sk-lore

[sinful nimbus]

Godhome elevates stuff magically its not just regular devotion

AbsRad is at her "peak potential" or wtv Godseeker states

[frosty gate]

Now this is when we get to interpretation territory

I think the Magic elevation Godseeker does is because they devote themselves to the being

And since they're a Hivemind

They're a lot of minds together in one, devoting to this one being

It could also just be magical bs tbh

For me, it made sense that the Godseekers being a Hive mind empowered Rad even more

That said, it's all shit pulled from my ass

From what I see in game

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not sure where the evidence for this would be and the implication would also be that The Knight's power is relative to its amount of devotees too

[frosty gate]

I mean, yes. The thing with TK is that, by unifying the void, it has the Siblings behind it

And there were thousands of those

Not exactly devoted, but they follow TK

And in EtV is the Siblings + the Godseekers

That's what I personally imply

[sinful nimbus]

They aren't devoted or followers all* of the void is the same entity as TK once you get Void Heart

-# *SOTV not included because ???

Also that would be a weird way to phrase having minions

Having minions doesn't alter your own power level it just gives you more influence

[frosty gate]

I mean, if the VH means the Knight unifies the void under its will it means that the Void Follows the Knights will

They aren't minions, at least not to TK

[frosty gate]

Why would I add SotV? I bring the info from HK endings

[sinful nimbus]

Something being under your will/control doesn't necessarily entail that

My limbs are under my control/will but they don't "follow" me

The void and TK unified into a single being

[frosty gate]

True but an HB wouldn't really need it to be willing, would it? Rad has many things forcefully under her will

[sinful nimbus]

The point isn't willing or not willing its that they are literally just extensions of TK unlike the infected

[frosty gate]

Also, before I forget, this idea came from the way the Godseekers empower stuff, but also because of how the HBs seem to get really worried about being "Forgotten" and how that seems to weaken them

[frosty gate]

That's... Actually fair.

I'm running out of bullets for this, fuck. Idk, TK works different because of void or something, that's the last thing I can think of right now

Which it does honestly, but I have no proper way to turn that into an argument

[sinful nimbus]

It weakens Rad in the sense that they won't have a place to exist without being thought about

None of us can live forever, and so we ask those who survive to remember us.
Hold something in your mind and it lives on with you, but forget it and you seal it away forever. That is the only death that matters.

And she does get stronger the more she's remembered in a sense but that's because she has more opportunities to enact her influence rather than her actual powers changing

[frosty gate]

"That is the only death that matters."

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

Was that Seer? What a bad ass line

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

Its a pretty good line it also recontextualizes Resting Grounds and moth culture to kinda be like ensuring an afterlife for the dead

[frosty gate]

I mean, I don't try to imply that their powers changes, they will keep doing the same thing they do, just more effectively

[frosty gate]

Would you say this is also the case for GMS?

[sinful nimbus]

She's not a dream being

[frosty gate]

I think that if forgetting them weakens them, devoting more people to them makes them more "powerful"

I don't like to use those words because it feels like I'm powerscaling, but I'm not

[sinful nimbus]

The weavers playing the tunes might've actually made her stronger though

[frosty gate]

At least I feel it would make sense that those are two things that can happen

[frosty gate]

Yeah that's what I'm saying, they were made to sing and worship her, maybe it's because GMS needed people to do that

The NMH kinda goes about it the same way

To preserve itself, it created the Grimmkin

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think its the worship per se but rather the songs casting a spell or wtv but I mean again this cutscene isn't fleshed out at all 😭

[frosty gate]

None of the flashbacks are

I also don't think it has to be the worship itself, but the fact that someone keeps her in mind or remembers her or whatever

[frosty gate]

Well that's actually backpedaling from my point that the Pilgrims praising Silk did something to GMS

[frosty gate]

To be honest, all we know about the song is that it's used to "Sustain her"

[stray fog]

I wish we got more lore about this

Like wdym gms needed to be sustained

[sinful nimbus]

This will further the GMS weakest hb agenda

[frosty gate]

Agreed, this is why I hold on to the "Worshipping" theory thing

[sinful nimbus]

PK Rad and WL didn't need their creations to cast a rejuvenating spell on them periodically

[frosty gate]

The HBs need someone to sustain them in someway, whether forcefully or willingly

[stray fog]

What about the white lady

[frosty gate]

No but Rad being forgotten proves the point that without someone, they will die

[frosty gate]

She's the odd one out honestly, I have no word for her

[sinful nimbus]

OK but when people started to forget her she took matters into her own hands and started the infection

[frosty gate]

All HBs have followers

Except WL

[stray fog]

The white lady is the weirdest

Nothing is known about her origin either

[sinful nimbus]

Most slept on HB

[frosty gate]

Which is crazy considering her importance to the plot

[frosty gate]

Exactly, kinda the same with GMS

GMS didn't die because the Weavers still remembered her even if they didn't worship her

I guess

I honestly have no clue

[frosty gate]

And I mean, Widow is still there

[stray fog]

Will the shade lord die

Noone even knows about their existence

[spark valve]

gms isn’t a dream being she won’t die for being forgotten

Nor will lord of shades

[frosty gate]

I was arguing that it won't because the Shade Lord had many minds in its own form which keeps it going, or because the Void works differently, but nothing really seems to convince me about it

[stray fog]

This is getting very speculative now

[frosty gate]

Unn wasn't a dream and she was weakened by having barely any followers

[frosty gate]

Yeah that's why I back down from that statement of VGF, I have no idea about it

But I am convinced that having a following has an effect on HBs

[spark valve]

No it’s not clear why she weakened

Not much reason to say it’s caused by loss of followers

Seer’s statement is about a dream entity that needs to exist in minds

From the perspective of a tribe who accordingly holds memories and mental forms in higher value

[stray grove]

Also beyond needing them to have a place to exist the quality and quantity of those who remember Rad isn’t indicated to matter at all

Being weakened due to “a lack of followers” is unprecedented even for a dream entity

[stray fog]

Even if its not about being remembered or forgotten, multiple higher beings have rituals to propagate themselves, and those rituals require followers

• The nightmare heart does all the grimm troupe stuff
• Gms required a song
• the radiance needed to be remembered

[stray grove]

NMH propagates itself

Almost the entire troupe is created by it as an extension of it

[stray fog]

Someone else is required for collecting flames

[stray grove]

GMS didn’t require a song to propagate herself

Rad is a very special case

[stray fog]

We don't know if the grimmkin are artificial

[stray grove]

They’re created by the heart

Grimm calls them his breed and WL says the troupe is “all and one clan and master”

Also they’re living nightmares

[stray fog]

They're all one because they're all controlled by the nightmare heart

[stray grove]

They’re also all created by it to serve as an extension of it

That’s just what Grimmkin are

[stray fog]

We see that nymm was a normal bug, so the same could be true for other grimmkin

[stray grove]

The only non NMH members of the troupe are the volunteers

Brumm isn’t a Grimmkin

[stray fog]

So it does have followers

[stray grove]

It doesn’t need them

They aren’t essential to its survival

[spark valve]

surely it's not like there's a room in the tent showing all the grimmkin in the grimm fight were hollow masks or anything

[stray fog]

I thought those were normal bugs and the masks were controlling them

[stray fog]

True

[stray grove]

They’re the same as the Grimmkin masks and Grimmkin are incorporeal

[stray fog]

But it does need someone to participate in the flame collecting ritual atleast

[stray grove]

It probably doesn’t actually

The Grimmkin collect most of the flames themselves

[stray fog]

Then why does the knight need to do allat

[stray grove]

Because the scout died before lighting the lantern

[stray fog]

Oh

[stray fog]

This theory is ruined then

[stray grove]

I mean there’s just no correlation

[stray fog]

Wrong gif

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[spark valve]

the nightmare heart does need to be remembered it just creates its own vessels

this isn't because higher beings need to be remembered or worshipped

it's because it's also a dream god

[stray fog]

Nvm I misread your message

[stray grove]

It’s also kind of a loner

[limpid summit]

I wonder if it’s an inherently like

Nightmarish quality that allows NMH to perpetuate itself by itself

Like beyond HBs just being different why couldn’t Rad do it really

[stray grove]

I mean NMH occupies a very small part of the dream expanse and just keeps to itself

It’s not constantly looking for new places to exist like Rad

[spark valve]

it also can't just perpetuate itself freely it needs the whole apparatus of the troupe already constructed

like rad couldn't just suddenly start doing that

[limpid summit]

What would happen if it did run out of worshippers

[stray fog]

She did create the moths

[spark valve]

if the ritual failed it would die

[stray grove]

Yeah NMH uses the ritual to make new vessels and just transfers its consciousness into those vessels and nobody else

[limpid summit]

I’m sure there’s no shortage of dead kingdoms but did we essentially save it by unearthing the lantern

Is that why Grimm is so polite

[stray grove]

Rad is trying to crowdfund a ritual basically

[spark valve]

well

more pk kindly offered her one and she wasn't happy with it

[stray fog]

She liked the moths more ig

[sinful nimbus]

THK was such a sweet deal smh

[stray fog]

Why be in a bug who barely has a mind

[stray grove]

What I mean is NMH focuses on having one vessel to remember it and the entire ritual is designed to keep that one vessel alive (and replace it when it’s no longer of any use) whereas Rad spreads herself out so that if any number of bugs remembering her died she’d have plenty of others to fall back on

[stray fog]

If you can have a whole kingdom

[spark valve]

the heart is trapped in the nightmare realm anyways it's just trying to survive, rad also wants freedom and more substantially revenge

[stray grove]

Like if you killed Grimm that would be pretty bad

[sinful nimbus]

Is The Heart the smartest HB

[spark valve]

if she had any chill rad would be fine

[sinful nimbus]

It figured out it could just roleplay with itself all day and live forever

[stray grove]

PK

NMH won’t live forever either

[stray fog]

The pale king made some contraptions and shi

[limpid summit]

WL learned all of this at the HB convention

[spark valve]

pk and the heart did basically arrive at the same plan

[limpid summit]

The smartest HB is MM

[sinful nimbus]

Only a fool believes that void can be fashioned to do their bidding

[stray fog]

Moss mother

[limpid summit]

Don’t get involved in unnecessary drama

Just readjust bro 💔

[sinful nimbus]

Sorry the narrative frames PK as a bumbling moron

[stray grove]

PK gets bonus points because of the sheer scale though

NMH is selfish and cares only for its own propagation unlike my glorious King

[stray fog]

How is that selfish if it doesn't harm anyone

[sinful nimbus]

Well it also entertains passersby for no clear benefit

[stray fog]

Bro is just living

[stray grove]

I said selfish not malicious

[stray fog]

But wanting to live isn't selfish

[spark valve]

I mean the reasons they did it are different but the thing is similar

[sinful nimbus]

Imagine how tuff it would be if all of Dirtmouth and Ellina pulled up to watch you fight among the Grimmkin

[spark valve]

just make a vessel to contain the dream god

[stray grove]

Yeah PK had more noble reasons so I’m giving him more points

[spark valve]

can a vengeful spirit ricochet and kill elderbug

[stray fog]

Who is ellina

[sinful nimbus]

PK was doing it to save his kingdom which is inseparable from him ergo it was ultimately selfish too

[spark valve]

'no cost too great'

[sinful nimbus]

She's an explorer who wrote a "Wanderer's Journal" (The official artbook)

[stray grove]

He is his kingdom yes
But wanting his kingdom to prosper entails the happiness and safety of his citizens

[sinful nimbus]

She sees Grimm and calls him chill

[sinful nimbus]

That's collateral

[spark valve]

nuh uh

[stray grove]

Hallownest is nothing if not for her King, and the King is nothing if not for his loyal subjects

[stray fog]

Wait does the wanderer's journal take place during the game?

[sinful nimbus]

NMH's ritual also benefits TK and gives anyone free entertainment

[stray fog]

Where does she see grimm

[sinful nimbus]

So its noble too

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[spark valve]

under palest watch 🗣️ 🔥

[stray grove]

It doesn’t really benefit TK

[sinful nimbus]

She sees Grimm near the end of the book

[stray grove]

Also the entertainment is for NMH’s sake

[spark valve]

uuuh there's a charm notch in it

[stray grove]

Nobody else likes it

The kingdoms it visits are also dead

Great audience

[sinful nimbus]

It literally offers its help with combat

[spark valve]

only to slack off

[stray grove]

NMH is a bottom feeding scavenger that’s literally its whole deal

[sinful nimbus]

OK but that's a "the boss when you fight it vs the boss when you unlock it as a playable character" type deal

In universe I'm sure its formidable

[spark valve]

yap

[stray fog]

While were talking about tje nightmare heart, does this dialogue suggest that it tries to become a dead kingdom's king

[stray grove]

No

[sinful nimbus]

Ellina shows up dawg

The rest of Dirtmouth would've too if Elderbug and Iselda weren't xenophobes

[spark valve]

does she actually see a performance

[sinful nimbus]

Doesn't matter

[stray grove]

Sorry you’re right I concede Ellina’s “entertainment” is more important than the continued survival of an entire population

PK wasn’t even just protecting Hallownest

[spark valve]

vespa's a bum

[stray fog]

Elderbug complains about the town being too empty, but when a circus shows up he starts whimpering

[sinful nimbus]

Holy strawman

[stray fog]

Then why did she say the king line

[sinful nimbus]

King I was just saying the good affects of both of their plans were merely collateral and secondary to their selfish motives

[spark valve]

effects*

you lose

[sinful nimbus]

💔

[stray grove]

The reason PK tried to establish relationships with the neighboring kingdoms is because he genuinely believed Hallownest was the best shot they had at long term survival and wanted everyone to be a part of it

Same reason he told people not to leave

You can twist that as selfishness but he’s ultimately about maximizing happiness

He wasn’t short of subjects

[spark valve]

Also like his actions were pretty clearly beneficial to bugs in hallownest overall

you can always arbitrarily insert bad motives if you want but that's not really supported

[stray grove]

Like what did the shrumals contribute 💀

PK was basically running a charity

[sinful nimbus]

Let's take a look at the Hallownest economy and social hierarchy shall we

[stray grove]

The economy was fine lmao

[spark valve]

there was some inequality but it's not like the west half of the city was in squalor

[sinful nimbus]

Its all about maximizing happiness guys 🥀

It seems the weakest, greediest members of Hallownest were also the ones who exerted the most influence. Truly a Kingdom that was always destined for ruin.

[stray grove]

The kingdom is literally in ruin (and has been for several centuries) and still has a more stable economy than Pharloom

[spark valve]

nobody's saying it's perfect??

[stray fog]

Can't a man create wealth inequality 💔

[sinful nimbus]

Oh yeah if its better than slaveland it must be good

[stray grove]

I love Hunter but he’s yapping I’m sorry

He doesn’t know anything about running a kingdom

[spark valve]

being better than pharloom is a low bar and not the one being employed

[sinful nimbus]

The narrative doesn't frame him as wrong

[stray grove]

It also doesn’t frame him as being very reliable when it comes ton shit like this

[sinful nimbus]

PK's kingdom wasn't all sunshine and rainbows

[stray grove]

He’s literally an armchair philosopher

[spark valve]

I mean he's right it was always destined for ruin that's just not why

[sinful nimbus]

We have a piece of text saying it was run by greedy rich people why would they put that in the game if it was wrong

[stray grove]

No but it makes no sense to attribute most of its shortcomings to PK

[sinful nimbus]

He's a god

[stray grove]

He did what he could but shit like racism and classism will always exist

[sinful nimbus]

He could've brought about systemic change but he didn't

[stray grove]

He did bring about systemic change

[sinful nimbus]

He wasn't a very active ruler

[stray grove]

Ok?

[sinful nimbus]

Not to its economy

[stray grove]

His kingdom was still by all accounts a pretty good place to live

The economy was fine

[sinful nimbus]

No it wasn't

[stray grove]

It’s not like the other half of CoT is a slum lmao

[sinful nimbus]

Strawman

[limpid summit]

According to whom

The Queen?

[stray grove]

So what’s the issue then

[limpid summit]

The most loyal knight in his army

[sinful nimbus]

It was run by greedy rich people

[stray grove]

People led perfectly normal lives

[stray fog]

We don't have many kingdoms for comparison

A utopia might exist out there and we'd never know

[stray grove]

Ok?

[spark valve]

for the economy to be a huge problem that would imply there are huge issues for quality of life on the west side which there don't seem to have been

[limpid summit]

“Everywhere else MUST be worse”

[sinful nimbus]

You don't seem like a very good person if you think that's okay

[stray grove]

The greedy rich people weren’t necessarily living at the expense of the not greedy not rich people

[limpid summit]

Old stag mentions that very little resources were sent from CoT outwards

[stray fog]

The greedy rich people always do that

[stray grove]

Hallownest was prosperous

There was enough wealth to go around

[spark valve]

yeah it's the fucking population center???

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah TC just put in a line about Hallownest being run by greedy morons and didn't mean for that to have any implications about its quality of life

OK lmao

[limpid summit]

Tons of people live in nyc does that mean scranton pennsylvania shouldn’t get any resources from nyc

[spark valve]

star you've seen underworks if tc wanted to communicate bad standards of living they could

[sinful nimbus]

Funny you mention that

[stray grove]

But there just aren’t Hallownest visibly and is repeatedly noted to have had good infrastructure

[spark valve]

it means more is gonna go one way than the other

[limpid summit]

While menderbugs were living off scraps the fat cats in the upper districts were covering themselves in Geo

[limpid summit]

What’s the point of that dialogue

Is old stag just dumb

[spark valve]

I can't believe the place with the most resource consumption would have more resources delivered to it

[stray fog]

What was the exact dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

The cost of so much grandeur... Did I peer closely enough into the foundations of my own kingdom?
Hornet on the Underworks

[spark valve]

she's stupid

[limpid summit]

I remember this station well. A common trip it was. Goods from all over the kingdom were transported here.
Not a lot was sent back the other way though.

I don’t think the takeaway here is

“Yeah there’s lots of people”

That goes without saying

[sinful nimbus]

You can think its stupid but the implication is there

[limpid summit]

I think it’s fundamentally flawed for the Watcher to literally be unable to look within at his own caste

[stray grove]

Like even if you weren’t rich Hallownest was a good place to live it had healthcare it has good public transport it had a bustling population center it had agriculture it even had automated golems in order to improve the lives of manual laborers lmao

[limpid summit]

Healthcare??

[sinful nimbus]

HEALTHCARE?

[limpid summit]

Soul spas

[sinful nimbus]

Bro just making stuff up 🥀

[limpid summit]

Brooo

[stray grove]

Yeah Hallownest had good healthcare

[limpid summit]

It had agriculture

[stray grove]

Yeah it did

It had farms we just don’t see them

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think farming gruzzer meat is very ethical

[stray fog]

Lmao

[stray grove]

Based on what

[frosty gate]

What are you? Peta?

[stray grove]

We don’t see the conditions they lived in

[limpid summit]

Hey Lois

[sinful nimbus]

They have plenty of bugs to use for more ethical meat but they went for the gruzzers

[frosty gate]

🐴

[stray grove]

Like?

[sinful nimbus]

Are you fr

[spark valve]

fuck are you on about

why wouldn't they use gruzzers

[stray grove]

What are you on about gruzzers are literally meat animals selectively bred to be dumb as fuck

[sinful nimbus]

Its a kingdom full of bugs dawg that would've produced far less suffering than going for the cows

[stray fog]

Braindead bug 1 vs Braindead bug 2

[spark valve]

they are the cows??

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that's why its unethical

[spark valve]

they're animals

[stray grove]

The cows are bugs

[spark valve]

why wouldn't they kill the animals for food

[sinful nimbus]

They aren't bug bugs dawg they're cows

[stray grove]

What do you think they should’ve used instead

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/anton-ego-gif-9709800945809453150

[sinful nimbus]

Mass farming bugs would produce meat in a more ethical way

[stray grove]

That’s what they did lmao

[stray fog]

Why not gruzzers

[spark valve]

yapping

[stray grove]

Anyway Hallownest was a good place to live sybau Star

It wasn’t a perfect society but it was pretty good

The issues with it aren’t realistically things PK could just wave his hand to get rid of

[limpid summit]

Just be a fat fucking red slob bug

[stray fog]

Bro is the literal king and a god

[limpid summit]

Bro if a god king wanted to stop racism I’m sure he could

[stray grove]

What’s next are you going to bring up the completely baseless institution of maggot slavery

[limpid summit]

You’re making excuses because it doesn’t seem realistic to us

[sinful nimbus]

No because he has no powers

[spark valve]

star some mantles can remain untaken

[limpid summit]

Well that’s a bit much but I do think that people give him a lot of credit

I don’t think he could fire lasers or do other crazy things

[sinful nimbus]

He could've shredded every maggot hategroup with soul daggers according to you

[spark valve]

ok but senseless violence isn't a good solution to social problems??

[stray grove]

The maggot hategroups you just made up

Also great solution

[spark valve]

you can't just kill people until racism ends

[stray grove]

Just kill every racist person

That’ll solve the problem

[limpid summit]

Fishman island

[sinful nimbus]

If god came down and beat up some racists I wouldn't question it

[spark valve]

it also wouldn't change anything

[stray fog]

What even is this conversation 😭

[limpid summit]

I think the tablets about the last kingdom and no world beyond are a little weird

[frosty gate]

I was gonna ask the same but I decided to keep out

[limpid summit]

If PK had world sense could he not have just waited until it was pertinent to make them

Imagine if the US had signs built for hundreds of years in the future

We are the only country

[stray grove]

Maggots being discriminated against on an individual basis is not something PK could have realistically dealt with

[sinful nimbus]

They probably existed

[stray grove]

That just means shit like them not getting good jobs

[stray fog]

Its just propaganda

[sinful nimbus]

But I thought his entire thing was education

[stray grove]

There weren’t maggot lynchings or maggot slaves that’s not what the entry says

[sinful nimbus]

"You taught" and all that

[limpid summit]

A ruler doesn’t need to propagandize

[sinful nimbus]

Could he not teach about maggot racism and why its bad?

[spark valve]

yet another hollow knight fan falls to the true final boss, media literacy

[limpid summit]

Expert defense once again

I am floored

[stray grove]

He probably did bruh

[spark valve]

bro what

[stray fog]

Best to keep your subjects misinformed so that they don't leave you

[stray grove]

Yeah Star education is the problem

[sinful nimbus]

You made that up dawg

[spark valve]

it's not misinformation

[stray grove]

Just educate all the racists

They’ll stop being racist

[limpid summit]

It’s not the truth

[spark valve]

leaving the kingdom does relinquish the mind it grants

[stray grove]

That works

Good one

[sinful nimbus]

Well since violence is out of the picture

[stray fog]

Im talking about the last civilization part

[limpid summit]

He literally could have just said that

[sinful nimbus]

Why are you so keen on defending PK for not stopping the maggot racism

[stray grove]

There likely was an education system yes

He granted them sapience everyone knew how to read write and do basic arithmetic that’s more than what most modern societies can say

[limpid summit]

???

Pull up the Hallownest literacy rate lore tablet

[sinful nimbus]

But not everyone knew that maggots were equal so moot point

[spark valve]

I mean it depends on if the tablet tech in pass is mental magic

[stray fog]

Top 10 #sk-lore conversations of all time

[limpid summit]

Who’s to say the husks weren’t duds

[stray grove]

Oh my god

[stray fog]

Hallownest racism and literacy rate

[spark valve]

star shit can be imperfect but still a net good

[sinful nimbus]

But its better than Pharloom so clearly racism can't be stopped

[stray grove]

Yeah why didn’t PK just tell everyone the maggots were equal

[limpid summit]

Elderbug is genuinely stupid

[stray grove]

That would’ve solved the issue surely

Is he stupid?

[sinful nimbus]

Not fostering racism is the bare minimum

PK failed

[limpid summit]

Declaration of maggot independence

[spark valve]

claiming he actively fostered it is wild

[stray grove]

ONE group was MAYBE discriminated against on an individual basis it’s not that deep bruh

[sinful nimbus]

They were generally looked down upon dawg everyone in the kingdom was a raging racist 😭 🙏

fym maybe dawg

denying maggot racism is crazy

[limpid summit]

Civil rights acts does not miraculously change the minds of racists that is never the point

[stray grove]

Maggots weren’t getting lynched there was no institutionalized maggot slavery some of them maybe couldn’t get good jobs who cares they also can’t differentiate between dead and sleeping

[spark valve]

I mean it was systemic but systemic doesn't necessarily mean institutionalized by pk

[limpid summit]

They cement antiracism in society so people don’t grow up on it anymore

Racism is taught

[sinful nimbus]

Oh because slavery is the only form of racism thanks for clearing that up

[stray grove]

I mean we don’t know the extent to which maggots were discriminated against

[limpid summit]

If I were to go into Hallownest and interview a maggot right now what would it say

[stray grove]

But the phrasing implies there was no institution

[sinful nimbus]

I agree I never claimed otherwise

[stray grove]

So what did you want PK to do

[limpid summit]

If they try to bargain for their life, just ignore them. They have nothing to offer.
Poor, marginalized class

[stray grove]

“Be nice guys”

[sinful nimbus]

Educate people on why racism is bad, crack down on racists

[limpid summit]

Are you stupid

[spark valve]

this is FUCKING HUNTER

[sinful nimbus]

Not that difficult for a god, right?

[stray grove]

Crack down on racists

It’s a systemic issue bruh

[limpid summit]

He would take money

[sinful nimbus]

💀

[winter scaffold]

Maybe

[limpid summit]

Why would he say they have nothing to offer if there was stuff he allows

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe he can enact systemic change then dawg he's the godking

[spark valve]

bro thinks hunter would take cash payoffs

[limpid summit]

Maggot Rights Act?

[stray grove]

Maggots were citizens they had rights

[limpid summit]

Holy shit

[sinful nimbus]

they had rights they just can't get jobs 🥀

[stray grove]

They had the same rights as everyone else

[ornate pier]

Biggest glazer in the server?

[stray grove]

Employers were probably not legally allowed to discriminate against them on the basis of their race

It’s almost like that doesn’t fucking matter

[spark valve]

there are limitations to what policy alone can do

[sudden mirage]

Now I know why I don’t check these lore channels more

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah I guess racism cant be fought really

[limpid summit]

A part of this comes from opposing parties that attempt to undo what previous lawmakers have done though

It’s literally the same guy the whole time

[stray grove]

It can be fought but it is very hard to just eliminate systemic racism

[spark valve]

not by one guy no matter who he is

[ornate pier]

I mean yeah

[sinful nimbus]

OK I didn't claim it was easy

[stray grove]

Hallownest was still better than the vast majority of societies in this regard

[sinful nimbus]

I guess PK was too weak to do hard things?

[stray grove]

PK irrespective of his powers can’t be held as the only person responsible for that

That’s just stupid

[sinful nimbus]

He's God

[limpid summit]

Unitary executive theory

[sinful nimbus]

He also could've gotten supporters

[stray grove]

He’s not omnipotent

Supporters?

What are you talking about

[limpid summit]

Maggot rights supporters

[stray grove]

THEY HAD RIGHTS

[spark valve]

surely it's not like people will just twist religion to suit their ends

[sinful nimbus]

If there was a maggot activist group led by God himself it would surely gain traction

[stray grove]

Policy alone can’t solve everything

[sinful nimbus]

You can't do that when God himself is actively talking to you vro 💔

[limpid summit]

No but it allows for great leaps and bounds to be taken

[spark valve]

sure you can

[stray grove]

Ok

[limpid summit]

Thanks for acknowledging my point

[stray grove]

What policy do you think PK could have passed that would end racism

[limpid summit]

What is this bro

[sinful nimbus]

Also he had an eternity to go about this change you would expect him not to care about how hard it was

[limpid summit]

For the purpose of this argument why do I have to specifically outline a policy like this

[stray grove]

Hallownest made great progress

[limpid summit]

He literally was going to rule forever

[spark valve]

bold of you to assume he wasn't doing anything at all

[stray grove]

It was a functional society were most people were treated equally

[limpid summit]

He was playing around with void

[stray grove]

Maybe given more time the issue of systemic racism could be eradicated

[limpid summit]

And giving dangerous void creatures to his subjects to play with

Good job PK

[stray grove]

But he didn’t have all the time in the world and he wasn’t omnipotent

He did good

[limpid summit]

He wasn’t?

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah dude lets build a transportation system exclusively for the ultra-greedy-wealthy instead of solving that racism problem!

[limpid summit]

Well he had world sense

[stray grove]

I mean the trams were probably experimental

[sinful nimbus]

And lets put that transportation in the middle of wild animal territory and send all my workers to their death

But its better than Pharloom right?

[limpid summit]

You want to get to Resting Grounds to see your dead grandpa? Too bad you better be tight with PK

[stray grove]

To begin with they were only accessible to the ultra wealthy but I doubt PK invested that much time and money into them to just leave them at that

[spark valve]

sis LIFETIME passes were expensive as fuck that doesn't mean people couldn't pay for one time rides 💔

[stray grove]

In time it’s entirely possible they’d be open to the general public

Also it’s only the lifetime passes that were expensive

[sinful nimbus]

Baseless speculation

[limpid summit]

Are we given any indication that the trams were less than a subscription service

[stray grove]

I mean the cheap public transport was good anyway

Trams were a gimmick

[spark valve]

the stag is offended by them as an attempt to replace stags

[stray grove]

PK wanted the hive and deepnest to come over

[limpid summit]

Just don’t carry anything delicate

The stag can only carry like two people

[sinful nimbus]

Machinery phasing out real human jobs

[limpid summit]

You’d have to wait hours for a ride

[stray grove]

Which wouldn’t make sense if they were only going to be open to the ultra rich

[spark valve]

stags are a bad system that should be replaced

[stray grove]

Stags are a bad system

[spark valve]

or at least added to

[stray grove]

Replacing them was very sensible

PK did good

[limpid summit]

So he attempted to make a laboratory of democracy

Why limit it to the fat useless rich guys

[stray grove]

Who said anything about democracy

[spark valve]

trams are an important function to have capacity is important for public transportation

[sinful nimbus]

How much money was dumped into building the Queen's Station again

[stray grove]

It wasn’t a democracy lmao

[limpid summit]

It’s an expression

[spark valve]

you can have both 😭

[sinful nimbus]

Not a flex 💔

[spark valve]

you can have taxis and subways

[sinful nimbus]

Look its messed up to force a single job upon a single species

[stray grove]

I mean when the king is a literal deity it’s hard to argue he doesn’t have the divine right to rule

[limpid summit]

You can have taxis and the Elon Musk hyperlink would be a better analogy

[stray grove]

The kingdom literally can’t exist without him

[sinful nimbus]

It shows that PK maybe didn't care about the rights of other species!

[stray grove]

And he was the most qualified person to rule anyway

[sinful nimbus]

divine right to rule 💀

[spark valve]

no???

[limpid summit]

Mandate of Heaven

[sinful nimbus]

bro think he tolkien

[sudden mirage]

Question about Hallownest

How were the bigger bugs meant to get around without getting stuck

[stray grove]

It’s a bit different when you’re a literal deity lmao

[sudden mirage]

Some of the doorways between areas are pretty tiny compared to a lot of the enemies

[limpid summit]

Other entrances to stuff we don’t see

[sinful nimbus]

His decisions were flawed!

[limpid summit]

Or entrances are wider than we see

[stray grove]

Most of them weren’t actually

[sinful nimbus]

He clearly couldn't rule all by himself he wasn't even active in Hallownest lmao

[stray grove]

Actually I can’t think of a single decision he made that was bad in the moment

[sinful nimbus]

Failed Tramway 💀

[spark valve]

he didn't rule all by himself some stuff was delegated to his knights

[stray grove]

That was actually pretty good

[sudden mirage]

Isn’t the fatherly bond with the hollow knight thing what doomed his kingdom

[spark valve]

no

[sinful nimbus]

Oh my god

[stray grove]

Failed Tramway was a great idea

[sinful nimbus]

Is this trolling

[limpid summit]

Giving THK world sense is punching down

[terse warren]

sunk cost

[stray grove]

He probably couldn’t have predicted that it would end badly

Or rather didn’t

[spark valve]

failed tramway would've been a good idea if he assigned defenders

[sinful nimbus]

Are you stupid

He's a wyrm

[limpid summit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-American_Highway

[terse warren]

future sight?

[sinful nimbus]

Change your nickname rn vro you don't know what you're talking about

[stray grove]

Also this is the only failure you can think of during his entire reign lmao

[limpid summit]

This highway is cut in half by a strip of land overrun by violent gangs

Imagine if people just decided to built the road anyway

[sudden mirage]

The hollow knight was a pretty major one

[limpid summit]

That’s failed tramway

[sinful nimbus]

What do you think the lives lost and ecosystems harmed were negligible?

[stray grove]

Yeah some workers died in a freak accident it’s a tragedy maybe you could say PK was somewhat negligent

[sinful nimbus]

As he's consistently characterized?

[terse warren]

what ecosystem smh

[stray grove]

No?

[sinful nimbus]

Deepnest

I don't see any wildlife crossings

[ornate pier]

No it makes sense for a glazer of this caliber

[limpid summit]

The man killed his own children to preserve random bugs he didn’t know it’s valid to call out rash decisions of his that endanger said bugs’ lives

[stray grove]

What happened to Deepnest’s ecosystem

Did PK commit environmental terrorism

[sinful nimbus]

No wildlife crossings

[stray grove]

Shut up bruh

[terse warren]

that's a children's tale smh we all know it's not a real place this is slander

[sinful nimbus]

GOOD argument!

[stray grove]

Sybau

[spark valve]

the trams are suspended and have you even played the game

[limpid summit]

Woah woah now

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that'll surely help the flying bugs that surround the area

[limpid summit]

Calm down

[spark valve]

the fuckass mawlurk room is in the tramway tunnel they're fine

[stray grove]

“No wildlife crossings” 😭

[stray grove]

He wasn’t omniscient

[limpid summit]

Why did PK even build that tram

[spark valve]

the wildlife seems fine

[sinful nimbus]

So he lied to the shrumals?

[stray grove]

Are you claiming PK foresaw the failure of the failed tramway and just sent some workers to their deaths

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah no one is riding the trams anymore 🥀

[spark valve]

hot spring in deepnest as a vacation destination

[limpid summit]

Why would he build a tram from ancient basin to the bowels of lower dangerous deepnest and another one to the unaligned hive in a pit of acid???

[stray grove]

He never told them he was conscience

[limpid summit]

The lower tram system is genuinely fucking stupid

[terse warren]

"random bugs he didn't know" do you know what the word subject means 🥀

[sinful nimbus]

Did the shrumals not inform him of why they were accepting his rule lmao

They clearly feel spiteful of him

[stray grove]

I mean he wanted to establish relations with the spider tribe it’s presumably the same reason there’s a tram outside the hive

[sinful nimbus]

HE CAN TELEPORT

[limpid summit]

Why would he build the tram???

He doesn’t need the tram

[sinful nimbus]

WHY DID HE BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE PREEMPTIVELY

[stray grove]

It wasn’t for him

[sinful nimbus]

who was it for dawg

[stray grove]

Trams were going to replace stags in the long term anyway

[limpid summit]

Either he built it before he began negotiations with Vespa (ridiculous) or after (pointless)

[sinful nimbus]

Also there's no way the trams were in the kingdoms infancy when the hive told him to piss off

He clearly didn't respect their wishes

[limpid summit]

Why would he build infrastructure in undesirable areas

[stray grove]

I mean it’s not pointless

[spark valve]

or it was a condition of the deal with herrah for hornet or whatever it's stupid that 3q is canon but it is

[sinful nimbus]

Did vro really think Vespa would become a dreamer

[stray grove]

I mean it was a good deal

[sinful nimbus]

Crazy work

[stray grove]

Vespa was being unreasonable

[sinful nimbus]

Vespa told him to GTFO

He should've listened

[stray grove]

And he respected that

[sinful nimbus]

No he didn't

[stray grove]

He did leave the hive alone lmao

What are you yapping about

[sinful nimbus]

Then why'd he ask Vespa to become a dreamer

[limpid summit]

“My King! The Soul Master is killing your subjects by the hundreds!”
“Another 20 billion to the Kingdom’s Edge tram”

Genuinely evidence of money laundering

[stray grove]

… she told him to gtfo after that

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think the vessel project was in the kingdoms infancy 💀

[limpid summit]

Why was the tram still operational

[stray grove]

They were facing a crisis like no other so he approached her as a fellow ruler in order to come up with a solution to the problem that threatened both their kingdoms

[limpid summit]

He should have fully dismantled it

[stray grove]

Why

[sinful nimbus]

Its actually dangerous to build infrastructure to KE because then bugs would learn the truth

[limpid summit]

Inefficient use of resources why would he build a tram from bumfuck to bumfuck

[stray grove]

He’d already invested time and money into it

[sinful nimbus]

FOR WHAT

[limpid summit]

???

For fucking nothing

[spark valve]

he doesn't have anything to hide over there

[stray grove]

I mean people went to KE

[limpid summit]

Did he expect Distant Village to be a tourist trap

[stray grove]

idk what you’re claiming

People did go to KE lmao

He wasn’t hiding it

[limpid summit]

Yeah just avoid the giant killer centipedes and the faces from your past

Through King’s Station

And the colosseum

From upward

[sinful nimbus]

Something kept the COT bugs at bay from expanding into KE

[limpid summit]

Not next to the Hive

[spark valve]

literally has signs there

[stray grove]

You know when the kingdom was actually functional that was probably less of an issue

[sinful nimbus]

Also there's a dangerous murderer locked up in KE

[limpid summit]

Bro just typing shit

[stray grove]

Do you think everyone who ever went to Deepnest just had to deal with the untold dangers lurking there

There was probably a well maintained route

That people used

[sinful nimbus]

"well maintained"

Dude there was a Nosk picking off workers one by one 💀

[stray grove]

Oh my god

[limpid summit]

50% of bugs would die

[spark valve]

this is generations after the kingdom fell no shit the wilds reclaimed it??

[sinful nimbus]

There's no sign of former infrastructure there

[limpid summit]

Do you mean to say that the path from the tram to the hot spring was an idyllic yellow brick road

[stray grove]

Skull

[spark valve]

literally a marked path and it has artificial lights

[stray grove]

There was probably a well maintained public path yes

[sinful nimbus]

OK wtv

[hushed viper]

Fun Silksong Lore Fact:
Apart from making Pharlids into Weavers, the silk from GMS also has Estrogen therefore all weavers are women!!!!

[stray grove]

It’s literally marked

[sinful nimbus]

The Nosk is still an issue

[stray grove]

You can kill Nosks

[sinful nimbus]

No one did cuh

I mean dawg

[stray grove]

There’s one there now this is GENERATIONS after the kingdom fell

[sinful nimbus]

joker 🥀

[limpid summit]

TK only kills Nosk because the Nosk we fight is infected and stupid

[stray grove]

Nosks aren’t hard to kill

[spark valve]

so true

[stray grove]

PK could have had a few guards stationed there

[hushed viper]

makes you realise how different Nosk may've been before it was infected

[stray grove]

The spider tribe might’ve also dealt with them

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think the WORKERS were up to kill a Nosk???

[limpid summit]

Nosks are ambush predators that shapeshift?

[sinful nimbus]

He didn't

[stray grove]

Well the kingdom is dead now so obviously there’s nobody there anymore

[hushed viper]

oh yea never thought of that actually

[sinful nimbus]

Did bro not see the corpses leading up to Nosk's arena

[limpid summit]

Look at galiens big husky ass

[stray grove]

Are you seriously suggesting despite evidence of a public footpath that PK would be incapable of dealing with the nosks

[limpid summit]

If he’s not gonna do anything what will random guards do

[sinful nimbus]

There are parasitized husks wandering about 🥀

What did PK do to prevent corpse creepers

[stray grove]

… the kingdom is in RUIN

[hushed viper]

make whatever doing that go extinct?

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah??? Clearly Nosk picked off some workers dawg

[hushed viper]

literally put a bounty on them

[limpid summit]

“There’s a shapeshifting predator picking off workers”
“Give em a few of these”

[stray grove]

Oh my god

[spark valve]

is it his fault if some people decide to wander off into the dangerous wilderness

[sinful nimbus]

Nosk killed stalking devouts

[spark valve]

deepnest hiking has risks

[limpid summit]

Yes it’s his fault for attempting to carve out a place in the dangerous wilderness

[stray grove]

Obviously if idiots like Galien wander off the MARKED LIGHTED PATH they might die

[limpid summit]

Nosk packed up everyone

[sinful nimbus]

What is he going to send Ogrim there??? 💀

[limpid summit]

Never ducked a fade

[sinful nimbus]

Dude

[limpid summit]

Well I was avoiding that

Ogrim would annihilate the nosks

[stray grove]

I mean he could but you wouldn’t need him there for it to be safe

[sinful nimbus]

Its as if Nosk psychologically manipulates its victims!

[limpid summit]

But why didn’t he

He gave his knights way too much agency

[spark valve]

he could've sent a knight but they may have had bigger issues to deal with

[sinful nimbus]

Me when I see my grandma in the middle of the woods but I have to go kill myself trying to construct a tram in the middle of nowhere

[stray grove]

“Hey guys don’t leave the path even if you see something in the distance and report it to one of the guards if you do”

Also they’d just kill any nearby Nosks

[sinful nimbus]

Clearly no such warnings were issued and if they were they weren't effective

[stray grove]

You’d have to go hiking to encounter one

[sinful nimbus]

Nosk's lair is right next to the spa dawg

[limpid summit]

I still don’t see the point of this

[stray grove]

Do you think Nosk was terrorizing the marked path while it was actively maintained

Nosk is there NOW

[sinful nimbus]

Its victims could've been on a work break (Assuming PK was generous enough to even give his workers that)

[stray grove]

The kingdom has been in ruin for AGES

[sinful nimbus]

There are husk corpses leading up to its lair genius

Nosk is pretty old

[stray grove]

Why are they going for work breaks off site bruh

[sinful nimbus]

Nosk is near the safe area

[spark valve]

do you even remember where the nosk is relative to the tramway construction site????

[sinful nimbus]

Nosk LURES its victims

[sinful nimbus]

yea???

[stray grove]

What are you on about genuinely

[spark valve]

😭

[sinful nimbus]

bro is right next to the hotspring 🥀

Why didn't Nosk eat the nearby grub

[stray grove]

The guards would notice any suspicious activity and kill the nosks that showed up near the path also how would Nosk lure someone off the populated well maintained guarded marked and lighted path if they were warned not to go fucking hiking

Don’t be stupid

[sinful nimbus]

What guards

[limpid summit]

He likes the thrill of the hunt

[sinful nimbus]

You made up the guards protecting them

[stray grove]

The ones who were there when the path was being actively maintained

[sinful nimbus]

There are no guard corpses or anything

[sinful nimbus]

Fanon

[spark valve]

surely it's not like there are other roads in the kingdom that function with this understanding

[sinful nimbus]

If there were guards there would be no corpses in Nosk's lair

[limpid summit]

When I brave the horrors of Deepnest to go to some random fucking hot spring for some reason but I see the face of my long dead wife

I really don’t see why there even needed to be infrastructure there

Why couldn’t he just

Dig down??

[spark valve]

it's part of the ambience you uncultured fucking loser

[stray grove]

Yeah all you gotta do is not be an idiot and follow it OFF THE MARKED SAFE ZONE

[sinful nimbus]

No no you don't see PK was generous enough to protect his workers from the Nosk so they could die to a Dirtcarver while constructing a useless tram that leads nowhere

[limpid summit]

Dark tourism is a terrible thing that ruins ecosystems and perpetuates stereotypes

[sinful nimbus]

He's so kind to his workers ❤️‍🩹

[limpid summit]

Speaking of useless tram that leads nowhere WHY DID HE BUILD TO KE

[spark valve]

but it's not like poverty stuff or racism it's a place with dangerous animals

[sinful nimbus]

He was literally trying to piss off the stags

[stray grove]

The tram isn’t useless and doesn’t lead nowhere stop making shit up

[spark valve]

and they didn't build extensively in deepnest

[sinful nimbus]

Where's it lead genius

[limpid summit]

Well yeah naturally

[stray grove]

To the hot spring that literally had a marked lighted path leading to it

[limpid summit]

They got killed

Because PK was stupid

[spark valve]

no u

[sinful nimbus]

No the hotspring leads to the tram

[stray grove]

…

So true!

[sinful nimbus]

Where does the tram go dawg

Were people going to the rich people gardens through Deepnest?

[limpid summit]

Look we can armchair explain all we want but bottom line is these guys probably had a different outlook

“Why did our omnipotent god king send us here to die?”

[spark valve]

failed tramway could've been a route to distant village

[stray grove]

It was an accident

[sinful nimbus]

Wonder what Mask Maker would think of all the traffic, did he ask them? He doesn't seem to think very favorably of Hallownest's expansion

[limpid summit]

Bro he already MADE a route to distant village

[stray grove]

Also the failed tramway leads to the affiliated spider tribe

[limpid summit]

Why didn’t he just make a secret stagway in the FIRST place

[spark valve]

nobody cares about mask maker fuck mask maker

[stray grove]

That station wasn’t public

[sinful nimbus]

Some foresight

[limpid summit]

It might have been

[stray grove]

Also he was trying to get rid of the stagways

[limpid summit]

Eventually

[stray grove]

So moot point

The stagways are bad

[spark valve]

making shit up 💔

[limpid summit]

The stag only doesn’t recognize it because it was never a public project in early Hallownest

Not because it was always meant to be some sort of clandestine supply run

The palace was a public place

[stray grove]

🥀

[spark valve]

the palace was a public place but the fuckin secret supply route wasn't

[limpid summit]

To distant village?

Why did he make like an actual stag station that looked like passerby could use it instead of just a big old tunnel

Matter of fact how did he even make that

[spark valve]

fym how

[limpid summit]

Bro the failed tramway literally did not need to happen

[sinful nimbus]

Did PK have a personal stag

[stray grove]

It did

[limpid summit]

No he probably rode a maggot

[spark valve]

a pale stag perhaps

[stray grove]

Holy peak

[sinful nimbus]

So true

[spark valve]

stag says the king never rode the stagways though

but he could teleport so

[sinful nimbus]

so liek ???????

This lore garbage bruh

[limpid summit]

Couldn’t he just

Grab the silk

[stray grove]

Look I think at some point we have to admit that even though Hallownest wasn’t perfect the fact that you have to go searching for and outright make up issues with it should be evidence enough that it was overall a pretty functional society

[spark valve]

he has better things to be doing than playing pack mule just because he can teleport

[limpid summit]

https://tenor.com/view/goodbye-friends-sacrifice-goku-dragon-ball-gif-16236074470230069436

[sinful nimbus]

Hidden Station was added in Hidden Dreams 💀

This furthers the anti-DLC agenda

[sinful nimbus]

Like ending maggot slavery

[limpid summit]

When a king commits atrocities (in a vacuum but undeniably not a great thing to just do) to save his citizens you’ll forgive us if we hold him to the highest expectation when it comes to protecting them

[stray grove]

Egg and Watch thank you for being polite and arguing in good faith but I think ultimately we should all accept this is largely baseless

Let’s agree that Hallownest was a good place to live

[sinful nimbus]

I was polite?

[stray grove]

It wasn’t perfect it could have been better

[limpid summit]

Do you think Hornet ever used the station to visit Midwife

Is Midwife a groupie

[spark valve]

'good faith'

looks inside
making up nonsense 💔

[stray grove]

But the King did a good job

[stray grove]

I’m trying to reach a compromise here

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway I genuinely think Nosk was picking off workers dawg

[spark valve]

compromise is for the weak

[stray grove]

Egg and Watch seem like rational people

I don’t want to offend them

[spark valve]

if that was the case they would have menderbug hats

[limpid summit]

Tell me if I was a ruler this wouldn’t be the dumbest public works project ever

No matter where it is on the timeline

[sinful nimbus]

Not on their work break

If they were random rich tourists or wtv they'd be purple

[spark valve]

We don't see it completed so we don't know where it'd lead

[stray grove]

Why are the workers leaving the work site for their lunch break

That’s on them bruh

[limpid summit]

What

[spark valve]

the menderbugs in the break area still have the hats

[sinful nimbus]

shut UP

I guess we can't have cool environmental storytelling anymore

[limpid summit]

Dude where is it supposed to go

Hallownest bay?

[stray grove]

Distant village

[limpid summit]

To the RIGHT

WHY is there a tram there

[stray grove]

Does it matter where it was going to lead

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest is a globe Kingdom's Edge wraps around to Distant Village

[stray grove]

Oh you’re talking about the KE one

That was probably a Hive thing

[sinful nimbus]

I guess it'd be a cylinder

[stray grove]

3Q is canon

[sinful nimbus]

SHUT UP

[limpid summit]

I mean he’d have to build it right through Nosk’s lair

I guess we should be glad he died

[stray grove]

Hornet could get the tram from Deepnest to the Hive

[spark valve]

no????

[limpid summit]

You think he built that tram for Hornet

[stray grove]

And be home in time for afternoon tea with Midwife

[spark valve]

hollow knight fans are blind

[sinful nimbus]

It was in front of us this entire time if you think about it

[stray grove]

I mean the spiders

[sinful nimbus]

Obligatory

[limpid summit]

The tip of the cavern would scrape the lake

[stray grove]

That Hornet was chill with Vespa implies the spiders might’ve been on good terms with the bees

PK maybe made that tram as part of the Deepnest deal

[sinful nimbus]

No Hornet is probably a bee slur for intruders

[stray grove]

With the hopes that there would be a further hive deal

[stray grove]

Watch I’ve tried to maintain decorum but please could you stop the baseless speculation

[spark valve]

no no let her cook with this one insulting hornet is based

plus it would mirror her mother's title

[stray grove]

Fine

[limpid summit]

So he’s investing valuable capital and endangering his own citizens to benefit allied groups

🤔🤔🤔

they’re skilled with steel

[spark valve]

what did I say about compromise being weakness? you failed the test, I'm disappointed in you

[limpid summit]

why couldn’t they have just done something

[spark valve]

his alliances would be mutually beneficial in the long term for all parties

look at the one with spiders for instance, he gets spell components but the entire civilization also benefitted from access to silk parchments

[stray grove]

Deepnest also got an heir which is something the Weavers would otherwise have been incapable of producing and in the long term the continued survival of both nations is something PK had the best shot at achieving

And helping people is his thing even if it’s a worse deal for him (not saying this was but that’s how he rolls)

Like the Shrumals got protection for basically free

I’m not sure what the moths contributed to society other than uh fucking dooming the kingdom but they also got to bask in his light

[spark valve]

they were the gravekeepers for the kingdom

at minimum

[stray grove]

They were probably the spiritual leaders or whatever

[spark valve]

could've also been like spiritual counselors yeah

[stray grove]

Also essence magic is cool

[spark valve]

reputed for delving into dreams

[sinful nimbus]

Y'know RG has a special shaman room

We have had two shots for TC to flesh out the shamans' relationship with another powerful magical tribe

This lore sucks

[spark valve]

the shaman is weird

[whole holly]

yeah this is weird

Mosskin and Mothkin were created in similar way right, both from essence/dreams

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[limpid summit]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

Also in light of SS the shamans have dream magic so like 😭

[whole holly]

oh, yeah, red memory

[spark valve]

tbf they were always aware

[whole holly]

i wonder why Team Cherry treats Essence magic and Silk magic overlapping and both are given same Dream/Memory access ability

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but them being able to break the veil is new

Which is a cool addition I don't mind

[spark valve]

iffy if they even really are in the same way as like dn

they're sending hornet into her own memories

[stray grove]

Soul magic can break the veil

[spark valve]

ofc

also like

[frigid belfry]

silk is just a more refined usage of soul

im sure soul and essence are related

[stray grove]

They didn’t just give the shamans essence powers out of the blue yeah

They always had magic that could conceivably be used in that way and some implied understanding of dreams

[whole holly]

yeah, they are but Soul is life force, Essence is Essence

[whole holly]

what veil? of dream realm and waking world?

[stray grove]

Also their charms contain ancestral knowledge and shit

That’s like

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[stray grove]

Basically memories

Essence adjacent

[sinful nimbus]

Memory Locket

[whole holly]

i guess both Soul and Essence play part in dream/memories

[whole holly]

Memories don't outright seem to be dream realm, Dream Realm is more interconnected, maybe Memories are subset of it, some simpler version of minds memory

[stray grove]

Also like pale focus works on both soul and essence shaman spiral focus could conceivably function similarly

They absorb soul from their surroundings they also absorb emotions and memories and shit which they use to make spells and even store the knowledge of their ancestors

[whole holly]

wait is that what we are calling it, "Pale Focus"?

[sinful nimbus]

They should've been song wizards man

[stray grove]

It seems like the most accurate term

[sinful nimbus]

Chilling in places with naturally high resonance or wtv

[stray grove]

It’s a type of focus that’s specific to the pale king and his offspring

[sinful nimbus]

Bellhart and the First Shrine would fit the bill

[stray grove]

I guess we could call it Wyrm focus

Since there are other pale beings

[whole holly]

yeah, unless WL can focus

[stray grove]

She probably can but it’s not necessarily the same kind of thing

Focus as an ability used by TK (and Hornet’s Bind) is a demiwyrm thing

Yeah Weavers can Bind but Hornet’s specific Bind is a little different

Also TC said it’s similar to Focus and in HK she says she and TK draw strength from similar source I don’t know why Weavers got an upscale

Every soul mage in the series does the same exact shit it seems

TC are creatively bankrupt

[sinful nimbus]

Not my goat salubra

[limpid summit]

Grubs were our last hope for a new sort of magic

[sinful nimbus]

Or the grubs

[limpid summit]

Then they made shaman crest

[stray grove]

Grubs are also soul shit

[whole holly]

i mean Hornet's and First Sinner's Bind is visibly same

[limpid summit]

Howling Wraiths is grub song

The shaman killed the grubs and harvested their soul to keep her voice nice

Look at them they’re grubs

[whole holly]

Salubra, Shade Lord ender

[stray grove]

Actually she also does the same thing

Sylphsong exists sorry

Sylphean Slugs are just Soul users

[sinful nimbus]

Sylphsong doesn't conjure a sylphean slug

Also ofc they're soul users you specified soul mages 💔

[stray grove]

Yeah but it’s called that because the weavers based it on their song

[whole holly]

Moss Druid is also Soul related when you think about Druid's Eyes

[stray grove]

Sylphean Slugs’ songs and sylphsong have the same effects

[whole holly]

is Salubra Sylphean Slug? i though Sylphsong was named it because Sylph effect, not because of it's relation with Slug

[stray grove]

Yeah that’s my theory

[limpid summit]

Do kisses have soul power

Nuu’s analysis is dependent on her kiss

[sinful nimbus]

Nuu was trying to steal your soul

[stray grove]

If they’re from a soul using sylphean slug

[whole holly]

Salubra's Blessing seems to be similar to Sylphsong mechanically

[stray grove]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying

[limpid summit]

Why do you call me crazy when I say Nuu and Unn are sylphean slugs

Unn is visually similar to an irl slug but we know she’s not exactly an HK slug

Sylphean slug

[stray grove]

Unn is a higher being

[limpid summit]

Okay

[stray grove]

She’s something completely different

[limpid summit]

PK is a Wyrm

[stray grove]

She’s also an essence based HB

[stray grove]

How can Nuu and Unn be the same species

[limpid summit]

Okay

Nuu isn’t exactly the same species

It’s like Unn’s Grimm

Or THK

[stray grove]

So true

[limpid summit]

Genuinely why the hell would they do that

They could have named her like Glorb

And I would never have cared about this connection

[stray grove]

Anyway for the record I was joking Nika we don’t know what sylphean slugs are

Salubra being one is baseless

[limpid summit]

It’s just the name that makes me notice the subtle similarities

[stray grove]

And don’t listen to AppleEgg

They’re spouting nonsense

[limpid summit]

Perhaps you are more grown than you realize, Nuu

[whole holly]

ik, Salubra is just only confirmed slug

[stray grove]

The reason Eva’s song is called sylphsong is more likely because she’s frail and delicate like a wind spirit

[limpid summit]

Nuu is a phoenix rising from the ashes

I wonder if Unn grew huge because she ate people

[stray grove]

I’m not listening

[whole holly]

i am kinda Frustrated about Huntress since Nuu gave us hunter's journal and not her