hk-lore

[still gulch]

He isn't, we see his corpse in the white palace

And that corpse is most definitely a real construct since the deaths in white palace count as real deaths

Same as the radiance fight. The radiance is a real construct hence deaths count and when she is killed in dreamworld she is killed for good.

Due to these similarities in gameplay I believe that corpse sitting in throne room is also an actual corpse mutilated by the knight.

Though I don't know how nkg works but I am sure the ritual happens in a dream construct

[rich tusk]

Maybe it’s his shell?

Could be

[still gulch]

I doubt it is

He drops the other half of kingsoul

The first half coming from his wife white lady

[blissful crest]

Well yeah

Shells in hk are bodies

[rich tusk]

Oh wait yeah

He is dead

[ebon badge]

hello

[rich tusk]

Hi

[violet pine]

So

What ARE the watcher knights, why do they exist

I was wondering why would the infection try to protect a dreamer and make harder for The Radiance to escape more easily

Monomon has uumuu, but since she is a jellyfish and jellies are implied to be able to contain infeccion, and she is very inteligent, i can see how she make sure to have proteccion for herself

Herrah well the whole deepnest is her home so fine

But two things with the watchers:

1. Why would the infection only affect them "parcially" as in, they are not infected all the time, only after the butterflies get in them
2. If dead bugs arent able to be infected, are watchers half inmute to be infected? Like, broken vessel is, well a vessel not infected all the time, but could be; and for how long have they been "dead" and not infected, as other dead bugs arent able to come back to life besides broken vessel, so why isnt infection all the time active in both cases, why can it just.... leave

[still gulch]

Discarded shell of a Watcher Knight, re-animated by a swarm of infected flies.

When these silent warriors fall in battle, their bodies split open and strange bugs come flying out. I wonder, what will come flying out of me when I die? Will my hopes and fears drift away into the darkness?

Dead bugs do not get reanimated by infection

Watcher knights fallen body were probably puppeted by infected flies same way Lost Kin's shell was animated by parasites.

Light seeds

[violet pine]

I mean yes, i get how they got infected, but my wonder is more the why

More in the, why isnt if infected all the time and while other bugs just roam and have no control, why would the infection willingly take care of one of the seals that makes it harder for it to escape

Even broken vessel, it guard wings but i feel its more "useless" for common bugs or nosk, it guards a pale ore and it only is useful for making weapons better and yes that can be useful, but its not like its the only source and i doubt nosk is guarding that with its life

[still gulch]

The Radiance controls the infected bugs and can manipulate them for her own destructive tendencies.

We know a thing for sure the Radiance have antagonized many things that are not infected like mantis village. and based off the dream dialogue of Myla which could also be connected to enraged guardian dream (KILL IT KILL IT) she definitely was already plotting against the knight along his path.

It is also evident from the fact her screams can be heard from almost all infected bosses.

Implying she controlled all of those bosses we fought against the knight.

[violet pine]

Hmm

I see

[remote bramble]

Protecting a dreamer is beneficial for the radiance since it prevents the knight from supplanting THK and sealing rad

[rich tusk]

Ye

[pastel trench]

Does anyone have an guess of how many vessels are in the Abyss? Ive heard many diffrent numbers. Millions to billions to as little as thousands.

[rich tusk]

I think millions

Not less

Look at the amount of corpses

In only one small part

[pastel trench]

Its insane, i knew it wasent thousands but didnt know if it was billions or millions. Thanks!

[rich tusk]

Billions for sure no

[vagrant laurel]

[valid rapids]

We dont really know how deep it goes or how far into the z-axis

[floral breach]

the entire underground part is pretty much nothing but corpses too

we really have no concrete way of knowing though
could be upwards of 100m or it could be just a few million

[vapid summit]

why other vessel like the broken vessels dont just respawn and get their shade's back like we do

[vale oyster]

I think there isn't any intended count of dead vessels. Tc just intended to show us that there were a lot of dead vessels, but they didn't have any specific quantity in mind (imo)

[raven halo]

well some people say the abyss is like 100 knights in height (correct me if i am wrong) . the knight is theoretically measured to be about 34 cm (1'1.5"). taking that into account the abyss is about 34m long (110 feet) tho this is all useless because we dont know how big the abyss is in the z- axis.

[wanton zephyr]

Well
The knight getting its shade back is probably gameplay

Cuz once the shell is broken it’s joever

So same goes for broken vessel

The knight just never dies in its journey until the end and respawn mechanic isn’t a lore thing

[raven halo]

most people already know that

[wanton zephyr]

This person was asking

[vapid summit]

oh so the real gameplay is the steel soul mode?

[wanton zephyr]

The real lore path is probably steel soul yea

[vapid summit]

aight thanks lol

[forest hearth]

it probably is but at the same time bugs like confessor jiji are in hallownest canonically

[neat kite]

yea, Jinn buys rancid eggs for Jiji, i think

[edgy wharf]

is it me or does that look like stalwart shell?

[desert harness]

It does resemble a bit but mehh not much tbh

[misty raven]

probably just coincidence

[knotty imp]

It does.

[hot lily]

yeah

[unreal tiger]

Is Zote void?

[desert harness]

Noo

[flint kite]

how did the knight git out of the abise

[blissful crest]

because respawning isn’t canon

[wanton zephyr]

Some ways unknown to the players

[flint kite]

ya but they need double jump to even git on the platformers

[wanton zephyr]

Nobody said they even have to use the platforms

You probably has only seen 1% of the abyss in the game

Who’s to say there arent other exits

[flint kite]

but we start in kings pass.

at the top of the map

[wanton zephyr]

Yea cuz the knight spent a large amount of time in the waste

Outside of hallownest

Again
We don’t know what path they took
But there is clearly a path outside of the abyss

Cuz the vessels are seen scattered throughout hallownest

[flint kite]

than why cant we go back?

[wanton zephyr]

Cuz the knight has amnesia

It doesn’t know where it escaped from and so dont we

[flint kite]

he has no mined to think so how can he have amnesia we can be killd and we don't git amnesia

top that

[wanton zephyr]

No vessels are pure

That’s the message of the game

Now rethink everything with TK have a mind

[signal marlin]

these arent related

[surreal zodiac]

well, the pale king’s idea of “purity” is probably wrong

[twin kiln]

Can vessels sh*t

[lusty rose]

probably not

[twin kiln]

Ah makes sense

[lusty rose]

actually definetly not

since all their insides are void

[twin kiln]

[indigo venture]

They don't have organs and shit

Their hollow

[split compass]

no butt to poop

[lusty rose]

This is the state hk lore has reached

[lime thistle]

lmfao

[lime thistle]

no mind to think
no ass to shit

no voice to cry suffering

you are...

the shitless knight

[cerulean carbon]

Hey everyone!! I was replaying Hollow Knight (yes, again, but I guess I just can't stop) and I wanted to complete my hunter's journal, and in Herrah's nest next to the benches I found some kind of skull or something that reminded me of someone...

Huh, I can't send it

[still gulch]

Question: How tf Hornet lost to the Knight on the first encounter.
She is half beast half pale being. She isn't a failed experiment like the Knight. She is so much wiser than the knight and was trained by ||Hive Queen Vespa|| to make herself quicker and more agile on combat.

Like I understand being knocked out by thk but a vessel who just escaped the abyss?

[cerulean carbon]

Well, I'll explain it then. Basically, you see the NPC who ||curses|| you in Silksong so you can get the ||Witch Crest||? Well, there are skulls that look very similar to it next to the bench in ||Herrah's Nest|| ||(after you've killed him).||

[cerulean carbon]

Ah, that's not a bad idea.

I already think the knight's resistance, due to his composition, helped him a lot. Then, the power of the scenario was with him. She may not have received enough|| training because the kingdom fell too soon. ||We can base this on the fact that she's much stronger at the ||Kingdom Edge|| because she had time to pass through many different places, like the City of Tears. She simply hadn't had enough time to train, or she was too young to properly ||master her powers. ||What's certain is that what makes her stronger ||in the second fight|| is her ||speed and her tools||
Basically, I think she either didn't have enough training, or she didn't grow enough, or both! If anyone has another theory, we're all ears

[valid rapids]

The first fight is a trial, kingdoms edge is where she goes all out

[rugged comet]

Achievement: Test of Resolve

Defeat Hornet in Greenpath.

@mushspore used /achievements category: Bosses achievement: Test of Resolve

[valid rapids]

Also TK didnt just escape the abyss, it was wandering through the wastes beyond Hallownest, fighting for survival constantly. Sly even talks about TK's talent with the nail.

And TK also learns nail arts like stupid easy so its got crazy learning ability

[cerulean carbon]

Not stupid, but then why is she so slow?
magine you're Hornet, you have to teach the new player a lesson, and then Fireborn shows up.

[rugged comet]

Sly - Abandoned Village - Listening again

You're exploring then? Very brave! Plenty of courageous wanderers have been lost to the hunger of these old caverns.
You have your nail though, and I can tell just by looking that you know how to wield it.

@mushspore used /npcs merchants name: Sly category: Abandoned Village dialogue: Listening again

[valid rapids]

Video game! And again, she's holding back. Killing off weak vessels, in the aims of finding a strong one

[cerulean carbon]

It's a shame about the ship she destroyed earlier, it even had the Mothwing cloak!

[fossil jetty]

JONI THE BLUE CHILD IS THE REPRESENTATION AND POSSIBLY THE EMBODIMENT OF JESUS CHRIST

[humble current]

What

[fossil jetty]

joni is called a heretic
a heretic by definition is someone who commits heresy against the church or some religious authority
yk who else was a heretic? JESUS CHRIST
jesus was a heretic against the jewish synagogues
he was crucified for his crime and then layed on a tomb
where do we find joni?
resting on what seems to be a tomb
not to mention the fact that she gives blessings and gifts to ppl along with Joni's Blessing charm which magically increases the vitality of bugs tho while also replacing their anatomical fluids
just search up joni the heretic on google and in the images you will find books with jesus on the cover

[rich tusk]

What is hollow knight even about😭

[hybrid whale]

Bugs

[humble current]

Funnily enough; religion

[rich tusk]

Makes sense

[rich tusk]

Not only

There are some non bugs

[humble current]

What like the beasts of Deepnest?

[rich tusk]

Soo, there worms, slugs and pale wyrm most likely being a snake

Jellyfish

[rich tusk]

Spiders too

[humble current]

Weavers? They're bugs

Bugs in hk don't match up with bugs irl lol

[rich tusk]

No

Weavers are spiders and spiders are not bugs

[humble current]

The pale Wyrm is a Wyrm not a snake 🙏

[humble current]

Well they also do magic & are described as bugs in game

Comparing real life terms with hk lore isn't a good idea

[rich tusk]

Bru

[rich tusk]

Then don’t call them bugs?

[humble current]

Okay now that I think about it yeah they aren't, sorry :/

(Silksong spoiler) ||they definitely were born from bugs tho||

[rich tusk]

Snakes are also called wyrms

[rich tusk]

Who

Weavers?

Spiders aren’t bugs

[humble current]

Not in Hollow Knight, they aren't

[rich tusk]

Moreover his biology is more of a snake than that of a worm

[humble current]

Weavers aren't irl spiders 😭

[rich tusk]

How so

[rich tusk]

||Elevated from spiders||

So could it be an elevation if they downgraded to bugs

[humble current]

He has teeth growing head and can reincarnate he is nothing like a snake

[rich tusk]

Do worms have teeth

[humble current]

||*elevated from pharlids||

[humble current]

Worms can't reincarnate

[rich tusk]

Ye and what are those

[rich tusk]

Exactly

Neither can snakes but that dude is magical

But my point stands

Because he left his outer layer

[humble current]

||Common bugs native to pharloom||

[rich tusk]

Like snakes do

[humble current]

He crawls out from an egg in his dead body multitudes smaller than he was originally 😭

[rich tusk]

They are arachnids

Stated by hunters journal

[rich tusk]

Still closer to a snake than a worm

[karmic crescent]

Well they are still spiders

[humble current]

When did I ever say the pale Wyrm was a worm? It's a Wyrm. Big difference

[karmic crescent]

Who? Arachnids?

[humble current]

The pale Wyrm, the being the Pale King was born from

[karmic crescent]

Oh

Wyrms aren't even from a irl phylum

[humble current]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING

THANK YOU

[karmic crescent]

You can't exactly classify them

[humble current]

The other guy wouldn't stop trying to 😭

[karmic crescent]

A snake huh

I mean

[humble current]

It can reincarnate 🥀

[karmic crescent]

Wyrms do have some similarities to snakes

Like they got a spines

And technically fangs

[humble current]

Long and limbless ig

[karmic crescent]

Obviously they aren't snakes

[humble current]

No eyes

[karmic crescent]

Pk does tho

[humble current]

Although some snakes don't have eyes

[humble current]

We're talking about the pale Wyrm lol

[rich tusk]

That’s what I am saying?

[rich tusk]

Pale wyrm

[karmic crescent]

Yea but like how often does a spawn suddenly get eyes

[wanton zephyr]

Isnt.. wyrms… irl… a type of dragon… I think PK is supposed to be mythical anyway…

[karmic crescent]

Yea the other person clarified already

[karmic crescent]

Yea exactly

[humble current]

Yes, yes they are... thank you

[karmic crescent]

If we're being really technical here

Nvm

I thought I had an idea

[humble current]

Okay...

[karmic crescent]

I was gonna say it's the result of molting and that'd mean they have some similarities to nematodes

But wyrm left an egg

There's no new wyrm

Pk just spawned from the egg

[humble current]

Yeah

It also didn't lay the egg, which is weird

[karmic crescent]

Did pk have a larval state 🤔

[humble current]

Hehe baby pk

[tacit timber]

maybe he looked like knight on shape of unn

[humble current]

I like the image of that :)

[karmic crescent]

sigh mythical beings just being mythical as always

[humble current]

I love religion 🙏

Lmao

[karmic crescent]

Someone's gotta make it

[humble current]

Argh, I don't have any artist friends 😭

[karmic crescent]

Me neither 😔

[tacit timber]

i can try

[karmic crescent]

Please do

Ping me if you finish it

[tacit timber]

ugh i cant find a high res pic of knight on shape of unn

[karmic crescent]

You can take one from the game

There's also just the straight up texture images inside the game files

[rich tusk]

Worms and snakes are called wyrms, I am saying that the closest being from real life being a snake

[rich tusk]

Irl and dragons

[tacit timber]

i could draw it from scratch, but it'll be cuter if i chibify pk's head onto the real sprite. how to do it on the phone...

[karmic crescent]

Worms and snakes aren't even on the same phylum what're you on about

[tacit timber]

pk's prolly a worm that's just really majestic

hence a wyrm

[humble current]

Maybe take this to another channel lol (keep me updated tho!)

[karmic crescent]

Try texting in #art-discussion . You might find some people there

[rich tusk]

Wyrm is a word used to describe a limbless crawling creature

[humble current]

Well the only mention I can think of of a worm is from Grimm, calling the PK one (though that may be mockingly) so we really don't have any confirmation of worms' existence in HK outside of that

[rich tusk]

With a spine, bones and no separation on segments?

[karmic crescent]

Wyrm is derived from old Norse "ormr" meaning worm (courtesy of Google). So they are actually most closest to worms than snakes

[tacit timber]

spined bugs are everywhere in hk and ss, maybe wyrms are a specific type? i mean, i do headcanon there were regular animals at some point, but pk's headshape shuts any thought of being a snake pretty quick imo

[humble current]

Wyrm is a word (as far as we know) used to describe long limbless creatures (likely all pale/higher beings) with the ability to foresee the future, and to call masses of other bugs into their service, being the main driver of civilisation in the world of Hollow Knight (as far as we know).

[tacit timber]

regular worms do exist in hk and ss

[wanton zephyr]

A lot of bugs in HK world just have bones for no reason TC just take artistic liberty with them for the eldritch vibes lol

[karmic crescent]

Segmentation is found in arthropods

[humble current]

Which ones?

[karmic crescent]

Snakes and worms are neither arthropods

[tacit timber]

there is a boss in silksong that's a congretion of worms

[rich tusk]

Oh yeah

[karmic crescent]

[humble current]

Which one...?

[rich tusk]

That’s the only worm there is

[tacit timber]

id say the stage hazards in deepnest and ||steps|| are worms too but idk they do have teeth

[karmic crescent]

They're synonymous but they aren't the real deal

[tacit timber]

||voltvyrm||

[karmic crescent]

Look

We're talking about mythical creatures here

[humble current]

Those are ||vyrms||

[karmic crescent]

Who cares about the details

[tacit timber]

no, the description calls them worms

[humble current]

Lemme check

[rich tusk]

What

[tacit timber]

notice the relation between the word ||vyrm|| and the creature worm, though

[humble current]

Well I'll be damned, you're right

[wanton zephyr]

Silksong has a lot more “worms”

[karmic crescent]

TC didn't really put THAT much effort into a wyrm's life cycle here. Like they didn't even mention what the black wyrm even was but DD talks as if it was such a valiant fight

[rich tusk]

With teeth

[wanton zephyr]

We don’t even know if a black wyrm, or even a wyrm was involved in that battle

Or if it’s just, a name

[karmic crescent]

Reptiles, snake, dragon, worm, insect, mite all are different things used to describe the same thing

[wanton zephyr]

Maybe PK was involved in it and it was a dark day for the kingdom so they called it battle of the black wyrm for all we know

[humble current]

||The stage hazards in steps are worms, btw||

[wanton zephyr]

The only wyrm we actually know exist is PK

[tacit timber]

thank you for confirming

[rich tusk]

Yes, but have one word for them - wyrm
And pale wyrm is closer structurally to a snake

[karmic crescent]

Ok yes that is true

But that doesn't constitute that it's a snake

[humble current]

Snakes likely don't exist in HK

[wanton zephyr]

Structurally as if structure in HK is anything to go off of

[karmic crescent]

Fr

[tacit timber]

a wyrm does seem to be a bug, but it does closely resemble a snake i'd agree

[karmic crescent]

The only one I've seen almost exactly like the irl version is marmu

[wanton zephyr]

A lot of them bugs have bones
Their biology is so wonky

[tacit timber]

an actual mythological wyrm is basically a huge snake tbf, or a straight up dragon

[humble current]

In lore I doubt they'd call it a bug (being a higher being and all), but I get what you mean

[rich tusk]

Im Not saying he is directly a snake
I am saying that a snake is his closest real life counterpart

[humble current]

I mean sure ig

[wanton zephyr]

I can only remember at the top of my head higher beings, mushrooms, roots, snails and slugs are not bugs in HK, but I could be wrong

[karmic crescent]

Ig yea

[wanton zephyr]

There might be more stuff

[rich tusk]

Pale wyrm

[humble current]

The beasts of Deepnest might also not be? Not quite sure tbh

[karmic crescent]

Technically you can also claim it's a big ass leech with those sucker looking fangs

[wanton zephyr]

I thought they are arachnids

[karmic crescent]

Leeches also don't have eyes

[rich tusk]

Pale wyrm?

[karmic crescent]

Yea

[humble current]

The weavers are yeah

[tacit timber]

the devout are arachnid too

a good amount of the enemies in deepnest are

[rich tusk]

Doesn’t sound cool

[humble current]

||Elevated from them, anyway||

[rich tusk]

Yeah, so they are not bugs

[karmic crescent]

Leeches suck blood. How about the pale wyrm sucking lifeblood

[humble current]

You're right they're weavers

[wanton zephyr]

A lot of Deepnest residents are too

Midwife is one iirc

[rich tusk]

Why did he make it a taboo then? To get all for himself

[humble current]

Iirc?

[wanton zephyr]

If I recall correctly

[humble current]

He didn't want anyone else stealing his supply

[karmic crescent]

I mean it wouldn't be too out there

[humble current]

Okay cool thanks

[humble current]

The only thing we're missing is a large presence of lifeblood in kingdom's edge...
I do know there's a cocoon there

[karmic crescent]

Almost everything around the close vicinity of herrah are arachnids

[wanton zephyr]

I had a theory before that the lifeblood core was sealed in the abyss not because it has any connection to void but rather because it’s the safest place to keep it with void right outside the door ready to cook it if it escaped XD

[humble current]

That does sound a like a cool head canon, at least

[karmic crescent]

Lifeblood can add or just replace your masks. Hiveblood also sort of does that

[rich tusk]

Lifeblood seems to override void

[karmic crescent]

The hive is still intact

[humble current]

He could be siphoning honey? That could explain why the hive is closed off in modern day

[karmic crescent]

Maybe

[wanton zephyr]

Void is an all consuming force of nature, what could possibly override it?

[karmic crescent]

And the hive is very close to the basin. Right above the palace grounds

[humble current]

Certainly not bug crack

[humble current]

What a dastardly snake...

[rich tusk]

Lifeblood. The abyss creature got corroded by life blood

[karmic crescent]

Maybe

[wanton zephyr]

So funny enough
I don’t think
The abyss creature is void XD

[humble current]

Prolly not yeah

[karmic crescent]

Or maybe he created it

[rich tusk]

And it has to be affiliated with void to survive down there

[wanton zephyr]

It might be a corpse of a dead thing living in the abyss and is reanimated by lifeblood

[karmic crescent]

But pk sucking lifeblood and hiveblood is really interesting to me

[humble current]

Yeah the abyss creature might be the source of lifeblood

[rich tusk]

It’s his life support

[karmic crescent]

Yo both of them got blood in them. And the wyrm had sucker like fangs

[humble current]

||We'll likely get more lifeblood lore in SOS||

[old sentinel]

I'm pretty sure that the Abyss Creature is a dream creature since we see it in the lifeblood core room (with blue dream particles) and in the lifeblood room in godhome

[humble current]

That's certainly possible

Probable, even

[karmic crescent]

Or maybe he just has a connection to dreams. Not that he's a dream already

[karmic crescent]

Yea

[wanton zephyr]

I’ve rejected the notion of abyss creature being the source of lifeblood for a while, as well as void connections to lifeblood

So until we have further evidence aside from a possibly dead thing sealed in the lifeblood core room imma keep my belief

[old sentinel]

So it's like the radiance in that aspecy

Reanimating and invigorating evil liquid that is controlled by a dream being

[humble current]

I respect that

[blissful crest]

wdym possibly dead

[humble current]

The parallels to the infection are uncanny

[karmic crescent]

Reanimation through lifeblood (hypothetical)

[wanton zephyr]

We don’t know if the abyss creature is dead or alive

[blissful crest]

it blinks?

[wanton zephyr]

Or if it has connections to void

[humble current]

||Especially what it does in silksong||

[wanton zephyr]

The lifeblood part blinks

[blissful crest]

???

Those are its eyes gang

[humble current]

What

[rich tusk]

So we have dreams, nightmares OH YEAH THE BLUE THINGS ARE HALLUCINATIONS

[karmic crescent]

Infected beings also blink

[humble current]

Now we're talking

[blissful crest]

reanimated creatures are “alive”

[karmic crescent]

Very much could be

[blissful crest]

so like

entirely a moot point

[karmic crescent]

More like undead

[rich tusk]

SINCE THE KNIGHT GOT TO THE ROOM VIA LIFEBLOOD OVERDOSE

[blissful crest]

And infected creatures don’t blink what you talkin about

[wanton zephyr]

All I’m saying is
It might be a reanimated corpse
So whether it is the one who created lifeblood is kinda debatable

[rich tusk]

this makes so much sense

[karmic crescent]

Alive but not exactly functioning like one

[humble current]

Idk if the knight can overdose on lifeblood

[rich tusk]

It’s not, it’s the abyss creature

[wanton zephyr]

I’m talking about the abyss creature tho

[rich tusk]

Well maybe TC just couldn’t code it so they made it like this. We do have to have 15 lifeblood hearts

[rich tusk]

No I mean it wouldn’t be called abyss creature if it created lifeblood

[wanton zephyr]

Yea I mean a lot of people seem to take it as facts so I’m just trying to think the different way

[karmic crescent]

Or maybe it's just a "easy and quick for the dev" thing

[humble current]

I don't see why gameplay quirks are feeding into lore now, you can't just explain away everything like that. I feel that TK likely can't overdose bc it's a vessel, and is built to house foreign entities inside itself

[humble current]

Friendly reminder that debug names aren't canon anyway

[karmic crescent]

Yea ik

[wanton zephyr]

I think the void nature allows TK to just consume it

[rich tusk]

I will still believe that it is hallucinations

[humble current]

Yeah

[wanton zephyr]

With no overdose chance

[karmic crescent]

Maybe that's how the abyss creature was created

[humble current]

Sure thing dude, go off

[karmic crescent]

Originally an ancient being, overtaken by lifeblood

[near sequoia]

Everyone in Hallownest can drink lifeblood safely

[humble current]

It's possible

[near sequoia]

Salubra Hunter The Knight etc

[karmic crescent]

When did they say that?

[humble current]

Well, not too much
(Silksong spoilers) ||hornet can overdose on lifeblood and says that it's a threat to her life (or something along those lines)||

[near sequoia]

Hunter mentions it in one of his journal entries and Salubra mentions it in one of her charm descriptions

[wanton zephyr]

We don’t know to what extend

Lifeblood seems mostly fine as long as it’s not overconsumed

[near sequoia]

Must be a wyrm beacon thing then

[humble current]

I just feel like they didn't eat enough to overdose

[near sequoia]

Joni seems to be fine and I don't think she was reserved when it came to Lifeblood

[wanton zephyr]

Idk what joni did with that thing but it looked pretty bad

[rich tusk]

Because pale king the goat and actually what he has been doing was sucking all the bad properties out of lifeblood which cost his life for the safety of his citizens.
We made the right god famous

[humble current]

Joni doesn't seem fine to me lol

[karmic crescent]

Hunter's part I can believe. But I think Salubra didn't exactly take it just felt the weird sensation coming from the charms

[near sequoia]

Why

[wanton zephyr]

The entire area surrounding her was dense with lifeblood

[near sequoia]

Yes and its described as serene

[humble current]

She's also dead 😭

[karmic crescent]

No Joni is

[wanton zephyr]

As did it around lifeblood core

[humble current]

She's dead gng

[karmic crescent]

He's just called a heretic

[karmic crescent]

Bro bugs can die

[near sequoia]

||No plasmification in sight, on the enemies or Joni herself||

[karmic crescent]

They aren't immortal

I mean pk died

[humble current]

I wouldn't call someone dead 'fine'

[karmic crescent]

A mythical being

[near sequoia]

She's fine in the sense that Lifeblood appears to have had no negative affects on her

[old sentinel]

The Pale King didn't die, it's more like his mind and presence was erased from his corpse

[karmic crescent]

I mean they left a blessing that increases your survivability (although unhealable). Maybe Joni just ran out of masks

[old sentinel]

As said the godseeker kinda

[near sequoia]

Lifeblood in Hallownest is pretty consistently heralded as something amazing and no side affects are observed even when its in excess

[karmic crescent]

Oh

[near sequoia]

Its probably just a beacon thing

[near sequoia]

What do you think dying is vro

[humble current]

I'd put that up to the enviornmet simply being more adapted against lifeblood, since it's native ||(whereas it's foreign to pharloom, where we see plasmification take effect||)

[humble current]

lol yeah maybe

[old sentinel]

The Godseeker said that he was completely erased

[near sequoia]

Yeah he died and left no godly resonance behind

[humble current]

Yes, dead

[karmic crescent]

911 is typing...

[near sequoia]

Ellina and Hunter aren't native and they're just fine

[karmic crescent]

Wait the hunter isn't?

[hybrid whale]

And snails most of them are shamans, in silksong there is more species

[humble current]

They likely didn't have enough to overdose (also why would they be native?)

[humble current]

You have to spoiler tag when talking about silksong

[karmic crescent]

Bro they literally only said silksong

[humble current]

I didn't read what they were replying to lol sorry

[karmic crescent]

The end part ain't even a spoiler

[hybrid whale]

I didn't spoil anything

[humble current]

I just saw 'silksong' 😭

[valid rapids]

I think its also important that like

[near sequoia]

Seems like an unnecessary assumption

[valid rapids]

||I think its implied they were injecting the fauna with lifeblood||

[near sequoia]

And they aren't native

[valid rapids]

Rather than simply consuming it

||Which could maybe have contributed to wormways being so fucked||

[wanton zephyr]

What are the symptoms of || plasmification? || just reanimated?

[wanton zephyr]

Spoiler 👀

[valid rapids]

Wait this is hk lore

Why are we talkingabt this here

[karmic crescent]

Uhh

So basically

[wanton zephyr]

Lifeblood moment

[karmic crescent]

We started with classifying the pale wyrm

And then we ended up here

[wanton zephyr]

Why did we even try to classify the pale wyrm

[karmic crescent]

Beats me

[wanton zephyr]

I walked in mid convo

[valid rapids]

Classify??

[karmic crescent]

Yes

Like arthropods, molluscs, nematodes etc. or more exactly if they are more snake or more worm

[valid rapids]

[humble current]

Now that's a silksong spoiler

[valid rapids]

sybau ...

[karmic crescent]

It then spiralled from my comment that they were leeches and sucking lifeblood and we ended up here

[humble current]

Some guy was trying to compare hk species to real ones

[humble current]

:(

[wanton zephyr]

Or they are sucking on that good devotion of the common bugs XD

[valid rapids]

Hey isnt sporeshroom interesting

The charm is made of mushroom caps and you get it from a weird mass of like upside down mushroom caps? Or mushroom stalks? Just like the shrumal lore tablets

[humble current]

That is interesting...

[blissful crest]

No

@rich tusk read pins

[rich tusk]

Oh come on

Can’t even be sad

[vale oyster]

Its almost the same as this symbol
(skong spoilers)

This is the icon for ||the mr mushroom wish in silksong||

[forest hearth]

bloating, leaking infection, growing appendages, basically normal infection stuff

[hazy temple]

Is there something in the lore telling the relation between the pale kings and the saws?

Did he truly put saws in his kingdom?

[tacit timber]

maybe not to the level in dream white palace but yes, we do learn he was using them

[hazy temple]

For what exactly? Xd

[tacit timber]

well, in the dream they protect the palace against our intrusion, so in life i'd assume they served the same purpose

[inland rivet]

how can we teleport in hk using the dreamnail eventhough we are told its only to use in entering/reading dreams it doesn't connect?

[hot lily]

the saws probably weren't there in the physical palace

[tacit timber]

i'd agree

[hybrid whale]

Yes, cuz why would he put that amount of saws in the palace in the first place? There isn't that much to protect , and it will impede traveling in it

[grave edge]

I think that the king predicted the knight's entire adventure before he supposedly died and created the entire game's challenge scheme, which can justify the game design, the saws were the last level to ensure that the vessel reached him and saved the kingdom knowing the truth

[inland rivet]

i dont think so we knew he had some forsight ability but the problem is that then making the dreamers and letting hornet gard the kingdom secrets would be a waste and also hornet never told in game that she waited for the knight same goes for the dreamer.

[valid rapids]

You use the dream realm to travel
The Dream Nail now holds 900 Essence within its core! Are you surprised that this old kingdom has so many hidden dreams? Yes, you're starting to see them. The connections between us and the dreams we leave behind, like prints in the dust. The time has come for you to learn how to revisit the places connected to you! Hold the Dream Nail tight, wielder, and imagine a great gate opening before you!

Allows the wielder to travel instantly through dream.

[inland rivet]

now the question which ones dreams are those those of the old inhabitant of this ruined kingdom i suppose...

[hot lily]

he did not predict the Knight's return and he is actually dead

nor can the Knight save the kingdom in any meaningful sense because it's already destroyed and abandoned

[blissful crest]

That’s not what we’re told

[inland rivet]

already got showed why dw

[grave edge]

Yes, really. But I believe that the king had precognition abilities but did not use them out of fear of fate, in a desperate attempt or out of loneliness, he wanted to predict before dying, I think the king killed himself instead of dying normally

[inland rivet]

yes but the problem is that if you see the first tablet and not tuto tablet you see that he saw holow nest as the last civilazation

what is a lie with silksong and the story of pharloom

[blissful crest]

we’re told he had precognition

[inland rivet]

I believe that precognitions are not always right by that i mean that those can be changed by a simple action

that is what i believed happend but thats only speculation

[grave edge]

my guess is that the king wanted to make Hallownest a kingdom like North Korea, those inside only believed that that kingdom existed, the same for mindless foreign insects

[inland rivet]

.

.

.

[hot lily]

that's not at all an accurate comparison

[inland rivet]

true

[inland rivet]

NORTH KOREA seriously...

[inland rivet]

the pale king aspired for a more free kingdom he was intalled a mind to think at the bugs in return those bugs looked at him as a god and made kings idols if i am right

[grave edge]

He demanded devotion just for himself, for me, he wanted to emphasize that only in Hallownest would insects have these prestige

I think the king is authoritarian and absolutist, and truthful, in a way

[inland rivet]

no then lems dialogue about the kings idol's is not acurate then

@grave edge can you maybe give your definition of the whole lore of halownest before the infection maybe? so i can understand your view point

[still gulch]

Guys what happens to dreams of fallen warriors when we dreamnail them?

I kinda felt bad for gorb so I need to know the truth

[naive rock]

They turn into essense

They turn into dust of their past dreams

They... uhh

Idk anymore

[fresh rune]

They get stuck in the sword

You collect them as dreams

[grave edge]

before infection? huh...
an elder predicted death and dropped his body down a hillside so he could be reborn in a smaller form to unify a kingdom under his command

made a typical insect mating with the white lady who ruled the region and started an expedition (no 33) in the region to be able to demand unique devotion just for himself in order to prevent some from being enemies of others, thus, gently, but authoritatively, he created Hallownest

After naming himself a deity, he expanded and enriched the new kingdom he created, creating this dynasty that captivated the irrational insects and offered them prestiges such as freedom, peace, prosperity and happiness with its power.

the name "Hallownest" reinforces the intention of dynasty by meaning that the kingdom is a nest (colony, group of insects, therefore, synonymous with kingdom) and holy — hallow (separate, pure, which has no connection with what is outside)

the place was not oppressive, on the contrary, the king, seeing that his objective of generating life had been achieved, wanted to revel in the satisfaction, the infection came and destroyed everything, and even after having briefly eradicated it, the radiance won, because there was no one in the kingdom other than the king himself, everything he did was erased, and I think that in solitude he wanted to die, but before, predicting the future, even if afraid of destiny to be sure if the kingdom would come back to life, then he died, Whatever he committed suicide for, the premonition spell was too strong, or he was reborn and left just like wyrm

[inland rivet]

then why did he throw his kin in the abbys

it makes no sense then

[still gulch]

The Pale King saw the inevitable doom of his kingdom he dreamed of making it eternal

[scenic surge]

didn't his kingdom compared to north korea actually have a ton of freedom

[still gulch]

So to seal the radiance he left the vessels in abyss to be born there

[scenic surge]

Like he focused on the kingdoms enrichment and its people

[scenic surge]

There's a reason every faction we know about knows of him and hallownest

[scenic surge]

he and his kingdom have to be special for that to be the case

[inland rivet]

yeah i know im asking to the lore related to what he said

[still gulch]

He would choose the most hollow one -one that was devoid of thought will or emotion- as the hollow knight. He turned to the void whom he thought could defy nature and time. The void was also the arch enemy of the radiance though it antagonized the light of higher beings in general.

[scenic surge]

for the naive hope of being able to stop the infection and save his people?

[inland rivet]

i know

[inland rivet]

👆

[still gulch]

Which one? Pre infection hallownest?

[inland rivet]

yes

bc it doesn't explain it so i asked about it in the lore of the guy

bc i wasn't sure how he saw the lore

[inland rivet]

and im talking about this lore

i know my lore almost good ok so dont bully me (im joking on the last words btw)

man your are swaring me with how much you write

[grave edge]

the ends justify the means. he did it even though he knew it was wrong, but it was the only known way to prevent more deaths

I believe that in desperation, he had to follow his instinct, however immoral it was, he took only one child, in the midst of misery he could mistake the death of the vessels as a form of salvation? In any case, he still wanted to hide his actions from the entire kingdom, and without anyone it was obvious that he would take care of his son in the best way possible, it was the only thing he had to hold on to, the queen had "divorced"

[still gulch]

In ancient times the bugs used to worship the void, the being of darkness itself. They went extinct now for unknown reasons however there was also the light of higher beings opposed to the darkness of the void.

When PK came not all bugs were civilised and were merely driven by their instincts. Pale King like other wyrms pulled the bugs to his thrall and dreamed of creating an everlasting kingdom. Those instinct driven bugs gained intelligence and in return they worshipped him as the "god-king".

The biggest turning point however was when he pulled the Moth tribe (which the radiance gave birth to). The moths as a result forsook, turned their backs and even forgot the radiance. And so the kingdom of hallownest began but this fueled radiance into spreading the infection against pk's attempts at order. However this isn't the topic here.

Deepnest and Hallownest had pretty bad relations. Pale King tried to pull them to his thrall but they denied him, his kingdom and his reign. The Mantis Village and Hallownest had no love for each other either. Mantises were already civilised warrior people who outlived all of their enemies. Pk would make a truce with them in the exchange of keeping the beasts of deepnest at bay.

The bugs in Hallownest were like city folks. Eventually they became weaker, less self sustaining and incapable because they never hunted or fought. The kingdom wasn't perfect either. In city of tears we see the bottom caste, the maggots who are generally looked upon and forced to do menial labour due to their weak and cowardly nature. The higher caste were very influential despite being cowardly, greedy, hedonistic, gluttons.

There were also 5 great knights of hallownest who had great contribution to enforcing pk's order and aiding him in his wars like battle of blackwyrm. Those being Dryya, Hegemol, Ogrim (Dung/White Defender), Ze'emer (Grey Mourner) and Isma.

[inland rivet]

tf how much is this

[still gulch]

For other out there feel free to correct

[inland rivet]

so @grave edge please read this

[inland rivet]

i mean its outmost correct i feel like

[grave edge]

Omg

Wait

[grave edge]

cool! I didn't think about insects "rotting" due to a sedentary lifestyle, it's a very realistic reality and even critical of our society,

the rest I believe is completely correct

[outer abyss]

he just becomes part of the void not specificly shade lord so i suppose dream no more is quite a good ending

[wanton zephyr]

Ok first of
The delicate flower doesn’t destroy the void

So Godhome ending 2 is still viable

[outer abyss]

it repels it right?

[wanton zephyr]

Void given form made || an appearance in Pharloom || so DNM is viable

|| Void given focus appear in a flash, so godhome ending 1 viable too ||

Also pls spoiler tag all Silksong content mentioned here

At least those 3 I know for sure can lead to Silksong

The first 2 endings where the knight becomes the new seal cannot lead to silksong || true ending ||

But (the other SK endings are still possible with the at least the hollow knight ending)

(Idk about the sealed sibling one cuz idk how seals work lol. Maybe the seals on the temple door is just simply more advanced and || Pharloom bugs || can’t break it, or maybe they can, I don’t know)

?

The hollow knight?

Again
Either dream no more or Godhome endings are likely

So their fate is undetermined

It could be dead
Could be alive

We don’t know

Who knows

THK was severely weakened by that point

She would be fighting a disabled and severely injured person

Her chances of winning are there if they do fight

Yes because it was empowered by the radiance from within

Now that she’s gone
What power is left

I mean sure but she is still a strong warrior of hallownest in her own rights

We simply don’t know

Cuz they never fight

Radiance is untouchable in the dream realm to PK

Erm

He’s not a machine designed to beat radiance

And we don’t know his combat capabilities cuz we
Never saw him fight

I think ur mixing up the abbreviations

PK is pale king

PV is pure vessel

Which one

Ok then we still don’t know if PV is able to beat Radiance if they can physically fight

In the end, the only one capable of bringing her down is nothingness itself

I mean
I don’t see why it would be the case

I don’t think he lost any fraction of power after reforming into bug form

He’s still a higher being in his own rights

We know that she comments on him

We don’t know for sure if she had contact

Spoiler tag Silksong content pls

This is HK lore

In any case from HK lore I don’t really know if there’s any concrete evidence that Hornet has contact with PK

He
Didnt?

They didn’t make it up

They climbed
They failed
They fell
They died

He did nothing to them except made them

No idea

In my personal opinion
She’s younger

My reasoning is that PV should have taken a while to be trained and raised

And Hornet is said to only spend little time with her mother, before Herrah is asleep forever

So Hornet should have been born just a bit earlier than the day THK got sealed in the temple

Maybe a few years or so

[pure inlet]

No way to know but you’re probably right

Having a vessel was more important than all 3 dreamers

You don’t even really need a dreamer if THK is strong enough

It’s just so bugs don’t go snooping

[wanton zephyr]

Clearly he can function with 2 dreamers or even 1

Seeing as the temple just snatch up Hornet as its new seal immediately

I mean it only need to be strong enough to fight off intruders

Radiance is just supposed to be sealed in its mind forever

The reason it needed to be strong is so it doesn’t die

Well
It failed because it had an “idea”

What idea? Nobody knows

White lady says it was tarnished by “an idea instilled”

[pure inlet]

It probably wasn’t directly targeted by an idea exactly as WL says it

[wanton zephyr]

I mean it is also possible it’s love
Just a fan theory ofc
But the cutscene at the end of path of pain reveals that the pale king, at least, feel a bond with it

[pure inlet]

It’s a bit of a misdirection for sure

But she also says that we’re free of blemishes at that point

[wanton zephyr]

Whether it actually reply to that affection, nobody knows

[pure inlet]

She can’t sense Void directly so she probably just didn’t know it always had the potential to be tarnished

The idea instilled she talks about is like proof of it being impure but not the reason

Probably let himself waste away due to grief

[wanton zephyr]

In his defense
If the void functioned how he thought it should the plan would have worked

[pure inlet]

He doesn’t have the void eyes and he would have shined pretty brightly

So it’s likely not void

[wanton zephyr]

But his understanding of the void was flawed

It was never pure in the way he defined it

No

I’d even say it was never there

[reef oriole]

Can someone tell me about ||lifeblood|| lore

[wanton zephyr]

Until the knight united the void under its will

Directionless, chaotic, nothingness

With fractured will to consume anything and everything it touches

He made an egg with white lady

Or many eggs

Idk

No the egg that you saw in birthplace

Him and white lady get together and she gave birth to eggs

Then they threw them into the abyss

[pure inlet]

Pale King put the eggs in the void so the void would seep into the egg and puppet the fetuses

[wanton zephyr]

The void hollowed out the fetus before they were even born

[pure inlet]

Void has a fragmented mind of its own but it can respond to “imprints” of other minds or soul commands

[wanton zephyr]

And so the vessels are void puppeteering fetus corpses

[pure inlet]

The vessel project was hinged on the idea that a void-imprinted corpse with the mind of a fetus would be enough of a “blank slate” to hold Radiance

[wanton zephyr]

They are physically hollow, but never pure

[pure inlet]

Nope

[wanton zephyr]

Yes

Both of them

They
Just don’t have a voice
Lol

The insides are all hollowed out

[pure inlet]

Void hollowed them out pre vocal cords

[wanton zephyr]

Vocal cords and all

No

But also death is likely not canon to the lore either

The knight should have never died on its journey cuz death is the end

[green pilot]

Anything shade related is still like canon but the ability to respawn isn't

[wanton zephyr]

Some way unknown to both you and I

[green pilot]

We don't know

Not even the devs

[wanton zephyr]

Clearly there are other ways to get out, we just don’t know where

They just said yea they escaped

How? Nobody knows

[green pilot]

My guess is there are some openings in the walls that are very hard to reach but it's possible

But we really don't know 🤷‍♂️

[wanton zephyr]

Quirrel looks nothing like vessels

[green pilot]

Not really

[wanton zephyr]

Also
Any similarities between vessels and bugs are because

Guess what their shells are
That’s right
Bug fetus shells

They are made to look like bugs

[green pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gif-19047173

Like

That's not really alike

All characters have the white face black eyes

[wanton zephyr]

The vessels have no eyes

You can see it clearly on official art

They are
Hollow

[green pilot]

Well

Yeah

But like

[wanton zephyr]

I mean the shade can

The shell just doesn’t have actual eyes lol

[green pilot]

Those are their like eye holes

[wanton zephyr]

It’s a socket

No it can see

[green pilot]

I just call them eyes for convinience

[wanton zephyr]

I’m saying is they don’t have bug eyes

They are shades
Seeing through the
Eye sockets
Of the shell

The sockets are hollow

There’s only void behind it

Void eyes

Or something

Void given form

[green pilot]

I mean pale kings eyes are also kind of like that

Just no void

[wanton zephyr]

Idk

I’m pretty sure Hornet has full eyes so I don’t see why PK wouldn’t

But honestly we don’t have official art of PK to know

[green pilot]

Im referring to that one artwork of the pale court thing

[wanton zephyr]

Which one

If ur talking about the mod
It’s fanmade

[green pilot]

Like this one

I'm about

[wanton zephyr]

Yea that’s fanmade lol

[green pilot]

80% sure it's official

Is it??

[wanton zephyr]

The mod is fanmade and so is the art

[green pilot]

I have seen this being said to be "official" twice

I'm gonna go double check rq

[wanton zephyr]

Then take it to #sk-lore

We can’t answer Silksong questions here if it isn’t in relation to HK questions

[pure inlet]

The art isn’t fanmade I think it’s in the files

Weirdly

But the mod is yeah

[green pilot]

The mod is yes

but yeah im pretty sure that this is official artwork

or atleast some kind of restored version idk

anyhow it has pale kings eyes being hollow

in a way

actually

[green pilot]

im not sure about this

#sk-lore

[near sequoia]

That's not the mod

This is from the HK vinyl iirc

[sand stump]

Theress a bunch of bugs like that

the bugs in Hallownest only have orange cuz they're infected

wait wait

I just read

are you arguing that the Vessels don't have eyes because its the shade looking through the sockets of Shells?

[near sequoia]

nvm just a deleted blogpost

[hot timber]

I LOVE TALKING ABT LORE

why i didnt saw this

canal

[sand stump]

REAL

[grave edge]

Me too

Do you imagine the pale king in what way?

[lunar umbra]

Hi

Ayo why i can't join any vc's?

[sand stump]

I see him as an embodiment of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
I see what he did was horrible but he did it for a good cause, he wanted to save all of his kingdom but didn't take everything into account and eventually failed in his plan where he would then go out and hide away with his last loyal followers into a guarded memory of the White Palace
Where he would then die by slowly disconnecting himself from his soul as he did with everyone else he loved and cared about

[near sequoia]

You need 150 messages

[grave edge]

true, but I was talking about appearance

[echo valve]

i would honestly bet that the pale king sacrificed more vessels to the void than the amount of bugs that actually inhabited his kingdom

especially if we exclude the independent groups (deepnest, the mantises, the mosskin, the hive) that werent even actually part of his kingdom

[near sequoia]

idk why you would assume that nor why you would exclude independent groups who would be affected by the decision too

[humble current]

ME TOO

I like talking about things that are impossible to prove/disprove tho so you don't argue as much :)

Although ofc arguing about lore is still fun

[echo valve]

cause he didnt actually rule them but i guess it makes sense to include them when talking about the infection, except the mantises cause they were still unaffected

as for the numbers theres not been an estimate on how many bugs lived at hallownests prime but ccmaci did a bunch of math and estimated like 4m vessels in the abyss and im using that as my point of reference

hallownest is actually not that big, and though we dont see all of it, we see most of it

[near sequoia]

There are a lotta infected mantises

[echo valve]

the traitors

[humble current]

Where?

Oh nvm lol

[echo valve]

i forgot about them but its still less than half of the tribe

[near sequoia]

Idk how CCmaci arrived at those numbers but its worth noting that it doesn't really matter too much how many there were when Pale King was trying to stave off the infection who's victims can breed forever

[humble current]

I doubt infected bugs could live forever

[near sequoia]

Yeah that's why they reproduce

Uninfected bugs also reproduce so potential lives were also at stake and sacrificing the vessels to save the region as a whole would've still been the better tradeoff

[echo valve]

by counting how many vessel masks there were on the x and y axes of the abyss and multiplying and then using the amount of vessel masks in the background to figure out the z axis and then adding that together

[near sequoia]

Neat

[echo valve]

im not talking about how many bugs there were in hallownest including the future generations i mean the amount there were only at hallownests peak, and i think that amount is likely less than 4 million

the largest number the population ever was < 4 million vessels in the void

[sage bronze]

That’s very bad math that ignores a whole lotta shit like eggshells contributing to volume

[echo valve]

i think even if u halved it

i just dont think hallownest seems to be that big of a kingdom

[humble current]

Compared to real life? Of course not, it's a video game

[near sequoia]

City of Tears big asf

I mean less than 2 million citizens seems plausible ig but I don't really think that paints the full picture because the region is also filled with like animals and plants n stuff

[signal marlin]

it should be noted that this is very poor methodology

[echo valve]

the majority of those the pale king ruled would have lived in the city and we see a few spires in the background and we see inside of two of the spires and they're not that big

[humble current]

Mogged by ||the Citadel||

[sage bronze]

We see spires fading into the background the cot cavern is massive

[signal marlin]

tammo is back

[echo valve]

when counting the population of a country u dont include the animals and plants

[echo valve]

compared to the bugs that live there

[near sequoia]

I know I just don't think its a very useful observation

[echo valve]

it wasnt meant to be a useful observation it was just a random thought i had ?? "the pale kings kids outnumbered the citizens in the kingdom he was using them to save" just sounds crazy, thats all

[near sequoia]

fair enough

[near sequoia]

I lowk thought it was meant to be some sort of rebuttal to this but reading up that doesn't really seem to be the case, my bad

[echo valve]

i wasnt expecting any response

other than 'damn thats crazy, anyway'

[grave edge]

Well, there's really no way to know.
Even though it's a game, I think that according to the story, the number of inhabitants of Hallownest is greater than the vessels. In insect colonies there are a lot of citizens, and I don't think the probability of making an empty vessel is greater than that.

[lucid delta]

check server announcements

[echo valve]

insect colonies do tend to be huge but the vessels are half root, and plants can spread just as quickly and with less effort (what im saying is it wouldnt be difficult to make a lot of vessels)

[hard pine]

Is soul master fat naturally or is it the soul

[indigo venture]

Soul

[lucid delta]

yes

[indigo venture]

We see them deflate ingame

[hard pine]

Ok thats what i was curious about

Cause the other spell twisters are fat but dont get thinner

[sterile cairn]

The knight is a prince right?

[wanton zephyr]

I mean
No

It’s a corpse of a child of the king and queen yea but I don’t think it has a royal title

[grave edge]

closest to prince is THK

[wanton zephyr]

Also if Prince was supposed to imply that it’s male, that’s also no

[grave edge]

true

the vessels have no gender, they probably do not have the capacity to reproduce either, the void has distorted many of their characteristics

[indigo venture]

The Knight becomes the ruler of hallownest when obtaining King's mark

[hot lily]

they are sexless but don't necessarily remain genderless

[indigo venture]

Ye

Only tk and THK

are confirmed genderless

[hot lily]

no not even tk or thk

[indigo venture]

TC said it

[hot lily]

it's probable TC conflated sex with gender

[indigo venture]

[willow hazel]

galien died in deepnest from challenging what was inside right?

[grave edge]

Yes

[willow hazel]

depending on when this happened, is there a chance the poor guy got jumped by weavers?

[grave edge]

Yes

[pure inlet]

He might have been

Or like a Nosk

[karmic crescent]

Not exactly. Hornet tells the Knight to claim themself as King if they will to do so. They don't become the ruler. I believe "king" here means the power to choose/change the world's fate if they are willing to take the harder path (from dialogue after acquiring shade cloak)

[split compass]

well, they become king enough that the seal on the Abyss opens up in response to the brand, so it's not completely figurative

[wanton zephyr]

I mean, Mask Maker reacts this way to the king's brand

A bug that lay claim to hallownest as a whole

That's king

The ruler version

[vale oyster]

The ancient civilization tried to rule the entirety of hallownest? 🤔

Or is this about wyrms

Because they're also ancient

[old sentinel]

Quite a few npcs react to the king's brand, like Eternal Emilita saying that you have "something almost regal about you", so it's definitely an actual thing

[dreamy horizon]

Should I consider the way Tiso died in P5 to be how he died in the real world aswell, it only makes sense

[old sentinel]

Yes, there's a Brooding Mawlek in the trial of the Conqueror

[dreamy horizon]

*fool

Yes

[split compass]

actually (SS spoilerth)
||in light of what the Mask Maker in Pharloom says, I think 'ancient caste' refers to the same thing as 'higher caste' - pale beings
Pharloom's MM says it's pretty typical for the higher caste to ensnare mortal bugs in their service, and for their endeavors to have bad consequences for mortal bugs

Your ancient kind aren't told to abide one another peaceably.
It's always the way, aye? Your ancient kind, vying for dominion, and us mortal bugs squashed unseen underneath.
But isn't it always such for those snared to serve your higher caste?
Pharloom's MM makes no hint at anything to do with the ancient civilization
but his words seem to encapsulate what went down in Hallownest pretty well, i.e. another failed effort by pale beings to rule.||

[vale oyster]

👍

[shadow roost]

Yo guys i just reallised that grimm has the same moveset as the reaper crest so i think its cuz hes the grimm reaper

[outer abyss]

lmao what 😭

[shadow roost]

Idk man i need to get some sleep

[outer abyss]

great idea have a good night

[shadow roost]

Thanks

[vast kernel]

Guys never played hollow knight what's the lore

[empty valve]

gods exist.moth god rules over a bug kindgom.worm god arrives,shapeshifts into a bug form and grants consciousness to insects.the kindgom is advancing,but the moth god is not happy with the followers that have been taken from her,she infects bugs so that they serve her.then the lore gets a bit more complex but basically the worm god and a tree god form a lot of children to contain the moth god,but many of them are not fit for the job and are thrown into the Abyss, (a place with a power/substance known as the void)but eventually one of them seemingly contains the moth god in a prison sealed with the power of 3 special bugs

[empty valve]

you are one of the thrown away children/vessels that climbed out of the abyss and now have to unseal the prison to replace the previous vessel for the moth god(it actually failed and so the kingdom is partially infected)

I tried to simplify it,so I might've missed some important parts,but I tried

[vast kernel]

So um i just fix the kingdom or smth?

[vale oyster]

Temporarily

[empty valve]

kind of

[vale oyster]

Until you (the new vessel) also fail

[vast kernel]

So there is no wining?

[empty valve]

not in all endings,but that might be the case in some

there are multiple endings

[vale oyster]

This is only for 2 endings

[empty valve]

in some you fully kill the moth god

[vale oyster]

Yep

[vast kernel]

Oh

Is the game worth trying?

[vale oyster]

Definitely

[empty valve]

definitely

heh

[vale oyster]

My favourite game

[empty valve]

it's a good game if you like exploration and searching for secrets

[vast kernel]

How many total enditd are there?

[vale oyster]

5

[vast kernel]

Wait so what if I don't kill the moth king?

[vale oyster]

There are 2 endings where you don't kill her, and in those endings you become the new hollow knight

You seal away the moth

[vast kernel]

Oh So I become evil?

[vale oyster]

No

You're supposed to be a mindless entity

Thats why you can seal the moth

[vast kernel]

What if i kill eveyone and eveyone person I see in game

Can u do tahtM?

[vale oyster]

You cant kill npcs

Mostly

[livid cove]

NGL just play the game and you will see, and no this isn't undertale, though some people can be killed not all

[vast kernel]

Aight bet

This lore is sick

I will free the kingdom

[livid cove]

Good luck

[vale oyster]

You can do all endings on the same save file

[vast kernel]

So it's an exploring game?

[vale oyster]

Yes

[livid cove]

Yeah

[vale oyster]

There is no direct objective given to you

Just keep exploring

[vast kernel]

And what if i never kill the king

[livid cove]

Well, at some parts there is an objective, but you don't get told how to do it

[vast kernel]

Uh huh

Then how I know what to fo

Do

[vale oyster]

Yeah you need to pay attention to the dialogue

To understand what to do

[vale oyster]

Look for spots on your map that are incomplete and explore those regions

[livid cove]

Well, you just walk around, go to places where you haven't been, and it all unfolds eventually

Make sure to talk to NPCs

[vast kernel]

So i can't just skip the dialogues?

Bruh

[livid cove]

I discourage it

[vale oyster]

You can do it, but then you won't understand the story

[livid cove]

They hold lore and hints where to go

[vast kernel]

Ohh

Boring game tbh

Are the graphics any cool? The fighting?

[vale oyster]

Let's move to #hk-discussion

[livid cove]

K

[charred gate]

Guys i think i finally thought of a theory about the way vessels grow!

[echo birch]

I didnt

[charred gate]

The Hollow knight is HUGE right ? Broken vessel is kinda big right? What do they both have in common?... They're both infected (not counting the fact that in the abyss cutscene where we see the HK with big horns already, bc we also see in the abyss that vessels can have different shapes). Broken vessel is kinda big bc it's infected. Although the HK contains the whole Radiance. So maybe they grow when infected to contain more of the infection inside of them. So that's why the HK ia so big.

[old sentinel]

I'm pretty sure that they evolve like pokemon as they train like ||Hornet|| in that one cutscene, since they share ||a father||

[pure inlet]

Have you played the dlcs

I don’t want to spoil you

But this isn’t exactly it

[charred gate]

you mean sk or those free updates HK dropped?

[pure inlet]

Free updates

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484683488503529472/1024696888865325116/unknown.png?ex=69266d18&is=69251b98&hm=18060d71f7cbc0c2794baaeaeac9eb2653502d46e6e77cc210b36cba055a65a0&

Here wait I guess this isn’t a spoiler

Someone made this a minute ago

Broken vessel just represents the biggest a vessel can get before being hollowed out in the egg

Infection didn’t make it grow

[charred gate]

ohhh ok.

ok ok

[grave edge]

in fact, the infection could infect them, but vessels are like that by nature, THK was big when it was pure vessel, lost kin was also bigger

With this, I think that more than one receptacle went up the abyss, and when it reached the top, it was thrown

[vast kernel]

Hey guys

The knight in hollow knight what's the lore

I don't understand

Pls explain in simple terms

[pure inlet]

Child of pale king and white lady exposed to void before birth, making it a void animated corpse

Part of a project to create a suitable void vessel to seal Radiance

[restive fog]

so do you know the muffin man

[tacit timber]

it could've also been that some vessels molted/grew a little and others didn't. they didn't necessarily all die instantly. or yeah they could have been born big too

[hot lily]

no, vessels don't biologically grow because they're dead

[grave edge]

Hmm, so they're undead? What would be the criteria that would make it impossible for the infection to spread?

[grave edge]

But pure vessel grew with the training

[hot lily]

yes, because that was magically induced

it wasn't something inherent to the vessel

[tacit timber]

so they could have molted or grown with magic too at some point since we have no idea what happens to them

[hot lily]

TK trains and learns a lot throughout the game's course and it never grows

so clearly whatever was done to THK was unique

[grave edge]

pure vessel's description says he was trained to his pure form

[hot lily]

"raised and trained"

[tacit timber]

idk i doubt it's just pk that could induce a molting. it's true that it never comes up for ghost though

[hot lily]

WL could conceivably do it, she has growth powers

[tacit timber]

i think people like snail shamans or mask maker could do it too, that tended to be how i hc'd lost kin

so it wouldn't be able to grow on its own, which i'd agree with

i guess my point's moot since there's nothing else in the abyss so that's not what could have happened to those vessels but yk

[grave edge]

TK's learning in parallel with THK is different, while TK learned to survive, THK trained with maximum efficiency to contain the radiance

It would be the same as buying a bricklayer with a gym muscle. Both lift weights, but for different purposes

[tacit timber]

i was planning on writing a fic where ghost asked mmaker to help growing and he ended up more rootlike than the hollow knight design everyone tends to give adult ghost but idk if ill ever do that

[grave edge]

It couldn't have been WL, she locked herself away as soon as she reproduced

[hot lily]

that's not what she necessarily means

[grave edge]

true, can be interpretation

[indigo venture]

When TK gets sealed in the Dream Realm

by the dreamers

is it just their mind or also their body

[grave edge]

body, in the black egg temple he is the same way

[hot lily]

it's both, and in certain endings (ETV) their physical body is completely gone

[dusky relic]

tru

[blissful crest]

no she didn’t

[urban jolt]

Have you freaking memorized every lorewise detail in hollow knight and silksong

Did u worked in team cherry

[sand stump]

nah its just burned into our conscience

[ionic quiver]

Would the pale king beat hornet in a fight in his form as we see him in White Palace?

I’m trying to settle a debate.

[hot lily]

that's irrelevant

[inner crown]

Well if would be different because Hornet was trained by Queen Vespa

Bc Queen Vespa is a fighter

And the Pale King is a higher being

[grave edge]

guys, 3 theories about the vessels

(lot of messages)

1 – Impetuosity Factor
I believe that the perfect vessel had to have this characteristic, it consists of carrying out unstoppable actions without hesitation, carried out almost by reflex, a perfect movement to execute an action, with the least possible effort, for those who understand Demon slayer, you will understand. I think this is clear when Hornet says this to TK in the city of tears, "your resistance is the result of two voids" we know that these two voids are from oblivion and the abyss, which implies that TK won the fight with Hornet on the greenpath due to this factor, not due to a physical factor since Hornet was much stronger than him. Hornet judged that the TK was not empty, and adjusted her strength accordingly to test if it was empty, the other possible vessels that found her probably died due to hesitation and feelings, and to win against the protector, only someone who fought in a perfect and irrational way, with the intention of killing and not stopping fighting until the last second

This was also the factor that filtered exactly the perfect vessel into the abyss. Not everyone could go up, either to leave their brothers behind, or to have an adequate physical size that would help them stand out better than the others. Insects react cooperatively and have apathy irrationally, these imperfect vessels could not leave their brothers behind, but others could have traces of selfishness; the perfect vessel would climb without worry, as quickly as possible and independent of the body. That's why I believe there was a second filter on the edge of the abyss to name who the empty vessel was, maybe they killed themselves, and only the chosen one remained, and the vessels are different, some bigger than others, and even the skull is different due to the horns

2 - TK doesn't have feelings, or does he?
I believe that team cherry wanted to leave it open so that we could have different interpretations, as there are factors that indicate both, and nothing that says exactly what is right. TK may have been born with feelings, he left Hallownest and lost his memory, perhaps this aligned this sentimental trait of his, ending any memory (no matter how bad it may be) which was the only thing he had, a desolate child born to die, without parents and without destiny, there was nothing left for him, so oblivion could have destroyed any shred of futile emotion he had

Hornet's speech in the previous theory reinforces this, and he acquires an empty heart, inheriting the role of savior of Hallownest, as the chosen prince who will do this to end everything his father wanted, and also for his brothers. It would be nice to think about it that way, however the actions that we players do in the game reflect feelings, in addition to the fact that acquiring an empty heart does not necessarily require that the bearer be empty, but that they have emptiness, || and now with the true ending of silksong, it could be more evidence, although I will disbelieve it ||

3 - TK has a soul and void.
In my view, the abyss filter arose from the need to create a vessel that could contain the radiance in your mind, but that was taken for void, and that no fraction of feeling could be the opening for the infection to come again. In the initial cutscene, we see that THK's mind is filled with emptiness, but later becomes infected, as he was flawed by feelings that are not evident in the scene.
Soul is vital energy that animates all beings, bringing them life, and Void, we don't have a very precise speculation, but it is a source capable of containing anything, || except paleness, in the everbloom and in the king's lighthouse ||
Based on this, a receptacle would have to be the perfect balance between soul and void, void takes all of itself, and was the substance that would cause the infection to eradicate, while soul was what would allow a mind for radiance to be contained. For the abyss to be right, the creation of a vessel needed to be beyond anyone's capabilities, something dependent on luck or probability.

[slender kite]

I have a question, did Hornet fight the broken vessel and he ended up like that or did he sustain the mega skull fracture from something else?

[grave edge]

I ask you to forgive me for many messages

[slender kite]

Immediately forgiven.

[grave edge]

Oh thanks!

[grave edge]

Probably yes

[slender kite]

Figured.

[grave edge]

I mean, at the moment the skull would have broken he would have died, so if it was Hornet, she killed him there, but he has a nail skills and is in a place inaccessible by ordinary means, so I suppose he had some hidden training with a knight, was sought out by Hornet, died in the place that made Hornet evacuate perhaps through the light seed colony, and broke the possible bridge that led to the other place, already accessed by the king at some point when he deposited his wings there

[blissful crest]

considering the mawleks in the area

most likely those

[slender kite]

It would’ve been awesome to fight him with him having the monarch wings.

Flying Broken Vessel.

[slender kite]

Possibly.

But I’m pretty sure he could’ve beaten those.

[indigo venture]

Well they aren-t dead

And It is

SO

[slender kite]

Fair.

[grave edge]

If they had the silksong mentality, they would have done

[indigo wolf]

From the form of their head, how did the Pure Vessel/The Hollow Knight put their armor on?

[pure inlet]

Actually a good question

Was probably just strapped to its back or something

[ebon patio]

they barely have any armor they just put on shoulder plates

[indigo wolf]

What about the chest plate?

[ebon patio]

they had one??

[indigo wolf]

Yes

[wanton zephyr]

I mean it’s probably just
Y know
Clip over the shoulder

One piece in the front

[ebon patio]

yeah'

[blissful crest]

It’s pauldrons and a back covering