hk-lore

[dense sonnet]

No

That’s wrong

[tough jetty]

You get what i mean

it had to have a mind to tarnish

aka it wasn't hollow

[dense sonnet]

Mind is irrelevant what are you talking about

It was hollow we’re talking about purity those mean different things

[tough jetty]

Really?

[loud crater]

"The gold cannot rust so if it rusts you know it was not gold in the first place"-Me
-# I'm basically a philosopher

[tough jetty]

Im dumb

[hard willow]

exactly supposed ability to not feel emotion, it can just hasnt, it can be not there hidden away, this can happen to humans

[dense sonnet]

Strength in this context is purity

[signal marlin]

[dense sonnet]

“Its supposed strength was ill judged” = “we thought it was pure but it wasn’t”

Like that’s literally what she says

It’s not that deep

[hard willow]

i agree, it can feel emotion, but it can also not feel emotion

like a human

that is how it works

[dense sonnet]

I don’t know what you’re talking about this emotion stuff is irrelevant

[tough jetty]

If i was immortal and i died i was never immortal in the first place

[hard willow]

i do lol

[loud crater]

"The light is on but the light is also off"

[dense sonnet]

WL is talking about purity which is the ability to contain Radiance indefinitely

[tough jetty]

Schrodinger's Vessel

[hard willow]

the light can turn on and off

[dense sonnet]

That is the essential quality being referred to as strength the specifics do not matter

[hard willow]

it is harder to turn off than on

[dense sonnet]

It doesn’t matter what purity entails whether it’s a lack of emotion or whatever

Whatever it is THK NEVER HAD IT

That’s literally what she says

[hard willow]

it did

[tough jetty]

no

[dense sonnet]

Read

[tough jetty]

you are so ignorant and stubborn

[hard willow]

i have

[tough jetty]

admit you're wrong

[loud crater]

This shit is confusing.

[tough jetty]

come on

[dense sonnet]

“Its supposed strength was ill-judged”

[hard willow]

true

[dense sonnet]

It’s not confusing people make it confusing

[loud crater]

Sam, you're speaking Shrumal.

[dense sonnet]

This dialogue is explicit

[signal marlin]

idk abt ts kirb

[hard willow]

yeah

[signal marlin]

[hard willow]

it can feel emotion

[tough jetty]

The only problem here is ignorance

[hard willow]

it says that

[near sequoia]

as soon as the game got a reputation for vague and confusing lore it was over for reading comprehension bro

[hard willow]

I agree

[tough jetty]

that means it was never hollow/pure

[loud crater]

[dense sonnet]

It’s not my problem that this community has never had great comprehension skills

[signal marlin]

im saying i think the way youre framing/interpreting it is too strong

[loud crater]

Everyone else is the problem, smh.

[near sequoia]

That's just what she says man wym too strong

[dense sonnet]

I mean no the dialogue is right there anyone who is literate will be able to tell you what it means

[hard willow]

People can lose emotions

[dense sonnet]

It’s not open to interpretation

[tough jetty]

Atp the problem is no longer about the vessel's minds that they always had it's about the mind of the ignorant

[near sequoia]

WL isn't talking about its emotions or wtv

[hard willow]

wdym strong

[loud crater]

Yeah via like lobotomy or some shit I dont know.

[near sequoia]

But I do like the idea that HK is a metaphor for shutting out emotions as a result of toxic masculinity

[tough jetty]

people are born with brains

[near sequoia]

evilponder

[hard willow]

people can draw multiple meaning from one sentence but multiple make the story

[hard willow]

yes, some can be born without emotion fr

[tough jetty]

people can be as annoying as uyou?

[dense sonnet]

No I’m sorry you can’t just say it’s open ended and use that as an excuse to interpret explicit dialogue however you want

[near sequoia]

woah lets not devolve into ad hominems

[hard willow]

i am asking for more evidence

[near sequoia]

We're better than this cmon guys

[dense sonnet]

fym more evidence it’s not going to get better than this

[near sequoia]

You don't need evidence when its what the text says

[loud crater]

I don't think you've done any of the sort until right now.

[tough jetty]

1 + 1 might equal 2 but i don't know i don't think so, so it still has to be proven for me to beleive it
-SamSam probably

[near sequoia]

Do you want us to crack open a dictionary or something

[hard willow]

i have

[loud crater]

Sure.

[tough jetty]

name one sentence from the wanderer's journal

[dense sonnet]

Purity discussions in the big 26

[tough jetty]

name one sentence from the riddle tablet

[dense sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/who-is-this-gif-4011795153273257473

[loud crater]

:DarkKnightMoment:

[near sequoia]

bro are we gatekeeping

[hard willow]

you want me to memorize the wanderers journal?

i have no hit POP

[dense sonnet]

What has this channel devolved into

[loud crater]

Don't care.

[near sequoia]

Name a sentence from the 3 day vessel purity argument in mosscord or you ain't a real lorehead

[hard willow]

but dont meorize that stuff

[near sequoia]

Yeah idk what grub is on about

[tough jetty]

on about
on

[hard willow]

exactly, you dont have to memorize word for word, but can formulate ideas based off the words to build upon

[tough jetty]

i see sounds

i hear colors

now hk lore finally makes sense

[hard willow]

SO why was the POP, ending important?

[near sequoia]

Its not

[loud crater]

It was important to PK for some reason

[dense sonnet]

It’s not important as far as the narrative is concerned

[tough jetty]

it was proof that THK was impute

[dense sonnet]

No bruh

[loud crater]

Impute.

[hard willow]

because thats the moment he became unpure

he felt emotion

[near sequoia]

Optional cutscene that characterizes PK who cares

[dense sonnet]

No we don’t know that

[loud crater]

No. Its from PK's perspective. Not THK's.

[tough jetty]

qweRTyuiop

called a typo

[dense sonnet]

But even if it is the what the idea instilled the idea instilled was literally doesn’t matter

[hard willow]

are you okay?

[dense sonnet]

The cutscene is characterization for PK

[near sequoia]

you feeling okay?

[dense sonnet]

It tells us nothing about THK’s character

[tough jetty]

oh really

[loud crater]

Are you

[near sequoia]

you seem a bit confused, you might need to lay down

[sage bronze]

I'm worried about you man

[loud crater]

Are you feeling well?

[tough jetty]

i interpreted it as that it was proof that THK was impure and the kingdom was cooked, mb

[hard willow]

no

[dense sonnet]

This is what happens when lore gets to you

[loud crater]

Drops monocle in despair

[hard willow]

i read it as, thats the moment he felt emotion

it appeared then

[near sequoia]

gonna be talking about vessel purity and gender to my grandkids when the dementia hits 💔

[rapid pollen]

Whenever u open this channel u always have no idea what the conversation is about

[tough jetty]

ari gibson drew this one pixel this one color, my perception of life has changed

[hard willow]

naw they dont have a gender

[tough jetty]

true

first true thing you've said today

[dense sonnet]

You’re not ready for that conversation

[hard willow]

HAS THK ALWAYS BEEN PURE?

[loud crater]

They looked at each other. As far as we know PK accidently just killed a retainer with a soul sneeze and now their both sharing an "oh shit" look.

[tough jetty]

IT NEVER WAS

[near sequoia]

I think HK is about becoming a man, symbolized by a "genderless" vessel "becoming a man" upon grabbing the King's Brand

[tough jetty]

AND IT NEVER WILL BE!

[near sequoia]

But there are girl vessels as well

[tough jetty]

who tf is greg

[hard willow]

i just call it a he tbh, dont know why

[tough jetty]

and why is he canon

[dense sonnet]

There’s no limit to the larp

[near sequoia]

you were trying to gatekeep without knowing graig? 💔

[loud crater]

All of the PK's children share one single gender and Hornet has had it her entire life.

[near sequoia]

Guys buy my crypto

[hard willow]

@warm turret

solve this

[tough jetty]

@warm turret

[loud crater]

Insert a bitcoin into your eye socket.

[hard willow]

dillemna

[near sequoia]

[tough jetty]

dillemna

[sage bronze]

he's got stuff to do don't ping him for nothing

[dense sonnet]

Blud out here talkin bout sum “name one sentence from WJ” but doesn’t know Greg I’m crine gng 🥀 💀 💔

[near sequoia]

This how the corpse of king minos fight works

[tough jetty]

that part was genuinely ragebait

[loud crater]

JUDGEMENT. Sick ass drop kick

[tough jetty]

recite one interview from team cherry

[near sequoia]

no I mean the minos that's actually fun to fight

[tough jetty]

what second did hk come out

[dense sonnet]

TC are bad writers so I don’t care about what they have to say

[hard willow]

australia

hornet

[loud crater]

Yeah, the one I referred to.

[hard willow]

hollow knight

[tough jetty]

(chronologically from 14,000,000,000,000 bc)

[loud crater]

9.28×10^192388

[near sequoia]

Why did they write that TK was pure in a cut dream nail dialogue

Were they always winging it

[loud crater]

Probably.

[hard willow]

mostly

[near sequoia]

lightning in a bottle 🥀

[hard willow]

they where

monarching it

I dreamnailed chat fr

[tough jetty]

Tk ain't pure

that's in the full game

[hard willow]

Does hornet feel pain

like normal bugs

[tough jetty]

i assume so

[loud crater]

Yes.

[hard willow]

unlike the monster TK

[tough jetty]

Start of silksong implies that

[loud crater]

Several times in Silksong she screams in pain.

[tough jetty]

Hornet is not like the vessels

(not including genetically)

[hard willow]

i know that, i was just curious with gods and all

[sage bronze]

the knight feels pain

[tough jetty]

no

iirc

eh wait maybe

[sage bronze]

it does

[loud crater]

||Mainly while getting the Witch Crest during Yarnaby's operation||

[tough jetty]

yeah

[hard willow]

i was curious if she felt it, just dulled

[tough jetty]

Tk has a will and can probably have emotions too

[sage bronze]

Senses the pain of its bearer and lashes out at the world around them.
thorns of agony

[tough jetty]

oh thanks

btw how do yall do that

the little dialogue references

[sage bronze]

> blah blah

[tough jetty]

oh cool

[hard willow]

blah blah

[tough jetty]

blah blah

[sage bronze]

it needs a space

[tough jetty]

=
> blah blah

[hard willow]

bla bla

[tough jetty]

Yeah so all of the vessels are impure, especially TK

[dense sonnet]

Nobody really cares about Hornet’s pain because she’s a bad person and deserves it

[tough jetty]

hornet shaw adino silksong good?

[sage bronze]

the big point of hk is that perpetuity was impossible having pure vessels around would kind of go against that

[dense sonnet]

I mean they’re probably all impure but they’d all be equally impure

[hard willow]

if only there was a judge to decide that

[tough jetty]

i mean TK has the most evidence

[tough jetty]

Lastly.....

[hard willow]

an ||explody|| judge

[dense sonnet]

WL dialogue is all that’s really needed

[tough jetty]

TK has it's stuff too

[dense sonnet]

Most of the shit people normally point to as evidence of impurity isn’t actually because the requirements for that aren’t exactly defined

Technically TK could be considered pure if purity was arbitrary

[tough jetty]

I think purity is whatever the pale king said in the abyss

[dense sonnet]

Well that’s not literal either

[tough jetty]

then what does it mean

[dense sonnet]

Being able to contain Radiance indefinitely

[tough jetty]

well yeah

[loud crater]

PK was being a cryptic fuck.

[fading crane]

Do you think the Grubberflys are higher beings?

[tough jetty]

i'm talking about the qualifications

[dense sonnet]

No

[tough jetty]

Can confirm,no

i am grub and all grub there ever is grub

[fading crane]

Hahaha
Why?

[hard willow]

absolutely

[fading crane]

Ok, why?

[tough jetty]

Butterfly life cycle

(effectively)

[loud crater]

Higher being as in elevation, yes.

[hard willow]

they are baby radiances

[dense sonnet]

There aren’t any, we can make assumptions based on PK’s dialogue and what is known about Rad but nothing concrete

[hard willow]

they grow up into their own radiances

[tough jetty]

no

just no.....

[dense sonnet]

Me when I make shit up

[fading crane]

So they have the potential to being HB?

[tough jetty]

Deity, no
Higher, yes

[dense sonnet]

We don’t know anything about Grubberflies

[dense sonnet]

???

[tough jetty]

Higher as in evolved

[loud crater]

No. They'll be higher than everyone else. But not Higher than everyone else.

[fading crane]

Oh, ok

[hard willow]

nah team cherry said that word for word

[hard willow]

ahh on drugs

[dense sonnet]

Who are team cherry

[hard willow]

oh yeah team apple

[loud crater]

That's not... that's not what I meant.

[tough jetty]

*rolls the credits*

[dense sonnet]

You can get high on gulka venom canonically

[loud crater]

Drunk*

Natural alcohol.

[rugged comet]

Charm: Grubberfly's Elegy

Contains the gratitude of grubs who will move to the next stage of their lives. Imbues weapons with a holy strength.

When the bearer is at full health, they will fire beams of white-hot energy from their nail.

@nostor_10. used /charms category: B-K charm: Grubberfly's Elegy

[tough jetty]

that's why grubfather is like that

100% canon

[fading crane]

Holy strength
Yeah, they have potential

[tough jetty]

sherma is holy

[dense sonnet]

Hunter doesn’t tell us the actual effects of the venom but alcohol already exists in universe

[tough jetty]

holy = liturgical in this universe i think

or anything at all

like a wall

[loud crater]

I'm Silksong ||A clanka can basically use the effects of this charm.||

[tough jetty]

or a gate

[tough jetty]

hello silksong

[loud crater]

Really? Where?

Asking for a friend.

[fading crane]

Wdym?

[loud crater]

||Second Sentinel||

[hard willow]

it is with me when i am chilling with cornifer

[fading crane]

😯

[dense sonnet]

Creige, Vintage Nectar etc.

[loud crater]

Creige?

[tough jetty]

Halfway home guy

[dense sonnet]

Care for a drink, traveller? My nectar's got a kick that'll warm your shell in these sodden climes.

[loud crater]

Also the Necter has always felt more like a Soul infused drink tbh.

[dense sonnet]

It’s a vintage wine he literally keeps it in a cellar

[tough jetty]

Also a soul and soul are different things right

just making sure

[dense sonnet]

Why would it be soul infused juice

[loud crater]

Its like bug juice held in what looks kinda like a bug shell.

[dense sonnet]

It’s the nectar of an aphid yes but it’s also aged and stored like wine and is clearly meant to be analogous to it
Nectar in general is used as a term for this sort of beverage which is noted to have a “kick” and is clearly meant to resemble alcohol

High quality nectar of a long-lived aphid, kept in storage over many lifetimes to allow a complex maturation.

Soul infused juice doesn’t really make sense or explain this

[loud crater]

I dunno, just never really felt like it to me I guess.

[dense sonnet]

How

[loud crater]

I just said I don't know.

Just never felt like alcohol to me.

[dense sonnet]

It’s literally a bar the dude has a wine cellar and it’s described identically to a vintage wine

[loud crater]

[tough jetty]

#sk-lore

[slate wharf]

whys every message a spoiler

[hard willow]

lore

[hard willow]

also rezero season 4 peak

[hard willow]

lore usually has spoilers

[loud crater]

Its the Lore Channel. The place where we discuss the Lore of the game and its charecters.

[lofty thunder]

Why did hornets face appear on the gate of black egg temple in the second ending

[tough jetty]

she was sealed

[hard willow]

she was the dreamer

[ornate summit]

where do i find the bug alcohol???

[tough jetty]

sorry i drank it

[ornate summit]

shoot

[fading crane]

._.

[tough jetty]

it's a serious question

[fading crane]

Oh, I understand

[tough jetty]

In silksong they talk about hornet's soul and also that silk is like soul (which she can control)

[fading crane]

You mean soul (spiritual) and SOUL (a white thing)

Right?

[tough jetty]

yes

yes

a soul and soul

[ornate summit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1h50Scdr5s @tough jetty is this what absrad is like?

[tough jetty]

NO

that's a mod

that was ported into silksong

[ornate summit]

oh thank fuck

[tough jetty]

the thumbnail is the thumbnail

[ornate summit]

ima sub to your channel

[tough jetty]

tysm

working on more masochism but also not

i just post the challenges i willingly do for myself, not any i think are view-worthy

[ornate summit]

i think that is awesome

[tough jetty]

if i'm not inclined to do a challenge then i won't post a challenge

that simple

rn im tryna do silksong steel soul because i procrastinated it

gn

[ornate summit]

gn...

[hard willow]

gn

[sudden aurora]

Why do the big jellies explode

[pure inlet]

Early attempt to contain infection

Volatile gas and evil thoughts inside them

[obtuse terrace]

why does the infection even explode

[trail hemlock]

To spread itself

[wind osprey]

In grooze mother, there was a lore

There wad a statue of pale king, aaannnd the um queeen and another one is broken.

So we already were missing the thibg maybe

[idle geyser]

I was once told by someone that TK is truly hollow because of this dialogue from the radiance. I thought about it just now and I looked it up, turns out it's a cut dialogue. Do we consider cut dialogue to be somewhat canon though?

if not, is there any other evidence that supports the "TK is truly hollow" theory

I already know the ones that push against it

[idle geyser]

I lean towards TK not being pure, but I want to hear it regardless

[loud crater]

No, cut dialogue isnt canon.

[idle geyser]

oh, well

[humble current]

Cut content isn't considered canon :P

[idle geyser]

yeah I was just told that y'hear

[humble current]

I see

[scenic surge]

I'll say this much yes, back BEFORE it was cut in the games early development the knight was supposed to actually be hollow, but in the actual release of the game

its' not

we got void heart, winged nosk, jinn, hornet and other characters putting it ni your head that you aren't hollow

[loud crater]

Pure*

[scenic surge]

?

[loud crater]

All Vessels are Hollow, none are Pure.

[scenic surge]

where did you get that idea

[loud crater]

Being Hollow is just the state of being filled with Void.

[scenic surge]

that would imply that the kingsmoulds are hollow

something not implied

[scenic surge]

is there some sort of silksong dialogue that states this

[scenic surge]

because I am trying to find some sort of dialogue that suggests this

[tough jetty]

Marriam Webster

there's evidence

[loud crater]

No, its been common consensus for awhile now.

[scenic surge]

that being hollow and being "pure" are two seperate things?

[loud crater]

Kingsmolds are primarily made of Void. Vessels are not.

[loud crater]

Yes.

[vivid ember]

Why does mato hate oro and vice versa I wonder

[loud crater]

Old grudge.

[vivid ember]

Ah

[fading crane]

Guys, I was just noticing that we always call the White Wyrm "Pale King." But is there a moment in the game where they actually call it that?

[indigo venture]

Pale?

Yeah

[loud crater]

Pale King?

[indigo venture]

Im guessing they meant Pale Wyrm

[fading crane]

The people call the Wyrm: Pale Wyrm, Wyrm, White King, etc
But, is called "Pale King" in someone moment?

[solid abyss]

the fountain

[fading crane]

?

[scenic surge]

the seer

the seer calls him the pale king

[fading crane]

Where?

[scenic surge]

god king, pale wyrm, wyrm, white king, king, kinglight, dear wyrm, white wyrm, the king

[fading crane]

Yeah

[loud crater]

Hes also referred to as simply "The King" alot.

[scenic surge]

well yes

[scenic surge]

"Let Hallownest's Pale King relieve you of your burden."

[solid abyss]

the only use of 'pale king' in the game's script is the fountain in ancient basin

[scenic surge]

Pale king just has a nice ring

[fading crane]

I can't found the dialogue

[rugged comet]

Lore Tablet: Ancient Basin - Pale King Wishing Well

A true servant gives all for the Kingdom.
Let Hallownest’s Pale King relieve you of your burden.

@nostor_10. used /lore-tablets area: Ancient Basin name: Pale King Wishing Well

Lore Tablet: Ancient Basin - Pale King Wishing Well

A true servant gives all for the Kingdom.
Let Hallownest’s Pale King relieve you of your burden.

@lexmolten used /lore-tablets area: Ancient Basin name: Pale King Wishing Well

[fading crane]

😯

[loud crater]

[hard willow]

here

yeah

most agreed they could

so the void has to take over the vessel for the shade to take over it?

[loud crater]

Like one person agreed.

[hard willow]

2

[loud crater]

Does that include you?

[hard willow]

no

[hard willow]

it does not

[loud crater]

Yeah I saw the first one.

I'm at school rn so I'm not exactly avaliable.

[ruby jay]

"we take no part in Hallownest's perpetuation" said Vespa, thinking "this is typa shi will happen if we welcome the PK"

https://youtube.com/shorts/ol92aF9XIBw?si=LvcCYdkjki26eN58

[opal fiber]

what IS this

[scenic surge]

that's not true though?

[slender plover]

What's the deal with mask maker

[scenic surge]

he makes masks for the faceless

[opal fiber]

thats actually inda wholesome

[rugged comet]

Hunter's Journal: Void Idol

Description:
Attuned
Rare artifact from a time before Hallownest. Contains a drop of liquid from the Abyss.

Ascended
Rare artifact from a time before Hallownest. Volatile liquid of the Abyss writhes within.

Radiant
Rare artifact from a time before Hallownest, its spires twined in a unified form. Contains a large amount of liquid from the Abyss, perfectly still.

Hunter's notes:
"Inspired or mad, those ancient bugs. They devoted their worship to no lord, or power, or strength, but to the very darkness itself."
- Lemm

@nostor_10. used /journal name: Void Idol

Dream Nail: The Abyss - Shade Beast - "...Void... Power... Without unity..."

...Void... Power... Without unity...

@nostor_10. used /dream-nail area: The Abyss name: Shade Beast - "...Void... Power... Without unity..."

[fading crane]

So Lemm says that the Void is not a power, and Shade Beast says that it is a power.

So who is right?

Oh, wait

[rugged comet]

Lore Tablet: White Palace - White Palace Workshop

VOID, yours is the power opposed.
But yours is potential, eternity potential, force that could deny Time.
VOID, harness shall be placed upon you.

@nostor_10. used /lore-tablets area: White Palace name: White Palace Workshop

[fading crane]

"power opposed"

Both PK and SB agree that Void is a power. But why does Lemm say no?

[plush widget]

Who is this about? Hornet?

[narrow parrot]

Abt u

[plush widget]

Who the fuck is the maiden then

[plush widget]

Ah thanks

[loud crater]

Bretta.

[loud crater]

It had power but it wasn't a power itself.

[fading crane]

Ooh, I like that interpretation

Thank you

[loud crater]

Pale King and Shade Cloak Statue are referring to the potential power it has, not it being innately a power.

[fading crane]

Thanks

[clever ginkgo]

Gimme a terrible version of hk lore doesn’t have to be correct

[loud crater]

Moth Woman makes Moths. Worm comes to die then becomes fork. Fork makes bugs smarter and then builds kingdom. Moths go worship fork because its brighter. Moth angry and starts forcing orange juice into bugs dreams. Fork and shrub have many kids and fill them with crude oil. One gets out of oil pit and becomes pure vessel. Pure Vessel gets Moth into head but pure vessel not pure and Moth leaks. Fork goes into hiding then dies. After awhile game starts.

[hard willow]

grubs grow in these things called radiances

and there is a grown radiance

tricking a short bald guy

into freeing these sealed monsters

and only he can break the seal of these monsters

so he frees them

but the grubs older brother realizes their evil

and eats them all

[clever ginkgo]

This is what im talking about

[hard willow]

to reseal them

yeah

thats it

[loud crater]

A long time ago in a galaxy far away, Palpatine, senator of Naboo, uses the force to make a woman on Tattoine pregnant with a child. This child grows up to win a podrace and earn his freedom from slavery. This child then. Becomes a Jedi under Obi-Wan Kenobi. However, despite the Jedi code he eventually marries Padme, Queen of Naboo, but then is sent off to the outer rim sieges. But he's called back to the core worlds due to the Seprstists attacking Corasaunt, capital of the Republic and location of the Jedi temple, and Kidnap Supreme Chancellor Palpatine. Anakin and Obi-Wan then go to rescue him and Anakin ends up killing Count Dooku. Then after some shenanigans Anakin falls to the Dark Side, learns why the high ground is important then gets all his organic limbs chopped off.

[hard willow]

then he said

https://tenor.com/view/oppa-gangnam-style-bbm-dp-dancing-gif-6154694

[fading crane]

Lumus, the Radiance, created the Moths
Unn, the Greated Mind, created the moss village
Allidus, the Pale King, have the power to rule

[turbid stratus]

Gorb, the Grated Mind, created them all

[hot lily]

no memes

[hard willow]

https://tenor.com/view/kid-stare-blank-face-uh-okay-blink-gif-17510019

[hot lily]

<@&283547423706447872>

[round bough]

the entire chat was off topic and memey for so long and no one thought to ping mods any earlier

I'm not about to warn like 6 different people but istg

[near sequoia]

#hk-lore experiences #sk-lore 's natural state for 5 minutes

[loud crater]

It's very scary for those unaccustomed to it.

Hence the defensive mod ping from Serrara.

[hidden kite]

slowmode

[hard willow]

do you not like fun

you most be invited to a bunch of parties

[split compass]

lore is not for funne

[indigo venture]

What's the funniest piece of lore

[pure inlet]

Dream Nail lays thoughts bare and is truly the most powerful window into a plain mind yet when we dream nail Zote in the colosseum after fighting him he thinks that he won proving that he’s not just a misanthropic liar but a schizophrenic

[sage bronze]

he's not a liar if he believes it

[pure inlet]

He’d be a liar if not for that one dnd

I think TC just meant for him to say it out loud and forgot

maybe not though

They did make him with the smallest inkling of an idea of giving him DLC

[sage bronze]

it was never gonna be dlc it was going to be a character selection mechanic

[split compass]

Hunter's journal on maggots

that's pretty funny

[fading crane]

The Collector can kill the Radiance?

[dense sonnet]

No obviously not

[fading crane]

Void beings in general can?

[dense sonnet]

No

Only the Lord of Shades can

[split compass]

you need serious Void muscle

not just some crazy guy jumping all around

[hot lily]

I mean doesn't he also lie in his dreams

[split compass]

he's lying to himself

(and he's very good at it)

[lusty crest]

Messaging for image perms(ignore this)

[tough jetty]

that's just not allowed

anyway how was your day

get your message count up this way

do you have any lore questions?

[lusty crest]

Sorry

[tough jetty]

well lets have a chat

get your messages up without spamming

[lusty crest]

What voice should i give the knight

Im making a mii of him

[tough jetty]

Knight has no voice iirc so uh

i would imagine very dark and grim, as hollow knight is not the jolliest game

like an old warrior

maybe sounds wise

idk

[lusty crest]

I think ill choose the bear voice

[tough jetty]

bear voice?

[lusty crest]

Yeah theres a bunch of voices you can give the miis

[tough jetty]

is this tomadachi life 2

[lusty crest]

Id show them but i need image perms

ye

[tough jetty]

is it good

(so far at least)

[lusty crest]

Idk im playing the demo

[tough jetty]

oh there's a demo?

nice

[rapid pollen]

They have found peace after hopping channels for perms

[lusty crest]

yes

[rapid pollen]

Whats a mii

[tough jetty]

the nintendo guys you can customize from the wii

wii sports characters

[lusty crest]

bars

[lusty crest]

Ill just give The Knight the most cryptic voice

[true minnow]

EEEEEEEE

[tough jetty]

FFFFFFFF

[silk tinsel]

does lemm have important lore

as in literally himself

not necessarily what he can tell you about hallownest from relics (i know there's lore there)

[blissful nacelle]

Relic Seekers as a concept

That there is a society of them around the world

Outside of that… idk

[signal marlin]

ccmaci jumpscare

[signal marlin]

depends what u mean when saying important

[silk tinsel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[signal marlin]

[silk tinsel]

i at least know now that he came in and occupied the room in watcher spire after the city was empty

[split compass]

relic seekers are the most important lore

get me that artifact lore

[potent wave]

Guys did skibidi toilet force the pale king to turn into a smaller form

[ebon patio]

correct

[scenic surge]

is that the actual ccmaci

[split compass]

of YouTube fame?

[compact berry]

What kind of bug is grimm?

[split compass]

cinnabar moth

(not really)

he's not specified to be a particular kind of bug

[compact berry]

Looks legit tho lol

I assume he is a vampire if not a bug

[split compass]

he's pretty halloweenish, so he has dracula traits

[worldly fractal]

does pharloom turn back to normal if lost lace is ded?

[compact berry]

#sk-lore wrong channel to ask lol

[worldly fractal]

bro what 😭

i asked in discussion and lore already

[supple jackal]

are spirits just a mere projection of dead people or their memories or are they the actual people?

[bold arrow]

Scared man

[oak jolt]

sk = silksong this is the normal hollow knight channell lore only

[worldly fractal]

ig

*oh

my bad

[fading crane]

Grimm is a vessel of Nightmare Heart

[compact berry]

But I thought everyone is a bug here

[loud crater]

False.

We also have trees and wyrms.

[compact berry]

wwho the dragon?

[orchid dirge]

there are also arachnids, crustaceans and mollusks

[loud crater]

No, more like a worm.

That's what the Pale King is.

[compact berry]

A worm is still a bug or insect family

[compact berry]

crustaceans?? mollusks?

who are they?

[loud crater]

No they aren't.

[compact berry]

ohh we do have walking mushroomss..

[loud crater]

Google.

[orchid dirge]

the entire coral tower plus that npc in the pharloom bau which is definetly in the sea of sorrow dlc

bay

[loud crater]

Snail Shamans are snails.

[compact berry]

alright we're not all made out of bugs 🙁

maybe the forest

and coral

anything mother nature has to offer

[orchid dirge]

not to mention there are multiple sea shells in the blue lake

[orchid dirge]

except for mammals, reptiles, birds, amphibias, fish and etc.

[loud crater]

Mantises :

[compact berry]

Jelly fish??!!

Uumuu

we have fish!

[orchid dirge]

jelly fish are not actual fish

[orchid dirge]

...mantises are bugs....

[fading crane]

White Lady:

[compact berry]

What is a White Lady?

[fading crane]

A root

[fading crane]

Nightmare Heart, the Vessels, Hornet, Shade Beast...

[loud crater]

Basically all Higher Beings arent bugs.

The only argument I've seen against it is for Unn who's like a slug type creature.

[fading crane]

Radiance?

[loud crater]

Shes not a bug. Shes made of Essence.

[fading crane]

Oh, true

[fading crane]

Unn is similar to a ||Lavalarga||

[loud crater]

Vaguely.

[fading crane]

I see this in Google

So Unn aren't too a bug

[fading crane]

Given that none of the HBs we've seen are actually insects, could we consider that one of the requirements for being an HB?

[loud crater]

Potentially.

[pure inlet]

Wyrms aren’t not insects

[dense sonnet]

Oh my god

Dude Wyrms are distinct to bugs in-universe stop being a dumbass

Insect is a meaningless term but Wyrms wouldn’t be insects irl either

[dense sonnet]

This is irrelevant because HK doesn’t follow irl biology
But Unn is not a slug because slugs already exist in-universe (e.g. Salubra) and are clearly a different species

Regular slugs probably DO count as bugs in-universe contrary to what that Google search implies

[fading crane]

🤔

Curious

[real wyvern]

What are u guys on abt?

[fading crane]

Higher Beings and bugs

[real wyvern]

Bugs

[safe prairie]

what tf happened to hk lore

oh

my messages weren't loading mb

[sand stump]

Elaborate

Aah

[safe prairie]

i saw the last message from 4/24 and i thought it was dead

[sand stump]

Ooh fair enough

[loud crater]

No, Mantises.

[pure inlet]

Is ||Bell Eater|| an insect

[dense sonnet]

Stop asking stupid questions

[trim glade]

no

[split compass]

yes

[pseudo lodge]

He's literally formed like a Centipede, obviously he's a bug

[pine karma]

uhm actually

the infection is tagerine not orange

stop thinking the name of the fruit that is recongized for the color is the name of the color

[tough jetty]

Technically it's a millipede

🤓

[faint tulip]

This game is full of bugs

I rlly hate myself for saying that

[hard willow]

it really is buggy

[signal marlin]

no it isnt

[hard willow]

the character you play as is practically a walking bug at this point🤦‍♂️

[faint tulip]

Haha

We should jump lwk

[hard willow]

jump who

team cherry?

[faint tulip]

Jump from a building :p

[signal marlin]

TK isnt a bug

[faint tulip]

Half bug?

He's made of void yeah but isn't wyrms technically bugs?

Or Is he fully void

[hard willow]

i think he is half pale being

half whatever the tree women is

and another 100% void

so he has 200%

[signal marlin]

not a bug at all

[signal marlin]

no wyrms arent bugs

[faint tulip]

Oh so he's not even a bug at all

Can he even be considered half pale being?

[indigo venture]

I wouldn't say so

[faint tulip]

So they're all purely void?

[terse spindle]

no

[faint tulip]

I hate and love hk lore

[terse spindle]

Vessels in general are meant to be full void

So the physical traits are just a husk

[faint tulip]

Were they all supposed to be hollow?

[terse spindle]

Yeah but it didn't go as planned

The void Is certain proof of that

[faint tulip]

Well, why was the hollow knight not hollow?

[terse spindle]

The PK messed up

even with void, they CAN develop other things

[faint tulip]

Oh

I can fix him

[terse spindle]

That make them "not hollowed"

[faint tulip]

Or it idk

[split compass]

given the huge number of vessels created, PK probably didn't assume that any given vessel would serve his needs
so he made a huge number hoping at least one would turn out the way he wanted

[green pilot]

The pale king seems to think that it was the fact that they bonded. In reality I doubt THK would have held the radiance for eternity even without the father and son bonding

[terse spindle]

Without mentioning the void within a vessel isn't enough

They needed two vessels

[faint tulip]

Well I have a different question

[terse spindle]

And tons of Shades..

[faint tulip]

Who's the weaver we see when we leave weaver's den and what happened to him?

[green pilot]

We don't know

Maybe he departed for the weavers old home

[terse spindle]

I think it's just one of the last survivors of the weavers

Or atleast those kind of weavers

[faint tulip]

How'd they even die

[terse spindle]

no idea, but maybe the fact herrah was basically in commah

[green pilot]

That's also something we don't really know

[faint tulip]

Team cherry just loves to edge us don't they

[green pilot]

I mean unless you use silksong lore

[terse spindle]

Maybe that's team cherry's mission

[hard willow]

team apple is the masters at edging

[terse spindle]

I thought it was team lemon

[faint tulip]

Why was radiance such a bitch

[split compass]

freedom of religion

[faint tulip]

Okay...why were the mantises a bunch of dicks

[green pilot]

Imagine if a new neighbour moved in and he stole all of your friends and belongings and then your entire house as well

I'd be pretty mad as well

[faint tulip]

Y'know what

Fair

I'd honestly just annihilate them all ngl

[green pilot]

They like murder and honour

[faint tulip]

That sounds nice

[terse spindle]

Radiance was an all seeing being

And he still couldn't see any other tactic rather Than killing them all

Like just kill the PK

[loud crater]

What?

[green pilot]

When is that stated

[loud crater]

Just now by them.

[green pilot]

Ah

Must have missed the forest of bones lore tablet

[blissful crest]

Radiance is not omniscient in any regard

[split compass]

she sees you when you're sleeping

and presumably knows when you're awake

[loud crater]

"The missile knows where it is by subtracting where it knows it isnt from where it is"

[terse spindle]

It's not a statement, it's a slander joke

[loud crater]

We dont joke here. But if you do, add a at the end.

[terse spindle]

That sounds like something you'd hear at a prison cell and I'm sure this isnt a prison cell

[indigo venture]

Really

[hard willow]

this is a prison cell

[honest wyvern]

Idk about that statement...

[sand stump]

I agree, I'd say its more like communal solitary

[loud crater]

Is it more like an echo chamber? Or is that more SK-Lore?

<@&283547423706447872> 98% sure this is like a scam thing.

Its everywhere.

[humble isle]

It’s where we abyss shriek until the Abyss shrieks back.

[loud crater]

Its where we have no voice to cry suffering yet we still cry suffering.

[humble isle]

Yep. Because we are tryhards.

Who enjoy Path of Pain.

(I shudder at the way of happiness mod though)

It’s seriously scary

[hot lily]

and he was always going to

[vital pulsar]

i might be dense but ive only thought about this now. mothwing cloak? as in... the wings of a moth?

[humble isle]

Yeah…

[tough jetty]

the moth's winged cloaks?

or i gues it could just be their wings, named mothwing cloak because they turned mothwings into a cloak

that makes more sens

e

[hard willow]

yeah

thats what i thought

or you have the old wings of dead moths

[hot lily]

iirc it's not literally from Radiance's moths

[vital pulsar]

just makes me wonder about the origins of the cloaks

[slim wing]

hi guys

i don't understand why does quirrel k*** him self

[signal marlin]

he doesnt

[scenic surge]

the Pale king didn't steal them though

[green pilot]

He basically did

In her eyes that's what he did

[scenic surge]

it's stealing if I go to your house take it and throw you out

it's not stealing when the house kicks you out and invites that neighbour in

As the moths said they were the ones at fault here

[green pilot]

Ok there you got a point

[scenic surge]

as the seer states atp that's just the houses fault

Like when your own house, friends and belongings just kick you out when they see the neighbour across the street and just invite them in then atp that's not the neighbours fault

[visual kiln]

I have a theory

[scenic surge]

that's just you having very bad friends and a apparently bad house

also nice slime rancher pfp

[visual kiln]

Maybe…. Esmy is the friends we made along the way

[green pilot]

In her situation it would look like PK stole everything from her, it was just a jokey example.

[green pilot]

Fire slime is the best slime

[humble current]

[stable falcon]

Guys I wanted to say smt

About th pale king

[stable falcon]

Imagine being the Pale King during the last days of Hallownest.
You spent years creating children, only to discard them. Thousands of shells, all your offspring, left behind in the Abyss. All of it was done for a single purpose: to contain a mad deity you once challenged.

One of them was different.

The child you chose, the one meant to seal the Radiance, was not just created. He was raised by you. And somewhere along the way, you grew to love him.

But the future of your kingdom mattered more than your own son.

So you sealed him inside the Black Egg, trapping the Radiance within him. You believed this would end it, that your perfect vessel would hold forever.

But it was not perfect.
Because you loved him.

That love created a crack in his will, a flaw. And through that flaw, the Radiance endured, still reaching out, still infecting the world beyond.
A plague spread across your kingdom. Minds broke. Your empire collapsed.
Now, as your palace slowly crumbles around you, there is nothing left to do but sit on your throne and wait. The darkness you kept away finally consumes you ,and you let it ; cause the darkness was better than the light.

[obtuse terrace]

I think you got the tineline wrong

[stable falcon]

?

That’s how I understood the story

What’s wrong?

[sinful sparrow]

thats pretty much the story

But his palace was transported to the dream realm trying to hide from the radiance as releic seaker lemm says the palace soemehow vanished

nobody knows how the pale king died

[rugged comet]

Gravedigger - Dirtmouth - General

Ehh... Another wielding a weapon. I suppose you'll be leaving many a corpse in your wake?
If you won't spare thought for the dead at least consider all the extra work you force upon those in my profession.
Do as you will little wanderer. Cut a path toward your goal.
I shouldn't complain. It's your kind that keeps folks like me in business.

@herb9389 used /npcs spirits name: Gravedigger category: Dirtmouth dialogue: General

[thorny moth]

@strange trout

That's his whole dialogue

[stable falcon]

Isn't the thing behind the Knight literally the rubble of the castle

[scenic surge]

he literally transported the entirety of his palace into the dream realm

or more specifically one made up out of his essence

which is really impressive

[scenic surge]

lemm states that the palace vanished

not that it turned to rubble

and we literally see the actual pale kings corpse in the white palace

alongside the kingsoul fragment

[hard willow]

how old is the knight

[timber snow]

old

there are no measurements of time really, but they’re ancient

[loud crater]

Many many bug lifetimes.

[hard willow]

like 600

400

45

60

[loud crater]

A lot.

[hard willow]

like 40

or 400

[loud crater]

I dont know.

Its a lot tho.

They're anceint.

[scenic surge]

older then hornet

[hard willow]

i know that

[scenic surge]

so like way past 500

[scenic surge]

nothing says this

but I mean

given how many bug generations past whilst the infection was under control

and the gigantic time that took place after the hollow knight started failing

for the knight to show up

to then silksong

probably is like a very good many centuries

[hard willow]

i always thought around 600

[fiery vector]

Hi, I'm new here

[nocturne gull]

me too

is there anyone have a HK steam key

i really wanna play it on steam so i can use mods

[thorny moth]

U rlly shouldn't be asking man I don't think anyone will give it to u.

[nocturne gull]

can anyone prove that he is wrong

[faint tulip]

Did wyrms actually have foresight?

And if they did, was it really that bad that all of them just went extinct?

[next portal]

so someone is just begging for hk on the lore channel

neat thing he also joined TODAY ✌️😭

[faint tulip]

Wow what a coincidence

[next portal]

[loud crater]

Yes they did.

[loud crater]

All we know for sure is that large form Wyrms are all dead.

[faint tulip]

So was the white lady a wyrm?

Since she's also a pale being

[loud crater]

No.

Shes a Root.

[faint tulip]

That's hot

[loud crater]

Not all Pale Beings are Wyrms.

[scenic surge]

in fact it's implied the pale king is special as a pale wyrm

[fervent kestrel]

If the Knight has "no mind to think", why do they help others? Is that just not canon?

[bold night]

The knight is not as pure as you think

[scenic surge]

the knight is said to be impure

it's a discarded vessel

[loud crater]

That wasn't literal.

[fervent kestrel]

Alrighty, thanks guys

[ruby jay]

what is not true

[scenic surge]

"thinking "this is typa shi will happen if we welcome the PK""

especially since they wouldn't deal with that if they did accept pk

[split compass]

that requirement most likely isn't literal - the whole point is to trap the Radiance in the mind of a vessel, Pale King wouldn't want one that literally had no mind

[hard willow]

well

he was pure

but no longer is

the all where born pure

[loud crater]

No.

I swear we've been over this.

[hard willow]

been over how i am right

[loud crater]

No.

If you start pure you can't become unpure.

[loud crater]

You lack the necessary attributes to become unpure.

[signal marlin]

[split compass]

there's nothing whatsoever in the game that supports that view

and dialogue that actively contradicts it

White Lady describes the Hollow Knight as having been 'tarnished', a word that means 'to destroy the purity of something/to render a thing impure' etc.

that's not even what 'pure' means in real life - it means 'uncontaminated', not 'unable to ever be contaminated'

the idea is that a pure vessel would never be infected/succumb to Radiance

but losing purity itself is something that the pale beings only mistakenly assumed couldn't happen

[loud crater]

The line right before it is something along the lines of "We misjudged its strength".

[neat kite]

i agree with this

[loud crater]

Strength meaning purity.

[hot lily]

correct

[loud crater]

Thank you.

[signal marlin]

it depends how youre defining purity

[hot lily]

also you can't argue dictionary definitions because not only does the game use British English instead of American, English as a language does not have a prescriptive dictionary

[loud crater]

I always define it as "being able to permanently seal the Radiance away."

[signal marlin]

well from that it doesnt follow that purity cant be lost, that definition is just about the functionality of purity

[hot lily]

if a being believed to be pure later shows signs of impurity then it was never pure to begin with

[signal marlin]

if you presuppose purity as immutable yes

it seems that, that presupposition is whats under contention, mainly from yak - so it would need to be justified

[hot lily]

i mean that's what PK and WL believed, they assumed all vessels to be pure from creation only to fail later

[signal marlin]

this doesnt discriminate between either position though - that can be true for purity being immutable and not

[neat kite]

i actually agree with this strongly

[hot lily]

@sage bronze it's that discussion again

[split compass]

The line from White Light exactly is

Its supposed strength was ill-judged. It was tarnished by an idea instilled.
i.e. 'We thought this thing couldn't be tarnished, but we were wrong. It was tarnished, by etc.'
so many people misread this I feel - they think the assumption was that THK was pure when it wasn't, but the wording suggests that the assumption was that it couldn't be made impure, but that's what happened

White Lady's next line is

But you. You are free of such blemishes. You could contain that thing inside.
TK can contain the Radiance/is pure because they don't have 'instilled ideas'

[neat kite]

purity wouldn't even be immutable considering in hollow knight, void can be given imprint/whatever else is associated with it

[split compass]

you can argue that she's wrong, but there's nothing in the in-game dialogue to support this idea that 'if you're pure you can't be made impure'

and again, that's not even what purity means irl

[neat kite]

nobody even uses it to mean that

[split compass]

it means 'uncontaminated', and not 'unable to ever be contaminated or you were never pure'

[loud crater]

Bro its a fantasy world, real world definitions are very loosely obey if at all.

[split compass]

then you're right

[split compass]

maybe, but I see no reason to go with made up fantasy definitions that aren't supported by anything in the game over real world definitions in this particular case

[neat kite]

but words have meaning, unless you say HK redefines every word it uses and you are only correct arbiter of what they mean

'if you're pure you can't be made impure' argument is No True Scotsman fallacy at it's finest

[loud crater]

In most other words pertaining to Vessels(Void, Hollow, Vessel) don't follow the real world definitions so why would Purity, another Vessel related word, follow it?

[loud crater]

What's that?

[neat kite]

The No True Scotsman is a way of protecting a universal generalization by moving the goalposts.

[split compass]

if you want to argue that 'purity' includes the requirement 'cannot be tarnished or it was never pure in the first place' you can do that
but there's literally nothing in the game to support that view
and WL flat out says that purity being untarnishable was a mistaken assumption the pale beings made

[neat kite]

Even in fantasy, adjectives must retain their logical core to mean anything.

[split compass]

a lot of people just assume WL is wrong based on either a literal view (literally no mind/will), which is pretty implausible
or that WL is wrong because they think purity is untarnishable - but there's nothing to support that view, and dialogue actively contradicts it

[loud crater]

I dont understand how I'm doing that then.

[hot lily]

WL is wrong because she contradicts herself regarding her judgment of the Knight, and by extension, every other vessel she's seen

[near sequoia]

200 holllow knight fans vs Reading comprehension

[loud crater]

"Its supposed strength was Ill-judged."->"We thought it was Pure but we judged wrong."

[near sequoia]

WL doesn't say purity can be lost she says it was always impure as Horf just pointed out

[neat kite]

The reason it's a fallacy is that you've defined 'Purity' as 'Unchangeable/Nontarnishable' But the game uses the word 'Tarnished,' which literally means a pure thing became impure. If your definition doesn't allow for the word 'Tarnished' to exist, your definition is fighting the game's script.

[near sequoia]

If it was pure it wouldn't be ill judged its not deep at all and its a very easy dialogue to wrap your head around

[split compass]

no - what is the very next line she says, and what do the words mean?

[neat kite]

Instilled means to introduce something into a space that was previously empty.

Tarnished means to take something clean and make it dirty.

[loud crater]

That is self condritictory. I avoid using that quote because she immediately says that. It self cancels out.

[hot lily]

again you can't use dictionary definitions

[near sequoia]

Its not contradictory she just uses it as evidence not a cause

Its supposed strength was ill judged [for the vessel] was tarnished by an idea instilled

[neat kite]

as i said, even in fantasy, adjectives must retain their logical core to mean anything.

[near sequoia]

The vessel being tarnished and WL misjudging THK's purity are not mutually exclusive at all

In fact its used to support it

[hot lily]

i'm not saying they don't have a definition, i'm saying the way TC uses those words are not necessarily in the same way whatever dictionary you're quoting uses them

[split compass]

the supposed strength was the idea that purity couldn't be tarnished - this was a mistaken assumption that WL is referring to
tarnished is a word that means 'to destroy the purity of something'
you wouldn't use it to describe something that was never pure in the first place - else what's being tarnished, the purity it never had?
the straight forward reading is her saying that THK was pure, and was tarnished by an 'idea instilled', losing that purity - something the pale beings had mistakenly assumed couldn't happen
which is also why she claims that TK is pure because they lack what tarnished THK - in the absence of what tarnishes, a thing is pure

[near sequoia]

The supposed strength was its purity you cannot be for real bro

Holy confirmation bias

[split compass]

sorry star, but everyone was wrong about that except for me

[neat kite]

You're saying I can't use a dictionary, but you're literally inventing a new dictionary where 'Tarnished' means 'Born flawed.' Why would TC use a word that implies a change of state if they didn't mean a change of state occurred??

[loud crater]

We've established TC are morons

[near sequoia]

The dictionary is correct TC didn't invent a whole new word

Its not that deep just read the sentence bro

They thought THK was pure but they know it isn't because THK got tarnished

[split compass]

this assumes the definition of purity includes 'cannot be made impure or you were never pure'
the whole point is that this is a made-up requirement that the people in this channel just invented because they thought that's how it ought to work

[near sequoia]

I'm not assuming anything

To say that the "supposed strength" is the idea that purity can't be tarnished is a completely baseless and absurd reading when purity is clearly the focus here

All I'm "assuming" is that "supposed strength" refers to purity which is comically obvious

[split compass]

it's literally what the words she uses means

[neat kite]

Star, you’re talking about reading comprehension while ignoring how verbs work.

For something to be tarnished, it has to be clean first. If the Vessel was born impure, the word tarnished literally wouldn’t be in the script.

[split compass]

Here are the definitions of the terms she uses:

Tarnished
-to diminish or destroy the purity of; stain; sully:
Instilled
-infused slowly or gradually into the mind or feelings
Pure
-freedom from anything that contaminates, pollutes, etc.
-freedom from any admixture or modifying addition.

White Lady describes the Hollow Knight as being tarnished by an idea instilled.
Their **purity **was **destroyed **by a **modifying addition **that was infused into their mind.

Therefore the White Lady's words:
"Its supposed strength was ill-judged. It was tarnished by an idea instilled."
can be understood as:
"We assumed its purity couldn't be tarnished, but we were wrong. It was **tarnished **by an idea instilled."

[near sequoia]

bro used the dictionary definition of pure I'm crying

[hot lily]

and yet she later contradicts herself regarding the purity/lack thereof of the Knight

[neat kite]

You guys are stuck in a No True Scotsman loop. You’ve decided that 'True Purity' means 'Invincibility.'(or Unchangeable state) So, when the Vessel fails, you claim it was never pure to begin with. That’s moving the goalposts to protect a headcanon.

[hot lily]

which you are explicitly ignoring

[near sequoia]

I didn't decide this

Bro just waffling

Anyway tarnished doesn't necessarily refer to its purity being lost it probably just refers to it getting infected because duh

[split compass]

if you want to argue that she is using a different meaning for these words, go ahead - but there's nothing in the game to support ideas like 'it was never pure in the first place' or 'what's pure cannot be made impure'

[neat kite]

what did you decide? what is your point?

[loud crater]

White lady is a GODDAMN MORON and I'm tired of not saying anything about it. They didn't know how Void or Vessels worked back then and she sure as shit doesnt now. Assuming she suddenly can sense a lack of a blemish when she didnt during the entirety of THK's training is frankly absurd.

[near sequoia]

WL says they assumed it was pure but it isn't because it was tarnished (by Radiance)

[split compass]

I never ignore anything
(Tormented Yak will remember this)
you're just mistaken about this point

WL never contradicts herself or walks back her assessment of TK
she mentions that she cannot sense TK's emotions, when TK returns to her with the Void Heart

this is entirely consistent with TK having an imperceptible mental state (no instilled ideas) that WL cannot recognize

[near sequoia]

How does "Its supposed strength" translate to "we assumed its purity couldn't be tarnished" lmao

That's a whole new sentence

[split compass]

supposed strength refers to a purity that cannot be tarnished

[near sequoia]

or just purity

Which is what she's talking about

She thinks TK is a pure vessel and THK is not

THK isn't pure because it was tarnished by an idea instilled

That's proof not a cause and if it was a cause the supposed strength wouldn't be ill judged

[split compass]

and tarnished means that it was pure and made impure, instilled being something that was added to it
the ill-judgement was that this couldn't happen - the supposed strength was that purity couldn't be tarnished
turns out it can

[near sequoia]

Tarnished doesn't mean that bruh

[split compass]

say you

[near sequoia]

Yep I said that

[hot lily]

if purity by definition is not supposed to be tarnished, and yet the entity in question was tarnished anyway, it was never pure to begin with

[near sequoia]

Not really a rebuttal

[hot lily]

so in other words your argument leads to the same conclusion per WL's own logic

[neat kite]

Your argument is a total No True Scotsman fallacy, and incorrectly relies on Purity being unchangeable state

[near sequoia]

she doesn't say anything of the life of assuming purity couldn't be lost

[loud crater]

Chat, is this an appeal to definition fallacy?

[near sequoia]

ChatGPT generate me a logical fallacy

I never said anything of the like of purity being unchangeable

[hot lily]

and this is, again, not even considering the fact that WL declares TK to be pure...only to admit later on that she can't actually tell

[near sequoia]

Which I do believe but is ultimately besides the point

[neat kite]

No True Scotsman fallacy is public knowledge

[loud crater]

Wasn't to me.

[timber snow]

to nerds

[near sequoia]

I know what it means but its completely unrelated and posting random logical fallacies isn't a compelling point

[neat kite]

your argument still relies on it, despite technically never having said it

[near sequoia]

Straw man, inherent bias, circular reasoning, cherry picking, oversimplification, lack of proof, slippery slope, so on and so forth

[near sequoia]

No it doesn't it just relies on supposed strength referring to purity

[hot lily]

"supposed strength", supposed meaning assumed

[split compass]

you are mischaracterizing her statment - she never says anything to suggest that she doubts her earlier assessment
all she says is that if TK feels anything, she (WL) cannot sense it
I argue this is entirely consistent with her claim that they are a pure vessel, without 'instilled ideas' - there's nothing they can sense

[sage bronze]

THK ever being pure is such a fundamentally huge inability to grasp the core narrative of the game it’s funny anyone is brain dead enough to still be arguing it

[hot lily]

i am not, because plenty of evidence in the game shows that TK is not pure, and this isn't even considering Silksong

[loud crater]

Or she can't sense Void and is finally saying it because TK now has another option that doesnt rely on it sealing The Radiance.

[split compass]

based on what standard of purity? you've previously admitted you don't know what the requirements are

[neat kite]

The narrative weight comes from the fact that he succeeded in making a Pure Vessel, but his own choice to raise it and bond with it is what tarnished it. The King caused his own failure...

[near sequoia]

Well yes purity is inherently unobtainable and the project was doomed that's the point of the game but even if you completely skipped over PK and Brumm and Vespa and the Mushroom guy and Dream No More as a whole, you can still understand White Lady's dialogue at a glance

[hot lily]

a pure vessel actually being possible would contradict the central narrative of "nothing lasts forever"

[split compass]

maybe people don't understand the core narrative of the game as well as they think they do and are poopy turd-faces

[loud crater]

The whole major theme is nothing lasts forever. Forever is an inability. Claiming the PK almost had it kind of defeats the whole point.

[sage bronze]

Rare literate HK fan

[loud crater]

This is a huge honor from you, my friend.

[near sequoia]

Because its just soooo subtle

To rail against nature is folly. All things must accept an end.

But yours is potential, eternity potential, force that could deny Time.

Bear witness to the last and only civilisation, the eternal Kingdom.
Hallownest

One of these is the 3rd piece of text in the game btw

[neat kite]

Senris, calling it nerdy is just a cope for the fact that you can’t follow the script.

[loud crater]

Did you recite that in the mirror or something?

[hot lily]

because a pure vessel, by PK's own definition, would seal Radiance forever

[neat kite]

?????

[hot lily]

and thus would serve as a counterexample to the narrative if it was in fact possible

[loud crater]

That was like awhile ago man.

[split compass]

it's almost like he made some kind of mistaken assumption

[timber snow]

if you mean i can’t follow, i do doesn’t make it any less nerdy
also damn i sent that like 10 mins ago

[near sequoia]

What

Purity is his word its not an actual thing in nature

Its his construct he doesn't have a "mistaken assumption"

THK doesn't fit the bill

It never did

[neat kite]

was it? because i was actually reading previous argument, most recent ones is bunch snarky comments like "braindead" and stuff like that

[near sequoia]

"Pale Wyrm...What good to foresee a demise unavoidable?"
I wonder why that is

[loud crater]

What? And yeah, compared to the flow of conversation it was awhile ago.

[neat kite]

also calling things nerdy and braindead is ultimate cope and form of concession, people shift from making arguments to making snarky insults

[near sequoia]

Its kinda hard to piece together but I think the game has a theme

The Ritual plays itself out once more. We are like the notes in an old, old song. You and me. Mrmm.
Endless, repeating songs of sacrifice, of servitude. For the Ritual. For the troupe. For the Master.
Even this child was born into invisible chains. Mrmm.

Mrmm. A song that never ends... is no song at all.