hk-lore

[split compass]

a lot of TK's shit got left behind, I guess

[hot lily]

it is because the dream nail is a metaphysical object

[surreal bobcat]

the dream nail's hilt is pretty physical

[still gulch]

"Mother's will always betray you"
Considering The Radiance was betrayed as a mother and Queen was disappointed and hid inside a cocoon after the seals were already put

So Zote may not be a void sibling

"Beware the jealousy of fathers"

Considering how much of a failure Zote is he might be related to soul scholars or even the soul master himself

Soul Master claims he had the perfect solution for the cure which was the soul that animates their bodies. But king stood against all of his work. He claims Pale King robbed him off his immortality and was jealous of him.

[hot lily]

yet in Godseeker Mode the Dream Nail still exists despite the Knight no longer having a physical body

[hot lily]

because Radiance blackmailed him with the false cure of Soul in the first place

[echo eagle]

What is Zote? Like what kind of bug is he?

[hot lily]

he's a normal bug, metacontextually a parody of the Knight

(and also a self-insert character)

[still gulch]

True but the thing is he appeared perfectly fine in front of pale king or any of his emmisaries. Radiance might have frenzied his desires of immortality otherwise there are other soul scholars who studied it's powers.

[still gulch]

Self insert of who

Which mighty author

[surreal bobcat]

so, how did the knight's shell get out of THK exactly?

just confused by that

since in that case tk is metaphysical aswell

actually

in that case anyone who canonically wields the dream nail is metaphysical in that point in time

the knights shell had the dream nail on them

wait

no

nevermind

[still gulch]

I doubt it did. In the dream no more ending they both return to void and the void siblings are put to rest.

[surreal bobcat]

wait

did it?

lemme watch that cutscene again

0:48, the knights mask can be seen in dream no more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-9AhZJrk_g

but

idk for embrace the void

here we go

[still gulch]

He usurps the gh which was the "godseeker"s mind. He is then consumed by the void and if you haven't given flower the void will spread outside of him.

[neat kite]

i mean veil between dream and physical realm can be separated by Radiance and Godseeker's seemingly

[still gulch]

Embrace the Void has to be the best ending

• THK survives
• gs gets what she wants
• Infection ended
• Dreamers don't die if you haven't killed them nvm they are funking dead anyways

The hardest ending is also the ending where you get the best results.

[hot lily]

he didn't appear perfectly fine, he was blatantly infected or succumbing to it, the Soul Scholars are as well

[wanton zephyr]

Unn never making any more mosskins cuz they are born from her dream

[young flower]

wait during etv whats the huge shadow we see again?

the knight?

[wanton zephyr]

Void given focus

[young flower]

wdym

[wanton zephyr]

It’s void given focus

That’s what it’s called

Void attuned to the highest potential, at its heart, a will

The God of Gods

[young flower]

thats how the knight became the void lord/

[wanton zephyr]

Its title is already “lord of shades” when it got voidheart

That thing is void given focus

[young flower]

i heard during etv the knight becomes the void lord and thk is freed from infection and that he appeared during the true ending of silksong

[wanton zephyr]

More like the knight united the void and then go through some attunement bullshit to bring the void to its highest potential, which manifested as a void entity called void given focus

[young flower]

fairr

[hot lily]

not for this channel

[karmic stone]

Seemed kind of lore wise but my bad I'll get rid of it

[pine karma]

when you really think about it the entire infection couldve been avoided by the bugs just, not sleeping???

but that would result in a lack of sleep, who knew, which yknow isnt the best

the end

that is my one message to this channel

goodbye

[tepid bluff]

guys whay did hornet,nailsmith,dung defender, etc not get infected??

[pine karma]

b e c a u s e
t h e y
d i d n ' t
s l e e p

[tepid bluff]

because corniffer sleeps

corniffer sleeps

after you purchase all the maps or get all 3 dreamers

[pine karma]

maybe some bugs just dont dream

yknow some humans dont dream like me

(myla why did you sleep)

[tepid bluff]

no

myla

gets

infected

when you get crystal dash

but rip myla

[pine karma]

what is even the

the infection at this point cannot even be said as an infection

[tepid bluff]

it's orange juice

[pine karma]

if it was LIKE an infection youd get infected at game over

(eh em broken vessel)

[tepid bluff]

no void can't get infected

light the vessels

[pine karma]

makes sense

[tepid bluff]

the hollow knight

[pine karma]

its void

[pine karma]

sigh

[tepid bluff]

contains the infection

not infected

[pine karma]

its in a middle state

infected but not

[tepid bluff]

yeah

it still

has

a mind

it stabs itself

[pine karma]

THIS VESSEL ISNT PURE

[tepid bluff]

yeah

impure vessel

pale king the dumbestking

[pine karma]

when you take a look at our names this is the most unironic conversation ever

[tepid bluff]

and the worst dad

yeah

[pine karma]

probably couldve been good if you know, infection didnt happened

or pale king just instantly killed the radiance

common aus

[tepid bluff]

it's the citizens fault

they turned away on me

and now i'm mad

so i splat orange juice on the whole city

[pine karma]

if only the pale king

just didnt exist

[tepid bluff]

yeah

wyrm

or

worm

because he is so dumb

but he is a higher being

[pine karma]

also

[tepid bluff]

wat

[pine karma]

pale king could just, go out overground for 2 seconds before actually doing the whole becoming the king of hallownest

[tepid bluff]

yeah

[pine karma]

and then get stomped on brutally

[tepid bluff]

bro

[pine karma]

ways to kill TPK

a list of many

[tepid bluff]

he's dead.

1 way:

shade lord

[pine karma]

ways to kill tpk before he dies

a list of many

[tepid bluff]

void-consumed godseeker

our siblings in the game

REVENGE

[pine karma]

also

the infection is very weird as a well, infection plague virus bacteria

[tepid bluff]

wait what if the pale king goes in the pantheons

which one

my guess is p4

[pine karma]

• you get it essentially by dreaming
• it actually shows signs of itself
  - its a pyschical thing once your infected
• you dont get any virus bacteria like things you just casually go on a normal murder spree that never ends

[tepid bluff]

u lose control of ur self

and explode

into 2 masks of damage

[pine karma]

the only reason radiance is not ceasing to exist is somehow because of the infection

and i guess thk

but the infection mainly

[tepid bluff]

the reason the hk is impure was because TPK raised them

[pine karma]

You raise a kid you give him basic human emotions

[tepid bluff]

because it thought "I love my father so I'm impure!"

and I consumed him

[pine karma]

radiance you now cease to exist

also forgotten light your on web

[tepid bluff]

i'm in the abyss and i can't do anything since now i'm just essence

bye

[upbeat sphinx]

Hot take on the pale king's death: He died because he expended all his energy creating the vessels, and used the last of it to train and grow the Hollow Knight.

[pine karma]

worships you

exist now happy

[tepid bluff]

back

i have to do this a lot

[surreal bobcat]

assuming bugs have the dreaming process

can the dream nail go into their dreams?

[tepid bluff]

idk'

[inner wave]

"The knight cant think! He doesnt have a mind!"

The knight: *hits 17 pixel perfect skips in a row to save hollownest 11x faster

[still gulch]

He would have killed him already if he saw him infected and serving the radiance. Infected minds aren't aware they are infected. That's why elder hu was killed by mantises who were fending off the infection. Or how Xero who was once Pale King's most noble soldier raised his sword against him. Yet he lived long enough to continue his unethical facilities in soul sanctum.

[hot lily]

incorrect

[still gulch]

Also infected bugs do show signs. Elder Hu could see the signs and tried to treat them until increasingly getting infected herself.

Anyways thats just my opinion so please correct me if I am wrong

[still gulch]

Y'know the statue in hog for beating all bosses on radiant? Yeah they changed it from "void given mind" to "void given focus".

[hot lily]

Seer dialogue
Dreamgate technique description
Void Heart

[still gulch]

Hk's definition of "Hollow" is still obscure but likely implies the knight had "focus" rather than a mind and will

[pine karma]

broken vessel

[still gulch]

Sealed vessel*

[tepid bluff]

it's dead

sui

[pine karma]

Sealed or broken who cares

[tepid bluff]

broken

it's dead

so the lightseeds took over

[still gulch]

Broken vessel is a broken shell puppeteered by infected seeds who are controlled by the radiance

[pine karma]

#palekingistechniallythereasontheentiretyoftheinfectionhappensbecausehedroveawaythemothtribefromdaradiance

[hot lily]

False, the Moths are to blame

[tepid bluff]

yeah

the citizens

[hot lily]

Moths made the decision willingly

[pine karma]

technically infected even if it's an entity

[tepid bluff]

they served the void too

[pine karma]

not an entity*

[still gulch]

But doesn't seer say the kingdom was built on that betrayal?
Maybe without that there wouldn't have been hallownest

[tepid bluff]

btw i changed my name

yeah

but

[hot lily]

yes, however she makes it clear that the Moths are responsible, not PK

[tepid bluff]

bugs with no minds are better

[still gulch]

The lightseeds are infected. The broken shell isn't a living being.

[tepid bluff]

yeah

[still gulch]

Yeah

[pine karma]

So essentially d**day

[tepid bluff]

it's battle cry is the lightseeds

[pine karma]

Dead and pupeetered

[hot lily]

"How fickle my ancestors must have been. They forsook the light that spawned them. Turned their backs to it...Forgot it even."

[tepid bluff]

great quote

[real mountain]

lore

[pine karma]

Anyway

The infection is really weird when you consider it an actual infection like plague

[hot lily]

it's not a physical disease in origin

[tepid bluff]

radiance...

[pine karma]

that is my point

how to ruin a wallpaper: orange in eyes

[real mountain]

malicious orange juice

[tepid bluff]

the hk is not fully infected since we all saw the hk stab itself

[pine karma]

we all just accept the joke lol

[tepid bluff]

yeah

[pine karma]

HK is suicidal

therefore impure and not fully infected

[real mountain]

hk hated its life

can't blame it tbh

[hot lily]

not why it's impure

[pine karma]

suicidal

[hot lily]

it's impure because PK misunderstood Void

[still gulch]

Imo there could be a perfectly good reason why hk definition of being "hollow" is obscure.
Pale King wasn't sealing the blinding light. He knew the kingdoms demise was inevitable and nothing could have been done. He merely choose the most "Hollow" vessel and made him thk. The goal was to delay what's already inevitable though we don't know for how long he held the infection away.

[tepid bluff]

no

PK raised him

so

he loved his father

[hot lily]

yes, however the raising only exposed something that was already there

[real mountain]

pk thought hk was hollow but he wasn't

[tepid bluff]

he has no fault

[hot lily]

we don't know this

[real mountain]

it's shown in the void heart cutscene hk was impure from the start

[tepid bluff]

sui

[hot lily]

we know that PK cared for THK

[tepid bluff]

yeah

but

[still gulch]

Void is also devoid of thought emotion and will. That's why it is a still liquid doing absolutely nothing since the end of ancient bugs.

[hot lily]

it is not lacking in any of those things

[tepid bluff]

he threw the others in the abyss

really bad father

[real mountain]

bro committed mass infanticide on his own children

[still gulch]

It does. The void only ever helps with the voidheart charm to corner and eventually consume the radiance.

[tepid bluff]

white lady must have been sad

[real mountain]

fr

[pine karma]

||it's possible the knight is impure too

every vessel could be impure ngl

this is why I hate the hollow knight ending

it did decide in the dream no more ending to dream nail HK and defeat the Radiance

I mean it had a player who can make decisions controlling it||

super cool bombshell of a theory that totally hasn't been done before and totally isn't 59% right

[hot lily]

nope, Void can think on its own & has its own will because it can make the decision to either push beings away or pull them in to tear them apart; this is stated in the WJ book

[real mountain]

"why tf did i marry this guy"

[surreal bobcat]

another godess..

[tepid bluff]

yeah

[surreal bobcat]

oh speaking of this name is stupid.

[tepid bluff]

are you that monarch that got rebelled

[hot lily]

the player isn't canon

[tepid bluff]

by the weavers

[pine karma]

ingoring the player

[pine karma]

this indeed isn't deltarune

[surreal bobcat]

yeah

[still gulch]

"Inspired or mad, those ancient bugs. They devoted their worship to no lord, or power, or strength, but to the very darkness itself."
The void is just pure destruction. No reason, no thinking, no feelings.

[surreal bobcat]

arent you the one that the moths left?

[tepid bluff]

you are very similar to me

[real mountain]

||hornet says that you can prolong the kingdom's stasis, not keep it in that stasis forever. i'm pretty sure the knight sealing the infection within itself wasn't supposed to be a permanent solution.||

[tepid bluff]

yeah

[pine karma]

indeed

[surreal bobcat]

anyway, i shall go to

art discussion

[hot lily]

the quote you gave doesn't support your argument at all

[pine karma]

it's likely he'll fail at one point and once more another vessel appears

[tepid bluff]

i am a good god

but

the moths

turned away

[hot lily]

i'm going to bed now

[tepid bluff]

💀

[real mountain]

git gud

[tepid bluff]

nah

i crush kid's dreams

[still gulch]

It does. All void does is destroy. Without any reason, feelings or thinking. It doesn't even have a voice just like the "pure vessel" pk imagined.

[tepid bluff]

but suffer at the same time

[real mountain]

lol skill issue

[tepid bluff]

beat me

[still gulch]

Ngl it is a pretty unfair match
1 being of light vs all of void

[real mountain]

i have

[pine karma]

The hollow knight ending is a loop theory

forever after the knight becomes the next hollow knight when it becomes the hollow knight essentially (we can blame reality just changing for no reason for the horns changing) another vessel comes which is the knight in the next playthrough and you get the point

I didn't mean to send that lol

[tepid bluff]

NOOOO It can't BE

[real mountain]

not in p5 but we don't talk about that

[tepid bluff]

skill issue

[real mountain]

shutter

[pine karma]

Prob was gonna add more or refine it

[tepid bluff]

come meet me

[real mountain]

my save got deleted 😭

[tepid bluff]

in p5

[pine karma]

I worship you

[tepid bluff]

NOOOO

I

Cant

FIGHT you

[still gulch]

Off screen maybe

[real mountain]

i cooked you in hall of gods that's good enough

[tepid bluff]

sealed siblings is not canon to silksong

hornet dies to the bindngs

[real mountain]

fr does silksong completely decanonize sealed siblings

[tepid bluff]

the bindings are made for your kind

[real mountain]

cuz tc said all the endings were canon

i wonder what they say now

[tepid bluff]

NAH

i think dream no more is most canon

[real mountain]

my favorite ending

makes most sense too

[tepid bluff]

but embrace the void-

she might die to the hk

cause he came

out

and they fight

[real mountain]

i'm pretty sure hk was just confused for a moment

[tepid bluff]

yeah

because

he's been there for 200 years

[real mountain]

they probably fought for a moment before hornet knocked some sense into him

[tepid bluff]

or more

yeah

[real mountain]

or she dies idk

[pine karma]

How to ruin my wallpaper

[real mountain]

NO

[pine karma]

You ruined it dumbass who did this I will murder you

[tepid bluff]

wait void-consumed godseeker might kill hornet

[real mountain]

why did you have to ruin the chillest picture of the knight 😭

[tepid bluff]

in embrace the void

[pine karma]

who did this

[real mountain]

of all of them why that one

[pine karma]

I will murder who did this

[tepid bluff]

yes

[real mountain]

unless it's delicate flower

[tepid bluff]

the infection

is spreading

[pine karma]

YOU I WILL MURDER YOU

[real mountain]

💀

[tepid bluff]

I'm dead

[real mountain]

the nickname makes this so much more ironic

"radiance did nothing wrong"

[pine karma]

SIGHH

worships you

[tepid bluff]

good moth

[pine karma]

Be alive

[tepid bluff]

nah i'm just essence now

[real mountain]

[tepid bluff]

chilling in a dream nail

[real mountain]

tf are these emojis 💀

[tepid bluff]

[pine karma]

uses my powers of changing the multiverse and makes you the Radiance again

[tepid bluff]

nah a vessel will kill me again

[real mountain]

[tepid bluff]

and become the next shade lord

[real mountain]

you getting jumped

[tepid bluff]

yah

OHHH

again.

[pine karma]

I made you immortal

[real mountain]

to suffer for eternity

[tepid bluff]

nah that's boring so

[pine karma]

infects myself

[tepid bluff]

heheheha

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gif-27244621

[real mountain]

real

[pine karma]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-hollow-knight-hello-hello-chat-gif-14931846893956668875

[tepid bluff]

that's not me

that's the radiance

i'm the prime form

[pine karma]

absolute radiance is the Radiance

[tepid bluff]

no

[pine karma]

https://tenor.com/view/radiance-abyss-hollow-knight-mods-gif-14033875893492590975

[tepid bluff]

that's the radiance

old me

i'm stronger

[pine karma]

"HOW I OBTAINED PERFECTION" - Jared
ahhh

[forest hearth]

the white screen fades in... the bosses name appears on screen...

ABSOLUTE SHITPOSTING

[tepid bluff]

silk!!!

you're back!!!

howas your part wyrm child doin

i'm dead.

[surreal bobcat]

that never happened

[tepid bluff]

ye

it did

[surreal bobcat]

i was referencing something else

anyway uh

[tepid bluff]

how's the part wyrm kid doin

hornet

[tepid bluff]

she helped that vessel get in

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-hollow-knight-breakdance-gif-4991443249772973911

[vale oyster]

Hey radiance which ending was canon?

[tepid bluff]

me too!!!

[tepid bluff]

everything except sealed sibling and silk would not be there

no

[pseudo lance]

Don't think silksong spoilers are allowed here

[surreal bobcat]

oh

[tepid bluff]

no i' in the abyss

[surreal bobcat]

SHOOT

[tepid bluff]

i think the infection was a really cool idea

[surreal bobcat]

anyway

i have to go now im being pulled out of the area because silksong

[vale oyster]

No but who killed you? The shade lord or the 2 shadow zombie babies

[surreal bobcat]

sorry everyone

[pine karma]

Jet (my NON HOLLOW KNIGHT oc)'s human "why am I here and shrunk and here" ass stuck in the abyss watching random vessels exist in one completely random timeline:

[pine karma]

sorby

saw-B

[tepid bluff]

usurp and that big boy and 100 others

[vale oyster]

How are the mods going to clean up all this 😭

[tepid bluff]

mybro has my account

😭 😭

guys

[pine karma]

Disprovement

Somehow, this is on the WIKI

It used to be a vessel

Good enough

[lusty plinth]

what’s wrong here

[young flower]

why do ppl keep talking about the ogrim boat and how its coming to sea of sorrow

[vale oyster]

They're joking

Sea of sorrow isn't real

Ogrim boat is completely real though

[young flower]

am being fr bro

[vale oyster]

Sea of sorrow is real and ogrim boat is not real

[lusty plinth]

The sea is real

Sorrow is a matter of perspective

[pastel yoke]

Do we know how the pale king died? What did him in?

[ebon patio]

this is discussed a lot, one theory is that pk used too much money on sawblades and starved to death

on a serious note its possible the void contaminated his throne room and he slowly withered away

[wanton zephyr]

Or it’s simply guilt

[vale oyster]

I believe that he let himself get killed, or willingly died

[vale oyster]

Because his final thoughts are "no cost too great", which doesn't indicate that he was startled by anything dangerous right before his death

[ebon patio]

yeah if an intruder killed him his dream dialogue would be like "NOOOOO WTF-"

[neat kite]

do we think all Wyrms are Higher Beings?

since they are only stated to be powerful ancient beings, with Foresight

if they all are Higher Beings, fact that they died out collectively makes no sense

clearly Pale Wyrm is just special wyrm, most wyrms are ancient beings not much else

like Palestag is a exception of Cloverstags and is stag touched pale, and Pale King could have been exception of wyrms and have been Pale Higher Being Wyrm

[tame zenith]

Am I allowed to share theory’s here
As I had a theory as to what what the battle of black wyrm was, or what they were fighting

[vale oyster]

Go ahead

[blissful crest]

you can share but you must realize that it has no evidence so its provably gonna get shot down for being raw speculation

[tame zenith]

Ah dang fair
The theory was just the battle of black wyrm was actually a battle against a lost pale king

[blissful crest]

okay well that entails silksong and would be wrong regardless

That phenomenon is only applicable to another higher being’s abilities + void

[tame zenith]

Ah alright

Should I delete my message orrrr

[knotty imp]

It could have been another Wyrm, but it's a battle only mentioned in White Defender's journal entry, which in itself does not grant that much information to us

Everything regarding the Knotted Grove, Champion's Call and Battle of the Blackwyrm fall into speculative areas due to the lack of details

We do know that Ogrim participated in them due to their mentions, and he also remembers the other Great Knights towards the end, which means that they were major conflicts/events

However, out of all the three major events, the Battle of the Blackwyrm caught the eyes of all lore seekers, in no small part due to the knowledge we have on the Wyrms

[quick fossil]

Yo does anyone else think silk song comes before Hollow Knight timeline wise

[vale oyster]

It is definitely after hk

[raw snow]

Ye we meet the knight in pharloom then he wanders back to hallownest to save hallownest, turn into shade lord and kill radiance

[mighty dove]

This is true, I was there

[quick fossil]

But the the knight dies in almost every single ending and the one he doesn't die he becomes the shade Lord and descends into the Abyss

[blissful crest]

no they don’t

[vale oyster]

Thats why only some endings lead to silksong

[smoky wyvern]

is there any lore reason for the elevators in city of tears having fucking SPIKES on their roof? js curious

[serene vapor]

Design choices

Pale king liked spiky things

[vale oyster]

Even the stag station in city of tears had spikes on the roof

[vale oyster]

The real reason for that is probably that the player character slides off of curved surfaces in the game, so they added spikes to not let anyone onto that surface

[smoky wyvern]

isnt it extremely dangerous to have spikes on an elevator in your capital city. wont that choice be kinda idiotic by the all-knowing wise pale king our true lord and saviour

[vale oyster]

I mean he had parkour in his own house

Lethal parkour

[serene vapor]

The white palace wasn't always like that though

[smoky wyvern]

1. Im pretty sure that happened after he started panicking over the infection

and 2.

hes the guy who sacrificed thousands of his kids

to save the civilians

so why would he endanger them for a design choice

[vale oyster]

True

[serene vapor]

The dream version of the White Palace (in the mind of the guard) was created like that in case someone entered it (through the dream nail or other means) in order to protect the king.

[vale oyster]

Makes sense

Although the wingsmould parkour is real

Skong spoilers- ||Hornet remembers the palace having wingsmould parkour||

[serene vapor]

I don't really think that the areas shown in Red Memory were actually like that when Hornet was there

[smoky wyvern]

i thought that white palace has it as a paranoid defense mechanism designed to prevent radiance specifically. idk tho ur explanation makes sense too.

[wanton zephyr]

Is it wingsmould parkour or just wingsmoulds, tho

[vale oyster]

Dont you need them to cross the gap?

[wanton zephyr]

Cuz we could see the wingsmoulds shells in the king’s workshop so those def exist

The real question is if people actually parkour off of them

And if the white palace actually have gaps in them, same question to the rest of the unnatural architecture in this game

Or does it just seem this way cuz it’s 2D

[vale oyster]

True

[vale oyster]

This might be a gameplay before lore situation

[tropic plover]

That's actually really sad

Imagine your job being to be jumped on

[neat kite]

lol, true

[mild dune]

i think the shadelord is void

he has the liquid form

and he looks void-like

[tropic plover]

He is void

[keen topaz]

Wow and I think grass is a plant

[mild dune]

i love how it looks like everyone thought i was deadass

[wraith mortar]

Guys

I just want to ask a question

[wanton zephyr]

You’d assume it was deadass cuz it’s the lore channel

[mild dune]

If ur saying that I wasn’t supposed to say that in this channel, My joke was meant to be in the context of theorizing so I assumed 3 lines of text wouldn’t cause much damage

[polar raptor]

Hey i didn't really understand how quirrel died ?

[near sequoia]

Probably old age after he took off the life extending mask (after which he collapses to the ground and his voice becomes noticeably raspier)

Be on your journey then, and allow me rest a time. With the deed complete, I begin to feel my age

[blissful crest]

you’re welcome gang

Not the channel to post random screenshots

[polar raptor]

Thanks you he is a really good char

[near sequoia]

true...

[neat kite]

are Gods of Thunder and Gods of Rain ,from Land of Storms, a Higher Being?

[pulsar void]

Almost there

[hot lily]

We don't know

[serene vapor]

I mean, probably... Higher Beings are typically referred to as gods (like how GMS is called a god by the Caretaker at the end of Act 2 in Silksong).

So Gods = Higher Beings

Unless you asked about whether the "Gods of Thunder and Rain" are actually gods, since Godseeker thinks a freaking bush with caterpillars is indeed a god.

[grizzled wigeon]

I think they are

[hot lily]

Higher Beings are "gods" according to Godseeker however there are "gods" who are not Higher Beings

[neat kite]

true

[serene vapor]

That is why I said that the Godseeker thinks of any great bug (for example bosses) as a god.

So just because Godseeker wants to worship a Gruz Mother, that doesn't mean it's a god

I get your point

[teal obsidian]

Y’all know anything abt this room in Grimms tent?

[tepid bluff]

hi

[tepid bluff]

WHAT

https://tenor.com/view/grimm-gif-26058981

[teal obsidian]

Just kidding

I have no idea what it is

[hot lily]

We have no idea about it

[pine karma]

if Hallownest had an EAS system we'd probably had like 100 hazardous material warnings

valid theory

[languid granite]

How do bugs go to the toliet

[blissful crest]

Can you not be inappropriate

[teal obsidian]

Mb bro

[humble current]

They don't

[pine karma]

1. are you okay?
2. no

[west owl]

[pine karma]

mobile hollow knight user
laugh at this likely pirator

[hot lily]

memer in chat

[green pilot]

I mean if they did it legitimately they might as well have earned it

Like beating all bosses on radiant is no easy feat

Though pirating is still bad

[ripe solar]

i did all on radiant in like 3 days

but i played like 8+ hours a day

almost cried on markoth

[pine karma]

indeed

[sharp shuttle]

logged on hk to help a friend and found this guy

never seen him before the number of times i passed by here'

[ripe solar]

lol i thought it never leaves that place

[humble current]

They're normally in a secret room on the way up to the nailmaster's hut

[opal cloud]

The guy comes out of his cave when you open godseekers cocoon

[unkempt hollow]

If a weaver and a bee had a child (could they have children?), what would it look like?

[pine karma]

The plot of hollow knight in a nutshell:
Radiance: oh some dumbasses forgot about me and they aren't even half of Hallownest's population so I make everyone like literally everyone not even just the people who forgot about me basically mindcontrolled
hocus pokus focus mocus your will is mine now
some random bug: WHAT DID I EVER DO TO YOU
Radiance: shut

(Bit of a joke but here it is)

[humble current]

I doubt they could

[unkempt hollow]

But iiiiffff

I have sketches 😄

[humble current]

Is this lore

[unkempt hollow]

Yes, since I'm asking what it would look like

It's cause I'm trying to draw it, but what it would look like is lore related

[amber meteor]

Why does Jinn want your rancid eggs so badly

[unkempt hollow]

It's his food

[wheat epoch]

Somebody has any tip for absolute radiance in pantheon 5

[real mountain]

play pv very safe 💀

[hot lily]

not for this channel

[pine karma]

Radiance in 3 subjects:

• vengeful murderous genocidal God moth
• creator of covid 19 the squeakquel
• in all tropes half a misunderstood villain half a villain I mean she was nearly ceasing to exist but I'm sure there's ways to y'know not cause covid 20

[old sentinel]

Actually, COVID 19 the squeakquel is what happens when you struggle against the Radiance and lose, but if you accept it willingly, you end up like the Traitor Tribe, just slightly deformed.

[still gulch]

I bet you connected a third party controller to your device

Guys how can we know the Radiance had manipulated soul scholars into thinking this was to solution to the infection?

They are a group who study soul likely for a very long time.

Considering soul master says "but the king why he opposed everything I did"

[amber bronze]

how do u do that

oh thats just what the entrance to godhome is called

ive never seen him tho

[still gulch]

Likely implying he had several other goals and researches with soul.

[karmic crescent]

This is #hk-lore not #sk-lore

[half coyote]

Oops

[pallid wharf]

Guys hornet is not gay

Hornet is storng independent woman

But not gay

[smoky wyvern]

huh

warra do

[placid quiver]

Strong independent woman with with many sleep partners

[hot gale]

I know this is hk lore but in sk the hunters journal says hornet had multiple affairs

[old sentinel]

She's bi then

[smoky wyvern]

what 😭

warra do

[ebon patio]

well nothing about that journal entry says she was

she couldve had affairs with guys only

.. why am i talking about this

[torpid parrot]

No cost too great

[lusty plinth]

You promised I would live forever!
Did their souls bring me closer to the light?
That voice...Was it never there...?

[timber snow]

late but he also says he got the idea to use soul from his dreams

[karmic crescent]

He's buying them for his friend (though not stated it's obvious it's Jiji)

[blissful crest]

"In my dreams I could see it"

[old sentinel]

Lacenet is so popular that people consider it canon, and I'm pretty sure Team Cherry themselves made a positive comment about it. Either way, the fandom almost unanimously rules it canon lmao

[smoky wyvern]

guys whats the lore behind elevators having spikes? any reason the pale king endagered his citizens by having such a dangerous design choice or is it a game over lore case?

[vale oyster]

Lace is a child, but I'm not starting this shit again

Plus we're not in the sk channel

[karmic crescent]

Never thought deeper about those spikes. But I assume it's to not overload the elevator. As some bugs might hop on top of it or cling onto it. Increased weight increases the risk of the rope tearing so causing more loss in the long run

[lusty plinth]

could mean anything

the quotes i posted are more direct

[lusty plinth]

the fandom almost unanimously rules it canon

[hot lily]

false

[shy crow]

Dawg what is this conversation

It never said affairs it said mates, and it’s to be interpreted that they were throughout her life, not all at once

Hornet literally says they could never match her lifespan

Heavily insinuating they’ve all died long ago

[shy crow]

Unanimously is also a massive stretch, but it doesn’t matter if people consider it so if it has no actual basis or proof

And team cherry themselves have stated in the past that just because their statements can imply things whether direct or indirect, it doesn’t make it canon

And as someone else said before

Lace is either a child or simply very childish in nature

Hornet, based off her personality which we’ve seen throughout the two games, would NOT be into that

That’s my 2 cents on all this

[smoky wyvern]

but majority of the population of CoT are winged anyways so its not like too many people would even use the elevators. In fact, building on this winged creatures point, wont the elevators greatly obstruct mobility for the winged creatures. And what about those giants with shields (idk what theyre called) who are too big for fitting in there.

[sage bronze]

most of the population is not winged

[vale oyster]

The winged ones and the guards don't live in the houses we see

[blissful crest]

stop discussing silksong here

[vale oyster]

Its just the rich people

[shy crow]

It’s only the guards that have wings? Every common sentient bug (in hallownest) we’ve seen has been flightless

[wanton zephyr]

I’m sure it’s just aesthetic
Have you seen how pointy PK’s horns are
Maybe he just want them to have his symbolism

[smoky wyvern]

right mb about that i assumed that the bugs we see in game were the only ones in cot i forgot bugs used to travel around before the infection

[wanton zephyr]

It’s lwk messed up that those elevators don’t have floor doors to prevent people from falling down lol…

[shy crow]

In practice they probably do, it’s just for the sake of simplicity and game mechanics they don’t

[vale oyster]

A lot of places just have spikes for some reason
There might not be a lore reason for it

[smoky wyvern]

yeah when u think about it, they had the door tech anyways. why didnt pk implement that?

[wanton zephyr]

I blame all questionable architecture on the game being 2D

[karmic crescent]

They are guards. They don't need to use the elevator unless an emergency

[wanton zephyr]

If we take it at face value nobody would be going anywhere cuz the floors are too far from each other and most bugs can’t jump that high

[smoky wyvern]

i forgot that the bugs we see in game werent the only ones who ever visited cot thats mb. but still, there are many other ways of preventing bugs from overloading - the way irl elevators do with floor doors like john angst said

[karmic crescent]

And the elevator is very likely used for transporting goods. As the elevator connects to dandy town (ccmaci reference)

[smoky wyvern]

but then the question arises of how bugs would travel in cot

[karmic crescent]

Yea no worries. The lore is very expansive. It's easy to forget

[vale oyster]

Apart from the carts in the station, it looks like everyone walks
And those carts are probably for goods, and not people

[karmic crescent]

Good point. But who knows. I don't think team cherry researched about elevators when creating them

But I could be wrong

[shy crow]

At face value none of the common bugs would be making it through fungal, let alone surviving green path

[smoky wyvern]

a lot of the architecture in cot is vertical. it is impossible to traverse without those elivators in the city

[vale oyster]

This is one of the instances where we have to invoke the third dimension

[vale oyster]

True

[wanton zephyr]

Erm actually there are stairs we just don’t see them cuz they are somewhere in the background that neither you nor I can access

[smoky wyvern]

the mosskin and mushroom peoples had agreed to being subject to the PK. before the infection, they were all peaceful and it was common for cot immigrants to go through fw and gp

[wanton zephyr]

Oh yea cuz swimming in acid is very common among bugs

[shy crow]

I mean as of the events of the game

[smoky wyvern]

could actually be a valid reason

[smoky wyvern]

yeah but vefore the infection travelling to cot was common so these elevators wouldve been a valid problem

[shy crow]

The route fell into decay and there are massive holes straight into spikes and or acid

[shy crow]

Well yeah, that’s just an affect of the game being 2d and simplistic in its mechanical design

[smoky wyvern]

the elevators existed before that, and they wouldve proved a massive problem considering they were designed without anything in mind tho. no floor doors, spikes on the roof, easy to fall into elevator chambers. very bad design in general

[karmic crescent]

Are we really doing a thesis on elevators of all things 🙏

I mean valid cuz they really be wasting our time

Even the TAS speedrun has to sit still for these 💀

[smoky wyvern]

a rope to climb like we see in forgotten crossroads would be better for gameplay and for the bugs of hallownest to traverse imo

PK made a really dumb decision on these elevators

[vale oyster]

Yes

[serene vapor]

I assume bugs would be smart enough to use the elevators safely.

[smoky wyvern]

but accidents are very possible. even humans require floor doors, closed elevator chambers, and fucking SPIKELESS ELEVATORS 😭

[karmic crescent]

Just look at humans. App developers know very well you gotta assume your users are the dumbest

[serene vapor]

Well this IS a fantasy bug land inside a video game.

[smoky wyvern]

doesnt make them immune to accidents

[serene vapor]

well yea

The developers didn't think about the spikes in a lore related way

[vale oyster]

Curved surfaces act goofy in hk

So add spikes

[serene vapor]

You are a genius

You solved our dilemma

[vale oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-14770887436103544323

[serene vapor]

yes you

I love how people have been disecting every little piece of lore about the elevators in City of Tears for a whole day

[smoky wyvern]

game over lore then

makes sense

but...make the roofs flat...save the bugs of hallownest....everyone happy...add floor doors....

[shy crow]

I prefer the spike aesthetic either way, more gothic

[karmic crescent]

They DID make a fix for the big elevators

[ebon patio]

pk probably added spikes on elevators to get rid of stupid bug genes

so that only stupid bugs die and hallownest gets filled with smart bugs

[smoky wyvern]

eugenics is the solution gng

what if stupid bug pushes epstein - i mean einstein bug into spike

[ebon patio]

[old sentinel]

Bro we should start doing that IRL lmao

(jk)

[ebon patio]

if a bug was truly as smart as einstein he or she wouldnt go near stupid bugs

[smoky wyvern]

guys im telling u the solution to our dillema is js the pale king was not as smart as he seems. he js doctored all the records in hallownest and spread his propaganda to make everyone believe he was perfect

[smoky wyvern]

what if he was js traversing cot and a dumb bug is near him

you cant js make sure only dumb bugs die

its very risky

[ebon patio]

nah they would have great husk sentrys bodyguarding them 24/7 till all stupid bugs are died

[wanton zephyr]

Clearly the spikes are there to aid in murder since you can just push anyone into an elevator shaft and they will die

Coupled with nails and weapons allowed in the city

Yes even the guards

[karmic crescent]

I mean

[wanton zephyr]

Push them into those spikes you know you want to

[shy crow]

My discord just lagged out that was weird

[shy crow]

Still picking Hallownest over Pharloom every day of the week

[smoky wyvern]

real

[karmic crescent]

The last stag did say "I never saw them ride one (stag). But I heard he shined brightly" (paraphrased)

Pk was so heavily guarded that even the last stag didn't even see him

[smoky wyvern]

yeah like what if the pale king was js dumb af

but nobody knew

[shy crow]

Or maybe the stag was the one being guarded from the pale king

[smoky wyvern]

i mean if u see what pk did after hk failed to contain radiance

[wanton zephyr]

Or maybe PK is just as elusive as the game suggested

[serene vapor]

I don't think PK was really seen much

[smoky wyvern]

hes prolly js low iq

and the fact that he showed parental love for someone meant to be hollow

[wanton zephyr]

He put the white palace near the abyss just so he doesn’t have to interact with his citizens

That’s how you know he’s an introvert

[old sentinel]

PK just stayed in White Palace and the Ancient Basin/ Abyss entryway

[old sentinel]

Yes

[karmic crescent]

Yea he wasn't but the one bug who's meant for establishing communication didn't even see him

[shy crow]

I mean to be fair, you try having a kid then

[smoky wyvern]

guys i have a theory. a little game theory, if you will.

the pale king was not the ruler of hallownest. instead he was a puppet of someone else ("Under PALEST watch/You taught we changed..."). The way the British EIC was the one who first conquered india, PK was sent by a paler being to conquer hallownest for him, and PK acted like a puppet and all his decisions were actually that of the paler being. in the end, when PK knew hallownest was doomed, he decided not to obey the paler beings orders to sacrifice himself for the kingdom and instead hid himself off. Also, what if during this little "revolt" by the PK, he purposefully added spikes across his capital and made his home full of buzzsaws so the paler being cant reach him and punish him.

maybe that last part about the spikes requires some more tuning but you get the main idea

[serene vapor]

You are thinking wayyy out of the box

[vale oyster]

I thought it was for ancient civilization fanboying purposes

[ebon patio]

'under palest watch' refers to pk watching the people of hallownest

not a pale watching pk

[serene vapor]

Under palest watch means he gave the bugs sapience

and ruled over them

[smoky wyvern]

right but the way its framed it implies that under that pale watch pk taught them

[smoky wyvern]

no that comes under "you taugh/we changed/ base instincts were redeemed"

gang it could lowk work

does nobody else see the vision

[karmic crescent]

All this from some elevators 🙏😭

[smoky wyvern]

i understand archeologists now

it all lies in the buildings trust fr

[karmic crescent]

I mean I see your vision

But it's not sound

There's multiple caveats

[smoky wyvern]

ill find a workaround tell me the problems

[karmic crescent]

Others have already pointed above

"Under palest watch"

This is the main problem

It specifically refers to pk

[smoky wyvern]

this tho

the grammer

UNDER palest watch you taught

[karmic crescent]

Also the palace was always in the ancient basin

[smoky wyvern]

when i say that under my watch you did that act it means i overseed (oversaw?) u doing it

[karmic crescent]

It's oversaw and also it's meant to be poetic

[smoky wyvern]

thats a problem cause what exactly

[karmic crescent]

Maybe because he had foresight

[wanton zephyr]

If that sentence is structured in common tongue it would be “you taught us under [your] palest watch”

[smoky wyvern]

i get the poetic liberty and all, but considering the fact that no matter when you go to dirtmouth, it is never day, which implies dirtmouth is probably underground (maybe being underground is canon cus idk enuf). so they wouldnt exactly know about the moon, and so a pale watch cant exactly refer to something natural like the moon

[smoky wyvern]

thats up to interpration (idk how to spell), it could also be restructured as "you taught them under the palest watch"

[smoky wyvern]

explain pls im dumb

[karmic crescent]

Yea it is underground. Quirrel says so. Also he is the pale thing the poem is referring to

[karmic crescent]

He's a transformed wyrm. Wyrms have foresight

[sage bronze]

elegy for hallownest is an elegy for hallownest which was under palest watch because the pale king is pale

[smoky wyvern]

like im saying the pale thing is up to interpratition

[smoky wyvern]

no i mean how is that related to ancient basin

[karmic crescent]

Oh

[smoky wyvern]

but a paler being would be the palest.

“Palest” is a comparative, it implies a scale. Pale, paler, palest.

[karmic crescent]

It's never stated but my headcannon is that it's just easier to pick and choose the best corrupted vessel and also to get away from civilization so when the inevitable comes none can hunt him down. That's why the his guards are specific to only his palace

[sage bronze]

do you know what a poem is it's for the meter

[karmic crescent]

Yo you're taking it way too literally

Pk is canonically the palest

[smoky wyvern]

and PKs actions

1. Builds a kingdom on enlightenment and higher thought.
2. Then immediately panic-builds a void god baby mass murder genocide thing factory.
3. Then abandons everything without a visible last stand
   the PK is not emotionally consistent if he’s a fully sovereign ruler.

[smoky wyvern]

wait fr?

[karmic crescent]

Or atleast the palest that's mentioned that you might say

[karmic crescent]

It's not stated directly but it can be deduced as such

[smoky wyvern]

"Based on Hollow Knight lore, the Pale King is consistently referred to as a "Higher Being" known for his intense white light, but it is not explicitly stated that he is "canonically the palest" creature in the universe. "

[smoky wyvern]

but it can also be deduced that there is a paler being. as stated before, palest implies a hierarchy. pale, paler, palest

[karmic crescent]

Also

Wait

I got it

When you're talking about the earth would you talk about the Andromeda Galaxy?

Exactly

[smoky wyvern]

there was no valid way the radiance himself could escape the black egg temple. the only reason PK might need the protection of the saws in his house is to protect him from a higher paler being

[smoky wyvern]

?

thats like saying when talking about hallownest would u meantion pharloom

[karmic crescent]

If there is really a paler being in the greater hk universe then it still doesn't matter. The poem refers to Hallownest not the greater hk universe

[karmic crescent]

Exactly my point

[sage bronze]

she can and in fact the events of the game are her doing that

[smoky wyvern]

say there was a poem on india made in like the 1800s. while referring to the takeover of india by the british eic, it would still likely mention the british crown too.

[smoky wyvern]

the infection is spreading. the physical embodiment of radiance herself is trapped

[sage bronze]

there is no physical embodiment the infection spreading is her escaping

[smoky wyvern]

no i mean the moth sun thing is still trapped

[sage bronze]

not for long

[karmic crescent]

Yes. But any consequent changes to the state would also be visible in poems written after that period of time

We are shown the elegy because it is still true

It is the truth that still stands

[smoky wyvern]

no. the first line "in wilds beyond they speak your name with reverence and regret." not a single mention under that context was given about PK in the game

[karmic crescent]

Any paler being that might've shown their power would've influenced a newer elegy

[smoky wyvern]

hallownest was a gone case PG (pale god or whatever) might no longer have interest in it

[karmic crescent]

That's the point. That paler god has no use in the lore

[sage bronze]

because the elegy is about hallownest it's an elegy for hallownest not pk

the 'you' is hallownest

[smoky wyvern]

and if you analyse "you taught we changed". not "you ruled" or you created or enlightened. taught. taught something that has been common knowledge in some other context or location

[smoky wyvern]

no the you is pk because as we can see "you taught/we changed"

hallownest didnt teach

PK did

[sage bronze]

'only this kingdom could produce one such as you' and his beacon is a magical effect on the land

[smoky wyvern]

for hallownest, no. but it could still have lore implications elsewhere for an entire pale civilisation or smth idk

[karmic crescent]

We're playing hk here dawg. All we care about is Hallownest

Not some other place

[smoky wyvern]

where are you quoting this from? context?

[smoky wyvern]

yes but that doesnt mean we ignore what happens outside, especially if an outsider has come into hallownest

[sage bronze]

king's pass tablet

[karmic crescent]

Yea. You can write a book creating your own extended hk universe but it isn't canon unless it has enough evidence to prove its existence

[smoky wyvern]

ok so i found the full quote nad its "Higher beings, these words are for you alone. Within our lands do not hide your true form. Let all bask in your majesty, for only this kingdom could produce one such as you."
this might not be referring to PK

[smoky wyvern]

nono all im saying is we should disregard a theory js because it isnt directly related to the events of the game

cus by that logic theres no point chasing about who esmy is

or why the training dummy is there in kingdoms edge

[sage bronze]

These blasted plains stretch never-ending. There is no world beyond.
Those foolish enough to traverse this void must pay the toll and relinquish the precious mind this kingdom grants.

[smoky wyvern]

cus they dont have any impact on gamepaly the just exist

[karmic crescent]

I mean yea. It's a lost cause. No one can build a good enough lore that actually stands. In the end it's futile

[smoky wyvern]

we know that first line is false because literally pharloom?

[sage bronze]

that is totally irrelevant to the point being made

[smoky wyvern]

no but the thing you were quoting is invalid cus it has factual innacuracies

[sage bronze]

the beacon and its effects are associated with the land

[smoky wyvern]

oh thats ur point

lemme think wait

[sage bronze]

elegy for hallownest attributes shit to the land in exactly the same way and remains an elegy for hallownest

[wide saffron]

why hasnt the traitor lord got into white ladies room yet(idk alot of hollow knight lore)

[sage bronze]

may have just not had a chance to yet

[wide saffron]

i mean he could break in hes been there for a while

or maybe hes just unable

[smoky wyvern]

ok wait since the beacon is associated with the land it is unlikely that PK could be the pure source of enlightenment. thus, there must be something (even if not a paler god) else giving enlightenment, because this implies that intelligence literally js radiates from the grounds of hallownest, yet we also know the bugs used to be savage, thus something brought about this enlightement

[sage bronze]

his beacon caused it

[smoky wyvern]

oh wait theres a physical beacon

[sage bronze]

which he caused

[smoky wyvern]

nvm

[sage bronze]

no it's a spell

[smoky wyvern]

ok

[pseudo zodiac]

why quirrel can destroy uumuu shield while knight can't?

they both use a sword like weapon after all

[karmic crescent]

He just strong like that

He got that dawg in him

[pseudo zodiac]

even so much stronger than the pure version of nail which was so great nail smith wanted him to be killed by it?

[smoky wyvern]

why did he restrict knowledge to the boundaries of hallownest tho

[sage bronze]

why would that be a voluntary limitation

[smoky wyvern]

oh like his powers js werent strong enough

ok ok makes sense

but still how do you explain his endgame. he sacrificed millions of his kids to save the kingdom, literally "gave your (his) all, and then gave more", did everything in his power to save the citizens, and then js ran off

[sage bronze]

he did everything he could and it failed

so he couldn't do anything

so he lost

[smoky wyvern]

but a real leader willing to do everything he js did would have stayed with his citizens till the end, ready to fight radiance once the seal breaks

[karmic crescent]

Eh honestly I don't know man. Maybe because the knight wasn't fast enough to pierce it

[sage bronze]

he can't fight her

[smoky wyvern]

ok im genuinely uneducated on this part of the lore. why not?

[sage bronze]

formless enemy

[pseudo zodiac]

maybe the structure of it was too bouncy idk, nail is pretty massive

[karmic crescent]

Quirrel jumps and pierces like an arrow

[pseudo zodiac]

can't knight just stab smh

dumb ahh knight

[smoky wyvern]

doesnt knight fight his physical form tho

[sage bronze]

no

[pulsar void]

shawarma

[round topaz]

What is the collector?

[blissful crest]

No, the Knight enters the dream realm and kicks her butt there

At that point they had also evolved past PK and become a higher being with unified void

[still gulch]

I'll kill a thousand more...Will that be enough, father?

What does Zote mean by that?

Second question is how the hunter is not infected? His journal about infected bugs have literal cooking advices

[gray flume]

I have a theory

The collector is a failed kingsmold

If you kill one of them

You can see their fragile void part

[blissful crest]

that doesn’t matter

[gray flume]

And their anatomies

Are the same

[blissful crest]

The infection starts mentally physical proximity is irrelevant

[blissful crest]

self explanatory
he’s got daddy issues

[gray flume]

Hey uh could you approve my theory

Idk just try brain working with me on it

[blissful crest]

You are correct yes

[gray flume]

No like brain work with me on it

[blissful crest]

whether they were failed or were intentionally made different is disputed but they are the same sort of creation

[gray flume]

Yes

[still gulch]

Killing a thousand more?

[still gulch]

He eats infected bugs 😭
Of course it matters

[blissful crest]

It doesn’t

It’s a mental disease

[drifting terrace]

who eats infected bugs now??

[blissful crest]

zote’s weapon does literally no damage he hasn’t killed jack shit

[gray flume]

Can we say that infection is similar to brain-eating amœba

[blissful crest]

no

because brain eating amoeba don’t come from seeing a light in your dreams

[gray flume]

I gotta approve that

So why does infection eminates in clusters of blob that even spread on the floor ?

[blissful crest]

when given enough time it manifests physically
But it does not spread physically

[still gulch]

It is an infection. As the name implies it spreads undesirably. Elder Hu, soul scholars etc. were not aware of it. Some like traitors, high likely fools and possibly maggot thief embraced it willingly. The infection however was fend off by mantis warriors led by mantis lords (in which they kill hu)

[blissful crest]

if you genuinely believe the Infection spreads physically idk what to tell you

The game says otherwise

[still gulch]

Seer says there were whispers of faith and shortly after the bugs started to see her in their dreams

[blissful crest]

yes, which corroborates with what I said

[still gulch]

It definetly spread

[still gulch]

How?

[blissful crest]

It does not physically spread

It spreads in dreams

[gray flume]

As @blissful crest said, it is a mental disease so it does NOT spread physically
For example, Alzheimer's disease is not contagious yet it can still affect a lot of people.
You can't get Alzheimer's just by sitting next to someone that is affected by it

[still gulch]

It doesn't explain how stronger spirits like mantis warriors, nail masters and other like hornet and quirel were not infected

[blissful crest]

because they have strong willpower

dawg you keep disproving yourself

[gray flume]

Mantis Lords have high intellectual power, they have enough will to surpass the Infection

[blissful crest]

you yourself said “stronger spirits” and assuming you don’t mean literal essence spirits it is quite literally their strength of spirit and will that makes them uninfected

Same as the Hunter bro

[rugged comet]

Hunter's Journal: Traitor Lord

Hunter's notes:
I have felt that desire. The desire to take the infection into myself. To become stronger, more powerful... these thoughts haunt my dreams during the darkest times. A false hope, but it can burn so brilliantly in one's mind.

@kingoclowns used /journal name: Traitor Lord text: Hunter's notes

[still gulch]

Well then why mantis warriors were stationed in fungal wastes near the village and the mantis village

[blissful crest]

Because that’s where they live?

[sage bronze]

'why are there mantises near the mantis village' is one of the questions of all time

[jade crow]

To protect the entry of the village?

[still gulch]

The whole renown of mantis lords is that they helped fend of infectious

[still gulch]

Exactly what I mena

[gray flume]

they do not theorically fear the Infection since their mind is strong enough to surpass it

[blissful crest]

no

did you play the game?

[still gulch]

They killed elder hu who was pacific but still infected

[blissful crest]

wdym “they helped fend off the infection” no????

What?

[blissful crest]

he wasn’t a pacifist

He was literally accusing the mantises of being infected and causing issues

[jade crow]

Elder was infected?

[blissful crest]

Yes

He basically admits as much post fight

[pure inlet]

Elder Hu was a warrior just like all the warrior dreams

[pine karma]

this channel can be in 2 states:

• endless agruing over an obviously bad theory
• good theories
• the 3rd one, me and absolute radiance just existing here randomly

[pure inlet]

He was an infected healer and thought the mantises were infected and needed to be healed

Or like killed

[rugged comet]

Elder Hu - After battle - Elder Hu Defeat

My mind... it clears. Have we been... sleeping, child?
Aah... I remember. Those proud lords... were they truly monsters? I remember their eyes now... bright and clear. Why then did I fear them so?
If there was madness in that village, it was I who brought it. They were right to cast me out.
When I attacked, they were right to...
They were right to kill...
To kill... me...?
...aah.

@kingoclowns used /npcs dream-warriors name: Elder Hu category: After battle dialogue: Elder Hu Defeat

[still gulch]

I did. It says in hunters journal their relations with old hallownest wasn't so sweet but their civilization stood to this day.

Hallownest died to infection

[blissful crest]

that says nothing about them helping fend off the infection

[still gulch]

Dawg that was the point of the civil war

Between traitors and mantis lords

[blissful crest]

???

did you miss the part where they were called traitors????

they did “embrace the infection” but they immediately turned on the rest

And were kicked out

[sage bronze]

mantises don't have an infection repulsion field

[still gulch]

I am sure they turned against the rest because of the infection.
Your best bet is radiance made them do it

[sage bronze]

that's how infection works yes

they got infected

[blissful crest]

that still doesn’t prove any of your points

they didn’t “help fend off the infection” they kicked out folks who tried killing them

the infection still doesn’t spread physically

[pine karma]

-# radiance finds the state of this channel unforgivable and resets it entirely

[blissful crest]

If that were the case all mantises would be infected and so would every single person aside from like, Dirtmouth, vendors and Emilitia

[sage bronze]

dirtmouth would be too probably

[blissful crest]

I mean, probably only after crossroads gets infected because you can see the air coming out of the well now

[sage bronze]

townspeople used to regularly go down to the black egg temple it would've been carried back up

[still gulch]

I mean bugs sort of forgot who she was

Radiance used to appear in the dreams of bugs before infection too

[pure inlet]

That was the infection

What seer says?

[blissful crest]

No?

she was forgotten by the moths and was only with them previously

[pine karma]

-# joke dont take this literally:
-# radiance iif you could appear in the dreams of bugs just say everything about yourself they remember you now infact list every single thing

[still gulch]

She likely united certain group of hallownest at the expense of their intelligence

[blissful crest]

no she didn’t

[still gulch]

Before pale king came

[blissful crest]

That’s false

[still gulch]

From Bardoon

I heard

[sage bronze]

bardoon is talking about the infection

which

came after

[blissful crest]

Bardoon is speaking about current events

[sage bronze]

he literally calls it a rejection of the wyrm's attempt at order

[still gulch]

For quiet retreat did I climb up here, away from spitting creatures. Ormmph... Yes. High up. Away from simple minds, lost to light.
Theirs is a different kind of unity. Rejection of the Wyrm's attempt at order.
I resist the light's allure. Union it may offer, but also a mind bereft of thought... To instinct alone a bug is reduced...Hrrm...

As monomon states at the beginning certain bugs by instinct were savages deficit of civilised behaviour

[blissful crest]

that doesn’t mean the radiance was controlling everyone before that’s baseless and also untrue

[still gulch]

He speaks of a union among bug kind

[blissful crest]

Bardoon is quite literally commenting on how what the Radiance is doing currently goes against what PK dod

[blissful crest]

Yes, because that is what is happening right now

[pure inlet]

Rad has autonomous bugs that follow her and she didn’t care about the savage beasts
PK uplifts some of those beasts with his beacon, they gain higher thought at the expense of unity (melancholy of disparity)
Rad’s response to the Moths’ betrayal is the Infection, which is the polar opposite; unity and no intelligence

[blissful crest]

That does not mean it happened before

[sage bronze]

what is the union read the text you just posted

[blissful crest]

Again, read the dialogue

if the Radiance had the infection prior the moths would have been totally unable to betray her

[blissful crest]

and he wouldn’t ever need to do the vessel project

All he’d need to do is just focus more on his beacon

[still gulch]

It is literally implied the infection was only familiar with the hive mind of the bees.
The rest of hallownest was not united by the infection

[wary rain]

someone can explain me why hollow knight doesnt appears in in silksong??

[sage bronze]

because it isn't there

[pure inlet]

To keep the ending that leads into Silksong ambiguous

[blissful crest]

😐

you need to read what is being said

they were in a hive mind before

You know, with their queen?

[sage bronze]

[blissful crest]

Because they are bees

With their queen’s death

[pure inlet]

The Infection was in response to the Beacon it didn’t come before

[blissful crest]

The radiance’s hive mind can replace it

[pure inlet]

It’s a rejection

[still gulch]

Yours only explain the second one. And he implies it as "different kind of unity"

[blissful crest]

😐

[sage bronze]

a kind of unity that is what read the next sentence

[still gulch]

Thats what I said???

[pure inlet]

Different kind of unity as all bugs are equally downtrodden and united in their mind, rather than being united in PK’s civilization but in their individual minds

It’s mechanically a different kind of unity

[still gulch]

He speaks of two kinds of "unity".
The unity radiance gave in the expense of bug intelligence.
The "different kind of unity" which is the infection

[sage bronze]

💀

[blissful crest]

Read what is being said

I beg you

[pure inlet]

The unity is the Wyrm’s attempt at order

That is what the infection is “different” from

[still gulch]

Nuh uh your gaslighting wont work here

[blissful crest]

The “two kinds of unity” you are asserting are different are literally the same thing

[blissful crest]

Do you KNOW WHAT GASLIGHTING IS

okay joker calm down

[pure inlet]

Theirs is a different kind of unity. Rejection of the Wyrm’s attempt at order.

Replace order with unity

[dense sonnet]

The Pale King did nothing wrong I agree

[still gulch]

He literally says after that
I resist the light's allure. Union it may offer, but also a mind bereft of thought... To instinct alone a bug is reduced...Hrrm...
Not before it

[pure inlet]

Yeah

Union is what the pale king’s beacon offered as well

[blissful crest]

yes, no one is disagreeing with you calling the infection unity

PK did the same thing

He is not saying rad did this twice

[dense sonnet]

He rejects the unity offered by the infection which is different from the unity the PK tried to achieve

[blissful crest]

just read the dialogue genuinely please I’m begging you

[dense sonnet]

How did you find a version without the caption