sk-lore

[whole holly]

I understood every point you guys made, but every explanation raised some questions, let’s just conclude that we lack information about masks from game

[placid meadow]

Well, maybe no bugs have face and they all have masks

[solemn hinge]

We can say what is most likely true, though

[visual glacier]

Some bugs have a natural face, some have a natural mask, some have no face or mask

[placid meadow]

Yeah easy as that

[whole holly]

You are making it worse, then what is ancient mask

[viscid ridge]

Most of the points are true. Its just the health masks that are a small exception considering they border on gameplay and lore

[visual glacier]

It’s a mask made by the ancient civilization out of pale ore

That ore makes them protective of the bearer

[whole holly]

Oversimplified explanations usually make people draw wrong conclusions

[viscid ridge]

I kinda just see ancient masks as little shields, kinda like what quirrel has

[whole holly]

Unlike other masks it strengthens shell and is not visible

[whole holly]

Dreamer mask?

[visual glacier]

Yeah it makes sense if the dreamer masks would be made of pale ore

And runes

[placid meadow]

I don't think that Monomon Face is protecting him at all

[visual glacier]

Seems like a gameplay thing

[visual glacier]

Read the comic

[viscid ridge]

Not dreamer mask, just mask with extra protection

[placid meadow]

I'll go see

[viscid ridge]

It is in some sense, we see it protect him when Hornet attacks him

[whole holly]

There are no gameplay explanations in lore

[visual glacier]

What

[viscid ridge]

You're just very pedantic to the point of fault and talking yourself in circles.
I think thats why you have a hard time understanding

[whole holly]

Wdym, gameplay doesn’t justify lack of lore

[placid meadow]

Damn , it really is a shield , even use it as a hammer

[visual glacier]

Yeah it’s totally in the lore that sitting on a bench makes you fully healthy

[solemn hinge]

Monomon's Mask also actively lengthens his life

[whole holly]

Pedantic is when someone rightfully questions widespread conclusions?

[viscid ridge]

Quirrel is a goat. So sad he isnt the protag for Maskbearer anymore. Would've been cool to play as him

[solemn hinge]

As soon as he takes it off his knees crumble to dust lmfao

[visual glacier]

Or just makes him not realize how old he is, but it would make more sense if it made him very long lived considering how catastrophic it would be if the dreamers died of old age

[whole holly]

Well, resting gives person time to recover

[solemn hinge]

Yeah, and him being older than both Hornet and the Vessels is a lil weird if he's totally mortal

[visual glacier]

Mhm

[solemn hinge]

Then again, Ogrim is soooo

[viscid ridge]

Also totally a lore thing that charm notches make a lick of sense?

[placid meadow]

Poor knight

Must have hurt a lot

[whole holly]

They are literal spaces to attach and hold charm, it serves both gameplay and lore purposes

[viscid ridge]

Bro i saw a meme the other day of quirrel just chilling under the blue lake subnautica style

[visual glacier]

People always draw monomon mask with a crack because of the outdated promo art 😭

[placid meadow]

Maybe Quirrel isn't dead and he just leaved

[viscid ridge]

Exactly with masks

[solemn hinge]

Sometimes we must consider that not everything has a lore explanation

Sometimes it's just gameplay ong ong

[visual glacier]

I don’t think he would leave his nail if he didn’t wanna die

[viscid ridge]

Quirrel isn't dead

[whole holly]

Let’s just say mask maker and ancient civilization understand masks differently

[placid meadow]

Who know if he didn't get telported or captured when we leaved

[frosty gate]

No, of course not, can't you see Hornet and TK obviosluy have foresight? That's why they die and go back to a bench

It's like Katana Zero

[placid meadow]

Maybe we will have Hollow Knight : Quirrell Journey

[frosty gate]

Hornet is Chronos

[whole holly]

And that there are lot of varieties of masks

[solemn hinge]

I think that intent very strongly shows that Quirrel died there

Trust tho, we'll get the Quirrel roguelike set before HK

[viscid ridge]

Hes just playing subnautica

[visual glacier]

“Spend a final moment with Quirrel” hmmm what could that mean

[placid meadow]

100% AGREE

[visual glacier]

He must have gotten abducted by aliens

[placid meadow]

Maybe

[viscid ridge]

Fish aliens

Cause subnautica and all that

[silk dirge]

does this mean we will see him in pharloom bay

[whole holly]

To be honest lore needs too much expansion for game to be based on quirrel, both gameplay and narrative would be restricted, that’s why there’s a comic

[visual glacier]

It’s a lake

[viscid ridge]

Yeah he lives with the hermit crab guy

[placid meadow]

And yet we are getting Zote Boat in the future

[viscid ridge]

Its a joke my guy

[viscid ridge]

Also pablo

[whole holly]

Lot of people want it seriously

[frosty gate]

They shouldn't

[silk dirge]

pharloom bay is a sea likely

[placid meadow]

I mean, I'm sure that we will get some Quirrel mod eventually

[viscid ridge]

I just think this art is sick

[visual glacier]

You know what I meant

[silk dirge]

oh wait im stupid

[whole holly]

Zote is son of greyroot and lord fool of Course we will get game about him

[viscid ridge]

Talking about the blue lake, pharloom bay is next to an ocean

[visual glacier]

Pharloom bay isn’t canon yet

[whole holly]

Pablo is child of Nyleth and Khann, so yes we need his game

[placid meadow]

Yeah but like you remenber how weak he is ? I mean it would be hell for him to survive

[viscid ridge]

Wr do kinda have evidence in the bilewater weavenest, but we just cant access it cause the door to the bay is locked

[visual glacier]

Doesn’t mean it’s canon

[placid meadow]

Never hear of him before

[whole holly]

Very possible , with existing hallownest and pharloom assets I think it will be bridged for quarrels adventures

[solemn hinge]

WHO invited pablo 😭

[viscid ridge]

Its also mentioned a ton that there is a ocean next to pharloom, so technically not canon, but its still there

[whole holly]

Pablo ,famous planned protagonist of team cherrys upcoming game

[viscid ridge]

Pablo is the main guy, Hornet and the knight are background

[visual glacier]

Mentioned maybe once, not even an ocean just salt

[placid meadow]

Yeah, in your dreams

[frosty gate]

I will die on this hill, I still think Pharloom is in an island

[whole holly]

Just a joke, but he has life ended he will be fine

[whole holly]

More likely than quirrel at least

[placid meadow]

It is not possible

[viscid ridge]

In the weavenest its just salt, but there is an npc that mentions the ocean. I just cant remember right now so sorry if it sounds like im making something up 😅

[visual glacier]

I don’t think so

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-bateman-why-not-you-stupid-bastard-gif-23978200

It is a joke don't take the insult

[viscid ridge]

Ill go look and report on another time

Seem fair?

[frosty gate]

It just fits so great with the gif

[whole holly]

Zoteboat to meet Pablo sounds good

[solemn hinge]

Pretty sure it is mentioned

[visual glacier]

Ok I figured it out

Alchemist mentions “salt stricken waters” at the edge of pharloom

[placid meadow]

Because we saw the path leading to hallownest which mean the two are connected, it is indeed possible that Pharloom is connected to the sea at the east but it is not a island

[frosty gate]

I am assuming that the wastelands used to be a sea and now they're not

It's just the bottom

Hence "Sandsea wastes"

Or whatever its called

[placid meadow]

It is possible that at one time Pharloom was underwater and that when the water dissapeared, most of it went in underground lake while the rest stayed

It is how most Dessert are created

[frosty gate]

Agreed, also Zylotl mentions "The Mainland"

And I will die believing he is not referring to the Pharloom central

[whole holly]

Well yes, explains Coral Gorge , and Pharloom Bay being Bay, there seems to be huge water source

[placid meadow]

Central ? Which central and of what ? The Windmill ?

[frosty gate]

"Central pharloom" like the citadel and stuff

The center of the kingdom

[placid meadow]

It's greymoor

Not the Citadel

[frosty gate]

Not the point I'm trying to make

[ornate pier]

If pharloom is an island then how tf did the envoys get to hallownest

[placid meadow]

By boat ?

[frosty gate]

My point is that Zylotl isn't referring to that side of Pharloom and that he is referring to a mainland beyond pharloom

[ornate pier]

If anything the mainland probably means the surface or something

[frosty gate]

I'm under the assumption that it used to be a sea and it dried up

My other theory is that Pharloom is inside a Volcano lmao

[placid meadow]

Yeah noo

Everything would be like Deep Docks if so

[frosty gate]

Inactive volcano, mind you

[placid meadow]

Still the abyss wouldn't even exist

[frosty gate]

What?

[viscid ridge]

I dont think pharloom is an island, the ocean is just in a very large cavern next to pharloom

[unique canopy]

The Citadel has an entire steamwork machinery cog core with more advanced metallurgy than Hallownest, which itself had functional tram lines, and it's supposed to be a stretch that the edge of Pharloom could have boats?

[placid meadow]

Well, there is still lava even in a inactive volcano

[frosty gate]

We access the abyss below a pool of Magma

[ornate pier]

I feel like pharloom bay's ocean would be entirely underground. Like there's just underground seas in this world because why not

[frosty gate]

And there is

Just not as much

[viscid ridge]

I don't think pharloom is volcano, it just happens to run through a magma vein

[placid meadow]

Yeah but it would be entirely flooded by lava

Exactly

[viscid ridge]

Couse you have to remember pharlooms cone shape is mostly artificial

[lethal burrow]

Nobody says "the mainland" in LA talking about Nebraska 💀

[frosty gate]

Fair, the Volcano thing is mostly a stretch that I thought once

[placid meadow]

Nahh, that's just Shakra who didn't make enough maps

[frosty gate]

Fuck LA tho?

[frosty gate]

Wdym artificial?

[viscid ridge]

The cone shape is made by the citidel, not cause thats what it originally looked like

[placid meadow]

I think that it's just the Citadel who choose which area should be considered conquered in their kingdom

[frosty gate]

I will drop the volcano thing but still, how do we know that?

[placid meadow]

I believe that they didn't conquer the neigbooring tribes such as the one of Shakra tribes

[viscid ridge]

Cause im like 99% sure the citadel and the cradle wasn't there originally?

[frosty gate]

Still I will die thinking Pharloom is in what used to be an island

[frosty gate]

The Cradle was afawk, at the very least there's nothing that proves otherwise

[lethal burrow]

fine then, Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan.

[lethal burrow]

What is this?

[placid meadow]

An early map of Pharloom

I believe that this map represent Pharloom at the time of the Weavers

[frosty gate]

Idk, I've mostly heard "The Mainland" used for island to refer to the like, the proper country

[viscid ridge]

I doubt it, as far as we know the ocean on the right of pharloom is the only one, i dont think it loops around. We also see other caverns like the sprint weavenest right under the bay and the karak entrance on the left of pharloom that doesn't seem to have an ocean. Thats why i think its just a very large cavern that has water, kinda like the pale lake but bigger

[lethal burrow]

Another one to add to my list of weird maps then

[lethal burrow]

Read the context

[frosty gate]

Fuck I wasn't wrong

[viscid ridge]

These maps are getting more ridiculous with every one i see 🤣🤣

[frosty gate]

Needed this

[placid meadow]

Hey, I found my house

[lethal burrow]

this one is lame because it's just an overlap copy paste and it has duplicates and things don't even cleanly line up like some things are half on top of other things

[solemn hinge]

That is EXACTLY why it is funny

[viscid ridge]

What the actual fuck is thatt

[lethal burrow]

memes are funniest when they actually have effort behind them

[frosty gate]

I know that rivers are sweet and what Karak was a river, but Coral can't form in rivers can it?

[solemn hinge]

Shitposts are also funny

[frosty gate]

Genuine questions by the way

[viscid ridge]

Bro i love how they included the city of steel like 3 times 😭😭💀

[frosty gate]

I have no idea

[solemn hinge]

Shout out to the 8 HK maps 🔥

[frosty gate]

Isn't coral a Sea Waters thing only?

[lethal burrow]

The natural result of copy pasting the same map they found online

[placid meadow]

It can but only specific coral

[lethal burrow]

Only red coral

[placid meadow]

Yup, every other type need salt water

[viscid ridge]

In real life yeah, but i always got the impression that the coral river was a clear water river. But we don't know alot about it so im not gonna make any theories on that

[lethal burrow]

I would say the waterfall coming from the river in karak floated down to mossgrotto, which is why it's so green

[placid meadow]

Each coral has a specific temperature if the water was cold enough, they could have indeed be coral in fresh water

[frosty gate]

Yeah that was my question, idk Karak looks very sea-like, idk, i still think it's an island

[viscid ridge]

Actually i thought initially it may have come from the coral river, but in current game its more likely coming from shellwood maybe?

[lethal burrow]

What like the water from Shellwood?

How do you know that isn't also from the river?

[viscid ridge]

You can think that even if i think its wrong.

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-friends-dab-dab-me-up-super-monkey-ball-mr-boss-gif-11903531005687623995

[placid meadow]

I mean I believe that Nyleth roots spreaded and managed to create Moss Grotto

[viscid ridge]

Like i think earlier in development when the blasted steps was still the coral gorge, thats where moss grottos water came from.

But seeing as blasted steps, karak and wormways are all completely dry, the water probably comes from shellwood which is the nearest source of water.

[lethal burrow]

But they look different

[placid meadow]

Wait ? Was Nyleth fountain still flowing ?

[viscid ridge]

Bro do you like super monkey ball??

[lethal burrow]

well I think it probably began karak and then the grotto became self sustaining

[placid meadow]

Well, nature have his ways

[lethal burrow]

We have no indication It's an infinite abyss fountain where it goes on forever.

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but still, moss grotto has a running source of water, which seems to not to have a source in current game.

[lethal burrow]

It also has light which doesn't have a source in the current game

[placid meadow]

Yes we do

The fountain is dry when we approach but in the dream, it actually flow

[viscid ridge]

True true

[lethal burrow]

how is that an indication that it's an infinite source of water like the abyss bowl is for void?

[lethal burrow]

it could just work like a regular fountain and cycle water...

[viscid ridge]

Doesn't it dry after killing her?

[viscid ridge]

Oh great timing

[placid meadow]

It doesn't because it was already dried out

It's only in her dream that water flow

[viscid ridge]

Are you sure? Is the fountain even in the dream?

[placid meadow]

Yes it is

[lethal burrow]

we appear where we head into the dream in all the other dreams

I don't think this one is any different is it?

[ornate pier]

There's no fountain in the dream

[placid meadow]

You wake up near it

[ornate pier]

What are you guys talking about

The fountain is in the real world

[viscid ridge]

I am probably gonna sound stupid for being so confident, but i dont think it is?

[ornate pier]

The dream just has this like open area at the stary

[lethal burrow]

It is if I remember right. I don't know, you can get footage like I guess but you already got screenshots

[viscid ridge]

I looked at footage and you are wrong

The fountain flows when you get to the shrine, there is no fountain inside the dream, and it only dries up after you kill nyleth

[placid meadow]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RdErKy1PXb0

[placid meadow]

Yup it's that

So they was water all along

[viscid ridge]

We can even see in your screenshot that the fountain is dry along with the pollip heart, so it should have been pretty obvious

[placid meadow]

Well, I'm sorry if I don't remenber every detail

I'm sure that you don't even know that there is a secret room near Bellheart

[viscid ridge]

I mean like i should have noticed not you man dw 👍

[viscid ridge]

You mean the pondcatcher room?

I hope it gets added cause i wanna know where reed lives

[placid meadow]

There is one that lead to nothing

[viscid ridge]

The one next to the elevator?

[placid meadow]

yup

[viscid ridge]

Yeah thats the pondcatcher room

[placid meadow]

Well, he can walk through walls apparently

[sleek lily]

Do you guys think that Vog actually fought the dead Pinstress?

[pale narwhal]

i didnt see anything linking them

[lone folio]

I'm starting to see a pattern... Old hearts and disappearing water

First thought is that water just dries upp whenever one dies for some reason but Khann isnt dead

Idk is the life of the area itself dependant on the powerful bug that resides in it?

Or yk it doesn't mean anything and it disappears for dramatic effect

🤷‍♂️

[lethal burrow]

why is trobbios stage connected to the underworks?

[lone folio]

maybe bugs from the underworks got to go watch a show?

[muted lantern]

He sabotages ventilation ducts for his special effects

[lone folio]

idk

[lethal burrow]

Wishful thinking

[lone folio]

Yeah I doubt they would do that

They would make the chairs dirty!

Blasphemy!

Oh yeah wait doesn't that elevator lead to some citadel ruins and then to the vault guy?

Maybe there was something there at one point and now it just collapsed

[dusk kraken]

Maybe it's for convenience sake because the architect works down there and they could make stage play robots/automatons

Well what I'm referring to was the things in this room they could be costumes or something and I could be mistaken

[ornate pier]

I assumed those were dead bugs?

[foggy fractal]

erm actually it isn't an early map of pharloom that represented pharloom at the time of the Weavers but rather a speculative map that was trying to predict what Pharloom was gonna be like in game prior to release 🤓 https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1l3aiei/my_silksong_map_speculation_which_ive_aimed_to/

[loud wren]

Anyone know what’s with the village above the cradle

[frigid belfry]

nameless town, a few inhabitants lived their for a while, but nearly all of them were led down into the citadel from false promises, its one of the few places on the map free from gms's influence

[limpid summit]

It shows that in the early stages of the Citadel bugs were lured down by the Weavers in order to work

Before the pilgrimage made bugs want to go there themselves

[dusk kraken]

Idk some seemed to be floating or standing upright with maybe a rod supporting them but they could just be bugs because robots have vacant or glowing eye sockets while the eyes here on the masks are filled

[ornate pier]

Yeah they look like scrollreader masks

[dusk kraken]

Mhm mhm or judges in blasted steps

[dusk kraken]

I've always wanted to believe that garmond was a part of the surface village because he describes its reckoning as a result of the haunting and the silk memory we see there describes others as being lost and lured underground, that part is pretty broad but garmonds headware looks like the surface memento which is a design detail that shows up three times garmond's head wear, the surface buildings, and the memento which is just my thinking when connecting these points

[edgy nebula]

my theory is that these are teenage vaultborn outfits

kind of an inbetween of vaultborn and scrollreaders

[dusk kraken]

That's a funny idea they'll take side gigs as actors when they're teens but it'll probably be limited to fiction whatever they're able to act out because they're so secretive

But it does look possible the middle stage looks to be draped in a dark cloak surrounding its body which could be the developed vault born wings during a process of wilting away before losing flight

[bleak sequoia]

my friend has a theory that after their death, lugoli becomes the apprentice to the god of cooking, chef boyardee

[craggy smelt]

your friend is a genius

[edgy nebula]

finally some good fucking theories

[quartz thistle]

That’s amazing

[unique tangle]

theyre theatre masks

probably for stageplays and entertainment

[edgy nebula]

when did this channel get so dead

[unique tangle]

on like

the stage

[craggy smelt]

the lore is all done now
we are free

[edgy nebula]

gone are the days of like 8 people discussing 3 topics at a time

no more lore, pack it up guys

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/trobbio-silksong-hollow-knight-tormented-trobbio-scared-gif-13022162881477030202

[craggy smelt]

gonna go check out Constance once I wrap up some work stuff

see if it has any lore

was gonna say that a paintbrush weapon seems like something that would happen in holloworld, then I remembered that it already did

[unique tangle]

saying HK has no lore was a joke

but it seems SS truly has no lore

the joke was on us the entire time

[silk dirge]

this cooks https://youtu.be/hDKpzFHeLcE?si=I1HRtbhFCUAFZYED

[unique tangle]

oh wait theyre literally just that

i never thought to check this before

[edgy nebula]

filenames dont really mean anything

[unique tangle]

huzzah

theyre just theatre costumes on mannequins

[unique tangle]

thats false

you shouldnt use filenames as main evidence

but they can be good as supporting evidence

they give an idea of what TC might have been thinking when creating something

and these things were created to be theatre costumes

which matches which the theory that theyre just... theatre costumes

[fathom hill]

Holy

[timber pond]

It has a similar amount, its just way more obvious to most pepole. An average player can determine to a much greater extent WHAT has happened. But it is much harder to pinpoint WHEN it happened , which to be fair, is something you cant certainly state in hollow knight either with 100% certainty.

[unique tangle]

HK just has more depth and weird mysteries and little plot threads to follow

[silk dirge]

i think its also worth noting phantom and hive knight have very similar looking attacks with like the kinda triangular looking stab

which hornet also has for her hunter dash attack

[unique tangle]

like the vitruvian grub, or the deepnest trilobite statue weird stuff like that along with just more lore heavy dialogue in general

[fathom hill]

I always assumed that yeah phantom was in a way mirroring hornet

[unique tangle]

SS just sadly lacks that

[fathom hill]

and hornet has a lot of similarities with the bees

cuz yknow they trained her, so its a chain

but that's really interesting

[graceful grail]

I am retiring from silksong and Hollowknight entirely.

It was a fun ride but it is done 🫡

[timber pond]

Yeah but those things aren't very heavily debated because they don't really matter very much. I would agree with you on Soul Void and essence and how they interact with the world, but those are persistent mysteries still that are being unveiled bit by bit

[fathom hill]

yeah and hornet's dash is also like that I'm sure

[silk dirge]

yeah hornets hunter dash attack is exactly the same as hive knights

[fathom hill]

Hive knight and hornet makes sense

why phantom though

It's just to show the parallel?

[silk dirge]

yeah

[unique tangle]

idk i think its a bit more fundemental than that, like just look at something like comparing the stilkin tribe to the mushroom tribe
if we dig into mushroom lore we can learn about their differing relations between hallownest and deepnest, their unique type of hivemind communication, their knowledge of the wyrm, and some other stuff
if we try to dig into the stilkin lore we learn that they hate the citadel and they kill everyone and...... thats it

[silk dirge]

anyways i dont want to hear anymore of hornets fighting style doesnt match the bees

when it clearly is supposed to 😭

[unique tangle]

there's nothing else to really go off for the stilkin, and imo this is the case for most of pharloom's lore compared to hallownest's lore

[silk dirge]

note that the cut vespa fight had her do diagonal pogos like hornet

[unique tangle]

theres a lot of content in theory

but its all very shallow

you cant really discuss really deep into it

[silk dirge]

i think the design intent of hunters crest was very much the bees

[unique tangle]

so there ends up being nothing much to discuss in this channel

[timber pond]

Yes because everything is based around the citadel.

But there are plenty of non citadel related mystery like you mentioned.
Lifeblood, greyroot, Steelcity, Sandsea Waste,Blackbarrens, The bay area, ancient civilization in pharloom, who each mumified weaver was ect.

But we already discussed those

[silk dirge]

slabflies doesnt count as real discussion imo

[unique tangle]

its not just the esoteric stuff, i mean just fundemental lore

HK had the world basically revolve around PK and Hallownest too

[fathom hill]

someone more versed in music than me said it's a common thing in classical music

[unique tangle]

but it didnt neglect the lore and story of its other areas and tribes

[fathom hill]

I'm not a music guy though so second handed

[silk dirge]

i feel like with silksong tc had to make a larger world

[timber pond]

Well the thing is: we understand silk far more coming in from hollow knight. So not really a fair comparison

[silk dirge]

and if they tried to go in depth with each area it would be overwhelming

[unique tangle]

thats not really relevant?

i meant like just pharloom in isolation

[timber pond]

Well pharloom is based around silk

[unique tangle]

disregard preexisting knowledge

[timber pond]

So if we understand it more then its "less mysterious "

[unique tangle]

thats not what im referring to

[timber pond]

The citadel and its history is based around silk

And since we have alot of answers to how silk works. We just understand it?

[unique tangle]

that is still not the point

[silk dirge]

tbh i feel like tc was trying to do something different with silksong lore

the story in silksong is a lot more direct

than in hk for example

[unique tangle]

sure the citadel revolves around silk, a concept we somewhat already knew but the history of pharloom does not involve silk in every nook and cranny

[silk dirge]

so i wonder if they cut out that stuff bc it wouldnt work with the more direct story they are going for

this feels kinda like story vs lore type of deal

[unique tangle]

TC building up new lore for the stilkin tribe and their history, and the history of their region, would not be affected by our preexisting knowledge of concepts like silk soul and void

[unique tangle]

very much so yeah, TC focused on a story this time rather than lore and worldbuilding

which is why i think this channel doesnt get much to talk about

[silk dirge]

i guess there are merits to both approaches

[timber pond]

Thier history is based around the mental archeology team chery go through when creating the world. If the singular fact they have to go off of is that the citadel has shaped this current world, it would make sense that in current day any history of how they lived when in clean waters would have been erased

[silk dirge]

i mean celeste doesnt have lore but that doesnt mean it has a bad story so like

it depends

[timber pond]

Pale king went through trouble to keep his kingdoms history from dying

[craggy smelt]

SS does feel more 'complete' to me - I don't think it's lacking, I just find myself without many questions about it that are unanswered
most of the questions I have about the lore are still from the first game (steel masters, wyrms, etc.)

[unique tangle]

that is... still unrelated?

the mushrooms having a lot of lore wasnt the PK's doing

[foggy fractal]

given tc's attitude towards lore we'll probably never know anything more about the wyrms, or any hb for that matter

[opal magnet]

The reason hornet takes way more damage than the knight is because the knight is voided due to void

[unique tangle]

and not just the mushrooms, all the tribes in HK have more lore and history to be found than the pharloom ones

[opal magnet]

And voided enemies have double hp

[timber pond]

Because they weren't based around ahllownest itself. The citadel plants its roots everywhere

[craggy smelt]

curse you TC, you horrible fucking monsters...

[timber pond]

Most of these feel like mystery they are building on anyway

[craggy smelt]

the waiting... the waiting...

[timber pond]

Like all of the "esotirc" stuff is still there, its just that pharloom dosent have much to do with it

Pharloom itself was an esoteric idea in the shape of the weavers den

[unique tangle]

ok yes and? lets take a citadel owned zone then, even those areas lack much depth and history to talk about

deep docks has workers brought in from forgehome and they mine... and thats it

[timber pond]

The order of history is the main discussion as it was with hallownest

[unique tangle]

yeah and i dont think it should have been

its lame that the only remaining plausible discussion is placing around a few citadel events on the timeline

it pales in comparison to the depth of the lore built up in HK

[silk dirge]

i mean i feel like that was intentional tbh

[timber pond]

Thats just the identity of the world based on its Foundations.

[silk dirge]

good or bad that can be argued

[edgy nebula]

or trying to find out the karak timeline once and for all

[timber pond]

Its many foundations built over eachother

[unique tangle]

it definitely was ye i find it a worse approach than how TC handled HK

[timber pond]

Instead of a bunch of independent histories

Its a diffrent archeology

[unique tangle]

it just was more captivating for longer and offered more debate, discussion, and varied takes

[timber pond]

This is how fast old hollow knight chat went lol

[silk dirge]

i mean this channel does offer "captivating" debates

you could say it that way

[unique tangle]

i dont mean this channel

[timber pond]

I think you overestimate the amount of time pepole talked in here in hollow knights prime

[unique tangle]

i just mean in general

i usually talk lore elsewhere

and its dead there too lol

cause SS has like no lore

[unique tangle]

that has no correlation with my statement

[silk dirge]

anyways can we go back to talking about vespa

[timber pond]

Again its diffrent lore because the archeology is diffrent.

[silk dirge]

i wonder why phantom is supposed to be a parallel to vespa

[unique tangle]

what is an "archeology" in this context

[timber pond]

The way team cherry develops the games.

[silk dirge]

i think the ending of phantom and the vespa scene being the same are very intentional

[timber pond]

Did you read thier most recent interview?

[silk dirge]

but what does that mean

[timber pond]

Mabye phantom was also taught in a similar way

By like pinstresses or something lol

[unique tangle]

yeah and their game direction this time focused on a central narrative with less lore

[timber pond]

Or pinstresses art was widespread

[unique tangle]

which as i stated i dont really like since its led to a state where we dont have much to discuss

[silk dirge]

it was also a good observation by that person that phantom is the ONLY time hornet learns a new ability without binding someone

[unique tangle]

you can like this style of story design thats alright

but i think its undeniable that there is much less actual depth to explore in the lore of SS's world

[cedar skiff]

does pinstress count

[timber pond]

Not intentionally. Thats just what happens in a society built on top of multiple other societies that each existed for long amounts of time. Thats fine.

[silk dirge]

no

needle strike is just needle training stuff

phantom she learns a new silk skill

without binding

[cedar skiff]

i mean needle strike is an ability i think you mean silk skikl

oh yeah

[unique tangle]

that still doesnt really correlate

[cedar skiff]

phantoms sheer aura in the room was accidentally binded

[silk dirge]

i meant like out of silk skills and ancestral arts

[unique tangle]

being built stop multiple other societies should allow for a lot of lore

[silk dirge]

that is the only one she gets

without binding

[unique tangle]

like the DS series and HK both followed this principle of dead kingdoms on top of dead kingdoms and other still barely alive kingdoms

[cedar skiff]

i like the theory that she relearned to parry in the monent just the way vespa taught her

the parallel is surely intentional

[silk dirge]

i mean hornet just learned a new parry

[timber pond]

Not when they existed so long ago, that they have been nearly completely overwritten, which makes sense.

[unique tangle]

thats the most optimal setting for developing a breadth of history and world building

[silk dirge]

but i get what you mean

like you can still parry before

[cedar skiff]

im inclined to believe so even if the vespa sheet is cut content

[silk dirge]

yeah i feel the same way about cut content as river said about file names

[unique tangle]

yeah and i could maybe see it for karak but it doesnt excuse the ants, the stilkin or even like currently running citadel sub-sections

[cedar skiff]

its one of the few cut content things i consider sort of relevant because i think the fight will definitely come back anyway

[unique tangle]

a town like bellhart doesnt have any lore or history

[silk dirge]

it can be a guide to what tc was thinking

[cedar skiff]

true

[copper sable]

how does hornet respawn? what is that black thing when you break the cocoon

[silk dirge]

and the vespa spritesheet from what ive seen is very reminiscent of hunters crest

[unique tangle]

which is an incredibly poor writing decision imo

[cedar skiff]

i mean the thought process for cutting coral gorge reveals a lot for how they intended to shape the games narrative

[edgy nebula]

her lingering regret

[cedar skiff]

and strung to serve being cut does the same for what the endings are supposed to entail and how they come over

[timber pond]

Do stiltkin really NEED some higher being or collective doohikey? Nah not really. Its dosent seem like they represent anyone. They are like cavemen. The ants, mabye would be nice to learn about.

[edgy nebula]

respawning in hk isnt canon so it doesnt really matter and we dont know why it happens

[copper sable]

ohh okay thanks mate

[unique tangle]

even then, something like the ancient civilization which is one which fits your example has so much more lore developed in HK

[copper sable]

i thought it was canon in the og hk

[unique tangle]

than like any of said examples in SS

[unique tangle]

i would really rather they had like actual lore

i know youre exaggerrating with the whole collective doohickey thing but im not really looking for that

just history, how their tribe worked, maybe something about how they used to interact with greymoor or how they felt about the citadel when it first started, anything simple

[dusk kraken]

Yeah thanks for that info for a earlier convo it was one of my thoughts as well, looking into the sprites also helps a lot

[silk dirge]

anyways my takeaway from the vespa stuff is that scene in red memory is a lot deeper than we probably thought

i was always a 3q fan tbh

[timber pond]

Right. And thier mystery was expanded on in silksong?

Look you better get used to these types of kingdoms happening in HK Lore. For the one primary reason that:Pharloom is bassicaly an answer to our weaver nest "mystery".

Primarily because when they make more content for HK, it will be based on some of these mysteries that will inherently make things less mysterious.

[silk dirge]

theres some people here who are like

it doesnt make sense for hornet to have done anything outside of deepnest

which like 3q is a much more interesting narrative than doing shit in deepnest imo

[unique tangle]

why are you saying it like a threat that id better get used to it lol i sure hope i wont

i hope in the future TC could build a more in depth world with more lore again like they had with HK

or i can just discuss lore of other games that have more depth

[silk dirge]

silksong does

theyre just hiding it

[unique tangle]

we'll get the plasmium dlc

with 500 new lines of dialogue

[timber pond]

If they are answers to questions posed in Hollow knight itself. That mystery will be inherently "solved"

[silk dirge]

let me introduce you to the mystery icon

[timber pond]

And no more "discussion "

[silk dirge]

and the fact tc lied to acmi about map dates

and the fact this sounds like a conspiracy theory 😭

[unique tangle]

thats... what?

what does that have to do with my point

im not asking them to answer questions in HK

im asking them to world build new lore

keyword new

[timber pond]

The lore will get thinner as things are answered. And eventually "new" lore won't exist because the world has been filled out

[unique tangle]

tell me about it

i feel like im going insane

the goalpost keeps moving

[unique tangle]

that is literally not how it works

[silk dirge]

my theory is tc gave acmi an intentionally old map bc theres more to act 3 thats being hidden and that relates to this

[unique tangle]

do you really think TC has the creative well of a puddle and that they really cant come up with new stories and new lore

[silk dirge]

wheres the rune harp

[edgy nebula]

the secret 4th act where hornet puts on her foil hat and starts making up theories and discussing lore in #sk-lore

[silk dirge]

why are they using this icon when they could use the everbloom which would be equivalent to how void heart was the foil for hk

i know i sound insane but think about it

[unique tangle]

what were these badges like for HK?

[silk dirge]

yeah

[unique tangle]

also that looks like a quest marker sprite

[silk dirge]

yeah it is

a cut one

idk what it means

[timber pond]

No but not everything needs it. I don't really think stiltkin need it because they serve thier purpose. And most other regions of pharloom serve a citadel purpose because the game is about the citadel crushing everything else. It just sounds like you have beef with the foundational concept and want another hallownest.

[silk dirge]

this is all really funny rambling but the idea of tc sending acmi misinfo on purpose is really funny

so im going to keep believing

[timber pond]

The reason hollow knights independent histories work is because they fill in the identity of the pale king more

[silk dirge]

that map is NOT from august 2025

[unique tangle]

its called criticism but if you wanna call it beef sure i have beef with how TC wrote pharloom and would have actually preferred another hallownest-level of depth youre exactly right

[unique tangle]

oh yea it isnt

its got some weird room layouts

like mask maker

the path up to mask maker is not how it is ingame

[silk dirge]

if im somehow correct tc is hiding like half of act 3 im actually gonna die

[timber pond]

But its obvious how they got to this point. They don't "write" they discover through a "archeological" method based on distinct facts about it.

Mabye write to team cherry and say "hey your next concept should be like a traveling city or something instead of this boring ass dominating society that o hate"

[silk dirge]

biggest prank in video gaming history

[visual glacier]

What’s the topic

[silk dirge]

all bc i saw that random ass icon

[unique tangle]

didnt TC say they felt pretty complete with act 3 in the interview? or something along those lines

[silk dirge]

and thought way too deeply on it 😭

[unique tangle]

unless they were just LYING

[silk dirge]

i mean knowing them this is a possibility

[unique tangle]

why would i write that to TC

[timber pond]

Because what if they do another foundational concept you don't like?

[silk dirge]

what fun is the world without crackpot dlc theories

[unique tangle]

if they do that again id just be back discussing how i dont like it in some random discord channel

like i am now

why would i write to them

its not that deep

[timber pond]

To do something about it idk

[unique tangle]

why do you want me to do something about it

[timber pond]

I accept things or do something about it. Its not that deep.

Because its just how I think. Stating my opinion.

[visual glacier]

?

[unique tangle]

oh just discussing how shallow SS lore feels in comparison to HK

its got more focus on plot and story

but in turn sacrifices lore and world building

which is a criticism i have of the game

[visual glacier]

I don’t really agree with that

[foggy fractal]

just like hollow knight, silksong also has no lore

[unique tangle]

fair enough

[timber pond]

Its just a diffrent lore in a diffrent direction. Have team chery dig sideways instead dof up or down next time I guess.

[unique tangle]

i just find it a bit dreary how stale the lore channels are tbh

[timber pond]

Or down again idk

[visual glacier]

You could also thing about the lore added in dlc, maybe that’s tipping the scales for you

Path of pain, a ton of dialogue, Grimm troupe, Godhome,

Ect

[unique tangle]

im just comparing base game HK lore with SS lore

just the fundamentals of the world

[visual glacier]

I agree with that kinda

The dream realm was handled unlike anything I can think of in silksong

[unique tangle]

like just pulling up a previous message

[timber pond]

Mushrooms are collective and hate pale king is just as deep as stiltiks smell and hate the citadel because they smell man

[unique tangle]

this is how i feel about the fundemental lore in SS

[visual glacier]

They also steal bugs souls

That’s pretty badass

[unique tangle]

i think a lot of the areas and such lack development

[unique tangle]

thats just groal smh

[visual glacier]

Not necessarily

[unique tangle]

i mean we dont see any of the other stilkin use spells

[timber pond]

They have silks catchers near the groal tablet

So they harvest that at least

[visual glacier]

“Their shells are ours. Their souls are ours.
Our hate is forever.” Do you really think this is about groal

And a singular shaman

[timber pond]

Also Pinstress green might be a stiltkin

[visual glacier]

Not to mention the pilgrim sacks

[unique tangle]

i do think they all stole soul yeah that part i agree with but when it comes to the actuall effects and consequences of that we only see groal actually utilize the stolen soul

[timber pond]

It would make sense if pinstresses were from each reigon

[visual glacier]

Cause they are the chief

[unique tangle]

also we dont really get to know how they ended up figuring out all this soul stuff

unlike the sanctum which was started by radiance's whispers and then carried on with lots of research

the stilkin kinda just... manage to collect soul and twist it into spells without any details

[timber pond]

They can read and write clearly

And snail shamans record thier spells

[silk dirge]

both sanctum and stilkin did it the same way

they extracted knowledge or smth from a shaman

i believe where you get shade soul from is a dead shaman

[timber pond]

And also, soul is like blood in this world practically

[silk dirge]

that is having its whatever extracted

[unique tangle]

i mean kinda maybe? you have one strung up shaman vs a whole facility's worth of research and machinery

its not quite the same way

i think it would make sense if the shaman taught them how to extract and use soul before they killed the guy

[silk dirge]

soul sanctum does appear to have started work off of a shaman

[unique tangle]

but thats speculation and i kinda wish the game explored more of it

[timber pond]

Soul sanctum clearly didn't do that

[unique tangle]

thats the crux of the issue anyways

[timber pond]

They have extractor wires hooked up to him

[unique tangle]

i just think theres so much more the game couldve explored history-wise

[silk dirge]

the nature of shamans is interesting to me

[visual glacier]

Silksong is pretty rich in history

But I understand

[silk dirge]

their soul powers dont seem like something a mortal bug could use easily

[timber pond]

Both games use the history of surrounding tribes to support the capitals of each tho

[silk dirge]

like its clear groal isnt actually that good at soul usage

[timber pond]

Its just diffrent because hallownest and the citadel are diffrent

[silk dirge]

how shamans use soul vs how groal uses soul imo is analogous to like

how weavers use silk vs how choir clappers use silk

[visual glacier]

We never see shamans use a spell in combat

I don’t count snare

[silk dirge]

i mean thats bc we never fight one lol

id like to imagine they have pretty powerful abilities

[unique tangle]

i think i disagree there, like lets explore again with another example, whats the lore of the ants
they were united by karmelita, theyre hunters, theyre now mostly haunted, some of them are shunned for being mottled

[timber pond]

I mean, they seem to do everything they can to NOT want a fight

[unique tangle]

like compared to a similar equivalent with the mantises the mantises have a ton more

[silk dirge]

hive is a better comparison for skarr

[visual glacier]

Not really

[timber pond]

Yeahhh not really

They didn't vibe with pale king. So he made them a bargain to keep deepnest out

Thats it

[silk dirge]

maybe earlier in development skarr were supposed to be similar to mantis tribe

[visual glacier]

Mantises are a tribe with 4 rulers, one took in the infection and got exiled

[silk dirge]

but now they are more equivalent to hive

[unique tangle]

they made treaty with the city to hold off deepnest which means they were strong enough to face hallownest, they treat strong warriors with great respect, and their young sleep in pouches :)

theyre strong minded and hold off the infection with will

and they killed an elder

[visual glacier]

I don’t think that’s what it means

Pale king made as many treaties as he could lol

[timber pond]

Ants sleep in hammocks, they wared with the citadel for a while. While ALSO being at odds with other tribes and they each had important roles to protect karmelita

Idk seems pretty equivalent to me🤷‍♂️

[unique tangle]

i mean ig with the mushrooms kinda but he also just straight annexed parts of GP

[visual glacier]

Yeah, that was the treaty

Pilgrims stay on the path, they are safe

[unique tangle]

nono

QG

[visual glacier]

Oh

We don’t know that timeline

[timber pond]

Hello?

[visual glacier]

White lady could’ve taken that before the wyrm’s arrival

[unique tangle]

lemme check the lore again

[timber pond]

Mang blocked me😭

[random harbor]

Lore Tablet: Greenpath - Near Queen's Gardens

Though once our lands, a pale being lays claim to the caverns ahead.
It may appear benevolent but it does not share our dream.
Be wary to wander that place.

@glorkishjames used /lore-tablets area: Greenpath name: Near Queen's Gardens

[unique tangle]

ig WL couldve annexed it and then PK came in married her and then built his hallownest greenhouses everywhere

[visual glacier]

Yeah

[unique tangle]

but i think its more plausible for PK to have claimed all the land

would WL really claim all of QG on her own?

[visual glacier]

No

They saw that white lady was being there and just folded

[timber pond]

Likely after the kingdom was established

[unique tangle]

man those moss knights arent shit

[visual glacier]

Fr

“Oh shit she’s pale”

[timber pond]

Well Unn isn't a fighter

Hello?

[unique tangle]

they mustve heard hornet's line

"destruction or devotion"

and just got chills

[visual glacier]

Yeah

Because silksong is a prequel and an in universe game

[stray fog]

Why is Noone responding to you 😭

[copper sable]

gang didnt the knight unite the void under its will? why is it still attacking and stuff in silksong

[visual glacier]

We are NOT doing this again

[unique tangle]

its the neighbouring kingdoms void ig

it didnt get the memo

[timber pond]

Its like aquaman controlling all oceanlife

[copper sable]

please point me to the prior discussion of this so my curiosity may be satiated

[timber pond]

He cant do it everywhere all the time

[copper sable]

yea but why did this fraud attack the void tendrils instead of just tell them to chill

[visual glacier]

Momentum

Or something

[unique tangle]

to show dominance

[timber pond]

Mabye that's just how void interacts with eachother lol

[copper sable]

i have concluded team cherry is an unreliable source for hollow knight lore

[foggy fractal]

to aura farm

[timber pond]

Idk no one likes my discussion

[stray fog]

They're the lord of shades
That doesn't necessarily include void tendrils

[unique tangle]

it did back in hallownest...

[copper sable]

"Unites the void under the bearer's will"

[stray fog]

When did they control void tendrils?

[copper sable]

The void

[copper sable]

Radiance fight lol

[unique tangle]

once you got void heart

the tendrils stop attacking

[timber pond]

Also mabye because Shades aren't 100% from the void in a sense

[copper sable]

^

[stray fog]

True

Ig its just aura farming

[wintry compass]

couldn't the knight die to void tendrils even after?

or am I wrong

[visual glacier]

Nah I don’t think so

[copper sable]

Conclusion

• Team cherry is an unreliable source for HK lore
• The Knight is a fraud

[unique tangle]

no all of them disappear

[visual glacier]

Oh yeah did we every figure out what shade gates are

[wintry compass]

oh

[unique tangle]

and you can swim in the void

[timber pond]

Or mabye he had to destroy them because he couldnt calm them in time

[wintry compass]

I mean maybe it's just a limited unity

it is ultimately maybe a force that can't completely be united

[copper sable]

OR he got the voidheart off temu

[unique tangle]

just pin it on the AC

[timber pond]

Like how aquaman might have to kill the shark if its already biting a human

[visual glacier]

How markoth get past

3d?

[stray fog]

My headcanon is that the ancient civilization wanted to become shades

So maybe they made those gates so that only the pure ones or something could enter

[unique tangle]

3d probably

or he just hit the off switch

[unique tangle]

welcome the the world of Ari "retcon" Gibson

[timber pond]

Well if they did that and succeeded,then they might regret it.

(Mabye what the masters are lol)

[unique tangle]

and William "aura and hype moments" Pellen

[visual glacier]

True

[copper sable]

On God

[visual glacier]

Actually swap the roles

[copper sable]

The Void ending was only there for hype moments

[visual glacier]

Ari was the one doing all this

[stray fog]

Nothing wrong with that imo

[copper sable]

Yea it just feels like act 1 & 2 are phenomenally written and have great gameplay while act 3 is more aura and hype moments centric

[timber pond]

Nah they said it was intetional for most of development.

The idea of silk being pulled into the abyss was always there

Read the interview they did like a few days ago

And that everything was developed in game order

[foggy fractal]

I mean, many still believe that act 3 feels out of place anyway so

[visual glacier]

They can plan aura and hype moments can’t they?

[foggy fractal]

tc's just bad at writing ?

idk

[timber pond]

No they said act 3 was for hollow knight fans

[copper sable]

No their writing was really good for most of the time

[copper sable]

Whilst the gameplay in act 3 doesn't change, the main quest becomes way too strange and more "asspull" in a sense. Eiichiro Oda type of writing. If Hollow Knight didn't exist with previously existing elements, such as the void and everbloom, the Act 3 would feel ridiculously bad. To me it already is, but imagine if you didn't play these games how fast the succession of events, questline and whatnot feels

[unique tangle]

its what happens when you spend 6 years on acts 1 and 2, and then turnaround and spend 3 years on act 3

[foggy fractal]

I'm a hollow knight fan and I felt it was out of place
doesn't matter what they said

[copper sable]

It was a really bad fumble I'm very sad about it

[visual glacier]

I loved act 3 but the pacing was off

[copper sable]

Thank you this is what I meant

[timber pond]

Well that's the point of act 3. Is for pepole who already are invested to get more invested anyway

[copper sable]

It just put me off tbh and the ending doesnt even really mean much

[timber pond]

Hollow knight as a connective tissue will always be about the void. Idk, I thought that was pretty obvious with the first.

[copper sable]

The void is not the bad element here

[visual glacier]

I don’t think anything in silksong felt like my first time getting the “the hollow knight” ending

[timber pond]

Well yeah, because this game is a parallel of it. So you are experiencing something similar for the second time

[copper sable]

It's more that act 3 is just "Things are happening and you must go do them and this happens afterwards" - which does sound ridiculous when you point it out, but the act 1 & 2 had a lot of fleshing out between each event.

[visual glacier]

I feel like weaver queen wouldn’t pack the same punch if it was my first time

Tbh

[unique tangle]

act 3 pacing:
1 hour on Seth
10 minutes on joke bosses
2 hours on karmelita
1 hour for backtracking around the map
3 hours on lost lace
6 hours on flea games

[visual glacier]

Thk is a way better final boss than gms

[copper sable]

Which is obviously going to happen because act 3 has a lot more restrictive map but a lot could've been done to be honest

[timber pond]

Hard to say in retrospect because thats not how you experinced it

[foggy fractal]

waiter waiter more flea games please

awoooooooo

[timber pond]

Look fleas are better than grubs guys comon

You get closure on fleas

Grubs are just "lol fuck you mabye its good????"

[unique tangle]

hornet is not great at time management

[copper sable]

Go to the abyss and go back to shamans then do it again and ummm yea explore these hidden areas of the map cuz you didnt have the ability before

And again I dont want to hate on TC because its a phenomenal game for 20$ and act 1,2 had me thinking this would be my favorite game ever but act 3 made me cry

The destruction of the map and an abyss expansion couldve 100000% been used to make areas more interesting and force a re-exploration of the map instead of whatever happened

[unique tangle]

yes i hear GMS shrieking as earthquakes ravage through the land but hang on i need to get 69 on flea dodge to beat seth's score

[visual glacier]

Grubs are cuter

[timber pond]

Sure but you can at least admit they each have thier pros. Flea Arc is better than Grub Arc

[unique tangle]

you dont understand, that seth memento is vital to me saving pharloom

[copper sable]

what is the closure can sm1 tell me pls i dont wanna do allat

[visual glacier]

I love Vog but the collector is way better

[visual glacier]

You get a pale oil for doing the flea games

[timber pond]

Each talking flea actually has a chracter tho

[unique tangle]

it is tragic that all of act 3's "exploration" is just find a hole in the ceiling simulator

[timber pond]

Collector is just paranoid scitzo

[copper sable]

imagine if they had smt similar to first shrine after act 3 with many of the the characters, and actually made smth out of ruined pharloom instead of just void 😢

i guess i cant be satisfied because of how good act 1 and 2 were

[blazing sundial]

I spent act three getting slapped by fleas in dodge

[timber pond]

You make every flea happy for participating and give the troup master hope

[unique tangle]

collector is memorable on first glance

[foggy fractal]

well yeah they expanded on the system a lot, an example being fleas sometimes get stuck dependent on the enviroment, remember that one who's frozen in mt fay ? what a silly little fella

[unique tangle]

while it took me a bit to remember varga from vog from vrishka

[lethal burrow]

when does the nyleth memory take place in relation to other things?

[blazing sundial]

and the big one

in memorium

[foggy fractal]

true

[copper sable]

wtf did the big flea even do bruh

😭

[foggy fractal]

be too big

[visual glacier]

Don’t forget vrishkin

[timber pond]

Yeah fleas have more Chracter. Grubs just had mimics. And the Flea NPCs each have a neat gimick

[unique tangle]

oh wait their name was grishkin

i think?

[timber pond]

Be a menace in minigames and is also cool

[unique tangle]

even now i dont remember lol

[visual glacier]

Grishkin, varga, Kratt, mooshka, Vog

[foggy fractal]

we never get an official name for though

[unique tangle]

why is kratt the most memorable

[visual glacier]

He’s a criminal

[timber pond]

Because he had a neat gimmick

You probably won't disagree with me on that one

[blazing sundial]

i rmbr u cud hit him into the lake by greymoor

[visual glacier]

Actually Grishkin is a criminal too, public intoxication

[unique tangle]

wym he was just doing carriage repairs

[edgy nebula]

varga is a racist

[unique tangle]

poor kratt

[timber pond]

Yep @unique tangle blocked me lol

[visual glacier]

And giving child fleas alchohol

[unique tangle]

you could also hit him into the maggots in pale lake

where he belongs

[visual glacier]

You’re thinking of Vog

[unique tangle]

i wish they ate him alive

[edgy nebula]

no, im not

[blazing sundial]

hed prob like that 😭

[edgy nebula]

one of his dialogues essentially boils down to "youre not one of us, better not stay around too long"

[foggy fractal]

do we think this guy is racist too or is he chillin

[unique tangle]

i have a theory they kill him for the pale oil

he disappears once the festival starts

[foggy fractal]

does he ?

[visual glacier]

Notice how he never talks to or about Seth? It’s because he’s racist and doesn’t accept him as a flea

[unique tangle]

and just coincidentally mooshka finds a pale oil

[edgy nebula]

unbelievable

[unique tangle]

if im not misremembering

[foggy fractal]

well let me go check brb

[visual glacier]

You think that’s a sylphean slug?

[foggy fractal]

thank god for debug mods

don't have to spend like 1 minute going through like 2 rooms

[edgy nebula]

pale oil is from sylphean slugs yeah, he doesnt look like a sylphean slug to me

[silk dirge]

we are cooking

[unique tangle]

it looks....

oddly similar

[visual glacier]

Is that not cut content?

[timber pond]

The idea was they wanted to make infected crossroads but for the whole map. That was the plan they made Like 5 years ago or something and stuck to it.

[visual glacier]

Or is it from the chambers room

[unique tangle]

no thats the vaults pale oil

[visual glacier]

Actually is choral chambers

[unique tangle]

you get the vaults pale oil from it

[timber pond]

There is also a similar sprite near mask shards

[unique tangle]

oh fine the map says the oil is in choral chambers

but you get it from vaults

[copper sable]

Yes that is pretty damn cool, I just mean that the potential that it had was not maximized

[foggy fractal]

yeah I think you're right

[unique tangle]

WAIT THEY KILLED HIM FOR OIL

NOOOO

[silk dirge]

are fleas actually using sylphean slugs

thats crazy

💀

fucking insane lore discovery

[visual glacier]

Or they let him free cause they were done traveling

[timber pond]

Its just a case of diffrent new ideas all the time. You can tell because they said they developed the game in a linear fashion. The hearts were things they wanted to do but couldnt fit anywhere else because game already big. So they fit them into act 3 changing the landscape

[visual glacier]

But it’s more likely they killed him and took his bilegland

[edgy nebula]

what if theyre cooking him for the 2nd meal

[unique tangle]

letting him free into the putrified ducts isnt a great fate either

[visual glacier]

True

[timber pond]

And that's just how they are so idk mabye a smaller game would be the solution next time? But like that's gonna stop them.

[unique tangle]

this is so fucked up

and i thought TC would give us a happy ending for once

[visual glacier]

Vog is racist, varga is racist, Grishkin is an alocholic, mooshka is a monster

Only poor Kratt is innocent

[silk dirge]

vog is also guilty of child abandonment

she knew all the flea locations and didnt do shit

[silk dirge]

bro became a ductsucker

[unique tangle]

"pay me, so i can give you the opportunity, so you can save my lost children"

its kinda messed up thinking about it

[foggy fractal]

damn it did they really kill Henrick

[silk dirge]

anyways the fact fleas are just casually using a sylphean slug is crazy

[timber pond]

No not really. She was probably making a plan to rescue them if you don't come along.

[silk dirge]

no she wasnt

her ass was not moving from there lol

[timber pond]

Well we can never know because we came along and solved that issue for her

She might have had a plan.

Why did you have to respond to me for something a responded to river with anyway lol

[visual glacier]

Is Poggy thorax a higher being?

[unique tangle]

not the poggy thorax higher being discussion again

why does this always happen

[silk dirge]

fleas killing a sylphean slug was not on my bingo card for silksong lore discussion

this is actually wild

[unique tangle]

i was not ready to be right either

[timber pond]

I don't think they killed it tho

[unique tangle]

i thought it would be be a joke

[timber pond]

Isn't it still there

[unique tangle]

and henrick would be alive and well

[foggy fractal]

I refuse to believe Henrick is dead

[unique tangle]

and we'd all laugh it off

[timber pond]

Do you actually need to kill the slugs to get the oil tgo

[visual glacier]

You’re removing their bile gland

[timber pond]

I thoguht mabye it was a separate container but I guess a gland would make sense

[visual glacier]

It won’t kill them if you do careful surgery

[timber pond]

Is the guy in fleatopia at all

[visual glacier]

I don’t think any of the fleas are surgeons

[foggy fractal]

in fleatopia, not in flea festival

[unique tangle]

they didnt let him free when they were done travelling

[visual glacier]

Are they? Yes no or ambiguous?

[unique tangle]

they kept him even after arriving at ducts

[visual glacier]

Oh my god

[unique tangle]

and then after the festival starts

hes suspiciously gone

[visual glacier]

I can’t believe this

[unique tangle]

and now mooshka somehow has a pale oil

[cedar skiff]

the fleamother is a higher being theory though

[visual glacier]

I’m going to cry

[unique tangle]

leaning to yes but it depends on your politics

[visual glacier]

I see

[stray fog]

I am a higher being theory

[timber pond]

True

[cedar skiff]

“Icon of the mythical mother flea” why would team apples mention this if it wasn’t relevant?

[visual glacier]

Ngl I never once read that description

[timber pond]

The mother flea is a higher being that helps us in DLC

Or something

[cedar skiff]

team cherry who had thought of all that

[cedar skiff]

it stood out to me because its one of the million trivial references to some sort of mother of something

[foggy fractal]

team banana also mentioned battle of the blackwyrm 🧌

[silk dirge]

jack vine

[timber pond]

They don't think they discover

We know this

They add tiny thing and go "Hmm what it does though"

Ita like math

[stray fog]

Yeah

They confirmed that

[visual glacier]

William Pellen spends all day watching silksong theory videos to see what too add to the dlc

[timber pond]

Like the parasite was probably like that

And then it turned into baby god ect

[timber pond]

Well we knew this from how they described the void coming about

The knights Shade itself was the starting point for the void

Greyroot parasite probably shares that commonality

[timber pond]

He dosent though

[visual glacier]

He does tho

[timber pond]

They said they like it when pepole are disagreeing in comments sections

[craggy smelt]

I hope he saw my wishlist I posted here, because they definiltey lurk here

[timber pond]

Instead of actually watching videos

[visual glacier]

Literally the biggest lie ever told

[timber pond]

No he litteraly said that in the interview.

[visual glacier]

I’m saying he’s a liar

[timber pond]

Yeah he probably saw like OG lore videos or something

[stray fog]

I will die happy when they explain those weird lore tidbits that are mentioned one time in hk and then never acknowledged again

[visual glacier]

Or never mentioned

[craggy smelt]

I've got bad news

[visual glacier]

Like the beasts den thing

[craggy smelt]

you're going to die unhappy

[timber pond]

Focus more on big ones

Because things like "what this trilobite horseshoe crab thing do" probably won't get answers lol

[silk dirge]

"no comment"

literally what they would say

[stray fog]

They won't say anything at all 🔥

[timber pond]

But like ,everbloom origins ,void interactivity and steel masters? Lifeblood? These are things they actively take interest in in the math equation of new lands.

[foggy fractal]

this pontiff mf so big his corpse consists of like 9 seperate sprites 😭

[unique tangle]

cant believe TC cheaped out and killed the pontiff

wouldve loved to talk the him alive

animation budget ran out 😔

[silk dirge]

bro would not let you take his cylinder

[timber pond]

The needolin dilouge hits harder if he's dead though

[unique tangle]

Pontiff boss fight even better

[stray fog]

It is imperative that the cylinder remains unharmed

[unique tangle]

Hornet kills a pope

[foggy fractal]

gasp

Hornet is EVIL ?!!?

[unique tangle]

Only towards certain species

[timber pond]

Andddd back around to reducing hornet to "bad"

[stray fog]

"guys we should lowkey genocide these flies, am I right?"

[unique tangle]

They stink

And I dislike them

That’s enough reason to end their species

[foggy fractal]

we should cancel TC !

[timber pond]

They wouldn't care lol

[foggy fractal]

we raid their headquaters

[timber pond]

Thats just illegal

[silk dirge]

this is a warning

shower

or lose your rights

[timber pond]

Now that's something I can get behind

Killing pepole who dont shower is a funny idea for a society

[unique tangle]

No I don’t care that you’re already slaves and have no rights

You’ll lose more rights

I’ll make up rights for you to lose

[foggy fractal]

we should cancel you

banban

[unique tangle]

Sorry i forgot rping wasn’t allowed in the lore channel

[visual glacier]

Ok guys silksong trivia quiz time

What relation does the crystallized mound shaman have with the ancestral mound shaman

[twin dragon]

Hornet is bad and evil and malicious and

[unique tangle]

Fourth aunt

[stray fog]

Uncle

[twin dragon]

ahh aunt

[timber pond]

That is not a silksong question

[foggy fractal]

evil

[craggy smelt]

it was a trick!

[foggy fractal]

aw man

[visual glacier]

Ok now gender and relation for the overgrown mound one

[unique tangle]

Large cousin

[twin dragon]

??? shaman

[unique tangle]

Female

[twin dragon]

but he scream

or she

or them

or it

or tank/helicopter

[stray fog]

Why does bro know this

[twin dragon]

or 6/7

[visual glacier]

Read the dialogue unc

[unique tangle]

You don’t understand how invested I am in snail shaman lore

[random harbor]

Snail Shaman - Reacting to spells - Reacting to Howling Wraiths

Pried a spell out've my larger cousin did you? Aren't you the charming one.
She's not usually the generous sort, certainly not as giving as myself, but she does have that wonderful voice! It's no surprise her spells take on such aural force.

@glorkishjames used /npcs misc name: Snail Shaman category: Reacting to spells dialogue: Reacting to Howling Wraiths

[stray fog]

No but how does one remember allat

[timber pond]

Even silksong shamans?

Not gonna respond to my question huh