sk-lore

[twin dragon]

Yeah we unfortunately dont know their entire voyage

[sick tinsel]

it is

ooo

btw how do yall think hallownest looked at its peak

[lofty beacon]

assumption?

[sinful nimbus]

way better than pharloom fr

[sick tinsel]

ye

[sick tinsel]

no underpaid workers

[lofty beacon]

That's why it's called the underworks!

[twin dragon]

maggots:

[sick tinsel]

slaves

and food

the hunter is right

[twin dragon]

[sick tinsel]

they killed hegemol they deserve it

[sinful nimbus]

who invited hornet to #sk-lore

[twin dragon]

are you completely sure they killed him?

[sinful nimbus]

anyway they weren't slaves please cease this slander

[twin dragon]

or did they js steal

[twin dragon]

Forced into menial labor

[sick tinsel]

maybe

[sinful nimbus]

its a major stretch to read this as slavery bruh

Just say Hallownest was racist that's actually true

[sick tinsel]

pale king propaganda

[twin dragon]

Not slavery but systematic pressure into one kind of job

[sinful nimbus]

Yea

[twin dragon]

we dont know how "forced" it was but still forced yk

wage slavery

[sick tinsel]

maybe

[sick tinsel]

where could he be then

all we know about him hes funny and skilled at combat

[twin dragon]

He took a bath with quirrel

[sinful nimbus]

Hegemol might've already been dead tbf

[sick tinsel]

theres no character that match with the desc except ogrim

and hes the white efender

unless he imagine stuff

[sinful nimbus]

Maggots have trouble distinguishing between death and sleep as seen in their dnd but the maggot does say he stole his shell so he's probably dead one way or another

[sick tinsel]

this may be stupid af but

[twin dragon]

no.

[sick tinsel]

i just sent that

if we got to compare hegemol with a character its prob elderbug

after all hegemol isnt immune to aging

[twin dragon]

how do you even know this

[sick tinsel]

im just saying

elder bug looks similiar to false knight armor

unlikly

[limpid summit]

“Generally looked down upon and forced to do menial labor”

This is systemic racism and it’s likely not something PK contributed to nor something he could have feasibly stopped (and there’s no reason why he might not have tried)

But it’s fun to play devils advocate

[stray grove]

This is nonsense why did we start saying ts

“Have trouble distinguishing between death and sleep” based entirely on the maggots’ DND who are clearly grieving? Yeah they made a whole ass shrine for their fallen brother in the expectation that he’d just get back up makes a lot more sense than them just being in denial sybau

Clearly it was a resurrection ritual of some kind

[sinful nimbus]

Oh so hegemol was weaker then a maggot. The Pale King thought a weak defenseless giant oaf would be suitable to defend his kingdom you said?

[sick tinsel]

rich bugs prob di it

[stray grove]

Hegemol may have actually been dead this has nothing to do with Maggots inherently being incapable of making that distinction

He may also have been asleep in which case big rock would kill him????

Fuck are these mental gymnastics

[unique tangle]

Does this Hornet was just straight tweaking in her underloft entry

[stray grove]

Yes

[sick tinsel]

"radiance please please bring back our brother plspls"

[sinful nimbus]

His bestie is swimming through hardened compact dung a rock isn't gonna kill him bruh

[stray grove]

😐

Literally not the point but go off I guess

[sinful nimbus]

You're right you could've picked a better napping spot than Hegemol the Mighty

[sick tinsel]

pale court mention ?

[stray grove]

We literally know nothing about the circumstances of his death

This is meaningless to speculate about

[unique tangle]

Hornet tryin to make up filler to pad out her journal

[stray grove]

Whether he was dead or dying or sleeping or infected and in a dream like stupor and the maggot found him dead or dying and finished him off or whatever the fuck who cares

[sick tinsel]

unlikely infected tbh

this might be a terrible theory but since maggots are known to have the ability to infest bodies, maybe they infested hegemol body

[lone folio]

Real world bug biology doesn't always reflect hollow knight biology

So this is a flimsy theory

[stray grove]

Maybe Hegemol was attacked by other infected and lay there slowly dying
Maybe he was exhausted and unable to fight back
Maybe he was already dead
Maybe he was actually sleeping and the maggot crushed his head without him being able to retaliate
We literally don’t know

[sick tinsel]

this is why i said its terrible

but if it was canon it would be terrifying

[lone folio]

And it doesn't matter

[stray grove]

No it doesn’t

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe he died of starvation or the void killed him

[sick tinsel]

maybe he died of age

he isnt immune

hes a mortal bug

[stray grove]

Nice false equivalence

[unique tangle]

I think he died to one of those explosion throwing guys from deep docks

Might be a terrible theory though

But it would be terrifying

[sick tinsel]

🤯

[near jasper]

Throws this at an unspecified debate like it’s a live hand grenade

[foggy fractal]

hey does anyone have that image where its every single enemy in silksong side by side in a very long image thanks

[frosty beacon]

but it was a dud

[swift needle]

We need hegemol armor dna tests

And forensics

About his location and time of death

If only I was smart enough 🥺

[near jasper]

Hegemol is safely retired in a good home

Like quirrel

:)

[foggy stratus]

"Local Great Knight of Hallownest, Hegemol, found dead and skinned behind a Denny's."

[swift needle]

Get Dexter on the case

[limpid summit]

Hegemol is like King from OPM

Ogrim is Saitama

He was the actual strong one but Hegemol got all the credit and so he got the “Mighty” title

[fickle lion]

I savequit in Shellwood before defeating Widow in my Steel Soul playthrough and when I started playing again I was strung up in Bellhart like all the other NPCs and had to break free Deepnest style

[near jasper]

Yeah that happens if you save and quit while benched in haunted bellhart sometimes

[foggy stratus]

Its a nice little detail imo.

[oak mesa]

Hornet is void

[foggy stratus]

No.

[stray grove]

Lirili larilarp

[limpid summit]

Son

[lyric rose]

If silk is threaded soul, how is Groal able to cast multiple vengeful spirits in a row while living in muckmaggot infested water?

[robust wagon]

He uses the magic from the snail shaman (why did u mention silk?)

[lyric rose]

Because silk is threaded soul

[robust wagon]

???

[lyric rose]

Right?

Isn’t that a thing?

[robust wagon]

How is that related

[lyric rose]

I thought that was

Well

[robust wagon]

It is

The maggots eat silk

[lyric rose]

Would the maggots start draining that soul

[robust wagon]

No they eat silk

[cedar owl]

and they poop song

[robust wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[neon hound]

https://tenor.com/view/60fps-knee-slapper-spongebob-milkcord-gif-27449345

[mighty current]

Y'all notice that groal looks like soul tyrant? Idk why

[supple ether]

Maybe because he is

[craggy smelt]

Groal's whole deal alludes to soul master a lot - stealing soul, killing snails, etc.

[dim glen]

I mean he has Vengeful Spirit since he presumably stole the power from the Snail Shaman he killed

Soul Master and Groal are both bloated from abusing soul power

I love Bilewater lore ngl

[dim glen]

I would assume the maggots can eat silk because it's a unique, more solid form of soul, or maybe Groal and the Stilkin have evolved specific shells to resist the maggots

[craggy smelt]

yeah, that makes sense - Silk is Soul spun into a physical thread, so there's still a material component to it

something to nom

[idle mesa]

though this makes me think

how does the knight js get the soul

they hit a totem

it kinda js

goes into them

[craggy smelt]

probably an attribute of the pale shell, allowing them to draw in and soak up Soul

[idle mesa]

mhm

[craggy smelt]

can't tell whether it's conscious or not

[candid linden]

was hornet born from an egg

[frank dove]

Wait I wonder if he ate the one from hk

Each snail in hk had their own individual spell

[dim glen]

iirc the one he ate was male and the one in HK is female

[frank dove]

Oh

[dim glen]

i might be misremembering tho

[frank dove]

Well nvm then xd

[dim glen]

she could have been, though some spider species can give live birth I believe

but eggs are the norm for HK bugs

[frank dove]

Does it specifically say weavers have trouble giving birth or just having children in general

[dire lynx]

the seeker was male

"Find the husk of my cousin, claimed by the scorned bugs of the swamps.
A careless fool to let himself be taken, and dead they might be, but some glimmer of his soul can still be sensed."

and so is the shaman in crossroads

Developer Note:
"At some point hints that he can not leave the mound. "Can not" could mean he stays out of duty, or literally can not leave"

[dim glen]

I don't remember tbh, though I'm not even sure if they have males since they're all referred to as daughters

maybe some form of asexual reprouction like that on lizard

[frank dove]

I think they are all female

[frank dove]

Bruh herrah literally has a child with pale king

[dim glen]

Hornet was specifically born to take down GMS after all

[frank dove]

How is hornet half wyrm then

[dim glen]

well yea but there may have been multiple generations of lesser weavers, like the Little Weaver enemies

[frank dove]

Herrah was full weaver

So hornet is half

"Full Chamber to the kingdom of the White Wyrm. Claim the Weaver, in half part. Last of their line. Sensed strong with Silk.

Resistance anticipated. Quell with rune cage."

[dim glen]

I mean like they're capable of reproducing on their own, but the deal with the Pale King was specifically intended to spawn a half Wyrm

for the purposes of taking out GMS eventually

and yea I think Herrah was one of the originals

[dire lynx]

that was never herrahs intention in having a child, and she explicitly stands against it in the red memory

[frank dove]

Then why is every weaver cage in the cradle say 4th or 8th part

[dim glen]

it wasn't her intention, but the other Weavers definitely wanted that

[dire lynx]

shes the one who had the kid...

of her own choice

[frank dove]

It was her choice not the other weavers

[dim glen]

the way I interpret it is as their leader, she took the responsibility for the plan, but then realized she wanted her kid to be an individual

the other Weavers in Red Memory seem very invested in Hornet being powerful enough

[frank dove]

I feel like this is a stretch though

[dim glen]

I'm not arguing that y'all are wrong btw, I'm giving my interpretation of these characters

[dim glen]

I don't think so, we know the Weavers had a plan for one of their kin to eventually return and bind GMS

cuz imo, "give me a child" is a weird bargain to make in exchange for becoming a Dreamer just on its own

she wanted that kid for a reason

[frank dove]

True true

[dire lynx]

they didnt

[dim glen]

I can easily imagine Herrah having a change of heart after Hornet was born and encouraging her to follow her own path

[dim glen]

I'm pretty sure the lore implies that

[dire lynx]

the harp that ballador holds with the lasts words of the weavers implies the opposite

[frank dove]

It seems herrah had a different plan for her though

Here is her dialogue in red memory

...Only if you resist them, you might see it, another hope... beyond...

Idk what she is referring to but looking at her dialogue in both games she seems set on letting hornet control her own life

[dim glen]

to be fair the Weavers were also individuals, some had different ideas

[frank dove]

Prolly talking about her turning into a full wyrm instead of weaver queen

[dim glen]

oh yeah I agree there, Herrah definitely wanted Hornet to be her own person

but that's also pretty normal motherhood stuff

[frank dove]

Wyrm binding will be in dlc

[dire lynx]

hunters crest was originally the pale kings symbol

[dim glen]

personally I find my interpretation more interesting but it's def not the only one

[dire lynx]

"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

[dim glen]

that's the bit I'm referring to yeah

[dire lynx]

they are banking on the idea that a weaver descendant will come back and save them, but as the dialogue itself says, its merely a prayer

[dim glen]

But the intent is there

[dire lynx]

the cindril weavers and those that stayed for the citadel had no communication or connection beyond being weavers

[frank dove]

I think they did have children for that purpose

[dim glen]

they saw the opportunity when PK came to them to ask for help with sealing the infection

[frank dove]

But the one that was strongest had a parent that wasn't supportive of the plan

[dim glen]

All I'm saying is I highly doubt Hornet was born just because Herrah wanted to be a mother

the Weavers are very capable of scheming long term

they did plenty of that all the way to the abyss

[dire lynx]

the cindril weavers had no intention of returning to pharloom, nor a reason to

[dim glen]

But sending an offspring to take out GMS was something they wanted

[dire lynx]

prove it

[dim glen]

also there's mentions in HK of some Weavers leaving Hallownest for their homeland

[dire lynx]

theres no evidence to support that claim

[dim glen]

I ain't pulling out sources lmao I'm just having fun speculating

[dire lynx]

herrahs group only ended up fleeing after running into an even more powerful god, and even then, it took the fall of hallownest for them to decide that was the best course of action

[frank dove]

I thought weavers in deepnest said they were returning

Ye that

[dire lynx]

that was never the original plan, though

[dim glen]

Hey dude, no offense, but I feel like you're being kinda aggressive about your take lmao, ultimately we're free to interpret the source material in different ways

[dire lynx]

so theres no point discussing because this is your baseless headcanon

peace

[sick tinsel]

whats the purpose of weavernests

i kinda curios

[dim glen]

It's not baseless, plenty of point in discussing ideas and I'm not arguing to try and convert you to my headcanons, it's simply an interpretation that is plausible from the info we have

feel free to disagree but there's no need for anger

anyways

[dire lynx]

"anger"

[dire lynx]

they were places the weavers hid while scheming on how to defeat grand mother silk

or in the case of the cindril weavers, how to bitch out

[dim glen]

you're coming off as very unnecessarily argumentative is all, but I'm gonna call it here

hope you have a good day

[sick tinsel]

lol

i thought they were more like workshops

[spiral minnow]

So I just realized this

oh wait is this a bad time

were you guys discussing something

[dire lynx]

well, part of that scheming involved building weapons to combat her

[dire lynx]

nah, go ahead

[spiral minnow]

ok so

in Hallownest there were a lot of deities around

Unn, Pale King, White Lady, Radiance, and maybe Lifeblood creature but they don't count since they're in the void.

but in Pharloom

there's GMS

and maybe Fayforn??? I don't know what they even are

anyways

[sick tinsel]

ye

[sick tinsel]

yeah

only gms

[spiral minnow]

how come no higher being came to take over in the absence of GMS?

like

were the Weavers just that powerful?

[sick tinsel]

well

[spiral minnow]

to the point they just shooed off every higher being that might've approached?

[sick tinsel]

mamoths were strong creatures right, and with that strength they could dominate thier territory

but humans came

[dire lynx]

godseeker calls hallownest the land of gods, hallownest is probably a very special exception in a world of kingdoms ruled by a single higher being

[spiral minnow]

ohhh that could be it

[sick tinsel]

i guess

[spiral minnow]

also I guess if there were some other higher being the Weavers might've tried what Herrah did with the Pale King just to get rid of GMS

[sick tinsel]

hallownest seems to be more peaceful than pharloom tho

even after getting infected

[dire lynx]

herrah didnt have hornet to kill gms

[spiral minnow]

actually I know higher beings just have a lot of unknown details about them taht we probably would never find out but

[spiral minnow]

I know but that was certainly what the other weavers were planning

[sick tinsel]

best mother in hk universe ngl

[spiral minnow]

so what I was saying was some other weaver might've tried having a child with a higher being if any were around

so I guess there just never was another higher being around Pharloom

really strange since in Hallownest (specifically in King's Pass) there's stuff Pale King wrote about welcoming other gods in

so it's not really impossible for higher beings to just wander into the territory of other gods

[stray grove]

That’s not literal but PK did get along with his god neighbors

[sick tinsel]

its hard for weavers to reproduce

[dire lynx]

until the shade lord rolls up ofc lol

[sick tinsel]

radiance :

[swift needle]

Good morning

[sick tinsel]

we cnt assume void is a "higher being" tho

[sick tinsel]

hi

[stray grove]

That didn’t have anything to do with him though

[sick tinsel]

fair

[spiral minnow]

I know but Herrah had Hornet, and all the other weavers were basically like "yessss this is it we're using her to take down our fake mom yeahhhh" so I think they would've at least tried

[dire lynx]

pale king didnt even know radiance existed until she threw a tantrum and started infecting regular people

[spiral minnow]

actually hold on

is there a difference between

pale beings

and just higher beings in general?

[swift needle]

It’s stated that that the pk stole her followers or smthing

[sick tinsel]

they tried before making a higher being btw

eva

[stray grove]

No it isn’t

[sick tinsel]

can eva be considered a higher being ?

[dire lynx]

the moths willingly turned their backs on radiance

moths are bums

[stray grove]

No Eva is not a HB

[swift needle]

I guess

[sick tinsel]

no they choose to follow the pale king and abandon her

[spiral minnow]

I know but what I'm saying is they might've had more success if they had a real higher being around

[stray grove]

Pale Beings are Soul-oriented Higher Beings

[spiral minnow]

ohhh that makes sense

[swift needle]

But the ok knew of the radiances existence before the infection right

Pk*

[stray grove]

Not necessarily no

[dire lynx]

there is a distinction, but we dont really know what it is

[dire lynx]

not as far as we know

[sick tinsel]

so something makes me confused is, hornet was able to defeat GMS by setting a trap and sending her to the void, why weavers didnt do that

[swift needle]

Pale beings are white higher beings I guess

[spiral minnow]

well Radiance didn't count soo

[dire lynx]

weavers were too full of themselves to collaborate with others

[swift needle]

They did

The snare setter was a prototype

[stray grove]

Hornet is very strong and the Weavers didn’t necessarily know that was an application of the Void
The trap itself (Snare Setter) is similar to what they used to seal her though

[sick tinsel]

do you think its probably because they needed silk ?

[swift needle]

They needed soul I think

[spiral minnow]

They might have? The diving bell does reach the abyss after all.

[stray grove]

Literally the same thing

[dire lynx]

hornet was only able to do what she did in snared silk with the assistance of the shamans, something weavers would never do

[sick tinsel]

oh thanks

guess weavers were bad at using soul

[stray grove]

The Weavers knew about the Void since Weavenest Absalom exists but that doesn’t mean they knew that they could use it to kill GMS

[spiral minnow]

well not exactly, silk is more... processed I guess?

Hornet wasn't able to absorb pure soul so

[stray grove]

She can

[sick tinsel]

weavers dosent seem to be able to manipulate void

[dire lynx]

silk is to soul as ice is to water

[sick tinsel]

and they prob didnt want to

[stray grove]

Hornet can absorb pure Soul it just gets converted to silk in her shell

[sick tinsel]

maybe they knew it can ruin pharloom ?

[spiral minnow]

actually now that I think about it

one of the snail shamans say something about being oppressed

[dire lynx]

lace didnt exist when the weavers were still scheming, so it would be a non issue

[swift needle]

They didn’t get the chance to try it out as the snare setter was only recently made maybe

[spiral minnow]

and one of them even reached out to the stilkin to take down the citadel

so the weavers probably just straight up were against snail shamans and void stuff overall

[dire lynx]

yes, the citadel (weavers, and later conductors) tried to shut down every other religion in pharloom

[sick tinsel]

fair point

what are the chances sea of sorrow will explain stuff for us

[spiral minnow]

I guess void is just void being/snail shaman territory

[swift needle]

Sea of sorrow prolly gives us more lore but doesn’t explain much

[dire lynx]

low, seems to be focused on lifeblood :/

[spiral minnow]

and the weavers just didn't have the right tech to utilize it safely

[spiral minnow]

at least that would be one less mystery that started from the original hollow knight

[swift needle]

I js want it to come out man

[sick tinsel]

owww :(

[swift needle]

I thought that maybe in the spring break it would come out

And I would have smthing to do

But no

[spiral minnow]

I guess it just needs more time in the oven

at the very least we probably would get it by the end of the year...

foreshadowing

and jinxing

but in all seriousness I'm just happy we don't have to wait 7 more years for more content lol

that would've been soul crushing

even if they just straight up made a new game

[dire lynx]

it is coming alot sooner than the big HK dlcs since it was cut just so they could get silksong out earlier

the lifeblood tower and pharloom bay are on development maps up until only a few months before release

[swift needle]

Guys I wanna look through the game files but every file is a bundle file can anyone tell me how to observe them

[sick tinsel]

zoteboat

[swift needle]

Zotefloat

[sick tinsel]

are these the same with pharloom weavers or nah

[dire lynx]

we dont know

they could be deepnest spiders that became honorary weavers, they could be baby weavers, or maybe something else entirely

[stray grove]

Well they’re not baby Weavers

Little Weavers don’t really make sense anymore because the HK Weaver lore got retconned but if you’re going to try and rationalize their existence they kind of have to be their own thing

[sick tinsel]

we could say baby weavers but idk

if herrah was able to give birth in hallownest

why her fellow weavers wouldent

[stray grove]

That’s the one thing they definitely aren’t

[sick tinsel]

they could be just elevated spiders just like gms did to pharlids

[stray grove]

Well you see there’s one problem with that

GMS isn’t in Hallownest

[sick tinsel]

we got pale king

hes also a pale being

[stray grove]

When PK’s beacon uplifts shit it doesn’t fundamentally alter their biological makeup
And the Spider Tribe are said to have not relied on the beacon anyway

What you’re suggesting just doesn’t make any sense

[sick tinsel]

we could assume weavers did deals with the pale king despite hating him

[stray grove]

They didn’t hate him and they did collaborate with him yes

[sick tinsel]

they did

they refused integrating into pale king kingdom and killed his workers

[stray grove]

It doesn’t logically follow that he would have turned random spiders into Weavers assuming he could even do that

[stray grove]

Uh, no?

[sick tinsel]

because hes a pale being

[sick tinsel]

silk

[stray grove]

The Failed Tramway wasn’t the Weavers lol

[sick tinsel]

gms used silk to do that

[sick tinsel]

fr ?

[stray grove]

It was random Dirtcarvers and shit

[stray grove]

I don’t know what you’re trying to say

There is no evidence that PK uplifted random Spiders in the same way GMS did with the Pharlids even assuming he could

You’d think something that significant would be mentioned literally anywhere but instead they say the complete opposite (that the spiders were already sapient prior to the beacon)

[sick tinsel]

i didnt say PK uplifted creatures, what am trying to say is
if these are baby weavers, then the pale king helped weavers forthem to breed
if no, these are elevated creatures by the weavers themselves

[stray grove]

Well no they’re not either of those things

[heavy gyro]

Theyre just weavers who are little

[stray grove]

PK had a child with Herrah he didn’t “help the Weavers breed” in a general sense and if the Weavers had the capability of turning other creatures into Weavers themselves then they wouldn’t have died out

[sick tinsel]

he changed in herrah body for that

[stray grove]

No????

Do you understand how children are made

[sick tinsel]

yes ?

bro did u even play the game

[stray grove]

???

PK did not “change” Herrah’s body

[trim flame]

Herrah was a common bug and she'd know her child would be an absolute pale badass if she had a child with PK

[sick tinsel]

do these look identical ?

[stray grove]

💀

She got redesigned because in HK she wasn’t a Weaver

[trim flame]

She just don't look like a normal weaver

[stray grove]

PK did not change her body lmao when would the change even have occurred

Red Memory is after Hornet’s birth

And HK… also takes place after Hornet’s birth

[sick tinsel]

someone missed the lore

[trim flame]

No

[stray grove]

So PK randomly changed her body at an unspecified point after Hornet was already born????

[sick tinsel]

she IS a weaver in the og game

[trim flame]

It takes place after years

[stray grove]

No she wasn’t what

[foggy stratus]

Time isnt real in HK don't speak of years.

[trim flame]

Bro she's literally the queen of weavers in deepnest

[foggy stratus]

No????

[trim flame]

In our sense it is kinda like years

[foggy stratus]

They're siblings you fucking weirdo!

[sick tinsel]

hornet is described as "child of wyrm and weaver" in the BASE game, the wyrm is pk ofc and the weaver is herrah

[stray grove]

She was the Queen of Deepnest, she ruled over the Spider Tribe, which included Weavers. It also included several other spiders which weren’t Weavers like the Devout, Midwife, and of course Herrah herself, who is actually described in-game as being a common beast. Which Weavers are not!

[dire lynx]

shes queen of deepnest, being a weaver was a silksong retcon]

[stray grove]

That’s not in the base game

Assuming by base game you mean the HK base game

[foggy stratus]

Where is that said?

[sick tinsel]

lemme find the dialogue

[trim flame]

Ye I meant spider not exactly a weaver, does this mean pharlids are also a type of spider

[stray grove]

Yes Pharlids are spiders

[blissful harbor]

youre not gonna find it in the first game
only time “child of wyrm and weaver” is used is when widow is talking to hornet

[trim flame]

Interesting

[stray grove]

Silk is a Weaver thing

It’s not a generic spider thing

They’re magic spiders

[trim flame]

And the weavers to hornet in red memory

"Prove yourself more weaver then wyrm"

[dire lynx]

other spiders have silk/thread, but only weavers can imbue/make it with soul

[stray grove]

That wasn’t what they were asking but they also deleted their question

[trim flame]

Wrong channel

That's why

Nvm

[stray grove]

It’s fine

[trim flame]

I thought this was hk lore

[stray grove]

HK lore can go here it doesn’t matter

[trim flame]

So nosk is also a spider

[unique tangle]

If you’re feeling ambitious you can discuss fnaf lore here too

[stray grove]

Nosk is a psychic shapeshifter

I wouldn’t call it a spider, even though it does seem to produce a silk like substance

[sick tinsel]

nvm mb i checked the dialogue

[trim flame]

He has black web and lotta legs

[sick tinsel]

its says the nest and the beast not the nest of weavers

[stray grove]

We don’t know what its real form is

Or if it even has one

The spider isn’t its true form though

[trim flame]

No, everyone knows that

[stray grove]

It just takes on that form because of the arena

[trim flame]

Ig

[stray grove]

In a more open arena it would have grown wings, and it does in Godhome

[trim flame]

He has wings in pantheon

[stray grove]

It’s the same Nosk

[dire lynx]

no, same one

[stray grove]

But it also doesn’t really matter if it’s the same individual or not

All Nosks behave like this

[trim flame]

It mimics hornet because the knight has developed love for his sister

[blissful harbor]

synyx

[stray grove]

It’s either that or it couldn’t read TK’s mind before and can now due to the boost from Godseeker focus

I lean towards the former tho

[trim flame]

What if it lwk turned into the pk lol

[dire lynx]

if we where thk it probably would lol

[stray grove]

I don’t think TK would have a very strong emotional response to PK

[unique tangle]

Yknow thinking about it nosks powers are kinda crazy

[stray grove]

So would kind of defeat the purpose

[sick tinsel]

skynx is basically unifected nosk

[unique tangle]

Mind reading and full shape shifting

It literally just is a magical creature

[stray grove]

Nosk is crazy yes

[trim flame]

If its a shapeshifter why does it's mimic'd shell remain

[stray grove]

Actual psychic shapeshifter

[stray grove]

It’s spooky

Seeing someone you know transform into a horrifying beast is part of the hunting strategy

It’s an ambush hunter

[unique tangle]

It’s shapeshifting ability is crazy yea like there’s a lot of fictional creatures in this game but none that are just straight magical like nosk

Like I get there’s explicit powers and magic in the universe but those have defined physiological and metaphysical connections or explanations

Nosk is just pure fantasy magic nonsense

[trim flame]

Deepnest be like

[sick tinsel]

closest thing to nosk is ant mimicking spider

[trim flame]

How many vault keepers

[unique tangle]

At least two I think

[lyric rose]

Shadow Creepers kind of defy physics

Despite never eating or drinking they can grow

And a lot

Shadow chargers are huge

[limpid summit]

You could probably make up some soul essence wavelength BS but I really prefer a soft fantasy aspect in this sense

Nosk is just that lit

[foggy stratus]

Filter feeders

[lyric rose]

What are they filtering?

There’s no water to filter feed from

[foggy stratus]

The air

Obviously.

[dire lynx]

consuming particulate void

[limpid summit]

Maybe it feeds on parts of fractured void mind

Somehow

[lyric rose]

They don’t drink or feed

[limpid summit]

In HK it was just that they weren’t observed which makes sense

Now they just don’t eat

[lyric rose]

In Silksong, it’s stated they don’t eat or drink whatsoever

[limpid summit]

Shadow Chargers have the highest damage modifier of any enemy, increasing the damage of unupgraded weapons by 250%.

Why??

[sinful nimbus]

since when did this game have damage modifiers man

[foggy fractal]

since it was released iirc?

[spark valve]

I mean they're.......... fine

especially given how utterly miserable some of the oils are

[sinful nimbus]

nothing wrong with them I just didn't know they existed

[solar gale]

There are damage modifers for

Every goddamn enemy bro

Hk had them for select things

Not everything that breathes

[foggy fractal]

hollow knight had them too?

[solar gale]

Hk's pale ores are far more missable than any oil

[foggy fractal]

I guess I'm a fake fan 😔

[limpid summit]

HK had the warrior dreams’ health scale with your nail

And

Uhhh

Lmao

[spark valve]

and hk having them based just on nail meant stupid shit like bosses dying faster to spells if you don't upgrade

which is funny

but dumb

especially since it's super easy to get shade soul and ddark + shaman stone

[limpid summit]

Killing No Eyes in two Abyss Shrieks with my old nail

[foggy fractal]

you get shaman stone from salubra right

[spark valve]

yes

[foggy fractal]

yeah thats very early

[solar gale]

Lmao no eyes only has 200 hp at old nail

[foggy fractal]

😭 200

[solar gale]

One shaman shriek does 120

Considering all 4 hits

[spark valve]

there are a few other things that do, all the grimmkin for some reason, pale lurker, a bunch of random bosses like I think dung defender and probably most significantly watcher knights though only at higher upgrades

[foggy fractal]

pale lurker??

[spark valve]

that one is especially funny since at nail 0 it would only take 5 shade souls with shaman stone which you can absolutely just walk into the fight with so upgrading your nail makes it way more annoying

[foggy fractal]

yeah for sure

[idle mesa]

im boutta shot a major airball

weavers had foresight

[sick tinsel]

hard boss

fym 250 hp early game

[idle mesa]

said false but never denied me

👀

called me a liar but not wrong

[near jasper]

If Weavers had foresight why didnt they just make another citadel for when this one failed

[sick tinsel]

where would they put it

🤔

[near jasper]

The other side

[sick tinsel]

smart idea

[lyric rose]

Put a citadel in the abyss, tell silk she’s got a new citadel worshipping her, snail shamans cover the rest

[near jasper]

Ask tk to tell her happy mothers day in the void

[sick tinsel]

why dont we shrink grandmother silk in size, but her inside a cocoon, and play with it

[lyric rose]

I believe that over time, Grand Mother Silk started to improve her parenting. At first she makes it all about herself by enslaving her weaver children to constant devotion. Then when they leave, she tries again with Phantom but it doesn’t work out well, so she discards Phantom (harsh move to be fair) and creates Lace, who she doesn’t seem to be forcing to devotion in the same way as the weavers.

Then in the abyss, the threat of losing Lace to the void is what truely activates maternal instincts in her, because despite having just been stabbed and disarmed by her own daughter, she gives her all to protect her.

When Hornet has knocked the void out of Lace, Silk gives her life to ensure her ascent with lace can succeed.

Not so much of a theory, moreso character analysis.

[stray grove]

Holy shit we got GMS apologists now

“Yeah she improved her parenting by not literally enslaving her offspring” 🥴

[lyric rose]

Not excusing her

Just analyzing potential shifts in her as a character.

She did deserve to get nommed by the void, that much is true.

[stray grove]

With Lace it’s still all about her, she doesn’t care about Lace as an individual she literally designed her to be a perpetual child with little to no agency she wants dolls that’s her whole character

Her maternal instincts are still ultimately self serving

She’s defined by having an obsession with motherhood

[lyric rose]

And I do not disagree with you there

[stray grove]

Your analysis is basically “well at least Lace isn’t a slave!” but she basically is, Lace has even less agency than the Weavers did

Like Lace is quite literally intended to be incapable of rebelling in the same way the Weavers did

GMS didn’t “improve” her parenting and she didn’t change in any meaningful way

She became more of a control freak if anything

[lyric rose]

Here is da flowchart
Complete non-understanding of motherhood -> Terrible Mother -> Terrible Mother who ultimately gives up her life so her abused child may have a better one

[stray grove]

I mean that’s not really why she does it

[lyric rose]

She does it so Hornet can escape the abyss with lace in hand

Once lost lace has been defeated

[stray grove]

It’s not that GMS suddenly had a change of heart in the Abyss realizing the error of her abusive ways

At that point GMS was aware of the fact that she was definitely going to die anyway and so helping Hornet escape with Lace was the only way one of them could survive

Which still feeds back into her twisted view of motherhood

It’s not that she acknowledges Lace “could live a better life” without her either never at any point is GMS implied to actually care about Lace’s personal wishes

She views Lace as one would view a precious doll and doesn’t want to see her get damaged

[cedar owl]

some spiders feed themselves to the females after intercourse so the child has better odds of survival

or was it mantises?

[twin dragon]

both

[cedar owl]

ah who cares

[twin dragon]

and they dont really feed themselves voluntarily

[cedar owl]

can you stop poking holes on my beautiful analogy

[twin dragon]

very beautiful indeed

[sinful nimbus]

Some do iirc

I believe it was a spider who willingly goes into the mouth of his mate because the chance of mating twice is very slim

[twin dragon]

Maybe though

some get snared and eaten on the spot

[twin dragon]

mantises on the other hand

[swift needle]

Does this mean I can't crack the mantis lords💔

[twin dragon]

Some spiders also let their brood eat the mother away

[twin dragon]

why would you even

[swift needle]

For the fun of the game

[finite wind]

yeah that's what the huntress is based on

which is funny because I've only heard that was a thing on spiders, so it's ironic it's not hornet and the weavers who do that stuff

[twin dragon]

its not like they're having many children yk

[dire lynx]

both mantises and spiders rarely eat the male in the wild, its a misconception mostly derived from unnatural captive settings

[swift needle]

I CAN CRACKKKKK

[tawdry flare]

[flint python]

uhhh......

[sinful nimbus]

can't even talk about biology no more

[twin dragon]

Crack bugs

[twin dragon]

fr?

I mean yeah i can see that being true

[oak mesa]

Can someone explain like, how hornet and the hollow knight are like siblings? I know that like Hera and pale king got together

But isn’t there like more to it

[foggy stratus]

The Vessels are all the Children of the Pale King and the White Lady. Hornet is the daughter of the Pale King and Herrah. Shes their half sister.

[oak mesa]

ohhhh so like, then that would mean that grandmother silk isn’t like a relative to her right?

[foggy stratus]

GMS technically is related to Hornet but not the Vessels.

[flint python]

They share the same father, but not the same mother.

By creating the weavers, yes, but it does confuse me on that front.

[oak mesa]

super confusing but I kinda understand. So that would make the phantom like a very distant relative to the knight?

[foggy stratus]

No.

[oak mesa]

Like supper distant

huh

I see

[foggy stratus]

Well, kinda i guess.

[low oracle]

What is the context, because what tf?

[foggy stratus]

Well no, TK isnt related to GMS in any way.

[oak mesa]

I never knew this game had lore all I knew was that like hornet was like kinda had relations to the pale king

[foggy stratus]

Its like all lore. Devs said so.

[stray grove]

Grand Mother Silk is (basically) Hornet’s grandma, Phantom is Silk’s daughter so could be thought of as Hornet’s aunt. That’s her mom’s side of the family
Hornet is The Knight’s half sister through the Pale King, which is to say her dad’s side of the family

[oak mesa]

It’s crazy how all this is like discovered trough very vague tablets

[random harbor]

Developer comment: Hollow Knight is all lore

According to Ari Gibson, only William thinks HK has no lore. HK is all lore.

[Source](#off-topic message)

@lexmolten used /dev-comments source: Discord name: Hollow Knight is all lore

[stray grove]

So there’s no relation between TK and Phantom

[oak mesa]

I see

Very interesting

I feel the need to replay hollow knight and write don every tablet and try to like figure this out myself

[foggy stratus]

Closest is an aunt in law.

[foggy stratus]

But even then not really.

[stray grove]

No closest would be step aunt

[foggy stratus]

Oh yeah that's better.

[flint python]

Jeez, this is a very confusing family tree of sorts.

[oak mesa]

I know.

[stray grove]

I think you’re overcomplicating it

[oak mesa]

Is it crazy to say that like the whole knight family tree is similar to a real family tree? Minus the whole worm knight(I think the pale knight)

[stray grove]

It’s literally just
PK + WL = Vessels
PK + Herrah = Hornet

[oak mesa]

I see

[stray grove]

All of the Vessels are biological siblings and Hornet is their biological half-sibling

[oak mesa]

Question uh what the HELL are the snail shamans?

[stray grove]

They’re just magic snails

A tribe of powerful soul users

[oak mesa]

Also is goral a snail shaman? Cuz he can use bengal spirit

[sick tinsel]

are they a tribe ?

[stray grove]

Species whatever

[oak mesa]

I feel stupid asking that

[sick tinsel]

no

he stole the spell

[stray grove]

Groal isn’t a snail shaman but he did steal that spell from a snail shaman

[sick tinsel]

from a snail shaman

[oak mesa]

ohhhh

[stray grove]

The snail shaman in question is the guy you get the seeker’s soul from

AKA The Seeker

[oak mesa]

also is there anymore like lore adding onto Grimm or is he just one of those characters that barley has any lore?

Like in Silksong

[stray grove]

He doesn’t have any additional lore in Silksong no

[oak mesa]

damn

[twin dragon]

Grimm is esentially a vessel for the nightmare heart

[flint python]

When the|| Grimm Troupe|| vists any kingdom, it tells them, infomation about it, it's currect state, what caused it's downfall, etc.

[foggy stratus]

A man can hope tho...

[twin dragon]

I dont think they do, do they?

[frank dove]

Not YET

[sinful nimbus]

karak nightmare essence

[flint python]

Then how did Grimm know Ghost (The Knight) was a vessel and know the Pale Wyrm as PK (Pale King)?

[frank dove]

You don't have to use spoiler text in this channel

[flint python]

I ain't sure if spoilers are allowed in this channel.

[frank dove]

If someone hasn't played the game they should be in #sk-help or something

Spoilers are fine

[flint python]

Fair enough, I'm just being careful.

[frank dove]

Yeah don't worry, I am just letting you know

[frank dove]

But likely because he had seen escaped vessels outside of hallownest

It specifically says he can't see everything below, that's how brumm planned to banish them

[flint python]

There's that too, but it's likely, since it helps them figure out if their summoner (who lit the torch) is willing to the ritual fully or if not.

[stray grove]

No that’s probably not why

Grimm has world sense

[near jasper]

The pale king/wyrm is well known in the universe id assume

[stray grove]

While it’s true his “scarlet eyes” don’t have unlimited range this sort of thing could still be easily determined by a deity with magical prescience

WL is also familiar with NMH

[flint python]

Clearly, Grimm has been to HN, at least one time before, the kingdom fell.

[stray grove]

Not necessarily

[near jasper]

The Troupe has for the bug we dream nail but not grimm necessarily

[stray grove]

Even if he was there for, say, the fall of AC, that wouldn’t explain his familiarity with the Vessels or WL’s familiarity with him nor would he have any reason to be there during the Kingdom’s golden age

We just have to accept that the gods in this universe have vague magical sensory abilities that enable them to Know Shit ™

[near jasper]

higher being telephone (thanks 4th architect)

[frank dove]

Oh so like gms kind of

He senses for a long distance but not too far

[stray grove]

Also that guy was just a scout, we don’t know when he got there and he died before even lighting the lantern

[frank dove]

But how would he know about vessels and pk when he's already dead

[near jasper]

Skill issue ngl

I feel like its not that hard to know

[frank dove]

Looks like a grimmkin nightmare...

They are the ones who actually know about nightmare heart

[stray grove]

There’s no explanation for his abilities. People have theorized that it could be related to nightmare essence, since memories are made of essence painful/traumatic memories such as those associated with the vessel project could manifest as nightmare essence which is what the Heart deals in

[stray grove]

It’s not

Grimmkin Nightmares aren’t even physical they’re just dream constructs made by the Heart

[frank dove]

Can you remind me how do we know that?

Is it in a journal entry?

[limpid summit]

I really like how TC thought we needed this

Like

Yeah it sure is

[stray grove]

It kind of is actually, the project was a very well kept secret and even the King’s own court (Ogrim) weren’t aware of the specifics. The exception is if you’re a literal deity of course

[near jasper]

It can't be that hard to make the connection between the suspiciously hollow knight shaped pale being in front of you to the vessels

[frank dove]

Wait what

[stray grove]

We literally see them give off and explode into essence particles, there’s also the weird mask room in the tent which seems to be how they manifest

[frank dove]

What is brumm

[near jasper]

Guy

[frank dove]

So they can put masks on bugs OR just bring masks to life???

Like atp just replace all real ones with fakes

Kind of like humans with ai it's much easier

[near jasper]

I mean its good to have a backup for not having enough bugs when your whole thing is dead kingdoms

[frank dove]

Then only use backup

[stray grove]

Nobody even knew what the Hollow Knight was, nobody had ever seen it aside from the statue
And that statue doesn’t really bear much resemblance to PK himself, who most people also never saw in person lmao
Vessels are said to just resemble common bugs (probably to a greater extent than they would resemble THK), and even PK is said to have taken the shape of one, and while people who have observed a large number of vessels like Hunter are able to tell there’s something “off” about them making that connection to PK (or even THK) would be a massive stretch
Ogrim, who saw THK in person, is able to correctly identify that TK is a Vessel, but from this it is clear he knew next to nothing about the project

The general public believed that their omnipotent god who they never saw summoned a mystical heavenly savior who they also never saw and magically waved away the infection that was plaguing them

Nobody questioned it beyond that and it would make no sense for anyone to assume a connection based on the literal two pieces of information they had access to

Grimm is able to conclude what TK’s nature is because he’s a literal deity with magical sensory powers

Not because he’s a great detective

[limpid summit]

Quirrel is a great detective

[unique tangle]

I mean it’s good to get people to remember that it exists

[gentle oar]

went to acmi and recorded the skong demo (full) but i forgot 1 secret room. is it worth sending in?

[graceful grail]

Corpse, not Husk.

[foggy stratus]

Husk and Corpse seem to be used as the same term in HK tbh.

If not then similar.

[pulsar flower]

hi

whats goin on here

[foggy fractal]

we will talk about silksong's lore probably

[near jasper]

[lyric rose]

or I could just

https://tenor.com/view/gwen-courtney-total-drama-gwourtney-gwen-x-courtney-gif-12342190487682122286

Spam this gif to enforce my shipping will on all

[foggy fractal]

MODS !!! WHERE ARE THE MOOOOOOOOOOODS

[lyric rose]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[lyric rose]

https://tenor.com/view/mods-discord-mod-moderator-moderation-clash-of-clans-gif-24080525

ur PFP looks like one of those fat fire monk dudes in Elden Ring btw

Just a passing resemblance

[river garnet]

[lyric rose]

helloooo

So you’re that (moderator) I’ve heard about

https://tenor.com/view/punk-megamind-animation-metro-man-megamind-nemesis-gif-17788637

[robust wagon]

What connection could they possibly have

[jagged sun]

Maybe it's because they both dance and it may have been a common series of notes to have started dances with in pre-Citadel Pharloom (it's definitely just a coincidence)

[remote flax]

Whats ifth thatth theth

[coarse token]

hi this is probably a stupid question but its regarding the fleas, considerably mooshka, kratt, varga, vog and the other one i lowkey forgot the name of im bad wit names, but they seem to be a mixed species? and they can talk. im not too sure if its been stated anywhere or if one of them has said it themself, but are the interactable fleas mixed with another bug that allows them to speak and have actual limbs/seemingly a shell? or are they just grown fleas and the fleas you find around pharloom like little fat drooling babies

[foggy stratus]

The Fleas need a certain process to grow into the intelligent fleas iirc. I think Mooshka says it in some of his dialogue.

[coarse token]

oooo i see i see ill trackback and harass mooshka to see if i can find that

[foggy stratus]

Or you can go to the wiki and look for it.

[coarse token]

yeees thats what im doing first

[covert night]

lore

[karmic crypt]

Guys

Which one do you think has the better quality of story writing? As in making you emotional?

Hollow knight or silksong?

[gentle aspen]

neither game makes me emotional

also not really a lore question

[limpid summit]

PV’s story makes me emotional when I think about it really hard

But the answer is HK

It has better storytelling and sticks to its themes more solidly

[cedar owl]

silksong does has a much more structured plot with a more concise throughline
I noticed most people generally understood the story and its themes after defeating the final boss in silksong, whereas in hollow knight a lot of people didnt even know what the Radiance was when they fought her

you can say silksong more successfully conveys its story to the audience

[limpid summit]

Hornet should have held a giant spoon instead of a needle

[cedar owl]

and personally I did get a little teary seeing silksong's ending but I also cry for anything

[limpid summit]

Nah actually that’s unfair

Seth did make me sad

But that was more because of the circumstances

[stray grove]

https://tenor.com/view/jjk-memes-jjk-ryu-jjk-larp-larping-gif-9136261405032725470

[stray grove]

Seth made me sad too because of how much TC butchered his lore

[glacial warren]

I think, between the two, Hollow Knight does surpass the sequel in terms of storywriting. Between all the tragic emphasis of the Knight’s existence and the visceral storytelling, slowly letting the player piece together the horrible truth behind the Hollow Knight’s own existence and realize what, precisely, went so horribly wrong and led to the loss of everything this kingdom was and held.

[stray grove]

There’s actually no in universe reason for Seth’s music to be sad

There is nothing sad about what little backstory he gets

[cedar owl]

by watching a mossbag video

[glacial warren]

Well there is a degree of tragedy to Seth because Hornet is looking at a mirror, in essence. She’s seeing Pharloom’s equivalent to herself.

[stray grove]

No not really

[glacial warren]

A lone warrior doomed with an unnatural lifespan, protecting a frozen tomb in a dead kingdom that was ravaged by a mad goddess.

[stray grove]

We don’t even know what Seth is doing there or how he got the job

And if that was the intent behind it the game could have done literally anything with it

Like Second Sentinel

[glacial warren]

He tells Hornet as much when approached: He is designated as the sole protector of Nyleth’s Shrine.

[stray grove]

What is he protecting her shrine from why does her shrine even need a protector what’s so sad about that

[glacial warren]

The way he makes that ‘krik’ noise and all the dust coming off him when Hornet approaches tells us he has not moved from that stump of vines in an agonizingly long time.

[stray grove]

Nyleth has no lore

For all we know Seth was killing people attempting to use the Shrine for its intended purpose lmao

Genuinely nothing to protect it from

[glacial warren]

Also it’s evident he was protecting the Shrine from the Choir, given their corpses litter the grounds of his arena, which are slowly being reclaimed by nature.

[stray grove]

The choir have no reason to attack it there’s nothing of value there

Also the Citadel built the shrine in the first instance

[glacial warren]

Not sure if his vigil began before or after the Haunting and Nyleth might have felt threatened.

[stray grove]

He’s not physically protecting Nyleth

[glacial warren]

Well true but the Shrine’s basically all that’s left of her by this point.

[stray grove]

He’s protecting this shrine for some arbitrary reason that isn’t explained

[glacial warren]

It is the most sacred location in the Shellwood, given Nyleth is the forest’s progenitor. She created everything there, it’s all an extension of her.

[stray grove]

Conjecture

We know NOTHING about Nyleth

[cedar owl]

I hate how the secret service just protects the president for some arbitrary reason that isn't explained

[glacial warren]

We know she is the ‘first seed’ and progenitor of the Shellwood. The totality of the forest is an extension of Nyleth herself.

[stray grove]

Well we know why the secret service protect the president lmao

Seth isn’t protecting Nyleth

He prevents people from using a shrine for its intended purpose

Nobody is there to attack the shrine

[glacial warren]

She was worshipped to some degree, and the Shrine is treated like a sacred tomb, her final place of remembrance.

[stray grove]

There’s no reason to attack it

[stray grove]

The citadel themselves likely built that shrine to offer their respects

Seth has literally no in universe reason to deny Hornet entry

Seth is just there protecting a random abandoned shrine under some weird elevator for no reason

[glacial warren]

Something between before the events of the game and now caused Nyleth to reach out and choose Seth as the Shrine’s defender. Unsure when exactly, but something turned the Choir hostile against it.

Might have been when the Haunting kicked in and the Grand Mother started becoming lucid.

[cedar owl]

considering that the first person who got past Seth immediately kills Nyleth, I think there might be a good reason for him to be there

[stray grove]

“Something happened at some point which led to Seth becoming the shrine’s protector” well of course

That literally tells us nothing

We don’t know what happened or why he was chosen or what his job is or why the shrine needs protecting

Or when

“something turned the choir hostile against it” again, why lol

This isn’t even stated

[limpid summit]

Weaver citadel

And then conductor citadel reneged

[stray grove]

Me when I make shit up

Dude WHY

You’re not answering the question

[glacial warren]

Actually come to think of it, the Citadel has had a very aggressive desire to extend its borders, trying to colonize all of Pharloom and assimilate it. They likely tried to do so with the Shrine so they’d have full control over the Shellwood and start branching the Citadel in that direction. Nyleth needed a roadblock between the Choir and her place of power.

[limpid summit]

Why what

[stray grove]

Why are Haunted Choir bugs attacking the Shrine assuming that’s even what’s happening here

They have no reason to do that, there’s nothing of value being protected

[limpid summit]

Who is to say those corpses are from the haunting era

[stray grove]

Exactly

[limpid summit]

What??

[stray grove]

We literally don’t know anything about the circumstances

[limpid summit]

Oh

Yeah

[glacial warren]

I think this might have happened back during Conductor or Weaver era, when the Citadel became corrupted and began its rampant desire to expand and colonize everything else in Pharloom, hellbent on assimilation.

[stray grove]

Why would they have built the shrine in the first instance

Why haven’t they colonized Shellwood proper

[glacial warren]

After all, look what fate befell Verdania when assimilation was refused.

[stray grove]

Why are they just fixated on this random shrine that THEY built

[limpid summit]

Assimilation was granted

[stray grove]

Verdania accepted assimilation

[limpid summit]

They just killed them

[stray grove]

They didn’t kill them

[limpid summit]

They killed Green Prince 2

[stray grove]

Verdania just naturally decayed as a downstream effect of that and the Citadel didn’t help

[stray grove]

He offered himself up as part of the deal but yes

They did

[cedar owl]

"begrudgingly" built

[glacial warren]

Likely because Nyleth is the main force of power in the Shellwood, the leader. If they destroyed the Shrine, then the rest of Shellwood will fall with it.

[stray grove]

WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT

[stray grove]

WHAT?????

[cedar owl]

snail shamans

[limpid summit]

Grudging accord

Snail shamans

Weavers probably didn’t love having to respect the power of another

[stray grove]

That doesn’t mean the shrine was built begrudgingly

[limpid summit]

But to maintain the pilgrimage through Shellwood it had to happen

[limpid summit]

Lmao

[stray grove]

Grudging accord refers to the pilgrimage

The shrine was likely built by pilgrims or smth

[limpid summit]

Larp sahur??

[stray grove]

To offer their respects

[cedar owl]

ok he's getting defensive now, this is going nowhere

[stray grove]

Lirili Larilarp

Defensive?

[limpid summit]

We'd heard the Citadel once made grudging accord with that creature, sent their servants in reverence, even built a shrine up there somewhere.

[stray grove]

This explanation literally makes no sense

[glacial warren]

So my guess is sometime through the Weaver or Conductor era, the Citadel saw the heart of Shellwood at their doorstep and wanted to assimilate it. Nyleth felt her place of power, her last foothold, being threatened. So, she selected Seth to become a guardian and protect the Shrine.

[stray grove]

Yeah dude their servants built the shrine

“In reverence”

[foggy fractal]

triple t... 😔

[stray grove]

The citadel as an organization had a grudging accord

[limpid summit]

Dawg can you read the sentence structure

The citadel made grudging accord
The citadel sent their servants
The citadel built the shrine

[stray grove]

They sent their servants in reverence and they built the shrine to offer their respects

[cedar owl]

man, the game's making it clear the citadel wasnt too fond of nyleth
thats reason enough to have someone defend her shrine

[stray grove]

That is the purpose of the shrine

[stray grove]

The shrine the citadel built

This doesn’t make sense

Why would the shrine the citadel built need protecting from the citadel

So what if it was destroyed

It’s not like it does anything important

Why would the citadel waste resources getting rid of it

It served no practical purpose

[limpid summit]

Seth probably just fought the Splinters or something

[stray grove]

So you admit the reasoning here is nonsense

[limpid summit]

What

[stray grove]

We don’t see splinter corpses around him

We see citadel bugs

[cedar owl]

nothing important, true
other than housing a powerful potential adversary
cant think of a reason why they'd change their minds on pay reverence to her

[limpid summit]

Yeah because he’s old and he’s not going to move the corpses

You think he only killed citadel bugs ever

[stray grove]

But the shrine is literally irrelevant

The citadel built the shrine themselves to offer respects to her, if they changed their mind and decided to stop doing that they’d just abandon the shrine

There was no reason to ransack it or for Nyleth to hire a dedicated protector

The shrine literally serves no purpose beyond allowing PILGRIMS to pay their respects

[limpid summit]

Different leadership and priorities
Under Weaver times, the pilgrimage was more important so it was better to have every step of the way secure
After the Cogwork Core, pilgrims were just a welcome addition that the Citadel didn’t need
Why not sever ties with a useless ally

[stray grove]

Exactly

[limpid summit]

Dude what are YOU saying

[stray grove]

Why would Nyleth have an obsession with protecting the shrine the citadel built

[limpid summit]

Well she’s sort of in there

[stray grove]

They could just bar pilgrims from entering

[cedar owl]

is that not where her memory is located

[stray grove]

If the tie was well and truly severed

[cedar owl]

what remains of her is there

[stray grove]

It doesn’t really make sense for her memory to be located in a citadel shrine specifically

[cedar owl]

omfg

[limpid summit]

She’s sleeping there in the shrine

[cedar owl]

nah, good bye

[stray grove]

You just have to admit the circumstances surrounding this as poorly explained

[cedar owl]

have a good one

[stray grove]

No she’s not dude

She’s not physically there

[foggy fractal]

still have no idea who the voice is 🤔

[stray grove]

The Voice doesn’t exist

[foggy fractal]

maybe in a dlc

trust the process.

[stray grove]

Seth’s old lore doesn’t work anymore

[limpid summit]

Oh yeah

I’m not defending Seth’s bad lore

[stray grove]

I have no idea what you or the other guy were trying to say

[foggy fractal]

TEAM CHERRY WILL MAKE IT WORK IN DLC.

TRUST.

[stray grove]

Seth has no reason to be there

The Citadel have no reason to attack the shrine they themselves built snd Nyleth has no reason to protect it

It’s not as though she was reliant on the Citadel’s goodwill to have a place to stay that’s stupid

It was just a symbolic gesture

A place for pilgrims to offer their respects

[stray grove]

You even acknowledged that this didn’t make sense and suggested he was killing splinters who also had no real reason to attack the shrine and aren’t mentioned or seen anywhere near it

Like was he there to protect the Pilgrims?????

[limpid summit]

I mean yeah probably

Maybe Nyleth appreciated the gesture and didn’t want it desecrated

[stray grove]

Then why is he killing people attempting to use the shrine for its intended purpose now

[limpid summit]

So she sent some bum

Because that’s obviously not what they’re doing

[stray grove]

Then why are they there

[limpid summit]

To dismantle the shrine

[stray grove]

Why does he attack Hornet specifically

From his pre battle dialogue he makes it clear he kills anyone who attempts to pass

[limpid summit]

He can sense her intent

[stray grove]

Bro

[foggy fractal]

Halt, stranger. I am charged forever to guard the sacred shrine beyond.
Any who wish to pass must cross their weapon with my own.

whos charging him

is he getting paid

🤔

[limpid summit]

The big Leth

[stray grove]

“Any who wish to pass”

[foggy fractal]

intresting...

[limpid summit]

Yeah I don’t think she has any active worshippers anymore bro

[stray grove]

Larp Sahur

[stray grove]

???

[foggy fractal]

there is no limit to the larp

[stray grove]

So Pilgrims aren’t allowed to use the Shrine for its intended purpose but she insists on maintaining it… why?

[limpid summit]

If you’re coming to some secluded shrine after everyone who has come had malicious intent

Brother

Things change

This isn’t something that happens in an hour

[stray grove]

Why is she protecting the shrine dude

By your own admission it no longer serves any purpose

Why does she care

[limpid summit]

Because it links to her memory I don’t know

[stray grove]

Thank you that’s all you had to say

“I don’t know”

[foggy fractal]

maybe Team Cherry knows

[stray grove]

I don’t think they know either

Old Heart lore stinks of rewrite and most of it is nonsense

Hornet when she kills Karmelita for literally no reason

[foggy fractal]

hence the maybe

[foggy fractal]

what was the line again? its a difficult thing to describe simply?

[stray grove]

It was a savage act, no doubt…

[foggy fractal]

ok now who has good lore

[stray grove]

Most of the stuff before act 3 is pretty good

[limpid summit]

But question

[solar gale]

Green prince

[foggy fractal]

I mean c'mon the way was open

[limpid summit]

If all the other hearts are accessed through them directly why is it unbelievable for Nyleth to be in the shrine

Or at least if she’s connected to all living things

Some concentration of her power

Why can’t we get to Karmelita’s memory through the statue

[stray grove]

She broke into bro’s dreams without his consent refused to leave when requested to and then fucking killed the poor dude

[foggy fractal]

sick heart that I have on my shelf now though!

[stray grove]

It’s not that it’s unbelievable

[limpid summit]

GP: “And a throne I could not sit alone”
Hornet:

https://tenor.com/view/does-it-really-matter-does-it-matter-does-it-matter-earth-does-it-really-matter-solar-system-does-it-really-matter-earth-zoomout-gif-7930525090867029432

[foggy fractal]

tuff!

[stray grove]

Why is he larping

She doesn’t even say that lil bro

[foggy fractal]

no limit to the larp

[stray grove]

She’s saying it’s not his fault she’s not saying it doesn’t matter anyway

[limpid summit]

She’s platituding

How would you feel if your lover died and someone came up to you and was like yeah that’s what happens in Birmingham it’s not your fault

[foggy fractal]

I'm gonna be wondering why I'm in Birmingham

[spark valve]

in this scenario birmingham came to you

[stray grove]

I would probably feel similar to how GP felt after being told that but you HK fans can’t read

[foggy fractal]

it is what it is I suppose

[limpid summit]

You HK fans can’t read

[stray grove]

Feel guilt at your absence, sir, but know the end was inexorable, the outcome set, whether you remained or not.
Do not seek to console me, warrior... This memory is mine alone... I'll not brook your brutish intrusion...
Hornet acknowledges his feelings but tells him that whether or not he remained wouldn’t have prevented Verdania from falling she’s not saying “chin up lad it didn’t matter anyway”

And GP calls her out on it regardless

But by all means continue to misrepresent dialogue

[limpid summit]

Blah blah blah