sk-lore

[twin dragon]

wakes up to get her ass whooped and dragged into the abyss

dies

[distant vessel]

Its just how could she haunt the bugs in her sleep

[twin dragon]

Citadel fails its goal

and she starts to wake up

enough to project her will through strings

[frosty gate]

The Conductors did probably live Lavishly despite it all, but there were probably no bugs like the ones in High Halls, unless they deemed it a necessity of the Choir, which we don't know.
Even then, Citadel bugs lived lavishly compared to Underworkers, that has never been different

[twin dragon]

I dont think the underworks existed in the weaver rule

[twin dragon]

Nothing indicating that they did live lavishly, a lil bit better maybe, but not "lavishly"

[unique canopy]

The clawline shrine looks like it existed before the Underworks and had it built around it, with part of the shrine collapsing.

[twin dragon]

Some weavers chose to stay to grant power if one would ever try to kill gms

[frigid belfry]

wanders into pharloom, smothers a bunch of kingdoms due to her instinct, wants children -> evolves pharlids into weavers, is content, weavers betray her either due to knowing the truth about their creation or not wanting to be in servitude to gms, weavers lull her to sleep using song, develop the citadel and lure pilgrims into it promising "holy" stuff, research ways to kill/seal gms in weavenest atla, some flee pharloom after leaving everything to the conductors in the citadel, conductors make everything worse (creation of gold citadel and underworks), gms still asleep -> slows starts to wake because song cant keep her in stasis forever, starts to take over the minds of regular ass bugs in her sleep (shes sleeping but still awake at the same time, kind of hard to explain, but she knows shes been put to sleep and is actively trying to wake up), somewhere inbetween all of this gms orders the capture of weavers so she can bind their essence to make herself stronger -> orders hornets capture, hornet arrives -> lace frees hornet using a silkfly, hornet eventually traps gms in the snare setter and sends gms to the void -> lace hitches along -> instead of dying like she would, gms flails around to try and protect lace (its useless and all shes doing is prolonging her and lace's death), hornet comes along and frees lace, gms dies after giving hornet her essence to propel herself, gms dead

summarized version

[twin dragon]

so i doubt theyd leave their mummiffied corpse in fucking

hell

[frigid belfry]

i left some stuff out because it would take too long

[twin dragon]

enters the story

[unique canopy]

One of them was in the Abyss lol

[twin dragon]

gets sealed off

functions as a plot point for the story

wakes up

dies

[frigid belfry]

bum hb gms

[twin dragon]

unlucky ahh

didnt have intel boost like pk did

[twin dragon]

True

Tbf that's prob made for gameplay purposes

and while it was in the abyss, it was in one of their weavenests still

[unique canopy]

Another Weavenest is in Bilewater, infected with maggot water, so
I think Weavers just didn't care that much. Pharlids seem like they can exist in more desolate places than most other bugs.

[twin dragon]

Bilewater was polluted by the lavish citadel presumably sooo

it was cleanwater before

[frosty gate]

I mean, it's the base of the City, its likely it did

[twin dragon]

It'd have no reason to exist

[midnight zinc]

Do we have any cause to believe GMS is from outside of Pharloom?

[twin dragon]

the weavers only wanted pilgrims for their song

[twin dragon]

snail shamans mention how there were kingdoms before gms was around

in pharloom

[midnight zinc]

That doesn’t mean she came from outside the area

[twin dragon]

It would be wasteful sending people down there to work

and yeah they could've sinned

[midnight zinc]

We have no idea how higher beings are made, the radiance for example exists in the dream world yet is somehow regional to Hallownest

[twin dragon]

but it's aesthetically similar to everything else post weaver

[frosty gate]

No, because they're keeping the mechanisms in the Citadel working and that's what the Weavers wanted anyway

[twin dragon]

esp since everything costs rosaries

[frigid belfry]

snail shamans and some other source say there were kingdoms in pharloom before gms, so gms arrived in pharloom at some time

[twin dragon]

The citadel used to be barebones

i doubt they'd have much machination

[unique canopy]

The mechanisms wouldn't have existed in the days of the stone Citadel, only after when the Citadel became more mechanized and gilded.

[midnight zinc]

#sk-lore message

[twin dragon]

Plus, i would like to assume although without much backing that rosaries also didn't exist

[frosty gate]

That doesn't mean that the Weavers weren't there

[frigid belfry]

"She appeared in the lands of Pharloom sometime in the past and displaced most of the existing kingdoms and tribe" -wiki

theres a source for this exactly i forgot

but its true

[midnight zinc]

Uh huh

[frigid belfry]

!wiki grand mother silk

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Grand_Mother_Silk

Hollow Knight Wiki

Grand Mother Silk

Grand Mother Silk is the final boss of Act 2 in Hollow Knight: Silksong. She is central to Hornet's journey and the story of Pharloom.

Location

The Cradle

​

Combat Values

Health

Phases 1/2/3/4/5/6 respectively: 100/192/240/110/242/340
Total: 1224

Damage Modifiers

1.1    1    1    0.88    0.88

Reward

Weaver Queen ending
Snared Silk ending
Twisted Child ending

Journal Kills

1

​

Miscellaneous

Gender

Female

Theme

Awakening A (Phase 1-3)
Awakening B (Phase 4-6)

[frosty gate]

Caretaker

[frigid belfry]

check yourself

[frosty gate]

Or one of the Snails

[twin dragon]

why the fuck is it strung to serve icon

[frigid belfry]

wiki images are weird sometimes

[midnight zinc]

The wiki is nothing but a fandom interpretation of dialogue, if all it’s going off of is that one snail shaman dialogue then that’s not really enough she comes from a region outside of Pharloom

[twin dragon]

That only happened after the conductors took the rule

[midnight zinc]

The only gods we know that travel are wyrms and the Nightmare Heart, the rest of them seem regional and largely incapable or uninterested in travel

[frosty gate]

Which is proven by?

[twin dragon]

isamor

again

[frigid belfry]

we outright have dialogue saying she came from outside of pharloom, this isnt an interpretation

[frosty gate]

Omfg the fucking propaganda machine again

[unique canopy]

None of the wiki's "sources" say that she came from outside Pharloom, just that she eventually overtook the other major powers of the land.

[frigid belfry]

lemme get receipts rn

[midnight zinc]

The citadel wasn’t gilded during the time of weavers but we don’t necessarily have reason to believe there were no Underworks.

[twin dragon]

They also literally pushed the "excess is sin" narrative

[twin dragon]

no reason for it to exist

[midnight zinc]

It says she appeared, not that she traveled

[twin dragon]

barely any machinery to maintain

[frigid belfry]

where would gms exist in pharloom before she appeared then

[midnight zinc]

My point is that she wouldn’t exist

[unique canopy]

"Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her. Seek the old hearts of our kingdom and the last successors to bear their strength. They're still out there, hidden away, much faded by the pale one's long dominion."
Does not say GMS is foreign to Pharloom, just that she conquered and bound the other powers of hte land.
"Up top of those caves lost to wind and sand rests a crusted old ruler, a once great warrior king. In their prime, they and their order held half of Pharloom under hardened claw. Some bugs relished that strength. Most lived in fear of it."
"Through their march, at the far border of these lowlands, seek the last queen of the ant hunters. We can sense her still... just. In youth, her voice united the wild tribes. Gave them the strength to resist the pale monarch's will... longer than most at least."
"All to bow... All lost to fear... Now none to resist... But us... Alone... against the pale light..."
Same thing, the other monarchs resisted her but that doesn't say she came from outside Pharloom.

Those are the four sources the wiki uses to make that claim, none of them support the wiki's claim.

[frosty gate]

Isamor itself is a machine that was Gilded, I don't see how that proves Underworks didn't exists while Weavers ruled, but I'm absolutely exhausted of this conversation and if I see Isamor being pulled as a source again for something vaguely related I'm going to blow up

Think as you will

[midnight zinc]

To my knowledge we have no stories for the origins of any higher beings, except the origin of the vessels counting as the origin of the Shade Lord. Outside of that we have no idea how higher beings come into existence.

[frosty gate]

(And Weaver Queen)

And techincally PK, not the Wyrm, but the Bug

[midnight zinc]

So basically the only gods we see or hear about being created are the protagonists of each game lol

[midnight zinc]

That doesn’t count because we don’t know where Wyrms come from

[twin dragon]

Isamor rlly tells us basically everything bout the old citadel

and the mf was of slightly copper color god forbid

😭

[frosty gate]

🚪 🚶‍♂️

[unique canopy]

Up top where the Citadel started and the Cradle is? The other four hearts are scattered elsewhere, and in Nyleth's case specifically the Citadel expanded until it encroached on her lands, which is why they needed to make a truce with her. If she was completely foreign to the land, then logically there would've been at least one kingdom that was conquered first where the Citadel is now.

[midnight zinc]

In fact wyrms specifically are confusing in their origin because they’re the only gods that are an actual species, every other higher being is a unique being, or at most a part of a more specific category (pale beings)

[twin dragon]

Even if its propaganda, doesn't mean it would be telling straight up lies that contrast with everything the pilgrims see

If the citadel was gilded and the mf was telling them it wasn't straight up in their faces i doubt there'd be any pilgrims in the first place

[lethal burrow]

maybe the pale king was only a god because he was a pale wyrm as opposed to a regular one?

[dusky bay]

I wonder if this hints for a coral dlc

[spark valve]

not... really?

[lean temple]

They're completely brainwashed with their propaganda either way. It makes more sense if the gilding was later but also don't estimate the power of religious propaganda

[twin dragon]

cut content

[dusky bay]

Land before the monarch

[twin dragon]

Propaganda has to be convincing to work

most of the times

[dusky bay]

It is cut but

I don't think it would fit the arena

[spark valve]

that is what the old hearts' whole deal is

[dusky bay]

Like a wondering enemy

Not a hostile one just swimming around

[twin dragon]

And who says we can't learn from how the past used to look like from propaganda

[dusky bay]

Or a guard

[lean temple]

Even with the insane cruelty and damage of the Citadel Sherma still believes in its holiness, even though the Judge's are literally bludgeoning people to death he calls them nice

[twin dragon]

I mean everyone is dead

already

so there's that

[spark valve]

the coral tower has a bunch of shit that isn't soldiers

[dusky bay]

Plus it has a full ass enemy journal

Feels scrapped very late in development

[twin dragon]

and sherma's perception seems to wail very quickly

once he actually enters the citadel

[dusky bay]

Only 3 enemies don't target on you

Jellyfish and the 2 coral things on the ground

Which are the same enemy

[spark valve]

idk why you'd assume the thing with a blade head wouldn't be aggressive

[dusky bay]

I am guessing the first dlc in the game will be more memories

Since act 3 is very empty and small

[twin dragon]

its act 1 ish length id say

if youre speedrunning

that is

[dusky bay]

In act1 you see many new stuff

Act3 you go to shamens

[dusky bay]

Then abyss

Then shamens again

[twin dragon]

I mean the questline

its

literally

climb

[dusky bay]

Then abit more Far fields stuff

[twin dragon]

and act 3 has a bunch of optional bosses and world changes

that some would care to explore

but it should've had more

that i agree on

[dusky bay]

Since act 2 is very large act 3 seems so small for something secret

Its made to have room for dlcs

[twin dragon]

there are quite a bunch of things

that got cut seemingly for no reason

[dusky bay]

They are all working too

Like the aspid hopper

[twin dragon]

Like the memory areas

[dusky bay]

I think also the reason why is everything on act3 so you can't just 100% the game in act2 and call it a day

[dusky bay]

I like the memories than dreams

Dream nail was abit of

Not the best tbh

[twin dragon]

because there's like

actual correlation

between silk and memories

[spark valve]

memories are dreams

[twin dragon]

yes but also not really

we see them be sort of a replica

made with silk

[dusky bay]

Decent bosses
And also new areas

[twin dragon]

not necessarily the dream realm

[twin dragon]

could've been more tbf

since hk had dream zones

[dusky bay]

Like you cant tell you look at elder hu and call this a darn boss

[twin dragon]

but dream bosses felt unfleshed

[spark valve]

hornet is probably accessing the dream realm doesn't she even wake up the same way after you die in one

[twin dragon]

like its the boss

but fast

or 2 mask damage

[dusky bay]

All dream zones look the same except soul tyrant
He is porpol

[prime scaffold]

If I left bro in the cage, wuold he have died and when would be soonest to see

[twin dragon]

and white palace ofc

[dusky bay]

Nope you can free him at any time

[prime scaffold]

gey

[dusky bay]

White palace is a celest player area

[twin dragon]

We dont see the particles nor it is similar

[dusky bay]

There is no bosses

The boss

IS the platform

[twin dragon]

its a good lore area

[spark valve]

it behaves the exact same way

[twin dragon]

with ambience

[twin dragon]

gameplay wise it does

lore wise idk

[spark valve]

and not all dreams in hk have visible particles e.g. the abyss memory

[twin dragon]

That's a crackpot

i dont rlly know

how to explain the abyss memory

it differs so much from any other memory

[spark valve]

the crackpot is that it's not essence, it is essence you just don't visibly see it aside from the speech bubbles

[twin dragon]

Its not about the essence

[lean temple]

The dream realm felt like it went super untouched in silksong. Imagine if the Shamans set up a dreamgate for Hornet to go fetch some Everblooms from queen's gardens

[twin dragon]

its about how the thing looks in general

[dusky bay]

One thing I like more in ss than hk is the bosses

[twin dragon]

its lowkey the same place

[spark valve]

because it's a more literal memory

[dusky bay]

Hk bosses are

...something

[twin dragon]

i dont think they grew there

[dusky bay]

Not all bad but

Some are there for a filler

[frosty gate]

By the time Hornet comes back Pharloom would fall 3 times

[dusky bay]

Talking about dream bosses

[twin dragon]

idfk how that would work

[lean temple]

After TK delivers the one to Traitorchild

[twin dragon]

oh yeah

maybe that could be it but like

hornet wasn't there

she doesn't know

[spark valve]

essence is the substance thoughts are made of, memories are thoughts, in a vivid memory it's going to be configured like the real place

[frosty gate]

After Grey Mourner's quest they did

[lean temple]

We know travel through dream is possible and seemingly instantaneous (Grimm Troupe for example)

[twin dragon]

Its a vivid memory of an egg

seemingly

[spark valve]

the knight dream nails itself

[twin dragon]

though it might be YOUR memory

[dusky bay]

Memories have room for dlcs i a would say
But other than that it's better than you running around in hk and fighting stuff like elder hu and grob
I love grob but you can't say a "boss" that one spawns swords as his only attack an actual boss

[twin dragon]

that makes more sense

[dusky bay]

We need more verdania areas

[frosty gate]

Yes but the troupe is well versed in Dream Magic

[twin dragon]

And yet it still doesn't have much to do with the dream realm as a whole

[lean temple]

I meant the dream realm itself. We have no clue what the aftermath of Radiance dying was

[spark valve]

it's a memory it's entering its own mind

[dusky bay]

Also I seen someone talk about the random edge outside of coral tower (not memory one) at the very top

[twin dragon]

if you enter soul master you don't get prime soul sanctum

[twin dragon]

im sure he remembers that pretty well

[marble roost]

Hablan español

[twin dragon]

as it's his like

only goal

[spark valve]

but you're not specifically entering a memory there you're just entering his dream in general

[frosty gate]

I like the interpretation that the reason why we see Essence in HK is because of the Dream Nail, but I'm not so sure about it

[marble roost]

HABLAN ESPAÑOL

[dusky bay]

You telling me soul sactrum porpol was on its prime-

[twin dragon]

memories = dreams as you said

[frosty gate]

And since Hornet doesn't have it, she can't use it

[spark valve]

memories are a subset of dreams

[frank dove]

Or are dreams a subset of memories 🤔

[dusky bay]

But tbh this and the aspid enemies are working enemies and this one has a journal
I don't think they would throw something that late in development in the dump

[twin dragon]

Seems kinda arbitrary that the dream nail can access the dream realm or the memories

[dusky bay]

Especially the steel boss like it attacks and was in the trailer so like

Hello?

[twin dragon]

Why doesn't it happen with soul master

[spark valve]

it only accesses the dream realm
some things in the dream realm are memories

[twin dragon]

the abyss dream doesn't seem like it

maybe it's so vivid that it covers the entire thing

[spark valve]

Allows the wielder to cut through the veil between dreams and waking.

if it wasn't in the dream realm dream nail wouldn't take you there

[frosty gate]

We don't really know if Memories count towards the Dream Realm

[spark valve]

yes we do

[frosty gate]

How so

[twin dragon]

In the dream realm you relive their memories

[dusky bay]

Doesn't the dream nail say Enter the dreams and shamen's elegy entering pharlooms forgotten past?

[spark valve]

because you use the dream nail to access memories

[frosty gate]

Which are very different thing

[frosty gate]

Which ones

[spark valve]

abyss

[twin dragon]

First sinner also seems to be a memory

of some sorts

[twin dragon]

dream bosses, white palace

[dusky bay]

It is she is dead and doesn't kill you
She is just stopping you from seeing her memories

[spark valve]

wp isn't a memory

[twin dragon]

Ik

[prime scaffold]

Wait would the story have changed any way?

[twin dragon]

It's in the dream realm but for a different reason

[frosty gate]

We are kinda hitting ourselves with the Nail there, and honestly its the only exception
White Palace and the Dream bosses aren't memories

[twin dragon]

which is also

confusing

[foggy fractal]

what does this mean for the silksong lore

[twin dragon]

and seemingly arbitrary

[dusky bay]

Nope
Did you enter his mind?

[prime scaffold]

no

[twin dragon]

Though PK might've inserted WP the same way the knight inserts himself into and modifies dreams

[prime scaffold]

like then?

or now?

[spark valve]

seer also constantly talks about memories because they're dreams, that's what's important to the moths

[dusky bay]

Everyone was praying with song
The end

[twin dragon]

WP isnt a memory

[spark valve]

This kingdom is full of old memories, both beautiful and grotesque. Seek them out, reveal them, and gather Essence.

[twin dragon]

though

[dusky bay]

Have you talked to the shamens?

And got the ability?

[twin dragon]

I know that no shit

[spark valve]

Ahhhhh. 500 Essence. You're a master in the making. Well done! Well done! I've a small reward for you.

Plucked from one of my most precious memories, this Charm will bring you and the Dream Nail closer together still. The secrets of this kingdom won't be able to hide from you any longer!

[twin dragon]

so essence are like

a thing you can count

[foggy fractal]

five hundered essences

[spark valve]

memories are dreams that doesn't mean every dream is a memory

[twin dragon]

huh

[twin dragon]

so the dream realm is not necessarily tied to them

i mean it is tied to them

[spark valve]

it is

memories are dreams not all dreams are memories

squares and rectangles

[frosty gate]

Wait, I've never thought about this, do we even know if the Birthplace cutscene is actually a memory?

[spark valve]

The Dream Nail glows bright... It holds over 1200 Essence. Looking into it I can see so many memories peering back at me. So many asking to be remembered.

[twin dragon]

TK dream nails himself

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[spark valve]

No dream can hide itself from you now. You can peer into the darkest places... You just need to find the right crack.
What will you do with such a power, Wielder? Whose memories will you hunt down?

[frosty gate]

Not what I asked

[twin dragon]

you know this

because tk dream nails himself

his memory

[frosty gate]

Still, not what I asked

[twin dragon]

cause and effect

[spark valve]

remember the past and unite the abyss

[frosty gate]

This is the answer, thank you

[twin dragon]

Memories are in the dream realm but its not the only thing that can be in the dream realm

As for how did pk transport the WP into the kingsmould head

we dont know

[lavish tangle]

Memories and dreams are different, but I think the egg specifically was a memeory

[spark valve]

memories are a subset of dream

[prime scaffold]

the crest?

[twin dragon]

While dreams are not always memories

[frosty gate]

I actually side with Tammo here, Dreams seem to also include Memories

[twin dragon]

Yeah no shit

that's stated

quite a lot

[frosty gate]

Then what is even being discussed?

[twin dragon]

Uh

rlly nothing

it was js a bunch of subjective shit at the start

then some misconceptions about dreams

[dusky bay]

No the ability you get when you play the needolin

[twin dragon]

which are confusing as hell

[silk dirge]

why doesnt hornet go to limbo when she dies in a memory is this game bad or smth /j

[spark valve]

she does limbo is just indistinguishable from the physical world

every time you die in a dream you get a layer deeper

[silk dirge]

REAL

this explains the ambiguous ending

ignore the fact ive used inceptions ending as an example of an ambiguous ending when the top pretty clearly is going to fall right as the screen goes black

[spark valve]

tops will sometimes do that and keep spinning

especially if it's in a dream and will spin forever

[silk dirge]

i think nolan confirmed it at some point idk but its the only pretty ambiguous ending i know other than silksong so ill keep using it

[terse warren]

something something "I can't see my kids' faces in my dreams" something something the guy actually does see the kids' faces so it's not a dream something something

i've neevr seen the movie im just stating something i read somewhere

[foggy fractal]

kids faces ? who's kids ? pale kings ?

[terse warren]

John Inception

[foggy fractal]

😱

[silk dirge]

oh yeah i forgot about this lol

[unique canopy]

Herrah never had a real face lore confirmed

[lean temple]

Does anyone have those cut GMS kids?

[spark valve]

that's actually so lame if true but oh well

[silk dirge]

i mean if so the kids faces confirmed it anyways so

i never actually saw where he did tho so maybe he never did

[silk dirge]

organ sleepers?

[lean temple]

Yes

[lean temple]

Were there 3 or 4?

[foggy fractal]

3

[lean temple]

Alr tysm

[lethal burrow]

pattern screamers?

[foggy fractal]

I have no idea we have so little knowledge on the organ sleepers

[silk dirge]

i wonder when they were cut

they definitely seem like a post great cut change

[foggy fractal]

it may be possible to deduce, wiki lists these ass possible rooms where they could've been at

of course I'm just spitballing here

[silk dirge]

i mean not really bc now we know the map dates are really fucked

unless its just the "2025" one

[foggy fractal]

no idea

we could add an error margin

but it will be completely arbitary

[foggy fractal]

the ever elusive clean sinner's road/dustroach pens

[silk dirge]

that makes me wonder is the 2024 map also not from 2024

bc by that point it would be bilewater

or it would look fine

[foggy fractal]

if tc does an ama ever again this is what we, yes we, are asking

[stray fog]

There's so much lore shit to ask 😭

[edgy nebula]

nah man im asking if karak fell pre-citadel or post-citadel once and for all

[silk dirge]

ama questions to ask
-what happened during the great cut
-why is hornet racist
-where is sharpe

[foggy fractal]

yeah the missing kickstarter stuff is def a priority

[potent patio]

am i the only one that originally thought putrified ducts was called purified ducts?

[foggy fractal]

where are my dungeons

[stray fog]

• what the fuck is up with that map of the nightmare realm
• what's with that weird abyss shreik room

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

ts is not purified 😭

[foggy fractal]

shrue

[potent patio]

tbh that was probably its old name

[silk dirge]

putrified isnt the most common word so i wouldnt blame you for making that mistake

ig it just sounded better than "polluted ducts"

[foggy fractal]

the ever elusive third steel assasin

[edgy nebula]

never realized the big one's arms kinda look like khann's

[stray fog]

Exactly what I was thinking too

[silk dirge]

this is why we need to get silksong to win goty

[foggy fractal]

yeah kinda

[silk dirge]

make tc show up so we can throw questions at them

[stray fog]

I want this to happen but the e33 crowd is just too large

[foggy fractal]

actually not just kinda, they're limbs are shockingly similar

[silk dirge]

imagine if they just sent leth or smth lmao

[foggy fractal]

also

[foggy fractal]

now that we have encounters like gron's

do we think the steel assasin chase in coral would've been similar to that

[edgy nebula]

maybe

[silk dirge]

back to the dev cave

like hey the game is out you can talk now 😭

[foggy fractal]

they're probably focusing on dlcs

same kinda mindset

just get it done

[silk dirge]

locked in

[solar tapir]

drop the game. refuses to elaborate. leave.

Leave to dlc production lol

[stray fog]

They don't talk in order to maximize aura

[stray fog]

When silksong broke every store

[solar tapir]

image gain aura by just being nice and chill guys

this is enough in our times

kinda sad

[cedar skiff]

they enjoy just making the game so much that anything besides that is like a chore to them

sorry we cant type out a tweet addressing the goty nomination because we have to work on this highly important one off encounter npc bug rn

[twin dragon]

Eh

goty awards are kind of worthless

at least to me

[cedar skiff]

i mean i dont really care about them either but as a creator it must be cool to be recognised in that way

[stray fog]

Its fun to look back at the year and see how many good games were released

[cedar skiff]

many other of the nominee studios are geeked

[stray fog]

Especially with how insane 2025 was

[whole marsh]

[prime scaffold]

Damn whats the lore here

[tepid mountain]

Gay.

[trail shoal]

yaoi

[whole marsh]

Brought his robotisized SO back to their dead home.

[trail shoal]

trust

[tepid mountain]

Eh, same general body type, but the outlines are pretty different.

[edgy river]

There is void gas/smoke going up the abyss all the way to the top of the ancient basin, with it reaching close to where the basin connects to city of tears

[dusky bay]

Go to the right there is a secret area with the map
Anyways they are identical and gay
When the citadel needed help his lover gave himself so they can use him
They separated his lover's soul to the two cogwork dancers
Then the kingdom started to fall and rot and the green prince went into a deep depression
Its unknown how he is in sinner's road tho-

And hornet like a bitch followed him
Entered his mind and killed the dude
Took his hard
AND PLACED IT IN HER BELLHOME'S SHELF

WHATS WRONG WITH YOU HORNET

[prime scaffold]

Based af hornet only got me more downbad for toxic women

[whole marsh]

Typical Weaver

[stray fog]

Hornet also wishes the slab mosquitoes died

[whole marsh]

We support woman's rights, and wrongs 💯

[stray fog]

Lowkey agreeable

[dusky bay]

Hornet is homophobic...

[stray fog]

Fuck mosquitoes

[dusky bay]

Those are flies-

[prime scaffold]

I wish those hyena worm dogs in Bilewater died

[dusky bay]

Hornet did alot of shitty stuff in pharloom tbh...

[prime scaffold]

True i support her, wish she and Lace ended together tho

[stray fog]

Sherma is probably the only living person Hornet cares about

[edgy river]

Hornet is def a grey character and she KNOWS it

[dusky bay]

...ahem ahem
Lace is kinda her aunt in some way...

And is a kid

A child

It has been said multiple times

[whole marsh]

Here we go again

[tepid mountain]

Uh oh.

[edgy river]

She specifically says part of her wants to just dethrone GMS bad become queen

[dusky bay]

Sherma is so pure last judge let's them in and somehow she can pass the bone door in the start of the game if you didn't open it

[dusky bay]

Cmon her journal and the dude calls her a child

[stray fog]

The singing worked

[prime scaffold]

Hornet before she massacred pharloom

[dusky bay]

THE GATE IS STILL CLOSED
HE HAS MAGIC POWERS

I keep forgetting sherma is a he

Just sounds like a female name tbh...

[whole marsh]

Oh no, I agree with you. But every time this is brought up, it starts a big debate lmao

[edgy river]

I think she is more of a child to GMS right? I think shes pretty old at this point. But ig it depends on how child-like her mind is as well

[dusky bay]

True
The only reason this still goes on is bec when lace was on the trailer everyone shipped them

[whole marsh]

She's said to have "The mind of a child", so it seems like GMS made her in a way to keep her like that mentally, despite being around for a very long time.

[stray fog]

If she's mentally a child, then her being in a relationship with Hornet is still an objectionable thing

[dusky bay]

I wanna say they are half biological bec the silk was put into the weavers by force
But at the same time there is no proof

Hornet is the only one who uses silk freely btw

The only weaver

Others slowly lose that ability

I think

Or I am stupid

[stray fog]

Pale king genes probably

[sinful nimbus]

Caretaker juxtaposes her actual chronological age with her child mind and body implying she can't age normally (Lace also describes herself as silk meant to act like a child)

The journal entry doesn't specify "Child of Grand Mother Silk" it just says "child"

[edgy river]

Yeah, I didn't know that was specified tho

[dusky bay]

Tbh I would take hornet x shakra more...

[foggy fractal]

there's also a bajillion more child statements

a silksongillion

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

Though the meta text calling her one is pretty hard to argue against

[edgy river]

I think hornet is kinda young compared to most weavers tho, but we don't really have a timeline so who knows

[trail shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-gif-1317513878955975206

[foggy fractal]

some will raise their voice to cry otherwise anyway

[edgy river]

Me on underworks

[sinful nimbus]

TUFF

[prime scaffold]

Where have i seen that bee before

[foggy fractal]

hollow knight

[silk dirge]

STEEL CITY REFERENCE

[edgy river]

Bee movie probably?

[prime scaffold]

I swear i saw her in HK1

[edgy river]

She's queen vespa from HK, but she is dead in that game

We only get to see her ghost

[prime scaffold]

yeah the pic on the right is in HK1, is the pic on the left from HK1 or 2

[cedar skiff]

is the second her sk sprite or fanart

[foggy fractal]

from the first game

[prime scaffold]

I always thought it was creepy ass weird she just stood there in HK1

[foggy fractal]

both from the first game, left is ghost, right is her corpse

[cedar skiff]

ohhh

it looks so silksong weirdly enough

[edgy river]

About that, at least now we have a good clue to why Herah wanted a child so much, even becoming a dreamer for it.

Ig she knowing about the situation back home means having a child with a Pale Being was one of the only ways for that kid to be strong enough to be "free" (or possibly free their home like hornet does, but idk if Herah really cared about that)

[sinful nimbus]

yeah why is there color and good shading in MY hollow knight

[foggy fractal]

ari is just that guy

[whole marsh]

You can talk to her

[dusky bay]

Actually herrah told hornet to do what she wants and not listen to the other weavers

Who wanted her to kill and bind gms

Which ofc she doesn't do

[prime scaffold]

Eyo what hapopened to broskies

[sinful nimbus]

She's dead

[cedar skiff]

ok i think thats what got me rly because it feels so saturated which is unusual for hk and Very usual for sk

[edgy river]

Iirc the second pic is on the background somewhere in the hive

[dusky bay]

They died to either them using all their powers or to the everbloom bec they are void creatures

[whole marsh]

They're not void

[dusky bay]

You can hit the necklace of the maid and it will drop roasaries btw

[dusky bay]

Why they black tho?

[whole marsh]

Their appearance is just an artstyle thing

[edgy river]

Oh no

Not this again

[sinful nimbus]

You can see them dissipate into soul for the spell

[dusky bay]

Like don't get me wrong all snail shamens have some sort of associate with void

[foggy fractal]

just because
black = void logic is bad cuz y'know, so many things are just black, are weavers void cuz they're black ?

chef logoli ?

[sinful nimbus]

only one...

[foggy fractal]

groal ?

[edgy river]

They are associated with it but I don't think they are made of void

[whole marsh]

Art style thing.

[twin dragon]

hornet is void because shes black

[foggy fractal]

skull tyrant ?

[dusky bay]

That's a spider or void

[edgy river]

Elderbug is void confirmed

[cedar skiff]

does anyone have the vespa fight spritesheet

[twin dragon]

thats a fucking onion btw

[dusky bay]

And collector is?

[whole marsh]

Collector is void

[edgy river]

I hope we don't start that conversation

[twin dragon]

no im js pointing and laughing

[cedar skiff]

vespa fight in red memory really would have gone hard

[whole marsh]

Collector is the only void being we encounter (and fight) outside of the Abyss in both games.

[cedar skiff]

i understand the decision to cut it but also yeah

[dusky bay]

We can't really know if they are void or not unless we hit them
Sadly we can't hit shamens smh

[edgy river]

Yes because he was an imprint from PK that has gone loose. He's a kingsmold without armour

[cedar skiff]

imagine a real white palace platforming segment and a vespa fight

[dusky bay]

It would be abit laggy for some pcs
My pc lags abit with red memory

[edgy river]

Void beings are rare and we only know about artificial ones haves "form" so i don't think they are void

[whole marsh]

They die in both games, we see how their bodies fall apart. It's different from void based creatures (which liquify upon death)

[dusky bay]

What if we end up fighting vespa
Herrah
Pale king in godhome!!

[whole marsh]

Snails just break into black particles, they don't liquify

[foggy fractal]

idk, maybe through elegy of the deep shenningans

[dusky bay]

Also is it me or is vespa abit more fatter in silksong than hollow knight

Or bigger

[edgy river]

Ig that could be explained so i don't think it's confirmed they're NOT void but considering how rare void is I think it's very unlikely

[dusky bay]

The dream vespa looks wayyy different in hollow knight

[edgy river]

Also hornet would have mentioned if she saw void when talking to them probably. She only talks about it after the portal

[cedar skiff]

i wonder how many of her attack would have mirrored hornets. its kinda hard to make out from just the sprites

[twin dragon]

fucking

summoned saviour

[whole marsh]

oh yeah, that too lmao

[foggy fractal]

she looks pretty much the same aside from the spirit making her colours different

[prime scaffold]

Did they know they were gonna die

[foggy fractal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddJLMQUHp6Q&t=1132s we have this

[edgy river]

Don't body shame vespa, red memory was a more fruitful time for Hallownest and adjacent kingdoms than when HK happened

She was enjoying the times of peace

[edgy river]

Probably

[dusky bay]

She looks abit bigger tbh that's all

[foggy fractal]

I don't see it

[whole marsh]

It's never explicitly stated, but I like to think they probably knew, considering they knew how to do the spell and what it would require/cost.

[dusky bay]

Yea
They just corrected their mistake

[prime scaffold]

Whats the lore on this guy

[edgy river]

Also it's not like they would live against void-infused GMS attacking the kingdom so it's kinda what had to be done

[whole marsh]

He has vitiligo

[dusky bay]

If you take them both side by side (not from far) you will see her size is smaller and that the brown cloth looks different

[cedar skiff]

yeah i just looked at this, the teleport slash attack looks a little like hornets default charged attack

[dusky bay]

He is one of the 3 molted skarrs
I think molted skarrs are banned from the tribe

[foggy fractal]

that's both due to her being a ghost

[whole marsh]

Real Answer: he's discolored, likely due to some sickness, or birth defect. Whatever it is, other ants that have the same markings seem to be able to freely resist the haunting, but are also hunted by the rest of the tribe.

[foggy fractal]

from what I can see she isn't any bigger or smaller, actually give me a second

[whole marsh]

They're outcasts that are still loyal to Karmalita

[dusky bay]

Also gotta like how hive knight kinda copies her attacks from the sprites
-# also he swallowed 50 billion bees

[prime scaffold]

Found this randomly in the far fields, what is it?

[silk dirge]

peak

go to craw lake

[dusky bay]

They wanna meet you

The craws

[prime scaffold]

The who

[twin dragon]

John craw is calling

[edgy river]

The queen died and he immediately resorted to eat her people

[prime scaffold]

Sounds like... its in the Craw lake?

[silk dirge]

yup

[cedar skiff]

but tbf needle strike isnt even taught to hornet by her

[foggy fractal]

actually I think you're right on Vespa being a bit bigger than her ghost counterpart in red memory, though we do see her grow a lot more to be like 2 rooms big so it's not that suprising lore wise, though they did it probably to make Vespa fit in better compared to Hornet, who is much taller than the knight

[cedar skiff]

its just the double attack similarities

[edgy river]

Yeah

[lone folio]

Yep

Also this is the lore channel

[twin dragon]

wrong, its in the abyss

where you fight john craw

[dusky bay]

Vespa smaller than hornet and kicked her ass in a lil form

[foggy fractal]

though her ghost form isn't smaller than hornet still

she's still taller

[edgy river]

Do we know how much later is SS compared to HK?

[whole marsh]

nope

[dusky bay]

I still wonder why many people say the godhome ending is the canon one

The biggest reason I think its not bec of pure vessel

Like I don't think pure vessel is leaving hornet be kidnapped-

[whole marsh]

Because the Shade Lord (form) shows up in SS's ending

[edgy river]

I think both godhome and DnM are cannon

And i like that

[whole marsh]

Either or

I don't think both can happen together

[cedar skiff]

the all new pinstress is from the hive theory

[whole marsh]

But they both achieve the same thing (more or less)

[cedar skiff]

i dont actually believe this i think but its funny how similar the stances are

more attack simiarities than hornet

[edgy river]

I mean we really don't know, maybe he wasn't near her

[sinful nimbus]

OK but she has a sprite where she conducts the bees

Is she Conductor Romino

[foggy fractal]

there are a few reasons

1. the slashes that the knight does are associated with etv
2. void given focus appears, which is associated with etv
3. the hollow knight's shade isn't present, which could mean it's still out there, which is associated with etv

though we also have imagery that is associated with dnm instead, such as void given form and the siblings
and we have no way to confirm one ending over the other, so it's ambigious between the two

[foggy fractal]

yes

[dusky bay]

I think it's kinda random tho
Bec he showed up then it's the Canon one
Again why would pure vessel leave hornet get kidnapped

Also she said she wouldn't leave another kingdom fall

And in hk that she would sit back and watch

And attack in the right moment

[sinful nimbus]

the heck would a weakened hollow knight do against the citadel members

[dusky bay]

Which her doing literally nothing

[cedar skiff]

those conducting enemies always gave me hive vibes

[twin dragon]

They couldve just parted ways yknow

[fathom hill]

maybe thk didn't let hornet get kidnapped, but got got anyways, or they're just not that close after the ending

[limpid summit]

Lay down and die like it should giving it final rest

[fathom hill]

Hornet doesn't mention them ever so who really knows

[limpid summit]

Idk why Hornet doesn’t mention THK directly besides like ambiguity I guess

[fathom hill]

I like to think that they're out there, that's why i like the godhome ending but

[dusky bay]

When I got pure vessel to 25% hp he brought out tentacles

[limpid summit]

Soul master mention

[fathom hill]

really who is to say, tc certainly won't say lol

cuz they want to keep the ending ambiguous

[edgy river]

Exactly, "another" kingdom. Hallownest already fell way before the events of the game

[sinful nimbus]

Big whoop

[dusky bay]

...okay that's abit far stretched don't you think?
Bec why would they do that and what's your evidence
Or are you saying that bec shade lord just appeared and want it to be the canon one

[whole marsh]

Pure Vessel has no tie to Hornet. No reason for it to protect her. Plus a "chamber" in a chorus is around 40 individuals, so GMS probably sent out A LOT of soldiers to capture Hornet. She had to have put up a good fight since only a handful were left to bring her to Pharloom.

[edgy river]

In every ending, the kingdom fell so what line works on both

[sinful nimbus]

I mean its not like all the Citadel henchman need to come out alive

[fathom hill]

yah hallownest has stayed long fallen tbf

[dusky bay]

They are half siblings plus I am sure trained together atleast abit
And if the knight had attachment to her pure vessel would too

[fathom hill]

we don't know this though

[limpid summit]

Did GMS use silkeaters to find the Weavers

[dusky bay]

And again pure vessel would atleast run to find her

[edgy river]

I feel like they probably caught her by surprise with a seal of binding of some sort? Idk how tho

Ig I do know how she gets got during the game on the slab event

[dusky bay]

Pure vessel is from the queen and king
Hornet is from herrah and king
Half siblings

[twin dragon]

i feel like theyve left it ambiguous on purpose

[fathom hill]

Hornet was born a lil before Herrah was bound to be a dreamer, so who knows if they ever interacted

[twin dragon]

as for evidence theres noone

[whole marsh]

The Knight directly interacts with her several times throughout the game. She activly helps him. She has no interaction with THK at all. We have nothing to suggest Hornet trained with THK at all

[edgy river]

HKs world is difficult to navigate and he wouldn't know where Pharloom is

[fathom hill]

Ik they're half siblings, but that doesn't directly mean connection

Just look how many Hornet hunted while being sentinel

[whole marsh]

It's more like, THK is a corpse of Hornet's dead sibling that's being puppeted by void

[edgy river]

As soon as they're out of Hallownest no one in there can really find her. Knight can get to there because of void shenanigans

[fathom hill]

The connection with the knight was special because of its will I'm sure, who knows what thk is like nowadays

[dusky bay]

That is a good point but I find it kinda weird he left her still kid kidnapped like that

[fathom hill]

And again, who knows if even before they were put in the egg Hornet and thk ever interacted directly

[cedar skiff]

awww

damn that screenshot is horrible

[dusky bay]

Hornet would've atleast interacted with him abit and they became friends after all where would THK go after he got out of the black egg
He also needed treatment since his mask was shattered abit

[edgy river]

From what we know he tried to stop and couldn't or didn't noticed until it was too late. The world of HK is not mapped out so Hallownest could be on fire and all remaining citizens could be looking out for her and probably wouldn't find her

[midnight zinc]

All wyrms are described as pulling bugs into their bubble or circle, they establish kingdoms and elevate the minds of bugs, and also have a form of foresight. Higher beings are simply those that exist above all others, and this description of wyrms fits that to a T. I’d say what likely makes the PK unique is his pale nature gives him a unique connection to soul that other wyrms might not have, since it’s implied that other wyrms aren’t necessarily pale, and this affinity for soul isn’t described to be a quality of wyrms by Mr Mushroom or Bardoon.

[whole marsh]

For all we know, THK could have attacked Hornet and she ended up finishing him off, or it's body fell apart after leaving the black egg, and it's shade returned to the void sea

[dusky bay]

...I don't think that's what happened at all at this point you are abit theorizing too much

Hornet was shocked and challenged him out of fear

She didn't know he wasn't infected

[whole marsh]

as are you lol, we're in headcannon territory

[fathom hill]

I mean we really cannot know cuz again Hornet doesn't mention them

But idk if they became shade since they don't appear in sotv

Now something something they're just outta frame

something something it's to keep endings ambiguous

who knows

[midnight zinc]

Why would it attack her, it’s not infected. When it comes out of the black egg it’s simply leaning on its nail since it’s so injured, Hornet simply reacts to it appearing on instinct. No reason for them to fight.

[cedar skiff]

wait

im making connections never made before

[dusky bay]

...how am I going far stretch its just weird bec pure vessel would've atleast done something
They can't part ways they are after all the last 2 wyrms to live and he has no reason to leave
Hornet wouldn't attack him when he isn't infected

[fathom hill]

I'm sure the implication is that they fight

they both take "battle" stances

[edgy river]

Wait, where is the idea that a Pale Being means connection to Soul

[dusky bay]

Tbh you would do the same
If inside is the source of the infection and magically something comes out you would immediately react with guard up

[whole marsh]

I know, I'm making an opposing argument to show there's nothing to support what they're saying. There's nothing to support what im saying either, so it's just as possible.

[cedar skiff]

i always forget about that one cutscene

[midnight zinc]

No? THK is leaning on it's nail because it's injured and weak. Hornet gets into a battle stance because she is expecting it to be infected, but it isn't aggressive. The implication is that since this is the only ending where THK survives, that it remains alive after what we see.

[blissful harbor]

thk kinda just plants it’s nail into the ground, that’s not very battle stance ready

[cedar skiff]

team cherry address me

[dusky bay]

Pintress

[midnight zinc]

All three known pale beings have some sort of affinity for soul. This isn't a solid connection, just a possible difference between the PK and other wyrms.

[fathom hill]

they won't

[dusky bay]

Anyways I gtg draw shit

[fathom hill]

videogam

[midnight zinc]

I'm late to this conversation so I guess I missed context, mb

[fathom hill]

I'll check the footage again

[dusky bay]

Woah I am connected to a pale being?
-# sorry I had to do it-

[edgy river]

White lady?

[fathom hill]

the music is kind of like

anticipation

And thk moves their nail when hornet takes the stance

So ehh?

maybe?

[blissful harbor]

the music is very interesting yes, but it’s very unlikely the two would fight for real

[whole marsh]

gives half of the kingvessle, which gives unlimited soul

[blissful harbor]

hornets not dumb, she just saw the infection wither away

[limpid summit]

THK is probably leaning on its nail because it’s crippled and armless

[fathom hill]

No but that's what I'm saying, the implication for me it's that they fight

but not all fights are (or rather end up) lethal

Maybe Hornet just flees or something

Who is to say

[midnight zinc]

The white lady is just weird and confusing in general, because what exactly she does is unclear. But her unique ability to create life runs parallel to the idea of soul being this universe's life force.

[limpid summit]

True alus true

[fathom hill]

That's for sure

[blissful harbor]

WL is like always surronded by soul it’s ok she gets a pass

[limpid summit]

Don’t let anyone ever tell you WL can’t empower life

[fathom hill]

i mean

creating life is using soul

[midnight zinc]

Also she's basically half of the kingsoul, which generates infinite soul

[fathom hill]

Soul is an actual word too

maybe that's her thing?

[midnight zinc]

It'd be weird in my opinion if she's needed to create the kingsoul but has no connection to soul herself.

[fathom hill]

yah yah

[blissful harbor]

i mean she literally creates the charm out of soul for us i’m i’m not mistaken
i might be remembering wrong it’s been a while since hk

[fathom hill]

Maybe soul just expresses diferently, what we've seen it's mostly for combat (and ig immortality)

[blissful harbor]

maybe conjures is a better word not create

[fathom hill]

maybe she is just not the fighter

[midnight zinc]

I don't think she's creating it, its the union of her and the PK that created it, she's kinda just summoning it. But the charm might literally be made out of soul

Also the voidheart's relationship to this is confusing, because how literal "void within" is... nebulous

[whole marsh]

Seems to be more literal than not since it's permanently equip after it changes

[midnight zinc]

Sorry the exact phrasing is "An emptiness that was hidden within, now unconstrained." So how literal it is that this emptiness is in the Kingsoul, not just the knight, is nebulous imo

[whole marsh]

ah

Yeah I've got nothing lol, no clue.

[midnight zinc]

This has more to do with the knight fully embracing its void nature after the birthplace cutscene. Like there wasn't literally void inside the Kingsoul, but the embracing of the void within the knight transforms it into the Voidheart, like a more significant version of how soul spells are corrupted by the void within the knight.

[cedar skiff]

im telling you im making connections never made before

[midnight zinc]

The shade soul specifically, the void in that spell isnt from the snail shaman, its the knight's void twisting the spell. I imagine the apotheosis of the knight transforms the Kingsoul with its own void, not any amount of void inside the kingsoul somehow being dormant until its in the Abyss.

[fathom hill]

oh this one is quite interesting

[cedar skiff]

and shes the character that teaches hornet

you know who else has taught hornet

vespa

i can imagine anything

[whole marsh]

I'm 99% sure it's just a gameplay thing, but it's an interesting thought. Not sure how you'd actually connect them since the only crossover between Pharloom and Hallownest were the Weaver immigrants

[fathom hill]

I mean the weavers did eventually had a connection to the hive

[whole marsh]

Weavers fight very differntly though

[fathom hill]

but idk how likely its that the hive just learned from the pintresses through the weavers or something

[cedar skiff]

tbh i was just looking for similarities between vespa and hornets attacks for fun since youd think theyd have similarities but ended up making this insane of a reach connection

[whole marsh]

They don't use pins or equivilant weapons

[fathom hill]

or viceversa when the weavers fled back to pharloom

[fathom hill]

Yah

[cedar skiff]

strangely enough vespa and hornet dont have that many similarities <//3 tc is usually very keen on fight choreography storytelling

[fathom hill]

Prolly more of a videogame thing but to be fair

This game does that with the pintresses (and lace/phantom) already

With other enemies having moves similar to tell a story bit

So who knows

[cedar skiff]

pinstress alr has similarities to second sentinel

some of the citadel enemies share similarities with hornet

[midnight zinc]

Vespa herself says the Hive is technically within Hallownest, they just played no part in the vessel/dreamer plan. But it being technically a part of Hallownest makes me think Hornet's connection to her is through her position as Hallownest royalty than her weaver nature.

[fathom hill]

I mean it's cutted

[cedar skiff]

and yeah first sinner and hornet bind the same

[fathom hill]

who knows if they'll change it up really

[whole marsh]

I imagine it's just a standard move for that type of weapon. In isolation if you were practicing to fight with a pin, you'd likely come up with that move on your own.

[cedar skiff]

yeah true but it was like a fully animated fight audio included

i get the decision to have cut it from red memory cause its kinda tension breaking

[fathom hill]

Who is to say

I always thought it was her weaver thing since the tram that connects deepnest with the hive (although destroyed)

[fathom hill]

I mean they prolly adding her to godhome if it's that ready

but that's gonna be in a while

[cedar skiff]

well vespa does say THIS hive

here before dlc introduces another hive close to pharloom

honestly id fuck with more bee lore

that hivesteel tidbit has to be elaborated on

surely

[whole marsh]

There is another hive in Hallownest, she could have been referring to that

[fathom hill]

I'm sure lace just does the same too lol

[whole marsh]

But probably not tbh

[fathom hill]

but she may have just take it from the pintresses

[silk dirge]

wtf is this https://youtu.be/Rp-gPD_-RM4?si=LtMSa4Ko1hT9_TkP

[fathom hill]

twice I've seen this one shared now

I'll check it sure

[cedar skiff]

that thumbnail is horrifying eww

[silk dirge]

"spoilers for old and new testaments" is crazy 😭

[whole marsh]

Probably not since they were cast out and hunted down. Lace seems more recent than that.

[fathom hill]

wait

jacob geller??

Holy shit

[silk dirge]

i have no idea who this is

im very curious tho

[fathom hill]

Maybe she took it from the sentinels that took it from the pintresses

since sentinel parry attack is practically the same

[whole marsh]

That's a good point

[sinful nimbus]

No one can convince me to unironically watch a jacob geller video

[silk dirge]

i have no idea who this guy even is so im curious

[fathom hill]

He makes good essays abt various media

[silk dirge]

i see

[sinful nimbus]

When you say pseudo-intellectual that's the dude who pops into my mind

[fathom hill]

You trippin

[sinful nimbus]

this your goat dude

[fathom hill]

He can go wild with some things but imo he's fine

Haven't seen his most recent stuff though

[sinful nimbus]

"Staring into the Sun and Other Ways of Capturing Transcendence"

[fathom hill]

this one i like a lot

or the fear of the cold one

[whole marsh]

This isn't SS lore related, but when I was a kid, I would literally lay in the grass and stare directly into the sun for fun. IDK how I didn't go blind.

[fathom hill]

same

now i have astigmatism

[stable violet]

the only time i looked directly at the sun was with sun protection glasses to see the 2024 solar eclipse but thats neither here nor there

anyways

[fathom hill]

the vid its ok

i actually really like the idea that act 3 is a reward for the player for engaging with pharloom, like hornet does

[sinful nimbus]

""reward""

[twin dragon]

I love the fact that important events actually have an impact on the world

[fathom hill]

i actually did a semi analysis yesterday abt this

i was mostly just yapping

theres a non zero chance jacob saw my yapping and stole it

fucker

[twin dragon]

o

elaborate

[fathom hill]

I have screenshots cuz

I'm narcissistic like that

also my age of the internet rant can be diregarded

[twin dragon]

this is interesting

I believe act 3 incites you to actually fix things

but we don't see things fixed unfortunately

due to it being left to ambiguity

[fathom hill]

we are told that it will happen tbf

Through gilly (?) and sherma

whats the name of the one with leaves

[twin dragon]

gilly

[fathom hill]

We are told that pharloom will survive eventually, cuz hornet holds hope

[twin dragon]

And so do few

[fathom hill]

the same hope that makes her say that she will not sacrifice herself in the void

[twin dragon]

though some seem really out of it

[twin dragon]

(she almost got binded by gms if lace didn't intervene)

[fathom hill]

there's certainly something a connection that we do while playing that is reflected on hornet me thinks

There's actions we can take

and the player isn't even real in canon

[twin dragon]

There's hope we can give

[fathom hill]

But it must be for the game to function, cuz this is the medium used

[twin dragon]

Hornet is reflected in the player

YOU are hornet

and you just kinda roll with it

[fathom hill]

Yah

The evolution the player goes through by learning and engaging with the game parallels Hornet's own connection with Pharloom

As said, if you didn't engage with the game you won't make the "first step", you won't break the cycle, you'll just stop playing. The credits already rolled right?

But if you engaged with it you'll open the save again and do what was left in it

On which the surprise should be the final act, the solution to breaking the cycle

Something you weren't searching directly before if you played blind

[twin dragon]

The one that's riddled with hopelessness

while you're the one beacon of hope

[fathom hill]

you just did it cuz you love the game yknow

[twin dragon]

harm that you've caused, and might be wanting to fix

That would ultimately lead to a better outcome

I js love that there's much more hardship involved in the true ending of this game

[fathom hill]

yea yea

Also someone said that

these two first endings are done to instill that idea of wrongness

this shouldn't be the ending you'd want for these characters

again the "that's it?" in the story

[dusky bay]

Huh binding first sinner was gonna be like widow

Also the heart animation was changed

[visual glacier]

That’s cut content not lore

[sinful nimbus]

All the tuffest bosses can be bound

I like that its a bit unique each time and First Sinner willingly being bound is pretty nice

[dusky bay]

Hornet out plung her hand inside their chest and pull it
Khann had a special one for some reason

His chest would be broken and there would be coral out of him

[sinful nimbus]

bro wants to be Raiden so bad 😭

[dusky bay]

I can see why they made it like widow at first but yea her letting you bind her after defeating her is better

[dusky bay]

Tbh I am different the two look good the slash one where hornet takes their heart (the one we have rn) looks great

But the cut one looks cool too

[frosty gate]

Idk where people keep getting cut content lmao

[foggy fractal]

the cut content wiki page

[barren beacon]

So, Why Does The Knight have to slash the Tendrils away from Hornet?

Isn't the Void directly under It's will?

[visual glacier]

Not all of it

Just a large portion of the void

[barren beacon]

Define "Large Portion"? Only Hallownest's void?

Does that mean that Voidheart only gives control over some Void, not all of it?

Is it a retcon ?

[visual glacier]

Just a large amount

[lone folio]

It gives him a uhh.. Slight control over 7 yards of lake

[barren beacon]

[twin dragon]

I'd say it doesn't give tk remote control over the void

[barren beacon]

Okay so But Is The Knight Void Given Focus/Void Given Form?

[twin dragon]

i'd say it makes the void recognize him as the authority figure

[barren beacon]

Or is Void Given Focus a different entity

[twin dragon]

and part of the void

[random harbor]

Hunter's Journal: Void Idol

Description:
Attuned
Rare artifact from a time before Hallownest. Contains a drop of liquid from the Abyss.

Ascended
Rare artifact from a time before Hallownest. Volatile liquid of the Abyss writhes within.

Radiant
Rare artifact from a time before Hallownest, its spires twined in a unified form. Contains a large amount of liquid from the Abyss, perfectly still.

Hunter's notes:
"Inspired or mad, those ancient bugs. They devoted their worship to no lord, or power, or strength, but to the very darkness itself."
- Lemm

@glorkishjames used /journal name: Void Idol

[lone folio]

I don't see how this helps

[twin dragon]

it doesnt

[twin dragon]

.

That's my take

[barren beacon]

It's symbolism trust

[visual glacier]

Vessels are still genderless btw

[barren beacon]

So we have no concrete conclusion? All this are theories?

[lone folio]

This doesn't help either

[twin dragon]

We've never rlly had one

[barren beacon]

Only TK and THK have been confirmed to be so

[twin dragon]

since THK's shade seemingly acted on his own

[visual glacier]

Nuh uh

[twin dragon]

in dnm+

[barren beacon]

Sure bud'

[grim kernel]

the knight isn't the void, maybe the void took his form to kill godhome

[barren beacon]

Wym "Kill Godhome"

[twin dragon]

TK IS the shade lord

in both endings

[barren beacon]

And The Knight is Void Given Focus

[twin dragon]

in godhome he's just attuned

[barren beacon]

Is Void Given Focus is Void Given Form, But Void Given Form isn't Void Given Focus

[visual glacier]

Either way, in lore discussions you should still be correct about established things like the knight being genderless

[barren beacon]

Yeah

[twin dragon]

Gender is irrelevant to bring up anyways

rn

[lone folio]

But that's not what we are talking about-

[barren beacon]

No one even called The Knight a gender

[frosty gate]

Nubbie does

[lone folio]

We are talking about land ownership in the abyss

Not gender

[barren beacon]

I forgor

[twin dragon]

when

why

how

[visual glacier]

The genderlessness is likely due to the knights void nature anyways

[lone folio]

Oh wait slow mode is off since when

[frosty gate]

.

[barren beacon]

Like 2 hours ago

[twin dragon]

oh wow my bad

[barren beacon]

Repent.

[twin dragon]

im gonna die now

cool

[lone folio]

I see

[twin dragon]

i've commit the gravest of sins

[barren beacon]

Alright well I won the argument

I'ma go play Pikmin now

bye yall

[twin dragon]

bro didn't even make a point

😭

[barren beacon]

[lone folio]

Well anyways why did the void attack Hornet if Hornet is void 🤔

[visual glacier]

Because hornet has soul

[twin dragon]

TRUE

[visual glacier]

Obviously

[twin dragon]

retcon

[lone folio]

Dang

[visual glacier]

The void attacks the knight too

[twin dragon]

they didnt make hornet void in this game

[visual glacier]

In hk

[twin dragon]

they made hornet SILK!!

[lone folio]

Bad storyline 1 star on yelp

[twin dragon]

ts is just bad

funny bad

[sinful nimbus]

Know your vessel pronouns
The Knight - It/its, they/them
The Hollow Knight - It/its
Broken Vessel - She/her, they/them (Because there are multiple lightseeds inside)
Greenpath Vessel - He/him

[twin dragon]

Ve/ssel

also works

[visual glacier]

Source?

[lone folio]

What makes greenpath dude so different?

[sinful nimbus]

Well they don't call him the greenpath DUDE for nothing

[nimble warren]

arent all of the vessels genderless and strictly use they/it

[lone folio]

He learned dash and gained gender

[sinful nimbus]

No

[lone folio]

but that's not in game

[twin dragon]

the knight is officially a nuclear bomb

[visual glacier]

Yes they are trolling

[twin dragon]

as he shares pronouns with one

[sinful nimbus]

Am not

[lone folio]

I see

[sinful nimbus]

The Greenpath stuff was a joke though

[visual glacier]

You did it again

[twin dragon]

Mb IT

[fathom hill]

it always was a nuclear bomb wym

[twin dragon]

its a nuke after all

[nimble warren]

im glad i got so scared

[unique canopy]

Which one is Cool/Hat

[fathom hill]

his pronouns are they/them !!

[sinful nimbus]

scared of what dawg

[twin dragon]

Fucking

gustavo fring ass

[visual glacier]

Everyone always misgender groal the great

[sinful nimbus]

Vessels being genderless only stems from TC conflating sex and gender that one time

Or two times I guess

[fathom hill]

mfw hornet is called the gendered child

[sinful nimbus]

That is the time yes

[twin dragon]

Groal the great identifies as a maggot lover

[frosty gate]

Was that ever even corrected or stated?

[visual glacier]

Doesn’t make it any less canon lol

[twin dragon]

Why give vessels gender

why

let me fix this

[sinful nimbus]

It does because its just TC using imprecise terminology

[twin dragon]

is lace a child?

[fathom hill]

also some npcs also refer to the knight as it

[fathom hill]

Oh

dude..

[sinful nimbus]

TK is actually genderless

[twin dragon]

the redirect attention spell is working!

[sinful nimbus]

That might not be true of other vessels

[fathom hill]

fuckk

[frosty gate]

Do you think if I just say Phantom right now it counts for my Phantom gender discussion spot in the bingo?

[lone folio]

50% because she's half void