sk-lore

[gloomy heart]

They knew what they were doing lmao

[foggy fractal]

we don't have an answer as to why
same way we don't have an answer why the siblings and vgform appears if its etv
we can come up with an explanation that doesn't contradict the game, but we always have to make an assumption for it to be one ending, thats why its ambigious

[midnight zinc]

Define “last minute” because it has an insane number of bosses, new spirits for old enemies, music for void encounters and several fully animated cutscenes. If by last minute you mean several years ago then you might be right.

[frosty gate]

Please let's not go this way again, I hate this discussion so much

[fading shard]

well at the very least we know the radiance is gone

[gloomy heart]

For example an explanation for shade lord in DNM is that it is a vision of the knight’s potential

[foggy fractal]

yeah she's mega dead

[unreal estuary]

Like in the last year or so, around the same time they cut Coral Tower

[gloomy heart]

TRUE FUCK HER

[brave trail]

I love how the ss mr mushroom dialogue references that to understand his cryptidness you have to trust others and work together

[gloomy heart]

rip bozo 🚬

[fading shard]

which makes me curious as to what hallownest is doing rn because we know the infection dies out when she's gone

[fading shard]

so all the infected would go back to normal

[unreal estuary]

Because also remember the Void only appeared for the first time in the final trailer, and the path to Act 3 is so sudden

[fading shard]

and all the revived corpses would go back to being well corpses

[gloomy heart]

Probably still dead but hey there’s no zombies now

[muted lantern]

Most infected are reanimated corpses

So they'd probably drop dead again

[midnight zinc]

There’s an almost zero percent chance that’s what happened. Christopher Larkin said he finished with the soundtrack years ago, that alone is proof.

[frosty gate]

Did it?

[gloomy heart]

Also many infected probably took a lot of damage from said infection mutating them so i imagine they die too lol

[unreal estuary]

When the release date was announced, the background was Void smoke and sound effects, before then it was never in any trailers

[fading shard]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh

There would at the very least be a good chunk of them returning to normal

[gloomy heart]

for example if the infection caused your stomach to swell well beyond reasonable proportions when the infection is gone you’re now left with a torn open stomach lmao

[fading shard]

I fully well realize that a lot would return to being corpses

but a lot of them were simply infected bugs

[midnight zinc]

Not only does this not mean anything, they clearly just wanted it to be a hype moment to add to excitement as it was about to release, but considering how the last dlc they made for HK ended, it’s clear this was the direction they’ve been taking Silksong in since 2018

[gloomy heart]

I would honestly guess like 20%

35% at the very most

[fading shard]

I'd say that is fair

my range was going to be 40%

[gloomy heart]

Most infected were mutated or already dead

Considering a lot of them have dream nail dialogue asking for when they eat it’s also possible the infection was sustaining them and the moment they lose access they die of starvation

[brave trail]

Tuk would be with us in steel soul ❤️‍🩹

[frosty gate]

Not even Reed Richards streches this much

[fading shard]

the ones that were mutated were in specific areas

[frosty gate]

We did see Void before tho, the weird big thing in the Abyss, it was purple tho

[fading shard]

And the infected in a lot towns and especially city of tears

had a good portion of regular infected folk

especially the sentries

[unreal estuary]

I may be stretching a little but if you look at the map of Pharloom Bay from ACMI it looks really similar to the map of the Abyss, and the enemy that was moved from that area to the Abyss. We also know that Crust King Khann was likely supposed to be in Red Coral Gorge, and that was only cut in 2023-2024 which we know from ACMI

So if Act 3 was there before they sure as hell shook it up a ton in the last year

[fading shard]

Also damn xenomaster you 100% silksong and 112% hollow knight too

[gloomy heart]

Aspids absolutely are mutated they spit infection at you

There are guys in greenpath with zits

The entirely of infected crossroads

The traitor mantises

That one shrumal guy that makes the funny sounds

But yes there were prob more unmutated admittedly lol

[fading shard]

respect

[gloomy heart]

Ty it wasnt really that bad it just takes time

[fading shard]

I remember when I first beat pantheon 5 2 years ago

[gloomy heart]

I’m sure people on here have done so much crazier

The hardest thing i’ve ever done in these games is regular pantheon 5

[fading shard]

I know it's not part of the % but still

[fading shard]

same here pantheon 5 made me go insane

Honestly it's the reason why silksong was kinda easy for me

[gloomy heart]

It’s hard to forget if feels like your nerves are on fire haha

[gloomy heart]

I did p5 and that game still kicked my ass

[brave trail]

im like on 90 sumth percent ss rn

[fading shard]

Man am I the only one that thought silksong was easier then hollow knight

[gloomy heart]

Some people do i just personally disagree lol

[mystic fiber]

Atla, weaver of time

[fading shard]

I only struggled with lost lace and groal the great

[fading shard]

SCREW GROAL THE GREAT

[unreal estuary]

Okay so I actually completely misread the entirety of those maps, my apologies I was completely mistaken

[mystic fiber]

this is found in her nest

[frosty gate]

I think it's because of the smoothness of the Controls that Silksong feels easier

[fading shard]

Idc if he was trying to make a uprising or whatever

[gloomy heart]

All due respect idk what i should be looking at lol

[fading shard]

and wanted revenge on the bloody cidatel for bilewater and putrified ducts being ruined by the cidatels waste

[brave trail]

actually the seeker was trying to make an uprising, groal just killed him and ate his soul

[mystic fiber]

she's actually a historian or smth

[fading shard]

But that boss can go suck it

[frosty gate]

Who

[fading shard]

I swear groal wanted to make one too

[gloomy heart]

You gotta admit him using vengeful spirit was pretty cool tho lmao

[mystic fiber]

a cylinder with writings on it

[fading shard]

I don't mind the boss

[mystic fiber]

Atla

[gloomy heart]

Gotcha lol

[fading shard]

I hate the damn runback time and I found the secret bench before even facing him

[frosty gate]

I'm sorry to tell you this

[gloomy heart]

agreed lol

[brave trail]

i was soo amazed and excited at the lore

[fading shard]

But that secret bench still had an insane runback time

[frosty gate]

But that's a music sheet

[gloomy heart]

Truly a certified point at the screen moment

[fading shard]

listenm man hollow knight has always had a bit stupid runback times but come on T_T

[brave trail]

like the cylinders found atop cogwork core

[dull moss]

These are musical notes, like at the Architect’s Melody

[frosty gate]

Yeah that's a music sheet

[brave trail]

i found that bench waaay too late

[gloomy heart]

Gotchu gotchu

They remind me of stuff in vaults too

[frosty gate]

Probaly works like one of those

[fading shard]

Anyhow the Pale king was by far the best higher being

[brave trail]

can you show where in her nest

[fading shard]

that wasn't Unn

Unn and the pale king are the best ones

(people don't give enough respect to unn)

[royal elbow]

I think nobody has beef with Unn.

Everyone respects her.

[frosty gate]

Can't have beef with a pushover

[fading shard]

The radiance-

[fading shard]

Listen the radiance hates everybody

[mystic fiber]

that's also how bugs of pharloom write things

[fading shard]

she just wanted revenge

[royal elbow]

The radiance probably doesn't even think about Unn

[royal elbow]

It's just collateral.

[fading shard]

She wanted to take over everything

[frosty gate]

Who actually respects Unn

[fading shard]

I wouldn't call that collateral

[royal elbow]

I was mostly talking about players.

Nobody really has a negative opinion of her.

[brave trail]

yeah, though both music notes, this cylinder looks more similar to the cogwork core ones than any other writing in Pharloom (cus that uses more symbols that just notes), probably signaling this is a song. (Spyhsong perchance?) my first thoughts

[frosty gate]

You are correct about that, i didn't realize. Still, it very much looks like a music sheet. There aren't enough doodles on it

[brave trail]

the uninfected mosskin

[fading shard]

the mosskin are her creations T_T of course they do

[dull moss]

Oh, that’s a good catch. I didn’t realize all writing was like that. But it’s still probably a music sheet given how similar it is to the Architect ones. Now that I think of it, Weavenest Atla has a workshop. Maybe Atla’s inhabitants made the Architects

[brave trail]

well it is an answer to the question

[fading shard]

true :>

[brave trail]

quick comparison thrown together

[fading shard]

I'm gonna give some credit to unn

[fading shard]

She is definetely a great higher being

[opaque pier]

Idk i kinda like how unn just spits the charm at you it its like "hey knight, this is a little version of me, i want you to have it"

[fading shard]

she might be a pushover but she's still one of the few you can say is a decent person

[brave trail]

last comparison, so way more similar to the cogwork core notes that other writing

[fading shard]

The only other higher being you could call a decent person

would be the Pale king

Like can we agree on that

[dull moss]

I just realized those lights are very similar to the laser robots on Mt. Fay

[fading shard]

Pale king and unn

[opaque pier]

Of course

No bias at all from me btw

[dusk harness]

No.

[fading shard]

what

he has done 1 or at most 2 bad things

[frosty gate]

He's alright at best

[dusk harness]

Unn is the only higher being that’s arguably chill. I’m sorry I can’t call “let me murder billions of my children rq” a decent person

[fading shard]

he's a decent guy

[brave trail]

also great catch, a theory I read today said that the weavers build the whole citadel first, this might be some evidence to that. I personally haven't found many other similarities in, say, architecture.

[fading shard]

Also at best?

[frosty gate]

He's no better than "Alright"

[brave trail]

pale king more decent than white lady?

[fading shard]

.........Have you seen her

[frosty gate]

Colonized the QG

[dusk harness]

what did she do???

[fading shard]

She colonized the queens gardens

[frosty gate]

Pushed Unn further into hiding

[fading shard]

and basically just does it with the pale king

[dusk harness]

AND THE PALE KING KILLED BILLIONS OF HIS CHILDREN

[fading shard]

That's about it

[opaque pier]

Necessary sacrifice

[dusk harness]

it may be only one point but you haven’t to admit it’s a pretty big one

[fading shard]

I'm sorry are we gonna ignore him being a great king

[fading shard]

Yes a big one I can't deny that

one of the worst in hollow knight

[dusk harness]

sees pfp it all makes sense

[dull moss]

12th Architect recognizes a Weaver instantly and calls them first-type children. Imo it’s pretty clear the Weavers built at least some parts of the Citadel

[fading shard]

but it's painted as a trategy

[opaque pier]

Yeah he even built the tramways oooohh look its cool transportation now please ignore all the dead bodies in the abyss

[fading shard]

he literally is stated to have fuilt immense guilt

[brave trail]

its clear they were present, but did they make it?

[frosty gate]

To be fair, I agree with that. PK did it as something that needed to be done, QG is just for aesthetics

[fading shard]

and yes it is said that he did

[terse warren]

To save an entire kingdom yeah, and billions is excessive

[fading shard]

it was millions at most

and it was to save an entire kingdom and eveything around it

[frosty gate]

You do realize it was still bad

[fading shard]

and it wasn't like he wanted to the guy was extremely guilty

his servants say he was guilty and so does the lore tablets

[dusk harness]

Ccmaci’s abyss video implies that no, that big a space to fill with piles and piles of bodies not all too excessive.

[fading shard]

Yeah it makes him not a good person

[terse warren]

What would you have done in that situation

[dusk harness]

Well that’s nice. The murderer has a conscience

[terse warren]

Ah yes ccmaci my favorite in-game source

[fading shard]

love ccmaci

[dusk harness]

Sorry lol

I like his vids they’re neat

[fading shard]

cool youtuber

[frosty gate]

I'm not saying he was wrong, I'm just saying it's fucking bad, even they realize that

[dull moss]

I think they built Cradle and the infrastructure on Mt. Fay. The rest was probably built by the Citadel’s three factions

[brave trail]

yeah both monarchs were full with shame

[fading shard]

I mean the white lady goes out of her way to defend him though

[opaque pier]

Yeah i had to distract myself with cool buzzsaws

[dusk harness]

If we’re talking higher beings that are good people I think Unn is the only one that can really qualify. Bro just made his Greenpath and was happy with that

[brave trail]

Then a pretty big gap in the lore leaves where did the factions come from and why

[fading shard]

the pale king also did a lot of good man

[silver spire]

tbf for the pale king, he was literally in the trolley problem

[fading shard]

He cared a great deal about his subjects

and everyone in general

[opaque pier]

The nightmare heart? I mean dont they just feed on the essence of dead kingdoms? Besides all the controlling brumm with the mask

[fading shard]

people who knew him have only really said mainly good things about him

[silver spire]

you cant just say he's a bad person because there were no good options

[dusk harness]

Also cool sans pfp

[fading shard]

thank you :)

Yours is cool too :D

Anyhow regarding this simple debate in which everyone can have different opinions on

The pale king was a horrible father but a great king and husband

[fading shard]

You have to understand how succesful your kingdom is if every outside faction that isn't in hallownest knows about it

[fading shard]

and it's nothing but filled with legends on how great it is, and with what we see it was

he genuinely made his kingdom a great place to live in

[terse warren]

He couldn't even be a horrible father despite wanting to look at Seal of Binding 🥀

[fading shard]

and genuinely cared for the safety of his people

[dusk bobcat]

He clearly only did the messed up stuff to save hallownest.

[dull moss]

We don’t know how long the Citadel has been a pilgrimage site but I assume the Vault Keepers and Choir were early pilgrims that became priests. The Architects were built by the Weavers

[fading shard]

he's not a good person for what he did

but he's still a decent guy in the end

Up until the radiance decided to come back he was jsut a solid guy

[fading shard]

What can you even say bad about him

the smartest bug in hallownest teh monomon even praised him

and liked him

His wife only speaks great things about him as a partner and king

[dusk harness]

There was a good option that one of his vessels discovered that he apparently didn’t. Like he HAD the Kingsoul. If he’d just gotten one of them a void heart and trained them as a warrior instead of a vessel he could have killed the radiance instead of putting his kingdom, children and himself through incredible suffering. Like did PK seriously not even consider killing Radiance? At all? Did he ever find the Birthplace? Should have been easy without the piles of vessel corpses in the way. PK may have felt like he had no options but his ignorance doesn’t excuse him here

[muted lantern]

I mean he did kill millions of his own children, that very much is a thing he did

[fading shard]

and his people do the same

[fading shard]

I said before the radiance showed up again with the infection

[fading shard]

.

[dusk bobcat]

its not like he was a coloniser either, he offered a bunch of stuff to the bugs in return for their allegiance, and he left the established society's alone. Hes overhated in my opinion.

[brave trail]

Im not very 'fluent' in silksong sources yet, but i believe the holy song sung in the citadel is the song used to keep GMS sleeping, and she was obviously put to sleep by the weavers, then it might logically follow that the weavers set up the threefold melody to keep her asleep eternally

[fading shard]

I mean was he ever implied to be

I mean he made a deal with the mantises, left the hive alone as they wanted to be, was genuinely chill with the mushrooms and moth tribe and his wife decided to take a portion of the mosskins land

[muted lantern]

Aside from being a god king who has a fountain where you're expected to throw all your money to show your allegiance.

[fading shard]

But as for him he left them alone

[dusk harness]

Weavers: spend years and years ensuring GMS remains asleep through the citadel, pilgrimage etc.
Hornet be like: GARAMA (instantly wakes her up throws it all out the window)

[fading shard]

.........What

that was never demanded by him what

that's a optional thing, he nver said you had to do that

[muted lantern]

What's the sign say in front of the fountain again?

[opaque pier]

Wait if the pale king wanted to love his kids that much to the point he made the pure vessel not pure, why didnt he just love hornet and be a good father for her

[dusk harness]

“give all you can to the kingdom” to be

[dusk bobcat]

I feel like the reason that was bad was because he left bunch of semi-sentient beings to rot in the abyss. But I wouldn't call it "murder" because the bugs were unborn when they died. The void emptied them when they were still in the egg.

[dusk bobcat]

some people in the community seem to think he was.

[opaque pier]

Semi abortion

[muted lantern]

Letting them all die in the abyss after they were born I mean

[opaque pier]

We have quasi abortion in both hk and ss, thank you team cherry

[fading shard]

Well that's dumb

[brave trail]

yup lol, basically all of silksong.
*Weaver staying behind to eternally protect the pilgrims coming through shellwood
Hornet: ADIRO CLING GRIP

[fading shard]

he was stated to be a diplomat

The fact his only conflicts were with deepnest kinda indicates that

[silver spire]

i don't think EITHER the pale king nor the white lady knew about that solution, and it wasn't considered because the void is as unpredictable as my mind on a monday morning. the only reason why it even worked was a set of circumstances that the pale king could not have possibly foresaw: TK getting the dream nail, something the pale king didn't know about, the void heart only coming into existence because TK accepted his past which wouldn't have happened if he was "just trained", and the fact that THK was in place to hold the radiance long enough for TK to dream nail him and fight a weakened radiance

[dusk bobcat]

Yeah especially since its heavily implied that most if not all the vessles aren't completely empty.

[brave trail]

what was the semiabortion in ss?

[opaque pier]

The twisted bud quest

[silver spire]

you're basically saying "well why didn't this medieval peasant try this vaccine that didn't exist yet to cure the black plague?"

[dusk harness]

The exact wording was “A true servant gives all for the Kingdom. Let Hallownest’s Pale King relieve you of your burden.”

[silver spire]

which i find to be extremely unconvincing

[fading shard]

why do we get a mask shard for it

[dusk harness]

Which also come to think of it why does filling the fountain summon a soul vessel fragment. Like it’s just conjured there.

[fading shard]

genuinely why does a magical mask shard appear

[dusk harness]

Is it a mask shard?

Or a soul vessel?

[dusk bobcat]

I just realised thats literally a whole quest about getting an abortion. thats so cool lol.

[fading shard]

one of the two

[fading shard]

idk probably a weird reward

[fading shard]

For those who actually did

[fading shard]

There is no other explanation other then that man

[native vine]

it’s a soul fragment. it uses an earlier design for them from when you presumably only needed two for a complete upgrade

[dusk harness]

Rewards us with a Vessel Fragment. The Kingsoul charm generates infinite soul, as long as you’re wearing it your soul is always ticking up. So it can be implied the King’s power is connected to soul and filling the fountain brought out some of it I guess?

[brave trail]

I have another question, do you think Hornet capture was ordered by the citadel (to get silk for whiteward experiments or sumth) or did GMS herself deliberately send them out to acquire more silk/power to finally awake (was she awake enough to give such orders)

[fading shard]

weird reward

Ehh I guess it's nice the people that give money in it get something

[dusk bobcat]

probably the latter since hornet is able to wake gms

[fading shard]

grand mother silk realisticall

[native vine]

i think hornet confirms GMS was controlling them in her entry for a choir member?

[fading shard]

as the people in question were haunted

you gotta understand they were haunted in question

[sharp valley]

This is crazy good and fairly logical, but is lowkey too good to for TC unless they are masters of 300 iq foreshadowing

[dusk harness]

I wonder if Hallownest’s citizens could put together their own soul vessels once upon a time. And if the Pale King’s power always generates soul then someone having their vessel filled could be a sign of status or connection to the King

[fading shard]

would make sense

yk the pale king was a good king

Genuinely good king but god the worst dad in hollow knight

[native vine]

envoy

[fading shard]

Because of the millions of dead kids

[sharp valley]

Its talking about the greyroot npc from silksong the one that curses you with a parasite

[dusk bobcat]

oh my god that actually makes sense

[silver spire]

? i mean his biggest downfall was being too good of a dad that THK developed feelings

[fading shard]

I am referring to the millions of dead in the abyss

[muted lantern]

I'm not arguing pk was an unforgivable monster, but I do feel people overcorrect to act like he was this this flawless leader before the radiance, he very much was a king, with all the baggage that comes with monarchy

[dusk harness]

Singular will. So I guess GMS just subconsciously really wanted to meet her granddaughter

[fading shard]

that wer his kids

[fading shard]

Being good to ONE kid does not make you a good dad

the white lady was also a horrible mother

[fading shard]

Both of them are horrible parents it's not just the pale king

[brave trail]

thats how good mother insticts are /j

[dusk bobcat]

to be fair about the monarchy thing, unlike rulers in real life he actually was more intelligent and poweful than common bugs.

[fading shard]

She wanted her silk remember T_T

[muted lantern]

Playing favorites to your kid you're going to sacrifice doesn't counteract the 3 million newborns that died horribly in the abyss

[dusk harness]

It’s actually wild that the Pale King never once inquired Seer’s tribe about their dream magic. Like there was a whole world of possibility he never saw because he never thought to ask

[muted lantern]

Doesn't really fix the issue that he doesn't really represent what the people want, just what he believes the people need.

[opaque pier]

"Horribly" they probably didnt feel a thing and i also left the company theres thay one guy in the lighthouse

[brave trail]

is it ever stated that she needed silk to wake up? If not, is it ever stated what she needs to wake up?

[fading shard]

I guess he was too focused on inveting a crap ton of inventions

[fading shard]

It was stated that she wanted hornets power

[fading shard]

grand mother silk was already slowly waking up

[opaque pier]

I thought he did since the whole white palace is in the dream realm

[fading shard]

It was stated that the caccoon keeping her asleep was weaking

[silver spire]

it's also possible that the Moth tribe would have refused due to, yk, them being made by the Radiance. And again, how would have the void heart come into existence?

[dusk bobcat]

exept the people all liked him because he gave them higher thought. Maybe they didnt ask for that but they still liked it.

[muted lantern]

Considering their shades still can't rest thousands of years later and we see a lot of shattered masks littering the floor they very much died in agony, there's no evidence they don't feel pain, and they were never empty

[brave trail]

Do you know where?

[fading shard]

Honestly I don't remember if it was by the care taker, hornet herself, the weaver lore tablets of the relics regarding the weavers

[opaque pier]

Yeah now that i think about it the pale king shouldve thrown a tom of everblooms in the abyss to finish the job and stop their suffering

[muted lantern]

He still made choices regarding the fate of the entire kingdom in secret without the people having any say

[fading shard]

or the conductors

[frosty gate]

The Cocoon was an extra measure, the real trap was the song

[fading shard]

buto ne of them said as much

[fading shard]

yup

[brave trail]

yeah ofc, and the haunting made them play less or die out

[muted lantern]

I think we just shouldn't discount the fact that he left millions of kids to die for his greater good

[dusk bobcat]

thats true, but he didnt do it out of malice, more out of instinct.

[frosty gate]

No, they haunting was a result of the absence of Song

[silk dirge]

he had no other choice

[frosty gate]

(Conductors fucked up)

[silver spire]

Pale king was in the trolley problem, and while we shouldn't excuse it, it doesn't make him a bad person because of it :/

[silk dirge]

considering what he knew pale king made the right choice

[fading shard]

He was a great king

[opaque pier]

No big deal id they had a complaint they shouldve just said smth

[fading shard]

And it was stated as much

[silk dirge]

there was nothing else he couldve done

[opaque pier]

Oh right no voice to cry suffering

[dusk bobcat]

my perspective is he did horrible things, but he isnt a horrible person inherently

[brave trail]

Wasn't the haunting a result of the expirement in whiteward, leading to almost everyone being born with silk in their shells, which made it easier for GMS to get a hold on

[dusk bobcat]

"no cost too great"

[dusk harness]

While we’re out here debating the morality of higher beings do we know how Rain and Thunder died? Like they let the godseekers live under them they couldn’t have been too bad right

[muted lantern]

Being a great king doesn't negate the inherent flaws of monarchy

[fading shard]

1. off everyone that joined him did so out of their own free will and we know thy had a will to choose because of how many didn't

2. he literally was praised to be a great king

[brave trail]

The godseekers were betrayed by them right?

[fading shard]

3. he did everything in his power to make his kingdom great to live in

[dusk harness]

I dunno. In the Land of Storms we see their corpses in the background with the seekers fearful and running away. Seemed like they were attacked or killed by something else instead.

[fading shard]

Every faction in hollow kight is a monarchy

[arctic patrol]

Hmm would be really funny if it happened twice

[subtle plaza]

The bugs didnt have their reform yet

[fading shard]

the mosskin, mantis tribe, hive, pharloom, verdania, skarrs, hallownest, moth tribe

[fading shard]

ALL OF THEM were either monarchys or matriarchys

Or were ruled by multiple rulers

So idk why we're giving crap on the pale king for that

[fading shard]

Everyone loved him though, and it was stated he cared deeply about his people and their needs

[arctic patrol]

Isn't a monarchy tehnically not as bad if the ruler is immortal and of good intentions

[fading shard]

he made life in his kingdom great

[dusk harness]

Insane theory rq: Steel Soul Zi, when Hornet refuses her quest says “You would disobey the masters? You know the consequences. Even for you higher… especially you higher… Compression. We have suffered it. We would not wish it on another.” The Steel Soul automatons’s masters are the only ones apart from the Void apparently capable of bringing higher beings down, either by killing or “compressing” them. And it doesn’t look like the Void killed Rain and Thunder. They actually almost look like statues in the background. Almost as if their power was compressed into stone and they were immobilized.

[fading shard]

He was classified as a GREAT king and a great ruler

to bash on him as a king is the one thing you can't

[brave trail]

Yeah, this can either be interpreted as dying or abandoning on purpose

[frosty gate]

That just made things easier, but it wasn't the main reason

[arctic patrol]

Usually the problem arises when an idiot comes to the throne vegan the old king died but that's not an issue if you're a higher being

[silver spire]

hallownest in its prime was like the start of every Chinese dynasty, except the ruler never g ot corrupted

[muted lantern]

The issue with monarchy is the people don't really get much say in the decisions the kingdom makes

[fading shard]

then why are you specifically talking about the pale king

and not every other kingdom a mentioned in hollow knight and silksong

NOT A SINGLE KINGDOM wasn't a monarchy or matriarchy

[muted lantern]

All I said was he was a monarch with all the baggage that came with being one, and we shouldn't put him on a pedastal

[subtle plaza]

Ok yes but that was an issue generally in all of hk why are you giving the pale king flak for this. Yes, monarchy was bad, but pale king compared to all the other rulers seemed to be good

[muted lantern]

He tried his best to do good by his kingdom, but he was not perfect

[silver spire]

why would that be a bad thing in the context of hallownest

[fading shard]

My guy if the game says he was a great king and all mentions of him as a ruler were positive and we see his kingdom having great things going on I am going to put him on a pedastal as a ruler

[dusk harness]

Imagine there’s a kingdom out there that’s like a republic with no higher beings in it they’re so incredibly normal and they watch all this stuff going down in Hallownest and Pharloom and just being like “wow glad we don’t have any of that going on anyway yall want to vote to build another homeless shelter and solve hunger in the kingdom”

[silver spire]

especially since he was PRAISED FOR THE DECISIONS HE MADE

[muted lantern]

The original message I said is just that he is a monarch with all the baggage of being a monarch

[fading shard]

The pale king literally added free health care to his kingdom

[silver spire]

FFS there were people who willingly LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES FOR HIS CAUSE (lurien)

and another one that legit made a whole poem just glazing him

[fading shard]

and was trying to care for his subjects problems

[arctic patrol]

Could've been Pharloom if GMS didn't arrive mind you

[dusk harness]

I just meant that Hallownest fell.

[muted lantern]

Most monarchs are praised lol, King George was praised

[fading shard]

fair enough

[fading shard]

Monomon

[subtle plaza]

Why are you comparing real life to the kingdom of a bug game 😭

[brave trail]

Alright then a more logical timeline should be: Citadel sings song, GMS sleeps -> Citadel becomes obsessed by greed or some other factor (hinted at by the discarding of Pious Isamor)/Citadel Whiteward -> Citadel stops lulling GMS -> Haunting

[muted lantern]

It's kinda comes with the whole uncritcisable ruler with divine right to rule thing

[fading shard]

and she was classified as one of the best minds in hollow knight

[fading shard]

He created his own kingdom that had no president or previous rulers

[muted lantern]

Making the point that being praised is kinda always a thing when you are a king, not actually a representation of good moral character

[frosty gate]

Pretty much

[fading shard]

Look at all his actions as king

[arctic patrol]

Or so he thought

[fading shard]

all of them are POSITIVE

[fading shard]

he left mantis tribe, hive, mushroom people alone

[subtle plaza]

I... guess? But there is no evidence in game that suggests the subjects in his kingdom secretely despises him or smth

[fading shard]

and the moth tribe joined out of their own WANTS

[brave trail]

Alright im hopping off, was fun discussing with yall, cya

[arctic patrol]

Left right you'll have sweet dreams tonight

[fading shard]

they abandoned the radiance

[silk dirge]

pharloom under president sherma

[fading shard]

cya sleep well

[fading shard]

Okay this whole point is just stupid, you're going against everything the game was telling us about the pale king because "monarchy bad"

[dusk harness]

It’s cool that Monomon as the educated one of the dreamers never let loyalty blind her. She always saw things clearly and said things as they were. When the Pale King was in charge, she wrote a poem thanking him for what his power has done to the bug’s minds and all the great contributions he made to the world. When he came up with the dreamer plan she agreed and even added her own failsafe in sending Quirrel away with her mask. But so many years later when she can see the infection is reigning and the plan has failed, if you dreamnail her you find that she was the only one who was in favor of breaking them. She knew it had to be done.

[fading shard]

you are making assumptions that counter act actual evidence we have

[silk dirge]

monarchy bad applies to real life not fictional words

[muted lantern]

Again, all I said was the pk had the baggage of being a monarch, I never said he's evil

[silk dirge]

there are a lot of games with positively portrayed monarchies

[arctic patrol]

Im still so confused as to why you would even do this the asshole is more powerful and you could've lived an even more prosperous life under both

[subtle plaza]

Overall that explanation feels more complex than just saying he's a good leader, and if you use occam's razor you would probably be led to believe the latter.

[silk dirge]

i mean literally silksong has a few

verdania and the skarr are monarchies

[subtle plaza]

Ok? Thats kind of a non-point?

[silk dirge]

and they are both portrayed positively

[dusk harness]

At least it had to be done to save Hallownest anyway

[fading shard]

Are you talking about the moths leaving the radianc?

[subtle plaza]

"Pale king was a monarch" wow.

[arctic patrol]

Yeah

[fading shard]

The thing I think that goes against the thing phantasmal states is that all sources about the pale king as a king were praised and shown positively

in all corners and aspects

Not talking about you unknown

just phantasmals whole monarch thing

[fading shard]

people can make assumptions but you can't make ones that go against what we know

[frosty gate]

Just Soul Sanctum, but that was during Infection times

[fading shard]

how is soul sanctum even an example

[arctic patrol]

Poor soul master man was onto nothing

[fading shard]

They were bugs that wanted to fight off the radiance by taking away others souls and commiting mass murder to grow more powerful

[silk dirge]

yeah i think the pale king was right to hate on soul sanctum

[frosty gate]

It's not, I'm just saying they did hate PK

[fading shard]

and the pale king was very much so against the soul tyrants plan of sacrificing various bugs

[frosty gate]

We actually don't know that, he didn't stop them, most likely didn't notice

[silk dirge]

the thing with the soul tyrants plan is the bugs could actually have felt pain

[muted lantern]

All I was arguing is he's not a perfect leader before the radiance

[fading shard]

it was stated by the soul tyrant that he did oppose everything he did

[silk dirge]

where the vessels to his knowledge wouldnt(they probably would but he couldnt know that)

[dusk harness]

This comment just made me realize that maybe when we collect 2400 essence and the Seer fades into essence, and she says “radiance… I remember you…” and basically says she’s sorry for how her people cast her aside, that might have actually been the Radiance recognizing the seer and giving thanks. At that point the seer must have been ancient. Their tribe have all died. The Seer is the only one who lived to return to the Radiance, and they were “saved” according to what their culture might have taught

[fading shard]

after you beat soul tyrant

[subtle plaza]

Yeah no shit nobody is a perfect leader

[fading shard]

The dialogue after you beat soul tyrant has him saying

[muted lantern]

It was originally responding to people treating him like one

[fading shard]

But why "the king was against everything I did"

[muted lantern]

The origin of this whole debate

[subtle plaza]

Oh alright then, i wasnt here in the start of this debate so idk

[fading shard]

People were saying he was a great king

[fading shard]

We were just saying he was a great king

nothing about being perfect T_T

[fading shard]

and AGAIN phantasmal we have no examples of anything he did poorly as a ruler

[subtle plaza]

Oh. In that case it's just a misundersting then, lol

[fading shard]

Hell even as a diplomat he was good

his beef was only with deepnest

[arctic patrol]

I kinda feel bad for Radiance man even after basically losing her mind out of desperation she still honours the one person who allowed her to live, for dawn to finally break

[fading shard]

come on the radiance?

really

[dusk harness]

It makes so much sense to me though that every time PK is referenced by Hornet in Silksong it’s in disrespect. Because she doesn’t have the whole story. And also because he was quite a horrible father to her.

[fading shard]

Like listen I get she bot abandoned but she literally went after every single bug she could

[frosty gate]

I think that Dialogue is most likely saying that Soul Master was trying to propose those plans and PK kept saying no. I'm telling you, the Soul Sanctum was absolutely not stopped by Pk

[livid ice]

Its just because zote looks like a sloppy version of the knight and grey root looks like a sloppy version of the white lady

[muted lantern]

Again, since nobody seems to read the original message at the start of all this, all I was arguing is the fandom in general seems to overcorrect from the pale king is evil take to pale king is a perfect ruler, I never was referring to you or your arguments individually

[dusk harness]

She likely never even met him face to face or he probably would have shown up in the red memory

[frosty gate]

PK seems very unconfrontational, funny enough.

[subtle plaza]

I kind of feel like you're shifting the goalpost a little

[arctic patrol]

I mean considering what she says to White Lady I think she does know and she's still pissed off at him (probably because he ran off like a coward at the end to die at the hands of his own shame)

[frosty gate]

She probably just doesn't like him and doesn't remember him fondly. We only get good memories

[fading shard]

Pale king:no you can't take away the souls of other bugs get the hell out

Soul master: what if I do it anyway

[muted lantern]

That's literally what I said when the debate started, and everyone interpreted it as me calling pk evil, when the original message explicitly said he wasn't unforgivable at all

[fading shard]

people have said she probably has distain over the void situation specifically

[dusk harness]

I dunno about that we get one of the weavers pressuring her to prove she’s “more weaver than Wyrm” and her failing over and over again at mastering her silk as her people fade away around her

[fading shard]

But again why would she like the white lady

but not the pale king

The white lady was the number one pale king defender in history

[frosty gate]

Oh yeah, maybe just Core memories then, that just means she didn't give a shit about PK

[dusk harness]

White Lady says “how despicable the cost of our plan must seem to you” and she actually goes “no actually the more I’ve lived the more I completely understand why you would kill all those vessels just for the hope of a better world”

[graceful grail]

Does anyone know if the string players for silk song are part of any major orchestra?

[arctic patrol]

I think she's probably just mad the guy fucked off to his palace and died than anything then

[frosty gate]

It's stated in the Wingsmould journal. I think she's annoyed because she saw that Void can't be controlled and that PK was fucking dumb

[arctic patrol]

Plan fails once
Kills himself

Bravo

[dusk harness]

Sounds the most sensical of anything tbh

[frosty gate]

Was she? I don't remember saying much about him

[fading shard]

she was

Mainly to the knight

[frosty gate]

It was twice actually

[fading shard]

She only talks about how "great he is"

[dusk harness]

Bro’s never heard of third time’s the charm

[arctic patrol]

Like White Lady has a reason to basically escape the public eye and that's because of her shit fungus pregnancy abilities, Pale King just kinda fucks off because he's ashamed everything went to shit and dies

[dusk harness]

It is kind of messed up that it’s implied when the Black Egg failed he just sealed himself off in his palace as Hallownest was overtaken

[fading shard]

well....

[frosty gate]

I guess Hornet just understood Wl is allowed to love him as much as Hornet is allowed to hate him

[arctic patrol]

He died all alone in his mental projection of shame and guilt, I can't really blame him but not exactly the best decision

[fading shard]

his servants in the white palace basically just confirm he was filled with guilt and was absolutely depressed

[silk dirge]

honestly i think it wouldve made a cool arc for hornet to stop hating the pale king throughout the game ending off with a section of red memory with him or smth like that

[frosty gate]

He even made servants to cheer him up lmao

[fading shard]

like genuinely half of their dream nail dialogue is just talking about him feeling bad and guilty

[frosty gate]

I think it's ok she hates him

[dusk harness]

Which is selfish right? Like we see from Hornet and the Vessels that the pale lineage were immune to the infection. If there was anyone who could do anything, IT WAS HIM.

[silk dirge]

it makes sense from her perspective

[fading shard]

it was higher beings in general

[silk dirge]

but pale king couldnt spend a lot of time with her

[fading shard]

Higher beings don't seem to be affected by the infection to have them take over them

[silk dirge]

bc his kingdom was in collapse

[fading shard]

selfish that he felt extremely guilty and awful?

[frosty gate]

There's also a chance the guy just weakened

[arctic patrol]

Pale King after he tries to fight half dead Radiance 1v1

[fading shard]

also second he couldn't do shit

the only way the radiance could be reached would have been with the dream nail

And the only reason she even was able to get accesed to by dream nail

was because of the hollow knight having her in his head basically

[fading shard]

he had neither of those options

so I don't know what ou want him to have done

[arctic patrol]

I mean even if he could he had no chance of winning lmao

[fading shard]

he was said to be one of the strongest higher beings though

like 2 or 3 third strongest in power alone last I remember

so if any higher being was to fight her it would be him

[arctic patrol]

She's the Godess of light aka the most important thing to a higher being she would've mauled his ass

The god of gods for a reason

[fading shard]

the shade lord was called the gods of gods

the radiance did not have that title

You got mixed up with the radiance and shade lord

[dusk harness]

Pale King and White Lady texting be like
“Can I come over”
“No, I’m at work.”
“What are you doing then sweetheart”
“Convincing Monomon on the whole dreamer thing. I hate this canyon seriously.”
“Aw pookie my house isn’t far come see me”
“I can’t. I have a banquet with the Great Knights tonight. The infection is getting worse in your area, are you okay?”
“Just sad you can’t come over”
“I’ll come to see you soon, my love.”
And yeah the white lady types without punctuation she uses speech to text she can’t exactly type.

[arctic patrol]

She clearly should've since she's on the top of Hallownests gauntlent lmao

[frosty gate]

PK: Forget it, I'm a loser
Mr Mushroom probably: Poor Wyrm, he really is a loser

[arctic patrol]

The Godseeker's thought she was the God of Gods and they were wrong

She was actually second!

[dusk harness]

I headcanon if the Pale King could text he would always use perfect grammar and punctuation and capitalization. He would never abbreviate anythng.

[fading shard]

Canonical white lady

seriously though what's with white ladies main thing just being her simping for the pale king

you might think Im' overexaggarating but I'm not

[fading shard]

if you look at her dialogue she is to a concerning extent obsessed with him

[dusk harness]

A part of me wonders if the obsessiveness started after his death or if she always fawned over him

[fading shard]

Probably since the start

[lean temple]

WL: loves her husband
HK fans: She must be mentally ill
/joke

[fading shard]

To be fair he was described to be a good partner

[fading shard]

Like I know it's a joke but from what we know he genuinely was a good husband

[arctic patrol]

Something makes me really emotional about White Lady seeing her in Queen's Gardens feels like seeing an old woman with dementia who has lost her husband in the war and can't recognize half the people she once knew

[arctic patrol]

Okay let's all be serious for a second he was clearly the bottom in the relationship

[fading shard]

I mean she's the thirsty one so obviously

seriously she is the thirstiest character in hollow knight

and silksong I don't even say that as a joke or something

[dusk harness]

I actually love the idea that the White Lady is still entirely sane by the time we meet her in game. She’s swooning over her dead husband to the knight while somehow completely dodging the Godseeker’s attempts to incorporate her in the pantheons and keeping tabs on every force in the kingdom, including the nightmare heart when the Grimm troupe arrives

[arctic patrol]

She literally has to trap herself so she doesn't fuck people obviously she is

[dusk harness]

Between Kratt and White Lady

[arctic patrol]

White Lady is like the Higher Being of sex man

[fading shard]

It was said she specifically wants the pale king though

not any random bug

[lean temple]

Well yeah. And she even seems to realise she's in a memory in SS

[fading shard]

specifically SPECIFICALLY that pale king body

[fading shard]

she's a higher being to be fair

even nkg seems to know this crap in godhome

every higher being seems to know this

[lean temple]

Both Pale Beings. There's pale chemistry between them ig.

[arctic patrol]

I imagine she saw the wyrm corpse and asked Pale King if he could ever return back to that form because it sounds more fun

More to work with

[fading shard]

Pale king: sweetie why

[frosty gate]

White Lady wanted that BPC

[flat pollen]

How powerful is she anyway

[fading shard]

AYO?????????

[arctic patrol]

She has the power of male pregnancy so top of the verse

[lean temple]

Physically we don't know, but psychically she's pretty solid

[fading shard]

What male pregnancy what

[arctic patrol]

"Well I can instantly kill people"
"Don't care you're pregnant now"

[fading shard]

Since when???????

she was the one that laid the eggs not the pale king

[arctic patrol]

Let's not kid ourselves here

[dusk harness]

I’m tapping out of this conversation nope not being here anymore bye

[flat pollen]

I think most higher beings show their power through influence, not physical stats though right?

[fading shard]

Ehhhhhhh

[fading shard]

Fair enough

[lean temple]

Sorta yeah ig. Except ig for Wyrms whose size alone would make them practically invincible

[fading shard]

The pale king, white lady and nightmare heart are powerful in powerscaling terms aswell

same goes for grand mother silk

[flat pollen]

Well you can be powerful just not physically

[arctic patrol]

Grand Mother Silk has to be extremely powerful to survive the void as long as she did

[fading shard]

I was talking physically

and powerscaling talks about strength and yk your power to fight anda ll that

[lean temple]

She was weakened by Hornet first as well

[fading shard]

she was said to have basically created

a silk caccoon we even go inside it

[arctic patrol]

Yeah I know, still incredible power

[flat pollen]

You would expect the pale wyrm to rival the shade lord but bardoon outright confirms the knight has evolved past the wyrm once voidheart is acquired

[fading shard]

The reason she survived for that long was because she basically created a shield

[fading shard]

It is clear to see that by just how powerful the knight is

[arctic patrol]

The fact that she can craft something that can survive the void for such a long time is impressive, especially since her daughter was against ts

[arctic patrol]

Limb cut off, already extremely weak before they even fight, further weakend during fight and she still managed allat

[lean temple]

Well yes but she was going to fail eventually. It's draining her

[dusk harness]

There are the higher beings and then there are the things capable of wrecking the higher beings. So far the Void and the Steel Soul automaton’s masters are the only ones who fit the second tier

[fading shard]

she has the advantage of her abilities being able to basically create a super omega shield

[lean temple]

Basically yeah

[flat pollen]

We know that pale king and other pale beings are basically the embodiment of soul which has some duality with the shade lord which is void incarnate

[fading shard]

Since when could the steel soul automatons do so

[lean temple]

Not them, the Masters

[flat pollen]

I think pale beings also deserve their own tier

[lean temple]

I can go fetch the quote

[fading shard]

the pale beings do seem to be by far on a far greater tier then regular higher beings

the only one that is shown to be more powerful then a pale higher being was the radiance

[dusk harness]

When Hornet refuses Steel Soul Zi’s quest she says this.

[lean temple]

Compression

[fading shard]

Who said compression again

[dusk harness]

The steel soul automaton’s master have something or can do something that weakens or kills higher beings. And it sounds terrifying

[arctic patrol]

Steel City dlc bout to have us fried man

[fading shard]

hornet?

[dusk harness]

Zi

[lean temple]

I wouldn't say more powerful, just that they can't fight head on

[flat pollen]

Well hornet herself is only half higher being

[lean temple]

They're called Steelhearts btw

[fading shard]

only a demi god

[flat pollen]

Grand Mother Silk is probably FAR more powerful that hornet which is why Hornet only really weakens her before binding herself to her power

[fading shard]

the hell does zi mean then by they suffered through compression

[lean temple]

Even then the power overwhelms her

[lean temple]

Zi was compressed

[fading shard]

what

[flat pollen]

Because hornet isnt built for that level of divine power id assume

[fading shard]

What the hell do you mean by being compressed

[lean temple]

We don't know. It's something the Masters can do which can harm even higher beings

[muted lantern]

compression is something zi mentions, we don't know exactly what it is, but from how they describe it it's extremely bad

[dusk harness]

Of all the horrible ends in the Hollow Knight universe I feel like once Compression is explained to us it’ll be absolutely horrific.

[muted lantern]

and a punishment employed by the masters

[arctic patrol]

Grand Mother Silk is probably still bound by the runes and other stuff the weavers had used on her as well, if we ever fight her in her prime Im guessing it's gonna be something akin to Radiance where it's literally impossible without attunement if it's in Godhome

[muted lantern]

presumably compression is how things like zi are made

[dusk harness]

Like wow I don’t even know what it is and the thought of it makes my stomach churn with fear

[lean temple]

My thought too

[flat pollen]

The knight would get absolutely VAPORIZED by radiance if it wasnt for voidheart

[muted lantern]

the steel things could be several souls compressed into one

[fading shard]

So how would compression on another work

[keen linden]

https://tenor.com/view/minions-minion-minion-memes-crushed-hydraulic-press-gif-17069700823643705715

[fading shard]

like hornet

[muted lantern]

we don't know, its only mentioned once and not elaborated on

[lean temple]

When I read "even you higher.. compression" I was pretty terrified. WHAT are the Masters??

[arctic patrol]

Radiance's singular feather vs no voidheart knight sounds more fair 💔

[fading shard]

Would it just be that hornet would get brainwashed and turned into a automaton

[dusk harness]

“Especially you higher” what😭😭

[lean temple]

Exactly

[muted lantern]

possible, or it could be multiple beings being compressed into one, we don't really know

we just know its very bad and zi is traumatized by it

[lean temple]

My theory is that their thoughts and emotions and whole identity are compressed, I.e suppressed and destroyed, and they are bound inside the steel armor

[fading shard]

brainwashing has to be a part of it right

[dusk harness]

Like. In this universe the higher beings are so universally feared that them being talked about like this bleghhhhh don’t like it

[fading shard]

There's no way it isn't if it makes an enemy turned into a loyal automaton

[lean temple]

Zi says "bound by ore" which I think implies her armor

[dusk harness]

The automatons aren’t loyal though. They live in fear of punishment. Of suffering.

Theirs is an allegiance in chains

[arctic patrol]

Steel City sounds like a giant death trap man

[fading shard]

it could be that the higher beings that the masters faced weren't something as powerful as the radiance or the pale king

[lean temple]

The Steelhearts definitely are. "Obedience is essential" and all that

[dusk harness]

Leaving but thank you all for talking to me

[lean temple]

Zi still says it despite knowing Hornet is daughter of a Pale Being. The Masters don't care 😭

[fading shard]

of course man it was a pleasure

[flat pollen]

So is the godhome void entity still the goat of both games?

[fading shard]

does she know hornet is a higher being

[lean temple]

Yes

[dusk harness]

Yes.

[fading shard]

and does she know she is a pale being

[muted lantern]

also binding definitely seems to alter hornet as a person, in some manner. if hornet refuses to bind with eva she says it's because she fears what it would do to her own identity to subsume something so strange and powerful. I think this definitely has implications on what would happen to hornet in the weaver queen ending

[fading shard]

well a demi god if you will

[lean temple]

She literally says so

[dusk harness]

Refers to her as Pale It

[arctic patrol]

"Especially YOU higher"

[lean temple]

Compression

[fading shard]

okay fair enough

[flat pollen]

Im guessing hornet is the only divine weaver?

[fading shard]

But come on the Pale king and Radiance are power houses

[dusk harness]

Zi calls Hornet both “Pale It” and “Bug It.” So Zi can recognize both her Pale half and her Weaver half

[arctic patrol]

I mean honestly the Weavers are already pretty divine of their own right even if they don't claim the title of such

[muted lantern]

the masters power are compared to the knight with the void heart, which is capable of eating the radiance alive

[lean temple]

That's what we're saying. The mere possibility that the Masters don't care is scary

[fading shard]

they are genuinely top 5 strongest characters in hollow knight universe

[dusk harness]

In fact, Sula SUMMONED THE VOID IN THE HOPES THAT IT WOULD SAVE HIM FROM HIS MASTERS

[flat pollen]

I think given sentience by a higher being is different from being the direct offspring of a higher being

[fading shard]

the masters power being compared to the knight with the void heart is not something I know of

[silver spire]

source?

[lean temple]

The did claim the title, falsely. Made themselves to be gods when in reality they were evolved from simple bugs.

[lean temple]

"More complete... like the masters" -Jinn

[fading shard]

the weavers aren't divine though

[muted lantern]

steel soul jin dialogue after you get the void heart i believe, iirc she compares them directly to the masters.

[fading shard]

they are pharlids that got evolved into weavers

[arctic patrol]

I mean true but the average higher being species doesn't exactly come with 500 abilities all of which would evaporate the normal bug

[fading shard]

oh wtf

[muted lantern]

yeah no the masters are no joke

[dusk harness]

BRO I’M SO SCARED OF THE MASTERS

[fading shard]

you're telling me that they would basically clown on the pale king and all of hallownest

[arctic patrol]

Who are these masters and why don't they do shit

[flat pollen]

To be fair, there's the shamans

[fading shard]

like THE PALE KING

would get wrecked so hard he'd look like a tick tick

Is that what we're implying here

[dusk harness]

RIGHT NOW AS WE TALK ABOUT THEM I CAN FEEL MY BODY TIGHTENING AND MY STOMACH CHURNING LIKE A VIDEO GAME GROUP LF PEOPLE SHOULD NKT BE SO INTIMIDATING

[lean temple]

"This It... A rare It. Has not seen many, so vulnerable, but triumphant. Makes Jinn feel a thing... surprise?
Jinn misjudged... The It is not inferior. Perhaps... different? Different to Jinn. More complete? Different... like masters?"

[arctic patrol]

I mean yeah but shamans need time and outside power sources the Weavers don't need that unless they plan to enslave their second higher being

[flat pollen]

The weavers definitely had to train their skills before using em effectively

[silver spire]

complete dialogue: " Void Heart This It... A rare It. Has not seen many, so vulnerable, but triumphant. Makes Jinn feel a thing... surprise?
Jinn misjudged... The It is not inferior. Perhaps... different? Different to Jinn. More complete? Different... like masters?"

does this necessarily mean that the masters are as strong as it? or does it just imply that they are higher beings

[lean temple]

People you absolutely don't want to mess with

[muted lantern]

the message got buried but i wanted to talk about the implications of the weaver queen ending, binding another (living?) being seems to directly alter hornets identity, if she refuses to bind with eva she says its because she fears what it would do to her identity to subsume someone with a mind so strange and powerful, so if hornet binds gms it probably would alter who she is on a fundamental level, adding to the no so good implications of weaver queen, of her just becoming as bad as silk.

[silver spire]

personally, i interpret different as having higher being status

[lean temple]

From Zi's dialogue it seems they are even higher than higher beings

[flat pollen]

Ive heard enough, send the shade lord after them

[fading shard]

The pale king mightg not have 500 abilities but I'd say he and the radiance would fit the bill on what you're saying

[arctic patrol]

True but a wild weaver could probably just rip your shit in half purely because silk is made of soul

[fading shard]

Both of them are genuinely overpowered

[stone herald]

A wild weaver could probably rip your shit in half because it's a big ass spider

[arctic patrol]

That too but they ain't bigger than everyone

[lean temple]

Yep. Binding someone super powerful can overwhelm Hornet. In normal cases the binded get assimilated into Hornet's being ig.

[dusk harness]

Zi’s dialogue implies the masters are not like higher beings and are in fact capable of compressing them into powerlessness. Like the void, which consumes them and lines up excellently with Jinn’s testimony

[silver spire]

wait what can you send the source

Pale It... You would reject the role? Are you not tamed, bound, by Masters?... You would know... obedience is essential.
Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher...
...Compression... We have suffered it. We would never wish it upon another.

[stone herald]

I think a clue is in the name of the masters

[silver spire]

oh nevermind i found it

[muted lantern]

it seems it can alter her on smaller levels too, since beast crest changes how she taunts and talks when its active, but the crests of dead bugs seem to be something she can opt into and remove at a given time.

[stone herald]

The knight has completely mastered itself at this point

[fading shard]

a weaver could get taken out by a bunch of knights of hallownest

[arctic patrol]

Id assume both weaver queen and the scrapped ending are basically GMS and Hornet failing to bind one another

[fading shard]

they aren't THAT impressive

[stone herald]

Maybe the masters are beings that have full control over whatever vital substances there are in the world

[muted lantern]

honestly it feels like in both cases they would be some horrible gem fusion of eachother.

[stone herald]

I mean look at cases where master Is used in hollow knight here

[dusk harness]

Also, surprised there was never any mention of the living, uninfected Weaver that we saw in Hallownest after getting Weaversong

[stone herald]

it's just some guy

[muted lantern]

shes just chillin

[lean temple]

Exactly. She gains their skills and powers but it doesn't take her over

[muted lantern]

I imagine hornet after binding eva has some aspects of evas personality now

it seems like thats what the refusal text implies

[silver spire]

this is interesting, in this case then the masters HAVE to be included in dlcs, now i need to know more

[muted lantern]

so i imagine binding something who actively doesnt want to be bound and is extraordinarily powerful would make her a very different person

[lean temple]

It's basically Hornet being hesitant to do it since she doesn't know if she'll be able to handle binding Eva

[dusk harness]

Girl’s like “The rest of yall can deal with this infection nonsense I’m kicking my feet up and relaxing. Oh Hornet sweetie you’ve totally got those cloaked figures coming your way I’ll be napping in the hammock call if you need me”

[silver spire]

top two HK mysteries

• who tf are the masters
• PLEASE EXPAND ON MY BOY ABYSS CREATURE TC IM BEGGING YOUUUUU

[muted lantern]

shes hornets alchoholic aunt

[lean temple]

Sharpe and co likely will be

[hazy iron]

Does GMS have needolin dialogue?

[lean temple]

Watch Sharpe add another crazy terrifying feat the Masters can do

[muted lantern]

no-ish, she has dialogue in the silk heart memories that kinda takes it's place tho

[stone herald]

it's pretty funny that there's a ton of hullabaloo and it's equivalent to a kiss from salubra

[silver spire]

WAIT a minute.......

guys do we think that zi and jinn were higher beings that were "compressed" by the masters

Pale It... You would reject the role? Are you not tamed, bound, by Masters?... You would know... obedience is essential.
Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher...
...Compression... We have suffered it. We would never wish it upon another.

[dusk harness]

Which leads me to wonder: have we underestimated Salina as far as power scaling goes? Like if one of her kisses is equivalent to Eva’s whole being

[arctic patrol]

She's just gonna play some song and they're all gonna kill eachother you stand no chance without abilities

[lean temple]

Either higher or normal. I think all Steelhearts are made through compression

[silver spire]

they have suffered compression according to the dialogue

also what even is compression lol

[muted lantern]

well i assume the change is more of one of a sense of self from fusing two minds that shes concerned about, it probably does change her on some level, but doesnt alter her how she fears as eva was a willing participant

I imagine widow and such didn't have as strong of an effect because they werent as powerful as eva or gms

[dusk harness]

Hornet seems more upset that Eva would be effectively dead than worried that the process could backfire on her at the moment though

[lean temple]

I said my theories on it up a bit

[stone herald]

They just assume everyone follows the will of the masters I think

[muted lantern]

she has dialogue when refusing, saying she fears what it would do to her identity to absorb a mind so strange and powerful

[dusk harness]

Ah that’s cool

[stone herald]

Actually it's a little messed up that hornets just eating people

[muted lantern]

as i said, i think the feared result doesnt happen mainly because eva wanted to be part of hornet, and wouldnt fight for control like gms would, which goes back to my point that binding gms would really change hornet on a fundamental level, it really would not be the same person

[silver spire]

ok so now we have three forces that are seemingly more powerful than higher beings themselves

• void
• pale beings
• steel masters

while we do know about void and pale beings, steel masters are still mostly vague

[muted lantern]

weaver queen hornet would be a really interesting character to explore tho

[stone herald]

Yeah steel masters are probably at that level consider how litttle the steel guy cares about hornet

[arctic patrol]

Weaver Queen Hornet should use an everbloom and try to bind void to see what happens

[stone herald]

"should" "try to bind void"

[silver spire]

void seems to be in opposition to both of these

that begs the question, is the void more powerful than the steel masters?

[lean temple]

I also think the steel they use could be Pale Steel, which means somehow they acquired enough of it for all their Steelhearts.

[lean temple]

This is the big question for me

[arctic patrol]

Hey man you never know might work if she get's lucky and stabs some part that was made for something other than mauling people when the ancient fuckjoes were imprinting it into everything

[silver spire]

wait you mean pale ore?

ain no way lmao, we barely got enough for a small nail

[lean temple]

Pale Steel, which Hornet's Needle is made of. And which I think is in turn made form Pale Ore

[muted lantern]

She would die so fast lol

[silver spire]

unless theyre just hoarding the world's supply of pale ore

[broken hemlock]

isnt hornets needle made from hivesteel??

[muted lantern]

Hey so is pale lake just pks bathwater

[lean temple]

Final form is Pale Steel Needle

[arctic patrol]

Hey we know one whole higher being fought the void at least once and apparently just mauled it so maybe she has a chance too

[silver spire]

i feel like thats just the needle overdosing on pale oil xd

[muted lantern]

I doubt she fought it directly

[lean temple]

I mean could be. Pale Ore is still an option

[arctic patrol]

I don't the the void can really do anything against Radiance without something like the voidheart being set in place

[muted lantern]

That's likely due to the pale oil, the needle is hivesteel

[broken hemlock]

she said at one point it was given to her by the hive and made from a metal only they had tho

[arctic patrol]

It's just gonna kinda evaporate

[silver spire]

well obvi since the void is a powerful source, but it isn't unified

[lean temple]

I was talking about the Steelhearts

[silver spire]

so unless the radiance is literally submerged in void, it aint gonna do sh

[lean temple]

They could still be made from Pale Ore

[silver spire]

Pale It... You would reject the role? Are you not tamed, bound, by Masters?... You would know... obedience is essential.
Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher...
...Compression... We have suffered it. We would never wish it upon another.

in line with your theory

[stone herald]

Oh shit that is what they're doing

[arctic patrol]

I don't think that could even happen either considering the void would just, melt or stop moving like it does from the tower in the abyss

[silver spire]

could compression mean that pale ore is formed out of compressed higher beings?

[dusk harness]

Doesn’t the Hunter in HK say sometimes he accidentally gets drunk on the juice in the things Gulka shoot out

[lean temple]

Interestingly this is the only time Zi speaks in 1st person and she says "we", more evidence she means all the Steelhearts, not just herself.

[muted lantern]

I wouldnt be surprised

[arctic patrol]

That's a scary ass thought

How many pale beings have they killed man

[silver spire]

hey guys lets put pale king in a blender : D

we get another nail upgrade out of it

[muted lantern]

Wyrms vs hydraulic press

[silver spire]

and while we're at it, let's get white lady and GMS in there

[arctic patrol]

When Hornet dies during steel soul she get's compressed into pale ore

[muted lantern]

With how much the masters are built up, I wonder how much of a dlc they will get, or will they get their own whole game?

[stone herald]

They'll get a dlc that's actually its own game

[lean temple]

This is just a speculation. We don't know how all the different pale substances form

[lean temple]

Imagine they're never shown ever

[muted lantern]

Can you cook with pale oil?

[fading shard]

first off we don't even se the damn songs make bugs fight each other

they just stand still and sing

[muted lantern]

Imagine deep frying with it

[fading shard]

and two that had very much so to do with the silk within them

that let hornet and just the weavers in general control them

[muted lantern]

I feel like gourmands servant implies it's edible

[lean temple]

Pale Ore, oil, and lacquer and we don't know how any of them forms.

[dusk harness]

This is the same logic that guy in Pokemon: Legends Arceus had during that quest about “hey can you catch a Pokemon to use Dark Pulse on my food? The magic blast made of malicious intent really enhances the flavor.”

[fading shard]

And mind you hallownest doesn't face that problem

it's a goddamn pharloom issue

[silver spire]

i feel like the masters have built up so much mystique that no bossfight/meeting/npc could give them credit, unless TC pulls a silksong with one dlc

[fading shard]

it's even said that the damn experiments the cidatel made on the pilgrims just made the haunting EVEN EASIER to happen

[lean temple]

Fr

[fading shard]

and for them to be even easier to be controlled by weavers

[stone herald]

I agree

[arctic patrol]

Honestly could a steel city dlc potentially explain how higher beings like even come to be

[fading shard]

caretaker states this

[stone herald]

Uh oh the masters are trying to capture the hollow knight, let's see what happens next

[silver spire]

who wins: shade lord/VGF vs masters

[lean temple]

If anything they might be underwhelming if TC decide to show them

[stone herald]

Nah but a hollow knight game would be really weird due to them being so chunkyb

[lean temple]

What if the Masters are lords of shades

[silver spire]

i mean, zi says that the masters dislike it when something is tainted bhy the void

[stone herald]

As TC has some strong chops when it comes to doing things justice, stuff like lost lace and the radiance were truly epic

[arctic patrol]

I doubt everybody in bellhart has 5 tons of silk up their ass

[silver spire]

so id doubt that theyre void constructs themselves

[fading shard]

they do....

Care taker states so

every pilgrim has silk within them

[silver spire]

how would that work if you just got to pharloom

[lean temple]

I believe that means that only bugs with permission may use Void. Jiji does and the Masters don't seem to mind

[arctic patrol]

I need the line for this I don't trust he says EVERY single pilgrim has silk, also Hornet can make characters who aren't pilgrims sing regardless

[lean temple]

And if Sula learned from somewhere to summon Void (similar to how Jiji does even tho respawn isn't canon) then the Masters absolutely have knowledge on Void and maybe even use it

[solar tapir]

where do pilgrims come from actually

another kingdoms? Or just from surface

[fading shard]

it's bugs somewhere in pharloom

[stone herald]

I thinktbga just means that they recognize you shouldn't mess with the void

[fading shard]

they aren't bugs from other kingdoms

[arctic patrol]

The masters when a higher being spills their morning coffee:

[stone herald]

Which is impressive because the snail shamans and pale king did not grasp it

You could argue the pale king was desperate with the vessels of wingmoulds are inexcusable like what the hell was that about

[fading shard]

those didn't really backfire on him though

[stone herald]

Why the hell would you make wingmoulds. Kingsmoulds I get, even though it's stupid but using void in wingmoulds is insane what was my man on

[arctic patrol]

He just putting void in anything

[fading shard]

they served the job he gave till the end

[stone herald]

He died in a void laden castle, probably wasn't the wingmoulds but it can't have helped

[solar tapir]

They are all come from bone bottom

[fading shard]

He only created costructs T_T

[stone herald]

It's like when we put radiation in everything back in the day and then we found out glowing objects from radiation kills us

[fading shard]

With void

[solar tapir]

And its an edge of Pharloom, no?

[lean temple]

WL and PK and Radiance all know about it. PK and Hornet acknowledge the danger in using it. The Hallownest Shamans didn't use it but the Pharloom ones definitely liked it for its power

[arctic patrol]

I wonder how old Radiance is if void is hers in specific ancient enemy

[stone herald]

2/3 void spells comes from snajk shamans and the pharloom guy says that the snail shamans have a proclivity to void

[solar tapir]

So just random bugs around pharloom? From surface or nearby caves

[stone herald]

I think people undersell the radiance a bit just because the knight Is so goated

[lean temple]

That and Sula used it without their permission and against their will

[fading shard]

The snail shaman in crossroads say otherwise

[stone herald]

And since it was improperly used there's now the risk of the void having corrupted sula

[lean temple]

Void spells are the Knight's Void merging with the spell using the shaman's power as catalyst

[fading shard]

they say that he and other snail shamans wouldn't touch it

[arctic patrol]

Radiance only looks like a fraud because they put her up against the strongest being in the universe

[stone herald]

Well the abyss shriek wasn't that and it also let to an identical result.

And the snail shaman in act 3 tells us "oh yeah we used void you should've known with us snails"

[arctic patrol]

Bird moth thing is gonna have to take second plave for now Im afraid

[fading shard]

That scream? Ooohh, distorted in such a way... It's not within the skills of us snails to do such a thing.

Wherever you draw this new power from, it's not a place my kind ever thought to look

[fading shard]

dialogue from the snail shaman

the snail shaman just states that they did not dabble with the void in hallownest

[arctic patrol]

Fucking liar I tell you

He's lying out of his ass here I just can't prove it

[lean temple]

The Hallownest shaman says they didn't mess with Void, and says the Knight must have found a powerful source to transform VS into SS. In pharloom obviously the Shamans there did know void

[stone herald]

Did the shaman there say just he didn't mess with void, or all shamans in hallownest

Ah I see

[lean temple]

@stone herald

[terse warren]

he says his kind never thought to look in the abyss

[arctic patrol]

The Shamans should not be allowed to fuck with void

[stone herald]

I guess in game the abyss shriek IS qualitatively different from the other void spells

Or that specific shriek spell wasn't perfected by the void

[wild zinc]

Anyone else really wish we got shown more off the empty space between kingdoms

[stone herald]

Actually lorewise void spells should be an oxymoron, the knight really is a freak of nathre, even the pure vessel wasn't doing that

[solar tapir]

These shamans in pharloom btw, are they are native to the kingdom?

[wild zinc]

Like where the hell do all the pilgrims come from

[craggy smelt]

Abyss Shriek came from an altar of the ancient civilization - crossroads shaman doesn't recognize their work
Pharloom snails also mention they haven't been to the Abyss

[lone folio]

Pilgrim broodmother

[muted lantern]

I mean doesn't the quirrel comic give us a lot of that already?

[craggy smelt]

listen, never mind all that, I just had a real lore revelation:
The 'Pickled Muckmaggot' confirms the existence of the pickling process, thereby essentially confirming the existence of pickles.
Meaning the phrase 'in a pickle' used in the Wanderer's Journal isn't a misplaced idiom, but an actual canon, in-world turn of phrase.
Pickles exist in Holloworld, and are a byword for troublesome situations.

[stone herald]

It would be so cold if the leader of steel city was just a normal bug
Not even a named character looking bug, like a common pilgrim or menderbug looking bug

[muted lantern]

Considering most of the pilgrims seem very young, I imagine they live outside the main mountain of pharloom in smaller settlements similar to where Shakra lives, and they set out on the pilgrimage when they reach adulthood, the elder pilgrims are just the ones who are really damn slow on their climb

[muted lantern]

What if it's zote

[stone herald]

It should be zotes parents

[lean temple]

This confirms the existence of micro organisms in HK

[arctic patrol]

Steel City probably is gonna be the first place that isn't like a total monarchy, more like a slave republic!

[muted lantern]

Oh God and he's literally the grey prince

[fading shard]

the pilgrims are at the very least part of pharloom

[fading shard]

Like come from around that area

[muted lantern]

Yeah, but the part of pharloom we explore is just one part, I'm saying they probably live on the outskirts but still part of the kingdom, similar to shakras tribe.

[lean temple]

I assume the Masters are the leaders. We don't know how many they are or if they're all equal though

[fading shard]

fair

[fading shard]

I still don't get how they are stronger then someone as the pale king

[rugged storm]

so I completed the old one quest right, but I got clover dancers heart instead of karmelita, and gilly was like, why did you kill her, she was so important for the ants, and hornet said cause she needed the heart but I actually killed karmelita cause my shelf was looking empty

[arctic patrol]

Zote got compressed by his parents and now wanders the world until it's time to get decompressed

[craggy smelt]

I would like the idea that the Masters aren't necessarily higher being/pale being-tier, but happen to have powers that enable them to counter pale beings
like, the Everbloom can hard counter the Void, maybe they have something that hard counters the Pale to the same degree

[fading shard]

listen the only beings we've met who are STRONGE then him are the pale kings kids

[vestal swan]

Nobody knows how strong they are?

[fading shard]

cough cough little ghost

[vestal swan]

Why are we assuming how strong characters nobody has met are

[muted lantern]

The pharloom we explore seems to be built into a dormant volcano considering the magma and the verticality of the kingdom, especially considering it's alongside another mountain. I imagine there are smaller settlements surrounding the volcano

[lone folio]

"ah darn my self looks empty.. I should put the heart of a monarch on it"

[stone herald]

They're compared to the knight post void-hesrt as "complete"

[fading shard]

the radiance

and just the void in general

[stone herald]

I think completeness here just means mastery over who you are

The radiance is complete because she can control her realm and essence for example

[vestal swan]

That's not really comparable that is a similarity that one character draws

[fading shard]

Actually why don't people really talk about how powerful the pale king really was

[stone herald]

Because he's a bum

[vestal swan]

This I agree with

[rugged storm]

now I can hear heartbeats while listening to conductor mizello's last surgery🔥

[fading shard]

Like I get his character is something that's a lot more interesting to talk about

[lone folio]

He has no feats except for making a kingdom

[fading shard]

but his power and strength is some that very few rival

[lean temple]

There's also the whole thing with compression and higher beings they have going on

[muted lantern]

I mean we don't know much about his combat prowess. He's clearly incredible with soul magic, but he doesn't seem to directly engage in combat, his power seemed to be more his intellect and mastery of soul.

[fading shard]

The lore we get for him basically give him his feats

[lone folio]

In his wyrm form he was probably invincible :/

[lone folio]

500 saw blades

[fading shard]

It was confirmed that he personally trained the pure vessel

[lone folio]

Where?

[fading shard]

and taught it it's abilities

[stone herald]

I feel like the pale king wasn't just a ruler doing his best, I think he was legitimately a bad person

[muted lantern]

Hence the pv's soul magic yeah

[rugged storm]

fr, that probably would've made him like unn or the radiance

[fading shard]

wtf

[arctic patrol]

Pale King picking up the blade feels odd in my head

[stone herald]

Or at least very very very delusional

[sinful nimbus]

huh

[fading shard]

Are you insane

[lone folio]

Where does it say that he trained the vessel?

[stone herald]

Actually most of my points come from the wyrm compulsion thing

[fading shard]

What

[stone herald]

I mean let's not attribute unneeded kindness to the pale king

I think he was building the kingdom for himself

[fading shard]

wtf are you talking about

[muted lantern]

He wasn't delusional, he seemed to do good by his people, he just was an abysmal parent

[sinful nimbus]

Well its implied he was a proficient soul user through everything that uses soul in the White Palace and the fact that all vessels can use it so its the most natural assumption

[stone herald]

He was delusional about the hallownest being able to last forever despite foresight

[lone folio]

But in hand to hand combat I find it unlikely

[fading shard]

We don't even know how far it went

[muted lantern]

I'd say more egotistical, but it's a good point

[stone herald]

The pale king was willing to do anything for his kingdom, not his people

[fading shard]

and how is that even make him a bad ruler

[sinful nimbus]

Pale King was hubristic in the sense that he wanted to create an eternal kingdom yes but to call him a bad person is complete hyperbole

[fading shard]

That's not even true

[sinful nimbus]

What's the distinction

He created a prosperous kingdom that was generally good to live in

[rugged storm]

maybe he wanted to tell everyone hallownest was eternal, even though he knew it wasn't for morale

[solar tapir]

And what is kingdom without people?

[fading shard]

He literally wanted to save his people

[solar tapir]

He cared for citizens

[sinful nimbus]

Why are you baselessly attributing malice or any immoral behaviour

[solar tapir]

Mostly

[fading shard]

All we hear about him as a king is positive

Hell same goes as a husband

[stone herald]

Im talking about his intention here

[fading shard]

you can't be going against what we know about him

[fading shard]

he is painted as a decent guy

so idk why are you here trying to say otherwise

[stone herald]

Not denying the good he did but the motivations for it I feel were driven primarily due to the wyrm bit

[sinful nimbus]

We can't really deduce his motives beyond the basic fact that wyrms like to pull bugs into their thrall

[lone folio]

Better then GMS

[sinful nimbus]

But that doesn't even entail that all wyrms do it in the same way he did

[stone herald]

Yeah better than GMS

[fading shard]

My guy if that was the case why was he described to feel immense guilt

and feel horrible about his actions with the vessels

[stone herald]

He wasn't a good person but he wasn't THAT bad

[muted lantern]

I generally agree I interpert his love for his kingdom was more about them being his, rather than love for them as individuals due to the generally possessive nature of God's. But it doesn't particularly matter in the grand scheme of things as his actions seemed to generally benifit his people.

[stone herald]

It's not a binary

[fading shard]

He was a decent guy

[solar tapir]

U mean worship instinct?

[arctic patrol]

She loves being catholic

[stone herald]

True, but when things like the soul experiments and the vessel program start happening

It shows he's willing to place his kingdom over people's well being

[solar tapir]

like all pale beings have

[sinful nimbus]

Soul experiments weren't his idea

[lone folio]

And lying she also likes that

[fading shard]

The soul experiments were by the soul tyrant

[sinful nimbus]

He shut down the soul experiments in fact

[fading shard]

and he was against it

[stone herald]

Wait shit

[fading shard]

He litearlly shut down the soul experiments that the soul tyrant tried to make

[stone herald]

I haven't played it in a while, I recall him begrudgingly allowing them

[silver spire]

the soul experiments were the soul masters, not pale king

[fading shard]

he banned the use of life blood

[solar tapir]

Its doesnt make sense

[fading shard]

no he didn't

[sinful nimbus]

As for the vessel project that was more a trolley problem if anything

[muted lantern]

Well hes said to hate the soul master, but the vessel experiments were definitely horrific and immoral though understandable given his desperation.

[stone herald]

Ok y'know what guys I might be wrong here

[silver spire]

and the vessels was a result of the trolley problem

[silver spire]

EXACTLY THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING THANK YOU

[solar tapir]

Again what is kingdom without citizens

[stone herald]

A big part of my argument was the soul experiments

[fading shard]

he didn't do anything with soul

[sinful nimbus]

Definite amount of vessels dying in a relatively painless way vs An indefinite amount of citizens dying in an incredibly gruesome way

[fading shard]

Well he didn't have any part of them and was against them

[stone herald]

I remembered that bit wrong

[silver spire]

the king disallowed the soul master's experiments

[fading shard]

he was against the soul experiments

[sinful nimbus]

Proof #sk-lore is a hivemind

[arctic patrol]

We're all part of the unravelled

[fading shard]

the soul tyrant literally said that he pale king did everything in his power to stop him

[vestal swan]

The cube compactor will come for them all

[fading shard]

and his soul experiments

[stone herald]

This has been reiterated like 5 times

[lean temple]

Indeed

[fading shard]

yeah I know

[stone herald]

Nah I didn't cook with that one I get it

[fading shard]

So what was your point

[stone herald]

I was trying to get a discussion going again

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but did you know PK shut down the soul sanctum

[stone herald]

Shit guys I think the PK shut down the soul sanctum

[dusk harness]

The Citadel and GMS religion are much more similar to Protestantism and puritan religions actually with its emphasis on rosary collecting and mega church vibes

[silver spire]

as stated, wyrms pull bugs into their thrall, so its in the pale king's nature. BUT, in return, he gave the bugs of hallownest everything

[arctic patrol]

Oh my God yeah fucking mega church 😭💔

[stone herald]

Wait a second I forgot it's a major religion