sk-lore

[spark valve]

nobody is saying hallownest had zero social inequalities but that doesn't mean it's his fault

[lucid fossil]

this why they introduced shards into silksong

[silk dirge]

hallownest has nothing on the scale of underworks

[sinful nimbus]

White Lady biology, or they needed to ensure the vessel needed an intact shell

[lucid fossil]

wtf does the first one mean

[silk dirge]

also if you think about it the entire choir is basically slavery

[sinful nimbus]

You can't control how many kids you have

[lucid fossil]

are u saying she laid millions of eggs half her size in one go

[brittle cedar]

Pk did let soul sanctum happen

[silk dirge]

sure its a grand life but you are basically forced to sing forever

[silk dirge]

he did not

[spark valve]

no he didn't

[vestal swan]

The entire citadel structure is fucked

[sinful nimbus]

It wasn't millions... that's made up

[lucid fossil]

didn't he hate it

[silk dirge]

he was literally against it 😭

[brittle cedar]

orly

[lucid fossil]

bud it was hyperbolic but there is definitely millions of children, maybe not millions of eggs

[silk dirge]

i mean you could make a case basically everyone ever involved in the citadel was a slave to gms

[spark valve]

there really isn't that many but it doesn't matter

[lucid fossil]

the entire abyss and down is full of children, even the place where you get void heart is just children

[sinful nimbus]

Well its feasible she laid multiple eggs at once yes.... she's a plant

[stone herald]

pre haunting more so contracted by the weavers who manipulated them

[spark valve]

the game like explicitly says that many times over

[sinful nimbus]

Said eggs are plant seeds

[stone herald]

slavery isnt clear cut as a lot of people make it out to be, theres very much degrees to it

[lucid fossil]

did PK haaavveee to make them climb up with parkour? he could've just made an elevator!

[spark valve]

why would he do that

[silk dirge]

yeah ofc like conductors while still pretty much being slaves to gms were much better off than underworkers

[lucid fossil]

because he's a good dad

[stone herald]

ig the climb showed which vessels were fit? being hollow probably wasnt enough, the vessel would probably have to be physically strong enough (THK had to be raised to perfection, and the knight is presumably just that strong at this point)

[sinful nimbus]

Vessels aren't intended to be children

[silk dirge]

i cant believe gms propagandists actually exist

[spark valve]

people defend radiance too

[vestal swan]

Where do you pull up the conversations that you have with ghosts before you absorb them? It's not under journal or NPC

[sinful nimbus]

GMS isn't even a dragon

[lucid fossil]

they are still children

[stone herald]

conductors were assholes tbh

[silk dirge]

ahh yes capturing random ass weaver descendants is perfectly fine

[lucid fossil]

IM ONE OF THEM RADIANCE IS JUSTIFIED

[sinful nimbus]

Bait used to be believable

[lucid fossil]

look at dream bosses i guess

[sinful nimbus]

Spirits?

[vestal swan]

I mean on the bot

I didn't see him in spirits either

[lucid fossil]

oh

[silk dirge]

they were

[sinful nimbus]

Its under NPCs misc

[stone herald]

the conductors were also really bad tbh

[silk dirge]

but basically gms is the entire reason any of this needs to exist

[lucid fossil]

wtf did they do

[silk dirge]

but conductors were more greedy than weavers imo

[stone herald]

Bilewater

[lucid fossil]

what

[silk dirge]

they had a choice and they decided to take power from the weavers according to the game

[random harbor]

Soul Tyrant - General - After Defeat

In my dreams I could see it. The Kingdom's salvation, the cure for the plague... the answer was in the soul that animates our bodies.
But the King... why?! He opposed everything I did...
His jealousy... his madness... by standing against me he robbed me of my immortality!
Now the King and his Kingdom are dead... but I... will live forever.

@powderedwater_ used /npcs misc name: Soul Tyrant category: General dialogue: After Defeat

[stone herald]

nah definitely not the weavers were worse, but the conductors were super bad, the citadel in the weavers absence was still highly oppressive

[vestal swan]

@brittle cedar

[spark valve]

They both did like the same shit

[stone herald]

though you could make the point that the conductors HAD to do all this nasty stuff to keep GMS imprisoned

[silk dirge]

i mean weavers did the citadel partially out of necessity they were slaves to gms

so they have a bit of justification to me conductors dont

[stone herald]

weavers still selfish assholes tbh

[silk dirge]

which doesnt excuse any of the other shit they did

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong fans discussing whether or not Fascist A is better than Fascist B is better than Fascist C is better than Fascist 1 is better than Fascist 2 is better than Fascist 3

[spark valve]

Everyone was bad

[lucid fossil]

do we even know this yet? it just sounded like they were living in her kingdom instead of being slaves

[stone herald]

ngl pharloom was probably literally fascist

[silk dirge]

yes

[lucid fossil]

what about pillby

[lucid fossil]

How

[vestal swan]

You know it's really funny about this, hilarious even. If they had captured one Weaver, the sanctum would have succeeded in at least one of their goals

[sinful nimbus]

Why didn't they capture PK

Are they stupid

[stone herald]

how would they capture PK

[vestal swan]

They don't want recycled silk

[lucid fossil]

huh

[sinful nimbus]

He even showed up at the sanctum to tell them off they had the opportunity

[stone herald]

PK could probably throw hands

[vestal swan]

The whiteward successfully used silk infusions to keep a bug's alive

[spark valve]

Don’t forget the cindril rune harp

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong establishes gods are bumbling idiots who can fall for obvious traps

[stone herald]

the soul sanctum guys were no hornet

[lucid fossil]

i thought the purpose of the sanctum was to avoid the infection not death

[stone herald]

plus the pale king probably had guards, you cant kidnap him in his own city

[vestal swan]

I don't know if I would call it an obvious trap
The cutscenes show GMS has the weavers playing music for her all the time
Part of the spell was magic music
Play music
???
Profit

[lucid fossil]

ah he does mention immortality. i guess it was both

[sinful nimbus]

mfw the God of Silk capable of magically sensing Silk falls for a Silk trap

[vestal swan]

They started out trying to cure the infection and then that twisted into a search for immortality, and they got tricked by the radiance around that point which got them infected

[spark valve]

GMS is exceptionally weak and pathetic

[stone herald]

yall shitting on GMS like she didnt get out of a huge nap

[lucid fossil]

yess my queen the radiance go show those soul bugs who's boss

[stone herald]

put some respect on GMS name, she handled the void for like, a little bit

[lucid fossil]

Sorry

[sinful nimbus]

Its embarrassing that she even got into the nap in the first place

Or in the void

[lucid fossil]

she probably could've escaped if it was for lace

[stone herald]

nah not really the void, hornet just beat the crap outta her

[sacred heath]

it’s the perfect trap
oh joy more silk that I casnoooork mimimimi snoooork mimimimi

[sinful nimbus]

That's also embarrassing

[cedar owl]

• never leaves the cradle
• never cuts her hair
• never showers

[stone herald]

getting mid diffed by hornet isnt embarrasing

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet lost to the Citadel henchman

[lucid fossil]

hey her hair looks nice

[sinful nimbus]

GMS is also a literal deity

[stone herald]

they kept coming, there was no winning

[sinful nimbus]

Why is she losing to a mortal

[stone herald]

Hornet is batman

[lucid fossil]

yeah but hornet has like infinite lives or something

[brittle cedar]

she's just not a morning person

[sinful nimbus]

She's a garbage higher being and whats more she's not a dragon

[spark valve]

a mortal who gets some of her powers from gms herself

[silk dirge]

thk chilling on the dirtmouth bench while 20 reeds jump hornet

[sacred heath]

because she’s not immune to exhaustion

[cedar owl]

her hair is a few kilometers long stretching all over pharloom
maybe it's time for a haircut

[stone herald]

also yeah gods in HK arent Capital G Gods

[vestal swan]

• gaslight
• gatekeep
• girl boss
• redditor

[silk dirge]

silk snipper time

[stone herald]

theyre not all bums but theyre not allat anyways

[spark valve]

hornet wyrm genes putting in work

[sinful nimbus]

They are allat

[stone herald]

not strictly in a fight

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance was far more scary

Yes in a fight

[spark valve]

well yeah radiance isn't a fraud

[stone herald]

radiance was a heavyweight yeah

[silk dirge]

radiance is like the 2nd most powerful hb

[sinful nimbus]

Pale King also was presumably more skilled

[stone herald]

held up well against the void

[silk dirge]

behind shade lord

[stone herald]

I mean all GMS got to do was play house for a couple centuries then get jumped, not like she took jujitsu classes

[spark valve]

gms is just a loser who's never had to actually fight anything even half as powerful as her and doesn't know what she's doing

[sinful nimbus]

But for a god who can teleport and sense silk to get trapped in the Citadel is an awful look and proves she's a garbage higher being

[vestal swan]

Radiance wasn't put to sleep she was sealed up still technically in her element, all she needed was a crack and she could just reach out some more, it's just that once she reached out she was basically regaining power, GMS needed more weavers

[vestal swan]

Teleport?

[sacred heath]

comparing GMS and Radi in terms of power level is like comparing a stick of dynamite to a hydrogen bomb

[sinful nimbus]

She does in the intro doesn't she

[silk dirge]

i think a lot of radiances strength comes from the fact shes the god of dreams so its really hard to fight her

[stone herald]

yeah its not like GMS really got into fights beforehand, its not that embarrasing that she lost her first fight against the goddamned hornet

[vestal swan]

Pretty sure she just rises up from beneath it

[sinful nimbus]

I mean you can use silk to teleport regardless

If she doesn't know a basic silk spell that's even more embarrassing lmaoooooo

[vestal swan]

I mean it's not like the teleport spell it's between two pieces of technology

[sinful nimbus]

First Sinner teleports

[silk dirge]

like gms or any other physical hb you could go and just poke with a sword

[stone herald]

Radiance also probably fought the void in the past so she has experience

[vestal swan]

?

[visual glacier]

So does shakra

[spark valve]

fs would probably beat gms's ass should've just done that as the atla plan

[silk dirge]

radiance you need to get into a dream with her and kill her there

[lucid fossil]

but it soft

[sacred heath]

either skittering into the background like widow or weird dream bs

[spark valve]

hell other weavenests were making weapons shoulda just let them do their thing

[sinful nimbus]

No First Sinner like actually has a teleport animation that uses silk, Shakra is just moving really fast

[vestal swan]

First sinner is fast as fuck are you sure you're not just blinking

[spark valve]

you can see her explode into silk when she does it it's a teleport

[vestal swan]

Huh

[sacred heath]

weird dream bs it is then

[sinful nimbus]

Just accept GMS is a bad higher being dawg

[stone herald]

First sinner does a thing with silk then appears to teleport yeah

[brittle cedar]

Weaver should've teamed up with the flame cult

[sinful nimbus]

Why are we even glazing her

[vestal swan]

FS has all the origin spells damn

[sinful nimbus]

How on earth do you get attached to GMS she has no screentime or characterization

[silk dirge]

i mean she does have good hair

[visual glacier]

Not thread storm

[silk dirge]

ill give her that

[spark valve]

soul teleporting is well established anwyays

[stone herald]

Yall hating on GMS until we fight punished hyperbolic time chamber absolute lost Grand mother silk

[cedar owl]

I have a sweet spot for women with long hair

[sinful nimbus]

Don't care the abdomen ruins the design

[visual glacier]

Hornet is bald

[brittle cedar]

her yoink attack is pretty phat

[stone herald]

how

[silk dirge]

so your telling me we could learned this instead of rune rage but first sinner didnt teach us it

thats her sin

[stone herald]

maybe hornet just cant do that

ngl hornet and the knight are lowkey bums they straight up cannot teleport

[cedar owl]

of course silk can teleport you
wtf can silk not do in this fucking game

[silk dirge]

i wish rune rage was better

[brittle cedar]

give wings

[vestal swan]

Break the veil by itself

[sinful nimbus]

Its really funny how TC entirely gave up on giving Silk spells a unique identity halfway through the game and just turned them into soul spells again

[silk dirge]

rune rage is so cool but its ass bc the enemy can move like a centimeter

[stone herald]

not like vessels and weavers cant teleport, The knight and hornet are bums

[cedar owl]

it's soul spells and essence and electricity and everything else

[spark valve]

rune rage is fine and anyone having trouble using it is having a skill issue it just takes some amount of timing on your end

[foggy fractal]

silk can't make the lore better

😔

[cedar owl]

but it can make it worse

[sinful nimbus]

Rune Rage isn't fine why would I want a spell that autotargets stuff for me 🥀

Its competing with funner spells too

[spark valve]

silk magic is just soul magic and most of what we see it do is shit we've already seen soul do

[silk dirge]

i mean i used it a bit but theres definitely better imo

[stone herald]

quirrel can also teleport but hes just moving fast, what the hell is he on, hes just an old man

[silk dirge]

pale nails is goated

[sinful nimbus]

Why didn't they ripoff more MHRise moves instead of ripping off PV moves

[silk dirge]

ahh yes 3d moves in a 2d game

[brittle cedar]

Hornet should've gotten a lasso

[sinful nimbus]

GMS after I combo a Silk Discharge into a Soaring Wyrm Dive

[foggy fractal]

gms after I uhhhh

[stone herald]

itd step on the clawline a bit

[silk dirge]

why cant we get what hornet does in the opening cutscene as a silk skill

[foggy fractal]

idk ? decensending dark ?

[silk dirge]

LMAO

😭

[stone herald]

did hornet really inherit any abilities from the pale king other than just being super strong

[silk dirge]

girl got modded

[spark valve]

hornet's malleable nature which allows her to use different crests comes from her wyrm side

[stone herald]

oh right

[silk dirge]

i mean we dont even know what pk can do

we know he can change crests but we never see him fight

[spark valve]

plus her silk abilities are noted to be abnormally strong

[silk dirge]

he can probably do some crazy soul attacks

[stone herald]

Pale king genes really playing support here

[cedar owl]

she inherited the worst parts from him

[silk dirge]

id bet pk can probably do like a really powerful vs

[brittle cedar]

didn't inherit monarch wings. massive L.

[stone herald]

oh right thats probably what the PK looks like huh? that body type

[silk dirge]

the stick

[spark valve]

pk's magic would probably look more like pv's nail conjurings than shaman magic

[stone herald]

Groal the great ripoff, worst king ever, another classic Hallownest L

[silk dirge]

yeah probably

id imagine he could probably just make a soul blob and yeet it at someone

[sacred heath]

congratulations star you’ve successfully made a take so dogshit it flashbanged my brain for a solid ten seconds

[stone herald]

rune rage is dogshit

[silk dirge]

anyways wtf is up with this

[cedar owl]

there's a theory that the pale king's body glows white because of the abundance of soul in him, like this
I think it's a cool idea

[foggy fractal]

so these ?

[silk dirge]

that shit looks crazy

[spark valve]

the solitar method

[stone herald]

LORE NVKE: FIRST SINNER WAS CAPTURED BECAUSE SHE SPAMMED HER SHITTY RUNE RAGE

[spark valve]

probably

[foggy fractal]

I remember someone making an animation for that

[silk dirge]

we all know pk wouldnt summon blades tho

[stone herald]

a pale king fight wouldve been cool, even though theres no justification for it lorewise

KAI CENAT FREE REWARDS???

[silk dirge]

GET THEM

[carmine oak]

this game heavily implies Hornet gets super old right
like in HK everyone joked about how Hornet was older than Elderbug
but I think this is confirming that weavers just live super long

[stone herald]

Weavers mnight but its the wyrm side, Hornet doesnt age much, she is very veyr old though yeah

[toxic mulch]

I believe her long life is more from PK

[brittle cedar]

Hornet also doesn't need to eat so she's pretty special

[spark valve]

she's half weaver which live a long time and half wyrm which live forever

[silk dirge]

are hbs time immortal

[spark valve]

wl doesn't seem to be

[toxic mulch]

We don't know that for certain

They just have extremely absurd long lives

[silk dirge]

yeah

[carmine oak]

ah ok

[stone herald]

Hornet probably does age, though very slowly
Given her lifestyle shes probably not going to die of old age though

[vestal swan]

PKs not immortal he was doping with silk

[silk dirge]

idt he was using the silk to extend his life

[stone herald]

PK probably can do that jellyfish thing to live forever for real

[silk dirge]

he was using it for rune shit with thk

[stone herald]

and for seals of binding, probably also for tinkering

[toxic mulch]

He used silk for the runes but I doubt he knew anything about it extending life

[brittle cedar]

wyrms do that rebirth thing, maybe they do it indefinetely, just getting smaller every time.

[silk dirge]

i mean weavers probably suggested trying to soul snare the radiance

would that work probably not

[cedar owl]

finally found the fanart I was looking fo

[toxic mulch]

Probably not,GMS was only properly snared using void

[silk dirge]

where are hornets wings 😭

[brittle cedar]

by god he's naked

[silk dirge]

she got the worst genes wtf

[stone herald]

youd still need to do the vessel thing to isolate the radiance fully is the thin

if you think about it the PoP is, in spirit, the pale king bossfight

[silk dirge]

man that vespa boss fight wouldve been cool

[toxic mulch]

Unfortunately where it's placed it just wouldn't work

I'd love to see it in dlc tho

[silk dirge]

yeah

i like 3q as a concept i just think red memory could do it better

[stone herald]

im calling it, the silksong "pantheon" is going to be in hornets memories

[cedar owl]

no I bet TC would've given her the karmelita treatment and made it so she would be blocking 90% of the time

[silk dirge]

if hornet is truly a daughter of hallownest then 3q makes a lot of sense for it

[cedar owl]

god I hate karmelita

[silk dirge]

L take

[stone herald]

i feel like karmelita would be too easy if that blocking didnt buffer the silk you got from her tbh

[foggy fractal]

https://x.com/hornet8842/status/1765996110814847461/photo/1 found the fanart i was looking fo too

Void (Comms Open) (@hornet8842)

cool sprite ideas i had for the pale king
more coming later maybe probably

X · Mar 8, 2024, 7:00 AM

[brittle cedar]

I like that she says that to lace who has probably never heard of Hallownest

[vestal swan]

Imagine not first trying Carmelita

[cedar owl]

sometimes the truth is an L take

[silk dirge]

shes blocks at consistent times

[toxic mulch]

Karmelita is kinda like nkg,you absolutely HATE fighting them until you get that perfect rhythm

[foggy fractal]

erm... it's Karmelita....

[cedar owl]

doesnt matter if it's consistent. I HATE IT
let me fucking hit her team cherry, I dont wanna wait her turn to attack this isnt fucking tennis

[silk dirge]

krill issue

[cedar owl]

this is why first sinner is so universally beloved and fun. you can go ballista on her

[stone herald]

cheer up gang we are getting the pale king boss fight in HK 3, much like we're getting the vespa bossfight in silksong

[silk dirge]

same could be said for karmelita lol

[stone herald]

i went to team cherry and the cherry told me

[silk dirge]

most people enjoy her

[cedar owl]

ping me, pussy

[silk dirge]

yeah

[cedar owl]

it's like a dance!!!! it just clicks!!!!!!!!

omg guys im feeling it!!!!

[stone herald]

i cant wait to see what bossrush bosses TC cooks up.

[silk dirge]

hhg should be in it

[toxic mulch]

Silksongs godhome equivalent is gonna be brutal

[stone herald]

SIlksongs bosses already better than hollow knights big 4 (TRVTH NVKE), imagine what comes next

[cedar owl]

ehhh

[stone herald]

mechanically at least

[cedar owl]

idk about that

[toxic mulch]

I genuinely don't think most players will be able to complete silksongs godhome

[stone herald]

nah its true its a fact, and its absolutely correct

[silk dirge]

pv wishes it was first sinner

[cedar owl]

first sinner and lost lace are up there for sure. the rest are ehhh

[stone herald]

nah pure vessel has insane aura

[vestal swan]

[Hornet]:Another time, perhaps. Among
the few gifts of my birth, I find rare need for sustenance.

Future reference because I keep seeing people say otherwise, she needs to eat, she's not immune and this does not confirm her father didn't need it either

[silk dirge]

thats a wild take considering hk has no shortage of bad bosses

me when dream warriors

[stone herald]

HK's average boss quality is wayyyy lower than silksong, i dont think its a debate

[cedar owl]

he was specifically talking about the big 4

[silk dirge]

yeah for sure

[toxic mulch]

Silksongs bosses are simply more difficult and a lot less of them are duds

[silk dirge]

i mean what that even is is very subjective idk

[stone herald]

grey prince zote ?

[foggy fractal]

what does hornet like to eat

[stone herald]

i act liked GPZ a lot

[cedar owl]

I understood it pretty well, you're just on a different brainwave than burmese and me

[vestal swan]

Apparently nothing Pharloom has to offer she doesn't comment about eating anything or her tastes once

[stone herald]

i was readying the weapons at the hint that Sisters of battle was in the big 4

[vestal swan]

Besides thinking that muckmaggot smells too bad

[stone herald]

shes drinking a bunch of flea brew

[cedar owl]

they eat silk

[silk dirge]

pv, nkg, radiance, ???

[cedar owl]

they drink silk, they breathe silk

[vestal swan]

She drinks moonshine and tavern ale and eats silkmaggots but that's it

[stone herald]

grey prince zote

[silk dirge]

oh nah 😭

[foggy fractal]

maybe she only likes hallownest cuisine 🤔

[stone herald]

Sisters of battle geniunely gets neg diffed by father of the flames

[vestal swan]

Gruzzer milkshakes and Pilgrim cookies

[silk dirge]

😭

[toxic mulch]

[stone herald]

?purge 22

?purge 10000

[toxic mulch]

Fair enough lol

[silk dirge]

guilty of the sin of food discussion

[stone herald]

pharloom cuisine is definitely ass

[cedar owl]

punishment by swallowing

[toxic mulch]

We're all too damn gluttonous 😔

[vestal swan]

Guilty of the sin of irl food discussion while gruzzer milk exists

[silk dirge]

anyone who wants to eat muckmaggot is crazy

i would toss that shit and run if it was served to me

[foggy fractal]

let'

[toxic mulch]

How dare you insult the cooking of ass Jim

[foggy fractal]

s talk about dlcs, when are we getting the first one y'all think

[brittle cedar]

it's all the citadel's fault for transforming greymoor

[toxic mulch]

December or January is my guess

[silk dirge]

i think itll be pharloom bay and lifeblood spire, coming late this year or early next year

[foggy fractal]

nah that's too soon 😭

[stone herald]

the muckmaggot reminded me of some of those french food abominations that like 0.1% of people insist is a delicacy

[toxic mulch]

A holiday dlc would be perfect timing

[stone herald]

2036 and its another game 🔥

[silk dirge]

what do we think the first dlc will be i already put my thoughts above but idk about everyone else

[stone herald]

itll cost 2 cents adjusted for inflation

[silk dirge]

im 100% confident it wont be steel city

steel city is going to be a much later dlc probably

[foggy fractal]

even hollow knight's first dlc took 6 months
you expect silksong's first to take any less ? it's joever...

[silk dirge]

or even a 3rd game

[stone herald]

we're probably getting a third game

at least our children will

[toxic mulch]

I mean hollow knights dlcs didn't seem planned in advance like silksongs

[silk dirge]

become a silkfly so you can live forever to play steel city

[stone herald]

Yeah, TC has the money and time to just set everything up now

[foggy fractal]

I think the earliest we could get a dlc is feburary but no sooner than that

[silk dirge]

so what do you think itll be

[foggy fractal]

🤷‍♂️

[midnight zinc]

I think they’ll release the first DLC around Valentine’s Day, for an unofficial seven year anniversary since the game was announced

[toxic mulch]

They did say dlc would be ambitious tho so I'm expecting something huge

[silk dirge]

pharloom bay for a dlc would be pretty big

no hk dlc added a new area other than godmaster

[toxic mulch]

But I wouldn't be surprised if we get something tiny for the holidays like a boss or 2 and some quests to hold us over

[brittle cedar]

return of zote

[stone herald]

silksong..... hold us.... over......

[foggy fractal]

tc ? holding us over ? psh no way

[silk dirge]

also have yall seen gurrs improved attack

he does twirlies now

[foggy fractal]

yes

would've been cool if they kept the original animation for a quicker attack

[crystal iris]

Who’s Gurr?

I might just be forgetting :C

[silk dirge]

the other act 3 ant boss

[crystal iris]

Ohh the outcast guy

[silk dirge]

yeah

[crystal iris]

Neat

[brazen canyon]

In silksong does hallownest become like ancient or smth

[unique tangle]

it already is ancient by the events of HK

[crystal iris]

Yall is GMS a pale being or a higher being?

[foggy fractal]

both

[crystal iris]

I’ve seen people say either or

[crystal iris]

K

[brazen canyon]

Yea but like in silksong why is it all overrun

[foggy fractal]

Journal Entry: Heart of the Haunting, long lulled to slumber and desperate to wake. The higher being’s threads stretched throughout Pharloom, snaring its bugs and driving them to madness and discord.

Snail Shaman dialogue: "Through their march, at the far border of these lowlands, seek the last queen of the ant hunters. We can sense her still... just. In youth, her voice united the wild tribes. Gave them the strength to resist the pale monarch's will... longer than most at least."

there's also several other dialogues describing GMS as pale

[open thicket]

how did lace even get in the abyss before the lost lace fight as in when she chats a bit with hornet when she is in reality in the void?

[eternal gazelle]

that's an astral projection

no fucking clue how she can do that

[random aspen]

yeah its like an illusion or something

no idea when she figured that one out

[eternal gazelle]

alternatively hornet is hallucinating

[craggy smelt]

one too many falls

[craggy smelt]

I would
I don't think we'll even hear about anything until next year

[frosty gate]

To be honest, chances are she always knew how to do it she just didn't have a reason to.
Phantom can do it

[frosty gate]

The Silk projection i mean

[stark halo]

Phantom's Silk projections are just glowing wispy beings with no definition that can only scream, and it'd be kind of odd for Lace to be able to project perfectly coherent Silk while overtaken by Void

Looks to me like it's mostly a representation of Hornet's thoughts

[bright silo]

Phantom can do it
when does she do that?

[frosty gate]

That's literally the Mists

[bright silo]

oh right

still that doesn't seem to be quite the same thing

but I see the connection

[frosty gate]

Phantom was failed

Lace is perfect

[vestal swan]

I wouldn't say lace is perfect she's just not aging

Also phantom is casting like seven of those things at a time

[frosty gate]

Well not perfect but she's doing better

[vestal swan]

Along with an illusion

[frosty gate]

I wonder if Lace can actually do the same but better

I imagine she just hasn't had the chance?

[vestal swan]

I think it's just different applications of the same base idea, like how different forms of teleport exist

Silk elevator teleport, soul teleport, silk teleport that only sinner can use, ghost teleport, moth essence teleport, dreamgate teleport, void teleport, nightmare teleport, whatever the fuck is happening in the lifeblood room when you walk in awake and leave asleep

[craggy smelt]

silklight teleporter is actually amazing

should've built more of those, all over the fuckin' place

[vestal swan]

They might only be able to go in a specific direction but it's still pretty good

[silk dirge]

imagine if silk soar was a portable version of those

[timber pond]

Lifeblood room is probably in a dream. Or its something like Reverse Unn, The lifeblood creature Took a Real Place and put it in his Dream

That would actually be A sick end goal for lifeblood. Instead of Targeting Individuals, It targets Places and puts them in his realm.

[stray fog]

Its possible

Pk did that to the white palace

[timber pond]

IM thinking PK Might have actually TAKEN that power from The abyss Creature and did that to the white palace.

Because that room and the white palace are the only 2 "dreams" SEEM like real places.

But are sort of in this halfway between a memory of a real place and Dream projections

(of Buzzsaws)

[stray fog]

That's why the abyss creature is locked up in the abyss🤔

[timber pond]

It would be intresting if that is how he "outlawed" it

[stray fog]

It targets individuals too

Lifeblood takes over minds

[timber pond]

Not explicitly

It Has to Be willingly Ingested i think

Its Like , God Meth.

[stray fog]

In the red memory Hornet parkours over wingsmoulds so maybe the pale king just made his palace like that for some reason

[timber pond]

That is a stretch, considering its a memory space lol

I always thought The Thorns ,saws and spikes are the Pale kings Manifestation of Regret. Due to How the Path of Pain is Presented to us

[stray fog]

True

[stray fog]

Lifeblood definitely has some relation to dreams

There are blue essence particles

[timber pond]

I took it as that The Lifeblood Creature Propagated it enough to the point where It took that space in the Abyss into its Dream.

[stray fog]

I wonder if gms also has dream related powers but we just don't see them because there's no dreamnail

[timber pond]

There arent really any higher beings Besides GMS and Pale beings might HAve diffrent rules

[stray fog]

Maybe they want to keep hallownest unique in the amount of higher beings it has

That's why the god seekers came there in the first place

[silk dirge]

ok you know we were discussing silk hearts earlier and i think the real question with silk hearts isnt what they are lore wise its why is mosshome so silked up

[manic pewter]

Yeah i dont think the equivalent of the godhome dlc will be god seekers again

[silk dirge]

theres a lot of visible silk in mosshome

way more than any other act 1 area i think

[manic pewter]

Its a meta thought but weavernest atla used to be a way bigger area earlier in the dev cycle so maybe it was supposed to have some sorta influence on mosshome?

[craggy smelt]

Pilby: I've heard tales of a safe place, though. Just up above here, where the moss paints the stones green, there's an old village. Bit of a holy place, apparently, well protected.
Hornet: I've visited the settlement you speak of. It was built around a burial spire, corpse-home to an ancient Weaver.
Hornet: It is hardly safe though. The terrain is treacherous, and predators prowl its commons. I advise you avoid that place.

possibly to get a lot of pilgrims/victims

[silk dirge]

yeah possibly

[craggy smelt]

possibly to exploit the Weaver's burial shrine

[silk dirge]

since its around where a lot of pilgrims start their journey

maybe thats where a lot of them get demotivated which makes them easy prey for the haunting

and i think bell beast was not intentional

i dont see why gms would want to ensnare the bell beast specifically so probably she just got caught in the threads

[craggy smelt]

probably wouldn't have been un-happy to haunt a powerful beast, though it doesn't seem like it was taking with Bellbeast

(Belle?)

Bellbe

[trim prairie]

does anyone have a clearer image of the pattern that pulses around zi

[craggy smelt]

the one shown here is from the game files, I believe
the file itself would be the only clearer one

@trim prairie

[visual glacier]

Yeah it’s because it’s super hard to see in game

[manic pewter]

has anyone extracted all of the text from the game, bc it seems to be different to based hollow knight bc its encrypted

[visual glacier]

Yes

[visual glacier]

Fair warning there might be some cut content so tread carefully

[manic pewter]

Cut content is fun!

[visual glacier]

Just don’t mistake it with canon

Have fun

[manic pewter]

thank you!

[light mauve]

Because you need a lot of silk to contain the Druid in his room, otherwise the citadel is cooked

[visual glacier]

Their

[light mauve]

Their?

[visual glacier]

Not his

[light mauve]

Why not

[visual glacier]

Wdym why not

[light mauve]

Why isn’t it

[visual glacier]

They just aren’t called he

Is that hard to understand

[timber pond]

This rune sort of Reminds me Of The Ancient Civilization tablets in the abyss

[visual glacier]

It doesn’t really remind me

Tbh

[craggy smelt]

now that you mention it, it reminds me of the tablets in the Howling Cliffs, where you read them and a big faint rune is shown over the screen

but I don't think there's necessarily any connection

[timber pond]

Or rather, Weaver Runes Seem to have Musical notes. And this one is Much Like, Circuitry? More tightly Made To define and COmpact something?

[craggy smelt]

runes as circuitry would be very appropriate for the steelbugs

[visual glacier]

Steelhearts is the term used in game I believe

[timber pond]

Well , If runes define Purpose. Perhaps this is the Very "compression" mentioned? Making runes seems to be some kind of art

And if it Is, Then Only 3 Groups know how to sue that art:
Vassals
Weavers

Snail Shamans

Mabye the Pale king after a while?

[visual glacier]

Vassals? Do we see jinn or sula make runes?

[craggy smelt]

the comparison with the Farsight rune I think is meant to suggest that Zi is using the rune to 'see' stuff, observing the kingdom
I think the similarities the img highlights might be a stretch, but maybe not - maybe it's a stronger version of the farsighter

[visual glacier]

Also do we see shamans do it either?

[timber pond]

Speculation on that one, But I think They might know how to "use" them in rituals. Not Necessarily make i suppose. But it is Implied Sula Is Creating Markings and "preparing" throughout hte steel soul quest

[visual glacier]

They are preparing to summon thier saviour

[timber pond]

Caretaker makes The Trap For GMS With Thier own souls

[visual glacier]

Isn’t that based on weaver technology though?

I’m pretty sure that’s the weavers runes

[timber pond]

It has certainly Been modified by him to be a portal. I would say that takes some kind of study.

[visual glacier]

I wouldn’t say they made it for sure

[timber pond]

Snare setter only traps. But the trap he makes is litteraly a portal that is activated

[stark halo]

the highlighted area does look vaguely like a scope but also the steel seer rune kind of looks like a bug lol

[visual glacier]

The only peoples we know have 100% made runes are the weavers

Maybe white lady

[timber pond]

They can at the very Least Be modified and "known". Like i doubt The pale King ALWAYs employed the help of Weavers to Make Wingsmoulds and Kingsmoulds. Silk and runes were certainly in that process due to the copious mounts of spools he had in his workshop and the constant spools he had shipped to Hidden station

Weavers might have Been the Best at making them, and Silk is perhaps the Capital ingredient necessary to do so, but i think other bugs can "learn" how to do it, even if its not as efficient.

[visual glacier]

Yeah for example

[craggy smelt]

that might be a Weaver art, but yeah PV would be casting it with focus instead of silk

like 'thinking' the runes into existence rather than weaving them

[visual glacier]

Focusing isn’t the same thing as thinking

It’s more like an application of your own soul

And others if you’re doing ts

[craggy smelt]

using Soul runes without silk, is my point

(hope someone mod's PV into SS, i wanna fight them as Hornet real bad)

[visual glacier]

Me too

I imagine they’ll be a lot easier though

[craggy smelt]

they'd probably deal quad damage, though

[visual glacier]

Ascended PV isn’t that bad

Plus wanderer will go insane for staggering

[light mauve]

I think the focus of pv is original pale technique and first sinner just replicated that using silk

Because probably it was earlier than first sinner

Wait no

Probably not

But still I think it’s a pale technique not weaver

[light mauve]

Since pv uses multiple little swords with runes

[visual glacier]

Idk what you’re yapping about but whatever

[light mauve]

Read

[craggy smelt]

the vessels were born after Herrah and other Weavers came to Hallownest, and so after the Weaver rebellion

the techniques might be taught by GMS - the Pale Nails you get from here is like PV's nail wave

but PK might have incorporated a lot of weaver arts into his vessel project

[fossil ledge]

These tablets have their similarities

I had an extensive debate about whether the Pale King learned of these from the AC or if he simply knew the language/technology from before his time in Hallownest, but these are similar enough to consider a connection I'd say

[craggy smelt]

yea, but I was saying there was no connection between these tablets and Zi's rune
the howling cliffs tablet's effect of projecting a big rune onto the screen just reminded me of Zi's big rune

[fossil ledge]

Oh, that's fair

World Sense rune tablet also works similarly to that

The one you can find in the Black Egg

[craggy smelt]

hmm! let's dissect that rune for similarities with Farsight/Zi's Rune

a little bit, kinda sorta~!

[fossil ledge]

I see a vague resemblance, though not sure if enough to establish a connection either

It being different to both does lend credence to the idea that the Pale King had his own runes though

[timber wharf]

hey guys, this might be a dumb question but why is Seth guarding nyleth's shrine?

as in, killing anyone who dares to try to enter?

isn't the whole point of shrines for people to go in them to give their prayers and respect? why prevent people from doing that?

I would understand if his role was to like, prevent bugs from griefing the shrine and keeping an eye on it, but doesn't killing anyone who dares to try to enter kinda extreme?

[limber ferry]

absolutely amazing explenation i could shed a tear

[forest vigil]

why is there void in sk, is it present in the whole world?

[fresh badger]

Yeah

[light mauve]

Cuz bugs aren’t worthy

[dawn gyro]

Probably

[light mauve]

Because snail shamans opened the gate to it?

[kind steeple]

Where the game states that Hera is 100% weaver?

Herrah*

Holy shit each day I wake up I get dumber

[lethal burrow]

hornet is half weaver (as of silksong continuity rewrites) and the pale king isn't a Weaver so therefore herrah is full weaver.

[fresh badger]

Bro what shamans didnt teleport thr abyss into the kingdom

It was always there, the weavers had a mf diving bell to reach it and a weavenest filled with void in jars being studied

[vivid kernel]

wait so if GMS is canonically hornet’s grandma and is also lace’s mom is lace hornet’s aunt?

[fresh badger]

Yes !

[vivid kernel]

oh

but how

[fresh badger]

Wdym how

Bro she is a child.

[vivid kernel]

ou

i thought hornet called her child to like make fun of her

my bad

[limber ferry]

hey guys

would killing Nyleth do anything bad to shellwood considering shes dead anyways or

🤔

[lethal burrow]

naw she's very much straight up a child

<@&283547423706447872> more bot

[mighty zealot]

they're gone

[fathom hill]

she may not be

[lethal burrow]

and hornet may be void

[spring nexus]

I still feel like this isn't confirmation though ?
Similarly to how the Pale King wanted the Hollow Knight to be hollow, and well the game explicitly shows you it isn't
Well Lace is said to be an eternal child by decision of Grand Mother Silk, to be her eternal child, and well it's very obvious by looking at her and seeing how she acts that, well
No
That's not a child, as much as Grand Mother Silk wants her to be

[fathom hill]

Haven't said that, have you said that?

[spring nexus]

Lace and THK are also very obvious parallels

[lethal burrow]

It's just a good comparison

[fathom hill]

sure bud

[fathom hill]

They are

[fresh badger]

Lace literally laments the fact that she was created to act as a child, unable to change or develop or mature

None of her actions are not-childish

And that doesnt change the fact that every observer from the outside says "yo thats a child"

[spring nexus]

Going around killing people and speaking ceremoniously you mean ?

[fathom hill]

we will be talking about this until the end of time

[fresh badger]

Pilgrims say she sounds like a child, caretaker says she looks and thinks like a child

[spring nexus]

yes
One of which never saw her dfgdfg

[vestal swan]

The game says it like eight different times there's no reason to argue against it, you don't have any evidence for the contrary you just say she's not repeatedly

Please be quiet

[spring nexus]

Again the point is that she sounds like a child because her mother wants her to be, this iis a story about motherhood and like the Weavers realized they were never free of Grand Mother silk, well Grand mother silk made sure Lace was never to be anything else than her child, so she acts the part
But the point of the story by the end of it is to show that just doesn't happen, that's not possible, a mother cannot do that

[spring nexus]

????????????
We can't discuss lore here ???

[fresh badger]

Dawg it aint lore its freakiness

[spring nexus]

?????????

[fresh badger]

'Guys I know TC wants us to know shes a child but trust me bro she isnt trust"

[spring nexus]

THat's not what I said

I said the story very much feels like it's pointing at the opposite

[vestal swan]

When you're my argument amounts to nuh uh it's not really a discussion

[light mauve]

No I meant how the void broke free

[spring nexus]

Again that's not what I said ????

[fresh badger]

Occams razor

The game tells us several times she is a child
The game does not tell us she is not a child

The most straightforward conclusion is she is a child

[fathom hill]

says the one 🚫 reacting instead of actually refuting

[fresh badger]

Wdym broke free

[fathom hill]

this conversation is boring though we literally have it every other day

[vestal swan]

Except there's no evidence being provided you just saying you feel like she's not a child.. which is you saying nuh uh

[fresh badger]

Like the act 3 void haunting? @light mauve

[vestal swan]

I don't need to there's an image up above with eight points that are not being refuted, y'all have not provided anything as evidence

[fathom hill]

I have said my piece a couple times here

[vestal swan]

By the way calling the omniscient narrator of the Hunter's journal a bad narrator is not going to be good evidence just future reference

And it has never once been backed up by evidence

[fresh badger]

Powdered stop abusing mod perms and bypassing slowmode

[vestal swan]

Um

No

[fathom hill]

Lmao

[light mauve]

Ye

[fresh badger]

The void is on granny silk's silk threads

Since she got kicked into the abyss

[light mauve]

Ye

And she is not granny, she is mommy

Cuz grand is title

[vestal swan]

She is a granny though because her children have children

It means both

[stray fog]

Hornet's grandmother

If they wanted to use "grand" as a title, they would have realized that it sounds like "grandmother" instead of "grand mother"

[lethal burrow]

They just abused them more 😭

[vestal swan]

What slow mode do y'all even have in here I can't see the number because I'm immune

[silk dirge]

5 seconds

[vestal swan]

Oh that's basically non-existent

[silk dirge]

yeah but its mildly inconvenient

[stray fog]

The channel isn't that active anymore

[fathom hill]

only hinders the comedic rhythm of messages

[fathom hill]

it is boring today

[stray fog]

Compared to post release

[lethal burrow]

yeah, you should remove it. You would get cool points., you would be "the cool mod"

that's a big deal!

[vestal swan]

I was actually thinking about turning it up but chat hasn't been too crazy

[fathom hill]

they would never get cool mod from me

[stray fog]

There were both "black particles = void" and "lace is/isnt a child" conversations today 😭

[lethal burrow]

see? this is what you're subjecting yourself to by not taking away slow mode!

[fathom hill]

lmao

[lethal burrow]

can't even play bingo...

[fathom hill]

Can I bring up the herald again and we distract ourselves with that instead

[stray fog]

Yes

[fathom hill]

Hell yeah

[vestal swan]

Based higher being mushroom discussion

Do you think Mr mushroom can see why kids love Cinnamon toast crunch

[silk dirge]

he would say shit like "he who has not tasted grapes says sour" to this message

[stray fog]

If mr mushroom heralds major events, why are the knight and hornet the only people who have listened to him

Shouldn't he be informing a lot of people about whatever hes heralding

[fathom hill]

Only some can talk mushroom

[vestal swan]

They're not the only ones, the mushrooms of the original game pay attention to everything he said to

[stray fog]

Or does he just chill in dying kingdoms

[vestal swan]

Also yeah it's apparently not an easy language

[stray fog]

Oh

[fathom hill]

plus I'm sure he really doesn't mind at all about the heralding aspect, it could be more of a cryptid of sorts

The fact that Hornet actually seems to know him personally is interesting

[stray fog]

Hornet also knows about the steel masters

She's well educated

[fathom hill]

Like it's not that she has seem him before, she has talked to him directly

[stray fog]

In general knowledge

[fathom hill]

Fo sho

[vestal swan]

I think she tried to talk to him in the first game and got completely ignored which would be really funny for both her and TK to get ignored for like two games worth of time

[fathom hill]

Did she?

[stray fog]

So was the mr mushroom quest that we get in the putrified ducts placed by mr mushroom himself?

[fathom hill]

these are the dialogues if yall wanna hypothesize on what they mean or may reference

Third could be Celeste reference given how there seems to be another one with mt fey, both being mountains in canada

Start of seventh could be referencing both Lace and Hornet, pretty straight forward

[stray fog]

Im losing trust in the game reference theory

[vestal swan]

Some of these could also randomly be fourth wall breaks I'm wondering if that first one is supposed to be Xenoblade or something jrpg I don't know about

[stray fog]

There's no way that every dialogue is a reference to another game because if that was true, how have we only found 1 reference

[fathom hill]

the fifth one does mention a weapon as a friend so

[stray fog]

Especially with such a large player base

[fathom hill]

I'm pretty sure it must be a reference to something

[fathom hill]

ok so with the first game it did take a while

and we didn't get all references in the end

So it could be a mix or just tc having fun with it

Given how it's their own inspirations for the game, could be as obscure as you think

And the fact that realistically most don't care that much abt the herald

Most just side line it as rambling which

[vestal swan]

I'm going to take number five as my next anime reference that they didn't mean to make and say it's about soul eater

[gloomy heart]

They also could be referencing future projects or just ideas they have for future projects which we have no way to know ourselves lol

[fathom hill]

Fair honestly

[vestal swan]

DLC plot

Zi does talk about like the home spear and being grown from metal

[fathom hill]

they could be

[frosty gate]

Rough day I see

[vestal swan]

Zi being a shard of a living weapon and technically it's child would be really weird

[gloomy heart]

Just need to find if fearless fox has one

[fathom hill]

We dunno anything ant fearless fox yet no?

[lethal burrow]

there are a lot of games and it hasn't even been three months...

[fathom hill]

only that it may or may not have a fox

[vestal swan]

Fearless Fox is technically also a code name it doesn't even necessarily have to do anything with foxes

[gloomy heart]

Fair fair

[fathom hill]

it is copyrighted though no?

or am i trippin

[gloomy heart]

In that case to be continued lol

[vestal swan]

I think so, or it was like 7 years ago

I have no idea how long those things take to expire if you don't make the game

[lethal burrow]

team Sherry producing a tunic sequel

[fathom hill]

real

[gloomy heart]

Imagine team cherry working on both it and silksong at the same time

[fathom hill]

I think last year it got renewed

[gloomy heart]

Ik thats not the case obviously lol

[vestal swan]

That would explain the terrible dialogue but I don't think they would divide their attention like that

[fathom hill]

or last last year idk

[olive quartz]

its so fucking funny to me that hornet knows mr mushroom, somehow, and is desperate to speak with him

[fathom hill]

Maybe something happened back at hallownest

[vestal swan]

Even if she never tried to contact him in the first game he is a well-known presence

[gloomy heart]

Semi related has anyone here heard anything about the most recent simplified chinese translation?

[vestal swan]

Like if the troupe or the mushroom show up in your kingdom you know you're fucked

[gloomy heart]

Ik the last two were terrible

[vestal swan]

I don't know any Chinese speakers or players that have played the game so no, but hopefully it's a lot better

[gloomy heart]

Word lmao

[olive quartz]

i mean, allegedly, i don't believe anyone else ever mentions mr mushroom, we only have hornet's word that people did mention him

[gloomy heart]

I know we probably will never know but i really do wonder wtf mr mushroom’s origins are

[stray fog]

The first 2 lines are about the events of hollow knight

So the first 2 lines in the silksong dialogue should be about silksong's events

So something steel-related will happen in silksong

Steel dlc

[olive quartz]

seeing mr mushroom readjusts in silksong made me actually clap and cheer

[vestal swan]

Also technically he doesn't have to herald bad things, he herald the end of an age. He could Harold the end of the Stone age for a region, like he could have shown up when PK did to herald the start of the Kingdom

[fathom hill]

yah definitely

[gloomy heart]

Sharpe is a backer char so for sure

[lethal burrow]

Stone and steel refers to the citadel since it's composed of both across the eras

[gloomy heart]

Shells falling to dust might also mean the old kingdoms

[fathom hill]

He only says to witness grand things in general

[frosty gate]

No, Steel is very specific to the Steel people
Metal doesn't equal steel

[olive quartz]

also it creates a kind of hilarious metanarrative because in hollow knight we had no idea about mister mushroom and he was just a random secret, but in silksong they knew people would be desperately searching for mr mushroom to glean any new lore, just like how hornet is pissed he's ignoring her

[vestal swan]

What's the line about The Hive retcon about them making metal it doesn't say steel either does it

[gloomy heart]

The material is known as hivesteel iirc

[vestal swan]

Maybe it says Hive steel

[olive quartz]

is this really a retcon? it's just. new information

[vestal swan]

Yeah so it's very specific

[lethal burrow]

It does say that

[vestal swan]

No it's retcon con because they originally were very closed off and wanted nothing to do with the kingdom

[olive quartz]

it's not like we were told the hive couldn't make steel

[gloomy heart]

Tbf i cant think of anywhere outside of hornet where hivesteel was used outside of the hive

[vestal swan]

Their entire building was just honey hives, even the tables and the scrolls were made out of honey, there was no room for them to be metal workers

[lethal burrow]

which is why vespa knows the knight's creation enough to know the other queen is directly responsible

[olive quartz]

we need not have seen the entire hive

[vestal swan]

The fact that it's called hivesteel is enough to separate it

[olive quartz]

also wait doesn't hive knight fight with a blade. why can't that be hivesteel

[gloomy heart]

Not wanting to interact with the outside world doesnt necessarily make them unaware

I mean there are bees outside of the hive

[fathom hill]

Maybe it is in the fabled z axis and we don't see it

[gloomy heart]

It looks like a needle so i have no doubt that it js

[vestal swan]

As it's presented in the first game she was approached by them for part of the plan and rejected it, probably to be one of the dreamers

"I'll play no part in your attempt to resist nature" or something

[gloomy heart]

Tbf i wouldnt wanna be a dreamer either LMAO

[fathom hill]

Could be a stinger

[vestal swan]

Although in retrospect she might have been able to keep controlling her Hive as a dreamer

[fathom hill]

Why is the stinger outside the body? idk could also be a toothpick

[sinful nimbus]

...also no bee's fighting style matches Hornet's. It could've been Oro or Quirrel or freaking Iselda and it wouldn't have changed anything

[gloomy heart]

Its shaded the same way as hornet’s needle

[vestal swan]

Ah damn it my phone's about to die

[olive quartz]

note the grey 'generic metal' color of hive knight's blade vs the tan color of bee stingers

[gloomy heart]

Hive knight has some similar moves iirc

Also the spike balls he has reminds me of the sting shards in kingdom’s edge

[sinful nimbus]

The spike balls act completely differently

[gloomy heart]

I think hive knight’s blade color matches that of hornet

[lethal burrow]

I don't think it's presented like that exactly

[gloomy heart]

They do but we dont really see spike balls anywhere else iirc (at least not like that)

[stray fog]

Also, hornet's nature is malleable and changes whenever she binds a new crest

[stray fog]

So her fighting style not matching anyone else's isn't concerning

[lethal burrow]

hornet fights like hive knight a noticeable amount

[fathom hill]

I mean, kind of?

[sinful nimbus]

Elaborate

[gloomy heart]

yeah it looks about the same tho this is very minor

[olive quartz]

tbf i believe the knight's nail also uses this Generic Metal color

[stray fog]

There's no hole for a thread

[olive quartz]

hence why i call it Generic Metal

[gloomy heart]

hornet prob just has a needle specifically to better take advantage of her weaver traits

[olive quartz]

needles as a weapon are rather uniquely weaver

[fathom hill]

these dudes have same colors, doesn't mean they use the same steel

[lethal burrow]

Pictures of some moves like the sting traps, although I will grant you the dashing and jumping moves are pretty generic, even if they do also share those

[frosty gate]

Not exactly, Needles are Hornet's thing.
Weavers use "Pins"

[gloomy heart]

Ig fair but context is important here

[sinful nimbus]

Stingshards acted differently in HK

[olive quartz]

no, but it does suggest their nails are made of Generic Metal

[lethal burrow]

that metal looks more blue

[sinful nimbus]

Mfs really out here gaslighting me about Stingshards dawg 😭 🙏

[gloomy heart]

We need a color selector LMAO

[fathom hill]

you may be colorblind

[stray fog]

I think the hive made a needle for Hornet as a mix of a stinger and a pin

[olive quartz]

theyre called stingshards and not spikeballs??

[gloomy heart]

they do but the stingshards in silksong were made differently so that makes sense

[sinful nimbus]

So its a retcon

[lethal burrow]

perhaps you cannot grasp intricate distinction in the way of visual perception

[sinful nimbus]

They retroactively changed details to make it make sense

[olive quartz]

i don't caaaaaaare

[fathom hill]

wait what was the problem with the hive knight having metal?

That it means its not a retcon?

[olive quartz]

they retroactively changed hornet's animations in silksong to look better. who cares

[lethal burrow]

its a retcon that's the hive knight uses metal

[gloomy heart]

I still feel like it’s more of a expansion of information rather than a retcon

[fathom hill]

she washed her dirt ass clothes

[gloomy heart]

I cant think of anything in silksong that contradicts hk

[olive quartz]

ppl were saying the hive had no way to produce the newly introduced 'hivesteel' so it's a retcon

[sinful nimbus]

Hive Knight uses metal but this doesn't at all indicate that the hive was renowned for metalwork this isn't a natural conclusion you could draw hence it feels jarring

[olive quartz]

i noted that the hive knight's weapon is colored like all the other Generic Metals

[fathom hill]

Then why compare the colors of their weapons

[olive quartz]

it's fair to assume that a metal coming from the hive could be called hivesteel

[sinful nimbus]

This isn't a good change because Vespa in Red Memory completely kills the pacing and adds nothing to the lore

[lethal burrow]

Because people like arguing about detail

[fathom hill]

The argument is that the hive knight weapon is made of metal no?

[stray fog]

Im so confused rn

[sinful nimbus]

Also retconning everything you bring back from the first game is completely absurd

[fathom hill]

But if it was retconned there shouldn't be metal in the hive or used by them no?

[lethal burrow]

Vespa in Red Memory improves the pacing and adds to the lore

[olive quartz]

it canonizes daughter of three queens

[fathom hill]

I'm trying to understand

[sinful nimbus]

Like its frankly impressive how badly they botched the lore

[frosty gate]

If things are not the same as in the first game its a retcon
Hornet being nice instead of an ass is a retcon too

[olive quartz]

what the fuck are you talking about

[sinful nimbus]

I don't caaaare about 3 queens its about as interesting as if Oro trained Hornet

[fathom hill]

It does and I love that for her

[gloomy heart]

i disagree with this heavily

it explains hornet’s name

provides cool backstory for hornet learning to fight

and like WL and herrah arent gonna be able to do it

[frosty gate]

Don't try it, it's not worth explaining

[sinful nimbus]

Did TC really just add this to canonize a cut concept lmaoo

[lethal burrow]

yeah, it's so bad You constantly say it over and over again

[olive quartz]

who cares about the pacing of red memory 😭😭

[stray fog]

#sk-lore is not doing good today...

[sinful nimbus]

"Who cares about the pacing of the story" 💀

[lethal burrow]

star moment

[gloomy heart]

Also red memory has solid narrative pacing anyways

[quick geyser]

What happening 😭

[olive quartz]

i was spending half of red memory throwing myself into walls looking for secrets, this is a VIDEO GAME

[lethal burrow]

i do and I'm glad they handled it so well :)

[frosty gate]

Terrible day to be part of the community

[gloomy heart]

Lmao same def my bad

[fathom hill]

not cut me think

[charred nimbus]

I tought the weavers used their claws?

[stray fog]

"black particles = void"
lace child debate
Everyone's arguing (more than usual)

[sinful nimbus]

Red Memory has strong character moments with Herrah then it throws it away to canonize an irrelevant cut concept and then starts yapping exposition at you before giving you an entirely unrelated macguffin lmao

Thanks Team Cherry

[olive quartz]

the macguffin is the reason you are in red memory

[sinful nimbus]

And it has no thematic relevance to what's actually in the Red Memory

[olive quartz]

frankly you could make a much better criticism of act 3's storyline than this, please do better

[frosty gate]

I'll go work and hopefully yall stop fighting Star "The Discussion Wall" Pengu when i comeback

[sinful nimbus]

Is that your contribution to the discussion

[frosty gate]

Could be both

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers in Silksong use needles

[lethal burrow]

It's not a MacGuffin though

[fathom hill]

Fuck star why do you change your pfp every other day

[olive quartz]

Yes. Do better

[gloomy heart]

A central theme of silksong is motherhood so the three queens thing makes a lot of sense with the theming

[sinful nimbus]

It was also presumed they used Needles in Hollow Knight hence it makes more sense for them to have trained Hornet than the Hive

[charred nimbus]

Where the fuck did you see a weaver using anything other then their claw in silksong?

[lethal burrow]

it's an established thing that has an established function. You couldn't replace it with just anything

[sinful nimbus]

Herrah adds commentary on the motherhood aspect of the game, Vespa and White Lady do not

[fathom hill]

Everytime i get confused and i think its another petty person when its just you

[gloomy heart]

they do use needles but in silksong

[olive quartz]

it kind of is to be fair. i need this Thing to go do the Thing and save the world, but thankfully for team cherry they had already set up a magical item that counters the void, so it's not completely out of left field

[lethal burrow]

❌

[charred nimbus]

I'm sorry, how didn't i see a needle?

[sinful nimbus]

Well White Lady tries to but goes back to expositionslop like Silksong loves to do

[gloomy heart]

Not in their hand i’m more talking about first sinner

[olive quartz]

red memory basically spells out that all three of them are her mothers

[lethal burrow]

A MacGuffin is specifically something where it doesn't matter what the actual thing is.

Everbloom is definitely a plot device, but it's not a McGuffin

[sinful nimbus]

OK and

[lethal burrow]

❌

[olive quartz]

so they all tie into motherhood

[quick geyser]

We be calling anything slop now 😭

[gloomy heart]

I think the shit first sinner throws at u are needles anyway

[sinful nimbus]

But that's just an aesthetic

[olive quartz]

so is herrah

[lethal burrow]

❌

[sinful nimbus]

You ccan't just add mothers to the game and expect for it to be interesting lol

[olive quartz]

everything is aesthetic

[fathom hill]

me when the game has overarching themes

[olive quartz]

we draw meaning from the aesthetics, team cherry doesn't reach into your brain and inject the themes

[fathom hill]

and plot that ties with the overarching theme

[charred nimbus]

MY BRO, HORNET LITERALLY HAS DIALOGUE WITH PINMASTER PLINNEY ABOUT HER NEEDLE BEING MADE IN THE HIVE

[limber ferry]

lol what is the argument about now

[lethal burrow]

Crazy

[sinful nimbus]

The interaction with Herrah actually mirrors GMS and Lace's relationship in an organic way which is good

[gloomy heart]

But each had different roles to play

Herrah was the birthmother

Vespa was her trainer

WL helped raise her

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think I don't know that

[lethal burrow]

star is just complaining about the game again

[sinful nimbus]

"Game 2 retconned a detail from Game 1"
"Yeah but Game 2 says this detail is true"

[charred nimbus]

Where in game one it says anything about hornet's weapon?

[fathom hill]

something something game has a lot of retcons that means its bad or something

[frosty gate]

As per usual

[gloomy heart]

Game 1 doesn’t say anything that contradicts this tho so i’m still confused about it being a retcon

[quick geyser]

What detail?

[lethal burrow]

writing is all about execution.

[limber ferry]

i havent noticed any retcons but im probably just stupid

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing is explicitly said but you obviously couldn't reach the conclusion that the ISOLATIONIST tribe made Hornet's weapon because that's absurd

[lethal burrow]

harrah being a Weaver is one I think was executed sort of sloppily

[sinful nimbus]

Its still absurd

[olive quartz]

just to be clear daughter of three queens isn't cut content though, it just wasn't included in hollow knight but leth himself admitted that its canonicity was unclear, back before silksong dropped

[sinful nimbus]

Leth isn't a dev

[charred nimbus]

People been calling Hornet child of three queens even before Silksong was a idea tho

[lethal burrow]

❌

[gloomy heart]

Just bc we didnt have a way to know about something before hand does make its existence a retcon

[fathom hill]

Rn only mentioned are the hive, apparently they weren't totally isolated, and Herrah being a weaver

[sinful nimbus]

Leth's word has about the same amount of weight as the translator who said Hornet was void

[gloomy heart]

Also child of three queens is a fucking rad idea i was so happy to see the hive in red memory

[charred nimbus]

Leth is part of Team cherry tho?

[olive quartz]

YESSSS

[sinful nimbus]

Translators also work for team cherry

[lethal burrow]

Only as much as Christopher is

[gloomy heart]

And tbf the hive was kinda lackluster as an area before

[quick geyser]

So…the second game reveals information that you don’t know in the first game is…bad writing…interesting

[limber ferry]

true i really liked red memory

[charred nimbus]

But they have contact with Team cherry, personally and about ideas in the game

[gloomy heart]

This extra lore does add a lot

[lethal burrow]

Correct

[fathom hill]

leth has said a lot of stuff that may not be accurate though, given how game development usually has them brainstorming and adjusting

[sinful nimbus]

Information that isn't an organic addition to the world and instead goes contrary to established info is bad writing

[olive quartz]

star do you think grimm was a retcon because there was nothing in that cave in the base release, so it was added retroactively

[fathom hill]

tc themselves have said that only canon is inside the games

[sinful nimbus]

No you're shadowboxing against an imaginary argument

[fathom hill]

that anything said outside could not be accurate anymore

[fathom hill]

woke wins 🎉

[sinful nimbus]

But for the record Grimm's lore is bad Team Cherry hasn't written anything good for 7 years

[lethal burrow]

star when they're asked a question (they need to try to spin it way to making it disparaging against the person they're responding to)

[charred nimbus]

Biggest ragebait of the year goes to Starpengu

[sinful nimbus]

Its not disparaging a person to acknowledge they are attacking a strawman

[quick geyser]

Are you here just to hate

[lethal burrow]

questions are strawmen now

[sinful nimbus]

Critiques of your arguments and favorite games aren't personal attacks idk why everyone is trying to be hostile

[fathom hill]

she is

[sinful nimbus]

Does it matter

[lethal burrow]

you... are- that's very funny coming from you.

[fathom hill]

lmao

[quick geyser]

Well are you?

[lethal burrow]

✅

[sinful nimbus]

"Are you here to discuss a topic you are interested in"

[fathom hill]

everyone is hostile except me

[gloomy heart]

Alr well i’m out lol shit is popping off too much

[limber ferry]

truth

[lethal burrow]

you're using quotation marks improperly please learn proper grammar

[charred nimbus]

Good job 🙂

[fathom hill]

Take care

[quick geyser]

It a yes or no question dawg, no need to be a smartass about it 💔

[sinful nimbus]

What?

Do you think quotation marks can only refer to direct quotes because I was paraphrasing someones message to mock them

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't matter and I don't know why you care

[lethal burrow]

you are improperly using quotation marks learn to use proper grammar please

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not but whatever

[lethal burrow]

then you would use ' not " if you're paraphrasing

[charred nimbus]

Alright guys, like, this is not Harvard

[quick geyser]

Sk-lore going crazy these days

[charred nimbus]

Can we please discuss lore in this channel not like we are all Einstein

[lethal burrow]

for example, if I were to paraphrase what you're saying, I would say

'only I am allowed to be rude and provoke people and I'm allowed to get offended, but nobody else is allowed to get offended when I'm super mean to everyone because I'll just hide behind saying I'm talking about the game when I spread hate everywhere'

[fathom hill]

what no dlc does to a mf

I need godhome

[sinful nimbus]

What does this even mean

Bro just saying stuff

It was abundantly clear that I was mocking the argument via paraphrasing and that's all that matters no one cares

[fathom hill]

I have asked about the herald before and what do you think it may be referencing

[lethal burrow]

how about when the Weaver's left pharloom

[charred nimbus]

When people can't suffer in radiant Chef Lugoli they suffer in sk lore channel

[sinful nimbus]

Also trying to beef with me by saying I'm just spreading hate everywhere is crazy funny

Everyone who dislikes what I like is actually super mean and is overtly malicious

[gloomy heart]

popping back in for a sec just to say the moment i have to fight radiant plasmified zango is the moment my computer screen gets a brand new hole in it

[fathom hill]

All of them that I think are referencing something outside silksong but I'm too unknowledgeable to actually connect

As I said, third may be celeste, start of seventh may reference Lace and Hornet after the ending

"it would only be the beggining" act 4 mentioned

[quick geyser]

Wait what

[lethal burrow]

Yay, more silk song I would love more silk song

I for one would be sad if there wasn't more in someway

[quick geyser]

Hell yeah

[fathom hill]

Some said it may reference future projects yet to be known like fearless fox

but that's obviously unclear

[quick geyser]

Mr mushroom is a character that team cherry saw in their fever dream and decided to add him

[olive quartz]

i really don't expect mr mushroom to reveal any lore

yeah he is just a team cherry in-joke

[quick geyser]

(Just like how Toby fox created undertale and deltarune)

[stray fog]

Would they do that to us

[olive quartz]

Yeah

[charred nimbus]

Have you not been to hunter's march bench?

[sinful nimbus]

iirc MM was added to fill the nook that Cornifer occupied in Fungal Wastes once he was gone

Shame they didn't do something similar with the Shakra far fields room which has nothing in it

[fathom hill]

he is kind of but it's consistent that it does make references to tc projects or inspirations

So I'm only guessing it's the same here

[olive quartz]

"make the groal runback all of bilewater"
"ok no thats too much"
"make the groal runback half of bilewater"

[sinful nimbus]

If MM referenced wilbo tweets it would be cinema

[stray fog]

Make the steel dlc steel soul exclusive

[fathom hill]

maybe they will in the future

[charred nimbus]

That would actually cook hard

[fathom hill]

A second mr mushroom oh

[olive quartz]

steel soul exclusive enemies/bosses is one of the few things in skong i think is a legitimately bad idea on the premise

[sinful nimbus]

Dr Dustroach

[lethal burrow]

...excuse me?

[fathom hill]

I'm not familiar with the game, does the "so eager to follow her footsteps" sound as anything there?