hk-lore

[wanton zephyr]

His plan banked on the fact that the void is pure and untarnishable

[lusty rose]

true

[wanton zephyr]

And radiance can never corrupt it

[swift apex]

There was a tweet, comment or something that I remember team cherry saying that they don't agree with each other on some parts of the lore, does anyone knows where that comment was?

[hot lily]

that's what PK thought happened, not necessarily what happened objectively

[still gulch]

I mean my theory is that Void is the antithesis to Higher Beings light so instinctively they came after the light of pk.

[still gulch]

To be fair Void is indeed pure. It has no will, emotion or thought on its own. It doesn't even have a voice not even the discarded vessels regretful of their very existence.

Though guys correct me if I am wrong

[hot lily]

this is incorrect

[still gulch]

Where

Is the part I am wrong with explanation

Bruh

[indigo venture]

Void is naturally agressive

to like

everything

[hot lily]

void can think on its own & make decisions for itself as told by Ellina in the WJ book

[indigo venture]

Ellina coming up in clutch once more

[still gulch]

Oh well never heard of that before

[indigo venture]

W Ladybug

[still gulch]

Why is the "godseeker" so displeased with us?

[prisma zenith]

i guess because it got into godhome by itself

they didn't attune the knight

[rugged comet]

Godseeker - Cutscene - First Entry to Godhome

Blasphemy! Rank blasphemy!
Thou crawler! Thou cringer! Thou smallest of the small!
By what right dost thou trespass here, in this home of the Gods? Shrivel away and begone! Begone!

@kingoclowns used /npcs quest name: Godseeker category: Cutscene dialogue: First Entry to Godhome

[split compass]

according to the Hall of Gods statue, they don't recognize TK as a god (until much later, anyway)
and they recognize practically everything as a god.
no 'godly resonance'... whatever that is

[placid violet]

Can someone please tell me every last piece of lore p

[slow valley]

same bruh

was gonna ask the sme

[mighty dove]

She’s a bit of an asshole

[chilly prism]

Tbf you do invade her mind and disrupt her attunement process, she had no idea you would become what she was looking for

[slender kite]

That’s her fault for being a vegetable.

[hazy temple]

The void was the pale king's creation or it was already there before him?

[hot lily]

latter

[haughty thistle]

What’s up with that room in the colo of fools

[pure inlet]

One of the things we don’t really have a canon explanation for

It might have been a room utilized by the ancient civilization for some purpose it has unique architecture

[haughty thistle]

Ah okay

[pure inlet]

But there’s nothing about it concretely

[haughty thistle]

I saw it when I was getting my last charm

And I wondered what it was

[pure inlet]

Oh wait do you know what happens in it

[haughty thistle]

no

I mean like

I saw it

When I was getting my charm slot

And I didn’t know what it was

[pure inlet]

If you die to the colosseum your shade gets in that room

[haughty thistle]

oh what the heck

Well I don’t die

So I dk

Trust

[pure inlet]

It’s mostly gameplay so when you die the shade isn’t like wandering around the colosseum

Peak

[haughty thistle]

I get that tc

Said that like

there’s no true ending but like

what would you consider the like true true ending

[rare hinge]

doesn't the dream warriors giving soul when you hit them contradict lore

since they're like. incorporeal

[pure inlet]

Uhhh

Okay let’s see

[sand stump]

No

Because they have soul

[pure inlet]

If you haven’t played the sequel game I don’t want to spoil you

[sand stump]

So you can get soul

[haughty thistle]

I’ve seen too many clips of it to care

I know that one ending in ss

You can like

[pure inlet]

When you challenge the dream warriors you sort of “materialize” them

[haughty thistle]

see the knight and sush

Such

[pure inlet]

Their essence creates a tangible form I guess

[sand stump]

All are canon
Though I lean to DNM personally

[haughty thistle]

Yeah same

I’m doing DNM rn actually

[rare hinge]

dn

[sand stump]

Fire fire

[haughty thistle]

I just liked it because I just wanted to get void heart rlly

[pure inlet]

Silksong spoilers: since the ||Knight has control of the void, the “true” ending in the context of which continues the story is either Dream No More or Embrace the Void (Godhome)||

[haughty thistle]

Yeah fair fair

def not sealed siblings tho

like no go

[pure inlet]

Nope

[haughty thistle]

I’ve seen this one guy

Like a seal that does more

[sand stump]

I think that was the first ending I got 😭

[haughty thistle]

Lore

[pure inlet]

Still technically “canon” but probably like as its own pathway

[haughty thistle]

😭

[haughty thistle]

Probably

What yall want to be the next game

[hot lily]

hi

[sand stump]

I was entirely confused thinking " WHAT?? WHY"

[crystal sparrow]

gun.

[sand stump]

Heyo

[brave pecan]

I think that room is where they punished those who lost.

[haughty thistle]

So torture

like

[crystal sparrow]

Or follows queirl (My spelling is horrible)

[pure inlet]

If you lose in Colo you die

[haughty thistle]

getting hit over and over

[pure inlet]

There’s no torture

[haughty thistle]

oh yeah

I forgot abt that

[sand stump]

It's some remnant from the old civilization, probably just to harness Void

[haughty thistle]

I never die again

So I wouldn’t know

😂✌️

[crystal sparrow]

...

[haughty thistle]

What

[brave pecan]

Yes, there are wrestlers' bodies in the room.

[crystal sparrow]

dyno told me to "watch my language"

[haughty thistle]

imagine

Couldn’t be me

[crystal sparrow]

Nah, its lost kin's gaming setup

[haughty thistle]

I never get warnings

😂✌️

[crystal sparrow]

sigh

[haughty thistle]

I’m sorry

I gotta flex yk

How I’m like

So much better

[crystal sparrow]

yap yap yap

It wasnt even a swear word

pmo

[crystal sparrow]

You will one day

one day

[haughty thistle]

I’m too tuff for that

😂✌️

[rugged beacon]

l

l

[valid rapids]

Hey remember Galien's room

Oh dang no image perms

Anyways isnt it WEEIIIIRD that it has giant mushrooms and we see mini versions taking over all of Deepnest

And remember what the shrumals say about deepnest

[rugged comet]

Lore Tablet: Fungal Wastes - Near Deepnest

This border bounds the twisting, scratching things.
Their dead sire, once of honoured caste.
Their sealed mother, but the common beast.
No peace with them we make.

@mushspore used /lore-tablets area: Fungal Wastes name: Near Deepnest

[valid rapids]

Clearly the dead sire was honored by the shrumals bc the DEAD SIRE USED TO BE A SHRUMAL

The dead sire left the shrumals and went to Deepnest to make his own fungal wastes and thats why the shrumals say he used to be honored by them

[pure inlet]

I would sob

Keep cooking mush

[tough scaffold]

I think the knight hates their entire family.
His dad threw them into the abyss.
His mom told him to sacrifice themselves.
All of his siblings have tried to kill him.

[pure inlet]

Well it offers WL a flower

Probably aren’t any hard feelings there

[hot lily]

We have no idea of what TK thinks 99% of the time

[valid rapids]

I mean as far as it knows it was born in the Abyss and thats totally normal

The eggs were placed there before hatching, it wasnt throwing orphans to their death

[tough scaffold]

fair but if the thk has impurities there's a chance that the knight might too

[hot lily]

thk was impure because of flawed creation, but yes

[obsidian nymph]

hi

[jaunty gyro]

Maybe

[charred gate]

"No cost too great."
"No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering. Born of God and Void."
"You shall seal the blinding light that plagues their dreams. You are the Vessel. You are the Hollow Knight."

No mind to think

[cunning gale]

thats what he was going for , dosent mean it came into fruition

[narrow zinc]

When can I heal will fighting mantis lords

[lusty rose]

Bro this is lore channel

[lusty rose]

It wouldn't make sense if knight thought though, considering their insides are filled with void, and they probably don't have a brain

[cunning gale]

1st off wrong channel, 2nd off when one of the mantis lords are on the wall and launching a spinny slash at you from below when u jump over and land you can heal, wont work for when it comes above

[narrow zinc]

Oh k and sry

[cunning gale]

yeah thk was filled with void too, yet he has an imperfection so whats stopping the knight

[lusty rose]

The thk has an emotion instilled through its time at the white palace and the knight goes into the wastes outside of hallownest and returns later

The wastes seem to be a place where you don't think very much

[cunning gale]

theres no way the knight went through the entire kingdom of hallownest with everything hes been through and hasent felt something, tk agreed to help save the kingdom and fight the Radiance too it had to have felt something inside of it to want to help against TR

[lusty rose]

"the the hollow knight " 😭

[cunning gale]

I aint even see that first time

[tidal owl]

Sorry for the sudden interruption, I just needed to get this out there before I forget. Tweaking my made up Xero lore a little:

Maybe as he's cutting away at the infection in his dreams, he gets closer to the source of the infection. As that happens, the radiance decides that this was the perfect time to twist around this dream.

I don't know how to properly explain it but at the infection's core, Xero finds an infected pale king, wings spread open, spreading the infection far and wide. He takes down the infected king in his dreams, then he wakes up. That's how he came to the conclusion that he has to kill the king to stop the infection.

I went back to actually analyse his dialogue more and this seemed more canon than my previous "miraculous ladybug" ahh manipulation thing.

He was misled and that brought him to his eventual execution.

[lusty rose]

One could chalk up the knight making active decisions as a gameplay thing

It would be a pretty bad idea to not let the player move or control the character in any way

[cunning gale]

are you implying that we the player are some force controlling the knight

[tidal owl]

My previous theory was that he was manipulated but after actually looking into his stuff more, he doesn't mention much about manipulation

[lusty rose]

Yes

[cunning gale]

that wouldnt make much sense because all of the other vessels could move too and some of them even weilded weapons and explored the kingdom like the knight

[lusty rose]

Side tangent: doesn't that mean that the void has some kind of thoughts? The void tentacles make the active decision to lash out at the player in the game

Siblings choose to attack the player

[cunning gale]

so the whole Idea of a completley pure vessel was impossible from the start if thats the case

[lusty rose]

But then what, the shade lord is impure or something?

How does that work

[spark siren]

Guys is there no grey prince zote fight if you dont save bretta?

[cunning gale]

is the void a hivemind of sorts? i mean it dosent make sense for anything else

[cunning gale]

no if you save zote you gotta fight him in pantheons

[spark siren]

i thought the whole point was that the Knight wasnt a pure vessel so thats why he killed the radiance instead of contain it

[cunning gale]

if anything I think tk is less "pure" than thk

[spark siren]

yeah thk was tarnished by the expectations of his dad ngl

[lusty rose]

Ok there was this one silksong description that I think related to this

[cunning gale]

tarnished because his father loved him too much

[split compass]

the Void does have something like a capacity for mind/memory etc.
it's like a huge soup of disconnected thought
but it has an aversion to strong light, it hungers of soul, it can influence bugs with subtle insidious calls, etc.
there's something going on in there

[lusty rose]

The || ancient egg from silksong has a description related to this ||

I don't remember it exactly

[cunning gale]

yeah that makes sense ngl I like your explanation for it

[spark siren]

aint the voidheart just the ability to unite the void's hive mind under its user??

[simple scaffold]

The weird shape in Hornets Room in Hollow Knight, is that a crest from Silk Song?

[split compass]

basically yeah - TK brings all that disconnected power, the 'power without unity' of the Void, under their singular will

[cunning gale]

how else would tk become the shade lord

[lusty rose]

|| "...No will... No self... Shade..." ||

[spark siren]

also is the shade lord the strongest higher being? in the pantheons its huge!

[split compass]

the strongest one we've seen so far

[cunning gale]

why is void a liquid

[lusty rose]

I find this interesting as the knight's corpse is called shade whereas the siblings are just siblings

[split compass]

the chillest state of matter

[cunning gale]

its like really black water

but also sturdy enough to break things and hold its shape

[lusty rose]

And has like tentacle thingies in it

[cunning gale]

yeah but thats just void making those shapes

[simple scaffold]

Its a non Newtonian fluid

[split compass]

siblings are basically the shades of other vessels
what's really cool is ||that the creators of the Arcane Egg knew about Shades... the other lore tablets are related to this too||

[lusty rose]

Yeah that's interesting

[simple scaffold]

They have the exact same characteristics when touched its hard when left alone its a liquid

[split compass]

liquid is handy - you can turn into either solid or vapor real quick if you want to

[cunning gale]

dosent act like a solid when anything interacts with it though just becomes sharp

[haughty thistle]

Wait what if zote cracked grand mother silk and that’s how hornet was born 😱😱😱

Sorry

[lusty rose]

Perhaps there was some kind of like... ritual sacrifice by the void worshipping civilizations that ended up with a shade afterwards?

[cunning gale]

this isnt even remotley close gng wth

[haughty thistle]

goated theory tho right

Js saying

wait

[simple scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/tai-lo-gif-7790910211250344374

[haughty thistle]

I forgot

[lusty rose]

Sounds like something you'd do if you were trying to appease a void god

[cunning gale]

litreally disporven by the game itself

[haughty thistle]

Shush

😔

[split compass]

maybe... the tablets make it sound like something they wanted to happen
maybe one day they all went down into the darkness and just... never came back out

[cunning gale]

the pale king and herrah the beast bro

[haughty thistle]

I know

I forgot okay

[lusty rose]

Perhaps future silksong dlc will give us more info on this

Very interesting ideas tho

[vale oyster]

They didn't have any god though

[cunning gale]

thats if they think to, but considering how detailed team cherry is I doubt we wont get more info on this

[lusty rose]

Well they worshipped the void itself so that's probably more accurate

[cunning gale]

the whole void collective was their god ig

[split compass]

if a theory involves zote doing anything significant or interesting it's wrong automatically
that's the zote law

[lusty rose]

Nah zoteboat dlc

Big zote lore coming

[split compass]

if it's funny or pathetic then it's okay

[cunning gale]

if they actualy dropped this what would people think

[lusty rose]

I would literally sell my soul for zoteboat

[split compass]

they're actually introducing a new NPC, Percival

so you'll get the percivalsubmersible

[cunning gale]

I think they might bring back the silver assasins that were cut from the game

[lusty rose]

Percivalsubmerisble!!

[split compass]

I think you're right

[cunning gale]

i summoned a steel city fan

[vale oyster]

Steel city mentioned ‼️ ‼️
(this conversation is getting too skong to be in this channel)

[split compass]

that's true...

[cunning gale]

yeah

I mean.. half of the name is hollow knight sooo

[split compass]

steel town on a saturday night~🎶

[tidal owl]

Adding more stuff about it

[tropic adder]

Guys why was the godseeker in the junkpit i thought they were holy

[mystic lagoon]

they were taking a very long nap

and then the terrain naturally shifted and they ended up there

[tropic adder]

Bro

Tell me

[mystic lagoon]

i lowkey dont know

🐟

[supple plover]

is it me or are grandmother silk and the pale king are very very similiar

[mystic lagoon]

they are both pale beings, gods, and are both technically bad people

[signal marlin]

PK really isnt bad and "technically" cant work in the context either

[mystic lagoon]

but i thought he trap all siblings and use holow knight

[signal marlin]

thats just a descriptive claim. for it to be a moral error you need to do more work

[mossy egret]

Steel city is quite bizzare...

[tropic adder]

It's a pretty bizzare adventure

[keen topaz]

Bro ts is fire what

[karmic crescent]

The pale king isn't really a bad ruler. I mean how often do you get a dictator that increases your IQ

Yes the way it ended up may have been unethical but he literally gave his all to save his nation

[mint meteor]

yes

[hoary fox]

So about godhome

||does the hollow knight become part of the shade lord and is able to control it,or does it become the new shade lord once it fuses with the void ,like the shade lord that existed in the ancient civilization||

[hot lily]

LoS didn't previously exist

the Knight becomes LoS however THK's shade is separate from it regardless

[vale oyster]

Thk didn't become a part of the shade lord, because we see it exiting the black egg during etv

[hoary fox]

Oh my bad ,I was meant to say the knight

[ripe lagoon]

That what I thought too

[hazy temple]

Why did Hornet want to kill every vessel that crosses her way?

[polar wigeon]

Who is the knight we play as?!

[near sequoia]

To prevent them from attempting to supplant THK but failing and freeing Rad

[hazy temple]

Is not like the vessels were blamed for the infection

[graceful prawn]

Technically the moths are responsible for the infection

[still gulch]

From my knowledge she is the protector of the ruins of hallownest. And she will attack anything remotely a "threat". She says she knows very well what kind of thing the knight is, which is one of the failed vessels that escaped, the brother of the Hollow Knight.

[still gulch]

Yes but their betrayal is implied by seer that it started Hallownest.

[covert condor]

Is grandmother silk actually my grandmother or not

[still gulch]

#sk-lore

Why didn't the traitors kill the queen after killing dryya who was her last standing guardian

[pure inlet]

Couple reasons

Either they were worried WL was still strong and didn’t want to die

So they’d just keep her there

Or TL wanted to do it himself but he was too fat to fit through the door

[still gulch]

I mean she is just a tree

She doesn't engage in combat similar to Unn

And before the exile there was a whole ass clash between the mantis lords and traitor lord for embracing the infection that was provoked by the radiance against the last civilization standing strong after the infection.

So yeah they were willing to die for it

[sterile elm]

it's one of the many vessels that were created by the pale king and the white lady to try and contain the infection, but it's one of the few that managed to escape the abyss

[tropic adder]

I thought she didn't wanted her mother to get killed in her sleep

[tropic adder]

Just because we didn't see them fight doesn't mean they can fight

While team cheery didn't give us a answer how do y'all think the vessels escaped the abyss from like we don't see literally any way

[near sequoia]

First encounter

I know what you are. I know what you'd try to do. I can't allow it.
Later in City of Tears
If, knowing that truth, you'd still attempt a role in Hallownest's perpetuation, seek the Grave in Ash and the mark it would grant to one like you.

[half coyote]

Are there any other “not bug creatures” besides slugs and snails?

[hot lily]

Shrumals

[half coyote]

And plants

[knotty imp]

She knew the reason why the Knight was roaming Hallownest, that is to replace the failing Hollow Knight, but she was not certain he was strong enough for it.
Besides, she attacks anyone that attempts to plunder or attempt to set foot in Hallownest, as she did with Quirrel.

[real forge]

And dragons (Wyrms)

[lusty rose]

Huh

Oh i see

I thought you were talking about quirrel 😭

[hot lily]

wyrms aren't dragons canonically

[flint kite]

h

[near sequoia]

What are they then

[indigo venture]

Higher Beings

[fresh rune]

Why does defeating broken vessel an getting the wings start the radiance in the forgotten crossroad

[near sequoia]

They are also higher beings yes

But wyrms are well, wyrms, which are serpentine dragons

[indigo venture]

BK doesn't affect it

My take on Monarch Wings triggering is: it's to show the passage of time

[near sequoia]

To represent the passage of time probably

[indigo venture]

Stole it from me

smh

[near sequoia]

Something similar happens with Crystal Heart and Myla

[indigo venture]

What about Dive

[near sequoia]

Dive too

[fresh rune]

Wait so it is not us who cause it

[indigo venture]

Why would it be

[fresh rune]

That one is to represnt thr passage of time

[fresh rune]

We start unsealing the egg by defeating a dreemer probably

[indigo venture]

I mean yeah

[fresh rune]

Would let a bit of radiance slip

[indigo venture]

but that doesn't affect the infection

The seals of the Dreamers don't affect the infection spreading

That's the seals inside of the temple itself and THK

[fresh rune]

Ok thx

But fron whrre did it infect

[indigo venture]

what

[fresh rune]

All the areas arround it didnt have that much infection

[indigo venture]

It was still infected

[near sequoia]

The infection spreads through the dream realm

[indigo venture]

define "Much infection"

[indigo venture]

And the air

[near sequoia]

Not the air

[indigo venture]

and the veins of Hallownest

[fresh rune]

Those areas dont have big blobs of infection

[indigo venture]

Yes it does

The air is infected

"Sick"

[fresh rune]

Only area to have them is the infected crossroad

[indigo venture]

It probably doesn't cause bugs to be infected

but it still spreads the Infection

[near sequoia]

Not in the sense I was talking about

[indigo venture]

Oh

[fresh rune]

It probably does as the old guy in dirt mouth talks about it

[indigo venture]

Ancient Basin literally had the same thing

The way to Monarch wings is covered by those blobs

[fresh rune]

Ancient basin is in the polar opposite of the map

[indigo venture]

I mean

[fresh rune]

The only big infected thing near crossroad is the egg and the brooding mawlek

[indigo venture]

Are the crystals in Crystal peak infected?

I can't recall

[fresh rune]

No

[indigo venture]

Thanks

[fresh rune]

If they where dirtmouth would have been infected

[indigo venture]

Why

[fresh rune]

The area between crystal peaks and dirtmouse is full of crystals

And it is from top of the mountain

Not the top but near there

So the air would take the infection down

[indigo venture]

The air probably doesn't spread the infection

It just carries it

[fresh rune]

That returns to the original point, why did thr forgotten crossroad suddenly brim with the infection

[indigo venture]

Time passing

[fresh rune]

Elderbugg
Well watch out. It's a sickly air that fills the place. Creatures turn mad and travellers are robbed of their memories.

[fresh rune]

Why would time passing fill only one area with infection

[indigo venture]

Game design

[fresh rune]

Game design would have also thrown grasspath in there too

[real forge]

Because it's the area that the Black Egg is in

[fresh rune]

Greenpath*

[fresh rune]

But black egg is sealed

[real forge]

And that's still where the entire infection is coming from, yeah, it's leaking to the rest of the kingdom

[indigo venture]

It spreads through the dream realm

[fresh rune]

No, the infection is passing through peoples dreams

It cant get out of the sealed black egg

[indigo venture]

The reason that the infection got worse in crossroads is because

[fresh rune]

Maybe we need to think what broken vessel was for the radiance

[hot lily]

it can, because it's not physical

[indigo venture]

The Infection got out from the black egg

that's the game's plot

[fresh rune]

It can go to peoples mind, but it can spread out of the egg like that

[indigo venture]

yeah

you got it

[fresh rune]

When you get to infected crossroads, it is filled eith infection, the infected mist gets stronger toward the eggs

Even tho you can get infected crossroads by not defeating a dreamer

Thus not weakening the egg

[indigo venture]

"Weakening"

Does it ever weaken

I don't reacll it doing that

[fresh rune]

Yed it does

The seal gets weakend

[indigo venture]

One of the seals keeping the door shut disappears

[fresh rune]

Until there is no more

[indigo venture]

That's it

[fresh rune]

Why would you put 3 seals on a door

[indigo venture]

To make sure no one goes in?

What

[fresh rune]

Why not 2 or 1

[indigo venture]

Ask PK dawg

I dunno'

safe measures

[fresh rune]

Think about it

Pk knew about it spreading through people's minds, that is how it all started because the moth tribe stopped warshipping it

So why would he put 3 whole seals on it

[indigo venture]

Why not

[fresh rune]

Waste of time prototyping and making these seals

Waste of energy

Waste of good strong people

[indigo venture]

"Good strong people"

Who

The Dreamers?

[fresh rune]

Yes

???

[signal marlin]

<@&283547423706447872> get ts outta here?! 🗣️

thanks joker

[humble oriole]

<@&283547423706447872> get ts outta here ?!

thanks joker

[glossy kettle]

Shadow creeper lore when 👀

[limber zenith]

shadow creeper has so much aura

would the vessels have been genderless anyways or is it specifically because of the void and stuff

idk if ts counts as lore

butttt

[fathom karma]

It's because of the void

[hot lily]

they are sexless but they don't necessarily need to remain genderless

[limber zenith]

i see

ty!!

[glossy kettle]

I think shadow creeper are vessels and that’s how they survive the abyss |||| and also exist in pharloom||

|| also they grow in pharloom because they’re not infected by radiance also why they’re not orange eyes ||

[wanton zephyr]

Vessels refer to the void hollowed children of PK and WL specifically

I don’t imagine they gave birth to
Shadow creepers…

So no they aren’t vessels

[hot lily]

shadow creepers are not vessels

[glossy kettle]

prove

[hot lily]

PK/WL uses the term "Vessel" to exclusively refer to the creations that were made and/or destroyed within the Abyss via their process

thus, since Shadow Creepers were not made from this process, they aren't Vessels

[glossy kettle]

how do we know that cant be the creepers

[hot lily]

if you're baiting, stop it

[glossy kettle]

maybe the void made em from the shells

[blissful crest]

what shells

don’t do this

[glossy kettle]

vessel sheels

[blissful crest]

their bodies bare zero resemblance

Don’t do this

[glossy kettle]

🤷‍♂️

idk man

[sage bronze]

they're not the same and you aren't funny

[glossy kettle]

super similar trust

🤣

[blissful crest]

This isn’t a channel for you to shitpost

read rules

[mighty dove]

It is interesting that these lil fellas seem to imply that void can sorta infuse into normal beings

[lusty rose]

why did you send 2 photos of the same vessel

[hazy temple]

What happened to quirrel after Hollow Knight events?

[wanton zephyr]

it's implied that he died at blue lake

[near sequoia]

Probably of old age, after taking off the mask he collapses to the ground and his voice gets pretty raspy and he says this

Be on your journey then, and allow me rest a time. With the deed complete, I begin to feel my age.

[marble birch]

I think the Shadow Creepers are the Void’s possible first attempt at creating life and the Abyss attempting to form something resembling an ecosystem, down there at the bottom of the world.

[mighty dove]

Hmmm idk

It doesn’t seem the same as other void creatures

[marble birch]

I mean they can’t have come from anywhere else. Nothing’s supposed to be down there.

[mighty dove]

The abyss wasn’t always sealed, is the thing

[marble birch]

Plus the fact they don’t need to eat or rest implies they are born of Void.

They’re not mortal.

Like they’re not normal Bugs that much is certain.

[mighty dove]

Hmmm… I think I’m still leaning towards void infused

[hot lily]

no it doesn't

[marble birch]

It sort of does. There’s nowhere else they could originate from, and nothing is supposed to be able to otherwise survive down there.

Nothing could migrate into the Abyss since nothing can survive exposure to the Void, or the Void would just kill the intruders itself.

[hot lily]

iirc they give off Soul when hit, and Void gas exposure isn't poisonous

[mighty dove]

Yeah, pure void creatures do not contain soul

[marble birch]

Hm. So they live in some regard, but still they’re not normal, mortal Bugs.

[lusty rose]

||"nothing can survive exposure to the void" we literally see voided bugs in the game||

[mighty dove]

Again, I think they’re just void infused bugs

[lusty rose]

They seem to be alive in some way

[marble birch]

But that makes no sense, nothing would survive the trip down there. The Void kills indiscriminately for it seeks only to consume. Nothing is supposed to be down in the Abyss, nothing living, at least.

[hazy temple]

The mask blocked his age?

[near sequoia]

Seems like it

Kinda makes sense seeing as how the sleeping dreamers don't age either

[mighty dove]

I feel like you’re slightly overrating Void here

[wanton zephyr]

I mean, you know what they say about nature. It always find a way to thrive

[lusty rose]

||Hornet goes into the void and does not die ||

[mighty dove]

Okay to be fair that is Hornet

[wanton zephyr]

Evidently, seeing how there are just straight dark plants in the ancient basin

[marble birch]

I’m just going off of the lore and what we know from the Creeper’s Journal entry, and it reiterates that nothing living is supposed to exist that far down.

The Creepers feel unnatural and bizarre since by all logic they aren’t supposed to exist.

[lusty rose]

And yeah hornet is partially pale being so fair

[mighty dove]

Erm, that’s Silksong stuff

[lusty rose]

Ngl I thought this might've been sk lore 😭

I'm kinda blind

[mighty dove]

All good

[wanton zephyr]

I just think that the shadow creepers exist to show that no matter how harsh the environment there will always be something manage to adapt to it lol...

[marble birch]

But nothing can adapt to that, not to Void. Again, the Journal entry enforces very heavily that nothing is supposed to be down that deep, save the Void itself.

And even then the Creepers aren’t normal, natural beings in a conventional sense, they’re not mortal.

[mighty dove]

They’re just bugs that have been taken over by void

[marble birch]

Every sign points that these things came about from an unnatural source, and the only thing down there that could have spawned them is the only thing with power in the Abyss: The Void itself.

[marble birch]

But they can’t be ‘just Bugs’. They don’t breathe, or eat, or sleep.

They show only the barest mimicry of being a ‘living creature’ but beyond that they’re just bizarre and unnatural.

[near sequoia]

Silksong - ||Hornet actually notes that they probably aren't related to regular bugs||

[wanton zephyr]

What's the actual quote?

[marble birch]

So, again, the closest guess I have is that they must be Void in origin, possibly the first true life to have been born in the Abyss itself. Plus there’s those dark plants and the like, showing that Void is, on some frequency, able to make life.

[near sequoia]

||"These ones grow large, yet I have never observed them eating, or sleeping. They seem such simple bugs... but I suspect they are not truly our cousins"||

[marble birch]

Even if said life is just an empty parody of what is supposed to be a living thing.

[wanton zephyr]

So "not truly" could mean they were living bugs once but something changed for them?

[near sequoia]

idk if those dark plants are necessarily made from the void

[marble birch]

I mean they grew from the Void-tainted soil at least.

[wanton zephyr]

Idk i think of the void as more like a substance that can infuse things with its essence. Dark plants, dark soil, dark rocks, dark bugs

[near sequoia]

Yeah they're freaky

[indigo venture]

Void imprints

?

[remote bramble]

Imo the shadow creepers and the ||glooms|| are just organisms that independently evolved to survive the abyss

[marble birch]

I think the Creepers might be the Void’s like. First, primordial attempt at making spawn from itself, carrying its essence and emptiness. Possibly a result of what changed when the ancient Bugs started worshipping the Void.

[lusty rose]

Then there's the question how these plants and bugs got there
Silksong spoilers: || there's a giant lava pool cutting the abyss from the rest of the world, so how did the bugs and plants get there? ||

[indigo venture]

||Maybe the lava wasn't there before||

[marble birch]

They’re not organisms, though. They don’t have anything resembling mortality. They don’t need to eat, or breathe, or sleep.

[indigo venture]

||Hornet finds this scary||

Makes you wonder if Hornet found The vessels eerie

[wanton zephyr]

See we don't know how this world is formed. Perhaps long ago there was no || lava ||. Earth changed in ways humans never expected so who am i to speculate how they got there XD

[marble birch]

Like I said, they’re not connected to any form of nature or any kind of biological spawn, and they’re not the spawn of any of the known Gods.

[wanton zephyr]

I mean they lwk looks like crawlids so

[remote bramble]

Well neither does hornet tbf

[indigo venture]

[lusty rose]

Yeah it seems that the || lava pools are specific to pharloom as well, because we don't see anything close to that in hollow knight||

[marble birch]

Hornet is a Demigod, though, so of course she, partially, has a God’s longevity, but i’m pretty sure she’s still mortal. She has a lifespan, just an incredibly long one.

The Creepers are something beyond that entirely.

[wanton zephyr]

If these things didnt exist I would have been inclined to think that shadow creepers are purely void born and nothing like it ever existed before

But the resemblance is lwk insane

[marble birch]

Well technically yes you are correct. There’s nothing else in existence like the Creepers.

Their only possible source is the only reigning power of the Abyss itself, the Void.

[wanton zephyr]

or hear me out, they just adapted better

[lusty rose]

The void doesn't seek to create life though

[wanton zephyr]

Technically every species in hollow knight are unique

[marble birch]

The Crawlids vaguely resemble them in shape, but they have mandibles and a real bug’s lifespan and need to eat and breathe and sleep. The Creepers don’t.

[lusty rose]

The interesting part is that || crawlids aren't in silksong but creepers are ||

[marble birch]

Perhaps it does not seek to, but perhaps it ended up making something anyway. My closest guess is the Creepers may have came about after the old Bugs started worshipping the Void, way back at the dawn of civilization.

Something in the Abyss changed after the black pool started receiving the power of belief.

[wanton zephyr]

I want to talk about how the void infusion can technically still make a mortal bug into what we know as creepers

[lusty rose]

I think of the void as something constant throughout the world, and I doubt it would be affected by some bugs worshipping it

[marble birch]

The Void infusion more or less just. Kills the associated bug and puppets the corpse, giving it unnatural durability and strength and letting the Void manifest through it as a vessel.

[wanton zephyr]

The lore tablet in WP imply that void is a power capable of denying time, keeping things in stasis. So bugs that live in the void might just have a prolonged existence from that

[lusty plinth]

shadow creepers are not void

they’re just insanely primitive

[marble birch]

How are they not, literally no other source exists.

[lusty plinth]

where all other bugs come from

[marble birch]

They’re the only living thing we see that is purely and undeniably native to the Abyss itself, even though nothing is supposed to be down there.

[marble birch]

But they’re not Bugs.

[lusty plinth]

they are bugs

they’re just the trilobites of bugs

[marble birch]

They only just barely resemble some mimicry of a living thing, but they’re only an imitation.

[lusty plinth]

as in trilobites are to us what they are to bugs

so unfathomably ancient and unchanged

[marble birch]

Okay yes but they’re something beyond even that. They’re not mortal.

[wanton zephyr]

This word "imitation" seems to be thrown around a lot with no in game lore for it

[lusty plinth]

my nail begs to differ

[forest hearth]

my guess is that ||gargant glooms and gloomsacs would be present in hk’s abyss but got crushed by the vessel corpses since they werent able to climb|| like shadow creepers

[lusty rose]

Immortality and invulnerability are different

[marble birch]

Well yes they can be killed externally, but at the same time they don’t need to breathe, eat, or sleep.

[near sequoia]

that doesn't mean they aren't mortal tbf

[forest hearth]

entirely unrelated to the discussion im just now realizing

[lusty plinth]

wouldn’t they just reform above the corpse floor

[marble birch]

Also possible that the Abyss point in Hallownest is simply isolated from the rest.

[wanton zephyr]

Where did the they dont have to breathe come from lol

[lusty rose]

Too pointy

Hurts

[forest hearth]

do they reform??

[marble birch]

How is that not paramount to immortality. They don’t need to eat, meaning they are purely self-sustaining and have indefinite energy. Not needing to sleep means they have indefinite stamina and vitality.

[lusty plinth]

idk i just assumed the gloomsacs spontaneously generated

they’re not living creatures are they?

[near sequoia]

we just saying stuff now 😭

[forest hearth]

they seem to be living bugs, they grow on vines and shit though

[indigo venture]

Just typing shit

[forest hearth]

or is that just where they nest

[marble birch]

I’m. Not? I’m just pointing out what that distinction of not needing to do living creature stuff means.

[forest hearth]

aha

“Tiny empty creature, barely a bug.”

it is a real boy

[indigo venture]

Barely

Like how Hornet is barely a Higher Being

[lusty rose]

And empty has an association with void

[marble birch]

Technically half a Higher Being.

[indigo venture]

Yeah

Barely

[near sequoia]

That doesn't imply they can't die from old age though

[wanton zephyr]

Does higher-being-ness transfer from generation to generation lol...

[near sequoia]

Higher being is a title

Basically means deity

[marble birch]

Not sure. They seem to be impossibly old though, downright primordial.

[near sequoia]

Hornet isn't one

[near sequoia]

As a species maybe

[forest hearth]

why isnt hornet a hb? genuinely curious

[wanton zephyr]

she's not

[indigo venture]

I mean their bodies detriorate

[forest hearth]

yeah im asking why

[wanton zephyr]

She's just a child born of 1 higher being

[marble birch]

She would need to ascend in truth to accomplish that state.

[near sequoia]

There's nothing she really does that is on par with the confirmed higher beings

[indigo venture]

wouldn't PK's original body be perfectly fine if it was meant to exist forever

[wanton zephyr]

The vessels if they weren't hollowed out wouldn't be higher beings either

[near sequoia]

Iunno about that one

[wanton zephyr]

ok maybe i was speculative on that one

[near sequoia]

I mean its possible

[wanton zephyr]

Can you imagine 1 billion higher beings

[marble birch]

They Vessels are transcendent in nature even above Higher Beings. They’re something else.

[indigo venture]

Radiance victims

[indigo venture]

They're stillborn fetuses yeah

and then TK becomes a Higher Being

[marble birch]

The Gods are to the Vessels what mortal Bugs are to the Gods: The Vessels are transcendent on a level and caliber that almost cannot be fathomed.

[wanton zephyr]

They are def supernatural...

They are zombies

[marble birch]

They’re moreso animate constructs. Empty godling bodies that were exposed and infused directly with Void itself.

[indigo venture]

Hornet kills vessels

[wanton zephyr]

She breaks their shells

[marble birch]

Well yeah just because they’re unfathomable transcendent beings doesn’t make them less of barely children.

[wanton zephyr]

Idek what unfathomable transcendent is supposed to mean lore wise lol

[marble birch]

They’re not Bug, not Beast, and not God. They’re of an even higher state of being due to their entwinement with Void.

[indigo venture]

Above all gods

God of gods if you will

[wanton zephyr]

They are certainly unique cuz probably nobody ever was so desperate they have to resort to doing what PK did

[marble birch]

Well yeah. Pale King did what needed to be done, for the good of trying to save his civilization from the Radiance.

He was a pretty benevolent God all things considered, albeit infamously reclusive and secretive.

[wanton zephyr]

Idk, i think the idea of void hollowed children corpses is quite fathomable since PK did come up with it

[forest hearth]

i dont think vessels are super special

[indigo venture]

I wonder who came up with it first

[marble birch]

Well yeah but still. Their nature is above that of any other entity known to exist due to their affiliation with Void.

[forest hearth]

theyre up there but i dont think theyre super crazy

[marble birch]

Ghost was able to transcend into a being to which Gods are cannon fodder, I beg to differ.

[indigo venture]

I mean 1 in a million

Vessels inherently had the potential to do wild shit like voidheart

It's so crazy

[forest hearth]

I mean it was able to do that but in all regards it was pretty unique

[marble birch]

Indeed. An emptiness within unconstrained. It just took one of them surviving long enough to awaken that emptiness.

[indigo venture]

If only Hornet hadn't killed like 90% of them

Hornet is such a bad being

[wanton zephyr]

The circumstances from PK's billions of failed experimental subjects gave birth to 1 single vessel capable of said wild shit

It really makes you think about the theory of evolution here

trillions of random chances to create life on earth

[marble birch]

Well most of them were still likely following Pale King’s instructions and would have simply tried to become the new Hollow Knight. Ghost is unique since it left Hallownest completely, and has a resilience born of ‘two Voids’, in Hornet’s words.

[forest hearth]

weird how both void tendrils and vessels are considered void given form

[wanton zephyr]

I don't doubt more vessels left hallownest, but whether any of them as the same experience as TK is hard to say

[wanton zephyr]

Well, void tendrils are "imprints" of void given form

y know, cuz it's physical

It has form but not fully

[marble birch]

My theorem is the Void Tendrils are possibly detached shards and slivers of the original primordial consciousness that was once the Lord of Shades, before it dissolved after the Void stopped being worshipped.

[indigo venture]

I dunno' about this one

seems a bit wild

We see a mold of where Void Tendrils were likely created

[lusty rose]

thats a really cool theory that is 99% speculation

[forest hearth]

its said the ac worshipped no god

[marble birch]

That doesn’t mean one wasn’t created in the process.

Notice how many of the Void Monoliths bear an eerily similar shape for those who’ve gotten the Embrace The Void ending.

[wanton zephyr]

I always thought that the lord of shades has never been a thing until TK managed to unite the void

[indigo venture]

I mean Void Given Focus likely never existed before, bcuz, yk

Godseekers weren't there to give focus to a previouss "Lord of shades"

[forest hearth]

those are probably just the shapes of ac bugs

[indigo venture]

I don't know why this is relevant

[rugged comet]

Dream Nail: The Abyss - Shade Beast - "...Lord of Shades..."

...Lord of Shades...

@pancakeisagod used /dream-nail area: The Abyss name: Shade Beast - "...Lord of Shades..."

[lusty rose]

they clearly knew something about the lord of shades

[indigo venture]

The Statue calls TK that yeah

[marble birch]

Not really. They’re Idols, effigies clearly made to be used in worship.

[indigo venture]

It could perfectly be a name the statue itself made up on the spot

[forest hearth]

your proof for this is?

[wanton zephyr]

When you have command over shades so they call you the lord of shades

[lusty rose]

i suppose it could be the void imbued statue acknowledging tk?

[indigo venture]

ye

[forest hearth]

also in that case explain why there’s one that looks nothing like the shade lord at all

that one fat one in sanctum

[indigo venture]

I mean PK did steal the idea from them

[marble birch]

Look at where they’re positioned. They frequently show up in holy sites or near holy sites across Hallownest.

[indigo venture]

made one for himself and in PoP made one for THK

[split compass]

the AC was said to worship no lord or power save the Void itself, but the concept of a 'Lord of Shades' may have existed among them - an idea, not something that existed at the time
hence the title emerging from the thoughts of the ancient corpse

[wanton zephyr]

What even is a holy site

[marble birch]

That one seems made of metal. Possibly an attempt by the Soul Twisters to mimic the Void Monoliths.

[split compass]

otherwise it's coming up with the title as a corpse, which is a cool trick in its own right

[marble birch]

Religious place of worship.

[wanton zephyr]

And if the ac worship only void what makes those places holy for them

[indigo venture]

Why did TK take a similar form to the "Previous Lord of shades" though

Is it in void's nature itself

Why would they do that

[forest hearth]

it looks the exact same

[wanton zephyr]

it's the true form of the void

[indigo venture]

Damn

[marble birch]

I think it may have existed properly. The old bugs probably still only saw vague glimpses of the Lord, and fashioned their Idols and Effigies from what they saw.

[wanton zephyr]

Doubtful it ever existed

[marble birch]

Nothing else could explain the Monoliths matching its overall shape, if only vaguely.

The wide, oval head, the long, curved horns?

[indigo venture]

Why did TK take a similar form though

Did it like get inspired from the Monoliths

I still want the answer to this question in this hypothetical

[marble birch]

I don’t think it ‘took’ that form moreso it reassembled into that form.

[indigo venture]

Why

Was it void's nature

[marble birch]

The Voidheart implies that the user can unify the whole of Void under its will.

A singular consciousness, now completed. Restored to its original state of oneness.

[indigo venture]

damn

I mean it isn't the whole of the void though

[marble birch]

By combining its will with the wills of the other Vessels, Ghost basically re-assembled and reawakened the Lord of Shades in Godseeker’s dream.

Then proceeded to hand Radiance her ass.

[indigo venture]

Well not all of the vessels

[split compass]

I find it unlikely, given Lemm's assessment of the AC, and Bardoon regarding TK as having 'strength before unseen'
these are NPCs its true, but still
the AC worshipped the Void and likely built artifacts in homage of its forms, and the Lord might resemble them coincidentally because it is also Void

[lusty rose]

but the wills of the vessels would be different than that of the original lord of shades?

[wanton zephyr]

Humans make images of god in the image of human because they know not what a being higher than their imagination would look like. The AC probably made those statues shaped like bugs

[marble birch]

Again, Voidheart Charm singularly united all their wills under Ghost. That collective fusion re-created the Void’s original, whole consciousness and awakened it from primordial slumber, due to Godseeker’s attunement.

[wanton zephyr]

the "original consciousness" and "awakened it from primordial slumber" is speculation at best

[lusty rose]

nonetheless, the likelihood of the lord of shades existing previously to tk is low

[marble birch]

How so? Again there are countless effigies and monoliths dotting Hallownest made in its image.

[wanton zephyr]

How do you know it's made in its image and it's not just a speculative statue, though

[marble birch]

There exists tangible, irrefutable proof that this creature existed at some point back in the Void’s prime when it was actively worshipped and more or less the dominant power in the world.

[wanton zephyr]

A lot of bugs have two horns, what's a bit more and make it curved

[pure inlet]

Lord of Shades likely didn’t exist before

TK becoming LoS is the result of multiple unique factors

[marble birch]

Not just two horns but often four, and bearing a similarly long, outward curved shape.

[pure inlet]

And Lemm says the AC worshipped the Void itself without any entity behind it

Which is consistent with what we get

[marble birch]

True but that isn’t to say an entity did not spawn from that. There is, as I said, irrefutable evidence this thing existed.

[pure inlet]

Wdym

A previous lord of shades?

[marble birch]

You need simply find the Void Idols hidden across Hallownest.

[pure inlet]

What evidence do you mean

The void idols?

[marble birch]

Those big black things in the Lord’s shape.

They give Soul when struck.

[pure inlet]

The soul totems?

[marble birch]

Yes, those.

[pure inlet]

I mean I think the similarities are superficial

[marble birch]

Especially the large ones with a somewhat hunched shape. One can be found as early as the Ancestral Mound. They bear an uncanny, almost exact resemblance to the creature itself.

[pure inlet]

They probably depict former AC bugs

The horn count is dissimilar

[marble birch]

Come on man this is as simple as putting two and two together, you just need to connect two dots.

[marble birch]

What so they could worship themselves?

[wanton zephyr]

No

[marble birch]

These things were clearly made as icons of worship.

[wanton zephyr]

Again, they probably made the image of the being they worship in the way they knew how

Cuz how do you think of something unthinkable?

[pure inlet]

Vague visual similarities aren’t enough to go off of especially when the game sort of goes out of its way to tell you the opposite

[indigo venture]

||Shakra and that explosive bat||

[wanton zephyr]

How do you know she isn't a bat

[marble birch]

Well they worshipped the Void, and the Void is primarily liquid and amorphous, as is much of the vague, hazy shape of the Lord of Shades. They likely could only see vague glimpses of the ancient God their worship ended up creating, and made these Idols to worship Void as a whole in the vague image of that physical avatar they saw.

[indigo venture]

No, fuck off

[pure inlet]

Lemm refers to the soul totems as AC creations I think a learned Relic Seeker would come to an informed conclusion

[indigo venture]

The totems were used as soul storage

[pure inlet]

The Void Idol is the last journal entry most people will get (besides Weathered Mask)

[indigo venture]

because they have soul in 'em

[pure inlet]

It would be weird for that entry to not actually be the case

[indigo venture]

What is the lore of the Abyss Shriek room

[marble birch]

Okay yes but still look at their shape, look at where they’re placed. These things are very blatantly made as icons of worship to the old darkness these Bugs prayed to.

[pure inlet]

There is no hint of LoS existing

[marble birch]

That is…a good question.

[indigo venture]

I don't think so

[pure inlet]

I might believe they’re stylized depictions of flowing void I don’t know

I think they’re meant to represent old bugs

[marble birch]

Again. My guy. There is physical, irrefutable evidence in the form of those Totems that demand otherwise.

[pure inlet]

Where

One has slightly similar horns?

[indigo venture]

The totem doesn't have arms

Void Given Focus does

[marble birch]

Just. Go to Ancestral Mound, and search the upper rooms. You will find the hunched Void Idol that most closely resembles the Lord of Shades.

[pure inlet]

Inspired or mad, those ancient bugs. They devoted their worship to no lord, or power, or strength, but to the very darkness itself.

This refutes your theory

[indigo venture]

But what is stated in-game can be refuted because of the placements of the totem

I think

[marble birch]

It does not, in the slightest. The Lord of Shades is less an individual and more an avatar of the will of the Void itself. They worshipped the darkness, and after enough time the darkness manifested an avatar, though they likely only saw glimpses of it down in the Void sea.

[indigo venture]

@marble birch what do you say

[pure inlet]

I this the totem you mean?

I can’t find the exact picture

[indigo venture]

It doesn't have arms

VGFocus does

[pure inlet]

The lord of shades is an individual

[indigo venture]

end of case

[wanton zephyr]

These?

[indigo venture]

That doesn't resmeble anything

period

[wanton zephyr]

Looks like hornet wearing PK's cloak

[marble birch]

It is not. It’s a unification of the Void itself. It is Void, given a will and a mind.

[pure inlet]

No it isn’t

[indigo venture]

Void Given Focus is Void Given Form + Focus

[pure inlet]

It’s TK with the power to control the void

Nothing changes about TK

[marble birch]

No, I mean the ones like the one found in the upper rooms of the Ancestral Mound. The hunched ones.

[indigo venture]

It is Void having been given Focus by TK's will

[turbid lantern]

I'm still struggling with ||failed champion|| lol I think my main problem is just that im bad at the game

[wanton zephyr]

This is lore channel lol

[indigo venture]

Umh

Sir this a Burger King

[turbid lantern]

Why did I get this game on switch

[indigo venture]

Do you want onion rings with that or

[wanton zephyr]

We don't discuss gameplay here

[marble birch]

Quite a lot changes mostly in that its individuality is now lost due to having completed that unification. It ceased being an individual and became something else.

[turbid lantern]

wait wrong channel lol

[indigo venture]

We discuss the story of the game

[turbid lantern]

Mbmbmb

[wanton zephyr]

move to #hk-discussion or #hk-general

[pure inlet]

No Void Given Focus isn’t that

It’s TK with Godseeker focus that strengthens it

[turbid lantern]

I thought I was in hk help

😭

[indigo venture]

I meant Void Given Form

[pure inlet]

All good

[marble birch]

It’s not a strengthening, it’s a reawakening. A unification, a recompletion. A transcendence.

[wanton zephyr]

Now, with that said... || Silksong true ending has a VGFocus shot flashes while TK and the shadeblings disappear. I suspect it's to symbolize that VGFocus is beyond TK or the shades. It's a collective ||

[pure inlet]

A what?

VGFocus is just TK

[marble birch]

It is very definitely far more than that.

[wanton zephyr]

if it was merely TK, the cutscene would have just not zoom out to show all the || shadeblings ||

[pure inlet]

Godseeker Mode makes a point to tell you this, and ||Silksong does too||

They’re both TK

[marble birch]

Man you’re just not listening to the facts being presented.

[pure inlet]

What are the facts?

Godseeker addresses TK as the God of Gods

[indigo venture]

VGFocus takes TK's form again

[pure inlet]

The only difference between VGForm and VGFocus is that VGFocus was given more power by Godseeker in order to defeat Rad who was also given more power

[indigo venture]

In Godseeker mode

[marble birch]

Void Given Focus is still something more than just Ghost, though. It is Void’s original avatar, the completed consciousness made from wills fused and combined.

[pure inlet]

TK is simply able to draw more void into itself

It has greater control

[indigo venture]

Why would Void Given Focus take TK's form if it wasn't TK

[pure inlet]

It is specifically not that

Do you have any evidence

[indigo venture]

Okay I think this is just cope

[pure inlet]

The void is power without unity

It has a fragmented mind yeah

[marble birch]

Read Voidheart, if you will.

[pure inlet]

It was unified under TK

The bearer’s will

[indigo venture]

Under the berare's will

[marble birch]

Exactly. You just proved my point.

[indigo venture]

TK is the bearer

[pure inlet]

TK is its own being unifying the void

The mind gives way to TK’s direct control

[marble birch]

Once Ghost ascended and, with Godseeker’s attunement at work, it unified all those minds and created the Void’s original mind. Or rather, woke it back up.

[pure inlet]

It did?

[indigo venture]

But it isn't every mind

though

That's the thing

Even with your theory, Void Given Focus isn't that

Because it isn't everything

[marble birch]

Well yeah it essentially caused a unification of all the fractured wills between itself and its siblings and transcended in full, becoming the Void given Focus/Lord of Shades. It recompleted Void’s original avatar.

[indigo venture]

It isn't a unification

because it isn't every will of The Vessels

[pure inlet]

Void does not have an original avatar

[indigo venture]

because we see a Vessel still kicking around like 5 seconds after VGFocus's creation

THK

[marble birch]

Voidheart description, and I quote: ‘Unifies Void under the bearer’s will.’

[pure inlet]

There are no depictions of this avatar and Lemm says otherwise

[indigo venture]

I meant that VGFocus isn't that

[marble birch]

Again, Void Idols prove otherwise. Physical, tangible, irrefutable proof.

[pure inlet]

Void idols don’t exist

There’s only one void idol

[indigo venture]

Irrefutable proof that have other expalantions and interpretations

[forest hearth]

if vgfocus isnt tk anymore and is instead every fractured will from the void why do they not just ||kill hornet in sister of the void||

[pure inlet]

Pointing out vague visual similarities to one type of Soul totem that is given the same weight as every other Soul totem isn’t evidence

[forest hearth]

infact the name ||sister of the void|| refutes the theory because at that point in the verse tk is the void

[marble birch]

Hello? Have you not played Hollow Knight? Or at least not explored enough to find them? The Soul Sanctum hoarded these things, and lots of them.

[pure inlet]

They aren’t void idols

[indigo venture]

Okay there is no reason to talk condscendingly

[pure inlet]

They are soul totems

You made up that name

[indigo venture]

This is a civilized discussion and debating

[pure inlet]

It’s chill

But you’re right pink flash

[indigo venture]

AppelEgg

[forest hearth]

if joker was here theyd flip their shit because they had this exact convo like 2 days ago

[pure inlet]

No I mean it doesn’t drag on me

[indigo venture]

Who's Joker

[forest hearth]

moderator

[indigo venture]

Regardless I think it's pretty clear this isn't going anywhere

[forest hearth]

only moderator in this server who goes in the lore channels

[indigo venture]

Powdered, smh

[pure inlet]

Rip the goat

[forest hearth]

honestly dk what happened with them they were cool

[indigo venture]

[pure inlet]

They were abrasive sometimes

But it was nice to have another mod

[indigo venture]

Every mod, ever

[pure inlet]

Hope he’s doing okay

[indigo venture]

ANyway back to lore

I actually wanted to ask somethin

Do yall think The Nightmare Heart is the Nightmare Realm itself?

Like the Heart is the entirety of it

[pure inlet]

Uhh

[marble birch]

The Heart is moreso the God of that realm. It is its source, its core.

[pure inlet]

There’s some line about this

[wanton zephyr]

The || sister of the void being called that way shouldn't have been called that way cuz Hornet is TK's and the shades' sister, not the void in its entirety. So I assumed that the lord of shades have to be the unified void under TK as a central will for that ending to be called that. ||

Plus, with the sequence of the shots like this, it's hard not to notice how it zooms out to show || both TK AND the shades being the VGFocus equivalent ||
Idk, im an artist so im lwk very focused on cinematics details and symbolisms for lore purposes lol...

[indigo venture]

Yeah that's why I bring it up

[pure inlet]

“Scattered lands…Nightmare binds all”

Or some other NKG dnd

[indigo venture]

🐌

Argument is over Milwkasdsaadxz

[wanton zephyr]

Shut i need to screenshot

[pure inlet]

No you right

[indigo venture]

It's fine

It's chill

But yeah I just needed to share my discovery of TNH

[wanton zephyr]

I still want to present my evidence for the VGFocus is TK AND the shades, at least, tho

Not the void itself

The shades and TK, like children of PK

[indigo venture]

Yeah we've agreed to disagree

[wanton zephyr]

yk what fair enough, now go to hk gen and tell me if you agree with me or not XD

[indigo venture]

Oh so now we're buddy buddy after you humilliated me in #hk-discussion

okay

[marble birch]

Man you’re kind of desperate at this point even though you were debunked ages ago.

[wanton zephyr]

huh

[marble birch]

Just let it go at this point.

[wanton zephyr]

debunked where lmao

[indigo venture]

Also there's something I noticed

[marble birch]

I already provided hard irrefutable evidence for my own theorems, not much else to say.

[wanton zephyr]

heheh

[indigo venture]

||VGFocus looks different in Silksong||

Like the 2 side horns look off

[rugged comet]

Hall of Gods: Knight Radiant

Unlocked:
Void given focus.

@megathekindly used /godhome category: Hall of Gods - Bottom row name: Knight Radiant

[indigo venture]

They aren't as large

[forest hearth]

probably just a style change

[indigo venture]

Probably

[marble birch]

I mean Void as a whole is primarily liquid and amorphous.

[wanton zephyr]

in HK VGFocus has only 2 side whiskers lol

It seems to just do whatever it wants

"not auraful enough i need more horns"

[indigo venture]

Godseeker mode confirms this

[forest hearth]

so overdesigned but underdesigned

[marble birch]

Likely also explains why the Soul Totems have varying depictions of its shape and none of them are an exact approximation.

[indigo venture]

Why is their statue broken

Why is every void being's statue broken

Like both Collector's and VGFocu's statue is broken

[wanton zephyr]

Void inside writhe too hard XD

[marble birch]

Because it is o l d a s d i r t.

[indigo venture]

Perchance

[indigo venture]

Wbu collector

[wanton zephyr]

Girl i lwk don't like how it has actual bug joints lmao...

[marble birch]

Collector was a botched attempt at a Kingsmould that proceeded to go on a rampage and was then locked into the loony bin.

[indigo venture]

Took inspiration from your favorite character I guess

[indigo venture]

Why is their statue broken then

[wanton zephyr]

shut up

It has joints cuz it has a bug shell what is VGFocus's excuse

[marble birch]

It might simply be how Godsseker’s architecture is. We’re in a dreamscape after all, and she’s trying to recreate all this from memory.

[indigo venture]

Do they just have issues with Void Beings

[marble birch]

Void might just be that transcendent in nature, the mind struggles to process it.

[indigo venture]

PV's is fine

Also Attuned and AScended Knight

[wanton zephyr]

I knew it who can hate PV

[indigo venture]

It's so odd

[marble birch]

Of course no God in the Pantheon compares to the one, true God himself…Zote the Mighty.

[indigo venture]

Okay I'm going out of this channel now

[pure inlet]

It’s probably a recreation issue but I think it’s a greater Void thing

We know it messes with magical sensory abilities

It’s probably more difficult to attune

[marble birch]

True. Void is simply that transcendent that a mortal mind struggles to process it.

[pure inlet]

PV has a shell around it I guess

[wanton zephyr]

I just thought that since the idols have drops of void in them the instability just mess with the structure lol

[forest hearth]

theyre probably old and dilapidated for extra aura

[civic dew]

I’m gonna say that big void guy is a eurypterid because yes

[craggy crane]

How did Hornet avoid becoming infected for that long pre-canon HK

Even the most important, powerful strong-willed people fell. So why was Hornet the exception

[civic dew]

Ikd, same reason why the Mantis Lords aren’t infected if?

*ig ffs autocorrect

[karmic crescent]

Though not stated clearly, it can be assumed that she survived because she is half pale being. There's a correlation between her and the other vessels as the vessels aren't infected (broken vessel and sealed vessel aren't the exception btw. Broken vessel is just a leftover husk of a dead vessel that was overtaken by lightseeds. Sealed vessel literally had the source of the infection inside him so ofc he'd be infected to some extent (add to that the line "an idea instilled)). And the vessels are the spawns of two pale beings. So maybe their pale "blood" is what let the vessels and Hornet survive the infection

[craggy crane]

Maybe yea. Definitely a factor

[lusty rose]

What about mantis tribe?

[karmic crescent]

They just fought off all the infected guys

Maybe*

I mean they definitely did but idk if it's actually the reason

[lusty rose]

But you can't fight off your own dreams

[karmic crescent]

Their numbers are already dwindling. Maybe they killed all the ones, of their own tribe, that got infected while sleeping

Or maybe they just don't dream

[still gulch]

My theory is that they have stronger wills so they don't get infected

Just like the hunter who feasts on certain infected bugs, hornet, vessels etc.

So the radiance decided to bring down the last standing civilisation of mantis by offering the fourth mantis lord power.

Causing a massive chaos between traitor lord and mantis lords with the radiance's intent of destroying mantis village

[lusty rose]

Dirtmouth villagers are stronger willed than normal bugs?

[still gulch]

There are other factors really

Some just straight up refused like Bardoon who isolated himself away from "spitting creatures" united against pk's attempt at order

And some don't have a mind to infect like Zote

But I say Mantises stood strong because of their strong wills

[pliant jay]

She’s the daughter of a higher being and a being created by a higher being

I think this gives her significantly increased immunity to the control of higher beings

Hence why she can wake up from the threads in bellheart after sitting on a bench there while it’s haunted, resist lifeblood’s control significantly better than others, etc.

[tropic adder]

The infection didn't made it up there

For now though

[tropic adder]

Not really

[lusty rose]

But radiance is on their doorstep

[tropic adder]

They did not let anyone stand in their village

Unless you proved you were worthy or not infected

Example elder hu

[tropic adder]

True

If we had like another landscape change we possibly would have seen the infection coming up

[lusty rose]

Maybe elderbug is just build different somehow

[tropic adder]

I read elder hu

[tropic adder]

I mean when he went down he was getting infected but he ran out way before the infection could take place

[forest crown]

What if the pale king is alive???

just in another body??

[wise star]

4

[vale oyster]

The first time he did something like that, there was an egg left behind

We see no such egg in his throne room

[vale oyster]

Although, its not confirmed whether that egg was related to pk's metamorphosis

[supple plover]

bruh

bruh

bruh