hk-lore

[scenic surge]

especially through text

as the nuance of having that jokey voice or expression is lost via text

unless you do this emoji ig

from the elevation by gms I suppose

[young horizon]

Would grubfather survive Great Split: Horisontal™?

[scenic surge]

true

[stoic escarp]

I suppose it’s because the dedicated their whole life to weaving

[scenic surge]

they made advanced automatons

they made advanced automatons

thanks to silkflies

who power basically every single one of them

where as the pale king created automatons that just use proper batteries

it's not that impressive when instead of using proper technology you just use silkflies

who are just the souls of poor pilgrims

and I mean the cogwork core was created by the conductors

I suppose it's still impressive that they made technology advanced to hallownests level

or to a similar level to hallownest

[stoic escarp]

I believe it’s even more advanced than hallownest

[scenic surge]

it's really not

the only thing they are more advanced in is metal work

and the automatons

that's it

as hornet states hallownest would have NEVER been capable of the level of metal working pharloom does

as they had a climate and natural terrains which allowed them to do so

and the automatons are obviously a lot more advanced

given they use the souls of poor pilgrims

or in hte claw maidens case a ton of (and I mean a ton of) silk

other then that you genuinely couldn't really mention anything pharloom is more advanced in

those guys in particular are not run on silkflies

seemingly on silk

like the clawmaidens

[plush widget]

Guys who is little fool ?

[livid vine]

|| Never || || gonna || || give || || you || || up || || Never || || gonna || || let || || you || || down || || Never || || gonna || || run || || you || || around || || and desert || || you ||

[loud crater]

Hes a common bug eho works in the Collosium.

Hes also an ex combatant who didn't die, so it seems.

[plush widget]

Bruh

[plush widget]

Why is he chained up then ?

[loud crater]

I dunno. He seems to think he'll be back in battle soon tho. Maybe its some kind of punishment for cheating ig.

[hot lily]

she explicitly rejects being called a higher being, so no she's not a "half" HB

[scenic surge]

??????????

she literally acknowledges being one

and just states that she's not like her kin

[hot lily]

she acknowledges being a pale being

[scenic surge]

she acknowledges being a higher being as well

have you seen the mask makers dialogue?

or have you not

[scenic surge]

"Ahh. Know you distort the order of things, Old One. It is a rare want of your caste to serve us mortal bugs.
Hornet: I am not my kin, Maker. I have seen enough pain born of their dominion. As much as I may, I choose to stand apart."

"ou're planning a confrontation with her then? The one atop? Our great, frayed god?
Hornet: Our meeting seems inevitable, though first I seek the strength to ensure a favourable outcome.
Ha! As I'd have guessed! Your ancient kind aren't told to abide one another peaceably."

"Aye. But isn't it always such for those snared to serve your higher caste?"

"Ha! I'm not surprised! It's always the way, aye? Your ancient kind, vying for dominion, and us mortal bugs squashed unseen underneath."

and yes gms is a highe being

she even get's called us such in her journal entry

so idk what you're talking about

[hot lily]

"(Hornet and Lace dialogue in the Citadel) Hornet: "Your kingdom is in the thrall of a creature beyond bug, one of that higher caste."

she herself does not consider herself a HB

[scenic surge]

that's,,,,,,,

what?

nowhere in that line of dialogue does she talk about herself

and mask maker literally refers to her as such

and Hornet literally says she's not like her kin serrara

wdym

[sage bronze]

she's not a god the reason she gets compared to one a lot is because she isn'ta normal bug either, the point is that she exists in an awkward in between place but this is not an hk lore topic

and they are her kin that doesn't mean she's one of them

[scenic surge]

I said she's part higher being

not that she is one

serrara is suggesting that she isn't a higher being at all

which isn't true

obviously she's not a "God"

[loud crater]

Shes genetically part Higher Being but she isnt part of that caste.

[scenic surge]

mask maker states that she is

and hornet never disputes any of his claims other then what her intentions are

[sage bronze]

she literally does but that's not a topic for this channel

[loud crater]

She goes out of her way to separate herself from them.

[scenic surge]

"Aye. But isn't it always such for those snared to serve your higher caste?"

[sage bronze]

😐

yes that is the thing she rejects

[loud crater]

Also yeah why does this keep happening?

[scenic surge]

Is it okay if you forwarded it

in any channel that you wish to continue this

if it's okay with you horf ;-;

" I am not my kin, Maker. I have seen enough pain born of their dominion. As much as I may, I choose to stand apart."?

[loud crater]

If we continue this it should probably be in the Skong lore channel.

[scenic surge]

is this the one you're referring to

[scenic surge]

as she acknowledges them as her kin

but how she wants to stand apart from them

[scenic surge]

Yeah good idea

no

[frail musk]

what is this

[loud crater]

What is wrong with you.

Should I ping mods? I'm not sure.

[hot lily]

<@&283547423706447872>

[modest saffron]

okay

dang

bye bye

[whole arrow]

im gonna say it again, flukes foreshadowed void enemies in silksong

[neat kite]

that's really interesting, i never thought about it before

[loud crater]

How so?

[stable raptor]

would yall live in the city of tears if it existed

[loud crater]

No because I'm not a city person.

[split compass]

it's a little damp

and filled with violent zombies

maybe if I had a little office full of lore like Lemm

[stable raptor]

pre infection

[stable raptor]

👍

[scenic surge]

oh hey shadax

[scenic surge]

absolutely yes

Great architecture

great housing

good protection

stable income

sounds perfect for me

[stable raptor]

yo

[stable raptor]

best thing about the area fr

i loved that design

[scenic surge]

I mean I could live ino ne of the lesser cities

as the stone slab

does state that city of tears is the CAPITAL city

and there's a bunch of stuff we see far reaching in the backround of various hallownest areas

so I could also just live in one of those cities

or just one of the towns

as crossroads and dirtmouth showcase that the towns are also rather good

[stable raptor]

crossroads dosent really seem like a town

aside from the one menderbug lives in

[scenic surge]

the town where salubra lives

[scenic surge]

no crossroads isn't a town itself

but we see there are various settlements

in different places

like the one with salubra

and I'm not sure what else to call that settlement

other then crossroads town

[stable raptor]

hm

[abstract mist]

Im back guys i tried your suggestions but i still couldn’t get the trophy

I now have 161/161 entries

[spring dust]

Defenitaly

[dense mirage]

There’s a giant bug corpse thing in the Queen’s Gardens and it kinda looks like the bug ||you bind to get Beast Crest in Hunters March|| in Silksong, is there any relation between those bugs that we know of or is it just coincidence?

[split compass]

no known relation - they are simply large, vaguely similar bugs

[stable raptor]

nah

probably just equivalent of dinosaurs to us

[dense mirage]

Probably

[orchid dirge]

primal aspids

[green pilot]

All of the giant bugs are just giant bugs

The only two big corpses that have significance in hallownest are the pale kings wyrm corpse and maybe the arena of fools

[stray comet]

What about the crystal guys that are hanging on the way to cdash

[buoyant igloo]

a bug is a bug, the end

[stray comet]

Real

[green pilot]

Are they really that significant to the story?

[stray comet]

Trust

What about the void creature

[green pilot]

Which one

[stray comet]

Yes

[green pilot]

🤔

You are probably referring to the howling wraith shaman

Since as we all know and understand shamans are 110% void

[stray comet]

No the one at god home life blood

Under the bridge

Idk if it is a bridge but

[green pilot]

Oh abyss creature

[stray comet]

Oh yeah mb

[green pilot]

I mean that's not a corpse

That's probably a higher being

I'm like 99% sure of it

[stray comet]

Could be more of a servant or child like hollow knight

[green pilot]

I mean I guess but sometimes the simplest answer is the best answer

[stray comet]

I guesss

[prime surge]

Yo smth tells me that there is still another vessel that escaped that we don’t know of

[brittle scaffold]

tytus you like slime rancher

[loud crater]

There are probably a few.

[orchid dirge]

what would nosk look like before the infection??

[loud crater]

I dunno.

[indigo venture]

Probably wouldn't have the infection bulge

[loud crater]

Maybe itd be more smart.

[orchid dirge]

same thing with the aspids

[orchid dirge]

i feel like it would still have the bulge but it would be a different color

[split compass]

green or yellow

[azure meteor]

aspids would be green, nosk would have blue

[split compass]

ss cut content:

like that

[orchid dirge]

oh yeah i remember that

[orchid dirge]

why blue?

[azure meteor]

because i imagine that sack would be filled with water from below the beasts den, but then it might also be gray

[orchid dirge]

yeah grey would be better

because blue would make it look like lifeblood

[azure meteor]

yeah makes sense, it would work as blue with the lifeblood radiance mod though as blue

hey, you wanna make lore for an AU?

[orchid dirge]

what kind of au?

[azure meteor]

it's called hk reality, it takes place after an alternate ending of hk

[orchid dirge]

no thanks, though i appreciate the offer

[azure meteor]

oh, okay, i'll send you a link incase you get interested

[orchid dirge]

sure go ahead

[prime surge]

Which ending

[azure meteor]

one i made myself, called shade and shell

[prime surge]

What is it about?????

[ivory zenith]

What if it has its intellect EXACTLY because of the infection

[loud crater]

The infection reverts bugs to baser instincts.

We can see this with the Traitor Mantises.

[ivory zenith]

Mmm mm

And Broken Vessel too

[prime surge]

Do you guys think Nosk has access to the abyss or he just hunts any vessel that escapes and enters deepnest

[loud crater]

That's a reanimated shell.

[azure meteor]

instead of the dream no more ending purging the radiance, it just trapped it in hollow knight's shell, but the hks shade was separated, and now the radiance controls the hk shell directly

[loud crater]

It kills any Vessels that escape the Abyss.

[ivory zenith]

Infected like everything else

[loud crater]

Its being puppeted by a bunch of lightseeds.

So no, not "like everything else"

[ivory zenith]

Fair

Wait

BV is like MMC but with a real weapon

[azure meteor]

https://klipy.com/gifs/hollow-knight-shaking--k01KR0466NXBK80JMEZ7XEMFEDV

[prime surge]

Yo they should add some who uses a sharp pencil as a spear

Idea for a weapon: 2 sided scissors, you can choose what kind of essence you want
(Void, soul, nightmare, honey, lifeblood, light, etc.)

[split compass]

mmm, quills would work I think

pencils are a bit much

[indigo venture]

"Void Essence" 🎋

[prime surge]

Void would do a lot of damage but would be heavy
Soul would allow spells but it’s also slow
Nightmare could syphon damage and speed
Light could syphon health and when enemies reach 1hp they turn into slaves
Pure nail could be big damage and average speed
Steel hive could be big speed average damage
Lifeblood could be healing every 15 seconds

[prime surge]

That list up top is for this

[royal summit]

@slow prawn Hi

[stable raptor]

[sand plover]

anyways how did the first bugs come from hallownest i mean were they created by the void or just fell in from pharloom or what?

[old pendant]

code

[stable raptor]

elaborate

[scenic surge]

what

that's nowhere implied

Where did you get the idea they all come from hallownest

there are literally ancient civilization bugs

[scenic surge]

also no they weren't created by the void

that's not something the void does

[stable raptor]

they probably come from the wastes

[scenic surge]

o-o no

okay most of the bugs from hallownest are from hallownest

most of the bugs from pharloom come from pharloom

other then the citadel bugs

[stable raptor]

but before hallownest was wastes

[scenic surge]

what

that's literally not the case

where did you get this idea from

[stable raptor]

im just saying

i barely understood what the first guy was trying to say

i thought hes talking about "where the old civilizations came from"

[scenic surge]

I mean neither do I

[scenic surge]

hallownest was always hallownest

with natural life and species evolving there

that weren't like the wastes

same goes for pharloom

[orchid dirge]

yeah

[timber snow]

yes? before the kingdom of hallownest was founded it used to be the wastes like thst surround the kingdom

the here were tribes there before, like moths and mantises but hallownest itself was built by PK and his followers and shit

[scenic surge]

they weren't wastes?

[scenic surge]

that's not what the wastes are?

[timber snow]

it literally was
that’s like saying it wasn’t a forest before humans tore it down and built a neighborhood

[scenic surge]

before hallownest it weren't the wastes

[timber snow]

it is
the wastes are the areas that surround kingdoms

[scenic surge]

bro

[timber snow]

idk whats hard to understand

[scenic surge]

could you please do me the favor of telling me where you got this idea from

also I wanna make it clear to not read this in anyway that could imply hostility

as I know when it comes to text you can read and interpret it in a lot of ways

it's a genuine request

[timber snow]

literal common sense
before PK built hallownest it was the exact same as the surrounding areas
again, it’s like saying because we built this walmart here there was never a forest or lake, you get what i’m saying?
the wastes seem to be the natural state of the world, with small pockets of kingdoms/civilastions built in between

before PK actually came there and built it and expanded the minds of the bugs in that area

it was just the wastes like the rest

[loud crater]

Most of Hallownest is bellow the surface where the Wastes would be. Also before Pale King there was still Unn, Deepnest and the Fungal Wastes. Dirtmouth, Kingspass and Howling Cliffs would be indistinguishable but the lands bellow, aka Hallownest the region™, wouldn't look like the Wastes.

[timber snow]

i’m aware, that’s what i ws saying

scroll up

back reading is a lost art

[loud crater]

You were saying it was the same as the Wastes beyond modern Hallownest tho?

Also i did back read all the messages you had sent before sending my message.

[timber snow]

and it is, a cave being in a forest doesn’t make the shit in the cave not apart of the forest

[loud crater]

Said cave is still vastly different from the forest. Just being in it doesnt make the contents of it the same.

Stone≠Wood

[timber snow]

whats so different about pre hallownest from the wastes

explain to me

cause it’s just caves like the rest of the world

whats this huge difference that makes it incorrect to call them one and the same

there are tribes here and there, there are tribes everywhere

[loud crater]

Crystal peaks, Greenpath, the giant ass lake, the half a dozen or so tribes in the region, the mushroom region, Kingdom's Edge arguably, the Ancient Basin, Deepnest.

[orchid dirge]

its probably actually had a diverse ecosytem

with plenty of flora and fauna

[loud crater]

And as you prior said, PK moved in and likely tore a bunch of shit down. The entire region of Hallownest could have been vastly different from the above wastes.

[timber snow]

again, yall are acting like geography makes it suddenly not apart of the wastes
like my god there is a lake, surely this must mean this area is wildly different and unlike anything before

[orchid dirge]

kingdoms edge and city of tears were probably something else entirely

[timber snow]

but this convo is going nowhere so i concede

[orchid dirge]

same thing with royal waterwats

[timber snow]

please back read

[orchid dirge]

what?

what the hell are you saying?

[timber snow]

i’m aware

there is still shit in the wastes

if not
there would have been nothing for PK to expand
there would be no bugs

[loud crater]

The Wastes are defined by having next to nothing. Hence their name, The Desolate Wastes/The Wilds Beyond. Hallownest having things does make ir separate from the Wastes because it isn't just a bunch of rocks, wind and mindless bugs.

[timber snow]

like obviously it’s desolate it’s in the name

[orchid dirge]

which is exactly why hallownest was different from the wastes

[timber snow]

i’m losing my mind

[orchid dirge]

it actually had a lot of bugs

[timber snow]

there are bugs everywhere chat my god

PL just expanded the bugs there nothing says there was some magical number of bugs in the area thst made it special

genuinely what are we talking about

[loud crater]

The multiple Higher Beings also make it distinct from the Wastes. Show me the Wastes' Higher Beings and I'll consider Hallownest pre-PK part of the Wastes.

[timber snow]

i’m losing my mind

goodbye chat

[loud crater]

The PK specifically chose Hallownest to die and make his Kingdom. Something about it, likely teb preexisting bug populations, made it special enough for PK to decide to settle.

[timber snow]

that’s a complete assumption
we have no idea what made him choose to die there

the ping is a magical button

[hot lily]

it's unknown as to why he chose to transform in Hallownest

[dense sonnet]

I mean come on

Is it really unreasonable to assume that Wyrms would only transform in places suitable for founding kingdoms

[dense sonnet]

I mean it could be the number of native bugs, it could be the geography of the area it could even be some abstract shit like the amount of Soul or determined by his foresight or any number of things really, it doesn’t matter
But ultimately there’s not much reason to think it was completely arbitrary and there being something different about Hallownest compared to the surrounding wastes that made PK choose it is likelier than not

[timber snow]

yea theres something about hallownest

it’s not the fucking bug population density

[dense sonnet]

Well my point is we don’t know, that’s a viable explanation

Horf suggested a few viable possibilities they weren’t claiming it had to be specifically that

For Wyrm beacons to uplift a sufficient number of bugs to sustain an entire civilization there would already have to be a sufficiently large native bug population

It’s not like they would just set up shop anywhere and uplift like three people and they aren’t known to make more people either

[supple sequoia]

is it this deep

yes

[orchid dirge]

could there be an afterlife in hollow knight?

[loud crater]

People live on in memories to a degree.

But other than that vauge shit we have no idea.

[orchid dirge]

well considering there are literal gods

it would not be a strech to assume there is

[prime surge]

Do you guys think there are other kingdoms that a pale worm travelled to to turn an empty space into a monarchy and created children? Surely there is probably one some where in Pharloom too with how much space is underground

[loud crater]

That's what Wyrms do. They build kingdoms.

[indigo venture]

Pale King? Fuck no

[split compass]

bardoon and mister mushroom confirm that other wyrms existed, at least at one time, and wyrms enthralling bugs to build kingdoms isn't unique to Hallownest
there could be any number of wyrm-founded kingdoms out there - no sign of one in Pharloom though

[stable raptor]

tbh and atleast for me HK world seems to close to greek mythologies when it comes to gods

so maybe

[indigo venture]

We dunno if any other Pale Wyrms though

Just PK

[scenic surge]

some characters in the universe believe in the afterlife so maybe

[scenic surge]

Pale wyrm no

Wyrms absolutely 100%

The thing about the pale king, godking, kinglight, pale wyrm, white wyrm, white king, dear wyrm is that well he is a PALE wyrm

that's a very specific and distinct characteristic of his

that seemingly every higher authority acknowledges him by in some way

[trail harbor]

is the knight a prince?

[near sequoia]

In the sense that its the child of the king

Its not really an heir to the throne nor is it gendered though

[trail harbor]

what even is a goal of the knight in the first place?

[near sequoia]

Stop the infection

[indigo venture]

To seal The Radiance

[trail harbor]

but for what reason?

[indigo venture]

That's the purpose it was made for

[near sequoia]

The scream the hollow knight sent out in the beginning cutscene also called it back

Along with other vessels

[trail harbor]

but why and how?

[indigo venture]

Because it did, And because It's call made some beings be brought back to Hallownest

[hot lily]

its initial goal is to stop the Infection, however the way it achieves this depends on the actions it takes

[trail harbor]

okay, but why would the knight bother about the brother that was meant to be perfect and was chosen among every other while every irrelevant vessel was thrown into the depths of the abyss to be forgotten?

[trail harbor]

plus, hollow knight was hollow without a mind nor voice, how did it scream?

[green pilot]

That's the radiance screaming through THK

[indigo venture]

Because it's purpose is now to take it's place

Also THK is not TK's brother

[green pilot]

What

[indigo venture]

?

[trail harbor]

??

[green pilot]

How are they not brothers?

[trail harbor]

why?

[ebon patio]

did you mean sibling

[indigo venture]

Because neither have gender

They are Siblings

[green pilot]

Oh whatever close enough

[trail harbor]

knight is a man for killing the fucking sun

[indigo venture]

What

[trail harbor]

why did the radiance call the vessels that were supposed to seal it?

[indigo venture]

We don't know if either THK or Radiance made the call

There's an explanation for both

[trail harbor]

show me

[green pilot]

It was the radiance

THK cannot scream

[indigo venture]

It was a silent call

[green pilot]

In it's pure form it does the same thing and no sound comes out

[indigo venture]

It may be Radiance roaring in anger at THK's last ditch effort

[trail harbor]

bluetooth?

[green pilot]

THK is a phone confirmed

[indigo venture]

I mean yeah

Kind of

THK does have psychic abilities

[trail harbor]

can it call me?

[green pilot]

She was cursing at the pale king

[green pilot]

It does?

[indigo venture]

World Sense

[indigo venture]

Probably

[green pilot]

World sense is gained by looking at that egg thing

[trail harbor]

??

[indigo venture]

It was made for THK

I'd figure THK has it

[green pilot]

Oh

[hot lily]

THK was not pure and neither is TK

[trail harbor]

so it had a voice?

[indigo venture]

No

[marble birch]

The ‘voice’ screaming out of it is Radiance.

[near sequoia]

Void minds are probably connected on some level, the "why" of it is that TK wanted to do it

A call from beyond the Seals?
By the Vessel, or by that captive light?

The dreamers suggest that the scream might've been from Rad but its also possible that he infection gave it a voice

[near sequoia]

Its kind of difficult to dig into this beyond "It wanted to do it" because at the end of the day its a silent protagonist that wants to do good deeds cuz its the hero

[hot lily]

i mean idk if you'd call it a hero

[near sequoia]

No matter which ending it chooses its a net positive

[brave iron]

may someone please explain to me why the hollow knight, who is full grown and a sibling, is so much larger than the knight who is also apparently full grown?

[hot lily]

THK was "raised and trained" likely via magic, which caused artificial growth

this is something TK cannot experience

[brave iron]

ngl in my mind that kinda makes the hollow knight feel like a bit of a mutant XD

[humble isle]

Mutate the knight please. I want a shade mutated knight growth

That would be epic

[quasi dawn]

Could other higher beings (like absolute radiance, Grimm etc) have a smaller form? Like how pale king has a smaller form of himself despite being a wyrm

[split compass]

impossible to say really, we don't know all that much about higher beings

bardoon had an interesting line about that

Once told, it came to die. But what is death for that ancient being? More transformation methinks.

who knows if its something higher beings or even other wyrms can do

(if you think about it though, Grimm is already sort of the smaller form of a higher being - more a vessel though)

[quasi dawn]

Ic, my guess is that they have those forms but they only use them to not disrupt the world (like if absolute radiance would appear in hollowest everything would be cooked) so my theory is that she used a smaller form of herself to project herself into the world so the moth tribe could worship her

[quasi dawn]

Hmm sounds like a decent theory but how would someone like pale king rebirth into?

[split compass]

Radiance likely just appeared in the dreams of her followers, that was her whole thing

it would have been harder for her followers to turn their back on her if she'd had a presence in the waking world

hard to ignore a god that can show up and yell at you

[quasi dawn]

Could be, maybe she was using the smaller form in the dreams? (Like the moths could see radiance looking as more of a moth rather than some boundless being) and us player breaking into her realm is revealing her true form

[split compass]

I suppose a higher being might have that power, but I doubt Radiance ever did - there's a large statue of her in Hallownest's Crown, presumably built by followers of her that saw her image in their dreams

that suggests she appeared in her true form to them

otherwise she's just described as a light

the Pale Wyrm taking the form of a king might have been an effort to do things differently, dealing with bugs on their own level

Godseeker mentions they 'reduced their form to match the meager shells' of mortal bugs

[quasi dawn]

Yeah could be but same could be applied with the pale king statues since he also has his mouth as his crown so it could be possible that her miniature form keeps some of the aspects of her appearance

[quasi dawn]

Oh this sounds believable Lowkey

[hot lily]

uh, Radiance made the Moths

[split compass]

you're kidding

next you'll tell me she's responsible for the Infection somehow

[indigo venture]

The Radiance created the Infection yes

[split compass]

whaaat

[quasi dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/crine-im-crine-son-im-crine-anthony-mackie-tiktok-gif-10273212848663596705

[vagrant pivot]

If the knight is the only creature that we see uses charm notches and charms, then where did charms actually come from? What were they made for before the knight? If for other vessels, how come we dont find charms in the hands of those vessels?

[loud crater]

Sly uses Nail Master's Glory.

Other people can use Charms.

Markoth infamously uses Dream Shield.

The Mantis Tribe just gives out Marks of Pride to those they respect.

[brisk venture]

Charms are the last wills of dying bugs

[loud crater]

Some are. Others are naturally made in the environment(Deep Focus), manufactured(Nail Master's Glory), made by inanimate objects(Quick Slash) or made by some magic bs(Grimmchild, Dream Wielder, Kingsoul etc etc)

[brisk venture]

Yeaa

[split compass]

also Sprintmaster

You like it? It's a recent addition to my collection. Handsome thing, isn't it?
Holding it lets you run around quickly and tirelessly, as though you were young again! Or, erm, so I'm told.

[wheat oxide]

We should build a corner shop in the abyss

[brisk venture]

We should build a walmart in the abyss it's too much empty space

[wheat oxide]

Yeah r there any food places in the abyss people might starve

[vagrant pivot]

Okay but where are charm notches stored?

And where do they come from

[loud crater]

Imo on the inside of the cloak.

[loud crater]

Likely manufactured.

[vagrant pivot]

The cloak is the knight's wings

We would see them

And wouldnt they fall off

[loud crater]

We should also see its mouth, fingers and other tiny details. Its an art style decision.

[vagrant pivot]

Does it have a mouth or fingers though

[loud crater]

Yes.

We just don't seem them because of the art style.

[vagrant pivot]

Do we ever see tbe knight eat or drink

[loud crater]

No because it doesn't need to.

[vagrant pivot]

It doesnt speak

[loud crater]

It still has a mouth.

[vagrant pivot]

How do we know this for a fact

Other than "it just does"

[loud crater]

Vessels look like common bugs and common bugs, like Zote, have mouths.

[vagrant pivot]

But on those common bugs like zote

We actually see a mouth

[loud crater]

Its an art style decision. Plus if they didnt have mouths people would comment on that.

Its like their fingers. We just don't seem them because of the art style.

[vagrant pivot]

If its an art style decision then having mouths on some creatures and then not for others even if they all had mouths

[loud crater]

They're just inconsistent on that. Some characters like Quirrel that are roughly our size have fingers while Hornet doesnt.

But she still does have fingers.

[vagrant pivot]

Personally I think that theres no reason for a vessel to have a mouth

Given they dont eat or drink or speak

They are a different form of life

[loud crater]

Vessels arent a manufacturered creature. The shell is that of an unborn child of the Pale King and White Lady.

And again they look like common bugs who have mouths.

TC just didnt feel like adding mouths to every single Vessel we see.

[vagrant pivot]

They themselves are not common bugs though

[loud crater]

But they look like them. It makes no sense for them to lack a mouth.

[vagrant pivot]

And this also brings me to another idea that the pale king and white lady dont have visible mouths either

[loud crater]

PK's mouth is likely on the top of his head.

And WL speaks like a normal person.

[vagrant pivot]

Nor do we see food or drink in the actual palace

[loud crater]

We only see its highly altered version. In the Dream Realm.

[vagrant pivot]

You dont chow down on kfc buckets in your dreams?

[loud crater]

No.

[vagrant pivot]

Bummer

[scenic surge]

I was gonna say "no voice to cry suffering" but bugs would probably comment on the fact that the knight has no mouth

[split compass]

vessels have a mouth (and they can scream with it)
they do apparently lack a nose, though...

[karmic isle]

Where did The Hollow Knight go in the Dream No More ending?

[indigo venture]

To rest in the Abyss

[karmic isle]

We don’t see it’s shell

[indigo venture]

Like all other Shades

[karmic isle]

It’s weird how we don’t see its shell

Like where’d that shell go

[indigo venture]

Imploded

[karmic isle]

Shouldn’t it be right next to Hornet if she was literally stabbing through it?

[ebon patio]

💥 💥 💥

probably

[sweet shell]

did the PK throw all the vessels to the abyss and only the hollow knight climbed out?

or did he throw all the vessels in except the hollow knight

[dense sonnet]

The former

More accurately, the Vessels hatched at the bottom and climbed up to the top

Only THK was deemed suitable and the rest of them were left behind

[loud crater]

Like we saw in the THK ending, it fully fucking explodes.

[karmic isle]

That was when we ate the hollow knight

Everyone was fricking passed out unconscious during the radiance fight probably

[quasi dawn]

Ok but genuinely HOW did followers of the pale king are even supposed to be moving around the white palace if the entire thing is covered in saws, spikes, etc

[indigo venture]

I mean before they were there I'd figure they moved just fine

And inside the Dream Realm, the devotees are probably just Memories

[quasi dawn]

Can’t imagine js having to walk through a path of pain js to get sum food

[indigo venture]

PoP didn't exist

[quasi dawn]

Wdym

[indigo venture]

Path of Pain only began existing after the Palace was transported into the Dream Realm

[quasi dawn]

Ah ic

[loud crater]

Before it was moved into the Dream Realm it was a normal euclidian space without floating vs everywhere.

[split compass]

far fewer buzzsaws, one assumes

[loud crater]

There were still enough for Hornet to ge familiar with them tho

[loud crater]

That would have been what the Kingsmoulds were for.

And the palace being super far down without easy public transit.

[fading crane]

This is canon?
If so, where do we see purple essence in the game?

[loud crater]

Probably GPZ.

[fading crane]

🤔

[fading crane]

I don't see purple essence in his background

[loud crater]

Looks pretty purple on his wiki entry.

Well maybe lavender actually.

[sudden aurora]

Is lifeblood like a drug

Or is it just the infection

[loud crater]

Its a drug with severe side effects.

Its like steroids, morphine and toxic waste all rolled up into one unholy blue liquid.

[sudden aurora]

I see

Funne blue stuff

[humble current]

How

[subtle axle]

sometimes purple, sometimes white, sometimes milky white, even maybe yellow

it depends

[ashen perch]

Guys? is Void a being or a substance that acts opposite to light?

[young rain]

Both iirc

[ashen perch]

oh

thank you

[scenic surge]

void is a substance

[scenic surge]

No zl got it wrong

void isn't a being

it's a substance

[scenic surge]

Void is literally said not to have a self or will

they literally don't have a lord nor are they a strength

[ashen perch]

oki

thanks

[subtle axle]

does the delicate flower repel the void

[scenic surge]

yes

[subtle axle]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm soooooo… a fucking flower is stronger then a god of light

awesome

[idle geyser]

wait when was this stated

[scenic surge]

by lemm

"You may have come upon them, those old statues that seem a store for soul? They too prove its existence, though in a larger, cruder form."

[grim star]

Can anyone Explain lost kin lore

[scenic surge]

they are a discarded vessel who somehow managed to get out of the abyss

and perished in the ancient basin

only for their corpse to then be puppeteered by lightseeds

[hasty tusk]

You can click on the little number after a sentence, like the [9] here, and it will show the source.

[idle geyser]

oh

I didn't see that

[loud crater]

The Radiance is just made of light. And she had to be specifically weakened to be killed. And it was unified Void, which is more powerful than ununified Void.

[hot lily]

false, PK was wrong

[opaque plume]

It's been a while since u was here what is going on

[scenic surge]

I'm not talking about the pk

[hot lily]

ok then it's the AC dialogue in SS right

that's hardly an objective source

[scenic surge]

??

it's from the ancient civilization who literally knew the most about the void

[scenic surge]

"...No will... No self..."

"Erase our fear,
Eliminate our desire,
To suffer no more,
Void, cleanse us"

"Inspired or mad, those ancient bugs. They devoted their worship to no lord, or power, or strength, but to the very darkness itself.""

"Fragments of void taking the shape of sharp, thrashing tendrils."

just fragments of void taking the shape of tendrils

[opaque plume]

Weren't the god seekers looking for shade lord

[scenic surge]

do I need to keep going

[scenic surge]

they literally were looking for the pale king

[opaque plume]

They were looking for god of gods

[scenic surge]

his lingering afterglow was enough for them to trackdown hallownest

[hot lily]

and yet Ellina states in WJ that it's capable of making decisions

[scenic surge]

the shade lord is literally the knight

[scenic surge]

Ellina also states that the hive isn't infected

do you wanna go there?

[opaque plume]

The shade lord is void given focus

[scenic surge]

and the knight is that said shade lord

[opaque plume]

No the knight combined with his siblings to create th3 shade lord,

[scenic surge]

????????

where did you get that idea from

[hot lily]

@sage bronze
Ellina doesn't say that, that's a misreading

She says it's "unmarred by the spread of the Infection", not that it is not Infected

[opaque plume]

It's in th3 game and who is ellina

[buoyant chasm]

@hot lily Yeah, I think it means they weren’t impacted much

[hot lily]

believing that you lack a will/self and actually lacking those qualia are 2 different things

[scenic surge]

unmarred by the infection

[opaque plume]

Is this about the hive or ?

[buoyant chasm]

Yeah the hive

[scenic surge]

that literally just means the same thing

they literally aren't unmarred from it

they literally are impacted by the infection

[buoyant chasm]

Because unmarried could mean that they weren’t impacted much

[hot lily]

not meaningfully

[opaque plume]

Well when you hit an infected with the nail you can see some orange stuff and everyone in the hive has that

[hot lily]

they find Radiance's light familiar and still maintain their civilization

[buoyant chasm]

Because the hive mind wasn’t different from the infection much

From Vespa

[hot lily]

exactly, so Ellina isn't wrong

[scenic surge]

"something remains completely undamaged, unspoiled, or flawless"

[buoyant chasm]

Yeah, their minds were damaged but not their way of living

[scenic surge]

by that logic neither are the sentries

[opaque plume]

Yeah maybe they are infected but are in control

[scenic surge]

???

[buoyant chasm]

Well no, because the sentries did not operate under a hive mind like the bees

[scenic surge]

Basically you're saying that everybody is wrong

[opaque plume]

Speaking of infected are uummuu or the watcher knights infected since they still do their job and have dialogue on protecting they're dreamer

[buoyant chasm]

Hmm

Well the watcher knights are dead

[opaque plume]

True but whatever remains must still have will

[buoyant chasm]

Yeah cause they don’t have the generic infected dialogue

But uumuu is actually probably not infected

Like the other jellyfish

[loud crater]

The shells are being puppeted.

[buoyant chasm]

By the lumaflies who are infected

[opaque plume]

Uumuu does seem pretty dedicated plus his dialogue speaks of not been in depire

[loud crater]

The Dreamnail Dialogue is from the Essence imprint on the shells.

[opaque plume]

So what remains of the original watcher knights

[loud crater]

The shells.

[buoyant chasm]

And then the lumaflies are from the chandeliers and lights in watcher’s spire that have become infected?

[opaque plume]

So yes the watcher knights are infected are difficult to beat

[loud crater]

Its just regular flies.

[buoyant chasm]

Wait what

[rugged comet]

Hunter's Journal: Watcher Knight

Description:
Discarded shell of a Watcher Knight, re-animated by a swarm of infected flies.

Hunter's notes:
When these silent warriors fall in battle, their bodies split open and strange bugs come flying out. I wonder, what will come flying out of me when I die? Will my hopes and fears drift away into the darkness?

Dream Nail:
Defend...Seal...
Light...Full...
...Strong husk...

@lexmolten used /journal name: Watcher Knight

[opaque plume]

They are difficult to beat

[loud crater]

Yeah I guess.

At least for a newer player.

[scenic surge]

hey horf

[opaque plume]

Excuse me

[loud crater]

Yo.

[scenic surge]

how are you doing man

hopefully you're doing well

[opaque plume]

Newer player

[loud crater]

Pretty damn good.

[loud crater]

Yeah. After a while of playing they arent really all that hard.

[opaque plume]

Have you faced them on ascended

Or radiance

[loud crater]

Yes.

Both.

I've beaten P5.

[buoyant chasm]

Especially if you have ddark or ddive

[opaque plume]

They are one of the only 5 I haven't radianced

Okay maybe I am just bad at double bosses

[scenic surge]

yes

[scenic surge]

Same here man

[opaque plume]

Thanks for the comfort atleast I am not alone

[buoyant chasm]

Hold on did I miss the original question

[dry grove]

Shade lord is a very new thing right?

Why is it the only statue in godhome that shows any damage from aging

[dry grove]

Except collector for some reason

[subtle root]

after doing the climb while getting the voidheart, is the knight that leaves with the pale king supposed to be you? Is it like a flashback?

[pure inlet]

Void

[loud crater]

That's not The Knight, thats The Hollow Knight. As in the final boss THK.

[pure inlet]

Messes with magic sensory abilities including godtuner

Not in a specific enough way to disrupt the attunement process

But that’s why their statues are cracked

[stoic yarrow]

me and my friend were arguing which ending was the canon ending, i thought it was the p5 ending because you also see the shade lord in the last cutscene of the silksong true ending, but he was like: noooo because in the p5 ending cutscene u see the start of the fight between thk and hornet, and thk isnt infected anymore so hes the pure vessel again, so hornet would lose. which doesnt make sense because the pure vessel never existed, it was a version of thk where he never got like attached to his father, the pale king, because u can see in the pop cutscene that it was thk as a child that looked at the pale king with like feelings in the movements idk how to say it, and the pure vessel is grown up. Also, it is stated in the traitor lord hunters notes (i think its that one) that the infection makes you stronger, so thk would be weakened? and thk, which is infected so stronger than his non-infected version, is in my opinion an easier boss than hornet sentinel, so i guess thats also an argument but harder and easier bosses is more subjective, well idk if anyone can answer this or if anyone will even read this, but uhh help

[loud crater]

All endings are canon according to Team Cherry.

[stoic yarrow]

ye but i mean the one that ACTUALLY happened in the universe, if there even is one like that, cus sealed siblings cant be canon cus hornet dies

or at least gets sealed

[loud crater]

They all do. Not all leads to Silksong tho.

They're all canon.

[stoic yarrow]

alr ig

[stoic yarrow]

what i meant is like which one leads to silksong ye

[loud crater]

They all could, except maybe Sealed Siblings.

[stoic yarrow]

ig ye

ty

[loud crater]

Only ETV or DNM could lead to ||SotV tho.||

[stoic yarrow]

ye

[restive oracle]

why if the pale kings death why when you visit the throne room in the palace again its no longer there

[sweet shell]

wdym

u mean that he disappears when u renter the room or smth?

[restive oracle]

ye

[sweet shell]

oh idk ngl

[restive oracle]

does it means hes somehow alive?

[sweet shell]

i don't think so

all i know is that u can sit on his throne now tho

[signal marlin]

no hes dead

[sweet shell]

or the servants took his body away maybe

[restive oracle]

how they gonna avoid saws?

[sweet shell]

idrk

they live with them every day tho

so they probably have experience with saws

[restive oracle]

or maybe the void next room swalled him up

[loud crater]

It wouldn't be able to touch him. He glows.

[hot lily]

game design feature, it's to conserve resources

in fact if you wait long enough you can see it happen, it's no different than other corpses

[fading crane]

Really? Approximately how long do we have to wait?

[hot lily]

i think it's 30 minutes to an hour but don't quote me

[fading crane]

Thank you!

[orchid dirge]

did these shells belong to crustaceans in the blue lake?

[silk folio]

No. Weve only seen bugs in this world. Maybe its a fat grub what molted while digging in the ground

[lilac spire]

mayb its from that guy in pharloo mbay

the cut area of silksong

after all the guys anatomy is canon

a tasxidermied version of him can be found in memorium

he looks like a crustacean

[scarlet robin]

Does anyone want to know the essence to geo conversion rate?

[dry grove]

But not every other void idol statue?

[stable raptor]

what size yall think HK characters are

personally id say human sized

[indigo venture]

Unkown

[near sequoia]

small

[stable raptor]

just say

[indigo venture]

Say what

[stable raptor]

what do you think

[near sequoia]

They be bugs who wield nails n pins n needles n stuff

[indigo venture]

I dunno'

Size of a Universe

[stable raptor]

id say that needle and pins thing is because the characters are bugs, giving them "swords" or "spears" wont feel okay

[near sequoia]

Yea cuz they're small

That's kinda the joke

[stable raptor]

eh

atleast u didnt say because mushrooms lookbig for them ingame

[orchid dirge]

what about the coral tower? those look like crustaceans to me

[near sequoia]

Crustaceans seem to be part of the setting yeah

If its creepy or weird in some way it could probably get away with existing in the world

[sudden aurora]

Why doesn't hornet go get the kings brand in kingdom edge

Like she can go get it If she wants

She knows where it is cuz she saves us

[hot lily]

because it's not something she feels that she should do

[sudden aurora]

But it would be funny

[pure inlet]

Mechanically she probably could do it

She has a strong enough shell

Anyone else it would just burn and kill

But it’s not her mantle to take

TK branding itself means that it accepts the sins of its father as its own to deal with

Like serr said Hornet didn’t think it was her choice to make

[prisma zenith]

and i mean

what is hornet going to do in the abyss

look at the 5 billion brothers corpse?

[fast stag]

Lore

[sly bridge]

Hellooo

[loud crater]

Siblings'*

[prisma zenith]

yeah whatever

[silk folio]

YOU look like crustaceans to me

[sudden aurora]

No I dont

[restive oracle]

guys if the pale king can fore see the future does it mean it could had foreseen the vessel (us) killing the radiance inside the dream world and that was his plan all the time

[indigo venture]

Maybe, Most Probably Not

[prisma zenith]

he could've

but i doubt

if we consider his dream dialogue

and that he wouldn't have needed to die... i guess

[restive oracle]

and also why is a black wyrm mentioned by ogrim or something does it mean another wyrm or just something

[indigo venture]

Probably not

It likely Isn't a Wyrm

It may be the name of the place the battle took place in, Or a Strategy, Or something along those lines

[dense sonnet]

No

PK was sure that the Vessel project would work, while he had foresight he wasn’t literally omniscient

And in fact the whole point is that his foresight ended up being useless in the end, “what good to foresee a demise unavoidable”

Also he and his kingdom are dead so if that was his plan all along what exactly was the point, he lost

The goal wasn’t to kill Radiance

Not to mention that would undermine his character and the themes of the game

[hot lily]

no, it was not his plan; THK was the plan

"Through its sacrifice, Hallownest lasts eternal"

[fading crane]

This is where I wonder:
Couldn't PK have asked other HB for help in killing Rad or is a impossible idea? Why?

[indigo venture]

Tf were they meant to do

WL was already Helping. Unn was sleeping

And that's basically it

[fading crane]

I don't know, something like PK asking Unn for help to come up with a plan to kill Rad or something

[indigo venture]

She was nappin'

[fading crane]

XD

[fading crane]

Oh, one more thing, could the PK have unified the void? Why?

[indigo venture]

No. Only a Void Being has shown the capability to do so

[fading crane]

Why only a void being?

[indigo venture]

Unifying Void's requirements, as from what we've seen, are pretty specific
TK needed to come to terms with it's creation and conception, becoming a full being and embracing it's own nature. TK acepting what it was + Kingsoul giving birth to Voidheart

[rugged comet]

Charm: Void Heart

An emptiness that was hidden within, now unconstrained. Unifies the void under the bearer's will.

This charm is a part of its bearer and can not be unequipped.

@megathekindly used /charms category: L-W charm: Void Heart

[indigo venture]

It goes without saying Kingsoul and Voidheart are an analogy to Vessels

[dense sonnet]

Killing Rad is kind of impossible without Void, she is a living idea conventional methods aren’t gonna work

[indigo venture]

I mean probably

It's pretty implied only Unified Void can do the trick

[fading crane]

"Born of God and Void"

[fading crane]

I understand

[tough nymph]

how i can get voive chat role

[keen token]

Following this, this means that the void can infiltrate minds. Much as this becomes apparent in SS.

[indigo venture]

I mean it only does it when TK is commanding it

[keen token]

technically it can operate without the knight

[indigo venture]

Well yes but not unified

[keen token]

but i simply said that the void can infiltrate minds

unified or not, it can penetrate the minds of bugs

like in silksong where enemies become ‘haunted’

[subtle axle]

question

is the delicate flower stronger then the void of god (forgot his name) since the flower can repel the void easily

[opaque plume]

Well th3 delicate flower has a special power to repel void or at least absorb void, that's why anything made of void can not touch it, but I guess the knight touched it because he was in his shell

[subtle axle]

the knight probably didn’t die by it cuz he wasn’t fully void which i mean the shell but i wonder what would happen if you somehow give it to the fully void one (when you die) or walk through him with the delicate flower

[hard willow]

hello

btw can the knight

change vessels?

[sweet shell]

the knight is a vessel

[loud crater]

Probably not.

[sweet shell]

a vessel is a type of "animal" u could call it

like a species

[hard willow]

can the shade change vessels

[keen token]

the vessel is an offspring made by the pale king and the white lady

[loud crater]

Probably not.

[keen token]

the shade cannot willingly swap vessels as it is their own

once a vessel dies, it will linger as a shade

which begs the question

how does the pale king extract and ‘use’ the void?

[split compass]

You can see big barrels in PK’s workshop - probably full of Void

Then he sculpts it in a mould

[loud crater]

He would have went down to the Void lake while it was still pacified and just scoop it up in barrels.

[split compass]

Void drilling

[opaque plume]

Void drilling is that even a thing, make more sense to scope up liquid void

But again whatever isn't void get swatted by the void tendrils, but I guess the pale king used the light house to get liquid from the void lake

[loud crater]

Its like Oil drilling.

[split compass]

But for Void

but no, I don’t think there’s a Void drilling platform or Void derrick down there, cool as that would be

[split compass]

we don’t know the exact method, it could just be guys scooping

[fading crane]

Radiance is he or she?

[ebon patio]

♀️

[fading crane]

Is it implied or stated somewhere?

[sudden aurora]

Ye

[keen token]

What are the advantages of the void other than its abundance and resilience?

[fading crane]

Where?

[sudden aurora]

I think the godseekers talk about it

I could be wrong though

[fading crane]

Animate robots

And kill gods

[rugged comet]

Godseeker - Cutscene - Defeating AbsRad in Hall of Gods

Woe! Thou Speck! To achieve victory, even if only against mere imprint of that most brilliant deity. Thine battles proves strength enough to impress.
But couldst thou ever hope to overcome that mighty God tuned at the core of dream and mind, when met in perfect state, at peak of all others? We think not!

@nostor_10. used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Cutscene dialogue: Defeating AbsRad in Hall of Gods

[ebon patio]

well there are no pronoun specifications here

i think team cherry mustve said it

[near sequoia]

It comes from translations and a dev note from early in development

[hot lily]

strictly speaking, unknown

[tawny crag]

Radiance is a she

[subtle axle]

question

what is the true name of the knight big brother

is its hollow knight

or

is it the pure vessel

what is his actual name or which is his actual name

[fading crane]

Is it mentioned anywhere?

[fading crane]

Examples of a dev notes?

[near sequoia]

The moth tribe were (perhaps) descended from Radiance. However, the King convinced them somehow to seal Radiance away. I guess so he could rule Hallownest with his singular vision, as a monarch/god with no other gods. The moths sealed Radiance away by forgetting about her. Hallownest was born and flourished. However, the memory of Radiance lingered (eg the statue at hallownest's crown) and soon she began to reappear in dreams and starting exerting influence. The King and the bugs of hallownest resisted this memory/power and it started to manifest as the infection. Thus the first attempt to seal Radiance failed, and the King had to try another method - the Vessel.
This is the dev note in question

Pretty outdated as PK allowed other gods to exist in the region and didn't really convince the moth tribe to seal away Radiance in the current version of the story

But it shows that they thought of Radiance as a she for what its worth

[sudden aurora]

Lifeblood jelly

[buoyant chasm]

Void jelly cause blue and orange black

[ivory zenith]

what was the story of The Knight coming to Hallownest

he heard THK's scream so he knew it's time to do something?

[near sequoia]

Basically

Well the scream is probably magical in a way and void minds are probably connected on some level so its not like it literally heard it

[scenic surge]

where does this come from

never heard of this

[near sequoia]

Its a cut dev note I just grabbed it from the wiki I'm not sure where they found it exactly but its leftover in the files

[scenic surge]

well damn it's really outdated

seems like at the time he wasn't going to be with the white lady

or tolerate unn

given it states with no other gods in general

[ivory zenith]

it's Radiance's scream(?)

[scenic surge]

did the pale king not even have a wife back then

[fading crane]

Thank you

[sudden aurora]

How tf does salubra just exist in crossroads

[loud crater]

That's were she lives?

[sudden aurora]

She's like right next to a ton of infected dudes

Is she immune to the infection?

[loud crater]

Proximity to infection does not make you infected.

[sudden aurora]

Hmm

[near sequoia]

she also doesn't leave her home

[loud crater]

The Infection is a dream born "plague"

[near sequoia]

she thinks everyone is still alive

[sudden aurora]

So she doesn't sleep

[loud crater]

If she does she doesnt let the Radiance into her mind.

[sudden aurora]

Hmmnnn

Funne

[near sequoia]

Dreams in HK kinda encompass general mind activity too so you don't need to sleep to get infected

She's still vulnerable to the infection it just hasn't happened yet

[sudden aurora]

Oh

Interesting

[ocean mural]

is the knight neil armstong?

https://medal.tv/games/hollow-knight/clips/mGqNcWA5azfwVwwfY?invite=cr-MSwzNmwsNjMwMDA0OTc2

if he is able to destroy the radience

[green pilot]

Are we powerscaling Niel Armstrong to the radiance 😭

[hot lily]

not for the channel

[candid basin]

for the channel

[loud crater]

For the Republic!

[fading crane]

Why do dream beings release their souls?

[loud crater]

Wdym?

[fading crane]

The Radiance, No Eyes, Galien... They are all dreamlike beings and release their souls when struck.

[loud crater]

They give off Soul, not releasing their soul.

[fading crane]

?

[loud crater]

But if I had to wager a guess, Soul and Essence, while not linked, sorta gravitate to one another. If Soul is present, Essence likely will follow and vice versa. Of course this isnt always the case, but for Essence Spirts/Essence beings it likely is.

[loud crater]

The more correct term is giving off Soul.

[fading crane]

Sorry!
Translation bug

[fading crane]

So, if there is a soul, there is essence, and vice versa?

[loud crater]

Sometimes, yes.

[fading crane]

Are there any cases where this does not apply?

[hot lily]

soul totems

[lucid jay]

||||the pale king was a wyrm looking for a place to rule im pretty sure. so when he reached hallownest, a place full of bugs, he decided to become a ruler. so he shed his big worm skin, and became the pale king, and his skin is where you get kings brand in the kingdom's edge. so the radiance, the previous ruler of hallownest got forgotten, and the bugs built a cool civilization which is what you see in the main game because the pale king offered intelligence for their loyalty which most bugs accepted and forgot the radiacne. so then the radiance get angry so then she enter the dream of many bugs and create the infection which deleted their minds and made them very aggressive. so the pale king had a bunch of babies (like 2k) with the white lady and tried to make a vessel worthy of conatining the infection. So after THE hollow knight climed out of the abyss, they chose him. so they sealed him with 3 dreamers protecting him. and one of them only agreed to do it if she had a baby with the pale king which turned out to be hornet. but i guess nothing is perfect, because the radiance found a crack in the pure vessel (at the time) which let her overtake him with infection making him become the hollow knight. but then the knight (you) climb out and explore the outside world. then, you eventually stumble back into hallownest, and then you either spend your whole save file just replacing hte hollow knight, you kill the radiance whihc removes the infection, or you do some random stuff in godhome that i dont know how to explain. hope this helps||||

[loud crater]

A lot. Soul permeates the air and Whispering Roots. Also Soul can just exist in more condensed forms in jars.

[fading crane]

Oh, that's right

[fading crane]

Right, right

[hot lily]

||Radiance was not the previous ruler of Hallownest because the kingdom didn't exist until PK founded it||

[lucid jay]

oh my bad

me dum dum

[hot lily]

also not all bugs were given higher thought, some already had it

[lucid jay]

like the mantis

or some shi

[fading crane]

Now that I think about it, what is the reason for the design of the soul totems?

Do they want to reflect something?

[loud crater]

Its Ancient Civilization stuff I believe so I think they're made to look kinda like them.

[prisma zenith]

yes

and well the moths

since radiance created them

[loud crater]

And Bees and likely Mosskin.

[prisma zenith]

idk about bees

but like

queen garden and greenpath was that slug thing

i forgot the name

Unn yeah

[loud crater]

Put some respect on Unn's name.

[prisma zenith]

irrelevant character

how am i going to remember the name

[loud crater]

They built a civilization and didn't join Hallownest. They likely had minds before PK.

[loud crater]

https://tenor.com/view/pure-vessel-hollow-knight-gif-8691405304708562462

[prisma zenith]

mm

[fading crane]

What would have happened if Unn hadn't weakened?

[fading crane]

How?

And yes, the soul totems are AC creations

[loud crater]

Mosskin mightve not been infected.

[loud crater]

Who else would the look like?

[fading crane]

Well, they make sense.

[prisma zenith]

im stupid

true

if unn wasn't a bum

[ivory trout]

Do the vessels wear cloaks, have wings, or does their capes grow from their own bodies?

[split compass]

they are born with them, so they are part of a vessel's body, and may be something like vestigial wings

the monarch wings cause the cloak to briefly become wings when jumping, that might be what they'd look like if they were functional

[ivory trout]

But how can it be part of their bodies if the White Lady and Pale King don't have anything that suggests it?

[split compass]

the pale king does have a similar kind of cloak in fact

[ivory trout]

This actually looks like clothing, i mean, ||Hornet also wear something similar in Red Memory||

Pure Vessel too

[split compass]

maybe, though apparently the Great Knights wore white as well, the white clothing of both may be in tribute to the PK
in any case, the pale beings are both gods, so normal genetic traits may not apply to their offspring

[ivory trout]

Even Hornet wasn't born with her cloak; she made it herself. Why are the Vessels different?

[split compass]

hornet may take after her mother more in that regards (certainly in the horns area)

[ivory trout]

But how would you prove that this is part of the body and not clothing? It looks like a robe a king would wear.

I forgot what else I was going to say lol

[ivory trout]

Genetically she is still closely related to the vessels, they share the same father.

[split compass]

well i don't know that the pale king's cloak is part of his body - I just think it resembles the cloaks of the vessels (similar banding style) which are as far as we can tell

unless they are born with clothes, which I guess could also be a godly thing happening

but I like the idea of them being vestigial wings, draped across their little buggy shoulders

there's no mention of the Pale Wyrm being winged, but we don't know a lot about it, maybe it had wings in an earlier part of its life cycle and so its offspring do as well

[ivory trout]

Maybe

[split compass]

irl bugs are born with soft flexible wings until they are pumped full of blood and become flight capable, since vessels are essentially dead biologically, i imagine their wings are just kind of permanently draped, limp and lifeless, across their body

[ivory trout]

But Silksong has entire sections dedicated to clothing, I don't think that's by chance. Of course, after Silksong some things from HK don't match up anymore, but I think it's just clothes or rags.

[split compass]

some bugs certainly do wear clothing, and so it must be made - Weavers were naturally interested in weaving, and wore gowns and cloaks

[ivory trout]

My theory is that since an ancient civilization existed in the abyss, the vessels probably only reused their clothing. In official artworks, their capes don't look very, you know, new and clean.

[split compass]

I do think the vessels stealing the clothes of the ancients is a very fun idea

[ivory trout]

:D

[left flax]

who is hornet

oh my goodness this is the wrong channel

[trail hemlock]

Depends, but yea better in #sk-lore

[hot lily]

vessel cloaks are biological yet vestigial

it would make no sense for them to be tailor made for every vessel, given that all except 1 were rejected

[trail hemlock]

I heard q theory that the cloaks are made out of leafes or something

[ivory trout]

I've seen that theory before, and just no

[trail hemlock]

Didnt gave that much thought to it

[ivory trout]

There's no way to know, we have no knowledge of how large the ancient civilization of the abyss was.

[hot lily]

we do know, the cloaks are part of the vessels since birth as shown by the birthplace cutscene

[ivory trout]

But the cutscene doesn't show the exact moment the Knight hatches from the egg. In the game itself, we have to go through a small room to reach it.

What I mean is that they wasn't shown leaving the egg with the cloak.

[trail hemlock]

Maybe the cloak like their...
Shit cant think of words

Like, skin, from when they were a maggot

Or something

[ivory trout]

Knight 1

Hornet 0

[split compass]

birthing caul

and it's fibrous matter because they're part plant~!

[trail hemlock]

Maybe...

[ivory trout]

Vegans can eat vessels, it's allowed

[trail hemlock]

HAH!
Good one mate

[signal marlin]

saying "theres no way to know" is way too strong - lack of definitive confirmation doesnt make something unknowable

[solid wren]

I think every time we die another knight comes from another Kingdom and frees the previous knight's soul and takes it geo and that is why there are so many vessels in abbyss and abbyss is a place like junk pit where failed knights where born and defeated knights where thrown

[trail hemlock]

Yeaa
No

Or whatever keeps her laughing
We know that she realy doesnt know what is going on outside

So the new question
What the fuck is this up with Emilitia

[solid wren]

Has anybody seen my theory I know it is not real but it is interesting

[trail hemlock]

I saw it, i commented
Its just as bad as Pale king being the knight theory

By Matpad

[ivory trout]

So how large do you think the ancient civilization of the abyss was?

[split compass]

oh, pretty large

[ivory trout]

And I didn't say that btw

[ivory trout]

I think so too

[split compass]

if they had holdings in both Hallownest and Pharloom, they could be anywhere, really

anywhere the Abyss reached

[ivory trout]

I don't think that same civilization existed in both... Ig

Idk

I mean, the Pharloom abyss seems much more untouched by this civilization, only having been influenced by the Weavers.

[split compass]

Hallownest did have way more stuff built there
but the area in Pharloom had arcane eggs and their tablets revealed a love of the Void, they were definitely all the same guys

pharloom might have represented a less important region or something

[ivory trout]

I think so, in that case maybe they were just more focused on the Hallownest abyss.

[ivory trout]

Yea

[signal marlin]

yeah its not literally what you said, its just the implication of it as a response to a inferential argument

[ivory trout]

That was just to simplify things, but there's still no way to really know. I believe it was a large civilization, but nothing would prevent it from having been small as well.

[trail hemlock]

Just dont dream-Zoat

Nor cornifer

[zealous wing]

Conifer seems to have only recently come to hallownest, probably not long enough to be infected, we see it does take time.

[royal summit]

It does