sk-lore

[twin dragon]

And how do they even materialize

[vestal swan]

Multiple HJ entries iirc

[sterile jacinth]

Where tf are you getting that

[civic crest]

i first tried lace 1 and 2

but groal...

[sterile jacinth]

So pure gameplay?

[slow olive]

Groal has a gauntlet before him

[twin dragon]

So the bugs in the crossroads are magically starting to resist her "more" after the seal weakens, or is it the radiance overpowering them

[sterile jacinth]

Not really the channel for that lol

[civic crest]

its sk lore why are we talking about hk ecaxtly?

[sterile jacinth]

She’s absolutely spreading her infection even further. Resisting isn’t an option they’ve already lost

[vestal swan]

Same amount of resistance more power

[twin dragon]

So the latter, yeah

[olive quartz]

the latter, once the infection reaches a certain critical mass it starts to act like an actual biological infection

[twin dragon]

how does it form doe

Radiance isn't really a physical thing

[sterile jacinth]

Unclear. Magic

[civic crest]

how do i get silk soar.

[twin dragon]

And she's related to light, not to blight

[sterile jacinth]

Go to the abyss. Wrong channel for this tho

[civic crest]

i only have 1 more boss to end the game and i dont still have it

[olive quartz]

or well. this isn't the right explanation, the right explanation is that team cherry didn't nail down exactly how the infection works, so it works like both a magical dream virus and an actual orange goop virus

[sterile jacinth]

Act 3 exclusive. You might want to leave there’s a ton of spoilers here

[olive quartz]

i mean, we clearly see physical effects of infection on individual bugs

[civic crest]

nah

i just want the shaman crest

[twin dragon]

Yeah but how exactly does it form

[civic crest]

its op

[olive quartz]

and they seem to be able to spread considering the infection can form vines and tendrils and stuff

[twin dragon]

We know that the haunting is gms's own threads

[civic crest]

but i need silk soar for it

[sterile jacinth]

Still act 3 exclusive

[civic crest]

bruv

[olive quartz]

We Don't Know

[twin dragon]

That's cool

[olive quartz]

it's not really important

[twin dragon]

It is

[vestal swan]

We know where it comes from and why we don't need the exact explanation of how

[sterile jacinth]

It’s through dreams for sure. It might gain some physical properties just through how powerful rad is

[twin dragon]

You could think that yeah

But it's never stated

[olive quartz]

yeah it is just a magic infection that probably also has a component of physical spread

[sterile jacinth]

Through dreams? I’m pretty sure it is

[hexed kindle]

Where do you guys think the steel city is geology wise

[twin dragon]

-dream god control
???
-Orange juice

[olive quartz]

literally yes, team cherry did not work this out either

[sterile jacinth]

The solution is probably that rad is very powerful and it’s just like magic

[twin dragon]

Im willing to bet that's the radiance's closest thing to a physical manifestation

[sterile jacinth]

Not something to overthink

[olive quartz]

i believe the infection was designed before the radiance

[twin dragon]

And that it comes out deformed and volatile, as is her wrath

[sterile jacinth]

Could be the case but the dream nail dialogue references rad a lot

[olive quartz]

the infection was initially an explanation for "why do all the critters hate you" and the actual story basis came after the fact

[sterile jacinth]

Especially with Myla

[twin dragon]

Good thing they actually thought out the haunting this time

Even though it's a very similar concept

[olive quartz]

"what if it's some magical dream god" was probably as far as team cherry got when designing the crossroads

no, this is sk lore

[sterile jacinth]

Not the channel for this

[olive quartz]

please be patient

indeed you are

[sterile jacinth]

Look on YouTube or sk help

[twin dragon]

Why did they feel like making the radiance incorporeal anyways

[olive quartz]

as to explain why the hollow knight is a thing

[sterile jacinth]

It’s cool. Also the whole dream theme

[twin dragon]

They could've like absorbed her without her being the dream

[olive quartz]

Light is life, beaming, pure, brilliant. To stifle that light is to suppress nature.

Nature suppressed distorts, plagues us. Embrace light!

[sterile jacinth]

Is that moss prophet?

[olive quartz]

moss prophet's dialogue suggests that the infection is not simply her wrath but the resistance to it

[sterile jacinth]

Yea willpower seems to be a reoccurring theme of resisting the will of higher beings

[twin dragon]

Moss prophet seems to be more infected as the time goes on, even if i'd expect him to be the last thing to resist the infection

[olive quartz]

again, it's not clearly nailed down

[twin dragon]

Yeah well we can only speculate

[sterile jacinth]

Not really sure why they’re more lucid than other infected beings

[olive quartz]

moss prophet gets more infected because team cherry had a vague sense that once something is infected the infection gets worse over time, like a real disease

[frank dove]

What infection?

[twin dragon]

Also how exactly did the hollow knight slurp up the radiance? was she located in one specific body? how so?

[frank dove]

Oh I read that as moss druid mb

[olive quartz]

possibly their innate drive was to be a prophet so they just kept doing that

[sterile jacinth]

The seals also loosen and the hollow knight is failing

[olive quartz]

we don't know! neither does team cherry!!

[twin dragon]

that is fucking cool!

[sterile jacinth]

That makes sense

[twin dragon]

Like she's supposed to be incorporeal and stuff

and yet she's located in... one mind somehow?

[sterile jacinth]

Probably dreamer or pale king magic. We don’t know

[frank dove]

Guys, just confirming, garmond is def hermit crab from pharloom bay, right?

Just look at the head shape

[olive quartz]

i mean, the white palace is also located in the mind of one kingsmould

[sterile jacinth]

Wa

[slow olive]

NKG is only found in grimm's mind so it could be something like that

[olive quartz]

yeah "places or people existing in the dreams of others" is not really unusual in hollow knight

[sterile jacinth]

They probably focused to absorb her somehow

[twin dragon]

That's also dream bs but at the very least the palace was like, a physical thing

I could say that dreams are a physical dimension aswell, just in a different way

[slow olive]

Pharloom bay has hermit crabs?

[frank dove]

Maybe not hermit crabs, but just from the area

Trailer data used to say baby hermit crab or something for that guy in the village

But the buildings and shells looks just like garmond's head

And he talks about his old town all dying or something

[twin dragon]

So i could say that the radiance was physical, only in the dream world though

[slow olive]

Do you have screenshots

[frank dove]

Here #sk-discussion message

[slow olive]

Youre talking about one of the trailers right

[frank dove]

Yes

[twin dragon]

And it could've been PK's magic bullshit dream control to allow the radiance to be sealed off in one place

But it's so vague

[slow olive]

Which of the trailers had pharloom bay footage

[frank dove]

The old ones

Idk

[vestal swan]

Well we do have multiple unconfirmed location on the border villages, like Shakras, Garmonds could be one of the ones we never see

[slow olive]

It would be neat to find their villages in future dlcs

[vestal swan]

Also wherever the fuck pilgrims come from

[frank dove]

Almost 100%

There is another hermit crab hidden behind curtains in shadows in memorium, a door to the area, old maps with pharloom bay in it

[twin dragon]

Could be the one in the surface but there's loose evidence on that

[frank dove]

And xlotol talks about it, places like shakra quest, pale lake and part of the weavenest in bilewater look a lot like it

And whole lifeblood tower thing there, which xylotol said is where his master is

[vestal swan]

That one seems long abandoned, I'm willing to bet that all of the other villages that get mentioned or hinted at are completely separate and that one at the top was cleared out like way before the haunting and the citadel even started

[twin dragon]

If you play the needolin near the corpse, they talk about promises whispered

I could assume they're talking about the weavers drawing them in

[vestal swan]

Garmonds village
Shakras
Xolofts
Pilgrim village
And then we also have the ones we saw in trailers that could or could not be the same as some of these

[twin dragon]

But then again that's like the last bug in the village

[frank dove]

Oh waaaaait yeahh that head shape is even closer, not to mention we see another dead member of the town that

[frigid belfry]

pilgrimnest

[vestal swan]

The weavers don't need to be the ones making the lie, could have been GMS. There's pharlids near the top too, I think she might have started the Weaver's from creatures near this town and they got brought down too

[frank dove]

AND they all got haunted, exactly what garmond said

[frigid belfry]

yeah the nameless town isnt garmonds village

[frank dove]

Only he and the other guy resisted, but the other guy died and garmond went down anyway

[twin dragon]

The weavers are known to manipulate and "whisper" though

[frank dove]

Why

[twin dragon]

Several mentions of it by several npcs iirc

Or it could be the citadel's song being heard

[frigid belfry]

garmonds village was said to be haunted, the nameless town is directly said to be FREE of gms's influence due to being above her

[twin dragon]

Yeah there's this piece of evidence

Which kinda contradicts the entire garmond thing

[frigid belfry]

also cool foreshadowing with how pharlids are mainly located above gms's coccon (where she has no influence), foreshadowing their defiance against her control

[vestal swan]

That's kind of the opposite of foreshadowing

[twin dragon]

Though it MIGHT and just MIGHT be that their members died out and the village was ravaged because of the haunting

Or left abandoned due to the inhabitants being drawn in

Though it's kind of in the place where gms can't reach soo

[frigid belfry]

kind of not

pharlids are above her influence -> weavers defied her influence

[frank dove]

No, it says the residents were all haunted and led into the 'kingdom below,' except for the corpse above who resisted but then died alone

[twin dragon]

still wrong since they're in the zone that's free of her reach

Since the flying platform thingies and the lil roach bugs aren't haunted

[frank dove]

Mb, not directly haunted, they were called down by either the weavers or gms and then haunted

[twin dragon]

Yeah that's the likely answer

[frank dove]

So still matches up with what garmond says

Not to mention he looks exactly like them

[vestal swan]

You find out at like the very end of the game, that means it's not foreshadowing anything, it's also a past event. Finding out GMS was the bad guy happens way before you go above her arena

[twin dragon]

I rlly love the surface climb

The ambience really screams that you're going out of bounds

[frank dove]

#sk-lore message k definitely weavers

But that guy does have same head shape as garmond

[west merlin]

could the craws hypothetically be a cult?
i mean, crawFATHER feels similar to FATHER of the flame.
not only that but they resemble birds, and everyone knows one of the BIGGEST predators to bugs collectively is birds
not only that but the faydown “bird” is also talked about by the mask maker in a way like its something higher or above most bugs, akin to a way something like a bird would be spoken of

this might just be kind of a crack theory but im genuinely wondering whats up with the craws considering they dont have much lore, do they?

[gleaming thorn]

Weird question but the wings hornet gets can it get her higher than the knights monarch wings?like in lore

[sterile jacinth]

They feel more like a society with a really strict law/moral code

Could be cultlike but they don’t really worship a being

[west merlin]

fair

i just think somethings up with them

they feel very lacking despite having a decent population and imposing influence in greymoor

theyre also a very closed community

just kinda reminds me of a cult

[sterile jacinth]

I think they don’t possess a great enough threat for the citadel to really care about them

[west merlin]

true true

i hate them as an enemy but they do interest me a lot cuz i wanna know what could be up with them

ill be keeping an eye on them as the game gets dlc and stuff

[frigid belfry]

its a play on real life phenonenon where crows have their own "judical" system (other crows will gang up and attack crows they deem bad)

this was definitely intentional lmao

[west merlin]

that makes a lot more sense

but that just kinda makes me wonder even more because i get its a judicial system but i think that whole deeming others bad and attacking them feels very much like a religion or cult to me

i might just be going crazy though

[sterile jacinth]

It’s cultlike but not necessarily a cult

[desert cloak]

hear me out: the hunter was one of the weaver spawns that were tracked down and killed by GMS, imagine stumbling upon his husk in a weaver cage in a future DLC👀

[silk dirge]

no

hunter is not a weaver 😭

[desert cloak]

it sounds very much like something TC would pull, like as a background secret if not a new NPC

[silk dirge]

6 eyes =/= weaver

otherwise these would be weavers

[desert cloak]

well

those are its arms....

[sinful nimbus]

It does sound like something TC would pull I agree

[desert cloak]

its like an evolutionary adaptation/symbol of devotion to herrah

[desert cloak]

they love adding seemingly unnecessary parallels like why does hornet have so much similarities to Grimm

[frosty gate]

Those are its eyes

[lean temple]

They should just hire you fr

[desert cloak]

well they're round

[frosty gate]

What about it?

[foggy fractal]

I don't think there's anything contradicting the hunter being a weaver descendant but we don't have any information so it's all speculation

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is a spider Grimm is a Halloween special inspired by spiders

And the crawl is really the only similarity in that regard

[frosty gate]

Literally the only thing similar
People are looking for Weavers anywhere these days

[desert cloak]

it could also likely be a case of running out of original ideas

[frosty gate]

Huh?

[sinful nimbus]

I mean,,,, I wouldn't disagree

[unique canopy]

The main thing contradicting it is that we only know of Hornet being specifically targeted from Hallownest, when the Citadel was targeting Weaverspawn as far down as 1/8th blooded. So either he's not, they somehow missed him (which I guess might be understandable since they were focused on Hornet) or he's so diluted that being 1/16th Weaverspawn or whatever is effectively pointless.

[desert cloak]

team cherry's designs might be goated but theres only so many original designs one man can come up with before they start being a bit too similar

[sinful nimbus]

Hunter isn't that similar tbf

[desert cloak]

i dont remember quite well but the cages and their commandments are scattered everywhere about the cradle, it's likely we just didn't see it

[frosty gate]

I agree with that statement, people can run out of stuff, but I don't get which design are you taking into account?

[desert cloak]

im saying grimm might be a case of that

the scuttling and the drill cloak thing etc

and his head shape

[desert cloak]

which is why i think it'd be an extremely cool DLC breakable wall secret for the cradle

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm doesn't have a drill cloak

[frosty gate]

What about his head shape?

[sinful nimbus]

He transforms his cloak into a pointy object it doesn't drill in the animation afaik

[frosty gate]

It's more like a Lance

"Scuttling" is not particularly a moveᵗᵐ

Plus, Grimm was first, Hornet only does these moves in Silksong

[desert cloak]

i mean yeah i'm saying its similar in design, my point isnt that both moves could be related

[frosty gate]

Which, mind you, is a sequel

[bitter halo]

Also tbf, Hornet is also a more valuable weaverspawn because of her Wyrm nature, so even if envoys did find another, they'd probably stick with their single catch, especially if they are already low on bodies after trying to capture Hornet.

[desert cloak]

crescent shaped

[frosty gate]

I mean, sure i guess? Hornet's horns are longer

Grimm's are more round

[desert cloak]

people here get so caught up in arguing details they forget the point of the idea

[brave yoke]

scuttling is like jumping or dashing. it's just a movement option. the fact that Hornet and Grimm can both jump and scuttle doesn't tell us anything.

[frosty gate]

Exactly

[frosty gate]

You were the one who brought up those details to point out similarities between Hornet and Grimm

[desert cloak]

its an ability of weavers but i'm not sure if that even matters cuz grimm is literally a weird freaky nightmare being thing .. he can do Anything

[frosty gate]

How is scuttling a Weaver ability

[tepid mountain]

Yeah, Hornet literally needs a brace to do it.

[frosty gate]

Hornet can't even scuttle, she uses a prosthetic to do that

[desert cloak]

their legs bend in a way that makes them look like silly spiders, like the deepnest weaver, widow and FS

[bitter halo]

Hornet only scuttles if she has the brace on though, so it's not even a form of movement she can do naturally.

[frosty gate]

Weavers only scuttle because it seems that's the only way the can move with their silly bodies

[desert cloak]

i mean hornet is part wyrm give her a break

im pretty sure they just prefer it cuz its effective

thats not all that relevant though..

[frosty gate]

I still don't get the point you're trying to make by pointing out these

[vestal swan]

Hornets difficult birth gave her scoliosis ig, bc we do see weavers scuttling.
But hornet has no connection to Grimm and the hunter has no connection to Weavers

[desert cloak]

i was proposing the idea of a hunter cameo then it went from that to the possibility of it just being a coincidence, then gave grimm as an example

[desert cloak]

i think it's okay to speculate and make headcanons in the channel right? the hunter himself is way too mysterious in his ways, how he obscures his face and talks about having "no tribe" at all

[vestal swan]

Headcanons no

[desert cloak]

maybe he was casted out for not being weaver at all, considering how purist and bitter weavers can be

[vestal swan]

It needs to be based in game and it's pretty obvious that these characters aren't related

You have to ignore everything else about the hunter to even start to think he's related to the weavers

[frosty gate]

I mean, speculating is free, but you should expect a discussion about why you speculate whatever you do

[desert cloak]

how he notes hornet as a possible hunter is also very interesting

[desert cloak]

i feel like there's pretty much enough to go off of

[frosty gate]

Nuu is also a hunter

I don't see how that is related

[desert cloak]

him being male could be because he's a descendant who doesn't have enough prominent weaver genes to have silk either

[desert cloak]

well it's messy but thats just how it goes with team cherry, just a whole lot of mystery

[vestal swan]

The implied vagueness of a lot of topics is not an answer

[desert cloak]

ghost is given a mark and considered a true hunter as well, and i dont think nuu is really called a hunter? it's only hornet that's given the mark with the same symbol

[frosty gate]

If TC was gonna retcon Hunter into a Weaver, they would've done so in this game
They already did that with Herrah

[vestal swan]

You get a Hunter's Mark from a hunter

Nuu just wanted hornet to do research

[desert cloak]

oop my bad

[frosty gate]

She is a Hunter, how, idk, but she is a hunter

[vestal swan]

Stealth and bigass traps maybe

[desert cloak]

i guess a hunter is more a thing bugs become on their own, like say, a musician

[frosty gate]

She gives me the vibe she'd use acid

[vestal swan]

Nah, especially since one of the dialogues you can have is them wishing they could have seen the monster alive or fresh or smth

[orchid pine]

What are we taking about?

[vestal swan]

First taffic cone boss dialogue iirc

[vestal swan]

Hunters

[desert cloak]

she's obsessed with the tastes and smells of every creature throughout pharloom... i guess she's a scavenger? since she's seen examining the husks of bosses

[lethal burrow]

they feel more like the the cartel

[orchid pine]

The crawfia so to speak

[desert cloak]

it's a very interesting mix cuz they move like the mafia but it's also a sort of small court system

[vestal swan]

Mafia like groups having their own set of rules and laws is not out of the ordinary, a code or whatever.

Definitely not religious like a cult

[frosty gate]

It's actually very possible

It'd be one of the few damn things that would make sense on the origin of the Craws

[vestal swan]

Oh for origin, I say they just originally started out stealing the crops and formed a mafia afterwards

[frosty gate]

Maybe they just were the Mafia of the Moors before everything went to hell

[vestal swan]

Level 1 thief versus level 100 mafia boss

[frosty gate]

Probably yeah, but they were probably a lot smaller before

[edgy nebula]

i wonder how wisp thicket relates to the greymoor farmlands, since the towers and structures seem to be built with wisp thicket bamboo

[frosty gate]

There was probably a bigger forest there and they deforested it

[hardy inlet]

how were the deep docks built?

like
who organized it

also what the fuck are the residents

bugs with bells on their heads? or just bugs with bells FOR heads

[sterile jacinth]

Citadel probably

[hardy inlet]

do you think the marrow was there or the far fields was there

[sterile jacinth]

I think these are just helmets to help with the heat or smth, they’re definitely utilitarian. I guess they’re shaped after bells because of the importance of bells and music for the citadel as a whole

[sterile jacinth]

I think it was a big lava pit

[hardy inlet]

does the forge daughter also wear a bell
also why is she so big

[sterile jacinth]

Cause she works for the citadel. She’s big because some bugs get big. You see other big deep docks bugs too

[vestal swan]

Erm magma 🤓

[sterile jacinth]

[hardy inlet]

fair enough

[vestal swan]

I feel like marrow could be already completely stripmined and now it's just a graveyard of big stuff

[sterile jacinth]

That could be the case

[vestal swan]

Take the metal leave the fossils

[sterile jacinth]

I wonder just how much of it is made of pilgrim corpses

[hardy inlet]

wait how the fuck does a BELL protect from heat? like its metal its gonna fucking boil on you!

also how does the marrow have skulls
dont bugs not have those.

[vestal swan]

Insulation and heat resistant material

[vestal swan]

Wdym

[hardy inlet]

those are... skulls, right?

in the marrow
theyre called skull scuttlers

[vestal swan]

Yeah sorta

[desert cloak]

they probably adapted to the heat, the skull is just camouflage

[sterile jacinth]

I just thought they were exoskeletons of long dead bugs

[vestal swan]

Some bugs in universe are squishy and have endoskeletons instead of exoskeletons

[hardy inlet]

no but where does the skull come from

[vestal swan]

But they still have bony heads

[hardy inlet]

hmmmm

[sterile jacinth]

Probably long dead bugs

[vestal swan]

Also the skull scuttlers or whatever are wearing the heads of something that seems to be completely extinct in the area

[hardy inlet]

i do not wanna know what the skull tyrant was
like was that a fucking animal skull?

it very well could be considering theyre bugs

my very accurate calculations show that hornet should be ~5 cm talls so

[sterile jacinth]

It might just have been naturally evolved camouflage

[vestal swan]

Bugs

There's no mammals

[hardy inlet]

i mean like
from the surface

[desert cloak]

im not sure how much info there is on hk bug anatomy, it could be a skeleton but they clearly have shells so they dont need that

[sterile jacinth]

No other evidence of any mammals ever

[desert cloak]

so im thinking it might be ancient masks

[vestal swan]

They're said to be skulls on the hunter journal description aren't they?

[hardy inlet]

does anyone wanna see my stupid calculations on hornets height

[lilac hedge]

All the way to the marrow/deepdocks?

[hardy inlet]

ok

[vestal swan]

We have plenty of examples of skeletons, exoskeletons, completely squishy bugs, and things like jellyfish that are also kind of considered bugs

[abstract rivet]

wrap it up with heights of bugs 🥀

[hardy inlet]

for example

[desert cloak]

im not sure the jellyfish are called bugs, the only descriptions of them is the hunter saying "okay what the fuck is that"

[vestal swan]

Fully squishy

[sterile jacinth]

We have snails too

[vestal swan]

Hornet kills some too

[sterile jacinth]

Tho to be fair snails are also super weird

[desert cloak]

the karakans are pretty interesting too

they have crustacean features and they live underwater (???)

[vestal swan]

Despite there being talks of a river we don't actually see any underwater anything

[sterile jacinth]

They’re still bugs. They also don’t live underwater they just heavily rely on their river

[vestal swan]

And crustaceans are basically just ocean bugs anyway

[sterile jacinth]

That is true

[desert cloak]

i thought the lore on that was clear enough tbh

it like kinda just dried up and their strength was lost

[vestal swan]

None of it's underwater? We don't even actually see any water we see flying fish, no bubbles etc

Having a river would keep them alive yes because a nation needs a water source

[hardy inlet]

how tf do jellyfish in the hollow knight universe fly

[desert cloak]

that part is just extremely confusing

tc loves to just bs some random things in without getting caught

[sterile jacinth]

Who knows. To me it doesn’t feel like something that supposed to be overthought

[lilac hedge]

Yall gotta understand some things dont need lore to happen it just exists

[vestal swan]

This conversation also just made me think, life starts with the ocean, and well we still don't have an explanation for them in the deepest part of both explorable kingdoms we can find what are basically ammonite fossils in the walls.
Karaks are basically caveman that survived forever

[sterile jacinth]

Even the hunter still thinks that the jellyfish are bullshit lol

[desert cloak]

kinda used to it, since the world of it feels immersive enough that you just dont care anymore

[sterile jacinth]

Might have been flooded at one point

[vestal swan]

Random light source higher being:

[sterile jacinth]

What am I gonna fight the sun

[lilac hedge]

I wonder how many time has that quote been said

[sterile jacinth]

Love it. Peak vocal stim

[desert cloak]

its pretty interesting how its never elaborated how higher beings come to exist

except maybe like unn i think

[sterile jacinth]

Yea I think that’s interesting too. I doubt we’re gonna get an answer and it’s just gonna be a vague question that looms over the entire universe

[lilac hedge]

They just do, trying to find the creator of a creator of a creator becomes pointless after a while

[vestal swan]

Unn has no origin either

The only HB with an origin story is TK

[desert cloak]

i think the lore tablets talked about coming from a dream or something

[frosty gate]

That's the mosskin

[vestal swan]

That's how she created her mosskin and green life

"walked from her dream" or smth

Her is unn

[desert cloak]

oh wait yeah

thats kinda rad shes just sleeping and shit and creating stuff

chillest higher being ever like no exploitation

[random harbor]

Lore Tablet: Greenpath - "Green Children"

The Green Children walked from the dream unto these lands.
Here we now shall wait, patient, for the call to return.

@powderedwater_ used /lore-tablets area: Greenpath name: "Green Children"

Lore Tablet: Greenpath - "The greater mind"

The greater mind once dreamed of leaf and cast these caverns so.
In every bush and every vine the mind of Unn reveals itself to us.

@powderedwater_ used /lore-tablets area: Greenpath name: "The greater mind"

[desert cloak]

yes we get it hallowscribe

[slate slate]

Hello,

Would it be wrong to say that Crust King Khann may also have evolved from a little pharlid (just like weavers but instead of silk it's crust essence or something like that)

[vestal swan]

that's incorrect

Mr Krabs was an enemy of the god that raised creatures that way

[lilac hedge]

What the hell is crust essence

[slate slate]

Forget about that his head just looks so much similar to pharlids

[sterile jacinth]

He is not a pharlid. He is a Karaka, which are their own race

Or Karak

[lilac hedge]

His masks looks like one the mask maker would do any day tho

[vestal swan]

Krakians karakans crabs etc

[craggy smelt]

you don't want to know

[stray fog]

Isn't khann a crab

[slate slate]

Wait does enemies have masks

[lilac hedge]

I didnt want to but now i do

[slate slate]

I thought that they were their head man

Terrible eyes ig

[lilac hedge]

You had these two games to visit the guys

[vestal swan]

Depends on the character, most of them that's part of their face

[sterile jacinth]

Doubtful. Hes probably just a bug

[stray fog]

We have crows, jellyfish, and mushrooms so adding crabs wouldn't hurt

[sterile jacinth]

Like how craw are bugs but draw heavy inspiration from crows

Craws are definitely bugs

[vestal swan]

The only things that don't really fall into the bug category are the higher beings and the plants like root/mushroom

[sterile jacinth]

They’re even called crawbugs in some text

[vestal swan]

As weird as they are the birds and the fish are all also bugs

[sterile jacinth]

And the snails

[stray fog]

They're bugs in-game but we all know that they're crows

[sterile jacinth]

Inspired by crows

[slate slate]

I know one thing though he is cool as heck

[stray fog]

They don't have any bug-like features

[sinful nimbus]

Look at their body

[sterile jacinth]

They’re called crawbugs, they have the segmented belly of other bugs, we don’t see any other “bird” things. Their “feathers” are pelts. We see multiple legs. They have antenna

They are bugs

[stray fog]

Ok

[lilac hedge]

What are their beaks then?

[sterile jacinth]

A lot of bugs have a nose like thing like the pinstresses

I don’t have all the answers

[lilac hedge]

Hers looks more like a little nose more than an actual beak but sure

[sterile jacinth]

Metal what are the policies on obvious trolling

Oh they’re gone :P lolll

[sterile jacinth]

They are bugs but there’s pretty much no way to tell what kind

That’s the case with a majority of bugs in both games. I don’t think it’s something to over scrutinize

[desert cloak]

its called a proboscis in bugs

[sterile jacinth]

Trueee

Also sometimes things are just there as a design choice or a creative liberty and you kinda just have to accept it

Do spiders irl look like that? Lmao no

[desert cloak]

i personally think its cool and creative

[sterile jacinth]

Lolll same

[desert cloak]

ari is the best at that tbh, he knows how to make little shaped creatures

i find myself doodling them on papers

[sterile jacinth]

The shapes are really good. I have never really seen a character shaped like lace

[edgy nebula]

allat to be soloed by a yarn ball

[frigid belfry]

hot yarn ball

[ruby osprey]

is the green prince and the mech dancers twins?

[sinful nimbus]

Nah they be lovers

[frosty gate]

Dancer lovers, ||the cogwork one is the soul of his lover||
If you haven't finished the game, don't open that message

[sterile jacinth]

No. They were just born at the same time and presumably looked identical. I seriously doubt that they were related tho

[frosty beacon]

cogwork dancers are designs that were made by cogwork prince, then his soul got infused with the both of them, green prince is the other gay

[ruby osprey]

the other... WHAT

[foggy fractal]

the cogwork dancers contain the soul of green prince's lover
the green prince and his lover were stated to be born apart, so they're just lovers who are similar not twins

[frosty beacon]

they are gays! it's so obvious

[ruby osprey]

so in silksong there are gay bugs.

[frosty beacon]

obviously

[young dune]

yes.

[sterile jacinth]

How far are you? There’s a lot of spoilers here

[foggy fractal]

Hollow Knight (the first game) had gay bugs too

[sinful nimbus]

they're roommates I think

[foggy fractal]

it's not a first

[ruby osprey]

i need to find the 3 musical thingies

[frosty beacon]

leave lore chat pronto vrochacha

[sterile jacinth]

Not the place to ask

[ruby osprey]

alr

[silent pollen]

Wow for once this channel isnt dead

Mythical pull

[frosty gate]

No guys guys, they're clearly twins, you guys are intoxicated by the agenda

[foggy fractal]

this channel is all spoilers allowed and we will tell lore stuff to you straight so if you wish to not get spoiled it's advise you come back later

[sterile jacinth]

Well it’s not always dead. Sometimes there’s heated debates about the same 5 subjects

[silent pollen]

Glowing hornet gotta be one of them

[sterile jacinth]

Source: this is one of the only channels I’m in

[sterile jacinth]

Not as common as you’d think

[frosty gate]

We had PK glazing on my behalf just this morning actually, add that to the bingo

[sterile jacinth]

I’ll join in pk is my tragic goat

[silent pollen]

Pale king deserves all the glaze he can get

[frosty beacon]

no?

that bitch was so evil

sacrificing millions of siblings for what

[silent pollen]

Bro did not see pharloom goveremng

[sterile jacinth]

Is double marking the bingo spot allowed?

[frosty beacon]

just so he accidentally fucks it up at the last minute

[sterile jacinth]

To stop the infection. It was the only way he knew how

[frosty beacon]

ok but like vro

[silent pollen]

Pale king is justified

[sterile jacinth]

He didn’t really have another option

[frosty beacon]

why did you grow attachment to pv

moron

[frosty gate]

I still think he probably was a bit of a douche, but he's alr
The lack of negative shit regarding PK keeps me at bay

[frosty gate]

That's an extent, but I'd say is understandable

[frosty beacon]

bay? pharloom bay mentioned???

[silent pollen]

Crazy

[sterile jacinth]

I think he was kind of neglectful to maybe Hornet and definitely to the vessels but the latter has a very good reason

[frosty beacon]

that still doesn't answer my question

[silent pollen]

Pharloom? Sands of karak? Coral forest dlc?

[frosty beacon]

he knew the exact steps he had to take

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think he tried to

[frosty beacon]

and he tripped over the finish line

[sterile jacinth]

Well I’m sure he tried not to get attached but he did

[frosty gate]

Oh you talking about that

We don't know that's why it failed though

It's more like an interpretation of it, but it's not veridic

[frosty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/im-fucking-pissed-hollow-knight-gif-20376292

[sterile jacinth]

It could also be the case that there was never a truly hollow vessel and his plan was in vain from the start

[silent pollen]

Meanwhile ghost

[frosty beacon]

ghost acid swim is still so confusing to me

[frosty gate]

I agree with it, but we never actually know if his plan was gonna work

[silent pollen]

What?

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t yea. We do know it failed

[frosty beacon]

ghost shows emotion when drowning in acid, showing that they have emotion

[sterile jacinth]

Also the guilt of what he did basically drove him to suicide

[silent pollen]

Crazy

[sterile jacinth]

Imagine doing all of that thinking it’s your only option only to realize that the plan was doomed from the start and your subjects will die anyway

[robust wagon]

Bro what's the point in using this as a point towards emotion when they literally save hornet in silksong 😭

[frosty beacon]

hornet was just the package deal

[frosty gate]

Ghost suceeded on recontaining the infection

[frosty beacon]

wait silksong brick uh

[mild adder]

i think pale king saw that a vessel was needed to get rid of the Radiance, and that it needed the power of the void to do it
and either he knew all the details in which case the story of HK game has been forseen by PK or
more likely
he knew only bits and pieces and was trying to get it to work the best he understood how. which i think is more likely.
either way, he knew it was going to work.

[silent pollen]

I mean since he had some precognition so maybe he knew but still tried

[frosty beacon]

ghost's job was done at that point? idk

[silent pollen]

Bits and pieces?

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah my thought. I think the guilt drove him into isolation and eventually death

[frosty gate]

I actually think his precog is the reason he gave up and left

[mild adder]

imperfect foresight
since the wyrm is inspired by the worms from dune and the foresight from dune
he could have trapped himself in a certain fate like ||Paul|| did in the Dune books.

[sterile jacinth]

That would still fucking sting. Sacrificed all your children for nothing

[frosty beacon]

bro dune is a billion years old ips dune soilers are ok

[silent pollen]

Technicly the weren't children

[sterile jacinth]

They were his children

Not physically children

[frosty beacon]

white lady pumped every single one of those vessels out

[silent pollen]

I mean yes but they weren't really children

[frosty gate]

Imagine you go to sleep with the same dream of shit going to hell but with the slight hope your actions will help, so when you're done, you go to sleep and you dream of the same fucking dream but slightly different

[frosty beacon]

deltarune:

[sterile jacinth]

They definitely started as children. And they’re still pale kings children

[silent pollen]

Started as children

[mild adder]

my interpretation of his shame regarding the abyss grave is that initially he thought they were never going to be people
and the moment he realized, it was not only too late but also he knew for certain it was the only way to save the hallow nest
its why i think both PK and WL are ashamed of it.
I genuinely think they believed they were never going to be people, just advanced bio golems filled with void.

[sterile jacinth]

Yea

[sterile jacinth]

I think this was their hope but I don’t know if they genuinely believed it

[silent pollen]

Yes

[trail wagon]

I mean are we sure he was born in the Coral Tower? Plus even if the water came from the Coral Tower or above it, it's on the same level as the Voltnest

[mild adder]

and the fact that PK actually bonded with HK shows that he wasn't malevolent, but his very nature sabotaged the plan he did everything for.
i genuinely believe that PK did everything in his power to fix something that essentially wasn't his fault.
There is an argument that with his precog he could forsee this entire problem coming from his transformation in the Hallownest but thats debatable.
and the one thing i like that Bardoon says in the game is that the wyrm came to hallownest to die, which can have a double meaning, yes a thing like him transforms into PK but also he might have genuinely come to die in the shape he did in the Game, though while i like that idea, it doesn't really work becuase him and WL clearly work to try to make Hallownest actually a properly eternal prosperous kingdom and realm.

[silent pollen]

Malevolent?

[mild adder]

Do you think the water that flowed through the coral tower came from the place where now water flows in the High Halls?
because thats the only higher place i can remember water specifically flowing down.

and GMS + weavers cut it off at some point to fight the Khan and crustbois

[silk dirge]

yeah they probably realized the same thing hornet realizes about lace

[mild adder]

speaking of lace, she actively needs silk to continue existing no? so basically Hornet is now her sole silk provider.

[silk dirge]

yeah

to be precise eva is carrying lace's life hard

[mild adder]

though actually, there is that one infected weaver we see in Hallownest, sadly Red memory confirms that regardless which ending happened Herah died, so the dreamers croak even if we go with Embrace void ending.
because hornet would remember her face if Herah just woke up due to Ghost Soloing Radiance in God seekers head.

also, i had this thing digging in my head,
The first sinner is still locked up in the slab when hornet visits
which is kinda weird on the timeline.

because the weavers can't really rebel without the First sinner actually spilling the beans, but when they took over they would liberate her wouldn't they? So either First sinner is locked up Intentionally, was just unrepentently hostile to EVERYONE, so they didn't bother rescuing her, or she got locked up after all the weavers left somehow, i sincerely doubt haunted husks could actually wrangle her and then put on weaver seals onto her prison.
like Widow can't weave and use silk anymore so it couldn't be her, i doubt lace knows how to weave silk runes, same with phantom and GMS is alseep.

so the timeline on the first sinner is weird
unless the weavers actually just didn't find her, which would be extremely funny.

[silk dirge]

first sinner was locked up after the rebellion

she has a citadel symbol on her cage

weavers didnt rebel bc of first sinner

they rebelled bc they were slaves to gms

[mild adder]

well yea i just thought that First sinner spilling the beans that they weren't divine and were just silk homonculi from little arachnids was the inciting factor to it all
but i suppose her rebelling against the weavers themselves as well as GMS could make some sense

maybe they locked her up because she was sabotaging their eternal citadel plan and telling the plebian bugs that the weavers were infact not divine messangers of god.

[silk dirge]

yeah

she mightve toppled the whole thing

bc weavers relied on the lie they were divine to keep normal bugs in check

[mild adder]

you know i wonder whether they knew that GMS wanted to make a silk gestalt hivemind or whether thats a recent development in GMS' plans
because imprisoning her like that and utilizing entire's kindom worth of bugs to do it seems extremely radical thing to do just to run away and hope they can make a weaver descendant strong enough to kill her.

[unique canopy]

The main thing that's confusing is that First Sinner is angry specifically against GMS. If the other Weavers were the ones who locked her up then you'd expect her to be angry about that and talk about how she was betrayed by her sisters. So either she was locked up willingly for whatever reason, or the original stone Citadel and initial silk runes were made while GMS was still ruling, and it wasn't until FS was locked away that the Weavers used that same Citadel and silk runes to put her to sleep.

[mild adder]

yea exactly, the timeline on that is rough to put together, atleast for me. though i have played through the game only once so far.

[echo moon]

Wouldn’t the mask maker dialogue imply that the Citadel was made by the Weavers to imprison Silk?

[mild adder]

the way its used now definitely, i think they initially built it for GMS and then repurposed it

[silk dirge]

the yarn ball is post gms imagery tho

[sinful nimbus]

Not so much implied as explicitly stated

[echo moon]

true I was trying to be kind

H: You speak of the Citadel? Its former function has failed, but I can still sense its purpose, some. It is church and cage both.

MM: Aye. Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds. A system, or a web they'd likely call it, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule.

[silk dirge]

it is possible that the weavers while they were building the citadel convinced gms it was a temple to her and then were like oops sorry youre eepy now

[mild adder]

the reason i think the citadel got repurposed rather than built in order to imprison her is her expansion and fighting against the four kingdoms
they needed a base of operations in order to be able to pull that off.

[echo moon]

So the mask maker and Hornet are lying?

[sinful nimbus]

If they did need a base of operations it wasn't the Citadel

[silk dirge]

their bases of operation were probably weavenests

[sinful nimbus]

I don't know why they would need something like that though nor is it clear exactly what was going on with their neighbors

Weavenests are places to conspire against GMS

[silk dirge]

yeah

[echo moon]

Those seem to be made to hide from Silk

[frosty beacon]

why does mushroom say "aye" that's an old irish exclamation, bro is not him

[silk dirge]

i mean it is possible early on they were sort of like weaver homes or some shit idk

but yeah i doubt they had any base of operations

[echo moon]

MM here means Mask Maker lol

[sinful nimbus]

Lot of Pharloomians say that its kinda tuff though

[frosty beacon]

oh brick

yeah nvm mm would say this

why are there 2 "mm" abbreviations that's not very smart on tc's part /silly

[sinful nimbus]

Wait until you find out how many SS abbreviations there are...

[mild adder]

where did i state that?

"Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds***. A system, or a web they'd likely call it***, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule."

this is a very important part
they devised the self sustaining system, which they enacted when they rebelled against GMS

We know that GMS was expanding with the weavers prior to the rebellion, Hornet says as much to the Green Prince when consoling him in the dream that it was either death or subjegation.

i thnk Citadel was originally legit GMS's temple that got repurposed to trap her.

[frosty beacon]

including bad ones

[echo moon]

Its former function has failed, but I can still sense its purpose, some. It is church and cage both.

Aye. Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds. A system, or a web they'd likely call it, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule.

the entire part is important

[unique canopy]

The way I see it is:

1. GMS uplifts Pharlids into Weavers, says they're her divine children (this is explicitly said)
2. Original stone citadel is built, GMS' area is at the very top, original pilgrims are brought in to serve the Weavers while the Weavers serve GMS. Initial silk runes are developed at this time. Weaver effigies start to be made since the original pilgrims are serving them.
3. First Sinner finds out GMS lied to them about being divine, is locked away in the Slab as its first prisoner, other Weavers start planning rebellion from the Weavenests.
4. GMS is eventually put to sleep in her cradle, the Weavers take full control and repurpose the entire Citadel to keep her asleep (what Mask Maker talks about). Widow is the remaining loyalist and has her mask broken and silk bound to prevent her from threatening their plans. Evidence of GMS' existence is destroyed so worship can be directed solely at them.
5. Weavers eventually realize that the Citadel's song won't be enough and GMS will awaken eventually, so they put the Conductors in charge and flee, with a few remaining with the understanding that they will eventually die and have their skills carried on when someone returns to deal with GMS permanently.
6. Under the Conductors, worship is again refocused to remove the Weavers. Remaining stone effigies and spires aren't destroyed, but no future Weaver effigies are made, and the center of worship is changed to be a vague nebulous "divine heart" of the Citadel without describing GMS specifically. Eventually the Citadel becomes more and more gilded as the Conductors abuse their stations; because Weaver worship is no longer a thing, there are no gilded Weaver effigies or shrines, only the remaining stone ones outside the Ciradel from before.
7. Silk experiments happen, allowing GMS to start controlling bugs from her dreams, causing the Haunting.

[echo moon]

It was created as a system to imprison silk

[unique canopy]

Sorry for the wall of text

[frosty beacon]

gms system real! and who says she's not woke

[echo moon]

If it was created as a base first I’d need to see some proof of that.

[sinful nimbus]

Post sealing

[silk dirge]

no way they imprisoned gms??

i cant believe this

[mild adder]

yes its former function, trapping her, this does not dispute a prior function of worship even prior to that

Yes the citadel can be built after putting GMS to sleep but then i doubt it was actually GMS expanding into the four kingdoms and it was the weavers instead.
because i doubt GMS would expand from the cradle without having weavers building anything.
It just logistically doesn't make sense to me.
GMS toppling kindoms only to have weavers build nothing? and weavers then building all the weave nests and the citadel after is weird

it has to be either GMS > Weavers > citadel > conquest > rebellion > Fleeing Pharloom
or GMS > Weavers > Rebellion > Citadel > conquest > Fleeing Pharloom

other combinations don't really work imo
Either weavers soloed 4 kingdoms or GMS + weavers did it.

[frosty gate]

What are we looking at

I've been trynna find Goku

Fr what we fighting now

[mild adder]

Pale prince Zote

[unique canopy]

Not actually evidence because GMS can create the cocoon herself. Hornet calls it her "protective form" and GMS creates a big giant cocoon to try and ward off the void in act 3, it's what Hornet jumps into in order to fight Lost Lace. So this indicates that the big silk cocoon is what GMS naturally is whenever she's asleep of her own volition. The Weavers and their usage of the Citadel was to keep her asleep. And once the Threefold Melody is played and Hornet challenges her in the Cradle, she has no problems breaking out herself.

[silk dirge]

we just making shit up now

[unique canopy]

A big silk cocoon seems a natural enough symbol for a primordial higher being of silk.

[sinful nimbus]

Why would GMS sleeping be the symbol for her rule lmao

[silk dirge]

the silk cocoon used like that is explicitly a symbol of the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

"Sure First Sinner was locked in a Citadel prison and has Citadel iconography specifically about keeping GMS asleep but the Citadel didn't imprison her or anything that's stupid"

[mild adder]

it would make full sense if First sinner wanted to liberate GMS
Which from what iremember, she doesn't

[echo moon]

All I am saying is what is directly provided by the game’s text. “Feelings” aren’t really going to cut it here.
It is outright told to us that the prior function of the citadel was imprisoning silk. The mask maker adds to that by saying “Devised by your ancestors […] a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule.”
While it is entirely possible the weavers did construct some things during these days of conquest we either A. don’t see them, or B. they don’t exist.
So I really want to see evidence of someone stating something that opposes what Hornet and Mask Maker are laying out on silver platter.

[unique canopy]

Never said the Citadel didn't. I said GMS was still nominally in charge of the Citadel at the time. It's the only way to explain why First Sinner solely talks about her. If the other Weavers were the ones who locked her away, why is she not angry at them for doing that?

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing says she's not angry at them

Its said she "raged against the silken lie" the Citadel would be included in that

And GMS being in charge of the Citadel at one point is baseless nonsense

[unique canopy]

Nothing says she is angry at them, everything says she's only angry at GMS.

[silk dirge]

her needolin dialog seems like it could be directed at weavers

[frosty gate]

Oh we doing "Weavers imprisoned FS" again

[sinful nimbus]

Its said she raged against a silken lie the same one the Citadel partook in

[unique canopy]

...She called us daughters... Called us divine... She lied...

"She". Singular. One person. GMS

[sinful nimbus]

Yes GMS is the originator of the lie

[frosty gate]

I hate you got me to agree with this

[mighty parcel]

What's Mottled Skarr's gender?

[frosty gate]

Mott/les

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet calls him a sir

[unique canopy]

There is no "they." There is no plural, she has 11 lines of dialogue and not one single one of them refers to the other Weavers, or anything plural. Only the lie, and GMS who started the lie. There is no evidence she was ever mad at any other Weavers. Why is this the case if the other Weavers sealed her, especially if that happened after GMS was already sealed?

[frosty gate]

Was that written in the Journal or in her cage? Can't remember

[silk dirge]

mr mushroom

[sinful nimbus]

GMS came up with the lie

[frosty gate]

Right

[silk dirge]

this could easily be read as being angry at everyone

[echo moon]

Quickly possibly dumb question

[silk dirge]

also uhh

[echo moon]

Could they citadel not have imprisoned a dead weaver

[silk dirge]

first sinner is first weaver is canon i think

[echo moon]

[frosty gate]

Is the most plausible thing, yes

[silk dirge]

yeah i never saw this needolin dialog of her before

[spark valve]

surely the character whose one trait is rage isn't mad at everyone and it just mad at this one person

[frosty gate]

Why would they?

[echo moon]

Well if she was the first sinner

[unique canopy]

The only plural is "our", indicating she shares the same rage the other Weavers do against GMS. It's not "my rage" directed at both GMS and her sisters even though that would've been incredibly easy to write.

[echo moon]

I’m just throwing stuff at the wall

[silk dirge]

gms refers to herself as "our"

[lone valve]

Would Father of the Flame beat Base Grimm's ass? Cuz why the hell does regular fire damage deal twice as much than redder flames

[silk dirge]

so it could easily be singular

[unique canopy]

Rhetorical question: Is that GMS' dialogue?

[silk dirge]

yes

[sinful nimbus]

???

[silk dirge]

oh wait

im confused as fuck

[sinful nimbus]

Royal our isn't that weird though and Weavers are clearly complacent in the lie

[silk dirge]

what im saying is our is used singularly in silksong

i got really confused what you meant for a second and thought you were asking if gms calling herself our is gms dialog

[unique canopy]

GMS uses the "royal plural" because she's the singular monarch. It's not something the Weavers would use because none of them were ever in that position.

Unless you're arguing First Sinner was named queen after GMS was sealed and the other Weavers rebelled against her again after that? Which would be bizarre.

[sonic scaffold]

its gone

[mild adder]

yes you provided dialogue, and i am talking the logistics of the entire thing and trying to get viable timelines. and one of the potential timelines lines up with what your interpretation is.
i am just trying to figure out the answers to very specific questions and the main question is
was it the GMS that waged war against the 4 kingdoms or The Weavers alone
the dialogue from hornet with the Green Prince in the dream of lost verdania states that she thinks it was GMS, since she specifically states that against A pale being its only subjegation or destruction as options.
So the question remains, if they didn't build the citadel or any form of place of worship for GMS right underneath cradle, why the hell was GMS at all expanding? why dominate if you aren't gonna build anything. It wouldn't even be subjegation at that point just killing for killing sake.

The only main infrastructure in pharloom we see from Weaver/GMS' rule is that of the citadel and the Weave nests

we do not see anything prior that could be considered GMS still active architecture, atleast i don't remember any.

it why i think Gms was expanding, gathering folllowers and worshipers through conquest, then weavers rebelled and repurposed her entire empire into a giant self feeding prison. Rather than putting her to sleep and then building everything up after the fact.

because then weavers would need to have either already conquered the other kingdoms and didn't really built anything and then built all of citadel while keeping GMS asleep
or rebelled and had to simultaneously keep GMS asleep, conquer the 4 kingdoms and build the citadel during or after the fact

and the weavnests to me suggest the citadel got repurposed because they are specifically in far corners of pharloom and Atla and the Abyss nest are specifically so deep they are "out of her sight"
It could be that they built the weavenests during the conquest, but i dunno just doesn't seem functional to me.

[silent pollen]

I know

But dream version I gotta cope

[sonic scaffold]

Its all gone... only way they can make this actually playable is if they actually make those memories more fleshed out

[silent pollen]

Like verania

[sonic scaffold]

yeah you could say that

maybe in a future update

they had 7 years to do this so maybe not

[fringe hemlock]

im just toying with the idea rn
how lifeblood got to pharloom.
So Prof. Xylotol..Xylon...Walter White says he found it in salty sea on the edge of pharloom, and alot of people assume this is the pooptown that was cut from the trailer. however, i beleive it is actually the area that later becomes fleatopia. Weavnest Murglin has a weaver relic that says "Sister, spider, sat between salt and stone" so we know that the area of bilewater was once salt water. water that would go have come from the fleatopia area. but how would life blood have made its way into those water? all the way from Hallownest? perhaps its tracked in on the foot of one of its former residents, Mr. Mushroom! who was unaware of his hitchicker as the mushrooms are shown to have some natural resistance to the Radiance, it wouldnt be a stretch to say they say resistance extends to other infections, such as that of the lifeblood

[abstract rivet]

WAIT I fucking realized Sealed Vessel has Dies Irae in it in 1:27 timestamp

its been there.. the whole time?

[sonic scaffold]

I dunno, Pharloom Bay could be out there

[frosty gate]

She didn't conquer the 4 Kingdoms, she just push them back from what we know. But the weavenest thing you say does give Time line Data, thanks for that

[mild adder]

like for me it makes more sense that the weavnests were built as tiny hidden hideouts in a big empire for the weavers to collude their rebellion in
not bases built after they already put her to sleep

[timber pond]

The thing you overlook is that that tablet in the weavenest has assets for a location we have not seen before, like Seaweed. Nothing exactly suggests the pale lake is quite saltwater

[frosty gate]

Isn't the entire thing full of Salt Rocks?

[fringe hemlock]

yeah

[frosty gate]

Purified Ducts

[fringe hemlock]

its the same rocks in fleatopia

[timber pond]

Those might be volcanic in nature.

[edgy nebula]

the salt-stricken waters line is probably just a leftover line from before bay got scrapped

[silk dirge]

nah i think its dlc

[timber pond]

There's a video on the games geology that suggests its a kind of Bassalt or cooled magma

[silk dirge]

there is no way lifeblood spire was in a map from august and they just cut it that late

[timber pond]

Not just the rocks

[silk dirge]

nothing gets cut that late unless its like dlc

[edgy nebula]

the rocks look like craftmetal to me

[silk dirge]

why doesnt hornet break all of them to make more tools is she stupid

[edgy nebula]

truthnuke

[timber pond]

Yeah exactly. Alot of that "shape" is made near heat or in intense heat over along period

[frosty gate]

This whole thing falls apart considering that the Weavers lured people from the surface and that the Sentinels were made to bring people to the Citadel

[edgy nebula]

better yet why doesnt hornet sell them to get rich, there's a total of 8 craftmetals in silksong, rarest metal ever

[fringe hemlock]

areas in trailers getting cut and then never seen again wouldnt be new for hallow knight

[timber pond]

Its from magma that cooled a long time ago

[fringe hemlock]

hollow*

[silk dirge]

lifeblood spire wasnt in a trailer

[frosty gate]

GMS probably had no Citadel herself

[edgy nebula]

rest in piss big charging guy

[silk dirge]

it was in a map of pharloom from august of this year at acmi

[random aspen]

in hollow knight they just ran out of money and time

in silksong they have infinite time and money so cut content is probably just cut forever

[timber pond]

I don't really belive that , i just think its repurposed

[frosty gate]

No really, there's a chance they just couldn't fit those things in the regular game so they will expand it

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong is also rushed slop

[mild adder]

the people could have been lured by the weavers at any point tbh. i don't really see how sentinels make anything fall apart?
the sentinels were bringing people in, protecting them and when the second sentinel wakes up he starts fighting Haunted husks, so he clearly is the creation of the weavers like the choruses, the architects and so on.

[sinful nimbus]

They had infinite time but they felt the need to get it out sooner anyway because ???

[random aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/the-incredibles-syndrome-buddy-pine-discord-reddit-gif-1954320315783291994

[mild adder]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[frosty gate]

Aren't you trying to prove that GMS lured people into the Citadel

[sinful nimbus]

Also Sharpe is coming back be fr

[foggy fractal]

they wanted to, that's all it boils down to lmao

[foggy fractal]

how about the two dungeons 😔

[edgy nebula]

AND lion village, AND those two dungeons we didnt get

[sinful nimbus]

I mean at the end of the day its their decision ofc but I do think it hurt the quality of the final product

[random aspen]

why would they cut something thats been developed just to readd it later something like coral gorge i feel like is just never ever coming and they'd rather add new things in dlcs

[mild adder]

well at the time she would rule her domain the weavers would still be on her side. because they did serve her for indeterminate amount of time until rebellion. They were her primary intermediaries

[silk dirge]

lifeblood spire im confident on coming back

[sonic scaffold]

its a kickstarter character , I think it is

[edgy nebula]

always bet on coral gorge dlc

[fringe hemlock]

it looks like the original Weavenest Murglin had kelp vines that were removed in the final game, so it not like they forgot it was there
it was probably meant to be in the bay area. the fact it was completly retooled makes me question the chances of the bay coming in future

[frosty gate]

Because it doesn't fit the way the game was going so they want to repurpose it

[mild adder]

also i am not trying to prove anything i am just trying to sort things out in a way that makes most sense.

[random aspen]

we have verdania, what was stopping them from making coral gorge lead to the tower

in the memory thing

[mild adder]

we have a very tiny spot of verdania

[frosty gate]

Am I TC?

[random aspen]

dumb argument

im saying theres really nothing stopping them from putting coral gorge in khans memory

[frosty gate]

Nothing that we know of

[random aspen]

because we literally have verdania

[echo moon]

Cut content could be repurposed and repackaged into a DLC. No one is saying it will, but it absolutely could.

[frosty gate]

A very small spot of Verdania

[sonic scaffold]

yeah :D

[random aspen]

they could do that with coral gorge 😭

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing stops them from doing anything I don't really get the point of the discussion

[mild adder]

Remember, if anything got dropped on the cutting room floor it means the project was rushed.
its not like big protions of projects that have already been made do regularly get cut and remade
when people write novels the first draft usually does not resemble the final version at all.

[echo moon]

right

[foggy fractal]

true

[sonic scaffold]

REMINDER that the Bee hive had no boss at the first release of hollow kinght

[fringe hemlock]

Grimm troupe 2 febuary 2026 lets go

[sonic scaffold]

[sinful nimbus]

Well they cut all the cool stuff so yeah that's a bit disappointing also Act 3 is a noticeable step down in quality and has nonsensical rewritten lore so I would describe the game as deeply rushed yes

[random aspen]

and didnt add a bench to compensate 🥀

[sinful nimbus]

[mild adder]

very good quality bait man, gave me a laugh

[frosty gate]

Well, it seems this is my time to step out, good luck dealing with this yall

[sonic scaffold]

act 3? step down?

[random aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/jerry-laughing-gif-3676435433606054883

[frosty gate]

It unfortunately, isn't bait, yall got to deal with the consequences

Good luck

[sinful nimbus]

Thanks TwisTriker you always have my back

[limpid summit]

Regardless of whether you consider SS act 3 bad or not it is undeniably rushed because a game that evolves from DLC shouldn’t need DLC itself

There was no point to not include Sharpe and the steel assassins

[frosty gate]

At this point I just know I'm not dealing with this argument cus it's your opinion and I rather not want to fight this again

[sonic scaffold]

it isnt a dlc because its free

its an expansion

[limpid summit]

I do like most of act 3 though

[mild adder]

i can live in whichever reality i want, and in my reality its pure bait

[vestal swan]

Tell me you don't know how game development works without telling me you don't know how game development works

[silk dirge]

i mean like i think its fine to kinda rush that bc like

is tc fr gonna wait to fully develop steel city

[sinful nimbus]

No worries I'm just joshing

[random aspen]

downloadable content

[limpid summit]

Yeah free dlc is still dlc

[silk dirge]

to release silksong

[foggy fractal]

who is josh ?

[frosty gate]

I thought if I ignored it everyone else would honestly

[sonic scaffold]

oh my bad

[sinful nimbus]

First name Josh last name Ing

[foggy fractal]

ohhhhhhhh

[silk dirge]

like i think if tc really wanted to go the route of fully adding everything they wouldve need to overhaul their communication strat

you cant be silent for a decade and expect it go well

thats like basic marketing 101

[sinful nimbus]

I was chill with the communication because less teasers is less spoilers

[sonic scaffold]

ok this is the bait

[silk dirge]

i think they shouldve just not revealed so much so soon

[sinful nimbus]

The marketing does uh lie a bit though 🥴

[limpid summit]

I think the phantom leak was the woest part

The other stuff was fine

[sinful nimbus]

The Phantom leak made her look so much worse than she was in-game 😭

[vestal swan]

The game is out you cannot still be bitching about communication, you paid for it you have it now be quiet

[sinful nimbus]

At least we got Kitsune theory out of it

[foggy fractal]

we should sue TC 🤔

[limpid summit]

You’re right

[mild adder]

me making fun of the dude that claimed the game is rushed is the bait?
wot?

[silk dirge]

i mean im just saying if they wanted to develop silksong for a few more years then staying silent is probably not a good option

[limpid summit]

We shouldn’t be bitching some dude paid $100 for his character to be delayed 10 years

[sonic scaffold]

oh my bad im autistic

[mild adder]

np pookie

[sinful nimbus]

I don't see what harm would really come from going silent for a few more years

Beyond mildly inconveniencing a few fans

[sonic scaffold]

Duke nukem forever:

[mild adder]

there is also the fact that eventually you do just want to be done with the project

[sonic scaffold]

Not everything is perfect sometimes

[sinful nimbus]

Which is their decision I'm just saying it impacted the quality of the game

[limpid summit]

Star speaks for EVERYONE here

[mild adder]

tbh for me silksong was the best game released this year tbh. like without a contender so i am satisfied

[sonic scaffold]

the thing is , the game is out

[limpid summit]

I loved the game a ton

[vestal swan]

Half the time star doesn't even speak for star

[limpid summit]

Just wish sharpe was innnn

[silk dirge]

like all im saying the start probably was dont reveal so much so early and spread all those teasers throughout development

wouldve made it a lot better imo

[sinful nimbus]

I speak for the roots

The teasers don't matter cuz they cut everything anyway 🥱

[silk dirge]

yeah yeah no one cares about the gloom except you lol

[sonic scaffold]

💀 ??? Hornet was already planned they were already teasing since kickstarter???

[sinful nimbus]

I can with without the gloom

I can't live without Barnacle Bay or Coral Gorge...

[silk dirge]

shrue

[vestal swan]

Planned as a playable character

[mild adder]

the Valve/Fromsoft approach of "be dead silent until shortly prior to release" does function well

[sonic scaffold]

Yeah thats what I meant my bad

[sinful nimbus]

Verdania also doesn't really live up to its potential

[vestal swan]

I wasn't sure if you were asking or telling lol

[foggy fractal]

they cut bugpipers 💔 💔

[edgy nebula]

do we think karak fell pre-gold citadel, post-gold citadel, or like somewhere inbetween

[sonic scaffold]

Yeah I was editing my message and fixing the context

[limpid summit]

The phantom hearts was such a loss 💔

[sinful nimbus]

ok but wtf even were those

[vestal swan]

Pre, they were said to have a hold on half of the region so a lot of what is currently high halls is probably theirs and more

[random aspen]

remember who we lost

[silk dirge]

organs that sleep

[vestal swan]

This was buns

[foggy fractal]

the organ sleepers ?

[sonic scaffold]

we got bell beast

[random aspen]

this was buns and its just that sign and like 2 lines of dialogue

[edgy nebula]

oh yeah i never thought of it that way, what about crustcrags since theyre kind of a paradox?

[vestal swan]

I agree with cutting the spider elevator it does not make sense with the rest of the game

[limpid summit]

Maybe representative of GMS’s desire to control areas and then discard them

[sinful nimbus]

Bell Beast doesn't cut it

[limpid summit]

Okay wait Star

[sinful nimbus]

TUFF

[silk dirge]

i will not tolerate bell beast hate

[limpid summit]

When do YOU think Phantom and Lace were created and why was Phantom discarded

[sonic scaffold]

Team cherry still only made 2 games guys

[limpid summit]

Bell beast is tuff

[sinful nimbus]

0/2 not really a good track record for great games

[limpid summit]

It just doesn’t make mechanical sense that it lacks NDD

[silk dirge]

god forbid fast travel be a cute dog instead of talking horse

[edgy nebula]

bell beast is so weird

[sonic scaffold]

[sinful nimbus]

uuuuuuuuuuuujh

[vestal swan]

We need a better abbreviation because my brain stutters trying to read that

[timber pond]

We will see. I have heard they were reworking files related to the bay in patches so idk.

[edgy nebula]

it isnt even explained, why is it there, the fuck is it

[sinful nimbus]

Pre-Citadel

[foggy fractal]

how about hungry knight

[edgy nebula]

the last stag had loads of lore, bell beast has nothing

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom wasn't loyal or aged or something dorky

[vestal swan]

Wdym? The crust plants? I think they're just an invasive species that's hard to kill off and doesn't need a bunch of water

[sonic scaffold]

who is Phantom why is everyone grieving for it

[edgy nebula]

the big crustcrawlers found in the memorium

[silk dirge]

ok yeah bell beast ndd would probably be good

also fayforn ndd

[random aspen]

worms in wormways

[sinful nimbus]

Bell Beast's lack of NDD proves its a Skynx

[edgy nebula]

present day karak has no crustcrawlers, so them being there is weird

[limpid summit]

Dude NDD works

NeeDolin Dialogue

[vestal swan]

Nnndede

[limpid summit]

And it sounds like DND

[foggy fractal]

DEDEDE

[silk dirge]

neurodivergent dialog

(this channel)

[limpid summit]

Tipp and phil

[sinful nimbus]

Bell Beast genuinely has nothing 💔

[limpid summit]

No it’s a Root

[sinful nimbus]

Lazy dog that conks out IMMEDIATELY after you leave the room for 5 seconds

[vestal swan]

Just one of those examples of something that does better in captivity, like raccoons.
They also got way bigger if we're still talking about the same creature

[silk dirge]

god forbid a dog wants to rest 💔

[limpid summit]

Well it does pack up Nasty Freak

[silk dirge]

never let star have a pet

[limpid summit]

Sorry “Bell Eater”

[random aspen]

hasan piker

[limpid summit]

Hornet shockingly uses voltvessels on sleeping bell beast

[edgy nebula]

do you think watcher at the edge made his coral furm pet wear a voltvyrm collar

[vestal swan]

Voltvesels suck

Furm? Huh?

[timber pond]

Also I agree with @silk dirge they probably had strung to serve ad weaver queen along with twisted root as the main endings in 2023 and then realized "dang we forgot the good ending!" And that's what the 2 years in development were for and some reworking.

[sinful nimbus]

I'd actually lose it

[vestal swan]

I think that would be hilarious because star would explode

[sinful nimbus]

Almost as bad as the theory that Act 3 is a repurposed Silksoul mode

Bad as in awful not implausible

[edgy nebula]

coral furms are very cool, they expand crustnut lore and it's nie

[silk dirge]

yeah

[timber pond]

Well to be fair. I would not have liked the "true ending" to be weaver queen. Not that it isn't conclusive its just kinda dosent leave the franchise on a good note.

[sinful nimbus]

Well yes

[silk dirge]

i think they were probably developing and were like "oh fuck this is not a good ending at all"

[sinful nimbus]

But if they didn't design the game with the true ending in mind that'd be kinda 🥴 from a gameplay and lore perspective

And True Ending is 🥴 from a lore and especially gameplay perspective sooo

[timber pond]

I don't think team cherry are "architect" type artists. They are Gardeners really

[edgy nebula]

ts so tuff

[lone folio]

Guys we might need to do a true ending.. QUICK BRING BACK THE KNIGHT AND MAKE IT VERY HARD TO TELL IF ETV OR DNM IS CANON, good job guys we absolutely cooked now we can start development on the dlc that will come out on November 17th 2037

-Team cherry probably

[timber pond]

I mean it ain't that simple lol. They had to consider the as above so below parallel dichotomy that its got going on from the first game

Also they just seem like they go with the flow Ala "Gardeners " not "architects" who plan out every little detail.

They let the details come from the questions the art presents

[sonic scaffold]

everyone in here is grieving for locations that were shown and promised, but do we really know why they were cut?
Devs said they were expanding and adding more content so I pray

[timber pond]

Coral gorgeous might be gone perhaps

[sonic scaffold]

only if they expand the boss area from coral tower

[lone folio]

Eh

[timber pond]

But like all the NPCS, boss fight(s?) Chracters and areas Are GONE from the game without a trace

[random aspen]

how do you even access it when khann is disintegrated

[timber pond]

So they could litteraly be recontexualized anywhere

[edgy nebula]

you cant access the coral tower dream anymore after you kill khann

[sonic scaffold]

uh yeah you can only access until the guy is gone

[timber pond]

White palace was also inaccessible before grim troupe TBF

[random aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/mcmahon-crying-he-was-special-wwe-vince-mcmahon-gif-13313547165599993551

[edgy nebula]

for dlc it's possible we could travel into the memories of the karaka soldiers or something

[random aspen]

maybe just needolin one of the random karak soldiers

or they make the random ass ledge near the tower actually lead somewhere if ykyk

[sonic scaffold]

😢 this is so sad we will never have the beutiful coral field

[edgy nebula]

evil menacing random ass ledge

[timber pond]

They cood do the broodmother thing where khann becomes tiny rock kahnn

[sonic scaffold]

only if they mod it

[random aspen]

yea it was cut

[sonic scaffold]

:) the community exists

[lone folio]

I found it once wondered about it and then forgot

[edgy nebula]

alas, the shamans say theyre the last successors of pharloom's power, so we dont get reborn baby khann

[sonic scaffold]

yeah sands of Karakk is a tribute to a lost grand place

it feels poetic even

[random aspen]

imagine we say all this and dlc never happens 🤩

[sonic scaffold]

Yeah it would make sense the coral field never happening

[random aspen]

dlcs as a whole

[sonic scaffold]

I mean devs mentioned it happening

[edgy nebula]

as much as i want coral gorge, probably wotn happen

[sonic scaffold]

they have more ideas to expand

[random aspen]

can we even trust tcs word

[sonic scaffold]

I mean why not

they made the game

[random aspen]

yeah im 99% sure we getting dlc

[sonic scaffold]

hollow knight had a lot of things missing in its humble begginings

[silk dirge]

can they atleast remove those ledges tho 😭

[edgy nebula]

most of the hk dlcs were general expansions, focusing on new bosses and new mechanics, so as much as i want it, coral dlc prolly ove

[random aspen]

ari said something about silksong not having godhome but that was 5 years ago maybe the game then had like 7 bosses

ok nice number 7 key randmly just nt work

[timber pond]

Larkin mentioned he's doing a few songs for team chery while he gets ready for Moonlighter 2s release in his interview last week iirc

[sonic scaffold]

Theres so many places that feel like it would be an entrance xd even at hollow knight

[random aspen]

oh alright god bless larkin

[sonic scaffold]

[random aspen]

doing more work than leth

[edgy nebula]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXxHFrpoVJU&pp=ygUUY29yYWwgZ29yZ2Ugc2lsa3Nvbmc%3D this is so good

[timber pond]

So we probably get DLC 1 towards the end of this year or early next

[random aspen]

i can wait 💔

i think we can all wait 😭

[timber pond]

If you haven't noticed its been repurposed as Festival of the fleas theme

[edgy nebula]

yeah

[random aspen]

@christopherlarkin give nyleth her own theme

[edgy nebula]

still flames though, especially imagining it in karak

[sonic scaffold]

as always Team cherry doing good songs

I loved how dark silksong songs were at some parts

reminded me a lot of fable

[random aspen]

i think a lot of bosses should have their own themes but dont

unravelled and first sinner

and ofc nyleth i already mentioned

[timber pond]

I think the theme is Nyleths theme moreover than Seth's theme

You just associate it with Seth because you hear it first

[random aspen]

and also it fits him more

[edgy nebula]

yeah the theme is literally called nyleth

[random aspen]

change the song name to seth and then give nyleth her own

also seth gets to have the more calm part of the song

iirc nyleth only gets the intense second phase part

its just kinda awkward hearing the same song 2 times in a row

thats why khann is good cus his theme is different from the tower theme its more intense

[edgy nebula]

i wish seth got expanded more, a super sad mellow song doesnt really make sense for the character tc gave him

[unique canopy]

Something something reused music is intentionally diegetic to show that Seth's will had been replaced as a servant of Nyleth and nothing more, and taking Nyleth's heart allows Seth to become his own person

[random aspen]

i wanted to refrain from mentioning it but the guy who made seth (who is also named seth) died from cancer which is probably why the song sounds sad

[timber pond]

Meh I think he's fine as Reverse Quirrel

[random aspen]

also why i think it fits him more

and changing seths theme instead of nyleths just feels weird seth isnt even tc character

[timber pond]

To be fair, we know jack about Nyleth

So i cant really judge if it fit nyleth or not

[edgy nebula]

yeah of course, good tribute, tc did well with it, it just doesnt make sense for his character and would be really weird to hear if you didnt know the story behind his creation

[lone folio]

I feel like Seth could of been much more

[random aspen]

or they couldve made seths song the calm one and then once you get to nyleth it gets intense

but i just prefer it if nyleth gets her own cus seth basically own it

[lone folio]

I don't like him that much honestly, he appears in like three spots has a pretty alright boss fight and has the worst memento to get

[random aspen]

im sure seth goldman wouldve let tc do whatever with his character but maybe tc felt weird doing so much with a character without being able to ask the person who made it

[lone folio]

That's fair

[echo moon]

They already did more with Seth than most bosses

[random aspen]

also i think the boss fight is great

[timber pond]

They set him up to be much more. He can do anything in the world and live forever through it. I think that was the point.

Also he appears in 4

Gremoor, shellwood ,outside of the grand gate and then fleatopia

You can skip the grand gate interaction though

[dawn sluice]

i wish trobbio could’ve gone to fleatopia

[lilac hedge]

Bro i dont wanna play those flea socres ever again

[dawn sluice]

seth can now practice in fleatopia

in order to keep your reward, you must beat him every saturday

speaking of seth, what lore did his creator give

how much did team cherry expand on that

[foggy fractal]

I don't think we have anything besides the post he made on reddit about it and the sketch

as well as the reveal and all

[foggy fractal]

is second sentinel the only instance of a character having 3 fingers

[vestal swan]

Why did you have to ask that question

I'm pretty sure more exist but because you asked nobody's ever going to find them

[foggy fractal]

why is no one gonna find them because I asked, did I curse them or smth

[fossil ledge]

GMS also has three fingers

[foggy fractal]

she has 4

[fossil ledge]

You're right, but in her normal fight she appears to have just three

[muted lantern]

also like why does her ripped off arm seem to have silk pouring from the wound, is even the black part of her body made of silk?

[sinful nimbus]

The black part of her body is void

Void consumed silk

Except her mask

[fossil ledge]

Also her hands

Phantom also has a black head

White part seems to be a mask

[fossil ledge]

Just appears that way though, in other angles she has four fingers

Given you mostly see three and she has three needles on either side, I figured it was three, but it's four she has

[muted lantern]

The black just seems to be her body without any silk on it, considering she still has some thread coiled around her, her body just seems to be threadbare because she expended so much. shes called silk starved beast in the abyss.

[humble peak]

no it's not she's just naked

[muted lantern]

Im going to assume the "gms is void" thing is a bait tho

[sinful nimbus]

Nah

She is literally entirely thread

[muted lantern]

notice the last sprite the body is darkening with the thread stripped away lol

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[muted lantern]

under the face where it was pure white before

its way darker

[humble peak]

at that point her body is more unwraveled than we see in the abyss

[sinful nimbus]

OK but there is clearly no black body underneath

[fossil ledge]

I'm not really sure what to think. Cause on the one hand she has black parts like her face and hands, also Phantom's head, so it could be silk. Yet in the void sea she appears to have some silk coiled around her, suggesting it might just be her body. Yet when Hornet is binding her, it's all white silk in both instances. Maybe it's covered in void while she's in the void sea?

[sinful nimbus]

HK fans are actually blind 😭

Its a lighting thing