hk-lore

[crimson vector]

Is there any dialogue or description that really proves this?

[sand stump]

90% sure it's from one of the Shamans

[stone pilot]

hi

[smoky wyvern]

theres more than one shaman u meet in game?

[indigo venture]

Ye

Theres the one in Crystalized Mound

And the one in Soul Sanctum

And the one on Fog Canyon

And the one burried in Resting Grounds

[smoky wyvern]

ive really not been to soul sanctum for a long time so idk. fog canyon howling wraiths i somehow got before entering fog canyon in my first runthrough (im not done with that yet - so i dont have a second run). resting grounds one i js didnt know

[lethal wren]

why does the pure vessel break his Armour

[tiny kraken]

Aura

[lethal wren]

ok

[sand stump]

Could be restraining and limiting some of his movements
Or it's for Aura

[lethal wren]

ok

[solemn cloak]

3 DAYS UNTIL JOJO'S BIZZARE ADVENTURE STEEL BALL RUN

[deft plinth]

Does anyone know if there's any lore behind the weaver that's still alive in hallownest?

[hot lily]

<@&283547423706447872> memer

[hot lily]

no memes

[sand stump]

I don't believe theres any lore specifically tailored to that weaver, so they'd just fall under Weaver lore

with the most unique thing being that they didn't give into the Infection, which does give a chance for other weavers to be alive

[deft plinth]

I've just always wondered why there's just one like wouldn't it be cool if there was an actual weaver town

[sand stump]

Well there could be

we just don't see it in the game

[deft plinth]

I mean yeah hallownest is probably much bigger than what we can see in game

[sand stump]

yeah, it is

[indigo venture]

Thatd just be a den no?

[deft plinth]

Yeah I guess

[autumn dome]

My best guess was that it probably was to train Hornet on Silk seeing how the Weavers returned to Pharloom when the infection occured

[indigo venture]

||Vespa trained Hornet||

[loud crater]

||||

[autumn dome]

Ah, yes, Vespa's thread storm technique

Hasn't used it since the heian era

[loud crater]

That’s a technique Hornet learned from the Weavers.

But, sadly(according to me) ||Vespa did actually train Hornet with her Needle and stuff.||

[indigo venture]

Sadly?

Since when is it sad we get confirmed lore and shi

[remote adder]

How did a worm (pale king) made kids with a tree (the white lady)

[indigo venture]

They bred

[remote adder]

How

[indigo venture]

By breeding, as in, sex

[remote adder]

Not that

[indigo venture]

Why do I need to explain what breeding is

[indigo venture]

Then?

[loud crater]

||I always used Three Queens theory as an example of scrapped lore… now it’s canon:(||

[indigo venture]

Now you need another example of scrapped lore

[loud crater]

PK is like Zeus where he can have a child with any kind of creature I guess.

[indigo venture]

Like No Eyes

[remote adder]

ITS A TREE AND A WORM

[loud crater]

Wyrm*

[remote adder]

OK WYRM

[autumn dome]

I did it sorry

[remote adder]

What

[indigo venture]

And?

And shes mostly a root

[remote adder]

I am groot

[indigo venture]

[loud crater]

No, you are Hornet.

[indigo venture]

You are the Vessel

[loud crater]

A Vessel*

[indigo venture]

Horf

I need your inpt on a thing relating to vessels

[loud crater]

What?

[indigo venture]

Do you think the Vessels are the same thing as the Original Children or not

I personally see them as two different entities

[loud crater]

They’re different.

Vessels are children of the Pale King and White Lady that have had their insides replaced by Void.

Inherently different.

Like Void puppets almost.

[autumn dome]

What

[remote adder]

Stupid please say what

[remote adder]

What

[autumn dome]

I don’t know what you are talking about maybe you should like

Check it out smh

[tardy hollow]

Potato

[round bough]

Dont shitpost in lore channels

[stable raptor]

this only affects thier insides tho

if the void wasent involved i doubt thier bodies will change

[indigo venture]

Their bodies yes

[stable raptor]

maybe be more like hornet

[indigo venture]

what about the being that once inhabited the bodies though?

As in the one who Imprinted the void with their will to create the Shades

That's what I argue is inherently different between Original Children of PK and WL and Vessels.

As White Lady says, The Abyss is where "It died"

I take it as where her actual children died, and created the Shades with their will

[stable raptor]

i dont think of the "it died" as literal ngl

[indigo venture]

I do honestly

It makes sense

The children kinda fucking died

[sand stump]

whats the tipic?

[stable raptor]

it could mean that what they were supposed to be died, and now they are no more than empty shells of void

[stable raptor]

inside vessel

[sand stump]

Its their shade

What else is there to talk about?

[stable raptor]

and what if the void didnt exist inside vessels

[indigo venture]

Well they wouldn't be Vessels

[sand stump]

Normal insides

[indigo venture]

They'd just be the original children of PK and WL

[sand stump]

they wouldn't be vessels

they would have whatever they were supposed to have

[indigo venture]

It did die though

is the thing

The Vessels weren't always hollow, there was a Fetus inside the egg, before said Fetus got voided out

My take is that the fetus died and then Imprinted void with their will, thus shades.

[sand stump]

yeah, thats probably how it is

[stable raptor]

i think it died partially ig

[indigo venture]

How tf does one die Partially

[stable raptor]

bro its a video game 🙏

[sand stump]

I think they mean that their will survived but their body died

[indigo venture]

I mean if you mean as in "Well the shades ARE Imprinted void by THEIR will. I'd argue the Children and Shade are on in the same"

[indigo venture]

A copy of the will, I argue

I think that's my main point here

[sand stump]

Its like how people aren't truly dead till their memory is gone

[indigo venture]

Shades (Thus Vessels) aren't the proper children of PK and WL

The proper Children are long gone

That's what I've been trying to convey in this debate

[sand stump]

yeah, they're just copies, they could be perfect copies, but even then they're still just copies

[indigo venture]

Like Essence Spirits and Shi' ye

[stable raptor]

i mean we could say that vessels still have affection to thier parents no ?

[sand stump]

Well, the Vessels can feel some sort of feelings so Yeah, they could

[indigo venture]

Somewhat yeah

And?

I don't see why that matters

[sand stump]

But the Vessels never knew PK(apart from thk) and only knew WL through TK and THK

[stable raptor]

thats what i mean by died partially, yes they are void from the inside, but still they have emotions before the void took over

[indigo venture]

Eh

I don't agree

I think the emotions are the results of the imprinted void more than anything

[stable raptor]

maybe

after all we dont have much info

[indigo venture]

To what

[sand stump]

I think they mean about Void imprinting on things

[loud crater]

Nah, really? If you remove the thing that changed them then they likely wouldn’t change? Who would have guessed!

[timber snow]

the said they wouldn’t change visually, which is true the vessels would still look like themselves
maybe a more put together cloak that’s not tattered? but yea without void their body would stay the same
it’s the insides thst got all messed up

[timid night]

if pale king knows the future then did he know that hallownest would fall

idk about that part for pale king knowing the future but i heard it from many

[hot lily]

disagree

it is implied that when a mind is assimilated to the void, it's merged into whatever was already there

[indigo venture]

We dunno' how Foresight functions in HK

[indigo venture]

Yes it's stated in game he has Foresight

[sand stump]

perhaps, not too sure

I'm just thinkin that they're copies

[fresh quartz]

Am i the only one who thinks that nosk is, at least in part, a heavily mutated vessel?

[indigo venture]

Umh

Yes

Heavily

I don't see how you came to this conclusion

[fresh quartz]

I think add, autism, adhd, and being bored are responsible

[indigo venture]

Well I think I can safely say your wrong

[fresh quartz]

Thought i was wrong there

I think a big part of it was this

[indigo venture]

Uh huh

[fresh quartz]

In case you somehow can’t tell, the arrow is pointing to the giant bulb of infectious “orange juice” that makes up 20% of Nosk’s body mass

[fresh quartz]

Hey, autism, add, and adhd can make someone come to ridiculous conclusions, especially when bored

[indigo venture]

Well umh

For one Nosk is a one to one of The Knight. If it was an mutated vessel why do they look so alike

Second is the Journal Entry that mentions how Nosk is one of the many Creatures in Deepnest that copy appereances of Bug's Loved Ones

[fresh quartz]

Plus i didnt really believe it myself, i just rushed to post that before i forgot so its mostly just poor choice of wording

[indigo venture]

Third is the many corpses in Nosks's Lair talking about seeing their loved ones before beating eaten

[indigo venture]

I see

[fresh quartz]

Yeah, thats a pretty big oversight on my part

[obtuse terrace]

why didnt the pale king just kill the radiance himself

[sand stump]

Whats the topic?

[obtuse terrace]

isnt he a pale being while the radiance isnt one

[sand stump]

He couldn't

[sand stump]

That doesn't really matter

Pale Being is just a subsection of Higher Being

[obtuse terrace]

why

hed lose?

[sand stump]

The Radiance is an Essence Being, PK isn't

[sand stump]

He didn't have access to the Dream Realm iirc

Honestly, I don't know why

he probably couldn't see a good future where he went to fight

so he took the Gamble

[obtuse terrace]

send the white lady

[sand stump]

what??

If he didn't see a good future with fighting then why would he send the love of his life?

[obtuse terrace]

dows she have a backstory

[sand stump]

With that being the Vessel Plan

[sand stump]

Yes

[indigo venture]

What is this topic

[sand stump]

They were asking why didn't PK just fight the Radiance and then they asked why he didn't just send White Lady

[indigo venture]

Erm

Because he couldn't for one

Would probably lose for second, as powerful as PK was

Plus if Radiance isn't trapped in The Hollow Knight they can very well just go "Fuck this shit I'm out" And teleport to a random dream

[sand stump]

Yeahh

Like, I'd say he could definitely do a good amount of damage to the Radiance

but would inevitably lose just cuz the Radiance is stronger in dreams, not weakened at all and can teleport across dreams at will

[indigo venture]

I'd argue Void is the only real thing that can kill The Radiance

[sand stump]

Yeah

Plus, not even the Void by itself can kill the Radiance

it needed to be harnessed, focused and then it needed a Radiance that was weakened by the Seals and a fight with TK

[vale plaza]

good point what else is finna kill it

[lusty plinth]

Sending WL to fight Radiance

[indigo venture]

😭

[hot lily]

Void can only kill Rad if it's unified

[sand stump]

I didn't say void can just kill the Radiance 😭

I listed the multiple factors that allowed it to be able to kill the Radiance

[hot lily]

I was agreeing

[sand stump]

aah

mb

[tiny kraken]

This is mostly due to her lacking a physical form imo, in Silksong ||we see that un-unified void can slowly smother a god of similar power||

[hot lily]

Difference is that ||GMS doesn't have a resistance/immunity to normal Void||

[indigo venture]

And that ||GMS exists||

[lusty plinth]

Why do we say this again

[tiny kraken]

I would argue neither does the Radiance, I genuinely don’t see why something similar wouldn’t happen to her if she had a physical form. Because she’s only in the dream realm it takes different circumstances to kill her than a god with physical form. Dumping Grimm into the Abyss wouldn’t kill the Nightmare Heart, for example.

[hot lily]

because their halo prevents Void from sustaining a grip on them/meaningfully damage them

[hot lily]

Radiance clearly does because even using regular Void attacks doesn't actually kill them

[lusty plinth]

This is equivalent to GMS spinning a protective cocoon

[tiny kraken]

Like what? The Knight’s spells? I don’t think those would be enough to kill ||GMS either. She’s fully drowned in the void and holds out for a pretty long time||

Or are you just referring to the Radiance being sealed in a vessel? Because that goes back to my point about her not having physical form.

[hot lily]

||Then by that logic Radiance wouldn't die instantly upon being consumed by the Void, and yet that's exactly what happens, as shown by the DNM/ETV endings||

[lusty plinth]

Or the repellent of light works a lot less effectively than a physical barrier of silk

[tiny kraken]

How does that follow? I’m not necessarily saying a united void isn’t stronger than the void in its base form, just that it’s the Radiance’s unique existence as a non-corporeal being that makes it basically impossible to kill in the same way as ||GMS.|| There’d be no way to kill Radiance with an un-unified void because there’d be no way to bring it into the Hollow Knight’s mind in the same way.

I hate typing on a phone lmao

[sand stump]

whats the topci?

[tiny kraken]

Basically my argument is that the void needs to be unified to kill Rad because otherwise it couldn’t even reach her in the dream realm, NOT because it’s necessarily too weak to kill her in the same way it does ||GMS||

[tiny kraken]

Could an un-unified void kill the Radiance?

[sand stump]

No

Whats the argument for un-unified void?

[tiny kraken]

@sand stump

My argument is that un-unified void is strong enough to kill any god in the right circumstances, the Radiance is just uniquely shielded because she doesn’t have a physical form, un-unified void couldn’t reach her.

[sand stump]

||Alright, you are showing how void is killing a God that has no resistances to Void and even with no resistances, this God is able to survive direct contact with it and survive long enough to sprout up a large cocoon to protect her and her daughter ||
Now you want to say that it can kill a God that emits the very thing that can stop the Void from working? If a few random lumaflies in the Abyss can quell the whole Void then a Literal God of Light can stop it from getting near it

[sand stump]

It doesn't matter that she doesn't have a physical form, the Void can't touch her anyway

[lusty plinth]

Until she runs out of power

[sand stump]

She naturally emits this amount of light

She won't run out of power 😭

[tiny kraken]

This has never made any sense, if all it took was a god’s glowing aura to quell the void, the pale king would not feel threatened by its existence. Everblooms would not be needed to combat the void, as the White Lady says.

[faint sundial]

wait

is grimm

stronger than any guards in silksong

[tiny kraken]

The idea that void can’t even touch the Pale King or the Radiance is absurd

[tiny kraken]

He’s a vessel for a literal god, so I’d say so

[lusty plinth]

Void loves attacking Soul which glows the same as PK

[faint sundial]

ih

uh*

isnt

grimm

likr a fraction

like*

of the power of the gods?

power

[sand stump]

The Pale King wasn't threatened by the Void, he actively WORKED with it.
The Pale King simply understood and respected the fact that it had the Power to harm Great Powers. Not that it could harm him himself
||Everblooms were needed by beings who DIDN'T emit light like PK or the Radiance, so for White Lady and Hornet the Everbloom is the only defence again't Void, unless you just want to keep it down||

[lusty plinth]

White Lady glows so bright lmao

[sand stump]

Grimm is the avatar fo the Nightmare heart

[faint sundial]

oh

whats

nightmare heart again

i forgot

[sand stump]

The other Essence Higher Being

[faint sundial]

oh

OH

right

i forgot

thanks

for letting me know

[lusty plinth]

@sand stump

[sand stump]

https://tenor.com/view/betrayal-phone-gif-14434052482010029343

[tiny kraken]

The PK literally calls the void the “power opposed”, and all pale beings emit a glow, even if it’s not as bright as his. Again, this concept that Void couldn’t possible harm him is utterly absurd.

[sand stump]

We do know that PK glew brighter than this right?

[faint sundial]

glew

[sand stump]

Glew

wait is that not a word?

Glowed doesn't sound right

[indigo venture]

Glown

[lusty plinth]

It hurt to look at him sometimes apparently

[sand stump]

that sounds good

[indigo venture]

I mean PK's glow is so bright even his afterglow would likely last a lot

[lusty plinth]

But that was probably when he was trying to brightnessmog Radiance considering we can see him just fine in Birthplace memory

[indigo venture]

My personal favorite theory is that the "Dark Zone" of White Palace, aka Throne Room, is like that because JUST NOW PK's residual glow is going away

[sand stump]

Which is probably true

[indigo venture]

eh

I dunno'

[sand stump]

It has A possibility of being true

but it does make sense

[sand stump]

"brightnessmog" is fucking crazy 😭

[lusty plinth]

Also hornet does glow

A bit

[indigo venture]

Radiance's peak is PK's casual glow

[sand stump]

tf

I did NOT click that gif

[indigo venture]

No GIF's allowed

[tiny kraken]

||Also this is what the WL says about Everblooms: “Witness, the first light. The only means we possess to resist that void with which our family is forever linked.”||
If you want to interpret this really weirdly to fit with the idea that the PK couldn’t even be touched by Void, the “we” refers to her and Hornet. But in the context of that sentence it’s blatantly obvious she means Pale Beings.

[indigo venture]

Powdered's spirit still here to make sure

[indigo venture]

Oh my where is this dialogue from

I've never seen it before

[lusty plinth]

Holy silksong

[indigo venture]

Swilsong!?

In my #hk-lore

Spoiler tag this, oh my my, I'm having a heart stop

[lusty plinth]

We need an exorcism

[sand stump]

||hmm maybe she says "The only means we possess" Because PK is no longer alive and is actually sealed away in a place no one can get to him?||

[tiny kraken]

Blowing my shit smoove off, fine I’ll spoiler tag it

[waxen oyster]

what

[lusty plinth]

Delicate flower fucking evaporates void this is very different to strong light which only quells it temporarily

[tiny kraken]

Again this feels like such a stretch just to fit with an idea you want to stick with, it’s very clear they did not mean it that way

[sand stump]

There are obviously other means of stopping the Void

[lusty plinth]

WL could probably do it

She has strong dream powers

[sand stump]

The Flower is not the fucking holy grail

[sand stump]

You are literally denying a given and stated FACT in the Game to twist it into "yeah, un-unified Void can kill a Literal god of Light"

[sand stump]

It was a dream purposely Sealed away to not let anyone in

[tiny kraken]

LMFAO

“Stated fact” no where in the game is it stated that the void could not kill, harm, or even touch the Pale King.

[lusty plinth]

WL is also good with seals

[tiny kraken]

His aura wasn’t an invincibility shield

[sand stump]

No I'm talking about the fact that god damned LUMAFLIES keep down the Void

Take a slight look over at the Abyss

[tiny kraken]

Literally no one is denying that’s a thing

[sand stump]

Then why on earth do you think that un-unified void can kill a God of Light?

[lusty plinth]

And what happens when PK gets tired of constantly outputting glow

[sand stump]

when the Void is kept back by lumaflies?

my brother in christ

PK naturally glows that bright

Do you get tired from constantly breathing?

Do you get tired from blinking?

NO you don't, you know why?
because it is done automatically and naturally

[native prawn]

i may not get tired of blinking

but youre manually blinking now

[native prawn]

he passes out

as you do

[lusty plinth]

And then the Void, which is infinitely patient and even more vicious…

[lusty plinth]

If I had to constantly breathe in a special way to avoid poison gas yeah I probably would

[sand stump]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1134467991346618463/1480263598914797840/capture_20260308230736.gif

[native prawn]

he takes a little unbeknowing nap on his throne

[sand stump]

HE DOES IT NATURALLY

ITS NOT A THING HE TURNS ON AND OFF

Tell me this, do you guys think that the Void killed PK?

[lusty plinth]

No

But it could

[sand stump]

Brother, doth thou know a good way to explain this to them?

[native prawn]

thats silksong spoilers

[lusty plinth]

If Pale King was plunged in Void he would die lol

[tiny kraken]

Mind you the void “pacified” by the lighthouse is still capable of harming things dropped into it, it’s not like a lake of water, AND it can get into a bug’s head and make it turn the lighthouse off. Bright lights don’t neutralize the void entirely. Again, this theoretical scenario where the PK or the Radiance with a physical body is dropped into the lake of Void itself like a certain someone is not going to end with the Void just moving around them like they’re oil and water. I can’t even articulate how ridiculous of a concept it is that the void in its base form isnt dangerous to gods that GLOW

[lusty plinth]

I don’t see how this is up for debate

[sand stump]

You guys are debating where he is forcibly plunged directly into the centre of the Great Lake?

[indigo venture]

What is being debated even

[sand stump]

I don't fucking know

[lusty plinth]

Whether Radiance died from being plunged in Void or only because it was the unified Void

[tiny kraken]

Well the way this was started before the discussion was pulled in another direction is whether or not the un-unified void is strong enough to kill the Radiance/why the Void Heart is needed to kill her.

[indigo venture]

Normal?

[lusty plinth]

Yes like whether she would have died if it was ununified

[indigo venture]

In which case I think it was more symbolic than anything, I think they just got bitch slapped by void tendrils till they popped

[indigo venture]

Maybe, as long as the Void could properly hit them then ye

[lusty plinth]

Void Heart is needed to bring it into the Dream

[native prawn]

doesnt it depend on the ending? DnM she just gets dragged into the regular void sea and dies, EtV she fucking explodes

[lusty plinth]

I think we were talking DNM

[tiny kraken]

My original point in all of this, yes.

[lusty plinth]

Shade Lord is obviously a different type of power altogether

[native prawn]

oh if we're talking DnM luckily we have a second case study then

being GMS

[tiny kraken]

MY ENTIRE POINT

[lusty plinth]

Serrara thinks GMS is weaker

[native prawn]

oh so we're powerscaling now

[sand stump]

If we are just straight up plunging them into the great lake then, yes

they will die

[native prawn]

lemme put on my powerscaling cap

[lusty plinth]

Well if you’re scaling now I have to put on my shipping cap

Is Shade Lord yuri?

[tiny kraken]

Its not power scaling unless you arbitrarily say some gods are immune to void because they glow

[native prawn]

ok the AU gloves are going on now too then

[native prawn]

no but i 100% support silk moth

[lusty plinth]

You people will ship anything

[tiny kraken]

I mean I’m sure there’s SL x Godseeker out there

Regardless

[tiny kraken]

This has always been the hypothetical, as I said at the start, the reason this was not an option for the Radiance was because she has no physical form to do this to.

[indigo venture]

I wonder if GS would try and adapt a form more akin To Void Given Focus's

I'd guess yes

[tiny kraken]

I’m sure the PK and WL could’ve caged her physical form for long enough to dump her in the void if that was possible

[sand stump]

I didn't know you were arguing a point for the absolute perfect scenario where everything is right for the Void

[tiny kraken]

What

[native prawn]

i dont think you really appreciate the complexities of silk moth

[tiny kraken]

Were you not reading the first part of this discussion

[sand stump]

You are arguing fucking plunging her into the Great Lake

Either I misread or I ignored it

I honestly don't know

[lusty plinth]

“Complexities” and there’s a problematic arm number gap

[native prawn]

thats what makes it toxic and yet so attractive

[tiny kraken]

Respectfully wth are you talking about

[lusty plinth]

Silk has 8 arms Radiance has none

[lusty plinth]

You make me sick

[tiny kraken]

Oh this is a GMS x Rad ship, okay

[sand stump]

tf am I reading 😭

[native prawn]

what did you think silk moth meant

[lusty plinth]

Radiance is completely dependent on Silk for anything involving fine motor control

That’s toxic

[tiny kraken]

Temporary alliance to steer away from whatever these mfs are on

[lusty plinth]

That’s a bad standard to set for impressionable viewers

[sand stump]

Please

Got any Topic?

[tiny kraken]

I’m not tapped in like you sickos are sorry 😔

[native prawn]

but the struggle is so alluring, silk and her toxic but smooth motherly care contrasted against radiance's ever fuming rage but also desperation for approval

[tiny kraken]

Regardless of whether the base void could kill the Radiance, if she had a physical form the void would not have been needed to stop her at all. Can we agree on that?

[lusty plinth]

It’s this kind of flanderisation I won’t stand

[native prawn]

its my toxic yuri fanfiction and i can flanderize however i want

[lusty plinth]

Radiance was a better mother to the moths than Silk ever was to the weavers

And yet Silk is the loving mother here?

[sand stump]

yes

I think that she would 100% be beat by atleast PK, and if he needed it they could fight alongside WL and the Pale Court

[native prawn]

radiance just doesnt have the motherly presence yknow

she reads more like a stiff creator deity

it just doesnt work if the roles reversed

[lusty plinth]

Because she doesn’t have long beautiful hair like Silk? Because she’s not “feminine” enough to be a mother?

[tiny kraken]

I suppose we’ve never seen a god killed by sheer force, gods only seem to fade or the Void annihilates them

[native prawn]

because shes constantly screaming bloody murder idk

[lusty plinth]

Silk act 3:

[native prawn]

"KILL IT KILL THE EMPTY ONE" just doesnt set the mood

[tiny kraken]

Which is not to say I don’t think it’s possible, I definitely think a god could be killed by other gods just beating the shit out of it, but we just never see that. Then again I still don’t know if the PK would’ve done that if he could, I can’t imagine two gods fighting wouldn’t be destructive to the world around them

[lusty plinth]

She’s trapped in its sibling this is a completely fair reaction

[native prawn]

yeah ik but its all we have for radiance's characterization

contrast with GMS' sassy "better a child spun loyal... than them"

you have to see the vision

[lusty plinth]

I see your vision alright

Any time a woman shows any kind of displeasure she’s either a raging bitch or “sassy”

[tiny kraken]

Also jumping in to your guys’ meeting of the minds, a way better goddess toxic yuri ship is the White Lady and Unn. Creator/motherly gods that have a strong enemy to lovers arch, the WL encroaches on Greenpath but eventually they rule it together to keep it from fading.

[lusty plinth]

Cook again

“Mossy Unn… I’m sorry for annexing your territory…”
“No, pale Root… you protected my Mosskin as best you could, and even taught little Marmu to fly…”

[native prawn]

you have to understand that 99% of popular yuri manga characters loosely generalize into archetypes

dont blame the player blame the game

[native prawn]

i can support it

[native prawn]

also this SUCKS, dont EVER speak to me about writing yuri fanfiction ships AGAIN

[tiny kraken]

Contrast with the toxic yaoi of Crust King Khann x Pale King, two beloved monarchs/conquerors who decide to rule their empire together as duel kings Green Prince style

[native prawn]

name the ship bleached coral

[lusty plinth]

I left out the important bits there’s kids in here

Show me yours

[tiny kraken]

I showed you my HK ship fan fiction please respond

[native prawn]

sorry thats saved for my future spouse

i cant just show anyone something so precious as yuri fanfiction

[lusty plinth]

Why would you need yuri if you have a spouse

[native prawn]

its a lifestyle

[lusty rose]

What has this place devolved to...

[ruby hazel]

Can anyone explain me the starting of hk till greenpath where we fight the hornet? (No future spoilers, story lore please)

[tulip fern]

To explain all of that would have to have a lot of future spoilers 😭

You'd need to know why the knight is there, why they came back, why hornet is there, why she's trying to fight you

Which all is a lot of spoilers

[split compass]

the Knight is a wanderer who has found their way to the town of Dirtmouth
the Elderbug of Dirtmouth warns you that below the town is the ruined remains of the ancient kingdom of Hallownest
something in the ruined kingdom is Infecting bugs with madness, turning them into mindless violent husks
the player guides the Knight as they explore and uncover the truths of Hallownest and its many dangers (like Hornet for example)

that's about everything major you'll have uncovered up 'til the fight with Hornet

[still gulch]

Is Unn confirmed to be a female?

I heard the translations differ

[loud crater]

The translations aren’t accurate for lore. Unn is a female.

[rugged comet]

Hunter's Journal: Moss Knight

Dream Nail:
...New light, in our leaves...
...Kill, for light...For Unn...
...Protect...Destroy...

(Near Lake of Unn)
...She is calling... Home so close...

@theplasma used /journal name: Moss Knight text: Dream Nail

[ruby hazel]

Thank you gentlemen

[ruby hazel]

Appreciate your willingness to help.

[tulip fern]

Ah silly me i didn't realise you wanted what the other person said

[mighty dove]

To help out in the future, be sure to read lore tablets as much as ya can

[still gulch]

I know that what is the evidence that Unn is a female

Since translations aren't consistent

[loud crater]

The Moss Knight at Lake of Unn calls Unn a she.

[still gulch]

Ok useless fact
Godseeker apparently knows we are training to beat absrad in pantheon of hallownest

Woe! Thou Speck! To achieve victory, even if only against mere imprint of that most
brilliant deity. Thine battles proves strength enough to impress.
But couldst thou ever hope to overcome that mighty God tuned at the core of dream and mind, when met in perfect state, at peak of all others? We think not!

[indigo venture]

I love how hypocritical Godseeker is

[safe prairie]

she literally gives it away in that second last sentence

"but couldst thou ever hope to overcome that mighty god tuned at the core of dream and mind, when met in perfefct state, at peak of all others?"

[still gulch]

She says we have only beaten the imprint of that "brilliant deity"

Second sentence refers to the pantheon Absrad who is indeed at the peak of all others

[indigo venture]

The imprint being the copy in Godhome of AbsRad yes

[still gulch]

Yeah

[ruby hazel]

It's okk, you tried

[ruby hazel]

Yes

[glass token]

Curious on which ending is ore Canon logically and narratively
Dream no More or any of the Godseeker endings

[hot lily]

all endings are considered valid, however only some of them lead to Silksong

[glass token]

Feels like the only one is Dream No More tbh
Also pings off

[hot lily]

||and EtV||

[indigo venture]

All endings are canon

[near sequoia]

shrue nuke

[indigo venture]

I prefer EtV honestly

I think its better for the story

[near sequoia]

I don't like ETV so its probably not canon

[indigo venture]

You can do that?

[supple jackal]

what's that thing that appears close to hornet in ETV ending?

[indigo venture]

The Hollow Knight

[supple jackal]

what the hell

[indigo venture]

?

[supple jackal]

how did he get free from the chains bounding him?

[indigo venture]

Good question

The chains likely just let it go, sensing the Radiance was gone

[still gulch]

Otherwise I need to get my eyes checked but

The Hollow Knight's Shade doesn't appear in ||the SotV cutscene||

This guy

In EtV The Hollow Knight doesn't break his shell

DNM can still lead to the events of Silksong but imo EtV is connected to Sk

[inland rivet]

but still maybe we are going to have more answers in silk song dlc if that ending is canon

also maybe recheck if there is more info about that ending in game codes bc they updated the game

[still gulch]

Did they release it?

[inland rivet]

no

[still gulch]

I heard they are going to make few improvements on the hk gameplay

[inland rivet]

not yet

oh fuck

they did already

i though you were talking about ss

[still gulch]

Nah my bad I thought you meant hk

[inland rivet]

but they did an update removing glitches and also changing some aspect of the games like the dreamers in the black egg room

so maybe just maybe we would find something knowing team cherry knows that the comunity look every where for lore and more in game codes

[still gulch]

Must be that speedrun glitch

[inland rivet]

yeah T_T

[still gulch]

They most likely will but again inconsistencies also existed in hk though not as much as sk

[inland rivet]

i mean maybe there will be a dailogue update or lore tablet update

[still gulch]

Like the shade lord statue reading "void given mind" an inaccurate description for void which was changed for "void given focus"

[hot lily]

it's either of them and the cutscene allows for both

[inland rivet]

but still going back to the topic i think the true ending is canon eventhough there are aspects in ss that can debate it

[hot lily]

it's not the true ending ffs

TC literally said "we're not into true endings"

[inland rivet]

TC???

[hot lily]

Team Cherry

[inland rivet]

ok

[hot lily]

once again

[inland rivet]

so is there an ending we didn't get

[still gulch]

Yeah I forgot but still EtV is closer

[hot lily]

it's not because ||THK's shade not being visible doesn't mean it's not there||

[inland rivet]

yeah

[hot lily]

the only thing that could outright eliminate endings is ||whether or not THK is intact||

||if it is, EtV; if not, DNM||

[inland rivet]

yeah but we ||see him fight hornet right after||

[still gulch]

||Well Shade Lord we see in Absrad fight end flashes during the cutscene||

[hot lily]

||they aren't going to fight each other because THK is too weak, and they wouldn't have a reason to fight regardless ||

[still gulch]

And I think only in EtV ending knight could achive such form

[hot lily]

||Hornet's explicitly imagining and/or hallucinating, so that's not definitive evidence||

[inland rivet]

|||i think we are going to need a third game to explain for us||

[still gulch]

Is shade lord a form tk can achive or is it all voidlings fused together?

I don't think we got a confirmation for that

[hot lily]

||it's a form TK can achieve, and no Shades are shown in EtV||

[inland rivet]

true

[hot lily]

||shades being present in SotV implies DNM, not EtV||

[still gulch]

Shades don't die though. At best absrad repelled them.

Since they make an appearance in dnm climb

[hot lily]

they appear in DNM, not EtV

[inland rivet]

wait let me look at a clip

||so no shades in Etv||

[regal orchid]

Yh they’re not in etv

Instead, our knight becomes a bigger shade

[inland rivet]

||yeah void given focus||

[regal orchid]

Yh forgot the name

I still need to beat p5

[inland rivet]

same

[regal orchid]

Absrad is annoying tho

[inland rivet]

but i did all the speedrun achievments

[regal orchid]

I still have yet to do that as well

[inland rivet]

easy even without using skips

but we shoudn't talk about that here

[regal orchid]

You reckon you could give me some speedrun tips? Dm me them or smth

[still gulch]

Sorry for late reply.
They don't appear in EtV because the godseeker didn't tune them. And it wouldn't make sense for him to do so either.

Even if they haven't fought alongside him in that ending it doesn't change the fact the shades are loyal to him considering tk was chosen "lord of the shades" by the void itself

Which ones?

[hot lily]

misread what you said

||the Shades being present is a visual parallel to DNM, despite it being compatible with ETV||

||for the Nth time the ending cinematic is compatible with both of the endings and doesn't prefer one over the other||

[still gulch]

True they both stand out

||I just felt like based on thk's absence and shade lord flash it could have been closer to EtV than anything else||

[hot lily]

||the flash is an imagined/hallucinated image, it's not literally present||

[still gulch]

||yeah but hornet never sees tk like that not even in EtV||

[hot lily]

||exactly my point, she would have no way of actually seeing that||

[still gulch]

||but how can she imagine it if she never seen it though. A mind should have seen something to at least find it familiar||

[indigo venture]

||VGFocus in SofV is very different to EtV VGFocus||

[wanton zephyr]

Change in art style moment

Like their || horn shapes are different too so why can’t VGFocus be different ||

[indigo venture]

||I mean it could just be the angle of VGForm here||

But yeah you may be right

[sand stump]

Whats the topic?

[hot lily]

spoiler that

[native prawn]

hm yeah

it resembles these horns more

[indigo venture]

||The "Whiskers" are the most different part of the design||

[lusty plinth]

nothing to do with sl https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hollowknight/images/f/f6/Icon_HK_Abyss_Shriek_Art.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width/720?cb=20170416125211

[native prawn]

hm yeah

those the the horns the knight has everytime it turns into void for spells and shade cloak it seems

[sand stump]

Cuz thats the Knights Shade

[native prawn]

except in the singular instance of it turning into the LoS

[sand stump]

fr?

[native prawn]

in which it has the non-wavy horns

[native prawn]

yeah we're comparing the horn shape

[lusty plinth]

well

[native prawn]

the regular curved knight horns, vs the wavy horns

[lusty plinth]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hollowknight/images/3/34/Icon_HK_Shade_Soul_Art.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width/720?cb=20170416125055

[native prawn]

ok lemme double check the sprites for this

[sand stump]

Well, these are also from different perspectives

The curve depends on how you look at it

[lusty plinth]

you would still be able to see the curve outward from this angle

[lusty plinth]

like so

[sand stump]

We do, its just less visible

[native prawn]

yeah you would

[sand stump]

Theres also a very big difference between the shading and lighting in both images

[native prawn]

abyss shriek acquire

[sand stump]

Which would make the depth and curve of the horns less visible

[rugged comet]

Hall of Gods: Knight Ascended

Unlocked:
Void given form.

@megathekindly used /godhome category: Hall of Gods - Bottom row name: Knight Ascended

[indigo venture]

They are very slim

and long

[native prawn]

shade soul

shriek and shade cloak

[indigo venture]

What is the topic here by the way

[hot lily]

this should be moved into #sk-lore

[lusty plinth]

Okay this looks a little more curved outwards

[lusty plinth]

This is all HK stuff

[native prawn]

ok shade soul does have the wavy horns

[sand stump]

What are you even arguing?

[native prawn]

but only for one frame

[indigo venture]

That's what I'm asking

[native prawn]

heres ddark horns

[sand stump]

that doesn't make a difference 😭
if they have it then its their horn shape

curved too

there

[lusty plinth]

It was believed that LoS gains curved horns because SL has curved horns

Which it’s clearly the other way around

[sand stump]

what are these abbreviations

[native prawn]

and then LoS horns

they dont seem to be wavy

[indigo venture]

Lord of Shades and Who?

[native prawn]

unless ari is just drawing them weird

[lusty plinth]

Lord of Shades (knight with VH), Shade Lord (pantheon dude)

[indigo venture]

Istg if it's Shade Lord

[native prawn]

but he also didnt draw the LoS statue with wavy horns so it might be intentional?

[lusty plinth]

He forgor

[sand stump]

bru

this has NO lore impact in the fucking slightest 😭

[indigo venture]

Yeah that's what I'm trying to figure out

[near fog]

are the wavy horns not tendrils or smth 😭

[sand stump]

Yesterday y'all were here arguing some dumbaah fucking hypothetical and now this 😭

[sand stump]

Nah the wavy horns are their actual horns

its just their Shades horns and not the Vessels horns

[near fog]

interesting

[native prawn]

maybe but he did keep it consistent between the statue and the actual LoS compared to all the other knights void forms

so who knows

[indigo venture]

By Void Forms I take you mean TK using Void Spells?

[lusty plinth]

yeah

[indigo venture]

In which I think it's drawn different to VGForm because it was never intended to be VGForm

[native prawn]

ok heres the front angle

its definitely different horns

[indigo venture]

So dope

[sand stump]

oml

[native prawn]

very clearly not the curvy set

[lusty plinth]

I want to say he gives LoS normal horns to make them distinct from the tentacles

[lusty plinth]

But it has tentacles here so

[lusty plinth]

And here

[sand stump]

this makes no fucking difference 😭
Artists don't need to be absolutely 100% entirely consistent with what they do

[near fog]

this is what some amount of time without silksong dlc does to lore enthusiasts

[sand stump]

Like, its just a part of an animation, so they probably didn't think someones gonna just look through all the files and stare straight at it

[lusty plinth]

You’re in the hollow knight lore channel man what do you expect

This is what we do

[calm edge]

Hello

Is me

A baby

[sand stump]

who the fuck is we

[lusty plinth]

#RealLoreheads

[sand stump]

I have only seen this typa tomfoolery from you and like 2 others

[native prawn]

yea im sure that ari couldve drawn the wavy horns and they wouldve been distinct enough

to not get lost in the mass of tentacles

[lusty plinth]

#RealLoreheads

[native prawn]

especially since he does so in SS lol

and no one mistakes them

[calm edge]

What are we talking about

[lusty plinth]

Horns

[calm edge]

Ah

[sand stump]

Because its a freezeframe from an animation that isn't supposed to be picked apart for every ounce, when it is quite visible in other scenes and parts of animations that the horns are curbed

[near fog]

but what if it was meant to be picked apart

[native prawn]

they arent wavy tho

this is a very clear front-facing shot

[lusty plinth]

plus the statue

[native prawn]

yeye

the conclusion out of this is SS related tho so maybe we should in fact go to that channel

[gentle pilot]

Hey everybody!

[wanton zephyr]

The infection can reanimate corpses right

[indigo venture]

Yes

[tranquil sand]

oh your right they are for a tunisian stitch

[vernal gust]

hilariously in the years since i sent that message i have developed very bad hand pain and no longer crochet very much so i never actually learned tunisian stitch lmao

[fickle osprey]

But the same thing happened to hk he just getting older and larger

[indigo venture]

TK isn't growing.

[fickle osprey]

Then why is it curved unlike in hollow knight

[indigo venture]

What things? It's "Horns"?

[fickle osprey]

And we know there the same person because of shade lord

[indigo venture]

Yes, TK is Void Given Focus

And?

We know VGFocus can go back to TK's physical form

[fickle osprey]

He is growing up it happened to hk and there siblings

[indigo venture]

Doesn't make sense

considering that It's wearing a dead body + THK had to be trained and raised to prime form to grow

[fickle osprey]

Hk used to look almost identical to tk

[indigo venture]

I'm aware of that

[fickle osprey]

Now tk is growing up and is going to be the size of hk so the horns get bigger

[indigo venture]

We see it actively doesn't grow after EtV

And as I said, Why Now?

[signal marlin]

[indigo venture]

Hey Suscat

[fickle osprey]

But that because hk takes place in one day so I did not have time to grow up now time has passed and the have grown up a little

[indigo venture]

What.

That doesn't even make sense

As I said the same time has passed between TK and THK's "Birth", why would TK just now start growing

And the evidence you've said "Show it growing" are both from DNM and EtV

Both of those have TK not take THK's place

The reason for TK's horns growing in DNM are most likely an artistic choice to show their power or such. And same applies to VGFocus in EtV, in a grander scale that is

TK's body isn't growing, because it's the body of a dead fetus, it can't grow unless given the same treatment THK had

[signal marlin]

it isnt one day

[fickle osprey]

It's the fact of nutrition and training for hk ulike tk witch was in the wastelands

[fickle osprey]

Ya it is team cherry conform it

[indigo venture]

[sand stump]

Whats the topic?

[indigo venture]

So we just lying now

Oh okay

I see how this is going to go

[signal marlin]

[fickle osprey]

No I'm not

[indigo venture]

That's a nice fucking argument

Care to quote a source

[sand stump]

tf

ah, TK is growing

what

[fickle osprey]

Well Its already shown that he grew up in skong so it's just based on how they were raised

[sand stump]

No it is not

[fickle osprey]

What do you mean

His horns are curved now

[sand stump]

Also kindly source your quote of Team Cherry saying all of Hollow Knight takes place in a day

[sand stump]

That means jack shit, the shades horns were always curved

[fickle osprey]

No there more curved and bigger

[sand stump]

How so?

[indigo venture]

TK isn't a "He" btw

[sand stump]

Because I am almost sure you are just looking at them from a different ✨ Perspective ✨

[fickle osprey]

I know it's just what people use

[indigo venture]

[sand stump]

tbf I use he too

[indigo venture]

I know you do Grim

I know you do

[fickle osprey]

Ok but why cant we agree the knight got bigger in silksong

[sand stump]

Cuz he didn't 😭

[fickle osprey]

Look at a picture of before and after

[sand stump]

They are the same size

[fickle osprey]

No look at the horn tops the silksong one curvs up the hollow knight one point in

[sand stump]

This is HK

[fickle osprey]

I know but he is slamming into the ground at high speed it's called blur

You can it in the eyes

[sand stump]

All HK btw

[nova juniper]

hii

[sand stump]

Hallooo

[fickle osprey]

Any ways it's made to so it shows ghost accepting the void

Showing his growth

[sand stump]

Do you mean Internal growth or external growth?

[fickle osprey]

Internal

[indigo venture]

Yes TK grows as a being I suppose

[sand stump]

yeah

[fickle osprey]

It liquid void it not a solid until dnm or etv

Were he can then grow physical

[sand stump]

wdym?

No he doesn't grow physically unless you count VGFocus, but that is a culmination of Every Vessel

[fickle osprey]

You can see him turning into this ball of liquid void when he gets abyss shriek and etv

[fickle osprey]

And also that's not right it just ghost because no other vessel can get into God homes peak of panthons

I used to think that but then I realized in hall of gods in the statue for void mark it only shows ghost and then it goes to shade lord

[sand stump]

Yeah, but when they Shade Dash they turn more liquidy, and they keep this ability after getting Void Heart
So no this does not work

[sand stump]

Wrong, before the Absrad fight EVERY Vessel is shown with you, meaning all shades would be there

[fickle osprey]

No that's in p4 not p5

The ecsemptens of the other vessels

[indigo venture]

[fickle osprey]

Now were is the white lady

Or just pale king

[still gulch]

Wait why does Bretta call GP Zote "Sensual" 😭

[sand stump]

WL is in P5 and in Queens Gardens and PK is long dead

[sand stump]

Fan-fic

[sand stump]

bru

[hot lily]

their "source" is a non-canon dev note which is also contradicted by in-game text

[indigo venture]

peak source

[still gulch]

Wait then why we don't see the sun

[timber snow]

everything is underground

we don’t see the surface afawk

[meager junco]

at least 13 discarded vessels escaped the abyss

The knight, broken vessel, mothwing cloak, and also there are 10 hanged vessels in nosk's room

[still gulch]

||Pharloom is so bright tho||

[humble crescent]

i have a headcanon that the|| deepnest giant bluish masked things are regirocks wearing furry costumes and escaped from pokemon into this game, which explains why they went to deepnest because its a den full of weird spiders - the perfect place to blend in, they also mutated and interbred with spiders which gave them their claws||

[outer abyss]

what were you even thinking ❔

[humble crescent]

They look like ||regirocks while their masks are open||

[outer abyss]

how is hk related to pokemon :|

[humble crescent]

There is no other explanation to why they look like ||regirocks||
it was just a joke anyways lol

anyways

[plush viper]

||Why is the hollow knight so big when the knight is still small despite being alive for the same amount of time and with the same parents||

[fierce ivy]

Drugs.

Also he got vigoruoris training so maybe he grew taller during that

[plush viper]

True

[loud crater]

THK probably got some magical growth enhancement. Since Vessels are dead they don’t naturally grow, hence TK’s small stature.

[tender urchin]

Are ||Grimm|| and|| nightmare king Grimm|| both the same person

[loud crater]

NKG is just a dream version of Grimm. Also why are you spoiler tagging it?

[tender urchin]

Uhh I thought you were supposed to lol

You can discuss without spoiler in this channel?

[loud crater]

You only need to spoiler tag Silksong content.

[tender urchin]

Ahh okok

Thx

[granite thorn]

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hi

hihi

[valid quarry]

i think this guy is saying hi

[steady tiger]

ehhh I don't think so

[knotty latch]

I think he's saying smth

Maybe hi

[idle wigeon]

He received intensive training from the Pale King himself, and unlike the Knight—who learned to manipulate Soul—the Hollow Knight was taught to materialize it (or whatever state of matter are those pillars he makes and those things he shoots at us during our fight in the dream world) under the Pale King’s guidance. Combined with his prolonged exposure to Soul, Void, and other “metaphysical substances,” this led to his growth over time. The Knight, by contrast, had to undergo all of this within a much shorter period, and he didn't get to learn all the Hollow Knight did, the only reason we are able to beat them is with charms and skill.

Another theory I've seen is that, since everyone needs to have a source of energy due to fundamental physics rules, the Hollow Knight probably had to eat something in order to survive or at least function. But what would a vessel eat? Probably void or soul, because he is made of that as well.

[loud crater]

Pure Vessel does manipulate Soul.

It’s just in a different manner than TK.

[idle wigeon]

I know

[loud crater]

Also they’re not a ‘he’.

[loud crater]

You worded it like PV doesn’t manipulate it.

[idle wigeon]

Bro HK got big boobs u know

[loud crater]

THK and TK are genderless.

They’re an ‘it’

[idle wigeon]

I meant to say they could materialize (or whatever you wanna call it) soul in addition to manipulating it

[loud crater]

TK also materializes it in the form of its spells.

[idle wigeon]

Not the same way HK does it, that's why I said "or whatever you wanna call it", because soul is already a liquid-like substance naturally, but the HK can solidify it

[loud crater]

Naturally it’s something that just permeates the air.

[idle wigeon]

He is "sexless"

[idle wigeon]

Alright bro whatever, it comes down to the same thing

[rugged comet]

Developer comment: Protagonist is genderless

According to Ari Gibson, the game's protagonist is genderless.

Source

@lexmolten used /dev-comments source: Reddit name: Protagonist is genderless

[loud crater]

TC said they’re genderless.

[idle wigeon]

Yo that's crazy

[idle wigeon]

I disagree, but I am not in the mood to start an entire debate on the semantics of gender vs sex

[loud crater]

Bro TC literally said it, this isn’t exactly something you can debate on when they said they are genderless.

[idle wigeon]

"An alien is actually human" ahh developer comment

[loud crater]

No? That doesn’t even apply here.

[storm comet]

It suposed to be a bug, I think

[loud crater]

They made a statement about a character they made. It’s not up for debate. TK is genderless.

It’s like if I said a character I made isn’t a Lich and someone still said “actually I think they are and the original maker is just conflating terms”.

[zealous wing]

A vessel would likely consume soul due to being made up somewhat of void, given that godseeker calls the knight in the pantheon of hallownest, "oh eater of soul".

[loud crater]

Also it doesn’t matter if the Vessels do or don’t consume stuff to grow. They’re undeads. They can’t naturally grow.

[storm comet]

So, as a genuine question, if the vessels can't grow. How THK is so big if he started has as little as us?

Did PK make a bigger vessel or what?

[loud crater]

Magical growth. Someone used some kind of magic to make them grow unnaturally.

[storm comet]

Who could that one be?

Soul master or so?

[loud crater]

Pale King or White Lady probably.

[zealous wing]

Only real info we have on how thk grew, is pure vessels journal entry, "raised and trained to prime form", what that entailed, we don't know.

[storm comet]

So the should grow naturally, but under certain conditions

[loud crater]

Unknown.

[storm comet]

I guess its by training

[loud crater]

TK trains and never grows.

[storm comet]

But ill like to think that, along that. PK make bigger vessels to contain the void of THK, who whas bigger over time

[zealous wing]

For all we know, the vessels being part root could mean that they need to be watered regularly to grow, but we have no answer aside from headcannon.

[storm comet]

Maybe its because the game occurs in a very short time gap or something

[storm comet]

Or, as I said, it could need some specific conditions to grow

[split compass]

https://atwotonedbird.tumblr.com/post/806265281339113472/how-to-grow-your-vessel

(This little bird wants to carry you across)

How to grow your vessel

-# #Hollow knight #silksong #the knight #the hollow knight #hornet #hk little ghost #hk ghost #hk hornet #pure vessel #op #my art

Tumblr · Jan 20, 2026, 1:08 PM

[split compass]

THK was said to be 'raised and trained', so it has to do with their particular unique upbringing

we never get specifics - and we never will!

[green pilot]

Yeah we don't even know how plant like roots are

Wait... The plants... Where do they get their sunlight from??? Is there no photosynthesis????

I haven't questioned the fact that the world is as bright as it is but the fact that there are so many plants in an environment with absolutely Zero sunlight is quite weird

[loud crater]

Fungi emit UV light on the celling.

[tiny kraken]

If they’re tiny bugs why does water not have more visible surface tension? It should be like glue to them.

Basically don’t think about it

[runic ridge]

yea exactly

[green pilot]

I mean fair but we dont know how big the bugs in the game are

[storm comet]

It's funny to me to think that the PK in his wyrm form its justo a dirtworm from our dimension

[proven quail]

Why does the white lady look like the delicate flower

[loud crater]

They’re both glowing white things.

[proven quail]

K thx

[sand stump]

I mean, the Greenery in HK is sustained and originates from a Higher Being, the God of Light is also a big thing that allowed for good amounts of sight
Plus there are other ways of having greenery without direct sunlight iirc.
Additionally, we could just put it upto Soul magic, the very Life Force of beings

[still gulch]

Soul and Essence could emit a powerful light. Since they are both natural like the sun they can act like the sun for plants. But no such confirmation only a theory of mine

[indigo venture]

Are we fr taking "vessels bodies grow like plants" seriously enough to debate it

[faint sundial]

yea

i think

its interesting enough

to spike a discussion

is soul rhe same as essence

or whats the difference

i forgot

[timber snow]

essence is tiny fragments of light that dreams and memories and shit are made of

[hot lily]

no however soul can be stored in essence

[idle wigeon]

They are not undeads, they are vessels similar to bugs, made of void and whatever composes the Pale King, and soul obviously. And even if they were undeads that doesn't mean they can't grow

[near sequoia]

They are reanimated corpses of PK and WL's children

And uh they evidently don't grow naturally

[idle wigeon]

Gender is not something physiological, even if the developers say the vessel is genderless it is not something they can simply define like that. Again, I could give an entire lecture on semantics to show you what I mean by this, but since this is a debate about a game, I don't want to go full philosophy mode and sent walls of text just to convince you of something like that

[idle wigeon]

They are not reanimated, the PK and the White lady literally made the vessels, it's like saying "people are undeads because they were just bodies but then we put souls in them and only then they become humans"

[near sequoia]

Yeah its true that TC has repeatedly conflated gender and sex

No shade to them or anything its just imprecise language

[near sequoia]

No? "That place where it was born, where it died, where it began... "

[idle wigeon]

Wym?

[near sequoia]

Vessels have already died, The White Lady and the Pale King mated and placed the resulting eggs in the abyss, which you can see in game

[near sequoia]

That's a piece of dialogue from the White Lady

[idle wigeon]

Yea, not much different than fetuses

"make an egg and put in the abyss", sounds familiar to how humans are formed

[near sequoia]

But its not

[idle wigeon]

What is the difference then?

[near sequoia]

Fetuses generally aren't hollowed out before birth with an external substance and then animated by it

[indigo venture]

The fetus dies

As a former fetus I can confirm I didnt die before being "born"

[near sequoia]

They were made through conventional reproduction, if that's what you mean, but the reason they are undead is because of what happened to their eggs afterwards

[indigo venture]

What is the topic btw

[idle wigeon]

Hollow Knight

[indigo venture]

[near sequoia]

Whether vessels are reanimated

[indigo venture]

Id say yes

[idle wigeon]

Wait, the vessels died, and then they put the void in?

[near sequoia]

It was brought up because of a theory of how PV grew but it wasn't really relevant idk why we're talking about it reading back

[indigo venture]

The void placed itself in

The corpses of the original children are pupeetered by the shade inside

[near sequoia]

They died because the void hollowed out their body in the egg

[indigo venture]

I personally think of the Original Children as Vessels are 2 entirely different beings

[near sequoia]

Eh

Vessels don't behave like entirely raw void

[idle wigeon]

So it is more like a they got possessed rather than being undead

[near sequoia]

Well they died

They're said to have died but they're still animated

[sand stump]

whats the topic?

[idle wigeon]

Because you are not bringing the dead back, you are replacing its essence

[near sequoia]

No vessels still have the essence of the original children, again they don't behave like entirely raw void and we even see that the shell itself has essence on it with Lost Kin

[still gulch]

What is the wisdom behind Sly choosing to chase the geo in a fallen civilization? What makes him think geo is power?

[idle wigeon]

But since it is a different being inside the shell, it's not undead specifically, it's like how a ghost possesses a body, but in this case the body is dead

[indigo venture]

Shades are imprinted void yeah

[hot lily]

yeah, at best the shades are a merger of void's mind & the original child's

[indigo venture]

My take is imprinted by will like Kingsmoulds, will of the original children

[near sequoia]

Its not an entirely different being

[indigo venture]

75% Different at least

[hot lily]

it's different but we can't exactly know how different

[near sequoia]

Also undead is a fantasy term that doesn't really have a specific meaning this isn't really a meaningful debate imo

[idle wigeon]

That's why it is a possessed bug rather than an undead

[idle wigeon]

Yea

[near sequoia]

When people say they're undead they're just referring to the fact that they died and are still animated

[idle wigeon]

But whatever died doesn't exist anymore

[near sequoia]

It does in some capacity

[idle wigeon]

So it's more like a possession

[near sequoia]

You can call it that too

[still gulch]

How are vessels dead or can't be considered living creatures if the shades are the spirit that animates their bodies?

[near sequoia]

Shades aren't really conventional biological creatures

[indigo venture]

I think like this too

[near sequoia]

And vessels don't need to do basic things like eating or drinking

Couple that with all their organs being scooped out they aren't biologically alive in any way

[still gulch]

No d..., no balls, and probably no butthole because

[idle wigeon]

That's not consistent with the fact that the body is intact, if they had consumed the organs, they would have also consumed the shell itself

[indigo venture]

[indigo venture]

I mean the outer and inner body are different

Void kills consistently leave most of the body intact whilst Void is seeping out from the inside

At least as far as I can recall

[near sequoia]

The shell being more resilient than the organs is plausible

[still gulch]

The Knight only can't talk or smell I think. Those are the only outer features he lacks

[idle wigeon]

I mean, even if the void consumed the internal organs, it still must have a source of energy in order to satisfy basic thermodynamic laws

[sand stump]

Are we talking about Vessels being alive or somethin?

[near sequoia]

What basic thermodynamic laws this is a fantasy bug kingdom

[idle wigeon]

Not to the point of resisting the void

[sand stump]

world where a God can create life by going to sleep

[indigo venture]

That latter part seems irrelevant

[sand stump]

and another can create a disease from your dreams

[loud crater]

The Vessels wouldn’t have a concept of what gender is since most died almost immediately. And again, the people who made the content said something with the intent of it being canon so it’s canon.

[idle wigeon]

It's another dimension, it's not like it doesn't follow any rules

[indigo venture]

They sure are sexless at least

[idle wigeon]

The fact you need soul to fuel your spells suggests law of conservation still applies here

[loud crater]

The limitless amount of soul within Kingsoul:

[idle wigeon]

Gender has to do with categorization not will 😭

[indigo venture]

God shi

[loud crater]

I never even mentioned will what are you on about?

[idle wigeon]

For instance, if you have male genitalia, and have XY chromosome, no matter what your parents say, you are a male. The same applies to gender

[idle wigeon]

By will I am referring to Team Cherry determining HK gender

[loud crater]

Dude it’s their character, they made a statement about that character and as such said statement is true.