sk-lore

[vestal swan]

Needolin sucks for lore because it takes fuel

[terse warren]

I don't like how it doesn't work on many corpses

E.g. Bilewater Wardenfly

[stone herald]

yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Its okay because needolin lore hardly reveals anything important

[cobalt coyote]

It rarely works on corpses

[terse warren]

A LOT of missed lore because of that shit

[stone herald]

it was a lot less clear what was needolinable, needolin was less convienient to pull out, and it consumed resource, meaning that unlike in HK where i dreamnailedlitearlly everything, needolin barely got used

[terse warren]

You don't even need to use it to beat the game

[stone herald]

yes you do

[terse warren]

The only place where the game checks for the Needolin is Mist

And you need to get it for Bells cuz duh

Everything else is just a cutscene

[cobalt coyote]

Also grand gate

[elfin niche]

Is it not a mirror?

[terse warren]

It's a weird bacta tank shit methinks

[stone herald]

its like a stasis pod

[terse warren]

Isn't that also a cutscene

[stone herald]

phantoms probably the first prototype for a silk-based offspring

[cobalt coyote]

Oh right

[silk dirge]

yeah but you get needolin from ringing one of the bells

[elfin niche]

huh, maybe - it's called THREAD_MEMORY_ORGAN_TANK_04

[vestal swan]

File names aren't Canon

[elfin niche]

funny analogy to Eva

[terse warren]

Ok but like GMS wouldn't wait enough for Phantom to be that significantly older than Lace that she's extremely grey so

[vestal swan]

Yet again there's stuff that doesn't make sense in the files

[terse warren]

Which I already stated 🥴

[terse warren]

Goomba

[stone herald]

i mean its a Thread memory with the needolin, and its a tank in the organ. Its just a label name

[cobalt coyote]

Wait so quirrel death nail aint too?

[errant mica]

theyre Context

[vestal swan]

We know Quirrel is dead without that file name

[silk dirge]

drifters cloak is called "brolly" in code 😭

[edgy barn]

iirc if you free Grindle in the marrow you can pay him to get tips on how to progress.

[errant mica]

fym 🚫 what else could they be???

[stone herald]

i think organ here means exhaust organ, not biological organ

[elfin niche]

Agreed with this. It's one of my biggest complaints about Silksong.

Not that I have many.

[stone herald]

its my biggest

[vestal swan]

They are file names that don't make sense most of the time, pretend they don't exist because they're not part of the lore

[stone herald]

the dreamnail is really really >>>>>>>> the needolin

[stone herald]

they can help to clarify developer intent sometimes though, if theyre indecipherable just leave them be and chalk it up to a label

[edgy barn]

I think it's meant to be a double meaning. It is an music organ that expells the refuse, but is also the structure of the bigger system that is the citadel dedicated to that specific task.

It is an organ, and also the citadel's exhaust organ.

[silk dirge]

so its the citadels ass hole 😭

[stone herald]

oh i like that, i didnt catch that. In the context of the file name its referring to the structure we enter as hornet thouhg, not that the tank we see Phantom in being used for organs

[vestal swan]

You cannot cherry pick from a bad source

[stone herald]

youre claiming that file name reveals nothing about developer intent? or are you claiming that developer intent is irrelevant to lore?

[vestal swan]

It can't because some of them are absolutely nonsense so the context behind one cannot be weighed the same as the context behind another and what you assume about the context is entirely you

[stone herald]

youre right that some are up to interpretation, but you can just read the file name and see if it's clear or unclear as to what it refers to

[vestal swan]

No? Do you not understand the bad source part

[stone herald]

for example, in the case of THREAD_MEMORY_ORGAN_TANK_04 theres not really a lot of interpretation required, it does tell us that Phantom is in a tank, but that was visually shown anyways

[vestal swan]

Yeah for instance where are the first three tanks

This implies two children we never met

This is how you can easily misread everything that you think is simple

[stone herald]

thats not what im saying

[vestal swan]

A bad source cannot be Canon

[terse warren]

Multiple unrelated enemies in the game are called goomba

Should we assume they're all related to each other

[stone herald]

is that actually true

[terse warren]

This implies Silksong isn't canon

[subtle plaza]

Yes

[terse warren]

Yes

[stone herald]

oh my god thats hilarious. In that case though, its very obvious why tehyre called goomba, and that it shoudlnt be taken lorewise

[vestal swan]

Oh another thing I was right about before the game came out, the metadata being complete bullshit

[silk dirge]

the what

[stone herald]

the steam stuff?

[edgy barn]

The entire HK franchise is actually the PK having a foresight dream before he establishes his kingdom.

[silk dirge]

also wtf is up with the icon for the last steam rank thing

[edgy barn]

Now he knows to not have a baby with Herrah because it will turn out racist down the line.

[silk dirge]

it has a bunch of relics, everbloom and then some steel looking thing that is never seen in game

whats up with that

bc hk the foil was void heart

which was very clearly something in game

[vestal swan]

It was some weird ass file names attached to like news posts and YouTube videos where people thought it was naming the locations or something and none of it lines up with the final game like I said it wouldn't

[silk dirge]

so either they decided to make it something not in game now

[stone herald]

what steam rank thing

[silk dirge]

or they put cut content in the steam thing

[stone herald]

i see your point now, you are right. you werent so much talking about filenames being nonsensical and that you cant use ones that make sense, you were talking about filenames being straight up wrong, adn that you cant rely on them to clarify things if you dont know which ones are wrong?

[vestal swan]

Yep

[silk dirge]

whats the last icon

[stone herald]

oh what is that

[vestal swan]

That is certainly weird looking

[stone herald]

we sure its not steel soul thing?

[silk dirge]

i dont think so

[vestal swan]

I don't know why it looks like wings

[stone herald]

could be a boss rush thing

[silk dirge]

the best theory is it might just not have ever been something in game and they just made a special icon for that

[stone herald]

thats pure speculation i know, but whats going to go above everbloom? not a haert

oh wait thats the silksong

[silk dirge]

but still thats a weird choice

considering they couldve put rune harps as a relic and made everbloom the foil

apparently theres also another thing in the files with it

[storm ridge]

where can i see this?

[edgy barn]

The foil thing looks like a main mission icon.

[stone herald]

good catch, it really does

im gonna go out on a limb and say its the bossrush

[terse warren]

Looks like a mission icon

[terse warren]

Fml 🐌ms

[silk dirge]

steamdb

[silk dirge]

i wonder if it has to do with steel city possibly?

[terse warren]

It doesn't really look like steel at all

[silk dirge]

it looks metallic to me

anyways yeah this makes me wonder if theres more to act 3 that got cut before the game released and they left that in and itll be dlc?

bc like i stated it wouldnt make sense for them to need to create a special icon for that when they could just push everbloom up by adding rune harp as a badge

[fierce narwhal]

i think that's just a unused memento

[silk dirge]

that doesnt look like a memento at all tho

[fierce narwhal]

i mean none of the hearts do either but they still are

[silk dirge]

hearts are a weird case

[fierce narwhal]

maybe it was intended for beating steel soul?

[dense aspen]

Why is it cold in mount fay? And why is it called a mount

[silk dirge]

possibly

[sinful nimbus]

Same devs who said they WOULDN'T make goomba like enemies smh my head

[silk dirge]

but then why doesnt it appear when you beat steel soul

or atleast i havent seen it used there

i havent beaten steel soul myself

[fierce narwhal]

maybe because it would be weird to get an item in your inventory after beating the game

and no it isn't used

[edgy barn]

Maybe it is an unused icon for the final mission?

[fierce narwhal]

maybe its a kingdoms edge situation where a really big bug died and it eventually started to flake off

[silk dirge]

could be but its not voided so it doesnt make sense

[dense aspen]

Ok but why is it so cold

[silk dirge]

maybe they wanted to make it void

[fierce narwhal]

and i think its just a bit too small to be a mission icon

[silk dirge]

and thats why it was cut?

but then why not just put that icon

its extremely suspicious to me this comes after everbloom where the foil in hk was void heart which was the equivalent item there

[fierce narwhal]

that is true

[silk dirge]

like what possibly could an item after everbloom mean

[fierce narwhal]

its just the fact that it has hornets face on it just makes me feel it isn't a main quest item

like it just feels commemorative

[vestal swan]

The difference is kingdom's edge didn't have real snow that was just wyrm dandruff

[silk dirge]

yeah but then why cut out another relic from badges to force that as the foil when you could just have everbloom as the foil

[stone herald]

Would the knight even get cold

[silk dirge]

i was surprised to find rune harps bc they werent on the steam badges as relics

[stone herald]

What internal body processes are there to disrupt

[vestal swan]

Probably not unless it was freezing the air temperatures

[silk dirge]

its a pretty interesting relic to cut out of the steam badges

considering rune harps are pretty important

[dense aspen]

Imagine a hollow knight game set on the surface

[fierce narwhal]

very odd ill say i dont really have a concrete answer

[silk dirge]

its likely we are overthinking it but i hope there is something more to it

[vestal swan]

Now you want to talk about an empty game

[silk dirge]

dlc bait?

i can hope

[solar tapir]

Kingdom somewhere in the mountains on the surface

[edgy barn]

I mean it is literally called Silksong. That and its design makes it feel very final-ly.

[solar tapir]

That would be interesting

[silk dirge]

that brings the question tho why not use the in game one

why use a cut one

this is how last dive icon looks

has anyone seen anything at acmi that could point to possibly what this icon means

i remember something else was found in the files near it that was also of note

a similar looking unused icon

[fierce narwhal]

I'll try to check!

[fierce narwhal]

well!

slightly different but it is a unused task icon!

in addition theres a unused achievement icon related to mementos

[slow olive]

Must be a final memento or smth

[fierce narwhal]

im guessing at some point there was a task related to getting all mementos or something similar

[plush spoke]

please dont add an achievement where we have to collect all mementos

[quartz salmon]

i think ive responded to something like this before but yeah might just be a hornet memento

[slow olive]

Lowkey glad they didnt add the mementos to the achievements

[oblique spire]

i cant get seth memento

its so hard beat the minigames

its the last one for me

[plush spoke]

how strong actually are the flea npcs?
they cooked moorwing and travelled through blasterd steps and putrified ducts without issues

[slow olive]

I mean moorwing was dead when they got to it

I do wonder how the caravans travel through those areas

[silver spire]

they replace moorwing when u get enough fleas

[silk dirge]

very interesting then why they would leave a cut icon as the foil

[slow olive]

Hornet doesnt defend them on route

[silver spire]

but dont get into greymoor

[slow olive]

They still pick up moorwings corpse afterwards right? Like they always have it in fleatopia even if the moorwing battle gets delayed?

[plush spoke]

wait what i thought they killed moorwing

[slow olive]

I fought moorwing in my save before the flea caravan moved

[plush spoke]

mine moved first

[fierce narwhal]

isn't moorwing available in act 2 in a different location tho if you go with the fleas

unless there's multiple...?

[plush spoke]

ye but they still captured him and cooked him at putrified ducts no?

[slow olive]

I assumed that would only be after u fight moorwing in act 2

Not sure tho

[fierce narwhal]

yeah but that isn't really a testament of their strength since hornet was the one who killed it

[slow olive]

Vog looks tough at least

[fierce narwhal]

definitely

[slow olive]

She was able to map out the locations of the missing fleas but didnt go get them for some reason

I guess she isnt the quick nimble type like hornet

[fierce narwhal]

she had to aurafarm tho

[slow olive]

She definitely rosary farmed me as well

[digital hemlock]

what if she has…… fleasense

[slow olive]

Do the fleas grow up to become like vog and the rest or are they like different kinds of fleas in one caravan

[digital hemlock]

like worldsense for fleas

[slow olive]

She got the fleasight instead of farsight

[digital hemlock]

although it does feel weird lorewise if her fleasight is like global to the entire size of pharloom and somehow she also can know what the fleas locations are irl and put them on to a map

to me it makes more sense if she just travels each area and scouts for fleas, writing down the flea locations as she senses them nearby like in the proximity of a few rooms

but if she actually travels to each area to detect the fleas it does raise the question of how she is able to go to some of these areas

[fierce narwhal]

aura

[naive lake]

i wonder, are all hollow knight monarchs destined to be higher beings

[latent sparrow]

What do you mean? Like all royalty in the world?

[naive lake]

I mean, all those who rule a kingdom appear to be monarchs such as white wyrm and silk monarch

[atomic dirge]

"all those who rule a kingdom appear to be monarchs"

that's how mafia monarchy works

[naive lake]

Stop dawg

[latent sparrow]

do you mean all higher beings are destined to be monarchs?

[atomic dirge]

i think they mean the opposite

as in

are all monarchs higher beings
which not really?

[latent sparrow]

I mean they said the opposite but I’m not sure what that means lmao

[naive lake]

Sorry guys i'm working on 4 cups of coffee and a dream while trying to go through my 9 to 5

[latent sparrow]

haha don’t worry king

but I do think it’s interesting how higher beings might just through their nature come to rule

like with hornet talking about her instinct to bind gms and whether that means she simply takes her place as ruler

[slow olive]

Is that the wyrm side or the weaver side of her

[latent sparrow]

You could argue both

[atomic dirge]

lemme check her dialogue with caretaker

[latent sparrow]

Probably wyrm I’d say though

[slow olive]

Hmm true

[latent sparrow]

though some part of the weaver in her might just want to run the ones with gms LMAO

[slow olive]

Wyrm mixed with weaver could even make the desire to rule more of an iron fist type of rule

[latent sparrow]

it’s interesting the way base instincts exist in hk

[atomic dirge]

Caretaker to Hornet: "So what're you hopin' for, eh? Planning to usurp, to perch above us all as queen? Build up our hopes only to string us all in your own beastly web? Such is the way of Weavers and gods both..."

[slow olive]

Yep makes u remember these are bugs

[latent sparrow]

I guess there’s a lot to look at with the free will that the pale king caused as a “beacon”

[latent sparrow]

confirmed it’s both sides hype

[slow olive]

Mhm since the weavers did still position themselves to be divine so "lowly" bugs worshipped them

[latent sparrow]

Gods in hk are always just really interesting

Because they’re not gods in the traditional sense they’re kind of just

Strong charismatic guys

Like if you nuked any of the gods in hk they’re gone probably

[slow olive]

Bugs with higher powers

[atomic dirge]

hornet cross stitches the nuke

[naive lake]

even shade lord has some followers who's to say there's not a cult of every god

[latent sparrow]

Yeah it’s interesting

Or that might just be the worship of the void itself

[atomic dirge]

only higher being we saw not like
ruling anything

[latent sparrow]

I’m not sure shade lord existed before the knight

[atomic dirge]

was Unn

[naive lake]

unn is just chilling

[latent sparrow]

I can’t remember but didn’t it used to though

Or at least it still called to green path guys a bit

wait the white lady didn’t really rule anything now that I think about it

[slow olive]

Unn got replaced by pale king and didnt seem to mind

At least from what i recall

[naive lake]

Unn gave life to greenpath whole

That's all i rembr

[atomic dirge]

oh and i guess this fucking thing

[slow olive]

The old hearts in pharloom weren't as chill tho

[latent sparrow]

She had her own weird stuff going on but she’s kind of the only god who’s goal didn’t seem to have anything to do with domination

Or at least the highest ranked god

[atomic dirge]

is Nyleth a higher being

[edgy barn]

The nightmare heart rules over the grimm troupe.

[naive lake]

i forgot what white lady's gift to the world was

[slow olive]

Not confirmed in skong but i think she fits the bill

[atomic dirge]

eh that's debatable

[edgy barn]

Uncomfirmed but I don't think is likely

[latent sparrow]

I really want a boss rush mode but I’m not sure lore wise how it would happen

There was only one god seeker left right

[slow olive]

Nyleth is called the first seed by seth so basically she's the reason shellwood exists

[edgy barn]

Her heart is not more powerful than the others.

[latent sparrow]

Dollar store unn

[edgy barn]

How

[atomic dirge]

karm and khann were just built different

[slow olive]

And in her prime was even the protector of bugs that travelled through it

[atomic dirge]

i dunno if i'd call that "ruling over"

[slow olive]

Lmao u could say that

[naive lake]

if nyleth is a higher being they weak as fuck

[slow olive]

Seth was harder to fight yeah

Her arena was annoying tho

[naive lake]

or maybe nyleth's only purpose was to bring life to shellwood

[slow olive]

True maybe they werent exactly a combat type of plant

[latent sparrow]

My nyleth fight was so annoying because I couldn’t be bothered going back to a bench to change my items

So I did every attempt with an empty extra heal because I used it on seth

And no tools lmao

[slow olive]

And its weird that the area u spawn her in is just a fountain? Or statue thing?

[latent sparrow]

Yeah the rest were literal corpses huh

[slow olive]

Or elegy spawn her

[latent sparrow]

Or literally the person I guess

[naive lake]

weird how her heart just sprouts out of the statue

[slow olive]

Maybe its a tombstone? The heart grows out of the ground right

[naive lake]

Like dandelions on concrete

[latent sparrow]

Oh that could be it

[atomic dirge]

it's a shrine

the heart is in the statue somehow

[latent sparrow]

Do we know what the deal is with karmelita growing size

why’d she lose all her aura

[slow olive]

Some bugs grow large with age

[atomic dirge]

that's probably just how ants grow in HK

[latent sparrow]

poor fellow

should’ve gotten a silk addiction or something

[slow olive]

Karmelita is definitely a pretty strong bug tho

She held gms at bay with just her song

[latent sparrow]

Yeah that’s kind of crazy for a regular ass bug

[atomic dirge]

she also fights with eyes closed and while singing cause she's just fucking built different

[molten parcel]

I think Phantom and Lace represent jing and jang

[atomic dirge]

though i suspect she's like, a bit more than "a regular bug"

[slow olive]

Spinning dual curveclaws even

[terse warren]

When I'm in a "twisting a game's words into an unrecognizable statement" competition and my opponent is a #sk-lore user

[molten parcel]

Phantom: in all Bad theres a good

Lace: in all good theres a bad

[atomic dirge]

oh the no fun guys are here

[slow olive]

What

[naive lake]

karmelita got too old

[molten parcel]

What do u think bout this

[atomic dirge]

correcting someone normally? ❌
being a dick over it? ✅

[terse warren]

"Her song allowed the Skarrs to resist the Pale Monarch's influence, longer than most at least"≠"She held gms at bay with just her song"

[molten parcel]

Phantom might be evil but they still a broken child by GMS

[naive lake]

bugs in hollow knight tend to just be ginormous at elder age

[latent sparrow]

I’ve never found a discord help chat where people weren’t pretentious about it

[slow olive]

Yall can correct me with that but not be lowkey rude about it

[atomic dirge]

yo check this out

[latent sparrow]

LMAO THIS IS ACTUALLY CRAZY SEMANTICS

[terse warren]

It's literally a completely different sentence

[atomic dirge]

skynx's name being skynx because he skinned styx wasn't so obvious

[slow olive]

Thats not even that far of a jump?

[atomic dirge]

there now we wait

[terse warren]

Bait doesn't work if you literally say it's bait

[naive lake]

gang you dont have to be condescending btw, its not like he disrespected a religion

[terse warren]

It's pretty far of a jump

Giving people strength to ignore GMS≠Placating GMS as a whole

[latent sparrow]

Holding something at bay means resisting something LMAO?

[terse warren]

...no?

[atomic dirge]

thing is now and before making lore mistakes has been met with just rudeness here for no real reason and i'm kinda fed up with it

[atomic dirge]

maybe it's cause i'm not first language english but it sounds pretty similar to me

[terse warren]

You're thinking of the verb "restrain"

[slow olive]

Yep its not lmao but that sounds pretty similar to me

[atomic dirge]

yeah i think this is was they meant

[latent sparrow]

You can hold something at bay temporarily, in fact that’s literally built into the statement. You wouldn’t say you are holding something at bay if you completely solved the problem

[slow olive]

Im new here and honestly it felt like the norm so im wary chatting here sometimes lol

[terse warren]

Being fire resistant doesn't mean you're keeping the fire at bay

Resisting is defensive, holding back is offensive

[slow olive]

Like u can disagree with me sure but why be passive-aggresive about it

[latent sparrow]

We have a genuine pedant it’s actually amazing

[sinful nimbus]

Reading up I'm not seeing any condescension

Its not a personal attack to critique an idea

[atomic dirge]

.

[terse warren]

Ok so you're just gonna keep ignoring my argument

[slow olive]

This isnt condescending?

[sinful nimbus]

Not especially its also correct that the game doesn't say that

[atomic dirge]

yeah idk that definitely seems like being condescending for the sake of being condescending

[terse warren]

I'm making fun of the channel not you specifically

[lapis creek]

nature is healing

[slow olive]

Well i didnt say that thats what the game directly says

[terse warren]

So you made up information

[slow olive]

That was what i understood

Lmao no???

[atomic dirge]

can we make a ss-lore 2

[terse warren]

So it's a matter of reading comprehension

[latent sparrow]

They phrased a sentence slightly differently than how you wanted it to be phrased

[latent sparrow]

TRUTH NUKE

[broken bear]

ik this is old but i found a much better example

[terse warren]

It's not how I want it to be phrased it's a literal quote from the game and the way they said it changes the meaning

[slow olive]

What about my reading comprehension are u implying then

[atomic dirge]

girl this is pure semantics atp

[slow olive]

According to u it changes the meaning

[atomic dirge]

the words are similar enough

[latent sparrow]

It is

[terse warren]

According to the English language???

[sinful nimbus]

What are we even waffling about

[atomic dirge]

didn't you say you backread

[latent sparrow]

the English language is not a set of rules that’s not how language works

[slow olive]

Lmao nvm this aint worth it sorry i used the phrase "keeping at bay"

[terse warren]

"Her song allowed the Skarrs to resist the Pale Monarch's influence, longer than most at least"≠"She held gms at bay with just her song"

[atomic dirge]

BAY LIKE PHARLOOM BAY???

[terse warren]

That's literally how definitions for words work?????

[limpid summit]

Her song likely united the Skarr and kept them focused, and without her as an active presence, they became haunted. It’s like how the bees became infected once Vespa died

[sinful nimbus]

Karmelita held back the effects of the haunting marginally, which is slightly different than holding GMS at bay entirely its just a clarification. There is no need for this to be blown out of proportion

[latent sparrow]

Definitions for words change all the time, the purpose of language is to be understood and their statement was understood by everyone other than you

[atomic dirge]

what he meant to say i assume is with her song she prevented GMS' influence from controlling the ants

[terse warren]

Still think it's referring to before the Haunting but not what I'm here to argue here

[atomic dirge]

saying that with the words "keeping GMS at bay" isn't that farfetched

[silver spire]

guys are the deep docks completely controlled by the citadel

[limpid summit]

Well I mean that part specifically is you’re right

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[slow olive]

Again like i said its okay to disagree and i wouldve adjusted accordingly. There's just no need to be a dick about it.

Woops sorry wrong tag

[latent sparrow]

yeah this is what I care about mostly I’m just annoyed lmao

[silver spire]

because while there is that area where we fight lace, it doesn't seem like they were commissioned by the citadel as evidenced by the diving bell

[slow olive]

Im just here to talk about lore not be replied to in a passive aggressive way just because i used a wrong phrase

[atomic dirge]

same honestly i'm more annoyed at the tone but i'm trying to approach the situation in a way to de-escalate it

[silver spire]

ig a better question would be are the deep docks a direct product of the citadel, or simply an area taken over by the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

Deep Docks workers are sent from the "Forgehome" whatever that is

[limpid summit]

Likely the former as most areas in Pharloom are

Like how Greymoor and Sinner’s Road are extensions

[atomic dirge]

Hornet refers to Deep Docks as an outpost of the citadel

[terse warren]

The working station itself is a product of the Citadel

[limpid summit]

Mark of fealty all workers etc

[silver spire]

wait so that means that the citadel has access to the abyss

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet: How did you come to serve these docks, Forge Daughter?

Sent from our Forgehome we were, at request of those holy bugs above.
Hornet: The Citadel dwellers? The veiled bugs? They order you here?
Yes! An age ago that. Such is duty! We Forge Daughters live to hone the craft, and aid the line.
By the Citadel's patronage, and our long duty upon these docks, our Forgehome would swell in holy esteem.

[atomic dirge]

Shakra: Child Wielding Needle. What do you make of this huge, groaning structure?
Hornet: The scale of it all impresses me. If this is merely an outpost of the Citadel above, then their capital must be grand beyond measure.
Shakra: Yokkala... Perhaps so. They must have prized indeed the work done here, to build something so vast in such a dangerous place.

[terse warren]

Well yes we literally see a Weavenest there

[silver spire]

then why aren't there more settlements down there? surely the obvious answer would be to expand

rather than just have weaver absolom be experimenting in the weavenest

[latent sparrow]

It might just have been inconvenient

[atomic dirge]

void prob made it hard to do anything down there

[terse warren]

In the Abyss? Why would you ever want to live near the all-consuming substance?

[atomic dirge]

you trip on a pothole and fucking die

[limpid summit]

Look what happened to the retainers even with the giant lighthouse

It’s not super hospitable even for weavers

[atomic dirge]

Absolom or whoever made the nest in her name was probably just kinda coo coo crazy

[silver spire]

more power? surely they had the technology to harness it or at least the hubris to try and use the entire power of the citadel to colonize it

[latent sparrow]

It could have just been way too taboo for them to try that on a large scale

[slow olive]

What was the purpose of the weavenest in the abyss again

[silver spire]

after all, it is in the nature of the citadel to take over or at least influence areas around them, as evidenced by bilewater, sands of karak, etc.

[latent sparrow]

I think most people who know anything about void don’t want anything to do with it

[atomic dirge]

weavenests are from what i understand like,secret laboratory-type structures for weavers to hide and do research in

[silver spire]

yea but the thing is, we see almost NO mention of the abyss until act 3, which is pretty weird considering they had direct access to it

[atomic dirge]

so Absolom or whoever was down there was probably doing some research on void before shit fucked up

[scenic stirrup]

Snail shamans god!?

[latent sparrow]

Probably just means gms

[silver spire]

surely forge daughter or someone knew of what lay below the lava

[slow olive]

Smaller case g definitely just them throwing shade on gms

[atomic dirge]

Ballow said no one used that diving bell in ages

[latent sparrow]

That’s kind of hilarious actually

[atomic dirge]

so everyone who knew prob either died or became haunted

[abstract rivet]

oof

[silver spire]

oh true, which means that the citadel used to use the diving bell but eventually stopped due to haunting

[abstract rivet]

HK lore:
Pale King (a king who cares about his people) vs Radiance (evil control maniac god)

Silksong:
Weavers (shitty shady ass tribe) vs GMS (shitty ass god)

(and both of them hate their kingdoms people)

[atomic dirge]

we are not doing PK apologism here

[latent sparrow]

Did the pale king really care

yeah lmao I think he just wanted the status and followers

[slow olive]

Do yall think absolom or any weaver was trying to experiment with void to use on gms?

[abstract rivet]

I think he was just desperate

[abstract rivet]

i will because I flamed PK so much

[sinful nimbus]

PK was a good dude Hallownest was a prosperous kingdom

[atomic dirge]

likely

[abstract rivet]

only to figure our Weavers set up a whole torture chamber area for sinners

[latent sparrow]

I mean I guess there’s nothing super conclusive but pk gives me the vibe of someone who rules because it’s in his nature

[atomic dirge]

in weavenest atla the snare setter was made for that goal

[sinful nimbus]

Wyrms do it inherently but the motive doesn't really change much

[slow olive]

I mean credit to PK at least being his subject had the bonus of smarter brain

[latent sparrow]

To me it changes a bit in that it makes it harder to see it as something he did out of the goodness of his heart and more to satisfy his instincts. Although maybe his instincts are just to be a nice ruler lmao

[slow olive]

GMS seems to just want u to be a good daughter that does everything she wants u to

[abstract rivet]

pale king made a whole kingdom, made truce with enemy tribes (mantises, spiders) and tried to keep the kingdom somewhat stable and while he’s still aristocratic and prioritizes richies (city of tears first half and second half proves this) atleast he didnt make the kingdom a bummer place to live in

[latent sparrow]

Yeah that’s true

Like hallownest was kind of chill at one point I don’t think you can say the same for pharloom

[naive lake]

Imagine living in hallownest ad caling a buddy to go watch marissa sing

[abstract rivet]

Pharloom is a kingdom made with 3 sets of lies

[slow olive]

Pharlooms history doesn't even seem to have a chill point everything we know at this point is all toxic and red flags lol

[abstract rivet]

with 3 stages of shitty ass rule in citadel

[latent sparrow]

Yeah lmao

Like hallownest under pk before the infection is the best civilisation in hk universe to my knowledge

[abstract rivet]

yeah FromSoft would love to use Pharloom as a concept for their next soulslike game thats how shitty it is i’d call it

[sinful nimbus]

We too do noble deeds to satisfy our natural needs, humans are inherently inclined towards cooperation but that doesn't suddenly stop being good

[naive lake]

Imagine weavers just said "you 3, pharloom last eternal, sing your bars" and left

[sinful nimbus]

Also SS reveals higher beings generally don't get along which means PK was exceptionally chill to not only have diplomatic relations with other higher beings but even marry one

[abstract rivet]

He didn’t even fuck Greenpath entirely either

[slow olive]

PK even relents to herrah's demand despite her being just a regular weaver bug

[latent sparrow]

Haha yeah I suppose so, it’s just to me the pk’s other actions don’t give off the vibe of a benevolent guy you know

[abstract rivet]

Unlike Citadel who fucking dried out and killed more than 5 areas, Pale King just built some things in Greenpath

[slow olive]

Granted she was the queen of deepnest at the time

[latent sparrow]

Like in lore he rarely was seen outside his palace right so I don’t think he like loved doing charity in person or anything

[sinful nimbus]

The greenpath road was also fine by the Mosskin

[sinful nimbus]

He's just an introvert smh my head

[abstract rivet]

Citadel however, killed Coral Forest, Bilewater, Verdania, Deforested Greymoor

[slow olive]

I do agree that it seems less of benevolence and more of just his wyrm instincts

[latent sparrow]

pale king was just a shy cutie patootie

[abstract rivet]

There is probably more areas that citadel fucked up It just didnt come to my mind

Idk about Far Fields and Hunters March

[sinful nimbus]

Citadel is also engaging in mass slavery

[latent sparrow]

Yeah lmao

[abstract rivet]

until Karmelita became a grannie it seemd like the place was fine

[sinful nimbus]

Even before the haunting

[abstract rivet]

Underworks Area lmao

[latent sparrow]

Like is anything in hk other than like the vessels quite as grim as the whole work shall set you free stuff in the citadel

[sinful nimbus]

Not really

[abstract rivet]

I mean they did the mfs so bad i cant even recognize that theyre pilgrims

[sinful nimbus]

In terms of bad stuff in Hallownest there was maggot racism and a wealth divide in City of Tears

[latent sparrow]

Like pharloom is dark in a way that reflects the real world which makes it even more grim imo

[abstract rivet]

yeah maggots are lame tho

[latent sparrow]

LMAO

[abstract rivet]

And i dont think City of Tears for the brokies were a bummer place

[silver spire]

screw the maggots, they killed hegemol

[latent sparrow]

if you’re broke in hallownest go stab some rocks get your bag up

[sinful nimbus]

true...

That's just false knight though the other ones could be chill

[latent sparrow]

Did they kill him I figured they just stole the armour

[sinful nimbus]

Hegemol's armor is actually his shell

[naive lake]

tl;dr, citadel fucked everything

[slow olive]

This says more about hegemol if he got murked by a maggot

[silver spire]

hegemol's armor is literally his shell

[abstract rivet]

I mean whats a good use of a maggot if they dont do menial labour?

[latent sparrow]

oh that’s probably not pleasant to lose then

[abstract rivet]

Useless peasants they only have 1 hp anyway

[sinful nimbus]

The maggot says Hegemol was sleeping and he just took it off but maggots have trouble distinguishing between death and sleep (As seen in their dreamnail dialogue) so I'm inclined to think he was already dead

[latent sparrow]

How did bro get taken out by a maggot then LMAO

[silver spire]

bro he was sleeping 😭 , aint no way you think he gonna be defending himself while sleeping

[abstract rivet]

If they scratched their toes theyd be dead

[latent sparrow]

Yeah that makes more sense

[slow olive]

Oh dang this made it more tragic

[latent sparrow]

Who’s the biggest fraud in hk verse though

[abstract rivet]

weavers I just hate them

[latent sparrow]

Valid

[abstract rivet]

oh also probably conductors

[silver spire]

millabel

[latent sparrow]

Oh true

[sinful nimbus]

GMS 🥀

[latent sparrow]

LMAO realest answer

[silver spire]

she took me 20k geo 🥀

[latent sparrow]

True this boss is way too easy even though she’s fun

[sinful nimbus]

I like the boss

[naive lake]

knight and zote's simp

[abstract rivet]

The most chill person on the entire series however has to be Unn

I couldnt be non chalant if they fucked my area then fucked my creations

[latent sparrow]

True

[sinful nimbus]

Hunter:

Hunter tosses his journal filled with his deepest darkest thoughts at a random stranger he's super chill

[naive lake]

unn was too busy taking a nap

[sinful nimbus]

He's also a stoner

[latent sparrow]

Wait it’s probably like tiso huh

Tiso talked so much to get off screened

and when we finally saw it he only lost more aura

[abstract rivet]

Hunter killed his siblings

[sinful nimbus]

huh

[abstract rivet]

yeah tiso is the yapper

[latent sparrow]

Also what are your opinions on what gms does at the end of true ending

[silver spire]

real ones know the pain of radiating tiso in HOG

[abstract rivet]

I think theres a journal entry where he states he hunted his siblings

[latent sparrow]

Is that her willingly helping hornet? Or is hornet taking it from her forcefully

[sinful nimbus]

Bro thinks she's an Ori villain 🥀

[abstract rivet]

She only did it to save Lace

[sinful nimbus]

Willingly helping I believe

[silver spire]

bro had a blicky 😭

[sinful nimbus]

He says he used to have siblings and now hunts alone that's it

He did hunt his pet though

[latent sparrow]

I can hardly tell if gms even cares for lace or not

[abstract rivet]

GMS cares for Lace

[naive lake]

Ngl i imagine went "Bitch i'm saving your daughter, help."

[terse warren]

It's like the whole point of act 3

[abstract rivet]

The whole void haunting, void plague, etc just happened to keep lace alive

[naive lake]

and gms just "fuck you" and gaver the remaining silk

[latent sparrow]

I love the word with no dialogue from hornet

[abstract rivet]

Those screams you hear at act 3 is GMS fighting the void to save lace

[terse warren]

No, those are her dying

[abstract rivet]

She cares for Lace but is a obsessive parent and would see children more like possesions rather people

[latent sparrow]

Yeah that’s what I mean I suppose

[abstract rivet]

Not a really good parent either

[silver spire]

nope, its literally said that GMS struggles against the void to save the child

[latent sparrow]

Like she obviously wants lace but it’s harder to say if she cares for lace or something

[abstract rivet]

And lace probably never saw GMS in person alot

[naive lake]

Better a child spun mad than none

[terse warren]

@sinful nimbus I need the Death Throes quote

[abstract rivet]

But I think GMS hunted Hornet to get silk for Lace

[terse warren]

I mean yeah she was sleeping all the time

!wiki Mask Maker (Silksong)

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Mask_Maker_(Silksong)

Hollow Knight Wiki

Mask Maker (Silksong)

​ ​ ​ ​ For the Hollow Knight character, see Mask Maker (Hollow Knight).
Mask Maker is an NPC in Hollow Knight: Silksong. He provides lore on masks and on Pharloom's history.

Location

Mount Fay

Role

Miscellaneous

Tasks

Liquid Lacquer

Gender

Male

Singing

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/File:Mask_Maker_(Silksong)_Sing.ogg

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/File:Mask_Maker_(Silksong)_Sing_02.ogg

[naive lake]

gang are mask makers their own entities or are they like a tribe/clan

[terse warren]

Hornet: In our meeting, a mortal blow was dealt, but the monarch's desperate death throes now threaten to take this whole kingdom with her.

The screams are death throes

[silver spire]

"Then you have miscalculated, gravely. The white knight, she fell with the mother..."
Chapel Maid: Oh ho... The quakes, yes? We have felt their force, even here. So the mother resists the dark... to save the child?

[terse warren]

I'm not saying she's not trying to save Lace, I never said that

But Hornet, which is probably more knowledgeable in this situation, calls them death throes

[slow olive]

Could be an order like the pinstresses

Although they dont seem to be the same species

[idle veldt]

What dialogue does Kratt (or whatever the flea master's name was) give when you try to move him from Greymoor to Blasted Steps before beating the Last Judge? Because I heard you cant move the caravan before beating it

[slow olive]

And both makers are in areas where normal bugs cant even reach them

[latent sparrow]

Yeah I’m not 100% sure but I think it’s just like a profession, every bug needs a face I guess

[abstract rivet]

Mask Makers when they see mask destroyers

[slow olive]

The one in mount fay is even more secluded than the one in hallownest iirc

[latent sparrow]

Yeah it’s very out the way in ss

[slow olive]

Wont he stay with the caravan if last judge isnt defeated yet?

Oh you mean mooshka

[idle veldt]

Yeah I mean if you got the fleas required to move to Blasted Steps but havent beaten the Judge

Yeah Mooshka

[slow olive]

"We will camp here a time before moving onward. These moments of safety and calm must be treasured, rare as they are."

[idle veldt]

Ic

[slow olive]

From the wiki

[edgy barn]

Installed the godhome mod today and I just realized that First Sinner's arena during her fight (not before or after it) looks very similar to the beggining sections of the old heart memories.

One more evidence to the pile I guess.

[waxen turret]

||Anybody give me some info on how we got void ||?

[fierce narwhal]

could you be more specific?

[waxen turret]

Existence of void

Everbloom seems like a remedy prepared to fight void
Was it natural

[fierce narwhal]

well that's just stuff we dont really know

[atomic dirge]

i don't think it's something made specifically to counter void

i think it's just a natural resistence that flower has

[fierce narwhal]

void is super duper ancient i don't think we'll be able to get an answer on how it came to be

[waxen turret]

so everbloom is living species that adopted to avoid

Assuming void is natural

[fierce narwhal]

maybe...? again there's just little to no information about the everbloom and it's relation to void aside from the fact that it's connected to the pale beings, came from a serene land and can dispel the void

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet and knowledgeable in the same sentence

[graceful grail]

Guaranteed godhome DLC for silksongs bindings will be things like-

No claw line
No dash
No silk skills

[silk dirge]

nah it probably would be similar to hk

so like no tools, 4 hp, one binds worth of silk, default needle

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but some people already do no tools 😏

I bet you’ll be bound to using Hunter crest because the other crests are OP

[atomic dirge]

yknow i wonder

[subtle vector]

what did first sinner even do

[atomic dirge]

was anyone ever supposed to find the elevator to the cradle?

'cause the voice says they want to hear the three melodies, but the Vaultkeepers' law prevents anyone outside of Vaultkeepers from learning theirs

[atomic dirge]

found out the origin of weavers and GMS' lie

[graceful grail]

She rejected the idea of being GMS daughter.

[subtle vector]

why did First sinner get imprisoned while all the other ones died though

[atomic dirge]

she was imprisoned so others wouldn't find out

[subtle vector]

oh

[atomic dirge]

the other ones died way later

[graceful grail]

These are the kind of things you gotta keep quiet

[subtle vector]

why do we kill her though

[silk dirge]

no pilgrim was ever making it up

[graceful grail]

But IMO the Weaver‘s are her daughters because silk is how she would reproduce because she is made of it.

[subtle vector]

Weavers

[atomic dirge]

Weavers are not GMS' daughters, they're evolved Pharlids

GMS lied to them about them being her daughters and by such divine

GMS didn't CREATE Weavers

[fierce narwhal]

considering that we end the fight with the prompt to "accept" i dont think it was done maliciously. in my opinion i think it was more of a test of strength for hornet, and probably a way to move on and be free to an extent for first sinner

but that's just how i see it i may be wrong

[atomic dirge]

what does Absolution Denied mean btw

[graceful grail]

I am aware of this, but pharlids do not have silk made in their shells, it was a trait given by GMS.

[fierce narwhal]

basically a release of guilt or shame

or lack there of in this case

[subtle vector]

doesnt make them her daughters i feel

[fierce narwhal]

and also punishment aswell

[subtle vector]

shouldve had a little more dialogue

[graceful grail]

First sinners problem was that they weren’t divine.

Biologically they have GMS DNA in them because her silk was used to modify them.

Silk with they still generate

[fierce narwhal]

i can understand why they didn't tho i don't think she would've been a talkative type 😭

[fierce narwhal]

but thats like saying anyone with the infection is biologically related to the radiance i dont feel like this applies

[subtle vector]

Btw whats the lore for widow im still confused, just a weaver than stood by gms's side?

[atomic dirge]

yep

[edgy nebula]

weaver still loyal to gms, mutilated presumably by other wavers

[atomic dirge]

the last remaining first generation weaver

[fierce narwhal]

wheres this stated?

[atomic dirge]

there's a memory in the Cradle if you play the needolin

where Widow says "Of the first... the last..."

[silk dirge]

that one weaver in deepnest:

[graceful grail]

The radiance is a sickness of the mind, completely different.

[silk dirge]

what is up with that weaver btw

[subtle vector]

which

[silk dirge]

the one who you see leaving

[edgy barn]

That weaver is literally that meme with the elephant that says "address me"

[atomic dirge]

there's still some non-first generation weavers around it seems

[silk dirge]

i hope we meet that weaver in a dlc or smth

[atomic dirge]

the cradle says there's a "weaver in fourth part" in the city of steel

[fierce narwhal]

i think this is referring to gms herself tho, that she was the first and she'll remain the last

[atomic dirge]

huh

[silk dirge]

unless she somehow made it to pharloom and got killed or smth

[edgy barn]

There was

It got captured by the citadel.

[atomic dirge]

more importantly i think this means Herrah wasn't the only weaver to have a child

[edgy barn]

...the first what?

[subtle vector]

im clueless who is that i havent played hk in so long

[fierce narwhal]

i don't know really all of widows dialogue is very cryptic??

all the other lines in the memory are addressed to gms so i dont know why that also wouldn't be to her aswell

[nimble ocean]

How long ago did the weavers flee pharloom? Before the events of the game

[fierce narwhal]

and if widow is the weaver mentioned in the cage then she wouldn't be a first gen weaver at all, then again this cutscene also makes that theory difficult to prove

[edgy barn]

The weavers are reffered to as the "first children" and Widow is the last that remains in Pharloom. I think it would make more sense if it was refferring to that.

[heady thorn]

skarsinger has to be one of the strongest non pale beings

[subtle vector]

does gms ever speak

[edgy barn]

Only during the silk heart sequences

[fierce narwhal]

hmm ok i can see where you're coming from

[graceful grail]

Also, with that cut scene, were they playing their harps to keep GMS asleep? 🪉

[fierce narwhal]

that's what I'm wondering too

[graceful grail]

I think it was, but like all the bugs you play the needolin to, the stunning effect is only temporary.

[fierce narwhal]

id assume it is? and that the light is gms trying to wake up or contact the lulling weavers, the main one being widow, which then maybe causes her to stand with gms, which leads to her mutilation

[edgy barn]

I would like to comment in the way the two first lines parallel First Sinner. "Our mother... true... Our light divine..." VS "She called us daughters... called us divine... she lied"

[fierce narwhal]

ooo very good observation

[edgy barn]

The scene ends with the phrase "For her light... eternal... our song sustains". Considering this is Widow's memory, I think is more likely this is the weavers playing music for GMS back when they were still loyal to her.

[fierce narwhal]

could be true, but then again the only time music is mentioned with gms is when they're talking about putting her to sleep

[edgy barn]

But why would Widow refer to keeping her asleep with music as "sustaining her light"?

[fierce narwhal]

maybe in some roundabout way that claim is true? like maybe that was the motto to atleast keep her alive but forever asleep so that she could be sustained till they leave but this is pure conjecture

[edgy barn]

Widow very clearly wants GMS to be awake.

[fierce narwhal]

maybe not sustained in a sense of keeping the light alive but in the sense of keeping that light under control

[fierce narwhal]

yes that's why i feel like the whole scene where the light appears and she looks up with suspenseful music is the moment she turned on the protocol and wanted her to wake up, or maybe that line was from before she went rogue?

im just spitballing here at this point

[edgy barn]

That sounds rather contrived yeah.

I also wanted to mention that the needolin's description calls it a "Holy Weaver talent"

[fierce narwhal]

hmm you're right

im just confused by why the suspense in that scene if shes fully awake and kicking because it seems like the takeaway is that at that moment she wanted gms to wake up but why would she want that if she's already awake...?

[heady thorn]

would you rather be a random vessel from the pale king or a poor citizen in pharloom

[fierce narwhal]

poor citizen atp

[opaque pier]

Gms wanted to aurafarm

[edgy nebula]

well i can be a bellhart citizen

[fierce narwhal]

either i die in the abyss, die to hornet or die to nosk😭

[edgy nebula]

id rather be a bellhart or songclave citizen cause lowk atleast hope is around the horizon

[edgy nebula]

dawg dont know nosk is in pharloom too

[edgy barn]

Define "poor citizen"

[fierce narwhal]

ONLY IN STEEL SOUL SURELY

[edgy nebula]

well death is permanent as a citizen so technically…

[heady thorn]

like someone trying to get to the citadel (pretty sure people went to the citadel to have a better life and stuff)

[edgy nebula]

he gon getcha

[fierce narwhal]

NO PLEASE

[edgy nebula]

ngl being a stilkin probably wouldnt be too bad

yeah you gotta live in filth but there isnt much else bad about bilewater

[solar tapir]

Vessel ofc

[edgy nebula]

good housing too

[solar tapir]

in the end u chiil in the void with your brothers

[charred nimbus]

Can't wait for city of steel in 2037

🙏

[edgy nebula]

tc probably wont make another hk universe game considering all the fearless fox stuff, i hope they do eventually though

[fierce narwhal]

imagine pogoing the steel soul npcs there with them just saying their names over and over again

[charred nimbus]

i meant a DLC

[edgy nebula]

ah yeah

we can hope

[edgy barn]

Being a vessel would be worse 99% of cases. They have an insanely low survival rate. But if you managed to survive the abyss, escape and then get away from Hallownest, it would probably be better than living bound to the citadel (if you make it there).

[heady thorn]

i want a quirrel game

[solar tapir]

So prequirrel

[fierce narwhal]

in the end getting killed my hornet is a big possibility

by*

[charred nimbus]

What do we have about fearless fox right now? i haven't been following that

[edgy nebula]

just trademarks

[native vine]

make a dash for it rn cause shes not at home

[charred nimbus]

i mean, i will def play it, but really, another fox themed game

[edgy nebula]

im a bit sad they probably wont be doing anymore hk stuff, i loved the lore and gameplay ngl

but it is good to branch out

[charred nimbus]

Well

I really hope they don't announce hk 3 like we expect it, because i can't go throught what i went throught with silksong again

During the silksong first announcement i said to my cousin: "I can't die until Silksong releases"

[edgy nebula]

whats 7 more years? I can always start again, make another game

[charred nimbus]

Then a bunch of children in my family turned into almost teenagers and silksong launched and i tought about how the time i had to die before playing the game

[edgy barn]

That's what I say get away from hallownest.

[charred nimbus]

For now i'll be just glad to see what they're gonna cook with DLC's

[abstract rivet]

chill about a new game bro weve got dlcs to cover

frfr

I am gonna predict DLCs will have enough content that when the base game is taken out it can be a standalone game

[graceful grail]

Pantheon for each crest?

[shadow shale]

Wait I just realized Herrahs blurry face in the red memory and saying “the mother behind the mask” . Is that saying the masks themselves kept the dreamers permanently asleep and the blurriness is Hornets own fuzzy memory on what her mother’s true face looked like?

[charred nimbus]

Hornet's doesn't remember her mothers face

[graceful grail]

OK, guys for real, if you were born the same time as another bro, and you had a prophecy saying you would be together, would you roll with it?

[charred nimbus]

What?

[whole marsh]

Yeah, it’s blurry because she can’t remember her moms face. She spent a little bit of time with her right after being born. That’s her earliest memory in the red memory

[edgy barn]

Green Prince backstory

[charred nimbus]

Oh

I didn't know there was a prophecy

[shadow shale]

Yeah but that’s my point I thought the masks were their looks. That implies the masks are part of the dreamer seal

[graceful grail]

It’s only shown if you’ve been in the pale Stag

[edgy barn]

It's actually the second memory. The first is the one with the weavers.

[whole marsh]

Ah yeah that’s right

My B

Still a very early memory though

[charred nimbus]

I've been in the pale stag, but i just got the part that they hunted the stag and tought they had divine right to rule the verdanians, i think i lost the prophecy part

[edgy barn]

Did you beat pale stage and collect every single memory orb?

[graceful grail]

It’s two rooms below their arena to the left

[quick sinew]

Ifyou haven’t killed one of the ||jailers|| that take you to the ||slab|| before they despawn, do you lose their entry?

[charred nimbus]

i beated pale stag but i'm not sure if i missed one memory orb, but it's problable that i just missed the dialogue

[shadow shale]

My question is if the palestag is a higher being that birthed Verdania given pale is often only used in reference to pale beings

[edgy barn]

They share the same entry as the normal variant that appears in the slab.

[quick sinew]

good, thank you

[hexed latch]

Is there any reason to believe wisp thicket is associated with Grimm beyond red cult guys with fire

[edgy barn]

Unlikely. Palestag does not have the same pure white that confirmed pale beings have, it's clearly not as powerful as it was hunted and killed by the clover dancers, and some of the storyline's dialogue wouldn't make sense if Verdania had involvement with a pale being before GMS.

[charred nimbus]

I mean, i'm not sure, because i'm actually not gay, but like, if i were gay for a start, i think i would just roll with it tbh, it's not like we have many actual prophecies in the modern human world, but you know, if it says it says

[edgy barn]

No.

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but the prophecy also said if they got together, they would also bring a curse, so I guess they have no excuse.

[charred nimbus]

That's a weird prophecy, like, the prophecy said they WOULD be together, but there was a counter thing that would happened if they did? so in the end it was the destiny or just a choice?

[shadow shale]

Not really they are just a cult of arsons that were likely drawn to Pharloom because of the haunting and all the flammable silk

I’m unclear on their full purpose in the lore though

[graceful grail]

Me personally would be weirded out by it. If it was destiny, it’s OK, but if it was choice, they should’ve learned self control.

[shadow shale]

Let the gay bugs be gay

[charred nimbus]

The point is that they're more than just two gay bugs, they have one of the most interesting themes and narrative in the game, so I'm curious because I didn't know about this prophecy

[graceful grail]

But knowing it would cost their kingdom?

[edgy barn]

tbh I don't know if I would call it a prophesy.

"Two children born entwined, apart,
Two children marked to rule,
They danced, they sang, proved blades beyond,
But none forgot their birth,
For lovers born on beat exact shall be forever cursed"

[charred nimbus]

I mean, honestly kinda fuck the kingdom, but he also made his lover suffer from it

[edgy barn]

the table does not say that. It says that the "shall be forever cursed" which is very ambiguous.

[hexed latch]

do y'all have a favorite flashback or weaver memory

[charred nimbus]

The widow one

[shadow shale]

Also given Verdania seems to start regrowing after they both die now

[edgy barn]

As in the memory sequences or the ones you find with the needolin

[hexed latch]

I really enjoyed seeing hornet train with vespa

[hexed latch]

Either:)

[edgy barn]

I like both Widow's and First Sinner's because they parallel each other.

[charred nimbus]

Ye, it really doesn't seen much like a prophecy but rather something that is entwined into their culture, really some kind of supersticion, it seens like something that happened out of luck but they were luckily to write their supertitions to actual life

[graceful grail]

I mean, if you’re into that kind of stuff.

[shadow shale]

I heard an interesting theory that widow is the weaver that was captured from the city of steel that weaver was described being bound to service

Speaking of widow

[charred nimbus]

Widow seens more like a simp then a controlled bug tbh

[edgy barn]

That weaver is a 1/4 weaver while Widow is first generation. Her dialogue also wouldn't make much sense if she was a weaver that fled or the descendant of one that did.

[shadow shale]

Where is it said widow is first generation

Because part of the issue is why if they want weaver silk would they render a weaver useless from producing silk it doesn’t make sense

[rain gate]

the fact that hornet points out she looks like a weaver

[hexed latch]

so what's up with widows head btw? why does she not have a circular one like the rest

[shadow shale]

Unless someone else removed widows shell and bound her silk

[shadow shale]

Her shell was forcibly removed

[charred nimbus]

Widow had her mask removed

[rain gate]

theres another theory that she was one of the other slab prisoners

[shadow shale]

Which in turns prevents her from producing silk she needs silk manually lodged inside of her with pins running down her back

[graceful grail]

She has a cloth over her head, I believe

[edgy barn]

She calls herself the last of the first in the cradle memory. She also calls Hornet "the spawn of those who dared to flee" which would be rather strange writing if she herself was just that.

[edgy barn]

Her mask was forcibly removed.

[shadow shale]

Ok looking like a weaver doesn’t mean first generation imho. Herrah apparently is full weaver and doesn’t look identical to every other weaver

[graceful grail]

Pretty sure she has a cloth over whatever was underneath her mask

[shadow shale]

Ok that makes sense

[edgy barn]

that too.

[charred nimbus]

The cloth is to cover what remains after her mask was removed

[graceful grail]

All the Weavers of hollownest have adapted to their environment.

Saving a few

[shadow shale]

It doesn’t explain why if they want silk they rendered the one loyal weaver they have useless for that

[edgy barn]

Who says it was GMS? It could have been the other weavers as a punishment for being loyal to the pale monarch.

[shadow shale]

Fair

[charred nimbus]

Guys

I'm worried about my friend, he's watching too much tiktok silksong theories

yesterday he messaged me on discord saying that Grimm was heavily implied to being a weaver

[meager drum]

whats the lore reason that my menu styles keep getting deleted? does hornet have memory loss?

[charred nimbus]

I had no idea that could happen

could be a mod you're using

[meager drum]

as far as im aware its only on xbox for pc

[meager drum]

I dont have any mods

[charred nimbus]

You mean the Xbox app? i mean... i didn't play Silksong on the Xbox app but they kinda messed another game i was playing, so...

[graceful grail]

No, he just has a scuttle brace from twelth architect…

[meager drum]

let me guess, a different metroidvania’s save file?

[charred nimbus]

Not quite, Rain world, i had a DLC for Rain world installed but the game just didn't recognize it despite everthing i tried, then i discovered that the Xbox app was installing the DLC in a wrong way

Xbox app was installing the DLC in another folder instead of IN the game, i had to put manually every file inside the respective file of the base game

And now i can't change to vanilla

[meager drum]

I was guessing nine sols because they had an issue where your save file just gets deleted but only on xbox for pc

[charred nimbus]

I think they just don't know how to make a game work apparently, but anyway

[meager drum]

a shame that I’m addicted to their achievements system

[charred nimbus]

Yeah, that's a extremely good point

[meager drum]

I wish we saw more window

[charred nimbus]

I guess i'm bound to lose in games anyway, because i actually just care for things that no other person from the playerbase actually cares about

One of my favorite NPC's in the game, and that i wish i could see more of it

It's the Huntress and Runt

I know i'll never hear from then again

[subtle vector]

(who is runt)

[charred nimbus]

He's huntress child, you find him if you don't complete Broodfeast before act 3

[dire sinew]

what is rhe name of the guy who was hanging from the ceiling who said the weak should serve the strong

[subtle vector]

wow

[charred nimbus]

Styx

[dire sinew]

do i get to meet him again

[subtle vector]

Thats actually so neat

[charred nimbus]

Yeah, and you should also visit him on steel soul 🙂

[dire sinew]

oh this is lore sorry for disrupting

[hexed latch]

I'm not sure if I completely understand, is the game implying that GMS was holding the void back from taking over pharloom with her silk? Or did we the player summon the void by using the needolin and snare

[charred nimbus]

GMS was holding the void because of Lace, and that was what was destroying Pharloom

[hexed latch]

I mean in the act 2 finale tbc

[blissful harbor]

the latter, hornet summoned it with the snare

[charred nimbus]

The snare trap said to GMS: "You're going to the void", and then she was in the void with Lace and went mad over it

[vestal swan]

The snare spell summoned the void from the bottom of pharloom, it would have worked but she grabbed hornet and lace decided to save hornet, and so GMS got a second wind trying to protect her kid because lace got dragged in too

[hexed latch]

🫡 thanks gang

[worthy veldt]

Idk if this qualifies as lore, but what’s with all the bells everywhere?

[vestal swan]

Besides the kingdom being obsessed with and using magic and music in tandem we don't have a solid answer

A few people have theorized that a bunch of the bells were used when they sealed up GMS

Like the absurd amount of bells that fill up the bellway just don't really have an answer

[spark valve]

they probably started as part of the citadel's system of keeping gms sealed but have become more symbolic with songshrines now serving as checkpoints for pilgrims where they have to ring all of them to access the citadel

[worthy veldt]

What do bells have to do with sealing her?

[spark valve]

(real answer is probably a story change and they used to be more important but then they removed whatever it was they did but didn't just remove them from progression entirely)

[spark valve]

music is used to keep her asleep

the bellways and shrines are sort of just there without much clear reason

[lean temple]

Isn't it mentioned the bell shrines also help ward off the Haunting. I think there's something on that in Songclave.
Edit: Well caretaker says they basically call out to the Pilgrims. I'll check for anything else.

[silk dirge]

im very curious what was up with the tuning forks

im like very curious about cut content now that ive thought about the final silksong steam badge bc it just doesnt make any sense

-if its cut content then why is it a steam badge, why not make the steam badge something thats in game
-if its specifically for the steam badge, then why? there is no rune harp steam badge so they couldve easily made that and made everbloom the final steam badge

it feels like we are missing something

or im looking too deep into things

top 10 unsolved mysteries in history

its especially weird to me that its not everbloom since void heart was the foil for hk and everbloom is the equivalent of that

[lean temple]

It looks like white cloaked Hornet?

Weird

[silk dirge]

apparently theres a cut achievement for getting all mementos with a very similar design

[abstract rivet]

I am still baffled over this but how the fuck does Lace and Hornet communicate in The Abyss, is that even the real Lace

She is real lace but like

Idk this is some blackmagic

[frosty gate]

Well, this is a longshot but

Nothing stops Lace from projecting her Silk right?

I mean Phantom was doing it

[silk dirge]

WAIT THIS IS NEW WTF IS THAT

thats fucked up

[frosty gate]

And they don't seem to need to be focused on doing it

[silk dirge]

you straight ripped it out of their bodies 😭

[edgy nebula]

theyre cut heart ripping animations, replaced by the cutscenes

[silk dirge]

thats crazy

[covert terrace]

Pretty sure there’s a couple lines about gms protecting lace in the abyss somehow.

[edgy nebula]

yes bro you do that ingame already

[silk dirge]

not in that manner

here you physically like cut it out 😭

in game you kill them and then their heart appears nicely for you to take outside

[frosty gate]

Projection probably

[abstract rivet]

woah team cherry when they dont take the chill pills are smth else fr

[charred nimbus]

I wish that achievement wasn't cut out, even if it's hard it's not like we don't have a achievement for beating 100% of the game without dying, I wish that we actually got something for completing all mementos...

[silk dirge]

yeah same

[charred nimbus]

I understand that bosses don't give rewards, they're cool,BUT NOT A SINGLE NEW DIALOGUE FROM GETTING ALL MEMENTOS?

That's fucked up

[abstract rivet]

this is a path of pain situation

[silk dirge]

ok wtf is up with this

thats the second cut icon i was thinking of earlier

[abstract rivet]

There are way too much cut content, this leads me to believe theyre planning smth big for a dlc

[silk dirge]

yeah why would they use a very similar design for a cut quest icon for the last steam badge

[frosty gate]

I would agree, but HK had whole areas cut and they were not seen in DLCs

[charred nimbus]

Path of pain gives lore tho, despite all mementos giving some kind of lore by themselves,there is actually no single reward for getting all of then

[worthy veldt]

They really need to make that an achievement or percent. You can 100% the game while missing a lot currently

[silk dirge]

whenever i get doubtful about wtf this means i remember team cherry purposely cut out rune harps from steam badges and made everbloom not the final one so this could be the final one

this has to mean something

[abstract rivet]

HK had Bone Forest and The Marrow and somewhat Deep Docks is pretty much a reincarnation of it

Unless youre telling me theres a third game coral forest will not be cut lol

[frosty gate]

After 7 years

[charred nimbus]

Coral forest could also appear in a DLC

[abstract rivet]

you gotta trust me on this one, coral forest and etc is getting added it has to be

[charred nimbus]

You guys are forgeting we still have no DLC for silksong

[abstract rivet]

Khann has a gate of some kind next to him

[worthy veldt]

Give it a decade

[abstract rivet]

give or take 1 years for first dlc

[median arrow]

Coral forest is possible. Although

Not sure what they would add besides the steel dude for bosses.

[silk dirge]

tbh i feel like it is possible act 3 is somehow incomplete or smth like that just because of that one icon

[frosty gate]

I mean, I agree we are probably getting Coral Gorge DLC, probably a DLC about Pharloom's prime

[charred nimbus]

I mean, the game is pretty big so i understand, but getting all mementos and not getting anything for it it's lame

[frosty gate]

Before, you know, *GMS

[silk dirge]

that one icon is going to keep me awake at night

what the actual fuck does it mean

[silver spire]

which?

[silk dirge]

the final steam badge

[silver spire]

probs jsut a cool design or smth

[charred nimbus]

The one that costs 100 Reais to get 😭

[worthy veldt]

What’s a badge

[charred nimbus]

The thing is that it's a design used for a cut achievment

[silk dirge]

thats what i would think but they left out one relic(rune harp) when they simply couldve left that as a badge and made everbloom the final one

matching up with hk where void heart was the final one

[charred nimbus]

It's something that you can get on steam that gives you levels, you gain cards while playing it but you need to buy or trade more cards to craft the badge

You can also display the badge on your profile

[worthy veldt]

Is it earned or is it merch

[silk dirge]

anyways there is a cut flea memento and flea spirit and i think its a pretty good guess these were an early version of the seth questline

[charred nimbus]

Every game gives you like 4 cards if you play it for a time, but like silksong, you need like 12 cards to craft a badge, so you can buy it on the steam market or trade it with your friends who play the game

you buy it with real money btw

[abstract rivet]

act 3 definetly feels incomplete in some ways

[silk dirge]

also most interesting of all there is no cut wish to go with the cut icon

[worthy veldt]

How? Lore-wise?

[silk dirge]

combined with the fact there is missing backer content something is definitely going on here

[abstract rivet]

i think the best speculations we can do for a dlc is memory dlc and city of steel

[abstract rivet]

It defo gives me the feeling it is, its either incomplete or rushed

its peak but yk

[silk dirge]

yeah

i like act 3 but i see what you mean

[abstract rivet]

i mean yall gotta remember HK was a rushed game too lol

[silk dirge]

here it doesnt make sense for them to rush tho

they had all the money they needed to keep going

[abstract rivet]

I mean maybe they took alot of their ideas and wanted to rework it a lil

[silk dirge]

yeah possibly

[charred nimbus]

City of steel could also be included in the memory DLC, you could enter city of steel via an NPC, possibly Zi if Team cherry is masochistc enought to lock the city of steel in Steel soul mode if it's in the memory DLC

[abstract rivet]

they didnt give a incomplete product the final section of the game just needs a bit more work

[silk dirge]

yeah

[silver spire]

new here's the real lore question

does hornet say garama or ganana

[charred nimbus]

Guaraná.

[silk dirge]

garama

[abstract rivet]

they wouldnt do us dirty to lock it behind steel soul

Cradle Texts mention City of Steel it has to be in the classic game

[worthy veldt]

Why she no say Shaw

[abstract rivet]

she matured alot

[worthy veldt]

Or git gud

[abstract rivet]

the most logicsl explanation for that is shes a unc now

[lilac monolith]

just like her silk abilies, she forget it when she was locked up

in a future dlc we'll go around pharloom binding with weavers to unlock different taunts

[silver spire]

she was already an unc for quite abit in hallownest

[charred nimbus]

i would actually feel betrayed if the City of steel wouldn't be part of Steel soul, but i understand that's only logic wise and that would suck overral

[worthy veldt]

Huh

[frosty gate]

Third game trust

[tall kayak]

When does silksong take place

[lilac monolith]

probably decades after hk

considering how bugs refer to her as old, and that her voice has deepened

[tall kayak]

So hornet has just been chilling

[lilac monolith]

yuh

doing garden work and so forth

[tall kayak]

So just living a normal life

That's cool to know

Thanks

[lilac monolith]

likely

[terse warren]

She already was older than Elderbug

The voice is the only real evidence for it taking place a long time after and honestly ehhhhh not the best evidence

[frosty gate]

Now that I think about, Hornet stayed back in Hallownest, she didn't leave
So she might've been fixing things

[terse warren]

I prefer the indescript amount of time approach

[terse warren]

There isn't much left to fix

[silk dirge]

it could just be the voice actor aging

[terse warren]

I'm pretty sure the voice actor actually full on changed

[frosty gate]

The structure of the place is still there, they could rebuild imo

[terse warren]

Like the only people from Hallownest are Emilitia, Elderbug, the Nailmasters and Sly

[frosty gate]

Elderbug isn't actually from Hallownest

[terse warren]

Everyone else is just wandering or leaves or dies

[frosty gate]

Fuck it, don't give Emilitia the pleasure of getting her city back

[lilac monolith]

unless hornet took a menderbug course before we uhmm....., then i don't think she'd be that good at fixing stff

[terse warren]

? The guy talks about being born after the stag stations were closed how is he not from Hallownest

Are you thinking of Zote? Or Cloth? Or Tiso?

[sinful nimbus]

He's too unbased and weak to be from Hallownest

[lilac monolith]

is zote not from hallownest?

[foggy fractal]

for who

[frosty gate]

Before

Elderbug when opening the Station:

"I never thought I'd see such a thing. The Stag Station has opened! That building lay silent since before even my time."

"Oh, I've heard the tales of the glorious lines. A web of tunnels running all through the kingdom. Not that I'll be travelling them, mind you!"

He's from Dirtmouth after Hallownest fell

[lilac monolith]

a web?! that's a weaver refernce

[terse warren]

It's still part of Hallownest

[terse warren]

Hornet

[terse warren]

No

[foggy fractal]

no its the same one

[terse warren]

Uh

I was fed misinformation then

[foggy fractal]

was makoto koji and is still makoto koji

[lilac monolith]

that honestly makes sense! he has the brain of someone who was born in the wasteland, outside of wyrmal consciousness

[sinful nimbus]

Its slightly surprising that Amelia Jones didn't return as a vocalist

Must be DLC

[frosty gate]

I guess so, but he doesn't know anything about actual Hallownest

[sinful nimbus]

How it feels to hear the City of Tears vocals halfway through the City of Steel theme

[silk dirge]

i know a few people thought she was karmelitas singer

[sinful nimbus]

No that's a different vocalist but also very talented

[silk dirge]

yeah ik im just saying

they sounded similar

[lilac monolith]

it'd probably have a dark, gong-like theme to fit the dark personalities the masters and those people seem to have

[terse warren]

City of Stears when

[silk dirge]

i do wonder if the mystery icon has something to do with city of steel

[lilac monolith]

city of stairs! just a giant stairway

[frosty gate]

City of Silks

[sinful nimbus]

The heck is the mystery icon

[terse warren]

The steam one? You're overthinking it

It's literally just a quest icon

[silk dirge]

the fact its unused tho bugs me

[silk dirge]

this

like the fact they couldve just made everbloom the foil like void heart was in hk and didnt