sk-lore

[frosty gate]

They were the enslavers of the Citadel

[unique tangle]

The citadel is a web born of the weavers and their naivety when they thought they could keep her trapped

[sinful nimbus]

This low, her gaze escaped.
Prepare, sisters. Weave hope anew.
That we might break free this accursed web born of our naive foundation.
Yeah and they needed to escape GMS's gaze to escape the Citadel... Why?

[unique tangle]

They literally call their own creation their web

The mosshome tablet

[sinful nimbus]

They continued thinking that

[unique tangle]

Written by the weavers calls their own citadel system a web

[frosty gate]

That doesn't mean that all web is the Citadel lmao

[sinful nimbus]

There is no evidence to suggest that they ever believed the Citadel would fail and there is evidence to suggest the exact opposite in the Ballador rune harp

[frosty gate]

They literally don't serve the Citadel

[unique tangle]

And then mask maker states in no uncertain terms that the name the weavers use for the citadel is “a web”

[sinful nimbus]

Yes web is the weaver term for exploitative systems its spider wordplay

"A system, or web they'd likely call it"

[frosty gate]

"Service eternal" to the Citadel they specifically made so they wouldn't have to serve?

[unique tangle]

Yea and so they call the citadel a web in their rune harps and lore tablet

[sinful nimbus]

They refer to two different things with the same term

From context we can infer that the Cindril rune harp is about GMS's reign because they specifically mention fleeing from GMS 🥴

[frosty gate]

Because it's their own exploitative system made to exploit bugs

[frosty gate]

It literally mentions "Her Silken Sight"

[unique tangle]

From context they realized that they would never escape GMS regardless of her state as long as she was alive even when she was asleep so silken sight isn’t a gotcha for what period it was written

[spark valve]

what mask maker says indicates the exact opposite, that they use web as a synonym for system

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

[spark valve]

no they didn't they explicitly didn't

[unique tangle]

Ballador

[sinful nimbus]

Ballador doesn't say that

[spark valve]

These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

[sinful nimbus]

Unless you have a specific piece of dialogue in mind

[frosty gate]

If that was the case it "The Last Words of the Weaver" wouldn't make sense

[unique tangle]

The weavers realized the truth that only one monarch would ever rule pharloom so they passed down the burden of running the citadel to the conductors

[spark valve]

These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

[unique tangle]

That is exactly what ballador says

[frosty gate]

Yes, an exploitative system, but that doesn't mean all exploitative systems are The Citadel

[foggy fractal]

do you think those simple bugs was supposed to bear it full, neaver to cease and never to silence ?

[unique tangle]

The citadel was a web for the weavers cause it still was a system they were stuck in

[spark valve]

gee you know i don't know if the weavers thought These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

[foggy fractal]

I wonder

[sinful nimbus]

Uhhh he doesn't say that though

[unique tangle]

It still was a burden forever to service the song to GMS

[spark valve]

they probably thought she was gonna break out right away!

[foggy fractal]

shame

[sinful nimbus]

The song keeps her asleep

[spark valve]

it's not like the weavers handily say what became of them in pharloom in a text called their last words

it's not like people repeatedly say all the weavers met that fate either surely

surely!

[unique tangle]

But the words... How hollow they echoed. The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown.
Now, in our Citadel's silence, we share their truth. Only one monarch's claws ever clutched this kingdom, though we raised

We share their truth

The truth which the weavers also realized was that they were not getting rid of GMS

[spark valve]

if only there was a handy rune harp that said exactly what was going to happen to the weavers

[foggy fractal]

if only

[sinful nimbus]

The point of the whole true monarch stuff is that Weavers/Conductors are essentially carrying on her oppression

[spark valve]

it's not like they say they're going to die out

[frosty gate]

Why would it say flee when they can just leave peacefully, they're not bound by anything in the Citadel

[sinful nimbus]

Its not to do with them realizing the Citadel was futile which they explicitly didn't

[unique tangle]

“Now in our citadel’s silence we share their truth”

[spark valve]

no you see they needed to make tools specifically to make them faster so they could run further specifically because the thing they were trying to escape from was already contained

[sinful nimbus]

Please read the above message

[unique tangle]

The citadels silence as a result of realizing the truth

The silence caused by GMS

[frosty gate]

Are you being sarcastic? I can't really tell which side of the argument are you on

[spark valve]

yes

[unique tangle]

So like the weavers they realized that GMS could not be stopped forever

[frosty gate]

Ok, so we are in the same side that Weavers left before GMS was trapped?

[spark valve]

yes

[frosty gate]

Cyndril Weavers at last

Okay, now I know who to actually argue with lmao I was so confused

[sinful nimbus]

What?
That's not what he says

[spark valve]

every relevant piece of text supports that interpretation as does the establishment of the weavenests' point in the timeline with stuff like atla having citadel prototypes

[frosty gate]

Which means I'm right in my time line and I won't have to change it unless TC decides to fuck me specifically

[unique tangle]

I can’t argue reading comprehension into someone

[spark valve]

negative self awareness

[frosty gate]

Reverse mirror

[sinful nimbus]

He says he knows the truth now that the Citadel is silent not that the truth CAUSED the silence

[spark valve]

the silence doesn't come from realizing the truth
realizing the truth comes from the silence and their power being stripped

[unique tangle]

If you take the whole line into context then what is the truth ballador realized which the weavers also realized

Either way it’s related to GMS

[frosty gate]

Yeah, the Citadel's silence is from another cause, they did not know the truth

[sinful nimbus]

That the rule is a burden

[unique tangle]

That they couldn’t keep her asleep forever

That the citadel is a burden

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

The weavers thought that burden would continue indefinitely

As confirmed in the rune harp Ballador holds

[spark valve]

they even didn't see their own deaths as freedom

[frosty gate]

Yes, we all know that. That doesn't mean Cyndril Weavers fled while GMS was already captured

[unique tangle]

Ok so the citadel is a burden, it was yoke not crown, so to the weavers this system is still a web

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

No one was arguing that the Weavers don't consider the Citadel a web idk what you're waffling about

[spark valve]

it's a strawman

[foggy fractal]

waffle 🧇

[spark valve]

multiple things are called webs

[unique tangle]

Apparently you were cause somehow the Cindril web doesn’t count

Nor does Atla

[frosty gate]

I'm more pancake guy

[unique tangle]

And mask maker is the one waffling

[dire lynx]

pancakes 🥞

[spark valve]

just lying

[sinful nimbus]

They don't count because those webs are from GMS yes

[foggy fractal]

🥞 here

[unique tangle]

When he says that the weavers would call the citadel a web

[spark valve]

it is
it is a system
they call systems webs

[frosty gate]

We just told you it's a System and we agree it is, but it doesn't mean all systems are The Citadel

[sinful nimbus]

They say they are running from GMS's silken sight therefore GMS was in power at that point in time therefore the web is hers (Which is the entire point of the game)

[spark valve]

weavers have funny little words for things, like calling 'masks' crests

[unique tangle]

Yeah not all systems ate the citadel but I don’t believe TC randomly used the web metaphor lightly

[spark valve]

they didn't use it lightly

the point is that the weavers are doing the thing that was done to them

they are different webs that are echoes of each other

[unique tangle]

The term web is used extremely sparingly and makes the most sense when referring to the citadel

[spark valve]

just like the conductors' reign echoing the weavers'

[frosty gate]

They didn't, but I beg you, why flee as fast as they can with the anklets from a place they can just walk out

[unique tangle]

Cause GMS was waking

[spark valve]

no she wasn't

These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

[unique tangle]

There’s urgency in that

[frosty gate]

She wasn't

[sinful nimbus]

Why wouldn't it apply to GMS's rule

[frosty gate]

GMS waking up is WAAY down the time line

[spark valve]

"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."
there is negative urgency here

[sinful nimbus]

Y'know the oppressive rule that resulted in the Weavers' oppressive rule which resulted in the Conductors' impressive rule

[unique tangle]

I’m not saying it can’t but GMS is more of just straight servitude, she didn’t really weave a complex system for the weavers

[foggy fractal]

who you think they praying to ? GMS ?

[frosty gate]

It was still a System of Servitude

[unique tangle]

They just played song for her it wasn’t really a system like how the citadel was constructed

[spark valve]

I mean you can use that word roughly synonymously with hope

[frosty gate]

A Web

[foggy fractal]

true

[dire lynx]

gotta be goat pale king

[foggy fractal]

feels pk man !

[sinful nimbus]

Either she did or the word doesn't mean what you think it means

It doesn't really matter either way

Point is its explicitly from her as they are escaping her specifically

Not the Citadel

[spark valve]

it is actually possible they know of hornet in a certain configuration of the timeline where the cindril weavers returned during the weaver reign in the citadel which would be funny

[unique tangle]

Not exactly

It says free from web and service eternal

[spark valve]

yes exactly very specifically it's to escape from her

[sinful nimbus]

What does Her Silken Sight mean

[unique tangle]

The web is referring to the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

Did the Citadel have a silken sight

[spark valve]

just made that up

[sinful nimbus]

Is the Citadel a her

[spark valve]

apparently

[frosty gate]

She/Her Citadel of Song

[unique tangle]

The citadel isn’t what they’re referring to in that line

[spark valve]

shetadel

[frosty gate]

LMAO

[sinful nimbus]

So they're running from GMS

Ergo she wasn't neutralized at that point in time ergo the Citadel wasn't established

[dire lynx]

hetadel, theytadel, itadel

[unique tangle]

This does not follow from the first

[sinful nimbus]

It does

[spark valve]

it does

[dense umbra]

I just defeated ||Grand Mother Silk|| and dear lord such a ending. Im no were done with the game but i just wanted to share this moment

[frosty gate]

Ergo, the web of service eternal is the constant singing and playing Needolin she had

[unique tangle]

They can be running from GMS when they realize their system is failing and that she will wake

[sinful nimbus]

If they're running from GMS she'd have to not be neutralized and the Citadel does neutralize her. I believe you take issue with the last statement right?

[spark valve]

they didn't realize that we know they didn't

These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

[frosty gate]

But they were going to die by the time she woke up

[unique tangle]

They are running after coming to the truth that they cannot be neutralized forever

[spark valve]

These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

[frosty gate]

They literally acknowledge the fact that they can die and the Bugs will keep her asleep

[spark valve]

people just made up this idea of them realizing she was going to wake up that didn't happen

[unique tangle]

Ye so they run while she’s still not fully woken, and they leave it to the bugs to keep GMS stalled for longer

[spark valve]

but they don't say for longer hollow knight fans cannot read

they say
forever

These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

[unique tangle]

That’s what the truth is that ballador mentions

[frosty gate]

No, the Truth that Ballador mentions is the fact that the Weavers were lying brats and the whole religion is a sham

[unique tangle]

We share their truth isn’t coming to terms with being tricked, it’s coming to the same realization

[spark valve]

the realization isn't that gms is waking up

it's that their power isn't 'true'

they're tied to the burden of keeping gms asleep

[unique tangle]

The truth being stated in the following line being that GMS is the only monarch

[spark valve]

they are also slaves

[frosty gate]

Therefore the conductors are leaders as much as Weavers were gods

[spark valve]

the truth just isn't anything about waking up he says what the truth is

[sinful nimbus]

Ok so first of all the Citadel fell because of the haunting which is a result of the Whiteward experiments according to Caretaker

This would mean the Citadel would not be failing at the time of the Weavers reign as the Conductors are the ones who started those experiments

This chronology lines up with Ballador's rune harp that states the Weavers believed the Citadel would continue indefinitely under the Conductor's Rule until someone came along and got rid of GMS for good

[spark valve]

The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown.
this is the truth

nothing to do with her waking up

they just didn't realize it until after

[foggy fractal]

what does yoke mean

[frosty gate]

You mean "The Land's True Ruler"

[foggy fractal]

egg yoke ?

[unique tangle]

Yoke means burden

[frosty gate]

Oh shit I just remembered

[foggy fractal]

thanks

[frosty gate]

Ballador literally says Weavers were dying by his time

[spark valve]

yup

they were dying out in pharloom

[foggy fractal]

epic fail

[spark valve]

this is said a whole bunch but people like to ignore it

[frosty gate]

So leaving is for nothing

[sinful nimbus]

I hate the word yoke I hate how they used it two times in this game its just a bad word

[spark valve]

surely it's not like they left a rune harp conveniently saying what they would do after passing the burden

[frosty gate]

No I know they died, but I didn't realize that Ballador said they were fading, so they saw them die

[foggy fractal]

surely

[frosty gate]

Definitely

[dire lynx]

Pharlooms Folly shows us the truth being spoken of was Grand mother silks nature

"They see your beauty, so frail and fine,

They see your peace, woven of faith and toil,

They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude,

When you wake they shall see your truth,

A beast's nature bare to all."

[spark valve]

that is a different truth

ballador says what the truth is he's talking about

Is our state so bare, pilgrim?... "By the will of the Conductors," we once boomed, and this Citadel shook at our decree.
But the words... How hollow they echoed. The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown.
Now, in our Citadel's silence, we share their truth.

[foggy fractal]

By the will of the Conductors 🗣️ 💥

[spark valve]

I mean all that brass? probably did boom

[unique tangle]

They just didn’t want to say chains ig

They wanted to sound fancy

[dire lynx]

what a dumbass

[frosty gate]

Point is, Weavers leaving was before GMS was trapped

[sinful nimbus]

Shackle would work

[foggy fractal]

epic fail

[spark valve]

unfortunately this misconception probably ain't dying but oh well

[sinful nimbus]

Look

Sometimes communities need a unifying discourse that will last for years

[dire lynx]

for clarity on our word

[spark valve]

yeah but it usually shouldn't be something this explicitly stated in game

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom Gender
Weaver Timeline
Lace Age (Maybe not that one)

[frosty gate]

I'm on Weaver Timeline duty dw

(It's not going good)

THE LEAPS I HAVE TO MAKE SO THINGS MAKE SENSE

[dire lynx]

get the last one out, we need to beat lace age deniers with a wooden pole

[frosty gate]

[spark valve]

lace age deniers are just in denial but yeah they do say some uh gross stuff

not really the place to get into that ideally though so

[sinful nimbus]

Speaking of I forgot the slabflies

And Hornet in general

[ancient sinew]

Hi

[sinful nimbus]

Hi long time no see

[spark valve]

who the fuck is a fan of gimmighoul

[dire lynx]

i have the #sk-lore bingo card if we want to get all the big things

[spark valve]

whatever it's the lore channel

[ancient sinew]

Woah an Unn fan hihihihihi

[dire lynx]

hello ^^

[foggy fractal]

oi what yo problem with gimmighoul ?

[ancient sinew]

Nice nick btw

[spark valve]

trust fund baby

[foggy fractal]

fair

[sinful nimbus]

Thanks I'm the #1 PK fan in this server

[spark valve]

big words

[sinful nimbus]

Can't think of anyone else in chat who likes PK more than I do

[unique tangle]

Also just wanted to state that this is incorrect since they’re two different dialogues
The line about truth is spoken along with the following lines about GMS not alongside the previous lines

Not that I want to continue the previous discussion

[ancient sinew]

I know someone who might disagree with that sentiment but I respect the energy

[unique tangle]

But just to clarify the context of that dialogue

[ancient sinew]

We PK fans gotta stick together

[frosty gate]

And let's not talk about the FS being trapped by Weavers one

[spark valve]

the context of the dialogue extends beyond the literal text box the dialogue is still in sequence this is idiotic

[ancient sinew]

Unn fans ofc are also welcome

[spark valve]

I mean that one is probably true

[frosty gate]

It is, but some people think it isn't

And it so hard to explain

[dire lynx]

pk and unn had a deal(w PK glaze)

[spark valve]

just gotta push the fs atla thing ez

[ancient sinew]

I mean that’s canon yes

[foggy fractal]

first sinner ? last judge ? what's next ? middle...?

[frosty gate]

I'm still unsure about that one, at this point FS could be Zote and I have no idea

[spark valve]

second sentinel

[dire lynx]

middle man

[frosty gate]

Fifth Harmony

[unique tangle]

Widow is the technically the last

Or so she says ig

[foggy fractal]

erm.... we know at least of 5 sentinels... so that wouldn't be in the middle 🤓 ...

[frosty gate]

The last of the first

[spark valve]

I mean it's not confirmed but there's stuff that supports it like atla using runes and the idol

[unique tangle]

Yea whatever that means

[sinful nimbus]

its also tuff asf

[frosty gate]

Agree

[frosty gate]

Last of the Weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Rule of cool is legit evidence for theories

[spark valve]

also atla being held in special esteem by the citadel with the atla weavenest being where it was conceived

[dire lynx]

balador calls the weavers the first childeren of pharloom

[unique tangle]

Last of the weavers definitely but it’s confusing what she means when she says first herself

[frosty gate]

So does Archi

[frosty gate]

Of the First, the Last

Of the First Childrens,
The Last

[unique tangle]

That’s possible yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway this is pretty telling that FS is Atla imo

[spark valve]

and cardinius

[ancient sinew]

Widow is the Last of the Weavers created by GMS

[frosty gate]

I mean, it's exactly what it means, I don't see other possibility

[ancient sinew]

She’s the last of the first (children)

Which is just to say she’s the last surviving full blooded Weaver

[unique tangle]

I’m not disagreeing I just think it’s a good interpretation

[dire lynx]

i think i got bingo actually, 1 sec

[unique tangle]

Especially in contrast to FS who has needolin dialogue calling herself the first

[dire lynx]

NOOO

one off

[ancient sinew]

FS being the first weaver comes from a non canon filename

[unique tangle]

I’m talking about her needolin dialogue

She refers to herself as faded forgotten and then also first

[ancient sinew]

Her needolin dialogue isn’t really conclusive, I personally believe she’s the first Weaver but that’s just headcanon

First could also refer to the fact she’s the first sinner

[spark valve]

she's a full blooded weaver so also one of the first children of pharloom

[unique tangle]

It’s definitely about herself since it parallels the other weaver shrine needolin dialogue

[ancient sinew]

That too

[unique tangle]

Which refer to themselves as faded forgotten and then bound

Instead of first

[ancient sinew]

it could be a reference to the first children or a reference to her being the first sinner though

Nothing really indicates she’s the first weaver

[unique tangle]

When did I say she was the first weaver

[ancient sinew]

Well sorry if I misunderstood

But you were contrasting her dialogue to Widow’s

Widow is the last of the first

[unique tangle]

I just said FS’s needolin of “first” is interesting in comparison to widow who calls herself, the last and the last of the first

And that maybe TC intended a connection there

Just for consideration

[ancient sinew]

I mean it’s possible she was the first of the first but first more likely refers to the first children if you ask me

She’s also the first sinner which is her official title

[unique tangle]

But then why don’t all the other weaver shrines say first

It’s a description TC intended to be unique to FS

So yeah it could be related to her sinner status

But it’s an interesting line when paired with widow

[dire lynx]

fayforn

[sinful nimbus]

is a heart bearer

[ancient sinew]

You just made that up

[sinful nimbus]

Can you at least hear me out

[spark valve]

no

[sinful nimbus]

Ask for evidence

[spark valve]

no

you don't have any

[sinful nimbus]

I do you just need to ask

[spark valve]

nope

[sinful nimbus]

You don't seem to be engaging in good faith

[dire lynx]

its old and powerful

[ancient sinew]

If you had evidence you would present it instead of waiting for someone to entertain your bullshit

[sinful nimbus]

I just want you to ask

[unique tangle]

If so sure would be nice if they said anything about that ingame

[sinful nimbus]

Preferably with a "please"

[ancient sinew]

You’re obviously not serious about this

[unique tangle]

But they don’t

So she’s prolly not a heart bearer

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway yes its immensely powerful and indicated to be related to the cold inflicting Mount Fay (Which is named after it), heart imagery is also used for it by Mister Mushroom

[unique tangle]

Even moss Druid doesn’t recognize her 💔

[ancient sinew]

Me when I just make shit up

[spark valve]

yap

[sinful nimbus]

Druid doesn't talk about Karmelita or the Princes either

[spark valve]

they talk about karm

[sinful nimbus]

Again I'd like you to ask me for evidence before dismissing the idea, thank you

[foggy fractal]

if fayforn doesn't have a heart than what organs does it have ? is it a robot

[unique tangle]

?? Have you read their lines

[sinful nimbus]

Oh they do

[ancient sinew]

“It is immensely powerful” says who lmao “indicated to be related to the cold inducing mount fay” it’s just cold???? What???

[spark valve]

it's a single celled organism it has organelles

[dire lynx]

yes, birds are drones

[sinful nimbus]

Fell heart of frost

[foggy fractal]

😱

[sinful nimbus]

You could stand to be nicer when critiquing my theory

[ancient sinew]

???

[sinful nimbus]

Or theories, you've done this before

[foggy fractal]

I see

[unique tangle]

Ahhh! Ahhh-ohhhh! The smell is right! Like the others! But very young! Oh, voice of the woods! Oh, dance of the queen! Oh... oh! Beat harder, let us hear it! Oh! Ohhhhhhhh!

[sinful nimbus]

That is how she is described

[unique tangle]

Dance of the Queen

I wonder who that’s referencing

[sinful nimbus]

Indeed

[ancient sinew]

Ok? How does that imply she has ice powers lmao

[sinful nimbus]

She's described as the heart of the cold which implies she's at least central to it

Like Nyleth as the heart of the woods

[lone folio]

It seems to be pretty powerful yeah but not sure if it's the cause of the cold. "fell heart of frost who soars on high" could be interpreted differently 🤷‍♂️

[ancient sinew]

No? That’s… not what that means?

[sinful nimbus]

How do you interpret it

[ancient sinew]

HK fans actually can’t read holy

[sinful nimbus]

(See how easy it is to ask where you're coming from instead of accusing the other person of making stuff up?)

[lone folio]

I would love to answer that but I can't find the words

[ancient sinew]

It’s alright I’ll find them for you

[sinful nimbus]

When you say something is the heart of x it usually implies they are central to x

Such as Karmelita being the "Heart of the Wild" and Nyleth being the "Heart of the Woods"

Ofc this also refers to their literal hearts

[spark valve]

hornet would stab the bird to death if it was an old heart

hell she would do it for fun

[foggy fractal]

noooo don't do that

I would stop her

[unique tangle]

Also all four hearts are mentioned by moss Druid

Beat beat beat!
In coral, in shell...
And why not here?!
Beating, beating...
The world's rhythms...
In branches, in fields!

[sinful nimbus]

Fayforn is a heart in its prime though

[lone folio]

She seems to respect it alot though

[spark valve]

well yeah hornet sucks

she also respects karmelita doesn't stop her murdering her in cold blood

[unique tangle]

Coral is Khann, shell is Nyleth, branches is GP, and fields is Karmelita

[foggy fractal]

true that but don't worry, I am here

[lone folio]

Okay but she's already dying

[spark valve]

nyleth
the only heart to not even have a shell lmao

no

[sinful nimbus]

shellwood

[spark valve]

branches refers to nyleth

[sinful nimbus]

Oh yeah that makes sense

[ancient sinew]

fell heart of frost is just in reference to its stoic temperament and the environment in which it resides it doesn’t necessarily indicate that it’s “central” or the cause of the cold climate

[sinful nimbus]

Why is it described as the heart of it then

That would be very poor wording

[ancient sinew]

Next you’re going to tell me fell means it was a former heart that lost its title

[spark valve]

poor wording? in silksong? never

[sinful nimbus]

No that refers to its temperament

[sinful nimbus]

Well I want to give TC the benefit of the doubt where I can

[ancient sinew]

That argument doesn’t work anymore

[sinful nimbus]

Yes it does

[ancient sinew]

“It would be bad writing” well TC are bad writers

[sinful nimbus]

"TC are bad writers therefore we can throw reading comprehension out of the window"

[ancient sinew]

also “heart of frost”

[sinful nimbus]

That can't be good faith

[ancient sinew]

it’s like saying “heart of ice”

cold hearted, stoic

[sinful nimbus]

So Elsa

[ancient sinew]

It’s not that deep bruh

[ancient sinew]

sure?

[sinful nimbus]

Are you fr

[ancient sinew]

have you never heard the phrase cold hearted before

[sinful nimbus]

She resides in an immensely cold region its obviously about that

Don't be dense

[ancient sinew]

Heart of frost

[lone folio]

Ah so: "in coral" refers to Khann. "in Shell" is for the green Princess lover who is in a shell of the citadel making or something like that. "in branches" is nyleth. And "in fields" is karmelita. I have never seen moss druid dialogue be so important

[ancient sinew]

Yeah it can refer to… multiple things

[spark valve]

it is also you know supposed to be a clue to the player

[sinful nimbus]

OK so why can't it refer to my thing

[spark valve]

it can be the double meaning

[lone folio]

Interesting!

[sinful nimbus]

Its a triple meaning

[ancient sinew]

It’s a… double meaning… because it’s a… clue

[unique tangle]

Shell I’m split on Nyleth or GP but I can see it going either way

[sinful nimbus]

Its a triple meaning

[unique tangle]

But ye moss Druid gives good old hearts lore

[spark valve]

why not tack on the meaning that you smell bad for good measure make it a quadruple meaning

[unique tangle]

They get overlooked a lot

[sinful nimbus]

OK Hornet

[foggy fractal]

hey I don't smell bad :C

[lone folio]

I doubt it's nyleth because "shell" fits green prince/princes better than "branch"

[spark valve]

is your name kinglight of a long dead monarch didn't think so

[lone folio]

Like yeah sure verdania is pretty... Verdant but not as much as nyleth

[foggy fractal]

yeah, my name is Andy

[ancient sinew]

idk about good but it’s nice that it exists

[spark valve]

then you're fine and dAndy

[unique tangle]

Good in context that it’s better than nothing lol

[foggy fractal]

thanks :D

[ancient sinew]

Old Hearts lore as a whole is completely disjointed and makes little sense in context

[lone folio]

And kind of disproved fayforn being an old heart

[spark valve]

not really

[unique tangle]

A lot of this game doesn’t get much more elaboration than in the single instance they’re mentioned

[ancient sinew]

Old Hearts lore is ahh

[unique tangle]

So the fact that the hearts at least gets two points of reference already sets them above the rest

[ancient sinew]

Nyleth especially

[sinful nimbus]

I do like how the old hearts are somewhat song related with the whole rhythm thing but unfortunately song magic as a whole isn't fleshed out so it doesn't amount to anything

[ancient sinew]

I don’t mind Khann, Karm is irrelevant but not offensive

[sinful nimbus]

Karm has as much as Khann

[ancient sinew]

Verdania and Nyleth had HORRID rewrites

[lone folio]

Real

[dire lynx]

great value unn

[spark valve]

I mean karm has the added angle of tc doing a really really bad job of trying to come up with a reason why hornet kills her when she doesn't need the heart

[spark valve]

what nyleth could've been doesn't change that nyleth is a fun callback to hk

[ancient sinew]

it’s in character

[lone folio]

How is it a callback to hk?

[sinful nimbus]

You know what would've been a funner callback

Dung Beetle guarding Nyleth

[ancient sinew]

It’s not what she could have been it’s what she is and what she is makes no sense

[spark valve]

what she is makes sense

[ancient sinew]

Seth just has no lore now

[unique tangle]

Nyleth is really disappointing especially when her area didn’t even get extensive reworks like they did for the areas for the other three hearts

[spark valve]

it's what seth is that doesn't make sense

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway what does the callback really do be fr

[unique tangle]

I can get them being hasty with GP Khann and Karm after their areas got completely reworked and obliterated

[ancient sinew]

oh come on you know this is what I was getting at

[sinful nimbus]

We now know theres more than one Isma type creature and uhhh

[spark valve]

means i was right about isma

[unique tangle]

But shellwood has stayed mostly the same

And yet they still didn’t flesh out Nyleth’s lore this whole time

[ancient sinew]

Nyleth being an Isma is also baseless stop it Tammo

[sinful nimbus]

The people you can brag to are gone

[spark valve]

ok rando

[ancient sinew]

Do you actually have evidence

[spark valve]

have you looked at her

[ancient sinew]

Or is everyone just saying shit now

[sinful nimbus]

Look at them for 5 seconds genius

[ancient sinew]

I don’t see any similarity

[lone folio]

Holy shit they are both plants

[foggy fractal]

shit now

[ancient sinew]

In fact I see a lot of differences

[sinful nimbus]

Don't care bad faith

[dire lynx]

one has legs for starters

[ancient sinew]

They’re both plant beings wow

Guess they’re related! Good one Tammo!

[spark valve]

isma no longer has legs

[sinful nimbus]

They also both established a unique ecosystem

And are rooted into the walls blah blah just look at them or stop talking

[ancient sinew]

So did Unn guess she’s also the same species

[lone folio]

guys husks are kind of beetles... Dung defender is a beetle... You see where I'm going with this theory?

[sinful nimbus]

Not in the same way

[unique tangle]

I mean just look at the knight and zote

[foggy fractal]

no ? could you elaborate

[lone folio]

I'm joking

[sinful nimbus]

The Knight and Zote connection is deliberate

[ancient sinew]

You mean the way you just made up

[foggy fractal]

no, do continue

[sinful nimbus]

iirc Gimmighoul believes they are related in-universe after watching that 1 CCMaci video anyway

[unique tangle]

Yea zote is a vessel for a great darkness metaphorically

[ancient sinew]

The resemblance between Isma and Nyleth is superficial at best

[spark valve]

copium

[lone folio]

You see.. They both live in hallownest

[foggy fractal]

interesting...

[unique tangle]

You lost me

[sinful nimbus]

Look at them dawg

[ancient sinew]

I unironically think Greyroot WL is more of an intentional connection

[unique tangle]

That’s a bit of a stretch

[sinful nimbus]

Oh my god

[ancient sinew]

”look at them” isn’t an argument

[sinful nimbus]

I can't with this channel and I can't with you

[unique tangle]

Are you sure they really do both live in hallownest?

[spark valve]

except when it is

[ancient sinew]

Are you going to tell me what I’m looking at

[lone folio]

That name reminds me of Halloween.. You know who is in Halloween? Stingy Jack

[sinful nimbus]

Two members of the same species

[ancient sinew]

I see a very superficial resemblance and numerous differences

[lone folio]

That's right

[sinful nimbus]

Such as

[lone folio]

Dung defender is stingy Jack

[sinful nimbus]

All the differences are inconsequential

[ancient sinew]

Also them looking similar doesn’t mean they are related

[sinful nimbus]

looks like a duck quacks like a duck

[ancient sinew]

THK and MLs have the same hear shape must be related lmao

[spark valve]

but when they look similar and do the same shit

[lone folio]

I mean

[sinful nimbus]

You should use Isma's current form

[lone folio]

Kind of?

[spark valve]

that's not the correct comparison lol

[sinful nimbus]

They both even have a floral skirt

[lone folio]

Oh plant isma?

[spark valve]

why are you comparing the wanderer form of isma to the rooted form of nyleth

[ancient sinew]

Isma’s current form has more eyes

[sinful nimbus]

Along with the white mask

[sinful nimbus]

Character design

[spark valve]

so do gahlia

[sinful nimbus]

"Soul scholars must be a unique species because they have more limbs!"

[ancient sinew]

Which aren’t the same thing either

[spark valve]

but they're the spawn of one

[ancient sinew]

Not everything in shellwood looks like Nyleth

Vessels don’t look exactly like PK

[spark valve]

are we really pretending gahlia have nothing to do with nyleth

[ancient sinew]

Are you telling me Gahlia are baby Ismas

Seriously

[spark valve]

no but the resemblance doesn't have to be coincidental

[ancient sinew]

I see no resemblance

[spark valve]

capping

[sinful nimbus]

Are you blind genuinely

[spark valve]

white masked plant with the same face shape

[ancient sinew]

Nyleth also has a big chunky yellow sphere in her chest

[foggy fractal]

do we think instead of a yellow ball, isma had like a green ball as her chest

[unique tangle]

Probably acid coloured

Given how much acid she spewed out

[ancient sinew]

Nyleth also has white petals

[sinful nimbus]

Yes they are different individuals congrats

[ancient sinew]

Isma we can’t even make out much of what she looks like

[sinful nimbus]

"Skynx and Nosk have some differences so they are clearly not the same"

[ancient sinew]

idk what you see that I don’t

[lone folio]

You know sherma and quirrel also have similar masks

[ancient sinew]

We are on a roll lmao

[spark valve]

nyleth's needolin stuff also indicates that there are others

[dire lynx]

they arent the same 💀

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[ancient sinew]

Do you or Tammo say anything that isn’t completely made up

This is why I left the channel

[sinful nimbus]

Do you say anything that isn't deliberately antagonistic genuinely

[spark valve]

so we have two white masked plants that take root and build ecosystems one of which explicitly mentions others like her

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe you should leave again

[ancient sinew]

Not everything is a personal attack get a fucking grip “genuinely”

[sinful nimbus]

Now we're mocking how I speak okay

[ancient sinew]

Instead of attacking me defend your dogshit theory

You can’t

[spark valve]

maybe you should get some glasses

[ancient sinew]

Great argument

[sinful nimbus]

I can't give you glasses through the screen genius

[ancient sinew]

You win

[dire lynx]

nosk can read minds, skynx is just a mask thief

[sinful nimbus]

Who wears the mask upside down

Pretty deliberate connection

[dire lynx]

nosk is a shapeshifting mind reader

[spark valve]

surely it's not like masks are used to symbolize anything in the hollow knight ip

surely

[ancient sinew]

But you could, I don’t know, describe the similarities that are apparently so strong and deliberate they prove a connection even in the absence of supporting evidence

[silk dirge]

insert picture of sherma wearing a facemask or something

[spark valve]

and it's not like skynx does anything else weird

[ancient sinew]

you keep dismissing me with “look at them” genuinely fuck off

[spark valve]

ok pokemon fan

[foggy fractal]

nooo my pokemons are awesome such as

decidueye

the red version btw

[spark valve]

ew

[ancient sinew]

y’all are actually just saying shit

[foggy fractal]

what do you have against the red decidueye

[spark valve]

lamer than the green one

[foggy fractal]

nuh uh !

[sinful nimbus]

Jesus christ they both have roots at the end of their body and a floral skirt and are rooted into their respective ecosystems along with a similar head

Was that so hard to figure out?

[lone folio]

I swear this is not the lore channel most of the time it's a "shit on everyone else" channel

[ancient sinew]

There are also clear differences and these similarities boil down to “they are both plant like entities” genius

[silk dirge]

the great silksong presidential debate

[spark valve]

isma having a 'grove'

it's a nascent shellwood

[foggy fractal]

sherma for president or uhhh
who's even alive that can be president, random pilgrim #12 ?

[ancient sinew]

Because you said so?

[foggy fractal]

president over the citadel 🗣️

[spark valve]

yes

[silk dirge]

does pilby make it

[ancient sinew]

this is circular

[foggy fractal]

idk

[ancient sinew]

you can’t use Isma and Nyleth being the same species as evidence for Isma’s Grove being a nascent shellwood lmao

[spark valve]

watch me

[silk dirge]

anyways sometimes i feel like people here need to take an electricity and magnetism class so they stop arguing 😭

[ancient sinew]

I mean sure you can but it’s circular and unconvicing

[lone folio]

I like pilgrim #13 better

[sinful nimbus]

Plantlike entities that do the same thing and have similar designs with one of which being established to be part of a group are clearly connected and any moron could figure that out by thinking about it for 5 seconds but we can't engage with the argument in good faith, can we?

[foggy fractal]

epic

[lone folio]

He has some great points about the value of rosaries

[silk dirge]

no time to argue when you have to deal with this shit

[ancient sinew]

They don’t do the same thing

[foggy fractal]

answer is 2

[sinful nimbus]

Now we're getting somewhere. Please, elaborate

[ancient sinew]

What “group”

[spark valve]

yes they do??

[silk dirge]

this isnt a test question 😭

those are labels

[ancient sinew]

Based on your circular reasoning

[silk dirge]

of which equation is what

[sinful nimbus]

Did you read Nyleth's dialogue at the end of her fight

[foggy fractal]

no no you misunderstand, the answer is the number 2, not label 2

[ancient sinew]

LOL

[sinful nimbus]

I don't know if you could even beat her with your level of intelligence

[lone folio]

You left out number 5. So none of the above

[ancient sinew]

She’s saying we as in the forest is an extension of her

She’s not referring to other members of her species LMAO

[spark valve]

'you too, distant shape'

also her being a wandering seed

not a one of a kind creature

[ancient sinew]

ok?

[spark valve]

gee what other wandering seeds do we see

[ancient sinew]

None

Because nothing implies a connection to Isma

[spark valve]

me when I lie

[lone folio]

lightseed crying in the corner

[ancient sinew]

Maybe lightseeds are the same species so true

Ok even if I concede Isma and Nyleth are related Skynx definitely isn’t a Nosk

[sinful nimbus]

Isma. Establishes. Her. Own. Ecosystem. And. Wanders.

[ancient sinew]

Wanders where

What ecosystem

[spark valve]

to hallownest

and isma's grove

[ancient sinew]

You made that up

[spark valve]

see you need glasses 💔

[sinful nimbus]

Are we seriously trying to sealion me

[ancient sinew]

What do sealions have to do with this

[lone folio]

That one under there 👍

[sinful nimbus]

Can you name another mimic with an upside down mask as part of its design?

[silk dirge]

sea lions mentioned

[sinful nimbus]

Are you twelve

[silk dirge]

what if lion village is actually

sea lion village

[lone folio]

It's in pharloom bay

[silk dirge]

TRUE

[ancient sinew]

Loaded question lmao

[spark valve]

is it

[lone folio]

Like the lore tablet that explains fayforn connection to the old hearts and whatever the fuck makes maker was talking about

[foggy fractal]

could this be tied to the lion village ?

[sinful nimbus]

Its called a rhetorical question actually I think you should google what a loaded question is

[foggy fractal]

hmmmm

[ancient sinew]

Is having an upside down face the defining feature of Nosk’s species now

[silk dirge]

lion village(full of sea lions)

[spark valve]

I mean kinda yeah

[foggy fractal]

maybe the lion village is actually full of differet types of lions...

[blissful harbor]

and mimicry

[ancient sinew]

Nosk’s mimicry and Skynx’s mimicry are also completely different

[foggy fractal]

an antlion, a lion, a sea lion... what else ?

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah the point is to expand what Nosk can do

[silk dirge]

the lion does not concern themselves with the lion village

[lone folio]

A lying lion

[spark valve]

also nosk is infected

[foggy fractal]

a lying lion ? 😨

[sinful nimbus]

Did you want a rehash of the lore of the first game? I guess it wouldn't be unexpected from a Silksong fan

[ancient sinew]

Skynx engages in simple mimicry Nosk is a psychic shapeshifter

[spark valve]

it's not like skynx steals styx's voice or anything

[ancient sinew]

It doesn’t

[lone folio]

Didn't know he specializes in using tarot cards and scamming

[ancient sinew]

It just repeats what he says

It’s also wearing his head it’s not a shapeshifter

[lone folio]

God i am so useful to this conversation

[ancient sinew]

Also nothing indicates it’s psychic

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah it can't shapeshift on a dime... obviously

Still an upside down mask

[ancient sinew]

Because you said so?

[sinful nimbus]

No because Nosk takes a long time to do so

[ancient sinew]

Why did it opt to wear his head instead of shapeshifting into him then

[spark valve]

nosks can shapeshift pretty quick but skynx doesn't have much reason to as long as hornet is bringing it food

[sinful nimbus]

Also Hornet wouldn't take kindly to a shapeshifter

[spark valve]

just ate the head

[blissful harbor]

we are simply thinking of it wrong

[ancient sinew]

Why is it wearing his head to begin with

[blissful harbor]

it didn’t take the head, head is gone

[ancient sinew]

Why doesn’t it shapeshift into literally anything else

[sinful nimbus]

Its not shapeshifting

[ancient sinew]

So it’s not a Nosk

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think Nosks constantly have to shapeshift

?????

[ancient sinew]

Because Nosk’s defining feature is being a psychic shapeshifter and Skynx by your own admissions does neither of these things

[sinful nimbus]

Oh it doesn't share one trait with Nosk boohoo

It shares all the others

[ancient sinew]

The only trait that matters

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe Nosk is special have you thought about that

[ancient sinew]

What others?

oh my god you are taking the piss

[sinful nimbus]

My headcanon is that they are from Weavenest Cindril and learned how to break the veil with Weaver magic

[ancient sinew]

Nosk isn’t special

[sinful nimbus]

JFC

[ancient sinew]

Hunter says they all do the same shit

[sinful nimbus]

According to YOU

[spark valve]

there's literally also a headless vessel body in the nosk arena

[dry bridge]

Corpse creeper

[sinful nimbus]

💀

[spark valve]

so nosks just eating the head first isn't unprecedented

[ancient sinew]

And several that aren’t headless

[sinful nimbus]

Corpse creepers aren't mimics

[ancient sinew]

Maybe that one lost its head in battle

Vessels aren’t very edible anyways

[spark valve]

or nosks eat the head first

[sinful nimbus]

AFAIK the only other mimic in HK is the grub mimic which do not use upside down masks

[spark valve]

could chomp on the shell

[ancient sinew]

This is flimsy evidence

[silk dirge]

why no flea mimics 😭

[spark valve]

it's also got a bunch of vessels in its pantry still so like

[ancient sinew]

None of the other corpses are missing their heads

[blissful harbor]

reason why theres only one with a missing head

learned its lesson

[ancient sinew]

There’s a bunch of other shit there that also still has its head

[sinful nimbus]

Where'd it go, hmm?

If its not on the ground it was eaten.

[ancient sinew]

If there were a bunch of headless corpses I would agree

[spark valve]

it eating the head first doesn't mean it'll have eaten every head immediately

[lone folio]

Background

[ancient sinew]

but there’s not enough evidence to suggest this is its typical behaviour

[sinful nimbus]

And no one saw it?

[ancient sinew]

There’s one (1) headless vessel and you mean to tell me TC decided to intentionally reference that in SS by making Styx headless

”The fans will definitely make the connection!”

[sinful nimbus]

Well, they did

[blissful harbor]

and if i say yes

[sinful nimbus]

Just because you are incapable of making connections without mossbag's help doesn't mean everyone is

[ancient sinew]

Based on other unrelated shit that’s also incredibly weak

[sinful nimbus]

Point is there's an upside down mimic stop intentionally missing the point

[ancient sinew]

What evidence actually exists to suggest they’re connected aside from the upsde down head

[sinful nimbus]

"What evidence do we have except for the evidence I don't like" jfc

[spark valve]

what evidence aside from the single most prominent feature 😭

[ancient sinew]

Nosk only has an upside down head when it shifts into a combat oriented form

Why is Skynx wearing an upside down head

[sinful nimbus]

Doesn't matter

[spark valve]

skynx's body is hidden and it may be in that form becuase it just killed styx

[sinful nimbus]

Stop missing the point

[ancient sinew]

Why didn’t it shift into Styx

[sinful nimbus]

Why would it

[ancient sinew]

Why would it wear his head

[spark valve]

it even has the forelimbs

[lone folio]

Different forelimbs

[ancient sinew]

They look different and Nosk doesn’t always have the forelimbs

[sinful nimbus]

Nosks are faceless

[ancient sinew]

Winged Nosk

[dry bridge]

in the styx secret room there's a bunch of other masks including a second mask identical to his usual one, it's not styx's head

[sinful nimbus]

Why would it want to show its (arguably nonexistent) true form to a random stranger

[spark valve]

I know this takes some spatial reasoning and visualization but imagine if nosk was in the posture skynx was in 💀

[ancient sinew]

So Skynx, a shapeshifter that can take on any form it desires including that of Styx is instead wearing his mask got it

[ancient sinew]

The most prominent feature is that Nosk is a PSYCHIC SHAPESHIFTER

[sinful nimbus]

Well yes shapeshifting takes time it was also right there in its den presumably, probably to eat

[spark valve]

and HOW IS THAT VISUALLY COMMUNICATED

[ancient sinew]

Skynx is neither psychic nor a shapeshifter

[ancient sinew]

It’s not communicated period

in Skynx’s case

[spark valve]

it's consistent across all presentations of nosk forms including in wanderer's journal

[ancient sinew]

In Nosk’s case we’re explicitly told this is the case and see it shapeshift into TK

[spark valve]

huffing the good copium

[ancient sinew]

But the mask doesn’t start upside down

[blissful harbor]

when it’s hunting

[sinful nimbus]

Skynx is in its combat form

[ancient sinew]

It starts in a much smaller form resembling the being it’s shapeshifted into and only when it transforms does the entire body (not just the head) go upside down

[spark valve]

blud hasn't even identified the actual issue with skynx being a nosk and is just yapping

[ancient sinew]

That would be too easy

[spark valve]

aura farming over lore is crazy 😭

[sinful nimbus]

Oh?

[ancient sinew]

Maybe it Star wasn’t making poor arguments I’d have reason to adjust my attack strategy

[sinful nimbus]

Actually I don't care to engage with backstabbers

[ancient sinew]

But she’s given me little reason to

[sinful nimbus]

I go by Kinglight now

[spark valve]

🗣️ 🔥

[ancient sinew]

you dishonor his name

[spark valve]

ok gimmighoul fan

is kinglight his legal name

[foggy fractal]

King "Long Dead Monarch" Light

[ancient sinew]

His legal name is whatever he wants it to be

[spark valve]

it's a fun moniker at least

[ancient sinew]

He is the law

[sinful nimbus]

Can you not normally change your legal name in Hallownest

Kinda problematic

[foggy fractal]

can we cancel pale king

[spark valve]

pk can foresee it so everyone's documents are just always correct

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[silk dirge]

real

[lone folio]

ok wait what are those lil broken parts of Styxs head

[foggy fractal]

interesting...

[sinful nimbus]

neck

[lone folio]

is that his face underneath??

[lone folio]

ohhh

[foggy fractal]

wait would pk even be handling docments like that

[lone folio]

i thought thats a horn

[sinful nimbus]

He's got time

[silk dirge]

if pk is so good why didnt he use foresight to tell me what wouldve been on my e&m final on monday

[spark valve]

did you ask

[foggy fractal]

because he is an asshole

[ancient sinew]

No he’s not shut up

[lone folio]

Because he is too good for his own good

He also was too busy aura farming on top of the abyss when the vessels were climbing

[silk dirge]

why did pk not test vessels by asking them to write down all of maxwell's laws and then derive displacement current is he stupid or something

that class has actually cooked my brain even now that im free from it

[lone folio]

Because then they would have a mind to think

[silk dirge]

true true

[lone folio]

Unfortunately PK didn't realise something about his plan

They may have not had a mind to think but they had legs to move

That's the real reason that THK failed

[foggy fractal]

yes, he is stupid

[spark valve]

um no RP

[sinful nimbus]

OK bucko name 10 PK powers right now

...weird

[mossy jay]

Buzzsaw
Buzzsaw
Buzzsaw
Buzzsaw
Buzzsaw
Prescience
Giving things sentience
Buzzsaw
Buzzsaw
Buzzsaw

[stray grove]

Come again?

[sinful nimbus]

omg you're my biggest inspiration for PK glazing

[foggy fractal]

foresight
void constructs
vessels
moving his castle to dream realm
sentience beacon
wyrm form to small form
presumably what pv can do ? like those teleports and pale nail attacks

raghh three more

[sinful nimbus]

Weaver breeding

Monarch wings are magic

[lone folio]

Void constructs?

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah monarch wings

[foggy fractal]

wingsmould kingsmould

[lone folio]

That's like saying that Timmy the robot builder is a wizard

Those are just void robots

[sinful nimbus]

Well void constructs are imprinted with essence commands which probably requires some amount of magical affinity

[lone folio]

Control of essence is a different power

[sinful nimbus]

They also utilize soul stuff

[lone folio]

Also different power

[sinful nimbus]

Wym

[lone folio]

Like using some of your other abilities together isn't a new ability

[sinful nimbus]

Void constructs required magical skills to make but ig you can split these in two if you want

[stray grove]

I have traveled far, through vesper peaks and fields of thorns. Past plains of blades undying. Through kingdoms lost to time and unfamiliar forms. At last… I break my silence, and I bring you salvation.

[lone folio]

Atleast not in the context of the void constructs

[foggy fractal]

vesper ? like vespa ?

[stray grove]

I have a wall for this

However I sealed away the forbidden magics long ago

[lone folio]

This man is so lost in PK lore that he speaks in English squared and finds a way to make every sentance take 4 seconds longer to figure out

And the sentance I just replied to I still don't understand the meaning of

Either he's a wizard or the magic is the list of PK powers

[stray grove]

That refers to the art of walls

[lone folio]

Don't remember sun tzu writing that one

[stray grove]

Many moons ago, the scions of old lore would sooner post a wall of text in response to a question than engage in meaningful discussion

One such wall details the Pale King’s various abilities

However it was sworn that walls would never be used again, for they resulted in an environment unwelcoming to new users and resistant to change

If you would like to discuss the Pale King’s abilities at length however I would be happy to do so

I’m a bit of an expert in this field

[lone folio]

Thank you for this insightful piece of knowledge that describes the events that transpired long before my arrival

[lone folio]

Just list 10 of the pale kings abilities

No need for more then that nor for alot of description just 10 abilities like Kinglight wanted

I'm also quite interested in what the pale king is capeble of since I know of only like 4 of his powers

The only ones I can recall are: soul manipulation, becoming small (some kind of transformation power thing), some essence related power, Beacon.

Monarch wings is just a part of his anatomy

So not gonna count that

[muted lantern]

man im stupid i just realized why clawmaidens are called that

[stray grove]

1 - Soul manipulation, this can be further broken down into about a dozen powers but as a challenge we can limit it to just one
2 - Ability to split the veil between the realms of dream and waking, again with various applications
3 - Foresight
4 - Beacon
5 - Wind manipulation
6 - Indefinite lifespan
7 - Transformation
8 - Creation, can be further divided into Charm Creation, Construct Creation and Dream Creation
9 - Luminescence
10 - Power Transference/Bestowal
Bonus - Malleable Nature, World Sense

Let me know if you’d like me to elaborate on any of these

[sinful nimbus]

Why are we calling it the hallowed beacon dawg

That ain't gonna stick

[stray grove]

Ok

[lone folio]

Ok I know what the wind manipulation is reffering to but honestly I'm not sure if that's PKs doing

[foggy fractal]

nah its tuff !

🥶

[stray grove]

Well, the wind in Kingdom’s Edge is visibly coming from within the Cast-Off Shell, and the wind in the Ancient Basin stops when the Monarch Wings (which clearly have a connection to him) are acquired

[lone folio]

Oh yeah wyrm wind thing

I guess he can move air

That's an interesting and random power

[foggy fractal]

air bender 🥶

[lone folio]

Also is charm creation even a power?

Most bugs can do it as long as they have a dying wish and die

[sinful nimbus]

Well he created it without dying

[lone folio]

Atleast from what I remember

[sinful nimbus]

Its not exclusive to him but it is something magical that he did

[lone folio]

True

[stray grove]

Yes

[lone folio]

For a second I thought that it was his dying wish but then I remembered that white lady has the other piece and she's doing pretty alright

[stray grove]

Charms can form in various ways and contain great magical power, PK being able to create them through whatever method counts as an ability

Not only that but one of the charms he created (not the only one!) is literally the most powerful charm possibly ever and serves as a catalyst for the ascension of the most powerful higher being probably ever

[stray grove]

Kingsoul has existed for ages

[lone folio]

What other charms did he create

[stray grove]

Defender’s Crest!

[lone folio]

Oh actually?

[sinful nimbus]

Not a flex

[stray grove]

Unique charm bestowed by the King of Hallownest to his most loyal knight. Scratched and dirty, but still cared for.

Technically doesn’t say he created it but that’s the implication

[sinful nimbus]

What... was it supposed to do

[lone folio]

I guess it has been with dung defender for so long that it became stinky

[stray grove]

Well the stink is magic

It’s possible that it originally had a different effect and that Ogrim’s essence rubbed on on if if that’s what you’re getting at

[lone folio]

Could be something like that

Though im pretty sure an npc mentions the charm reminding them of ogrim or something

[stray grove]

White Lady

Because it smells like him

[fresh badger]

My fucking ass going "ok kirb fan" and then seeing its Kirb

[stray grove]

As if it could be anyone else

When it comes to PK glazing, always bet on me

[fresh badger]

Whats pk power transferrence

The crest absorption??

[lone folio]

Ok so that means one of three things: Ogrim has always been stinky. Ogrim has has been stinky ever since the charm was given to him. Ogrim recently visited white lady when the defenders crest gained its ability that it has too this day

[stray grove]

King’s Brand, Crest Absorption, but he also presumably gave the Dreamers their powers since they were (fairly) normal bugs prior to that

[fresh badger]

Is there any power associated with kings brand tho

And I mean it was a physical brand

[lone folio]

That's true

Getting a sword from someone doesn't mean they have a power

[lone folio]

In an example

[stray grove]

I mean it’s magic

[lone folio]

So is like binding crests

[stray grove]

It has a seal surrounding it and when TK burns it onto its shell the entire Wyrm carcass collapses

It does have some similarities to crests yes

[fresh badger]

Fair

The wyrm corpse collapsing when the brand is gone do be weird

PK clearly has time stasis powers

[lone folio]

But that doesn't mean that the pilgrim in wanderers chapel has a power now does it

So idk about kings brand

Otherwise seems legit

[fresh badger]

I mean binding crests has nothing to do with the target of the binding

Its like magically sucking all of someone's experience and being imo

Thats why the shaman and architect knowledge vaults work

[lone folio]

Fair fair

[stray grove]

In the case of the king’s brand the similarity to crests is that it represents an identity and that TK is able to “take on” that identity after burning the brand onto its shell in a similar manner to crests

But I don’t think this is meaningful and it’s clearly pretty different otherwise

[fresh badger]

You're pointless

[lone folio]

Damn

That's quite the insult 😔

[fresh badger]

😔 anyways kirb what do you think of pharlids being aura users

Like they have great slash level of aura

Their slashes are way bigger than their stubby claws

[lone folio]

What 😭

[stray grove]

I mean everything probably has aura

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet:

[lone folio]

Game mechanic?

Or game thing overall

Not sure if it's a game mechanic

[stray grove]

Predators using aura to extend the reach of their attacks would make sense to me

[fresh badger]

No like it extends past their sprite's reach

Like how nail arts use aura to extend nail slashes

[stray grove]

Hornet has nothing but aura

[lone folio]

Hollow knight ecosystem is crazy

[sinful nimbus]

aura farming is different from aura

An example of nothing but aura would be Crawfather or Last Judge

[lone folio]

"and here we see a grub getting blasted with a laser made of the souls of the innocent. A very effective hunting technique"

[stray grove]

Sure it’s unsuccessful aura farming

[stray grove]

Don’t feed grubs flesh

Also Grubberfly’s is probably a straight up soul beam not aura

It’s also their own soul not the soul of others

They also don’t hunt

Make better jokes next time please

[lone folio]

I wasn't even reffering to actual grubs that much 😭

Neither was the predator a grub

[stray grove]

Oh I misread that

[lone folio]

Idk some kind of snail shaman ancestor

[stray grove]

Well aura isn’t soul

[sinful nimbus]

Err

[stray grove]

I mean they might be related

[lone folio]

Yeah but I was giving an example on how a normal predator prey interaction is in the hollow knight ecosystem

[sinful nimbus]

Have you read the mebi tumblr writeup

[stray grove]

Ellina says the snail shaman has a powerful aura so it could be some measure of life energy

[stray grove]

Yes but I don’t agree with the entire thing

[visual glacier]

Ok silksong lore trivia: who is moss Druid’s only friend

[sinful nimbus]

I think it being focusing your soul or wtv is the most likely and simplest explanation

Y'know classic channeling your inner energy swordsman trope

[fresh badger]

I have TEN generations of soul built up and unleashed into this ONE SLASH

[stray grove]

I agree

[frosty gate]

Her pot

[visual glacier]

Wrong

[frosty gate]

I thought it was a crying emoji

[raven condor]

Lore wise, who be winning the fight, the last judge, or traitor lord?

[craggy smelt]

traitor lord is weak to bludgeoning weapons

[visual glacier]

Last judge probably

[sinful nimbus]

Traitors seem fairly scary in-lore

Killing Dryya and being stronger mantises and all that

My money would be on Traitor Lord

[bold eagle]

lore wise

[frosty gate]

Did TL even kill Dryya?

[sinful nimbus]

Its (weaker) subordinates did

[frosty gate]

I honestly can't remember much but I was under the impression Dryya just went fully Spacemarine on that fight and died of exhaustion

She doesn't seem heavily injured

[sinful nimbus]

Injuries generally aren't drawn on for artstyle reasons

[craggy smelt]

she isn't visibly injured, but she is dead

[upbeat fog]

With all the corpses this adds up but my question is why the traitor lord didn’t attack then

[craggy smelt]

sent wave after wave of men at her position

[sinful nimbus]

I mean at the end of the day she's dead and surrounded by also dead mantes which means they at least put up a fight against one of the toughest nuts around

[frosty gate]

I can't remember if this was all a theory, but I remember that TL was fucking scared and crazy

[sinful nimbus]

Dryya's death might be very recent and they could just be regrouping or wtv, White Lady thinks she's still alive

[frosty gate]

Since TL already lost it to the Infection, he thought Dryya was still there and was eternally waiting for her to pass and ambush her

[upbeat fog]

In hollow knights they still have visuals to show

[sinful nimbus]

Huh?

[frosty gate]

I think they mean that they show the visual damages in a corpse in Hollow Knight