sk-lore

[vestal swan]

They moved in and took over when the opportunity arose (no more weavers and nyleth is taking a nap)

[sterile jacinth]

Yea

[vestal swan]

It suggested by sister splinters dialogue and journal I think

[frosty gate]

Because the body died, but the Heart was alive

[olive quartz]

hmm the wiki states this explicitly but is not sourced

At some point after Nyleth's demise, Sister Splinter, her sisters, and the Splinters' kin conquered Shellwood, rendering it immensely hostile

[sterile jacinth]

Splinters are aggressive and Nyleth the wouldn’t be too fond of that

[ornate pier]

We know they conquered it, but nowhere does it say they moved in

[frosty gate]

That seems like speculation if there's no source

[ornate pier]

Afaik

[olive quartz]

This land is ours, now!
By our claws, none but us now!

[ornate pier]

Yeah and this doesn't suggest they came from somewhere else

[olive quartz]

yeah it is unclear if they moved in or simply took over from within

[silk dirge]

i mean if they moved in where did they come from then

[lethal burrow]

if we are doing the Toucher theory then which pale being "Touched" the pale king then?

[ornate pier]

I lean towards within, due to that 1 nyleth attack

[sterile jacinth]

There’s a lot of characters with unclear origins

[silk dirge]

true

[vestal swan]

I think it would be a little weird for them to cohabitate with the forest controlled by a another being while pretending to be plants, nyleth would let travelers through but letting another hostile group live there seems backwards

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah

[frigid belfry]

game awards site is down lmao

[olive quartz]

i mean the pollenicas pretend to be plants and are exceptionally in tune with the forest

[frigid belfry]

how does hornet being void affect this?

[ornate pier]

I feel like they couldge just been chill while nyleth was around

[whole holly]

PK is pale being himself, he doesn’t need to be touched by one, Pale being and Paletouched are different, PL is pale being not paletouched

[ornate pier]

And kind of went mad with power when the power was up for grabs

[olive quartz]

yall pale stag is explicitly in game a myth

[sterile jacinth]

It makes her the roaring knight

[vestal swan]

Yeah but those seem to come from nyleth? The splinters don't seem related

[ornate pier]

Pale stag as WE SEE IT is a myth, that's for sure almost

[olive quartz]

how would they come from nyleth if they're bugs?

[ornate pier]

The phacia is stated to be a bug

[frosty gate]

It is sadly not explicit, but it's heavily implied

Gay Prince really sucks as an informant

[ornate pier]

And their dialogue relates to nyleth, methinks

[olive quartz]

'myth made real in memory. did it ever truly exist as i have seen it?'

[sterile jacinth]

His memory is probably pretty foggy with pale stag

[frigid belfry]

cant believe papyrus was void

[lethal burrow]

white lady is imo a pale version of whatever greyroot is

[ornate pier]

I feel like what actually happened is they just hunted like. An albino or larger than average stag

That lined up with the myth

[frosty gate]

"Did it ever truly exist?" Hornet is not sure if this dude really saw a Mythical stag or not

[ornate pier]

It didn't actually have control over nature ofc

[frosty gate]

My bets are on "No the fucking guy is nuts"

[cedar skiff]

i remember the green prince is schizophrenic theory

[vestal swan]

Maybe she's not exactly a plant herself, white lady had eggs and she's a root

[cedar skiff]

inagined both his lover and the pale stag 💔

the exhaust organ fumes got him

[frosty gate]

Who said she was the one egglaying?

[sterile jacinth]

Papyrus and sans are higher beings confirmed

[ornate pier]

It does seem the phacia are surely linked to nyleth despite being stated to be bugs

[sterile jacinth]

Imitation?

[ornate pier]

If nyleth was stated to be like a higher being on the level of unn this would make more sense but alas

[lethal burrow]

why say this? we know there are non-pale wyrms.

how is it any different?

[whole holly]

White Lady is root which makes her not a bug but she was able to create Bug-like children, reproduction is biologically accurate in HK universe

[ornate pier]

Or I guess she just can bring forth plant like bugs that are not actually plants because fuck you.

[vestal swan]

The main difference is these aren't feats of creation like mosskin or moths that were shaped from essence originally, it seems like they are kind of her spawn

[olive quartz]

yeah my point is broadly that 'stag touched pale' is not meant to suggest a distinction between 'pale beings' and 'beings touched pale', just that like. pale beings are held to be divine in this universe, and the green prince claimed that he had hunted an animal with divine favor

[sterile jacinth]

It is a legend

[frosty gate]

Oh yeah I agree, Pale Stag isn't a Pale Being

[vestal swan]

The stag was actually purple they just lied

[ornate pier]

Palestag was js albino

[whole holly]

Pale Being and Paletouched are not stated to be same, and have no connection rather than being Pale, Pale Beings are higher beings that are Pale and Paletouched are maybe bugs blessed by Pale Being, we have no confirmation

[ornate pier]

Actually they painted a random stag white

[olive quartz]

it need not have anything to do with pale beings either

[ornate pier]

So they could be princes

[sterile jacinth]

Gp forgor

[olive quartz]

the fact that it's called a stag is suggestive of artemis' favorite stag

[frosty gate]

I'm telling you, this guy is nuts

[lethal burrow]

pale king and pale stag are both pale versions of a pre-existing creature.

i don't understand this line in the sand

[cedar skiff]

cook

[olive quartz]

i mean, i don't think he's any more nuts than anyone else who has told a story about a mythical animal with divine favor in the past

[ornate pier]

Green prince's entire backstory is actually fake and he imagined all of it

[frosty gate]

I mean yeah but he's overall not right in the head, it's not just the stag

[cedar skiff]

would the be the first time team cherry took from greek mythology in silksong ☝️

[ornate pier]

Pantheons?

Are those even Greek

Idk

[whole holly]

yes but they are not confirmed to be one and same, simple as that, we need more information, we know Pale Beings are higher beings that are pale and pale touched seems to be bugs/regular beings that are pale

[cedar skiff]

i was referring to styx in silksong but the term pantheon is also borrowed from greek mythology

[vestal swan]

You just made me remember one of my crackpot theories, about the names actually having some meaning. Herra being the mother of the weapon making child of a god, hornets real name is Hephaestus

[ornate pier]

Does styx even relate to the river other than his name

[sterile jacinth]

What an interesting god to compare her to

[frosty gate]

No

[olive quartz]

i do think it is intentional that herrah's name is so similar to the greek god of motherhood

[cedar skiff]

yeah, the river is between the greek underworld and world of the living. he gives us silk cocoons

[vestal swan]

He dies in steel soul

[cedar skiff]

silk eaters i mean

for the cocoons

bridging life and death

[frosty gate]

He crossed himself

[ornate pier]

I see

[vestal swan]

I want to think it's intentional but then there's so many names that just don't make sense, unless they're just more obscure and we haven't caught on yet

[olive quartz]

not that it has lore implications mind you, just that it was a deliberate choice

[ornate pier]

Could mean something might be a coincidence

[sterile jacinth]

We might be reaching but they could have pulled inspiration from a ton of sources

[cedar skiff]

the weavenest absolom is also weirdly similar to absolom

[lethal burrow]

i'm going to explain what seems far more likely to me.

using pokémon.

higher beings are like legendarys and pale beings are like shinys.

You can have none legendary shineys (like pale stag)
and you can also have non-shiny legendarys (like unn)

but you have a combination of both which results in a super legendary basically.

[cedar skiff]

the biblical guy who overtook his father as king

[vestal swan]

You do have to cross a "river" to get into his room

[cedar skiff]

which is sorta relevant

[ornate pier]

Absolom led the revolution or some shit idk

[lethal burrow]

I find my version a lot more internally, consistent, and it cuts out a lot of weird stuff that's just sort of assumed

[whole holly]

well, you simplified my point, but that's i guess oversimplification and pretty okay explanation

[vestal swan]

It kind of makes sense but it's just really funny that you called them shiny Pokemon

[ornate pier]

Hmmm

[cedar skiff]

i know team cherry has to come up with a lot of fantasy sounding names with aura but some cases feel intentionally placed

[lethal burrow]

I'm just saying my interpretation of it not trying to simplify your

[sterile jacinth]

I find it funny that MONOmon isn’t the dreamer with one eye

[whole holly]

for clarify we should refer to them are Pale Higher Beings to GMS, PK and WL and Palestag as Pale Regular being, being Pale is different Phenomenon not really comparable to shinies, Pale Higher Beings have connection to soul to some extent

[lethal burrow]

they are monomon not monoeye

[vestal swan]

Except white lady that doesn't do anything

[sterile jacinth]

Yea I just think it’s funny

[vestal swan]

White ladies connection to soul is 30mil eggs

[lethal burrow]

I am saying it's a different phenomenon, but I'm not denying It's related to soul.

[ornate pier]

Monocle

[whole holly]

yes, i know faint connection to soul is still connection to soul, at least in lore comminity

[sterile jacinth]

She’s bound herself so in the past she could definitely have had some connection to soul

But we don’t see it in present

[vestal swan]

I mean she has less connection than an accomplished spellcaster

[whole holly]

it did end up being simpler version still

[lethal burrow]

Not really, your idea of like a dude that goes around touching animals is pretty unrelated to mine I think

[vestal swan]

Her binding is unique yeah but, not really screaming soul ability

[sterile jacinth]

I’m not saying it’s related to soul I’m saying that she definitely could have had a stronger connection to it in the past

She does have some sort of world sense

But that doesn’t necessarily relate to soul

[whole holly]

i know but comparison to shinies simplify it Pale beings have special power makes more sense it is more similar to Gigantimax/Mega phenomenon with consistent color and power

[vestal swan]

Well if it's connected to her children like it seems to be suggested that might be a soul tie

Or it might just be weird family powers

[lethal burrow]

The simplification is more about how they occur as opposed to their powers.

You could use albino as another comparison if ya want, just a rare sort of thing like that.

And besides simplicity helps get a point across

[whole holly]

i was referring to this "we know Pale Beings are higher beings that are pale and pale touched seems to be bugs/regular beings that are pale" which you replied to

[cedar skiff]

higher beings is a fake as fuck word anyway its used for anyone and everything the only relevant term should be pale

[vestal swan]

That doesn't make any sense

[lethal burrow]

yeah, but you think pale touched beings are different from pale beings and our impact to regular creatures that were caressed by a pale being

[sterile jacinth]

Yea we don’t really know lol. She didn’t notice drya was dead and she’s literally right outside her door

[cedar skiff]

higher beings these words are for you alone 💔

[vestal swan]

There's higher beings that aren't pale and a lot of things that are pale that have nothing to do with higher beings

[whole holly]

well, some things end up needing explanation and clarification as a result of simplicity

[vestal swan]

Propaganda sign

[neat scroll]

Sup lore masters

[vestal swan]

The sky

[lethal burrow]

hey

[cedar skiff]

i know

[whole holly]

stag touched pale implies different phenomenon to Paletouched and Pale Higher Beings

[neat scroll]

What interesting lore will you share with this peasant

[cedar skiff]

but whats the point in differentating between pale beings and pale higher beings

[lethal burrow]

also don't call us that a third of us are just shit posters another third just complain all the time and the last third just actually read the stuff in the game

we don't deserve to be called masters of anything 💀

[neat scroll]

I see

[sterile jacinth]

Yooo

[sick olive]

hello

[cedar skiff]

pale stag is just aura naming

[whole holly]

pretty much yea

[lethal burrow]

I think touched pale is just a way of referring to a pale being.

all pale beings are "touched pale"

[sterile jacinth]

A being of legend. Pale beings seem to be associated with power in universe so gp could be misremembering his feat as a lot more impressive than it is

[swift oracle]

Im a proud silksong loremaster i watched like a handful story reviews therefore im a master and need my phd right now

[frosty gate]

Haven't read that word been used since 2018

[whole holly]

says who? do you have substantial evidence for that?

[lethal burrow]

I think between the two interpretations of the sentence it fits best with what we know

[neat scroll]

Oo what sentence

[vestal swan]

Give it 5 years each of us will be confident about at least one subject

[lethal burrow]

green prince talking about the being that is pale, called the palestag

[vestal swan]

[sterile jacinth]

It’s probably a partial half remembered truth distorted by legend

[whole holly]

how so? Stag Touched Pale and Pale Being be district and Team Cherry never misses anything, everything is on purpose i don't think they wanted Paletouched and Pale being to be overlapping category or they would have referred to as such, plus Stag touched Pale is isolated incident and largely not relevant to Pale Being discussion as a whole

[vestal swan]

I'm going to have to stop you right there "team Cherry never misses anything"
There's still a hunter journal mix up in the first game and the unnecessary mention of years, along with things that needed to be changed afterwards along with several grammatical errors

[cedar skiff]

is the pale rosary necklace a pale being lets discuss

[vestal swan]

I mean it said to be made of different materials, one crackhead could have wasted pale ore on it

[neat scroll]

Looking into it I believe pale may refer to a heritage. Pale beings tend to live longer and incorporate dark/white into their designs. Paletouched could possibly mean the stag may have had contact with pale essence but wasn't a pale being itself

[sterile jacinth]

Yea there just people. Not to be put on a pedestal. I will admit they put a lot of attention to detail in their projects

I don’t think pale stag was literally pale. I think that’s exaggerated by Verdanias legend and green prince himself

[whole holly]

well yeah but in way that is specific and relevant to this discussion, it is doubtful that Paletouched and Pale Being are separated categories on accident or they missed it, they largely don't miss anything, at least not this

[sterile jacinth]

Pale is probably associated with divinity and its green prince remembering a legend. Legends distort and that’s probably what happened

[vestal swan]

I think everything with the label pale on it is just because of how it appears and everybody's putting too much weight into the word to begin with

[unique canopy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_stag

[neat scroll]

Furthering this subject how does pale court and dung defender connect to it

[sterile jacinth]

They’re the kings right hand mans

[whole holly]

this is excellent point and applies to Palestag very well

[cedar skiff]

theres nothing to suggest that the rosary necklace has pale ore either its just called that

the pale lake is at least compared to having similar healing properties as silk aka soul so the naming isnt just aurafarming at least

[unique canopy]

Read the folklore section, the Palestag is probably inspired by this imo. A bunch of legends and folklore appeared over the centuries surrounding it, but in reality it was just an albino cloverstag.

[neat scroll]

Let's look at dung defender. He is shows as pale in the days of old but has a normal carapace in hk1. Does that mean he lost hus pale status? He seems to also be long living

[cedar skiff]

but pale is used so loosely

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think they’re actually pale

I think they’re called that because they served a pale being

[whole holly]

but Paletouched has implication it is used as adjective, it is in some way related to Pale Being, i don't think people are putting too much weight on this specifically

[lethal burrow]

in old speech "____ touched" can mean they just have a quality.

[cedar skiff]

can i ask for the full quote that paletoched is from

some people just have ways of speaking

Like how some characters refer to hornet varyingly, including pale one

[neat scroll]

Do any of you know how much time has passed between the spread of the infection and the begginning of hk1? Is it more than the lifetime of a bug in universe?

[whole holly]

it can be explained away by the fact that amount of rosaries was related to bugs social/religious status and holiness though, Pale is derived by actual Pale Being (GMS) having highest religious status , even if she wasn't actually worshiped her Pale being status did influence religion

[cedar skiff]

pale beast, pale it etc

[unique canopy]

Here, the trail of the stag touched pale... We hunted her, felled her, as none before were able...
Proof it became, of our majesty... mark of our divine right...

[cedar skiff]

they didnt know abt gms at all

so it wouldjt make much sense

the regular bugs anyway

[cedar skiff]

i see

[sterile jacinth]

Honestly I think pale in universe is associated with divinity

Like to the characters themselves

[lethal burrow]

eh, moreso soul

[sterile jacinth]

Not from a meta standpoint

[unique canopy]

From an in-universe standpoint, with pale beings making themselves monarchs I can see pale being associated with divinity by the common bugs, yes

[whole holly]

yes, but my point is that in any case it is meaningful distinction to Pale Being, what makes them Paletouched and what Paletouched means is largely speculation, but Fact that Pale Being and Paletouched are different terms used to describe different characters is fact

[sterile jacinth]

Yea that’s what I think

Honestly I think the stag was only described as pale but isn’t really pale as we know it and because it’s associated with prophecy and legend the actual view of the stag was distorted

[lethal burrow]

not really. you might have a case of green prince referred to any other pale being and did so differently. but that is not the case

[whole holly]

that's likely case yeah

[unique canopy]

Okay I feel like I'm missing something, but has the term "paletouched" or "pale touched" actually been used in either game? "The stag touched pale" is literally the only example I can find from the dialogue, and that's distinct wording.

[lethal burrow]

fair ig but idk i think its ment to show pale beings can be non-higher beings too

[lethal burrow]

naw you right

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t doubt that I just don’t think that’s necessarily the case with the stag

[lethal burrow]

eh, i suppose i just wonder at the purpose of making the palestag pale. what is that ment to convey ya know? what is team cherry trying to say?

[sterile jacinth]

Verdania was very connected with prophecy and legend and I think that’s just what happened to pale stag

[whole holly]

yes really , Green Prince referring to other Pale Beings wouldn't change much as game has narrative that wouldn't be messed with by character's unique storytelling, and to prove Pale Beings and Paletouched are same categories burden of proof is on you not me

[whole holly]

i got it from community personally , people tend to shorten stuff

[wintry barn]

destruction is their other relevant option

which wouldn’t be divine for most

[lethal burrow]

no? if the sentence is ambiguous both ways but if you really want to call burden of proof then i'd say it falls on you who says there are different entire categories of pale being that are separate from each other.

[sterile jacinth]

Pale seems to be a pretty fuzzy definition even in universe

[whole holly]

there no confirmation that Stag touched Pale and Pale being are overlapping categories, for me to disprove that notion, you need to prove in first place.

[sterile jacinth]

Honestly I think gp dialogue is a little unreliable

His memory of pale stag itself seems to be pretty distorted

I think his view and memory of it is grander than reality

[whole holly]

yeah, if memory is distorted we have even less reliable proof that Pale Being and Stag touched Pale have anything to do with each other

[unique canopy]

That's definitely what Hornet's HJ implies. She's an unreliable narrator in a lot of things, but if there's one thing she can be reasonably trusted on it's whether pale beings actually have had an effect on something.

[sterile jacinth]

Calling something pale I think just translates to calling something divine or related to divinity, even if that isn’t necessarily the case

[whole holly]

which kind of aligns with my point and skepticism

[lethal burrow]

there is no confirmation that these beings called Pale are not the same thing, for me to disprove that notion, you need to prove in first place.

[sterile jacinth]

“Look we took down a god! We’re following the prophecy”

[unique canopy]

I think comparisons to real life folklore and symbolism can be made. In real life, white and pale have been used for divinity, purity and so on. But sometimes some things are just naturally white for no reason, scientifically it's just something that happens to reflect all light visible to humans. So in-universe in HK/SK the common bugs could associate white and pale with divinity or purity or soul or so on and so forth, but in-universe some things are just naturally white for no reason, like a normal cloverstag that happens to be albino.

[cedar skiff]

verdania having its own mythology does well to show how established of a nation it was

[whole holly]

that is flawed logic, i can't prove that they aren't same because nothing proves that they are, currently, burden of proof falls on person stating or connection/correlation and proving it, not one disproving it

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah this is sort of what I’m thinking

Pale is fae confirmed /j

[stray fog]

Are other insects attracted to light too or is it just moths

[whole holly]

i agree

[stray fog]

If they are, that could explain the obsession with Paleness

[sterile jacinth]

That doesn’t necessarily have to be the case

[unique canopy]

A lot of insects use sunlight or moonlight to naturally tell what's up and down, which itself is why moths are "attracted to light." It's more like they're using the biggest source of natural light as a beacon, so artificial light messes with them.

[sterile jacinth]

I think it’s funny when a definition of something in universe is as complex and unreliable as something irl

[stray fog]

I know but to the layman, they're attracted to light

[sterile jacinth]

Really confuse the theorizers

[unique canopy]

That's how you really know it's a good setting

[sterile jacinth]

Lmao radiance

[lethal burrow]

nothing PROVES ether of these but the evidence can go either way. you have to prove the pale stag was touched by a pale being just as much as I would have to prove that it is one, given an ambiguous scenario the default isn't that the thing you think is the one that's the default correct option that must be disproven.

[tepid mountain]

Is there anywhere else in either game where “pale-touched” is even a thing?

[lethal burrow]

The Green Prince calls the pale stag the stag touched pale

Pale touched is just shorthand more or less

[tepid mountain]

Yeah, I was meaning like, anywhere else besides that line.

[lethal burrow]

nope

[tepid mountain]

Cause if not, it really just feels like a quirk of Green Prince’s speech of calling something pale.

[lethal burrow]

oh that's exactly what it is but you know...

[tepid mountain]

Yeah…

[lethal burrow]

Some people

yeah

[tepid mountain]

It would be an interesting expansion of pale being lore stuff, but it doesn’t seem that deep right now.

[sterile jacinth]

Honestly I think in universe the definition of pale is very fuzzy

[fossil ledge]

Pale seems to be an association with soul

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe. It could also be associated with divinity. I honestly think bugs call something pale if they think it’s divine

Or at least divine in nature

Soul could be connected to that because I doubt the average bug knows a lot about silk or soul

[fossil ledge]

Thing is we have examples of divine things not attributed to paleness

[sterile jacinth]

From an outside perspective it does seem divine

Yes but does the average bug know that?

[fossil ledge]

Don't think so, but the average bug doesn't seem to know much about soul, if at all

[frosty gate]

We still on the Pale Stag topic?

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. It’s strange and seems to give powers. It’s not a stretch to call it divine

[sterile jacinth]

Yea. It’s been quiet for awhile tho

[fossil ledge]

As in bugs call things that are divine pale, or?

[lethal burrow]

All the pale things are pale maybe it just means that they're pale

[twin dragon]

Divinity most likely

[lethal burrow]

even if they're not white and glowing?

[sterile jacinth]

I think so. It’s in universe like calling something fae. Not really that clear what is and isn’t

[fossil ledge]

Thing is most creatures that use the term aren't really your average bug

[sterile jacinth]

“Hey this has some powers I don’t understand, it must be from the gods!”

[fossil ledge]

We also know bugs call divine things holy

Or things they think are divine, anyway

[sterile jacinth]

You can have more than one term for a divine being

[fossil ledge]

Of course

[twin dragon]

Pale being is mainly used for pk and gms

[lethal burrow]

according to the god seekers, anything can be a god if you're desperate enough

[twin dragon]

Both of which are coincidentally hbs

my guess: Related to soul

[sterile jacinth]

God seekers are weird lol

[fossil ledge]

Gods as defined by Godseekers are powerful beings that emit a godly resonance they can detect and attune to

[sterile jacinth]

Also pale ore and oil

[lethal burrow]

why is he called the pail king if he looks like a fork?

[fossil ledge]

They simply call them gods cause what they're after these non-higher beings also have, just in much smaller quantities

[twin dragon]

Godseeker lore is uh

complicated

[fossil ledge]

That is what I led with

[mighty parcel]

The exchange rate from Geo to Rosaries appears to be 2 Geo to one Rosary

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think the godseekers are regular bugs

[lethal burrow]

mhm sure

[sterile jacinth]

Especially in their current state of almost only existing in a dream

[lethal burrow]

why do they have different dialogue in God seeker mode it is so weird

[quasi shell]

insane of tc to make bell hermit canonically a pro-lifer

[sterile jacinth]

Pardon

[lethal burrow]

I don't think they should be pardoned for that actually

[fossil ledge]

Cause it takes place after Embrace the Void ending

[lethal burrow]

so was the knight just chilling dying to radiant markoth until it noticed it's sister in the void sea?

[sterile jacinth]

That is funny to imagine

[fossil ledge]

Possibly xD

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe the knight was considered a god in godseeker mode so that’s why they’re there

[fossil ledge]

No, we know the Godseeker's opinion changed based on their dialogue

[sterile jacinth]

😭

[tepid mountain]

God he’s such a dick.

[fossil ledge]

God of Gods! How clear to see. How obvious. That diminutive shell doth barely disguise thine overwhelming strength, thine all-consuming glory!

Shame beyond shame! We failed to percieve such obvious truth. Punish us, o Devourer! Crush us! Rain nail and lash on Our pathetic being. We welcome such divine vengeance!

[sterile jacinth]

Damn

[past cypress]

What does the "moor" part in Greymoor even mean

[past cypress]

Oh crazy I only knew the word from Othello

[rough ingot]

more evidence that the Godseeker doesnt actually recognize void as a source of power until it floods godhome…

[sterile jacinth]

Godseekers are not as smart as they put themselves out to be

[rough ingot]

well, they used enough logic to attune to radiance throuh PV

[dry bridge]

Specifically I think given all the rain and water (and the fact it's rather heavily developed) I think it refers to the third definition in particular

[sterile jacinth]

That rain is silk

[rough ingot]

The godseekers just absolutely forgot about literally the strongest substance, despite pure vessel using void… and they were too single mindedly focusing on the radianc to notice…

[rough ingot]

is it silk?

[sterile jacinth]

Yes

It’s what all the citadel bugs are trying to collect

It’s what killed the moor

[lethal burrow]

Then why does it make splashes when you walk around?

[rough ingot]

makes some more sense

[sterile jacinth]

It does?

[lethal burrow]

yup

[sterile jacinth]

Odd

[rough ingot]

could be wet silk???

[sterile jacinth]

Could be

[rough ingot]

Wait isnt greymoor below bilewater and sinners road?

[sterile jacinth]

I mean that’s what the windmill and the reaper bugs are there to collect

[sterile jacinth]

Some of sinners road. I don’t think bilewater tho

[rough ingot]

like it rains in city of tears cuz of blue lake

[lethal burrow]

totally

[sterile jacinth]

Could be a combination of silk and putrified water

[rough ingot]

yea, which explains the splash

[sterile jacinth]

Eugh what a great place

[rough ingot]

also totally not really muggy and humid

[sterile jacinth]

There’s some water in wisp thicket if I remember right

[rough ingot]

well i totally skipped that place

[sterile jacinth]

London simulator

[rough ingot]

i dont fancy another trip to a frying pan thanks, ive burned the knight too many times in NkG

[sterile jacinth]

It’s also the gray part too

[rough ingot]

Ye i noticed

[sterile jacinth]

The bell is your friend

[rough ingot]

If only the knight had somethibg similar…

and u werent forced to use grimmchild

[lethal burrow]

those don't seem conducive to merging though

[sterile jacinth]

Doesn’t have to merge. Could just be falling at the same time

[rough ingot]

like dust and silk could be falling

[lethal burrow]

So then there is water falling

[rough ingot]

yes

[lethal burrow]

I thought the argument was that it wasn't water, but was in fact silk

[sterile jacinth]

I imagine Hornet gagging the moment she steps foot in graymoor and then entering sinners road for the first time and being like ah I see

[rough ingot]

explains the water everywhere

[sterile jacinth]

Yea I think both putrified water and silk

[rough ingot]

and sinners road has muckmaggot water

[tepid mountain]

If a piece of wet silk falls, the water is going to run off of it onto the ground around it. Or drip off once caught.

[sterile jacinth]

And it breeds muckroaches

[rough ingot]

cuz those things eat silk

how to kill gms, forget the void, toss her into bilehaven

[sterile jacinth]

Imagining her stepping foot in bilewater and being like oh this is worse this is so much worse

[rough ingot]

the reason phantom is in bilewater, is cuz shes silk and silk eater water, and everything eats silk

so she cant escape

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think they eat silk I think they just make Hornet really uncomfortable and unable to concentrate

[cedar skiff]

is there any chance the citadel imprisoned phantom in the exhaust organ and gms just forgor abt her

[rough ingot]

no they slowly devour your silk meter when ur in it

[sterile jacinth]

Yea that could be her just really uncomfortable

[rough ingot]

GMS i think hates phantom

[rough ingot]

and the fact it takes a whole bind to get ridda

[sterile jacinth]

If they were forgotten I think it was a deliberate act on gms part

[lethal burrow]

What about the elevator?

[rough ingot]

i mean, maggot water is gross, good thing we never see lace go there

[cedar skiff]

yeah likely. i was just thinking about how it happened to be that phantom is in exhaust organ

they seems to be stuck there

[rough ingot]

I dont know about that, maybe phantok knew GMS could track her in the cidadel with the endless bugs there

[lethal burrow]

Regardless, I highly doubt it was a grandmother so who put her at the exhaust organ

[cedar skiff]

seeing as they had to lure hornet in to kill them rather than ever leaving on their own volition

it couldnt have been gms who just put them there

[lethal burrow]

it makes no sense

[rough ingot]

well, GMS wouldnt just firget wbout her firstspun

[lethal burrow]

on the subject of phantom and their abandonment: the journal says that Phantom was tasked with the exhaust organ, but this poses the question.... by who? Certainly not grandmother silk who is presumed to be asleep, and even if conscious would surely not like the citadel or care for its structure enough to assign a daughter to the exhaust. no it seems it could only be the Weavers or the conductors, and from there, the reason for phantoms abandonment seems only clear, in one way or another, knowingly or not, she sided with the citadel as opposed to her mother, sided with the very people keeping grandmother silk caged, and for that reason, I can very much see grandmother silk 'abandoning' phantom (in whatever capacity she's able given her circumstances anyways.)

[rough ingot]

where is this from?

[cedar skiff]

i think its likely the citadel used phantom for their air ventilation. and gms did not care to help her and even mightve believed phantom betrayed her

were now like certain the silk siblings were both made while gms was asleep or?

[rough ingot]

idk

the timeline is realky obscure

its like how we dont know the age gap between hornet and knighr… we know knight is older, but when did the pale king seek the dreamers and make a bargan with herrah

[cedar skiff]

i like the idea of gms taking phantom working for the citadel, willingly or even unwillingly, as betrayal

[rough ingot]

unlike, lets say, lace chopping her arm off

[cedar skiff]

it puts laces creation and that silkheart dialogue “one to wish our waking” into nice perspective

[rough ingot]

which silk heart?

if its laces my bro got with out me

[cedar skiff]

i guess child spun mad refers to phantom then

hold on

[rough ingot]

cuz phantom is actually rotting silk

[cedar skiff]

yeah its the lace one

[rough ingot]

Lace started to not like her mom at some point

[rough ingot]

explains why i dont know..

[cedar skiff]

god it still fucks me over that gms refers to herself as a collective we in those silkhearts

[rough ingot]

i mean, GMs tried her hardest to save lace from void, after the arm incident and saving hornet

[twin dragon]

Gms wasnt even around when the exhaust organ existed

[cedar skiff]

wdym

[twin dragon]

She was sealed away

[rough ingot]

monarch talk. Id bet the abyss talks similar and same with the hive minds

[lethal burrow]

me and my brain

[cedar skiff]

well im operating with the idea that the silk siblings were fabricated while gms was asleep

[twin dragon]

It might be because of all the weavers she has binded atp

[rough ingot]

Its not canon then…

[twin dragon]

Yeah and she wouldn't be able to assign shit

[cedar skiff]

im saying the citadel forced phantom to exhaust organ

which gms saw as betrayal

[lethal burrow]

what do you mean it's not Canon? it's talking about the game what are you talking about?

[rough ingot]

haunting… she seems to be able to control some stuff

[cedar skiff]

i think you misunderstood my wording

[twin dragon]

Mb i misread

yeah+

[rough ingot]

canon stuff is either explicitly said or written somewhere in game

[cedar skiff]

its alright it happens

[lethal burrow]

yeah, but like I never claimed that it's not a quote from the game it's a discussion of it

So it's a really weird thing to say

[twin dragon]

Phantom seems to have been discarded before working in the organ

[rough ingot]

theres a lot of crazy stuff

[twin dragon]

Since birth probably

[cedar skiff]

wow that’s harsh

[lethal burrow]

What makes you say that?

[rough ingot]

I also dont think phantom is being supplies with silk,

[twin dragon]

I mean

[rough ingot]

so that means lace can survive without constant silk, allthough her form will decay, hornet can fix that hopefully

[lethal burrow]

There are silk cylinders within the ex exhaust organ

[cedar skiff]

tbh i like this interpretation because it ties the phantom situation together more neatly as opposed to just leaving us assuming gms fucked her up and immediately gave up without much further evidence (although i dont put that past gms at all)

[rough ingot]

weaver artifacts

[rough ingot]

GMs definetly screwed up diplomacy

[cedar skiff]

“Mournful creature tasked alone to expel the Citadel's choking refuse.”

[rough ingot]

and the weavers…

[lethal burrow]

...?

[rough ingot]

GMS screwed a lot of stuff up

[lethal burrow]

They're literally just the same thing that conduction has

[rough ingot]

the silk spools

[lethal burrow]

there are the Citadel spools,

[lethal burrow]

...yes? What makes you think they're weaver artefacts they don't look anything like Weaver stuff.

[cedar skiff]

ari gibsons phantom of the opera oc insert

its amazing they managed to make the reference work this well

[rough ingot]

the secret references

[rough ingot]

the cidadel was presumably made by GMS, then used by the weavers to imprison her, or the weavers made it to imprison GmS

[lethal burrow]

yes, but what's your point?

[rough ingot]

cidadel stuff at some point was run by the weavers

[lethal burrow]

I don't I don't see how that's related to anything

[rough ingot]

this isnt getting anywhere

[tepid mountain]

That doesn’t mean the spools are weaver made.

[lethal burrow]

Well, yeah because I don't understand what you're saying

If you don't explain what you're saying, and I don't understand what you're saying. It's obviously not going to go anywhere.

[cedar skiff]

the citadel is so kind for building a life support tank for phantom

[lethal burrow]

Obviously, if there's no explanation or elaboration, the conversation isn't going to progress

[cedar skiff]

this dialogue still fucks me up 💔

[rough ingot]

eva referenced

[cedar skiff]

🤔 💭

[rough ingot]

it makes me feel so bad for everyone

cuz GMS is a terrible parent, on par with the Pale King’s parenting

[sterile jacinth]

At least thk loved his father

[rough ingot]

cuz pale king was an ok ruler, terrible parent

[sterile jacinth]

He kinda had to be

[rough ingot]

well, the other 4 million really dont

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah lmao

[rough ingot]

and his goals for THK werent that nice first of all

but he liked his child too much

i wish the pale king was still alive so he could see his mistake… also the knight was lucky to not run into nosk on its way out

[sterile jacinth]

I feel like comparing his parenting to gms is a little unfair

[rough ingot]

well

both could care for their kids better

[sterile jacinth]

He didn’t have kids to love

Yeah lmao

[rough ingot]

GMS loves her kids too much, and has too many to care for

[sterile jacinth]

But if he had taken better care of them then things would have been fucked yo more

[rough ingot]

PK could give the rest of the deceased shades some more love

[rough ingot]

Or maybe dont have so many kids…

[sterile jacinth]

Needed to find a vessel that would work…

[rough ingot]

and purity has nothing to do with climbing out of a hole

Lore accurate birthplace is REALLY hard if youve even tried

ability-less birthplace

[sterile jacinth]

Needed to find a strong vessel

[rough ingot]

still. Have fewer kids, pale king…

[sterile jacinth]

He did the best he could with the resources he had

[rough ingot]

he said no cost to great.. and filled a hole with his family’s corpses

he doesnt know what being a dad is

also, why does he need so many buzzsaws, THK is actually too tall to fit through most of everything

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think the buzzsaws were actually physically real. I think white palace more reflects pk own pain

[rough ingot]

its inside a kingsmould, and there is evidence its physical

dying in steel soul in white palace is a “death”

[sterile jacinth]

I think the layout and buzzsaws are a representation of him hiding his mistakes in his own mind

[rough ingot]

And where the “real” white palace went?

also note that the kingsmould had a lot of void connect to it…

[sterile jacinth]

I think he destroyed it

[rough ingot]

When does he move white palace to a dream realm

He basically hid the whole time of the infection

[sterile jacinth]

I think even if he did it’s warped by his own mind

[rough ingot]

and why can we get kingsoul and seal of binding from it, tangible things. Its not like we can yank them out from the dead kingsmould

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think the physical white palace was a big parkour level lol

[rough ingot]

Probably not

[sterile jacinth]

Plus his most painful memory or mistake is hidden behind the literal path of pain

[rough ingot]

and why couldnt he destroy the really creepy baby room

[rough ingot]

the moment the vessel was tainted

[cedar skiff]

id do anything to see them meet tbh

fanartists need to get onto this

[sterile jacinth]

Lace would make fun of them

[rough ingot]

Then get owned

[cedar skiff]

daddy issues vs mommy issues

[rough ingot]

someone silkposted THK VS LL

[sterile jacinth]

Hornet desperately getting between them lol

[rough ingot]

Hornet needs knight for backup lol

PV is probably stronger than hornet in lore

PV deals 2 dmg to knight, and uses void. And no silk

and does hornet ever dodge anything in all of silksong like the spike dive attack?

[sterile jacinth]

Let’s not powerscale lol

[rough ingot]

good point

theres a number of reddit channels for that

[rough ingot]

i love how people try to powerscale knight VS hornet… its the knight that wins guys…

[sterile jacinth]

That one is pretty obvious I think

[rough ingot]

they also said WQ hornet VS SL…

Which is the death of a country

GMS versus void would eventuralky destroy pharloom

[sterile jacinth]

She’s already loosing

[rough ingot]

which she?

[sterile jacinth]

Gms

She’s still alive because she’s keeping her daughter alive

[rough ingot]

yea

i mean Weaver Queen probably is loosing to the void in the first place

also a silkpost that proves my idea..

[sterile jacinth]

Bye Hornet

[limpid summit]

GMS struggles against raw void that isn’t controlled directly by TK

[lilac hedge]

Lord of shade is sliming out hornet

No hesitation

[limpid summit]

We don’t know what WQ is thinking or would even do but she’s not beating unified VGFocus

[rough ingot]

my friend put an argument: its called everbloom

i obviously know hornet’s getting owned

that thing owned the radiance, and saved their sister

the strangest part is people even think its a competition…

[orchid pine]

Why is the Bellbeast holding a silk heart?

[sterile jacinth]

Dunno. Could have come from the huge amount of silk she was trapped in

I really want to see fan designs of wq

[tepid mountain]

Silk hearts could just be dense concentrations of silk that Hornet consumes, yeah. Since the other two are gotten from Unraveled and Lace, both heavy concentrations of silk themselves.

[sterile jacinth]

And both heavily connected to gms

It’s all her silk

And a huge amount of her silk at that

[lethal burrow]

Thoughts on this architecture

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe stone citadel era

Like wayfinding points for pilgrims

Not sure what it’s doing in Verdania

Unless some pilgrims came from that way

It kinda looks like pious ismus

[tepid mountain]

Bilewater one would also seem kinda weird in that case.

[mint stratus]

You know it really is wild that the citadel doesn’t have the ability to mass produce currency and has to hand carve them instead

For how industrious they are

[sterile jacinth]

I think it was pre gilded era

So stone citadel. Their whole deal was that all were equal and labor is valued. More like humility

[frigid belfry]

Some idiot is trying to tell me that the knight was never hollow, can anyone assist me with some evidence

I’ve got voidheart desc, SotV ending, godhome nosk so far

[sinful nimbus]

Hollow as in pure/able to contain Radiance indefinitely?

They're right

[frosty beacon]

yeah, but they aren't purely hollow

[sinful nimbus]

Void Heart SOTV and Winged Nosk only prove that its not pure not that it was pure and then changed later

[frosty beacon]

they're extremely hollow, but not totally hollow

[frigid belfry]

Hollow as in no will, no feelings what not

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah that was never true of them why would it be

[frosty beacon]

when they drown in acid they attempt to swim up

[sterile jacinth]

It’s unclear if they’re hollow or not but I don’t think they were ever truly hollow

[polar fiber]

voidheart description literally tells us TK has a will

[sinful nimbus]

That just shows self preservation

[sterile jacinth]

You can give elderbug an everbloom. That contradicts the hollow thing I think

[frosty beacon]

isn't self preservation = will?

[sterile jacinth]

I’d say more like instinct

[sinful nimbus]

In a sense and TK is noted to have a will multiple times throughout the game but its unclear what PK's speech really means as its figurative

[sterile jacinth]

It was their desperate plan that was probably completely in vain the whole time. I think subconsciously they both knew that

If white lady could truly tell if something was hollow or not they wouldn’t have trained the hollow knight

[frosty beacon]

wait related question

why did white lady raise hornet then?

[twin dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-watching-eating-popcorn-drama-gif-12252109670276761360

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet was not intended to be a vessel

[frosty beacon]

yeah but like

what's hornet's deal in hallownest

i've seriously never thought about this

[twin dragon]

she was born in hallownest

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t know. Maybe just out of obligation. Their plan for her was definitely not to be a vessel

[twin dragon]

are we deadass

[frosty beacon]

yes :rebar:

[sterile jacinth]

She’s it’s protector

[frosty beacon]

oh yeah i really am a brick

[sterile jacinth]

Vespa seemed to only have trained her so Hornet spent weekends and christmases with her

[terse warren]

on one hand "I feel some affection for the creature birthed" doesn't communicate much love but also she does act very kindly to her in Red Memory

[frosty beacon]

i think vespa would've been an awesome godmother when they were not training

[sterile jacinth]

I think it was kinda cause Hornet was staying there anyway lol. Wl got attached

[sterile jacinth]

Oh I bet. It’s probably where most of hornets personality comes from

[frosty beacon]

if hallownest x pharloom dlc would be real (it's not gonna happen), we should be able to use elegy of the deep on vespa corpse to fight her again

[twin dragon]

Fuck nah

dont let hallownest x pharloom ever happen

[frosty beacon]

yeah hallownest x pharloom is so stupid

but it's a what if

[sterile jacinth]

A Vespa fight would be awesome but I really hope they don’t do a hallownest dlc. That place is dead narratively

[solar tapir]

I dont think tc return to Hallownest ever again, its story is ended

[sterile jacinth]

Exactly

[frosty beacon]

why did vespa get big again

[solar tapir]

she aged

[twin dragon]

i deadass thought it was a painting

[lethal burrow]

you would think so, but then there's karak architecture on top of it

[sterile jacinth]

Hmmm…

There are pillars everywhere

[frosty beacon]

maybe pharloom was ENTIRELY coral gorge???

[sterile jacinth]

The carving of a pilgrim I think is stone citadel

Maybe the pillars themselves are just really freaking old

[frosty beacon]

no clue

[sterile jacinth]

Also there’s only so many shapes you can use for a metroidvania to keep the no slants rule

[valid coral]

Wasn't it said that Khann used to rule half of pharloom?

[frosty beacon]

yeah like

[arctic cliff]

Where?

[valid coral]

Shaman dialogue regarding him iirc

[arctic cliff]

Oh

I think I missed that

[lethal burrow]

yeah, but it seems weird that it would be in places like verdania and karak also having built separate different looking architecture on top of it

[valid coral]

Hired architects from karak?

Fuck if I know

Could just be pillars being pillars

And this isn't even related to Karak and is just something the entire kingdom did

[lethal burrow]

In narrative architectural styles belongs to factions this is how it works. You can't just have a be a thing that everyone does.

[solar tapir]

It still can be citadel stone era

or what do u mean

[lethal burrow]

what makes you say so, considering it predates karak stuff and is built in verdania

[sterile jacinth]

It could predate all the real civilizations we really know about

[lethal burrow]

well, the only thing that we know is before the old hearts is the ancient civilization and they don't seem to have similar architecture so who knows

mystery in between faction

[sterile jacinth]

Yea we don’t know

[solar tapir]

Im not sure i see where it predates on the screen. Maybe this was build alongside with karak

[sterile jacinth]

Pharloom has been around for quite awhile judging by the literal mountain of bones

[solar tapir]

they couldn't conquer it in a day, obviously

[past cypress]

Maybe it isn't a pilgrim

[viscid ridge]

Is shakras tribe in the bounds of Pharloom, or is it oustide it?

Cause i can remember her saying somewhere that its somewhere on the edge of pharloom, but im not sure?

[past cypress]

Maybe it's just how the majority of Pharloom ppl looked

I mean it's the most common pilgrim type isn't it?

[lethal burrow]

looks exactly like the pilgrim statues in the marrow with the bowl and all

[lethal burrow]

It's at the edge apparently whatever that means

[arctic cliff]

She said at the edge of Pharloom

[past cypress]

Kingdom's Edge you say...

[lethal burrow]

I guess there's greater pharloom and there's centre pharloom

And we only explore the ladder

[arctic cliff]

I think Pharloom Bay

[past cypress]

(latter)

[arctic cliff]

[solar tapir]

Or it can be really some ancient structures and weavers built citadel in this style

[lethal burrow]

or maybe it's just on a different access that we can't go to because it's 2D.

[viscid ridge]

Ok but to be fair i think those bones have been there before pharloom was established, like very ancient fossils. But i agree that Pharloom is way older, way older than Hallownest

[past cypress]

Idk about that

[sterile jacinth]

I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s older than hallownest. They’re both very very old

No way to tell which is older

[solar tapir]

Like pillars was first, and then pilgrims statues were built in simillar way

[past cypress]

Pharloom went through the Old Hearts, GMS, Weavers and Bell People

Hallownest went through Radiance, PK, infection return which is described as "ancient"

[lethal burrow]

I guess that's fair but then that doesn't really answer the underlying question so it's sort of Eun-se

[past cypress]

So just from THK's creation to the start of the game is enough to call it ancient

Let alone all the things PK and Radiance did before that

[sterile jacinth]

And before pk

[lethal burrow]

The ruin of the kingdom lasted longer than its lifespan is what is spoken

[past cypress]

Before PK was Radiance

[lethal burrow]

(and others)

[past cypress]

Not really confirmed when the others appeared

[lethal burrow]

they predate the pk

[past cypress]

Just to be clear we're talking ABT Mantises and the Deepnest folks right?

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t know how long rad has been around

[viscid ridge]

You have to remember that the weavers were in deepnest before the Pale King created Hallownest, aswell as the citidel being way bigger and more advanced than Hallownest ever was. I know pharloom had better metalwork due to the lava, but still it seems incredibly more advanced which i think would have taken time

[lethal burrow]

ye and the mushrooms

[past cypress]

We know it's before PK

[lethal burrow]

we don't know if they came before or after the radiant moths or whatever but for intensive purposes, they're on the same timeline for being around compared to each other

[sterile jacinth]

Yea we just don’t know how long it’s been

[past cypress]

Hallownest is a ruined kingdom that has been under the infection for enough time for THK to be "ancient"

[solar tapir]

citadel hardly a city tho

[lethal burrow]

One ancient does not comparable to another ancient, I would have to say

[arctic cliff]

But both went through the ancient civilisation, so we can’t really say, which kingdom is older

[solar tapir]

Big ass church

meanwhile city of tears is megapolis

[viscid ridge]

We dont know precisely, but the weaver argument makes me certain pharloom is older. The Pale King might be the same age as Silk, but in respects to the Kingdoms id say Pharloom is definitely older.

[past cypress]

All we know is Conductors appeared in Pharloom before PK appeared in Hallownest

[solar tapir]

Who is more advanced then

[past cypress]

That's basically the only comparison we have

[twin dragon]

I would say pharloom

[past cypress]

Hallownest magically, Pharloom technologically

[twin dragon]

Since pharloom found a way to integrate soul into basically everything

[sterile jacinth]

That makes sense. Outside of pks rule we really have no idea lol. Both seem indescribably ancient

[twin dragon]

because they have it right there

[lethal burrow]

what makes you say so?

Do we know when the Weavers arrived compared to the pale kings rule?

[arctic cliff]

City of Steel , obviously. Void whips, void swords and lasers

[viscid ridge]

Pharloom is more advanced in metalwork, due to having natural flowing lava, but Hallownest seems to have more magical advancements

[arctic cliff]

The lasers are not void, however

[twin dragon]

Also pharloom uses soul mechanisms

[lilac hedge]

Well talk once it gets released

[twin dragon]

While hallownest seems pretty basic with how it works

[past cypress]

Pharloom's magic is limited to silkflies, weaver doors and weaver elevators

[twin dragon]

I'd say silk is part of their technological capacity

[viscid ridge]

We know the weavers were in deepnest before the pale king arrived, which makes me come to the conclusion that Pharloom was already established before Hallownest

[arctic cliff]

Sharpe used his proboscis as a sword and as a whip

[lethal burrow]

The two kingdoms are advanced in different ways and let's not forget the mining robots in Crystal Peak, they had their own automaton

[lethal burrow]

How do we know that?

[twin dragon]

True

[solar tapir]

I mean Hallownest have a city(not a big church or shrine), trams, and it seems it somewhat more advanced in logistic way

[past cypress]

It depends on what you consider "established"

[twin dragon]

No shit, hallownest is meant to be an actual livable place

But pharloom has fucking

soul syphons

[solar tapir]

alr i agree in raw tech comparison Pharloom is better

[lethal burrow]

If the two kingdoms had to be compared to real life places, which would they be most comparable to

[past cypress]

Pharloom has anti-homeless benches while Hallownest does not, Hallownest 1 - 0 morally

[solar tapir]

but the way it uses its tech

meh

[viscid ridge]

Yes, but in comparison with Hallownest, its not very magically potent. We mostly get soul silk from the weavers, and some small activity from the Ancients, while in Hallownest they are all over the place, soul is a lot more used, has a lot more gods and ties to the dream realm.

[lethal burrow]

like which is the closest, like if you had to say "pharloom is ______"

[twin dragon]

The silk is from GMS btw

[past cypress]

Pharloom is South Korea with North Korean dictatorship

[twin dragon]

Hallownest in general doesn't seem to use much magic in its tech

even though it has more hbs

[past cypress]

Either South Korea or Japan

[viscid ridge]

I am aware, it doesn't change my argument

[sterile jacinth]

Pale king did not approve of experiments with soul in general

[twin dragon]

yeah well

Citadel's rulers crossed quite a bunch of moral boundaries

[past cypress]

The GOAT Soul Master does not need "approval" from Pale FRAUD

Emphasis on MASTER (and GOAT)

[viscid ridge]

Hallownest dabled in robots, but not to the scale of the cogwork core in pharloom

[lethal burrow]

was it not the mass murder of hallownest citizens?

[twin dragon]

Yeah

I mean uh

[sterile jacinth]

?

Ooh

[past cypress]

Yeah pretty much

[twin dragon]

even if pk didn't approve of it

[past cypress]

SM was taking Soul from bugs to be immortal

(he failed)

[twin dragon]

it seems like nothing was done

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe lol. Soul master says that pale king wouldn’t let him do his experiments

[past cypress]

(infection got his ass)

[twin dragon]

city of tears could be terrifying

[lethal burrow]

I wonder what the hell the connection is between essence and soul.

Silk stuff in silk song seems to have memory relations, but that was essence territory in the first game and the dream nail gives soul and it's all weird

[twin dragon]

like some mf that uses magic kidnaps you to extract your living energy to do some bullshit with it

[viscid ridge]

Its more likely that the soul experiments continued after pale king left, which is why he did nothing about it

[twin dragon]

Mind could be a big part of something's soul

[twin dragon]

He did do something as soul master mentions

[lethal burrow]

You only get essence on a rare chance from hitting someone with your regular nail, but you don't get any essence at all at any chance if you just hit them with the dream nail

[twin dragon]

then again, the big ass pile of corpses everywhere

kinda contradicts it

[lone folio]

The bugs essence is in the soul so when the knight dream nails it also takes some of the soul while extracting memories??

Idk man

[twin dragon]

deadass

no essence from DREAM NAIL use is criminal

[solar tapir]

its the question i already debated/seen here before and its most confused topic of all

[lethal burrow]

The radiance is made of essence, but can be dreamnailed to get soul,

[lethal burrow]

yeah, but silk song tied memories stuff to silk, which is sort of connected to soul so It's is more confusing than ever so

[sterile jacinth]

Might be another form of soul like silk

[lone folio]

And when you just use your nail it also gives soul

[lethal burrow]

Do you get soul from hitting the collector with the dream nail?

I seemed to recall the answer being ...yes*?*

[viscid ridge]

I know he did, he rejected it, but as i mentioned i think after the pale king left the soul master took the opportunity and killed all the bugs for soul, when the king couldn't stop him

[twin dragon]

He also was seemingly doing this to "stop the infection"

So it could've been that

[lethal burrow]

But then the infection twisted his mind

[twin dragon]

Then bro fell for the radbait

[lethal burrow]

trueee

[viscid ridge]

You have to remember there were 2 waves, which the soul master did it as an attempt after the 2nd wave

[solar tapir]

Clearly tc just didnt want to have some straight connect to first game, completly different story

[twin dragon]

No idea about the waves stuff

[solar tapir]

but from the lore perspective we walk on an edge of what memory and dreams even are. Like they are the same but not completly and it is the best explanation i've seen here

[viscid ridge]

Waves of infection

[twin dragon]

Yeah but where is it mentioned

The dreams could be related to the soul of its user idk

[viscid ridge]

Its not mentioned, its just a way to talk about the spread of diseases dawg

[lethal burrow]

can somebody list every instance of essence/memories, and soul/silk interacting or being related?

[twin dragon]

do we know the infection had "waves"

because it doesnt spread like your average virus

[viscid ridge]

Bruh what

[lethal burrow]

I mean it had waves in that it was stopped for a time and then came back

[twin dragon]

Where is it stated

[lethal burrow]

because the hollow Knight didn't immediately fail, it contained it for a little bit

Then it started leaking from the temple and the pale King dipped into the dream realm

[twin dragon]

Makes sense

[lethal burrow]

I can also say that since the radiance presumably is more powerful the more people worship it that it started off slow, but the more people that were infected the more powerful the infection got, therefore the faster it spread? Sort of a theory, but it makes sense with what we know.

[viscid ridge]

So the first wave of the infection was stopped as a result of the Hollow Knight, but the second wave occurred as a result of the Radiance starting to break out, which is when the city of tears was locked, and the spul master probably did his experiments to try and stop it

[twin dragon]

fym as a result of the hollow knight

😭

[viscid ridge]

Cause the radiance was trapped in the hollow knight, which stopped it for a while?

Basic lore stuff?

[twin dragon]

That's when the second wave begun

not the first one

basic lore stuff

[frigid belfry]

maybe, we know at least the radiance is sustained metaphysically

[viscid ridge]

Ok so please tell me what stopped the first wave?

[twin dragon]

The death of the radiance

bruv

radiance getting sealed away

for some time

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, by who?

[twin dragon]

The pale king with the use of the hollow knight

[viscid ridge]

Exactly 🥳🥳

[tepid mountain]

I think you all have different definitions of wave.

[twin dragon]

No i just misread

since this mf managed to sneak in a "stopped"

in his sentence

on god that wasn't there

you cant fool me

I misread it as "the first wave began because of the hollow knight"

[viscid ridge]

I didn't edit the message dawg, you just cant read 😭

[twin dragon]

im gonna die

[twin dragon]

I know

im coping

fuck you

[arctic cliff]

Christopher Larkin should win

[tepid mountain]

What.

[lone folio]

Y e a h

[arctic cliff]

I’m about game awards

[tepid mountain]

Oh

[arctic cliff]

Oh, Silksong sits in the first place

Let’s go

[silk dirge]

im gonna vote silksong every category its in

[lethal burrow]

Is there anything to contradict the statement that essence has soul inside of it basically

[lone folio]

I will vote for cars 2 on the Nintendo 3DS

[lone folio]

Not really no

Could also explain why the snail shaman and white lady can tell when the knight is reading their thoughts since both of those npcs have a big connection to soul

[silk dirge]

this is the second time im voting for something this year

[timber pond]

is it possible to vot right now

[sinful nimbus]

Dude i cannot wjait for the siolksong orchestra

[silk dirge]

if we vote silksong goty we can get tc to go there and ask them questions like "why is hornet racist"

[sinful nimbus]

how if feels to see Pinstress come on stage while they're playing strive ang djo BA LA DA CACAQAAAAAW

[silk dirge]

its a peak plan

this website is so cooked rn

star how do you feel about the fact silksong isnt nominated for this category

[sinful nimbus]

Indescribably happy

Maybe I was too harsh on TGA

[vestal swan]

Tga talk isn't lore

[sinful nimbus]

My apologieswhat do you think about the cindril nosk crackpot

[silk dirge]

the what

[viscid ridge]

The game awards

[silk dirge]

im asking about this

i know what tga is

[sinful nimbus]

• Stealing things from memories is a weaver trait according to Hornet
• Despite being similar entities Skynx can't steal faces from memories like Nosk can

Conclusion: Nosk was mimicking a Weaver in Weavenest Cindril who learned how to mimick Weaver techniques and eventually fled to Hallownest with Herrah and the others.

"In the deepest darkness, there are beasts who wear faces stolen from your memories and pluck at the strings in your heart"

[viscid ridge]

Christopher Larkin is definitely gonna be taking that trophy for best soundtrack

[silk dirge]

i hope so

its going to be tough tho

[viscid ridge]

Cant see the message, i blocked that person cause they're a prick

[silk dirge]

from what im hearing e33 is probably gonna sweep a fuck ton of awards

[sinful nimbus]

Powdered is this tuff

[spark valve]

you forgot the hallownest nosk using mock silk

[sinful nimbus]

True true

[viscid ridge]

E33 is incredible, but i hope silksong wil sweep

[vestal swan]

Nosk is an imitation weaver?
Terrible

[sinful nimbus]

No Nosk was imitating a weaver

[vestal swan]

That's what I said

[sinful nimbus]

I see I see

guh

Its struck me

[spark valve]

it's*

[sinful nimbus]

Can Herrah's change in appearance be explained by her being a nosk

Malleable nature...

It fits together

[spark valve]

are you saying pk is actually the weaver

[lethal burrow]

I wonder if in the case that it wins, we will get new DLC related announcements, which will contain snippets of what could be analyzed as LORE.

there, it's related.

[sinful nimbus]

No maybe the Citadel just mistook Hornet for one

Can't really blame them

[foggy fractal]

what does this mean ? that the citadel is stupid ?

[spark valve]

Everyone is stupid except the snails

[sinful nimbus]

I mean they sensed a large amount of silk in Hornet

[viscid ridge]

Hopefully we'll get a pharloom bay dlc next year, but i doubt they'll anoince anything at the game awards. Team cherry seems like the type of people to not even have expected to be at the GA at all 🤣

[sinful nimbus]

You know where Nosks get this silk from? Silkeaters

Why else would Skynx want them

[spark valve]

True

[lethal burrow]

I'm gonna buy it for myself as a Christmas gift

[lethal burrow]

I feel like silk song is already above the game awards. It doesn't need more flowers.

[foggy fractal]

the architects seems pretty smart, at least in the machines they built, like I for one can't do that

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, they don't wanna spend the money to get a trailer in there. They can release it on their own channel for free.

[viscid ridge]

Silksong should have its own award show called the Silk awards lmao

[spark valve]

They’re slavers

[sinful nimbus]

Evil geniuses...

[lethal burrow]

They're also slaves though

[foggy fractal]

dr doofenshmirtz......

[viscid ridge]

Didn't 12 mention that the first architects where created by the weavers?

[twin dragon]

What isn't a slave in pharloom

[spark valve]

Nothing

Other than the snails they’re chilling

[twin dragon]

Nothing is lucky as shit then

[sinful nimbus]

Who let Bell Hermit on discord dawg 😭 🙏

[spark valve]

He’s right

[twin dragon]

fuck off, slave

[twin dragon]

Yes

[lethal burrow]

where

[twin dragon]

And each one of them was worse than the other

[twin dragon]

i mean im actually not sure

[foggy fractal]

does Shakra's tribe count ? they are said to be on the boarder of Pharloom right ? though we never get to see it in game

[twin dragon]

but we can assume that

[spark valve]

They might be fine

[lethal burrow]

they're just on the access We don't get to see of the map because it is 2-D game.

[sinful nimbus]

They have child soldiers though

[foggy fractal]

how about forgedaughter ? she's just contracted yes

[twin dragon]

But the architect has the directive to serve the weavers soo

[sinful nimbus]

wyhat the devilsa is the forgehome

Imagine how tuff it would be if the diving bell led there

[lethal burrow]

Somewhere else

[twin dragon]

fuck they would do down there

[sinful nimbus]

Forge homes

[viscid ridge]

What i find incredibly interesting about weaver architecture, is how the old weaver architecture has a very black and spikey look to it all, which then evolved into a more colorful style like we see in Weavers den. The architecture of the weavers den in Hallownest looks a lot more like the citidel, with some heavy use of gold and such

[twin dragon]

you cant do that in the surface apparently

[sinful nimbus]

Well the lava is hotter downwards or something idk

[twin dragon]

ah yes, you need hotter lava to forge homes

[sinful nimbus]

Really strong homes yeah

Also its tuff

[twin dragon]

hotter lava = stronger product

mhm

[sinful nimbus]

They can melt the really tough metals

[twin dragon]

Not so strong if they can be smelted

[sinful nimbus]

[twin dragon]

some bum could grab the hot hotter lava

and throw it on house

[viscid ridge]

I actually wonder where the Forgehome actually is? Cause it can only be somewhere in the marrow, or maybe the cauldron on the citidel?

[twin dragon]

they better carve that shit out of

whatever the hell the doors in the game are made of

[lethal burrow]

I see no reason why it can't be outside of the entire of pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

Its made of pale ore to counteract the lava

[twin dragon]

Too expensive

mate you compromised half of the natural pale ore deposits AND 5000 pilgrims to build that shit

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, but i doubt that there would be another perfect area like the marrow so far from pharloom so idk

[sinful nimbus]

Progress is progress and progress must grow

[twin dragon]

it could js be

a lava area

[twin dragon]

ur stunting the development for literally anyone else

and maybe for yourself

if you use the pale ore for uh

haus

[viscid ridge]

Also i really hope we get a bay dlc, cause there was a lot of concept art for boats and ships and stuff. I would love to see how bug ships whould look like in game

[silk dirge]

verdania be like

[twin dragon]

holy shit bug ships

[silk dirge]

imagine you get a seal bug you can take to steel city

[twin dragon]

Oh fuck nah

steel city cant be a good place to be in

but i cant believe hornet would make me jump straight into danger

and unknown territory

for that aura

[silk dirge]

have people here seen this https://youtu.be/2zj5anYku4s?si=_c3AecFtST5doVZM

its cut content so not canon but what the fuck was supposed to be going on here

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe that was going to be the final stage of the haunting or something

Or we would get Haunted Songclave

[foggy fractal]

grand mother silk shenanigans

[silk dirge]

i feel like maybe this was supposed to be instead of the "dead citadel" before we talk to lace

im not sure

[sinful nimbus]

Oh true

[silk dirge]

also i love the ambience that plays when you first enter the citadel

let me see if i can find it

[sinful nimbus]

trueee

One of the tuffest parts of the game

[silk dirge]

https://youtu.be/Vhw-hTtuo8A?si=lRd6syDlifTt_6Xb

[sinful nimbus]

Screenshot doesn't really do it justice since its easier to see with motion but I love the weird house thingies in the background. Choral Chambers most magical part of the game fr

[silk dirge]

the what

i dont see houses

[sinful nimbus]

i don't know what they're called 😭

[silk dirge]

those look like windows

unless you mean smth else

[foggy fractal]

genuinely wtf are these thingamabobs

[silk dirge]

oh i see what you mean

[sinful nimbus]

just kinda buildings ig

[timber pond]

Bulbo buildings

[sinful nimbus]

This UW bench slightly before entering the Citadel is really beautiful too

Great dust effect

[silk dirge]

ahh yes the beauty of one time use benches

[sinful nimbus]

You don't get it

[foggy fractal]

ari really turned the particles effects to 11 this time around

[sinful nimbus]

Being dirt poor and having to grind rosaries for the benches and ventrica really encapsulates the horror of monotonous 9 to 5s

[lone folio]

Economy is the most beautiful thing of them all

Trust

[sinful nimbus]

Underworks might be a bit more than a 9 to 5 but shhh

[foggy fractal]

I remember first entering the bellway building in bone bottom and thinking wtf so much dust

[lone folio]

23:45 to 00:00

Wait no

I did it wrong

Damn it

That would mean it's 15 minutes instead of the entire day and 15 minute break

[lone folio]

00:15 to 00:00

[sinful nimbus]

🗣️ but actually

[unique canopy]

By Conductor decree, more hours will be added to the day so the tireless work of our citizens may increase. Glory to the Citadel.

[lone folio]

Glory to the citadel 🔥

[silk dirge]

GLORY TO PHARLOOM ETERNAL

[lone folio]

For pharloom eternal

May our shells never tire and may our minds never faulter, for pharloom eternal we will serve

[foggy fractal]

"'For Pharloom eternal,' states the d-d-directive-cage"
"Through its sacrifice Hallownest lasts eternal"
looks inside
both dead

[timber pond]

By Team Chery's Decree More Hours will be added to the game, so the tireless #sk-lore can speculate endlessly for all time. Glory to Higher beings.

[sterile jacinth]

Ah the glory of impermanence

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest isn't dead dw

Our glorious kinglight would never falter...

[sterile jacinth]

Hallownest:

[timber pond]

Maybe this is all a plot by The steel city so they can eat the void after they die or something idk🔥

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe they too will fall

[timber pond]

I get the vibe that they are like "undead" if that makes sense

[sterile jacinth]

Nothing last forever no matter how much anyone wants it to

[timber pond]

That they are shambling around the courpse of a previous civilization for thier own gain

Vassals likely being slaves and all

[fallow sphinx]

Has anyone else also realised lace is canonically Hornets’ aunt so all the ships people are making are even more screwed up