sk-lore

[sinful nimbus]

That's baseless

[stray fog]

If they were losing, he would join
If they were winning, they were winning anyway so no problem

[unique canopy]

Anything about the battle, other than Ogrim was there, is speculation. It's all equally baseless.

[stray fog]

Why wouldn't the pale king join

He wouldn't let his kingdom die

[sinful nimbus]

He obviously wouldn't send 5 random dudes to fight a literal deity

[unique canopy]

Pale King, with his Monarch Wings, is one of the silhouettes in White Defender's arena background

[sinful nimbus]

So

He's their king

[unique canopy]

Nothing prevents a king from throwing hands, especially if said king is also likely more powerful than all of the knights combined

[stray fog]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

But that's baseless

I agree he was strong but he's not indicated to have been involved in any of the battles

And the great knights frankly would've been inconsequential in a fight with a god

[stray fog]

That's why I'm saying that the pale king would have joined the battle

[sinful nimbus]

So why are they there in the first place

And why is a conflict between two deities not hinted at anywhere else besides this throwaway line

[stray fog]

No idea tbh

[sinful nimbus]

Why are these deities squabbling in the first place its not like wyrm kingdoms interact much

[unique canopy]

None of the other battles were either, because they were long passed

[sinful nimbus]

Yes presumably because they didn't involve uh gods

[stray fog]

So whats the conclusion?

[sinful nimbus]

the Battle of the Blackwyrm did not involve the five literally fighting another wyrm

[stray fog]

But white defender remembers it

[sinful nimbus]

Does White Defender only remember wyrm related things?

[stray fog]

?

[sinful nimbus]

How does white defender remembering the battle indicate what was inside the battle

I'm not saying the battle didn't exist I'm saying it wasn't him scrapping with a wyrm

[stray fog]

The line sounds like he was in that battle

[sinful nimbus]

Yes?

[stray fog]

So he was in the battle

[sinful nimbus]

I didn't say he wasn't involved in the battle

[stray fog]

Oh

I Just read this message

My bad

So the battle of the blackwyrm was not against a wyrm?

[vestal swan]

No

[cedar skiff]

team cherry resisting their urges to add yet another worm adjacent category

voltvyrm is legitemately ridiculous tp

[heavy gyro]

Voltvyrm are just worms

They just have a weird name

[vestal swan]

Wurmdrake: steel gatekeeper coming up

[cedar skiff]

were getting vvyrm next

wait yes wurm is a good one

[edgy nebula]

and then vvvyrm

i wonder what the purpose of voltvyrm/voltnest was in karak

[cedar skiff]

the place in mount fay is interesting to me too

[vestal swan]

To eat stuff that wandered in

Didn't seem like they were harnessing the electricity

[edgy nebula]

probably yeah

[cedar skiff]

wait are the citadel gondolas in mount fay there because the citadel was intending to harvest the magnetite there?

[edgy nebula]

i think we see voltvyrm holes/nests in the squirrm room

[heavy gyro]

Squirrm wyrm

[sinful nimbus]

cooking

[cedar skiff]

i mean they were fucking with voltnest too

[edgy nebula]

the sqwyrrm

[cedar skiff]

how did they even get any of that to the memorium

[edgy nebula]

looks like it to me atleast

[cedar skiff]

i think those might just be tiny judge nestws

[vestal swan]

The only interaction we know of is that they had some kind of relationship with the bird, , like a paying respects kind of thing or visiting it for feathers or something. Maybe because it also sings
Doesn't really seem like a mining operation was happening

[cedar skiff]

i thought fayforn was just the weavers

[vestal swan]

I mean yeah but, do you want to climb up all that way every time? Build transportation

We didn't see a silk teleporter so

[edgy nebula]

question, is the most agreed on theory that the river in karak froze?

[cedar skiff]

i mean they clearly seem to have their own ways up i think this was discussed

[edgy nebula]

then what is

[cedar skiff]

because you have both citadel shit and then the weaver lamps

[vestal swan]

They diverted the water for machinery, that makes the most sense

[cedar skiff]

ooh thats fun

[vestal swan]

The giant icy mountain was likely always a giant icy mountain, with the weird crystals that reform themselves not being regular ice it doesn't make sense for it to be the source of the river

[edgy nebula]

we dont have enough evidence to fully pinpoint karak died during the citadel's reign

actually humm nevermind

it's possible but we dont know how khann wouldve died other than lack of water

[sinful nimbus]

Its said to have dried up iirc?

[edgy nebula]

i don't think it's ever explicitly stated anywhere actually, i just think the community took the idea and ran with it

[vestal swan]

I don't remember anything actually saying what happened to the river, just the lines about them having one in the past

[sinful nimbus]

yeah its not in the lore tablets

[vestal swan]

That doesn't look right, what's wrong with that sentence

[edgy nebula]

we dont know how they died but there being no water is kinda obvious and is what the community kinda took

[cedar skiff]

i mean geographically itd make sense for the water to have come from mount fay somehow

[edgy nebula]

since khann likely died/got incredibly weak pre-citadel i honestly think the water just froze

maybe he died from other causes and the citadel stole the water when he had died but we dont have any evidence of that

[cedar skiff]

the concept of the citadel shutting down the river to dry out karak on purpose

[sinful nimbus]

Mt Fay isn't really part of the sittydel though which seems to be the cause of karak's plight

[cedar skiff]

would be just awesome if we had more evident citadel eco terrorism

[sinful nimbus]

Also that would mean Fayforn killed Karak and I don't fw that Fayforn is nice

[edgy nebula]

what if the memory crystal cluster where you get the tool used to be karak water and the reason the river was worshipped was because it was memory water

[vestal swan]

Mt fay is just like pre citadel place to go visit the bird, a tourist attraction almost

Also yeah it wouldn't make sense for Fay to be on the citadel side and then against them

Yeah I'll help you crush this nation, actually I don't like you anymore I'm going to give this spider wings

[cedar skiff]

i mean like its not like the bird can do shit if the citadel just puts a comically large cork on where the water is coming from i say

but theres no evidence anything like that happened so i guess we have to wait for the old hearts dlc

[edgy nebula]

i doubt the citadel did anything, if they cant kill seth they cant kill khann's army

[sinful nimbus]

Seth...

[fading whale]

Mask maker seemed kinda surprised that the bird was opposed.to the citadel for some reason

[vestal swan]

There's no giant comically large cork though, the buildings that are there don't really scream "blocking up the water" and while there's not really a timeline for these three events I feel like visiting the bird is older because it was something the weavers did when everything was peaceful

[edgy nebula]

but they can capture hornet cause her plot armor is shit

[cedar skiff]

yeah ik just crackpotting here but i definetly think this is something that dlc will actually answer if tc lock in

[edgy nebula]

i think karak fell pre-citadel due to gms and the citadel got the water from somewhere else, maybe melting the ice in mt. fay

[vestal swan]

Tc, lock in?

[edgy nebula]

oh moooderators!

[sinful nimbus]

CRYPTO 🤑

[brave yoke]

I need help with the Mask Maker lore. 1. Is it stated anywhere WHY Mask Makers keep making masks and giving them away? IIRC in SS they mention some pact/contract that forces them to do that? Do they work for someone specific? Or is this completely unknown? 2. Why does the MM in SS sit all the way in Mount Fay that's completely inaccessible for normal people? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to be somewhere in the middle of the map, so that anyone can come in and take a mask? Is there any explanation for that? 3. Do we know if e.g. ants can make masks on their own, or do literally all masks in the world come from MMs?

[cedar skiff]

grok generate me one million dollars

[vestal swan]

Can you unspoiler tag it and stop editing it

[edgy nebula]

is this agreeable

[cedar skiff]

i mean mask maker in hollow knight is also kinda inaccesible for the average bug

[vestal swan]

Kind of hard to read when it keeps going back to being spoiled

[sinful nimbus]

1. Unknown 2) Unknown 3) Masks can come from anyone they also can refer to faces/skulls

[brave yoke]

sure, thanks : )

[fading whale]

It's not like he's accessible to commoners in hollow knight either

[brave yoke]

I mean specifically the masks that we know are infused with some kind of Soul spell, either by MMs or e.g. PK.

[edgy nebula]

the masks mask maker makes seem to be different from bone masks, since theyre carved from a weird material and are painted with lacquer

[fresh kraken]

so does hornet's life kinda end in edning 1?

[edgy nebula]

specifically pale lacquer

[sinful nimbus]

Ancient Masks also appear to use soul and those were made by the Ancient Civilization

[cedar skiff]

maybe masks by mask makers just are for the bourgeoisie priviliged bugs

[vestal swan]

I would say for three he relies on the very good delivery people and special orders
The rest is unknown

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm Troupe makes similar masks too

[unreal estuary]

They also appear to have some kind of mind-granting or altering power compared to bone masks, since the one in Hollow Knight says that it helps to 'define, focus, and exist'

[edgy nebula]

oh yeah the masks hornet uses are also made from pale ore, which could be what the mask maker masks are from, maybe

[fresh kraken]

is troupe master grimm and nightmare king having a connection to weavers?

[vestal swan]

Those are most likely the creation of a God so that's not really comparable

[brave yoke]

Wait, Ancient Masks?

[unreal estuary]

Unlikely

[cedar skiff]

i feel like the only ones who would actually be able to go see silksongs mask maker are the weavers who already fucked around on mt fay

[sinful nimbus]

Mask shards n stuff

[vestal swan]

Health upgrades, basically ancient tough masks used to increase people's durability

[cedar skiff]

like maybe they really just only offer their service to special bugs

[brave yoke]

Wait, how do we know that? o_O

[sinful nimbus]

Pogopilled theories in the big '25 ❤️‍🩹

[edgy nebula]

the description of the masks she has when she gets them all

[brave yoke]

Ohh, so you're saying Mask Shards come from the Ancient Civilisation? Neat!

[vestal swan]

None at all

[sinful nimbus]

The mask shard pedestals match their architecture

Same with soul vessels

[vestal swan]

Most likely

[cedar skiff]

never forget that one snail shamans ancient mask dreads

[unreal estuary]

Spool fragments too, though those were likely made by the Weavers

[brave yoke]

In HK, or in SS too? I honestly don't remember

[vestal swan]

Nobody else has ever claimed to be their maker and there's nobody else around who looks responsible for it

[fresh kraken]

though, silksong menu theme and hk's grimm troupe menu theme are almost same if u delete the needle. also that one tool which makes your backwards running faster is same as grim's retreat animation. Plus, reaper crest has similarities to tm and nk, additionally the delvers drill has similarities to grimm's air attack

[edgy nebula]

here

[sinful nimbus]

Spool fragments have distinct architecture if I'm remembering correctly

[fresh kraken]

are these enough?

[vestal swan]

Sometimes the spools are just floating in mid-air though

[sinful nimbus]

Reaper crest isn't a weaver technique nor is the delvers drill

[unreal estuary]

Not really, no, those are purely asthetic connections with no ties to lore

[sinful nimbus]

Delvers drill is also a drill while Grimm's air attack is just a sharp object

[vestal swan]

None of those are connections

[fresh kraken]

then grimm atleast gttta used those tools

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm having a reaper crest is a fun idea though

[edgy nebula]

reaper crest isnt even like, grimm reaper related, it's the farming term for reaper, afaik

[sinful nimbus]

Well Scuttlebrace works by enhancing the wearer's spine so you can just infer Grimm has a flexible spine

Which makes sense he is a bit of a shapeshifter

[unreal estuary]

That's probably exactly what it means given where it's found

[fresh kraken]

combine blue tool (pollip touch), with a red one (cogfly) creating a mass poisonous attack: Imaginary technique, purple cogfly

[brave yoke]

Alright, so do I get it right:
Mask Shards -> made by AC from Pale Ore
masks for regular bugs -> made by MMs from bone + Pale Lacquer
masks for Kingsmoulds/Wingsmoulds -> made by PK from pure Soul
Grimm Troupe masks -> noone knows, possibly made by Nightmare Heart somehow

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm compares his task to agriculture

Its more of a joke theory than anything else but its sorta plausible

[edgy nebula]

oh, i didnt know that, that's cool

[fresh kraken]

but guys team cherry has crazy detailing in their games, i dont think its just a coincidence..

[vestal swan]

I don't know where you got this pure soul thing but that's not ever said or shown

[sinful nimbus]

Well

[fading whale]

Yet another connection between pale and soul. Masks are made of pale ore, and masks is also a measurement (similar to tablespoons) for the amount of soul in shaman recipes

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers and Grimm are both spider themed

[edgy nebula]

well they clearly dont have enough, what's the karak timeline team cherry? i dont think even they know

[brave yoke]

Alright, then unknown material, but for sure infused with Soul by PK (that's why they give Soul when hit, but Collector doesn't)

[fresh kraken]

am pretty sure tm and nk atleast gotta be spiders

[vestal swan]

Rune etched is most likely

[fresh kraken]

hollow knight: grimflame coming after hollow knight: chakram

peak +2 game idea

[vestal swan]

He's not a bug at all

[fresh kraken]

Prove it

[edgy nebula]

weavers are silk themed actually

[brave yoke]

...Hm, though Hornet also says they are a mix of Void and Soul, which I didn't think was even possible. I always thought it was Soul on the outside, and pure Void on the inside.

[simple hedge]

Is every Silksong ending canon? Or is it just Mister Mushroom and Sister of the Void?

[wise sand]

If something is the same color as something else theyre the same thing fyi

[brave yoke]

every ending is canon.

[fresh kraken]

then is the weaver queen ending - the one where hornet's life ends just cause of getting captured by some npc?

[edgy nebula]

silksong fans when they see the color red

(it's grimm)

[brave yoke]

So is there nothing at all that would tell us more about any masks' origin? : (

[wise sand]

Hornet is void,the snails are void,fertids are void etc

[vestal swan]

Ama response about what grimm is says that he's basically an amalgamation of scary things, and he's created by a god specifically to be worn by that God

[brave yoke]

I guess the Dreamer masks also must've been made by PK

[fresh kraken]

isnt that a troupe, cant anyone join it

[vestal swan]

Everything's cannon why not, their intention always seems to be to validate all of the player choices

[strange bronze]

How did the First Sinner get sealed away? By GMS or Weavers who first denied their true origins?

[unreal estuary]

Weavers

[vestal swan]

Yes people do join up like it's a traveling circus but the grimms are specifically made by the heart

[brave yoke]

and the Knight's shell, I guess it's just the bone head it was born with, but why then are our HP tracked with "masks" that look like Dreamer masks?

[fading whale]

Mix of void and soul is nothing new, that's literally what the shades are. They're not pure void, if they were they'd be liquid or tendrils.

And yes I know they don't give soul on hit, it's still void but it's void that has consumed soul and been changed by it, defined by the memories and emotions it holds

[simple hedge]

Fair enough. There's just the ones that make more sense, like Dream no more.

[fresh kraken]

GUYSS TELL ME IS THE WEAVER QUEEN CANON

[brave yoke]

So it's like Void/Soul mix, but with very low Soul concentration? : P

[unreal estuary]

Everything is canon

[fresh kraken]

embrace the void is kinda werid

[fading whale]

As much as the base hollow knight ending or sealed siblings is canon

[vestal swan]

ETVF is the one that leads to this game when you break it down

[fading whale]

I think it is void but it has been fundamentally changed

By soul

[fresh kraken]

so uh, your telling me, the boss that made me (- the killer of a god) suffer for 8 hours on hollow knight, got captured by some npcs, and got her life end cuz of that??

[brave yoke]

that doesn't explain much tbh, do you mean it in a way like homeopathic "water memory" or something? or do you mean it like "it's still water, but had salt solved in it, so now it's salty water"?

[fading whale]

I mean they were created by void creeping inside unhatched eggs , absorbing and replacing the soul within

[unreal estuary]

In Weaver Queen and Twisted Child yeah

[fresh kraken]

idk if the dlc endings are canon tho

[fresh kraken]

makes sense, buff beastfly

[vestal swan]

They are

[fresh kraken]

man i want more hk dlcs

i dont want knight's story to end 🙁

[vestal swan]

You don't need more hollow Knight DLC for their story to continue

[fresh kraken]

me wanna play as the cool knight while exploring new things

[vestal swan]

TC can always kill them off screen after a cutscene in dlc

[fresh kraken]

and the mod that makes hornet the knight is useless since i have completed the game

[fading whale]

I like the water memory analogy actually yes, because like the soul isn't there that's why you don't gain it upon hitting siblings, but it still has unmistakably imprinted onto the void liquid and changed its nature. I

[fresh kraken]

atlest most of it

[fresh kraken]

who is TC

[vestal swan]

Team cherry

[fresh kraken]

oh

temu chair

[elfin shard]

Were the 3 ancient rulers of pharloom higher beings the same way Unn was?

[fading whale]

They were mortals

[unreal estuary]

Nyleth may have been, the other two probably not

[fresh kraken]

wait there is 3 rulers??

[fading whale]

Shamans say that explicitly

[vestal swan]

Only one of the four (5) really had that potential
Nyleth

[fresh kraken]

i hope we will get to end phantom fight with a parry again in the pantheon of pharloom

[brave yoke]

Hm, I always thought that the Void they're made out of was "shaped" by Vessel's literal bodies. Normally they would get born as physical bugs after all. So the bodies didn't dissolve. It's just their Soul was consumed and replaced by Void (like if you replaced all water in a human with black sludge). They retain the ability to store Soul inside, just like they have the ability to store Radiance inside, because of their Pale parents, but they don't contain any Soul by themselves.

Just like the glass jars, made out of pure glass.

[vestal swan]

Nyleth - created and controlled the forest and was powerful enough that the citadel decided not to fuck with her and made a statue in her honor instead

Mr Krabs - possibly a generational line of rulers and a coral bender but his abilities are not exclusive to him

The green princes - gay kings of Verdania or maybe they never actually rose to the throne properly, one sacrificed himself for peace, and they still got their kingdom destroyed

Karmelita - became the leader of the ants secluded a giant area and protected it by uniting them with music and her skills

[sinful nimbus]

(No)

[vestal swan]

What do you mean no

[fading whale]

I agree, except that the storing the radiance doesn't come from the pale parents, it comes from the void but yes they would have been born "normal" as normal as the offsprings of two gods can be, but they had their soul hollowed out by the void inside. That's probably what failed in them being truly hollow and emotionless. Because the void inside them actually gained will and emotions by absorbing the soul. PK probably thought that the consciousness and soul inside would be completely erased and obliterated by the void, not inherited by it.

[sinful nimbus]

They were not higher beings

[unreal estuary]

Where does Focusing come from? Assuming that it's Vessel specific (since it's what allows them to seal the Radiance) does that come from the Pale King, White Lady, or some mix of the two?

[fading whale]

It's not vessel specific I think it's just an advanced form of soul manipulation

Aka magic

[vestal swan]

It's not really stated but maybe the king, this assumption comes from the King telling the sanctum thar trying to achieve pure focus will never work so he would be the one to know about it

[unreal estuary]

I see

[vestal swan]

They were trying to use focus to combat the infection, and then immortality etc and PK said y'all are idiots

[fading whale]

More pointers that pale beings have a special connection with soul , that's why he knows so much about it

[vestal swan]

No not really

[fading whale]

I mean if pure focus is a mystical special power and the pale king seems to know all about it that's a hint

The question is, is binding soul

Focus ?

[limpid summit]

Yes

[fading whale]

And like, if soul is in the form of silk then focusing is called binding ?

[limpid summit]

There’s lots of forms of focusing

Binding is analogous to pale focus so it counts

[vestal swan]

Spiral focus
Pure focus
Binding is kind of focus (not really)
Vacuum focus
Focus as in attention for a ritual
Focus as in a lens

I feel like I'm forgetting one

[fading whale]

It's just weird to me that bind is something done to one's own self to heal, but also the same word for integrating foreign memories and skills and imprinting them on your own soul (binding a crest)

[limpid summit]

You mean godseeker focus for the second to last

[brave yoke]

I think the Void just lets them have more "space" inside in order to store a whole fucking God. This "space" for Pale beings is normally filled with their seemingly infinite source of e.g. Soul or Silk. But I think even without Void they could steal and store the life essence of like, a few normal bugs, no problem. Even Hornet can do that. In HK we use the "Focus" spell to both heal ourselves with stolen Soul (integrate it with our own lifeforce), and succ Radiance in (integrate it with our Void). Soul and Radiance's lifeforce are basically the same thing IMO.

[fading whale]

I don't remember the vacuum focus where is that from

[vestal swan]

Well it's basically wrapping yourself with silk and then activating magic to turn that bandage into a magic bandage
I think the binding that absorbs things actually transmutes them into silk before it does the same thing

[brave yoke]

I think they mean the first ending

[limpid summit]

It’s not 100% physical but you may be right in a sense

Void infinitely replicates and has weird geometry

[vestal swan]

It doesn't infinitely replicate?

We don't know what's up with that bowl

And since we know portals exist! I'm going to say soupboy is holding a portal to the bottom of the lake

[brave yoke]

I thought it was just a, you know, fountain 🙃

[vestal swan]

It has to be coming from somewhere

That's a dead guy holding a bowl

[fading whale]

So when binding a crest or a silk skill, hornet is turning it into silk that in a way like a Turing machine instruction tape, carries the information and imprints it into her soul

[vestal swan]

I don't know what machine you're talking about

Reverse 3D printing

[fresh kraken]

what is the ending that hornet survives

[heavy gyro]

Would tk be able to change crests

[vestal swan]

She technically survives the first one and the last one
Weaver Queen and sisters of the void

[fading whale]

That's a great question

I personally don't think so

[vestal swan]

I don't think so either, seems like that's more tied to her Weaver BS

[limpid summit]

Collector regenerates until we beat the soul off of him

His arms blow off

[fading whale]

Yeah the shamans say something like "all that power all that learning sucked up in a whirl of silk"

It seems that silk has something to do specifically with transmitting information

[vestal swan]

Collector is trying to hold himself together and dripping on the floor? Thats him losing safe not losing pieces
Also not beating the soul off of him there's no soul

[fading whale]

And extracting it

[limpid summit]

The imprint yes

[heavy gyro]

Isnt it more tied to wyrm genetics since eva was surprised that hornet's nature could be changed or something

[fading whale]

In the binding process

[heavy gyro]

And it would make sense since wyrms can shapeshift

[vestal swan]

Her worm DNA might have made it stronger but it still doesn't seem like a wyrm ability to just change whoever you are whenever you want to
Wyrms can metamorphos once
And it's a physical process

[fading whale]

I don't think it's only once

[fresh kraken]

why does it say sisters of void instead of sister

why plural

[limpid summit]

I think it does say sister

[vestal swan]

There's nothing suggesting wyrms can do it more than once

[limpid summit]

Where do you see sisters

[vestal swan]

My typo I guess

[fresh kraken]

oh ok

i think knight cant bind since silk and soul work differently

dunno how he gets spells tho

[vestal swan]

But if TK were to eat a silk heart

Spells is by absorbing soul and information

[fresh kraken]

maybe silk hearts are seen only to hornet

[vestal swan]

There is some amount of information that still stays on soul that came from another being

[fresh kraken]

kinda like shade and soul thing being able to seen only by knight

btw which crest did hornet use in hk fight

[vestal swan]

The only thing that is exclusive to TK's vision is essence because it has the dream nail in its hand

[fading whale]

Yeah, maybe it's just that more complex learnings like an entire crest need the more complex nature of silk to be encoded

Compared to soul

[fresh kraken]

cuz it says bind

[sinful nimbus]

I also first read it as Sisters of the Void and thought the game was trying to say TK considered Lace its sister now too and I was like

[fresh kraken]

idk if u can do that in hk

[fading whale]

Like maybe raw soul can only encode x bytes but silk can encode megabytes if info

[fresh kraken]

then hornet and lace is sisters

[vestal swan]

Lace being hornets aunt and TK's niece is forever hilarious

[fresh kraken]

then they cant ship lace x hornet

[vestal swan]

They already can't she's a child

[fresh kraken]

yay

[vestal swan]

Hornet is old as dirt

[sinful nimbus]

[fresh kraken]

but there was a vid saying "silksong true ending = l*sbian couple"

[fading whale]

It's so funny how nuu calls her an old hag basically

[unique canopy]

Never underestimate how little things like "common sense" matter to shipping

[vestal swan]

Those people can't read

[sinful nimbus]

Why we censoring lesbian dawg 😭

[fresh kraken]

the vid had

[sinful nimbus]

[fading whale]

She literally says that hornet is less valuable and less of a loss to the world if she dies cause she's old

[sinful nimbus]

I never knew Nuu was so based

[vestal swan]

I don't remember that that's fucking hilarious

[fresh kraken]

and she tried to "taste" the nectar she had on her cloak

[unique canopy]

They're actually Lisbian, they're Portuguese now

[fresh kraken]

i dont get it?

[unique canopy]

The biggest city in Portugal is Lisbon. Bad joke, nevermind.

[fresh kraken]

oh

a good joke tbh

my geography info wasnt good enough to understand it

[fading whale]

High up, above the caverns all of crust, Nuu has been told of a hole, filled with writhing things, all zipping and zapping.
But so sad! Nuu cannot herself see it. The lands quake and rattle. The savage threads stretch. The dangers are too much.
It must be you, miss grown-up, older, stiffer, a shell less precious. Seek the cave, and the things within. How else will the journal be complete?

[fresh kraken]

🙁

[fading whale]

"older stiffer, a shell less precious"

Compared to my own young pristine nuu shell

[vestal swan]

Holy fuck she roasted her ass

[fresh kraken]

dawg if thats the case i wonder what happened to hallowenst since hornet is rly old

[brave yoke]

I think they work practically the same. Silk is just regular spider silk made magical by adding Soul to it. Makes it much more portable than regular Soul.

[vestal swan]

Wdym?

Hornet was already really old in the first game

[fresh kraken]

like in the embrace the void ending, what happens to hallownest since long time has passen

[fresh kraken]

not that much

her age is shown more in silksong

[vestal swan]

She was born before the kingdom was saved and lived up till now and that was supposedly several generations and ages

[fading whale]

Fine thread spun from the soul of its creator. Highly coveted for its remarkable strength and mystical properties. Used to heal wounds, extend life and weave powerful runes.

[vestal swan]

Also we don't know the time gap between games I personally think it's a super long time

[fading whale]

Silk is soul

[vestal swan]

Except when it's not

[fresh kraken]

i want more dlcsss

[frigid belfry]

its like an application of soul that only gms and weavers can control

[fading whale]

I think silk is to soul what a snowflake is to just plain ice

[fresh kraken]

aint gms a weaver too, just the higher being?

[frigid belfry]

other pale beings, vessels, or shamans cant control silk but can control soul

[fading whale]

It is more complex , created in a specific way and it holds more information

[frigid belfry]

nope, shes her own thing

[fresh kraken]

k

[fathom hill]

lacenet mentioned

[frigid belfry]

she ascended the weavers from regular pharlids

[fresh kraken]

by hatred

[brave yoke]

Yeah, I think it might be either "pure refined Soul" or "regular silk + Soul".

[fathom hill]

ill counter that hatred dw

[fresh kraken]

but silk has more of a physical form

[fathom hill]

billions must love didnt you get the memo

[fresh kraken]

you do realize that hornet is like a grandma while shoe lace is a kid

[brave yoke]

Plz note there's TONS of silk all around the place that doesn't give any Silk to Hornet. Same in Beast's Den, the spiders are presumably her children (made with her late husband), who lost the ability to make Silk, but can still make silk.

[fathom hill]

lace age mentioned hell yeah

i love this discourse real fun

[fresh kraken]

bro might be lace herself

[fathom hill]

maybe

[fresh kraken]

i kinda feel sad for lace

[fathom hill]

I like lace shes cool

[fresh kraken]

she might be finding comfort solely on fencing

and gms is a bad mom

[frigid belfry]

gms is a great mom

[lilac hedge]

Wait what

[abstract rivet]

What

[brave yoke]

Which is funny because technically Lace is Hornet's aunt : P

[fading whale]

Does anyone have a video of the second nuu slap in voltnest? Dialogue in the wiki shows it must exist but I can't find video anywhere

[fresh kraken]

the only way to defend that is the fact she is the reason of phantom fihgt

[abstract rivet]

do you mean she shouldn’t be allowed to babysit children good

[frigid belfry]

sacrifice your child for the world (pk) or sacrifice the world for your child (gms)

[fathom hill]

silkmates are not related

[fresh kraken]

wasnt it confirmed that theyre not

[brave yoke]

hence "technically" : P

[abstract rivet]

Weavers…

[fathom hill]

the weavers literally said that gms lied when she called them daughters and divine

[abstract rivet]

Phantom..

[fresh kraken]

pale beings...

[lilac hedge]

Which child?

[brave yoke]

it's important

[fresh kraken]

its plural

[fathom hill]

common lacenet despiser L smh my head

[frigid belfry]

yes

[fresh kraken]

get this guy outta here

[abstract rivet]

Her fav child doesn’t even get to see her and hates her

[fathom hill]

they tried brotha

[patent brook]

any lore on this random ass pilgrim that gives 50 rosaries for literally no reason

unironically

[frigid belfry]

thats pebb lmao

[fresh kraken]

how can hating a ship that has like decades of age difference also including the characters whom sexual oriontation is unknown bad

[fading whale]

If someone has a save file in act 2 and has killed voltvyrm but hasn't gone to act 3 please try to find nuu in voltnest and record her getting slapped again I can't find video anywhere I'm gonna go crazy

[abstract rivet]

Her fav childs older sibling is legit a dumpster baby

[fathom hill]

shipping discourse is lame thats why

[abstract rivet]

Her past children legit fucking betrayed her cus she lied

I don’t think thats a great mother dude

[lilac hedge]

Hes the one that seels u stuff in bone bottom lmao

[fresh kraken]

what is discourse can u tell me its meanign

[fathom hill]

anyways lets talk abt the herald

[patent brook]

thats fucked up

[lilac hedge]

As you can see hes not good

[abstract rivet]

A twisted type of love relationshipr

[frigid belfry]

discourse = argument

[fresh kraken]

the only good thing she has done is creating story of silksong and making the phantom fight

[patent brook]

I never noticed pebb leaving so I never made the connection

[fresh kraken]

oh ok

[abstract rivet]

if GMS was a great mother The Collector would be an good person

[edgy nebula]

shes terrible, i cant believe she destroyed karak

[abstract rivet]

twisted sense of love

[fresh kraken]

this reminds me my question

[lilac hedge]

Bone bottom go through sum stuff, first the decaying kingdom a fucking skull tryant and then getting infected by void

[fresh kraken]

is collector a void being

[edgy nebula]

yes

[lilac hedge]

Yezzir

[abstract rivet]

yep

if you’re wondering how they talk its cus they stole a bugs voice

[fresh kraken]

we gonna get collector no hitting absolut radience trust

[patent brook]

old towns going through massive changes is one of my favorite things about this game

[fresh kraken]

wait how did he escape

[lilac hedge]

What fucking bug in hk laughs like the collector bro

[fresh kraken]

bellheart is the biggest example

[frigid belfry]

freaky kingsmould idk

[abstract rivet]

they aren’t an vessel

[fathom hill]

what do you think some of these mean, the third one may be referencing Celeste and someone said the fifth one may be downwell

[fresh kraken]

collector is the sole reason i hate bosses that make too much noise

[fresh kraken]

why an?

[fathom hill]

These may be references to either tc projects or other projects like it was last time in hk

[fresh kraken]

which entries are these

[fathom hill]

The herald entries

[frigid belfry]

he outright says the next game may have hornet as its protagonist, and there is def a cleleste reference

[fresh kraken]

what is dat

[fathom hill]

mr mushroom

this funky dude

[fresh kraken]

how to get it

[sinful nimbus]

Greymoor is Undertale

[fresh kraken]

aint that in hk

[fathom hill]

i could believe it

[fresh kraken]

wait-

[frigid belfry]

act 3 stuff

[fresh kraken]

aint it in hk bruh

[frigid belfry]

he's in ss aswell

[fresh kraken]

the crow father = sans???

[fresh kraken]

nah bro was one of the few that made it

he is stronger than the shade lord

since the embrace the void ending might be canon

he saved hallownest

peak story

[fathom hill]

im pretty sure the sixth one is just referencing the game itself giving he mentions "by claw" which is im sure

[fresh kraken]

hollow knight: mushroom mush

[fathom hill]

just limbs in this world like hand

[fresh kraken]

are they supposed to reference games

[frigid belfry]

we dont know for sure if the shade lord destroys hn in hk, + its implied endings 3-5 are all canon and left ambiguous

[fathom hill]

In hk they did reference games, both that tc made and others

[vestal swan]

TK has no reason to destroy the region

[fresh kraken]

is there a hyper light drifter reference

[fathom hill]

but if i had to guess it could be any form of media this time

[fresh kraken]

wait is celeste made by TC

[olive quartz]

no lol

[fathom hill]

You could read the dialogue and try to asses if some match

[fresh kraken]

aint shade lord and TK different person

[fathom hill]

no

[olive quartz]

TK becomes shade lord after embrace the void

[fresh kraken]

then why does it have a reference

[olive quartz]

because they like celeste and wanted to reference a game their friends made

[fresh kraken]

makes sense, but arent they hollow whyshall the knight show mercy

[fathom hill]

The third one is

[fresh kraken]

he is in far fields too?

[olive quartz]

any way you read the daughter of the void ending pretty clearly shows that the knight isn't hollow

[fathom hill]

this could imply celeste, the little left behind being the dark madeline in game, that becomes a companion for the climb

the elements though is a lil mixed, but we do fight nature in some parts, being it wind if anything

[fresh kraken]

which ending is that

[frigid belfry]

hk:ss ending 4

[fresh kraken]

how to get it

[fathom hill]

I think its a celeste reference mainly cuz mount fay is also a mountain in canada, just like mount celeste

[olive quartz]

sister of the void, silksong true ending

[frigid belfry]

true ending essentially

[fathom hill]

<@&283547423706447872>

[frigid belfry]

how tf have you not finished the game and chat in a lore channel gng😭

[fathom hill]

another common lacenet despiser L bro aint even finished the game 💔

[abstract rivet]

Silk kong

[olive quartz]

the knight isn't hollow
"the knight cared for hornet so it saved her"

the knight is hollow
"uhhhh the knight fuckin. knew that hornet would be important in the future for some unspecified reason. or idk it didnt want to absorb her because it.... ok well no it didn't care about hornet. idk the knight was just being silly... or something"

[fresh kraken]

you said it different

[abstract rivet]

I think, Vessels aren’t hollow from the start, they just start with an weak will (my theory), the fact that The Knight can interact with someone already disproves they’re not hollow tbh

[vestal swan]

Hornet appearing as winged nosks disguise is not even the only example

There's actually like almost 20 I think examples of will and emotion

[fathom hill]

anyways as i said this may just be a reference to act 3 as a whole

[fresh kraken]

yea, otherwise how could the knight decide what they wanna buy and what they dont

also i thought vessel meant they were just some puppet-like things to be controlled by a igher being (player)

[abstract rivet]

What does Nosk disguise as again I forgot his lore

[fresh kraken]

when i first heard it

[olive quartz]

"one can visit the past but then memories become contradictory" sounds like a joke about parts of hollow knight that were retconned in silksong

[fresh kraken]

dawg i didnt read that entry either

[fathom hill]

also someone made a connection with hk, in hk the first dialogue of the herald references the knight itself, in ss it may reference Hornet which tracks

[fathom hill]

That would be funny tbf

[olive quartz]

In the deepest darkness, there are beasts who wear faces stolen from your memories and pluck at the strings in your heart.

[fresh kraken]

hungry knight reference?

[fathom hill]

It is a hungry knight ref yeah

[fresh kraken]

then in the p5 encounter, we've grown to care about hornet, so he transforms into her

[olive quartz]

my interpretation of mr mushroom is that he is talking to you the player

[abstract rivet]

I’ve always thought Pure Vessel was an interpretation of the Godseeker on The Hollow Knight’s Prime, is this correct

[fresh kraken]

this is proof that knight int hollow

[fresh kraken]

maybe dream version of hk?

[olive quartz]

interpretation or just like, how it actually was

[fresh kraken]

if he didnt get infected

[abstract rivet]

like what they couldve been

[olive quartz]

pv is very clearly a dream version of thk but is it also the past version of thk? i mean, i think that makes sense

[abstract rivet]

Absolute Radiance never existed pretty sure

[fathom hill]

I think he is more of talking to whoever game protagonist or elsewhere he is referencing, except for Hornet when he is being instrospective

for example in the castlevania ref one

[fresh kraken]

mybe a version where there was no radiance

[fathom hill]

Hmm? No, not him. No. Absolutely not

[olive quartz]

fair but either way it's a fourth wall break and we shouldn't be gleaning much lore from it

[fresh kraken]

how do you get those notes bruhhh

[fathom hill]

Though if that were the case, maybe it is the player since we are the ones controlling these characters

[olive quartz]

the wiki lol

[fresh kraken]

cant i get it ingame

[fathom hill]

those are dialogue

[fresh kraken]

tell me how do i get it bruhh

[olive quartz]

https://hollowknight.wiki

[fathom hill]

the blueish ones are from hk, the reddish ones are from ss

but thats cuz thats how the wiki looks

[frigid belfry]

gng you havent been to act 3, so why tf are you in a lore channel

[fathom hill]

actually the ss one may just reference ss nature as a sequel rather than hornet herself

[abstract rivet]

Yeah there’s alot of true ending spoilers here

[fathom hill]

would this reference hungry knight being the predecessor of hk?

[fresh kraken]

im talking bout the hk version

[fathom hill]

just like hk is the predecessor of ss

[frigid belfry]

pretty sure it references the original "hungry knight" game

[frigid belfry]

talk to him in fungal wastes

[fathom hill]

thats what i said dear

[abstract rivet]

Hungry Knight is cannon in Silksong Lore and you can’t say no cus

[frigid belfry]

😡

[fathom hill]

wouldnt that be funny

thats what the knight was doing before hk

[abstract rivet]

bro be doing anything but beating The Radiance

[kind cairn]

guys is silksong after hollow knight or before and if after then which ending is cannon?

[fathom hill]

ss is after hk if we consider sister of the void canon

[inner nacelle]

Not much lore discussion here is there

[abstract rivet]

Silksong is after Hollow Knight and the contender for the true ending is Dream No More and Embrace The Void

[fresh kraken]

i havent find him

[abstract rivet]

It would be after HK regardless

[frigid belfry]

only endings 3-5 are now canon, and silksong is after hk

[fathom hill]

prolly yah

[abstract rivet]

“Experience tells me, Gods can fall”

[frigid belfry]

bad ending confirmed not canon and sealed siblings 99% are not canon

[fresh kraken]

ss is obviously after hk because of hornet remembering liveblood, infections, gods

[fathom hill]

tbf this could be referencing pk if we are to argue

[abstract rivet]

There’s like 20 more evidence debunking Silksong being before HK

[kind cairn]

i havent gotten or seen the 4th and 5th one but in hte 3rd doesn't the hollow knight come out meaning that hornet and the hollow knight had to fight?

[fresh kraken]

i felt pain for doing that to her ingame

[kind cairn]

and she won?

[abstract rivet]

It clearly refers to The Radiance also the fact The Knight is in the Abyss (No, even if you didn’t go to the Abyss they’d still be there) disproves Silksong being an prequel

[fathom hill]

The game being simultaneously before and after hk would not make much sense regardless

[frigid belfry]

||nope, the thk only comes out in endings 4 and 5 which are the godhome ones, we dont know if they fight lmao||

[fathom hill]

but the game im sure does strip those doubts quite early

[abstract rivet]

It’s after HK 100%

[kind cairn]

ohhh mb so there isnt one confimed canon ending?

[fathom hill]

there isnt

[kind cairn]

we just know that 3-5 can be cannon?

[frigid belfry]

yeah tc likes to keep endings ambiguous

[kind cairn]

alright thanks

[fathom hill]

tc said years before that all endings were canon, but that quote has been misrepresented, rn both sealed endings can be discarded

[abstract rivet]

Dream No More, Embrace The Void and its flower variant is the possible ones

[olive quartz]

? thk's shade appears in dream no more

[frigid belfry]

as in thk vessel form

[olive quartz]

o nvm misread

[abstract rivet]

they changed their minds i guess

[olive quartz]

nah you can totally interpret the first ending as canon if you never get the true ending (sealed siblings is harder but can be jimmied in)

[abstract rivet]

I don’t want Weaver Queen or Twisted Child to be cannon cus they just don’t feel like endings at all

[fathom hill]

someone said this could be an undertale one but im not sure

apparently the flowers have their stories or the communication advice may mean something else

[olive quartz]

neither does the hollow knight ending then lol

[kind cairn]

how do we know that the first one isn't cannon? do we see the knight in silksong? i havent seen him and i have just beaten ||the grand mother of silk||

[olive quartz]

get out of this channel LMFAO

[abstract rivet]

It has more ending vibes than weaver queen tbh but sealed siblings definetly not

[fathom hill]

they changed their minds with a lotta things in ss

[olive quartz]

go to #sk-help like right the fuck now

[fathom hill]

plus they said this like 5 years ago something oughta change

[frigid belfry]

gng dont come in here

[kind cairn]

wait why😭

[abstract rivet]

You never know with Team Cherry nowadays we gotta take some of their words with a grain of salt

[olive quartz]

SPOILERS

[fathom hill]

but no voidheart though

[olive quartz]

YOU HAVENT FINISHED SILKSONG

[fathom hill]

well except sealed siblings

[frigid belfry]

theres so much of the game after gms and the entire channel is spoilers

LEAVE

[kind cairn]

oh shit mb

SORRY I DIDNT KNOW

[olive quartz]

not for us, for your own good lmfao

[frigid belfry]

someone get the mods to label this channel lmao this is the second one in the past 10m

[olive quartz]

don't apologize just do yourself this solid

[fathom hill]

but sealed siblings must have been a long time how would hornet silksong learn the whole sentinel thing

[olive quartz]

avoid the discussion channels too they are also spoiler zones

[fathom hill]

she would have starved to death

[frigid belfry]

we outright know she would die lmao

[abstract rivet]

Get the hell out of this channel bro please its for your own good

[fathom hill]

unless weaver god hybrids dont need substenance which fair

[frigid belfry]

she tells tk that her kind cant be sustained inside the black egg

[fathom hill]

No no i mean she is alive, giving the seal in the door

[olive quartz]

hornet was already a sentinel by the time of hollow knight, her second fight is called 'hornet sentinel'

[kind cairn]

yep leaving now thnx

[olive quartz]

well specifically it says "its bindings would drain me"

[frigid belfry]

she would either be in a semi-alive state or be unrecoverable

[frigid belfry]

yeah my girl dead fo-sho

[olive quartz]

hmm almost like in her weakened state she could be grabbed by the citadel.....

[fathom hill]

but she would have died giving the long time shes implied its been

[fathom hill]

Prolly yeah

[olive quartz]

??

when does hornet imply it's been a long time since the events of hollow knight

[abstract rivet]

hornet is fragile basically legit any bug can randomly capture her nowadays smhh

[fathom hill]

But she stopped being one, thats the point of her character growth since hk

[abstract rivet]

Stupid Hornet thinking she’s an Hunter

[frigid belfry]

you cant enter the black egg without killing a dreamer

[vestal swan]

Citadel could break into the egg

[fathom hill]

overall by how different she acts in relation to everything but yeah that could have been 1000 years or just 100 tbf

[olive quartz]

well the knight can't, we know the citadel is skilled at countering weaver magic and we're pretty sure the seal of binding was weaver magic sooooo

[vestal swan]

Could have been 10 months 10 years 10 days tbh

We don't really have a good equivalent for how time passes for anybody

[abstract rivet]

Wait I never thought about this what the fuck..

[fathom hill]

she was 1000 years old, turned 1001 and decided shes all mature now smh my head

[olive quartz]

hornet had like five lines of dialogue in hollow knight i am not surprised her character changes in silksong

[fathom hill]

??

[vestal swan]

I do go with it being on the longer side though

[vestal swan]

She wasn't immature in the first game?

That's just the fan interpretation trying to make her act like a teenager for some reason

[abstract rivet]

Hollow Knight Higher Beings when it comes to being the most insufferable creatures

[vestal swan]

The memes have rotted your brain

[fathom hill]

I was referencing another comment

[vestal swan]

Ah

[fathom hill]

it was more in tandem with the huhhhh

[abstract rivet]

Hornet was just taken unserious in the first game but her dialogue is very serious

[fathom hill]

the why hornet doesnt say shaw in ss

and shaw being an insult or something

[abstract rivet]

Shaw being an insult are we sure

[olive quartz]

that is entirely a joke lmfao

[fathom hill]

it is a joke

[olive quartz]

shaw could just be her word for 'ghost' or something

[vestal swan]

Well she only really says it to tk, so maybe it refers to something dead or something acursed

[abstract rivet]

or “catch this”

[fathom hill]

I personally think it could be something like outsider, giving the stilkin do say this

[abstract rivet]

Team Cherry needs to drop the Official Hollow Knight Dictionary

[vestal swan]

In the grand scheme though bug speak is untranslatable

[olive quartz]

sigh bapanada

[vestal swan]

Huh?

[abstract rivet]

Vienta

Fren

[olive quartz]

but yeah the fact that sherma sings different words to the same song is proof enough that bug language isn't just speech

[fathom hill]

https://youtu.be/N6crzHZVgvA?si=NXKTMxsrN-jXFtuA

[abstract rivet]

Is there no strong contender for Hornet voice meme in Silksong dammit

atleast return Git Gud or something

[fathom hill]

0:46

shaw spotted

[unique canopy]

There's also the citadel bellthrower who sounds like "shaaAAaaww"

[vestal swan]

Hmmmmmm

[wise sand]

Poshanka

[charred radish]

mejina fora is peak

[wise sand]

Fren maybe

[abstract rivet]

Shakra and Sherma is the one with the funny memes

[olive quartz]

actually yeah maybe shaw means outsider hence why hornet has no reason to call anyone that when she is the outsider

[fathom hill]

obviously you could take it with a grain of salt but yknow

also could just be an exclamation in battle but whatever

anyways as i said

[abstract rivet]

hornet is taken alot more seriously as a character in silksong rather how memefied she was in HK isnt she smh

[vestal swan]

Totally unrelated but this made me remember that collector yelle screams a bunch, and then it also reminded me that I saw a video of some meme with a kid hopping around his classroom doing the collector noises and poses I need to see if I can find it.

I wonder if collector is actually speaking gibberish since he only took part of lkb's personality he also took part of his speech and not all of it

[fathom hill]

Hornet in hk and Hornet in ss have different personalities, if you argue that Hornet has way less dialogue in hk and thats why it looks different i dont believe it

[wise sand]

She does change a bit

[fathom hill]

i do think theres been a growth coming from the interactions with the knight even in the game

giving how her own bond with the knight is a thing that changes over the course of it

[vestal swan]

I just don't think we see much of her personality, she's basically turned herself into a cold killing machine to try and keep the kingdom safe, insult song that whole event is over she's done sitting there being a robot mindlessly killing her siblings and she's ready to square up with somebody for fucking with her

[fathom hill]

and that also may have influenced her interactions with lace (hornets counterpart) and maybe her own growth with the whole, actually learning to bond with your fellow bug thing

[fathom hill]

yah but we do see that shift dont we, saving the knight from the collapse sequence

[abstract rivet]

lkb?

[vestal swan]

By that point she had already decided to ally with them but yeah I can see it a little bit

[vestal swan]

Love key bug, collectors counterpart

[abstract rivet]

ah

[vestal swan]

Also she still acts standoffish and like she's not going to help at the black egg and then she decides to risk herself anyway so it kind of flip-flops

[fathom hill]

tsundere ass

[unique canopy]

She does say she'll aid "if the moment presents", she just can't stay in there long enough to help with the fight itself.

[fathom hill]

we do have remnants of it sometimes in ss funnily enough with the whole

oh i do it if reward only thing

[wise sand]

Eh

[fathom hill]

or the i wouldnt sacrifice myself but does anyways

[olive quartz]

"i'll not risk my own life in your attempt" lol

[vestal swan]

I mean yes she does say that but she literally starts off by saying it's suicide for me I'm not going in

[fathom hill]

hornet when sealed siblings

yah sure you wouldnt hornet

[olive quartz]

like half of hornet's mind is full of adoration for cute fluffy things but we never see that in hk lol

[vestal swan]

Well she can't really go hug a cute fluffy thing because everybody's infected

And TK is definitely not with her in these interactions nor is TK fluffy

[fathom hill]

tbf why would hornet just say that, we know this cuz of her journal

well tbf the journal may be shared with nuu so idk

[sinful nimbus]

TC when they have to choose between worldbuilding Deepnest or writing 10 "Ohmahgaah I love fluffy things ❤️‍🩹 " entries

[abstract rivet]

Those entries are the goat shutup

[wise sand]

Deepnest is getting removed in the next hk patch

[abstract rivet]

we get more info on Hornet’s well written personality

[sinful nimbus]

Deepnest never existed it was all Weavenest Herrah

[fathom hill]

yah yah

[vestal swan]

No the weavnest has to have a fake cooler sounding name

[sinful nimbus]

No Weavenest Herrah is tuff

[abstract rivet]

deepnest isnt tuff

[sinful nimbus]

Frankly that's what Cindril should be called it'd upscale her

[fathom hill]

i wonder if

no wait the hunter in hk is not fluffly is he

just full of foliage

[olive quartz]

yes yes lace is also cute and fluffy next question

[wise sand]

No he just has shrubbery

Around him

[vestal swan]

That's a good point actually, what weavnest do you think Herra was associated with before she left? Probably not atla or absolom

[fathom hill]

yes thank you

[sinful nimbus]

Cindril

[wise sand]

Atla maybe

[sinful nimbus]

Cindril is responsible for the fleeing weavers

[abstract rivet]

Not the lore channel bro

[fathom hill]

fucking hell

[olive quartz]

probably the "run the fuck away everybody" one

[sinful nimbus]

"Plea of a Weaver from the furthest edge of Pharloom.

"Flee, sisters. Flee until your strength exhausts, so far you may escape at last her silken sight.

To start anew, to sustain, free of web and service eternal.""

[wise sand]

True

[sinful nimbus]

This means Herrah has silkspeed anklets somewhere

[abstract rivet]

hornet is definetly born in 2012 so shes barely Gen Z

[vagrant wren]

Do you think that deepnest became ruined bc of infection

[wise sand]

Yes

[fathom hill]

aint no way

[sinful nimbus]

Deepnest isn't really "ruined" aside from the weaver exodus

[vestal swan]

I mean that nest coming up with a map doesn't mean all of the ones that escaped were from there originally, they could have passed the word around unironically like an underground railroad situation and once they got to that safe house they knew a good route out

[sinful nimbus]

It only fell to the infection recently

[wise sand]

The infrastructure is unmaintained

[abstract rivet]

Is there no jokes in this game like wheres Pharloom Brainrot

[wise sand]

That applies to all of Hallownest tho tbf

[fathom hill]

Is it there not a chance that the group that fled may have been mixed with intent in that regard

since herrah is willing to start anew, but seems the others not really

[sinful nimbus]

Well Weavenests represent different attempts to deal with GMS

[fathom hill]

since they want to raise hornet as their saviour or something no?

[abstract rivet]

How does the infection spread again does Radiance individually enter a bugs mind

for allat population

[sinful nimbus]

No?

Hallownest Weavers say they want her to be their queen that's basically it

[abstract rivet]

top 10 hallownest weavers

[fathom hill]

or at least had some intent for raising Hornet as that

[fathom hill]

Ah yeah thats fair

ig the whole returning to pharloom thing was after the fact

[abstract rivet]

Did Hornet embrace the Wyrmm or Weaver side in the end

[fathom hill]

I like to believe some of both, but she says its her pale side im sure

or the caretaker i dont remember

[abstract rivet]

so Pale King won huh

[fathom hill]

so maybe wyrm side

[vestal swan]

Seems like for most it's just a generic broadcast of do you want strength do you want power we stay hungry we devour and they fall for it, but some of them need to be tricked specifically with things and I think most of those are targeted, the way she enters myla's head and says kill the empty one for example

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet rejects the tendencies of Pale Beings

[abstract rivet]

oh bet

[fathom hill]

as in?

[abstract rivet]

idk i just said random shit

[sinful nimbus]

Her identity is pretty distinct while still incorporating elements from both weavers and wyrms as Eva/Mask Maker state

[fathom hill]

cuz his eternal kingdom is noting but dust id say thats a loss

wait star talking abt hornet without insulting her?

[charred radish]

i interpreted it as her not embracing either tbh

[fathom hill]

what a character growth

[sinful nimbus]

Watcher, hunter, monarch even, though you may reject that station
bro shutting down Hornet's "I'm not like other pale beings" nonsense 🙏

[abstract rivet]

Hornet when it comes to being smart or falling to another magical cage

[abstract rivet]

Hornet thinking she special

The vessels are like 33% Pale right

33% Pale 33% Void 33% Root

[sinful nimbus]

WL is pale too

Pale isn't indicated to be a quality that can be measured like that though

[vestal swan]

50/50 wyrm/root
- all the living parts
Add void

[abstract rivet]

kk

[wise sand]

Only canonically has to happen once

And she got teamed

[abstract rivet]

I mean how did the citadel bugs even randomly capture her

Like atleast the jailor bugs threw dookie goo at her

[fathom hill]

silk rune

[wise sand]

They sent a ton of people probably

[sinful nimbus]

She's bad at combat

[abstract rivet]

oh right

[fathom hill]

you were doing so well💔

[wise sand]

The choral commandment says "full chamber"

[abstract rivet]

Maybe she was lowk sleepy

[sinful nimbus]

"Hornet killed 36 citadel henchman therefore she must be skilled" stfu that's like one high halls guantlet 🥀

[fathom hill]

i always assumed they ambushed her but

[abstract rivet]

50 citadel henchman twin

[wise sand]

Id assume its a bit of this also

[fathom hill]

she doesnt mention it if thats worth something at least

[sinful nimbus]

Almost all bosses in HK were ambushes but you don't see TK dying to them

[wise sand]

Its not like gms isnt completely stupid, she probably has some tactics other than "we're gonna kidnap you"

[fathom hill]

Also hornet in first act was weakened because of either the rune or the long time spent in the cage so its not that she was less skilled before or something

[fathom hill]

i mean

[fallow sphinx]

It says in the choral commandment that they used the cage to trap her, like when you get taken to the slab but with more jailers

[wise sand]

What even is a full chamber

Like how many people

[abstract rivet]

thing is jailors threw goo

[fathom hill]

now who would wield the giant cage over her

[sinful nimbus]

Choir term

[fathom hill]

or did they roll it towards her or something

[abstract rivet]

These mfs js randomly came and said cage time

[fathom hill]

like a pokeball

[sinful nimbus]

irl it means like 8-40 iirc

[fallow sphinx]

A bunch of the little bell fliers

[wise sand]

Pretty wide range

[abstract rivet]

how bad does the rune cage nerf someone

[wise sand]

Full implies that larger end tho

[foggy fractal]

so lowball hornet was captured by 8 members, highball 40 😭

[fathom hill]

pretty badly if hornet can literally do nothing

[fallow sphinx]

No movement, like in the trailer

[edgy nebula]

do we think karak fell pre-citadel or post-citadel

[wise sand]

Enough that hornet doesn't gain her full strength back til the end of the game

[abstract rivet]

40 + 8 = 48, lets get middleground, 24 people

[fathom hill]

now why didnt they use more runes for her after her escape

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel one removed all of Hornet's abilities the Slab one is weak baby runes you can punch out of because ????

[fallow sphinx]

It said a FULL chamber tho so probably 40

[fathom hill]

maybe gms as the cateaker says already sensed hornet approaching her so assumed

[wise sand]

She got jumped by 36 of those hammer people and 4 envoys

[fallow sphinx]

The flies are losers

[fathom hill]

clearly this one couldnt do a scratch on me now would she

[abstract rivet]

Tbh it could be very different in this game

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think the flies created those runes

[abstract rivet]

So hornet legit got almost the High Halls Gauntlet on her ass

[fallow sphinx]

Ez

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel probably supplies them with their silk and whatnot

[abstract rivet]

Why didn’t she just spam Cogflies bro

[wise sand]

She forgot to make tacks💔

[fathom hill]

the runes are made of silk apparently giving the materium thing

wait idk if im making this up

[fallow sphinx]

No, but I mean it probably had fading runes or they were damaged over time

[sinful nimbus]

Sure

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[fathom hill]

i didnt make it up cool

[wise sand]

Wonder if the citadel bugs know how to make the runes or if it's ancient weaver stuff they repurposed

[abstract rivet]

This shit is fucking confusing, The citadel when we came there seemed like dead but somehow a full chamber comes on us

[wise sand]

Haunting

[fathom hill]

anyways the other day we discussed how can we actually fit sealed sibling into being canon alongside with sister of the void but

[fallow sphinx]

First sinners is the first wielded but we aren’t shown if more have mastered the art

[abstract rivet]

Dammit Grand Mother Silk

[fathom hill]

clearly the choir bugs couldnt have undone the seal in the egg since the runes are of different nature

[sinful nimbus]

Copium...

We uh still don't know how silkfly rune breaking works

But Hornet mentions fighting many Citadel bugs before her capture anyway so they didn't use that to break her out of the black egg

[fathom hill]

maybe the silk flies have more concentrated power than we think? giving theyre already of silk origin

[fallow sphinx]

I think the fly sacrificed its soul to overcharge the binding and cause a malfunction, the glowing light signalled it for me

[fathom hill]

and somehow retain their identity to some extent how did they fit the soul in there

[fallow sphinx]

Only endings that work are the final 2, ending 3 the shades return to the abyss as the knight has “died” and thus cannot be in silksong and be the shade lord

[fathom hill]

I always assumed it was on the one instance they tried

didnt cross my mind that maybe they did send multiple groups when the others failed since

only one choral commandment

but honestly those could be back at hallownest somewhere

[craggy smelt]

silkflies got the Citadel passcode for rune locks

[silk dirge]

i was about to type some shit like "@ powdered bind them and gain their crest"

too slow 😭

[vestal swan]

Steel compression time

[silk dirge]

crest of the scambot

display images to pilgrims that make them give you rosaries

[sterile jacinth]

Crest of the Thief

[silk dirge]

grindle crest

[sterile jacinth]

I think that would unironically go hard

The charge attack is the little multi swipe they do

[olive quartz]

'clearly'

[fathom hill]

clerely

You think they could have undone them?

[silk dirge]

what happens if they tried to do that and the choirbugs got infected

the ultimate yuri radiance and gms

[unique canopy]

Radiant Mother Silk

Moth-er

[fervent sigil]

steel city where

[terse warren]

I mean, we don't know?

You're just making an assumption with no bases

[fathom hill]

[fathom hill]

The mothest

[fathom hill]

cue that one image of them catching up down in the abyss

[silk dirge]

they probably meet up in the mind of shade lord

i wonder how its like for the bugs hornet bound

are they all just chilling in her mind now

[prime scaffold]

Is this lore that this isn't just a bug universe and other species live here as well?

[fathom hill]

Coul be kind of? she says her will is strong enough to actually retain her own identity

[lusty tree]

thats still a bug i think

[fathom hill]

so maybe those identities are still there somewhere but whos to be sure

[prime scaffold]

i thought that was a pidgeon

[fathom hill]

i dont remmeber the exact dialogue either

[fathom hill]

theres other species besides bugs, like plants and mushrooms but the fey bird its a bug

[prime scaffold]

Is this some kind of mythotical bug or a real life anime

[fathom hill]

also im sure the driftlin are its offspring

and those have the bug like body

[fathom hill]

Some have thought it to be some kind of higher being but we arent sure could just be a big bug

and yeah could be just mythical like the pale stag

[fathom hill]

ok so no

hornet says her mind would cease to be

also i wonder when did she learn she could just subdue people into her shell

we only get one crest at the beggining for gameplay reasons but yknow

also aint that interesting

[lilac hedge]

Craws exist and no one say nuthin about it

[lean temple]

The hunter is Hornet's actual crest, the one that represents her. The others she gains by binding other beings

She learned many Weavers arts in Deepnest so they just taught her about binding too

[abstract rivet]

is this tuff in Pharloom

[fathom hill]

Prolly

[abstract rivet]

what even crests are meant for like lore wise

[fathom hill]

what im saying she didnt try to do that in hallownest? why do we only have one crest

[lean temple]

They're an imprint on your soul

[fathom hill]

aside from gameplay reasons

[lean temple]

Didn't need to or want to

[fathom hill]

and suddenly decided to do it in pharloom?

i mean fair its a stranger situation

[lean temple]

She was weakened so getting as much power as possible is a good idea

[fathom hill]

i saw someone theorize that with time those crests would just merge completely with the hunter crest, rn its just a more defined different identity

not much of a theory if not ingame proof ig

[lean temple]

Possible

Maybe she did bind bugs before but they have long since completely assimilated into her

[fathom hill]

yah exactly

[dawn sluice]

hey why didn’t she just bind the hollow knight to get his awesome infection crest

[abstract rivet]

wait you might be onto something..

[fathom hill]

too strong she would have lost her identity

like what she tells eva

[feral thistle]

"Why didn't silksong bind the aids crest" 😭🙏

[fervent sigil]

beflies and shakra are oddly similar

[lean temple]

Radiance is too strong

If not even THK who was specifically made to contain her could contain her power, Hornet has no chance of controlling her.

[drifting trellis]

Chat what do you think about Herrah being a drapemite theory?

This one

[lean temple]

Cool theory, until TC hopefully provide an explanation

[wise sand]

#sk-lore message

[lilac hedge]

??

[drifting trellis]

How do you explain Herrah being different from other weavers?

[wise sand]

Icl the main reason I dislike the theory is just that everyone assumes that arachnid means spider thingy and they completely ignore that mites are completely different thing to spiders.

[drifting trellis]

If she wasn't a weaver, she couldn't have given birth to a spider, Hornet

[fathom hill]

i saw someone say that herrah doesn't have 8 legs?

she does tho

[drifting trellis]

She has 8 limbs for sure

[fathom hill]

Yah

[wise sand]

Retcon or it being related to her being a dreamer/ giving birth to hornet

[drifting trellis]

So giving birth to Hornet made her weird?

[wise sand]

Lowkey maybe

[drifting trellis]

All weavers we've seen have slim stickman bodies, you can't just turn into... this from laying an egg.

[vestal swan]

Red memory is post-birth herra so they just retcon the entire design there's not really a good explanation for all the differences

[drifting trellis]

How do weavers reproduce, if Herrah is the only one like this we've seen? (Even among the corpses in Deepnest)

[lean temple]

Well they couldn't retcon the horns at least

[fathom hill]

well you see

[wise sand]

I think its mostly retcon or something but if I had to give a canon reason it's not that unlikely imo

[lilac hedge]

Tf did eva do

[fathom hill]

Be born

Or made by the weavers ig

[wise sand]

😔 i should've cropped it a bit more

[fathom hill]

She may be an ascended sylph slug being thing who is to say

[drifting trellis]

Weavers are the least practical life form in HK universe 💔 No wonder bro's didn't survive

[fathom hill]

But we know she is one of the "daughters" of the weavers in ways

[drifting trellis]

Wait what are Midwife or stalking devouts?

[lilac hedge]

Spiders

[wise sand]

Shes actually a member of the ancient void worshiping civilization(hornet is 5% void)

[lilac hedge]

Spooky little spiders

[fathom hill]

oh shit fr?

[drifting trellis]

They must be REALLY weird spiders

[wise sand]

It was revealed to me in a dream(by the radiance)

[lilac hedge]

I mean its fictional so they can look however the creator decides

[fathom hill]

Cool

yah i was gonna say

idk if saying drapemites are arachnids but not spiders is an argument against herrah being one

[drifting trellis]

If Devouts are normal weavers, then weavers' real face is different from what we saw in Widow fight

ORRR they might just wear 2 masks...

[fathom hill]

I'm not particularly convinced on the idea that herrah is a drapemite but yknow

hk already is far from accuracies when it comes to bug or otherwise i could see all weavers being treated equally independent of it

they all already have different body conditions even within the group that we know are pharlids only

[vestal swan]

Devouts aren't weavers what

[past cypress]

Birth and hibernation

[fathom hill]

im guessing they are part of the beast group that lived in deepnest separate from the weavers

the weavers from deepnest ran away mostly

[wise sand]

Consult my potentially inaccurate graph i made a month ago

[fathom hill]

except for one that we know of

[lilac hedge]

Pharlids arent weavers YET

[wise sand]

Yes

[fathom hill]

I wonder abt the little weavers

[foggy fractal]

we're just told that it's just painful and near impossible
so techincally there's no contradiction, there could be just some lucky weavers who got to have a lot of children ig ? it is strange that there's no comment on it or more in depth explanation, probably because TC forgot but who knows

[fathom hill]

wait i found something interesting

[stray fog]

My theory is that weaverlings are made artificially using silk

Because in hk, you use soul to create them through weaversong, so that's basically the same thing

[fathom hill]

I wonder if the reason Herrah seems to be bigger it's cuz of her possible role as brood mother?

like we see with karmelita and vespa

[stray fog]

If its difficult to have even 1 child, how will herrah alone have had so many children

[fathom hill]

I did believe this and was gonna say Hornet says that her mother could surpass the curse but not her tribe or something, but i checked and the actual dialogue is much broader

she just says shes spawn of one, not that others couldn't surpass it

[fathom hill]

I'm so tempted to call retcon

[lean temple]

We know of other part Weavers. It is possible to overcome the curse, albeit difficult to do.

[vestal swan]

What're those little ones above the devout called?

They aren't all Herras children that's the answer

[wise sand]

Deeplings iirc

[stray fog]

But still, there are so many of them

[foggy fractal]

Deephunter

Crawls along walls and roofs, spitting burning venom at anything that passes by.
They can be hard to spot as they flitter in and out of the darkness. Watch for their glowing eyes.

apparently they have mouths that are on screen for a single frame

[silk dirge]

this reminds me the wiki now has frames of driznits and driznargas without their cones

they are so cursed