hk-lore

[marble birch]

He’s essentially just a flashier, stronger Massive Moss Charger, in that he’s a colony of smaller creatures huddling up to pretend to be a bigger creature.

[wispy thistle]

oh

bruh

intresting

[loud crater]

Where does it say he’s a “colony” of a bunch of Grimmchilds?

[pseudo lodge]

When you stagger Grimm you can see he's made out of multiple Grimm children

[loud crater]

I always took it has he just splits into them, not actually being made up of them.

[marble birch]

Ye. When he Staggers, you break the facade and you can see the ‘real’ Grimm, the child containing the scarlet flame, flitting about amid the dupes. They all conjoin and fuse back at one spot to recreate the facade outer layer after a moment.

He’s essentially a bat colony fusing together into one larger bat.

[loud crater]

That’s… an assumption. He’s made of nightmare essence since he’s a construct of the nightmare heart so why would he be a bunch of Grimmchilds? And it’s pretty clear the Grimmchild that replaces Grimm grows and where do all the other Grimmchilds go after you beat NKG and presumably kill Grimm(burn the father feed type shit).

[marble birch]

Grimm never grows ‘out’ of the Grimmchild form once it reaches full maturity, as the Grimmchildren comprising him mirror the max level Grimmchild your Charm produces. He just fuses with a bunch of his kin in order to achieve the ‘Troupe Master’ form, though enough Damage momentarily breaks the illusion and exposes the genuine Grimm for a moment before he re-assembles the guise.

[loud crater]

What?

[marble birch]

Once you kill the Nightmare King, the Grimmchild your Charm produces is now essentially the new, reborn Grimm, as it now houses the scarlet flame. Once its mind finishes maturing, he’ll likely regain the power to make his other children and fuse back into the Troupe Master guise.

[loud crater]

Why assume it needs some weird ability to form more Grimmchildren to “disguise itself” instead of just growing? Or just using the illusion on itself without needing the other(probably fake) Grimm children?

It’s a fight dance thing, Grimm could just be trying to confuse TK when it does that.

[marble birch]

He makes a pained noise and dons an expression of shock or surprise before falling apart and losing his guise, i’m pretty sure that’s not intentional.

[loud crater]

He changes expression? What is this alleged expression he makes?

[marble birch]

The same pose he has when you land the finishing hit, if memory recalls. Like when you Stagger him he very briefly loses his composure and then falls apart, separating into the swarm composing him and exposing the genuine Grimm for a few seconds before he re-assembles.

It also isn’t an illusion or trick, since you can hurt the real Grimm once you reduce him to the swarm.

[loud crater]

Still, the other “Grimmchildren” aren’t the fully leveled up form and are tier one Grimmchilds.

[loud crater]

I’m more so arguing he’s not a swarm of them because that barely makes any sense and it’s kinda a stretch if I’m being honest.

[marble birch]

It makes perfect sense. He’s a small creature joining with others to make the appearance of a bigger creature. When you do enough Damage, that facade breaks for a moment or two and you reveal him for what he truly is.

[loud crater]

You’re using his stagger(a game mechanic) as a basis for him being a swarm when what allegedly composes him are all low tier Grimmchildren and, again, he wouldn’t need to be a swarm since he was made by a Higher Being who can just make him one single large being.

[marble birch]

He’s not a single large being. He’s just one small creature spawned by a Dream Deity. He fuses with others to make the illusion of being one larger creature. Even the proper Nightmare King shares this truth. It’s just a cluster of small creatures fusing together.

The reason for why he’s so small in truth likely leads to the Nightmare Heart being, at its core, a mental entity rather than a physical one, and so struggles to produce a physical, tangible vessel.

[loud crater]

Dream Beings don’t really have issue manifesting something physical. The Radiance can make the infection physical and the entire Grimm Troupe(but Brumm and Divine) are all constructs of the Nightmare Heart.

Hell, I’d wager the fucking tents are nightmare constructs.

[valid rapids]

🥀 grimm's whole thing is transforming all throughout his fight

Dracula turns into a swarm of bats he isnt a bunch of bats in a trench coat

[frigid kayak]

i’ve never heard this theory before and ngl it’s interesting af

[frigid kayak]

but if you banish the troupe following Brumm’s advise, he remains in dirtmouth with no memory of ever having been apart of the nightmare troupe.
just for shits and giggles, what if say the masks that the troupe members all wear are in of themselves the physical manifestations of the nightmare king.
(like dio & the stone mask in jojo)and through the mask anyone can can be possessed with the nightmare flame. it’d explain why Divine’s dream nail dialogue and normal dialogue sometimes sounds like 2 different ppl cause her mask is cracked in half

[candid basin]

???

grimm is NOT like 10 bugs in a trenchgoat

trenchcoat

[forest hearth]

grimm is no real bug, he's a shapeshifter cause he too applies to being cloaked in forms dreamed, methinks

[still gulch]

He is no real bug by the sense he is created by nmh.
However it gets confusing since moth tribe are seemingly bugs even though they were born from the light of the radiance.

[sick scaffold]

If only insects exist in the hollow knight world then how come the existence of jellyfish and monomon

[tribal bay]

what if the jellyfish are a type o fbacteria that look like kjellyfish

[loud crater]

False. HK is not just a world of insects. Spiders aren’t insects. Wyrms and whatever the hel White Lady is aren’t insects. The jellyfish are artificial creatures made by Monomon(who’s like half jellyfish.)

[candid basin]

and there's also coral so

[hot lily]

insects are not the only inhabitants of the world

[tropic nest]

Hello everyone! The Hollow Knight Text Database has been updated with the text changes from the recent patches. Additionally, all of the cut text from Hollow Knight and Silksong has been added to the database. Remember that cut content was either withheld or removed deliberately, so while it can be useful, it shouldn't be taken as explicit canon.

Finally, the app will now let you know when any future updates are available so you won't have to check manually. The new version of the app can be found here: https://github.com/jdvannest/HollowKnightTextDatabase

Happy Lore Hunting!

[indigo venture]

Thanks

[loud crater]

Huh?

Wats dis?

[tropic nest]

#hk-lore message

[loud crater]

Huh. Neat.

[calm edge]

Hello ppl

How is it on the hk server today

[loud crater]

Minos Prime P Ranked me. Again.

[indigo venture]

Your alive?

[loud crater]

I keep respawning.

[winged tangle]

Wait so

[loud crater]

Wrong channel.

-# yes

[winged tangle]

theres no ss lore

[loud crater]

#sk-lore

[winged tangle]

woah wait whaaat

ok thank you

[loud crater]

Don’t forget to delete that shit first.

[red glen]

so like. soul naturally moves like a spiral (look at the circling soul balls in the Sanctum jars). so the Shamans' spiral focus just lets it flow naturally?

[loud crater]

maybe?

Shi, I dunno.

[pure inlet]

I guess I never thought of it like that

Spiral focus could be a way to sort of harness that

But the soul jars might be a unique case

Natural soul is just intangible in the air

[frigid kayak]

they say in game multiple times “bug and beast” which implies other beings tht aren’t bugs existing in the world

[hardy ridge]

can anyone drop here the best lore video you can find on yt

[indigo venture]

I ain't doing allat, just watch mossbag's

[willow crest]

Wait guys if nkg made his servants then who is he

[pure inlet]

The nightmare heart made everyone

Besides the real bugs like brumm and divine

[willow crest]

Honestly idk wut the night heart is

[marble birch]

A God/Deity.

[willow crest]

All I do is crash out on p5 bindings

[hoary hamlet]

I have a quick question why does Pure Vessel fight Ghost on P5?

Shouldn't they ascend together to defeat the Radiance?

[pure inlet]

It’s sort of unknown because we don’t get its thought process

But like sort of gameplay

It wouldn’t just not fight you

[hoary hamlet]

But aren't we on the same side or was he also ascending his own pantheon of sorts to get there and its a fight to see who kills her and since ghost is obviously stronger he wins and unites the void and destroys her

[pure inlet]

Well Godseeker attuned great warriors and focused them up into their prime forms as the pantheon leaders

Because sacred combat is what prompts attunement

Combat with PV specifically is what allows her to get to Rad

But like I dunno in the copy of PV’s eyes it could just be a sparring session or something

Interestingly in p5 PV doesn’t die it just look up

[hoary hamlet]

So he's like waiting to test Ghost to make sure he's ready and able to kill her?

[pure inlet]

The PV we fight specifically is before it got sealed

[sweet skiff]

Guys where does the |hall of gods| fit into this?

[pseudo glen]

I died

[hot lily]

not necessarily, PV is itself a memory from THK

[hoary hamlet]

Feel like that's a gameplay differs from lore thing

[hot lily]

the Hall of Gods is canonically part of Godhome

it's not something made solely for gameplay

[hoary hamlet]

Well idk then

[split compass]

bound by the Godseekers' ritual combat, I guess

[wheat warren]

Gameplay

Or as a challenge

Or it's to train up Ghost

[candid basin]

switch up on a previous view I had

The Pale wasn't just killed by the void, it was possibly a combination of the void and old age catching up to him.

[hot lily]

void had nothing to do with his death because he repelled it, and experimented with it with no ill effects

[candid basin]

didn't mossbag say the void likely killed the pale king?

[indigo venture]

Maybe, Can't recall

why would that matter anyway

[candid basin]

cuz if he did

I have enough faith in him that I don't care about arguing this anymore

[indigo venture]

Why are you blindly trusting a youtuber 😭

Mossbag has a whole ass sequel video talking about things he got wrong

[candid basin]

I just have faith in him for hk sk lore

mainly because his whole shit is lore

if he cant do that

then what is he doing?

[indigo venture]

He is decent

But as everyone, not perfect

Which is why this channel exists, for lore discussion and debating

PK's death doesn't have a concrete answer, but it has ways to disregard certain options, such as dying to Void

[candid basin]

Ill stick with mossbag for now 💔

[indigo venture]

Ragebait 🎋

[candid basin]

yes

I dont want to argue rn

so I called it quits

[pure inlet]

Pretty sure he did

But I think he walked that back in that one video

[candid basin]

lemme see this

I see nothing about mossbag walking it back

its still possible

lets gooooo

[pure inlet]

It’s not

[lusty plinth]

Little tip for real lore heads

Whatever mossbag says take the opposite as gospel

[indigo venture]

So we should heed to Matpat

[sand stump]

HEY! You have a point but the new one is actually fairly coherent and not an absolute joke!!

[scarlet jacinth]

It's not well supported, but it not entirely unsupported

The scene with his corpse has the void fog

[red glen]

it'd be interesting if it also represented how blood circulates the body. maybe Soul spirals through the body like blood courses through you. like how Qi works in Chinese mythology

[red glen]

meant to continue this topic

[vale oyster]

Holdon you're cooking

I always thought that the "spiral" part was because snails have spiral shaped shells

But both reasons could be true

[red glen]

maybe it's the spiral shaped shells what makes them so naturally good at Soul. not the other way around :3

[vale oyster]

Dont they also move their staff in a spiral shape when using magic

[red glen]

yess

[vale oyster]

(technically) skong spoilers: ||https://tenor.com/view/snail-shaman-silksong-hollow-knight-gif-10111884765606095942||

[red glen]

we should check if the Soul Sanctum gems have spiral shapes. maybe the scholars weren't as good bc they didn't know how to follow Soul's natural flow?

[vale oyster]

These are present in the sanctum

Soul spirals in this one too

Better image

[red glen]

yupp but this is just how Soul behaves. i mean the gems on the heads of the Soul Twisters and Warriors and the Spell Twister charm. if these have spiral forms. maybe they never figured out they should use spiral tools

i can't remember if they do

[vale oyster]

Which gem?

The thing in the middle?

This guy's gem seems to be just plain white

No spiraling

Soul master's gems aren't animated either afaik

[red glen]

i seee

yea so mayb they didn't figure that out

that's what they use to focus soul right?

[vale oyster]

Idk if thats what they use, but yeah, they failed to achieve a "pure focus"

[red glen]

ye

[pale pilot]

hey

i know alll of the hollow knight lore but

some things confuse me

regarding the vessels and shades/sibvlings

can sum1 help me

[winged tangle]

i can try

[pale pilot]

how come some vessels die when they're dead and their shade doesnt escape unlike the siblings

[covert brook]

As in the broken vessel?

Cus for the broken vessel its only a shell

And nothing else

The infection takes over its body

And controls the shell

[winged tangle]

wait kinda unrelated but then how does the dream nail work on the broken vessel?

or wait nvm

[covert brook]

It used to be alive

[winged tangle]

i was thinking it had to be a person but like it works on stuff like the radiance statue too right?

I don't really get the dream nail

[covert brook]

Well the radiance statue is the only exception

So a lot of people think that is where the physical corpse of the radiance is inside

And that’s why u can dreamnail it

Dreamnail only works on the deceased or the living

[covert brook]

It is a bit confusing

[still gulch]

Did Pale King foresee the protagonist?

I think he might have done

[covert brook]

The knight?

[winged tangle]

then why wouldn't he have chosen the knight as the vessel?

[covert brook]

Well the thing is there were technically 2 purely hollow vessels

Thk and tk

The pale king just did not know about the tk and trained thk

Tk escaped from the abyss

[proven burrow]

how can i beat mantis lords

[covert brook]

Just have good timing and dodge

[pale pilot]

then whys the cloak still with it

shouldnt they be seperate

[proven burrow]

hmm

[pale pilot]

and also the vessels in nosks lair and greenpath

[proven burrow]

which charms should i need tho

[pale pilot]

what do u have

[covert brook]

What charms do u have rn?

I wouldnt use anything w spells

[proven burrow]

i dont remember

[covert brook]

Cus u cant rlly use them

[proven burrow]

lemme check

ill send it to ur dm

@covert brook

[pale pilot]

also the shrine of the belivers

[covert brook]

They all escaped

[covert brook]

Aight

[pale pilot]

they escaped but then they died

[covert brook]

Yea

But the thing is

[pale pilot]

and no shade

[covert brook]

Since they werent hollow

And the void wasnt in them

[winged tangle]

do we know they are actually vessels? like the one in greenpath? cuz if yo just say that since they look the same you could claim zote as a vessel

[pale pilot]

huh

wait

[covert brook]

Dude tbh i barely know

[pale pilot]

lem me get this straight

[covert brook]

I js finished my first playthrough

[pale pilot]

the siblings in the abyss were consumed by void before they were born but the vessels that hatched before the void got them survied and escaped or died trying?

[pale pilot]

oh cool what percentage

im at 104% rn

[covert brook]

Lmao he does look like a vessel but its been told that he comes from a distant land

[covert brook]

104%

[pale pilot]

twin

[pale pilot]

he is a vessel

[winged tangle]

exactly so the one in greenpath isn't necessarily a vessel either

zote is NOT a vessel

[pale pilot]

it is a vessel since hornet hunted it

[proven burrow]

@covert brook

look dm

[covert brook]

Aight

[winged tangle]

she also hunts the knight when she doesn't know he's a vessel

[pale pilot]

zote prolly saw a body of an unknown dead vessel somewhere and thought it was a fierce warrior and copied its looks

[pale pilot]

wdym cro she knows its a vessel

[winged tangle]

bro why is zote a shapeshifter now

[pale pilot]

I SAID COPIED ITS LOOK NOT SHAPESHIFT

[winged tangle]

LMAO

[pale pilot]

same way he carved a nail from sum fake shii

[winged tangle]

but its shell is like its head???

[pale pilot]

again. copied

[winged tangle]

where are you even getting this from bro

[pale pilot]

It's js a theory i just made up?

[winged tangle]

oh

[pale pilot]

which still can be very likely/unlikely

[covert brook]

Ig the other vessels cant have shade as they aren’t purely hollow?

[winged tangle]

the other vessels do have shade

they're in the abyss

[covert brook]

Like he’s asking abt broken vessel

[winged tangle]

ohh

[pale pilot]

but the knights shade spawns in other parts of hallownest

[covert brook]

Yea cus he is purely hollow i think

[winged tangle]

i assume either it's not a vessel or the shade was just destroyed somewhere

[covert brook]

Yea could be

[pale pilot]

okay

have u down colloseum third trial yet

done*

[winged tangle]

or perhaps the shade is a result of the void? and potentially the pale king and white lady tried to make a pure vessel without the void before? then they're what's left over after that?

idk I'm js guessing atp

[covert brook]

Nah but im trying to do it rn

I keep dying before the cage

[pale pilot]

They made a million and yeeted their eggs into the abyss to be consumed by the void

my laptop lags when im doing it

it used to run fine on my pc but i sent it to get repaired

[covert brook]

Ahh damn that’s sad

U should try after u get ur pc

[pale pilot]

Also one detail i just noticed

[covert brook]

Yea?

[pale pilot]

the audiences' masks look exactly like some of the ones in mantis village

[covert brook]

Wait damn

That’s crazy

[pale pilot]

They tried to kidnap some of the mantises

Either they succeeded and got some mantises who got infected or got them from queens garden

[covert brook]

Also

If u go to the soul pool in colosseum

And use ur nail

The fool inside will cover its eyes and make a grunt

U can see the water splash

[odd quarry]

Question 1: can vessels get rid of the void in there body?
Question 2: what would be the ability of a vessel if they were only created from both wyrm and roots

[pale pilot]

1. no but they can embrace and control it like the k night when it gets voidheart
2. they'd be their offspring and higher beings

[pale pilot]

gl at coloseum u gotta fight a soul warrior assisted by a twister and a brooding mawlek

[odd quarry]

Question 3: how did lace manage to be saved?

[pale pilot]

lace?

[covert brook]

Silksong character

[pale pilot]

SPOILLERs

i havent played silksong yet

[covert brook]

I’ll ans ur question js gimme a min imma eat rq

[covert brook]

Same

[naive moon]

I want lore

Small lore

[covert brook]

Where are u in the game

[naive moon]

3rd run

I already masterd the game

I love it

[covert brook]

1: well it cant and even if it did it would just be a shell as the void gives the vessel sentience
2: they would be a higher being like the pale king

[covert brook]

The only reason thk got infected was cause of the pale king

[naive moon]

Ykw i already know most of the lore

[naive moon]

He chose the wrong vessel

[covert brook]

U should try speedrunning

[naive moon]

Aka son

[covert brook]

Nope

Not cus of that

[naive moon]

I mean i can do fireball skip in Greenpath. Im proud

[covert brook]

The pale king grew affectionate to thk and thus thk wasnt ‘hollow’ anymore cus it got emotion

[covert brook]

I have mad respect for u

I can barely even pogo properly

[naive moon]

How many hours you have?

[covert brook]

80😭

[naive moon]

Im 3x that

[covert brook]

Damnn

Nicee

[naive moon]

I speedrun without speedrunning

I think hollow knight is better than silksong

Mark my words

[still gulch]

I think Pale King could have foreseen the protagonist because
1- The dreamers are sealed outside of black egg when we see in sealed siblings ending hornet serves as a dreamer inside the black egg making it impossible to break the seal of the egg
2- Monomon who was kind of an advisor I think regarding the vessels and seals says multiple times "the seals must be undone"
3- There are multiple lore tablets who seemingly inform the knight directly such as how to focus in one.
4- At one point all of the characters namely Old Stag, Hornet, Monomon, Quirrel understand the fate of Hallownest is at the hands of the protagonist with Monomon herself tasked Quirrel to help the protagonist break her seal.
5- Hornet is aware of the options the ghost can take to determine the fate of Hallownest (not counting EtV) which is either continuing the cycle or facing the heart of the infection.

[shy schooner]

Just a quick question

Is it possible to get to the Nightmare Heart with a dream from Grimm?

Like the NH is a higher being if i remember correctly but the only way for us to get to it, is by dream nailing Grimm in his sleep

Would it be possible to get there without that?

[pure inlet]

Probably not

The DN isn’t teleporting us to it

It’s a dream based being that exists within the nightmare realm

[shy schooner]

Okay so my first thought was right ty

[fiery holly]

Random thought

When you fight NKG in godhome, there is clearly a bunch of nightmare essense. How is that even possible?

[sinful saffron]

would ||hornet|| beat lebron in a deathmatch?

[covert brook]

100%

Have u seen how strong she is

[deep schooner]

THE lebonbon?

There might be an universe where lebonbon just anklebreaks her the entire time and hirnet gets mogged

[proven burrow]

mamru is the best dream warrior ive ever seen

[candid basin]

he's pretty accurate from what I've seen

I mean like

his job is lore

[candid basin]

king lebron would win bro

[signal marlin]

really none of this acts as evidence for the claim

[candid basin]

do you have like a keybind to place cat emojis in front of every message you send or smth

[signal marlin]

maybe

[candid basin]

oh since when were there pronouns next to ppl's names?

byd??

[indigo venture]

ok

[candid basin]

he's advertising/scamming

[candid basin]

wait remember yesterday when I was arguing the pale king died via void

or at least void played a part in his death

i finally proof

to back it up

[signal marlin]

[candid basin]

firstly

[torpid axle]

Who is an active mod ong

[candid basin]

the obvious void particles in the white palace show the void was there at least

[torpid axle]

@tired egret

[candid basin]

its also in the same room where the white palace used to be

[indigo venture]

Well yeah the White Palace had a room dedicated to experiments with the void

[candid basin]

all the guards are leaking void

[indigo venture]

Well yeah, theyre dead void constructs

[candid basin]

when we killed them in game

do they leak void like that?

[indigo venture]

What are you trying to say here

[candid basin]

its possible the void overcame them and slimed them

like what happened to the love key holder

[indigo venture]

How would that work

[candid basin]

idfk they just die

[indigo venture]

That happened to ToL Bug because he himself wasnt void

And thus being in close proxmity with The Collector made him be overrun by Void

[candid basin]

im assuming it drained the void from them

consumed it

[indigo venture]

How would that apply to beings that ARE imprinted void

[indigo venture]

Thats a wild assumption

[candid basin]

reminder they are effectively like

void things

with a pale shell

[indigo venture]

Yeah

Imprinted void by will

[candid basin]

how exactly?

they are dripping void juice

[indigo venture]

Ye

[candid basin]

and the room is filled with void particles

[signal marlin]

this isnt really relevant

[indigo venture]

Oh you mean PK

[candid basin]

right next to the room where the palke king was fucking with void

[indigo venture]

I thought we still were with ToL

[candid basin]

yes PK was kiled by void

[indigo venture]

Yeah no that could not be void as well

[candid basin]

thats my point

[indigo venture]

That could just be rotting

[candid basin]

how

[indigo venture]

We see plenty of other bugs/beasts present the same thing in the eyes

And that cant possibly be void every single time, can it?

So its plausible its just decay

[candid basin]

how is it implausible that its void then?

[candid basin]

the fact that void was present here?

[signal marlin]

yeah that doesnt really matter

[candid basin]

how

you see the pale king dead surrounded by void particles, guards dripping void

its not impossible that he was killed by the void

[signal marlin]

it doesnt entail anything. it isnt a problematic idea for void to be near PK - he was near it a lot during his life.

[indigo venture]

What if PK just used it to kill himself then

[signal marlin]

and a lack of any void motifs or elements specifically on PK, yes

[candid basin]

so it could have killed him then

like radiation poisoning or smth

[candid basin]

hmmm maybe

[signal marlin]

no thats a non sequitur

[candid basin]

thats plausible

[signal marlin]

and not how void kills things

[indigo venture]

I was joking snake 😭

[candid basin]

then describes how it does

the love key?

[signal marlin]

yes you would expect to see similar elements that the lovekey bug has on their corpse

[candid basin]

corpse I mean

[candid basin]

well the guards surroundin gthe pale king have those exact signs dont they?

void tendrils or tentacles or whatever

[signal marlin]

no

[glass ginkgo]

i mean he had the whole lighthouse n shit to keep the void at bay in the abyss

the dreamnail dialogue from the people in the lighthouse suggests that the void like took over their mind or something and made them turn it off

which might have been bad for him

[signal marlin]

this doesnt relate to what was said

[candid basin]

yes this does

[signal marlin]

no it doesnt. the original message is simply that PK was already near void, so some being near him isnt a problem (especially not the very small amount likely from the kingsmoulds). however, their response mentioning the lighthouse concedes the later premise that void could be bad for PK

the lighthouse wasnt made to keep PK safe, thats the only connection which could make the response somewhat relevant but its not the case

[indigo venture]

FNAC

[signal marlin]

fnaf

[real wagon]

guys do the grubs evolve into moths (like radiance) or grubberflys

[signal marlin]

[indigo venture]

Well its said the next state of their life are Grubberflys

and moths dont work like that in the games lore/Universe

[real wagon]

hm

[indigo venture]

And itd be pretty fucking silly

So 50/50 imo

[candid basin]

well we cant heal from soul irl so yeah

[remote bramble]

True lore enthusiasts know that PK was assassinated by sharpe

[regal barn]

Proof?

[candid basin]

lore accuraet

btw what was the pale king trying to do with the buzzsaws?

was it training for the vesses?

protection?

just the way the castle was built?

[regal barn]

literally dream defense only imo

[candid basin]

why not just

you know

make a wall of spikes or whatever

js game design?

[regal barn]

no no he just designed his dream realm that way

did you ever see a buzzsaw fly? no? exactly

[candid basin]

so like

[regal barn]

The entire white palace we see makes like 0 sense

[candid basin]

its a bit like inception?

where thats his subconscious

like defending him

[regal barn]

imo he just fortified his dream to hell

[candid basin]

alr that makes sense

did he do this out of shame

or out of just fear

or both

[signal marlin]

things float outside of the dream realm too. theyre asking why PK used saws that could be evaded instead of something impossible to pass - which is likely just due to being a game

[regal barn]

i mean the entire architecture of the place makes little sense tho

how tf are the retainers supposed to get anywhere?

[candid basin]

like the fuckass steel plants

flying saw blades

impossible to navigate area

he's right

[regal barn]

its not a problem that only sawblades fly

its just its nonsensical

literally non Euclidean geometry

[candid basin]

also why would a perfectly designed palace

have one perfect route to get through?

[regal barn]

you go to the right, end up on the left even tho there's no route in between

[candid basin]

well the entire game has this imo because its a fictional game

dreasmscapes specifically

have more of this

[regal barn]

Yeah but white palace has that specific room down right where you see a mold for the kingsmolds

which goes far far to the right but somehow ends up far up left of the entrance

[candid basin]

this is not intentional bro

[candid basin]

wait what

[signal marlin]

they just go - nothing really prevents it

[candid basin]

where did one get a map?

[candid basin]

death

[regal barn]

Exactly, it's all just a defense mechanism for his piece of the charm i forgot the name of

So only a worthy one can take it

[candid basin]

kingosul

kingsoul

[regal barn]

yeah that one

[regal barn]

its on the wiki

[candid basin]

wait those are just the exit points no?

[regal barn]

unofficial

[candid basin]

what exactly are those again

[signal marlin]

in the current state its supposed to be protected yes - i was referring to the physical palace, which likely wasnt the same

[regal barn]

Exactly my point too

it's all a sham

[candid basin]

ok ts is just a conspiracy atp

[regal barn]

nah the white palace existed for sure

just the dream version is a scam

[candid basin]

wait defense from what?

[regal barn]

not meant to be a recreation

[candid basin]

the radiance?

[regal barn]

the unworthy of course

and radiance if she got her hands on it

but primarily like how hornet does it

[signal marlin]

what. you said the architecture makes no sense because the retainers couldnt go anywhere and i said that isnt the case

[candid basin]

no the white palace's architecture in general is not just nonsecial

it literally defies "physics"

[signal marlin]

it doesnt

[regal barn]

My point is, the dream white palace and its buzzsaw we see never existed really, same for the room layout, everything in general that we see in the dream version can't be the real white palace

[candid basin]

or how physics works in hollow knight

[regal barn]

not exactly that but still, aint no way thats a real palace and not just something PK made up on the spot to protect kingsoul

• he put a seal on purpose on that dead kingsmould

[signal marlin]

nothing prevents it from being the real layout or design of the palace. the only part thats most likely not accurate is the saws

[candid basin]

I've heard theories its meant to also be a mausoleom for the king

[candid basin]

or the singular path to get to the king's room

or retracting spikes

[signal marlin]

that can be real as well

[regal barn]

Id say he sort of took the real white palace as a base layout, then messed with it a shit ton to make it be tough

Like the hell is this supposed to be

[candid basin]

"oh shit I have to tell the king something"

[regal barn]

a room thats barely tall enough for the knight, long af and has spiky weeds on its ceiling and floor

[candid basin]

"yeah go through the lethal spike rooms to the left, pogo of the kingsmould there, and you'll reach the..."

[signal marlin]

its very common design for a throne room to have 1 way into it

[regal barn]

Also this wall never disappears after you break it

[candid basin]

with intense parkour throughout?

I serious doubt this

like look at the king husks or whatever

the silver weak guy?

*guys

[regal barn]

Also why would the path of pain exist if it wasnt just a modified version of the real deal

[signal marlin]

thats responding to a seperate issue, you originally stated that "the singular path to get to the king's room" would be an unexpected feature, so i was responding to that

[candid basin]

ok I think that the pathof pain was a training grounds last I remember

[signal marlin]

it isnt

[candid basin]

well I talking about two issues

[regal barn]

Why would it contain a memory then?

[candid basin]

thats the memory version

or the dream version

not the real version

irl it was probably some kind of test

I mean its called the path of pain

[regal barn]

Id say path of pain is his version of both testing anyone new's abilities and realizing how he fucked up, and trying to show to anyone who might see it not to repeat his mistake

[candid basin]

its intentionally bullshit hard and leads to no where irl

[signal marlin]

as a whole yes, but i only responded specifically to the comments on the enterances to the throne room

[candid basin]

so there are elevators in the white palace

[signal marlin]

yes

[candid basin]

but the king

instead of making

a chain of elevators to the top

or just one big elevator

decides to make a massive long path of doom and death to the king's room

genius architecture

[regal barn]

Also the white lady cant fit in that

[candid basin]

I assumed she grew after a while

I dont know what her anatomy is

its like some plant shit

[regal barn]

Do we not have a statue of her

[candid basin]

we do?

[humble current]

I think don't think that's what the actual architecture looked like

[humble current]

No???

[candid basin]

thats what we're saying

thats the dream version

not the real version

[humble current]

Oh ok

[candid basin]

the real version was probably reasonable and normal

to a certain degree

[signal marlin]

the whole idea is that the layout and design is the same and that PK added threats to restrict paths and add protection

[humble current]

Well it's still the actual palace it's just been changed

[candid basin]

yes

[humble current]

I agree with you but where does the 'whole idea' thing come from?

[humble current]

🤝

[candid basin]

so it was probably one safe path then

[candid basin]

thats what we're saying

its based of the real palace

[signal marlin]

the holistic conclusion of my position

[candid basin]

just fucked with and with added defense

[humble current]

I'm agreeing with you bro

[regal barn]

So we reached the true good ending, we all agree?

[candid basin]

alr good

[candid basin]

yipee

[humble current]

...so your whole idea

[humble current]

Wdym

[signal marlin]

yes it wasnt a comment on the nature or developer intent

[candid basin]

we all agree

mostly

[humble current]

Oh ok then it was just a little confusing lol

[humble current]

About what??? Which ending are we talking about

[candid basin]

no WE reached the good ending

[regal barn]

Next topic, can Lemm actually eat 10 egg?

[humble current]

Oh of the argument 😭

[humble current]

No you only give him 4

[regal barn]

Yeah but if we had 10 eggs, could he eat them? How big are the eggs?

[signal marlin]

small

[regal barn]

Small enough to eat 10?

[signal marlin]

depends on his appetite

[candid basin]

ye

[humble current]

No

[candid basin]

he has to for his gym routine

for his diet

[humble current]

That bug does not work out

[regal barn]

Cant believe this topic is the one to divide us the most

[regal barn]

He's got that grandpa build come on dont judge

And also, why are they called eggs?

Can they hatch?

[humble current]

Arcane eggs? Bc they look like eggs

[candid basin]

sleeper build

realmsleeper build

[humble current]

What

[regal barn]

Why are they EGG tho?

[humble current]

bc they look like eggs

[regal barn]

Do they?

Why arent they just called arcane balls then?

The only way you could compare this thing to an egg unless it were an actual egg is how they have layers... but if they're meant to be peeled off??

[indigo venture]

Based on the eggs we see-ingame Id say its similar

[split compass]

they don't have onions in holloworld

[idle timber]

yall can someone explain the lore of ETV?

[regal barn]

the hell

[candid basin]

whats ETV again

eternal twin von? (king von)

[pseudo lodge]

You mean "Embrace the void"?

[mighty dove]

What’s there to explain? Like, any questions you have in specific?

[pure inlet]

The Godseekers have something colloquially called “godly focus”which allows them to power up beings they attune to

By fighting all the bosses you eventually get to Radiance through PV and the Godseekers’ focus powers her up for them to worship

But then when you beat her up enough they start focusing on you instead

And that lets you become the giant void entity

[indigo venture]

makes TK a higher higher being

[pure inlet]

Ehhh

Yeah why not

In a combat sense

[astral stump]

Im the one who's behind all this btw

[forest hearth]

curious, but why is radiance not pale?

[split compass]

I mean, I think she is

she's never explicitly referred to as pale by an NPC - no one points at her and says 'she's pale!'

but I think there's a case to be made

the case against, besides again no one outright saying she is, is usually that her powers are more Essence based than Soul based

though she creates an entire race from her dreams, which is basically creating Soul, and that's at least as impressive as anything that, say, White Lady does

many pale beings also seem to have Essence-related powers in any case

[forest hearth]

fair, i was watching a higher being iceberg video and the guy listed rad as a pale being so i was just curious

[split compass]

oh yeah, i think i commented in that one

[forest hearth]

to be fair he also listed ||pale oil and fayforn|| on the iceberg so im not sure if it's 100% accurate

[split compass]

there are other things I would take issue with, yes

[forest hearth]

havent watched the full video yet but both tk and shade lord are also in the final tier which is redundant cause theyre the same and tk isnt a god without voidheart

[split compass]

i think he did an earlier video suggesting that Lifeblood and Void are connected, because ||Lifeblood only goes crazy in Act 3||

i don't think that follows though

[forest hearth]

it's possible there could be a connection but i dont think there's nearly enough info to be able to justify a point

[frigid kayak]

what’s this video?

[candid basin]

wait

what makes pale beings special again

[indigo venture]

Soul relation I think

Yak knows it

[split compass]

it's kind of a 'they're special because they're pale' thing

they seem to be an exceptional caste of varied beings

Soul-powers do feature prominently among those explicitly named as pale

[candid basin]

wait where does is say the radiance is pale

[split compass]

it doesn't, that's what I was saying earlier

[candid basin]

ok good

[indigo venture]

Reading comprehension

[candid basin]

sorry I was little confused

[indigo venture]

It's good

[candid basin]

also why the hell is gms such a damn weakling compared to every other higher being

like damn

[indigo venture]

Spoiler silksong stuff

[candid basin]

lets move ts to sk lore

[indigo venture]

no

[split compass]

who the hell is gms? that's not an acronym from hk! spoiler alert! spoiler alert!

[candid basin]

grand master sly

[split compass]

oh shit

[candid basin]

sly lowkey retired and went to chess after the nail

[split compass]

wait, that's not what he's called

[indigo venture]

Sly was a pro at fortnite

[split compass]

it's great nailsage sly

[candid basin]

he watched queen's gambit ONCE and twitched up

[runic sail]

does the white lady have a name?

[indigo venture]

White Lady

[runic sail]

i have only seen she be called as the white lady and idk if she got a name

[indigo venture]

That's her name

[runic sail]

isnt it like a title

[indigo venture]

That's the only thing she's called

[runic sail]

well then alr

[near sequoia]

"the white lady"
"the white king"
"the hollow knight"
"the knight"
who tf writing this bro

[indigo venture]

The Australians

[candid basin]

its mad dramatic

so extra aura

[split compass]

she's also called Root

but like how PK is called Wyrm

likely referring to species rather than a proper name

[indigo venture]

I figured Root was an insult like Worm is to Wyrm

[split compass]

proper name would be Ryyt

[indigo venture]

[split compass]

(not really)

[rugged comet]

Grimm - General - First Encounter

So, it was you who called us.
Well met, my friend. Well met. I am Grimm, master of this troupe.
The lantern has been lit, and your summons heeded. A fine stage you choose, this kingdom fallowed by worm and root, perfect earth upon which our Ritual shall take place.
And you, my friend. Your own part is far from over.
As the lantern flared your role was cast, our compact written in scarlet fire.
Eager we are to see you commence, but first, some illumination is required.
Across these lands my kin now spread, harvesting that essence peculiar to my... breed, the flame in dream.
Seek my kin; claim their flame and return it to me. Together, marvels shall be achieved.
But don't fret small one. For this task you won't travel alone. My child shall guide you to the flame and gather within itself that burning essence.
Like you, the child plays key role in this task. Only with it by your side will the flame, and my kin, reveal themselves to you.

@megathekindly used /npcs quest name: Grimm category: General dialogue: First Encounter

[split compass]

it's only insulting if you use lower case

[indigo venture]

Grimm uses Worm like mockery for PK, and since "Root" is in the same sentence, I figured

Could be wrong

[indigo venture]

Yak you so cool

Your eloquent and smart but also funny

I apprecieate you

[split compass]

the PK also refers to 'Soul of Wyrm, Soul of Root' talking about the creation of the vessels
and Mister Mushroom's tablet talks about a 'Root's domain' referring to Queen's Garden

so I think it's okay

[indigo venture]

They're all just very fucking rude

[indigo venture]

So what's Uumuu's lore

Why do they exist

Were they a tinier jelly before Monomon needed a protector? Or were they made for that purpose?

What even are Umus

[primal bridge]

Hear me out, the pale king would be besties with the narrator from slay the princess

[indigo venture]

Slay the princess goated game fr fr

[split compass]

abby howard

[split compass]

pretty sure Monomon made them for that, yeah

all the jellies think of Monomon constantly

one theory is that they were an early effort to fight the Infection, hence them holding it in their jelly

there's a dead guard with the dnd 'Drained...', suggesting they sucked it right out of him

(also Hunter finds them creepy and unnatural, so they don't seem like regular lifeforms...)

[low palm]

The whole fog canyon feels like an attempt to obscure the location of monomons laboratory

[fickle python]

why can u dream nail lightseeds but not lifeseeds

[low quarry]

The infected things got dreams about radiance. Lifeseeds are not infected, and don't have dreams.
(my guess)

[split compass]

truly lifeblood's power is the greatest and most terrible in holloworld

[fickle python]

oh ok

[low quarry]

Yeah. Not everyone have seen the abyss creature directly from the game's files. I've always thought that it was posing , but all those circles are eyes.
Scary as hell

[vale oyster]

||Zylotol|| propaganda

[signal marlin]

they arent the same

[vale oyster]

Its unknown why lifeblood creatures have no thoughts

[fickle python]

k

[modern quest]

K

[timber void]

Nope

[noble iris]

is the pale king really dead

[noble iris]

maybe cuz plant

[split compass]

yeah

[modern quest]

Yes

[sick scaffold]

If the radience created the moth tribe to worship her. Then how is she able to and why does she infect other tribes around hollownest. Especially places like Deepnest and the hive who were seperate from the pale kings rule

[whole arrow]

hive wasnt infected i think but im not sure, deepnest? well i think she just radiances anyone she sees on sight.

[split compass]

The moths turned their backs on the Radiance to follow the Pale King.
Without the dreams of her followers to live in, the Radiance was in danger of fading away and being completely forgotten.
She went into the dreams of all of Hallownest and tempted them to succumb to her.
If they do, she gains power and influence over them, filling their minds with her light - this is what causes the Infection.

Basically, she can infect anything that dreams.

[split compass]

The Hive was also infected, it just didn't really change their society, since they were used to being in a hivemind.

[whole arrow]

oh

they were?

[split compass]

yeah, they all goopy with the orange goo

[whole arrow]

how did it get through them anyway

they blocked a passage from the radiance

[split compass]

I think TC mentioned somewhere that the death of Queen Vespa weakened them

[whole arrow]

if so then why isnt the mantis tribe infected ( except the one in queens gardens )

[sick scaffold]

They’re strong enough to resist

[whole arrow]

kk

[sick scaffold]

But the traitors accepted it

[split compass]

Radiance gets at you in your dreams, physically blocking off a place does nothing
the City also closed its gates, but the citizens became infected anyway

yeah, the mantis tribe knows to resist strange dreams

[whole arrow]

weird..

and also

why so many buzzsaws

[split compass]

that's just PK not wanting visitors

[sick scaffold]

I heard a theory that the white palace in the dream realm is a manifestation of PKs regret

[whole arrow]

nah but he could have made more soldiers, but he had to invest into buzzsaws

[still gulch]

Unknown. However fans are convinced it is a hobby after seeing Hornet with affinity towards spiny blades in silksong

[whole arrow]

i think hornet here just likes to obilerate people with it

but the theory might be true

[split compass]

PK: "That's my girl..."

[whole arrow]

i think that was the only thing pk liked about hornet tbh

[split compass]

and vice versa

[whole arrow]

pale king gave no care in the world to hornet

[still gulch]

I doubt PK even cared about her. Herrah and PK most likely had not so nice feelings towards each other due to tensions between deepnest and hallownest.

[whole arrow]

deepnest also hated pale king for some reason

pale king tried to make a tramway from deepnest

and the workers just died

heh called deep for a reason

[whole arrow]

your name is debatable

[split compass]

just died
for some reason
Stalking Devout: Did you see that? Those guys just stabbed themselves. With my blades, somehow.

[whole arrow]

theory - flukes foreshadowed void enemies in silksong

think about it

[keen topaz]

"Man found dead from suicide with several stab wounds in the back" ahh

[whole arrow]

normal fireball spell, flukes are just normal, but with the shade spell flukes are influnced with the void

influenced

oh

i searched and 80% bees are underground

damn.

[still gulch]

I mean v spirit is a soul attack and shade soul is a variant of it combined with the void. Vegetation is seen to be possible with soul since we see white lady doing it. So flukenest charm make you give birth to a swarm of savage flukes similar to what flukemarm does using soul

[whole arrow]

flukemarm uses soul?

flukemarm just reproduce, it just lies like a pregnant mother

[still gulch]

Hiting those newborns give soul though

[whole arrow]

maybe its because er

you combine soul with flukes to attack enemies i think

it is possible by the soul sanctum

[split compass]

the glowing womb charm spawns creatures using Soul, flukenest could do the same

[whole arrow]

the difference is that glowing womb gives out babies like the knight

flukenest is just flukenest

[split compass]

flukeknight

not to be

[whole arrow]

flukeknight

no mind to think
no will to break
no players to equip

theory - does soul actually counters radiance?

[sick scaffold]

No

[whole arrow]

oh

[split compass]

she was just fucking with the scholars

[sick scaffold]

Scholars of the soul sanctum tried that

[whole arrow]

oh wait

i forgot they combined themself with soul before the radiance infected then

them

alr

[split compass]

whispered to Soul Master in their dream
"Do you know what might cure the Infection? If you kill thousands of citizens and drain their Soul."

[whole arrow]

void

no it actually doesnt

wait

AHA

I KNOW

there is no cure.

insert path of pain music playing

[split compass]

maybe if you kill Radiance, some people might recover

[whole arrow]

WAIT

[split compass]

pray for Myla

[whole arrow]

THE KNIGHT IS A CURE

[whole arrow]

you cna save myla

[split compass]

i hope so

[whole arrow]

no you actually can

she only gets infected if you obtain c-dash or desolate dive

[sick scaffold]

If you don’t kill her as a husk TC says she might survive

[still gulch]

She is canonically infected her

[split compass]

well, she's actually infected before you even meet her, you can tell
but it gets worse if you get those things

so leave her alive, kill radiance, and hope for the best

[still gulch]

I believe the reason why team cherry added her was to show the stages of the infection on a hallownest citizen.

[whole arrow]

i think team cherry is just a sadist

and we are masochist

[split compass]

you're both right

[sick scaffold]

I guess there are different stages to the infection.
First it lays dormant as with most npcs in the game.
Then it starts to cloud their mind like sly and Bretta before being saved by the knight.
Then it start to corrupt their thoughts and take control like myla after cd or dd
Then the infected host dies and the radience reanimates their body like with most enemies in the game

[whole arrow]

how did oro and mato and sheo not get infected but sly did?

they both were in habitants that were infected

[still gulch]

It is debatable whether infected bugs remain alive or dead after the radiance is dead based on the EtV ending where we see THK confronted by Hornet near the black egg. Is THK infected though is what determines the answer.

[sick scaffold]

Maybe their isolation

[whole arrow]

they both were in habitants that were infected

[sick scaffold]

But THK is a void being so they aren’t really alive in the conventional sense

[split compass]

not quite - the cloudiness with Sly and Bretta are them about to be infected, but TK wakes them up
if you get infected, you start to show symptoms slowly - Myla seemed fine when you first meet her, but she mentions she doesn't sleep anymore and her dream nail dialogue says she's hearing voices
later, her infection becomes visible, you can see it in her eyes, and Radiance is speaking in her mind
finally, she becomes violent and mindless, like most enemies
if you die in this state, you can keep going, animated by the infection as a husk

[split compass]

Sly talks about someone he knew, Esme, when he's in a daze and about to be infected
if the Nailmasters are not tempted by dreams, they will avoid infection, like the mantis tribe

[still gulch]

..ugghh, Oro you oaf.... You wield your nail... like a club...
...Esmy... how much deeper do we have to go...
Oh! What?! Who are you?!
...I see. This old village. What a strange dream, to have led me down here! If you hadn't found me, I don't think I would've ever woken.
I'm Sly. Usually, I live an uneventful life up in Dirtmouth. The air in these ruins doesn't agree with me, so I'd best be getting back.
If you return above, come and see me. I'm probably the friendliest face left there, and I can thank you properly for your good deed.

What happened betwen nail masters and the nailsage

[sick scaffold]

Whose esmy

I heard a theory it’s isma? And sly is hegemol

[still gulch]

Mossbag?

[regal barn]

How the hell can sly be hegemol, would the nailmasters not know?

Also he's the nail master, not club shover

[sick scaffold]

The only evidence I heard for this theory is if the maggot can work the giant armor than sly could. And also his experience with battle.
That’s really it tho

[still gulch]

Hegemol doesn't yield a weapon in any of his depictations
False knight however is using mace head bug as a club

Though I gotta watch it

Since mossbag is a cool funny guy

[sick scaffold]

The only thing we know about hegemol is that is that was soft spoken and had a sense of humor.

And that his armor was stolen by the maggot

Since you get the city crest after defeating false knight then maybe hegemol was tasked with guarding the crest after PK closed the city gates in an attempt to prevent the spread of the infection. This would be why the crest slots into a statue of hegemol

[fickle python]

i have a question how did the plae king transport the white palace into the dream realm

[sick scaffold]

Sheo gives some dialogue on the knights including hegemol

[sick scaffold]

“Mighty Hegemol... What a towering figure he was, though surprisingly soft spoken for one so large. They were all impressive in their own right, of course. Fierce Dryya, kindly Isma, mysterious Ze'mer ... erm, and the other one.”

Dung defender also mention he misses hegemols Humor

Yeah. Wasn’t dryya meant to be a boss in the main game

[primal swallow]

At once or like the pantheons where you fight one boss at a time

[still gulch]

Is it true dumbseeker lacks body positivity?

[indigo venture]

Yeah she probably hates that slim body she has in her dreams

[safe prairie]

re-imagined it in his dreams ig

[indigo venture]

Why would she do that though

thats the thing

[safe prairie]

to avoid the infection

[indigo venture]

Oh I just saw what you were replying to

[safe prairie]

oh

[indigo venture]

Yeah PK added the saws and PoP and shi

[safe prairie]

yep

[still gulch]

He has a relation to essance to certain extent I think. Considering he has grey essance particles similar to Unn's Green, nmh's red

[still gulch]

His whole character is that he tried so hard to escape. He wanted to escape the inevitable doom of the kingdom he created in hopes of making it eternal. He turned to the void as a force that he believed could deny time (and most likely nature itself that denied his kingdom's eternity). He created countless hollow vessels and choose one as the pure vessel that he believed was devoid of thought will or emotion and thus unable to be under rad's control then he sealed him inside an egg with the masks of 3 dreamers. But it didn't save his kingdom in the end so he escaped to the dream realm and brought his entire palace along with it where he died there with his corpse sitting on the throne room. What directly caused it is unknown though mostly believed to be the void. However we know his death was a result of his own shame. Shame of all the sacrifices he made for a fate unavoidable he knew.

[indigo venture]

I was not talking about PK in this context

[hot lily]

PK did not die to Void

[indigo venture]

hence the "She"

Also yeah wym "Mostly believed to be void"

[still gulch]

I know there is no confirmation about how he died. Though we know it was a result of his own shame

[indigo venture]

Its mostly believed Void had no involvement

[still gulch]

Void killing him is a mere theory. Its basis is mostly the throne room being dark and darker than other areas like his workshop and even the lighthouse

[hot lily]

the problem is it conflicts with how he was able to manipulate Void with no ill effects

[still gulch]

It isn't always the case I think. Like the guy he put in charge of the abyss lighthouse that was meant to replace the radiance as a way to take the void under control

[indigo venture]

Replace Radiance?

[still gulch]

Yeah Radiance is the ancient enemy of the void. She kept the non unified void under control with her light that is brighter than anything seen in hallownest. Since she was gone after moths abondoned her PK created the lighthouse and put a royal retainer to keep it in check

[indigo venture]

Huh

That is a theory Ive never heard before

[hot lily]

that's a normal bug, not PK

[still gulch]

Does it matter tho? Pale Beings aren't immune to the void although they can resist it for significantly longer than the others.

[hot lily]

they are not immune to the Void however, again, PK was able to handle Void numerous times without suffering any ill effects

so to suggest he died via Void is baseless

[still gulch]

I suppose accidents may happen? I mean mistakes and follies were once soul twisters who got deformed due to misuse of soul

I don't stand by the theory since there is no confirmation whatsoever but I don't think it is completely baseless

[hot lily]

@sage bronze i don't get why people still argue that PK could have died to Void

[still gulch]

One of the kingsmoulds literally broke loose (da collecta)

Pk also misunderstood the void

[hot lily]

ok and that being was already Void to begin with

[still gulch]

I really don't know anymore

Hallownest has multiple materials still under study. Some Soul Twisters became mistakes and follies for misusing it. A snail shaman got crystalised while mediating. In silksong ||we know what happened with the alchemist though I blame hornet for knowingly helping him destroy the ecology with lifeblood||

[pure inlet]

I mean in a vacuum without the evidence against it it would be interesting thematically

So I can see why people gravitate without considering it

[still gulch]

It doesn't matter I have a real question this time

If Moths would honour the memory of the dead how come they would forget the radiance who was living?

[pure inlet]

Wdym

[still gulch]

Tending these graves and guiding the Wielder... all penitence for old crimes. Certain things have to be kept in balance.

So the moths would tend the graves of the dead but not the idols made in remembrance of the rsdiance?

[pure inlet]

Moth culture at large likely deviated from Rad after they accepted their role in Hallownest

[safe prairie]

where does it say pk resisted void

[hot lily]

he built a lighthouse capable of keeping an entire SEA still, and that lighthouse was LESS bright than him

[safe prairie]

whre does it say HE built it

yeah doesnt mean he built it himself

[hot lily]

that's completely irrelevant to what I said

[hot lily]

read this again

[safe prairie]

?????

[candid basin]

he's right lowkey

[candid basin]

reminder that this supposed impressive light house was turned off

[signal marlin]

that doesnt really matter

[candid basin]

you've said this at the very least 10 times

what matters to you exactly?

btw do we know the relatin

between the sk fire king guy

and the nightmare king grimm?

or is there nor elation

[indigo venture]

Probably not

[signal marlin]

yes - the discussion was on the effect of the lighthouse and suppressing void, particularly how PKs light was strong. whether the lighthouse was turned off only comments on its current operational status; not its strength

[candid basin]

checks out

[candid basin]

alright

kind of tragic tbh

would've liked to see more of the nightmare troupe in general

[sand stump]

Whats the context?
Because from what I'm getting hes 100% right, the argument was about PKs Light yeah? and you brought up a lighthouse that was dimmer than him being turned off

[signal marlin]

seems to be a reference to how i say that often

[sand stump]

https://tenor.com/view/12-angry-men-true-12-angry-true-morgan-freeman-true-true-meme-gif-15324191041985733460

[candid basin]

she used it in every argument Ive seen

[candid basin]

my argument was that the void somehow managed to "surpass" the light and turn it off

[sand stump]

Elaborate

https://klipy.com/gifs/plink-cat-luna-cat

[candid basin]

wait

why did it tell me to watch my tongue??

[sand stump]

WHAT DID YOU SAY??

😭

[candid basin]

idk

[sand stump]

Coulda been a typo that made it look like a cuss word thats banned

[candid basin]

anyway the argument is pointless

either side could make a point

and the other can just go

"nuh uh"

and the argument will go infinitely

[rugged comet]

Dream Nail: The Abyss - Abyss Lighthouse - "The sea calls..."

...Turn it off?... Cannot...
My King. I’m sorry... The sea calls...

@grimpooper23 used /dream-nail area: The Abyss name: Abyss Lighthouse - "The sea calls..."

[sand stump]

aah

From this I assume?

[candid basin]

precisely

he's killed/possesed by the void

besides technically being in the safest spot

being right next to the bright light source

[sand stump]

The Black tears don't mean anything really, they're seen in many places that have nothing to do with Void

But the Void calling is a point

[candid basin]

well this time it definitely does

and also for the corpses of kingsmoulds

he was definitely killed by the void bro

he's litearlly saying he was "willed by the void" or called by the void

wait im tired of texting Ill draw a diagram

[sand stump]

I mean, being down there in a very dark area, secluded, basically alone and constantly looking deep into a sea which can twist and tear your soul by mearly touching a part of you

It probably caused a sort of madness which drove him to turn off the lighthouse

[candid basin]

he literally says the sea calls

and he has void dripping from his eyes

occalm's razor hear

here

[marble birch]

I think the sea calling might be some manner of mental presence of the Void’s fractured mind, calling out to those who get too close to the Abyss.

Mostly so as it then drains their Soul, as Void hungers endlessly to consume it.

[sand stump]

That could be taken either way

yours or mine

eh, no definitive answer I see

I'll go with mine and you go with yours

[candid basin]

attempt to summarize my theory

[sand stump]

This is

bro what 😭

[candid basin]

I made this 5 minuts ok?

I might've missed a couple details

[sand stump]

Alright tp Theory A, if the Void broke through into the White Palace why isn't it all broken up?

1. Theres no reason it would leave anything and actually it would probably have destroyed and killed everyone along the way.
   Skong Spoilers
   ||- As seen in Silksong, when given the option Void devours everything it can||

2. The Pale Kings CORPSE emits enough light to bring light to that room and shines on the throne.
   So, with that even in a weakened or depressed form, he would've naturally emitted enough light to repel the Void.

3. The Kingsmould are just dead, the they lost form which can happen with time or pressure,
   as we see with the Collector, he was already dripping but when he was put in pressure in a fight they lost their form

To Theory B

1. What??

[candid basin]

reminder in silksong

the void is somewhat unified

[sand stump]

It is unified yes

[candid basin]

gang stop spamming the x react

[sand stump]

but it was not under the direct juridstiction of the Void Lord at that time

[candid basin]

son

read the voidheart or whatever

description

[candid basin]

well we see the void is powerful enough to resist some light

[sand stump]

||At the end of the Game the Knight appears and has to actively SLASH Void tendrils to stop them from getting to Hornet||

[candid basin]

ok this is a valid point

but my current theory on that

[sand stump]

Spoiler Skong shtuff

[candid basin]

uhhhh

||is how to do it right?||

[sand stump]

Ya

[indigo venture]

?tag spoilers

[tepid jungle]

🔹 Ensure Discord’s spoiler tagging is used around spoilers (please see the pins for what is allowed, this changes between both games).
We do this to be considerate of multiple conversations taking place. Two vertical bars on each side of text will tag it as a spoiler - ||This is a spoiler.|| > ||This is a spoiler.|| Alternatively, adding /spoiler at the start of a message will tag it.

🔹 If you have sent an untagged message, you must either edit it to include spoiler tags or delete it.

[candid basin]

||is that the void (by instinct) will actively consume, even more when unified into one powerful force, the knight had to actively go out of its way to make an "exception" for hornet||

their

there

[indigo venture]

||The Knight just really wanted to aurafarm||

Thats my take

[candid basin]

lore accurate

[sand stump]

https://tenor.com/view/12-angry-men-true-12-angry-true-morgan-freeman-true-true-meme-gif-15324191041985733460

[sand stump]

||But thats the thing, thats just Void as itself. Void Given Form is different as VGForm has meaning and in some cases a mind.||
||In the Cases of the Vessels and the likes of the Collector, they have minds because they were imprinted with them. This means that they do not just bend to the primal instincts of the Void ||

[candid basin]

well they could get killed by the void too then?

correct

?

[sand stump]

No

well

Yeah

Yeah, they could technically

[indigo venture]

VGF can mean VGForm Grimpooper

thats why yoou add the last word after the letter

VGForm and VGFocus

[candid basin]

True...