sk-lore

[ancient sinew]

City of Steel one was staked to service it might’ve been brought from somewhere else

[timber pond]

Black Barrens, sandsea waste, City of Steel (Why would you do that lol😭 )

[silk dirge]

oh yeah thats a good point

[fathom hill]

yeah theres more cages in the background no? thats only a taste to signal they went kind of everywhere

with the map thingy

[spark valve]

these are all paths away from pharloom

[limpid summit]

Sort of reminds me of the collector’s grub

[lone folio]

its just a bunch of lines

[limpid summit]

Yeah

[ancient sinew]

A theory my friend came up with which is incompatible with the established lore but cool to think about is that the Cindril Weavers weren’t just escaping they also planned to get external help to beat GMS which is why the Hallownest ones learned the SoB from PK following the Deepnest Deal

[fathom hill]

if it was symmetrical and made a shape that is, but it looks more like branches going outwards

[spark valve]

meh it's not just contradictory to the actual text it's thematically messy

[foggy fractal]

wouldn't this suggest that the surface of pharloom is just the surface of pharloom and not the surface in general ? cuz there's quite a few paths leading up

[spark valve]

I mean

[ancient sinew]

I agree

[spark valve]

surface generally means that anyways

[ancient sinew]

I was quite harsh on him when he shared it but I believe it may have some merit

[sinful nimbus]

I think that's supposed to be viwed from top down

[ancient sinew]

Do you think the Hallownest Weavers told PK about GMS

[fathom hill]

I could believe it, but you can also see it from above ig, like actual real world maps

and not gamey maps

[sinful nimbus]

No because he's such a kind hearted individual that he would offer a peace treaty to her and establish a trade route between Hallownest and Pharloom ❤️

[limpid summit]

Idk that sounds a bit ridiculous but it makes pale king (pk?) look better

[ancient sinew]

If they did he wouldbhave volunteered his help

This should’ve been in RM

[silk dirge]

survive my endless wasteland

it would be so funny if they tried to trade like lava or some shit itd just dry up by the time they get to hallownest

[ancient sinew]

”Great Wyrm, we are exiles from a distant land, haunted by one who extinguishes hope with barely a glance. Yours is a kingdom unlike your pale kin, and we are eternally grateful for your sanctuary and pale gift to the nest.” “Hmm, sounds like a real piece of work, why don’t I show you a neat little seal of my own design in case you ever end up needing it?” instead we got “prove yourself more weaver than wyrm” PK erasure

[vestal swan]

PK: "did you try void"

[sinful nimbus]

Well... Absolom

[limpid summit]

I mean I didn’t hate red memory

[timber pond]

The Seals Are all made of silk tho lol

[limpid summit]

But I sort of wish it showed off some of White Lady’s powers cause we don’t see them really

Idk how they could have done that though

[vestal swan]

Was there anything conclusive about the weavers trying void for their plan? Or were they just researching it

[silk dirge]

wl dont have powers shes a gold digger if radiance was smart she couldve gotten pk instead

[timber pond]

Shes less of a powerhouse and more of a "i can read your mind really good" type Character

[silk dirge]

i mean absolom was researching it but its likely she didnt get far

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah why don't we give the weavers blueprints of a silk seal to combat the silk god who can magically sense silk

PK would be dumb af to try that

[timber pond]

Just researching it i guess. after discovering Ancient civilization relics. they have an arcane egg on a pedestal after all.

[silk dirge]

pk is a hb whos main thing is soul and it still took him a lot of effort to do shit with void

[ancient sinew]

I think it would be interesting characterization for the Cindril Weavers for them to have been genuinely grateful to PK for hwt he did for them instead of being ungrateful assholes one would assume that in escaping they had abandoned the arrogance of their kin but ig not

[silk dirge]

weavers are way less powerful than pk

[lone folio]

"you might not believe me but i have an idea on solving your enslave- wait you already thought of that? man you people suck get out of my palace.. I DONT CARE ABOUT SIDE EFFECTS OF VOID I BANISH YOU ALL TO DEEPNEST MY PLAN IS PERFECT THANK YOU VERY MUCH"

[silk dirge]

so they would not be doing shit with it probably

[silk dirge]

i mean i think it works well to contrast with herrah telling hornet to go her own path

[sinful nimbus]

Why would PK do anything for these colonizers

[silk dirge]

idk how that would work out with that

[ancient sinew]

They had an amicable relationship and PK was a nice guy

[vestal swan]

Actually I just came up with an even funnier idea, let's say he suggested throwing hornet in the void too and sending her after GMS
They would have told him to fuck off for trying to waste a successful Weaver child

[ancient sinew]

He already did a lot for them

[limpid summit]

Was he a nice guy tho

[vestal swan]

He didn't do any outright evil things

[limpid summit]

Idk I know unn gave up her land and he didn’t attack her or anything but there had to be some strong arming

[silk dirge]

the vessel project is definitely morally ambiguous

[sinful nimbus]

kinda tuff

[silk dirge]

its a trolley problem

[limpid summit]

Oh that’s ok

[silk dirge]

but he didnt do anything outright bad

he didnt like annihilate greenpath like gms would have

[ancient sinew]

Not from PK

[limpid summit]

I like this idea

[ancient sinew]

PK just built a road

[vestal swan]

GMS would have chewed up the grass and diverted the acid

[silk dirge]

grand mother cow

[limpid summit]

Idk about that

The fog canyon is ruled by Monomon and she’s under PK

[timber pond]

I mean it seems by nature all Higher beings want to expand. Even Unn does. Its just that the methods vary and Unn dosent give a shit because her idea of "expansion" is thinking about Grass😂

[ancient sinew]

We are literally told that though, in fact we literally see it

[silk dirge]

unns idea of expansion is environmentalism shes so cool for that

[vestal swan]

Unn isn't necessarily trying to expand, she's just letting her shit sit there and other things are encroaching on it

[silk dirge]

she just wants to grow trees and shit

[vestal swan]

She started off with a big area and it got smaller

[lone folio]

pk: "OK GUYS HEAR ME OUT! NOW THAT HERRAH IS ASLEEP WE CAN PUMP HORNET FULL OF VOI-"
weaver: "no we like our child better AND STOP WITH THE VOID STUFF"

[ancient sinew]

idk why you’d assume that was specifically PK strong arming Unn and she had likely alreadt lost influence over that land anyway

[timber pond]

Not really though. She dreams Acid water, Green rocks and Grass pepole into existnce. Its not that shes enviornmental, its just thats what she thinks aobut lol.

[ancient sinew]

PK also left the mantises and bees alone

[silk dirge]

that seems pretty environmentalist to me

acid water is not inherently pollution

[ancient sinew]

if he was gonna strong arm anyone he’d strong arm the normal ass bugs and not the hb

[silk dirge]

it could just be part of the ecosystem

muckmaggots are definitely pollution

[ancient sinew]

Shrumals and Moths we’re told both joined him by their own choice

[timber pond]

Ok let me put it this way. Of course she would. because thats HER "enviornment" she wouldnt dream of anything else.

[silk dirge]

but regular acid water could easily be just part of the ecosystem

[ancient sinew]

There is no evidence to suggest PK ever strong armed anybody

[silk dirge]

her environment is pretty good

[sinful nimbus]

The shrumals say they WARILY accepted him and SS characterizes PK as utilizing conquest not diplomacy

[timber pond]

Not for every kind of Bug

[limpid summit]

I think it’s implied not that PK is painted as a bad person but the point of the game is to rise above

[lone folio]

hes too kind for that

[limpid summit]

Like a sort of colonization allegory

[lone folio]

he only brings pain to his children

[limpid summit]

The knight is better than that

[lone folio]

and whoever manifactured the saws

[ancient sinew]

That they warily accepted him means he wasn’t strong arming them

[lone folio]

that guy was probably working for 7 lifetimes

[sinful nimbus]

Why would they be wary

[silk dirge]

i think the shrooms were on shrooms they ignored their bigass mushroom mom

[ancient sinew]

Star do you understand what words mean

You can't accept something warily if you're being forced into it by overwhelming power

[vestal swan]

The only one who seems to have done anything close to strong arming is white lady just moving in unannounced, and it's not said that she faced any resistance so

That's the best I can apply hornets current dialogue to

[limpid summit]

But how are you supposed to resist someone like that anyway

She has crazy plant powers

It’s all too convenient

[vestal swan]

No she doesn't

[silk dirge]

white lady is just a british white women

[sinful nimbus]

Why not

[limpid summit]

What???

[ancient sinew]

The mosskin don’t even seem to care that much

[sinful nimbus]

What were they wary of

[limpid summit]

I feel like the game shows her having plant powers

Or at least animal soul powers

[vestal swan]

It doesn't

[timber pond]

Pale beings probably

[silk dirge]

i love the implication that verdania is ireland and the citadel is british

[lone folio]

because warily means cautiosly and you cant be cautious while you are being forced to do something

[limpid summit]

Marmu talks about the queen teaching her to fly

[sinful nimbus]

Sure you can

[limpid summit]

The weird mantises in her garden?

[lone folio]

you cant "cautiously" be forced to do something

[vestal swan]

And she hit her over the head with a brick and she became able to fly as a ghost

[limpid summit]

Infection doesn’t change your body like that it just makes you fat

[sinful nimbus]

They were cautious of what would happen next

[lone folio]

and she never did

[limpid summit]

But she probably would have

[silk dirge]

stupid ass caterpillar

[limpid summit]

Marmu’s grave talks about honoring her

[silk dirge]

wrong reply

[limpid summit]

Why would white lady just lie

[timber pond]

She Eat hot chip and lie

[lone folio]

shes a wierd ass creature

[vestal swan]

"my family had no way to push back the dark"

[silk dirge]

marmu sure as hell got hit over the head with a brick no sane person would have her ascended attack patterns

[vestal swan]

Honestly at this point why are you listening to white lady for anything

[silk dirge]

me when im a spinny caterpillar ghost and i ram into you at lightspeed

[sinful nimbus]

Marmu is a child soldier 💀

[silk dirge]

shed fit right into verdania

[limpid summit]

Well yeah she’s kinda stupid

[timber pond]

Mabye they ran outa Flowers lol

[sinful nimbus]

PK married Ms. "I lied to my child soldier about her growing wings so I could put her down"...?

[vestal swan]

Marmu seems like a stray kid that wandered in and since white lady can't get up and bring her back to her mom she just told her whatever she wanted until she died

[silk dirge]

is this trying to say white women are stupid?

what did team cherry mean by this

[timber pond]

They aint infinite

[ancient sinew]

WL is wrong about purity she’s wrong about the first light shit she’s wrong about her own senses what does she know about anything she can’t even spell correctly

[limpid summit]

But there’s a lot of spots like the mantises where she has some weird abilities

[vestal swan]

Unless white lady's roots are taking up all the ground besides the plants that she already brought in, those things grow like crazy

[limpid summit]

Or the queens gardens have some passive abilities

[sinful nimbus]

She's correct about the first light

Its a retcon

[silk dirge]

fuck talking about the cycle of oppression of the citadel lets talk about the cycle of sk lore topics

[vestal swan]

The first light isn't exactly a retcon, it's just more white lady not knowing what she's talking about. Like I can believe she thinks it's the first light, but I cannot honestly believe she thinks her family cannot fight back the dark when her husband was literally going into the basement full of void to collect it while glowing like a light bulb

[sinful nimbus]

sk-lore is also oppressive

[ornate pier]

White Lady is old and probably has dementia ngl

[silk dirge]

real

this channel killed my family

[sinful nimbus]

First I lashed out at Team Cherry then #sk-lore lashed out at me then I lashed out at #sk-lore

[vestal swan]

Even worse is she's presumably way younger in this memory

[limpid summit]

Okay so wait

We have the mantises that look crazy weird

[silk dirge]

lashed out? are you a void tendril

[limpid summit]

We have the moss flies and the jumping guys that seem like evolved mosscreep

We have the giant plants

[timber pond]

The effect they have seems to be limmited though. Like yeah, it can protect one person for a little bit, but not long enough for the time they need to grow. For whatever "fighting back" means against a primordial Force.

also this is the same reason i dont trust snail shamans. Bros just go "yeah we use magic. Worship? haha Stealing!🙂 "

[vestal swan]

Evolution exists as a concept they don't need an outside source

The giant plants are not giant versions of existing plants so it's not a real comparison

[limpid summit]

Yeah but the mantises wouldn’t have evolved

[silk dirge]

actual image of star

[sinful nimbus]

Unlike her statements in HK she is not portrayed as wrong in this instance

Sugar coated pills won't keep you from feeling so woozy

[vestal swan]

Character with a track record of being wrong says something that doesn't line up I'm going to just not believe it

[unique canopy]

tbf collecting it and spreading it everywhere isn't exactly fighting it back

[sinful nimbus]

She also has a track record of being incredibly magically aware

[limpid summit]

I don’t know I think it would be interesting to have one higher being as embodying plant growth and plant society and then another that builds upon plants and animals in crazy ways

[timber pond]

I mean. It can resist the void which is something nothing else can.

So like

[limpid summit]

It really cements her status too

[vestal swan]

?

[limpid summit]

We already have higher beings that full similar niches

[timber pond]

If the void is a primordial force, it makes sense that only another one can match it.

[sinful nimbus]

Light resisted void in HK

[timber pond]

and we see it do that

[unique canopy]

It's also possible she was referring to her family having no innate way to fight back the void, which is why they had to import the delicate flowers/everbloom from outside the kingdom

[fathom hill]

is the reason why haunting+void takes away silk the same as to why the mist ladies take away your silk. As in both are means to get silk, one for GMS to get more power to resist and the other for Phantom to repair themselves. Or void just does that

[vestal swan]

We see basic lamps pointed at a lake do basically the same thing

[timber pond]

It calms it sure. But i wouldn't say "resist"

[fathom hill]

do we get our silk taken away by normal void tendrils?

[sinful nimbus]

I don't see the meaning in the distinction

[vestal swan]

I think void is just doing that, like if the haunting got hands

Also were you here for that phantom conversation earlier or did you have the same idea already?

[sinful nimbus]

In SS yes in HK no

[timber pond]

One Can halt it The other can actively Repulse it If you there it in by itself

[fathom hill]

I just got here like 15 min ago

[vestal swan]

Oh this was hours ago, but damn

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance's light in HK repulses the void

[twin dragon]

Widow has an extra pair of hands...

[fathom hill]

spidor

[vestal swan]

The weavers have an inconsistent number of limbs

[twin dragon]

yeah

[vestal swan]

Sinner has 0 arms

[timber pond]

Yeah i think shes a primoridal force (or at least descendant of it) as well

[sinful nimbus]

Even GMS sits in the void sea for a longer time than the Everbloom this is just nonsensical framing

No you made that up

[twin dragon]

Most weavers have 0 arms

Some weavers arbitrarily have 6 legs

[timber pond]

"i think" lmao

[twin dragon]

And widow has arms

[vestal swan]

I think most of them at least have one pair of arms but they are bound, we see sinner moving around without arms

[twin dragon]

I mean she has legs duh

[vestal swan]

I'm specifically talking about arms I know they all have at least two legs

Sinner just had shoulder spikes

[twin dragon]

Meh, we see weavers in several flashbacks

[vestal swan]

Like a walking crochet needle

[twin dragon]

they're 4 legged aswell

[sinful nimbus]

So... is there any evidence

[twin dragon]

Every weaver has those no?

[vestal swan]

No

You can see on the enshrined ones they have different shoulder shapes and probably arms

Who has that image with all the shrines on it

[twin dragon]

Some do some don't yeah

Deadass arm sockets to just not end up having arms

[vestal swan]

I would say they're probably nubs like sinners head is incomplete

GMS actually sucks at this lol

[twin dragon]

Forcibly mutating something in a short period of time provokes deformities

wow, who would've seen that coming!!!!!

[twin dragon]

That could perfectly be wear though

[fathom hill]

Could be the lack of arms just like getting them cut off or is this not possible cuz of the memory

[twin dragon]

Most weavers we see have 4 legs and no arms

why the fuck would they chop off a pair of arms aswell

[vestal swan]

They could have been mutilated at some point but the ones that are mutilated would not still be on the same team, also we see sinner form without her arms

[fathom hill]

maybe some have arms cut off to not weave silk somehow

[twin dragon]

Widow contradicts this entire premise

[vestal swan]

What's crazy is all the shit sinner can do without arms, and they were expected to play a harp on the regular

[timber pond]

Simply Mythos Framing. and the fact that the whit lady "reveres" The land the flowers come from. Implying something Higher than higher beings

[fathom hill]

giving how the ones we see with inconsistent are widow and sinner which are both mutilated in ways

[twin dragon]

You need to sever something very specific for that to happen

[vestal swan]

Sinners malformed not mutilated

[twin dragon]

Check image above, regular weavers still have differences

What if herrah herself was terribly malformed

[fathom hill]

Im guessing you talking abt the second one?

[twin dragon]

1st 2nd and 4th

[fathom hill]

unless im missing something first and last could just have the rest in the clothes

[twin dragon]

Last literally has 6

And uh they would have the dress below their arm socks p sure

Js like FS

[fathom hill]

you right

yah maybe gms is just not that good at making stuff

maybe she did fuck up phantom

[twin dragon]

Im kind of more interested in herrah theories

Since shes so different to the rest

Or maybe, yk, retcon

[fathom hill]

i mean its defo some kind of retcon

[foggy fractal]

dlc will reveal why she looks like that trust

[vestal swan]

Bad retcon
Maybe different source bug
Nothing out right explains her complete appearance differences

[twin dragon]

Yeah we arent rlly told much

[fathom hill]

but some have said that maybe herrah was a trial run for making weavers from some other species i dont remember the name

[twin dragon]

Hornet could use inf silk in the first game aswell so idk

[fathom hill]

and got so f up gms never did it again

but thats kind of ehh? the comparison photos ive seen arent that convincing imo

[twin dragon]

Her mask couldve been elongated

Fs's was broken

Or unfinished growing

[fathom hill]

some have said that it could have been a mask change

someone here said since the mask maker is down at deepnest she may have adquired a new identity as ruler of deepnest that may have changed her

but yknow, not really proof of that happening like that

[twin dragon]

This might be a good reason actually

[fathom hill]

widow ig but widow got her mask removed, not replaced

[vestal swan]

The mask change idea was based on somebody not paying attention to the cutscene of red memory

[twin dragon]

Allat happens in hallownest

[vestal swan]

Drapemite would kind of makes sense if we knew that the cloth part on top of their head was part of their head

[fathom hill]

They mean her face and mask and why is it so different, not body

[sinful nimbus]

What does this word salad mean

[fathom hill]

we dont know why she got fat

[sinful nimbus]

"Mythos framing" 🥀

[twin dragon]

Thats prob a retcorn or change of artstyle

[vestal swan]

We don't see her with an old face though, I wasn't talking about the body, the person who brought that up was comparing her dreamer mask to her head shape when there's not a difference

[twin dragon]

Silksongs weavers are different to the one we see in hk

[fathom hill]

the face she has in hk is her dreamer mask no? whatever she looked like before we dont know cuz Hornet doesn't remember

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[fathom hill]

she is not wearing the dreamer mask in the memory is what im saying

[vestal swan]

She is though and it also doesn't change the shape of her head

It's a small oval

[twin dragon]

She isnt in red memory

[fathom hill]

but we know she has horns while others weavers dont, why that is is what is being discussed

[twin dragon]

Hornet tries to remember what she looks like but all she remembers is her dreamer mask

[timber pond]

I think The Hollow Knight World has an origin Mythos that we are not told is what it means. yes, As in entities that "created it". There are things that point to it but never really delve into it, Such as The ever blooms, The land Serene, How "higher beings" interact with the world through thier aspects ect. Its very similar to other Creation myths.

[fathom hill]

wait no other weavers has horns right?

[twin dragon]

No

Theyre all ballheads

[vestal swan]

Sinner technically

[twin dragon]

Almost ballhead

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing suggests Radiance is tied to this and as you said we are not told anything about it so this isn't really evidence for... anything

[vestal swan]

!wiki herra

[fathom hill]

yah but the ballhead got cracked

[vestal swan]

The fuck you mean you don't know

[twin dragon]

!wiki herrah the beast

[vestal swan]

This bot man

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Herrah_the_Beast

Hollow Knight Wiki

Herrah the Beast

Herrah the Beast is an NPC in Hollow Knight who also appears once in Hollow Knight: Silksong. She is one of the Dreamers and is involved in the Knight's quest to destroy the Infection.

Location

Beast's Den

Affiliations

Hornet (Daughter)
Deepnest (Queen)
Weavers (Member)

Gender

Female

Actor

[Missing information]

[twin dragon]

There you go

[fathom hill]

I was gonna say maybe Herrah also got her head fucked up but maybe not

since Hornet got her head genetics

[minor hill]

hornet has a limited lifespan, right? it's just really long?

is she immortal??

[fathom hill]

really really long i believe

maybe the silk could give her even more of an extended life plus her pale genes

but idk if immortal since pk is kind of dead

[minor hill]

pk probably didn't age to death

[fathom hill]

though tbh we dont know how pk died

[minor hill]

I say immortal in regards to lifespan btw

[vestal swan]

The silks makes other things immortal and weavers can naturally produce it, GMS created an immortal race

[timber pond]

I belive that all higher beings are tied to it in some way. Moreso now That we know They influence the world In similar ways with their attributes. I also dont strictly believe that the Radiance is/isn't a "Pale being" Because what defines them isn't as concrete as we thought. IF pale beings stand above others, and the white lady herself "reveres" this "Land serene" then it is a logical conclusion to come to that there MIGHT be something above Higher beings/Pale beings.

[minor hill]

weavers are immortal?

[fathom hill]

I like to believe he did but yknow

[minor hill]

idr bro

[fathom hill]

no shotgun in sight

[twin dragon]

Not silkborns apparently

[sinful nimbus]

OK but I don't have a reason to believe any of this

[sinful nimbus]

The creation mythos is just glorified fanfic

[timber pond]

The reason is the gaps.

[sinful nimbus]

In other words...?

[twin dragon]

Thats hornet trying to remember her face

[vestal swan]

Well they need to be maintained because they are made of it, weird homunculus rules

[minor hill]

you just said she's in the red memory

[timber pond]

The information we are missing and can only assume about these Seemingly important atributes.

[twin dragon]

I meant shes not wearing her dreamer mask

[vestal swan]

But in the memory she's still wearing it, whether or not that's what her face actually looked like back then a mask did not change her head which was my entire point

[fathom hill]

literally no other reason on why it would be fuzzy otherwise, since she did apparently spent some time at least seeing her in the dreamer coffin thing

[sinful nimbus]

"We don't know anything therefore anything I make up has credibility" okay... 🥴

[timber pond]

Like looking At the negative space around an object to define it

[fathom hill]

hornet would remember the dreamer mask if she was wearing it in that moment

wouldnt show all fuzzy like

[twin dragon]

Her horns might not be just mask exclusive though

[sinful nimbus]

If there's no evidence/precedent its baseless and therefore as relevant as fan fiction

[twin dragon]

Its all fading to hornet anyways

That should tell you enough

[minor hill]

so weavers are immortal?

[vestal swan]

That works when there's also edges on the outside to define what space is actually missing, this is a circle in a void

[fathom hill]

probably?

[sinful nimbus]

You can't use the process of elimination or wtv to deduce Radiance is a primordial being related to the creation of the universe

[minor hill]

because if weavers are immortal then unless something says otherwise then that means hornet is also immortal??

[fathom hill]

But the weaver side is not what we care abt

since we see old descendants of weavers

[vestal swan]

We don't see old descendants?

We see creations

[timber pond]

Not IF something is Seemingly just put there unexplained and Designed to be Important like the everbloom. I would be fine with The surface level if team cherry didnt constantly tease us about what it is. They clearly want us to speculate on that aspect.

[fathom hill]

obviously some of these are 4ths and 8ths of weavers but yknow

[fathom hill]

the ones in the cradle

some are said to have been old or something

[minor hill]

you seem like you know what you're talking about

are weavers immortal

[fathom hill]

at the moment of retrieval'

[vestal swan]

True! I forgot about that

[minor hill]

as in they cannot die of age

[sinful nimbus]

You can speculate however you want however idrc if there's no evidence because if there's no evidence there's no reason to believe it

[fathom hill]

rude

[vestal swan]

As long as they have the ability to produce magic silk you would think so, but one of the cages as was just mentioned did list a weaver as having reached old age

[fathom hill]

😔

[minor hill]

how

[twin dragon]

Their lifespan mightve fluctuated after generations

[fathom hill]

i mean we dont see full weavers like aging now do we

[minor hill]

does "old" in that particular context mean that they were physically aging towards a decline, or that they just lived a long time

or do we not know

[vestal swan]

I think their lifespan will be fine as long as they still have the ability to produce silk, like if somehow that gets left out in the descendant they're fucked, like clearly The citadel wasn't going after Weaver's that couldn't make silk but maybe they had less control over it

[twin dragon]

True

[fathom hill]

most were killed or got turned into stone or something

[wary zinc]

is. gms. a weaver? what is her relation to them

[vestal swan]

I'm pretty sure the context is aging, I don't remember it off the top of my head though

[twin dragon]

I dont think they themselves depend on silk to live

[fathom hill]

gms made the weavers using her silk

ascending common bug

[vestal swan]

She mutated small bugs using silk to make them

[wary zinc]

ah yes

[twin dragon]

Silk is soul after all, it can extend life just like soul can

[fathom hill]

yah

[minor hill]

I see.

also I vaguely remember the dialogue about silk affecting lifespan but did that specifically say or imply that it makes bugs immortal or that it just makes them live a long time

[fathom hill]

get both and now you get a durable as hell bug

[twin dragon]

It was told bugs injected it into their shells to extend life

But at one point it mustve been crippling getting injected with it

Like with what it seems like happened to Mizello

[timber pond]

The main Crux is "How the does Everbloom resist void, A substance seemingly able to consume all that we know to exist?" If Void is primordial, there must be some kind of answer to this question. And if it ends up being a primordial "First Light" Then it would make sense that LITTERALY every entity is descendant from where it comes from. Like who Chaos Creates Titans and how titans create greek gods in myth.

What Kind of force would need to Bless these flowers to Resist a froce that has existed since the start of time? is really what the takeaway from this should be, not the semantics im putting on the table.

[vestal swan]

Does the game even use the word primordial

[minor hill]

ok I'm going to say that hornet's lifespan is a coinflip

[timber pond]

Im using it as "oldest thing" in this context

[twin dragon]

The void seems to be afraid of light in general

[minor hill]

she might be immortal she might not

[twin dragon]

And maybe soul

[minor hill]

void eats soul

[twin dragon]

Or maybe it id attracted to it inversely

[fathom hill]

this is the text thing

[sinful nimbus]

What is this yap

[twin dragon]

Since it climbs gms's strings

[fathom hill]

frail with age does mean they just aged

[sinful nimbus]

Void and the Everbloom are primordial everything after that is baseless

We don't even know why the Everbloom acts the way it does

[minor hill]

it's pretty confirmed that void eats soul considering how when you get hit by it you lose silk and silk is just a form of soul

[fathom hill]

but they were in eight part weaver so like expected in ways

[foggy fractal]

it just says first light
Witness, the first light. The only means we possess to resist that void with which our family is forever linked.

[timber pond]

I suppose? But its a logical conclusion to follow. Unless they are some kind of natural opposite.

[timber pond]

Thats my point

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not saying its illogical I'm saying its baseless therefore I don't believe it

[timber pond]

to fill in that gap with what we already see demonstrated

[twin dragon]

Maybe it shreds it

I mean it seems to be attracted to power

Like no shit

[minor hill]

I'm pretty sure void eats everything except light actuallly

[timber pond]

That's the main Disconnect really it seems. I view the hollow knight story as a series of "logical conclusions" you form based on random shit lol.

[minor hill]

and even that if it's not sufficient

[twin dragon]

Attracted to and swallowing it because it can is different

[vestal swan]

It acts inconsistently and the insertion of terms that do not exist in the game and then assigning importance to them just makes this entire argument pointless

[sinful nimbus]

There are multiple logical things you can make up but if they don't align with evidence they are as relevant as fanfic

[fathom hill]

This im asking does it only happen withthe haunting void mix or do the normal tendrils also suck up your silk?

[twin dragon]

Not sure, but pretty sure all of it does

[wary zinc]

even gods rarely live up to that title

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe the everbloom and Radiance were time travelled from the end of the world into the distant past and time traveled things naturally can resist the void that would be logical but do you believe it

[minor hill]

in this context when I say immortal I really mean indefinite lifespan

not that they literally are unable to die

[vestal swan]

Damn so like, 3 generations and apparently the silk is still important for the citadel to hunt them down but they age badly

[timber pond]

No because we see no Mechanism for time travel. IF there were i would.

[minor hill]

oh frail with age

[wary zinc]

possibly, but how did the pale king die if he wasn’t killed then

[twin dragon]

Its gms wanting to bind them back

[minor hill]

ok so hornet is probably mortal

[sinful nimbus]

There is no known mechanism for how or why the void is resisted either

[minor hill]

we don't know how pk died

[sinful nimbus]

There's not a mechanism for how the world was created even

[vestal swan]

Yeah but if the descendant is not even good with silk it's really weird that she wants them to

[sinful nimbus]

Its all speculation

[minor hill]

he probably like depressed himself to death or sm shit idfk

[timber pond]

Light and the everblooms are the mechanisim. So diffrent types of light have varying effects it seems.

[vestal swan]

GMS wanting a weaver descendant is not reclaiming anything

[twin dragon]

We dont know how good they were

[fathom hill]

Maybe they are just seeking all trace of weaver blood and cutting the ends of it, giving all of them seem to be last of their line too

[twin dragon]

Theyre still weavers therefore capable of producing silk

[fathom hill]

if they got children, they would hunt them too

[minor hill]

ok I'm swinging towards hornet not being immortal

[timber pond]

Also If Pale Oil is from Sylphean Slugs. everblooms might be from a being as well, since they are described as pale.

[twin dragon]

Though what is interesting is, there are written logs about those weavers captures

[fathom hill]

cant try it cuz ive got the everbloom in all my files huhhhh

[twin dragon]

They seem to have been written a while back

[minor hill]

the radiance is not a pale being right

[sinful nimbus]

Two things share the same properties therefore they were created in the same way 🥴

[fathom hill]

she aint, just higher

[minor hill]

ok good

[vestal swan]

The hollow knight rule is if they only share one similarity they're not related, because we can connect a lot of things if we're just going by one similarity

Mantises and thk
Zotes weapon and every other piece of wood we see
I'm tired and I'm not going to continue this list etc

[fathom hill]

i mean id guess the trek back to pharloom must be pretty long

must have been a stretch of time since each capture

maybe some weavers are being captured as we speak they just havent gone back yet

[minor hill]

nooo zote is from shellwood I know it 😭😭😭😭😭 /s

[fathom hill]

imagine they are in the vast wasteland, gms dies and then the choirbugs are just like lost now with the caged weaver

[vestal swan]

Nyleth herself could be foreign so shellwould can absolutely exist in other places

[fathom hill]

oh well sucks to be them

[vestal swan]

That would just be the opening sequence happening like all over the place with weavers getting out

[timber pond]

Not saying that. But Pale ore Is also mysterious and tied to pale beings, often highly coveted. IDK In hollow knight did you ever consider that silk had magic powers because it was from a higher being? i sure didnt but it seems thats how team chery operates with every magical substance or thing in this world to some extent.

[teal drift]

Tbf if shellwood is a common type of material, naming your local forest “shellwood” is a bit like naming your forest “oak tree”

[vestal swan]

It could also be possible that that scenario is unfolding, like how it's entirely possible more vessels than TK escape the kingdom

[teal drift]

TC was too scared to have a random vessel roll up in pharloom

[spark valve]

If you’re in an isolated area with one forest it is plenty plausible you would just call your forest Forest

[teal drift]

Imagine the craziness if game 3 is vessel #456

[fathom hill]

truee

[vestal swan]

We are not getting a game three

[fathom hill]

interesting connection if true

[timber pond]

based on what

[minor hill]

idc as long as the dlc has more herald

[teal drift]

Game 3 in 2045

[vestal swan]

TC saying it

[fathom hill]

yah game 3 aint getting out for a while, tc has stated they will be working in ss for a while

[minor hill]

tc confirmed

[sinful nimbus]

No there are numerous magic substances not tied to higher beings what

[spark valve]

A lot of place names are basically just [word for x geographical feature in another language] x geographical feature

[teal drift]

Rio river

[sinful nimbus]

"They might tie this into a higher being in the future" isn't evidence

[timber pond]

They also said "allendings are cannon" in that same ama you speak of😂

[vestal swan]

And then they gave the sequel more alternate endings

[minor hill]

this has not been disproven lol

[fathom hill]

they apparently got years of content for ss in the future so, probably not?

[vestal swan]

So?

[teal drift]

Yeah they said all endings are canon but its clearly only sealed siblings

[minor hill]

all endings can still be canon they're just not all continuous with each other

[vestal swan]

Everything can still be canon, it's just that everything doesn't lead to this timeline

[fathom hill]

also they did say that if they make another game itll probably not be the hk ip

[teal drift]

Ip slop forever

TC can never leave their IP i will rebel and cry

[fathom hill]

which is kind of supported gving they may be working on fearless fox which is something we dont know anything abt yet

[vestal swan]

They said after the second project they were going to take a break from this universe or something like that

[sinful nimbus]

TC can always change their mind but atm we have no reason to assume that

[teal drift]

I dont think fearless fox is coming until 2045

[fathom hill]

But of course TC has said multiple things over the years and these things may not be accurate currently

[minor hill]

the inconspicuous and non nefarious playable lace dlc announcement /j

[fathom hill]

but the years of content of ss it the most true cuz they said it literally like a month ago

[teal drift]

Lace doesnt have the aura of a playable character

[fathom hill]

:c

[sinful nimbus]

I for one would welcome a new IP maybe we'll get the first well written world since 2017 🙏

[teal drift]

GMS DLC >>>>

[minor hill]

she is fucking dead

[fathom hill]

I like lace, wouldnt mind playing as her

[teal drift]

Nah she alive

Benjin and Crull DLC

[fathom hill]

but prolly not since lace and hornet are too similar apparently

[sinful nimbus]

You say that until you fight Lost Grandmother Silk in Lost Godhome while the Shade Lord watches in the background

[minor hill]

paper Mario RPG style spinoff

[fathom hill]

Voided GMS dlc

[teal drift]

Awakened GMS

[fathom hill]

its just like a screen of dead gms

[final sphinx]

Why do u even hate benjin and crull

[timber pond]

Yeah That's what i expect them to say. Point is, im not privy to the idea that "they said it 7 years ago so they cant change thier minds". And it sounds like they really enjoyed this process and haven't lost any steam (Like they assumed they might in that same AMA) so , I dont Know! really.

[minor hill]

apr 1 2027

[fathom hill]

like the zote dlc concept that got scrapped

[teal drift]

The version of gms we face is practically sleepwalking

[sinful nimbus]

They died in Act 3 locking me out of 100% because my game is bugged and the tacks never showed up

[fathom hill]

meet the potential higher being

[teal drift]

Guys: ballow DLC

[fathom hill]

fuckk where is the image

[final sphinx]

I agree, they shouldn’t have even been in the game

[vestal swan]

Okay but it's a lot weirder to assume the intent of the dev changing because it's been a long amount of time, as opposed to just taking what they said at face value

[fathom hill]

"trust guys she is actually super busted she is just sleeping trust"

[fathom hill]

is anyone favorite ending sealed siblings

i like the fact that the seal is hornet but hornet is inside thats funny

[timber pond]

Well clearly they are being Tricky about it. What pepole wanted to know "are all endings cannon" question is "what ending is cannon to silksong" so They told a half truth that didn't really answer the question. Not to mention William Likes to be Mr mushroom with his wording. So i have a hard tiem taking what they said "at Face Value" because the value of that Face is questionable

[sinful nimbus]

Me because Hornet gets locked up and plausibly dies 🗣️

[fathom hill]

really cool star

i totally didnt expect you for you to say that\

[sinful nimbus]

My values are set in stone

[fathom hill]

we know

[vestal swan]

Sealed siblings would be good if when TK showed up their eyes were glowing

Because it would confirm the seal breaking bugs conversation we had 37 million times

[sinful nimbus]

What does that even mean

[vestal swan]

If TK showed up, helped hornet, but then their eyes flashed orange.

[sinful nimbus]

???

[minor hill]

tk was fucked up they ain't doing shit

[sinful nimbus]

What half truth

[vestal swan]

In the scenario that sealed siblings leads to silksong the entire black eggs spells could be fucked up, releasing a TK with radiance inside

[sinful nimbus]

They were just wrong SS doesn't take place after all endings 💔

[timber pond]

This

Like Idk I know i bend over backwards for interpritations because its fun and cool and what hollow knight is all about. But this one just seems straight foward

[fathom hill]

i dont understand what you mean

like the lack of seals would make of a knight that escapes the egg?

with the radiance inside

[vestal swan]

Yes

[fathom hill]

but there is a seal, hornet is the seal

[minor hill]

oh my theory is that the radiance just eventually broke the seal since TK isnt hollow and then TK and hornet just fight to the death/she just gets TF out of there since with no dreamers the egg isnt sealed

[fathom hill]

it shows outside the door

[vestal swan]

Yes but in the scenario that leads to silksong hornet would have been removed

Am I horribly wording this or something it's not rocket science

[fathom hill]

so hornet would have to die for the knight to actually escape the egg no?

not just missplaced

unless they found a backdoor which

[vestal swan]

No, just be removed after the spell is deactivated by bullshit seal breaking

[minor hill]

or the seal just needed to be broken

[vestal swan]

Runecage is deactivated by a fly

[minor hill]

what is the deal with that actually

[fathom hill]

who freed them then

elderbug?

[minor hill]

what are the little light butterfly things

[fathom hill]

honestly thats funny i could believe it

[minor hill]

radiance broke free

broke the seal since TK is not hollow

hornet wakes up because seal is broken

sketchy theory at best but plausible

[vestal swan]

Okay here's the scenario
Full chamber rolls up on hollownest
Hornet and TK are sealed
They bust the seal open with a silk fly
It fucks up the rest of the temple because it operates on detecting things and automatic magic
They take hornet and the game takes place
TK shows up to help
Radiance is a back seat passenger

[fathom hill]

where did the silk fly come from

Silk flies and whatever hk has are different im sure

unless the silk flies kind of just migrated to other places outside pharloom and got into hallownest

ah the caravan

[minor hill]

I think thk/sealed sibs aren't continuous with sotv if that's what you're implying at the end

[fathom hill]

ok maybe

[vestal swan]

Pharloom ?
If they can do shit like this you got to think they're bringing something similar with them on trips like this, it's a Uno reverse card of magic

[minor hill]

what are the little silk flies deals btw

[fathom hill]

yah yah i gotchu

[vestal swan]

No Im not saying those lead to silk song, ETV leads to silksong, I was just discussing the scenario of how it could have happened

[minor hill]

what is theyre lore
holy fuck theyre

what is their lore

[fathom hill]

doesnt matter either way since ig we need voidheart

unless tk while hornet was absent kind of did allat

no wait we could just get voidheart with sealed siblings no?

[minor hill]

I don't think we could

[fathom hill]

thats like a requirement only not to use it

since we need hornet inside the egg

[minor hill]

wait no ueah

yeah we literally have void heart in sealed sib

I forgot lol

[fathom hill]

ok maybe we did achieve the point of making sealed siblings viable

[vestal swan]

They glow, they might be homunculi forged from dead bugs souls/recycled silk
They might be able to carry information like commands to the robots that they are inside of

[minor hill]

ok then I guess theoretically sealed sib can be continuous to sotv

[fathom hill]

for a bit since hornet would have to have memories of it ig

[minor hill]

what the fuckk??

[fathom hill]

hornet says that she got ambushed or something

[toxic mulch]

Haha whiteward lore is fucked up

[fathom hill]

also she did learn shit that couldnt have been possible if she just stayed in the egg for years

[minor hill]

where do you find the silk butterfly thing lore

[toxic mulch]

Sheer numbers seem to have overwhelmed her

[fathom hill]

unless she just did a lot of instrospection or something

[minor hill]

physically
in game

[timber pond]

whiteward MAchine

[toxic mulch]

Secret room in whiteward

[minor hill]

also she literally gets got by a single dude with a cage before the slab sequence lol

[fathom hill]

still we would need a way to crack the knights mask, since they arent in the void even with voidheart yet

[toxic mulch]

If I had to pick any HK ending to be canon it'd be dream no more

[minor hill]

radiance definitely kills them eventually

[toxic mulch]

Thematically it just feels the best as an ending

[minor hill]

yeah
but also etv is a fun what if

[toxic mulch]

I wonder if team cherry will make sister of the void the canon ending

[minor hill]

there is no definitively canon ending/set of endings and there likely won't be

[fathom hill]

aint it funny how tc made sense of the fact we couldnt give a flower to hornet in hk

[minor hill]

all the endings are "true" as long as you don't go like thk>sotv lol

[fathom hill]

maybe shouldnt have been that ungrateful now huh

[toxic mulch]

That was stated for hk it's likely the same with silksong but you never know

[silk dirge]

radiance gonna go like "whos this? a copycat? let me destroy this fraud"

radiance would probably annihilate gms

like it would not be close

[minor hill]

I think we still should have been able to give her the flower :(

honestly it would make the red memory cooler but that would directly affect it so it wouldn't make sense for the knight to be omitted from rm in that case

[vestal swan]

You know if I want to be stubborn and play devil's advocate thk ending could also lead to silksong
All it requires is the black egg temple being opened, because it's no longer sealed. Then TK has to kill whoever comes in and escape

[minor hill]

unfortunate we will never get like a complete anniversary edition set for the games or sm like that to fill in all the little gaps

[fathom hill]

no voidheart tho

[silk dirge]

yeah

[minor hill]

TK is fucking dead in thk

and in sealed sibs but that don't matter since they got voidheart

[vestal swan]

You don't need voidheart, TK attacks the tentacles

[silk dirge]

anyways i wonder what would happen if like radiance didnt hate gms

[fathom hill]

unless dude did allat in hornets absense

[vestal swan]

Yes they will eventually die but the endings does not suggest the actual passage of time

[silk dirge]

ultimate yuri

[minor hill]

no kingsoul cant

[fathom hill]

which sure, but dude would have died in the wyrm collapse thing

[minor hill]

I mean I guessssssss

[silk dirge]

pharloom and hallownest would be so cooked

infected haunting

[fathom hill]

could you get kingsoul and then get thk ending?

[silk dirge]

yeah

[minor hill]

I guess??

[fathom hill]

so maybe in that case?

[silk dirge]

only vh locks you out

[minor hill]

this is so dumb LMAO

[silk dirge]

anyways can we discuss what the implications of radiance gms yuri would be

[minor hill]

although that wouldn't make the siblings behind tk make sense

[fathom hill]

this wouldnt happen if tc hasnt said that shit

[minor hill]

if sotv followed thk

[fathom hill]

that probably isnt even relevant now

[minor hill]

void is not unified

why would they be there like that

tk needs vh for sotv to make sense

[sinful nimbus]

Infected Grand Mother Silk

[left dune]

void given form

[minor hill]

what is your point

[fathom hill]

ok but listen what if they just made it in hornets absence

[silk dirge]

also my hrt appointment is in 20 minutes should i ask where they source the hrt to make sure it doesnt come from whiteward /j

[fathom hill]

the trek is really long

like imagine it being really long first ok

[minor hill]

yes that's technically possible

[fathom hill]

and then tk doesnt need hornet except if it is for kingsoul

[minor hill]

in like a really stupid way

I guess TK could make void heart as long as they have the king soul

[static narwhal]

It's fine if you get it from Whiteward, you gotta worry if you get it from Yarnaby

[fathom hill]

ok i got an idea what if

[midnight reef]

I wouldnt have minded that to be the case

[silk dirge]

if my hrt is from whiteward im getting fucking haunted 😭

[fathom hill]

no wait

[silk dirge]

i do not wish to get haunted by gms while transitioning

[midnight reef]

but look, as much as act 3 fucks stuff up, I really like the end

[minor hill]

trusting anywhere in pharloom with your prescription is crazy

[fathom hill]

for thk ending, wouldnt that undermine the idea that we got a bond with hornet? did we bond even by that point

[teal drift]

Lifeblooded grandmother silk

[fathom hill]

if we didnt bond with hornet sotv wouldnt have happened with thk ending

unless we get the bonding by the point of hornet sentinel

[silk dirge]

oh yeah speaking of that can we discuss how sherma getting healing supplies from whiteward is kinda cooked

[fathom hill]

in that case it could be plausible

[teal drift]

What if we did dashless hollow knight and only encountered hornet in beasts den

[minor hill]

everyone is dying anyway what choice was there

[silk dirge]

like healing supplies in whiteward CANNOT be safe for regular use

bro wants to turn all of songclave into dregwheels

[fathom hill]

they may be they make bugs immortal

[teal drift]

Hornet rlly found rusty needles laying around and used them to inject sheself

[minor hill]

hornet got a back alley abortion with needles that "hardly began to rust" and she came out stronger I'm sure they'll be fine

[fathom hill]

sherma abt to give everyone whiteward stds 💔

[silk dirge]

i love it when i get a disease that turns me into a dregwheel

this is peak form

you may or may not like it but it is

[minor hill]

lmaoo

[fathom hill]

Believe in the conductors

they probably know what theyre doing

[vestal swan]

Oh there's the other anime reference I couldn't remember

[fathom hill]

honestly its a great tool

[silk dirge]

i dont think dregwheels are a reference to anime but go ahead

[fathom hill]

cant even blame her cuz im part of the problem

[vestal swan]

They thought the memes were really funny so they Incorporated "get stick bugged" and "nah i'd win"

[minor hill]

is this our moderation team

[silk dirge]

they also incorporated wilted rose

[fathom hill]

which is the latter

[minor hill]

is that like
fucking zemer
how tf

[fathom hill]

garmond?

[vestal swan]

"nah I'd win" aura

[silk dirge]

this is a REAL sprite made by REAL ari gibsons

[vestal swan]

Yes, I said it as soon as I saw it I wanted that as an emote

[minor hill]

dawg

[silk dirge]

bro is being hypocritical didnt you tell star to stop using wilted rose 😭

[minor hill]

gg

[fathom hill]

dc mods being hypocritical? who could have seen it coming

[minor hill]

checkmate liberal

[vestal swan]

Nyleths fight was unironically just so 🥀 too

[fathom hill]

[vestal swan]

Start over uses it but I think it's really funny because it really fits nyleth

Also I said this like a total of two times

[minor hill]

🥀

[silk dirge]

nyleth is so funny bc shes right after seth

tbh nyleth does look fun if you clawline a lot

it definitely looks like an acquired taste type fight

[minor hill]

I didn't mind nyleth

[silk dirge]

same

not my favorite boss but i appreciated the unique concept

[minor hill]

honestly I can't really think of any fights that I just straight up didn't like

wait no

garmond

fuck you garmond I fucking hate you

ruined a perfectly good story arc with a shitass bossfight

[sinful nimbus]

Nyleth x Shaman Crest ❤️‍🩹

"perfectly good story arc" 🧢

[vestal swan]

I forgot to use clawline in so many fights

[silk dirge]

why does shaman crest even have that heal

[vestal swan]

I was mostly gliding and spamming tools before she could swap walls

[minor hill]

you right actually garmond is just stupid

[silk dirge]

same

[minor hill]

it's just free damage (I forgot too)

[silk dirge]

i wish silksoar was designed differently so you could make it cool for a boss fight

[sinful nimbus]

❤️

[minor hill]

galaga hornet 💔

[silk dirge]

then again cdash wasnt that good for things outside of aura moments

[sinful nimbus]

MHRise Amatsu

[fathom hill]

I think I've only used clawline like with sinner once for the heal interrupting

[minor hill]

sth3 doomsday zone bossfight in hk

[vestal swan]

I was so disappointed that shaman crest wasn't going to let you bind a living enemy for health/silk, instead it just threw you on to the ground. I stupidly tried to use it in the Pogo the flying bugs part of path of pain 2...

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[vestal swan]

Shaman crest really should let you eat another bug for the heal

[minor hill]

you're so right

[sinful nimbus]

I thought it would be an attack where you stab the enemies head

[silk dirge]

ok tbh that would be cool

[minor hill]

I was so disappointed that the bind did not have a hitbox

[vestal swan]

I tried it so many times thinking I was just missing or something

[fathom hill]

It seems to be the intended thing with the animation

[minor hill]

TS made me mad

[silk dirge]

make it heal like an extra heart or two if you do that

[minor hill]

2 > 3

[fathom hill]

maybe playtesters found it too difficult to hit?

[vestal swan]

Cuz the heal looks like a bind you would use on a corpse?? I'm not insane right

[silk dirge]

i mean it would be in addition to current heal

[sinful nimbus]

too difficult to hit so they made it never hit

[silk dirge]

if it replaced the current heal shaman crest would be unusable

[fathom hill]

at least you heal

like imagine that but it works like beast or witch

so you get fucked if you miss

[minor hill]

what if it reanimated the corpse

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[fathom hill]

necromancy in ss?

[minor hill]

necromancer hornet

[sinful nimbus]

Steel Crest replaces your bind with a compress that turns your enemies into steel robots

[minor hill]

if you compress peanut butter hard enough it turns into diamonds headass

[vestal swan]

Technically we already have three necromancers, 4? Maybe 5

[fathom hill]

we should be the ones designing ss fr what were they doin these past years 💔

[silk dirge]

hydraulic press yt channel crest

[minor hill]

I knew the game was rushed

[fathom hill]

I'm turning into star sorry back to normal programming

[minor hill]

tc need a class in game design smfh 80-20 rule hello??

[fathom hill]

who

[sinful nimbus]

2 years on polish 🥀 (Red tools are literally the worst possible way to design them)

[minor hill]

6/10 game

[sinful nimbus]

At least Lace 1 can attack you if you try cheesing her with walljump ❤️‍🩹

[fathom hill]

hk was better fr

[minor hill]

I lowk like the charm system better yeah

[fathom hill]

Literally unplayable

[sinful nimbus]

Charms were awfully balanced

[minor hill]

charm balancing was ass but that was the only bad part

[vestal swan]

Rad GMS Whiteward Lifeblood PK(?) Sula(?)

[sinful nimbus]

Blue and red tool balance is pretty good tbh

[minor hill]

tool system feels like an arbitrary way to limit build diversity

[fathom hill]

oh right the haunting

[sinful nimbus]

?

[vestal swan]

The only issue I have with tool balance is yellows are pretty useless in endgame, and greed was really late

[minor hill]

maybe if most of the slots were any tool and the only like vesticrests or crests could be upgraded for wildcard slots or sm

[sinful nimbus]

If anything is the opposite because if you want to throw on a little silly QoL tool in the yellow section its not competing with the big damage dealers in the blue and red sections

[minor hill]

that is true

but it's still a little too much imo

dedicated yellow slots are prolly fine

[fathom hill]

i just put steady body and the speed yellows everything else is situational

[sinful nimbus]

sbody is a yellow?

[fathom hill]

im sure it is

[sinful nimbus]

My HK brain wasn't throwing it on because I thought it was competing with actually good stuff

[fathom hill]

or what name it has ig

[minor hill]

build diversity and synergies are one of my favorite gameplay mechanics

silksong could have been better in that regard

[fathom hill]

We really need more synergies

[minor hill]

hopefully dlc really expands on crest and tool system but unlikely

[fathom hill]

thats isnt the pollip pouch again

[minor hill]

lol real

[sweet shale]

how is this lore

[fathom hill]

we got strayed coming back

[minor hill]

hello scrounge's digestive system

[sweet shale]

yo wassup

its horrible here

[minor hill]

hi welcome to the hollow Knight community

[sweet shale]

thank you

bye

[minor hill]

lace age discourse isn't a thing anymore right

[sweet shale]

not really

[sinful nimbus]

It is

[minor hill]

fym

[sinful nimbus]

Close enough welcome back vessel purity ❤️‍🩹

[sweet shale]

i just ignore it

[minor hill]

guys tk is pure

zote is a vessel

[fathom hill]

we talk abt it every other day or so

we shoudl do what some servers do, ban it unless its friday or something

lace age fridays

[minor hill]

the purge

[fathom hill]

but tbh if they did that this chat would be like mostly dead until fridays

[sinful nimbus]

Why would you limit the funniest convo on the server to only fridays

[minor hill]

neurotransmitter detox

[fathom hill]

yah yah for good health

[midnight reef]

oh thats a really cool idea

I know its just unused content, I really want to know what the Hallownest Seal crest was planned for

this one

[compact pelican]

old hunter's crest design

[midnight reef]

its just a bit odd to me that its also in the atlas with the rest of the creasts

its not impossible that Team Cherry just didnt want to remove it

rest of the clearly finished crests*

[sinful nimbus]

wyrm crest is tuff

But TC hates dragons 😔

[compact pelican]

ok

doesn't really change the fact the filename is Crest__0005_hunter_old

[midnight reef]

yeah

not impossible that Team Cherry has new plans for it

also fleatopia theme is reused from the Coral Gorge?!

[compact pelican]

sure, but there are a lot of not impossible things team cherry might do in the future

[midnight reef]

thats fucking wild, it got the instrumentation redone

[sinful nimbus]

City of Steel 🗣️

[compact pelican]

I fucking hate the city of steel

it's like the battle of the blackwyrm all over again

[frigid belfry]

extremely likely we get more about it in dlc

we have entire enemies, references, even bosses from the city of steel (widow)

even the guy who would bring your shade back in hk seemed to be related

[lethal burrow]

widow is not from the city of steel 💀

[frigid belfry]

heavily implied she was taken and imprisoned for a while, poor wording on my end

lemme get the receipts

[lethal burrow]

It's not heavily implied either

[limpid summit]

Difference is city of steel is HAPPENING BABY

[frigid belfry]

"Weaver, in quarter part, last of their line, staked to service.
Tracked and taken beneath the City of Steel.
Eight Choristors, twelve Envoys lost to task." widow is likely not full weaver, checkmark, widow has been staked (literally stakes in her back) to service

[compact pelican]

if we get city of steel then it will no longer be the same as battle of the blackwyrm
at the moment it is the exact same in that we have one (1) mention of it with no proof anything else is connected to it

it being called "steel" is about as strong an argument as the colosseum being built inside the blackwyrm (read: not a strong argument)

[lethal burrow]

"The last... The last...
Eternity... Alone...
Hear her heart!
Hear her voice!
The gift, of strength and Silk...
For you, holy mother... all for you..."

and

"Penitent, Twelfth of the First.
Guilty of an unnamed sin.
Penance by casting.
Absolution not granted."

The game is pretty clear in implying She's a full Weaver.

[frigid belfry]

i mean we have 3 mentions so far, and the steel assasins at least were backer content (all backer content has been added so far), so its likely we will get more on the city of steel in the future

[compact pelican]

widow is likely not full weaver
Out of where did you pull this lovely falsehood?

[compact pelican]

We have one (1) mention, the choral commandment you listed

There is no other mention of the City of Steel

[sinful nimbus]

Steel City being connected to the Steel Clan is perfectly plausible

I mean c'mon its a lot different than one throwaway line added in DLC 🥴

[lethal burrow]

also, that message is saying the city of steel Weaver spawn was stacked to service IN the city of steel, like they were working at the city of steel.

[frigid belfry]

all fullblood weavers have distinct traits, widow is one of 2 weavers we've seen that look completely different (herrah and her), we know herrah is full weaver, so its possible being the only weaver that gave birth changed her, but widow has different traits altogether (small head, different limbs)

[frigid belfry]

steel seer zi

[lethal burrow]

widow looks different because her mask was removed.

[sinful nimbus]

Widow had her mask ripped off

[frigid belfry]

yeah thats what i said

[sinful nimbus]

Her limbs aren't that different

Weavers have trouble breeding idk why she would be partial weaver

[compact pelican]

Does Zi mention the "City of Steel" at any point or does she just talk about her masters (hint: there is one mention of the City of Steel in the game, and it's not by Zi)

[frigid belfry]

the first sinner cutscene clearly shows that giant bulb head isnt all mask

[lethal burrow]

so you don't believe it was anyone in pharloom who lodged her silk within her shell??

[sinful nimbus]

What?

Its part of her body that Widow had removed as confirmed in her journal entry

[lethal burrow]

I don't think mask means ornamental fashion in this context

[sinful nimbus]

"Her body seemed a Weaver's, but her mask had been forcibly removed, and her own Silk was bound useless by heavy pins lodged through her spine"

[frigid belfry]

its not hard evidence, but steel is a strong case that she is related to the city of steel

[lethal burrow]

I think all the steel things being related makes a lot of sense

[limpid summit]

Widow’s face was ripped off

[compact pelican]

It's theory lore doc material, not canon statement material

[frigid belfry]

yeah, i know her mask has been removed, but lets say she was full weaver and had those bulb heads weavers do, is that ALL her mask?

[limpid summit]

Mister mushroom’s speech heralds the end of Hallownest by talking about caps and shells and Wyrms

But his speech doesn’t refer to Pharloom in Silksong

[lethal burrow]

Yes, the round orb is her mask

[limpid summit]

It refers to the steel city

[frigid belfry]

yeah thats confirmed from the mask maker lines, im just saying its likely widow isnt full weaver

[unique canopy]

She's described as a Weaver without her mask and silk, she looks like a Weaver without a mask, her memory which comes from her alone shows the Weavers playing their song for GMS which wouldn't make sense for her to know if she wasn't a Weaver, she shares voice acting, music, and most of her moveset with First Sinner who's a full Weaver, she calls herself last of the first as in first children which is what the Weavers are described as, and Hornet herself is a 1/2 Weaver and looks radically different from full Weavers so a 1/4 Weaver would look even more different
vs
one lore entry that you have to interpret in a very specific way to make it describe Widow

[limpid summit]

“Stone shall break and steel shall rust”

It’s the end for the Masters

[compact pelican]

I don't deny the plausibility of this connection, but it shouldn't be treated like it's canon

[frigid belfry]

the ENTIRE round orb is her mask?

[midnight zinc]

For what it’s worth, sula the vassal mentions fleeing from “spires” which allude to a city of some kind. I think it’s pretty clear this is what they’re going for.

[lethal burrow]

and I'm disagreeing.

I think she is the 12th of the first children

[lethal burrow]

yes

[compact pelican]

which is what every three out of four people I've seen do for whatever reason

[frigid belfry]

yeah i never said its cannon, ive been saying its likely widow is the weaver mentioned in the cradle

[limpid summit]

“Rock of the home spear” skyscraper

[ancient sinew]

We know the Masters’ homeland is comprised of spires, Xi says as much

[limpid summit]

Hey I’m the #1 melmetal fan bro

[sinful nimbus]

Its not confirmed if that's what you're saying i dont recall anyone saying that

[limpid summit]

Stop that

[midnight zinc]

Can’t wait until we find out it’s just Dubai

[sinful nimbus]

Zi*

[limpid summit]

“Time to find this giant city built on slave labor”
“Wait it’s just Dubai?”

[lethal burrow]

I'm disagreeing that it's even likely though

[compact pelican]

?? I'm talking about the unproved city of steel connection to people like zi. I still have no idea what you're on about with widow

unproven*

[limpid summit]

City of steel connection is stronger than Blackwyrm

The steel servants permeate many aspects of SS

[midnight zinc]

She mentions a “home spear” but I don’t remember her mentioning spires

[lethal burrow]

they think widow is the Weaver-spawn who was working under the city of steel

[limpid summit]

Well that’s not true

[frigid belfry]

hornets looks can be explained by her wyrm lineage and that fact that herrah literally looks completely different from normal weavers so that isnt a strong case, + im saying her physical traits make it POSSIBLE that she is not full weaver

[limpid summit]

Staked to service isn’t literal and widow doesn’t even have stakes in her

[midnight zinc]

What does the blackwyrm (allegedly) have to do with this?

[limpid summit]

Trying to Blackwyrm theorize is more baseless than trying to connect the city of steel to the Masters

[lethal burrow]

Earlier in the conversation, it was asserted that the city of steel is silk songs version of the black worm in which people try to connect everything to it

[ancient sinew]

I mean

[compact pelican]

and the city of steel, curiously, does not. again, one mention, and not even by zi or sth

[frigid belfry]

the cradle mention is the weaver taken to the city of steel, my argument is that the weaver mentioned is widow

[ancient sinew]

There’s not really much to it

[limpid summit]

I suppose it’s the Blackwyrm in that sense

[ancient sinew]

I find myself agreeing with Godfriend here

[frigid belfry]

very possible im wrong, all im saying is that its a possibility that i believe in

thanks for the debate

[limpid summit]

But I think steel servants to city of steel is more solid than blackwyrm to cof

[lethal burrow]

I think in situations like this we are left to consider what the developers were trying to convey

[midnight zinc]

I see, well I don’t agree with that at all since there’s far more to this theory than anything people say about the Blackwyrm, that’s literally just one line that has no bearing on the rest of the game, it’s not even from the base game, it’s from the journal entry for an optional DLC boss.

[frigid belfry]

yeah the latter had very little correlation while the steel one is pretty convincing

[limpid summit]

This is true

[ancient sinew]

While it’s entirely possible the City of Steel is indeed linked to the Steel Masters given its supposed association with the alloy, we simply don’t know anything about it

[limpid summit]

A lot of people don’t understand this

[lethal burrow]

I agree that the city of steel is related to the people of steel

[compact pelican]

??????? this is like. even stupider than what I'm talking about. Like I can understand the connection people draw between city of steel and zi but this is just baseless completely

[frigid belfry]

yo that would be goofy as hell but ig its possible

[limpid summit]

This is what you have to use for Skynx Nosk and WL Greyroot

Not just actual similarities but intention

[ancient sinew]

It’s not mentioned by Zi, or Sula, or anywhere else. It’s basically a throwaway line

[limpid summit]

and Nuu and Unn

[ancient sinew]

If TC revisit it in future DLC, great, until then it’s just another Blackwyrm

[frigid belfry]

how so? is there zero possibility that the weaver mentioned is widow, all im arguing is that there is a possibility

[lethal burrow]

and Hunter Weaver

[ancient sinew]

Nothing conclusive

[limpid summit]

When*

[sinful nimbus]

If the weaver in the city of steel was Widow Widow would be consumed by GMS

[silk dirge]

widow explicitly says she remained

[midnight zinc]

Regardless, even if the city of steel is somehow not related to the steel masters, that’s somewhat irrelevant to me because the amount that the masters ARE talked about by Zi and the amount of new lore we learn about them makes me think we’re going to be seeing more of them anyways.

[silk dirge]

widow literally calls hornet "spawn of those who dared to flee"

[lethal burrow]

he does cold horn at spawn of those who dared to flee so she's at least old enough to have seen the weavers of the past leave the kingdom.

So I don't know the timeline makes any sense

[frigid belfry]

who would then implant spines in her back and cut off her silk? an asleep GMS?

[silk dirge]

other weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers

[lethal burrow]

The other Weaver's

[frigid belfry]

damn that could make sense

[unique canopy]

Widow was the last remaining loyalist to GMS when the other Weavers betrayed her.

[silk dirge]

how would widow and first sinner get along in a weaver family reunion

[compact pelican]

oh yeah I'm pretty sure we'll probably get to maybe see something about them. Obviously though we have no confirmation of this and no one should develop unreasonable levels of expectations which is part of the reason city of steel pisses me off so much

[silk dirge]

theyd for sure start throwing shit at eachother

[lethal burrow]

I think they would literally hate each other more than anyone else

They are exact opposites

[visual glacier]

What’s the discussion

[compact pelican]

I've seen people bitching, complaining, being entitled, and generally being unpleasant to be around due to silksong not matching some fantasy version of it they built in their head out of all the hype for the game

[frigid belfry]

WE all know widow is the weaver taken beneath the city of steel

[silk dirge]

someone arguing widow is the steel city weaver

[visual glacier]

Maybe

[lethal burrow]

City of steel and widow

[foggy fractal]

no bugpipers 😔

[visual glacier]

Not confirmed but plausible

[silk dirge]

i wouldnt say so

[lethal burrow]

we?

[frigid belfry]

yes we cuh

[sinful nimbus]

lmao what

[silk dirge]

Oh! Ohhhh! They shall join... Union upon your thread... A gift, for your waking. A world strung to serve...

Hornet: Creature, your claws guide those cursed threads, but you are not their source. What role do you play in this vile affliction?

Ohhhh! She is here! The rare birthling! Precious child of Wyrm and Weaver!
Spawn of those who dared to flee. She has found her way home... at last.

[timber pond]

I cant really see it being coverd in DLC Is the main thing. They seem so disconnected from Silksong and Hollow Knight that I simply think they are going to make another game😭

[limpid summit]

Ooooo 👻🏢🏢🏢

[compact pelican]

And I hate to see people treating things like they're already canon and that we'll definitely get so-and-so in a future expansion because I just know there will be people who will complain about it if we don't end up getting something like that (and I mean, like, really complain and be really loud and annoying about it everywhere)

[sinful nimbus]

Dawg just complaining preemptively about annoying fans 😭 🙏

[limpid summit]

They knew we were already here

[frigid belfry]

i mean its pretty plausible to get city of steel lore in dlc, the steel assassins were backer content, and nearly all backer content has been added (TC is suprisingly faithful) mb only sharpe was backer

[sinful nimbus]

I would definitely complain if the steel guys weren't fleshed out because those were an interesting thing advertised and more importantly Sharpe is a backer character

[midnight zinc]

Team Cherry has shown that they’re actually willing to follow up on major ideas they set up years prior, with the Everbloom and Shade Lord and such. I don’t really care about other peoples’ expectations, being bothered by other peoples’ disappointment is a waste of my time. The steel masters are simply the most interesting mystery still lingering in the HK lore that exists in both games, and the fact that they not only added to their lore but said way more than we were ever given in the first game makes it pretty clear to me it’s a direction they’re gonna go in eventually.

[fathom hill]

i mean thats what you expect from any community ig

[silk dirge]

i mean i think team cherry has definitely provided enough exposition for steel city to be likely + they literally have to add a character from steel city bc its a backer character

[compact pelican]

no I'm complaining about existing fans and hoping no one will be stupid enough to build too-high expectations again and become a new wave of little entitled bitches

[frigid belfry]

idk man possible she was a weaver who thought of betraying gms, but instead stayed, and was punished by implantation in the city of steel, possible

[sinful nimbus]

OK that wasn't really relevant to the original comment but pop off

[vestal swan]

Well on one hand you have the lacenet lunatics, and on the other you have the people angry about the like 12ish retcons

[timber pond]

I just kind of think team cherrys inability to "stop" will just expand them more and more since thier lore is split across games (and is permadeath mode)

[lean temple]

I mean Sharpe could give a little more Masters lore at the end of his quest and be done with it. They could reveal a lot or not at all

[ancient sinew]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to be disappointed with the fact that the final product doesn’t resemble what we were shown in pre-release materials in many respects, with some of the things people were most excited for like Coral Gorge, Pharloom Bay, and the Steel Gang being seemingly cut from the game and other things like Seth, Karmelita, and Verdania having underwent significant rewrites that, frankly, feel rather rushed and leave much to be desired. There are also legitimate complaints people have with the game whether that’s in terms design or writing and to dismiss that as annoying fans “bitching” because the game didn’t match their fantasies is both rude and rather reductive.

[frigid belfry]

but we can all agree white lady has dream presience

[compact pelican]

No it's not, I didn't see anything here like that before silksong's release
this community was the best ever before the game came out

[fathom hill]

lacenet mentioned

[frigid belfry]

most communities have weird obsessions, but some new people in the hkss community amplified what you see, valid complaint

[silk dirge]

yeah silksong is a great game but team cherry makes mistakes they are human like us for someone to criticize those mistakes is perfectly fine

[sinful nimbus]

City of steel joke
"Dude I hate those WHINY FANS WHO ARE CONSTANTLY COMPLAINING THE OLD COMMUNITY WAS SO MUCH BETTER"

[fathom hill]

ig thats you building an image of the community that also didnt exist, arent you the entitled one?

[compact pelican]

there's discussion and there's bitching. I've seen both and the former is fine and constructive, the latter just leaves a bad taste

[limpid summit]

Because all the games we had were good 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[fathom hill]

honestly with ss also becoming mainstream its expected, but i havent heard any bitching yet ig

[midnight zinc]

They could, which would be fine with me, but at the same time I don’t fully agree that they’re totally disconnected. The knight with the Voidheart is explicitly stated by Jinn to be comparable in some way to these masters, and they don’t seem like the type of people that would want a being that powerful outside of their control just wandering around. And now that Hornet set in motion a veritable void apocalypse on her own time, I think there’s a pretty clear thread TC is weaving here, and the masters are gonna want to do something about the Pale King’s children. Team Cherry said their DLC ideas were pretty ambitious, a joint mission with Hornet and the Knight would certainly fit that description, and fulfill TC’s old scrapped HK plans for being able to swap between two playable characters. They’ve put so much scrapped HK content and ideas in SK, so who knows.

[compact pelican]

Precisely the opposite, I'm mourning a community that existed and was killed upon the game's release 💔