogrund guys

[sharp slate]

not really, need some type of survey shit, even then not likely to get good results tbh

[opaque sigil]

I’ve on multiple occasions pirated a game I wasn’t confident enough I’d like to actually buy it only to like it enough to then buy it and also turn multiple other people onto it

[orchid spruce]

i'm clicking the Purchase button but contemplating my life choices

[severe steeple]

just be gratefull that other people respecting laws is the main reason police arent cracking down on piracy and stop trying to justify it for yourself with flawed logic

[real hearth]

i said a word that starts with h that is partially contained at the start of “hornet”

[stark estuary]

What are you talking about

[real hearth]

censorship

[opaque sigil]

That’s not the reason they aren’t cracking down they aren’t cracking down because that’s basically impossible

[odd hull]

LMAO

[stark estuary]

Even if everyone started pirating shit tomorrow what would the police do bruh 😭

[severe steeple]

obviously not fully but if they tried you wouldnt be seeing piracy just readily available everywhere

[fringe jungle]

bruh

[opaque sigil]

Yes you would

Shit can pop up way faster than takedown requests

[real hearth]

tbf i get why it’s blocked but that pmo 😭

[atomic sparrow]

yo, the police here. I will give you a ban thats what.

[fringe jungle]

lmao yeah I get it

[stark estuary]

Piracy is always going to be readily available because digital goods are freely and infinitely reproducible and nothing on the Internet ever stays gone

[severe steeple]

if everyone was doing it then there would be bigger and more enforced laws then currently thats all im fucking saying

[stark estuary]

No

[fringe jungle]

No

[stark estuary]

You can’t enforce it

You don’t know how any of this works do you

[opaque sigil]

I got some news for you, a lot of people do it and in many places it’s the only realistic option

[orchid spruce]

[stark estuary]

You know streaming shows or sports or whatever is also the same thing right

[sharp slate]

You can enforce it to a degree, there are people that get in trouble for distrubution of pirated software you are aware right?

obviously its still gonna show up, but doesnt mean people dont get punished

[opaque sigil]

Sure but only to a degree

[sharp slate]

just not the majority

[long grove]

stop that rn

[sharp slate]

yea

[opaque sigil]

And that’s people distributing not people pirating

[orchid spruce]

This Ash guy here just said outright, he can buy games but he just chooses to pirate it. Is that a cause worth defending? Just pirate if you can't buy it or if you need a "demo", but this guy is just a jerk.

[sharp slate]

Defintely fair

[stark estuary]

To get into trouble for distributing it you’d have to be running a whole operation and likely profiting from it

[opaque sigil]

Can you link the message

[sharp slate]

its way up in the convo if i can find it

[orchid spruce]

Ughhh, I'll try

[shadow belfry]

two ash guys

[sharp slate]

i can vouch for towel so they dont need to search

im the cool ash, the original

[severe steeple]

You would be surprised with how much control the goverment can have over the internet if piracy became a real threat

[shadow belfry]

the original ashwalker

[stark estuary]

#sk-discussion message

[orchid spruce]

this ash is cool

[long grove]

cool?

[opaque sigil]

Oh free stuff is based

[sharp slate]

yea... sure...

[orchid spruce]

[severe steeple]

Can somebody please just explain whats so hard to understand about video games being an investment that relies on the vast majority of people NOT pirating it. Shit would not exist without it so thats why im saying you should be gratefull if you pirate

[opaque sigil]

That’s how media industries work yup

[severe steeple]

spirit guy tries to tell me its not because copying games is free... seems to not understand any game development

[opaque sigil]

See the thing is piracy is actually kind of inconvenient

People who can afford to buy media usually will

[long grove]

stop that talk rn before I take one of ur 9 lives

[orchid spruce]

You genuinely think pirating even when you can buy it whenever whenever, is based?

[opaque sigil]

But people who don’t aren’t causing any harm

[stark estuary]

I mean yeah that’s pmuch it

[orchid spruce]

[opaque sigil]

I just don’t think it’s a big deal

[orchid spruce]

Cutting line isn't a big deal, but it's a jerk move

[sharp slate]

I honestly think its getting less common over time

[severe steeple]

people who can but dont are causing harm its just not enough to care

[opaque sigil]

Ok but it’s a jerk move because it puts people back in line causing harm

[opaque sigil]

Can and would aren’t the same thing

[stark estuary]

That’s assuming that the people who pirate would buy the game otherwise

Also what if I pirate a game and buy it later when I wouldn’t have bought it otherwise, what if I pirate a game don’t buy it but tell two friends who do end up buying it

[opaque sigil]

If people are willing to pay they should

[orchid spruce]

If the option wasn't available, more would buy So some would have bought if pirating wasn't an option

[stark estuary]

In those instances the developer actually benefits

[severe steeple]

theres tons of people that would

[stark estuary]

You don’t know that

[opaque sigil]

The numbers game isn’t just a ‘are there people in this category’ it’s ’is this a significant category’

[shadow belfry]

i mean if they are friends with you it seems more likely that they'll pirate it as well

[severe steeple]

more people would buy if piracy wasnt an option, say kids who are too scared to ask their parents to buy the game

[opaque sigil]

Not really how it works

[stark estuary]

Not how it works but also it is still in the developer’s interests for a bunch of people who never would have heard of let alone bought the game to pirate it and tell more people about it since chances are someone does buy it

[opaque sigil]

If you pirate an indie game and do free marketing for them you’ve contributed more to that game than just not playing in the first place

[shadow belfry]

oh, that's true

[atomic sparrow]

Tammo tell me about a game I might go buy it

[opaque sigil]

Obviously you individually aren’t doing anything too significant but more people playing means more word of mouth

[shadow belfry]

i have no idea whos on which side in this discussion anymore

[fringe jungle]

that hardly matters anyway

[stark estuary]

You don’t have to take a side piracy in and of itself is just neutral

[sharp slate]

tbh though as well, i feel like people are actively normalizing piracy

[opaque sigil]

Echo point nova

[fading rose]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1344840104778141816/1386076923842527362/resize.gif

[sharp slate]

if you actively advertise piracy as beneficial more people will do it lmfao

[orchid spruce]

smh, whatever

[severe steeple]

I totally understand and see that but the possibility of somebody maybe doing something still simply is not enough to truly justify it if they were reasonably capable to buy the game beforehand.

[opaque sigil]

Even if this is true the gaming industry is expanding vastly it’s not gonna offset that

[shadow belfry]

that makes me wonder whats the % of people who buy versus pirate

[orchid spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/milk-and-mocha-bear-pissed-cute-annoyed-bear-gif-15620912

[shadow belfry]

probably very different for every game

[stark estuary]

I mean if more people do it it is beneficial for the reasons explained do you seriously think the collective market is just going to decide they’re not going to buy games anymore at some point

[severe steeple]

Im not saying anything else I dont know why this conversation is still going

[odd hull]

I love these gifs

[stark estuary]

People who are willing to pay will do so irrespective of whether or not piracy exists as an option and vice versa

[fringe jungle]

this would depend on what game we're talking about but in general I think more people buy than pirate

[fading rose]

support games if you can but pirate if you cant afford them or just not sure about the quality

[opaque sigil]

Also hyperfixating on the people who would buy but instead don’t is, again, kind of a weird framing when it’s very often an accessibility tool by lowering the bar for entry

[fringe jungle]

its still going because this is an interesting discussion

[sharp slate]

or just support games you can afford...

[orchid spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/kot-cat-plaża-beach-woda-gif-5025613992274508130

[shadow belfry]

well yeah but i'm wondering if its like a 60:40 or a 90:10 split between buying and pirating uk

[sharp slate]

people are so drawn in by i have to play everything now adays

[stark estuary]

Can afford and willing to pay are different things

[opaque sigil]

Can afford and wants to take that risk on are different things

[shadow belfry]

i'm just able to afford games so i pay

[fading rose]

thats like what i said kinda

[odd hull]

They're so alone noooo

[sharp slate]

look at reviews, evaulate the game from trailors images other people

[shadow belfry]

dunno in what circumstance i would pirate a game

certainly pirate other non video game software but idk about games

[sharp slate]

you should be able to determine most of the time if its a good game if you put in a TINY bit of effort

[opaque sigil]

Ok but you recognize that the option to do something way more efficient is right there right

[crimson ember]

WHY OS SHELL SATCHEL ONLY IN STEEL SOUL

[fringe jungle]

lol

[opaque sigil]

It’s just not that big a deal and it’s silly how much people try to moralize it either way

[old compass]

hey @sharp slate you might be interested in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzOF-3cpqOk

[opaque sigil]

You should buy games if you can but it’s not that big a deal if you don’t

[sharp slate]

its more efficient yes, i honestly dont believe the people that say "I buy the game if its good" because i have seen the opposite so much

[opaque sigil]

I’m sure some people who say that don’t buy

[atomic sparrow]

I bought silksong because I HATE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sharp slate]

Idk i just prefer to do things by the book, it makes more sense to me that im not actively participating and promoting the problem

[orchid spruce]

Pirating the game to try it out if you're unsure is fine. You wouldn't play it otherwise. But this Ash (the uncool one) will pirate literally everything even if he can and is sure it's a masterpiece and I still can't see how that's fine

[stark estuary]

fr

People who pirate don’t really care and neither should you

[orchid spruce]

I pirate

[opaque sigil]

You can construct all sorts of scenarios where piracy isn’t great but that’s not necessarily an accurate framing of the practice in general man idk what to say

[sharp slate]

ill have to take a look in abit

[sharp slate]

im just sick of people actively advertising it out loud

and promoting it

[stark estuary]

Piracy is the reason this heart still beats

[fringe jungle]

its too complicated of a thing to try and frame as black and white

[long grove]

what did u just say huh?

[atomic sparrow]

take away piracy and what are you?

[opaque sigil]

You shouldn’t just tell people to do it unless there’s some clear lack of ability I agree

[sharp slate]

I'm just sick of most of all the entitlement and the consumer culture of people

[odd hull]

Me too

[severe steeple]

exactly. I only ever care if people try to justify it in all cases

[stark estuary]

Nobody is telling anyone to do it what are you even on about

Why are you making up a bunch of hypothetical scenarios where piracy is bad

[sharp slate]

for demos i wont jump on people for, but dont actively promote it either imo

[opaque sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-souls-does-a-lot-of-damage-backstab-its-easy-damage-gif-12503713432325953946

[stark estuary]

Free

[sharp slate]

Implying that piracy is harmless in itself is a way of promoting it

[atomic sparrow]

because pirates killed my grandma ok?!

[supple summit]

why is lace

[orchid spruce]

If the scenario of "wanting to play, know it is good, can pay, still pirate" is not one of the bad scenarios, I can't tell what is bad

[opaque sigil]

I mean not really

[sharp slate]

kid sees, damn me getting this game for free isnt bad, im gonna do it

[odd hull]

Why is she

[opaque sigil]

Buying stuff is more convenient and safer (not that piracy is especially dangerous if you know where to look but there’s some risk)

[ornate perch]

Why yall talking about piracy

[stark estuary]

folk

[orchid spruce]

And this Ash (the uncool one) guy is the walking person of this scenario

[supple summit]

i thought lace was a guy

[fringe jungle]

interesting topic

[atomic sparrow]

distant cousin

[ornate perch]

Why yall talking about piracy

[fading rose]

https://tenor.com/view/konosuba-darkness-bds-hmm-shy-gif-14064144

[sharp slate]

kids are gonna do it anyway, kids are stupid, i was stupid at the time for downloading shit, not pirating but mods ect

[long grove]

for 1h...

[orchid spruce]

So why are you defending him unless you defend this scenario of piracy

[fading rose]

holy silence bro

[stark estuary]

What scenario of piracy what are we even talking about 🥀

[long grove]

I told ya about the cat

[orchid spruce]

Want to play, know it's good, can pay, still pirate

[stark estuary]

I mean yeah that’s still not a scenario where piracy is bad

[supple summit]

wait lace is a woman?

[fringe jungle]

yeah

[fading rose]

sent it like 10 min ago btw

[cobalt pilot]

What seems to be the problem

[sharp slate]

she is indeed a she

[orchid spruce]

Tammo fought for this hill

[old compass]

PIRACY IS PIRACY- (jk)

[orchid spruce]

That's disappointing

[icy crow]

One mod ping to blow this topic up

[orchid spruce]

Whatever, me play games, bye

[fading rose]

guys moderators are here

[stark estuary]

Tammo didn’t say that he said that people willing to pay should not that people able to pay should

[long grove]

Believe me, that’s been running for 1 hour

[atomic sparrow]

I'm sure mods have seen it countless times

[ornate perch]

Ok back to topic should I get the fleas first or get all the tools in my steel soul?

[opaque sigil]

Literally didn’t

[sharp slate]

tbh it didnt even break the rules technically of the server

because servers have such a lienent view on piracy

[atomic sparrow]

doesn't egg of flealia require all fleas anyways

[opaque sigil]

You can’t post links or tell people to do it

[fading rose]

pretty sure its against discord tos lmao

[old compass]

fleas

[sharp slate]

to distrube thats it to my knowledge

[fringe jungle]

which sounds fair to me

[long grove]

show them @cobalt pilot

[stark estuary]

Discussing piracy isn’t rulebreaking but providing people with the means to do so is

[fading rose]

oh

[graceful oyster]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/610290501106794498/975970320760586240/caption-16.gif

[cobalt pilot]

Im killingeveryone with the wrong opinion

[opaque sigil]

That’s everyone

[inland sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/howyy-gif-14677769772756874928

[atomic sparrow]

no my opinion is always right

[fringe jungle]

aw man

[opaque sigil]

Wow I didn’t know we agreed on everything

[cobalt pilot]

Pro-Piracy? Anti-Piracy? Some of you are going to die tonight.

[leaden delta]

what r mods gonna do when i tell people to pirate fnaf games bc scott sucks ass

[atomic sparrow]

c'mon y'know me I always agree with you in #sk-lore

[sharp slate]

Honestly me, so i dont have to interact with people online with these convos

[stark estuary]

I’m always right

[versed pollen]

I would call myself a professional pirate yea

[atomic sparrow]

yar

[cobalt pilot]

You never have to do anything

[opaque sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/risada-risada-meme-gif-1808894066457451256

[fringe jungle]

I been sailing seas for a long time

[cobalt pilot]

Your life is yours to make of it what you will

[long grove]

a philosopher once said "I don’t think that whoever wins or loses... neither the winner nor the loser... will actually win or lose. Everyone will lose"

[fringe jungle]

up the jacob's ladder its a long climb

yaahhrr

[odd hull]

lol

[cobalt pilot]

Or they will all win

[versed pollen]

A famous philosopher once said a delayed game is forever bad but a rushed game is always delayed

[cobalt pilot]

It depends on if you lose or win the argument

[supple summit]

sherma was a guy so it made sense sort of

[ornate perch]

Alr all of this is Yusaki002’s fault

[cobalt pilot]

Beautiful ♥️

[odd hull]

not her, bro. not her

[stark estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/-gif-7240636

[rocky jolt]

a rushed game comes out now which is better

[long grove]

oh shees

[sharp slate]

Neat fight tbh, sliding across the floor attack i was curious on the dodge, makes sense you go all the way to the side

[crimson ember]

silksong modders need to make more skins for hornet PLEASSEEE

[sharp slate]

dont think i would ever do a parry challenge, doesnt seem fun to me, but cool someone else did it, unique way to play

[fringe jungle]

I lowkey couldn't tell if shakra was a guy or a gal for the first couple hours playing lol

[atomic sparrow]

its gonna take a while theres a lot of hornet sprites 💔

[supple summit]

bushanka

[cobalt pilot]

Nine sols is a parry challenge

[harsh yarrow]

that is not easy, Hornet has litterally 2000 sprites

[clear fulcrum]

pretty sure she has a male va right?

[sharp slate]

yea but its designed for that, hk/sk parry kinda jank well... hk parry jank

[cobalt pilot]

Yeah

[fringe jungle]

I don't remember

[clear fulcrum]

the silk ability or the needle parry

[sharp slate]

needle parry

[atomic sparrow]

shakra? no

[cobalt pilot]

Theyre fun I'm sure but not necessary

[odd hull]

Hmm at which point you're in the game?

[clear fulcrum]

does it even damage the boss

[atomic sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA7Id7lff6E

[fringe jungle]

wouldn't be the only instance of the va making me confused on the character gender in this game

[cobalt pilot]

I appreciate that TC tried to actually make it more relevant in SK by attaching a silk skill to it

[fringe jungle]

not that this is a bad thing honestly

[clear fulcrum]

holy moly nuu and last judge?

[supple summit]

like 92%

[rose trail]

also i've seen pharloom called one kingdom, but verdania, coral gorge (which ruled over half of pharloom at some point) and possibly the skarr kingdom are there. i'm a HUGE, HUGE history nerd and I was wondering how the hell does this work? Is pharloom an extremely unstable Holy Roman Empire clone?

[atomic sparrow]

yes

[ornate perch]

The Last Judge impression and Nuu surprised me because of the range she has

[sharp slate]

no, but its in reference to this video posted above https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzOF-3cpqOk

[cobalt pilot]

It turns out that she voiced every character but she's very humble

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but like the parry is skillfull and it all it would be much more interesting if you actually got rewarded for it

[odd hull]

Ohh, good luck with the rest!

[fringe jungle]

good va's have a surprising amount of range

[sharp slate]

fair, tbh in hk/sk it seems to happen alot on accident as well

[ornate perch]

Yeah

[supple summit]

thanks, ive just been exploring cuz idk how to get rest

[fringe jungle]

it's always cool to see someone do voice acting for completely different characters

[long grove]

clearly Radiance is in her room

[cobalt pilot]

I like it

I think it adds a kind of consistency to the world if you know what I mean

Having only a few VAs who just have really good range

[ornate perch]

So ranged it voices the Grand Reeds asw! /j ik its just last judge pitch lowered

[cobalt pilot]

Or maybe it's the way they perform each role

And also the bug language

[fringe jungle]

that's all you really need tbh

[cobalt pilot]

Perchance

[orchid spruce]

@odd hull

the Hollow Knight VC

[odd hull]

Joined already

[rocky jolt]

hollow knight fans or something

[rose trail]

also i've seen pharloom called one kingdom, but verdania, coral gorge (which ruled over half of pharloom at some point) and possibly the skarr kingdom are there. i'm a HUGE, HUGE history nerd and I was wondering how the hell does this work? Is pharloom an extremely unstable Holy Roman Empire clone? is it automonous states? if so there should be more considering the cultures. I mean the empires are prolly like 4x larger than we see cuz of the 3d layer we can't explore, but i'm just wondering how this whole thing works. i've noticed it runs similarly to feudal japan

[rose trail]

"ahhahahah flukemarm hot hahahaha 😂😂😂😂"

[long grove]

sea of sorrow tomorrow btw

[rocky jolt]

Primal Aspid

[supple summit]

who is christopher larkin and why is he so goated

[rocky jolt]

also holy roman empire mentioned

[fringe jungle]

literally every fandom once it gets big enough

[cobalt pilot]

Definitely inspired by the byzantine empire I think

I am rusty on that history

I never knew much of it to begin with

[clear fulcrum]

its actually insane how much better silksongs ost is than HK

[supple summit]

guys i thjnk sea of sorrow might have cats and mosquitoes and walruses

[clear fulcrum]

is there gonna be a sea

[inland sparrow]

can they have seals?

[cobalt pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/larva-gif-24220061

[clear fulcrum]

just say you hate HK atp 😭

[buoyant urchin]

I came for the monthly check
Any sea of sorrow news mighty fans

[buoyant urchin]

I see a kit talking about rice that has melted

[inland sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/seal-seals-seal-of-approval-yo-chan-flying-gif-15720353218705401069

[cobalt pilot]

Who is Matthew griffin

[old compass]

public association

and marketing

[cobalt pilot]

Epic pfp

[rose trail]

i thought it was feudal japan cuz of the military legions dividing parts and the whole military honor thing and allat.

[old compass]

thanks

[cobalt pilot]

Where's it from

[rocky jolt]

the guy in silksong credits

[long grove]

next month he'll tell the same.. and I'll believe him

[buoyant urchin]

Thank you kit
Imma go steal kobodle and kill him now
You were a mighty contestant
To the bed I go

[cobalt pilot]

I don't know anything about feudal Japan so I will take your word for it

[old compass]

from a website that isn't a western website that you need an account to view

[cobalt pilot]

That sounds similar though yeah

They probably did a little of this and a little of that in terms of historical inspo

[rocky jolt]

dont do that to jschlatt

[rose trail]

breh

[cobalt pilot]

Breh

[rose trail]

christopher larpin 😭

[rose trail]

🙂

[buoyant urchin]

Jschlatt is nothing when the scrap ball is gone

[crisp heron]

im spoopy

[inland sparrow]

cool

[rocky jolt]

you do know jschlatt was in England when the queen died right

[rose trail]

Actually, on the topic of HK, the hive and fungal wastes had it's own civilization, functions and people. did the pale king just leave them?

[crisp heron]

so was i but luckily people havent suspected anything

[old compass]

the mushrooms were actually part of hallownest

they accepted the pk rule while hive stayed independent

[rose trail]

oh

[cobalt pilot]

Wonder what the story of the hive and Hallowndst was

Like did he try to take them over

[rose trail]

hive could have been automonous

[rocky jolt]

thats not the only thing jschlatt did tho

[crisp heron]

did he also

[rocky jolt]

he was also in utah when charlie died

[cobalt pilot]

And they were just better at defending their land than the mantises so he didn't even try a deal

[crisp heron]

schaltt schlatt

[old compass]

anyways if silksong had another consumable tool like flea brew what would it be

[crisp heron]

dude did he kill all of us

[crisp heron]

shakra diarrhea please

[rocky jolt]

jschlatt is behind so many things. its unbelievable that he still has a career

[old compass]

can we be a bit serious

[crisp heron]

i am serious

[buoyant urchin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1501367581913649253/1501375626509291530/attachment.gif?ex=6a0baa83&is=6a0a5903&hm=5d10ab2c3e2c42d5d696cd11a3facc7ff69550f4fc3a3ed7d8eddeefa4e0f665&

[old compass]

can I crucify you then?

[fathom schooner]

Nectar glass

[cobalt pilot]

Can we just leave the server atp 😭

[crisp heron]

I'd dislike that

[fathom schooner]

Consumable that gives you some silk

Thats really the only thing left i can think of since we dont really see much else thats "edible"

[crisp heron]

comsumable that deals 3 masks of damage BUT you also gain a 20% speed nerf for 3 seconds

[fathom schooner]

So eating a sting shard

[crisp heron]

pretty much

[old compass]

lol

[crisp heron]

lolcal

[old compass]

💔

[pliant yacht]

hot take, i hate trobbio with a fiery passion

[fathom schooner]

That take is ice cold

[clear fulcrum]

yeah he’s one of the worst bosses

[solar eagle]

whaat

[pliant yacht]

not as an enemy, i just hate him

[clear fulcrum]

tormented trobbio is even worse lol

[fathom schooner]

Emo theater kid with a massive pyrotechnics budget should die horribly and painfully

Im more annoyed i DIDN'T get to literally cut his wings off

[pliant yacht]

yeah ive done both fights i just find him so annoying as a character

[real leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/a-true-skonger-hornet-silksong-silkpost-animal-instinct-gif-2410519712820608891

[fathom schooner]

Annoying floating butterfly thats somehow a tornado while also having enough bombs to take over a small country

[rocky jolt]

well duh. if your passion is fiery then surely its gonna be a hot take

[clear fulcrum]

his character is really cool i just wish that the fight did him justice

[pliant yacht]

when i was doing the fight for the first time my friend just called all his attacks
Gay tornado
Gay bomb
Gay dash
etc
Not my names btw

[pliant yacht]

i dont know what it is but something about him ignites a fiery burn in my soul

[solar eagle]

your gf isnt funny

[pliant yacht]

gf?

[solar eagle]

wait

[supple summit]

hot take: karmelita is a good boss

[solar eagle]

😭i read it as my girlfriend

then your friend isnt funny

[pliant yacht]

LITERALLY MY FAV BOSS AND CHARACTER

[solar eagle]

wdym hot take

[long grove]

bruh

[pliant yacht]

they dont think they mean it in an offensive way
thats just lowkey their first thought on it

[supple summit]

some people dont like karmelita

[pliant yacht]

kill them

[lavish stratus]

The only good Act 3 boss.

[clear fulcrum]

is this sarcasm

[pliant yacht]

okay first sinner was really fun tho

[long grove]

Mid boss btw

[clear fulcrum]

TRUTH NUKE

[lavish stratus]

That's an Act 2.

[clear fulcrum]

thats act 2

[rocky jolt]

karmelita is not better than pure vessel purely because of her stupid backstepping

[clear fulcrum]

you have clawline lol

[pliant yacht]

oh
lowkey havent fought bro in awhile

[rocky jolt]

fuck is that gonna do

[clear fulcrum]

if you struggle with horizontal movement in this game thats on you

[clear fulcrum]

you get two free hits and get to be right next to the boss for zero silk

[pliant yacht]

is this ragebait?
thinking cat

[rocky jolt]

thats not the issue she backsteps into you

[lavish stratus]

Pure Vessel is better than every boss in Silksong, yes.

[solar eagle]

do you guys even like this game at all

[clear fulcrum]

what are you talking about?? 😭

[rocky jolt]

obviously

[pliant yacht]

yeah

[lavish stratus]

It's okay.

[clear fulcrum]

karmelita is better but he clears every other boss

[clear fulcrum]

i love act 2!

[lavish stratus]

Karmelita is not better.

[pliant yacht]

i think you mean the most peak game ever made
in my humble opinion

[rocky jolt]

im using the wrong word its just repositioning

[pliant yacht]

why has everyone appeared all of a sudden

[vivid belfry]

I think lost lace and karmelita are both better than PV but I'm sure part of that is recency bias and another part is just liking silksong's systems more

[tired depot]

Chat think about this: Reaper + Architect crest= tool spam

[vivid belfry]

actually I forgot Lace 2 exists so she's also there

[clear fulcrum]

she is but it’s okay if you don’t see that yet, regardless she is a base game boss and i guarantee her godhome version will be unanimously better

[long grove]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1ngiwj8/silksong_boss_tier_list/ tier A-

[lavish stratus]

If you ignore the badly written story, the character assassination, the awful final boss, red tools, shell shards, poor exploration, Act 3.

[clear fulcrum]

lace 2 and lost lace as good bosses 😭

[rocky jolt]

i actually really like refighting groal

[vivid belfry]

dude everybody loves Lace 2

[clear fulcrum]

don’t forget act 1

[lavish stratus]

Lace 2 is fine, Lost Lace is abysmal.

[clear fulcrum]

if you dislike lost lace you have to dislike lace 2 lol

[lavish stratus]

Probably why she's fought in the Abyss.

[vivid belfry]

no not really

[clear fulcrum]

he’s fun but khan is cooler

[pliant yacht]

to be fair hollow knights supposed final boss sucked, and then we discovered the real final boss
i get the feeling the same thing will happen

[solar eagle]

wdym with character assassination

[rocky jolt]

khann is lame

[clear fulcrum]

they have all of the same problems, the only difference is in difficulty

[lavish stratus]

Hornet killing people.

[vivid belfry]

people who dislike Lost Lace usually do so because of her projectiles which are unique to the third fight

[pliant yacht]

also id argue the exploration is some of the best in any game

[harsh yarrow]

Groal, Skull Tyrant, and Savage Beast Fly being so low is wrong

[lavish stratus]

The Hollow Knight and Radiance are both better than Silksong's final bosses.

[pliant yacht]

i thought it were fun

[lavish stratus]

And Lost Lace is the true final boss. She's bad.

[solar eagle]

i had so much fun while fighting lost lace

[vivid belfry]

yeah me too

[lavish stratus]

Ragebait

[pliant yacht]

because we havent seen silksongs true final bosses yet

[clear fulcrum]

do people genuinely dislike her JUST because of those

[vivid belfry]

pretty much yeah

[lavish stratus]

Yes we have, it's Lost Lace.

[clear fulcrum]

that’s an insane skill issue

[vivid belfry]

what the fuck do you mean skill issue

[rocky jolt]

what more could you want from lost lace

[clear fulcrum]

the projectiles arent even difficult

[long grove]

It kind of aged like milk

[lavish stratus]

Why are you defending Lost Lace now

[clear fulcrum]

like if you dislike lost lace ONLY because of the projectiles then thats on you

[harsh yarrow]

Badly

[pliant yacht]

we going back and forth lets just agree to disagree

[clear fulcrum]

because her problems extend way past some mid projectiles

[long grove]

especially groal

[vivid belfry]

improve the clarity of overlapping tentacles, move the silk strings to the background, and speed up or intensify the wave attacks

that's it

it's got problems but they're small

[harsh yarrow]

I like Lost Lace, mostly for its story beats but its not a bad fight IMO

[pliant yacht]

honestly i thought it was a really fun and investing fight
i had an entire crowd watch me beat it at school 😭

[lavish stratus]

What story beats?

[rocky jolt]

i never really had problems with her attacks overlapping or blending in with the background

[lavish stratus]

Lace completely derails the narrative.

[harsh yarrow]

That you rescue Lace from the Void, and then the Knight saves you, in a bit of repayment for helping them kill the Radience

[clear fulcrum]

thats kinda cool actualyl

[harsh yarrow]

I really like that

[clear fulcrum]

void does actually

[lavish stratus]

Which happened because of Lace.

[harsh yarrow]

The inclusion of Void is fine

[pliant yacht]

the ending was so peak

[clear fulcrum]

????

[harsh yarrow]

I dont get why everyone hates it so much

[rocky jolt]

snail shamans actually

[vivid belfry]

see it's fine to like these plot beats on surface level but I actually think there's pretty strong thematic symbolism here

[pliant yacht]

...?

[clear fulcrum]

it’s just fan service that creates a situation for you to fight lace one more time lol

[lavish stratus]

If Lace hadn't interfered, Hornet would've broken free on her own and Grand Mother Silk would've died. Lace just messed everything up.

[harsh yarrow]

Its a Hollow Knight game, are we shocked it included a big old reference to the first game?

[vivid belfry]

Lost Lace as a fight is a metaphor for preventing a suicide

[clear fulcrum]

how would have hornet broken free

[pliant yacht]

lace was a victim of it

[solar eagle]

i don’t get why hornet had to kill green prince, i found it kinda forced

[clear fulcrum]

yeah when none of the game prior has anything HK related 😭

[harsh yarrow]

Just ignore that it very much does...

[lavish stratus]

I really don't care about her.

[clear fulcrum]

you can say that it’s not jarring, but saying that it actually helps the narrative is weird

[rocky jolt]

i think prince was fine with that happening

[clear fulcrum]

hornet references it because it parallels pharloom, but what else is there?

[lavish stratus]

Complete character assassination.

[pliant yacht]

yeah its a tragic story, characters will die

[harsh yarrow]

Hivesteel Needle, Hornet explictly referencing the Vessels when talking to Lace after Lace 2

[lavish stratus]

At the hands of the protagonist, it's bad writing.

[vivid belfry]

skill issue

[pliant yacht]

a flawed protagonist is an accurate one

[old compass]

well hornet WAS there to console him but for why she killed him at the end it's not really stated, I mean if green prince doesn't take your consolance you can always just leave the memory

[clear fulcrum]

Hornets needle that is literally from the first game isn’t some big hallownest reference, it barely affects the story 😭

[lavish stratus]

Not when it's out of character and makes her completely unsympathetic.

[long grove]

accurate HK

[lavish stratus]

The Knight never killed any innocent people.

[harsh yarrow]

...menderbug

[twin summit]

what no sea of sorrow does to someone

[clear fulcrum]

is grimm not innocent

[harsh yarrow]

Grimm is a good point

[lavish stratus]

He leads a cult that feeds on dying kingdoms.

[pliant yacht]

theres a list of people lil ghost killed

[harsh yarrow]

wait, no, thats not

[lavish stratus]

Literally an Easter Egg that canonically happens on accident

[clear fulcrum]

everyone willingly joins the cult and they dont hurt the kingdoms in any way

[harsh yarrow]

Grimm has alot of blood on his hands, most of the Dream Ghosts arent bad, yet we kill them anyways

though I guess you can logic in by them already being dead

[rocky jolt]

animals eat other animals dying corpses all the time

[lavish stratus]

The Dream Ghosts are already dead

[opaque sigil]

Grimm doesn’t really die and literally wants the knight to fight him to do the ritual

[solar eagle]

yes she just started to fight without any reasonable explanation to me idk if i missed something

[clear fulcrum]

who does grimm hurt?

[pliant yacht]

no one really
he's just part of a cycle

[long grove]

or little HK killed Marissa the Butterfly

[lavish stratus]

She's already dead.

[harsh yarrow]

THK is pretty innocent

[long grove]

her soul

[clear fulcrum]

grimm totally died? he becomes a part of the nightmare heart but he is no longer “grimm” that’s the point. That’s why grimm is acting excited the entire time, he’s afraid of dying

[wind mulch]

why do ai detectors keep flagging me do i write like a robot

[pliant yacht]

when the dream nail is used on a ghost, it absorbs the memory, not kill

[clear fulcrum]

the nail smith too

[harsh yarrow]

Them failing isnt their fault

[opaque sigil]

Ok but you see how this isn’t at all comparable to gp

[pliant yacht]

CLANKER

[lavish stratus]

And the Mantises attack intruders, they deserve it when the Knight kills them

[harsh yarrow]

No, but the assertion that the Knight didnt kill innocent people is wrong

[opaque sigil]

This is just being pedantic

[harsh yarrow]

yeah

[opaque sigil]

You know what they meant

[old compass]

you could say hornet viewed this as mercy kill since green prince while, all those stuff happened, but it's pure speculation and assumption

[pliant yacht]

well in the end hornet and lil ghost are two different beings

[crisp heron]

Guys just a brief reminder im not dangerous

[opaque sigil]

The messaging on that would be insanely fucked up lol

[harsh yarrow]

A bit, though I dont think Hornet could've fully known that the GP would die, though maybe her dialog with Gilly after Karm says otherwise?

[clear fulcrum]

tbf you could argue that he was the first one she performed the ritual on and she didn’t know that it would literally kill him

[opaque sigil]

Given that she may have done this multiple times before this super doesn’t work

[harsh yarrow]

the problem is may have, and it could've been on 2 corpses

[rocky jolt]

also the knight killed the dreamers which are still alive

[clear fulcrum]

Wouldn’t karmelita be the only other one

[opaque sigil]

“Yeah I used elegy and did this before and it killed them but I didn’t think it would do it THIS time”

[harsh yarrow]

and Karm was already on Deaths door

[clear fulcrum]

they ask for it tho

[harsh yarrow]

the Green Prince was still pretty damn alive

[solar eagle]

they wanted themselves to be dead

[pliant yacht]

i like how me posting one message about trobbio awakened everyone

[opaque sigil]

It’s fine to just say the gp stuff is sort of dumb and doesn’t make sense for hornet to do that

[old compass]

it's not that the knight is morally better, it's just that the knight doesn't have a visible personality which isn't as easily criticized as Hornet in silksong

[harsh yarrow]

Certainly

but I dont really mind it in the grand scheme of things

[rocky jolt]

but someone like green prince implies he wants to be killed so

[pliant yacht]

i think its good for character growth personally

[solar eagle]

killing without any reasoning?

[vivid belfry]

killing green prince would be pretty compelling if it wasn't optional

[opaque sigil]

Exactly

[harsh yarrow]

yeah

[vivid belfry]

the fact that it's bonus content is what mucks everything up

[harsh yarrow]

Its an odd thing, clearly because TC didnt want to fully cut Verdania

[fathom schooner]

Hornet stabs him because she dosent like or respect him

[atomic sparrow]

wait perfect chance for the mod

[lavish stratus]

She tells him she respects him

[opaque sigil]

They could’ve just… not had him die

[fathom schooner]

And then invades his private dreams, and murders him

[opaque sigil]

At least if he’s the fourth heart you get

[harsh yarrow]

yeah

that'd be an easy fix for it, have him give a special momento instead

[opaque sigil]

Like it wouldn’t be that hard to have her just not take the heart

[fathom schooner]

"Im gonna leave you to mourn now.... actually im just gonna stab you"

[rocky jolt]

killing a dude who lost everything just to get a memento is insane

[lavish stratus]

"You've journeyed far from that damp cell, tall bug. If you would oppose the minions of this Citadel, you have my respect."

[fathom schooner]

I mean.... whos gonna miss him?

Not like anyone remembers him since well, everything he loves is dead

[supple summit]

i dream nailed all the dream npcs in resting grounds on my first playthrough

[old compass]

did you get your ass kicked by him

[lavish stratus]

They're already dead.

[fathom schooner]

Yeah sure... but then she literally just kills him

[vivid belfry]

The other thing is that Green Prince's death triggering new growth in verdania is thematically cool but why doesn't that happen for the other heart bosses

you know, tearing down the idols of the old world to birth the new

[fathom schooner]

Nah coral tower actually gave me more trouble

[rocky jolt]

this is very disrespesctful to someone like green prince lmao

[supple summit]

i thoufht the 1 essence would go a long way

[pliant yacht]

VALID

[lavish stratus]

Yes, and it's out of character and bad writing.

[fathom schooner]

I mean its out of line but is it wrong

[old compass]

sorry I was talking to catfallen but it's ok for the confusion 🤝

[rocky jolt]

my guy is basically suicidal and you said if he were to die no one would miss him

[fathom schooner]

OKAY BUT AM I WRONG

[rocky jolt]

i guess not but thats because pharloom is dying either way

[opaque sigil]

It’s also pretty messy with the gilly conversation like if they wanted to change the old hearts to the verdania thing they could’ve changed that text too

[supple summit]

by who

[fathom schooner]

Id rather kill his sad ass than karmelita

[rocky jolt]

only one of the other old hearts are still alive

[old compass]

the resting grounds gaurdian

[fathom schooner]

The ants actually like her, my green mans everything is gone

[cinder bronze]

sea of sorrow may 20

[finite swift]

the reason why silk and song is called silk and song is because it has silk and its full of song

[supple summit]

no

[cobalt briar]

kill EVERYBODY 🔥🤑

[old compass]

good for you then

[pliant yacht]

i think you mispronounced ocean of sorry

[finite swift]

are you talking about the green princ

[supple summit]

y thoufh

[finite swift]

not me right we good right

[old compass]

because the human race sucks

[lavish stratus]

I don't think Hornet killed any innocent people in the first game either.

[solar eagle]

may trust

[finite swift]

wouldnt the vessels lowk count

[opaque sigil]

She did but not for no reason

[old compass]

isn't the greenpath vessel innocent

[opaque sigil]

Well her jumping Quirrel was totally pointless

[fathom schooner]

Hornet killed multiple (at least one) vessel just for not being strong enough to 1v1 her

Like hornet has a history of murder

[rocky jolt]

ok now we are talking about an npc that only appears in a few parts of the game

[finite swift]

She needed to keep people out of hallownest to,,, probably,,,, prevent hte infection to reach more people

[fathom schooner]

Hornet is literally a hunter, she kills things

[solar eagle]

but then she’s right because the vessel has to be strong

[finite swift]

she didnt realize qurriel had one of hte dreamers mask

[supple summit]

why is hornet so mean

[opaque sigil]

That really makes no sense

[fathom schooner]

I didn't say moral, i said murder

[clear fulcrum]

tbh we could argue that she never really saw them as living, which is why she’s so adamant about lace being alive

[finite swift]

shaw

[old compass]

being ancient made her a weirdo

[clear fulcrum]

why not let the world kill them?

[supple summit]

ok

[fathom schooner]

Honestly valid character growth, she watches her father treat created life as disposable and thats why she refuses to allow the void to take lace

[rocky jolt]

let the badass female mc be the badass female mc she wants to be

[fathom schooner]

She also funnily enough basically thinks the pale king is a dipshit

[sand turtle]

:pp

[fathom schooner]

So yeah that tracks

[solar eagle]

they might have lead the infection to be worse

[lavish stratus]

Absolutely horrendous writing.

[opaque sigil]

Hornet is a moron who cares

[clear fulcrum]

well I think that’s the entire point of Hornet in this story. Before she was a reactive character in HK, letting the world die as its sentinel. Now she’s a proactive character who believes in hope.

[long grove]

are u talking about sherma?

[fathom schooner]

Hornet is never said to even like or think about PK in the first game

[rocky jolt]

hornet

[solar eagle]

is sherma female?

[lavish stratus]

She spent the entirety of the first game guiding the Pale King's son to save Hallownest, and then has the audacity to call him a fool.

[clear fulcrum]

dude, if they couldn’t beat hornet they wouldn’t even make it past the fungal wastes

[fathom schooner]

Because he was and the void is a massively destructive force that literally killed her father

[clear fulcrum]

He was a fool? he tried to contain the radiance instead of destroying it

[long grove]

in my language there is no way to discover

[fathom schooner]

Fucking with the void IS stupid

[lavish stratus]

Well it worked in the end

[fathom schooner]

Shes smart enough to see that objectively, the vessel is needed to kill the radiance, but also see that the toll it cost was basically all of hallownest

[clear fulcrum]

no it didn’t, it was the combined efforts of THK and HK and Hornet who did.

[lavish stratus]

He had no way of destroying her. His plan was the only thing that had a chance of working

[cobalt briar]

son is a strong (and inaccurate) term here but i don’t care, she guided the knight because the knight could beat her

[lavish stratus]

Who are all children of the Pale King.

[fathom schooner]

She also dosent have a say in the use of the void until long after the fact

[clear fulcrum]

We literally see the vessel that was second to THK kill her, THK at his peak was more than capable.

[fathom schooner]

Like shes not born/an adult till after the vessels were tossed in the dark primordial soup

[lavish stratus]

And how would they meet the Radiance?

[opaque sigil]

Hollow knight fans don’t play the game

[fathom schooner]

I wouldn't say the knight was second to ANY vessel except for to the pale king, who, is an idiot as we know

[lavish stratus]

Excuse me, I'm a Hollow Knight fan.

[clear fulcrum]

literally dream nailing anyone with the infection? We’ve seen it happen with the lifeblood beast, you don’t necessarily have to go to the source to find the god.

[fathom schooner]

Being able to climb out of the abyss is a shitty test for which vessel is hollow/the most fit to contain the radiance

[little tulip]

Yall

[clear fulcrum]

I think it was more thematic than anything

[fathom schooner]

Ah yes, this one can CLIMB its definitely the best

[opaque sigil]

THK couldn’t kill Rad even if it could get to her it’s so funny that people lack such basic comprehension

[little tulip]

I need help rq

[lavish stratus]

She's spread out between all infected minds. There's no way to meet her unified form in the dream world. And how would he get a dream nail?

[clear fulcrum]

why not?

[fathom schooner]

The infection is a hive mind, not a spread mind

[opaque sigil]

Play the game it’s pretty good

[fathom schooner]

It dosent split the radiance, it ADDs them to her

[clear fulcrum]

so are we just attributing the victory to the moth then?

[clear fulcrum]

dude im so tired of you acting completely superior to everyone else and then refusing to actually elaborate on what you think

[fathom schooner]

Also its not that her "unified form" isnt available its that she dosent have a physical form

[lavish stratus]

What? No, the Pale King didn't have a dream nail and didn't have a way to gather the Radiance inside one person without sealing her inside the Hollow Knight

[opaque sigil]

Ok but you literally haven’t played the game

[cobalt briar]

ignore ts guy

[fathom schooner]

She never had a physical form, the radiance was always in dreams

[lavish stratus]

If the Radiance is inside the Hollow Knight, the Hollow Knight can't meet her in the dream

[odd hull]

[clear fulcrum]

The moths were higher in numbers in his time?

[fathom schooner]

Hense why she was pissed when the moths fucked off, them forgetting her would kill her

[clear fulcrum]

yes i have?

[opaque sigil]

There’s an extra kind of important thing the knight gets that explicitly enables it to do something new but hollow knight fans can’t read

[cobalt briar]

hornet enters her own mind in silksong.

[clear fulcrum]

the void heart?

[lavish stratus]

How would the Pale King know about that?

[harsh yarrow]

thats just how it goes with every fandom...

[fathom schooner]

The void heart isnt required to see the radiance so much as kill it because the knight would need the entire void to follow its command

[lavish stratus]

He doesn't have the power of three near-godlike beings to sacrifice

[opaque sigil]

Ok but the lack of even basic plot comprehension is crazy

[cobalt briar]

the soul scholars would have had to have figured it out, and we don’t really know if they did

[wind mulch]

if the pale king wasnt a bum he wouldve made a dream nail but alas

[cobalt pilot]

Are there any mine sols players in chat rn

I need help with somethifn

[harsh yarrow]

you see, that takes reading, or understanding what your doing

this is a game with a large fanbase

[fathom schooner]

Like in theory the knight COULD challenge the radiance without void heart, but theres no way it would win without the void rising to kill the radiance and consume it

[harsh yarrow]

therefore, many of its players just dont know how to read ;3

[fathom schooner]

Snail shamans are godlike now?

[cobalt briar]

the old hearts ?

[fathom schooner]

Dang guess soul tyrant was a god

[lavish stratus]

The Old Hearts

[cobalt briar]

from the near godlike beings..

[wind mulch]

that mf khann is not godlike

[cobalt briar]

he’s close enough

[opaque sigil]

Old hearts are pretty severely differentiated from being godlike

[lavish stratus]

Terrible bossfight yes

[fathom schooner]

Oh we calling king has been, old singing lady, depressed single dude, and the first plant as godlike?

[lavish stratus]

Whatever you get my point

[fathom schooner]

The weavers are closer to godlike than they were

They all have the power of pharloom in their prime

[clear fulcrum]

the void is literally shown to kill any god that goes near it though? Like we don’t even need to control the void here, we would just need to figure out how it even gets into THK’s mind in the first place

[trim wedge]

me

[cobalt briar]

he just means really powerful through exaggeration

[fathom schooner]

But they aren't godlike

[cobalt pilot]

||How do I get past the piss waterfall after meeting goumang||

[fathom schooner]

The void aggressively seeks out living beings soul, but the radiance is strong enough to fight against the void without being dragged into it

[lavish stratus]

So Pale King was very wise with how he used the void, and Hornet calling him a fool is ridiculous

[trim wedge]

doesn't it stop flowing at all?

[opaque sigil]

Hornet is dumb she got brain damage from the cage

[fathom schooner]

Hense the void heart is needed to get the void to drag her into it when shes weakened

[cobalt briar]

he was a fool because he attempted to prevent something he couldn’t

[clear fulcrum]

Sure but the THK could surely weaken it enough to get to that point, just like he and the knight did in dream no more

[cobalt pilot]

No

Did I miss something..

[fathom schooner]

Eh, the radiance has control over THKs body

[trim wedge]

you need to dash

[fathom schooner]

Idea instilled and all that

[clear fulcrum]

Isn’t the void heart created just because the knight has the kingsoul and he also accepts his past? is there a reason that its a thing beyond that?

[cobalt pilot]

||Through the waterfall?||

[trim wedge]

yes

[clear fulcrum]

sure but as we already established, it’s a hive mind

[trim wedge]

dashing gives you iframes

[cobalt pilot]

Oh my gosh

[clear fulcrum]

you couldve used any other vessel to contain the radiance

[fathom schooner]

Im not entirely sure the relevance of the kingsoul to the void heart

[cobalt pilot]

I cannot fucking believe I didn’t dry that before

[cobalt briar]

i think the kingsoul was like a key to access the birthplace or sum

[cobalt pilot]

Thank you

[fathom schooner]

Oh yeah but THK is the only vessel that wasnt locked in the abyss

[trim wedge]

lol it happens

[trim wedge]

my pleasure

[clear fulcrum]

which is why im saying that the Pale King COULD have killed the radiance if he genuinely tried to

[fathom schooner]

Like if theoretically the objective was for the pale king to kill the radiance he could've locked it inside a vessel, and used another to have the void murder her

[lavish stratus]

No he couldn't

[clear fulcrum]

im not arguing that the THK could have done this all by himself

[opaque sigil]

PK did not have the option to kill radiance this is just basic reading comprehension

[wind mulch]

thk cant even stab itself to death properly

[fathom schooner]

But also the pale king didn't know the radiance could be killed

Didn't know THK would fail

And the void probably would have killed him too, it had personal beef with him

[opaque sigil]

It could not be more clear that that wasn’t on the table

[cobalt briar]

i’m mr beast, and today i’ve got more than one MILLION void vessels in this pit !! whoever can climb out the fastest wins eternal imprisonment !! :D

[fathom schooner]

Like for a time after sealing the radiance, the infection faded as the radiance was sealed

[clear fulcrum]

Literally why not? If the void heart is required and all we know about the void heart is that it came from the king soul AND the vessel confronting its past, why couldn’t he?

[lavish stratus]

He didn't know about void heart

[opaque sigil]

Play the game it’s pretty good

[fathom schooner]

But then it found THKs idea.... and it latched onto it.... and then the infection spread from the black egg

[clear fulcrum]

neither did the knight 😭

[cobalt briar]

ethereal ragebait from this tammo guy right here

[lavish stratus]

They got lucky.

[fathom schooner]

Lucky, no

[clear fulcrum]

all you due is vague post with a sense of superiority lol

[lavish stratus]

No he's not.

[fathom schooner]

Hornet pushed the knight twords the abyss

Pushed them to find and come to terms with their birth

[wind mulch]

the void is like diametrically opposed to the pale king as a soul based hb

[lavish stratus]

Hornet didn't know about void heart.

[real leaf]

void level ragebait

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but not sentient void

[timid plinth]

out is sea of sorrow?

[real leaf]

sea of tomorrow not out

[fathom schooner]

No one "knew" about the void heart but hornet is the one pushing the knight to take the path to kill the radiance, telling it it needs to be aware of its birth to kill the radiance

[opaque sigil]

She did but its creation is facilitated in part by the ages spent since the vessel project where the knight’s strength and will is honed in the wastes behind

[spark anchor]

radiance is in a place pale king cannot reach

[cobalt briar]

no grandpa, we’ll wake you up when it’s time

[clear fulcrum]

it still doesnt change the fact that any vessel could go back down to the abyss

[spark anchor]

afaik

[timid plinth]

awh

[fathom schooner]

Like, no one would be AWARE that a vessel would just take command over a fucking primordial ocean of darkness

[timid plinth]

[wind mulch]

i dont think the voidheart is as simple as "combine x and x"

[clear fulcrum]

why couldn’t he get the moths to give him a dream nail if they were so devoted?

[lavish stratus]

How could she have known

[wind mulch]

in game sure but its allegorical

[opaque sigil]

She talks about it repeatedly go read her dialogue

[spark anchor]

idfk they needed the worthiest one and he wasnt worthy

[clear fulcrum]

yeah but we don’t know enough about the components to actually rule out that it wasn’t possible in the Pale Kings time

[lavish stratus]

But where would she get her knowledge from

[clear fulcrum]

what does this even mean bro 😭

[spark anchor]

sword in stone

[wind mulch]

just seems a bit counterintuitive to the plot

[opaque sigil]

Somewhere it doesn’t really matter

[fathom schooner]

The voidheart is essentially the knight becoming fully aware of its endgoal, and uniting all the pain and suffering its siblings felt at the hands of the void and uniting that pain to finally rest, by killing the light that forced this upon them

[clear fulcrum]

fork in kitchen

[timid plinth]

maybe the pale king wasnt the wielder they were waiting for

[lavish stratus]

"...It faced the void, and ascends unscathed... Could it unite such vast darkness?.."

[clear fulcrum]

they literally forsake their god because of him

[fathom schooner]

So the void heart is less "you need this" and more of a half void pale being excising its will upon the void

It also maintains that control long after the killing of the radiance

[lavish stratus]

No, the Pale King is already dead.

Wait

[fathom schooner]

The vessels were made to combat the radiance

Killing the pale king wouldn't fix that, they're creation begets the death of the light

[cobalt briar]

the moths likely built the altar with the dream nail after hallownest fell to ruin and PK was long gone so that whoever found it could wield the power to enter THK’s mind

[shy thorn]

No. They were made to consume the plague

[lavish stratus]

Right, it's the Radiance's fault the vessels are suffering.

[shy thorn]

Initially King didn’t think about killing Radiance

[fathom schooner]

I mean reminder that the void heart is the KNIGHT forcing its will upon the void

[wind mulch]

i like to think the pale king is actually just stupid and the entire vessel thing was his first and only plan

[fathom schooner]

The knight thats walked hallownest and taken upon the role to free it of its stasis

[timid plinth]

pale king didnt know about the dream nail

[wind mulch]

like its not true at all

[lavish stratus]

He's not stupid

[wind mulch]

but its funny

[umbral ether]

thank you windows security

[lavish stratus]

His plan would've worked he was just too good of a father

[fathom schooner]

I mean hes an idiot for fucking with the void

[lavish stratus]

Oh my god

[fathom schooner]

It did in fact kill him

[wind mulch]

he willingly made himself like 4 feet tall

[lavish stratus]

Hornet is wrong when she calls him a fool

[shy thorn]

Agree. But not stupid for creating such a kingdom. Just comparing it with Pharloom. Pharloom was pretty shitty before I guess

[fathom schooner]

That was to rizz up a very hot tree he knew what he was doing

[opaque sigil]

Hollow knight fans literally just can’t read it’s crazy

[cobalt briar]

he had a kink for gigantic dominant women trust

[fathom schooner]

The void, the primordial force that HATES LIFE AND AGGRESSIVELY TRIES TO KILL IT

Ah yes hes not stupid for messing with that

[timid plinth]

i'd rather watch a mossbag video

[umbral ether]

i can read

[wind mulch]

the pale king is the vessel anyway

[lavish stratus]

No one was ever hurt by the void while Pale King was using it.

[wind mulch]

we all know this

[cobalt briar]

elite reference

[timid plinth]

turth nuke

[clear fulcrum]

okay but how does this prevent the pale king from just commanding them to create one

[wind mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/reference-sick-gif-14028471

[fathom schooner]

Except all his children, the bugs that died while he was experimenting on stuffing void into shells

[shy thorn]

Do you consider yourself a fan though?

[fathom schooner]

Hmm, sounds like fucking with a substance capable of ripping an entire kingdom apart is a bad idea

[lavish stratus]

The first one is a necessary sacrifice, the second one is their fault

[cobalt briar]

they worshipped the radiance they ain’t helping him make no radiance killer

[wind mulch]

why didnt bro just take THK and move him reaaaaaally far away

[sly sigil]

HOW THE HELL DO I DODGE LAST JUDGES DASH THING

[wind mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/push-it-patrick-star-gif-5131285

[lavish stratus]

What?

[timid plinth]

jump

[cobalt briar]

jump

[solar eagle]

jump

[wind mulch]

why are you still taking me seriously

[fathom schooner]

Your gonna victim blame people for dying to a substance they couldn't have known how dangerous was?

[shy thorn]

Take time, you will learn

[clear fulcrum]

they ARE the radiance killer bro 😭
“we’ll let our god die because this new one is cooler, but we won’t actually kill her”

[shy thorn]

There’s nothing impossible

[lavish stratus]

They chose to turn off the lighthouse.

[clear fulcrum]

just pogo

[cobalt briar]

oh yeah

[fathom schooner]

Its less let our god die and more ADHD shiny squirreling

[clear fulcrum]

the void took control of them bro

[wind mulch]

is the Radiance misunderstood 🧐

[clear fulcrum]

the void can literally enter your mind p sure

[lavish stratus]

You're wrong but I can't think of a reason why you're wrong. Why couldn't the Pale King move the Hollow Knight far away?

[fathom schooner]

Also they didn't attempt to kill her, she almost died because they almost forgot her

[wind mulch]

lets break this down

[torpid swift]

Wrong chat !

[cobalt briar]

maybe PK was so locked in on containing the radiance he never thought of killing it

[lavish stratus]

Somewhat, yes.

[clear fulcrum]

He’s arguing that they wouldn’t create the dreamnail to kill the radiance because they worshipped her

[torpid swift]

SK discussion doesn't allow hk spoilrrs

[fathom schooner]

The radiance statue at hallownest crown was just enough to keep her going (this is implied)

[wind mulch]

I imagine physical distance doesnt concern the dream realm

[fathom schooner]

The moths say they used to have multiple dreamnails

[clear fulcrum]

yeah that’s the purpose of this discussion, i called the pale king an idiot for trying to contain her instead of killing her. It’s a big what if discussion.

[lavish stratus]

I would agree with you but the Infected Crossroads shows distance matters to some amount.

[cobalt briar]

if you’re playing silksong without playing hk what are you even doing

[clear fulcrum]

exactly!!

[clear fulcrum]

“why is this game so hard”

[fathom schooner]

Like the moths used the nails to do more than just "murder god"

[torpid swift]

I mean, I played silksong first but well

[fathom schooner]

We use it to murder god, because thats its best use to us

[solar eagle]

then you should not read the last 15 minutes of this chat

[shy thorn]

Hypetrain

[torpid swift]

I have finished hk too

[timid plinth]

idt it matters a lot

[cobalt briar]

maybe PK already knew the infection was inevitable and only tried delaying it, idk

[timid plinth]

both games have different lore

[solar eagle]

can’t he see the future

[cobalt briar]

guys bad review i played the sequel that directly follows the original in terms of difficulty and complexity and i dont understand how the gameplay works

[solar eagle]

im sure he knew

[sly sigil]

I DEFEATED LAST JUDGE LES GOOOO

[clear fulcrum]

sure but by the point of the knight arriving, the infection IS inevitable. THK is freed from his chains, and the knight is the only thing stopping the radiance

[cobalt briar]

yeah that’s what i mean

[wind mulch]

maybe thats more-so like an exaggerated effect based on proximity, id bet that radiance can still exert its will regardless of distance and the stuff in the crossroads is basically not even something she is doing intentionally

proximity has some effect but it doesnt matter

[sharp slate]

eyo congrats!

[shy thorn]

Depends where. The worlds are different but the game is a sequel. Plus stories are similar in some ways

[cobalt briar]

it always was inevitable

[clear fulcrum]

Video games are more than just trial and error bro!!! These other people are elitist and just better than me.. I could never be good at this game like them..

[lavish stratus]

I'll think about it

[clear fulcrum]

Not really, if THK was ever truly hollow it would have worked

[fathom schooner]

He did have "foresight" but apparently not enough of it to avoid getting ganked by the void in his dream palace

[fathom schooner]

But no vessel would ever be hollow

[clear fulcrum]

the games lwk have the same lore 😭

[clear fulcrum]

have you ever tried abuse