sk-lore

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think there will ever be a conventional “surface” as we know it

[trail wagon]

I know TC aren't good at positioning locations accurately, but there's no way Crystal Peak is on the same level with the Nameless Town

Honestly I don't think it was hard at all ahahha

[edgy river]

I thought it was much easier than even white palace on HK but might be because i played it 7 years later, so idk

[lilac hedge]

Atleast hallownest crown

[sterile jacinth]

They’re probably very dang far from each other

[lethal burrow]

Random question but why is there an explosion in Mount Faye?

[trail wagon]

I wouldn't even call it PoP tbh

[craggy smelt]

the 'Surface' in pharloom matches the blue tinged wastelands of the howling cliffs area in Hallownest, and that area is said to be underground

[trail wagon]

Although PoP is also easy imo

[lethal burrow]

I think the surface is probably the surface

[craggy smelt]

in my head, this world isn't just some dumb round planet like our stupid world
it really is an underground forever world

[lilac hedge]

By surface you mean nameless town or

[trail wagon]

Honestly, the worst part of PoP is that it's hard to control the Knight, as opposed to Hornet

[trail wagon]

Idk, I found this map here on this server

[sterile jacinth]

Tk controls are super tight. I like how Hornet controls better

[trail wagon]

I mean there is THE surface in Silksong 😭

[edgy river]

I think "surface" in HK is just a bigger cave area with more open air and there's no actual surface. I don't even think they're underground the world is just not like Earth or anything we know

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah these are my thoughts

[trail wagon]

I don't think it matters

[sterile jacinth]

Imagine you do go high enough and just emerge on the streets of New York lmao

[lethal burrow]

So if hold on a second wait if Mr. mushroom flew off then what happened? Did he just bang his head against the ceiling?

That doesn't make any sense

[craggy smelt]

if he flies high enough

[frosty gate]

At the very least Howling Cliffs has a surface exit so I don't think it proves much

[trail wagon]

Yeah, when I did PoP the biggest issue was that 50% of the time the knight just doesn't do what I did on my keyboard. It's not the case with Hornet however

[sterile jacinth]

Clawline is also super nice I love it

[trail wagon]

I think there doesn't have to be Sun in the world of HK

Or anything like that

The surface is just the surface

[sterile jacinth]

The sun is dead /hj

[lethal burrow]

shade Lord:

[lethal burrow]

The surface of what though

[edgy river]

Really think knights controls are extremely fun and precise and never really had an issue but I like hornets moveset more because it's more complex and overall fast, tons of options, etc

[lilac hedge]

There is rain and thunder but no sun

I guess

[craggy smelt]

weather comes from weird magic bug gods

[trail wagon]

It's great lol

[abstract rivet]

hornet is more responsive

[trail wagon]

what do you mean

[lethal burrow]

Well, hallownest takes place during one long night, so it's said

[frozen hornet]

In my headcanon hollow knight is on an eyeball planet behind the terminator line. This would explain the constant wind and night at the surface.

[trail wagon]

what?

[sterile jacinth]

They’re super precise which means all the attacks require super precise dodging I think

[lethal burrow]

Hello are you? Are you conceiving?

[abstract rivet]

The issue about platforming challenges in Silksong is

no one of these challenge Hornets true potential

like PoP did

or White Palace

[sterile jacinth]

Pop was dlc

[lethal burrow]

yeah, we basically only have the path to the surface the cogwork core and Mount fay

[abstract rivet]

yeah i know

but yk what I mean

[lilac hedge]

Do nameless town parkour with beast or architect crest and thats it

[lethal burrow]

Beast is not hard to do platform with. It's just different.

[edgy river]

I don't even think it takes place in a planet but the wind would be a weird phenomenon otherwise i guess

[abstract rivet]

Its easy if you bother learning

[sterile jacinth]

Saw the pogo and immediately dipped

[lethal burrow]

It's just a horizontal pogo. It's so good.

Real ones know why they didn't give it any Bluecrest and only 4 tool slots. It's because it would be absolutely busted.

[edgy river]

Yeah i feel the same

[trail wagon]

The weather in HK is expremely weird

[sterile jacinth]

Might be controlled by gods

[edgy river]

The coolest challenge for me was mount Fay but then you get wings and it's like "wait what will test my use of wings then" and the answer is nothing

[lethal burrow]

OK, but the gods are dead and it still happens though so like they can't be the source

[trail wagon]

We have a MOUNTAIN but it's actually underground, and the snow is there because of some kind of material in the core of the mountain

We have WIND underground

[edgy river]

There is the path to surface but it was way too short and too easy

[sterile jacinth]

City of tears and graymoor both have external sources

[sinful nimbus]

We were really close to confirmation that the world wasn't spherical but they cut it

[lilac hedge]

Greymoor is just windmills

[trail wagon]

Why?

[lilac hedge]

And city of tears i dont know ac?

[craggy smelt]

the Pale Wyrm's cast-off shell in Kingdom's Edge continually produces wind, even after ages

[sterile jacinth]

I mean the rain

[trail wagon]

Wouldn't you say the Earth's core is also its base?

[lethal burrow]

I'm not talking about Rain though like that's thunder that's completely different weather phenomenon that needs certain things. Thunder and lightning Doesn't creep in from the cave above.

[sinful nimbus]

TC throws darts at a board to decide what to cut, apparently

[craggy smelt]

damn it
they cut all the best stuff

[trail wagon]

There's probably no rain in Greymoor, it's silk leftovers

[sinful nimbus]

Weird phrasing

[sterile jacinth]

Where is the thunder and lightning

[edgy river]

What about the rain in greymoor

[sterile jacinth]

It’s likely a mix of that and some of the muck water from sinners road

[lethal burrow]

There's a very rare chance to witness a God seeker memory

[sterile jacinth]

Aren’t they from land of storms?

[edgy river]

Where does it come from there is no blue lake

[trail wagon]

No, why would it confirm that the world is not a sphere?

[trail wagon]

I don't really think it's that weird

[lethal burrow]

yes? Isn't that the whole point of yeah I mean yes we we just literally talking about that.

[midnight zinc]

Maybe because it is spherical, or maybe they didn’t even consider that and cut it for unrelated reasons. Who knows.

[lethal burrow]

There's the idea that there is no surface and everything is just underground, but the land of storms doesn't really make sense with that

[sterile jacinth]

Silk dregs + dripping from the muck water in sinners road

[lethal burrow]

in the background, there is thunder and lightning, which reveals dead gods

[frozen hornet]

My headcanon (it's timestamped): https://youtu.be/MmI2hy1anjA?si=Pdo0RasPWeOYKmfY&t=1235

[trail wagon]

Is it surely rain? It might just some from Sinner's Road

[craggy smelt]

seems to be leaking in from above, via places like Sinner's Road, Bilewater, Pale Lake, maybe Mount Fay, etc.

[sinful nimbus]

Base typically refers to the bottom rather than the center

[sterile jacinth]

And I was saying those come from gods

[lethal burrow]

The ones that are dead

I don't think so

[edgy nebula]

shitwater rain

[lilac hedge]

Mount fay is a lil wild

[sinful nimbus]

Planets don't really have a bottom since they are spheres

[edgy river]

Oh sinners road makes sense yeah

[craggy smelt]

that one Flea Guy warns little fleas not to play in it

[trail wagon]

I don't think it has anything with the shape of the world. More likely it has to do with the fact that we would store the void which is not something that really happens in either of the games

[sterile jacinth]

Might be leftover from the dead gods. Like a lingering power

[lethal burrow]

I guess but I feel like that's more of a stretch than just saying there's a surface

[sinful nimbus]

Void Idol

[trail wagon]

It might be the surface

[frosty gate]

I leave 10 seconds why are we talking about gods now

[lethal burrow]

I think it's very likely

[edgy nebula]

we know hbs power can linger

it isnt too outlandish to say

[trail wagon]

I mean why would it necessarily be problematic? We have snow on Mount Fay which also needs clouds to produce, and it's underground

[midnight zinc]

I mean yeah that’s my point, team cherry cuts a lot of stuff, speculating as to their reasons without direct comments from them is usually not a fruitful endeavor

[sinful nimbus]

Its a magic bug world that doesn't have to adhere to grounded weather

[lethal burrow]

we don't have snow though it looks more like dandelions if anything

[sterile jacinth]

Fay is pretty far from graymoor lol

[edgy river]

Tbf it's "base" could be the core of the planner ig

[trail wagon]

You're probably right, but still

[sinful nimbus]

Its because they hate their fans

Kinda obvious

[craggy smelt]

I mean, have you met us?

[edgy river]

I also don't think it's spherical but i don't think this is conclusive

[craggy smelt]

we're pretty bad

[sinful nimbus]

Only because they made us this way

[midnight zinc]

If I was TC and I read this channel I would also hate all of you, so that’s understandable

[trail wagon]

The Knight carries it, right?

[lethal burrow]

oh, shut the hell up you're not just gonna say "who cares it doesn't need internal logic because it's a fantasy world"

it abide by its own rules. and for all fiction the default assumption is that it abides by ours as well, unless suggested otherwise.

[trail wagon]

Oh right

[sinful nimbus]

That has never been the default assumption what

[trail wagon]

No it IS snow. We can find a bench where some of it melts

[sinful nimbus]

The default position is "We don't know"

[edgy river]

Isn't kingsmolds technically storing the void inside?

[lethal burrow]

Yes, it is always the default assumption. take any narrative in any story. You assume it it's like real life until there's something to suggest otherwise.

[sinful nimbus]

I do not

[edgy nebula]

ive found some fuel for my crackpot theory

[edgy river]

Ig it's more like armour? Bur still

[trail wagon]

I'm talking about the Land of Storms. Greymoor's rain is not really rain, taht's for sure

[lethal burrow]

I don't believe you

[sinful nimbus]

OK?

[sterile jacinth]

I always assumed those were just because of the gods

[lethal burrow]

why am I not even talking to star why did they let myself get bated again? What's going on? Why am I like this?

[sinful nimbus]

Also this is a "Land of Storms" filled with the late "Gods of Thunder and Rain" in a universe established to not always follow conventional weather sources

[sterile jacinth]

Take a break

[sinful nimbus]

Gee I sure wonder where the thunder and rain comes from guys

[trail wagon]

Well, I meant like Hornet would store it in Maternum

[frozen hornet]

Coincidence? I think not!

[sinful nimbus]

Heck even Greymoor has weather systems

[lethal burrow]

She doesn't store water in the material

[sinful nimbus]

Substantially large caverns can have weather its not that weird

[craggy smelt]

Hornet: Only a fool would believe the Void can be controlled
*stores Void in her coffee table

[trail wagon]

wha

[frosty gate]

I agree things don't follow regular rules, but I still think Mt Fey's thing isn't snow, although it has breeze, that's uncommon i think

[trail wagon]

Yeah, that's precisely the thing

[lethal burrow]

You seem confused by every single thing I say when everything I say is not that confusing

[trail wagon]

So it wouldn't make sense for her to do that

[silk dirge]

the funny thing is she has like quest items in there

[sterile jacinth]

Blasted steps and Karak have breezes

[trail wagon]

Plus, the sprite looks like void tendrils

[lethal burrow]

Please stop

[silk dirge]

hornet just fucking took a piece of a courier delivery

[lethal burrow]

be less confused

[trail wagon]

I really don't understand what you're trying to say

[lilac hedge]

Tc seeing people conject spirtes to real astrology

[sinful nimbus]

Its related to Fayforn so its like magic snow or something

[sterile jacinth]

Oooh more for my collection lemme just

[trail wagon]

Because everything you're saying doesn't seem to have direct connection to what I said and I don't understand where you're going with it

[lethal burrow]

The words are in an order that is understandable because of what the order of the words is in the grammar in the English language, I don't understand

[silk dirge]

ok tbh i dont think hornet stores every item in the materium

hornet is definitely not storing the shaman souls used fo the snare in there

[edgy nebula]

hornet turns into coldshard when she freezes, do we think this has any relevance to karak's river freezing

[trail wagon]

What does Hornet not storing water in Maternum have to do with her storing void?

[sinful nimbus]

Never ask Hornet what the beating sound coming from her house is

[lethal burrow]

Because she doesn't store everything is the point

[frozen hornet]

Ok, but why would they use Laniakea supercluster as a sprite without any reason?

[sinful nimbus]

They don't

[trail wagon]

No pls

It is snow

[sinful nimbus]

Its a thing that resembles the supercluster

[sterile jacinth]

Lore it might benefit you if you take a break

[sinful nimbus]

#1 breaktaker

[frosty gate]

Who knows i'm tired of thinking of that

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah I got frustrated at #sk-lore too, had to take a couple of breaks

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with the arguing

[trail wagon]

I've lost the picture

Here I found it

[frozen hornet]

I think resembles is downplaying it a bit

[sterile jacinth]

It’s when people get super heated and angry over it

[trail wagon]

The left side of the bench doesn't have the snow

[frosty gate]

We're sorry Star, we can be a lot, find solace in the thought that people have felt the same whilst arguing with you probably

[trail wagon]

And the right side does, it's farther from the heat source

So it means it MELTS

[potent patio]

Does anyone have any clue why charms aren’t really present in silksong?

[sinful nimbus]

I don't really recall anyone being particularly heated or angry

[trail wagon]

Dandelion particles don't melt

[sterile jacinth]

Might just be something unique to hallownest

[trail wagon]

Because they wouldn't make sense gameplay-wise

[sterile jacinth]

Or calling people stupid for not understanding :P

[potent patio]

lore reason

[lilac hedge]

Wtf was that random choir guy tryna do in mount fay

[sterile jacinth]

Charms are known about in universe so they might just be a hallownest thing

[sinful nimbus]

bro is not familiar with the difficulty enjoyer meme 💔

[sterile jacinth]

Spread the gospel

lol 🤷‍♂️

[frosty gate]

I am not, but I also was half sarcastic, I assumed you were too

[trail wagon]

Idk probably hunting down Fayforn

[sinful nimbus]

smh can't believe I broke character

[lilac hedge]

Mf aint doing shit to that fella

[sterile jacinth]

That’s why they’re dead

[trail wagon]

Ohhh idk

[sinful nimbus]

Seeking enlightenment or something

[trail wagon]

ahaahahahathat's right

Anyways

Mt. Fay does have snow

[sterile jacinth]

It might be magic snow but I agree

[lilac hedge]

Its a mountain mate

[sterile jacinth]

That doesn’t really prove anything

[lilac hedge]

Idk if yall gonna say that it is actually some random magic flake shit, but it seems like snow

[trail wagon]

Like what?

I was just trying to say there's snow

In response to somebody saying there isn't

[sterile jacinth]

Just saying “it’s a mountain” doesn’t prove anything

[trail wagon]

When did I say that..?

[sterile jacinth]

I wasn’t responding to you

[trail wagon]

I don't even think it's really a mountain, it's underground

[trail wagon]

ohhh okay my bad, sorry

[trail wagon]

I think it can be explained by coldshards

[sterile jacinth]

Or fayforn

[trail wagon]

I mean there's not really anything that would tie it to Fayforn

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t have much evidence either way

[trail wagon]

And we know that there's this material called COLDshard

And it's in the Brightvein which is at the centre of the mountain

Hornet turns into COLDshard when she dies

[lilac hedge]

Mount fay is prob a lot bigger than we think

[trail wagon]

So probably that's what causes cold

[trail wagon]

It's very likely

[lilac hedge]

So the source of snow is maybe smth we dont know

[trail wagon]

Mt Fay weather is 100% not because it's very high

Because Songclave is on the same level, Nameless Town is even higher than Mt. Fay and in neither of those locations can we find snow

[trail wagon]

Why do we not know? 😅

We pretty much do, it's coldshard

[lilac hedge]

Coldshard?

[tepid mountain]

Yeah, but where’s the precipitation coming from?

Cold doesn’t create snow.

[trail wagon]

From the centre of the mountain, literally

ohhh

you mean like

yeah

Probably it causes the clouds above to produce snow

[tepid mountain]

The water has to be falling from somewhere to freeze.

[trail wagon]

that's true

[sterile jacinth]

Might be fayforn :P

[tepid mountain]

So there’s something above / around Mount Fay that’s causing it to constantly be precipitating.

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t really know

[tepid mountain]

If there are gods of thunder and rain that can create those, why couldn’t Fayforn be a god that creates the snow? Or some other unseen god.

[trail wagon]

ahahahaha

Maybe Fayforn is the cloud

[sterile jacinth]

Mr mushroom talks to them so there’s obviously something special about them

We just don’t really know what that thing is

[trail wagon]

Yeah, not sure it's necessarily a god

[sterile jacinth]

Not saying that

[trail wagon]

But it's definitely a powerful creature

Hopefully we'll get some info on that in the DLC

[frosty gate]

Mythical at the very least

More mythical than Pale Stag

[sterile jacinth]

lol pale stag is a memory twisted by legend and time

[tepid mountain]

“God” in the HK world feels like a pretty loose term tbh.

[sterile jacinth]

Also freaking sucks as a boss

[lilac hedge]

They call 4 moss chargers a god so i dont even know what to call it

[frosty gate]

Which is why Metal hates Godseeker

[sterile jacinth]

Godseekers definition is out of desperation and I don’t think they should be counted

[trail wagon]

wait why

It's not in the memory

Pale Stag only appears in the memory

[frosty gate]

Wdym

[trail wagon]

ahahahah

they call a fat fly a god 😭

[sterile jacinth]

Not as in coming from myth but more just special in nature

[trail wagon]

Fayforn is not mythical, because it's real

We can see it

[sterile jacinth]

Godseekers have a very loose desperate definition of what a god is

[lilac hedge]

Just a very very strong foreign creature

Maybe

[trail wagon]

Pale Stag might've never existed, because we don't actually see it anywhere in Pharloom, we only see it in GP's memory, and even he says "did it ever truly exist?"

[sterile jacinth]

I think they mean it less in that it’s not real and more like it’s very special in nature

[frosty gate]

That's a very literal interpretation of what I said

[trail wagon]

Probably they just test anybody

[trail wagon]

I mean there are husk statues in Godhome 😭

[sinful nimbus]

Fayforn is described as "Fell heart of frost" soo

[lilac hedge]

Its just a game mechanic to have a reason to replay bosses

[trail wagon]

Ohhh okay, got it

[lethal burrow]

I doubt the green prince just got high on mushrooms and didn't actually hunt anything

[trail wagon]

I'm sorry, I misinterpreted you probably

[sterile jacinth]

Well there’s probably a lore explanation too

[lethal burrow]

Where is it described that way?

[sinful nimbus]

Mr Mushroom tablet

[trail wagon]

Where is that? I don't remember that lol

[sterile jacinth]

And it’s that they’re desperately looking for another patron god

[lethal burrow]

That's just referring to the region I think not specifically the beast

[sterile jacinth]

And will pretty much take anything at this point

[sinful nimbus]

"Fell heart of frost, who soars on high"

Def fayforn

[frosty gate]

Dw, I didn't say "Mythical" seriously, it's just an awesome creature

[trail wagon]

Probably he did, but not necessarily the Pale Stag, probably just the small ones

[lethal burrow]

well, screw Mr. mushroom for calling it fell

That's mean as hell

[sinful nimbus]

Well she does kill people if she wakes up in a bad mood

[trail wagon]

screw Mr. Mushroom

[sterile jacinth]

It might have just been an albino clover stag that just got twisted and became the subject of prophecy

[teal drift]

Hornet should be able to pluck the heart out of fayforn to feed the snails

[lethal burrow]

where it might have been actually pale

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet's too scared of Fayforn's raw strength surely

[frosty gate]

"But what a bout the murder-"
"What murrrderr???"

[trail wagon]

Noooo they were so kiiind

[lethal burrow]

Hornet should be able to pluck the heart out of fayforn to "test her strength"

[frosty gate]

It's a fluffy bird, she'd rather kill gay people for it

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt it was literally pale. I think from legend and gp warped memory it gained more of a legendary status than it had in life. I think it existed but it was not magical in the way we see it

[trail wagon]

Why do gays always die in Hollow Knight lmao

[frosty gate]

Sheo and Nailsmith are cool

[sterile jacinth]

To be fair pretty much everyone dies in hk

[trail wagon]

Oh wait you're right

I forgot abotu them

[trail wagon]

hahaha

OMG

I just came up with an idea

You guys remember this from yesterday?

[lilac hedge]

I need more lifeblood shit bru

[sterile jacinth]

I wish we got more lore about Joni

[trail wagon]

So there are three new rooms that look a lot like Hunter's March. What if they're related to Gilly's father? She mentions she is following her father's last wish and is exporing the caves

[lethal burrow]

sounds like you're addicted

[sterile jacinth]

Besides the awful charm

[trail wagon]

We are getting it appartently

[lilac hedge]

Maybe..

[sterile jacinth]

“I can stop anytime”

[trail wagon]

Have you heard of Submarine?

[silk dirge]

yes

[trail wagon]

I remember you hahaha

[silk dirge]

what year is bay_01 from

[frosty gate]

What are these images again?

[trail wagon]

These are cut rooms that are present on the August 2025 map

[silk dirge]

bc i dont remember bay_01 being on the august 2025 map

[trail wagon]

Yeah it wasn't

However

[frosty gate]

Oh ok

[trail wagon]

There are some sketches near Bilewater

Probably they would remake some of the Bay rooms

[frosty gate]

Well, time to see if I can figure out the timeline again

[trail wagon]

Can't wait for the Hunter's March DLC

[frosty gate]

(I will die in the process)

[trail wagon]

godbless

wish you luck

[sterile jacinth]

🫡

[frosty gate]

It's a Devil's Curse honestly, this fucking game makes no sense

[sterile jacinth]

Real </3

[trail wagon]

Yeaah ahahah

We still don't know who imprisoned the FS

[frosty gate]

I will not be lied to, Hollow Knight wasn't half as incoherent as this timeline

[trail wagon]

We still don't know who put pins in Widow's back

[frosty gate]

Which is like a big fucking turning point of the plot and the timeline

[trail wagon]

Yeah

[sterile jacinth]

We love not mentioning a unit of time measurement ever

[trail wagon]

That's right

[trail wagon]

That too lol

Well there is some

Like "eternal"

[frosty gate]

I don't mind that they don't, but it's the lack of info on stuff that makes you wonder

[trail wagon]

and "before"

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah lmao

[trail wagon]

btw quick question

[frosty gate]

Like yeah sure Phantom was tasked to do Waste cleanup

BY WHO

[sterile jacinth]

I wonder if it’s somewhat intentional. To have something so ancient it’s been “lost to time” in a sense

[trail wagon]

how do we know Silksong doesn't take place centuries after HK? 💀

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t

[frosty gate]

We don't

[sterile jacinth]

It could

[trail wagon]

What if it is

lol

[frosty gate]

I mean, nothing really changes

[sterile jacinth]

Then it would take place centuries after

Yea Hornet has some ageless quality to her shell

[terse warren]

girlboss

[trail wagon]

Yeah, that's right

[sterile jacinth]

We just know it takes place after hk

[trail wagon]

It can literally happen thousands of years after

[sterile jacinth]

It could

[trail wagon]

or one day

[frosty gate]

I want to believe it doesn't take that long

[trail wagon]

what is one day btw...

[frosty gate]

Hornet was found in Hallownest

[trail wagon]

are there days in Hollow Knight?..

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe not that soon but technically yea

[frosty gate]

Not time cycle from what we know

The sun is dead and there's only caves

[sterile jacinth]

I love how it’s just “oh that was a long fuckin time ago”

[frosty gate]

I'm not even kidding, there is no sun

[terse warren]

radiance is not literally the sun

[sterile jacinth]

What am I gonna fight the sun 🤨

[frosty gate]

Btw I'm doing this behind the assumption that the Weavers did it

[trail wagon]

ahahaha right

I like that GMS

[frosty gate]

I didn't mean Radiance

[trail wagon]

well

ahahhahaha I didn't finish it

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t see a physical sun. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist but we don’t know if it does

[trail wagon]

I like that GMS' cacoon looks like Moon

What are we gonna fight the Moon?

[sterile jacinth]

The games parallel and contrast each other pretty well I think

[terse warren]

i mean it's either the Citadels when Weavers were there or after Weavers died but 99% likely it's during Weaver reign

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I think that too

[terse warren]

except act 3 that's just hollow knight but again

[trail wagon]

But it completely chances what we think about GMS

[sterile jacinth]

I’ve heard the theory that her rage was too much for the other weavers

[neat scroll]

Hello Lore Masters. With what lorecwill you bless this humble peasant today?

[trail wagon]

sealed siblings is the true ending

[sterile jacinth]

Trueee

And Hornet is void and also the roaring knight

[trail wagon]

and Silksong cannon ending is the cursed one

[terse warren]

the weavers were cultivating a cult around their own divinity and first sinner wanted to tell everyone it was a lie so i think i can see why they didn't lke her

[mint stratus]

The real silksong question: How is there so much luscious greenery underground without a lightsource?

[sterile jacinth]

That lie was the one gms perpetuated. Not necessarily the weavers themselves

[neat scroll]

I have a lore question. Does thd hk world has a day/night cycle?

[sterile jacinth]

Powerful bugs

[lilac hedge]

Maybe

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I thought that too, BUT I don't really feel like the Weavers were actually to communicating with ordinary bugs

[frosty gate]

This whole dilemma would be better if we know how she found out

[trail wagon]

I mean doesn't it happen irl too?

[terse warren]

the weavers very much perpetuated it, seeing as every bug in the citadel thought of them as holy and worshipped them. GMS didn't really perpetuate anything, she just told it to the Weavers and for all we know didn't even mean it as a lie in bad faith

[mint stratus]

Oh totally I’m not saying it’s impossible I just wanted to hear ideas from y’all before I went down a botanist rabbit hole

[lilac hedge]

Idk maybe theres just underground roots

[terse warren]

they were though, nameless town

[sterile jacinth]

While they did perpetuate it first sinner was angry because gms lied. Not the weavers. She was angry that gms lied to her daughters

[mint stratus]

I’m more thinking about the plants remaining green without sun to photosynthesis

[trail wagon]

WHAT IF these are Fayforn eggs?

[sterile jacinth]

Might just be in game logic

[terse warren]

that's not what im arguing against? im saying she wanted to tell everyone it was a lie, which was inconvenient to the other weavers

[trail wagon]

I mean directly

[frosty gate]

Oh yeah I forgot to say, Mask Makers are probably fucking insane while wearing their masks

[trail wagon]

Probably it weren't the Weavers just coming out and talking to the crown

[sterile jacinth]

I think she told the other weavers it was a lie. Not the common bug. I think she was the first to figure out they weren’t really divine.

[mint stratus]

They look like fossils, remind me a bit of the flea caravan bugs

[silk dirge]

maybe insane enough to figure out some of the map anomalies

[frosty gate]

Whatever the hell they're doing, they have something weird behind

[trail wagon]

Yeah that too

[sterile jacinth]

If she is Atla then it’s a possibility she led the weaver revolution

[trail wagon]

That's for sure

[silk dirge]

so like yeah now weve identified theres hunters nest rooms in the august 2025 map that were cut WHY ARE THEY THERE THATS LIKE PRE 2021???

[trail wagon]

Yeah

[mint stratus]

Though the idea is super cool!! I can look around the mountain later for any evidence of stuff like that

[trail wagon]

It's also very possible that she was captured by GMS

I think it's a better theory tbh

[silk dirge]

im getting dlc baited so hard

[terse warren]

"The weaving ones beckon...
Sweet promises whispered...
From depths below...
Friends seduced...
Now only the wind..."

I mean even then this is a pretty direct interaction

[trail wagon]

It just feels better to me personally

[sterile jacinth]

Problem with that is that the other weavers didn’t free their sister

[terse warren]

they're still the ones that imprisoned her so it doesn't make much sense lol

[mint stratus]

Did they know she was there though?

[terse warren]

it isn't possible at all because the Slab wasn't a thing under GMS, neither was the whole Citadel

[trail wagon]

Well, no necessarily, I don't think it necessarily means the Weavers would just talk to random bugs, again. Politicians in real life make promises too, but they don't talk directly to you, right?

[sterile jacinth]

I think the other weavers imprisoned her because her rage threatens to destabilize their carefully thought out system

[terse warren]

they give speeches? that's pretty direct

[trail wagon]

They fled, it's pretty clear. There were some Weavers who left and then some who stayed

[frosty gate]

There's a damn entry on her capture

[sterile jacinth]

Not right away. They built the weavenests and established the citadel

[trail wagon]

It is now though

[mint stratus]

I meant the weavers, she’s in a weird place in the slab

[terse warren]

i guess? her rage would kinda just bring her to tell other bugs about it

[terse warren]

First Sinner was not abducted during the Haunting

[trail wagon]

Yes, the Citadel was BUILT by the Weavers to keep GMS asleep, but NOW they're all gone, so GMS is controlling the Citadel now. She might've captured the FS after whe took over

[trail wagon]

How do you know?

[terse warren]

because otherwise GMS would've absorbed FS like she clearly planned to do with the other weavers

and also because FS is a mummy

[sterile jacinth]

It could be part of the reason. I think the weavers imprisoned her after already lulling gms to sleep because she was unpredictable and angry

[terse warren]

and the haunting is relatively recent

[frosty gate]

Her cage is locked by 4 runes

[terse warren]

well yes it was definitely after

[trail wagon]

I mean it depends on how you call that, you may call it direct, okay

[mint stratus]

Ah fair

[trail wagon]

Yes

So

That's how I see it

[sterile jacinth]

If gms imprisoned her why wouldn’t her sisters free her once gms was asleep?

[frosty gate]

Weavenest came first, second came the Citadel

[sterile jacinth]

I disagree

There’s some needolin dialogue in one of the weavenests that talks about keeping her asleep and looking for a permanent solution

I think they were built after as redundancies because they knew eventually their current plan would fail and she would wake

[trail wagon]

1. The Weavers took over and put GMS to sleep
2. They built the Citadel to keep her asleep
3. They started to lose their powers and it became harder to keep GMS asleep
4. They started building Weavenests to hide from GMS and were trying to come up with a plan to keep her asleep or kill her
5. They failed and some decided to leave, some decided to stay
6. GMS finally took over and ordered all Weavers captures and strung to service or killed
7. GMS captures the FS

[sterile jacinth]

Last?? I doubt that

[trail wagon]

Or maybe that, yeah

[frosty gate]

I don't see how that proves Weavenest came with the citadel

[sterile jacinth]

With?

[trail wagon]

They might've built them before they took over, and continued to use them

[sterile jacinth]

That’s true that could be the case

[frosty gate]

I don't understand what you disagree with

[trail wagon]

Weavenests are clearly designed to hide from GMS

[sterile jacinth]

I think the weavenests were built after the citadel

[trail wagon]

So at the time when they were built she had enough power to threaten the Weavers

[sterile jacinth]

Or they feared what would happen if she did sense them

[trail wagon]

It was either before they took over, or after, when they started to lose their powers

[frosty gate]

"This low, her gaze escaped.
Prepare, sisters. Weave hope anew.
That we might break free this accursed web born of our naive foundation."

[trail wagon]

In weavenest Atla it's said specifically, that "her gaze can't reach this low"

[trail wagon]

or that, I didn't quote it directly

[frosty gate]

This is very specifically written while GMS is awake

[trail wagon]

Also, it seems like THEY build the web, and GMS took over it

So basically

[sterile jacinth]

I still think this can apply while she was asleep. They were obviously terrified of her even while she was asleep. They wouldn’t have set up so many traps and plans otherwise

[trail wagon]

The Weavers came up with the way to control ordinary bugs and make them serve the Citadel forever, and GMS just took over this system and used it for her own will

Basically, the Weavers created the system for GMS to use against them later

It's also suggested by Mask Maker's dialogue "it was a yoke, not a crown"

[sterile jacinth]

I mean their citadel did fail and become the epicenter of the haunting

[trail wagon]

I think they were going to go for the Haunting themselves

That's why there was silk experiments in the Whiteward

[sterile jacinth]

Seriously doubt it. Why wouldn’t they want gms influence all over Pharloom?

[frosty gate]

They set up traps and plans to kill her, deal with her completely

[sterile jacinth]

Those are likely the results of the conductors and the gilded citadel, not the weavers

[trail wagon]

Although it's not clear if they started conducting them after the Weavers left or when they were still around

[trail wagon]

Yeah, we don't know for sure

[trail wagon]

That's also why they went to the Abyss and studied the void

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t but I think the weavers would be smart enough to not inject their god mothers silk into other bugs

Say what you will about weavers they aren’t stupid

[trail wagon]

You're prolly somewhat right, but still, I'm not sure they would necessarily know it's her silk

[safe dock]

so do y'all think the weavers locked FS up after she told them they weren't divine, so no one would find out they weren't who they said they were?

[trail wagon]

because they procude silk themselves too

[sterile jacinth]

The giant cocoon of her silk? Why wouldn’t they

[frosty gate]

Different groups of Weavers thought of different ways to deal with the issue at hand

[trail wagon]

I think the FS is Atla, and she was one of the revolution leaders, and then, when the Weavers lost their power, most fled, but Atla stayed in Pharloom as the leader of her movement, and that's why GMS locked her up

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe but there is the issue of them not freeing her once they realized she was telling the truth. I think she led the revolution and her anger and unpredictability caused the other weavers to imprison her

[frosty gate]

Yes

[safe dock]

i see
hard to know exactly then

[trail wagon]

Yeah, why would injecting silk necessarily give GMS more power? They could control the bugs themselves using their silk too

[trail wagon]

I think it would be slightly weird

[safe dock]

but idk if it was GMS who locked her because it looks like the Weavers are the ones who can do runes (i can be wrong tho)

[sterile jacinth]

Injecting grand mother silks silk into the shells of other bugs? Their god mother who now they know literally elevated them from common bugs? Yeah I don’t think they’d do that lol

[trail wagon]

Because the point of the revolt was that GMS LIED to the Weavers

Why would they lock their leader up afterwards?

[sterile jacinth]

Her anger was too much I think

[trail wagon]

It's also said that the Weavers long for power, so I don't think the FS/Atla wouldn't want to become one of the rulers

[safe dock]

and her chains were protected by runes

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think gms needs runes she’s a god

[trail wagon]

I don't thing it's really an evidence, because GMS did capture some Weavers to serve her

[trail wagon]

Widow could make them ig

[safe dock]

i mean maybe she was a threat to the lie the weavers wanted to maintain (that they were divine)

[trail wagon]

Fair tbh

I mean I kinda see why it doesn't make too much sense either, because GMS could've just killed the FS

Why would she lock her up

[sterile jacinth]

That could definitely be the case. I honestly think she was too unpredictable and angry and the other weavers weren’t very fond of that

[frosty gate]

I'm sorry but that's a very lame excuse 😭

[safe dock]

do we have any evidence that it was GMS who ordered the captures? genuine question cause i dont remember seeing anything saying who was the one ordering it

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I see that, but still, it feels kinda off to me. As far as I understood, the point of the revolt was to punish GMS for HER lies, it doesn't necessarily mean they would want to tell the truth to the rest of the bugs

[safe dock]

true

[frosty gate]

It was GMS using someone in the Citadel

[sterile jacinth]

:P I think it works the best with the information we have. If they did imprison her cause she lied why didn’t they free her once they realized she was telling the truth?

[trail wagon]

I mean she wasn't captured by GMS before the Citadel for sure

[sterile jacinth]

It does kinda clash with the “apostate” title…

[frosty gate]

What? Who lied?

[trail wagon]

Again, the Citadel was built BY the Weavers

To keep GMS asleep

[safe dock]

yeah, that's true as well
for me it's clear that the weavers, despite knowing they weren't divine, wanted to continue being considered powerful and being praised by the other bugs.
i interpreted them putting GMS to sleep in an act of desperation that she would tell the bugs the truth

[sterile jacinth]

“Lied” I mean the first sinner “lying” about their divinity

[trail wagon]

There was no Slab before the Citadel

[frosty gate]

Oh you are absolutely misinterpreting what we're saying

[sterile jacinth]

I think the slab was built around her

[sterile jacinth]

Ah ok

[trail wagon]

Do you mean the FS?

[frosty gate]

You have it backwards

[sterile jacinth]

Could you rephrase it then

[safe dock]

nope, i mean GMS
i think they didn't want to "punish" her for lying, they just wanted to be the ones in control

[sterile jacinth]

Grand mother silk was controlling and refused to give them agency. That along with her lie of divinity is most likely why they revolted

[frosty gate]

GMS lied, FS finds the truth, says the truth, Weavers get mad, not because she's lying but because she knows that truth goes against the entire dogma of "Weavers are divine please worship us" that the citadel built up

[trail wagon]

Nobody who knows anything about the Weavers in the game says anything negative about GMS btw

[trail wagon]

Oh, perhaps

I mean

The FS's dialogue says "OUR rage"

She is raging against GMS, not other Weavers

[sterile jacinth]

If they did imprison her then why didn’t they free her once they actually lulled gms to sleep

[trail wagon]

And she doesn't seem to go against the grain

[frosty gate]

Because this happened after GMS was lured

[trail wagon]

They didn't imprison her before that

that is impossible

FS was not imprisoned before GMS was put to sleep

It's an objective fact, because there was no Slab before that

[sterile jacinth]

I know

[safe dock]

hmmm it makes sense

[sterile jacinth]

I think the slab was built after but I still agree she was imprisoned after gms

[terse warren]

this is objectively correct

[trail wagon]

no actually

not all weavenests were before the Citadel

Objectively

[frosty gate]

Spend enough time in this channel and you end up agreeing with Star and Metal

[sterile jacinth]

Objectively is without a doubt. There are definitely some doubts

[trail wagon]

Objectively is when it's a fact

[trail wagon]

Who is star?

Just to clarify

don't cry, I'm new here

I've talked to metal

[sterile jacinth]

Someone I find disagreeable :P

[terse warren]

They built the Weavenests far away so that GMS wouldn't see them scheming

now call me crazy but I don't think they'd need to do that if she was asleep

[terse warren]

Star is most often correct

[trail wagon]

They have fabulous theories

[terse warren]

im crying for you man

poor soul

[sterile jacinth]

They knew she’d wake up eventually

[sterile jacinth]

Ok hard disagree with that

[trail wagon]

Wait

No

They were losing control over the situation over time

It's said directly

And eventually they had to flee

[spark valve]

That is in fact the point of the weavenests and no they didn’t eventually have to flee

[sterile jacinth]

They knew their plan would eventually fail so they created a ton of redundancies and eventually fled

[spark valve]

The fleeing was early on not all of them left

[trail wagon]

There's a map of ways leading away from Pharloom, which they needed to escape

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think it was early

[trail wagon]

What are you talking about.. 😭

[spark valve]

That was before the citadel

[trail wagon]

They did flee

[terse warren]

??? Where is this stated???

[trail wagon]

What are you talking about

[spark valve]

The weavers in Pharloom died out explicitly believing the citadel would hold forever

‘Never to cease, never to silence’

[trail wagon]

Some of them did, some stayed, but that's after they've tried everything

[sterile jacinth]

Context clues. The whole citadel being established, the weavenests, their various experiments, hornet

[trail wagon]

SOME did

[spark valve]

Trying everything was before the citadel, the citadel itself a product of one thing they tried

[sterile jacinth]

Well that’s their religious propaganda. I feel like they knew it would fail

[trail wagon]

What no

[safe dock]

i think it was early in development of the citadel, no?

[trail wagon]

It's clearly said they started to LOSE power

[trail wagon]

And that's why they left

[spark valve]

There’s literally a prototype songshrine in atla

They lost power and died out

[trail wagon]

So what?

[spark valve]

But the citadel was still working

[terse warren]

The Citadel was made to keep GMS asleep, not because she'd wake up eventually idk what you're on, the experiments and the Weavenests are before Citadel, and Hornet was raised by Weavers that had escaped Pharloom, which happened before the Citadel as well

[trail wagon]

Because they passed their "burden"

[spark valve]

So it… predates the songshrines

[trail wagon]

and now the conductors are in charge

[trail wagon]

Yes... because they built them...

[terse warren]

In that dialogue they are actually talking to each other, not making propaganda

[trail wagon]

Why do you think they escaped before the Citadel though?

[spark valve]

They were trying to escape her

GMS

[trail wagon]

Yes

[sterile jacinth]

The weavers fled post citadel creation. All of their experiments were redundancies in case the citadel failed. They probably knew how fruitless it was to try to contain a god. Seeing as they fled and some stayed behind to help a weaverkin gain power, I’d say they weren’t exactly confident in their plan

[spark valve]

Once citadel built
GMS eep

[trail wagon]

Because they couldn't keep her asleep any longer

[spark valve]

Citation needed

[terse warren]

this is all baseless speculation

[trail wagon]

They put her to sleep, and then lost control

[sterile jacinth]

It is not

[spark valve]

They explicitly thought she would always be asleep because the conductors would keep the song going

[terse warren]

some of them, rather than putting her asleep to rule, preffered changing neighbourhoods

[sterile jacinth]

That was the hope

[spark valve]

That is the burden being passed keeping her asleep is the burden

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think they genuinely thought it would last forever or they wouldn’t have fled

[terse warren]

the experiments are specifically before the citadel i don't know what you're on

[trail wagon]

Looking

[sterile jacinth]

They are not

[terse warren]

unless the ones that fled were a separate group that fled before

[sterile jacinth]

I doubt it

[spark valve]

They passed on the burden of keeping GMS asleep and believed the simple bugs would keep it going forever

[trail wagon]

Yeah, the burden was passed AFTER they built the Citadel

[trail wagon]

Otherwise there would be nothing to pass

[sterile jacinth]

They hoped they would. I don’t think they would have set up such an elaborate series of experiments and traps if they truly believed it

[terse warren]

Ah yes, now that I've successfully contained a god, I will run these experiments on how to contain a god, because I clearly don't know how to

[trail wagon]

Where is a map with all of the lore tablets?

I lost it

[sterile jacinth]

*in case the god wakes up because that’s probably going to happen eventually and we do not want to see what happens to us when she does

[trail wagon]

It was somewhere online, can't find it

[trail wagon]

That's how I thought it was too

[terse warren]

It literally is stated nowhere that they think GMS will wake up

[spark valve]

They didn’t flee after passing the burden they died out

[spark valve]

What is stated is the exact opposite

[trail wagon]

Like they built the Citadel to keep her asleep, then figured out it doesn't really work the way they planned, and then escaped

[sterile jacinth]

Exactly

[spark valve]

They didn’t figure that out

[terse warren]

I want you to find a single sentence in which they say even tangentially that GMS will wake up

[spark valve]

You’re just making that up it’s explicitly not the case

[terse warren]

So all the Weavers that stayed there are just morons???

[sterile jacinth]

I would be a little nervous about containing my angry vengeful god mother and worry that all of my planning wouldn’t be enough

[trail wagon]

They said they're losing their power, and also they passed the burden to NOT work it out themselves

[trail wagon]

Kinda hahaha

[sterile jacinth]

They stayed behind to help another weaverkin hopefully get rid of gms once and for all (the mummified ones at least)

[terse warren]

the plan worked very well and the Weavers percieved themselves as divinity I don't think they had such low self-esteem as to believe their plan wouldn't last

[spark valve]

No they say they passed on the burden for the conductors to continue the song forever which is what’s keeping her asleep

[sterile jacinth]

Well it worked for a time. It did fail. And there are definitely redundancies. I don’t think they’re that arrogant

[trail wagon]

It's not said direclty, but they basically handed the Citadel over to Conductors, so they would be responsible for her awaking when it happens, and they wouldn't have to deal with it, so it implies they did know she will

[terse warren]

everything you said after "conductors" is something you made up

[spark valve]

That’s not why they handed it over they say why they handed it over

They handed it over so they would KEEP PLAYING THE SONG

[trail wagon]

Why?

[terse warren]

yeah, way after they died out?

[frosty gate]

In the most disagreeable way

[fathom hill]

where do these people even come from

mitosis?

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think they thought they were going to die out lol. I think they were most worried about their vengeful mother waking up

[spark valve]

There’s a reason the conductors have the whole thing about eternally playing the magic songs

[terse warren]

I never said she was good at exposing her point

[trail wagon]

Well yeah, because they know GMS will wake up

Literally at the beginning of the game there's a poem by one of the Conductors

[spark valve]

No they don’t

[trail wagon]

Talking about her waking up and that her rage will be great

[sterile jacinth]

While I agree conductors ≠ weavers

[trail wagon]

fym they don't 😭

[frosty gate]

Fair

[dry bridge]

we don't know when this was written, it could've been well after the weavers left

[tepid mountain]

Yeah, that’s the conductors. Not the weavers.

[spark valve]

The conductors eventually figured it out when it started fucking happening lmao the weavers didn’t

[terse warren]

the point is that for a while after they died out there was no sign that GMS would wake up, so why would they assume that?

[sterile jacinth]

Well their plan did fail

[foggy fractal]

no, we're all actually void constructs made by Pale King

[terse warren]

by the Conductor Romino

[frosty gate]

After who knows how long

[trail wagon]

Yeah, I'm talking about the conductors

[fathom hill]

curious

[trail wagon]

that's what I said

[sterile jacinth]

I think it’s not unreasonable to assume the thing they feared most was their mother waking up

Which is why there’s so many things trying to prevent that from happening

[trail wagon]

And which is why some left

[sterile jacinth]

Conductor Romino likely came after the weavers fled

[spark valve]

The weavers explicitly believed the citadel would never fall silent and therefore that GMS would never wake this is explicit in the game and it doesn’t matter if you don’t like it

[trail wagon]

The Weavers in Hallownest also though Hornet would overthrough GMS

It's pretty clearly implied I think

[sterile jacinth]

Sounds more like hope to me. They hoped it would never fail but I don’t think they genuinely never thought it would fail

[spark valve]

No they didn’t

[trail wagon]

Why do you think they believed that?

I thought that's what they want the Conductors to believe in

[spark valve]

Ballador rune harp which says the citadel would never cease or silence

[sterile jacinth]

Yes. Red memory. The weavers talk to her and Herrah tells her not to listen

[spark valve]

Which is written to other weavers not conductors

[trail wagon]

No

[frosty gate]

They expected her to do something

[trail wagon]

It doesn't say the SONG would not be silenced

the PAIN would not be silenced

[sterile jacinth]

“If we don’t stop working this nuclear reactor we will die”

You gotta be prepared if things go wrong

[spark valve]

The burden is the song

[trail wagon]

They will bear the BURDEN, never to cease

[spark valve]

Which is the burden of keeping the song playing

[terse warren]

the Burden is Playing the Song

[terse warren]

yeah the way to keep the rector working is playing the song

which

[sterile jacinth]

Yea exactly lol

[terse warren]

they got the conductors to do

so they were not worried at all

[trail wagon]

I mean idk

I see the direct opposite

[terse warren]

how

[trail wagon]

that they actually WERE worried, therefore they handed it over

[sterile jacinth]

Will the reactor work forever? Boy I sure hope so. Is it likely that sometime in the future it will fail? Probably. We should set up some redundancies in case that scenario happens

[trail wagon]

Because they don't wanna deal with it themselves

[terse warren]

you're just making assumptions again

[safe dock]

do we know if other weavers could have been taken to the slab?

[sterile jacinth]

I am not :/

I’m comparing the two

[spark valve]

But that’s the opposite of what the text says

[terse warren]

except one of them isn't a nuclear reactor

[trail wagon]

Not really

[sterile jacinth]

They didn’t flee because they had full confidence in the citadel working forever

[trail wagon]

Where does it say the opposite?

[sterile jacinth]

It’s a metaphor

[terse warren]

they fled before the citadel

[trail wagon]

How do you know?

[sterile jacinth]

Definitely not

[spark valve]

Ballador rune harp where it says they’ll never cease

[terse warren]

yeah metaphors aren't famous in scientific fields of study

[terse warren]

because they wouldn't need a weavenest if she was currently asleep?

[trail wagon]

omgggg

I already explained it

[sterile jacinth]

I’m illustrating a comparison. It’s not perfect. I’m likening the citadel to the reactor and gms to the possible disaster it holds back

[trail wagon]

They explicitly say their powers are waning

[terse warren]

???

where

[trail wagon]

In the Weavest Mulgrin

[spark valve]

Hey isn’t it funny how the only rune harp that definitely comes after citadel was built isn’t in the hideaway from GMS

[trail wagon]

I can't find the lore tablet

That's why they're worried they won't be able to keep GMS asleep

[spark valve]

It says their powers WILL wane that’s not the same lmao

[terse warren]

most peculiar

[trail wagon]

There was a map with all lore tablets

[spark valve]

And no they aren’t worried about that they’re explicitly confident she’ll be asleep forever even after they fade away and die out in Pharloom

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think they’re as confident as you think. They’re arrogant yes but they’re not stupid

[frosty gate]

You can find them in the Wiki

[sterile jacinth]

If they were so confident the citadel would work forever they wouldn’t have fled

[terse warren]

except they clearly are if they stayed behind despite knowing gms would wake up

[frosty gate]

Different group of Weavers

[terse warren]

but we've been saying it happened before

[sterile jacinth]

Only some did and as another redundancy for helping another weaverkin hopefully get rid of gms

[terse warren]

presenting evidence for it

[trail wagon]

We need a DLC our brains are melting

[terse warren]

and your response to that was nuh uh

[terse warren]

they really aren't

[foggy fractal]

so are our brains freezing ?

[spark valve]

It’s not that complicated actually

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t really think so

[trail wagon]

can you prove the weavers left before the Citadel?

[frosty gate]

Why not?

[trail wagon]

I don't think I can prove they did it afterwards though ahahahah

[terse warren]

Because they wouldn't have needed Weavenests otherwise

[spark valve]

She has

[terse warren]

there's nothing to hide from a sleeping person

[sterile jacinth]

I think they were all one group. Some decided to stay behind to hopefully get another generation to get rid of gms while all the others fled once they got the citadel working. I don’t think there’s any evidence they fled beforehand

[trail wagon]

Unless they wake up

[spark valve]

Which they explicitly believed she wouldn’t do

[sterile jacinth]

Gms has some kind of sense and powers even while asleep

[trail wagon]

I don't think there's enough evidence to say that

[spark valve]

The simple bugs would bear the burden full never to cease never to falter

[frosty gate]

Weavenest's really make it seem different from that

[trail wagon]

You evidence was that they say "never to cease"

[sterile jacinth]

That was certainly the plan

[terse warren]

That and also GMS clearly didn't need to look at their escape routes to find them lol

[trail wagon]

It might mean they will SUFFER eternally, not that they will DO the action

[spark valve]

No

[sterile jacinth]

I think they fled in different directions. I also think they built multiple in case one were to fall. Or maybe they served different purposes

[spark valve]

It doesn’t mean that hollow knight fans cannot read

[trail wagon]

why no

[terse warren]

His evidence was that they literally say outright that it will never fail lol

[foggy fractal]

erm actually this is the line, not never to falter, but never to silence 🤓

Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

[spark valve]

Gee I wonder if silencing applies to the method of keeping GMS asleep

[sterile jacinth]

They’re dumping the responsibility. That doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t think the bugs will fail

[spark valve]

gee this is so ambiguous and hard to understand what it’s referring to

[trail wagon]

It doesn't say "never fail", it says "never to cease", which might indicate they want the regular bugs to suffer instead of themselves

[sterile jacinth]

“Your problem now bye”

[terse warren]

but it's an assumption you're making with no basis

[silk dirge]

there is the line tho "we shall die and wait that one day one of silken strength will weave us free" or something like that

[spark valve]

It says never to silence

[spark valve]

They know there are weavers who left before shit got crazy

[trail wagon]

Yes, that's how I thought

[terse warren]

it says never to cease never to silence implying the song will continue forever implying gms will never wake up

[foggy fractal]

yeah, in full:

Last words of the Weavers.

"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

[sterile jacinth]

All the experiments they did? All the weapons they made? Eva? All the children? They were definitely worried

[terse warren]

also they had slaves i don't think they really care that someone else has to "carry their burdens"

[sterile jacinth]

Thank you. This doesn’t portray confidence to me. Rather desperation

[silk dirge]

what did they mean by "weave us free" is the question

that sounds like they wanted someone to kill gms or some shit

[terse warren]

"All the children"?????

And everything else happened before the Citadel we've went over this

[spark valve]

They’re not free of the system to keep her bound even in death

[trail wagon]

Why no basis? That's how I always interpreted that

[trail wagon]

Yes, that too

[sterile jacinth]

And I don’t agree with you. Not agreeing with you does not mean in stupid

[terse warren]

because we've provided evidence for how that's not the case and you just refusing to aknowledge it properly

[terse warren]

but i literally provided evidence for why it happened before and you're just ingoring it

[sterile jacinth]

We’ve presented counter claims

[terse warren]

also, Ad Hominem, i've never called you stupid

[terse warren]

which we've debunked

[sterile jacinth]

I am not. I’m considering the evidence and choosing what I believe in based on the evidence.

[silk dirge]

i always interpreted it weavers wanted hornet to enact the weaver queen ending but idk if thats whats being argued about here

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t agree with your interpretation

[foggy fractal]

a silk song perhaps

[terse warren]

you clearly are picking and choosing which evidence to consider and which evidence to ignore

[trail wagon]

I said that too

[spark valve]

The ones in Pharloom were hoping it would happen, ones in Hallownest not so much

[terse warren]

this is like if you were ignoring a full on number in a complex math equation

[trail wagon]

What is being argued about is whether some Weavers left BEFORE the Citadel, or AFTER they realized they can't keep GMS asleep

[sterile jacinth]

:/ I’m choosing what to believe based on the evidence I was presented

[mint stratus]

Do y’all think a weaver can shred on the harp?

[silk dirge]

ok yeah that makes sense

[frosty gate]

Hornet def can

[silk dirge]

tho what were the hallownest weavers expecting of hornet then

[sterile jacinth]

I am not :/
Please stop

[sterile jacinth]

Kill/stop gms

[spark valve]

To be their guardian and queen in hallownest

[silk dirge]

ok yeah i could see either of those

[frosty gate]

To be a proper Weaver maybe?

[silk dirge]

this is before the weavers fled i think

[spark valve]

It’s not like they actually took hornet back to Pharloom when they went back

They just said bye and dipped

[sterile jacinth]

Hornet didn’t exist before then lol. She’s the pale kings daughter

[mint stratus]

I also saw it as them feeling they have something to potentially stand up to, or atleast buffer the wyrm if he were to attempt domination

[spark valve]

If hornet was intended as a secret weapon they obviously wouldn’t have gone back without her

[unique canopy]

What did I walk into

[sterile jacinth]

Ah hello

[silk dirge]

i interpreted the weavers dissappearing in that scene as them going like "nope shes more wyrm than weaver we dont want her" /j

[mint stratus]

Did the weavers put gms to sleep with harp skrillex discussion

[spark valve]

They didn’t even leave hornet something guiding her to Pharloom they left a talisman containing a song of farewell

[trail wagon]

Btw, the Weavers left Hallownest and went back to Pharloom when the Weavers were in charge, most likely

[sterile jacinth]

I saw it as “ah rats we can’t manipulate her to do what we want anymore”

[frosty gate]

We don't know that

[spark valve]

Lmao you just admitted that the ones that left didn’t leave as the conductors took over

[trail wagon]

We don't, but it would make more sense

[frosty gate]

I honestly don't think it would

[spark valve]

It’s possible they went back during that time period because the weavers who left Pharloom left before the citadel was built not after weavers lost power

[trail wagon]

I mean why would they go back to a destroyed kingdom

[silk dirge]

its so funny to me the events of hk couldve all happened when the citadel was still made of stone

[frosty gate]

Because they have no idea it's destroyed

[trail wagon]

I mean... Idk both theories have some issues with them I think

[frosty gate]

What they gonna do? Call on their weavephone?

[terse warren]

If they fled after the Citadel because they thought the seal would break they would never come back true lmao

[trail wagon]

Well

Hmmmm

[silk dirge]

in fact to me that seems likely considering how the fuck is green prince still alive and in his prime form by silksong

[mint stratus]

That’s the fun of immortal bugs and a kingdom in stasis :b

[sterile jacinth]

He’s a powerful bug

[trail wagon]

But would they go back if they left before the Citadel?

[unique canopy]

By interpretation was: initial snare was done by the Weavers, Citadel choir was quickly formed to keep her asleep, realized they weren't going to be able to find a permanent solution while they were still in Pharloom, and left the Citadel in the hands of common bugs while they fled to find one, while a few stayed behind and eventually were entombed in the spires. But I'm sure you've been over this before I barged in.

[spark valve]

People seem to think they exchanged one angry god for another willingly

[sterile jacinth]

They didn’t accept pk

[terse warren]

Yes because they wouldn't think an angry god was there waiting for them

[spark valve]

Because shit would be fine? GMS wasn’t great but she was better than infection pre citadel lmao

[trail wagon]

Why? She wasn't kept asleep by anything

[sterile jacinth]

Yes I agree

[spark valve]

Zombie virus or controlling mother

[trail wagon]

The CITADEL was created to keep her asleep

[mint stratus]

[trail wagon]

ehh...

[frosty gate]

Yes, but the Weaver put her to sleep before that

[trail wagon]

So are you saying some left during the revolt?

[frosty gate]

Not really, it was probably during the period she was asleep, we don't know how long they took to build the citadel

[terse warren]

The infection that kills you no matter what seems like a way worse thing than your mother that'll probably punish you but it'll probably be fine

[mint stratus]

They all seemed to be in weavenests making different plans in a desperate attempt for any to work me thinks

[sterile jacinth]

I think it was built beforehand disguised as something innocent or worshipping gms herself but it was intended to be a trap from the beginning

[trail wagon]

That's what I was arguing for too

[spark valve]

They left before she was put to sleep

[silk dirge]

yeah

[terse warren]

it's not like they enslaved their own mother for millennia and forced her to sleep

no reason for her to be too mad

[trail wagon]

The mother that will kill you? Idk kinda hard choice imo

[frosty gate]

I mean, not really enslaved, just locked

[terse warren]

why would they assume she'd kill them

[trail wagon]

Plus GMS is not actually their mother

[terse warren]

exploiting

[sterile jacinth]

Hmm zombie virus or vengeful sleeping mother hmm

[trail wagon]

For revolting?

[sterile jacinth]

In any sense but biological yes she is

[terse warren]

the weavers that ran away didn't know about the revolt

[terse warren]

they didn't know she waws sleeping

[sterile jacinth]

For all intents and purposes she’s their mother as she is laces mother

[sterile jacinth]

The weavers? They literally put her to sleep

[silk dirge]

i mean she basically adopted them so yeah

[trail wagon]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily agree, I wouldn't even call them adopted children, because she used them so they would serve her

[trail wagon]

Why did they run away at all then?

[spark valve]

GMS was a bad mother

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe they wouldn’t consider her their mother but she considers them her children

[trail wagon]

I would argue she wouldn't even classify as a mother, because she just exploited the Weavers

[silk dirge]

i mean if i got adopted by a mom who just wanted to enslave me...

[sterile jacinth]

You can have an adoptive mother who exploits her children

[trail wagon]

Well.. in the same way some abusive sadist may consider their victims their children, idk

[spark valve]

Cindril weavers were smart to just run away before the citadel stuff went down that was the right call

[sterile jacinth]

She considers them her children. She craves motherhood at its very basic. She is a mother

[trail wagon]

I wouldn't say it's a mother, it would be an exploitors playing on your feelings

[spark valve]

Other weavenests should’ve listened but no Atla wanted to be in charge

[mint stratus]

A mother who exploits her children is still a mother, just not a very good one

[trail wagon]

Weeeeeell, again, if she thinks enslaving bugs is making them her children, idk

[sterile jacinth]

I’d say her intentions were to just be a mother but obviously she didn’t do a good job

[spark valve]

(See how it worked out for her too lmao)

[unique canopy]

Entitled exploitive and controlling parents absolutely exist, yes.

[silk dirge]

cindril weavers returning to pharloom wondering why the fuck atla is locked up and one of their weavers got their face ripped off and had stakes implanted in them

[trail wagon]

Anyways, I don't think this is as important

[spark valve]

“Hey guys I know we ran away but shits really bad out there and we’re ready to be good daugh- uuuuuh”

[trail wagon]

It actually seems Widow didn't rebel against GMS

[mint stratus]

Gonna be real I thought your pfp was the bellbeast until just now

[trail wagon]

aahah wow

How did you see it there? lol

I'm trying to imagine it there lol

[mint stratus]

The dot eyes and white mask with the cat ears being horns

[trail wagon]

hahaha I mean I can kinda see it

[mint stratus]

XD I’m not very perceptive I’ll admit

[silk dirge]

my cindril weaver theory is all of them want to hallownest and then tried returning to pharloom, saw how shit was going there and noped out

and then ended up in like

city of steel

[sterile jacinth]

Cindril is in the opposite direction

[spark valve]

That would be funny but their exit map does have multiple routes so they probably split up initially

[trail wagon]

no worries :3

[trail wagon]

Opposite of what?

[mint stratus]

What is cindril again?

[trail wagon]

Far Fields weavenest

[sterile jacinth]

Of hallownest

[mint stratus]

OH, THE SPRINTY PLACE

[spark valve]

Cindril is the weavenest whose solution to gms’s being an asshole was to just leave

[trail wagon]

why?

Oh right

sorry

stupid question

[trail wagon]

Yeaaah, that one

[sterile jacinth]

It goes right while hallownest is left

[trail wagon]

you're right yeah

[tepid mountain]

It’s not like they have to only go in the direction that Cindril is. They had a map there showing all kinds of directions out of Pharloom.

[trail wagon]

they could go in the opposite direction

[mint stratus]

If pharloom sucks, hit da bricks

Real weavers quite

[trail wagon]

they could turn around idk

[sterile jacinth]

I think a majority of weavers fled at once while only some stayed behind willingly to be the mummies

[silk dirge]

i mean assuming hk world is flat

this is possible

[sterile jacinth]

You’re probably right. That is quite the convoluted journey though lol

[silk dirge]

i mean i assume theyre just running wherever in the wastes

[trail wagon]

even if it's round it still works

[trail wagon]

is that a top view?

[silk dirge]

yeah but flat world theory is funny

[silk dirge]

yeah

[spark valve]

They could’ve just used the same path through the wastes and different entrances to the kingdom

[trail wagon]

yeah, it would work in both cases

[sterile jacinth]

Not all in the same group. I think they fled after passing the torch of maintaining the song and citadel to common bugs