sk-lore

[edgy nebula]

oh yeah true actually

[floral quiver]

... okay so you're taking the worst interpretation of that.

[foggy fractal]

😔 all the same design smh the architects were so lazy

[dire lynx]

"brought-forced"

[edgy nebula]

i thought it was brought forced-safe

[foggy fractal]

wiki says brought-forced safe

[edgy nebula]

must be misremembering then

[marble oasis]

architect does a funny little thing where the first word is what she should say and the second thing is what she really means

Rare-extinct when talking about the Weavers

[floral quiver]

Why is it assumed the Weavers built the Architects and not the Citadel itself?

[keen narwhal]

topic?

[marble oasis]

Desire-demand when talking about Hornet's requests

[edgy nebula]

the humble hornet

[floral quiver]

Why?

[dire lynx]

"To build-automate is not choice. It is our nature-directive-c-c-c-cage."

[edgy nebula]

they did build the citadel and the architects

[marble oasis]

You are weave-type, yes? A first child? Rare-e-e-extinct. Or not it does so seem.

[edgy nebula]

damn

[floral quiver]

Nothing says that though!

At all!

[keen narwhal]

whats the topic?

[marble oasis]

on account of the citadel existing one may assume it was built

[marble oasis]

She's not first generation weaver anyway so it doesn't really matter

[floral quiver]

Okay. The Citadel wasnt always a big music engine.

It didnt start as one

[marble oasis]

That is Literally its only purpose

It just used to be manual rather than automatic

[edgy nebula]

citadel bell in weavenest atla, "...Dear... grim... Dark it seems now... et these word... become your guide...
Hear our voice... Let it... your own! Give... of yourself... for great Pharloom, for... first-children who bequeath it to us... for our salva... sure to come!" from pious isamor

[midnight reef]

what I find really funny
in Aris sketchbook, the Sentinels seem to stem from the original design for Nyleth's Gaurdian
Who got replaced by Seth at some point in development

[floral quiver]

Its purpose is to have people literally sing.

The automation happened later.

Because singing is inefficient

Thus the automation

[marble oasis]

Ahem

[edgy nebula]

here's also ballador's rune harp, ballador's dialogue, etc

[marble oasis]

This guy can't even finish a proper sentence why are we taking his word

[foggy fractal]

which sketchbook page did you get this from

[midnight reef]

I dont know, I just saw the sketch

[edgy nebula]

https://giphy.com/gifs/VCPLIYOGmywr8bS8Jd

[floral quiver]

Right. So. If the automation happened later why is it assumed that the driving force behind that automation must have been created by the people who didnt care if it was automated?

[marble oasis]

"Dear... grim..." grimm troupe confirmed?

[edgy nebula]

cant be, pious isamor isnt red enough

if a character is red thats how you KNOW theyre related to grimm

[floral quiver]

Why couldnt the Citadel have built the Architects in their quest to make the song automated?

The Citadel being the Conductors and their kin

[marble oasis]

Because we already established the first architect was in the Weaver era

[dire lynx]

"Long before the c-c-creation of the core"

[marble oasis]

And the song being automated is not the point of the Architects

They just maintain the citadel and build shit for fun

[midnight reef]

I like the theory that the First Architect was a Weaver

;3

[marble oasis]

This would be good if not for there being twelve architect corpses in the chapel

[floral quiver]

No we didnt! We established that the Architects existed before the core was built! Thats not the same thing!

[midnight reef]

well, not the one called the first architect

the first first one

the one who build the Architects

[marble oasis]

Zeroth architect

[edgy nebula]

the core was built under the rule of the conductors

[floral quiver]

Yes.

I'm saying everything automation was built during that time.

Including the Architects

By the Choir

[edgy nebula]

architects were made by the weavers explicitly

[midnight reef]

I dont think thats possible

[marble oasis]

The Conductor!Citadel did not need to force bugs into coming to the choir, the Pilgrim's Way was already set up by that point and in fact they had so many pilgrims, too many to the point where they needed to offload all new arrivals into the Underworks

[midnight reef]

it had to have been the Weavers who built them

[floral quiver]

It's. Not. Explicit

At all.

[edgy nebula]

Conductor!Citadel like it's an undertale au

[floral quiver]

Why?

[midnight reef]

The Choir has no ability to

[floral quiver]

How do you know?

The Choir now lacks the ability

[marble oasis]

Calling any use of ! to denote different versions of the same thing as being an undertale thing i know what you are man

[edgy nebula]

tbf they made the claw maidens and put silk runes on the choir clapper hammers didnt they?

[floral quiver]

But the Choir has been on the downward slope for generations

[floral quiver]

Yes!

[edgy nebula]

but also

architects probably made the clawmaidens

and the architects were of weaver make

so actually idk

[marble oasis]

Who said clawmaidens are conductor made

[edgy nebula]

read my messages above

[marble oasis]

which ones

[edgy nebula]

#sk-lore message

[marble oasis]

I mean conductor era made

[floral quiver]

Prove it! The dialogue you've been quoting doesnt say that. It says that they're old and the tech to make them is lost.

Which is reasonable for a civilization on decline!

[marble oasis]

Considering they require ridiculous amounts of Silk it makes it more likely they were a shoddy Weaver prototype before the discovery of Silkflies

[midnight reef]

All of their work seems to be limited to melting down metals mined elsewhere/recycling it like we see in the Underworks
All their magic (which seems to be integral to the Architects) is, at least as we see it, used mostly for attack and defense, and not for building

[edgy nebula]

theyre yeller

[midnight reef]

And it'd genuinely just be stupid to make the Citadel in an attempt to make it sustain itself to not give it a proper repair authority- the Architects

[marble oasis]

they're like the same colour as all the other cogwork bugs including the architects

[edgy nebula]

this is the stupid ball thing right

cogwork clapper

[fierce narwhal]

posting clawmaiden nudes on main dude

[edgy nebula]

oh

[foggy fractal]

where are the mods???

[marble oasis]

no its a dead clawmaiden

[midnight reef]

I think the Clawmaidens being made by the architects is fair

[floral quiver]

God damnit so the Citadel cant actually do anything. Tha automation was intended from the very beginning.

Why would the Weavers build the Architects?

[midnight reef]

The cogwork core wasnt, that seems to be an idea the conductors had

[edgy nebula]

oh damn they are the bronze, huh

[marble oasis]

to outsource the robot creating

[midnight reef]

But the bugs with the ability to do that? likely was something the Weavers wanted them to have

[edgy nebula]

to build the citadel for them

[marble oasis]

This argument can be made for the Conductors as well, why would they make a robot to make robots if they can just make robots

[edgy nebula]

also probably to make more efficient technology that wasnt silkpowered

[marble oasis]

Weavers already have a precedent for outsourcing their work, see the Choir

[floral quiver]

The Citadel was a stone building.

[edgy nebula]

yeah who says they didnt help make that

their names are architects

[marble oasis]

Yeah their names are architects not stonemasons #themsthefacts

[floral quiver]

Because why would you need a hyper intelligent robot who works to build other robots and tech to build a stone bullding?

[edgy nebula]

because you dont wanna do it yourself

[midnight reef]

because its not just stone..?

[fierce narwhal]

what if it was a really big stone building #tho

[midnight reef]

alot of the Citidel seems to be metal

[edgy nebula]

that's also true

[midnight reef]

Least, alot of it is guilded in Bronze

[marble oasis]

Now it is

[floral quiver]

The metal was added later.

[marble oasis]

It didn't used to be

[floral quiver]

By the Conductors

In their bid to automate

[edgy nebula]

architects are made of metal

[marble oasis]

Anyway the stone is likely Weaver made because Silk turns to stone

[floral quiver]

The original Citadel was stone

[edgy nebula]

it's very likely pre-conductor citadel was also atleast partially made of bronze

[marble oasis]

Either over time or when bound in a certain way

[floral quiver]

Prove it. We know the original Citadel was stone.

[edgy nebula]

we can see this from pious isamor's totally auraful oxidized copper physique

#sk-lore message

[marble oasis]

He is Green 🟢 for an amazing reason

[edgy nebula]

oops

here i didnt mean to send that other one

pious isamor's screws piss me off

he cant be screwed into the ground like that the screws are in a triangle formation

[marble oasis]

literally why would that stop anything

you screw in each screw instead of rotating the whole statue??

[floral quiver]

My issue is you're pulling the direct weaver connection from the eather based on selective reading.

[edgy nebula]

you cant screw in each screw cause theyre all level

if you screw in one the others wouldnt fit cause the statue would go down

[marble oasis]

thats not how screws work man

you screw him in same way you screw anything into a level surface

the statue is already flush and it's the screws that come down to secure it

[edgy nebula]

but you wouldnt be able to screw it in via turning isamor or the platform because the screws are in a triangle

[marble oasis]

What are you talking about

[edgy nebula]

i dont know anymore man

[marble oasis]

You take a screwless isamor and fit him onto the podium so that the screw holes are over the other screw holes

[floral quiver]

The Architects arent weavermake, they look nothing like weavertech.

They look like Citadel made technology.

So why the assumed weaver connection?

[marble oasis]

Then you put one screw in

Then you put the second screw in

Then you put the last screw in

[edgy nebula]

all 3 screws are on one platform and are presumably attached to isamor though

[marble oasis]

Clearly they're not because it wouldn't fucking work

[edgy nebula]

thats my fucking point

[idle mesa]

this is the pinnicle of sk-lore

[edgy nebula]

look at him

[idle mesa]

yes lets discuss the screws on isamor

[edgy nebula]

hes clearly welded to that shit

[marble oasis]

They're not attached man they're just in the holes

[marble oasis]

It's the same as lifting the hinge up and putting a screw in each hole without attaching it to the wood

[fierce narwhal]

this screw shit get serious

[edgy nebula]

hes an unattached statue and those are the ends of the screws

[idle mesa]

yk theres a big bird in mount fay we know nothing about

lets talk about that

[marble oasis]

This is like having to explain to jojo fans what a phone book is

[idle mesa]

instead of the SCREWS on isamor

[edgy nebula]

hes clearly supposed to be screwed in not the other way around

[idle mesa]

lmao

[marble oasis]

YOU might know nothing about it

I know about it

[idle mesa]

yes i dont

[edgy nebula]

how did dio hide in the coffin doe!?!?!?! 🤔

[idle mesa]

but its still more interesting than

[floral quiver]

It's stupid and I'm confounded that everything is assumed to be directly enacted by the Weavers, even the robots that were obviously built by the Citadel.

[idle mesa]

the screws!!!

[edgy nebula]

thats a joke there's a second compartment

[marble oasis]

lmao

[idle mesa]

wait wha

wharts the discussion

[edgy nebula]

gadget thinks architects were made by the citadel

conductors i mean

not the citadel

[floral quiver]

Yes

[idle mesa]

ah

uh

was it not the citadel

[edgy nebula]

it was the weavers not the conductors

[floral quiver]

Right?!

[idle mesa]

did they not build them for cogwork core and the

sleepy ocntraption

[edgy nebula]

no

[idle mesa]

also theres just no weaver tech in the architects

[idle mesa]

no its rhetorical yes they did

[floral quiver]

Theyre pulling lore out of selective reading.

[idle mesa]

the citadel made them for the core and the sleepy device

not to mention the architect made the sentinels and why would the weavers do that

[edgy nebula]

twelfth architect talks about a time before the cogwork core where they made the sentinels to bring pilgrims to the citadel

[edgy nebula]

to get more pilgrims in the citadel

[floral quiver]

And that has nothing implied to do with the Weavers

[idle mesa]

have you considered

[marble oasis]

they needed to fill up the choir as fast as possible

[idle mesa]

thats not their purpose

[marble oasis]

and once the choir is full you... don't need to do that

[idle mesa]

both of you

thats wrong

[floral quiver]

Thank you!

[idle mesa]

the sentinels were there to keep the safety of the citadel

[marble oasis]

Long before the c-c-creation of the core, the sentinels ventured, even beyond these walls, to see all bugs brought-forced safe to serve the Citadel.

[floral quiver]

Someone sane

[idle mesa]

shit

but still

its very clearly stated by the sentinel themselves

[floral quiver]

Doesnt imply weavers elther

[floral quiver]

Just an earlier time in the history of the Citadel

[idle mesa]

heheheheh

[marble oasis]

sentinel when asked about their job description

[idle mesa]

also this yeah

its never stated they were employed by the weavers

[marble oasis]

were the weavers just farting around for several years with an empty choir then or what

[edgy nebula]

clearly not weavers cant sing for shit

[idle mesa]

Defence of the sacred C-c-citadel, and the voices that fill it-t-t, is our eternal duty.

sounds very defensive to me

[marble oasis]

well they can play the harp pretty well, but it's important to note that they didn't want to do that shit

[marble oasis]

yeah that's their new duty

[edgy nebula]

i feel like twelfth architect's ndd: specifically "...Designs...Divine..." hints at them being of weaver-make

weavers did think they were divine

[idle mesa]

new duty?

[marble oasis]

after the choir was full and they didn't need to out and bring people in any more

[idle mesa]

they say ETERNAL???

[floral quiver]

Nothing implies that the First Architect was during the Weavers

[idle mesa]

like

the very get go

they sey ETERNAL duty

[edgy nebula]

they also say for pharloom eternal

nothing in hk is eternal

[marble oasis]

S-s-strange... 'For Pharloom eternal,' states the d-d-directive-cage. But how can eternity sustain without an Architect to serve? This seems e-e-error. An end? An error... welcome?

[idle mesa]

architect to serve

architect to serve

[floral quiver]

... its almost like they have a religious doctrine

Almost

[marble oasis]

Conveniently ignoring the implications I've brought up

[idle mesa]

are your implications not that they brought bugs to the citadel

i dont see why the citadel cant do that

[marble oasis]

they are

which you only need to do at the very start of the citadel's lifespan

[edgy nebula]

architect's directive is to make stuff at pharloom's first children's request

[marble oasis]

which... who was in charge then

[edgy nebula]

"Then on your r-r-request, Bug-Red, as directive demands, for Pharloom's first children, a-a-a-and our kingdom-eternal, I shall serve. I shall c-c-craft."

[floral quiver]

No?

[marble oasis]

oh yeah dat too

[idle mesa]

also every quote you said has been praising an architect or the kingdom

nothing about the weavers

[floral quiver]

Every Citadel bug has to follow the First Children. Its doctrine

[marble oasis]

Get people in as fast as possible so that you have a full choir
Set up the Pilgrim's Way so that people will come on their own to replace the ones who died, which doesn't need to be as fast
Immortality experiments, now the choir is always full, and anyone new who comes can be put to work

[idle mesa]

"an architect to serve" "our kingdom eternal"

no weaver talk

[edgy nebula]

the conductors are entirely full of themselves they dont give a shit about the weavers they wouldnt program them to follow them if they were already gone

[floral quiver]

Only if you assume that the Choir wouldn't also want that

[marble oasis]

Yes they would want a full choir

But the Pilgrim's Way was already set up by that point

So you don't need to kidnap people

[idle mesa]

YOU dont need to

i can do anything!

[floral quiver]

Of the three leaders of the Citadel we see two mention following the First Children as something so important they are required to do it.

[idle mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-dance-bounce-bouncing-jump-gif-27487642

[edgy nebula]

who's the second

[marble oasis]

vaultkeepers

[idle mesa]

second... sentinel

hehehe

[floral quiver]

Yes

[marble oasis]

Notable then that the only ones who don't defer to the Weavers are... the Conductors... who came into power after the Weavers left

[edgy nebula]

second sentinel... the character made by the architects?

[idle mesa]

wait im confused is this an admission

cz i forgot what side i was on

[marble oasis]

So if the Architects were made by the Conductors then why would they defer to Weavers

[edgy nebula]

youre on the side that the conductors made the architects

[marble oasis]

Why wouldn't she say fuck you spider I only answer to conductors

[floral quiver]

Prove it. Ballador doesnt know that Hornet is a Weaver.

[idle mesa]

@floral quiver what was our point again

[idle mesa]

what

[edgy nebula]

me and zorinus are on the side that the weavers made them

[idle mesa]

i

the conductors??

fuck no???

[marble oasis]

zorinus and i

[floral quiver]

The Citadel under the Conductors

[idle mesa]

ah

nvm then

if gadget says so

[edgy nebula]

essentially, the conductors

[idle mesa]

yes yes i forgot

that they ruled them

at some point

[marble oasis]

who in the citadel would have the mechanical skill to make an architect

weavers were great with robotics

[edgy nebula]

me

[idle mesa]

but theres no trace of weaver tech

weve seen weaver tech

[marble oasis]

You're a fucking skarr bro you're not on the team

[floral quiver]

Someone long dead with their talents and knowledge lost.

[idle mesa]

nothing in cogwork core sentinel or the architects resemble that

[fierce narwhal]

it could also be intentional that there is no trace, so that they're more welcoming to the common bug

[foggy fractal]

me

[fierce narwhal]

but that's just my guess dont @ me

[idle mesa]

the common bug knows SHIT about weavers

[marble oasis]

bells

[idle mesa]

mb

[marble oasis]

seals

runes

[idle mesa]

bells?

what

huh

[fierce narwhal]

theres a prototype bell shrine bell in atla

[idle mesa]

what when

[fierce narwhal]

in the snare setter room in the bg

[edgy nebula]

menacing background bell

to the left

[idle mesa]

also what does that prove

[edgy nebula]

tammo has come here to save us from this debate

[spark valve]

architect says their craft owes much to weaver work architect tech is derived from weaver tech

[edgy nebula]

that weavers can make technology not in the weavertech style

[marble oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/megumi-fushiguro-ten-shadows-cursed-tecnhique-innate-summon-gif-7314075061044604464

[foggy fractal]

With this treasure I summon...

[floral quiver]

So does everything in the Citadel! They copied a lot of stuff.

[fierce narwhal]

please keep this fraud out of this channel

[edgy nebula]

i dont watch jjk i dont get this reference

[idle mesa]

yeah but does that imply they were employed by them

[edgy nebula]

genuinely the only anime ive watched to completion is jojo

[idle mesa]

still

[marble oasis]

I think he's got a lot of potential, man

[spark valve]

I assume somebody's posted the stuff architect says about the first children this isn't really a debate

[marble oasis]

yea

[idle mesa]

what

which one

[edgy nebula]

just for clarification what is it

[floral quiver]

What it says about the first children isnt proof

[marble oasis]

but gadget argues that it's just doctrine to defer to the weavers at this point

[floral quiver]

It is.

[idle mesa]

which one what

[spark valve]

when they've been usurped totally ages ago and even the vaultkeepers despise them

nah

that's cope

[marble oasis]

Then on your r-r-request, Bug-Red, as directive demands, for Pharloom's first children, a-a-a-and our kingdom-eternal, I shall serve. I shall c-c-craft.

[marble oasis]

well they despise them but they still defer to them i guess

[spark valve]

yes because they were enslaved by them

[idle mesa]

does she not also talk about serving the architects

wait

fuck

wrong one

[floral quiver]

Thats literally why the vaultkeeper says he's doing anything for Hornet

[spark valve]

ok you aren't even reading messages, firmly in the not worth responding to category

[floral quiver]

Because he's required to

[marble oasis]

Only to a first child must a Vaultkeeper defer.
Not even the Conductors, though?

[idle mesa]

is it not implied theyre yk

secretive as shit

[edgy nebula]

conductors cant mash you into a silkfly tbf

actually they can

in that case weavers just have more aura

[fierce narwhal]

I think anyone who knows how to manage a silk siphon can

[idle mesa]

a silk song

[spark valve]

yes the whiteward stuff is just equipment not an innate skill

equipment probably left behind by the weavers

maybe even repurposed from whatever they used to bind widow

[floral quiver]

Ballador does not know that Hornet is a Weaver. He thinks she's a particularly determined pilgrim.

[fierce narwhal]

yeah theres a lot of weavenest assets that are just recolored bronze in there aswell

[marble oasis]

No, as in the Vaultkeepers don't even defer to the Conductors

Only Weavers

[marble oasis]

Also, he can't actually see her, to be fair

[floral quiver]

Yes.

[marble oasis]

If the Conductors introduced this doctrine why would they not include themselves in it

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if ballador has floaters in his eyes but theyre like silk strands

[floral quiver]

No, that weavers are highest up on the hierarchy. Note that the vaultkeeper is exceedingly arrogant and somewhat mad.

[marble oasis]

probably formed a net/web over his eyes

[idle mesa]

does any haunted bug have this

[edgy nebula]

considering silk is twisted around everywhere inside of every bug in pharloom it's likely most do

[marble oasis]

also maybe its not even a sickness thing maybe he just cant see out of that fucking hat

[edgy nebula]

i mean theyd probably have silk strands in their eyes

[floral quiver]

They probably did! We dont know but a precedent is set ny the other two castes having leaders who are required to.

[idle mesa]

lmao

[edgy nebula]

terribly designed headgear

the eyeholes are closed off who designed ts

[idle mesa]

i know i know

[edgy nebula]

same with the judges no wonder they keep dying

[foggy fractal]

blame it on the weavers

[marble oasis]

They veil themselves in service to their faith, or perhaps as slaves to something greater...

[idle mesa]

the conductors designed the conductors

because the condocturs designed the weavers

yes the conductors designed the weavers

[edgy nebula]

"yo sister lets prank these bugs by leaving the citadel and giving them these mantles with no eyeholes so they cant see"

"great idea lmao"

[foggy fractal]

great idea lmao

[marble oasis]

yeah bro that hat's fire bro now close off the eye holes
what if we made the whole thing gold bro
fuark bro that'd be sick as

[idle mesa]

hehe

[idle mesa]

yep

the condocturs made the weavers

this is the new hit theory

the condocturs made every single weaver ever

[edgy nebula]

but leave out these gray lines so our gold looks fake asl bro thatd be amazing

[idle mesa]

including hornet

[marble oasis]

Except first sinner, that was gms

[idle mesa]

no that was me

[fierce narwhal]

the conductors made gms

[idle mesa]

i made gms

[edgy nebula]

karak made the citadel

[foggy fractal]

then who made team cherry?

gms?

[fierce narwhal]

nyleth

[marble oasis]

i think that's just tarnish

[foggy fractal]

right right

[edgy nebula]

hornet

[marble oasis]

but that's funny because gold doesn't tarnish

[edgy nebula]

mfs mantles are made of plastic

[fierce narwhal]

maybe it's poop

[idle mesa]

have you considred the gold is the actual rust and their banger fit is the grey

[marble oasis]

Mrs. Pellen and Mrs. Gibson

[edgy nebula]

it's on every conductor mantle we see

[marble oasis]

rusty ahh citadel

[idle mesa]

yep

[marble oasis]

all two of them brother

[edgy nebula]

ballador's, mizello's, romino's.... (before romino got destroyed)

[idle mesa]

we see like 3

[marble oasis]

all two of them brother

[edgy nebula]

true

[idle mesa]

blasted steps one the close to dead one and the unraveeled

[marble oasis]

oh my god...

[edgy nebula]

blasted steps one was removed

[idle mesa]

lmao

[fierce narwhal]

there's no blasted steps conductor

[idle mesa]

it existed

[idle mesa]

yes but it existed

[marble oasis]

No it didn't

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-gif-6037055492951935036

[idle mesa]

there was no conductors hat in steps

[fierce narwhal]

this dude is talking crazy send them to whiteward NOW

[marble oasis]

There is no Conductor mask in the Blasted Steps

[idle mesa]

nononononoo!!!!

also its not a mask its obv a big ass hat

like sherma

WAITTT

SHERMA IS A CONDUCTOR

[edgy nebula]

i mean yeah he's the highest in command that's alive now as he was given the role of caretaker

[marble oasis]

also interesting this one actually has eye holes

[idle mesa]

no no no

[fierce narwhal]

he does kinda become one figuratively in act 3

[idle mesa]

he was a condutor at some point

he was a real breathing conductor of the citadel

[edgy nebula]

sherma was romino theory

[fierce narwhal]

he left because the hat was too big

[marble oasis]

shormino

[idle mesa]

THATS WHY HES THE ONLY PILGRIM EVER TO WEAR THE FUCKAHH HAT

[edgy nebula]

shromino

[idle mesa]

trobio

[fierce narwhal]

ermmm akshully its a shield pan thingie used by one specific deep docks enemy

[marble oasis]

cymbal

[fierce narwhal]

thank you

[idle mesa]

so hes BEEN TO DEEP DOCKS BEFORE????

[edgy nebula]

he wears a cymbal on his head but never uses it

[edgy nebula]

sherma's a greedy bitch

defacing citadel properly

behavior like that gets you put in the slab boy

[fierce narwhal]

dont call them bitches bro

[edgy nebula]

or that useless mini marrow jail

whichever fits

[marble oasis]

the sifters literally bang them into shit man

and coat them in nasty smokerock dust

[floral quiver]

Okay. My basic event timeline:

Weavers create the Citadel

Weavers leave, Choir takes over

Time passes

First Architect is created to enact a plan to automate the Song. First Sentinal is built at this time.

Generations pass, the Citadel turns over centuries from a stone monestary to a gilded engine. This process destroys the environment of Bilewater, greymoor, Sinner's road and other places. Cogwork Core, the exhaust engine, the Putrid ducts and the Underworks are being built throughout this time

the Choir digs into the power of Silk, discovering it has life extending and healing properties. They do morally reprehensible experiments, such that anyone who lives in Pharloom has Silk by a point.

The Haunting starts to occur thanks to the large amount of silk giving Silk a vector for control. The first and most affected being the Citadel thanks to its mass use of silk

Lace and Phantom are made

The Citadel, used by Silk, start hunting Weaverkin

The Citadel capture Hornet

Game start.

This is how I see the background using the lore snippets and dialogue.

Basically, all that the Citadel is now is because of a process started by the Citadel itself. All of its sins and glories are on its head.

The Weavers have very little to do with the Citadel's post creation history unless it's the Citadel copying and iterating on their technology, then losing it in their decline.

[marble oasis]

Once more, how did the Weavers fill the choir in this timeline and why do the Conductors suddenly need to kidnap people to fill the choir after the choir is already full

[floral quiver]

We don't know what "a full choir" means.

The Citadel's numbers, past or present aren't talked about.

We dont know if the Citadel wasnt constantly sending out the Sentinels until they were discarded/broken

[marble oasis]

A full choir means enough people to sing that the Weavers can turn their attention to other things in the Weavenests

[floral quiver]

... nothing said shows that the Weavers were worried about numbers.

The assumption that Weavers were worried about that stems from the belief that the Sentinal was created to bolster the Citadels first membership and notice that I don't believe that's a thing, so I dont consider it.

Because it's not a thing.

[spark valve]

that's not when the weavenests were a thing

[floral quiver]

I believe the Sentinal was created after the Weavers and was used to take people by the Citadel because they needed bodies to help build their engine

The Weavenests are rebellion era things

Boltholes and secret bunkers, away from Silk's active sight when she wasnt asleep.

[marble oasis]

when were the weavenests a thing then

[floral quiver]

During the rebellion.

[marble oasis]

They existed before and after

[spark valve]

they were in use before gms was put to sleep no reason to use them after

[fierce narwhal]

to think theres a world out there where they just shot gms with a bunch of silkshots

[marble oasis]

They were looking for ways to Kill her

[spark valve]

before they put her to sleep maybe

apparently none of those seemed very viable

[floral quiver]

The Weavers made a lot of plans during the rebellion

[fierce narwhal]

kinda reminds me of what the pale king was doing and his eventual flee into the dream realm

[floral quiver]

Intentionally so.

It's narrative resonance

Calling back to elements of the first game in new forms.

Unlike the King, the Weavers realized they couldnt just kill a God.

So they sealed her away and fled

[fierce narwhal]

they euthanized grandma 💔

i do wonder do you think the gilded limbs that gms has were somehow connected to that process? it always felt like they weren't there when she was in her prime imo

[marble oasis]

No she just has that shit on fr

[floral quiver]

Ooh, good question.

I dont know. That's a "could really be anything you want" question I think

[fierce narwhal]

yeah that's how i feel too

[shy sorrel]

Is the abyss from hk 1 the same as this one?

[floral quiver]

Yes

Why would it not be?

[marble oasis]

Well

Sort of

It’s the same like how the Atlantic Ocean is the same as the Pacific Ocean

[shy sorrel]

Wait fr?

[floral quiver]

Okay yeah not literally the same like it's some 4th dimension space thats the same everywhere

[marble oasis]

They’re joined yeah

[fierce narwhal]

its also by technicality different because theres the knight/shade lord in there just hanging

[marble oasis]

Have you finished the game?

[shy sorrel]

Not the first game

[floral quiver]

Also the Weavers did a Hardcore and built a secret bunker down there.

[marble oasis]

The creature that shows up in the Act 3 ending swam from Hallownest, presumably

[fierce narwhal]

ultimate fast travel

[marble oasis]

like it might have teleportation, yeah, but having to swim sort of explains why it didn’t come earlier

[fierce narwhal]

i do wonder if any weaver tried experimenting with essence

[floral quiver]

Well that and like, Hornet was fine up until that point.

Remember she stayed on her own initiative

[marble oasis]

Hornet was fine except for the part when the Void was wrecking everything

Like yeah I guess she was not literally about to die but she wasn’t doing swell

[floral quiver]

I dont think we've seen that. Soul seems to not habe been considered.

[marble oasis]

Soul is silk

Silk is soul rather

[marble oasis]

The silken memories seem to be a different expression of the same thing

[floral quiver]

Oh, I thought you meant earlier like Act 1-2.

[fierce narwhal]

true idk how much it would've been effective against silk herself 😭

[fierce narwhal]

that's what i always thought aswell, just through memories rather than dreams both kinda the same thing just through different lenses

[floral quiver]

Silk is a conductor and container for Soul, i think.

Not just spun soul

[blissful harbor]

i mean it’s different if your sister dies cause she fell into your goop
before she was just doing her own thing

[marble oasis]

Fine thread spun from the soul of its creator.

[floral quiver]

Ah, mea culpa.

[fierce narwhal]

i always thought of it as just a different state of soul like water and ice

[marble oasis]

It is infused with Soul, not just liquid Soul compressed into a solid thread

See: exhaust organ

[floral quiver]

?

So its soul infused with soul?

[marble oasis]

In the Exhaust Organ there exists Soulless silk

Faded

[floral quiver]

So it is a conductor and container of soul

[marble oasis]

You can't pump it out without it being souled is what I mean

And you can't resoul it once it has lost its soul

[floral quiver]

Aah, agreed

[blissful harbor]

it’s thread made from soul, that can lose it
like thread is soulless silk presumably, the shit we see in distant village and shit
silk is what happens when thread is made from soul

[floral quiver]

Truth!

[marble oasis]

Ahh ha! Truth, no doubt! In Pharloom, yours is a rare skill, prized beyond measure, to channel one's soul within a thread. Soul and Silk inseparably linked.

[fierce narwhal]

hmmm kinda like how all living beings have soul, which they can lose by yk, dying

[floral quiver]

Awesome.

[dusty wagon]

When does Michael Jordan fight Hornet

[weary sinew]

in space jam 3 or a future sequel

[sonic sleet]

This is a bit of fanservice but would Quirrel boss fight work lorewise in sense that we would fight him either to upgrade the wanderers crest or just overall godhome exclusive boss fight

[stiff snow]

yo can someone explain the red memory part for me?

[robust wagon]

Quirrel is dead.

[robust wagon]

What are you confused about?

[floral quiver]

It's a collection of memories involving Hornet's mother figures, of blood and otherwise.

It expands on Hornet's background and relationship to each of her Queenly mothers and how they affected her.

[silver prawn]

It wouldn't make sense canonically

[candid linden]

isnt he dead

[lone folio]

Yeah and it would be bad for the writing. His story is supposed to be over

[candid linden]

also cause hes dead

[silver prawn]

Exactly, and in under no circumstances can there be something that could revive him

[lone folio]

I mean there's a slim tiny miniscual chance that he's alive

[silver prawn]

This will be the last message regarding Quirrel in this channel, but Quirrel was already feeling his old age catching up to him

[onyx jolt]

hornet fought quirrel

in the prequel

so maybe some memory schenanigans could take place

[frank dove]

Yo guys just asking

Could someone with an unblur mod take photos of edge of coral tower (through the windows) unblurred?

I feel like the pattern on the rocks outside looks kind of unique

I feel like it's not what it looks like outside present day sands of karak

-# it would also be really cool prob

[whole holly]

in your opinion is silksong more lore dense than hollow knight?

[covert night]

for 10 seconds

memory fight would be cool tho

[sonic sleet]

People want quirrel to have his own dlc but I think he would work out way better as memory boss fight for hornet

[floral quiver]

Considerably less.

It's got more characters and a more substantial traditional narrative, but the nerdy kind of background "lore" is much less, both in prevalence and sheer amount available.

To set a comparison, Hollow Knight has 4 different types of "relics" that are there to give snippets of background lore. One of those types has 14 individual pieces.

Silksong has 3 types, and all those combined is 11 relics total

[pastel remnant]

Guys, check godhome DLC promotional art. Lorewise, knight has one arm, but in the DLC art knight has two arms. Which one is correct?

[floral quiver]

Compared to Silksong's 11 relics, Hollow Knight has a total of 39.

[marble oasis]

Lemm gives you fuck all though

[floral quiver]

Still more than Silksong just by sheer numbers.

[covert night]

sad that it's a lot less

[floral quiver]

Like, the relics in Silksong give barely anything concrete.

39 little snippets is substantially more to work with on the nerdy background lore front than 11 little snippets spread through 3 distinct factions with centuries of implied history.

Like, the Citadel has 3 snippets in total.

So do the weavers

The Pilgrims get 4

[marble oasis]

What Lemm tells us

• They wrote on stone, and then silk
• People would use their stone journal to whack beasts
• There’s 5 Great Knights
• The statue outside the city is of one
• The King was rarely seen by the populace
• The White Palace vanished without a trace
• There is an Ancient Civ
• The AC made the soul totems
• Arcane Eggs are a layered form of record keeping that may or may not have their own will

Most of that is nothing or attested by other sources already

[floral quiver]

And that's more concrete info than the entirety of Silksong when considering the relic lore snippets

[marble oasis]

You can’t be serious

[floral quiver]

Yes?

What's there not to get?

39 pieces of lore is more than 11 pieces of lore.

[marble oasis]

It’s not 39 pieces of lore though is it

Half of them are “wow you have a lot of wanderers journals”

[marble oasis]

We only get 9 actual pieces of lore

[whole holly]

that's also true, i have reason to believe that we may get more relics in Sea of Sorrows

[marble oasis]

these are the only statements where he says anything about the relics themselves

[floral quiver]

We probably will

[marble oasis]

otherwise it’s just oh thanks for the hallownest seal

or wow you have a lot of wanderers journals

[whole holly]

we don't know actual content of relics, only general information he knows about

[marble oasis]

Yes

Whereas every SS relic at least says something unique

[marble oasis]

There’s not even 39 pieces of dialogue, only 24

[whole holly]

Relics Seeker Scrounge is lot more talented, or Team Cherry actually wanted relics to have content so they had to cut back on Relics because they had to think of content for all of those

[marble oasis]

WJ caps at 8, HS at 7, KI at 5 and then there’s 4 AE

And there’s 15 SS relics

[whole holly]

what type of relic do you guys think we will get in Silksong? i think Rune Harp and maybe Abyss Egg(unlikely) or Weaver Effigy(unlikely)

[marble oasis]

I doubt scrounge is actually more talented, I think Hornet actually just expresses a desire to know what’s on them while Lemm is just rambling to TK about whatever he wants to say about it

[whole holly]

yeah i agree with that broadly

[marble oasis]

We might get two or three sea-exclusive relics

Like a ship log or something

[whole holly]

i hope so, i do think new type of relic would be great, kelp parchment? or some type of carving?

[marble oasis]

Some type of glass something or other

Since Zylotol uses plenty of glass and we might be seeing his master’s lab

[whole holly]

glass carving of some sort?

[marble oasis]

Perhaps

[whole holly]

that makes sense Absolom uses Glass too, for collecting void

[marble oasis]

I kind of hope we don’t get any more abyss stuff

[whole holly]

we have enough

i don't think Sea of Sorrows will be too Lifeblood-centric, it might show origins of lifeblood or small lifeblood lore but not only lifeblood, i think they were right about calling it nautical

i am excited to see some new kind of mollusc or crustacean, it is kind of guaranteed

[marble oasis]

I hope NO MORE MOLLUSCS

Snails have RUINED MOLLUSCS for me

I HATE MOLLUSCS

[whole holly]

what mollusc do we even see other than Snail Shamans

[marble oasis]

the lavalugs

[whole holly]

oh please calm down they are small group of gastropods

[floral quiver]

And only 11 of them are background lore relevant.

The effigies are prayers, not background lore relevant in the sense you can speculate on what they say about Pharlooms history. The cylinders are music except for one that has background significance.

The 11 have words that people can read and infer things.

And even then those are split between 3 factions.

We know three concrete things about the Citadel with the relics that concern it.

We know 3 things about the Weavers

We know 4 things about the Pilgrims.

Each of these have unique histories that are seperate but intertwined.

Meanwhile we know, as you say 9 things about Hallownest.

There's more in dialogue, but that's not what I'm discussing.

[whole holly]

i hope we do see Sylphean Slug, team cherry is hoping to expand on it

[marble oasis]

There is not more in dialogue

I took all of his dialogue

You never get to read the relics themselves

[floral quiver]

I meant dialouge from NPCs in Silksong.

[marble oasis]

I see

[marble oasis]

Fact: Salubra is one

[whole holly]

if we use same standard on hollow knight relics, lore-density is considerably less than silksong

[whole holly]

i think it would be funny

[marble oasis]

Sylphsong restores your Silk (Soul)… Salubra’s Blessing (where she sings to you) restores your Soul….

[floral quiver]

?

9 lore snippets on a specific place

Compared to 11, but seperated between 3 specific places with their own histories that intersect but aren't as directly connected as Hallownest.

[whole holly]

okay dude, to me it doesn't really matter

[marble oasis]

Four of those nine are about the Abyss?

[marble oasis]

I thought you were in on the agenda

[whole holly]

how many of these information are exclusive information anyways?

[floral quiver]

Like, the relic lore in Hollow Knight is about Hallownest, the singular homogeneous kingdom and its history and lore.

The relic lore in silksong needs to cover the Weavers, the Pilgrims, and the Citadel, 3 distinct perspectives

[whole holly]

i mean Salubra's Blessing is interesting Lorewise, she definitely is as weird as shamans, plus her collecting charms is weird too

[marble oasis]

The Weavers are the Citadel are the Pilgrims though
I could just as easily say Hallownest and the Ancient Civ are disparate kingdoms (which they are)

[floral quiver]

The Choral commandments are about the Citadel, the Rune Harps are about the Weavers, and the Bone Scrolls are about the Pilgrims. Distinct perspectives.

[whole holly]

i meant Hallownest Relics, what info do we infer that we otherwise wouldn't know?

[whole holly]

but why does that matter? they are all lore, i mean

[marble oasis]

I agree

[floral quiver]

No?

They're very distinct lorewise. They're interconnected, but you wouldn't learn anything about pilgrims from reading the Choral commandments like you would the Bone Scrolls. Nore would you learn anything about the Weavers.

You'd learn about Hallownest the country by listening to any relic loredump because the lore dumps are very focused on Hallownest.

[whole holly]

i could only find that AC made soul totems, his comments about the king? and that city switched from stone to parchment woven of spider's silk. which is not a lot

[marble oasis]

What do you learn about Hallownest from the Arcane Eggs

[whole holly]

you mean Lemm is focused on Hallownest because he isn't competent enough to actually tell us deciphered lore?

unlike Scrounge

[marble oasis]

Who can read more of the Arcane Egg?

• A seasoned historian, learned in ancient techniques and style of writing and eager to know as much as he can
• A hoarder

[whole holly]

everything lemm tells us is less concrete and specific, while Scrounge gives us basis to speculate

[floral quiver]

... no. I mean that Hollow Knight's lore is very focused around Hallownest specifically and giving it little details.

Silksong's lore is less focused on fleshing out it's three main points of focus.

Because there's literally less of it for each of the major points of focus, the Pilgrims, the Citadel and the Weavers

[whole holly]

DLC might change that in my opinion

[floral quiver]

Yes, but I'm discussing now not a nebulous future where anything is possible

[whole holly]

it allows us to identify eras, while Hallownest's Eras are more vague.

[whole holly]

i am aware, i just commented on it, since lot of cut content is coming back with DLC

[floral quiver]

No it doesnt. Or rather it only does because of how distinct the three groups are, so we can infer.

[marble oasis]

?

[whole holly]

elaborate on it

[marble oasis]

Also you say the three groups are so separate like that’s not an extremely important facet of the Citadel

To understand their different perspectives is to understand the gilded beast

[floral quiver]

The actual relics say very little.

Like if you take the Weaver harps, the three things that can be directly stated are:

The Weavers didnt like Eve, she was a failure.

The Weavers planned to run away

The Weavers gave over control to the Citadel and died.

Thats it.

[whole holly]

that so much more than King's Idols in comparison

[marble oasis]

pretty important stuff yeah

They tell us that Eva was an attempt at mimicking divinity

Tie it into HK weavers

And let us know that they freely gave control to the Conductors rather than got ousted

[silver prawn]

Agreed

I feel like the DLC will give us more questions than answers tho-

[foggy fractal]

for sure

[silver prawn]

Who's the bug in your pfp?

[marble oasis]

from a fangame

[foggy fractal]

that's me: Andy

hey guys
🗨️

[silver prawn]

He looks like a sumo wrestler

[marble oasis]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/HAfY_67XEAEjdS4.gif

wait is that design in maskbearer?

[floral quiver]

And that's all is my point.

That's all you know of the Weavers. That's not enough to build lore out of.

Like, my point is that there's more info on Hallownest as a place in its little lore dumps than there is about the Weavers, Citadel, and pilgrims in the relic lore specifically about each of them. We know more about how Hallownest worked than we do about how the Citadel worked from Relics alone.

We can infer things, but that uses stuff outside the relics written lore.

Hallownests relics are about what Hallownest was, its culture and institutions. Silksong's relics are about events that happened. There's a difference there.

Silksong has background history, Hollow Knight has background lore

[dire lynx]

barnacles are not molluscs

[foggy fractal]

most likely not

[candid linden]

when does nkg come to pharloom

[dire lynx]

never

[whole holly]

i guess they are crustaceans yea, but there might be molluscs along with them

[silver prawn]

Pharloom is not dead yet

[candid linden]

they only come to dead ones?

[silver prawn]

Dead kingdoms

[candid linden]

lets kill pharloom

[whole holly]

i forgot where that is specified can anyone give me source?

[candid linden]

so is pharloom free of the void after the act 3 ending

[whole holly]

i hope Cephalopods also show up, more than any other mollusc

[blissful harbor]

Through dream I travel, at lantern's call, To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall.

[dire lynx]

cephalopods are molluscs

[whole holly]

active process of kingdom's fall or only after kingdom has fallen?

[whole holly]

i am aware,lol

only mollusc group we see are sylphean slug, snail shamans and lavalug enemies, i really wish cephalopods made appearance opposed to other molluscs, what do you guys think?

we techically don't see Sylphean Slugs, unless you believe in Salubra theory

Salubra and Unn are interesting slugs for sure

what do you guys think

regardless Unn is lame ahh slug, compared to Salubra the Sylphean Slug

Nyleth is such improvement as "creator of greenery" trope, but that's just my opinion

[whole holly]

kind of reality too , Nyleth actively helped pilgrims and is more well-meaning

[marble oasis]

Not too much on big Unn bro

[whole holly]

@tranquil trail your thoughts?

[whole holly]

i don't hate her, i just don't think she is as thematically or personally interesting as nyleth, that's just my opinion

[dire lynx]

"what can i do to piss off vermi again"

[whole holly]

that's lot of reactions, more squids ? got it

[heavy solar]

She fits in more because she looks like a flower (I meant Nyleth)

[gentle aspen]

?

not really, no

[whole holly]

i do acknowledge that she is most peaceful god, nyleths design is better from integration standpoint

[whole holly]

it's an opinion, they do resemble pollenicas more than unn resembles mosskin

[heavy solar]

I meant Nyleth

[gentle aspen]

I know

that’s not really a good point

resembling your creations doesn’t entail being a better integrated design or fitting in better

[whole holly]

it is inherently subjective after all, there is no good point

[gentle aspen]

slugs are important to vegetation and upkeep irl

if your point is that “they don’t look like a plant so they don’t fit” that’s a faulty basis for an opinion

[whole holly]

so are hive and ants with that logical thought process

[marble oasis]

Nyleth looks like the shellwood plants because they are her own seeds

Unn dreamed up the Mosskin

[gentle aspen]

…yeah?

[marble oasis]

Entirely different

[frosty gate]

What is the topic?

[dire lynx]

there isnt one

[gentle aspen]

if you want you can ascribe it to how nyleth views nature (herself) vs how unn views nature (moss and such)

[marble oasis]

What?

[gentle aspen]

I wonder what the mosskin taste like

[whole holly]

Wandering Seed Species are better for "vegetation creator " because since it is more organic it resonates more with me

[plain ruin]

Moss, probably

[frosty gate]

Probably like Moss

[gentle aspen]

idk some nonsense about self vs outside

[whole holly]

there is no faulty basis in subjective opinion

[gentle aspen]

I mean sure, if you just want to look at visual designs and nothing mkre

[gentle aspen]

there definitely can be

[marble oasis]

It’s not different outlooks on life lol it’s that Nyleth can’t dream up new life because she’s not a higher being

[whole holly]

not in this case

[marble oasis]

So she has to just reproduce normally

It’s like Karm

[gentle aspen]

who?

lmao

karen

[marble oasis]

autocorrect

[gentle aspen]

yeah it is

[gentle aspen]

in universe yeah

[foggy fractal]

yeah you don't remember Karen?

[whole holly]

there is nothing objective faulty about subjective view that don't engage with objectiveness as form of reasoning

[gentle aspen]

word salad

[foggy fractal]

better than a nothing burger?

[whole holly]

agreed

[dire lynx]

same thing

[gentle aspen]

And no, subjective opinions can have objective faults lmao

[foggy fractal]

aw man

[whole holly]

it doesn't engage with objective faults, though

[gentle aspen]

keep telling yourself that

[whole holly]

i don't have to i already know

[gentle aspen]

yeah and what you know is simply untrue

[whole holly]

that's objective fault in your subjective opinion

[whole holly]

how so?

[gentle aspen]

????

genuinely what the fuck are you on about

[dire lynx]

there isnt a point arguing this when the only reason they are doing it is to try ragebait me

[gentle aspen]

it’s not a subjective opinion to say slugs are important to irl environments and vegetation

it’s literally a fact

[whole holly]

it is not as great to based Foliage Creator on Slug rather than actual plant which are more important to irl environments by any metric, but i decided to be humble and acknowledge that as subjective view

[gentle aspen]

ok

[marble oasis]

That’s the point man Unn exists outside her creation while Nyleth is a member of it

[gentle aspen]

one is a deity and one is a powerful bug who made a bunch of kids that look like them

[whole holly]

The 'objective fault' you're pointing out is a category error. You’re arguing from biological functionalism (slugs = soil health), although that is a valid ecological fact. I’m arguing from thematic isomorphism (plant-creator = plant-creation).

My point isn't that slugs don't help plants in the real world; it's that Nyleth’s design has a higher level of semiotic consistency. When the 'Creator of Greenery' is physically comprised of the same elements they create, the design loop is tighter and more intuitive from a world-building standpoint. Unn is a cool subversion of the trope, but Nyleth is a more refined execution of the trope's core essence. It’s a preference for aesthetic harmony over ecological irony."

[marble oasis]

The last half of that reads as ai

And that quotation mark is suspicious

[dire lynx]

Can also just flip the argument and say nyleth is uninspired and lazy for just being a plant

[foggy fractal]

🥀

[whole holly]

semiotic consistency is really important to me, i get that they have different points in existence but accusing person of word salad is just refusing to engage in logic and shifting burden on person to simplify, same with saying reads as ai

"ai, world salad and flipping the argument" are just a way to avoid engaging with the actual logic

i get that it can be difficult, but dishonestly for simplicity isn't way to go

[plain ruin]

What is the second half of this saying

[dire lynx]

engage with the logic of plant god is a plant is lazy, how about that

[foggy fractal]

don't disrespect GOATleth

🐺

[plain ruin]

“Shifting burden on person to simplify same with reads as ai”

[whole holly]

it is saying:semiotic consistency is really important to me, i get that they have different points in existence but accusing person of word salad is just refusing to engage in logic and shifting burden on person to simplify same with reads as ai

[plain ruin]

That isn’t an answer lol the second half of that is just incoherent, some missing word or something must be the cause for that

[whole holly]

engaging with "logic of plant god is a plant is lazy" is oxymoron because it doesn't have logic

[marble oasis]

i'm sorry man but it did read as ai even though i get what you're saying

[whole holly]

i edited it i guess: accusing person of word salad is just refusing to engage in logic and shifting burden on person to simplify, same with saying reads as ai

[frosty gate]

I still don't get what this fight is about

[dire lynx]

its uninspired, how is that not a logical critique

[edgy nebula]

topic?

[whole holly]

it's not really a fight... at least to me

[frosty gate]

Wish I knew

[dire lynx]

nika insulting unn to ragebait me... again

[plain ruin]

Ok that clears it up

[edgy nebula]

unn is a bit of a chud but using that info to ragebait isnt cool

[dire lynx]

shes a chud in a cute way tho

[edgy nebula]

true

[marble oasis]

Do you like unn or something?

[frosty gate]

What does Nyleth even have to do with the conversation

[dire lynx]

plants

[whole holly]

i don't try to ragebait anyone else, personally, i find accusation funny, that's like me taking criticisms of my favorite character as ragebait, which is lazy way to not have to actually engage with conversation

[dire lynx]

sure buddy, i join the convo and this is dropped near immediately

[foggy fractal]

why is unn a little bit of a chud

[edgy nebula]

does nothing of use in the first game, her mother never taught her not to spit

simply chud behavior

[marble oasis]

She's very large actually

[whole holly]

you were in convo long before that??

[dire lynx]

and then this

[foggy fractal]

that's on her mum

does nothing of use? creates greenpath? (peak area)?

hm?

[dire lynx]

nobody was talking about unn, greenpath, or nyleth until you randomly bring it up after i correct your mistaken taxonomy a few times

and its just to insult her

[edgy nebula]

chud area filled with chuds

[whole holly]

i am free to bring up topic??? you only corrected me once???

[frosty gate]

Why don't you

Just reply

[foggy fractal]

maybe YOU'RE THE CHUD!

🐺

[edgy nebula]

inconceivable!

[whole holly]

it validates them with response, they repeatedly kept saying that whole argument was their personal ragebait... i am trying to disengage

[dire lynx]

princess bride peak

[whole holly]

also let's move on to something else, i want to suggest discussion around fayforn if that's okay with everyone

[foggy fractal]

NO GET MIDFORN OUT OF HERE!!!

:C

[whole holly]

that's actually ragebait, jk

[dire lynx]

youre a weirdo and i remember why i blocked you

[frosty gate]

You do understand how incredibly pedantic and condescending that sounds, right?

You wanna disengage? Disengage

By not speaking about the topic and leaving the channel for a couple of minutes

[whole holly]

i want to but i never engaged directly with them, it's like their are trying to engage more

[frosty gate]

"Validates them with a response" L M A O

[whole holly]

conversation progressively turned into accusations and toxic trolling against, i am trying to change topic...

[near jasper]

Hi

[whole holly]

hey

[near jasper]

My discord was scrolling for 20 full seconds when I pressed the arrow what the hell happened here

[whole holly]

nuclear fallout, pretty much

[near jasper]

Oh cool

What was the topic

[whole holly]

it was Sea of Sorrows, inclusions of different species then Unn vs Nyleth preference

[unique tangle]

I like Unn cause she has lore

[whole holly]

that's great honestly, i would agree, so much of nyelth's lore was cut and rest of old hearts, but previous convo was about aesthetic or integration comparison

[marble oasis]

Hardly

[unique tangle]

Yea but 1 is still greater than 0

[marble oasis]

Nyleth has lore

[foggy fractal]

what about the bilewater goddess does she have lore

[whole holly]

huntress?

[marble oasis]

no lore

[unique tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/manual-trump-howto-gif-10474459

The Nyleth lore in question

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[unique tangle]

Nyleth is a bundle of incomplete ideas

There’s loose threads of something there

But I wouldn’t call it lore

[foggy fractal]

who is a bundle of complete ideas

[unique tangle]

Zote

57 complete ideas in fact

[whole holly]

we better get something in Godhome

[foggy fractal]

🤔

facsinating

[marble oasis]

What is a man? A miserable little bundle of ideas

But enough talk

Have at you

[foggy stratus]

I say a man is a fatherless biped

[marble oasis]

Fatherless?

[unique tangle]

That’s what Hornet is

[foggy stratus]

Featherless*

[unique tangle]

Hornet from silksong

[foggy stratus]

Fucking autocorrect.

[marble oasis]

She has a father even if she wishes she didn’t

[unique tangle]

It doesn’t seem like he was ever in her life tho

Plus

He’s dead now

[marble oasis]

She lived in the Palace

[unique tangle]

It’s a big palace

[marble oasis]

He was a big man

[foggy stratus]

All like 5'7" of him.

[marble oasis]

That’s massive for a bug

[unique tangle]

Big in spirit maybe

[marble oasis]

In… soul

[unique tangle]

You could say

[foggy stratus]

-# I meant Featherless biped btw

[unique tangle]

He had a king’s soul

[marble oasis]

Yeah… I like the sound of that…

[near jasper]

Had

[whole holly]

guys Hornet is motherless fatherless..., i guess white lady is also her mother

at least she isn't grandmotherless

[trim flame]

Why does the arcane egg say No will and shade if it was there before hallownest

[foggy stratus]

We only get parts of what's in the Egg and I dunno whoever had the egg before we find it was a weirdo. Ancient Civilization type shit.

Also Shade was likely a term before Hallownest came into being.

[trim flame]

Actually GMS isnt a grandmother her names supposed to be Grand | Mother silk lol

[whole holly]

actually GMS is hornet's grandmother

[trim flame]

wHAT AN irony

[foggy stratus]

Tf does this have to do with the Judges? Why is this in the Squirrm room?

[trim flame]

proof?

[foggy stratus]

If GMS was the mother of the Weavers it'd be true.

[whole holly]

hornet is half-weaver, GMS is mother of weavers

[trim flame]

GMS is the CREATOR of weavers, not their mother

[whole holly]

she is, even from genetic standpoint, her equivalent of genetics is silk, which weavers inherited along with her abilities and traits

[whole holly]

she can be both and she is

[trim flame]

She didn't produce them like pollen

Weavers used to be pharlids who got trasformed into weavers through silk

[whole holly]

?? pollen

[whole holly]

that doesn't change my point

[trim flame]

Ignore the pollen part I meant plants

[foggy stratus]

Silk is just a hyper condensed form of Soul. Not sure how it'd be genetic material.

[trim flame]

She aint their mother dawg

[whole holly]

but it's what GMS is made of

[trim flame]

If thats the case the surgeons in whiteward are all her children

[whole holly]

she is... though...

[trim flame]

and the light lumaflies

[foggy stratus]

If i shove my magical flesh into a chimp and it grows 2 feet taller and gets intelligence would I be its father?

[whole holly]

Ascension works differently than injecting youself with silk, Weavers did inherit traits of GMS

[trim flame]

Weavers would be higher beings

[whole holly]

well, real life biology and physics aren't good comparison, Pharlids were reborn as weavers inheriting abilities of GMS

[trim flame]

Only reason hornet is, is cuz shes half pale being

[whole holly]

not really... higher being is related to caste

[trim flame]

They werent reborn, THEY WERE TRANSFORMED

[whole holly]

only reason hornet is what?

[trim flame]

??????

[whole holly]

i meant that figuratively

[trim flame]

READ BRO

[whole holly]

your argument is flawed, they don't have to be higher beings to be childrens of one, that's now how it works

[trim flame]

I said gms is a higher being and her offsprings would be too

[whole holly]

and it is flawed and incorrect argument

[trim flame]

Man just

Go to youtube atp

[foggy stratus]

Being the child/creation of a Higher Being doesn't make you one. Vessels, Moths and Mosskin aren't Higher Beings.

[whole holly]

dude, vessels, hornet, weavers aren't higher beings...

she is literally called Grand Mother Silk, she was mother of weavers

[trim flame]

Vessels are idk, moths arent radiances creation atleast iirc, mosskins are creations not children

[trim flame]

Hornet is a half pale being bro

[whole holly]

Mosskin are referred to as green children, unn is called green mother

[foggy stratus]

Yes Moths are the creations of the Radiance and as i said "being the child/creation..."

[whole holly]

so, Palestag is pale, that doesn't make Palestag higher being...

[trim flame]

Where does it say radiacne is their creator

[trim flame]

ur pmo atp

[whole holly]

Seer says they were born from Light(radiance)

[random harbor]

Seer - Bringing Essence - Returning with 2400 Essence

So much Essence... So bright.... You truly are the Wielder my tribe so long has dreamed of.
The folk of my tribe were born from a light. Light similar to Essence, similar to that powerful blade, though much brighter still.
They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time.
But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king.
How fickle my ancestors must have been. They forsook the light that spawned them. Turned their backs to it... Forgot it even.
And so this kingdom was born from that betrayal. But the memories of that ancient light still lingered, hush whispers of faith... Until all of Hallownest began to dream of that forgotten light.
Ah, but what's done is done. And so am I. The Wielder has at last appeared and I've held the memories of my tribe for long enough. It is time for us to be forgotten too.
Don't remember us, Wielder. Don't honour us. We do not deserve it...
Aahh... I'm sorry...
Light... Radiance...
I... remember you.

@lexmolten used /npcs quest name: Seer category: Bringing Essence dialogue: Returning with 2400 Essence

[whole holly]

it's not my fault you don't know game lore... and Higher Being status can't be inherited

[trim flame]

U said gms is the mother of the weavers shes not

[whole holly]

she is, why do you think she is called Grand Mother Silk

[trim flame]

it could be considered mother as in like a title but not biologically

[trim flame]

^referring to this

[foggy stratus]

Adoption.

[whole holly]

her biology is literally her traits, silk and abilities weavers inherited

[trim flame]

"...She called us daughters... Called us divine... She lied..." First sinner's words

[whole holly]

that still makes her mothers of weavers

[whole holly]

First Sinner is just rebellious teenager

fact is Grand Mother Silk does consider herself a mother, regardless of what FS thinks

[foggy stratus]

That doesn't make her a mother.

[whole holly]

there are others things that does make her one, she adopted pharlids, transformed them into her children that inherited abilities, was mother figure even if she wasn't a good one

[whole holly]

guess what, conventional sense doesn't apply to silksong, and ai can be wrong

[trim flame]

ur only arguement is "inherited" her abilities that dont mean shit

[foggy stratus]

Ew, clanker slop.

[trim flame]

Ai is more smarter then you

[foggy stratus]

That was jsut rude man.

[whole holly]

it does, they inherited part of herself

[trim flame]

Don't use such a disgusting term

[whole holly]

ad hominem

[foggy stratus]

I have a freedom of speech and by the Void I'll use it.

[trim flame]

They didnt even inherit her abilities, they just had silk and gms's ability isnt silk she is silk

[whole holly]

they inherited part of what GMS is, that in fact does make them related

[trim flame]

If they inherited why cant they throw pinblades with telekenises?

[whole holly]

inheritance doesn't need to be absolute, sometimes traits of mother don't show up in children

[trim flame]

And her ACTUAL child was made of silk

[trim flame]

That's cuz shes not her mother and who are u to assume ur sense of biology works in silksong

[near jasper]

This is the most irrelevant Silksong enemy https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Cogwork_Clapper

[whole holly]

yeah because Lace is only derived from Grand Mother Silk's genetic material

[foggy stratus]

Lace and Phantom feel more like sentinent golems than children.

[trim flame]

Never heard of him

[floral quiver]

The Weavers not being her children is kinda an important part of their whole arc.

[trim flame]

Are u just gon watch

[whole holly]

nope and i am logical participator of this convo

[foggy stratus]

Mostly yeah.

[trim flame]

wish i had that self control

[floral quiver]

She called them her children, divine, she lied

[whole holly]

that's just perspective of First Sinner

[floral quiver]

...

No?

[whole holly]

i would argue, The Weavers being her children is kinda an important part of their whole arc.

[whole holly]

Yes?

[foggy stratus]

Perchance.

[near jasper]

I Will take a weaver's word on weavers instead of yours

[floral quiver]

Her lying about their divinity is the reason why they rebelled.

[trim flame]

You can beat 10 scholars with one fact, but not 1 fool with ten facts

[floral quiver]

Like, that's the reason

[whole holly]

you haven't provided any facts

[trim flame]

ur mush brain wouldnt consider them facts

[whole holly]

abused child can in fact not consider her biological mother a mother