hk-lore

[indigo venture]

Which is in Distant Village

[stable raptor]

o

what 3 months of only silksong does to a guy

sorry

[median sleet]

Whys the tramway in deepnest failed?

[marble gorge]

They cut themselves from the rest of the world

[loud crater]

Angry locals.

[median sleet]

What locals

Ain’t noone live there

[loud crater]

The wild life.

Dirtcarvers

[median sleet]

oh

[loud crater]

And the enemies there.

[median sleet]

What about the other tramway

It works fine

[loud crater]

Which one?

[median sleet]

The one to the right

[loud crater]

Anceint Basin to Kingdom's Edge?

[median sleet]

Ig

[median sleet]

They arent that strong

[loud crater]

There aren't any guard corpses. And they can swarm.

[stable raptor]

i lost my steel soul to them 😢

[fervent cloak]

Where is the pale king from

[dense sonnet]

North Carolina

[indigo venture]

Unkown

Same for all wyrms

And all Higher Beings now that I think about it

[green pilot]

Zote the mighty came from zoteland the mighty

So there's at least one

[hot lily]

no

[carmine abyss]

i think ZOTE THE MIGHTY came from Shelwood

[indigo venture]

nah

[halcyon grail]

idk most babies come from the hospictal so poblrbly trhere

[scarlet grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-does-he-know-gif-26833694

oh dang

my gif doesnt work

😭

i'm gonna go cry now

WAHHHHHHHH

WHY DOES MY GIF NOT WORK

AHHHH

[tough jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-does-he-know-gif-26833694

[tough jetty]

btw was it intended that the player would:
Find the riddle tablet
Understand what it means
Have spore shroom equipped
and travel to all of those places in that order

[sand stump]

yeah?

yeah it was

[tough jetty]

how

i get that in silksong it's kinda similar but at least they give you the quest and explain it a little more
but even the location of that quest is more obvious
i barely even knew that chasm was there in hk

[sand stump]

damn

also what you mean "How" 😭

Someone obviously figured it out and it was in the game so Yeah we were supposed to find it

[median sleet]

Why are one of the miners in crystal peak not infected and get infected later?

[sand stump]

Myla?

Either way its just because they weren't

[median sleet]

Huh

[sand stump]

They weren't infected because they weren't infected

[split compass]

she was Infected, you just don't realize it until later - Infection symptoms worsen over time

[median sleet]

Oh i see

Why are sly and bretta ok?

[split compass]

we manage to wake them up before they get Infected

its why they had the cloudies, but we missed our chance with Myla because she was Infected before we ever met her

[median sleet]

Ok

Whys dung defender’s dream fight in white palace?

[split compass]

Dung Defender is Ogrim, one of the Five Great Knights who served the Pale King
his fondest memories are of the King and his fellow knights in White Palace

[median sleet]

Whys he a dung defender now

[split compass]

he mentions that he's taken up some oath that keeps him in the Waterways

possibly fighting the Infected there

[pure inlet]

Ahh. You exude the proud odour of the Just. Truly, a mighty Knight you are.

Wait so Ogrim’s title is Just Ogrim right

I don’t know why I didn’t think about that

I guess Sheo’s titles might have been just him saying shit

But “the Just” isn’t said anywhere else

[split compass]

are the other titles?

[pure inlet]

Guess not

But Sheo says them so matter of factly

Like it’s something everyone would have known

[stable raptor]

its most likely defening isma grove

[hollow epoch]

how is the dung defender not infected

[stable raptor]

strong will

hes one of the 5 great knights

[hollow epoch]

but the radiance infects anyone who can dream right?

[stable raptor]

not if they can resist

[hollow epoch]

ok

[hearty heron]

Hornet is ok too for that reason

[earnest sundial]

He is protecting Isma

[brisk venture]

Strong wills can resist the infection to a degree

Such as the mantis tribe

In fungal wastes

Bardoon, mask maker, hornet, ogrim, lemm, salubra, sly, corni, iselda, elder bug, etc etc

Either just be so dissolved in your work that you dont gaf about the radience

Or be able to resist her

But even that doesnt work because wills can break

As evident with myla

[hot lily]

no it clearly does

[hollow epoch]

oh i was going to ask that question aswell so did the traitor lord and the traitor mantis willingly infect themselves?

[brisk venture]

yes

[brisk venture]

Not for long

[brisk venture]

Yeah, that's their lore lol

They willingly took the infection for strength and got exiled

[rugged comet]

Hunter's Journal: Traitor Lord

Description:
Deposed Lord of the Mantis tribe. Embraced the infection and turned against his sisters.

Hunter's notes:
I have felt that desire. The desire to take the infection into myself. To become stronger, more powerful... these thoughts haunt my dreams during the darkest times. A false hope, but it can burn so brilliantly in one's mind.

Dream Nail:
...Outcast...Survive...Kill...
...Intruder...Destroy...
Our lands now...

@mebaconcraft used /journal name: Traitor Lord text: Full Text

[hollow epoch]

ok but if mantis not infected why do they attack

the ones in fungal waste

[brisk venture]

dont like outsiders

[hollow epoch]

but they stop attacking after you defeat the mantis lords

[brisk venture]

Respect

[hollow epoch]

ok

[rugged comet]

Lore Tablet: Fungal Wastes - Mantis Village ("Wanderer's seeking death")

Wanderers seeking death, welcome.
May you find swift end upon our claws.

@mebaconcraft used /lore-tablets area: Fungal Wastes name: Mantis Village ("Wanderer's seeking death")

[wary star]

wow i can read journal and lore tablets in discord lol

[rugged comet]

Lore Tablet: King's Pass - "Focus your Soul"

Higher beings, these words are for you alone.
Your great strength marks you amongst us. Focus your soul and you shall achieve feats of which others can only dream.

@scatman_cat20 used /lore-tablets area: King's Pass name: "Focus your Soul"

[wary star]

cool

[hot lily]

Mantises have been doing it successfully since the first wave so, yes for long

[brisk venture]

So has myla but she fell

[hot lily]

no? myla has only been doing it since the second wave

[fading crane]

Amongst us
🤔
What does it mean?

[hot lily]

and myla certainly doesn't have a will as strong as the mantis tribe considering the only mantises that fell to Rad were those who did so willingly

[hollow epoch]

who is zote

[indigo venture]

Random bug from a distant land that has delusions of being a Knight

Probably old

[hollow epoch]

ok

[compact berry]

Am I the only one that doesn't believe this looks like or says Hornet's room?

[indigo venture]

Hornets Room?

[compact berry]

I was mentioning about this area but I can't post pictures here 🙁
#hk-help message

It doesn't say Hornet's name anywhere

[indigo venture]

What

[indigo venture]

Oh its called that in the files

[compact berry]

How do we get access to HK code??

[indigo venture]

By checking the game files

[hot lily]

File names aren't canon

[frosty rivet]

Why do the Greenpath and Fungal Wastes themes have the Vessel leitmotif?

[loud crater]

Wym?

[frosty rivet]

I can hear that they have the same melody as the main theme at 1:18 and 0:13 in those songs respectively

[stable raptor]

because it is the game main leitmotif

[frosty rivet]

Yes..? That doesn't explain why it's in only thematically accurate songs and then two random environmental themes

[indigo venture]

Music Choice?

I dont really see what Music has to do with lore

[stable raptor]

idk prob just something to make the themes recognizable

[frosty rivet]

??

[frosty rivet]

If you don't know then why'd you respond

[stable raptor]

it just dosent have nothing to do with the lore

whats special about fungal wastes except being fungal

[frosty rivet]

Why the hell do you think I'm asking why one of the two most important leitmotifs in the game is in some random song that has nothing to do with it

[stable raptor]

this isnt deltarune

leitmotifs are leitmotifs

[frosty rivet]

What an ingenious answer to my question

Really helps me a lot

[indigo venture]

There isnt a proper answer that we could know, the only ones who could properly answer this are TC themselves

It most certainly doesnt have any lore implications regardless, it was just a choice taken in the creation of the music

[frosty rivet]

Tell me you don’t know anything about Christopher Larkin without telling me you don’t know anything about Christopher Larkin

[pure inlet]

Christopher Larpkin

I don’t think there’s any relevance but I’m interested to hear what you wonder

[indigo venture]

Well shit didnt know you knew them personally like dat

My bad

[dense sonnet]

First of all, while I appreciate it can be frustrating not to receive a clear answer to your question there’s no need to be a dick
Secondly, while HK does feature great musical storytelling in general that doesn’t mean every single use of leitmotif is supposed to convey this. This is more obvious when looking at Silksong’s soundtrack, which was also composed by Larkin
I don’t believe there’s necessarily any meaningful connection to be gleaned there, and given you’re asking the question I’m guessing you haven’t arrived at anything either
If you want me to give you an answer, the Vessel theme is also TK’s theme, and therefore features in a few area themes. In particular Greenpath and FW are both early game areas, with the former being significant as it’s where you initially encounter Hornet. So it’s basically just the story unfolding and also helps to make the world feel more interconnected as a result (while prepping your ear for the more notable uses of that leitmotif)

[signal marlin]

kirb is back

[pure inlet]

Meaningless yap

[dense sonnet]

Yeah it is

Like genuinely tf do you want me to say

[pure inlet]

I don’t know

Do you think the stuff Sheo says about the Knights were actual titles they held or just things he’s saying about them

[dense sonnet]

Is this supposed to be a meaningful distinction

They’re epithets

They can be used as titles they can also just refer to various qualities they were generally associated with

[pure inlet]

Not really but Ogrim says we exude the order of the Just when we wear his crest and his epithet goes unnamed so I was wondering if that might be it

[dense sonnet]

Loyal

He’s called loyal Ogrim

He’s also called the kindly god of bravery and honor

Proud odour of the Just could mean knights in general or it could be an attribute he was associated with but idk why it matters either way
I also don’t think these were actual titles if that’s what you’re asking

[sand stump]

whats the topic?

[pure inlet]

Yeah that’s what I’m asking

I understand

Unique charm bestowed by the King of Hallownest to his most loyal knight.

Do you think DCrest had a different effect when PK gave it to him

Or is it just a charm at this very moment

Because PK probably didn’t give Ogrim a stink medal

[dense sonnet]

It was probably always a charm

It may have had some different, minor effect in the past prior to soaking up Ogrim’s “heroic odour”

It wouldn’t be unprecedented for a Charm to develop in such a way

[pure inlet]

Maybe it held a spell

Is the dung spike in WD a spell

[dense sonnet]

Idk why it would be

He just punches the ground really hard which generates earth moving shockwaves

Ogrim is glowing and emitting white particles and shit at the start of the fight, some people have suggested that’s because of PK giving his Knights Soul steroids or something to that effect but personally I think that’s just Essence

Although the alternative is hardly inconceivable

But no to answer your question I don’t think Ogrim used any spells and assuming DC did have a different effect in the past it was probably just like a minor DND Heroism aura type thing (hence it developing into a “heroic odour”)

PK probably had a solid repertoire of buffs

[pure inlet]

This is a dumb question

But do you think the freedom of Rad would result in the infection of WL and Unn

I’m inclined to like say no

I’m not basing the question off of WL’s “all minds”

But Rad definitely grew in scope from first wave to second even while sealed

Where does the line draw

Hornet?

I want to say she could at least infect individuals who have since managed to escape it like Ogrim

But how would a free Rad even manifest

Can she just live in the minds of reanimated corpses forever or would she depend on a living traveler every once in a while

She probably hasn’t thought that far ahead I don’t want to pointlessly speculate

Just the tiniest inkling of a point

[dense sonnet]

No

I don’t think that’s what WL means when she says “all minds relinquished to that pernicious plague” either but there’s nothing else to suggest that would happen and she only grew in scope because it’s been a much longer time (and she wasn’t sealed during the first wave so it wouldn’t make sense for that to be the reason)

When she’s free Rad isn’t more powerful she just has more range (which is to say her capacity to infect the individual probably isn’t going to be significantly increased but the number of potential victims is)

[dense sonnet]

Well obviously she can’t just live in the minds of dead people otherwise the moths who knew about her and died long ago would be able to sustain her existence
And she would likely manifest the same way

But it’s also kind of a pointless question because infected can still reproduce and a lot of them aren’t dead

There would always be plenty of living minds

It’s also not in her interest to wipe an area clean of ALL life even if we make the assumption that that’s somehow within her power to do

[pure inlet]

Fair

So you think Bardoon Hornet etc might still hold out

[dense sonnet]

I don’t know how it would be possible for Rad to infect someone who knew about her

Anyone with that level of dream awareness should be pretty impossible to infect no

[pure inlet]

Well

Who’s the most mentally sound infected (pre infection)

TL probably but he let it happen to an extent

[dense sonnet]

No

[pure inlet]

If Hornet were to see Rad destroy everything she might break

[dense sonnet]

TL was infected in the same way as everything else

[pure inlet]

I don’t think the distinction matters

Was he tricked did he seek her out

He had a strong will and awareness beforehand is what I meant

[dense sonnet]

Well yes there’s no such thing as “letting it happen” he still got manipulated by her

[dense sonnet]

Not really

If he had a strong will he would have resisted and he didn’t have sufficient awareness about her nature to realize it was a shit deal

[dense sonnet]

She’s already destroyed everything

Hornet might die in this scenario but I don’t think she’d get infected

[pure inlet]

Not Midwife

[dense sonnet]

Dude you can’t be fr

Are you saying Midwife is the single thing keeping Hornet from becoming infected

[pure inlet]

This is HK lore we can still talk like she cares about Midwife

[dense sonnet]

Midwife has a mortal lifespan and will die before her anyway

There’s no reason to believe Midwife is Hornet’s anchor

[pure inlet]

I’m joking

[dense sonnet]

I know

I hate you

[pure inlet]

Love you too bro

[dense sonnet]

Anyway

[pure inlet]

Okay but like

If Void dulls magical sensory abilities would it not also dull extension to a degree

[dense sonnet]

What

[pure inlet]

“The more you struggle against infection the more it consumes you” unless you just struggle hard as hell

Couldn’t a free Rad just go beyond that

I would think even a cracking HK still hampers her ability to infect

[dense sonnet]

I don’t think that’s it

[pure inlet]

I know it’s a Hunter platitude

[dense sonnet]

Well what he’s saying is once you let her into your mind there’s nothing you can do to stop her

At that point it doesn’t matter how hard you struggle

Resisting means not letting her in in the first place

It doesn’t mean struggling really hard to the point of overpowering her

THK is obviously a special case and it’s not even infected

[pure inlet]

Fair

No I don’t mean that

[dense sonnet]

I know

[pure inlet]

Being “physically” inside THK dulls her power

[dense sonnet]

I’m covering all my bases

[dense sonnet]

It reduces her range

[pure inlet]

I’m posing this question I don’t believe it

[dense sonnet]

Rad is not weaker inside THK she’s just limited in her ability to traverse the dream expanse

Since her main body is sealed

She can still infect shit but that’s just like her influence reaching out, you can make the argument that if she were free she’d be able to speed things along somewhat but I don’t think it would raise the threshold of things she could infect

I guess it would be harder to ignore her

But resisting isn’t really ignoring it’s telling her to fuck off

[pure inlet]

Yeah

But like I mean if she was screaming in Bardoon’s head constantly even if he’s not gonna give in he’d just become a shell of himself

[dense sonnet]

We don’t really know the mechanics of the infection in enough detail to conclude anything

Like what’s stopping her from doing that now

[pure inlet]

THK

I’m still begging the question

[dense sonnet]

Maybe she is but it’s like an intermittent whisper and once she’s free it’s a constant scream, I don’t know

Maybe once a being resists successfully she just stops being able to reach them

[pure inlet]

That wouldn’t be unbelievable

At least if it takes some measure of energy while sealed

It’s not like Sly has much to selflessly live for before we get NMG and after we save him

[dense sonnet]

I think the bottom line is we just can’t say, narratively her infecting everything once she’s free would still make sense

But that’s also just not really the point

[rich tusk]

Potentially if the kingsoul is just symbolizing union between higher beings, could it have been formed solely out of pale king’s soul?

[dense sonnet]

Well yeah it could be anything we don’t really know how it came into being and neither does WL apparently

But it’s also pretty abstract and idk if it makes much sense to arrive at that conclusion specifically

[pure inlet]

Union leads most people to the idea that it represents both their vast soul powers

WL’s are less explicit

But they’re there if you look

[dense sonnet]

I don’t think it’s just one thing anyway

[pure inlet]

Once I had a dream where after the abyss door closed PV had Kingsoul inside its hand

[rich tusk]

Wait white lady doesn’t know?

[dense sonnet]

This isn’t lore

[pure inlet]

Well she doesn’t know what is at its heart

[dense sonnet]

Heart… Void… Heart of Void… Void Heart…

[pure inlet]

Chills bro chills

[dense sonnet]

Clearly PK’s dialogue after you pick up the White Fragment implies he knew what was at the heart of it unlike his dumb senile wife

[pure inlet]

What even is that

Like is it equivalent to the ||silk hearts||

How do we hear it

[dense sonnet]

Magic telepathy

[rich tusk]

“Our once fractured soul”
Implies it’s made of white lady and pale king?

[pure inlet]

Yes

[dense sonnet]

We dunno that ts even means

Why was it fractured

[pure inlet]

Were the Vessel to break prematurely, that plague would unleash with rage and power built of ages chained.

[dense sonnet]

Does soul mean the charm itself or is it referring to their actual soul having formed it

[pure inlet]

Holy shit

Typo

Like

Yeah this could mean scope

Reads to me as she could just overpower bugs

But confirmation bias

[dense sonnet]

Bro still going on about ts

[pure inlet]

What I went to WL’s dialogue because we’re talking about WL

[dense sonnet]

I already acknowledged both were possible ultimately it’s just a matter of interpretation

[pure inlet]

I forgot she said that

[dense sonnet]

It doesn’t really matter

I hate it when people use this channel for its intended purpose

Go shitpost in ss lore or something we’re done here

[pure inlet]

Fine

Does WL talk half as if we don’t exist and half to us because she doesn’t see us as fully alive

Or wait no

[clear latch]

Whats the lore on the camera in mout fay and the weavenests

[loud crater]

Go to #sk-lore

[fading crane]

What does mean "our once fractured soul"?

Incidentally, what does "soul of Wyrm. Soul of Root. heart of void" mean?

[hot lily]

we don't really know how the charm was made

we don't know if it was synthesized, or was a natural process

[fading crane]

I never think in that, but I believe is other mystery in the list

[split compass]

it's called the Kingsoul and was said to symbolize 'a union between higher beings.'
presumably the PK made it (it's just his soul, not the 'King and Queensoul') and gave it to WL

and then it was fractured by their parting

she remarks that it feels like she's in PK's presence when TK wears it

[loud crater]

The wording of its description kinda makes me think natural. "Holy charm symbolising a union between higher beings..."

[split compass]

the line 'Soul of Wyrm etc.' seems to be a reference to the vessels, possibly the Void Heart, and is PK's true final thought

[fading crane]

Oh, that's true

😯

[hot lily]

not necessarily, considering that symbolism says nothing about a source

[fading crane]

[loud crater]

I interprete it as a byproduct of their union in a way.

[pure inlet]

It was?

I feel like it was no cost too great

Or the …

[split compass]

those others are the dreamnail dialogue left behind on his corpse, so they were a prominent thought of his as he died
the 'Soul of Wyrm etc.' line appears when you obtain the Kingsoul fragment, after any chance you have to interact with his corpse
it's the last line you can get from PK, aside from the birthplace memory stuff which is all from the more distant past

[hollow epoch]

why does only the player have dream nail

[loud crater]

Only one exists as far as we know.

[hollow epoch]

but why does it get the dream nail is it worthy or smth?

[loud crater]

Luck mostly.

It was in the right place at the right time.

[timber snow]

seer believes TK to be the weilder, a figure proposed to use the dream nail by the moth tribe

but yea mostly seems to be a right place right time

[pure inlet]

I don’t think that means it’s meant to be chronologically last

It’s dialogue that’s relevant to the thing at hand like the Birthplace dialogue

If the “union” of PK and WL was the Vessels it makes sense for him to say that

[elfin spindle]

When you Dream Nail a ghost, I like to think that their spirit stays with you on your journey, it’s like taking their honor, soul, and power with you

[sand stump]

thats a fire theory

I always just thought of it deconstructing the soul into its very base form, practically killing the person a second time

[timber snow]

just use their essence in a dream gate

that’ll do the trick

[fading crane]

Speaking of that, why does PK say 'born of God and Void' if WL also participated in the creation of the vessels? He shouldn't say something like "born of gods and void"?

[pure inlet]

Idk

Sounds cooler

You could read it as born of godly nature and void

[fading crane]

Yeah, that have sense

[sand stump]

Because TK is part God and part Void

Even if there are 2 gods in their making it doesn't change that they are only part God

[fading crane]

Curious

[elfin spindle]

It makes sense and feels right tbh, if anyone can help me find evidence of it, I’d appreciate it

[hot lily]

it's important to point out that spirits are mimics, they're not literally the original person

[elfin spindle]

I know, but they are basically the same with the same personality, except they know that they have passed to the afterlife

[hot lily]

that's...not a counterargument

"basically" =/= "is"

[elfin spindle]

It’s close enough

Okay!

Also me and my son are listening to a performance

[hot lily]

cool

[elfin spindle]

:DDD

[paper pulsar]

Guys idk if I missed smth but in the dream no more ending is the infected vessel ok because radiance is gone

[wanton zephyr]

No it probably exploded you don’t even see its skull

[slate palm]

Tiki tiki tiki

[pale pilot]

U do it's in half

[wanton zephyr]

Where
The “infected vessel” here is the hollow knight

[wraith trellis]

??

[hot lily]

Unknown, because we don't see THK's shade anywhere

[mighty dove]

Most likely a shade now in the Abyss but we can't be sure

[pine karma]

xXtruelightXx was killed by [Intentional Species Lore Design]

[indigo venture]

What

[pine karma]

its a joke

[indigo venture]

Dont joke here

[pine karma]

anyway would any other higher beings aside from radi die without worship

[indigo venture]

No?

Radiance doesnt die without worship

[pine karma]

Pretti sure she would

Whatever

[indigo venture]

I mean the closest thing would be TNH, but thatd be mostly because his worshippers keep the ritual going to keep it healthy and strong

[indigo venture]

Its stated otherwise no

[pine karma]

xXtruelightXx was killed and revived by [Intentional Species Lore Design]

[indigo venture]

They'd be locked away in the dream realm without worship, forgotten something is sealing it away forever

Which as seer says could be considered "The only death that matters", but not literal death

[indigo venture]

Stop

[pine karma]

no fuck yoy

Why is my keyboard so damn bad

[indigo venture]

[pine karma]

find it kinda funny that all of the bad stuff in HK happened because radi was a childish fuck about not having worship

[indigo venture]

It was mostly because of the moths

Radiance's revenge plot was selfish yes but it mostly came from wrath towards PK because he "Took away" their followers

Basically a glorified tantrum that involved Hallownest simply because PK was the villain in their eyes

[pine karma]

radi if she could manifest a psychical form killing PK:

[indigo venture]

Maybe, maybe not

Cant really measure both of their strengths

[pine karma]

for context in this message she can do everything she can in her bossfight in her psychical form

pk vs radi pyschical form edition who wins

[indigo venture]

Id gamble on PK ngl

[pine karma]

id gamble on radi

[mighty dove]

Man idk who I'd give that to

[paper pulsar]

Jmm

[hot lily]

they do not have a physical form or body

[hollow epoch]

how did hornet get captured in the opening of silksong

[humble current]

We're never told, also that's a question for #sk-lore

[hollow epoch]

it didnt show up for me but thanks

[sand stump]

whats the topci?

[pine karma]

idk start a new topic dumbass

[sand stump]

whats with the aggression

[indigo venture]

they weird

[indigo comet]

i don't know if anyone has already answered before, but, hot did the knight escape the abyss? And, after that, how did he get to howling cliffs?

[hot lily]

they escaped via an unknown path out of the Abyss, before leaving Hallownest entirely only to come back later

[indigo comet]

what about the vessels in nosk's arena? probably they escaped from another path and maybe the knight is the only one that leave hallownest, i think.

[loud crater]

Some others get out of Hallownest. Greenpath vessel likely did.

[inland onyx]

There could be other vessels that made it out of Hallownest, they might just still be out there in the wastelands beyond

Maybe there's a few still wandering that never made it back to Hallownest

Or died

[indigo comet]

ok all of this makes sense, but, i saw a theory that says the knight has escaped before the pale king chose the hollow knight, what do you think about this?

[willow hazel]

soul sanctum is so fucking good lore-wise even tho gameplay is hell

first time i got in there

the music was practically telling me something fucked up happened here

then the piles of bug journals

and the enemies literally called "Mistake"

[near sequoia]

Doesn't line up with the birthplace cutscene

We see THK being chosen while we're still in The Abyss

[indigo comet]

oh yes i forgot that the theory said that the knight was having a vision, and he never saw that happening

[near sequoia]

Well you dreamnail your own reflection and the Voidheart achievement says you're remembering the past

[hot lily]

that's nonsense

[indigo comet]

i know

[brisk venture]

It's a melancholic and kinda distorted organ cover of the main city of tears theme

So yeah that's just peak lorewriting

[pale pilot]

The shell

[loud crater]

That's The Knight's, they probably mean The Hollow Knight's.

[pale pilot]

Oh

That makes sense

[obtuse terrace]

guys

gravity falls ending and dream no more are pretty similar

[loud crater]

Explain.

[obtuse terrace]

bill was trapped inside stans mind

and then they used a memory gun

so stan sacrificed himself

and he said guess I was useful for something after all

stan is literally the hollow knight

[loud crater]

Ok dude.

Whatever you say.

[carmine abyss]

but stan dosnt die

[wraith trellis]

I don't think Stan literally just explodes

[fading crane]

While the Sanctuary experiments were intended to prevent the Radiance plague, I would like to ask:

1. Is it possible they intended to become HB?
2. Is this "pure focus" similar in any way to the godly focus?

[late parrot]

If hollow knight would get another DLC I would like it to walk to Hallownest before the infection before the creation of the vessels to Talk to the pale king and just see the kingom at it's peak, then you would also be able to fight all fice great knight not in an DLC the real ones it would be so good.

[blissful crest]

what

Oh you mean soul sanctum

[fading crane]

Yeah

[blissful crest]

they intended to become immortal and pure focus is a nothingburger of a term

[fading crane]

I see

[faint steeple]

i think the use of soul was a false hope from the radiance

[hot lily]

correct, it was false blackmail

[fading crane]

Yes

[quartz current]

Wait what's the importance of crystal peak? It seems kinda useless in the story like the hive

[golden wing]

It was the main power source for the kingdom

[quartz current]

Oh makes sense for the amount of mining

[golden wing]

*yh

Yo wait

Why does Kingsoul exist

If charms are formed from people who had dreams then died

[loud crater]

Not all charms are formed like that.

Some are natural, or manufactured.

Some even form from inanimate objects.

[golden wing]

Huh

I was just wondering because it seems like it was obviously formed by the white lady and the pale king because of the halves so it just confused me

Thanks for the info

[fading crane]

Do you believe the Void was once in the dream world?

[loud crater]

No.

Nothing indicates it.

[near sequoia]

wym

[fading crane]

Radiance say "ancient enemy" and "I don't fear you"

[near sequoia]

I'm not sure why you'd assume that's in reference to the entire void as a concept instead of the vessel she is currently fighting

She's been in conflict with the Pale King/his progeny for a long time

[golden wing]

Yo wait you kinda got a point

It kinda lines up

The radiance always stays in the dream world. The void isn’t in the dream world as we can see right now

[fading crane]

Regarding the vessel she fights with: the relationship between them is not old enough to call it an "ancient enemy"

About Pale King: If Rad is fighting a vessel, then it wouldn't make sense for him to refer to the Wyrm if it isn't present in the battle.

[golden wing]

Also the void isn’t a singular person-or really anything for that matter- but still classified as a “higher being”

[fading crane]

No, the Void isn't a HB

[golden wing]

Oh

[fading crane]

Void Given Focus yes

[loud crater]

Vessels are Anceint. They're about as old as Hornet who's old as fuck.

[near sequoia]

Radiance has been chained for ages according to both everyone in Hallownest and Radiance herself

Were the Vessel to break prematurely, that plague would unleash with rage and power built of ages chained.

Vessels are the direct result of the Pale King's influence so that's not off the table either

[fading crane]

But then the phrase I quoted earlier would be for HK, not for the Knight

[near sequoia]

They are the same age and the same species and are both opposed to the Radiance

Made for the exact same purpose

The Knight is an enemy who is ancient its not that deep

[fading crane]

🤔
I'll have to think about it, in which case

[indigo venture]

What's the topic

[fading crane]

It just seems strange to me that, in that case, it continues as "ancient enemy" and not "ancient enemies"

[golden wing]

Yo how old is the Godhome person I forgot their name

[fading crane]

Void and Radiance

[fading crane]

Godseeker?

[golden wing]

Yeah

[indigo venture]

Very

[near sequoia]

I mean we're dreamnailing her but she's talking directly to The Knight ("I do not fear you")

[indigo venture]

Radiance is in fact very fucking afraid

Angrily Frightened

[golden wing]

Did she exist before the Radiance?

[fading crane]

Correct

[indigo venture]

Maybe, probably not

[fading crane]

The Godseeker? We don't know

[loud crater]

The Knight is like a very venomous spider. And Radiance has a Spider allergy.

[indigo venture]

Why did you say this analogy

Where did it come from

[loud crater]

Me.

[indigo venture]

Darn

What is your take on this Horf

"Ancient Enemy" refers to Vessels or The Void in general

Or maybe both

[golden wing]

Yo then she dies to Hornet too

[indigo venture]

Fuckno

[loud crater]

In general Vessels.

[indigo venture]

Hornet is like, a fly in this equation

[indigo venture]

Figured

[golden wing]

Radiance kinda acts like a child. She stays away from scary stuff, and when no one is paying attention to her, she get angry

[indigo venture]

I mean, the former doesn't happen that often

The latter also applies when they are getting attention

[golden wing]

Still that’s also like a child

[fading crane]

What caused the extinction of the moths?

[indigo venture]

A severe case of death

Probably from Radiance

[fading crane]

?

[indigo venture]

Radiance prob did 'em in

[golden wing]

Yeah that’s what I was gonna say

[indigo venture]

Maybe they just imploded

When the Infection began

I mean at least at some point there had to be Moths that realized their error in forgetting Radiance and tried to damage control

[fading crane]

[pure inlet]

Well we don’t know exactly when the Warrior Dreams were around

But Markoth was searching around KE for a “truth long forgotten”

Might have been first wave of infection as the kingdom-allied moths looked for a solution

[heady valve]

How is galien related to lifeblood bc in the godhone area there are lifeblood stuff

[bold night]

Maybe it's a reference to how on top of his arena in deepnest there is a lifeblood cocoon

[sand stump]

It is

[bold night]

It's a symbol of growth and regeneration which fits to how lively galiens arena looks compared to the rest of deepnest

[humble current]

There's lifeblood near where you fight him in deepnest :P

[heady valve]

Oh yea

[shy jetty]

What even is the radiance

Something inside hollow Knight's dreams?

[split compass]

higher being, god and creator of the moths

[bold night]

it was the previous god before the pale king

[split compass]

she was sealed inside the Hollow Knight's dreams to keep her from infecting Hallownest

(it didn't work)

[shy jetty]

Oh so basically its a god?

[bold night]

and thats how the infection was created

[split compass]

yeah, higher beings are the 'gods' of holloworld

[shy jetty]

Does the hollow knight stab himself because of the radiance

Because he wants to die or sum

[split compass]

dying would free the Radiance, they wouldn't want that - their job for ages has been to keep her contained

they're probably attacking themselves in a deluded effort to fight her, since she's essentially trapped inside them

[shy jetty]

When the hollow Knight's soul opened the radiance's eye thing for us to slap it, was it just him stabbing himself again

[split compass]

well, it's them helping - they're just doing something that's actually effective in that case

[shy jetty]

OK thx

[stable raptor]

pale king is not god an he never claimed to be one

bugs just worshipped him

[loud crater]

Yeah he only claimed to have created the entire fucking world. And he is in fact a Higher Being/God.

[stable raptor]

comparing him to radiance or unn hes barely just a smart architect

[warm fulcrum]

saw

[valid rapids]

Comparing him to radiance or unn the pale king is the glorious savior of bugkind expanding minds of all the common folk while radiance and unn only granted intelligence to their creations like a buncha racists

[stable raptor]

pale king glaze

[stable raptor]

[dense sonnet]

He is tho

[dense sonnet]

He didn’t even claim that

People believed “he created the world and everything in it” but given the world they knew was just Hallownest (which they couldn’t exactly leave) and that he was the literal deity who granted them sapience it’s not really strange for them to have arrived at that conclusion

But this also doesn’t mean he didn’t want to be worshipped, he did

It’s just that worship kind of comes naturally when you’re genuinely a god

[dense sonnet]

This is actually crazy lmao

PK has far more examples of his divinity and during the kingdom’s golden age held far more influence than both of them combined

[loud crater]

I’m like 98% sure the Kings Pass Lore Tablets are from him.

[pale pilot]

What are those skulls outside ancestral mound that resemble vessels? (theres 4, 2 breakable other 2 in the background)

[dense sonnet]

Nowhere do those tablets mention having him created the entire world

Higher beings, these words are for you alone.
Beyond this point you enter the land of King and Creator.
Step across this threshold and obey our laws.
Bear witness to the last and only civilisation, the eternal Kingdom.
Hallownest

This one actually implies there is no “world” beyond Hallownest

Calling himself “King and Creator” in that context is accurate

[dense sonnet]

They’re just regular skulls

From common bugs, not vessels

[pale pilot]

could be vessels

[dense sonnet]

No

[pale pilot]

probability

not possibility

[loud crater]

What do they look like?

[pale pilot]

but why do mounds have shells of bugs

[dense sonnet]

They’re not Vessel shells

They don’t look like Vessel shells and there’s no reason for them to be

[dense sonnet]

The Shaman likely decorated his Mound with them

[pale pilot]

right one

[dense sonnet]

He has similar ornaments on his staff and around his neck

[dense sonnet]

Can you get a lower quality image please I can almost see this one

[loud crater]

I mean in theory it could be one, its just super fucking unlikely to be one.

[dense sonnet]

It doesn’t look like a vessel

[pale pilot]

i got it from google

[loud crater]

Does to me.

[pale pilot]

are u FUCKING BLIND

[loud crater]

Sorta.

[dense sonnet]

It’s the wrong colour

[pale pilot]

Vessels had variants on their horns

[dense sonnet]

Look at it closely

Vessels have a very unnatural, pale shell colour

[loud crater]

Not really unnatural but yeah.

[dense sonnet]

It is unnatural in the sense that it’s associated with the pale beings

[pale pilot]

u cant tell the colour from the pic

[dense sonnet]

I have a better picture open

[pale pilot]

If u want go check it out urself

[loud crater]

Some bugs in Pharloom have it iirc.

||Pharlids||

[dense sonnet]

They’re also not that white

Everything aside from vessels etc is slightly off white

Look

Regular bug white is the second colour, the AM skulls and Pharlids are also that colour

Slightly greyish ig

You get the point

Anyway it also makes no sense for there to be a random Vessel skull there when the rest of the skulls around the mound are visibly not Vessel skulls

It’s kind of a pointless thing to include

[pale pilot]

its the lighting

most likeky

but the eyes look diff

[silk sluice]

something i only just noticed is that the mantis lords arena has a 4th throne that was broken (traitor lord's throne) and i LOVE that detail

[floral horizon]

there are many details like that in thegame and indeed its really cool

[fading crane]

I still don't understand what that is.

[trail lynx]

That's the "pole" outside the shaman place

[fading crane]

-_-

[trail lynx]

And the skull looks like one from a vessel

[fading crane]

I know, but I meant the skull

[trail lynx]

Stating the obvios I know

[dawn musk]

So you know how Zote is not a vessel cause he can talk what if Zote was one of the first vessel and escaped to grayroot(pharloom) and got possessed by it

[loud crater]

No.

[dawn musk]

" He named his nail "Life Ender" because names supposedly have power.[5] Unfortunately, because it is made of shellwood, it cannot deal damage.[6]"

[loud crater]

Just because it and a region in Pharloom share a name it doesn't mean the shellwood in life ender came from Pharloom.

[dawn musk]

Well he is called gray Prince Zote

[loud crater]

Bretta made that name up in her fantasy of him.

He only calls himself Zote the Mighty.

[white fractal]

Also it doesnt Mean hes a vessel

[loud crater]

He's not.

[white fractal]

Ik

[dawn musk]

Yeah the vessel thing something else but I'm pretty sure Zote visited pharloom

[loud crater]

The fact that he survives Hallownest alone is a miracle. He'd get ripped apart in Pharloom. And there's no proof for it beyond what his weapon is made out of.

[dawn musk]

But why would team cherry name two things with the same name. Like the amount of attention to detail in SS is crazy

[hot lily]

Shellwood isn't exclusive to Pharloom

[dawn musk]

how did you get that information just wondering

[dense sonnet]

Well the main thing is that ||Nyleth is strongly implied to be part of a species who all do the same general shit||

So the logical conclusion is that there are “Shellwood” forests all over the world

Which is assuming Shellwood (in the way Zote uses it) isn’t just a general term for that kind of material

The alternative would basically be that Pharloom was the only place with trees

[loud crater]

Which is demonstrable untrue as Ancestral Mound has a fuckton of wooden supports.

[candid ginkgo]

just killed hornet in kingdom's edge what the HELL DOES THE KINGS BRAND MEAN

WHY AM I THE NEW ONE

i didnt sign up for this i thought i was killing the bad guys

[indigo venture]

Becuase you have the King's Mark

It makes you King

[dense sonnet]

Just keep playing through the game

[candid ginkgo]

im scared of bugs, yet the only things that have really scared me in this game have been the corpse bugs in deepnest and that horrific worm body i crawled into

[dense sonnet]

You’ll probably get spoiled if you stay here

[candid ginkgo]

yeahh i know i just wanted a small vent :') anyways

[bold night]

he literally says born of god and void

i dont think he is void

[indigo yarrow]

||King's brand is a item that selects you the official king of Hollownest, it allows you to enter the abyss and gain upgrades to your cloak, abysal wraiths, and I think a backstory also to get dark soul.||

[stable raptor]

Oki

[bold night]

[stable raptor]

I forget that always

It's the only time he say he's god ingame

[sand stump]

King Soul directly states that he is
In Birthplace memory he says they are born of God and Void
He gave the people of the kingdom of Hallownest Sapience
He has immense power over soul
He managed to seal away another God
and other feats that he has had

[indigo venture]

He is paired with another Higher Being, plus in P5 he has an intermission that only other Higher Beings have

[stable raptor]

I mean directly said by the pk

[tough jetty]

Topic?

[indigo venture]

It is directly stated by PK plenty

[stable raptor]

In birthplace I guess

I didn't play for alot I kinda forgot about main game

[rugged comet]

Charm: Kingsoul

Holy charm symbolising a union between higher beings. The bearer will slowly absorb the limitless SOUL contained within.

Opens the way to a birthplace.

@megathekindly used /charms category: B-K charm: Kingsoul

[stable raptor]

Mb bro

[cursive salmon]

So technacly the knight becomes king of hallownest

[indigo yarrow]

Basically, yes

It would consider him as king due to the brand

[cursive salmon]

Ohh ok

[glossy blade]

whats going on?

[sand stump]

Nothin much I don't think

[loud crater]

[dawn musk]

Your probably right but I also wanted to say that the white lady is Basically a tree

and there does not seem to be Anny Shell Wood forrest nearby so why would the snail Shama use a bunch of rare wood just for some random supports

[indigo venture]

They are a root

[split compass]

some kind of plant creature

[fading crane]

Characters like Vespa and Bardoon say the word "nature". At least for me, they're referring to Radiance.
But what does this expression really mean? Is Rad a force of nature, or something more?

[rugged comet]

Bardoon - General - Reacting to Void Heart

Ohhhmmmm... Tiny thing... It evolves beyond that Wyrm. Such union in a single being. A strength before unseen. Would it too challenge nature? It could perhaps defeat it.

@nostor_10. used /npcs misc name: Bardoon category: General dialogue: Reacting to Void Heart

Vespa - Hive - Exhausted dialogue

To rail against nature is folly. All things must accept an end.

@nostor_10. used /npcs spirits name: Vespa category: Hive dialogue: Exhausted dialogue

[indigo venture]

In Bardoon's case yeah it's probably Implying radiance?

Vespa just seems to be referring to death

Regardless Void is just often seen as a strength that directly challenged the "Normal"

[fading crane]

I agree with that, but we come back to the same question: why is Rad described as "nature"?

[indigo venture]

Well they are very strong

[fading crane]

Unn, the Heart... are they also described that way?

[humble current]

Neither are as strong as rad

[fading crane]

Void Given Focus?

[brisk venture]

That's shade lord

Which we see rip radiance apart so obv it's stronger than her

[fading crane]

Yeah, but is described as nature too?

[brisk venture]

It's not described anywhere outside godhome

[indigo venture]

Void itself is

it's spoken to be above times like time

[fading crane]

So why Radiance is described as it?

[indigo venture]

Thats un-unified void

[sand stump]

What's the topic?

[fading crane]

Where?

[indigo venture]

Then there's Unified Void, And VGFocus is Unifed Void but stronger

[indigo venture]

Give me a sec

[fading crane]

Radiance and the word "nature"

[fading crane]

.

[sand stump]

What about nature? Like ones nature or mother nature

[sand stump]

Ah

[fading crane]

The original question is: why is Radiance described as "nature"? Other Higher Beings like Unn, White Lady and Nightmare Heart are not described like that

[sand stump]

From what I get Vespa is referring to the natural order of things and how the Pale King had attempted to break this by creating an eternal kingdom

[fading crane]

😯

I like that interpretation

[sand stump]

I believe that's because the Radiance was seen as Light for the longest time and acts as the Sun, especially with how it's seen in DNM and EtV

It probably is very close to being Light itself, but light still exists without it

[sand stump]

It's basically how some people would say a God IS and not a God Controls

[fading crane]

Rad is made of essence (light), but it is not light incarnate.

[sand stump]

Yeah, but it would be seen as Light incarnate

We know it isn't, but everyone else has only seen the Radiance through infected eyes or through the perspectives of the Moths

[sand stump]

The Radiance itself also just glows bright as fuck

I mean if I saw that shit as a citizen of Hallownest I'd 100% think that thing is a force of nature

[indigo venture]

PK is brighter

[fading crane]

Now that I think about it, the Pale King and the storm gods belong to a species of giant insects. They would also fall into the category of "forces of nature." At least for me.

[sand stump]

I know.

[sand stump]

Plus the fact that they are the heart of an entire disease gives more leverage to the idea that they are a force of nature because diseases are a part of nature

[fading crane]

😯

That's true

[still gulch]

How so?

We never seen him repel the void. It just made him invulnerable to void. Radiance could repel the void far easier as seen in the fight

[hexed quest]

What happened to Pure Vessel if he's supposed to be freed from the infection in the true ending of Hollow Knight?

[obtuse terrace]

is soul master infected

[bold night]

yes he is

he has the orange eyes and everything

he tried to combat against it but failed

[bold night]

theres a probability he lived since the radiance inside him died and we can see in the final cutscene that hornet is going to fight someone at the black egg

that someone is probably the hollow knight himself since he has a pure nail

[split compass]

they're just hanging around Hallownest somewhere

wondering what happened to Hornet

[silk tinsel]

would i be right in assuming this is the birthplace of hornet

[humble current]

No

That's an incomplete seal of binding

[shrewd jacinth]

Why does City Of Tears not have trams but deepnest and ancient basin do

[sweet beacon]

pale king spent all the geo 🥹

[shrewd jacinth]

oh

on saws?

[sweet beacon]

yes

[shrewd jacinth]

ok then

[sweet beacon]

and spikes too

[shrewd jacinth]

yeah i noticed..

[silk tinsel]

there's also stag stations

[raw snow]

Connect to where tho

[shrewd jacinth]

but didnt the stag say that people arent using him for a long time and they use trams??

[raw snow]

City bugs stay in the city

Crossroad is a trade hub
Dirt mouth is a smol town

[silk tinsel]

i don't think trams ever put stags out of business

i could be wrong though

i think the old stag is just offended by trams for trying to imitate the ability of a stag

[silk tinsel]

so what is a seal of binding exactly and what makes this one unfinished

[raw snow]

Its tucked away in 3 secret locations

[shrewd jacinth]

So is geo an ore or a made payment system

by the pale king

[raw snow]

Like the dollar bill its a currency

[shrewd jacinth]

BUT its also an ore??

[raw snow]

Yes its dried bug or smt

[shrewd jacinth]

.

oh

so how did pale ore exactly appear

[raw snow]

Natural rare ore

[shrewd jacinth]

oh

[raw snow]

Idk how it found its way to the 6 locations

[shrewd jacinth]

is Hollow Knight/Silksong like bug size or life human size?

[raw snow]

I assume bug size

[shrewd jacinth]

cool

[raw snow]

You can have your head cannons

[shrewd jacinth]

and what the hell is that liquid that restores all ur masks and soul

like in hot springs

[raw snow]

Liquid soul?

[shrewd jacinth]

how

[raw snow]

Its just up to interpretation

Magical liquid

[shrewd jacinth]

i mean i noticed that the soul in the UI actually IS a liquid

hm

also are masks like actual HP in HK or are they just inerpretations in-game (Like is it just a game thing or do HK bugs also understand it)

[raw snow]

Uh maybe just a shield?

Cause you are invincible when you lose one

Seal to hold the vessel together

[shrewd jacinth]

why do small bugs that the bugs in the start of the game create deal the same damage as some of Hollow Knight's attacks

also wouldnt it be cool is The Hollow Knight had an attack that deals like

3 masks

[raw snow]

Uh cause game logic

[shrewd jacinth]

oh

[raw snow]

0.1 retention rate

[shrewd jacinth]

also

how does contact damage even work

some enemies actually have some sort os spikes

but some of them just

arent really

painful

[raw snow]

Knight fragile (except fall damage apparently)

[shrewd jacinth]

if he's fragile then why does hornet not get like 2 masks of contact damage against every single enemy in silksong

he's literally built like a tank

brb

back

[humble current]

Okay wait how far are you into the game? (I don't wanna spoil)

[dire wren]

I like to think the PoP (path of pain) was a trial for the pure vessel to see if he was ready.

[warm fulcrum]

It was

[dire wren]

yeah

[warm fulcrum]

probs plays into the (no will to break)

[dire wren]

I got weather mask recently

after like 20 hrs of full binding pantheons

[hollow sorrel]

Stop giving team cherry ideas bro🥀

[shrewd jacinth]

too bad its already in ss

[hollow sorrel]

Fr🥀

[hollow sorrel]

I know😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

But imagine hk3 has 3. Masks dmg by a small worm

I'm ded

[shrewd jacinth]

im crine

[warm fulcrum]

4 dmg by niche attacks

[hollow sorrel]

🥀 💦 💦

[warm fulcrum]

Is this that flower prank where is sprays water in yo face

[hollow sorrel]

What😭

It means I'm crying with my head down?

[warm fulcrum]

How would I know that

[hot lily]

false

[hot lily]

it wasn't, it never physically existed

[obtuse terrace]

I think its just ragebait

[tough jetty]

is the everbloom stronger with Hornet because she isn't void, therefore it doesn't hate her like the Knight?

because everblooms and void don't coexist together that well

[loud crater]

#sk-lore question.

[tough jetty]

oh oops

[silk tinsel]

i've done pretty much everything outside of godhome ending (i think that exists anyway)

[humble current]

Yeah it does exist lol. A seal of binding is a seal used all over Hallownest as barriers, shields, or even to protect memories. The seal is believed to have been originally designed by the weavers, which is why an incomplete seal is found in their den. (Another example of a seal of binding is blocking the exit during the Hollow Knight's boss fight (also check out the seal of binding journal entry that you get from beating PoP))

[silk tinsel]

oh i didn't know there was a journal entry from pop

[floral mist]

im just gonna

[glad sundial]

O-ok 👍
0-0

[floral mist]

<@&283547423706447872>

ill leave that there with ye

[brisk venture]

teaaa

What happened

[floral mist]

spam

[brisk venture]

Awh

[floral mist]

yea

[floral mist]

whos sending and deleting messages? i can see that theres messages coming in but then theyre gone

[frosty jewel]

Bots

They immediatly get deleted but that's enough for discord to see one came in

[floral mist]

theres another in art

sorry for the ping

forgot to click the button

[frank glacier]

<@&283547423706447872>

[hexed summit]

How are you muted

And talking

[primal bridge]

So I unlocked the lifeblood room in godhome and I just went up to p5 and the lifeblood vines are invading what does this mean lore wize

[pure inlet]

You let the lifeblood creature in

[primal bridge]

Not the Creacher 😭

[native cave]

Is this The Radiance or just a random dead moth

The one who gives you the Dream Nail

[sand stump]

That's seer

[open bramble]

Wait i remember the seer asking how you've gotten it?

[sand stump]

I think she's asking about how you got in that dream in the first place

[open bramble]

ah makes sense

[shrewd jacinth]

IM wondering what kind of boss would hornet need to like

[vapid pewter]

???

[shrewd jacinth]

in the sealed siblings ending

hornet gets sealed

[young rain]

she becomes a dreamer

[shrewd jacinth]

im wondering where the hell would she even be in the first place

[vapid pewter]

i dont understand...

[shrewd jacinth]

dreamer

yea

where is her like

corps

e

if its not in

[vapid pewter]

within the black egg tempole

[shrewd jacinth]

the black egg temple

[young rain]

in the black egg temple

[shrewd jacinth]

so if the infection spreads AGAIN its just impossible to stop it?? 😭

[young rain]

think of it like locking your keys in your car

[vapid pewter]

yup

[young rain]

yes

[shrewd jacinth]

wow

[vapid pewter]

sucks, doesnt it?

[brisk venture]

Yes

And it will spread again

Because of hornet

[young rain]

how abt ending 1

[shrewd jacinth]

where we get sealed??

yeah the infection would spread again im sure

[young rain]

is the temple still openable

[shrewd jacinth]

oh.,

shit

[brisk venture]

I think so, it has no seals

[shrewd jacinth]

i dont think so?????

[vapid pewter]

welll, you know the knight is the true pure vessel, since it has no emotions

[shrewd jacinth]

idk

[young rain]

makes sense

[shrewd jacinth]

what if they do

[vapid pewter]

thk was not a true hollow knight

[shrewd jacinth]

and we just never bothered

to think about it

[vapid pewter]

idk

[shrewd jacinth]

but HOW would anyone open it??

[vapid pewter]

well he kills without a second thought, and does not look like any emotions are showing or existing

[shrewd jacinth]

it got closed even though it has no seals

so like

[vapid pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/madagscar-penguins-kaboom-gif-9833865

[brisk venture]

Like how we opened it

[shrewd jacinth]

but there are no seals

[vapid pewter]

bye

[brisk venture]

It'll just function like a normal door

[shrewd jacinth]

we opened it by killing the dreamers

[shrewd jacinth]

o . h.

so anyone could just enter and fucking kill the knight and the infection would just spread again????????

[young rain]

the dreamers are locks

yes

[brisk venture]

The infection would spread regardless

[shrewd jacinth]

oh so

any ending except for the radiance ones are

[brisk venture]

Because the entire point of the game is that the vessels are not pure

[brisk venture]

Pretty much

In hornet one it'll be accelerated

[shrewd jacinth]

how

[brisk venture]

In thk ending it'll be slow

[brisk venture]

Because the knight cares for hornet at that point

[shrewd jacinth]

why does it accelerate

OH.

[brisk venture]

You got to p5?

[shrewd jacinth]

no

wait

i think i just

remembered about a moment in the game that proves that

the knight isnt pure

when they dream nail themselves

there ARE dreams

so like

[bold night]

like the egg?

[shrewd jacinth]

they have a mind to think

[shrewd jacinth]

yes

[brisk venture]

Not exactly dreams

It's a memory

And there is no dream essence

[shrewd jacinth]

oh

[bold night]

yeah but doesnt it require a mind to think

[shrewd jacinth]

didnt the pale king say "No mind to think"

but they DO think about the memory

[bold night]

a mind to think and remember that memory?

[bold night]

exacttly

[shrewd jacinth]

so what if they do have feelings and when they enter the abyss it reminds them of that moment

[bold night]

good point

in the dream no more ending the knight has the will to dream nail the hollow knight instead of killing it

[brisk venture]

Nosk literally turns into hornet in p5

[young rain]

-"...It refuses to trade...? It has a will... all Its own." -Steel Soul Jinn

"You take part in the Ritual, yet I sense you truly have no Master. Is it so?" -Brumm.

These dialogues show that TK acts on their own free will, and is not controlled by the player themself.

-Before the events of the game TK escaped the Abyss, left Hallownest, trained, and returned, showing free will in the choices they make outside of the players control.

-"An emptiness that was hidden within, now unconstrained. Unifies the void under the bearer's will." -Void Heart.

This shows TK has a will of their own since they control the void, not anybody else.

-Sitting with Quirrel shows them acting on their own will, because Quirrel does not ask them to sit at Blue Lake, TK chooses to sit.

-# From Thommie

[bold night]

yes he also chooses to sit to listen to marissa

[split compass]

PK's speech probably isn't about literal requirements

the whole plan was to put Rad in a vessel's mind, so he wouldn't want a vessel that literally didn't have one

he talks in elaborate, fancy ways, so he's alluding to some other idea

White Lady says that the Hollow Knight was 'tarnished by an idea instilled' and the Knight is 'free of such blemishes'

as meba noted, TK doesn't have any dream essence when they use the dream nail on themselves in the Birthplace

sets them apart from other Void entities like THK or the Kingsmoulds, which do have dream essence

pretty interesting, I think

[bold night]

its interesting yes

if we take silksongs ending the knight literally ||blah blah blah blah blah my bad spoiler police||

[vapid pewter]

IT IS NOT THE KNIGHT

IT IS THE PURE VESSEL SMALL FORM

[bold night]

it is the knight and its siblings united

the lord of shades

isnt it?

[vapid pewter]

look at the horns bro

[bold night]

when the knight defeats the radiance he becomes void given form which is a bit different looking than him

especially different in absrad

[vapid pewter]

I'm convinced it is the pure vessel

[bold night]

look at the animation when youre getting the abyss shriek

[vapid pewter]

yh?

[bold night]

the knight curls up into a ball and becomes that entity

similar at least

[vapid pewter]

idk...

[bold night]

[vapid pewter]

[spark crest]

The thing is, the knight actually does have emotions. They help people out or not based on their own moral judgement, which means they have free will, and that's one of the things that "tarnished" the hollow knight. So then what really are the requirements for a "hollow" vessel? is such a thing even possible? And more importantly, did the pale king sell it as a permanent solution to the radience when in fact, it's only temporary? the knight did bond with half of hallownest, how are they supposed to be emptyer than the hollow knight who only had one core memory??

Also, i haven't been sleeping from the lack of an answer to this: Is the radience truly villanous? if so, is the pale king too? if not, why? What makes one better than the other?

Also, would Grandmother silk and the radience be bffs or enemies and could a bug be infected and haunted at the same time?

[brisk venture]

No sk stuff

Spoiler tag it

[brisk venture]

No lol

just go replay the dream no more ending

And etv

[loud crater]

Radiance is absolutely villainous. Pale King isnt a villain.

[loud crater]

Radiance would leave ||GMS|| alone so long as ||GMS|| doesn't actively fuck with her.

[bold night]

My bad

[loud crater]

If ||GMS|| did something like fuck with Radiance's followers or tried to invade Moth lands then chances are it'd be Infection 2.0 time.

[near sequoia]

Rad was forgotten by her followers (which would spell death for her) so partially out of an attempt to live and partly out of malice she started forcing her way into the minds of bugs in an attempt to enslave them
Eventually she became way more malicious and her goal atm is basically to cause as much mayhem as possible

Everything the Pale King did was basically in response to Rad and an attempt to stop her from destroying the region

[bold night]

Basically revenge

[near sequoia]

In other words the Vessel project was a trolley problem he was forced into, so I don't really think it makes sense to call him a villain but for Rad absolutely

[brisk venture]

and yet you didnt spoiler tag/delete it