sk-lore

[sonic sleet]

anyone else would prefer for skarr tribe to just be small tribe of hunters instead of being a huge power controlling both hunter's march and half of far fields

[marble oasis]

@lyric widget Submission for the SS lore archives https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Qdsj735NMQZYjo1em5IbYaVEnDl1LiI0Okeo-BfeIgo/

[lyric widget]

oooh ty, I'll add it

great topic

[dire lynx]

the "swirling, pale flame" dialogue is from groal not the shaman (who sadly has no needolin dialogue)

also worth adding that the palestag is stated to be "touched pale" which may suggest it was blessed by an actual pale being

[marble oasis]

Ah you are correct, I got mixed up because he is called "SWAMP_SHAMAN" in the files

[dire lynx]

fair

[dire lynx]

"Here, the trail of the stag touched pale... We hunted her, felled her, as none before were able...
Proof it became, of our majesty... mark of our divine right..."
-Green Prince

[marble oasis]

To be honest, I didn't think this was worth mentioning because it's unclear to me whether it's the trail or the stag that was touched pale

He's looking at a glowing footprint

Also, it doesn't really make much of a difference whether it was Pale to begin with or not, since we don't know who might have blessed it if so

Certainly not Silk

[dire lynx]

whats a monarchfly?

[marble oasis]

little dudes congregating around the Wings

[dire lynx]

ah

[brisk pollen]

guys can you guess from what location in hk is this audio

[carmine saddle]

That area before the top of Kingdoms edge

Before the colosseum of fools

[robust wagon]

The eternal ordeal

[whole holly]

what even are monarchflies, and what connection do they have with Pale King

[marble oasis]

running theory is vessel souls

[pine garden]

hmm y'all think that Radiance's infection was somewhat quarantined by Pale King's intelligence raising aura?

we know that the Hollownest bugs who step out of Hollownest, and thus Pale Kings aura lose their memories

I'd imagine that if infected bugs tried to leave Hollownest, after a while they'd lose their memories of the Radiance and thus the infection would break

[stray grove]

No

It Hallownest is a garage, PK’s beacon is the car parked in said garage. Radiance just parked her car in the same garage, the two effects are simultaneous

They don’t interact with one another

The only reason why the infection doesn’t spread outside of Hallownest is because Radiance was sealed in THK and her influence was limited

She doesn’t care whether or not you’re a sapient life form, even single celled organisms can be infected

[marble oasis]

I don’t believe the Infection would become global

[stray grove]

I don’t either

But WL seems to think it could spread further than it already has

We don’t know what Radiance’s max range is but she’s not exactly limited by physical distance so like

[heavy gyro]

Radiance also doesn't target Dirtmouth for some reason

[stray grove]

Sly and Bretta almost got infected

[pine garden]

oh yeah thats true, she can infect things without minds

[stray grove]

Zote and Elderbug are capable of resisting her

As are Corny and Iselda

There’s nobody else to “target”

[pine garden]

low priority I guess

other areas of Hallownest have a lot more bugs to infect

[stray grove]

Dirtmouth has a population of six and one third of said population almost got infected lol

Rad isn’t picking and choosing

She’s trying to infect everything with a mind some things just resist her

[heavy gyro]

Idk I would assume bretta would get infected again

[pine garden]

Grey Prince Zote would solo Radiance if she tried to get inside Bretta again

I assume Grey Prince would unironcially start beating Radiance ass if she tried to infect Bretta

since Grey Prince Zote does literally fight the Knight

I dont think the Knight is the type to just, hallucinate a dream fight that isn't "real" in the dream realm

[hidden crater]

god I wish zote was real

[pine garden]

real

[brittle geyser]

Lore is

[peak stratus]

cool

what if pale ore is the poop of pale beings and the eggshell is just their toilet paper

for the stuff ive seen in this game I cant call it far fetched okay

[viscid ridge]

I have the theory that pale ore is just hardened soul.

It would explain a lot of weird things related to it, like pure nails and potentially the steel children if they turn out to be made of pale steel

[peak stratus]

mines better it involves poop /j

[peak stratus]

the steel children? is that like smth thats teased from DLCs?

[viscid ridge]

The steel children like jinn and zi

[peak stratus]

I think I have not encountered them in my gameplay

[lean temple]

Steelhearts is likely what they're called

[peak stratus]

sounds like sweethearts

[viscid ridge]

I think you have, there just isn't a agreed apon name yet

[viscid ridge]

Its these 2

Steel hearts, children of steel

[whole holly]

i wanted to discuss something, Sharp Shadow is forbidden spell according to description, is it possible that Steel Hearts are behind it being forbidden? since they seem to regulate Void manipulation and usage

[whole holly]

where is this from?

[viscid ridge]

Its the pale steel outcrop above zi

[whole holly]

oh

[whole holly]

thanks Johnathan

[sinful nimbus]

Its possible but the more likely thing seems to be that it was forbidden by the AC themselves as a shade gate is set up to block access to Sharp Shadow

[whole holly]

that's also interesting

[stray fog]

Are these engravings on steel similar to pure nail and ancient masks?

(both are made of pale ore)

[viscid ridge]

Ive made that connection too, thats why i theorize that pale steel is another form of soul.

We get some text from the ancient nailsmith that indicate nails have some sort of sentience, aswell as the pure nail saying its true form is finally revealed.

This makes me think that the steelhearts are made of pale steel, which is probably how they are sentient.

And it would match up pretty well with zi's dialogue about compression, if we assume pale steel is just compressed soul, kinda like how diamonds are compressed coal fe

Aswell with how the hollow knight is able to create pure nails out of thin air when casting spells. I think its just converting soul into pale steel form.

[lean temple]

Interesting!

Waiting for Silksong: Steel Master to get our answers

I also thought maybe they're made of Pale Steel, but I think they were normal bugs before and then compression happened to turn them into Steelhearts. I believe the armor is like a cage/iron maiden that keeps them bound in service.

[viscid ridge]

My guess there is something about them that keeps them in service to the masters. We know the wing and kingsmoulds have runes to keep them loyal, so maybe the steelhearts have something similar

[lean temple]

The flying ones had runes coming off of them

Zi says "bound by ore" which is why I think the armor has some effect.

[viscid ridge]

Exactly, your theory of them being normal bugs before compression makes sense if we assume its the normal bugs souls that were used to create them.

[viscid ridge]

Interesting, im very excited to find out about it in the future

[little zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-writing-fire-his-writing-is-fire-is-this-fire-hold-up-gif-15400153686296022809

[edgy nebula]

the dlc should totally be called Silksong: Steel Your Heart

[brisk falcon]

is there a reason we take the 4th heart? kind of seems like were heartlessly killing one for the love of the game

[edgy nebula]

if we take hornet's reasoning for killing karmelita as a 4th heart and apply it to any other 4th heart, it's for a "test of strength soon to come" or something along those lines

[brisk falcon]

but hornet spares a lot of characters like pinstress and 2nd sentinel even after battle so it seems a little out of character

[sinful nimbus]

It is a difficult thing to explain simply...

[edgy nebula]

yeah, its weird and isnt really explained anywhere else

me personally i think shes lying out of her ass and is just secretly evil

[brisk falcon]

haha fair enough

[lean temple]

Khann is dead, Nyleth is functionally dead and Karms is on her deathbed. GP also attacks her first. As others said it seems it's a last test of strength before diving down.

[edgy nebula]

but it's definitely curious and i wouldnt be surprised if we get something about it in dlc

[edgy nebula]

well, it's possible khann isnt dead, though it doesnt have a huge amount of evidence

[lean temple]

Looks dead to me

[edgy nebula]

well, he doesnt crust up like dead karakas do until you get his heart

also itd be a bit weird if every other heart was technically alive and khann was dead

[lean temple]

If so then he'd be "functionally dead" like Nyleth

[edgy nebula]

yeah that works

[dire lynx]

hes probably in a state of stasis like a tardigrade away from water waiting for rehydration

[edgy nebula]

khann is secretly a triops

[dire lynx]

love those little guys

[edgy nebula]

im a little curious on what watcher at the edge was waiting for, the grey memento says he was waiting for life anew, but what does that mean? was someone gonna deliver water to karak?

[lean temple]

Yeah I think it means the region rehydrating somehow

[cedar skiff]

kinda reminiscent of the weaver spires and them waiting for pharlooms liberation

[little zodiac]

?

[robust wagon]

He's flattered

[muted lantern]

Are the pinstresses the same species as stillkin?

[sinful nimbus]

No they're craws

[muted lantern]

Thank you starpengu, very helpful

[sinful nimbus]

I'm being fr

-Pinstress makes bird sounds
-Pinstresses utilize craw balloons
-Pinstress looks like the craws more than the Stilkin
-Pinstress fights like the craws

If they aren't literally craws they are probably a related species

Which could also be related to Stilkin

[craggy smelt]

some horrific union of craw and stilkin

the stronghold in Crawlake probably belonged to the pinstresses, given the balloon technology

the craws just moved in and built their nests everywhere at some point

likely after the Citadel turned on the pinstresses and they went into hiding

[frigid belfry]

That makes sense

[craggy smelt]

hence craws getting all those 'scavenged pins'

which might also be why craws fight like Pinstresses, maybe they observed them and learned their techniques

[frigid belfry]

!wiki pond skipper

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Pond_Skipper

Hollow Knight Wiki

Pond Skipper

Pond Skippers are enemies in Hollow Knight: Silksong. They are dark-bodied bugs that skim across the surface of the water on all fours.

Health

15/Black-Threaded30

Drops

3-5
Shards dropped with Shard Pendant equipped 4-7

Damage Modifiers

1    0.8    0.8    0.8    0.8

Journal kills

15

[frigid belfry]

Based on their journal dialogue is it possible the SoS dlc will have hornet learn water skating as apart of her moveset.

Whether it be a crest or an entirely new ability

[craggy smelt]

hrmm...

that must just be a funny line - imagining Hornet trying to learn how to walk on water

[frigid belfry]

For silk storm, another enemy in Shellwood had hornet say she wishes she could learn a widely slashing area skill

Same for another silk skill

“Surely it is a skill that can be learned? When time permits, I should attempt the task.”

[craggy smelt]

water running would be a pretty niche thing, maybe for a few puzzles in barloom bay

[ornate pier]

No she mentions a tool

[muted lantern]

Looking again, their noses are too short to be stilkin. Still don't buy the craw thing either, though.

[ornate pier]

Wonder if anything lines up with that or nah

[craggy smelt]

the radial blade you can get built into her cloak

I forget the name

[ornate pier]

OH YEAH CIRCLE

T

[craggy smelt]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Sawtooth_Circlet

yeah

[muted lantern]

Its funny, the stilkin pinstress comparison only comes from one sprite from the regular stillkin, which is the most prolonged frame in their attack animations, where their nose looks way shorter.

then it normally is

[frigid belfry]

Thanks I was misremembering

[craggy smelt]

if SoS adds some kind of swim/dive mechanic, then man

they could add shit to any body of water in the game

[frigid belfry]

Could be how you traverse the bay

Imagine parkour includes water running and airborne swimming

I don’t think tc would add literally swimming in bodies of water

[craggy smelt]

they cut it from the first game

maybe this whole time, they've been waiting

"Finally..."

but imagine checking the water in Bilewater... ugh

[frigid belfry]

Probably some unique scenario where if you try it, maggots will drain you while you run

If tc does go down the whole lifeblood catastrophic in SoS I hope it isn’t an infection 2.0

[craggy smelt]

actually, if it's something that lets you stand and run on water passively, that might be worth using throughout bilewater

[frigid belfry]

The infection focused on the mental and biological impact, lifeblood should differentiate by being more environmental

[frigid belfry]

Nice try satan

[ocean crown]

Another addict to the blue

[craggy smelt]

hey everybody, do Plasmium

it's great

[formal imp]

seems like i was right with it being dream no more, lol

also funny how this was not the case

[formal imp]

although the void one works too

[half zenith]

Wouldn’t a bad end where Hornet succumbs during the fight with GMS and gets overtaken by lifeblood which then defeats and overtakes GMS be fun

The irony of Hornet succumbing to a mirror parallel of Hallownest’s infection would be delicious

[terse wadi]

DNM or ETV specifically for SOV

The others can connect to the other SS endings

Already had this conversation before going back to what I was doing

[formal imp]

yeah thats what i meant

but being act 3 and all its more of a true ending imo

act 2 being incomplete

just simply an earlier point in the same story

rather than an alternate ending

although i know the cutscene is technically an irreversable future

[terse wadi]

I don't see any reason to invalidate the other SS endings especially if the DLC adds one further along Act 3 or even an ACt 4 (though I think that last part would be the last dlc imo)

[edgy nebula]

could be where pinstress was originally located

she couldve overseen the protection of greymoor's farmlands

[formal imp]

its like saying that the end of lord of the rings 1 is a true ending when like

its not really

but sure if you only watch one film it can feel like its an ending

[terse wadi]

Bit of an apples to oranges comparison, what with LOTR always being planned to span several movies and SS while taking place in the HK Universe is largely standalone (for the most part) LOTR also doesn't have multiple timelines in which even if we disregard SS for a second all HK endings take place so yeah

Act 3 is in itself the action of taking an alternate ending in the first place so while it does progress the game I'd argue thematically that unless the DLC and future dlcs also take place in Act 3 it's just one more branch

[zinc spade]

I finally found out why harra the beast doesn’t look like a weaver, and it’s not because she is a different elevated spider. It’s because she has been “un masked” in a sense. If you think mod it it can make sense in skong because you get to see Widow who is also a weaver with a similar style of look as harra. Now there could be some things that may discourage this idea like harra’s build and widows build is different and harra the beast has a mask but the mask could have come from the mask maker and the build… idk 🤷

[coarse forge]

Question how did the twisted bud even get into bile water

[stray grove]

Widow looks nothing like Herrah. Widow’s “unmasking” also refers to her being mutilated as a form of punishment and there’s absolutely no reason why that would have been done to Herrah. Herrah was also redesigned in Silksong so that her build was more similar to a Weaver’s.

The real reason for the discrepancy is because Herrah was never intended to be a Weaver in Hollow Knight. While writing Silksong Team Cherry decided to retcon that, and redesigned her accordingly, but the head shape remained the same as it’s her most distinctive feature and one she shares with Hornet. I doubt they considered any potential lore implications beyond that and while it might be disappointing to hear there’s no narrative explanation for why Herrah looks different.

[zinc spade]

Just my desperate attempt at making the design of herrah sensible 😔

[stray grove]

I respect the attempt but unfortunately there’s no making sense of it

It’s a retcon, it’s not gonna be totally consistent

[edgy nebula]

if herrah IS confirmed to be pure weaver canonically she’d probably look like this or something

[stray grove]

She is confirmed to be a pure weaver canonically

[edgy nebula]

well then yeah she’d probably just look like that, assuming her mask got removed

[stray grove]

Why would her mask get removed

[edgy nebula]

her mask could just look like hornet’s head naturally aswell though

iunno

[stray grove]

I explained why she doesn’t look like that

There’s no lore reason for it

That Hornet is described as a Weaver in half-part means Herrah is a full-blooded Weaver

[edgy nebula]

okay

[ornate pier]

I assume it was related to becoming a dresmer

[stray grove]

Widow has her mask removed as a form of mutilation

[ornate pier]

Yes it is a retcon but I don't think you should shut down people from trying to make sense of it

[stray grove]

It’s a punishment

There’s no making sense of it, that there’s no canon explanation isn’t an excuse to just make shit up

[ornate pier]

Ig, it can also be used for something other than a punishment

[stray grove]

Baseless

Widow also looks nothing like Herrah

[ornate pier]

Not saying she does

But I do think hereahs mask was meant to be removed in the updated lore

[stray grove]

Why

[ornate pier]

It's what makes the most sense and it feels like it could fit with her becoming a dreamer

[stray grove]

How

[ornate pier]

For one, she now has a new mask

Perhaps related to that

[ornate pier]

All up in the air, dreamer lore is so insanely vague anyways

[stray grove]

You do realize the weaver “mask” that’s removed isn’t literally a mask

No it’s not

[ornate pier]

Why does the eternal sleep create seals

[stray grove]

Widow literally had her head split open

That’s what having her mask removed means

[ornate pier]

Some masks are natural some are artificial wtv

[stray grove]

Why would they mutilate Herrah

[ornate pier]

I'm not saying the weavers did it

[stray grove]

Weaver masks aren’t artificial

[ornate pier]

I know

[stray grove]

Why would anyone mutilate Herrah

[coarse forge]

Who will win 1 gms or 100 weavers

[stray grove]

Why would having a head prevent her from becoming a Dreamer

[ornate pier]

I'm saying it could be related to the process of becoming a dreamer which is an extremely vague topic already

[stray grove]

That’s an absurd claim

[ornate pier]

I assume it was related to putting the new mask on

[stray grove]

Lurien and Monomon didn’t have their heads removed

[stray grove]

But the dreamer mask just goes on top of her face

The weaver mask isn’t an actual mask

[ornate pier]

We don't actually know what they look like under the mask

We dunno their physiology

[stray grove]

This is a bizarre and ultimately baseless claim

[ornate pier]

It's called a mask

[stray grove]

Dreamer masks are magic masks there’s no reason why having your fucking head split open would be a requirement to become one

[ornate pier]

I wonder if to put on an artificial mask her natural mask would actually have to be removed?

Mask maker really makes me confused about what is and isn't a mask

[stray grove]

Her natural mask isn’t a mask it’s her head

It’s just called a mask

[edgy nebula]

weaver’s masks arent artificial, we see from first sinner’s cutscene

[stray grove]

Also her being mutilated like Widow wouldn’t actually explain why she looks different

Where the hell so the horns come from

[ornate pier]

Yes I know this

[stray grove]

At some point you’ve gotta stop making shit up and acknowledge maybe there isn’t an explanation

[ornate pier]

The horns are definitely the biggest oddity

[stray grove]

And there’s no reconciling that

It’s an inconsistency that exists as a result of her being retconned into a Weaver

[ornate pier]

But I would still say TC intended for her natural mask to be just removed in the new lore

[stray grove]

What?

[ornate pier]

But the horns are still an oddity as a consequence of that retcon

That cannot be reconciled

[stray grove]

Why would TC intend that

That’s completely baseless

[ornate pier]

Since they deliberately updated her design to better resemble other weavers to me her head staying the same perhaps the idea in their head was the mask was removed similarly to widow

[stray grove]

But why

As you already admitted her having her mask removed wouldn’t even explain why she looks different

Because the horns are the main distinction

But that aside having the mask removed is presented as an incredibly cruel form of torture

Widow was mutilated by having her head fucking split open

Why on earth would anyone do that to Herrah

[ornate pier]

No idea what the idea was in tc's head or if there was any at all but still my bets are on the process of becoming a dreamer

[stray grove]

You just made that up

[ornate pier]

I'm basically trying to hypothesize about what TC might be thinking

[stray grove]

There’s absolutely no reason why Herrah wouldn’t be able to become a dreamer without uh mutilating herself

[ornate pier]

And half of hypothesising is kinda educatedly making shit up

[stray grove]

Nothing suggests that was part of the process

There’s no mention of it, the other dreamers didn’t go through it

It doesn’t even explain the discrepancy

[ornate pier]

Again the idea for me is that dreamer lore is really vague and never elaborated upon

[stray grove]

That’s not an excuse to make shit up

[ornate pier]

We don't really know what their physiology is

[stray grove]

Doesn’t matter

[ornate pier]

Monomon is a weird jellyfish

Lurien is presumably just a tall bug

For all we know they could've have been beheaded but I doubt TC even thought about this

[stray grove]

“I don’t know maybe Herrah had her head split open”
“Why”
“To become a dreamer”
“Why”
“Idk”

This doesn’t explain anything and it’s completely baseless

Stop making shit up

[ornate pier]

Idea is perhaps to replace a natural mask with an artificial mask the natural mask but be gotten rid of

[stray grove]

No

You can wear a mask over your face without removing your face

[ornate pier]

Yeah again to explain this I just have to hypothesize and say that it could be some weird quirk of the dream ritual which isn't really anything and TC definitely didn't think of

So perhaps

Touche

[stray grove]

This isn’t a hypothesis

[ornate pier]

Still feel like people should be allowed to try to reconcile retcons in their head but ig that's headcanon territory

And might not be suited for here

[stray grove]

There is absolutely no reason why Herrah would need to be subjected to what is presented as an incredibly cruel form of torture in order to become a Dreamer
There’s absolutely no mention of that which would be bizarre considering the extent of the mutilation you’re claiming she endured
It doesn’t explain why she looks different still so it’s useless as an explanation for the inconsistency in her design

There is no merit to your “hypothesis”

[muted lantern]

Are we debating whether herrah had her mask ripped off to look how she does?

I feel like theres better explanations

[ornate pier]

Pretty much yeah

[stray grove]

There’s no explanation

We can sit here and make shit up all day

But narratively there’s nothing and TC probably didn’t think about it

[muted lantern]

I prefer to try to find one rather than just say its not worth looking into because it's a retcon. One can make a retcon and make a retroactive explanation for the inconsistencies caused at the same time.

[stray grove]

In this case there is no retroactive explanation

[muted lantern]

But i understand theres no solid explanation

[stray grove]

They already redesigned her to look more like a Weaver

The reason the head stayed the same is because it’s her most distinctive feature and matches Hornet’s

That’s it

[frigid belfry]

We weren’t even sure herrah was a weaver in hk

[stray grove]

We were pretty sure she wasn’t one

[frigid belfry]

Yeah there were hints with hornet using silk/thread and all but it was still heavily/debateable

[stray grove]

They occupied a different part of Deepnest, their anatomy was completely different to hers, and she is described as a “common beast”

[frigid belfry]

Tc likely just didn’t plan for it in hk

[ornate pier]

Almost surely not

[stray grove]

She’s still a spider

[ornate pier]

Or either it was not decided

[stray grove]

That her silk was infused with magic soul could be attributed to her father being a literal god of soul

[ornate pier]

In any case I do not think she was a Weaver to TC during HK

[frigid belfry]

I don’t know of any other spider species introduced in hk that could attack and dextrously use silk other than weavers

[stray grove]

Weavers weren’t even established to be able to do that shit in HK

[ornate pier]

Weaversong

[stray grove]

They were credited with weaving spells and seals

[frigid belfry]

They could write with silk

[ornate pier]

They kinda were tbh

[frigid belfry]

• their own charms and seals

[ornate pier]

Weaversong established silk can create life and shit

[stray grove]

That’s what I just said yes

[ornate pier]

And runes were there

[stray grove]

Weaversong is a spell

[ornate pier]

We're talking about like attacks then?

The connection with silk is still there

[stray grove]

That doesn’t imply they “can attack and dexterously use silk”

[ornate pier]

Eitherway it was probably fuzzy and undecided to tc

[stray grove]

All spiders produce silk

Herrah was a spider

[frigid belfry]

Dextrously is what I’ll focus on

[stray grove]

She was clearly not a weaver

[frigid belfry]

No other species in hk did that other than simple usage

[stray grove]

That’s completely besides the point

[frigid belfry]

Not really

[ornate pier]

Was the first mention of silk being soul in wanderers journal? I know almost nothing about what's in that book

[stray grove]

Even if Weavers were absolutely cracked at the use of silk they still could have taught Hornet

She didn’t have to be one by blood

[frigid belfry]

Not really

[ornate pier]

True

[stray grove]

Her having silk was thanks to her being a spider

[stray grove]

Why not

[frigid belfry]

Weavers are the only species we know of that can produce silk

[quick geyser]

What crackpot theory are you cooking here

[stray grove]

The reason her silk was magic was more likely due to her father being a literal deity than Herrah being a weaver

[frigid belfry]

Usage of silk vs common spider thread is much much different

[frigid belfry]

Makes zero sense

[stray grove]

Ok. But a demigod who produces silk could still learn how to use silk from them

[ornate pier]

Isn't this kinda making shit up too

[stray grove]

No

[ornate pier]

Feels like the same stuff I was doing

[frigid belfry]

You can have all the soul in the world but without having the gms-given ability to produce silk this is headcannon

[stray grove]

Hornet was established to have inherited her father’s strength in HK

Uhm

[frigid belfry]

Hornet inherented shell hb stuff as well as greater strength, longevity, and likely soul manipulation from her father but if she was not part weaver she could never use silk

Never

[quick geyser]

Didn’t know this had to be said lmao

What are we even talking about

What the topic here

[frigid belfry]

According to king hornet can somehow produce silk because she’s a demigod even if she wasn’t weaver

[wise sand]

50% of hk theories

[stray grove]

She says to TK that their strength is born of similar source (PK)
PK’s strength is the manipulation of soul, it’s why TK and PV can focus
Team Cherry themselves described focus as being similar to Hornet’s abilities
The logical conclusion was that Hornet’s life force being infused with her thread was a result of her pale heritage, she produced silk because her mother was a spider
In HK it was not even established that weavers produced soul infused silk, GMS did not exist
That Herrah was a weaver was a far, far less likely explanation given her completely different anatomy, them having a different territory within Deepnest, and her being described as a common beast. Let’s not misrepresent the facts

[frigid belfry]

Which makes no sense

[ornate pier]

Started with whether or not there is a way to reconcile the herrah being a weaver retcon with an explanation

[wise sand]

"Prove you're more weaver than wyrm"

[stray grove]

It’s a retcon yes

We all acknowledge Herrah is a weaver now

[ornate pier]

I think everyone agrees it is a retcon

[stray grove]

But that was clearly not the intent in HK

[stray grove]

mere is twisting the facts

[ornate pier]

But I think reconciling it is perhaps possible

[frigid belfry]

Describing focus as similar to hornet abilities is much more closely representative that silk =soul

[stray grove]

Retroactively we can of course say this

But in the context of HK it was a far weaker explanation

[frigid belfry]

Not representative that hornet can magically conjure silk even if she isn’t a weaver

[ornate pier]

It's either a total retcon or the details of weavers were very fuzzy and undecided to tc at the time

[frigid belfry]

Exactly what im saying

[stray grove]

They were, and the evidence mere is relying upon didn’t even exist in HK

[ornate pier]

Either way I do not think they saw herrah as a weaver

[stray grove]

However

Herrah was definitely not a Weaver lmao

Be fr

[frigid belfry]

She’s void

End of debate

[ornate pier]

Herrah is Silk

Herrah age debates

Is PK a predator

[frigid belfry]

Lace age debate

Slabfly

[limpid summit]

All we can logically say now is that there are likely ways that the Pharlid mask can shift and change during Weaverorphosis (like the round mask we see on everyone) and more unique ways (FS, Herrah)

[frigid belfry]

This was hilarious to read

[foggy fractal]

Silk ? Grand Mother Silk. Cue her sound track !

[frigid belfry]

We should make weaverorphosis some sk lore term

[stray grove]

Crazy how people immediately default to bad faith bullshit instead of actually engaging with the evidence presented to them

[wise sand]

My flesh is being slowly replaced with silk and song

[stray grove]

Shut UP oh my god

[frigid belfry]

I apologize for joking man

It can’t be that serious lmao

[stray grove]

It’s not that serious

[limpid summit]

Like yeah sure I guess

[stray grove]

I don’t like that guy specifically

He and I have a history

[frigid belfry]

He doesn’t seem that bad

[frigid belfry]

Ehh it’s probably just a retcon

[limpid summit]

Aw thank you Mere

[wise sand]

I lowkey have no idea what we're arguing about

[limpid summit]

Yeah probably

But that random mask maker mask may still be Herrah’s face

[frigid belfry]

This channel just devolves day by day

[viscid ridge]

Theres a lot of diversity in weavers, i think in dlcs they will hopefully explore it more

[dire lynx]

yeah, hes not like the nyleth guy who was just talking to piss me off

[frigid belfry]

I wish sos gives us some interesting new debates instead of the same 3 topics

[wise sand]

Its gotten slightly better than the first month or two of silksong dropping

[frigid belfry]

Weaver timeline, herrah, and some niche random topic about hornet feet

[edgy nebula]

i dont really care what’s going on here im just happy lace shipping was finally banned

anyway what do we think the lore relevance of barnacles is in silksong

barnacles imply more crustaceans

[wise sand]

I'm glad the lace thing has settled a bit

[limpid summit]

What corpses disappear in HK

[stray grove]

The sticking point was that there was no explanation for Hornet being able to use silk in HK which is just not true

[viscid ridge]

Like if you compare first sinner and widow, widow is hella tall. And if she had her mask on she would be even taller

[wise sand]

Oh it got banned?

[edgy nebula]

yes

[quick geyser]

Lace shipping Was banned? Where did the dev say that?

[ornate pier]

The amount of retcons in silksong was disgusting. It baffles me that instead of using a character we actually saw and witnessed in HK and knew well for years they decided to invent a completely random new protagonist that supposedly has deep ties with Hallownest. Hornet completely breaks the lore and it's not even funny

[wise sand]

Do you have a link to the mod post

[dire lynx]

its still rampant on insta and i presume reddit

[limpid summit]

We could fr get a lobster lancer

[edgy nebula]

#sk-discussion message

[wise sand]

Its gotten a bit better on reddit

[ornate pier]

Still think the karaks are all crustaceans tbh

[frigid belfry]

Tc will make the most barnacle/fish looking animal and give it a bug underbelly lmaoo

Fayforn

[stray grove]

Who?

[wise sand]

You used to get down voted into oblivion for even implying that lace is a child

But

[edgy nebula]

we have nothing to really believe they are

[wise sand]

Now it's kinda whatever

[quick geyser]

I can’t tell if this is satire or not

[ornate pier]

You have to think reallyyyy hard

[frigid belfry]

?

[edgy nebula]

iirc theyre either called bugs in journal entries or crust up, implying theyre made of coral

[dire lynx]

dont remember their name but they ragebait debated me for like 4 hours and so ive blocked em

[foggy fractal]

y'know that hotdog taco hamburger dedede clip ?
🗣️ Lace Age, Retcons, Sea of Sorrow.

[limpid summit]

This is satire guys

[edgy nebula]

like, kais are bugs for instance, they have shellsacks

[stray grove]

(It’s a joke)

[ornate pier]

Crustaceans are arthropods. Therefore buge

[quick geyser]

Damn me, I’m starting to fall for ragebait 💔

[frigid belfry]

Silkposts in sk lore

[edgy nebula]

#sk-discussion message

[viscid ridge]

Ive just joined in, im asuming yall have been arguing for a while by the way yall are on edge 🤣

[ornate pier]

Insects are actually nested within crustaceans infact!

[frigid belfry]

It’s been half light hearted debate and king hating on apples downfall

[quick geyser]

Oh damn

[foggy fractal]

lmao its real !

[limpid summit]

Call him Return

He is no king

[stray grove]

Ok Egg

[limpid summit]

Hey

[frigid belfry]

rename yourself

mere is so simple

[ornate pier]

Let's call him of

[edgy nebula]

well not really, we dont have much confirmation, the closest we have to it is crust king khann maybe being a play on the word crustacean

[limpid summit]

Woah

[edgy nebula]

i should replay coral tower to see if every enemy crusts up

[limpid summit]

I never thought about that

That’s insane

[ornate pier]

The yagos look Like shrimp
Just ignore they have wings uhhh bug anatomy is only a suggestion

[dire lynx]

oh yeah, enjoy this since weapon isnt around anymore to nuke me

[frigid belfry]

jokester ari

[quick geyser]

Welp, there goes my Lace character analysis 💔

[ornate pier]

They do but I don't think they're made of coral

Because of the corrcrust karakss

[limpid summit]

Stynx 👃💔

[ornate pier]

Lace age discussion is fine just not shipping

[edgy nebula]

well, aged coral turns to gray as seen by watcher at the edge (though that may just be from lack of water)

[ornate pier]

Their hunter journal talks about them being altered due to coral fusing to their shell, which wouldn't make sense if they were already coral to begin with

[frigid belfry]

His gray color seems more likely to come from the winds and dust

[ornate pier]

Oh yeah the flying ones don't crust up

[edgy nebula]

well then theyre prolly bugs then

[dire lynx]

hes bleached which happens when the algae that grow in coral eject themselves due to poor conditions

[ornate pier]

I think none of them are coral beings

Due to how corrcrust karakss work

[edgy nebula]

karakas karak gor and khann are very likely made of coral

[ornate pier]

Crusting up is probably a weird part of their physiology

[frigid belfry]

So the coral (mostly) is its own sentient being that lives symbiotically with the bugs in karak?

[dire lynx]

thats what i think

[edgy nebula]

yesnt

[ornate pier]

Yeah but the corrcrust karakas

Their whole thing is coral fused to them

So they're now different

[edgy nebula]

it continues to grow without khann’s influence but it’s possible he made alot of the coral

[ornate pier]

Wouldn't make sense if every karaka was already coral to begin with

[foggy fractal]

hey guys corrcrust karaka here

[dire lynx]

there is a type of hermit crab that grows coral on its body instead of taking snail shells

[wise sand]

Send

[frigid belfry]

I thought he shot out fart bubbles on my first encounter

[foggy fractal]

epic

[edgy nebula]

it’s likely not every bug is made of coral, such as allitas

[ornate pier]

Alitas crust up

I can confirm

[edgy nebula]

honestly i wouldnt be surprised if corrcrust karakas were allitas

[ornate pier]

Alitas crumble upon death like the karakas

[edgy nebula]

they look relativrly similar

[dire lynx]

each has a slightly unique shell thanks to the coral growing

[ornate pier]

Could be

To me the alitas are lobster things

[viscid ridge]

Honestly i wouldn't be surprised if the karak are bugs made of coral, they all seem to disintegrate into coral crust when they die

[ornate pier]

This is kind of incredible

[limpid summit]

Do you guys think Revek is also related to the Karak

[viscid ridge]

So its either they are made of coral, or they have some symbiotic relationship with the coral

[ornate pier]

Yeah I can see why it's a somewhat popular idea

[limpid summit]

He looks sort of like the flying duds but not really

[edgy nebula]

not really

[ornate pier]

But I have doubts against it due to existence of corrcrust karakas

[edgy nebula]

both could be true

[frigid belfry]

Probably just design inspiration

[ornate pier]

I think the crumbling upon death is like a quirk of their biology but also a thematic thing to show their connection to coral. But isn't meant to say that they ARE coral

[dire lynx]

not revek, but that one spirits glade guy is 100% a karaka

[limpid summit]

Yeah for sure

[foggy fractal]

GRRRR

[edgy nebula]

it’s possible khann is the source of all coral but at the same time it’s also unlikely as coral continues to grow after his death

[foggy fractal]

HIS NAME IS GARRO

[limpid summit]

I wonder how much shit TC added to the backer characters for similarity

[foggy fractal]

😠

[limpid summit]

Like Garro is a karaka but then Khann and the rest of them were also backer content meant to be in HK

[ornate pier]

Oh yeah the Karaka enemy is also called a bladebug in the HJ. So they are among bugs at least

[ornate pier]

I don't think he originated coral

[viscid ridge]

I wouldn't be surprised if they are coral with sentience considering we see literal rocks being able to have sentience

[edgy nebula]

however, the way khann is prophesied within karak society makes it possible his line and past family were spawned from coral

[limpid summit]

Then some dude made a spirit about the one warrior moth out of their pacifist tribe, only to have some other dude who paid more write the exact same concept as a bossfight

[dire lynx]

"is shrimp bug"

[ornate pier]

Arthropods

[limpid summit]

So backers totally weren’t in contact with one another

[ornate pier]

This game has snails!!! So crabs and shrimp can be bugs!!!!

[edgy nebula]

team cheery give me a barnacle boss please

[ornate pier]

Barnacle pirate captain boss

Peehaps

[dire lynx]

no, its a meme thing

[ornate pier]

I have a lot of ideas for pharloom bay enemies in my head already

[viscid ridge]

I mean we already see mollusks and barnacles in the bay area, so crabs aren't out of the question

[ornate pier]

Figures

[dire lynx]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShrimpsIsBugs/

[edgy nebula]

i made a sketch design for a barnacle enemy who takes inspiration from stalking devouts

give us barnacles

[viscid ridge]

I still think a lot of the enemies we will encounter in the bay will be crabs and mollusks like amonites and such things

[dire lynx]

i would kill for a moray eel bug, i love morays

[ornate pier]

The guy in the trailer is supposed to be a barnacle right

[dire lynx]

presumably

[viscid ridge]

Think hes like some sort of mollusk

[ornate pier]

I had an idea of like a fatass overgrown barnacle that works like a mawlurk but somewhat fscing to another side

[ornate pier]

He could also be a hermit crab or smth

[edgy nebula]

which guy

[ornate pier]

The shelled one

[edgy nebula]

the guy with the beard and the shell? Hes probably a hermit crab

[dire lynx]

i love hermit crabs

[edgy nebula]

but we see HUGE barnacles in the background

[ornate pier]

I wonder where I heard them called barnacles

Can someone check the filename of the memorium sprite, that mightve been it

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but his tentacles don't really scream crab to me, i think we'll see more crablike bugs. But i wouldn't be surprised if he is

[dire lynx]

people were calling the area barnacle bay before the actual name was revealed

[edgy nebula]

barnacle bay is a much better name

[viscid ridge]

Still think its a better name, Team Cherry take notes

[dire lynx]

i meant to reply to hay there >.<

[viscid ridge]

Singular braincell you and i

[edgy nebula]

do we think if any water ever comes back to karak the karakas will awaken

[dire lynx]

i think they would

[edgy nebula]

Just add water!

[viscid ridge]

Life will start flourishing again, but i doubt they will

[edgy nebula]

what if khann is a triops

[ornate pier]

To what extent will there be underwater exploration in the dlc

[viscid ridge]

Do we have any sketches of potential npcs for Barnacle bay? I know i saw that one with the guy with the hook, and that one sketch of ships, but are there anything else?

[ornate pier]

Will the submarine have its own moves or what

[dire lynx]

this guy is such a triops ngl

[viscid ridge]

My guess is its just a 3rd fast travel option

Maybe it will be like the trams, but on water

[dire lynx]

this is what i think

[ornate pier]

Yeah but that would be sooo lame

It was also kinda stated that you will be exploring Beneath the sea

[dire lynx]

i think we will unlock a dive ability and swim through the area at a later time, maybe a scripted breakdown of the sub

[ornate pier]

Perhaps

Dive ability has so much potential

Maybe even too much

Because then like any body of water in the basegame is fair game

[dire lynx]

i spent 3 hours checking for silk soar access points 💀

[edgy nebula]

why are gargant glooms so scary

[ornate pier]

Id like to see this guy in the dlc as a large enemy

[dire lynx]

it can have eggs on its back that i can throw or hatch when fighting

[quick geyser]

That looks like a giant cockroach

[ornate pier]

That's a giant water bug or toe biter

[dire lynx]

its called a toe biter

[ornate pier]

Yes it is a freshwater bug but like Shut Up

[edgy nebula]

how team cherry feels giving us a super cool ability brimming with potential for secrets for it to only be useful for coral tower and karmelita

[ornate pier]

I mean silk soar had a good deal of stuff

The surface climb, Mr mushroom

Is there anything else tbh

[dire lynx]

styx lore

and silk syphon

[ornate pier]

Id love for it to look super grotesque

Undersea beast

Will we be seeing a bunch of plasmified enemies or nah

[dire lynx]

i hope not

annoying enemy type

[ornate pier]

True...

[viscid ridge]

Yall can't handle plasmafied peak

[dire lynx]

ur right, zango #1 silksong boss fight

[ornate pier]

Zango changed my life. The music, the phases, his attacks, the beauty of his arena, everything. Truly the highlight of Act 3.

[tribal mulch]

Hey when do i get able to play the challenges in the flea festival like i rest on a bench head back and it doesn't happen but I have flea friend feat

[viscid ridge]

People only complain about zango cause they fight him in the most stupid way possible 💀 if they used their noggin he is literally dead in 4 hits

[dire lynx]

#sk-help

[tribal mulch]

Im also in act 3

[limpid summit]

Rest on a bench other than Fleatopia then go to the Bellhart board

A wish should appear

[viscid ridge]

Go somewhere else, and then come back. Then the festival should start. Theres also a quest on the bellheart board if you want to make totally sure its available. Also this is more of a ss help question lmao

[ornate pier]

People complain because he is an extremely dissapointing fight

[tribal mulch]

Oh okay

[dire lynx]

what u doing when he comes back in pantheons...

[viscid ridge]

Hes not even a boss man, hes just a easy way to get blood idk what yall were expecting. If you want a propper lifeblood fight, it'll hopefully be in sea of sorrows 🤣

[dire lynx]

he literally has a namecard, hes a boss

[ornate pier]

The craggler is unironically more of a boss than zango

When Zango dies he has no slowdown and uses the animation used by large enemies

[viscid ridge]

Aai aai aai, literal 4 hit boss and people still complain

[ornate pier]

Craggler has a slowdown and a proper boss death animation

[edgy nebula]

the craggler also spawns the most baller little shits the game has ever seen: cragglites

[ornate pier]

And a drop too

[dire lynx]

most people finished the quest before they fought the boss

[tribal mulch]

I don't have the ecstasy of end wish yet

[ornate pier]

If they wanted to give just one of them a title it should've gone to the craggler instead

[tribal mulch]

But I have egg of flealia which is the final gift

[ornate pier]

Yo bro no offense but #sk-help

[viscid ridge]

People are very silly then. It was such a eurika moment when i figured out i can get easy blood from zango when i found out hes alive again

[dire lynx]

i didnt even remember to check him until after id finished the quest

same for a lot of people

[ornate pier]

To me the issue is that if he has a name card he should at least have a somewhat interesting fight

[viscid ridge]

Thats a shame

[ornate pier]

But he doesn't

He is a large unique enemy

And that's a shame

It's like if you gave the undercrank that shows up near that one pale ore a nametag

[dire lynx]

also this, his fight is the genuine least interesting in the game, some regular enemies are more engaging to fight

[viscid ridge]

A lot of minor bosses get title cards i dont know why you harp on it so much. Leave the proper plasmified boss for dlc

[dire lynx]

he WILL be in pantheons, and it will be boring and obnoxious

[ornate pier]

All of them at least feel like a boss fight

Watcher of the edge is kinda on the edge (😂) but it is still infinitely more of a boss fight than zango

[dire lynx]

at least watcher has two attacks, zango could never

[edgy nebula]

watcher at the edge, unlike zango, is actually fun

[ornate pier]

You could count his stupid little chud crawl run as an attack

[ornate pier]

It was pretty mid ngl

[viscid ridge]

And lets be honest, if zango had more complicated moves while being able to regenerate, people would have also complained

[edgy nebula]

i liked him, but that move where he dropkicks you in the face was kinda annoying

[dire lynx]

no, because at least it coulve been a fun fight, regenning bosses can be enjoyable if well designed

[viscid ridge]

At least hes better than markoth 💀

[ornate pier]

Exactly

[dire lynx]

markoth is better on base, even P5 arena markoth isnt as boring as zango

[viscid ridge]

I get that, but i still think your expectation were a little high

[viscid ridge]

Its like complaining that gruz mother or noss charger is a boring fight. Not every fight has to be a literal game changing masterpiece

[dire lynx]

how unreasonable of me to want an at least decently designed fight

[dire lynx]

GRUZZ MOTHER AND MOSS CHARGER ARE EARLY GAME

[ornate pier]

Gruzz mother and miss charger didn't even get names onscreen

[dire lynx]

lol thats true

[ornate pier]

Ok well moss charger

[ornate pier]

Still the point is still there

Gruzz mother is potentially the first boss

Zango is ACT THREE

[viscid ridge]

Am i the only one that thinks its not that deep? 🤣

[dire lynx]

bro, just admit that ur wrong. zango is a dogass boss

[viscid ridge]

Watcher at the edge?

[dire lynx]

watcher at least has a flow to its combat

[ornate pier]

That one is also mid af but still better than zango

[dire lynx]

zango is easily the worst boss in the game, even summonned saviour is better

[viscid ridge]

I never said its a good fight, i just said yall have way to high expectations for a literal blood deposit for making a quest easier 🤣

[heavy gyro]

Zango is a boss?

[dire lynx]

yes

he has a namecard

[viscid ridge]

Yeah? He still made my quest easier?

[coarse forge]

Question who will win 1 gms or 100 weavers

[dire lynx]

he will be back in boss rush and it will be boring and obnoxious

[heavy gyro]

Peak boss

[viscid ridge]

Seeing as they built a literal city around her to get her to sleep, i bet on the weavers

[viscid ridge]

Who?

[dire lynx]

Zango

[viscid ridge]

Tf cares man

[ornate pier]

Craggler is a boss agenda

[viscid ridge]

Its not that deep you'll kill him in less than a minute

[ornate pier]

Craggler will show up in the pantheons, mark my words

[dire lynx]

i wish

[ornate pier]

Craggler is more of a boss than zango can ever claim to be

[dire lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/this-slander-is-so-good-one-piece-slander-yuta-okkotsu-jjk-gif-1838148331228807527

[ornate pier]

Think of how the soul warrior, moss charger and venegfly king had no nametags

[viscid ridge]

Getting annoyed about a boss rush thats not even out yet 🤣

[ornate pier]

But made it in anyways

[dire lynx]

just pipe down unc

[ornate pier]

SURELY the mf with a boss slowdown and full on boss defeat animation will make it in

[heavy gyro]

Soul warrior is the biggest fraud boss

[dire lynx]

not with zango around

[foggy fractal]

how about voltvyrm

[dire lynx]

voltvyrm is more engaging

[ornate pier]

No voltwyrm is definitely an actual boss

A lame one

But definitely a boss

[dire lynx]

it feels like it was designed for act one like khann

both are way to easy for act three

[viscid ridge]

Tbf voltvyrm is act 2 boss

But khann you can feel was supposed to be a act 1 boss

[ornate pier]

#BuffKhann

[viscid ridge]

Honestly if they made his moves a little faster he would have been harder

[ornate pier]

Make his moves faster and make them actually attempt to target you

Maybe also a move on the walls

Like he spawns coral on the walls

They added extra attacks to certain bosses in HK dlcs make it happen tc

[dire lynx]

khann, gms and fourth chorus all need harder rematch versions

[ornate pier]

I think Khann just needs a direct buff to his fight everywhere

He's an act 3 boss

[viscid ridge]

Nah 4th chorus and GMS is perfect

[ornate pier]

Gms could be harder but I guess it's for game balance yadayada

[tribal mulch]

thats weird I didn't gt the ecstasy of end wish but its still triggered flea festival stage

[viscid ridge]

Faster, and more pillars in his second phase

[dire lynx]

they were both way to easy, some of the few bosses i first tried on my initial playthrough

[heavy gyro]

Tbf khann is easy because of his gauntlet

GMS is balanced for the twisted ending

[ornate pier]

You get a shortcut after 3 of his gauntlets it's not a good enough justification

[viscid ridge]

So? I first tried the hollow knight and i dont see anyone complaining

[dire lynx]

we got a harder and better version of that fight in godhome

[viscid ridge]

As said again, not every boss has to be a bloody elden ring bull bossfight to be enjoyable

My favorite act 2 boss is cogwork dancers, and its a peace of cake

[tribal mulch]

WHAT FUCK okay for some reason now moshka gives you the wish and not at the bellhart wish board

[viscid ridge]

Compared to everything else

[dire lynx]

#sk-help

[viscid ridge]

Yeah you can do it either or

[tribal mulch]

I have ecstasy of the end lad

[dire lynx]

this is a lore channel, lad

[tribal mulch]

Wait

I WAS IN DISCUSSION BEFORE

[dire lynx]

...

also, not a lad

[tribal mulch]

Oop

[foggy fractal]

ash baby

[viscid ridge]

Unn fan vs hydrogen bomb(calling people lads)

[dire lynx]

both were let downs, every person ive talked to agrees gms was disappointingly easy and chorus deserves a fight with difficulty to match its spectacle

and also the hype it built after being in every trailer

i think chorus is fine for where it is, but GMS is balanced around cursed ending which hurts her in a regular run

[viscid ridge]

I just get the impression that you like to complain about everything, its not that deep. If you want a harder bossfight, go play blasphemous or nine sols (both peak btw)

Its not that deep

[dire lynx]

i get the impression youre bad at the game, its not that deep. go hop on steal a brainrot or grow a garden

its not that deep

[viscid ridge]

I can see that got to you, which just proves my point more 🤣

[dire lynx]

you use ad hominem instead of interacting with the actual points ive made

everyone agrees gms was too easy

and im not asking to buff the base versions, im asking for a buffed godhome version

[viscid ridge]

If you say so lad everyone is entitled to their opinions

[dire lynx]

...

you arent funny

[spark valve]

Oh boy deliberate repeated misgendering over lore

What an unpleasant person

[ornate pier]

Ikr 😭

Weirdly it took me years to find out lad was male specific, not sure why

[spark valve]

<@&283547423706447872> should probably at least be aware

[foggy fractal]

hello tammo

[spark valve]

Hello

[raw plover]

any tldr

or who's messages to read

[muted lantern]

What happened?

I guess i'll just read

[muted lantern]

I think its just above the ash baby.

[spark valve]

They’re already muted

[raw plover]

not fair, i wanted to do the muting

[foggy fractal]

har har har

[muted lantern]

I still don't even understand what happened properly.

Why did he get so weird about someone giving like the most polite possible correction.

[foggy fractal]

no idea, but I do have an idea on something else though !

[muted lantern]

Tell us tell us!

[spark valve]

Is it hornet slander if so shoot

[muted lantern]

Hornet killed my grandma okay?

my grandma silk

[spark valve]

Well she did have it coming

[foggy fractal]

I'd like to think that there is some lore significane of void generally having four eyes and in vgfocus' case, 4 eyes on each side making 8

[muted lantern]

I still think the curved rows of eyes on the tendrils look similar to abyss creature. But yeah its interesting... We know weavers tinkered with the void, maybe some could have been imprinted on it? but that wouldn't explain the lord of shades...

[spark valve]

Void seems to naturally lend itself to certain forms

[foggy fractal]

true

there was some dialogue about them being barbed I think ? tendrils at least

[edgy nebula]

well we only see void tendrils from one side, so its pretty likely they have 8 i think

[spark valve]

Ancient civ even has an idol mimicking a unified form when they’d never have seen one

[muted lantern]

Also guys can we set up a counter for the amount of times i mix up first sinner and widows names, im at 2 right now.

maybe more

[drowsy canyon]

i enjoy silksongs themes and its stories moral implications, and the messages of familial trauma and religion

[muted lantern]

Important lore question, why do the stilkin not just use blowdart guns.. Why do they hold their poison darts in their mouth???

Very icky, then again, they eat maggots. They are probably immune to whatevers going on in bilewater.

[drowsy canyon]

Id assume since they swim in clearly contaminated water they’ve gained immunities via adapting

I interpret silksong act 3 ending with lace laughing as her not ‘mocking’ but being bewildered that hornet was crazy enough to go out of her way to pull off her rescue of Lace

[muted lantern]

Generally agree, shes laughing at the absurdity of the situation. Why the hell would hornet go out of her way to rescue the girl who kept trying to murder her, especially considering lace doesn't even consider herself a person.

[dire lynx]

i agree, that and just being overwhelmed at what happenned

[drowsy canyon]

I enjoy laces internal struggle from a storytelling standpoint

[dusk kraken]

Teal hardened shell, spindly black legs, and a tentacle face that's about where tangible evidence ends.

[dire lynx]

the god tamer was originally called the lobster lancer...

[muted lantern]

Every day i pray for lobter lancers return

[dusk kraken]

Mhm I was thinking that too but I didn't know if I should've gone any deeper into this

[muted lantern]

This is why lobster lancer was cut

Tragic another celebrity lost to drugs, alchohol, and hot oil.

[dire lynx]

i dont wanna look at that can u spoiler it pls

[muted lantern]

I'll just delete it

[oblique rampart]

Fr

[edgy nebula]

ive gone ahead and created a list

[dusk kraken]

I have some shrimp to cook later today

[edgy nebula]

crusters uppers

• karaka
• alita
• karak gor
• corrcrust karaka
• crust king khann

non-crusters uppers

• yago
• conchfly
• kai (all variants)
• kakri
• yuma
• yumama
• driznarga

[dire lynx]

thanks

[spark valve]

what is this sorting

[edgy nebula]

i noticed some coral tower enemies crust up and others dont

[dusk kraken]

Ohh ok

[muted lantern]

What the fuck is yumama

[edgy nebula]

it can be inferred that he crusters uppers are made entirely of coral while the ones who arent dont crust up

[edgy nebula]

the big jellyfish

[foggy fractal]

maybe I am also made of coral

[muted lantern]

Yumama so stupid her species doesnt contain a brain.

[edgy nebula]

i wouldnt be surprised since you look like the son of a karak gor

[foggy fractal]

true

[oblique rampart]

Fr

[ornate pier]

"Overgrown elder, able to spawn burning bubbles from within its coral-cased shell.

This bug's fusion with the crust-growth... It seems intentional, though I imagine the union is far from comfortable."

Corrcrust karaka description

They can't really be made of coral

Unless it's coral fusing with some different kind of coral but I heavily doubt that

[dire lynx]

i still think they are crustaceans growing coral either on or in their shells

[mint stratus]

It refers to the coral coming from ‘within’ so I assume it is grown inside, similar to how hornets silk comes from within her shell?

[ornate pier]

The bubble are what's coming from within I think

[mint stratus]

Ah, my mistake

I’d always assumed them to be the coral peoples version of overgrown pilgrims

[edgy nebula]

oh yeah, this is fair, i never actually read it

but i dont think this is evidence to prove that normal karakas arent made of coral

also when dying, corrcrust karakas spawn grey coral pellets and orange coral pellets on the parts of their bodies that have different colors, though maybe that’s a stand-in of sorts

[ornate pier]

Idea is if they're already made of coral them being altered due to coral fusing to their shell doesn't really make sense

Could be different types of coral interacting, doubt it though

Personally I see it as a biological quirk of these bugs, which is also a thematic reference to their connection to the coral

[edgy nebula]

well it’s definitely different types of coral, we never see any other karakas spray the orange balls

[dire lynx]

there are alot of examples of animals growing diffferent species on or in their bodies, especially in inverterbrates.
i think its most reasonable to think the coral is in some form of symbiosis with the people of karak

[ornate pier]

Most likely

[edgy nebula]

this is cool but do we really have anything to back it up? /gen

[mint stratus]

Which ones calcify into corals and which ones don’t?

[edgy nebula]

not every karak bug crusts up, yagos and kakris as an example, only specific bugs do

[edgy nebula]

#sk-lore message

[dire lynx]

im talking about irl as far as examples of invert symbiosis

but they just look like crustaceans, if they were coral i feel they would actually be designed around that like the mushrooms or plant characters we see

[edgy nebula]

yeah, i meant to respond to the 2nd message, my bad

[mint stratus]

Thank you very much!

Skxnsk Honestly thought you just answered with a link to the channel we were already in and I was very confused

[dire lynx]

the fact they turn to crust when they die, and we know they are capable of growing extensive coral on their bodies

[ornate pier]

Crustaceans made of coral is a cool concept

But I doubt it's the case here

[edgy nebula]

i feel like only symbiosis with the orange coral is true, karaka to me feel like theyre entirely made with coral

[dire lynx]

we dont really have a reason to think that, especially considering there is no note of such in the hunters journal, i feel hornet would write about it if that were the case

[edgy nebula]

the past rulers of karak and khann also seem prophesied in a way, which make me feel like theyre some magical creation of coral

[edgy nebula]

i suppose that’s true

but why would they crust up and leave no trace if they werent entirely coral?

[mint stratus]

The ones who calcify seem to be heavily armored warriors if that means anything?

[dire lynx]

not sure, could just be for the sake of simplicity from an art angle

[edgy nebula]

team cherry doesnt really sweat the details is the thing, we see kingsmoulds do something similar in base hk where after you kill them their noodle bodies fly out

karakas just dont do that

[mint stratus]

It could simply be the coral symbiote flash calcifies them upon death?

[muted lantern]

Maybe ckk is a higher being and formed his army out of crust.

like living terracotta soldiers

[edgy nebula]

that's the theory i personally subscribed to before but im not so sure now

[mint stratus]

If I were to start smoking my biology major I’d theorize that perhaps them crumbling immediately upon calcifying is a way for the coral to propagate itself

[edgy nebula]

well the coral can grow freely as seen by crust trees, regenerating lore tablets, and khann's attacks, i dont think it really needs those bodies

[mint stratus]

It’s more a matter of spreading out rather than necessarily requiring to grow upon their shells to continue its life cycle

[dire lynx]

that makes sense

[stray grove]

He’s not a higher being

[muted lantern]

Just an idea I was throwing out there to explain it.

[stray grove]

Also the Karaka aren’t constructs

[mint stratus]

It depends on your definition honestly

[dire lynx]

its like those seeds that have spikes so that they can be spread by mammals after sticking in their fur

[stray grove]

The game says he’s not

[muted lantern]

The terracotta warriors thing is definitly a fun image tho.

[stray grove]

They’re likely based on that

But they’re not literally constructs

[muted lantern]

Oh fr? can you send the line?

[stray grove]

The crusting stuff is a weird part of their physiology it seems

[stray grove]

Sure

[muted lantern]

Maybe the karaka just get parasitized by crustnuts or something. (Im still spitballing)

[mint stratus]

Exactly! If the people of karak intentionally do this I can see them having overtime evolved to facilitate this relationship

[edgy nebula]

im just not sure whyd they crust up if theyre not constructs, i always saw them as being made by khann

[muted lantern]

Don't say it don't say it don't say it don't say it.

[mint stratus]

I’d think the same, but hornet never refers to them as artificial so I’m inclined to think they’re alive?

[stray grove]

We could do it. The spell can be cast, with enough power, enormous power, equal maybe to that monarch...
Hornet: I cannot grant you mine, if it even were enough. My strength is still needed to face her below. Where else do you propose we seek a source?
Chapel Maid: From Pharloom! Ho ho ho! Remember, ours is a kingdom of wishes granted.
Bell Hermit: Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her.
Bell Hermit: Grnk. Seek the old hearts of our kingdom and the last successors to bear their strength.
Chapel Maid: They're still out there, hidden away, much faded by the pale one's long dominion. You must make them stir.
Chapel Maid: We will teach you how, in the way befitting a Weaver, a sombre song to reach down into their memories and enliven them a final time.
Chapel Maid: The hearts you seek, we can share their locations as best we know.
Chapel Maid: Three will be needed to construct our spell and draw clear memory of the flower from your Silk.

This isn’t the full quote, and it’s already very long as it is so I’ve made the important bits bold. Essentially the Shamans need power akin to that of a higher being in order to perform the everbloom ritual, and all three hearts together are needed to generate that amount of power. That means that individually the hearts are only about 1/3 as powerful as a higher being at best (assuming it’s not a greater than the sum of its parts thing)
We’re also told only one monarch’s claws ever grasped the kingdom of Pharloom and that GMS bound the lands beneath her, implying she’s the only HB that was ever present. This is in contrast to Hallownest which has plenty and was specifically described as a land of gods

Ofc the main theme of the game is also to do with the centralization of power and this is something only higher/pale beings do

Which the hearts aren’t

Khann also doesn’t demonstrate any particularly notable abilities, his command of the coral crust is certainly advanced but even Karak Gorrs can do this so it’s not necessarily higher being magic

That he created them is quite the stretch imo

Hornet’s descriptions of them certainly don’t imply that at all

[edgy nebula]

khann was prophesied by his civilization and the karak gors have spent their entire lives in the tower to achieve minor coral manipulation

[muted lantern]

I mean I don't think not being equal in strength to gms discredits them from being higher beings. We have a very vague definition of what higher beings entails or if they are all on the same power level. However I think there are other reasons that imply them not being higher beings, people have said all the higher beings we encounter in the first game have some kind of essence effect around them, which these guys lack. Gms's is more vague but she does seem to have her own kind of dream realm in the silk dreams.

[stray grove]

He was the last in a line of kings

But the power he holds was passed down

The hearts’ powers are passed down

That’s another thing differentiating them from HBs

[edgy nebula]

ah yeah i suppose thats true

[stray grove]

The essence thing is kind of irrelevant, I elaborated further on why they’re unlikely to be HBs in the above post

[edgy nebula]

ive honestly always been a bit curious, how was karmelita or nyleths power passed down?

[silk dirge]

who do we think killed palestag

was it green prince

or his like parents

[edgy nebula]

it was me

[silk dirge]

or grandparents

i think probably just green prince

[muted lantern]

But at the very least these hearts have some level of mystical power, influencing their very environment. Whether that classifies them as higher beings is not really stated though. But again that definition is incredibly vague. A powerful enough being could just have natural influence without being hb.

[stray grove]

It’s not really clear, and it’s not like we know how Khann’s power was passed down either

[silk dirge]

i dont think theres anything implying it was like a family myth passed down

[muted lantern]

Isnt it stated he and his lover hunted it and thats why they were crowned as rulers?

[silk dirge]

yeah

[muted lantern]

So i assume they killed it toghether.

[edgy nebula]

they were crowned cause they were born the exact same moment, no? or is that just telling how they got cursed

[stray grove]

They’re connected to their environments but that doesn’t confer mystical abilities in the same vein as HBs, they’re literally the hearts of the lands
The power was always in the lands, it existed before them and is passed down

[muted lantern]

So the strongest being of that land possesses the heart essentially?

[stray grove]

This is a big distinction and the game clearly treats them differently to HBs in terms of scope

[mint stratus]

Can we please talk about how theres moss growing inside pilgrim stomachs: the overgrown pilgrims haunt me

[stray grove]

We don’t know exactly how it works

[muted lantern]

They eated too much moss like kris deltarune.

[stray grove]

We just know it’s a power that was always in the land itself and that’s the passed down… somehow

But the hearts are generally just inherited by strong bugs deeply attuned with their environments yes

[muted lantern]

They hold a tournament and the winner gets a heart transplant. /j

[stray grove]

Bell Hermit: Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her.
Bell Hermit: Grnk. Seek the old hearts of our kingdom and the** last successors to bear their strength.**

The relevant quote

The old hearts are the actual hearts of the land, the bugs Hornet kills are just the last who inherited their powers

[mint stratus]

I’d go into how I think they must me immunocompromised or something for this to happen, but then I remember they’re bugs and none of it applies (also what I do know about the immune system of bugs scares me they have it Rough)

[edgy nebula]

truth be told i am genuinely curious about nyleth specifically

who passed down their strength to her

[muted lantern]

Parasitic moss... very scary thought... Theres probably something irl like that but i don't know it.

[stray grove]

Again it’s vague, but last successors to bear their strength doesn’t necessarily mean there was someone before her

She could be the first and last person to inherit that power

[muted lantern]

Her mother, byleth. Best known for her role in fire emblem.

[edgy nebula]

holy shit. byleth recruits nyleth

[stray grove]

Nyleth calls herself a “wandering seed” and she seems to mirror Isma

It may be that after taking root she over time sequestered that power inside of herself

We know new hearts can be born, that seems to be what Moss Druid is doing

It’s not clear if the other hearts gained that power intentionally via a similar ritual or if it arose naturally

But ultimately at some point someone would need to become a focus for that power somehow before it could get passed down

And in Nyleth’s case I think it’s the result of her gradually becoming ingrained into the environment and forming an ecosystem as an extension of herself, similar to what Isma starts to do in HK

[muted lantern]

I do like the nyleth isma comparison, do you think it's canon they are the same species? last time i saw it proposed the person who said it got dogpiled.

[stray grove]

I think it’s very likely

There are a lot of parallels that are probably intentional

Not only do Nyleth and the Gahlia closely resemble Isma but she calls herself a wandering seed, does the exact same thing, has the same quirk of speaking in lowercase and one of her lines is “you too, distant shape”

[mint stratus]

So there are no mosses or lichens I could find that parasitize insects, HOWEVER
I did find this

[muted lantern]

Is that in her needolin dialogue?

[stray grove]

Yes

[dire lynx]

it should be pointed out that she seems to be aware this is a memory, she could be refferring to hornet or her past self in that dialogue

...the form... a memory...
...wandering seed...
...it longs... the whole...
...reaching... forward and out...
...you too, distant shape...
...convened within... lost without...

[muted lantern]

In this context could wandering seed be referring to a missing part of herself that longs to be whole? as in isma is that seed?

[stray grove]

I mean it wouldn’t make much sense for it to refer to Hornet

[stray grove]

She herself is the wandering seed

If we accept the premise that Isma and Nyleth are connected, the first form Isma takes would be what’s being referred to here

As in Nyleth also at one point was a wandering seed before she took root

[muted lantern]

hmm

interesting

[dire lynx]

i think its just reffering to herself

she is a seed that wanders

you too distant a shape is specifically the line i was talking about when saying it could be in reference to herself in her prime or hornet

in my opinion nyleth isma is not a very strong connection

[mint stratus]

It could be a good look into why some plant people have legs and such, and others are more akin to the grey parasite and the white root

[dire lynx]

i dont understand

[mint stratus]

Maple tree seeds carried by the wind vs a parasitic orchid lifecycle differences

[stray grove]

I think what they’re getting at is, in this universe there are a large number of plant like entities but they mostly do pretty different things and in the case of Isma and Nyleth that they more or less do the same thing is something that differentiates them from beings like Greyroot and White Lady

[stray grove]

I don’t think it can really refer to Hornet, and if it was Nyleth herself it would be weird to phrase it as distant shape

But I appreciate that bit of dialogue is vague

Ultimately there’s other stuff pointing towards a connection so even if it’s not conclusive I would say it at least seems intentional

[dire lynx]

there is literally no reason to think its isma unless you work backwards from the conclusion that it is

[stray grove]

I mean yeah I suppose to some extent

But this isn’t what forms the basis of the theory

[dire lynx]

you to distant a shape refers to unn because they both made a plant biome

[stray grove]

Well let’s not get ahead of ourselves here

[dire lynx]

thats what i see when you say it must be isma

[dire lynx]

i dont think thats accurate

[stray grove]

I think that’s a bit of a misrepresentation

That Nyleth and Isma not only share a resemblance but also the quality of being wandering seeds, seem to behave in a very similar fashion (wandering followed by rooting and giving rise to an entire ecosystem), plus the (admittedly weak) quirk of speaking in lowercase would seem to imply a connection

And the aforementioned distant shape dialogue corroborates that conclusion, it’s not the basis for it

[dire lynx]

we have no reason to think that nyleth ever looked like isma in the past, again, unless you work from the assumption that they are the same

[stray grove]

I mean that’s not what I said

Wandering seed would imply Nyleth at some point… wandered

[dire lynx]

she still can

[stray grove]

Prior to taking root and creating Shellwood, I assume that didn’t happen overnight

[dire lynx]

she is a flower capable of moving

[stray grove]

she’s rooted

That she can temporarily dislodge herself doesn’t mean she can travel the world freely

She’s likely bound to Shellwood

You can see her roots when she jumps off the wall

In any case, we know that Nyleth is currently rooted, that her “seed” is what gave rise to the entirety of Shellwood, and that she at one point in the distant past wandered prior to spreading “forward and out”

In HK we know Isma at one point took on a form that was capable of freely traversing the world i.e. wandering, and she eventually takes root and begins spreading “forward and out”, with plants extending from her body and forming a grove

I think you can acknowledge there’s a rather clear similarity there, even if Isma and Nyleth are at different stages of development

[muted lantern]

Okay yall, whats your nightmare blunt rotation for silksong?

hk characters allowed

[edgy nebula]

nightmare blunt rotation?????