sk-discussion

[light swan]

maximizing damage in it is interesting

[fiery burrow]

I just like being able to hit the boss

[opaque sigil]

you can

[earnest drift]

shit game with shit characters

[fiery burrow]

Yeah not much though

[light swan]

me too, which is why getting ||attacks and slingshot on him during the phase is fun||

[graceful oyster]

You'll be able to shortly, just have a quick little bout of dodging things

[light swan]

this is still the most locked in ive ever been

[graceful oyster]

Or do more damage so he doesn't do that part

[hardy tangle]

even someone like tuk had an intriguing backstory, silksong npcs just feel like pharloom citizens which makes sense but hallownrst being an abandoned place random bugs with their own lives is much more interesting than ohhh i used to serve the citadel but they bwtrrayyyy citadel baaad

[devout oak]

me when i play silksong first:

[earnest drift]

tf is Tuk’s backstory
they accidentally bought too many eggs??

[hardy tangle]

like I wanna sit down and get to know the hk npcs, where they came from, etc

[fiery burrow]

Only an issue for modless runs yeah

[earnest drift]

hollow good npcs: Quirrel (debatable), hornet

[hardy tangle]

dream nail dialogue says she's gonna find someone and he has to apologize, that guy likely being this big dude that looked like tuk we saw in quirrels comic

[graceful oyster]

It's still quite possible with good health awareness and targeting

[fiery burrow]

fr?

[graceful oyster]

Yeah

[earnest drift]

both games are filled with alluding dialogue that is never expanded upon

[fiery burrow]

I'll have to get better ig

[earnest drift]

and no one cares about any of it that’s not a “backstory”

[light swan]

this is why mio's combat will always be better than silksong's combat

[undone cobalt]

DM me the word “Grass” for a surprise!!

[hardy tangle]

which opens up for head canons and theories, I don't want every single fucking character to have clear lore

[light swan]

is it? ive never been able to skip it before

[versed current]

No

[undone cobalt]

Why not??

[light swan]

at most ive been able to get him to start his phase transition after the attack after it

[earnest drift]

half-assed writing is a good thing apparently

[versed current]

Why

[worldly lake]

hallownest has shit life expectancy, pharloom has shit life quality

[undone cobalt]

For a surprise!! Of course :D

[hardy tangle]

it's a part of a character that makes them more interesting than just a blank NPC, tuk just gives you rotten eggs they had no reason to do it yet they did which makes her cool

[versed current]

Not every character needs an entire story

[fiery burrow]

dm me word for a surprise in the big 26 🥀

[rocky jolt]

this chat really is poop from a butt

[hardy tangle]

and what does lumble offer

[earnest drift]

I agree but hollow knight only has like 2 npcs with sufficient depth

[devout oak]

brother why do you expect good writing from hollow knight of all things

[heady iron]

people too often mistake the inability to form a coherent story with "mystery" and "intrigue"

[earnest drift]

creige says he was saving the tool kit for someone but he knows they’re not returning now

[ancient mortar]

But yeah theres things mio does that surpass silksong by far for me but combat and bosses arent one of them

[hardy tangle]

grindle: ohh I'm a robber that's my shtick I have nothing else interesting

[fiery burrow]

blame miyazaki

[undone cobalt]

You guys are missing out on a MASSIVE surprise

[devout oak]

go read a book

[earnest drift]

tiso: I’m so arrogant and I’m gonna beat you nvm I’m dead

[fiery burrow]

the toxic swamp guy not the anti toxic swamp guy

[light swan]

the fact that combat, with 0 abilities or customization options, is this interesting already is fucking crazy to me

[earnest drift]

cloth: I stand around and be useless 90% of the time in traitor lord

[opaque sigil]

they're both toxic swamp guys

[earnest drift]

zote: I’m zote

[ancient mortar]

wis this a boss i've seen or should i not click

[versed current]

Incorrect
Hornet
Quirrel
Zote(kinda)
Grimm
Nymm
More

[light swan]

youve seen

[hardy tangle]

pretty obvious for a dude that runs this rest area has ties with a bunch of ppl

[earnest drift]

Grimm and zote do not have depth

[steep jolt]

zote is a god

[versed current]

All youre doing is generalizing the stories to death so they sound bad

[fiery burrow]

they're draining the toxic junk smh

[hardy tangle]

like talking to a brick wall

[earnest drift]

everyone does that why are you singling me out

[versed current]

Wdym? Zote is actually involved in the game and grimm has tons of lore

[devout oak]

*zote is the god

[versed current]

Because youre doing it

[earnest drift]

that’s how it feels to talk to zote yes

[fiery burrow]

its been a while since i've watched nausicaa tbh

[hardy tangle]

zote is a great NPC, you don't have to like his personality

[opaque sigil]

same

[light swan]

zote is greyroots son and thats neough for me

[earnest drift]

how is zote involved in the game
the nightmare heart has lore Grimm is just the heart’s slave

[versed current]

Theory

[devout oak]

no it doesnt

[ancient mortar]

Anyone here played signalis

[steep jolt]

nightmare heart is zotes slave

[worldly lake]

i left zote in deepnest

[devout oak]

grimm troupe lore is just: dream realm (scary edition)

[versed current]

Zote has a boss, tons of dialogue, can be found throughout the map, has interactions with other characters

Also grimm has a much more interesting story than that

[earnest drift]

he can also die and nothing changes

[steep jolt]

zote turns into a weaver and you fight him instead of gms

[versed current]

That makes it even more interesting
One of the few npcs that die from your actions

[devout oak]

so can literally anyone in silksong

[rocky jolt]

garmond and huntress die and also nothing changes

[earnest drift]

bell beast doesn’t even speak and she is somehow infinitely more interesting than old stag

[rocky jolt]

ok lace can you genuinely have a good take for once

[steep jolt]

zote manipulated someone so much they turned him into a god and broke into a godseekers dreams

[earnest drift]

and she’s just a dog

[devout oak]

all that silksong characters do is make you do sidequests and waste your time with dialogue

[light swan]

why doesnt silksong have strailpin builds

[worldly lake]

do i still get the rivalry achievement from beating weaver zote

[heady iron]

that's because she's female while old stag is male and women are infinitely more interesting than men

[opaque sigil]

because it's LAME

[steep jolt]

do you guys think godseekers are like very lowly higher beings because they can house gods in their minds

[opaque sigil]

imagine if silksong had firefly

[versed current]

Not if they eat the mona lisa

[earnest drift]

radiance is a stupid character who shouldn’t have been in the game

[light swan]

why it’s so cool

[versed current]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-reacts-shocked-gif-9885796698302419555

[steep jolt]

old stag is just a chill unc

[opaque sigil]

no I mean silksong

[light swan]

ah

[rocky jolt]

just say her motives are bad

[hardy tangle]

most silksong npcs don't have any backstory that we can't already guess like forge daughter probably just forged shit for her whole life, with hk npcs you can't really guess

which is what makes their dialogue much more interesting

[versed current]

How lol, radiance is a pretty cool character and involved the story

[light swan]

strailpin would be awesome in silksong because silksongs combat is limited and so grounded and not dynamic at all

[devout oak]

10/10 ragebait

[rocky jolt]

team cherry really made up the most bullshit reason to have a second sentinel fight just for it to reuse attacks from other bosses

[earnest drift]

why do Hk glazers act like vagueness is a good thing

[hardy tangle]

shakra really benefits from not being a citizen of pharloom it's what makes her such a good NPC you want to know her more

[versed current]

Why do sk glazers never let people have opinions and always start arguments

[earnest drift]

name 5 people who do that

[fiery burrow]

(MIO true final boss spoiler) think I'm getting better at shairpin spam

[devout oak]

why do you give a shit about the backstory of a character than only exists to lock something behind a sidequest in an action / exploration style game with no focus on the story

[versed current]

You
Most silksong fans

[earnest drift]

that’s 2

[heady iron]

one pronoun, one generalized group

[versed current]

2 silksong fans exist

[hardy tangle]

broaden your horizons

[versed current]

Lol

[worldly lake]

good one

[hardy tangle]

does everyone irl tell you their whole life story when you meet them for the first time

[heady iron]

games aren't real life

[versed current]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-eye-roll-annoyed-awkward-awkward-silence-gif-8519527199733944803

[ancient mortar]

Anyway i can't think of a single mio or silksong boss i enjoyed more than the like top 6-10 everhood fights

[hardy tangle]

getting these small random scraps of lore about an NPC is what gives them life

[worldly lake]

does a game have to flesh out every random character and spoon-feed you every detail about the lore to be enjoyable

[fiery burrow]

This is because there are no good 2d bosses

[hardy tangle]

and this lore doesn't matter you don't have to care

[rocky jolt]

silksong barely has any mysteries compared to hollow knight

[versed current]

Wrong
Donkey kong

[heady iron]

Bowser

[worldly lake]

especially considering that hollow knight isn't even completely a story game

[earnest drift]

anyway uh
Silksong’s most notable npcs are given much more attention and development which enrich the story and make it much easier to sympathise with the people you’re saving

hollow knight only has one or two people who catch the player’s attention and all of them are dead by the end of the game and while it builds on the tragedy of the game it makes the hero’s journey less incentivising to complete due to there being no one to care about

[opaque sigil]

menolias

[hardy tangle]

and as much as I dislike that it's what they were going for

you can't really fill a still surviving civilization with that much mystery

[rocky jolt]

most mysteries from silksong are content from the first game lol

[versed current]

Name those silksong npcs

[hardy tangle]

just ask some bloke he'll tell you

[fiery burrow]

I don't think HK1 is that vague

[heady iron]

a surviving civilization would have eeven more mystery because there's more things going on

[fiery burrow]

Silksong characters just don't have anything except for a few good ones like Sherma and Caretaker

[hardy tangle]

I love twelfth architect but they really don't have a personality other than being a slave clanker made by the citadel

[rocky jolt]

hk starts throwing the words ''unn'' and ''white king'' right at the second area

[light swan]

luckily the execution was so good it’s the best boss in tbe game

[earnest drift]

Shakra sherma garmond (dies but is well developed) lace (best villain) second sentinel bell beast

hollow knight’s best developed npcs are Quirrel (dead) hornet cloth (dead) old stag

[hardy tangle]

loam is just another slave

[versed current]

It isnt
Tons of npcs have nice little stories

[rocky jolt]

i mean its decent

[devout oak]

"i need some random dude to tell me his backstory and motivate me to actually play the game like an anime character"

[earnest drift]

yes exactly

[light swan]

if it’s decent then everything else is bad

[earnest drift]

the knight has no reason to beat the radiance because the kingdom is dead anyway

[heady iron]

there's a reason why more people know about one piece than silksong

[devout oak]

go play an rpg

[rocky jolt]

except for Crawfather tho

[worldly lake]

i would argue that a collapsed civilization would have more mystery because there was more things going on and there's less ways to know what was going on

[hardy tangle]

to free it's sibling from eternal suffering

[earnest drift]

doesn’t the hollow knight ending do that

[shell quarry]

what do you think a decent way to improve the difficulty of GMS would be? i was really disappointed by how easy that fight was

[hardy tangle]

killing is freeing

[worldly lake]

for a surviving civilization you only really need to look around and talk to some people to see what's happening

[versed current]

Bell beast
Is uh
A random thing who kills a monster and has kids
I can see sherma and shakra
Garmond dies which is the exact reason why you didnt like zote (who also has a story)
Lace is just crybaby who wants attention
Second sentinel attacks two bugs and then you battle

[earnest drift]

make a rematch

[hardy tangle]

garmond is not interesting

[versed current]

Maybe a godhome version like tc did with thk

[hardy tangle]

his dialogue doesn't tell us anything about him

[versed current]

Hes cool tho

[fiery burrow]

I mean E33 does sweep Silksong

[hardy tangle]

sure he's cool

his boss fight is dookie butt tho both of them

[earnest drift]

Quirrel is annoying and helps during a shitass bossfight which makes me hate him more
hornet was a lame character until silksong
cloth suddenly becomes scared of mawlek things and suddenly takes on traitor lord and dies for no reason

[versed current]

We might not get a godhome dlc tho

[earnest drift]

zote is annoying unlike garmond

[young saffron]

We defo will get a pantheon / boss rush of some sort

[ancient mortar]

It does feel like everyone has the tendency to say "x game bad" to prop up their preferred game

[devout oak]

tbh im surprised how nobody brought this up but e33 is barely an rpg, like you make a total of one choice and all it does it determine which of the 2 cutscenes play at the end.

[earnest drift]

so silksong has 2 good npcs and hollow knight has 0 good npcs are we agreed on that

[hardy tangle]

daughter of a dreamer and the big man himself and kills your kind but slowly grows to respect you and also helps you at the end such a laaaaaamr character

[earnest drift]

I don’t even know who this is

[opaque sigil]

e33 is a jrpg

[leaden delta]

just give her more shit to do

[heady iron]

taxes

[devout oak]

more hp and more cinematic attacks

[graceful cairn]

how

[graceful cairn]

you clearly dont understand cloth

[versed current]

Cloth doesnt suddenly take on traitor lord, they have growth. They try to be a warrior but end up scared
So they decide to toughen up and help you with traitor lord

How is quirrel annoying??

The personality of a character doesnt make them badly written

Also hornet wasnt a lame character lol

[hardy tangle]

durrrrrtghhh... gurhhhhh drools urghhhhh.... eats booger duhhh...

[versed current]

Have you played hk?

[earnest drift]

how are Shakra, sherma, garmond, lace, bell beast or second sentinel bad

[graceful cairn]

I highly doubt it

[undone cobalt]

High Halls gauntlet jumpscare

[versed current]

Not WATCHED somebody play it,
I mean buy the game and experience it

[hardy tangle]

don't think they said any of those are bad

[earnest drift]

and Quirrel is annoying because he doesn’t do shit until a horrible bossfight where he makes it even worse with his shitass voice

[devout oak]

just say that you played hk after silksong

[graceful cairn]

"oh you like these characters so you must hate these ones"

[earnest drift]

hence silksong’s characters are better

[fiery burrow]

i kinda just think of RPGs as games with levelling mechanics tbh

[earnest drift]

I didn’t actually

[versed current]

Lol
I dont hate the character
They just over glorify them, i actually like them

[versed current]

Because you didnt play it

[earnest drift]

oh I did play it

[opaque sigil]

that is a rpg mechanic generally

[earnest drift]

it was fine

[opaque sigil]

rpg doesn't mean dialogue options in any case

[hardy tangle]

moss druid could've have some really cool backstory they sprinkle in their dialogue every now and then but she doesn't

[versed current]

https://tenor.com/view/don't-dm-me-don't-pregnant-man-react-me-we're-done-dirt-man-pregnant-sir-monster-pregnant-gif-374933367237774280

Yknow what imma head out

[devout oak]

none of them are interesting and the story changes in no way because not a single one of them is even remotely inmportant to the lore

[earnest drift]

salubra could’ve stopped being annoying for 0.1 seconds but she never did

[fiery burrow]

bell beast is a dog bruh

Lazy mutt that sleeps all day

[versed current]

No point in trying convince them

[opaque sigil]

and hornet is an irresponsible pet owner

[graceful cairn]

this lace guy is such a hater

[hardy tangle]

divine is better than half the NPCs in silksong

[devout oak]

silksong had the potential to be a cool story but teamcherry arent writers so its fine that the game turned out as it is

[earnest drift]

sherma rescues hornet in act 3
Shakra and second sentinel defend their respective pilgrim settlements
lace is lace

[hardy tangle]

oh I just looove scared pilgrim and calm pilgrim

[earnest drift]

sherma is better than 99% of the npcs in hollow knight

[graceful cairn]

real

[versed current]

They wont change their opinion
It doesn’t really matter some rando doesnt like your favorite game
Just chill

[rocky jolt]

do not diss my pilgrim npcs

[icy crow]

Pious Isamor

[normal bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-hollow-night-silksong-faridulasimanet-sherma-silksong-gif-171830693794769624

[icy crow]

Pious Isamor v2

[spark anchor]

why does team cherry like ambiguity about most of their characters

[hardy tangle]

vague post king

[rocky jolt]

dear.... grim...

[icy crow]

Pious Isamor Ultimate

[fiery burrow]

Does Hornet let her deeplings free roam and decimate the lumafly population

[hardy tangle]

pious vague poster isamor

[ashen heron]

sherma is just silksong myla tho

[icy crow]

Isamor, the Pious

[spark anchor]

i like ambiguity but silksong turns it up several notches

[hardy tangle]

stop making this comparison

[ashen heron]

im right

[normal bramble]

Sherma lives though :p

[hardy tangle]

myla is extremely boring

[versed current]

I was really suprised when sherma died too

[opaque sigil]

she even summons them to her off leash they're a menace and somebody should call animal control

[earnest drift]

despite all the useless and unsympathetic npcs hollow knight’s story was going to be good
it’s just radiance that ruined it

[hardy tangle]

myla is closer to lumble than sherma

[spark anchor]

This is the biggest insult to sherma

[ashen heron]

why the myla hate

[earnest drift]

your first good take

[hardy tangle]

we should stop pretending myla had any significance other than dying

[devout oak]

not needed as it would have made perfect sense if hornet did that herself,
plays no part in the overall story
and lace is the only actually story relevant character, yes

[ashen heron]

look into your hearts

[fiery burrow]

truebbio

[normal bramble]

I won’t comment as I’ve never actually played HK while only having played silksong

[spark anchor]

Myla has no story significance

[icy crow]

Myla lowkirknuinely has no correlation to Hollow Knight's plot meanwhile Sherma is on it 24/7

[versed current]

Dont get mad at them dont get mad at them dont get mad at them

[hardy tangle]

you've never had one of those

[ashen heron]

the radiance was the entire story of hollow knight?

[spark anchor]

Sherma has actual character development

[versed current]

Imma head out im getting ragebaited lol

[earnest drift]

no pale king was

who is also very cliche but he’s better than radiance

[devout oak]

you keep swiching between terrible takes and terrible ragebait, pick one

[icy crow]

But we can all agree that the best most random ass NPC is Pious Isamor, right?

[hardy tangle]

sly also mentions this one character while hallucinating that we never hear again, even small things like that give NPCs more life

[trim estuary]

lace here is constantly trying to steal my title

[versed current]

Good morning, afternoon,
night

[versed current]

Lol

[hardy tangle]

like does Sherma ever tell us his origins or vaguely mention another character

[earnest drift]

throwing out random names isn’t good writing

[hardy tangle]

he's not all that interesting other than being this innocent kid

[orchid spruce]

mio spoilers, nine sols spoilers

just beat ||debby||, updated bosses tier list

[fiery burrow]

what origins he's a regular joe that's the point

[trim estuary]

no, sherma exists only to be himself

[earnest drift]

he doesn’t need to
his development in the present is what makes him so compelling

[normal bramble]

Sherma isn’t even a kid?

[hardy tangle]

it's not about writing brothaniel

[icy crow]

He's just a random ass pilgrim but with actual personality

[ashen heron]

the corpses leading up to nosk were good characters

[earnest drift]

cornier, nailmasters, sly all have no development

[normal bramble]

Sherma is a pilgrim just like every other

[devout oak]

saying random bullshit isnt good ragebait

[hardy tangle]

sure as hell acts like one

[normal bramble]

However the point of Sherma is that he’s the one pilgrim who can actually make it to the citadel

[earnest drift]

I have never ragebaited in my life

[ashen heron]

but there are so many pilgrims in songclave

[low delta]

Sherma development now outweights csm character development lowk 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️

[earnest drift]

sherma’s point is that he loses his innocence and comes to terms with the horrors of Pharloom

[icy crow]

Sherma locked in after realizing the Citadel isn't all sunshine and rainbows

[hardy tangle]

you can have both 🧌

[trim estuary]

lace lowkirkenuinely believes that silksong is well written its wild

[earnest drift]

name 3 characters in hollow knight with both

[devout oak]

thinking that silksong needs writing is wild aswell

[spark anchor]

team cherry are vaguepost kings

[trim estuary]

TRUE

[brittle totem]

i hate king khan's gauntlets so much

[trim estuary]

silksong shouldn't have had a story it wouldve been much better tbh

[spark anchor]

“I can tell you all the information you need… but I won’t.”

[brittle totem]

istg he has a big army we get it

[hardy tangle]

quirrel hornet stag

[orchid spruce]

changed my mind a bit, mio spoilers nine sols spoilers

[graceful cairn]

this is true

[icy crow]

We all getting to discover the ancient civilization in Zoteboat

[fiery burrow]

Myla is cool in the sense that she shows the infections early symptoms

[ashen heron]

how did you decide which ss bosses to put here

[graceful cairn]

I never knew I was even supposed to care about myla

[earnest drift]

stag does not have an interesting backstory and his development isn’t that great

[fiery burrow]

And kinda fleshes out miner lore otherwise not much too her but she's fun

[orchid spruce]

boss quality and how much i enjoy it

[spark anchor]

I like hk’s worldbuilding but i have to admit that the ambiguity and gaps in lore are too much

[fiery burrow]

What ambiguity

[hardy tangle]

never told me to list the quality of them

[spark anchor]

At least address some of the elephants and their children in the room

[ashen heron]

bro he turns from the last stag into the old stag that moment is awesome

[earnest drift]

but I did tell you to name 3 you only named 2

[spark anchor]

Maybe im asking for too much since silksong is still fairly new and there’s no dlc or new lore drops

[hardy tangle]

stag is one

he has a backstory check
he has growth check

[earnest drift]

you know what else is awesome silksong’s story but thinking that is apparently unpopular

[graceful cairn]

his development IS great bro dont diss my man

[spark anchor]

I mean for a comparison on hk’s release, dung defender didn’t have much lore behind him but hidden dreams gave him a lot more backstory

I want that for a certain fan favourite character…

[ashen heron]

i think silksongs story is awesome but i also think hollow knight did well with its story and characters

[earnest drift]

dung defender relies too much on being ignorant

[brittle totem]

I HATE KING KAHN GAUNTLETS SO MUCH ISTFG

[fiery burrow]

Oh I get wanting more fleshed out stuff I just didn't get what was really ambiguous yknow

[hardy tangle]

forgot dung defender he's also better than half the hk npcs

[ashen heron]

hornet in hk had less lines than lace im pretty sure and yet people cared about hornet 10x more

[spark anchor]

Yes girl

[earnest drift]

“I can’t go to Isma’s grove because of my oath”
“I don’t know that the pale king is dead i know he’ll return”

how did Isma even die why wasn’t ogrim there for her

[spark anchor]

More fleshing out of worldbuilding with a silksong wanderer’s journal book

[devout oak]

"i cant stop ragebaiting kids in #sk-discussion "

[hardy tangle]

she turned herself into a tree as a sacrifice idk

[spark anchor]

That’s what im talkin about

[hardy tangle]

hk character try not to turn into tree challenge

[devout oak]

dont worry its only 3 of them

[spark anchor]

But yes white defender still made more questions than answers

[earnest drift]

ambiguity strikes again

[earnest drift]

“black Wyrm” EXCUSE ME WHAT

[fiery burrow]

If there's another artbook like WJ I hope it takes place in Pharloom's prime tbh

[graceful cairn]

kinda what makes her interesting imo

[hardy tangle]

not the main lore so it really doesn't matter all too much

[fiery burrow]

For better worldbuilding but also so we can get art of prime Khann and Karmelita

[trim estuary]

we're NEVER getting a living kingdom

[hardy tangle]

opens up for more theories and headcanon

[devout oak]

chat give me top 10 silksong ost NOW

[earnest drift]

you know what is part of the main lore? radiance, hollow knight’s biggest failure

[spark anchor]

Whiteward ambience

[umbral wasp]

Nyleth

[subtle lynx]

We can finally get coral gourge

[hardy tangle]

not everything gotta be chewed and spat in your mouth

[umbral wasp]

Last dive

[earnest drift]

I’ve been here for too long bye

[devout oak]

(!!) brilliant

[fiery burrow]

This part of awakening specifically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK1X_9EOmhQ&t=188s

[earnest drift]

don’t miss me too much

[umbral wasp]

Choral chambers

[graceful cairn]

yeah thats fair

[hardy tangle]

phantom

[subtle lynx]

Choral chambers
High halls
Lace
Bilewater
Greymour
Strive
Enter pharloom
Moss grotto
Uhhh

[umbral wasp]

The mist

[subtle lynx]

I can't think of more

[hardy tangle]

high halls would be better than chambers if it was longer

[umbral wasp]

Red maiden

[subtle lynx]

TRUE

[devout oak]

no cogwork dancers or trobbio?

[umbral wasp]

Lost lace

[devout oak]

fair

[subtle lynx]

I forgot cogwork dancers and cogwork core

Trobbio is mid

[umbral wasp]

I also like red memory

[subtle lynx]

That one is good too

[fiery burrow]

Enter Pharloom is the peak

[subtle lynx]

That's like washed white palace

[hardy tangle]

Christopher Larkin should make the best silk song ost of all time then end up not using it

[fiery burrow]

Mosshome theme is great and its not on the soundtrack btw

Hive theme 2

[umbral wasp]

Lowk Christopher larkin cooked so much it’s hard to choose just 10

[sharp slate]

Just got back but, unbreakables aren't needed for 100% you guys are purposely misconstruing my point

[hardy tangle]

when silk court

[graceful cairn]

goat is washed

[subtle lynx]

I like the five minute version someone did on yt with the "less epic" versions that play on the game

Low-key shared some tears when I heard it in game

[subtle lynx]

This game has lot of hives 2.0

[fiery burrow]

The citadel entrance soundtrack 😔

Although none of them are quite as bad as the hive because for some reason the buzzing of the bees is part of the audio file for its theme so you can't listen to it normally

[subtle lynx]

https://youtu.be/9e4rT-RxypM?si=c7dP3_HsvACGwtTr

[normal bramble]

Trobbio is the goat…

[heady iron]

memorium being a whole area with its own music and not being on the ost is criminal

[normal bramble]

Unless we’re talking about themes

In which I agree regular trobbio is meh (I love tormented trobbio tho)

[subtle lynx]

I want to listen to the diluted version of moss grotto

however, the worst case of hive-theme-illness is actually city of tears extended version

[hardy tangle]

white lady is underrated

[subtle lynx]

the one in spotify is shortened

[hardy tangle]

feel like nobody talks about white lady ost

[fiery burrow]

WL OST is good

[subtle lynx]

where is SOUL SANCTUM

also, pure vessel mid

[fiery burrow]

Its just PK's theme though and its lowk sexist how Team Cherry boiled down her character to just being the Pale King girl

Why would they do this

[subtle lynx]

soul sanctum is the best boss theme in hk outside of sealed vessel

[zinc wharf]

I’m currently at the point where I’m at the most loaded going into Cogwork Dancers - how should I embarrass them?

[heady iron]

cause the first game is centered around male characters with a male protagonist, silksong is more mother-themed

[umbral wasp]

Tools only

[subtle lynx]

more? every character in this game is female ffs

[earnest drift]

fuck you mean male protagonist

[fiery burrow]

#sk-lore smoked me for like a week when I said HK was about masculinity and SS was about femininity

[zinc wharf]

Too tame - I could do that with a few Snare Setter snares. I need something with more pizzazz

[fiery burrow]

Media literacy is dead 😔

[subtle lynx]

even the hunter in bellheart is female

but for some reason, the moss druid isn't

[earnest drift]

silksong is about femininity yes how tf is hk about masculinity

[umbral wasp]

Tools only no snare setter

[zinc wharf]

Bruh, you know what I mean.

[light swan]

pale king was a man

[heady iron]

the hollow knight

[light swan]

boom

[devout oak]

hollow knight is about nothing, because it needs no theme

[earnest drift]

yes I know
and the ending is two enbies and a woman teaming up to defeat a woman
where the fuck does masculinity fit in

[umbral wasp]

Uhhhh do it while cursed

[zinc wharf]

How

[devout oak]

what next are you gonna talk about how the geometry dash shopkeeper is badly written

[umbral wasp]

Idk

[zinc wharf]

How do I reach the twisted bud without already having clobbered those putrid dancers

[subtle lynx]

to this guy, everything that is not told up front is badly written

[hardy tangle]

we need more clear backstory

[subtle lynx]

hk has bad lore because shop keeper lemm doesn't tell you everything to your face

[earnest drift]

and yes I agree pale king and white ladies relajonship is a representation of heteronormativity because pale king was literally using her to make children to the point she didn’t want to do it ever again

[hardy tangle]

relic seeker lemm*

[shrewd falcon]

Hi people

[subtle lynx]

or because pale king didn't have a 32 page lore tablet explaining what he did

[umbral wasp]

Do floor is lava challenge

Don’t touch the floor

[fiery burrow]

Well The Hollow Knight is representative of repressing your emotions like in toxic masculinity which is contrasted by The Knight accepting itself and its emotions instead of burying them deep down, which is done by getting the King's Brand, making it a masculine icon. In a sense it becomes a man, going from a metaphorically and literally genderless vessel to the King

[subtle lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/tuff-how-bro-felt-after-saying-that-homer-simpson-tuffaholic-gif-16018237484688283235

[hardy tangle]

tf is that word daaawg

[spark anchor]

There’s themes and all that but i have critiques on throwaway lines that the game never addresses ever again

[zinc wharf]

I’ve already been beaten to the punch with that.

[spark anchor]

Like who the hell is the black wyrm

[hardy tangle]

white lady a freak! 😝

[umbral wasp]

No needle

[devout oak]

relic seeker lemm sucks because he doesnt call a buddy of his to look at the artifacts you bring

[spark anchor]

Sometimes tc just adds stuff i feel

[fiery burrow]

Its flavor text that has no bearing on the lore does it need to be addressed

[zinc wharf]

Snares

[umbral wasp]

Silk only

[hardy tangle]

velmi artrid..

[earnest drift]

oh ok I see what you mean

[fiery burrow]

Like the point of the entry is that Ogrim fought a lot of legendary battles and I think the fans kinda missed the forest for the trees because the word "wyrm" was used

[hardy tangle]

baba gundala

[fiery burrow]

No one talks about the Knotted Grove or Champion's Call

[subtle lynx]

that makes the game feel more alive and real, if you do archelogy or panteology irl, you won't find all the explainations

[fiery burrow]

Thank you

[spark anchor]

I guess youre right

[subtle lynx]

you're basically being an archeologyst in hk

[spark anchor]

But let me go back to silksong’s least fleshed out “major” character

Nyleth.

[earnest drift]

she’s not really major

[umbral wasp]

Silk only?

[fiery burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/trobbio-true-silksong-hollow-knight-truebbio-gif-4872516641731648376

[hardy tangle]

scrounge is ass compared to lemm tho i think everyone can agree on that

[spark anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/adin-adinross-what-does-he-even-do-adin-what-does-he-even-do-what-does-he-even-do-meme-gif-7301893521340817246

This is how nyleth feels

[devout oak]

nyleth was just so chill

[fiery burrow]

Nyleth was rewritten a lot in development it seems

[earnest drift]

the least fleshed out major character in silksong might be uh
the weavers?

[subtle lynx]

Unn is also not fleshed out and I think it makes sense, they are not important to the lore of the game and their people were incapable of writing

[hardy tangle]

adin moss thats moss growing on his head

[devout oak]

the conductors

[fiery burrow]

Originally Seth was guarding a character named "The Voice" which bestowed upon him supernatural endurance and speed

[spark anchor]

Make shellwood and go into stasis or some shi and made seth her eternal guardian

[earnest drift]

good answer

[trim estuary]

can we talk about a duology with good lore. like UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE Five Night's At Freddy's!

[fiery burrow]

There was some like secret behind it and now there's nothing other than what looks to be another member of Isma's species

[zinc wharf]

Is that possible? I don’t have Egg of Flealia nor all Silk Hearts, so I can’t cast infinite spells. Thus, I would need to kill the Cogwork Dancers with ~4 Silk Skills, which I don’t think is doable.

[spark anchor]

Huh never read that anywhere

[umbral wasp]

Druids eye?

[spark anchor]

ACMI boutta display unused content for everyone to see

[fiery burrow]

It was in like 2020 or 2021 when Leth organized a bunch of riddles that led to new info about characters

[spark anchor]

Oh okay

[earnest drift]

look I don’t think having three out of the four old hearts being well fleshed out is terrible

[subtle lynx]

yeah they threw that idea away, but I don't think that has to do with nyleth but rather seth's story getting changed and deleted and seth being reporpused to what he is rn. Since act 3 didn't exist until much later than seth

[fiery burrow]

Green Prince is the only fleshed out one

[spark anchor]

Khann’s second to green prince I feel

[fiery burrow]

Yeah Seth himself also got rewritten and it sucks because he really has no reason to be killing everyone trying to enter a shrine to Nyleth

[hardy tangle]

whats so fleshed out about karmelita lorewise not design

[zinc wharf]

That gives me ~2 more strands of silk, unless I combine it with Plasmium (which is Architect only, so no-go), so like 5 casts instead of 4? Still don’t think that’s possible.

[trim estuary]

the skarr exist and that's it
nyleth exists and that's it
khann and his army existed and dried out
boom thats it

[heady iron]

notice how the most fleshed out hearts are male

[spark anchor]

Who knows maybe a pilgrim has elegy of the deep and wants to kill nyleth

[subtle lynx]

wdym karmelita is fleshed out

khan is basically not

[hardy tangle]

she sings and was op and was the queen thats really all we know

[subtle lynx]

we don't know anything related to how khan thinks or his character basically

[umbral wasp]

What stuff do you have

[subtle lynx]

and she'd do anything for her people

[hardy tangle]

lord fool is more intersting than every old heart

this is ragebait i dont actually think that

[subtle lynx]

that's enough

[hardy tangle]

but lord fool is very interesting

[fiery burrow]

Oh also there's still some dialogue mentioning the voice in the game I think it was the phacia needolin dialogue

[hardy tangle]

kinda basic but alright

[zinc wharf]

Level 1 Needle, Silk Spear/Thread Storm/Cross Stitch, and gimme a moment to pull up pictures of all my tools.

[fiery burrow]

I think originally all the hearts were going to be music themed since Khann's tower was also called the "choral tower" but now its just karmelita

[orchid spruce]

jngocreates ragebaiting is not what i expected

[spark anchor]

Maybe the dlc after sos will expand on certain characters

[umbral wasp]

Alr

[heady iron]

would she eat a taco bell crunchwrap supreme on camera

[spark anchor]

Maybe sos will expand on some existing ones

[subtle lynx]

we don't need more

[trim estuary]

he doesnt ragebait wdym

[hardy tangle]

i mean id like more

couldve given ant tribe and khann ties

[orchid spruce]

yeah sure, he doesn't

[hardy tangle]

made them interact with eachother or mention eachother

[hardy tangle]

is he ok

oh i thought that was seth lmao

[devout oak]

i cant wait for sea of sorrow

[broken seal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1332161685196374095/1380557384476262512/attachment.gif

[spark anchor]

Sos next week

[zinc wharf]

Also forgot to mention, I’ve got Hunter’s, Reaper, and Wanderer Crest, and I could get Architect.

[hardy tangle]

sea of yesterday

[zinc wharf]

(And I also have Sharpdart, which I also forgot to mention)

[spark anchor]

Get the vesticrest

Also evolve hunter if ur gonna dedicate yourself to using it

[broken seal]

bro go back to Moss Grotto and go all the way right in the room with the moss berry two transitions before Moss Mother fight

[hardy tangle]

why is it tf2

[zinc wharf]

I want myself to be somewhat weaker on this file, and that involves me not upgrading my Hunter’s Crest

[undone gate]

To get the vesticrest you have to evolve hunter

[broken seal]

if you want to be weaker just use Reaper

[zinc wharf]

I’m going to be using this file to refight bosses like Bell Beast, upgrading Hunter is overkill.

[spark anchor]

Proceeds to use sawtooth, voltvessels and snare setter

[zinc wharf]

Slow

[daring basin]

It’s true, many of us here have PTSD aka
Post Traumatic Sk-Discussion

[umbral wasp]

Do rosary cannon only and become broke

[spark anchor]

I will use this old shotgun with god slayer shells

[broken seal]

best blue tool with insane dps, very high damage red tool (one of the best) 😭

[zinc wharf]

I can at least choose to not use those.

[subtle lynx]

me when I see mio talk

[hardy tangle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1425750070434857113/1426503896259625041/caption.gif

[broken seal]

just purposefully get hit every time you hit something 5 times so you never activate the Hunter passive

[zinc wharf]

Oooh, I like it. Let’s hope RNG is on my side…

[undone gate]

If you really want to be weaker then do a no tool run

[broken seal]

dude we're not even talking about crest slop what 😭😭😭

[zinc wharf]

Getting hit is disgusting

[hardy tangle]

we were posting sk discussion slander gifs

[spark anchor]

Its not that kind of crest discourse

[broken seal]

what is this based on

[subtle lynx]

how good they are

[broken seal]

ohhh lmao

[broken seal]

..what

[devout oak]

s tier is correct, everything else is irrelevant

[magic night]

how many attempts did it take you guys for last judge

[undone gate]

Cross Stitch in D tier is insane

[north ore]

kinda funny how reaper fixes its low dps against sister splinter in particular by needing the least jump time before it can attack

[subtle lynx]

a couple, not much

[umbral wasp]

Cross stitch is good

[fiery burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/true-feel-that-thats-true-gif-7410050725709839510

[subtle lynx]

cross shit sucks

[broken seal]

elaborate

[umbral wasp]

It’s at least aura

[north ore]

cross stitch is good if you enjoy using it

[fiery burrow]

parryslop

[umbral wasp]

It’s aura

[hardy tangle]

i hate fun

[fiery burrow]

no one enjoys parryslop they just like sekiro

[mental snow]

I misheard "Evolved Hunter's Crest" as "Vault Hunter's Crest" and now I'm imagining a Crest with the Borderlands logo

[subtle lynx]

you have to almost get hit to do the same thing as other spells

[hardy tangle]

iframes

[north ore]

skong is one of the least parryslop games oat tf are you on

[subtle lynx]

parryslop enjoyers when they can't parry a girl into liking them

[undone gate]

It allows you to not get hit and do the same things as other spells

[broken seal]

this tier list is supposedly based on how good the skills are, so putting something based on disliking it or thinking it's slop is ridiculous lol

[hardy tangle]

ermmm shartfart!

[fiery burrow]

are you fr

[subtle lynx]

it is easier to just avoid dmg

[fiery burrow]

Parryslop isn't serious but it does actually have a parry

[mental snow]

Hey that's mean >:(

[north ore]

jesus christ did yall get so bored of hating on crests that youve moved to silk skills now

[subtle lynx]

you also can't just react fast enough to use cross shit but not fast enough to just move out of the way

[broken seal]

it's whole purpose is safety, the damage is the reason why it's so much crazier. your needle/tool dps is gonna be higher than silk skill dps (except for Shaman), so using a silk skill purely for damage is weird when Cross Stitch gives good damage while also keeping you safe and allowing you to play MUCH more aggressively without getting punished

[undone gate]

Your also wasteing damage then even if Cross Stitch is not something you like there is no way it's worse than Rune Rage

[mental snow]

Brother, you're just now noticing people hate on Silk Skills now?

[north ore]

thats why you learn the attacks and their telegraphs

[subtle lynx]

you can safely use rune ruge

[broken seal]

Cross Stitch is VERY safe

[subtle lynx]

dude the bosses ain't that hard, just move out of the way

[zinc wharf]

It is time for me to viciously gun down the Cogwork Dancers

[undone gate]

You need to use it as an alternate bind and hope a lot of orbs hit the boss

[north ore]

"just draw the out" all over again

[subtle lynx]

I did a playthrough basically only using cross shit and it was never worth it

[hardy tangle]

cross stitch is fun so i use it who cares about meta unless youre speedrunning

[broken seal]

and you lose dps for the time you're dodging when instead you can play 5x more aggro and replace getting hit with a cross stitch that still does good damage and gives iframes to let you keep doing aggro dps

[zinc wharf]

And if I can’t finish them with Rosary Cannon, I’ll just poke them to death with the Needle Phial instead

[subtle lynx]

I switched when I got pale nails cause I couldn't take it anymore

[hardy tangle]

pale nails looks boring asf im sorry

[north ore]

just ate the most greasy noodles I have ever prepared cuz im out of sesame oil and put in too much butter by accident

but holy fuck that was good

my tongue has climaxed

[subtle lynx]

dodge + thread storm or pale nails

[normal bramble]

This is like the worst way to think of using cross stitch though

[umbral wasp]

Good idea

[broken seal]

you don't use Cross Stitch like other Silk Skills because it compliments needle dps builds (which are strictly better than silk skill dps unless using shaman)

[undone gate]

I do like Pale Nails more than Cross Stitch but I still think Cross Stitch is decent since I have seen it's insane potential

[subtle lynx]

the worst way to think of using a skill is... to think of using it?

yeah for cross shit that makes sense

[normal bramble]

To basically force yourself to use it yes

[devout oak]

are there any in depth videos on silksong speedrunning and are there any mods to practice something like the high halls gauntlet

[normal bramble]

Cross stitch is something that you can have and can use in any scenario when you’re about to be hit or in a scenario where you know you can easily get hit for it

[versed pollen]

I think there's a speedrun tools mod with save states and the like

[north ore]

I cannot fathom the concept of a non-shaman silk-focused build

im sure they exist but it just doesnt clock for me

its like using an Eldlich deck without running Pot of Extravagance

[leaden delta]

Cross stitch is frame 1 btw

[pastel plank]

I just realized GMS is one of two only enemies out of both HK games with no contact damage

[normal bramble]

Like I adore witch crest and cross stitch is basically the main silk skill I always use as there’s so many scenarios where you can throw in a cross stitch

[broken seal]

no guarantee you can land a good thread storm + going for needle dps is going to be better anyway. Cross Stitch lets you keep attacking right in the enemy's face until right before they hit you, which you can then cross stitch to safely take 0 damage while dealing good damage, which also gives you iframes to react to what the enemy does next or to use another cross stitch if needed or to go back to using needle dps, which will always be better than dodging and using thread storm

[north ore]

see? the Gods are humble. turn to their religions

[versed pollen]

I logically understand the stitch is strong but my reaction speed is slow and I can never accurately use it

[undone gate]

Fourth Chorus, Father Of The Flame also have no contact damage

[brittle totem]

Victim of witch crest stockholm syndrome

[rocky jolt]

skrill fourth chorus father of the flame

[pastel plank]

Don't the lanterns have contact damage?

[north ore]

correct attitude

recognise it's a personal decision without hating

[undone gate]

They don't

[normal bramble]

Since you chain dash attacks so often there’s so many scenarios where you can use cross stitch and it’s the best silk skill for maintaining the fast tempo of witch crest imo

[pastel plank]

Okay, then there are 4

[normal bramble]

True….

[rocky jolt]

the tiny mushrooms in fungal wastes have no contact damage

[brittle totem]

those aren't enemies genuis

[rocky jolt]

radiance doesnt have it either

what bro

[north ore]

none of the enemies actually have contact damage, Ghost and Hornet just stab themselves each time it happens as a way to train their reflexes

[broken seal]

Silk Skills aren't like Spells in HK, they are MUCH less overpowered and needle dps/tool is always going to outclass it (unless you're using Shaman) so using a silk skill that does good damage doesn't make sense because it loses time you could've used by beating shit up with your needle

[pastel plank]

true..

[pastel plank]

wait doesn't she?

[north ore]

"with the sole exception of the shaman crest of course"

[rocky jolt]

i dont think so

[pastel plank]

okay I'm dumb I depart in shame

[undone gate]

She doesn't have contact damage

[hardy tangle]

oh my god bruh

[rocky jolt]

no no its okay you only have 45k hours in hollow knight

[normal bramble]

Imo you use silk skills for the utility more than the damage

[versed pollen]

Well unless you play safe and use silk spear from 10 miles away or something. You're not losing much of any DPS if you were never going to hit the boss

[undone gate]

I thought by the 2 enemies you meant Radience and GMS

[pastel plank]

I legit have like 400 hours in HK and about 300 hours in SS 😭

[normal bramble]

Thread storm has good crowd control
Spear has range for it
Dart has the movement
And cross stitch is a full counter

[brittle totem]

Shaman + Volt filament = the strongest crest by a far margin

[north ore]

fax

sharp dart is sitting on my Ducts exploration kit for the single defined purpose of actually being able to hit the shit squits

[hardy tangle]

menderbug probably has no contact damage yup

[normal bramble]

Pale nails is just extra range and uh… rune rage exists

[tight viper]

Believe it or not, but Savage Beastfly does not have contact damage

[north ore]

rune rage is like focus blast

low accuracy high reward

[broken seal]

DDark was insane cuz it did very good damage and had ridiculous I-frames, but in SK spell builds are only viable over needle/tool builds if you're using Shamans crest, so Cross Stitch giving insane I-Frames allows you to continue your needle dps which will always be the best case

[brittle totem]

rune rage is so ahh even though the boss fight to gain it was so cool

[versed pollen]

ddark are more than insane ddark was game breaking should have been removed from the game

[umbral wasp]

And the birds in both games

[hardy tangle]

brooding mawlek while in the background has no contact damage

[normal bramble]

Ok but 90% of pokemon who use focus blast just have no other option

[north ore]

needle dps will always outclass silk skills, with the sole exception of the shaman crest.

[undone gate]

First Sinner is one of the best bosses in the game

[broken seal]

https://tenor.com/view/ss-sk-skong-silk-song-gif-6069929492524291916

[normal bramble]

99% of Pokemon who use focus blast wouldn’t use it if lucario didn’t gatekeep aura sphere

[north ore]

how dare you, my alakazam has plenty of options, he's just humble and believes in fair game

[brittle totem]

yeah, the boss fight was cool and the spell was so bad it made me quit the game for a week

[normal bramble]

Surely

[tight viper]

Eh, Focus Blast does more damage on average, it can be worth it

84 to 80

[rocky jolt]

imagine having a worse reward than voltwyrm

[normal bramble]

True but the 30% miss rate is like so evil

[north ore]

certainly

its an alakazam

he doesnt make mistakes

I even named him Dark Magician for extra aura

[tight viper]

Yes, but that 40 extra base power can mean the difference between a two shot and a one shot

[north ore]

the debate of whether to run bullet punch or extreme speed on lucaro

[normal bramble]

And the 30% less accuracy could mean you just never kill at all

[tight viper]

It's a fine gamble to make if you need a one shot to win

[normal bramble]

Maybe I’m just unlucky but I like never would take the risk

[north ore]

hell yeah gambling I love gambling

[rocky jolt]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1087207488274833550/1238197941898838130/attachment.gif

[north ore]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-manga-hakari-kashimo-jujutsu-kaisen-jjk-gif-17155997190839373770

[hardy tangle]

life of luxury

[normal bramble]

Also dark magician the alakazam LMAO

[rocky jolt]

life of luxury spooked me out

[zinc wharf]

Okay yeah no I can’t do it.

[broken seal]

While this is supposedly true, if your pokemon dies because it missed the focus blast, then aura sphere will be better. For setup sweepers i'd say aura sphere is a better option, but focus blast will be better for non-setup sweepers in general

[normal bramble]

I just realized (peak name fr)

[zinc wharf]

Needle Phial is too awful to close it off in any regards

[mental snow]

Thanks for your shitty fucking hitboxes, Wanderer Crest

The needle was hitting the fat rat's body but I guess the lines in the code weren't, there goes my Steel Soul run

[normal bramble]

Ya I guess it does come down to “can the pokemon live long enough to afford a miss or two and hit hard enough for focus blast to be worth it”

[north ore]

the entire team is called Dark Magic Attack, its a psy surge exp force sweep

if DM dies I still have hatterene and armarouge, and both hatt and indeedee have trick room, just incase

and I have the mandatory ferrothorn

never leave home without your ferrothorn

[spark anchor]

Thefatrat?

[worldly lake]

focus blast vs aura sphere does depend yeah

[broken seal]

Unity

[worldly lake]

on the other hand however

who even has aura sphere

[shell wing]

I finally got 100%!!

[normal bramble]

I’ve always wanted to try a trick room team out tbh

[zinc wharf]

Latios

[north ore]

aura sphere if your mon has it

a better cover option if your mon has that

else focus blast

thats the exact list I followed when putting it on DM

[tight viper]

For a setup sweeper sure, it gets the extra power it needs for a kill from boosting its sp.atk so the extra damage of focus blast may not be as important. I'm talking about a non-setup breaker in a situation where a failure to one shot will result in a loss no matter what, so that sweeper would lose if it was running aura sphere

[normal bramble]

Maybe when pokemon champions drops I’ll try it

[distant prawn]

son

[north ore]

be aware of people who will try to predict your trick room and set their own on the same turn to negate it

[distant prawn]

is this smogon or vgc

[north ore]

natdex doubles

[broken seal]

Yeah that's fair lmao

[distant prawn]

have the ZA megas been released?

[north ore]

also limit to 1 starter and no legendaries/mythicals/etc for pure sportsbugship

[normal bramble]

Personally my most played is Gen 3 OU lmfao

I love Gen 3 ou so much and I can’t even explain why

[north ore]

with the sole exception of my mono fire team because there are NO good fire types that ik of

but even then its only the starter rule being broken

still no legends

[tight viper]

the humble torkoal:

[north ore]

maybe because it's the same format that introduced shedinja

[normal bramble]

True 🤔

[north ore]

too slow for me to consider without liligant

and the mono fire is a singles team anyway

[normal bramble]

(Let’s ignore the fact that gen 3 might actually be the worst sheninja format of all time)

Permanent sand and spikes everywhere 🔥

[north ore]

whats the point of eruption if you lose 90% of your hp to an earthquake before it can hit once

[worldly lake]

evil and intimidating speed boost blaziken

[broken seal]

You can run Typhlosion + H-Typhlosion both with Scarf Eruption 😘

[hardy tangle]

apparently everyone plays pokemon

[north ore]

im already running cinderace, incineroar and charizard

and in doing so Ive broken my rule of 1 starter per team

3 starters is my absolute limit

[broken seal]

you do not need allat lol

[tight viper]

Volcarona, Iron Moth

[north ore]

like I said I do NOT know any good fire types

the rest of the team is an oven, Absolute Radiance and Silver Chariot

[tight viper]

Harcanine is alright

[worldly lake]

half your team is starters bruh the fire type situation cannot be that bad 😭

[normal bramble]

It ABSOLUTELY can

[north ore]

thats what Im saying 😭

[broken seal]

scarf eruption is great for typhlosion and whatnot and torkoal works with trick room eruption

[worldly lake]

volcarona?

[normal bramble]

Good Fire types have three sides : banned from OU, Starters, or legendaries

[normal bramble]

Banned from OU prob

[tight viper]

trick room's kinda shit in singles tho

[north ore]

thats the Radiant part of the team

dont leave home without volc on your fire and bug teams

[worldly lake]

oh right

[broken seal]

Volcarona

[normal bramble]

Wait what

[tight viper]

I figured they meant natdex singles

[normal bramble]

Volc is legal in Nat Dex doubles???

[tight viper]

since they mentioned natdex doubles earlier

[broken seal]

it's good with certain pivots but with mono fire your best options don't work

[north ore]

putting this here so I dont get 10 more people suggesting volcarona

[normal bramble]

I just always assumed volcorona was one of those pokemon that get banned to Ubers everywhere

Icl

[worldly lake]

salazzle?

do some toxic spike sillies

[tight viper]

It's only broken with tera

[normal bramble]

Fair I guess

[worldly lake]

unless it doesn't know tox spikes

it's been a while

[north ore]

forgot that and typh existed ngl

might swap cinderace just to Tackle the starter situation

(get it)

[tight viper]

is iron moth just not an option

paradoxes aren't legends

[north ore]

yk what lets do it

swap a sash user for a sash user

maintain items clause even tho it isnt enforced

[normal bramble]

Iron moth isn’t fire type

[tight viper]

it's fire/poison

[normal bramble]

Wait I’m fucking dumb

[north ore]

I consider them part of the pool of mons that a regular trainer can never hope to encounter, let alone catch, let alone tame and train

[worldly lake]

🗣️ 🔥

[tight viper]

Slither wing's the non-fire dude

[broken seal]

def gonna want a Moltres or Heatran on here lol

[normal bramble]

I realized RIGHT after saying

[void moat]

i had a huge showdown phase awhile back should i post my team

[worldly lake]

no myth/legendaries

[north ore]

@broken seal

[broken seal]

NEVERMIND I FORGOT ABOUT THE NO MYTHS OR LEGENDA MB

[normal bramble]

I had “it’s bug fighting” typed and ready before I realized my stupidity

[north ore]

plus I wouldnt use heatran anyway

I FUCKING hate heatran

mf does NOT need to be that tanky AND hit that hard

[broken seal]

alolan marowak works pretty good ngl

[void moat]

https://pokepast.es/abaeeeafe35cff65 heres my old showdown team, gen 9 ou iirc

[light swan]

oh i thought we were talking about silkmons again

[north ore]

she was on the mono ghost/fire team I made one time out of spite for the spoiling that ghost/fire typing gets

[worldly lake]

chandelure?

oh nah

[broken seal]

And Typhlosion almost always wants to be on mono fire teams tbh

[minor plank]

I’m begging team Cherry for SOS announcement this week, actually BEGGING

[worldly lake]

what does chandelure even do

[void moat]

good for trick room teams iirc

[broken seal]

It has so much special attack

[hardy tangle]

its over

[light swan]

man i still can’t believe reaper can spogo too

makes the crest a lot stronger

[north ore]

blacephalon, chandelure, Hisuian typh, Silver Chariot, Alolan marowack, skeledirge

only double type ik of that has enough separate lines for its own team

[normal bramble]

Game freak has zero type combination favorites

😇

[rough anvil]

IM CRYING

[north ore]

lets go back in time and convince them to make flygon the first bug/dragon

[normal bramble]

Nuh uh specifically because that would make flygon worse in gen 3 ou

[void moat]

is it cool chat

[north ore]

ok then lets at least convince them to include it and flygon in ONE gen's gimmick

noivern****

[normal bramble]

Now see That I agree with

[worldly lake]

coalossal for hazard setting perhaps?

[north ore]

give mega noivern aerilate so it can hit stab boomburst

[normal bramble]

Noivern being the 100th flying dragon type for zero reason

When bug dragon was still right thereeee

[void moat]

what type of team are you building? and for what gen

[worldly lake]

nevermind that guy probably only has stealth rock

[broken seal]

the bat being a bug..?

[north ore]

noivern's design doesnt suit the bug typing

unlike flygon

[worldly lake]

suggestions for mono fire

[north ore]

https://tenor.com/view/flygon-pokemon-dragon-dragonfly-hyperbeam-gif-18683905

shit is literally a dragonfly dragon

[normal bramble]

Seems very ground type to me

[worldly lake]

though i am reminded of that one silly crit drapion build

[void moat]

not sure if turtonator is good but it probably learns some hazards

[worldly lake]

i used

[hardy tangle]

the most ground thing ever

[north ore]

it floats, Destiny.

[north hedge]

Im so good i just beat groal in one try

[normal bramble]

Leviatate!

Shrimple

[north ore]

how bout you levitate up to some bitches

[worldly lake]

its such a bug creature

[north hedge]

i didn't even touch him with my needle

[broken seal]

it has wings, Destiny. It flies.

[north ore]

give scizor a 60 str 100% acc bug attack that hits twice

bug type is so shit it deserves to have at least 1 op move

[worldly lake]

flygon's entire evolution line is bug looking

[hardy tangle]

double bug bash

[normal bramble]

Anyways yes flygon’s evo line is based on bugs

[broken seal]

make it have a chance to raise any random stat of the user or lower any stat of the enemy, or both (per hit)

[normal bramble]

But said bugs main feature is that they live in deserts and trap enemies in sand pits

[north ore]

I was thinking we could call it Scissor Blades and have it be scizor's signature

keep it on theme ykykyk

[normal bramble]

Hence why it’s a ground type

[broken seal]

so ground bug

[normal bramble]

Now see

That would actually make infinitely more sense

[north ore]

nincada mentioned, very cool

[broken seal]

With the new dragonise ability that mega feraligatr gets

so it gets dragon normal moves and stronger dragon type attacks

[north ore]

too op

its already acting 180 bp on a regular move

[broken seal]

[hardy tangle]

60 power hits twice is js melmetal sig without flinch chance

[north ore]

on technician*

[normal bramble]

Except infinitely better since uh ya ^

[broken seal]

technician boosted

[north ore]

plus scissor themed

and bug type

[hardy tangle]

we should buff frosmoth instead

[north ore]

aka best type

[broken seal]

MAKE IT PRIORITY

[normal bramble]

There’s nothing you can do to buff frosmoth

[broken seal]

Bro got bug month pilled soooo hard

[normal bramble]

Ice bug typing was like doomed from reveal 😭

[worldly lake]

how about chance for priority

[north ore]

gmax frosmoth and its max move guarantees both itself and the target are frozen

[normal bramble]

It would still probably never be used as even dynamaxed it still probably dies to the first bit of flame that it touches

[tight viper]

Don't remember their ev spreads but this was a fun team I used to run, called it Chunky Monkey

[north ore]

hoopa dies if you throw a caterpie at it and it can sweep entire teams by itself, no trick room or anything

[broken seal]

give it the bst of eternamax eternatus (minmaxed for min attack) and give it an ability that combines fluffy (no extra fire weakness) with ice scales with multiscale with shell armor with queenly majestly with simple with tinted lens with inner focus with initimidate with snow warning with punk rock

[normal bramble]

252 Atk Life Orb Ceruledge Bitter Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Frosmoth: 1128-1331 (401.4 - 473.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Oh my lord I was gonna give it max evs and stuff but I genuinely don’t think it matters

[worldly lake]

silly

[north ore]

predict bitter blade switch to rapidash

[normal bramble]

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Frosmoth: 1660-1960 (590.7 - 697.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

[north ore]

predict stone edge switch to lucario

[normal bramble]

Switch gets predicted and they low kick instead

[north ore]

or just switch to lucario anyway it dunks ttar

[north ore]

predict predict switch to ceruledge

[normal bramble]

Unpredicts their prediction and go back to stone edge

[broken seal]

oh yeah add wonder guard + mold breaker + well baked body + lightning rod + storm drain + levitate + wind rider + soundproof + bulletproof + good as gold + purifying salt + unaware + moody + speed boost + have it learn stored power

[worldly lake]

predict low kick and quiver dance

[north ore]

predict unpredict safe switch to aegislash

[normal bramble]

Says “forget all this predicting” and just clicks knock off and gets lucky

[north ore]

predict that switch to (un)mega lucario

(justified btw)

[worldly lake]

decide to sac frosmoth and watch stone edge miss

[normal bramble]

Atp this is more predicting then the average vgc match has as a whole

For one singular switch

[pastel plank]

waittt you don't get a point for the Rite of Rebirth???

[north ore]

still less internal monologue than a single panel of Death Note

[normal bramble]

True

[worldly lake]

unfortunate doesn't begin to describe my series, this game rewards blind luck and nothing else, i am beyond convinced at this point...

[north ore]

we should all just drop every other game and all play 2020 era bewd

[normal bramble]

Smth smth insert the rest of lavos’s speech

fact : that entire speech is perfectly replicated by every person who ever plays Gen 4 OU and gets hit by Jirachi serene grace iron head + para spam

Not because they know the speech but because the experience is just that bad

[north ore]

why is this how I find out theyre finally giving toons an ed

[worldly lake]

togekiss thunderwave + air slash

[north ore]

holy shit this mf is really good

[worldly lake]

god

[north ore]

I should build toons again

[normal bramble]

Solid actually

Damn

[north ore]

this in doubles except I always forget I have it and use her solely for tailwind follow me

[worldly lake]

lmao

[broken seal]

"Unfortunate" doesn't begin to describe-

[north ore]

what abt super luck choice band togekiss

[worldly lake]

i have a friend who really likes quagsire so he made his entire team quagsires and clodsires

[broken seal]

Quagsire ew

[north ore]

quagsire hate will not be tolerated

[worldly lake]

it was unironically a crime against humanity

it actually worked

[north ore]

"fork found in kitchen"

[worldly lake]

oh wait no

not entirely -sires

he had one hisuian zoroark

[void moat]

the masculine urge to want to teambuild around metang

[broken seal]

It will be because wooper/paldean wooper/clodsire>>>>

[north ore]

include quagsire in that list lil bug

[broken seal]

idk if this is masculine, i'd describe it more as the "psychopathic" urge to do whatever this is

[broken seal]

no

wooper>quagsire

[void moat]

youve no imagination

consider bullet punch replaced with double edge

[broken seal]

Screens with no light clay

[void moat]

mf it's metang im not running anything other than eviolite

[worldly lake]

metal burst 💔

[broken seal]

what format is this because it's probably bulky enough to survive enough for light clay to be worth more + you want to run double edge with no recovery it's not like it'll last long even with eviolite 😭

[void moat]

metang dont learn ts

[void moat]

im thinking just gen 9 ou

[light swan]

doubles ❤️

[graceful oyster]

Bobbitt go play Mio

[void moat]

im not good enough for doubles im not very good at pokemon

[void moat]

im sick and i dont wanna wait for my switch to charge

[graceful oyster]

You'd be even more sick if you played Mio

No that's fine whatever

It's not going anywhere

[void moat]

mmm i could also teambuild around assault vest regice

[zinc wharf]

I think someone did that and placed top cut in a regional recently.

[void moat]

oh that's cool

probably better than metang too

[worldly lake]

cursed 🔥 🔥

[zinc wharf]

Since I couldn’t find a way to reach Whispering Vaults without beating them, I took the extent of my fury out on the Stinkwork Dancers. It felt good…

[earnest drift]

how do you get architect crest before cogwork dancers

[light swan]

white key > whiteward > clawline > twelfth architect > architects crest > stinkwork dancers

[earnest drift]

https://giphy.com/gifs/adidas-hollow-knight-hornet-Bd8ZuJDjRR2AVxjZyp

i like hornet

[zinc wharf]

This

[earnest drift]

are tacks balanced

[zinc wharf]

They are basically land-locked, but shred grounded enemies. Against enemies, I’d say yes, since there’s plenty of flying enemies. For bosses, I’d say less so, considering how many bosses are grounded. I wouldn’t call them OP against bosses, but moreso brainless.

[light swan]

to answer that question, we first need to go back to the beginning.

In 2016, William Pellen and Ari Gibson were just two

[spark anchor]

A good amount of bosses are grounded

Karmelita’s a notable example

She does jump a lot but her hitbox is quite large to eat up tacks

[zinc wharf]

Yeah, that’s what I said.

[near cairn]

oh hey illusion

[spark anchor]

It’s only limited by the amount you can have at once

[near cairn]

wsp

[spark anchor]

And that certain bosses like trobbio and lost lace outright remove tacks

Who else can clear tacks

[earnest drift]

balancing every red tool to curvesickle level

1. straight pins now deal 35 dmg each
2. threefold pins now deal 28 dmg each
3. stingshard does not change
4. tacks do not change
5. longpins now deal 45 dmg each

[near cairn]

i think clover dancers can?????

[spark anchor]

It isnt that great for clover dancers though

[near cairn]

if not that's bs

[spark anchor]

They’re mid-air a lot of the time and the ghost prince just eats up attacks

Sting shard would be better

[near cairn]

isn't 28 dmg each way too much

[last marten]

I just learned that I somehow avoided killing Pilby in both Act1 and Act2 by complete accident, I didn't even know it was a written part of the story that he would die

[earnest drift]

threefold pin still does diminishing dmg
all three on one enemy would do 49

[simple shoal]

straight pins are balanced for early game because they're generally the first tools that you would find. Doing 35 damage on impact is crazy for early game bosses like Lace 1

[spark anchor]

He can die in two ways

Skull tyrant and the rhinogrund

[near cairn]

i think they meant 35 damage fully upgraded but ok

[simple shoal]

sameee 🤣

[earnest drift]

i'm talking about full upgrades

this is just going to show how overpowered curvesickle is and it has no place in the game in its current state

[near cairn]

i miss the good ol' days

where u could just threadstorm the enemies to death

[simple shoal]

it would still scale the same way though...

[zinc wharf]

What would Snare Setter do? 180 damage per blast?

[simple shoal]

i agree tbhh

[earnest drift]

throwing rings now deal 28 dmg each
pimpillo deals 70 dmg each
flintslate, cogflies, and both types of voltvessels do not change

[near cairn]

make it deal 230 for the funsies

[earnest drift]

snare setter is alright, it would only need a small buff to be on curvesickle level

[zinc wharf]

Heck yeah, the more things I can blow up off the face of the Earth, the better.

[near cairn]

dude i miss my snare setter so much

fuck you guardian

[simple shoal]

I forget snare setter exists as a tool... I rarely used it and then they took it at the start of act 3

[earnest drift]

rosary cannon now deals 12 dmg per rosary

[near cairn]

FUCK YEAH

🤤

[zinc wharf]

Gonna repost this because it’s a really good example of how fun Snare Setter is.

[earnest drift]

flea brew and conchcutter do not change
idk about delver's drill

[near cairn]

oh my goodness

[spark anchor]

Snare setter is so cool i wish you could use it in act 3

Especially for coral tower

[glacial kelp]

instakilling last phase is evil

[zinc wharf]

Agreed. It might be my favorite red tool, it’s so fun.

[last marten]

Wait can you still craft this tool in Act3? I realized this one of my missing tools

[weary sorrel]

This message is AI boo this person >:(

[earnest drift]

mt fay silkshot now deals 55 dmg per shot
forge silkshot now deals 35 dmg per shot
architect silkshot now deals 25 dmg per each of the small three shots (still has diminishing returns)

[zinc wharf]

They wronged me, they paid the price.

[spark anchor]

Sucks it’s treated like kingsoul for the sake of story

[earnest drift]

and to balance out every red tool now being curvesickle level, hornet gets a fifth needle upgrade

[zinc wharf]

No it isn’t? I wrote that with my Snare Setter-loving hands.

[earnest drift]

and all dlc enemies have even more hp

[spark anchor]

Purest Needle

[zinc wharf]

Nope. You have to give it over to the Caretaker to access Act 3, and you can’t get it back afterwards.

[earnest drift]

that's what would have to be done if we were to balance the game around curvesickle

[spark anchor]

Caretaker and his greedy ass taking my best landmine ever

[light swan]

hi

[zinc wharf]

Barbed Bracelet buff