sk-discussion

[quartz gulch]

I think so, though it's not updated on console. At least I didn't have it when I fought groal.

[verbal steeple]

another thing. wreath of purity for me is pretty mid

[tidal ruin]

This is a variation of "don't interact with it" in reference to bad game design
(Again, maggots aren't terrible, I think they're just annoying, I'm using that term as an example)

[untold dune]

wreath is a qol tool to me

[compact robin]

I usually never get it before bilewater but honestly i like it

[verbal steeple]

like i've seen people do groal with wreath of purity and i'm like: Why did u not beat groal before getting to putrified duct?

[verbal steeple]

wreath of purity shouldev been gotten IN bile water

it shouldev been gotten WAY earlier.

[plain tundra]

I like sawtooth circlet because you do more than a maxed out nail strike by double jumping near an enemy

[tidal ruin]

Or, even batter, near the end of sinner's road

[chrome granite]

Sinner's Road?

[untold dune]

wreath of purity should be in pharloom bay

[quartz gulch]

My ears feel like someone did some nail damage.

[verbal steeple]

yup

[void moat]

https://tenor.com/view/he-made-a-statement-statement-dog-gang-praised-gif-14847923944265501688

[verbal steeple]

infact replace the barbed wire location with wreath of purity

[arctic epoch]

are we... are we saying Maggot Water isn't a good game design fr?

[compact robin]

I hate this chat sometimes

[tidal ruin]

Replace every location with wreath of purity

[verbal steeple]

barbed wire should instead be gotten in like. idk. greymoor or somethin

[quartz gulch]

Maggot water is good game design, and you can't prove me wrong.

[icy crow]

I cannot bro I'm the luckiest person in the world

[rocky jolt]

bad game design this bad balancing that

[icy crow]

Anyways I'm about to fight Moss Mother in Steel Soul

I'll use Hunter for my whole run since I'll be dodging often

[quartz gulch]

Barbed wire is so abyssmally dogshit shit, I would only ever use it on a Radiant boss.

[verbal steeple]

mfs calling stuff bad game design when silksong in its entirely is bad

silksong is so bad

[tidal ruin]

Its definitely not good
In a vacuum, it isn't bad, but it's existence in bilewater is a contributing factor to bilewater being a horribly designed area

[quartz gulch]

🖕

[rocky lotus]

0/10 ragebait

[chrome granite]

What do you expect from the sequel of Sloppy knot?

[void moat]

truthnuke

[quartz gulch]

Give me arguments if you are right.

[plain tundra]

I get why maggot water is annoying, but doesn't that defeat the purpose?
It's like making Isma's Tear accessible in your first visit to greenpath, no?

[compact robin]

This game is so ass istg

[verbal steeple]

i didn't expect it to be hollow

[untold dune]

what is this deltarune brainrot ass sentence

[verbal steeple]

well the difference is. isma's tear unlocks new areas that u couldn't get to before.

[rocky lotus]

Is it really badly designed if its meant to frustrate the player and succeeds

[quick cedar]

Yeah

[tidal ruin]

Reasons why maggot water is good:

• It is a unique environmental hazard that changes gameplay experience
  Reasons it is bad:
• It forces a slow and hyper-passive playstyle, nigh removes one of the game's core mechanics, and does not go away without brute forcing your way out of it (which can very easily lead to death)

[quick cedar]

Cause I said so

[rocky lotus]

Not using this as a defense just curious

[verbal steeple]

by the time u get wreath of purity, most wouldev already beat most of bile water

[languid swallow]

Why hasn't team cherry released sea of sorrow their so lazy.

[quartz gulch]

How dare team Cherry introduce new game mechanics that are hard!!! /s Bilewater is an S tier area.

[compact robin]

That's like saying the cursed ending is bad game design

[untold dune]

its literally releasing tomorrow

[tidal ruin]

Well, at least it's good at what its trying to do

[compact robin]

wife

[quick cedar]

Theres bull shit in a lot of games clearly meant to just fuck over the player just cuz it succeeds doesnt make it good imo

[verbal steeple]

maggot water should instead be like the acid in HK

[arctic epoch]

idk, probably you weren't supposed to be in Bilewater i mean, as if the place wasn't meant to welcome any outsider

[verbal steeple]

it should kill you instantly.

[languid swallow]

Bro why are team cherry so lazyyy

They never do anything

[compact robin]

This game is so rushed too

[arctic epoch]

yeah. Exactly. Doesn't that mean it's good game design? 😭

[tidal ruin]

Cursed ending is an optional challenge you take on willingly, bilewater is required and NOBODY is willingly diving into maggots

[chrome granite]

their shells are ours, their souls are ours, our hatred is eternal.

[languid swallow]

Silkskng is just hollow knight but up and not down

[compact robin]

True ending is optional too

[languid swallow]

And hollow knight is just mario with good graphics

[verbal steeple]

speak for yourself

i love drenching myself with maggots

[tidal ruin]

No
If you intentionally make a game to be bad and succeed, is it a good game?

[void moat]

crazy how groal is like, 3rd most evil character in silksong

[quartz gulch]

So basically it is bad because:
-your playstyle doesn't fit to it (despite the fact that it definitely doesn't force that playstyle you're talking about)
-You aren't used to it

[arctic epoch]

the secret bench:

[untold dune]

game 3 will be left

[chrome granite]

What's 2nd and 1st?

[verbal steeple]

the secret bench should also be a trap

[void moat]

2nd is hornet and 1st is gms

[verbal steeple]

"AHA I FOUND A SECRET BEN-"
falls into sinners road

[compact robin]

Infact remove ALL bilewater benches

[quartz gulch]

You think?

[verbal steeple]

infact remove every single area except for bile waters

[untold dune]

even the bellway and exhaust organ ones

[verbal steeple]

EVERYTHING is bile water now.

[untold dune]

lace ur cooked

[compact robin]

Also funny enough my friend willingly dove in headfirst into maggot water and that's how he found the bench lmao

[native canyon]

hornet haters are the most annoying people in this community

[verbal steeple]

the void? its now VOID MAGGOTS

[chrome granite]

Hollow Knight: VileBile

[tidal ruin]

Its bad because

• it removes the playstyle thats literally built into hornet's moveset
  -it removes a core mechanic of the game
  -it often results in death unless you nigh perfectly adapt and get the maggots off, just to then fall back into maggots

[compact robin]

Fr like what are we even hating

[verbal steeple]

the maggots in bile water shoould be turned voided

[quartz gulch]

Good. Bilewater is an S tier area. Unless everything is putrified ducts, I'm happy with it.

[void moat]

true i am

[untold dune]

fuck it sandcarvers too

[exotic cedar]

Hornet

[verbal steeple]

if the maggots are voided u immediatly die going into them

wreath of purity also bcecomes useless

[native canyon]

gotta make EVERYTHING about how hornet sucks or smth

[compact robin]

I like the gimmick

[rocky lotus]

Whats more badly designed, Deepnest or bilewater

[untold dune]

both are actually well designed

[verbal steeple]

dude i got jumpscared 3 times by twisted bud

[rich herald]

neither

[tidal ruin]

I do too, the gimmick is cool, but it's also very restrictive and I think it would have been better if it was slightly less punishing

[compact robin]

Both are well executed but personally i hate deepnest more just because of devout

[untold dune]

bad design is when difficult

[quick cedar]

Deepnest good bilewater bile

[tidal ruin]

I didn't hate deepnest, but I despise bilewater

[manic cove]

good design is when artificial difficulty

[void moat]

deepnest and bilewater are both good

[patent heath]

[compact robin]

Now i get your point but wouldn't it kinda be like using magma bell for lava? I mean. The actual difference between lava and maggot water is practically 1 mask

[untold dune]

im sorry but skill issue

[verbal steeple]

bad game design is when i think its horrible while good is when i think its good

[manic cove]

i didnt have fun in this area but the mechanics are cool and the art is nice so we must ignore all gameplay and just mindlessly drone and glaze tc!

[void moat]

they both bring unique vibes to the table and fit in hk and sk

[tidal ruin]

Bilewater was the least fun I have ever had in any metroidvania

[lofty shell]

guys whats the best area in the entire HK franchise

[rich herald]

how is bilewater difficulty artificial

[compact robin]

Greenpath

[chrome granite]

City of Tears

[verbal steeple]

bilewater

[untold dune]

stilkins suck but the rest if authentically difficult

[arctic epoch]

No.

But Bilewater is a centre piece of Citadel's most visual crimes. Its lore, its buildup, its identity and its reward speak for not just the frustration Hornet felt but the torture its habitants have went through.

For they were not meant to be of such filth, for they were forced to be. Hornet slash through that wicked place, she push forth into the heart of hell - a place welcomes none other but hatred.

What there does she gain? What there does she see? But a more vivid proof of the so "holy" citadel's act? What else does she need to keep driving to put this dying kingdom to sleep?

Of sudden ambush, creepiness, music and its very punishing demands for so little rewards. For we to learn high risk never means high reward, for we to learn to see the world through the shells of pain, for we to push into noman lands to find the key of Pharloom's freedom?

Then yes, i'd argue, Bilewater is by far the best area simply for being the most atmospheric area.

[patent heath]

I genuinely did have fun in Bilewater in my first playthrough.

[manic cove]

Runbacks are artificial difficulty - there's many ways they can add fun difficulty but there is a grand total of 10 people who enjoyed Bilewater and they are coping because the area is very well designed in every aspect other than gameplay so they have to glaze the rest

[quick cedar]

Channel full of bad takes

[patent heath]

And Deepnest is just my favourite area in the first game.

[tidal ruin]

Not necessarily, since maggot water removes your ability to heal to the point that if you are avoiding getting hit then you will not be getting enough hits to heal yourself, which over time will result in more lost health

[untold dune]

yknow what fair point

[patent heath]

Deepnest is one of the best areas in HK but we aren't ready for this convo.

[void moat]

i like groal’s character, a leader absorbed in his power so much that he’d rather kill than actually promote good for his people is cool

[brisk zephyr]

Is it me or is Beastfly is easier than what we first thought?
No hit Reaper crest on the first fight. I think i may have had too much skill issue when i fought it on a normal playthrough

[quartz gulch]

Firstly, you can even get an item that prevents the maggots. Secondly, the "core mechanic" isn't removed, you can still use clawline and gain silk. Thirdly, you just have to be aware of your surroundings. You can see the stilkin before they attack, and the traps are predictable too. Fourthly, it's okay to admit you find the game hard. But blaming it all on the area isn't very understandable to me. The only area in Silksong I truly don't like at all are the putrified ducts. Because that's what you are describing, not bilewater. Additionally, there are many strategies to counter the problems you had.

[quick cedar]

Talm bout groals character

[arctic epoch]

quite alot of these are assumptions

[verbal steeple]

if this chat were to be turned into water. it would become maggot water

[manic cove]

yes im obviously seething but u can read past that and know my point

[rich herald]

so bilewater gameplay is bad because im bad at it basically
theres like 1 runback that is actually an issue sure

[patent heath]

It is.

[arctic epoch]

no, i do not know your point. Refer to my message above that one

[compact robin]

Fuck verdania imo

[lofty shell]

i'd say khann is better in the entire "evil leader" thing

[verbal steeple]

honestly i kinda like the bilewater runback

[quartz gulch]

I love Bilewater, so 11 people.

[hybrid flare]

He's not really an evil leader doe

[verbal steeple]

the platforming in it is fun for me

[patent heath]

Neither Groal nor Khann are necessary evil, though.

[void moat]

well he’s a tyrant, but groal is downright evil

[rich herald]

but this is like saying Blasted Steps is badly designed because last judge runback. Or sands of karak is bad because coral tower khann runback

[golden shell]

Khanns trials are genuinely so annoying, I died 20 times and I still didn't even get to him yet

[brisk zephyr]

Damn. I guess i used to suck fighting it badly

[quartz gulch]

Verdania has one weak point: Literally every enemy is some super saiyan type guy. At least every clover enemy.

[chrome granite]

bad game design is bad game design

[arctic epoch]

Lost Lace is bad because it has 20 seconds cutscene

[tidal ruin]

1. This is fire writing W job
2. Lorewise it makes sense, but if my boss is supposed to be an annoying boss in lore and it becomes a very atmospheric annoying boss in game, its still annoying
   (I do agree that bilewater atmosphere is really cool though)

[lofty shell]

Guys who is the most evil character in HK series?

[void moat]

“Their shells are ours. Their souls are ours.”

groal would rather hoard his power and harvest the souls of inmocent unrelated bugs than actually do good for his people, i see it as him being consumed by greed and wrath, intoxicated by his role

[untold dune]

all the act 3 bosses are like this and it pmo so much

[icy crow]

The Marrow has cool backgrounds but the blur fucking ruins it

[native canyon]

any difficulty that I can't brute force is artificial

[manic cove]

To be honest I found the fake chair incredibly frustrating but hating the area is part of the intention and I had a good laugh out of it and enjoyed it. IMO It's obviously TC's intention that you hate the area but you know the story and you kinda get it and whatnot and immerse yourself in how the people there are living. I LOVED bilewater so much until Groal, I personally have a hard time understanding a bosses attacks quickly so it took me a few runbacks that were unfun. Other than that the rest of the area is magnificient and I like having large runbacks, except for bosses since it's kind of something you have to learn

[patent heath]

Lost Lace is kinda bad because it is unnecessarily difficult if you have some sort of visual disability.

[hybrid flare]

And uh no real rewards

[hybrid flare]

I'd say choral chambers takes it in the atmosphere section

[verbal steeple]

the only thing about the fake chair is the fact. there should be a way of escaping from the trap if you're fast enough.

[arctic epoch]

then it succeeded its job, its the only one place meant to push you past your comfort zone. It's simply, good game design

[hybrid flare]

silksong is shit because i can't play it without a body

[inland wind]

Lost Lace is difficult eveven without visual disability because of things getting in the way

[verbal steeple]

forcing the player to drop into maggot water with no way of not getting maggot'd is kinda eh

[patent heath]

Huh?

[icy crow]

Anyways should I do a true 100% or base 100% in Steel Soul

[manic cove]

It does its job good, but is its job good

[quartz gulch]

Groal is pretty valid, Khan just is a typical asshole ruler. Karmelita is bad too though, since she didn't protect the mottled Skarr from racism. Green Princes and Nyleth are pretty chill.

[hybrid flare]

that's not an issue unless you're in the left section of the arena

[untold dune]

idc that the fake bench does this but i wish the weavenest didnt

[patent heath]

That's not the point of my message.

[hybrid flare]

Yes, what did you expect

[errant vessel]

Second place I would argue, hunter's march is an equally hard skill check for an earlier point in the game

[brisk zephyr]

I guess you can say it does its job of being annoying and disgusting TOO good lol

[verbal steeple]

weavenest? there's a weavenest door in bilewater?

[void moat]

he isnt just a typical asshole ruler 😭

[patent heath]

I am asking what you mean by that.

[arctic epoch]

Choral Chambers didn't particularly stand out and force a grand laugh out of me each time i enter a new area.

The same dead corridors, the same vast halls and its lifeless loyals just laying bare. I feel nothing but emptiness for them. Not even a spark of 'what if?'

[lofty shell]

thats like saying
the radiance sucks because its too bright for visually disable people

[icy crow]

It's where you get the ruined tool for Silkshot

[untold dune]

yeah weavenest murglin

[arctic epoch]

atmospheric isn't the same as difficulty

[manic cove]

Honestly yes my point is that having this for most of the area is valid but when its a boss that youre expected to die to a few times because you dont learn it or understand it, personally im not a fan

[quartz gulch]

Well it is a dream though. It doesn't even count as a real area, just like dreams in HK (disappearing ones).

[azure patrol]

Which feature do you like more?
Dream nail dialogues or needeloin songs?

[errant vessel]

Fair point

[verbal steeple]

dang. i should really 100% my main save

[untold dune]

dnail

[void moat]

dreamnail

[icy crow]

Hunter's March becomes very doable to do once you get Swift Step

[chrome granite]

dream nail

[lofty shell]

dream nail is better in every way
its cooler lore wise, it looks cooler, its actually really useful in combat and more

[arctic epoch]

needolin songs

[errant vessel]

Bilewater becomes very doable once you get good /hj

[patent heath]

Idk if she even knows about Mottled Skarr lol.
But uhh, what do we even know about Khann to say he is an asshole? Like, the only thing I know is that he had half of Pharloom under him during his prime.

[quartz gulch]

He kills the weak. He is neutrally evil. I like him though, and I also like the theory that Garro and Xero are karak. The karak in their entirety have some of the coolest designs.

[lofty shell]

bilewater isn't even hard

[void moat]

he’s a tyrant

[manic cove]

^its just annoying

[snow glen]

hello

[tulip spire]

Just don’t touch the water it’s that easy

[manic cove]

but thats fine if it wasnt for hte boss 😡 😡 😡 😡

[icy crow]

Bilewater isn't hard to the point of making one scream but it's annoying, specifically in the Mask Shard room

[chrome granite]

How did Xero made his way to Hallownest?

[brisk zephyr]

Needle songs
Act 3 spoiler
||Because i can summon Beastlings at almost any point in time||

[snow glen]

hk

[patent heath]

The contrast between the background and Radiance is quite a lot.
The contrast between Lost Lace and the background isn't.

[inland wind]

LL’s AI realizes hornet spontaneously combusts every time she touches her and just spawn right on you after wave attack, that’s like one complaint I have about LL

[rocky lotus]

Survive his gauntlet

[errant vessel]

I enjoyed it, but I enjoyed most of the parkour-heavy areas with lots of vertical movement

[lofty shell]

dream gate is way better than that

[tulip spire]

Lost lace is black and background is light gray lol

[visual chasm]

entering the argument late but frankly i think ppl just forget how playing hk for the first time was and what THAT difficulty was like, and so theyre shocked theyre struggling with silksong even tho theyre also just learning it for the first time
i went into the game expecting difficulty and bilewarer was exactly that, but my second run i knew the area i knew the strats and flew through all of it. the difficulty just comes with not yet knowing the environment imo

[patent heath]

Hmm.

[void moat]

his sternness comes from wanting to hone his people, he’s a tryant yes but i think calling him a typical asshole washes away his character

[quartz gulch]

Please ping me, I won't see your message otherwise. About khan being an asshole, he's just the typical ruler. Every typical ruler is an asshole.

[tulip spire]

The contrast is well beyond 4.5:1

[tidal ruin]

There are strategies, as there is to everything, a game without counters to hazards would just be a brick wall
I did find bilewater hard, but I found a lot of that difficulty to be artificial, which is very often unfair and/or unfun to experience.
LL was a really hard fight and I had a blast, the difference is that lost lace doesn't have an unnecesssrily long runback and lets you aptly use all of the techniques and abilities you've spent the game getting. Bilewater is hard because dying sets you back so far and making a mistake can very easily lead to you losing access to your biggest tools until you risk going back to the start again to bring them back. Than, you make the mistake again.
Mistakes shouldn't be this punishing, bilewater isn't hard because it pushes insane challenges onto the player, it's hard because it sends you back 15-20 minutes every time you fail

[icy crow]

Should I skip act one Moorwing in my Steel Soul run?

[arctic epoch]

she never emerges right underneath you

[brisk zephyr]

But does it come with cute little things?

[worldly valve]

I'M BACK IN THE FUCKING GAUNTLET AGAIN

[chrome granite]

Dream Nail > Needolin
Beastling Call > Dreamgate

[icy crow]

She can, it's just very rare

[quartz gulch]

I didn't mean it like that. I rather meant that he is neutrally evil.

[white sequoia]

DreamGate was added to HK WAY after release. That gives the other more points on my chart

[inland wind]

Not directly underneith but after doing the wave attack on third phase she usually spawns right where you would land if you held left

[tulip spire]

She only does it if you sprint around when she’s not on screen

[errant vessel]

The hidden bench is a five minute runback at the very most

[arctic epoch]

pretty sure the bot never attempts to spawn right underneath you (as per any other bot)

[verbal steeple]

the only thing that makes act 3 not mid for me is the baby bellbeasts

[tulip spire]

Solution: don’t move when she’s not attacking you

[dawn needle]

TROBIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[inland wind]

Otherwise I’d rank LL as one of the most fun HK series bosses

[icy crow]

What if I'm constantly chasing her down

[inland wind]

I’d even rank her above pure vessel

[manic cove]

Which is fine cuz the environment for most of it is basically the same. So every death is not a problem because you're put back in the same environment, it really just means "get good". But the boss is the big change -> you have to learn attacks (and tbh I did not understand how to dodge them but its a skill issue) so not knowing the environment is valid difficulty but GROAL ISNT 😡

[tidal ruin]

If you had fun in bilewater then I'm glad, but in my personal opinion and experience it is the worst area in metroidvania history
(Or, all of the ones I've played, there's probably still worse out there)

[quartz gulch]

You have to get the hidden bench, and all is good. Without it Bilewater would be like you described.

[tulip spire]

She always comes to you so idk why you’d be doing that

[icy crow]

Because it's fun

[inland wind]

One thing I can’t decide

(this is quality of boss and not difficulty)

Lost Lace vs NKG, better boss?

[azure patrol]

How to delete Groal?

[lofty shell]

maybe
but umm
dream gate can be set up anywhere
it basically eliminates runbacks as you can just set it up before the boss you wanna beat
it also can work like beastling call if you place it in stag station
it has way more uses than beastling call

[errant vessel]

I love lost lace but NKG easy

[hybrid flare]

Choral chambers impressed me the most ngl, everything being in such seemingly pristine condition, as if it was in some kind of stasis, while it eventually went silent

[lofty shell]

lost lace
NKG is repititive
he doesn't get any new attacks
lost lace has 3 phases with new attacks each phase

[tulip spire]

I just don’t think Groal is that hard ig like his gauntlet is imo actually harder than the boss itself

[inland wind]

Yeah but at the same time he’s a really good boss too

[icy crow]

Runback from the hidden bench definitely does not take five minutes unless you're really careful avoiding everything in the way

[quartz gulch]

And it works anywhere without using up resources.

[tidal ruin]

Which is helpful if you
A. Like 90% of players, google where it is (which shouldn't be needed)
B. Jump into a random puddle of maggots and hope for the best
And then you still have to deal with a bunch of annoying game mechanics for 5 minutes + an arena

[errant vessel]

Yeah I said at the most

[brisk zephyr]

Dont you kinda cut Dreamgate's usefulness by only setting it up in stag stations and not in whatever other place you want to return to?

[azure patrol]

NKG is a fun boss. Lost Lace however is not as fun as Lace in act 2.

[icy crow]

What only makes the runback bad are the muckmaggots lol, hate those creatures

[tulip spire]

Hidden bench runback is less than a minute unless you suck at platforming, and you really shouldn’t suck at platforming by the end of act 2

[quartz gulch]

NKG isn't easy. Why do all HK players think bosses are easy, when they just got good at beating them???

[icy crow]

Anyways lemme continue the Marrow in my Steel Soul file

[errant vessel]

I meant I prefer NKG easily lol

[languid swallow]

.

[quartz gulch]

Even with architects crest it's incredibly easy, and you even get a free silk refill before the fight.

[azure patrol]

They died like thousands of times in the basement for hours before they say ts.

[wraith dagger]

Man finally beat ts after multiple hours of pure efforts 😭😭😭😭😭

[verbal steeple]

why does shaman's bind force u to jump and then slam down into the ground when you're already on the ground

[lofty shell]

oh yeah i forgot one more thing
you cannot use beastling call everywhere
unlike dreamgate
which makes using beastling call much more annoying

[dawn needle]

Im having trouble with a mushroom clue
"Over camp, collapsed by thread plight"
Where is this

[willow moth]

aña

[arctic epoch]

actually you don't need to jump in any puddle.
The walls are scalable with very obvious trap set in there which no other seemingly out of nowhere hole has and you can clawline once you reach the bottom because you're very incentivized to use ascendant's grip in Bilewater

[chrome granite]

search up curse of knowledge

[tidal ruin]

Yes, and it was, because I didn't find the hidden bench
The hidden bench is something most people do not find unless they know about it prior or just google it because they're tired of the non-hidden bench, I would've been so much happier if it was a non-hidden bench

[tulip spire]

Yeah it’s not even like a top 5 hard platforming segment lol

[quartz gulch]

Okay, makes sense. It still frustrates me though, to see people think that everything they are good at is easy, and everything they aren't is hard.

[hybrid flare]

Nkg is hella learnable doe

[quartz gulch]

No thank you.

[errant vessel]

Also I did not need a guide to find the hidden bench. What I did was look at the size of the map, the length of the runback, and say "there is no way that is intended gameplay. there's no way." and then I started poking around in corners until I found the area that led to the hidden bench

[willow moth]

yuo are of gringo landia?

[hybrid flare]

Nkg can't really surprise you in any way once you've seen his attacks at least once

[brisk zephyr]

Brother, i know for a fact that those who claim like that forget which bosses are considered to be the hardest in HK: NKG, PV, AbsRad, GPZ and rarely: Sly, Markoth (p5), Watcher Knights, Failed Champion

[tulip spire]

NKG is not easy lol. He becomes easy once you learn him because he’s incredibly fair for the most part

[chrome granite]

Basically when you know so much you can forgot how does it feel to not know it.

[verbal steeple]

bilewaters

[arctic epoch]

PEAK FICTION 🙌

[tidal ruin]

Like most people say, NKG is a dance, it's hard to learn to dance but once you've learned it then its second nature

[wraith dagger]

It has been such a crazy journey doing this
Probably the hardest thing on all of silksong not even cradle platforming matches this

[tulip spire]

Same deal with Lost Lace

[quartz gulch]

1. Path of pain
2. Getting to the surface above the cradle (almost the first)
3. White Palace
4. Abyss escape
5. Mount fay

5. Sands of karak

[chrome granite]

Harder than Lost Lace

[lofty shell]

why is sands of karak here lmao

[verbal steeple]

which gun is the best gun again?

[wraith dagger]

Haven't fought her yet
She's the last boss left
I was grinding on this flea games for 3 days

[chrome granite]

Why surface climb above white palace?

[hybrid flare]

seth juggle is the 2nd hardest thing from both games

[tidal ruin]

I feel like cogwork core is a better #5

[tulip spire]

Honestly the hardest platforming segment other than PoP and WP was the abyss escape sequence. There’s one or two jumps in it that just suck

[quartz gulch]

The entire area is just nonstop platforming. Have you got a better idea?

[hybrid flare]

aside from radhog

[native fable]

Eh, I dunno.
I thought the Border Caves was hard, but I think I had a lot more trouble with White Palace because it is so much longer and there are a lot more variables.

[brisk zephyr]

There isnt much restriction on Beastling call besides few platforms. You can call them in quite a lot of areas.
Also Beastling Call doesnt tax you dream essence or rosaries. Because they pay in cuteness
(Granted you have lots of essence unless you spam this greamgate for days, but at this point i have to ask: how often do you need it for and WHAT makes you use it so much?)

[quartz gulch]

White palace has checkpoints at least, the surface climb is just one continuous climb, one mistake being fatal.

[visual chasm]

i mean i think groal just has the same argument as the environment of not knowing the boss so you struggle
my first run groal destroyed me for like a week straight, my second run i got his ass first try. i think its just the natural learning curve
PLUS it makes sense for groal to be stupid hard since hes the gateway to complete the silk snare quest, which is the entry to act 3. i see him as a test to check ur abilities for the 3rd act

[quartz gulch]

true, imma edit

[azure patrol]

Pharloom is literally worse than the holocaust

[wraith dagger]

Nah i find juggle the easies cause it gives you 3 chances while dodge one shows no mercy

[void moat]

why not

[ruby dune]

Mf what

[lofty shell]

dream gate only takes one essence
thats literally nothing

[brisk zephyr]

Woah there chill

[quick cedar]

The Holographic map

[tidal ruin]

Surface climb has checkpoints, also has ways fo refuel your silk (though less convenient than an infinite soul statue, but those are only in path of pain)

[civic junco]

what time should i be entering bellhart and act 2 for sub 5 hrs

[verbal steeple]

which silk gun is the best gun

[manic cove]

yeah but the entire runback is environment, so you have to deal w 1 env then switch to another but you spend 10 years on the first

[civic junco]

is greymoor in 40 mins good pace

[verbal steeple]

is it the architect repaired one or the deep docks one or the weaver one

[void moat]

mt. Fay

[manic cove]

so at one point its not really a skill check just a mild annoyance

[quartz gulch]

Wait, it takes something? Not that it matters, since I have like 4000 and above, but why?

[wraith dagger]

Flea dodge gets so insane after 60 points that it becomes impossible to dodge

[verbal steeple]

ight

[hybrid flare]

Dodge is much more manageable imo

[verbal steeple]

i think i have like 90 dodges in it or somethin

[manic cove]

imagine if i made you do 10 table additions 100x before doing groal its the same bs

[visual chasm]

i dont believe in the runback debate tbh i think its stupid to be mad abt having to walk to the boss

[brisk zephyr]

Yeah, i said so. But again, how often did you use it?
I kinda didnt do it much besides few attempts at Delicate Flower

[hybrid flare]

i did 120 easily

you can pogo off of the fleas in dodge btw

[quartz gulch]

The last section specifically is just pure pain and suffering.

[wraith dagger]

Mine is 114

[patent heath]

I used Shaman Crest for flea juggle. Made it super easy lol.

[quartz gulch]

Shut up.

[azure patrol]

Guys Is there some lore for fireflies? I kinda feel bad for them. Trapped just to be used as a light source when there are literal torches

[languid swallow]

EVERYONE

[tidal ruin]

I didn't like surface climb very much either tbf
I didn't hate it, but it was just very basic with little in the way of unique platforming

[verbal steeple]

You said 115 before editing your message. how could you lie.....

[languid swallow]

What boss do you feel worst fighting?

[verbal steeple]

evil

[tidal ruin]

Unravelled

[verbal steeple]

clockwork dancers

[wraith dagger]

I forgot it was 115 or 114 sorry

[patent heath]

Unraveled.

[lofty shell]

i used it to place it at stag station
i used it to eliminate boss runbacks
it was annoying for me to run back to NKG everytime I died so I just put a dream gate near where grimm was sleeping
I used it for my delicate flower attempts to get back to grey mourner everytime I died
you have more flexibility with dream gate

[rocky lotus]

Lost garmond

[verbal steeple]

it makes me sad to fight the clockwork dancers

[arctic epoch]

Act 1 Mount Fay is technically harder than PoP

[errant vessel]

Lost garmond

[languid swallow]

Seth

[hybrid flare]

zango

[lofty shell]

groal

[chrome granite]

zango

[manic cove]

problem with the fact there are multiple crests in the game tc cant do much i hope they make smth where youre locked to 1 crest

[verbal steeple]

i didn't feel bad fighting zango.

[native fable]

The annoying thing about the silk recharge in Border Caves though is that the worms track you and spawn where you are. So you have to constantly shuffle to avoid them.
Border Caves deserves to be disqualified anyway because of the Rune Rage exploit

[tidal ruin]

Pre-false knight path of pain is pretty hard too

[azure patrol]

Traitor King 😭

[verbal steeple]

he's already dead. the lifeblood is just controlling his corpse

[brisk zephyr]

Did... did you use dreamgate to go to NKG ...
When his tent is literally in the hub area with the bench next to it?

[languid swallow]

Sk only

[inland wind]

Time to start a civil war again

[errant vessel]

If we're including HK fighting the hollow knight the first time made me cry

[hybrid flare]

that is one hell of a weird tierlist

[azure patrol]

Well clockwork dancers then

[verbal steeple]

killed pilby should be above S tier because that's the best thing u could do

[quartz gulch]

They are silkflies. And they are pilgrims that guide other pilgrims into the endless cycle. They are also used in machinery, and they have their own will too.
There are also Lumaflies, Kingflies, and the Verdania flies (small and white, same shape as the big green ones). I think that's all of them.

[chrome granite]

Forebtorhers Signis and Gron getting the love it deserves.

[lofty shell]

it was annoying to walk to his tent, enter it, then go to him everytime so I just used dream gate

[wraith dagger]

1. seth
2. groal
3. last judge

[languid swallow]

Aside from fourth chorus that's about what I'd go with

[tidal ruin]

I loved seth

[tulip spire]

I used it for delicate flower, the traitor lord runback (ugh) and then I typically kept it near godseeker

[chrome granite]

But Seth should've been in S too.

[arctic epoch]

Groal could have been higher, but 👍

[lofty shell]

based as fuck

[brisk zephyr]

Brother its not THAT long? How lazy can it be?

[native canyon]

tier list timeee2e

[austere lotus]

Is lace 2 hitting like a truck common

[inland wind]

I may be #1.5 Reaper Galzer but I am true Forebrothers Glazer

[visual chasm]

literally this community is cooked HAHAHA

[wraith dagger]

Fighting seth was like fighting goku on ultra instinct

[languid swallow]

Don't you know the story behind him

[visual chasm]

the impatience is insane

[arctic epoch]

FUCKING HORRENDOUS
-# i havent take a look

[lofty shell]

almost based

[quartz gulch]

Bro is to lazy for literally two crystal dashes.

[tidal ruin]

Well... yeah, thats half the reason I love him

[languid swallow]

Ah

[verbal steeple]

where do u repair the broken tool in mt.fay btw

[inland wind]

Seth is one of those fights that I didn't like that much personally

[quartz gulch]

Where the light may guide you.

[languid swallow]

Interesting. It just makes me feel bad fighting him.

[quartz gulch]

There, at that point.

[tulip spire]

Pinstress in A and palestag in anything other than bottom tier

That’s a spicy meatball

[austere lotus]

Was the OC of a little kid with cancer, right?

[verbal steeple]

do u think ultra instinct goku could contain the radiance.

[visual chasm]

that bench at the top

[tidal ruin]

OH yeah, guilt wise I felt a little bad too, but gameplay wise its an awesome fight

[hybrid flare]

WHO invited nyleth and seth over there

[brisk zephyr]

Forget crystal dashes. What it takes like? 30 seconds at most?

[errant vessel]

Yeah, he didnt live to see the release of the game

[rotund wind]

Does someone know how to climb mount fay (with silk soar) wihout taking damage?

[errant vessel]

Seth is his tribute

[native canyon]

me

[languid swallow]

Correct

[chrome granite]

NKG is overrated.

[languid swallow]

The child is dead now

[inland wind]

SISTERS OF BATTLE GLAZE

[tidal ruin]

I felt horrible fighting cogwork dancers and clover dancers, especially so after waking up from the verdania dream

[wraith dagger]

I personally like the fight but the hitboxes was way less
He also looked like some simple fodder enemy

[inland wind]

WE LOVE SISTERS OF BATTLE

[verbal steeple]

sisters of battle is literally the best fight in the entire HK franchise

[errant vessel]

Killing the green prince and karmelita didn't feel great

[verbal steeple]

i don't care what anyone else thinks

[low pond]

Forebrother Gron is chill but Signis is a wannabe loser, he is built like a toothpick and looks like HE should be the normal enemy rather than the normal Deep Docks enemy. He wields a stupid flaming stick to compensate for how weak he is and he does not deserve that much health

[languid swallow]

I don't rely get he mantis lords/sos glaze

[rocky lotus]

It sucks that he doesnt have a phase2 but the music and visuals are great imo

[tidal ruin]

I think the kid did a pretty damn good job designing seth's appearance personally

[wraith dagger]

Where is radiance on the powerscale

[quartz gulch]

You unbind him from the higher being and allow him to have fun. Quirrel forgot everything too, and he had a blast living his life. He experienced all the wonders, not having to see all the pain behind him. Seth is the same, only he has even more aura. In all of silksong, he's definitely the most imposing when you first meet him.

[brisk zephyr]

Sisters of Battle is a peak fight when 3 of them are fighting you at once.
Then the fight takes a nosedive when you defeat 1. The speed difference is insane

[verbal steeple]

not just powerscale wise. but the fact the entire point of ultra instinct is to not think

could u contain the radiance if u just. stopped thinking

[tulip spire]

Markoth too high 0/10

[inland wind]

Them combined is so well done though fr

[plain tundra]

Maybe even hotter take than Groal isn't bad: I like how Bilewater is designed
Maggot water adds tension to platforming without the immediate danger of something like lava. If you do fall in, Bilewater has plenty of easy and infinitely respawning enemies to help you get silk back.
Even then, a lot of Bilewater is vertical, which keeps you from the water relatively often. And the big guys that act as obstacles in the vertical section are easy to pogo and give lots of soul for it.
Really, I just saw the place as a test of silk management

[languid swallow]

True. I never rely thought of it like that

[hybrid flare]

WHAT IS NKG DOIN THERE RAAAH

[visual chasm]

honestly the seth fight is my least favourite in the game. great character but the acc fight is so boring and drawn out imo
maybe i just don't have a good strat for fighting him tho

[inland wind]

My Hot Take is that Unravelled was not particularly amazing boss but it still was a pretty fun boss

[verbal steeple]

is this the best place to repair the tool

[foggy fossil]

palestag not in the lowest tier possible 💔💔

[languid swallow]

ALSO I NEVER LINKED UP THE SIMILARITIES WITH QUIRREL AND SETH DAMMIT

[hybrid flare]

Seth is barely a character

[inland wind]

Unravelled Slander must stop, my mediocre king needs his mediocre throne still

[wraith dagger]

Yeah but idk about radiance powers tho
I dont look at the lore that much

[tidal ruin]

My hot take is that raging conchfly was an S tier fight

[native fable]

The only real bad design part about Bilewater is that they put the item that protects against maggots in an area you'll normally find after it, unless you are following a guide.

[hybrid flare]

i feel like the fight is alright but it's kind of not very interesting+

[quartz gulch]

It's the most boring, I'd prefer Architect or Forge Daughter instead.

[low pond]

I like Troupe Master’s music better, but I love when NKG is done with his first stagger and does the pufferfish move because usually it perfectly lines up with the music’s

“Duuuuuuuuuuuuh Duuh Duuh Duuuuuuuuh Duuh Duuh Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuh Duuuuuuuuuuuuh”

[inland wind]

Warm at best

[hybrid flare]

This is a good take what

[tulip spire]

I hated it my first run but subsequent runs it was pretty good

[inland wind]

Ok now thats hot

[plain tundra]

That can't be a hot take

[native fable]

If you follow the normal route by the time you get that item you won't need it anymore.

[lofty shell]

i will probably put him below karmelita and first sinner
yeah

[rocky lotus]

I thought most ppl liked raging conchfly

[tidal ruin]

I edited it to be hot and still be true

[quartz gulch]

That's true.

[verbal steeple]

why does silkshot require shards to repair. I AM USING MY OWN SILK ATLEAST MAKE IT NOT COST TO REPAIR

[inland wind]

I'll give it mid A

[patent heath]

Will I be eviscerated for saying that I think Moss Mother (both fights) is a very good fight?

[tulip spire]

No, this is correct

[rocky lotus]

The ending of nkgs music makes it better than tmgs music imo

[brisk zephyr]

I guess the gun bricks

[wraith dagger]

Groal was insanely hard because it made me stop healing

[tidal ruin]

I mean, as the first boss in the game it did a pretty good job

[low pond]

I like Lace 2 more than Lost Lace because when you fight Lost Lace you’re like “AGAIN?!”

[plain tundra]

Did you use the ever-reliable multibinder?

[foggy fossil]

it is
great first boss

[hybrid flare]

moss mothers is alright

[visual chasm]

idk i like his vibes, the whole losing his memory and just wandering around hanging out is fun

[patent heath]

Hmm.

[low pond]

She’s redeemed by her final phase of Lost Lace tho cause the music goes hard

[hybrid flare]

Its good-alright

[inland wind]

Groal is not really a hard or a bad boss, but it's just the runbacks

Other bosses you could die 15 times to and not get fatigued, 3+ tries at groal just tires you out

[tulip spire]

Just hop in his maw or camp corners for Groal

[hybrid flare]

the fight is varied enough and it makes sense narratively

[tidal ruin]

Lost lace didn't really feel much like a true final boss to me either, but she was still pretty difficult and very fun to fight at least

[hybrid flare]

Though the visual design could get some tweaks

[foggy fossil]

but unfortunately
I've seen alot of people think
not hard = not good

[low pond]

Wait for Absolute Grand Mother Silk

[native fable]

Also LL has terrible visual design. She's a black sprite on a black floor against a dark background and spams black AoE attacks. It is really easy to lose track of her.

[chrome granite]

Nah, we need Lace 4

[native fable]

Same reason why I don't like the Trobbios

[plain tundra]

Is it just me or was the Skarrguard and Spear Skarr arena harder than a lot of proper bosses

[quartz gulch]

Here is a hot take: All SS bosses are S-A tier, except for Palestag, Broodmother, Shakra and Garmond and Zaza.
All HK bosses are S-B tier, except for Sly, Marmu, Soul Warrior, and Grey Prince Zote (to much health, otherwise an S tier boss).

[tulip spire]

The background is light gray

[native fable]

At least LL doesn't flash bang you

[hybrid flare]

ALL?... even lugoli

[brisk zephyr]

The only contenders i had when diving are:
Lace, GMS, a fusion of both

Because realistically, what could we possibly fight there?
Knight/Shade Lord? I know for a fact it wont happen cus he prefers to be eepy in the void after defeating Radiance

[native fable]

Dark enough

[tidal ruin]

Throw first sinner at them for the first boss, lets see how they like their difficulty now

[tulip spire]

I don’t know why people say she’s black on black because she is not lol

[austere lotus]

It's a fight with a great feeling of tempo basically. It's like the regular Grimm fight, it's more of a dance and slipping through attacks than it is just rushing at an enemy

[quartz gulch]

ALL

[wraith dagger]

I mean i used injector and multibinder but i used to hide in the bile water to avoid his attacks but it used to break my wraith of purity and thus i have to just play no hit

[hybrid flare]

also sly and gpz are fucking bangers WHAT are we talking about

[low pond]

I think Trobbio is fine, but TORMENTED TROBBIO?!

Bro Istg it’s a purple screen the entire fight like what is happening and- oh i’m dead great

[foggy fossil]

sly and gpz are great

[hybrid flare]

i'd argue sly's the best hk boss

He's my personal favourite

[rocky lotus]

Gpz is ass but sly is cool tho

[plain tundra]

Huh. What tools?

[tidal ruin]

Cold take because everyone agrees: Lugoli isn't actually a boss, his name is Ass Jim

[austere lotus]

Great Prince zote an ok fight

[lofty shell]

his second phase is kinda mid tho but yeah he is really cool

[civic junco]

whats the taunt button?

[plain tundra]

A taunt
that is all

[austere lotus]

Her name is Ass Jen

[foggy fossil]

also
worst hk boss is Obblobles imo

[wraith dagger]

Flintslate or sometimes those bees

[tulip spire]

TTrobbio’s main issue is just that if you get unlucky with the rng he can camp under the floor for fucking eons

[quartz gulch]

Sly: Second phase sucks in my opinion, the first phase is A tier
GPZ: S tier boss, he just has too much health, especially with nail binding.

[hybrid flare]

I'd say it's really fun since you have to time your Sdash

[brisk zephyr]

I like Nosk
Because im that one rare player who doesnt hide in the corner, i actively chased Nosk around being "IM NOT LOCKED IN HERE WITH YOU! YOU ARE LOCKED WITH ME!"

[inland wind]

We will NOT have SLY slander today

[austere lotus]

I fully believed that thing was the big fat bee enemies in the hive when I got to the pantheons

[low pond]

I do like the cutscene where the entirety of Act 3 we’ve been hearing GMS’ scream, basically telling us we’re fighting her again but when we get down there she’s all weak and tied up and Lost Lace comes out. Very good reveal lots of goosebumps you’ve just gotta play it to realize how peak it is

[quartz gulch]

I'm slandering ONLY his second phase.

[hybrid flare]

2nd phase is pretty good, it doesn't have much to it however it has its quirk

[tulip spire]

Which makes it hard to heal off damage and forces you to survive abnormally long periods

[inland wind]

All three Nailmaster fights in HK was absolute Cinema

[lofty shell]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-cry-about-it-sly-great-nailsage-sly-pantheon-3-gif-18417509565301230898

[hybrid flare]

also black threading acts as a foreshadowing kind of

[plain tundra]

Ah, well I found that ranged tools are the way to go for that fight

[inland wind]

Still think Sheo is probably my fave out of nailmasters

[hybrid flare]

TC cooked with the nailmasters

[quartz gulch]

It goes on too long for me to find it enjoyable.

[tulip spire]

I’m not super big on the first two nailmasters I feel like it’s a little too easy to get boxed in with them

[hybrid flare]

you can brute force through it with DDark

[low pond]

Sly reminds me of Yoda from Star Wars

He trained some of the greatest warriors and interacts with the protagonist, and even though he’s short he was very agile in his prime and has a funny voice

[inland wind]

Hopefully Seamstress is little better than Pintress or I can guess what if reason Pintress feels so hollow is because they were meant to be dual boss

[lofty shell]

oro and mato are really fun
sheo is kind of a let down
but still cool

[wraith dagger]

Like the volt one? Or shakra's rings

[brisk zephyr]

Im aware. I just dont understand what players would expect otherwise when diving into the lake of void that wouldn't be absurd.
Like tell me that fandom would have taken Hornet beating Lord of Shades as a calm canon fact lmao. This server would have been on fire

[inland wind]

I MUST see Seamstress x Pintress Fight

[hybrid flare]

SHEO?? A LETDOWN??'

[foggy fossil]

they kinda look similar yea

[quartz gulch]

EVERY FUCKING TIME THAT LITTLE SHIT GETS ME BEFOREHAND. I hate Sly second phase, and I always will.

[hybrid flare]

I like pinstress honestly

[tulip spire]

I never want to see pinstress again lol

[plain tundra]

I used Straight Pin and Conchcutter

[inland wind]

Not a bad boss but there is something missing abt it

[quartz gulch]

Obviously since she's A tier

[tulip spire]

Like fun maybe

[quartz gulch]

Ten million projectiles

[inland wind]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[low pond]

Yeah I think Lost Lace is a good fight narratively but by the point we fight her we’ve already fought our fair share of enemies with very similar attacks so it’s basically a bunch of the same stuff we’ve seen before with a few new twists

[hybrid flare]

She feels like a first phase icl

[hybrid flare]

That's what makes a good final boss

Hey, you know sword saint isshin?

[brisk zephyr]

I dont like bruteforcing any boss because it kinda saps the fun out of it
"Cool, you ddarked everyone with barely any skill or thought or fun. Game is trash i guess"

[inland wind]

What's the boss that dies on around like half a health once you mod it to see their health

[quartz gulch]

She's like Oro. He needs Mato for a good bossfight.

[lofty shell]

man i have yet to play sekiro
which i would after I am free from elden ring

[hybrid flare]

widow

[wraith dagger]

Idk about straight pins but conchcutter needs good aim there

[misty drum]

I'm bored so have a pic of me beating every boss in my first playthrough in order

[hybrid flare]

elden ring is peak aswell

[inland wind]

Window needs fourth phase

[misty drum]

I start and then you name what is the next boss

[chrome granite]

Who would be the Sly?

[low pond]

Because in the pantheons when we beat her, her sister(seamstress) is gonna show up and they’ll lockeyes, shout “QUESOOOOOO!” and it’ll be revealed that we’re fighting both of them

[tulip spire]

Pinstress is like waiting 10-15 seconds at a time so the two of you can even damage each other. If you approach she can really mess you up but if you wait like 90% of her attacks miss you easily

[plain tundra]

Does it though? The guy is big and slow

[quartz gulch]

Shakra, even if she's worse than Sly.

[brisk zephyr]

You are right. She needs to randomly ambush you throughout your playthrough

[misty drum]

Guys name the next boss

[subtle rain]

Obviously unraveled

[tulip spire]

So you just spend a bunch of time mostly standing around so you can hit her a couple of times. And she has way too much hp for a boss with this gimmick lol

[quartz gulch]

Widow needs infinite phases, until you figure out that you have to break the arena door and leave.

[royal mason]

What the hell?

[inland wind]

It should be random encounter you are forced to do evey 30 mins

[chrome granite]

But Shakra isn't a part of whatever order pinstress and seamstress were in.

[wraith dagger]

Now that you say about the big part
I think it would have worked on him

[quartz gulch]

Where's that?

[low pond]

clanker

[patent heath]

Balling.

[misty drum]

name the next boss

[subtle rain]

MEAT GRINDER

[low pond]

lace

[royal mason]

Cogwork Core

[inland wind]

This sequence but every single rolly pollies comes to life

[lofty shell]

guys what do you think about forebrothers?

[stoic knot]

mine was lace

[misty drum]

silk soar in cog core

[royal mason]

Father Of The Flame

[misty drum]

next one

[subtle rain]

Fourth chorus

[low pond]

Skarrsinger Karmelita

[stoic knot]

i didn’t get that far sorry

[tulip spire]

called forebrothers
only two of them
TC hack frauds

[royal mason]

Groal The Fat

[quartz gulch]

Oh, that's what you mean. For one there is the Stilkin Pintress, and they didn't have a master. I explained earlier how I would improve a Sentinel Godhome fight, maybe look at that message.

[misty drum]

next one

[low pond]

Moorwing

[subtle rain]

I don't remember the next one tbh

[lofty shell]

beastfly 1

[timber beacon]

would you rather live in hallownest or pharloom

[lofty shell]

pharloom

[chrome granite]

Prime Hallownest

[misty drum]

next one

[subtle rain]

Sister splinter next

[low pond]

Sister Splinter or maybe Widow one of those two

[quartz gulch]

Hallownest, Pale King is better than most real life rulers.

[rocky lotus]

Why

[void moat]

hallownest

[quartz gulch]

S tier

[native fable]

Too bad he and Hallownest are dead.

[lofty shell]

its at least like somewhat alive
hallownest is basically dead

[low pond]

widow

[subtle rain]

Then widow after splinter

[misty drum]

from now on it should be complicated

[native canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-widow-outta-my-way-gif-6410021784820990458

[inland wind]

S tier Tin Can hat

[icy crow]

Time to fight Bell Beast in Steel Soul

[misty drum]

next one

[low pond]

I could never figure out how to avoid this attack on my first playthrough my dash and drift just barely got hit

[low pond]

Beastfly

[misty drum]

hollup I messed up

[native canyon]

okay this is bullshit by this logic you should've done beastfly after fourth chorus

[misty drum]

beastfly was after moorwing

yeah yall were right

good after tyrant

[dawn needle]

How do I get the kill entries for the Craws in act 3? (Not the court ones)

[void moat]

oh how i wish #sk-lore was active

[low pond]

“Yo boss I created Greymoor’s security guard what should we name it”

“I don’t know, but do you think you could add more wing?”

“Say that again”

[misty drum]

idk they're still out there I think

[misty drum]

whatever

[plain tundra]

Savage Beastfly is generally considered one of the worst designed bosses right?

[misty drum]

screened it twice cuz I deadahh thought the first phase was all

[chrome granite]

In the first screenshot it looks like the thread slapped Widow.

[valid sable]

naw

[inland wind]

There are worse, and Beastfly 2 was pretty fun

[misty drum]

pretty sure there's a random ahh silk coming out of them by default when u beat them

[native canyon]

it's designed wonderfully

[misty drum]

whatever next one

[low pond]

First one honestly isn’t too bad but the second one is the spawn of the devil

[inland wind]

It just has bad reputation because it's usually first fight people have real trouble with

[misty drum]

yall got like 4+ choices so lock in

[subtle rain]

I got thrown off so bad by the random ahh skull tyrant im ngl

[azure patrol]

Hallownest but depends on what location.

[native canyon]

if beastfly didn't kill its adds it would be better

[low pond]

last judge

[timber beacon]

the surface town looks comfortable to live on

[coarse leaf]

Bait used to be believable

[native canyon]

WHY ARE YOU BOOING ME I'M RIGHT

[subtle rain]

Conchflies

[inland wind]

Genuinely screamed pilby after watching him/her (idk) being thundercunted across the bone bottom

[native canyon]

IT MAKES THE ADDS INCIDENTAL

[low pond]

frick u

[coarse leaf]

That’s the only good thing about the fight

[plain tundra]

Waiter Waiter more summons that have invulnerability periods please

[misty drum]

next one

[coarse leaf]

Otherwise it’d be worse

[strong arch]

Hell yeah I did it

[low pond]

Last judge or conch bros

[native canyon]

sorry I have GOOD TASTE

[plain tundra]

More summons that do 2 masks damage

[subtle rain]

What is this order im tweaking

[misty drum]

ding ding ding ding

[strong arch]

Btw speed completion was on accident 😭

[quick cedar]

You see the boss is good when you have max gear

[misty drum]

good now next one

[chrome granite]

cogwork dancers

[subtle rain]

Cog dancers

[inland wind]

The Gay Mantis robots

[strong arch]

Last judge ain't even that bad the runback is just the second worst in game

[inland wind]

HUH

[subtle rain]

I fucking hate tyrant vro

[misty drum]

next

[inland wind]

PILBY

[subtle rain]

Piece of shit fucking up the order

[inland wind]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-pain-scream-screaming-gif-11380082828166253172

[subtle rain]

And killing pilby

[misty drum]

hint: this one is lowkey peak

[inland wind]

GAY MANTIS ROBOTS

[chrome granite]

broodmother

[plain tundra]

My view of beastfly is probably a bit worse because for my first few attempts at it I pogoed off a Skarrwing to get there instead of having mobility tools

[inland wind]

FUCK

[misty drum]

now

next

[subtle rain]

Most bizarre order I've ever seen 😭

[inland wind]

Gay Mantis Robots 3.0

[subtle rain]

Ts is fire

[void moat]

phantom slashed dead in the bronx

[inland wind]

TRUTHNUKE

[misty drum]

next

[inland wind]

Theater Kid in Red

[subtle rain]

Trobbio?

[plain fulcrum]

good combo?

[inland wind]

WOO

[misty drum]

ding ding ding ding

you're on fire

[balmy dune]

Do yall think the dlc updates are about hornets journey back to hollownest rather then an expansion of pharloom

[misty drum]

next

[native canyon]

yeah there's a small problem with these upcoming fights

[inland wind]

Does gauntlets count

[void moat]

father of the flame

[coarse leaf]

Wanting savage beastfly to be harder is not good taste…😭 😭

[native canyon]

unravelled raging conchfly

[misty drum]

HOW ARE YOU SO GOOD

[void moat]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-gif-14861945541396893506

[native canyon]

THIS IS JUST WRONG

[misty drum]

next

[native canyon]

THIS REQUIRES FAYDOWN CLOAK

[misty drum]

whyyy

[native canyon]

UNRAVELLED AND CONCHFLY ONLY REQUIRE CLAWLINE

[inland wind]

Raging Conchfly

[native canyon]

SO YOU CAN DO THOSE EARLIER

[azure patrol]

We need a mantis lord hornet skin mod

[misty drum]

which requires clawline which requires Trobbio, so yeah it's after Trobbio

[misty drum]

those are later than they should...

[native canyon]

read what I said

[coarse leaf]

I mean technically there’s a skip to get up there without double jump

[chrome granite]

Clawline doesn't require trobbio

[subtle rain]

Clawline requires trobbio-?

[native canyon]

no there isn't, there's a wall

[plain tundra]

No
No it doesn't

[misty drum]

doesn't it?

[verbal steeple]

u can get clawline from white ward

[chrome granite]

You can get clawline through whiteward

[plain tundra]

I think the Twisted Bud coming pretty soon after Trobbio's mirror is one of the better paced things in the game

[misty drum]

f white ward

[misty drum]

neeextt

[verbal steeple]

reaper glazer? bro glazes trash.

[inland wind]

Pintress Animatronic everyone fucking loves for some reason

[void moat]

https://tenor.com/view/no-correlation-xy-dots-gif-7901710

[misty drum]

next

[coarse leaf]

Reaper crest is fun

[plain tundra]

"Man Trobbio's mirror is cool I wish there was a crest with 3 blue slots to synergize with it"
The glorious witch crest:

[errant vessel]

Reaper hate is so two months ago

[misty drum]

it makes sense logically so lock in pls

[subtle rain]

Lace 2?

[verbal steeple]

no it is not. it is trash.

[inland wind]

I will buy lace plushy just to deep fry it

[misty drum]

lock in harder

[void moat]

like, idk, voltvyrm or something

[coarse leaf]

It’s not good for dps but I like its moveset and it’s good for exploring sometimes

[verbal steeple]

i wanna drown lace in the sea of sorrowsd

[inland wind]

Pintress Robot thing with existentcial crisis

NO

[verbal steeple]

you think i like lace? i don't. i wanna drown her

[subtle rain]

First sinner bro I give up this is the weirdest boss order i have ever seen 😭

[native canyon]

lace haters are homophobic and ableist

[inland wind]

THE FUNNY GOLDEN ROBOT THIRD TRY

[void moat]

every minute im in here i lose 10 braincells

[misty drum]

yours is no streak. Your existence is made entirely out of failure

[chrome granite]

Why?

[misty drum]

next one

[plain tundra]

Reaper Crest is the only crest that flat out lowers dps, right?

[native canyon]

she's gay and disabled

[chrome granite]

huh?

[inland wind]

Child Coal Mine Labour Enthusiest Brothers

[verbal steeple]

i wanna DROWN LACE IN THE SEA OF SORROW

[coarse leaf]

We not having lace shipping in here bro

[dawn needle]

Seth has left Shellwoof
Where now

[native canyon]

don't call me bro and it's not shipping to call someone gay

[subtle rain]

OF COURSE NOW ITS LACE2

[inland wind]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-gun-gif-15739125686800511745

[misty drum]

either grand gate either flea festival

[void moat]

can i ask a genuine question, like, no ragebait

[misty drum]

and of course now it is...

[native canyon]

yeah sure

[inland wind]

Grand Fraud Silk

[subtle rain]

Gms

[coarse leaf]

Nah that’s fine I’m just used to people following that up with lace hornet stuff

[misty drum]

good now something that was already said

[inland wind]

Ok now Coal Mine experts

FUCK

[void moat]

i dont know what to think, but i feel like giving lace (who i consider a child character) any sexuality is wrong, im not sure if that's right to think though or if i should reconsider

[misty drum]

good now good luck with this one

[inland wind]

Ok now fr this time that Golden Nonbinary Robot everyone loves for some fucking reason

[subtle rain]

Im calling unraveled out of nowhere

[chrome granite]

I guess asexuality is the way.

[misty drum]

I'll give you 3 chances

[misty drum]

remember that

[inland wind]

Coal Mine Experts???

[errant vessel]

I was still gay when I was a child

[native canyon]

I mean children can be gay (speaking as someone that was a gay kid)

[inland wind]

Broodmother

[void moat]

mmm, i suppose that's true

[native canyon]

even so I don't see lace as a child character necessarily

[errant vessel]

I also think lace's age is debatable, but it is valid to consider her a child

[native canyon]

her story of rebellion can also serve as her growing up

[inland wind]

https://tenor.com/view/jesse-pinkman-mad-breaking-bad-mad-jesse-breaking-bad-gif-5688024755014043527

[plain tundra]

Forget Beastfly, that is bottom two

[verbal steeple]

i really hope people don't do another lace discourse

[misty drum]

3
2
1

[verbal steeple]

weave had enough

[inland wind]

https://tenor.com/view/aaronpaul-aaron-paul-cry-crying-gif-7621646

ACT 3????

[void moat]

it's debatable and will always be debated because this community debates everything, but i consider there to be more evidence of lace being a child than not so that's the view i take up

[native canyon]

SETH?!

[subtle rain]

Random Seth bro I should just i should just jump in lava in beastfly 2 fight atp

[verbal steeple]

i don't understand what's happening

[subtle rain]

Imagine if the next one isnt nyleth

[misty drum]

but it has been there already

[verbal steeple]

why are people being shocked about seth

[misty drum]

elegy of the deep out of where?

[void moat]

plus i feel like lace being a child adds to her tragedy

[safe ore]

Are there 10 max masks or 9

[verbal steeple]

10

[native canyon]

I think her story is more depressing if she can't escape being a child

[void moat]

10

[misty drum]

so the next one

this one is easy

[native canyon]

abuse victim will never be able to escape the abuser's image of her

[verbal steeple]

lost garmond

[chrome granite]

Wait, you need to beat forebrothers to go thr abyss so the snail shamans give the elegy, so it is not nyleth

[misty drum]

and it's been said a shi ton of times

[inland wind]

Theme of eternal child is just in general cool ever since ancient mythology

[subtle rain]

Its obviously crawfather

Trust

[native canyon]

this is the strangest boss order of all time

[errant vessel]

It's a fair read! I tend to think Hornet addressing her as 'child' comes from a place of Hornet being relatively ancient as an immortal being and a little condescending, and lace being a little bratty and immature stems from her inability to escape her mother's design for her as a child

[verbal steeple]

second sentinal? where's the first one

[native canyon]

HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GUESS ANY OF THESE ATP

[misty drum]

then call out the next one

[misty drum]

ummm Lace ig

[subtle rain]

Wait sentinel... It might be unraveled time

[inland wind]

Easy???

[verbal steeple]

in my first HK playthrough i did gruz mother as like one of the last bosses

[misty drum]

yeah?

u mentioned it like 3 times

[subtle rain]

This order makes me want to shaw myself

[inland wind]

Count your days

[void moat]

yeah i see that

[misty drum]

next one cmon u got this

[errant vessel]

Otherwise it's a little sad to me to think of Hornet putting Phantom down (if Lace and Phantom are truly both children)

[lofty shell]

lmao gruz mother is the first ever boss i fought in hk
even before false knight

[azure patrol]

I NEED A MANTIS LORD SKIN MOD FOR THIS GAME

[native canyon]

I think it's really funny if lace is older than hornet

[subtle rain]

Atp im just gonna say unraveled until its unraveled

[lofty shell]

phantom is older
she like, decayed from aging and stuff

[misty drum]

It could be

[sleek roost]

is it just me or is the grand mother silk theme really underrated

[lofty shell]

its absolute cinema
its in my top 5 themes

[misty drum]

pls don't I fought that one in act 3

[subtle rain]

https://tenor.com/view/tense1983-keyboard-smash-spanish-rage-gif-24740814

[sleek roost]

real

[inland wind]

It’s not bad, just not as good as the Hollow Knight Theme

[misty drum]

CMON BABE THE NEXT ONE

[lofty shell]

my top 5 silksong themes

1. last dive
2. lost lace
3. enter pharloom
4. grand mother silk
5. widow

[misty drum]

hmmmm

[inland wind]

Uhhh

Voltvessel

[verbal steeple]

double moss mother

[inland wind]

Nvm bell eater

[misty drum]

"the needle could use a little sharpening" lil tenant said after contemplating his life choices

[lofty shell]

sealed vessel is one of the best themes in HK franchise
the best theme in HK

[misty drum]

that was after widow

[verbal steeple]

well. that makes sense.

[foggy fossil]

Best theme in both games imo

[sleek roost]

how is the intro for lost lace higher than lost lace

[verbal steeple]

you got the needlion and remembered there was a door in the beginning

can u get the bellhome in act 2 or do u need to get it in act 3

[serene stump]

Anyone got Ranking of the best crests in the game?

[misty drum]

pretty sure u need bellhomr to enter act 3

[subtle rain]

You need bellhome to get act 3

[native canyon]

THIS ORDER IS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE TO GUESS

[inland wind]

Are you in act 3??

[misty drum]

they're all equal tbf

[native canyon]

THIS GAME IS TOO NON-LINEAR

[inland wind]

HOWDID YOU KILL SETH

[chrome granite]

except architect

[misty drum]

Jumped

[subtle rain]

My goat

[misty drum]

NEXT ONE

[inland wind]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-breaking-bad-gif-3809580435984736996

[serene stump]

They aren't tho...

[chrome granite]

architect is overpowered but grindy.

[serene stump]

I use reaper

[misty drum]

if someone needs coping it's you

NEXT ONE NEXT ONE

[serene stump]

I'm not coping tho?

I'm just asking about which crests are considered good

[arctic epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/average-witch-crest-speed-kill-gif-16326558384304353968

[subtle rain]

After lugoli.. hm. I think.. unraveled 🔥

[misty drum]

oh right ur the guy asking... uhhh..... wanderer but reaper is more than fine

[meager storm]

[barren dew]

Who pinged me

[chrome granite]

two trobbio is better than one trobbio

[misty drum]

ur getting closer but still not there yet

[subtle rain]

SHAKRA??

[serene stump]

Died more times on this boss then the entire game

[misty drum]

same blud

ALRIGHT FROM THIS POINT ON I'M IN ACT 3

[chrome granite]

Wait but you already did seth

[native canyon]

WHY WASN'T GMS THE LAST BOSS IN ACT 2

[meager storm]

loving the double enemies mod, makes the bossfights like x10 more fun sometimes

[errant vessel]

Which boss did everyone have the most trouble with? I think first sinner walled me the hardest

[misty drum]

Cuz I don't count it twice

[subtle rain]

Fucking. Broodmother. God i hate that piece of shit

[arctic epoch]

Pintress

[native canyon]

WHY DID YOU EVEN BOTHER WITH WEAVER QUEEN IF YOU WERE GOING FOR ACT 3

[misty drum]

honestly first sinner....

[meager storm]

khans bum ahh coral tower gauntlet, partially because i was trying to use the witch crest 😭

[misty drum]

ACT 3 ACT 3 WHO 'S NEXT?

[subtle rain]

Bell eater

[misty drum]

THERE'S ONE BOSS I CONFIRMED WAS IN ACT 3

[chrome granite]

forebrothers signis and gron

[misty drum]

CMON BRO I KNOW U CAN DO IT

[subtle rain]

UNRAVELED

[void moat]

signis and gron are act 2

[misty drum]

YAAAAAASSSSSS

[chrome granite]

but you can fight them inj act 3

[void moat]

yes but you can also fight them in act 2

[subtle rain]

https://tenor.com/view/penguinz0-moistcritikal-gif-27692002

[misty drum]

and seth is act 3

NEXT ONE

[void moat]

yes but you can skip to seth in act 2

[subtle rain]

Ok now I'll say bell eater

[void moat]

crawfather

[misty drum]

YOU'RE ON FIRE

[tight viper]

Think that’s patched

[foggy fossil]

tormented trobbio

[misty drum]

NEXT ONE (don't worry it's nothing out of place)

[tight viper]

Beast crest charge jump boost thingy is gone

[void moat]

has it? huh

[chrome granite]

signis and gron

[misty drum]

WOOOOOOOOO

[misty drum]

but I beat them already

[foggy fossil]

i knew it

[subtle rain]

ITS MOTHING HUH?

[chrome granite]

i forgor, sorry

[misty drum]

good I beat Seth, now that I'm in act 3 I can.....

[subtle rain]

NYLETH

[subtle rain]

Perchance

[tight viper]

You can’t just say perchance

[misty drum]

NEXT

[subtle rain]

Hm.. Will they go for more hearts or something else..

[earnest cliff]

what's up old man

[chrome granite]

Clover Dancers

[misty drum]

it's an act 2 boss I missed

[foggy fossil]

UNRAVELLED

[tight viper]

Smh imagine having only the basic hunters crest this far into the game

[misty drum]

these are the ones I've already mentioned

[worldly valve]

I lost her

[chrome granite]

garmond and zaza

[foggy fossil]

oh

Second Sentinel then

[misty drum]

I said act 2 and u can't fight them in act 3

[foggy fossil]

can't do them in act 3

[chrome granite]

I forgot

[misty drum]

sorry that one too

[subtle rain]

Im blanking

[misty drum]

I put broodmother twice instead of sentinel

CMON GUYS

YOU CAN DO IT

[tight viper]

Voltvyrm

[subtle rain]

OH TRUE

FUCK

[misty drum]

YEAAAAAASSSS

[austere ridge]

Should I do coral king khan or clover dancers first?

[misty drum]

now back to those hearts (f no I'm doing khann)

[tight viper]

Kill the King

[subtle rain]

Clover dancers

[misty drum]

@austere ridge

ALRIGHT IT'S RELATED TO CURRENT TOPIC YALL CAN DO IT

[exotic cedar]

Khann if you want really fun gauntlets
Clover dancers if you want to witness a beatiful area and explore it

[icy crow]

About to fight Lace 1 in my Steel Soul file

[tight viper]

Scarborough Caramel

[subtle rain]

Karm?

I said clover dancers first and didn't get a response so

[austere ridge]

Alright thanks

[tight viper]

Palestag