sk-lore

[silk dirge]

itd be so fucking cool

[muted lantern]

Honestly I think it would be interesting if she had to stop the citadel from blowing itself up at some point to prevent cave ins, by disabling the core or something, or at least mitigate the blast. If the whole city overheated and blew up it could cause the entire kingdom to cave in.

Or if its an overheat maybe the structure would just melt instead of exploding?

[sterile jacinth]

I honestly thought they’d reclaim it like songclaive

[silk dirge]

i mean youd have to do a lot to fix up the citadel

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe bury white ward and just have some parts that serve as a town

[silk dirge]

theres probably dead bodies everywhere

[muted lantern]

Honestly this is a line of thought I should explore in my fanfic

[sterile jacinth]

Not all of the citadel but some of it

[silk dirge]

just like do the nuclear disaster option and fill it with concrete

[sterile jacinth]

I think they’d seal it off

It does have fresh water (high halls)

[silk dirge]

id concrete whiteward in

[muted lantern]

But what do yall think? would the gas explosion of the citadel be enough to level the entire cavern?

[silk dirge]

i mean its gonna be a chain reaction

[muted lantern]

like a nuke sized blast could certainly cause some issues

for a big cave system

[silk dirge]

the citadel is going to collapse onto underworks which then is going to collapse down on greymoor

thats probably gonna take the marrow, deep docks, far fields down

[sterile jacinth]

The citadel is HUGE. Destroying it would definitely cause a lot of issues

[muted lantern]

Well you also have to consider the reverberations from the blast spreading out further than the vertical shaft

I think hornet would need to do something to prevent a blast in the first place

or the whole kingdom will end up worse than the void catastrophe

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah I think Hornet is there to rebuild not to destroy

[silk dirge]

honestly just like repopulate nameless village with every living person and blow the rest up

probably the safest option lol

[sterile jacinth]

Plus I think there’s some use to the citadel. Especially considering those who survived in Pharloom can’t exactly be picky

[muted lantern]

If the whole cave system collapsed so would the surface

[sterile jacinth]

It’s more dead and dry than Karak

[muted lantern]

Honestly tho i think the direction I'll go for my own writing is preventing any kind of explosion, I feel like that would be the best for the kingdom

[sterile jacinth]

Also songclaive is there. And same with what is presumably laces home

[muted lantern]

Laces gardens already pretty much trashed

[silk dirge]

lace doesnt really have a home tbh

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah she doesn’t

[muted lantern]

clearly the most ethical thing is to have lace work in her dead siblings job of venting the steam /s

[sterile jacinth]

Did allthat just to pollute bilewater again 😔

[silk dirge]

also it would be kinda silly bringing lace into songclave its like

who tf are you

i dont think anyone in silksong except hornet actually meets lace

[sterile jacinth]

Hornet: go apologize
Lace: buttidontwaaannaaa

[silk dirge]

caretaker does know about her

but no one else has seen her

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-onepunchman-saitama-otaku-manga-gif-5018431

[stray fog]

Caretaker is kill

[sterile jacinth]

A pilgrim mentions hearing her laughing

[stray fog]

Maybe

[muted lantern]

caretaker might have met her, and other pilgrims have heard her laughing

so they might recognize her as the nutjob kid thats been running around and laughing at the downfall of everything

[sterile jacinth]

I’m sure there’s rumors

In sure sherma would accept her either way

[stray fog]

They'd shrug it off as blasphemy

[silk dirge]

i think the funny thing is no one actually knows whats going on

i doubt pilgrims have any like concept of higher beings

[muted lantern]

Lace would hate shermas ass

[sterile jacinth]

Sherma would be like wow you’re made of silk that’s so cool

[muted lantern]

she would be a day one sherma opp

[sterile jacinth]

Too cheerful?

[silk dirge]

its funny to me how sherma can see hornet using silk skills in whiteward and not comment at all on her being a weaver

[muted lantern]

too nice, she gets mad at hornet for 'platitudes'

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think he really knows what’s going on

[muted lantern]

when shes genuinely trying to be compassionate

[stray fog]

Does bro even know what a weaver is

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah. I feel like she couldn’t stay mad at him forever tho lol

[sterile jacinth]

Weavers are known by at least some common bugs, but they are not very well liked

[silk dirge]

probably not

[muted lantern]

Honestly lace kinda reminds me of flowey as a character, I don't know how to explain this

[silk dirge]

shakra does tho

[sterile jacinth]

Traumatized lost child who ruins shit that you make up with at the end of the game

[muted lantern]

she speaks of them in a mythological sense, and even she doesnt recognize hornet as a weaver, plus plenty of enemies in pharloom use silk skills

[stray fog]

How did sherma even survive the climb to the citadel

[silk dirge]

its funny bc hornet being a weaver is like her less cool part

[sterile jacinth]

Grindle comments on weavers. I think he calls them liars or sneaky or smth idk

[muted lantern]

also just her manner of pushing people away, and being trapped as a child despite living forever due to the nature of their being.

[sterile jacinth]

Yes this 🔥

[silk dirge]

like i dont think anyone not weaver related knows hornet is more than just half weaver

[muted lantern]

undertale was peak, the 10th aniversary made me so emotional

[silk dirge]

probably caretaker

he knows everything

[sterile jacinth]

Caretaker is a snail shaman. They know a lot more than the average bug

[stray fog]

And the person who wrote the "full chamber to the kingdom of the white wyrm" message

[silk dirge]

thats probably like gms tbh

[muted lantern]

Caretaker seems supremely knowledgable on most things, it seems like the shamans are long lived

ALSO, second sentinel has a shaman crest attack, so it seems the snail shamans had some involvment like the pinstresses in that, so that explains why one lives in the citadel

albiet in secret, considering the pinstresses got hunted down

[sterile jacinth]

I hadn’t really thought about why caretaker is there

He does wear citadel robes right?

[muted lantern]

Yeah, it seems like hes been in hiding there for a long time

hence his extensive knowledge on the citadel

I imagine his strategy was to keep your enemies close and hide where theyd least expect

[sterile jacinth]

He seems upset that other bugs will be coming to first shrine lol

[muted lantern]

Imagine some random woman breaks into the church you've been peacefully squatting in for years, rings the loudest bell on the goddamn planet, then every homeless person in the entire city comes to share it with you.

[sterile jacinth]

Omg yea

Probably calls her a bitch behind her back and to her face

[muted lantern]

He doesnt seem fond of her yeah

he gains the slightest respect for her after silk and soul, but still is a prick

[sterile jacinth]

Now it’s just behind her back

[stray fog]

Are karmelita / the green prince the oldest living bugs in the world?

They predate gms, the weavers, hornet, probably vessels

Idk about the radiance, pale king, white lady though

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think gp or Karm predate gms

Karm united the Skarr against the haunting

[muted lantern]

thats another reason its weird people argue shaman is just being mean about laces age, when he is pissed at hornet too and still refers to her as old one despite her appearance

[stray fog]

Aren't they from a time before gms

[muted lantern]

we don't really know

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t think they are

[stray fog]

That implies that she was alive during the haunting, but it doesn't mean she couldn't have been alive before it

[sterile jacinth]

Kahnn likely yes. Nyleth maybe

The haunting happens after the weaver betrayal

[muted lantern]

alright do we think nyleth has a connection with isma?

[heavy gyro]

The karmelita memory is explicitly before gms

[stray fog]

Is khann alive though

[sterile jacinth]

Karm and gp I seriously doubt it

[sterile jacinth]

Where does it say that

[muted lantern]

its possible, we see with watcher that they can lay dormant for ages

[sterile jacinth]

We don’t really know. He could be in some like very close to death stasis

[stray fog]

Were the weavers already in deepnest when the pale king was trying to rule hallownest

[heavy gyro]

"Great one, I come not to see you as you are, rather I would have you recall what you were, before the pale monarch, when once your heart beat bright and brave"

[stray fog]

Because there was a war between deepnest and pk

[sterile jacinth]

Oh huh…

That… puts a wrench in things

[stray fog]

If so, then the old hearts predate the pale king too

[sterile jacinth]

It could just be referring to a time before the haunting

Which on the grand scale of things is relatively sooner

[stray fog]

Yeah

[sterile jacinth]

I think the answer is more likely because I doubt that they are older than the Weavers and hornet. Hornet is stated to be like very unnaturally old.

Karm is a powerful bug but she isn’t connected to any sort of god

[muted lantern]

So what kinda bug do we think shakra is?

the tail is what throws me

its a very dragonfly looking tail

but a lot of people think shes a wasp?

[sterile jacinth]

Wasp

[muted lantern]

but she lacks a stinger

[sterile jacinth]

[stray fog]

Why did the conductors continue the fake religion?

[sterile jacinth]

Maybe shes a hornet

[stray fog]

Or did they not know that it was fake

[sterile jacinth]

Oh they probably knew the purpose and still do. If gms were to wake up it would not be good for them. Also they got greedy

[muted lantern]

like vespa has a distinct stinger even at her size iirc

[sterile jacinth]

Yeah idk :P

Most of the bugs are ambiguous bug type creatures lol

[stray fog]

"Crawbugs"

They could have just said crows

[muted lantern]

Hmm, actually it doesnt look like vespa has a drawn stinger, her thorax just tapers, but its yellow at the end

so maybe shakra is a wasp, since we see like vespa or hive knight a bee doesnt need to have wings

[sterile jacinth]

I think this explains it pretty well https://youtu.be/PB-EMZbTOj0?si=DgJJyBJcPhc45Tnl

Yeah we don’t really know what Shakra is lol

[muted lantern]

also look at this cool comparison i found online

isopod doggy?

[sterile jacinth]

I think so lol

[muted lantern]

I love bell beast

Im sorry old stag but bell beast is best girl

[sterile jacinth]

She’s so cute

They both fit their respective games themes well I think

[silk dirge]

bell beast is cool

i think she could have a quest around bell eater tho

it would ruin the surprise moment but i think overall it would be better for gameplay and lore

[muted lantern]

the article i stole that image from also has an abysmal comparison, calling karmelita a wasp, so presumably its a pre release article lol

[dawn sluice]

yeah
silksong humanizes bugs a bit more than hollow knight does

[sterile jacinth]

Imagine once you discovered all the bell stations and then she brought you to the bell beast nest where they were all dead

[dawn sluice]

hollow knight gives them thoughts and sometimes that’s the most they’ll get

[silk dirge]

bc ive heard quite a few people say beastling call would be nice to have in late act 2 before you get into act 3

[dawn sluice]

silksong gives a little more

[silk dirge]

and i have to agree

[sterile jacinth]

Skarrsinger Karmelita? That is hilarious

[silk dirge]

you do a lot of travelling in late act 2

[dawn sluice]

especially considering just how much traveling you have to do for every flea, all the quests, and a lot more

[silk dirge]

i would say probably same requirement as stag where you need to unlock every station

[muted lantern]

yeah, the bell eater fight works really well where it is, but we should get the call maybe after we discover all the stations

[sterile jacinth]

That’s fair. It is a good reward for beating bell water tho

[muted lantern]

or maybe the bell eater fight can take place at the last station

[silk dirge]

and then when you do it eira could make like distressed sounds to you to alert you about bell eater

[sterile jacinth]

Stag nest style where there’s a bunch of bell beast husks

[silk dirge]

maybe have it be like all your travelling awakened bell eater

and bell eater was an old predator of bell beasts or smth

is bell eater haunted im curious

[sterile jacinth]

That could work too

I don’t think so

[dawn sluice]

does the needolin work on them

if yes you can maybe find out

[sterile jacinth]

It does work but that doesn’t necessarily make it haunted

[muted lantern]

I still wanna know if bell beast is haunted in its fight

[muted lantern]

if you needolin and they are haunted you get little threads above their head

[sterile jacinth]

I couldn’t find anything confirming or denying and I am not about to play for like 5 hours to find out

I don’t think it’s haunted tho

[muted lantern]

bell eater is not haunted just checked

no threads above it, makes sense as it seems to have been dormant untill the collapsing rubble woke it up in act 3

also bell eater is fucking massive

[dawn sluice]

i’m saying that the needolin being able to be used is something we can USE in order to find out whether it’s haunted by the strings
you misread again

[dawn sluice]

you would be too if you ate bells

[muted lantern]

fun fact bell eater uses the royal we to refer to itself

unless theres more of it

but it kinda seems to be the last

[abstract rivet]

howd the coral gorge dry up

[muted lantern]

probably not the case but i like to imagine the citadel drank it up like a rain world iterator

[abstract rivet]

thirsty bastards

[sterile jacinth]

You asked if it worked on them. Needolin sometimes doesn’t do anything to certain enemies. :/

[dawn sluice]

yes
i asked if it worked on them
to determine whether we can use it or not to determine if they are haunted or not

that’s the point

[sterile jacinth]

I interpreted in you asking if it had needolin dialogue because some bugs don’t

[dawn sluice]

welp
glad we got that misreading cleared

[sterile jacinth]

Bell eater does seem like a likely candidate for a bug that wouldn’t have needolin dialogue

Since it’s been dormant for so long

[dawn sluice]

please, if you could, don’t do so again

[sterile jacinth]

To err is human

[dawn sluice]

yeah
imagine waking up and a spider starts playing music

[silk dirge]

anyways yeah bell beast/bellways definitely could use more lore

i like bell beast as she is but i think it would be cool if tc figures out a way to add lore like old stag

[sterile jacinth]

Imagine if we got all the stations and she took us to a place with just a bunch of bell beast corpses

Like the last stag

[dawn sluice]

noo… not last stag
old stag
pls

[sterile jacinth]

Me getting something off is not the end of the world

[silk dirge]

maybe you could have her take you to like a terminus type location with a bunch of bellway lore and when you try to go back bell eater spawns

ofc there would be another exit if you dont want to fight bell eater

[sterile jacinth]

That would be cool

[dawn sluice]

well you misread again 10 minutes with grandma silk

[sterile jacinth]

Dude you got what I meant it’s not a big deal

[dawn sluice]

why are you saying it’s not a big deal
i thought that was a given

[sterile jacinth]

You keep commenting on it

[dawn sluice]

it was a joke my good ma’am

[sterile jacinth]

Tone over text is hard

😔

Sorry gang

[dawn sluice]

it’s alright
another 20 minutes with grandma silk (this is a joke)

[sterile jacinth]

Rats 😔

[opaque parcel]

is there a reason that the deep docks people wear helmets? or is it just style

[dawn sluice]

it’s like welding masks

because without it
your face probably won’t look good by the time your slavery ends

[opaque parcel]

yeah but they dont wear armor on the rest of their bodies, the parts that are holding the stakes that touch hot metal

[sterile jacinth]

It’s so we can’t pogo off of them </3 /j

[silk dirge]

i mean head is probably most important part of your body

dont ask me how the rest of the body of flintflame flyers survives

[opaque parcel]

hm
i presumed that they had the bells installed after the haunting started to force them to keep working in the apocalypse

[silk dirge]

nah they probably always had them

[sterile jacinth]

Balum has one

I forgot his name. The guy with forge daughter

[silk dirge]

ballow

my goat

[sterile jacinth]

I think they look like bells out of symbolism

[silk dirge]

i mean yeah but they also have a real purpose

[sterile jacinth]

Forge daughter also has one

Yeah, I’m just giving an explanation for why they look like bells

[silk dirge]

you know i am curious does the stuff from deep docks end up in the cauldron

[muted lantern]

I think they use bells to improve morale, if your coworker falls to his death its very sad, but if he falls into a pit and you hear BONG BONG BONG as he goes its a little funnier

[silk dirge]

i would assume so

[sterile jacinth]

That’s morbid lmao

[silk dirge]

my first thought when i saw the lava platforms was "holy shit thats the place all the stuff from that one deep docks lore tablet goes to"

[radiant badger]

Yo chat the snail shamans didn't know the conjoined hearts origin right??

[sterile jacinth]

I don’t see why they wouldn’t

They probably know about Verdania. Like they might have been a little surprised but were like eh it’ll do

[muted lantern]

I think they might be referring to a line they have if you bring them the heart before doing red memory

i don't remember what that line is tho

[sterile jacinth]

Ooh I didn’t know they had unique dialogue

[dawn sluice]

i wonder how early the haunting could’ve started if any of the factions who had beef with pharloom had actually attacked at an early point

[radiant badger]

Found the line

[sterile jacinth]

Sounds to me like they just thought every verdanian was dead

And we’re surprised that you even managed to get one

[radiant badger]

Alr

[muted lantern]

hey so are you able to escape moorwings fight without being killed? because i died to this boss the first time she saw it and hornets talking like shes met it already

[regal crow]

Did green prince wipe out the stags? In verdancia he says “here the trail of the stag grows pale. We hunted her, felled her”

That’s fucked up if so. What’s a stag doing in pharloom tho

[regal crow]

Yeah

[robust wagon]

Bro the palestag boss 😭

Not Hallownest stags

[regal crow]

There’s no border to the boss arena, you can leave whenever you want

[regal crow]

Ah

[craggy smelt]

just sounds like they were hunting an especially prized specimen, not exterminating the species as a whole

[foggy swan]

Does the needle weigh more than Hornet? If not then how tf does clawline work?

[humble peak]

bug magic

[supple echo]

Is the Pale Lady from HK and Greyroot the same species?

[craggy smelt]

who knows

[abstract rivet]

Greyroot is a cat while Pale King is a hamster so no i dont think

[robust wagon]

Well but white lady is a horse so like who knows

[opaque pier]

It weighs less but when she wants to use clawline she makes it way heavier with silk

[craggy smelt]

grappling hook!

the magic part is she can grapple the air

[vast obsidian]

she's not actually pulling herself to the needle
she has jet farts and lets out a little silky parp when casting that skill

[arctic cliff]

Mister mushroom dialogue:
“Only the journey... the now. For myself, that is the purpose, and as far as my sight can see.
If any other could come to understand that state, Wyrm child, I suspect it may be you...
Though maybe not yet, not this present, hmmmm? Maybe in a future far, when your actions might hail me so again?
Alas, from these quaking caves it is past time I made my swift exit. Ours each may be long and winding roads, but I hope you too come to know the many joys upon the path...”

[sullen canopy]

Hi, I just watched Dune 2 yesterday, and started wondering if "the water of life" could've been an inspiration for lifeblood in hollow knight?
cause in the wormways location, you have the worms right? Like in Dune movie/book
And also the same area gets infected by blue substance, which in Dune is also connected to the worms ||aka their blood||

[lean temple]

Iirc TC did read Dune, so who knows

[snow sonnet]

Is Nyleth technically the only real dead heart by the time of act 3?

Karm's still kicking
Khann could very well just be in stasis since he crumbles the way Watcher of the edge did
Green Prince alive aswell

[twin dragon]

Not to mention we don't even see her

[craggy smelt]

she might still be alive as well
Sister Splinter's needolin dialogue mentions an 'other, sleeping deep'

since Nyleth created the growth of Shellwood, then she might be a presence within it, rather than having any kind of physical form

[wintry flame]

whatever's up with the city of steel it's not good

[frosty gate]

Yeah this dudes are definitely torturin a shit ton of people

[wintry flame]

"Weaver, in quarter part, […] taken beneath the City of Steel."

beneath the city of steel

imo this is some third game stuff

[snow sonnet]

Hollow Knight: Steel Soul

[halcyon merlin]

where we play as thk

and it fucking sucks because of his size and only having 1 arm

[wintry flame]

compression dialogue is scary as hell

what if steel is the ultimate godkiller

especially you higher

[frosty gate]

Yes, CoS seems like it has a whole plot going on

[wintry flame]

steel people seem to have, at least in part, bound void to them

see sharpe's animations

and see jinn's dialogue about the masters

[frosty gate]

Let's not speak of Sharpe, but I agree

[wintry flame]

we have seen void given focus we have seen void given form

what about void given mind

like void really likes to eat and consume powerful stuff from what it looks like

[stray fog]

Void given heart?
Steel *heart*

[wintry flame]

what if "compression" is the ultimate way of void to possess something

i'm spitballing here

[stray fog]

I hope we get a steel game instead of a steel dlc

It will have more lore than a dlc

[wintry flame]

i think the third game's gotta have steel in it

gargantuan overarching plot about some shady people doing shady things who seem to follow the rule of an extremely powerful caste of masters who live in their own kingdom and are capeable of compressing (whatever that means) pale beings

they seem to be able to manipulate void or are at least attuned to it

[stray fog]

Hornet already knew of the masters and steel, so they must be universal forces

Someone in this channel had said that steel could be a mediator between light and void

White + black = grey

[wet shadow]

I think compression means that the steel city can kill pale beings, and squeeze the power out of them for their own purposes. If this is true, then it is an explanation for the extinction of wyrms

[honest sun]

what species are pk and white lady

[halcyon merlin]

pk - wyrm
white lady - something about roots

[stray fog]

Are wyrms confirmed to be extinct

[halcyon merlin]

i think so

This falling ash is moult. The Wyrm's corpse decaying. Endless. Rmm... Serene. Sad.
With its like gone, the world is smaller.

[stray fog]

Also, the pale king is called "the white wyrm", so maybe not all wyrms are pale

There also might be a black wyrm

Amd a black wyrm cannot be pale

[halcyon merlin]

i think the black wyrm thing is a completely different thing to pk species but idk

[quartz salmon]

This doesn't necessarily mean they were killed or anything

I take it to mean that at some point in time there were a lot of wyrms but they either died in battle with eachother, of old age, or changed forms like the pale king

[halcyon merlin]

"with its like gone" this part makes me think that all wyrms are gone now

i guess you're right too

[craggy smelt]

funny story, but the Void Given Focus was originally called Void Given Mind, in the Godseeker statue room
TC changed it in an update

[wintry flame]

i'm onto something here

[lean temple]

I think compression is how the likes of Jinn and Zi are made. A being is compressed into the steel armor and their previous selves are pretty much erased.
It can work on higher beings, but it doesn't mean that the Masters use it exclusively on them.

[twin dragon]

funny since we see in the original game even that the void already has one

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I think that's probably why they changed it

they didn't want people to get the wrong idea about the Void

or TK

[twin dragon]

I mean it's still ambiguous as shit

[craggy smelt]

i think 'focus' is probably the better term for it

like the Void's consciousness is this great big chaotic soup

and TK brings it all together under their will

[twin dragon]

Seems to be wrong due to the sister of the void ending

And dream no more might also contradict that

[craggy smelt]

yeah, SotV kinda fucked up that whole thing

nobody knows wtf is going on there

[twin dragon]

I mean we see THK's shade acting on its own in dream no more

[craggy smelt]

certain Void is already under the influence of other beings - ex. Collector absorbed the mind of the Love Key Bug
THK is the same way, an independant Void entity

(also the various Moulds)

[stark halo]

sotv mostly just implies that the reach of the knight uniting the void is limited i would say

[twin dragon]

The void itself seems to be quite many things

each on their own

But the knight manages to make all of those things listen to his command

[craggy smelt]

it seems to command Void that doesn't have Essence in it - void tendrils, siblings, etc.

[twin dragon]

Thk can be considered a sibling

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I have a theory that the whole 'tarnished by an idea instilled' thing refers to Essence

certainly vessels can have Essence, it seems like Shades/Siblings don't

[twin dragon]

The knight is able to instill that idea of "control" into the void with the voidheart

idk

[stray fog]

Is the void united in dream no more?

Don't we see many siblings in the abyss in that ending's cutscene

[lone folio]

i have now seen all of the steel soul stuff and i guess jiji is a vassal as she talks about the masters and looks to be the same species of bug as sula

[stray fog]

Yeah

[lone folio]

now i question why do they use void 🤔

well they dont use void they just summon it

[onyx olive]

average flea brew + silkspeed anklets experience

[inland adder]

Wherever hornet slaps another character if you look closely you'll notice the slap starts from her right side but then rests on her left, meaning she is using her left arm, confirming that this is in fact a full on backhand pimp slap.

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-hollow-knight-silksong-hornet-slap-gif-9441096838231046846

[lone folio]

this is maybe important to that?

not sure what kind of different Jinn is reffering to, it could be that she is talking about them just being powerful or that they are more "complete"? maybe different as in void but i dont think thats the case

[edgy nebula]

yeah but jiji is also presumably uncanon

[lone folio]

uncanon??

how so?

[edgy nebula]

the masters dont like void usage and the steel soul mode is presumably more canon anyway

[lone folio]

where is it said that they dont like it?

oh

nevermind i found the one singular line i didnt notice before

but the fact that they dont like void usage doesnt mean that jiji is just not a character

and uncanon to the lore

and if steel soul mode is "more canon" then everything about void and regrets isnt canon which doesnt seem likely

[silk dirge]

ok wait someone pointed out something about verdania that i never thought of before

the great conchflies entry is very relevant here

hornet expects green prince to move on like she has from her many dead lovers

not understanding its different for mortal bugs

even though green prince lived for an absurd amount of time

[limpid summit]

Void is more of a metaphor for regrets representing PK and WL’s great sacrifice and essentially the skeleton in Hallownest’s closet

Jiji talking about regrets is just a way to represent that metaphor for gameplay purposes

But you’re right she is canon

Ellina who writes the irl wanderers journal meets both

[lone folio]

i feel like jiji still knows how to use void

[limpid summit]

She may

[lone folio]

but how do the vassals know void summoning spells🤔

"my masters would be imprised"

this could be some non canon dialogue as of silksong

[limpid summit]

I mean there’s no reason to assume anything she says is noncanon

Just the service she provides

[lone folio]

or its specifically about regrets so maybe summoning void just comes along with knowing regret magic

[limpid summit]

So we can still jntepret that dialogue however we want

[stray wren]

Git gud

[stray fog]

What if the steel assassins are people who have "come to terms" with their void

[lone folio]

Oh yeah the sharp guy has a void nose

maybe the vassals/confessors hear other peoples regrets to start understanding how to control them, then once they get good enough they get to become a seer which then with the help of its vassals learns even more about regrets and then they become a master

though it isnt stated anywhere that you can advance in the steel hirearchy so this is purely speculation

[stray fog]

Is jiji independent (not a vassal)?

[lone folio]

oh she defently is

[lone folio]

first of all look at these two

same bug

[stray fog]

The masters are a superior version of jinn

[lone folio]

then in the reddit AMA Ari says that jiji and jinn have a "mysterious connection" and they both have masters

[stray fog]

Maybe confessor is a rank above vassal

[lone folio]

oo maybe

[stray fog]

It seems like jiji offered her services to people before

[lone folio]

vassal <- confessors <- seers <- masters is the current hirearchy if thats true

[silk dirge]

where does sharpe fit in there

[lone folio]

oh yeah

[silk dirge]

imo sharpe seems like a sort of military commander

[lone folio]

vassal <- confessor <- seer <- assasin? <- master

maybe like this?

[silk dirge]

that would be my take also

[lone folio]

i dont think hes lower then the seer but probably not higher then master

[stray fog]

The word "seer" has a meaning that kindof matches this

[stray fog]

It doesn't need to be completely vertical

Assassins could exist separately from the hierarchy

[upper copper]

Which popular theories from the previous game came out true? (Other than the 3 moms theory)

[lone folio]

maybe

[stray fog]

I think the abyss being the bedrock of the entire world was an idea that existed before silksong too

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[twin dragon]

Maybe these guys would be given more freedom

We don't know much about hierarchy but the other steel bugs shown seem to be his "companions"

We don't know much about the steel city itself

[lone folio]

i wonder if sharpe will come back in a dlc and hunt down hornet in act 3 because she did that void stuff

if the 3 assassins goal was changed from whatever they were hunting hornet down for before

[stray fog]

I've said this before but I hope its a random event

Like you're just exploring and then sharpe shows up

[lone folio]

would be cooler

but they do need a motivation to hunt her down

[twin dragon]

Eh it'd have to be related to the city in some way

[lone folio]

yeah

[twin dragon]

Since rn they don't have much reason to

Unless its steel soul exclusive after you complete the quest

Since you didnt bring the vassal back

[stray fog]

Didn't sula betray the masters?

But I don't think Hornet would give enough fucks to protect sula

[lone folio]

imagine if we get to go to the city of steel

unlikely but it would be hype as hell

[lapis moth]

had a reason for the snare made by the snails that hornet didnt know?
or they really wanted save pharloom?

[twin dragon]

Yeah, and hornet refused the order given by steel seer

[twin dragon]

actually very likely

As DLC

[lapis moth]

well... sometime we need fight with sharpe...

[stray fog]

If they're doing an entire kingdom, I hope its a complete separate game

[twin dragon]

nah no need to

They could make it a big dlc that's it

wth would you do in hollow knight = steel ball run anyways

[stray fog]

Even a big dlc won't be as fleshed out as a separate game because they can't make the city so big that it takes away from pharloom

[twin dragon]

It doesn't need to be

[craggy smelt]

sharpe and the assassins coming to us would be cool, us going to the city would be even cooler

Act IV: Steel

(god damn it)

[lone folio]

what the fuck is upp with this

[stray fog]

Bruh I've seen this shit before

[craggy smelt]

thank you, mods

[lone folio]

this is like the fourth time i have seen this happen

if we do ever get to visit the city of steel how would it happen 🤔

[craggy smelt]

steel teleportation pylons

[lone folio]

we get to elegy of the deep the weaver that was staked to service there

[stray fog]

If the masters are as powerful as we think, and hornet knows about then, I don't think Hornet would voluntarily go and mess with them

[craggy smelt]

Check out Jinn and Zi's chambers... got similar elements, those metallic ovals, the spires, metallic floor...
I think those are totally steel teleportation pylons...

[lone folio]

oh please she jumps headfirst into the void and goes to fight GMS

some steel people wouldnt be that bad

[stray fog]

Because she felt guilty

[lone folio]

well in that case she gets a motivation to go there

[stray fog]

Yeah we don't know how powerful they are

[lone folio]

steel tribe send their assasins kill some people and then try to kill hornet and then hornet kills them and wants to find the ones at fault for sending them

crazy simple

and for some reason shes gonna be the reason for the assassins getting sent to make her even more willing to go there

[stray fog]

She did just mess around with void a lot

[craggy smelt]

it'd be funny if no sooner does she settle everything in Pharloom then another group of bugs comes hunting her

so she has to go to their kingdom and sort shit out

[lone folio]

hell yeah

act 4 could be the way to doing that

[craggy smelt]

hrm...

I wonder if the Steel Assassins could be introduced as random encounters throughout Pharloom in one DLC
and then the full-on City in a later one

[stark halo]

i don't think i want the city in a dlc personally because i think i'd prefer it as a full game; it might be hard to do city dlc and also a full game unless it serves as a prelude or something

[twin dragon]

There's no reason for it to be a full game tbf

[craggy smelt]

i do not want to wait another 7+ years for my steel masters lore

already choked I didn't get it in base Skong

[stark halo]

narratively it's one of very few places that could serve as the setting for a third game that also resolves underlying threads in the first and second games

the other one is the lands serene

[craggy smelt]

that can be the third game

[twin dragon]

I don't think we need a third game

We js need tweaks for silksong

[stray fog]

Probably even more because its development will start later (after the silksong DLC(s) I assume)

[craggy smelt]

graaa~

[lethal burrow]

Hollow Knight: Steel Sentinel

[lethal burrow]

why shouldn't we speak of sharp? It's not like we're team Cherry.

[vestal swan]

Because he's not in the game so it doesn't really matter

[abstract rivet]

pharloom ain’t really dead yet so does this mean The Grimm Troupe wouldnt come right

[vestal swan]

You could consider it dead at the end of the game, most of the population is probably dead

But still an envoy would have to show up and summon them

[snow sonnet]

Wisp Thicket feels like some grimm troupe bullshit (knockoffs)

[silk dirge]

hornet when the steel city equivalent of a wardenfly spawns in

also my god the slab fly discussion last night was the most wild ive seen 😭

pulling out the fucking un definition of genocide for a video game is wild

[foggy fractal]

seal did you see modders managed to put the knight in silksong

[silk dirge]

yeah

[lapis moth]

had a reason for the snare made by the snails that hornet didnt know?
or they really wanted save pharloom?

[silk dirge]

seeing tk in silksong only further confirmed how fucking broken ddark is

[foggy fractal]

and how broken unbreakable strength is

[silk dirge]

me when i break the unbreakable

[snow sonnet]

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWER 🗣️

[foggy fractal]

so max nail is like 21 right ? isn't it like 32 with strength

[silk dirge]

yeah

theres a reason flintslate is so limited

[foggy fractal]

imagine a perma beast bind and flintslate

basically what fury and strength is

[dawn sluice]

then another big city sees someone sorting out everyone’s issues and kidnaps hornet to sort out their issues

[humble peak]

real

[silk dirge]

also another notable thing of the knight mod

smaller than sherma is crazy

shakra is like 4x its height

[foggy fractal]

apparently sherma is almost as tall as elder bug

[silk dirge]

wait what

thats crazy

i think the knight has just inherently more aura than hornet bc like its so small but its also the fucking

lord of shades

like do not mess with the tiny baby wielding nail

[vestal swan]

Is this an accurate height comparison based on hornet?

Baby wielding darkness

[silk dirge]

i mean we can compare

elderbugs horns do stick out a bit

but they do seem to be around the same height

[vestal swan]

Sprites by themselves aren't accurate depictions of height, because when in the game they could be background or foreground etc, it has to be like stuff you fight

I remembered somebody pulling up the sprites before and like just the sprites for the first game some characters are like three times bigger than they should be

[silk dirge]

i see

[vestal swan]

Sherma potentially being taller is fucking hilarious though

[dawn sluice]

it came from the pale king
it’s not surprising the difference in size of its two forms is very, VERY huge

[silk dirge]

my favorite silksong character shawarma

[dawn sluice]

you get this by beating up sherma and giving him to the cook who gives you a pale oil

[sinful nimbus]

You're a short one, but you've a strong look about you 🗣️

[foggy swan]

why does getting hit in witch crest bind deplete all silk?

[vestal swan]

That's the most crests depending on how many upgrades you have

If you have like full upgrades and it's still taking away all of it report it as a bug, I don't think it should be emptying all of your reserve

[silk dirge]

i think thats how its always been

[blissful harbor]

that’s how most every bind works?
you get hit, healing is lost and all silk is lost used for bind
unless you mean like the silk used to bind and all extra

[stark halo]

iirc getting hit during any bind depletes all silk unless you have warding bell equipped - wait is this a lore question

idk if there's a lore explanation for this

[vestal swan]

Lore explanation, the healing mechanic is really unbalanced

[foggy swan]

I mean ALL silk

[blissful harbor]

a bug then likely

[foggy swan]

oh

[blissful harbor]

like, if you mean you have a full spool, and three extra notches
it should only take the spool to bind, and leave with three silk left
if it takes the full thing it’s a bug, unless witch crest interacts with silk differently which idk why

[stark halo]

it always takes all silk unless you have warding bell equipped in which case you only lose the bind amount

I thought this too at first but it's not the case

[blissful harbor]

wtf

[foggy swan]

because having to be next to enemies to heal wasnt enough ig

[blissful harbor]

i swear i’ve gotten hit while binding and had silk left over
am i crazy

[late goblet]

Without spoiling Silksong for me, is it an entirely new and separated game? Or does it interact a lot with the previous game and it's lore?

[blissful harbor]

latter

[foggy fractal]

ok I was just looking into this and for some reason only known to team cherry elderbug's sprites are smaller than how he appears in game

[foggy swan]

on witch crest tho?

[vestal swan]

You're not crazy

[vestal swan]

You have to find somebody that uses it first

[foggy swan]

wdym by entirely new and separated?

[vestal swan]

Yeah, it's like they zoomed in when they placed some of the characters and zoomed out for the others

[late goblet]

Like it's kind of it's own game with a completely different story

[vestal swan]

Partially connected but in a big way don't stick around or you'll get spoilers

[foggy fractal]

my only guess is that he was supposed to look smaller like this, and they used another method instead of changing the actual spritesheet

[foggy swan]

then yes it is

[blissful harbor]

it’s connected to the first game, pretty heavily

[humble peak]

I am shocked so many people here were unaware getting hit during a bind empties all your silk

[late goblet]

Alright thx yall

[humble peak]

the game even has a massive special sound effect to let you know you lost more than your health

[stray fog]

During spells too

[foggy fractal]

afaik the spritesheets always correlate to how they look like in game though, for the ones that are in the same plain as the player character that is, do you have other examples of things being bigger or smaller in the spritesheet like elderbug here

[humble peak]

no, only during Rune Rage

[stray fog]

Oh

[vestal swan]

We'll see the thing is it's not 100%? Either it's bugging and keeping silk or it's bugging and sometimes getting rid of all of it, because it's inconsistent

[stray fog]

So rune rage is a bind 🤔

[humble peak]

yeah Rune Rage is weird

[stray fog]

And its like pv's focus

[vestal swan]

I never used a wardingbell it was a waste

[stray fog]

Are binding and focus the same

They're very similar gameplay wise

[vestal swan]

Close but not really

[blissful harbor]

kinda but also no

[humble peak]

well in gameplay they have analogous functions
and in what we see in lore they are definitely similar

[stray fog]

Collect soul and heal
Absorb (dreamers and crests)

[blissful harbor]

hornet is essentially bandaging herself with soul
focus is like literally healing with soul
magic bandaid vs literal healing spell

[humble peak]

but binding also encompasses absorbing external elements, like how hornet binds new abilities from the weavers and such

[stray fog]

Rune rage my goat

[blissful harbor]

focus does too, in this context i assume we mean the healing

[humble peak]

which is similar to how focusing lets you absorb the dreamers and Radiance from THK

[humble peak]

yeah that's my point lol

rune rage makes for another very interesting parallel in that it's very similar to a bind in many ways and the attack it creates is very similar to PV's "focus" attack

[vestal swan]

TKs is going to be unique anyway because they're using soul that would normally fuel a living body to heal the body

[stray fog]

Why do we absorb the dreamers anyway

Is absorbing one of the methods of killing things in the dream realm (the radiance, dreamers)

[humble peak]

hey why did we decide to call PV's rune attack "focus" anyway?
Like was there any basis on that or did we just decide that was a cool name for it

[blissful harbor]

it performs a focus animation during it

like TK’s heal

[vestal swan]

Because they hit the floor and "focus" for a second

It's like when one of the charm effects from focus synergy goes off

But it's a spell

[humble peak]

ngl I think it's a remnant from before the lore was entirely settled lol
but ig it's like
uhh
Yeah honestly idk

[vestal swan]

That's basically how you do away with spirits, think of it like the grim ritual but reversed. Instead of breaking the physical tie to remove the body you're removing the spiritual tie to break the body

Because the seal is bound to both

[urban nimbus]

Hey guys I was quietly working on Baudelaire's "Les Fleurs du Mal" for a French assignment (I'm French) when I came across a very interesting poem. Here's the English translation:

SPLEEN

78

"When the low, heavy sky weighs like a lid On the groaning spirit, prey to long ennui, And from the horizon, embracing the whole circle, It pours down upon us a black day, sadder than the nights;

When the earth is changed into a damp dungeon, Where Hope, like a bat, Goes beating the walls with its timid wing And banging its head against rotten ceilings;

When the rain, spreading its immense trails, Imitates the bars of a vast prison, And a mute swarm of infamous spiders Comes to spread its webs in the depths of our brains,

Suddenly, bells leap out with fury And hurl a dreadful howl toward the sky, Like wandering, homeless spirits Who begin to moan obstinately

And long hearses, without drums or music, slowly parade through my soul; Hope, vanquished, weeps, and atrocious, despotic Anguish plants its black flag on my bowed head"
So, does that ring a bell? Could Team Cherry have drawn inspiration from it?

[sinful nimbus]

While its a cool poem I'm not convinced TC drew inspiration from it

It mentions spiders and bells/song but that's pretty generic (for lack of a better term)

[silk dirge]

i wonder if team cherry was originally going to make weavers good and then saw one of those fucking plate sized spiders in their office and was like nah were making them evil now

[humble peak]

I wouldn't describe the weavers as necessarily good or evil

[urban nimbus]

Mmm, yes, you're right... there's also talk of wandering spirits, but I think I'm just too obsessed with this game to the point of seeing a piece of it everywhere

[silk dirge]

weavers are absolutely evil imo

making gms go to sleep was justified yes but they did a lot more than that

[humble peak]

We don't know the full extent of it

[deep latch]

Can someone help me figure out what herrah is (ik weaver but why she look like that)

[viscid ridge]

Ive been wondering what is up with the first room in the citidel where we meet lace. Right by the entrance, there seems to have been a place where a statue once was.

Then i realized it was probably the statue of the Pious Isomar, whos dialogue makes it seem like he is greating the pilgrims who just made it to the citidel.

[humble peak]

yeah

[viscid ridge]

It also talks about all the types of sin that shouldn't be committed like gluttony and excess. This leads me to believe that the conductors probably got rid of it and hid it away, in order not to have to reveal how hypocritical they are, as we see the higher cast in the citidel indulging themselves

[humble peak]

yeah

hypothetically

[simple moss]

ik i ask this with every almost every boss but is ||widow|| a needed boss to defeat to progress

[silk dirge]

yes but this is not the place to ask that

i would recommend asking in #sk-help or #sk-help-2

[carmine oak]

is it known yet whether SK is a prequel or sequel

based on what I’ve seen it’s unclear

[dry bridge]

it is like, 99.9% a sequel unless team cherry is really messing with us

actually forgot true ending literally states the game is a sequel

[simple moss]

my bad i forgot im on the wrong channel

[humble peak]

they could be really messing with us /j

[carmine oak]

does it? I haven’t beat Lost Lace yet but the Red Memory doesn’t confirm it

[dry bridge]

beat lost lace, it's after that

[silk dirge]

true ending confirms it 100%

[carmine oak]

ok

[edgy nebula]

just watched a video where a guy theorizes herrah is actually an elevated drapemite

what a poor soul

[silk dirge]

i mean thats a pretty common theory

[carmine oak]

the white lady and herrah wish for hornet to overcome the issues with the weavers, the void, and the wyrm

also how did Ze’emer get the white flower

[gray saffron]

||if you want true ending, yes||

[viscid ridge]

To be fair, the snail shamans mention that its incredibly hard to come by, but i imagine that its not that hard to grow, or either the queens gardens have a special power for growing all sorts of plants. I imagine either the white lady, or unn did something to the gardens that made it able to grow it so easily

[rain gate]

I think they originate from somewhere else, but the Queen's gardens somehow are able to also grow it

Ze'mer comes from said "somewhere else" too

So she brought it from home

[fresh badger]

White lady says ze'mer brought it from her homeland

[random harbor]

White Lady - Delicate Flower - After giving Delicate Flower

Ah, what precious gift it offers, though alas I shan't accept.
Not of me that flower, nor of this kingdom. Far it travelled to reach this place, brought by one beloved, fair knight of lands serene.
There is rare power hidden in those frail petals.
To hold it so close, one must surely be unaware of its nature...

@mushspore used /npcs misc name: White Lady category: Delicate Flower dialogue: After giving Delicate Flower

[viscid ridge]

I always thought that zemer and the flower came from the same place, but is there any actual mention that says thats the case?

Nevermind i see, so no need to wonder

[rain gate]

Also the last two lines imply that white lady knows that it can repel void and also knows that we don't know

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but to be fair its always been known thats what she meant since the godhome dlc

I wonder where in the world the land that zemer comes from actually is. If we assume that the world has an actual surface, i personally believe that the everblooms and zemer comes from the very top of the world, which would fit with the flowers being able to repel the void, and also is referred to as a first light.

[mossy jay]

White Lady knows what it is and knows what the Knight is.
A flower that can repel Void, held by a being made of Void...

[mossy jay]

You can see the surface, it's pretty messed up. Looks like the area outside Howling Cliffs in Hollow Knight.

[viscid ridge]

I am aware, but i still think that the surface above pharloom, or the Howling cliffs aren't the true surface. I still think the real one is way higher up

[midnight reef]

we really have nothing to say they arent

beyond Leth thinking that Dirtmouth was in a cave

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, but id like to believe the surface is higher up. Its not canon, its just a opinion. I think the world feels way more expansive and desolate if the "sky" isn't actually the sky. I think thats a very cool concept

[midnight reef]

yeah, fair

I wouldnt mind Silksong exploring more of the Surface, tbh

Pull some stuff from the old concept art

[viscid ridge]

Honestly yea, but also no. I think it should be left to the player to decide

[midnight reef]

Act 3 just needs more content, what it has is a bit sparse

[silk dirge]

yeah

[midnight reef]

Not to say that I dont like what it has, just please Team Cherry give me the Red Coral Gorge

[silk dirge]

i think it would actually be pretty cool if coral gorge wasnt dried up but it was an act 3 exclusive area

[midnight reef]

Yeah

[silk dirge]

i like that with far fields

[midnight reef]

I'd perfer the Red Coral Gorge be a whole area before the Battle Tower at the end, more like the White Palace

[silk dirge]

it feels like discovering a secret hideaway

which i mean it literally is

[mighty cedar]

Next dlc perhaps?

[silk dirge]

but that moment you flip that switch in hunters march is so fucking cool

its like OHH THATS HOW WE GET OVER THERE

[midnight reef]

maybe, we'll learn soon enough

The only thing that I think will 100% happen is a Vespa fight

Considering shes got a full spritesheet for one

[silk dirge]

i should start my act 3 improvement document

i got the time

i think integrating void better into the story is going to require a lot of modification tho

[midnight reef]

I think how they did it is fine

[silk dirge]

but i really want to do something with weaver void experiments

[viscid ridge]

Although i would have loved to see the coral forest, we need to let it go.

[silk dirge]

like we see in weavenest absolom

[midnight reef]

Maybe they could've made it more clear that the Snail Shamans had a presence and role in Pharloom

[silk dirge]

i think its kind of a too sudden shift in the story

its a cool moment but its basically completely out of nowhere

[midnight reef]

Which I personally think is fine

[silk dirge]

which i dont hate but it also isnt the best to completely change up the story like that

[mossy jay]

ways to improve act 3
1: let garmond live
2: add shaw voiceline

[midnight reef]

The story goes from Hornet trying to find why she was captured and trying to free pharloom

into dealing with the consequence of her

shit I forgot the word, greed isnt right

[naive kernel]

paoaoaoaaoao

[mossy jay]

actions

[vestal swan]

Ignorance tbh

[mossy jay]

ambition

ignorance

[vestal swan]

The shamans act like she's supposed to know about them fucking with void without her even actually realizing theyre shamans and also with the hollownest shamans not touching it at all

[deep latch]

After consulting with a friend i came to the conclusion
Herrah was risen from a Drapemite not a Pharlid which is why she looks that way

[vestal swan]

The idea makes a little bit of sense but it's unfounded

[midnight reef]

I think its just a case of Team Cherry designing Herrah first, and doing the lore latter

[deep latch]

She knew they were snail shamans before act 3 begins

[vestal swan]

Especially since it's a bad retcon

[deep latch]

And its okay i guess

[deep latch]

She does in her dialogue with caretaker no?

[vestal swan]

No

Shamans are never mentioned before they remove disguises

[midnight reef]

she knows theyre disguised, and I think she only puts it together right before the GMS fight

[deep latch]

Is this not the case?

[vestal swan]

[deep latch]

They dont have to be mentioned
Maybe hornet just knew

[vestal swan]

Now I just hate the writing even more

[deep latch]

Extinguish as in using their soul

[sinful nimbus]

The shaman reveal is so funny

[deep latch]

Lol

[sinful nimbus]

Team Cherry doesn't want to explain anything to the player so the shamans just go "Surely you know about us and what we do?" and that's that

[deep latch]

I knew my girl juu manell was gonna be important

[sinful nimbus]

Proof TC has only 5 ideas

[deep latch]

Technically we know shamans used to deal with void
How else could you upgrade to shade soul and descending dark if not absorbing shaman power

[sinful nimbus]

The shaman comments on this and says it is OUR essence melding with the spell

[vestal swan]

The shaman of the first game explicitly disconnects himself from the void and the abyss

[sinful nimbus]

Furthermore he calls the void spells "unique and expressive" and later calls void a "new power" indicating they don't know what the heck it is

[vestal swan]

Why does this conversation exist five years later

[deep latch]

Because im a dumbass

Need to watch more mossbag

Maybe the shamans werent referring to the void but to the sacrifices and risks they may be ready to take
Not all snail shamans were in Hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

In which case I'm not sure why Hornet would have a hunch that they would use void

[deep latch]

Because shes an old hag and has so much experience maybe?

[vestal swan]

The Sequel Shaman dialogue makes a lot of stupid assumptions

[deep latch]

She should have travelled the land in her ages

[fathom hill]

i wonder abt this, do we know where snail shamans come from? apparently they may travel in families

or do they just appear

[deep latch]

They just appear

[sinful nimbus]

Fanon type dialogue 😭

[deep latch]

Lol
Silksong is mysterious

Im spending like 30 mins trying to figure out what this means

[sinful nimbus]

These are my evil void shamans my other OCs include Void Garmond and Void Lace

[deep latch]

What do you mean little weaver

Im 90% sure they arent weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Little Weavers are uhmmm straight up not canon anymore it seems 🥴

[fathom hill]

weaver but little

[opaque parcel]

how can widow control the bells?

[vestal swan]

Shamans appear to have lineage that goes back to AC levels of old, it could be that they are just of extremely widespread species that are also extremely long lived. Which is funny considering how we see some of them dead from their own ignorance in the first game

[deep latch]

Silk

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-widow-hornet-bonk-arito-gif-13643966964603239778

[vestal swan]

I want to get rid of it for being a meme but it's so fucking accurate

[opaque parcel]

but cant she not use her silk because of the pins and mask off?

[foggy fractal]

what if they're constructs like the weaverlings ? is that even possible

[deep latch]

Its a proof and evidence

[deep latch]

Excuse me what are weaverlings?

[fathom hill]

hornet does say that she has seen something like that before no?

[deep latch]

I have no idea what they are

Like Eva?

[sinful nimbus]

The Weaversong guys

[deep latch]

Oh

[sinful nimbus]

Little Weavers don't really seem like constructs they're infected and stuff and Weaver robots are noted to be transient

[fathom hill]

yeah the infection may imply that

[jaunty moon]

rope attached to ball you swing rope ball move

[fathom hill]

but tbf anything with a mind could be infected

and we already know constructs can have minds

so maybe?

could lace or phantom get infected?

[vestal swan]

No golem boss fight tho

Imma say no

[jaunty moon]

I mean I guess

[fathom hill]

also lace and phantom were made by gms which is like full on higher being

[jaunty moon]

we can needolin them which is like dreamnail so there is definetly a mind to infect

[fathom hill]

could the weavers really do something like that

far from gms even?

[vestal swan]

They tried and failed to make a divine creation

Tiny little puppets though doesn't seem unreasonable

[fathom hill]

oh right eva

[jaunty moon]

are weavers just evil

[fathom hill]

yah they could make minds ig

[jaunty moon]

do they just make gms go to sleep and fuck off

[deep latch]

Technically the broken vessel shows us even empty vessels can be infected/ used as host

I think lace could get infected

[fathom hill]

unless eva is also like something that was ascended by the weavers but we dont have info on that

[jaunty moon]

broken vessel doesnt get infected

[fathom hill]

she does say her outside caparace is as well as her body than whatever is inside

[deep latch]

Especially because she has a mind

[jaunty moon]

its just the blobs controlling the corpse

[fathom hill]

yah but vessels are just void infused bugs

[deep latch]

Yeah but he gets used as a host
The infection can do something similar to lace

[fathom hill]

they did have a normal birth, coming from eggs so not really a comparison imo

[vestal swan]

Crazy but makes sense, maybe they tried to enhance a sylph

[deep latch]

No broken vessel doesnt have his void/ has little of it
Its the lightseeds that control him

[jaunty moon]

Will we just never get to learn what happened to the hollow knight ?

seing it would mean there is a "true" ending which team cherry said wasnt the case

[deep latch]

Yes pretty much
Since every ending can be canon
Also team cherry wouldnt show you what happens after the ending
Like in the hollow knight ending they wont just tell you if you succeed or fail as a vessel

[vestal swan]

You fail

[deep latch]

You cant be so sure

[vestal swan]

1 and 2 are bad endings

[jaunty moon]

I mean if we get to the what happens to hollow knight that would mean the canon ending is the embrace the void

[vestal swan]

TK is not pure and will eventually fail

[jaunty moon]

since in every other ending thk just fucking dies

[deep latch]

Confession
I havent seen embrace the void ending
Because im so close to beating P5 but im lazy and too passionate to not see it on yt

Ill try to get it soon 🙏

[fathom hill]

i assume you dont want it spoiled?

[deep latch]

Ik it has to do with the everbloom and shade lord but nothing else

[jaunty moon]

yeah but

[deep latch]

The cutscene itself would be pleasant to watch for the first time

[amber bridge]

who is behind the silk heart dialogues?

[jaunty moon]

in the end thk gets out of the black egg and just gets ready to fight hornet ( I think) then it cuts

[rain gate]

Only is ever bloom if you delivered the flower to godseemer

[deep latch]

Ik and i did that

[jaunty moon]

what happens after that is what am tryna figure out

[mossy jay]

Lace could 100% get infected by Radiance

[deep latch]

No one knows truly

[fathom hill]

thats what I believe since only requirement seems to be a mind

[deep latch]

She has a mind so i guess yes

[fathom hill]

but then does that mean that little weavers could be silk made creatures?

[deep latch]

Nah
Weavers can weave silk but not shape it

GMS can shape her silk into many forms

[fathom hill]

i mean

do we know this? they did make eva

[deep latch]

Did they?

[fathom hill]

plus silk skills ig thats a shaping of silk

[fathom hill]

yah

[deep latch]

Hmmm interesting

[fathom hill]

they were an attempt against the curse they share that they cant reproduce, plus making a weapon against gms or something

[deep latch]

Isnt eva like a kin of weavers so its more like weird offspring than creation

[vestal swan]

They can make stuff with it, they were tutoring hornet on making stuff in the red memory

She is a creation she says she is not actually kin to them because they created her

[deep latch]

They can reproduce its just really hard and painful

[vestal swan]

They don't say painful I think but it is hard for them to have kids

[deep latch]

I imagine a sacrifice must be painful
Failing to reproduce should also have consequences as its a sacrifice

[foggy fractal]

I am unique, you see. My mothers shared the curse of their tribe, to conceive a child is a painful, near impossible task. - Eva

[deep latch]

[fathom hill]

Of course

[fathom hill]

they do say painful

[foggy juniper]

i wonder what happened with the weavers from hallownest returning to their homeland thing

[vestal swan]

Eaten or in hiding

[fathom hill]

[deep latch]

Probably dead or infected

[foggy juniper]

damn...

[deep latch]

Or absorbed by silk

Thats a big possibility

[lone folio]

What do you mean absorbed?

[fathom hill]

claimed by gms I'd guess

[lone folio]

She is very asleep when the events of the game happen

Well not very asleep but still trapped

[fathom hill]

But she does claim them no? why are the cages empty in the cradle

[lone folio]

I mean she is seen using her silk to do stuff so maybe?

[lone folio]

See I have never thought about that

[dawn sluice]

do you think she could get infected via dreams like other bugs
or do you think shed have to get infected like the watcher knights, broken vessel, or the hollow knight do

[lapis moth]

what is your theory about why herah is so diferent of the weavers?

[vestal swan]

Bc it's a bad retcon

[dry bridge]

big puffy jacket

[lapis moth]

bc?

[dawn sluice]

she eats a lot

[mossy jay]

because

[dawn sluice]

before comedy

[lapis moth]

oh, ok

https://youtube.com/shorts/a2mzzsanpSw?si=2xLhnBbiDgia4IX6

i saw this video, but i dont think that have a lot of sense

[lone folio]

Same

It's like a meh theory especially with how herrah looks in red memory

If not for that it could be believeble

[lapis moth]

and its strang that gms only made one dermite weaver

[mossy jay]

Hornet looking the way she does is the least confusing part given we know what the Pale King looks like and she looks like him

[fathom hill]

what's the difference?

[lapis moth]

were resuscitated by the infection flies and litle creatures of infection

[dawn sluice]

the dreams part is how bretta and sly got half infected and how someone like soul master got infected
broken vessel had lightseeds jump into his head and the water knights had flies fly into their face
the hollow knight got the entire radiance sealed inside him

[polar fiber]

watcher knights died and got reanimated by the flies

[lone folio]

I mean her horns are that of herrahs

[silk dirge]

every masterpiece

has its cheap copy

[sinful nimbus]

Soul Master vs Groal

[lone folio]

Tough one

[mossy jay]

I think Soul Master takes it.

[lone folio]

Soul master

He clearly had better control over soul though it could be a close fight since groal is a pretty strong bug and has vengeful spirit

[twin dragon]

this is NOT close soul master could do so much more

[halcyon merlin]

groal because soul master is easier to kill in-game :clueless:

[empty lotus]

ok but groal killed a snail shaman

you'd think a snail shaman is stronger than SM right

[sinful nimbus]

Soul Master also got his spell from a shaman

[empty lotus]

also groal is more durable cuz like soul master is basically on soul life support

[lone folio]

Guy got trapped

[empty lotus]

its why he shrivels up like a raisin when staggered

[lone folio]

What's vengeful gonna do when he has his back turned away from the giant spiked ball heading his way

[twin dragon]

he barely has any control over soul

he'd prob explode mid fight

[empty lotus]

yes indeed

ok but what if soul master is mucked

he cant focus = he cant get rid of the muckmaggots

[twin dragon]

What if soul master is forced to do 39993 groal runbacks because he died on the way

[empty lotus]

the dart spitting guys would pop him like a baloon with the darts

[lone folio]

Maybe it is a close fight who knows

[foggy stratus]

Just wondering, what the fuck is the Mist?

[twin dragon]

Basically the shit that exhaust organ expells

[lone folio]

Depends on if groal gets muck maggots and traps

If they fight in an empty arena with a flat ground then soul master probably wins

[foggy stratus]

What the fuck is wrong with it to produce the effects the Mist area has?

[empty lotus]

I think it's Phantom's silk stuff meshed up with her will to create illusions and ghosts? yeah it's weird

[idle oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/tiny-small-little-just-a-little-guy-inch-gif-5676598

[halcyon merlin]

i thought it expelled thrash

[idle oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/spam-gif-3643884685273536140

https://tenor.com/view/little-nightmares-mono-mono-little-nightmares-dance-excited-gif-17728219153232435310

https://tenor.com/view/little-nightmares-horror-cinematic-platformer-six-hungry-gif-23278350

[covert night]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-discord-memes-discord-meme-this-channel-fucking-sucks-danny-devito-gif-13763999073670729814

[twin dragon]

contamination and phantom's own will

[fathom hill]

if it's through lightseeds defo shed get infected, dreams?

[unique lodge]

What is widow supposed to be then

[lone folio]

A Weaver

And a fanatic with issues

[dawn sluice]

well the lightseeds only seem to infect dead things so i’d reckon it becomes a question of whether she dies to hallownest creatures
and about dreams, if someone isn’t determined or focused enough they get infected, so someone scatterbrained like bretta gets infected easily

[unique lodge]

Yes but widow looks weird like why does she look like that

[lone folio]

She got her mask ripped off

And then either Weavers have that wierd silly stuff under the mask or she is wearing some cloth to hide her face

[arctic cliff]

She also have small steel chest plate

[dusk harness]

Seriously like. Widow having her mask removed is so interesting because we get almost nobody aside from the mask makers actually unmasked. And it looks like without a mask, a face, a person to be an identity to hold, you just go crazy

[unique lodge]

Weavers must be wearing big a** masks

[arctic cliff]

Oh yes, city of STEEL

Ofc

[plain epoch]

She's had her mask "forcibly" removed, so it implies it's part of her, rather than something she wears.

[dusk harness]

Does she???

[arctic cliff]

Yup

Difficult to notice

[unique lodge]

Doesn't subtract from my point that the masks are probably huge compared to the head itself

[plain epoch]

Oh yeah.

[dusk harness]

Especially since Pharlids, the things that Weavers were before GMS made them weavers, are naturally masked bugs. Widow had a part of her body that’s been on since birth torn off no wonder she’s a bit loony

[plain epoch]

I wonder if Hornet's head is just a little bean.

[dusk harness]

It’s like a lobotomy

[dusk harness]

Stop. The idea of unmasked hornet just being bean makes my cognition dissonant

I mean I’d expect her inner head to match the shape of the mask though I guess that’s not a requirement given Widow’s head looks nothing like the weaver masks

[twin dragon]

It's p much confirmed we see that several times

Now we know why hornet's body is so small

[plain epoch]

I saw some depictions showing it as something like GMS, but with Herrah's eyes. But I prefer the bean head theory.

[empty lotus]

Ok but WHY is Herrah's body so different from the other weavers

[unique lodge]

Maybe herah is half weaver

[fathom hill]

embrace stickman

[dusk harness]

I wonder then is it just like. Empty space. Because First Sinner shows us a cracked mask and the inside looked sort of hollow

[fathom hill]

I've seen fanart of her having like a tarantulas face so like

everytime i imagine her without mask she just looks bald cuz no bigass horns

[empty lotus]

impossible, a lore tablet in the cradle calls hornet "weaver in half part", which means if Herrah was indeed half weaver hornet would be quarter weaver

[twin dragon]

Ig, then there's the head

[foggy fractal]

we have no in universe explanation
the out of universe one was she was never intended to be a weaver

[plain epoch]

Herrah probably looks weird because she's from the early batch of Weavers. First Sinner looks kinda different from the others, maybe she came after Herrah.

[empty lotus]

uhh, no weaver intended to be a weaver, they didn't have a choice

[empty lotus]

I've seen a theory that Herrah was an ascended Drapemite (instead of a Pharlid)

[unique lodge]

Wait i thought the three cradle lore tablets all say eight part or forth part and weren't referring to hornet

[foggy fractal]

I meant that Team Cherry didn't design Herrah with her being a weaver in mind back when they made Hollow Knight

[midnight zinc]

Also the choral commandment possessed by one of the bugs who caught her calls Hornet a half weaver

[plain epoch]

Could be. Then GMS didn't like her face and just started working with Pharlids instead or something.

[empty lotus]

oh yeah in that case that has merit

[empty lotus]

yup, also GMS was aware that it was the Wyrm's kingdom which is a neat detail

[midnight zinc]

Weirdly enough though, even though in that same commandment they refer to Hallownest as the kingdom of the “white wyrm”, there isn’t direct acknowledgment that Hornet is related to the Pale King, which makes me wonder how widely known that is amongst the citadel bugs

[dusk harness]

I wonder if. Okay genuinely nonsensical theory but. The Mask Maker in Pharloom reads Hornet’s mask and says “Hunter” as one of the descriptors. The Hunter crest is Hornet’s natural crest, that’s who she is before she starts collecting soul imprints like pokemon cards. There are all sorts of crests for different roles. Shamans, beasts, witches. And we see from the room above Styx’s nest that it’s possible to collect or wear other masks. Become different people. What if, to be a queen, you can’t just be a hunter or a weaver or whatever. What if Ruler is a specific crest, and since there weren’t any dead rulers around to bind theirs, Herrah needed a new mask to become queen and take on the role. Where’s Hallownest’s mask maker again? Deepnest. What if Herrah went to the Mask Maker and had the new mask made so she could take her role as Queen of the weavers

[empty lotus]

The Citadel Bugs captured Hornet after they were haunted, which means possesed by GMS, and she would definetely hold that knowledge

[unique lodge]

Did they?

[empty lotus]

well yeah, it's gms who wanted Hornet in Pharloom

[midnight zinc]

True, this is what I was wondering. The weavers knew, but it’s not clear what they told her. But I suppose Widow would’ve told her if they didn’t.

[empty lotus]

I think GMS can just sense her children from vast distances, I mean how else was she able to find so many of them in such distant lands

[unique lodge]

Yes but i could see why the conductors would have possibly wanted her as well

[midnight zinc]

I do actually like the theory that Mask Maker made the dreamer masks, he has no other significance in the world if he didn’t, and those are the most important masks in the game.

[midnight zinc]

Fair enough, though I suppose now I’m just wondering why Hornet didn’t know about any of this lol

[empty lotus]

Ok but uhh when Hornet's brought into Pharloom the haunting is literally in progress and there is exactly one conductor who's still alive

[regal crow]

What happened to coral tower after we beat the last guantlet? Tons of coral spikes covered the room before we went to khann

[empty lotus]

Also we get clear dialogue from Lace AND the Silk Hearts that it is in fact GMS who wants Hornet

[empty lotus]

I suppose the Weavers didn't have time to tell her because they needed to abort Hallownest due to the Infection? But I do wonder how a bunch of choirbugs captured Hornet with one cage

[regal crow]

They used magic to weaken her

Same reason we have to reacquire her powers

[fathom hill]

i mean did the weavers know gms could sense them?

They did know she will come for them maybe

[empty lotus]

Is there evidence for that? A choral commandment only tells us they "quelled her with a rune cage" so idk

[fathom hill]

that's why they set hornet to be hopefully the one that frees them

[unique lodge]

We have no idea how long it took the guys to go from pharloom to hallownest and back it could be perfectly possible that the conductors decided to capture her in an effort to stop the haunting or possibly gms influenced the conductors to start capturing weavers (my theory isn't great i just think it's cool)

[fathom hill]

they were the same that fleed hallownest to go to pharloom tho so like

[regal crow]

Yeah, super early in the game she explains how she was captured and they placed some kinda seals on her to weaken her

[midnight zinc]

The weavers left Hallownest recently before the events of the game we play during, so that’s not it. They helped raise her, but told her nothing of their origin. She didn’t even seem to know of Pharloom’s existence.

[empty lotus]

Cool theory but Lace's dialogue kinda debunks it sadly

[unique lodge]

This is why i don't like lace

[empty lotus]

Oh you're right!

[regal crow]

She had no idea who they were or why they took her, that was also made clear

[unique lodge]

Is swearing allowed on this server?

[empty lotus]

It's weird then that the Weavers knew that it would be Hornet who arrives to help them out

[empty lotus]

I guess

[midnight zinc]

I guess they knew GMS would come for her eventually

[unique lodge]

Fuck yeah

[empty lotus]

Maybe that's why they didn't tell her about her origin? Cause then she would avoid Pharloom like a wildfire probably

Herrah kinda told Hornet to do her own thing so I doubt she'd listen to the Weavers

And the Weavers were smart so they probably knew taht

[unique lodge]

I feel like hornet would go there anyway it wasn't like she went there willingly anyway and if she knew about this far of land she would probably explore out of curiosity

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest weavers didn't want Hornet to go to Pharloom

[regal crow]

Fuck yes

[sinful nimbus]

The goal of fleeing the kingdom was to start anew according to the Cindril Rune Harp

[dusk harness]

It’s so sad how the weavers fled their kingdom only to meet their end in Hallownest

[unique lodge]

Probably

[empty lotus]

Not all Weavers escaped to Hallownest though

[unique lodge]

The weavers possibly fled to other places then hallownest

[dusk harness]

Well yeah

Weavenest cindril proves that

[midnight zinc]

Most of the weavers that went to Hallownest left to survive the infection, it seems like only a handful of them died in Deepnest.

[rugged storm]

so the weaver that gives silk spear was known as the weaver of healing, and it's suggested that she's camora. The weavers may have represented ideas to the pilgrims, almost like a... pantheon

[fathom hill]

maybe they just hoped she would be

[dusk harness]

Say that again…

[fathom hill]

tried to raise her for it but herrah said that it was her choice

[dusk harness]

Did they?

[marsh wagon]

what are vessels

[craggy smelt]

Void given form (and wearing a dead body)

[marsh wagon]

❓

[craggy smelt]

did you play the first game? they're mainly part of that story