sk-lore

[terse warren]

!wiki Grindle

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Grindle

Hollow Knight Wiki

Grindle

Grindle is a thief and a Merchant who appears in Hollow Knight: Silksong. He is found in multiple locations, but eventually settles in the Blasted Steps and exchanges various goods for Rosaries.

Location

Various

Role

Merchant

Gender

Male

Singing

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/File:Grindle_Sing.ogg

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/File:Grindle_Sing_02.ogg

[sinful nimbus]

The WOKE MOB has STOLEN the ROYAL WE

[vestal swan]

Also it's really funny the snitch badge or whatever it's called makes them not attack you on sight but you can one shot them with a spell

[sinful nimbus]

Does he know

[fair axle]

Do you mean the prison flies she wants genocided??

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[fair axle]

Okay but they kidnap and kill people for a living and clearly don’t just do those two things

[fossil tendon]

God damn I can’t believe I’m playing a racist

[terse warren]

They're slaves

[sinful nimbus]

"It isn't racist because the slaves really are inherently evil" thanks for your contribution to the discussion dude

[fair axle]

They undressed hornet and the first sinner and locked them up for what they thought was forever

[terse warren]

Nice

[sinful nimbus]

You do realize they are possessed and slaves right

[fossil tendon]

Well to be fair there’s reason to hate someone if those are also reasons

[fair axle]

I feel like the reason wasn’t what they are but the things they do tho

[sinful nimbus]

But she wants the entire species to die

[terse warren]

Half of this is a lie, the other half doesn't matter because Hornet writes those things even if she doesn't get kidnapped

[fossil tendon]

Oh nvm Hornet super racist

[sinful nimbus]

That's genocide and obviously messed up and "Individuals have done bad things" isn't an excuse

[fair axle]

Oh that is worse LMAO

[sacred heath]

listen there’s really no way to spin it the slab is a major blunder on TC’s part

[fair axle]

Whatever.. morally ambiguous lesbian bug mc..

[midnight reef]

I thought the Slab was really cool

[fossil tendon]

Blunder in what regard

[terse warren]

Silksong is a major blunder on TC's part

[midnight reef]

Especially the escape sequence, also being one of the few times we hear Hornets theme

[vestal swan]

Wrong game for a lesbian main character

[fossil tendon]

This game is certifiably not a blunder

[sinful nimbus]

Even ignoring that its still super weird to argue that ethnic cleansing is justified if the people you are killing did a bad thing

[terse warren]

Well yes of course

[sacred heath]

the entries for the flies.
like nothing else in the game comes close to hornet’s hatred of the flies I’m convinced that’s a genuine error on TC’s part

[terse warren]

Shakra and Hornet surely

[sinful nimbus]

yeah she's obviously not supposed to be racist

[vestal swan]

Yeah I'm sure hornet loves being called a child by someone that could be her great descendant

[midnight reef]

Also, I do kinda wonder how much of Silksongs music is diagetic
The dies irae motif is, and the choral chambers almost certainly is

[fossil tendon]

Is there reason to be discovered elsewhere for hornet’s vehement hatred towards the flies

Maybe a dumb question but is Hornet a Hornet

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think any of the citadel music is diegetic

The Citadel has basically gone silent

[fair axle]

Honestly 😭😭

[simple hedge]

Hornet is a spider

[sacred heath]

okay you smug piece of shit
you talk about this so much how about you fucking DO something about it

[fair axle]

Clearly not

[midnight reef]

You can literally find a recording of the Choral Chambers somewhere, I forgot exactly where

[sinful nimbus]

Vro what

You want me to change the journal entries?

[fair axle]

How about you go kill hornet

[midnight reef]

But it's a training tape of it

[fair axle]

In real life

[sinful nimbus]

Oh the psalm cylinders are diegetic but that doesn't mean Hornet can always hear it

[terse warren]

I mean... She doesn't tell her to stop and Shakes does stop once she learns Hornet's name

Also she is the only character ever that Hornet outright calls a friend "one I am glad to be able to call friend"

[vestal swan]

Yeah my favorite musical track, how to surgery for dummies 101

[sinful nimbus]

Perfect for relaxing in your spa

[fair axle]

Sorry for explicit message ill stop

[midnight reef]

For large parts of the Choral chambers she probably can though, the Citidel of one big ass music box

[sinful nimbus]

A silent one

[fair axle]

Gulp

[sinful nimbus]

Citadel mostly stopped playing music because of the haunting

[midnight reef]

Then you wake it up, did you miss the start of act 2??

[sacred heath]

go tell TC this aspect of their game is really fucked up and they should change it
I’m serious. Leave a review. Punk them on social media. Make a YouTube video, i don’t know
It’s a mistake like no other on the game that needs to be fixed, and unlike everything else you seem to see as a mistake I imagine it wouldn’t take much work to FIX it

[sinful nimbus]

Dude what

[midnight reef]

The music itself is silent until you encounter Lace in the Citidel

[sinful nimbus]

I can't voice criticism because I'm not actively trying to change the game 🥴

[terse warren]

I don't see how encountering Lace caused the music to start lol

[midnight reef]

Then, as the bugs are haunted, the music box starts once more, the members of it's choirs revived

[vestal swan]

Leaving a review or a bug report that you don't think it fits the game is one thing but why are you raging at somebody else for it

[sinful nimbus]

Its still noted to be silent by NPCs

[vestal swan]

Silk resonates with music, she's a walking Bluetooth speaker

[terse warren]

😭

[sinful nimbus]

GMS obviously wouldn't want to wake up the Citadel since its her music-powered cage

[terse warren]

This actually makes no sense

GMS actively wants to stop the song 🥴

[sinful nimbus]

Snail

[vestal swan]

Beats by lace

[terse warren]

The only fanservice that actually got foreshadowed

[vestal swan]

I figured it out the last minute too

[terse warren]

I figured it out pretty early

Hornet literally has a line where she asks Caretaker why he hides his true identity

And the guy is terribly Snail Shaman shaped

[blissful harbor]

chapel maid always gave shaman vibes to me, even in the early trailers
thst stick was always suspicious

[sinful nimbus]

I was in denial...

[vestal swan]

I didn't think that meant he was a snail, I thought maybe it was a weaver offspring or something like a higher being in hiding

[sacred heath]

same here

[terse warren]

Imo they're not a bad addition

[sinful nimbus]

I knew if they were shamans I would have to stop shipping Churchkeeper and the Caretaker so I put my fingers in my ears and tried to ignore it

[terse warren]

Sure then being related to Void is a retcon but their presence is fine

[terse warren]

They already talked about them being related even before that smh

[vestal swan]

Okay so if star makes a ship it's automatically wrong and all of my crack pots come true, so anyway about that liquid Terminator

[terse warren]

Star can't even read anymore

[sinful nimbus]

Do you mean lacquer

[terse warren]

This means Fourth Encore will be real

[vestal swan]

Indeed

I mean we still have the other like five robots

[sinful nimbus]

No recurring element from HK is bad in and of itself

[terse warren]

Hornet

[sinful nimbus]

I take issue with the fact that there are so many

[vestal swan]

Yeah looking at it in a broad scope and realizing how many things are kind of mirrored is lame

[terse warren]

Lifeblood should've been cut

[sinful nimbus]

Its exacerbated by retcons too

[silver spire]

god forbid a sequel stay consistent with the original amirite

[vestal swan]

Lifeblood should not have been turned into blue infection I'm refusing to believe it works that way

[sinful nimbus]

Why are you going to add elements from the previous game if you have midas touch but for retcons

[terse warren]

I fully agree

[vestal swan]

Staying consistent is not the same as walking the same path with different characters

[hallow sail]

Guys am I going crazy but there's this one ending in silksong where silk descends slowly or some shit, how the fuck do you eve get that

[blissful harbor]

i fully believe the fandom gave them the idea

[terse warren]

But like it definitely does work like that and TC just hates originality

[silver spire]

its cut

[hallow sail]

How did people find it??

[vestal swan]

That's what happens when you replace grandmother silk, it's the standard ending where you absorb her

[terse warren]

This is the peak writing I'm here for

[vestal swan]

Wait what

Cut ending?

[terse warren]

"Midas touch for retcons"

[hallow sail]

When you absorb her silk goes down violently, there's one where it goes down slowly

[vestal swan]

Midas did not ruin silk song do not slander my cat

[terse warren]

Yeah there's a cut ending in the files, GMS binding hornet rather than the opposite it seems

[silver spire]

its the one where you wait too long to bind

[vestal swan]

Ah

So it's basically just losing the fight at the last second because you're stupid

[hallow sail]

Its no longer available?

[vestal swan]

It was never in the game to be seen

[latent sparrow]

Is it really an infection though? I thought the scientist guy just cultivated it too much in that one area

[hallow sail]

Where have people gotten it

[midnight reef]

That's a cut ending where GMS binds you to herself

[silver spire]

it is an infection

[terse warren]

Plasmidas Journal entry

[sinful nimbus]

No one is saying its bad because its consistent with the original, consistency wasn't even in question, but while we're at it the game is very inconsistent with the first one and has a million retcons

[silver spire]

that scientist got overtaken

[midnight reef]

It's still in the game files

[vestal swan]

That's what I'm leaning towards but hornet dialogue apparently makes it seem like hollownest experienced the same shit

[hallow sail]

Can I get it if I wanted to?

[terse warren]

"Makes it seem" straight up says so

[sacred heath]

it really only gets infection levels of bad once the void gets unleashed

[vestal swan]

Shhhhhhh

[midnight reef]

It's possible that it gets used down the road, but it probably got replaced by the Cursed ending

[terse warren]

The Nile is a river in Egypt

[vestal swan]

I mean hollow Knight had two bad and two good endings, now we have two bad endings one good ending and one halfway bad ending because you can keep playing the game

[midnight reef]

Yeah

[sinful nimbus]

What if Khezu is the reason the Citadel is silent

[vestal swan]

I believe it, he yells enough for everybody

[latent sparrow]

It’s still not clear to me if it’s really an infection from those entries though, it certainly mutated the creatures but I figured they just consumed too much of it. I mean whether you consider that an infection is kind of semantic but still it’s not like the radiance

[midnight reef]

Im torn as to what I want in Silksong DLC, if I want more Act 1/2 content, or more act 3 content
Because on the one hand, more stuff to do before GMS starts whining instead of dying
But on the other hand- Red Coral Gorge please

[terse warren]

Act 4

[midnight reef]

I'm still pissed that the coral gorge got nuked into a stupid battle tower

[vestal swan]

The battle tower was dope as fuck but yeah that did suck

[slow olive]

Iirc zylotol and his assistant were basically seeding the wormways with the stuff

[sinful nimbus]

Act 3 could use a lot more fleshing out

[slow olive]

Could be why it spread so much in act 3

[latent sparrow]

A post game would be really fun it makes me sad that bellhart is sad in act 3

[slow olive]

And started affecting the worms

[vestal swan]

Actually they could probably fix pharloom really easy if they woke up all the other big robots

[latent sparrow]

Yeah I haven’t seen anything that implies it’s a proper infection

[sinful nimbus]

In terms of exploration Act 3 has like an expanded Far Fields

[latent sparrow]

It seems kind of more like a “scientist over uses unknown element” or something

[hollow fog]

why didn't GMS like phantom?

[midnight reef]

Silksong also just has a ton of funny cut content
Like the tarantula fast travel between BellHart and Bone Bottom

[sinful nimbus]

"There is an echo also of other infections I have witnessed. I wonder at the meaning of it all... or if I am perhaps imagining similarities where there are none."

Hornet also saw plasmified creatures in Hallownest back when the substance was more prevalent

So it seems it just takes over creatures if there's enough of it

[latent sparrow]

yeah I mean that we knew from hollow knight right

[placid zodiac]

Do guys think zemere was referencing a place further then pharloom when talking about the ever bloom we don’t see the flower anywhere in pharlooom

[sinful nimbus]

We did not

[midnight reef]

I'm just excited to see where TC adds going forwards, I hope Pharloom Bay and the Red Coral Gorge are a part of it though

Whoops, didn't mean to reply

[sinful nimbus]

Yes, Pharloom also doesn't have her dialect

[slow olive]

Phantom was too frail as a silk construct or smth

[sacred heath]

we knew it was taboo
we knew it was like a drug that made you healthier
we DIDN’T know it was capable of corrupting bugs to that extent (though a lot of people speculated it could)

[sinful nimbus]

I heavily doubt it was the intention back when HK released because the enemies in and near Joni's Repose are perfectly fine

[latent sparrow]

Secret other option where plasmium just isn’t the same thing as lifeblood

[sinful nimbus]

It is

[placid zodiac]

Lifeblood/plasmium kinda works similar to the infection

[midnight reef]

It's also referred to as lifeblood in the file, afaik

Which isn't cannon, just

[terse warren]

Grey Memento says time will bring life anew

[midnight reef]

Also rip The Aspids, Lost Verdania is cool but I wanted more

[sinful nimbus]

Its also called "liquid lifeseed"

[sacred heath]

xylotol outright calls it “blood”

it’s lifeblood

[sinful nimbus]

Learning Lost Verdania was a dream with nothing in it shattered my heart into a million pieces

[midnight reef]

Its such a pretty place though

[sinful nimbus]

That makes it hurt more

[placid zodiac]

Hornet also mentions she’s seen plasmium before

[midnight reef]

A worthwhile time, I just want more

[whole holly]

maybe it can be regrown

[sinful nimbus]

Its just not the same

[midnight reef]

It starts to regrow somewhat after you get the conjoined heart

[sinful nimbus]

imo its kinda obvious Act 3 is the "Stuff we couldn't organically integrate into the game but we don't want to cut" zone

[midnight reef]

Least in the beta branch, idk if that's made it to the full branch

[placid zodiac]

Hornet can just see in dark areas do you think it’s a weaver thing or she canonically emits light

[midnight reef]

I'm kinda sad they didn't find a way to bring Seth into Act 1/2

But Seth is just a cool fight anyways

[sinful nimbus]

You can sequence break to fight him there

[pseudo bolt]

Can’t you fight Seth in act 2?

[midnight reef]

Yeah I'm sure that's fully possible

But it's certainly unintended

[sinful nimbus]

How do you think they used the drifter's cloak in that one prerelease gif

They knew all along...

[sacred heath]

which one

[sinful nimbus]

The one with seth

[midnight reef]

That was also from a build where the shellwood didn't get cut off from Nyleth's Shrine by the Underworks

I also hope they find a way to uh, actual include the steel bugs beyond the one in Steel Soul

[sinful nimbus]

They are foreshadowed

[midnight reef]

I think some still exist in the files?

[sinful nimbus]

Sharpe will be the best fight in the franchise 🗣️

[midnight reef]

Along with full boss-fight sprites of Vespa

[terse warren]

@sinful nimbus totally a real screenshot

[sinful nimbus]

😭

[terse warren]

(not my work I found it on Reddit)

[sinful nimbus]

This would be funny if it wasn't an E1331 post

[terse warren]

Was this instinct or

[sinful nimbus]

I checked

[terse warren]

Damn

[midnight reef]

Oh, random question

We see in the opening cinematic the bugs who captured Hornet going from the Blasted Steps into the Shellwood

[hushed yoke]

anyone know whats going on with the wind in the western areas of pharloom?

i feel i may be missing something with the citadel's structure and how its impacting the places around it i know on the eastern side, they blocked off most of the water's flow and are exhausting their pollution into it. and on the western side the red coral dudes seemingly got cut off from the source of water entirely, leading to their area and the blasted steps getting totally dried up?

but then i have no clue whats going on with mount fay and thats what im curious about. where is that wind coming from? the harsh winds blowing through the blasted steps goes west to east, and the wind on the surface seems too gentle to be related, and for that matter its also going west to east.

meanwhile mount fay's "stormward side" (according to pinstress) faces the east. if the wind was coming from the west like the winds how it is for everywhere else, then why would the eastern face be the the stormward side? of course its self evident why, throughout most of mount fay, the wind blows from east to west for some reason. i'm inclined to believe team cherry was conscious about this, because the wind keeps changing angle and strength depending on location, falling directly downward only in the bottom right starting area, never from west to east, and blows fiercely from east to west near the peak.

of course all of this could probably be explained by the shape of the caverns on the z axis leading to wind being funneled in different ways, and i can accept that. but i cant help but think it may be due to the citadel? hell if it werent for the weavers having history in mount fay and showing they struggled with its climate, i'd think they'd have caused the cold itself lmfao. but nah

i guess in particular i just wanna understand what the purpose of the ventilation in the cradle is for, and if that may be the cause of the wind on mount fay?

all this being said, i suppose wind on the top of the slab kinda deconfirms my suspicions on the wind direction mattering, since it softly flows from west to east despite literally being in the same air region as upper mount fay lol

[hushed yoke]

sorry for cutting off your question

[midnight reef]

why? It seems like it might've been a leftover from older builds when that passage was right at the entrance of the Citadel?

[sinful nimbus]

50 bucks says its Fayforns fault

[midnight reef]

Dw

[sinful nimbus]

The ventilation of the cradle is the steam exhausts right?

The Citadel is steam powered so that tracks

[sinful nimbus]

They could be going to the Bellhart Bellways

Which would explain why Bellhart is strung up and why the savage Bellbeast is restrained

[midnight reef]

Fair point

[hushed yoke]

i assume theyd be going to the shellwood bellways then is the thing, they probably got easy access to it that pilgrims dont, and would have relocked it upon departure

how they would depart? iunno, maybe they'd have called for a carriage and used the bellways the "normal way" as opposed to hornet riding the bell beast

[midnight reef]

Now I kinda hope we get to see another transversal mechanism for the Bellways

[sinful nimbus]

I misremembered where the shellwood station was whoops

[hushed yoke]

mood

[hushed yoke]

im not even totally sure if its "exhaust" is the thing though. it kinda feels like its the destination for whatever kind of steam it is that they're pumping up to there. especially considering that the exhaust from the exhaust organ seems to be contributing to bilewater's sickening environment, idk

which is to say that i imagine the cradle would suffer similar issues as bilewater, minus the maggot water i suppose

does it have to do with dispersing silk threads into the air?

or like... is it meant to funnel directly into GMS's chamber and prevent her from building up too much silk while maintaining the song that keeps her in slumber, that way she cant build strength, and it just failed at one point? perhaps due to the citadel getting obsessed with silk and dispersing it into the air over time? and we know its getting into the air since they have people in grey moor trying to catch and spool silk out of the open air

[dusky bay]

I can confirm that moorwing is the meat that gets cooked in fleatopia
If you ignore him the meat in the flea festival is like a small meat with a tail
So yea
Rip moorwing-

[hushed yoke]

no surely the weavers would have been conscious of that possibility, they deal in silk powers all the time

[terse warren]

It's falling like rain

[hushed yoke]

i mean in that case, itd be falling with the rain then, doesnt mean its not floating in the open air imo

though i suppose it could be flowing through the swamped creeks of bilewater and sinner's road

which then leaks down into greymoor

either way, theres text in the marrow alluding to silk being in the air, so the silk catchers in greymoor arent the point that matters

[dense aspen]

What happens if gms dies

With no binding

Like just stabs her to death or something like that

[hushed yoke]

not an option as far as i recall, they just stay posed there until hornet does something lol

[frank dove]

There was a cut ending where I think if you didn't bind in time she grabbed you and merged with you to strengthen her

[dense aspen]

I meant in lore

[hushed yoke]

ohh, i mean, who knows, maybe hornet just isnt able to kill her that simply

[frank dove]

Ok so yeah I think that is what would happen, but it did get cut so who knows

[frank dove]

I don't think normal bugs can kill higher beings

Maybe gms is special tho bc hornet just stole all her silk

[dense aspen]

What if someone uses a hammer and bashes her head in like 40 times

[frank dove]

💀

[mystic fiber]

why does a lore tablet calls herrah "but the common beast"?

[hushed yoke]

i really wish i could understand the weaver-design behind what they did to GMS, since the structure of the cradle just doesnt seem in line with their building style.

instead they seemingly sealed themselves in great, pin-like structures to establish their new order.

ugh and dont even get me started on first sinner, wtf happened there, she followed the plan and then when the citadel fell to the haunting they decided to cut her off from the flow of silk specifically or something????

[mystic fiber]

i presume it refers to herrah right?

the tablet is in fungal wastes btw

[dense aspen]

What would happen if someone brutally strangled stabbed mangled her does she just come back?

[frank dove]

Oh now the 'but the common beast' makes sense

Bc weavers were originally feral bugs or wtv

Crazy how that was hinted to in hk but it was so obscure no one saw it

[frank dove]

Idk

[sinful nimbus]

but they aren't anymore

[frank dove]

e

[mystic fiber]

but since herrah is a weaver i think she's not really a "common beast" right? or the mushrooms just casually recognize the nature of weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers had high social status in Deepnest so it doesn't make a whole lotta sense tbh and that's because Herrah doesn't appear to have been intended to be a weaver in HK

[mystic fiber]

damn it. always the mushrooms

[sinful nimbus]

In other words its a slight retcon

[mystic fiber]

[frank dove]

Yeah mushrooms are significantly smarter than higher beings

Hold up is mr mushroom a higher being I never considered this

[hushed yoke]

i mean i imagine higher beings in general are tough nuts to crack, just look at the radiance. hornet is half-pale being herself, so shes basically a demi god, and is as good a position as anyone to take her down

[frank dove]

First sinner does not look like exactly like other weavers as well, she was likely a different kind of spider before gms turned her into one

[sinful nimbus]

But we see her creation

She's also a Pharlid

[frank dove]

Isn't she also like 1/3 higher being already tho

[frank dove]

Yes she is but the others aren't

They have different head shapes

[hushed yoke]

?? thats less than half

shes half weaver half wyrm

[sinful nimbus]

She's still pretty morphologically similar she's also considered to be the same type of being

[frank dove]

Oh wait nvm idk what I was thinking

I was considering weavers 1/2 higher being already lol

[mystic fiber]

the phrase "but the common beast" still dont make much sense for me

tbh

[frank dove]

Ask team cherry they respond to stuff like this a lot

Honestly we have a weaver queen ending, I'm looking forward to wyrm queen in the dlc where she embraces her wyrm side

That would be so cool

[hushed yoke]

i think yall are forgetting that hallownest doesnt seem to understand what the weavers are, nor their history. they arent seen as higher beings, so therefore herrah is considered a common bug, akin to how one may rudely call the mantis lords common bugs. and then on top of that, she and the weavers associate with the beasts of deepnest, hence being rudely called beasts themselves

[frank dove]

wyrms are just so much cooler than those spiders

[hushed yoke]

hence, herrah the beast, hence, common beast

[sinful nimbus]

Okay but the Mushrooms clearly know enough about Deepnest to comment on its royalty and Herrah's social status

Like we know they are wrong NOW but that's because Herrah was retconned into being a weaver

[frank dove]

Yeah mr mushroom def knows about how weavers work

[sinful nimbus]

That wasn't written by Mr Mushroom

[frank dove]

But he could have told them

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but there isn't reason to think that

[hushed yoke]

yeah but we always knew that herrah wasnt a higher being, and thats still the case even in silksong

"their dead sire, once of honoured caste" is alluding to the pale king

[sinful nimbus]

Higher beings aren't really being talked about at all atm

Pale King isn't a Deepnest resident

[hushed yoke]

okay okay, hang on, lets back up a second

[sinful nimbus]

Their dead sire is probably Herrah's husband who she married to become royalty

[flint wadi]

sire of deepnest, thats not the pale king

[frank dove]

Why does sherma look like seth in your pfp

YO WAIT WE NEED SHERMA FIGHT IN DLC

[flint wadi]

same mask i guess

[frank dove]

THROWING HIS HAT

AND JUST THINK OF THE BOSS MUSIC

[mystic fiber]

noooo i dont want to hurt sherma, even in a playful way

[sinful nimbus]

This border bounds the twisting, scratching things.
Beyond this point is Deepnest
Their dead sire, once of honoured caste.
Deepnest's dead king of royal status
Their sealed mother, but the common beast.
Herrah, who lacks royal status
No peace with them we make.
(We hate these guys)

[mystic fiber]

[frank dove]

[flint wadi]

why everythings gotta be a fight

just give me more sherma time jeez

[frank dove]

Wait if she had a kid with pk doesn't that give her royal status still kinda

[sinful nimbus]

Not really in Deepnest

Its also a dalliance not a real romantic or long term sexual affiliation

[frank dove]

Because hornet is the main character in this game

[flint wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/ihykeon-math-spongebob-fish-sponge-plus-star-equals-clam-gif-24207116

[whole holly]

not really since pale king was already married to WL, herrah birthed illegitimate daughter but basically became princess because vessels weren't suitable

[frank dove]

Just make suitable vessels it's not that hard

Idk why pk didn't want real children

[whole holly]

nope

[sinful nimbus]

I mean why would he

[whole holly]

i don't know

[sinful nimbus]

He has an indefinite lifespan and planned to rule forever

He'd only have kids if he wanted to raise em

[frank dove]

Ok then how did he die

[flint wadi]

its ambiguous but its not old age

[frank dove]

But he did raise the hollow knight

[frank dove]

Then what

[sinful nimbus]

As a tool to contain the Radiance

[flint wadi]

yeah but he wouldnt under normal circumstances

[flint wadi]

who knows

yeah vessels are tools

a mean to an end

[frank dove]

Have you beaten path of pain and seen the secret room in white palace?

[flint wadi]

pk didnt entirely view them as such though cause he did have conscience

[frank dove]

The whole point is he saw the hk as a child instead

Which is why it got infected and stuff or something

[flint wadi]

also suitable how
cause thk shows us that vessels are a flawed plan

[sinful nimbus]

I dunno where you're getting that from but loving a child you had to have does not mean you would want to have a child in normal circumstances

[steep talon]

feel like perfect emptiness wouldnt have contained rad anyway, even if there is such a thing

[mystic fiber]

i think it's more because the whole vessle plan was flawed from the start. but PK caring and loving the hollow knight definitely didn't help either

[frank dove]

Maybe just have like 1 real kid with no void

[flint wadi]

i mean in theory having no dreams to corrupt a mind could maybe...?

[frank dove]

Instead of spending literally all your time in vessels

[steep talon]

shmaybeee

[flint wadi]

i assume its either one of two things

1. it doesnt matter that radiance is contained within a mind, she can still exert influence

2. she only could do that because thk wasnt empty

[frank dove]

Nah it was a perfect plan hornet weavers ruined it

[flint wadi]

didnt want it, didnt need it

[frank dove]

Pk had it all planned out then a weaver entered his dream and killed him in the white palace

[lucid fossil]

it’s number 2

[frank dove]

Whole plot makes sense now

That one weaver in deepnest killed him

[flint wadi]

maybe an empty mind could starve radiance?

[lucid fossil]

no it’s just the equivalent of putting her in a prison realm where her influence cannot extend outside

she was able to take over that prison realm and roam “free” though

[frank dove]

Okay jokes aside I feel like that one weaver in deepnest should be significantly more important

[flint wadi]

yeah but that also means radiance can fade out of public memory, a thing that is implied to be fatal to her

[whole holly]

what if Radiance's Prison was outside of Hallownest and away from Pale King's Beacon

[lucid fossil]

yah she survived due to little talking about her, and that one statue at crystal peak

[frank dove]

Considering all the others from hallownest left and gms was also slowly killing them

[lucid fossil]

it’s strange you can dreamnail that statue so perhaps that means she survived off of it

[flint wadi]

i mean essence is memories

its not just in livnig things

it lingers

[frank dove]

Wait I figured it out

Hornet's dad is grimm

Wait

What am I saying

[lucid fossil]

wtf

bro had a meth vision

[flint wadi]

does it really matter when talking about dreams

[frank dove]

Alright guys I have recovered from my aneurysm

[lucid fossil]

welcome back

[frank dove]

I meant grimm is a weaver

That works for nightmare heart

[flint wadi]

i feel like rad would still target hallownest

[lucid fossil]

???

huuh where did this come from

[whole holly]

why didn't we see Essence in Silksong still baffles me, i guess GMS has no strong connection to essence but still, it was not Worth omitting, maybe we could have gotten more explanation about essence and it could have connected to Plasmium, Verdania and so much more

[frank dove]

Have you not seen all those vids talking about how similar they are

[lucid fossil]

and isn’t grimm a guy

[frank dove]

His moveset is like exactly reaper crest and many of his attacks are similar

[whole holly]

well, Knight has made from 2 voids, being in actual void and his mind not being ascended by pale king's beacon, so i guess it is relevant

[blissful harbor]

hornet just doesn’t have the means to see it herself
which is dumb, elegy of the deep should totally let her see it if it can literally access memories

[frank dove]

Oh wait guys did I just have aneurysm #2

[lucid fossil]

legit their only similarities is slashing (which is from a crest), that saw tool (which legit have no similarities other than looking similar to his dive sprite) and his crawl (which hornet gets from a tool)

[frank dove]

Is it possible for weaver children to be male?

[whole holly]

Reaper bug is not Weaver though

[blissful harbor]

in HK we only start to see essence after the dream nail, excluding the angry dreamer ghosts yelling at you

[lucid fossil]

as far as I know, no because they’re always referred to as daughters instead of children

[flint wadi]

its still seeing essence without a dreamnail

[frank dove]

hm

[lucid fossil]

it’s probably possible but mother silk hates men I guess how based

[whole holly]

that's what i am saying, maybe we can upgrade that ability further kind of like Knight was able to Ascend the Dream Nail

[frank dove]

Guys someone go play elegy of the deep on reaper bug

[blissful harbor]

because the dreamers do it, they have abilities of their own
like a ghost letting you see it yk

[flint wadi]

you see essence in the dream nail sequence (before acquiring it)

just plainly there

[blissful harbor]

wel yes i would hope you could see essence after being shoved in the dream realm

[flint wadi]

to ghosts naked eye

[blissful harbor]

literally being in the dream realm of course you would see it without tools

hence my earlier comment about hornet not being able to see it being stupid

[whole holly]

it is not naked eye, Ghost is in Dream Realm, Dream Nail allows us to see essence in waking world

[flint wadi]

i think silk memories are just viewed through a different lens hence the lack of essence

red memory is extracted from hornets thread

[whole holly]

i think that's a bad design

[flint wadi]

it is but if we wanted to critique silksong thats a different talk

you wanna talk about how bad silksong is?

[whole holly]

to be honest nothing DLC can't fix

[sinful nimbus]

You called?

Silksong is the worst game focused around acrobatic silk usage in combat and hunting quests I have ever played

[lucid fossil]

bro just has a skill issue or something idk

[pale valve]

is there anything implying that the conductor credited for the opening line is the old penitent?

[sinful nimbus]

Not really

[pale valve]

or is that just a popular theory because of vibes

[lucid fossil]

uhh I don’t think so, I think it’s just a theory

[sinful nimbus]

There's a rumor that his singing sounds like the Conductor's Melody but I don't hear it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Vv3tlg2gg

[pale valve]

so we don't ever see conductor romino...

[hushed yoke]

if they had any peace going on with deepnest, it was purely because of the pale king and hornet.

why? because the mushroom folk are assholes who think their unified mind is baller and makes for the best communication, though i forgot their exact phrasing.

meanwhile, they decided to cooperate with the pale king since he had something they didnt. future sight.

i genuinely dont think the mushrooms respect the hierarchy of other kingdoms, though i suppose i dont have any solid proof of that

as for sire, the pale king is the sire of deepnest's princess. of course they'd respect that higher being's connections. they didnt say "their dead father" alluding to some spider husband we never see, in keeping with herrah being the head of deepnest and being referred to as "their sealed mother". instead, they said "their dead sire" as in the guy who contributed to the dalliance with herrah and brought deepnest's legitimate heir into being. him being one of the few people they actually respected, and higher beings are often referred to as higher caste if i recall (or at least i recall lace or hornet saying it once in silksong)

also i can not begin to comprehend why they would consider this hypothetical spider hubby to be higher caste, but her a common beast. like what, for potentially being a weaver? the weavers worked under herrah just judging by the fact she's the weaver den's big shot leader who negotiates with other kingdoms and organized that dalliance with the pale king to begin with. i mean i GUESS its not impossible that she wasnt a weaver AND the weavers were more powerful than her, and thats why the mushrooms would hypothetically respect the weavers more than herrah. but its genuinely odd to find a hierarchy where the strongest doesn't rule the kingdom/tribe in HK/SS lore, its usually pretty clear cut

also i sent this like an hour late, but i got distracted

[abstract rivet]

hi silksong lore nerds including myself

[lucid fossil]

it definitely sounds like it could be a conductor, you gotta remember the one we meet is on the brink of death and is keeping themselves alive with silk

[sinful nimbus]

I remember but I don't follow the logic

[abstract rivet]

How was conductor ballador at brink of death when he gave us the melody, I geniuenly forgot the dialogue

[lucid fossil]

he’s good at signing and large thats all

[sinful nimbus]

Bro is on a hospital bed with a silk IV

[abstract rivet]

imagine Conductor Romino or whatever his name is that wrote the poem at the beginning is a dlc boss

[lucid fossil]

well he talks about all his kind being dead and not being able to give anything other than his melody. he doesn’t say it in his dialogue but he sounds sick and gloomy, and you can see him on a bed with him sewing silk into himself

[pale valve]

we only see two conductors in-game

[lucid fossil]

wtf is the second one

unraveled??

[pale valve]

Ballador, barely alive, and the body of Mizello as part of The Unraveled

[abstract rivet]

love how he refers it to as “his kind” like as if its a different species when its just like 3 people

[sinful nimbus]

Conductor Romino not showing up does make the amount of Conductors feel expansive

[abstract rivet]

I mean maybe he’ll be a boss or a character for a memory dlc perhaps

I mean Pharloom before the citadel is finna be interesting

[lucid fossil]

i don’t think we’ll get that 😢

[pale valve]

We already see that somewhat

[abstract rivet]

I think we will

[pale valve]

Verdania and Coral Tower

[lucid fossil]

yeah it’ll probably be some sort of dream sequence addon

[abstract rivet]

Karmelita arena shows aesthetics of reveal trailer Hunters March , Khann’s boss arena has some gate of kind

No way they cut all THAT for one boss and 4 enemy gauntlets and a boss

[zinc cloud]

is there anything said about where pharloom is located? i heard once that its on an island from someone

[abstract rivet]

like call me delusional, I don’t have proper evidence to back up my claim other than these two but we’ll have a memory dlc trust

[pale valve]

I don't think saying it's "cut" was fair, they retooled and redesigned the areas to convey the themes and atmosphere of the story

[vestal swan]

It's just far away in the wastes, nothing like an island is ever suggested. Although we do know it has a peculiar shape being pillar like

[abstract rivet]

retooled and redesigned yeah but it feels like there was more to it

[pale valve]

just a change of vision if I had to say

[abstract rivet]

I do believe we’ll get a dlc about memories, just like how we got a dream dlc in Hollow Knight

[zinc cloud]

okay thanks! i wish team cherry would make a map of the world someday

[pale valve]

I honestly think it works incredibly well, the cohesion that it has is super cool

[abstract rivet]

I know team cherry is working on a memory dlc i just have no proof

[lucid fossil]

pharloom is inside a pillar inside of a greek temple confirmed

[vestal swan]

It's more like a lopsided ant hill

[sinful nimbus]

Style goes over story

Gameplay > Art/music > Story

[pale valve]

sands of karak, Verdania, Bilewater, Sinner's Road, the Ducts, all direct byproducts of the citadel grandeur

[vestal swan]

One entrance is halfway up on the left one entrance is on the bottom of the right and the other entrance is at the very top

[sinful nimbus]

The Citadel destroying the environment isn't even relevant to the plotline of Act 3 idk why its there

[pale valve]

it's literally the entire throughline of the game lmao??

[abstract rivet]

I don’t even give a shit if Lost Lace was a disappontment (it wasnt for me) for most people , I really fell in love with Choral Chambers and thats enough to make me love the game tbf

[pale valve]

Sherma's entire character arc

[sinful nimbus]

Are you trying to tell a social commentary about theocracy and environmental destruction or a story about motherhood

[frosty gate]

I believe Zyoltl does say something about a "Mainland" which is usually the way people from an island talk about firm ground

It would also make sense, they do have a Coral Reef thing going on, perhaps the caverns were connected to the sea

That said we don't sea a see during Hornet's transportation montage

[pale valve]

you can do both

the game literally does both

[sinful nimbus]

Not in any organic way

[abstract rivet]

I love how the plot is kind of random

[sinful nimbus]

"Yeah go interact with theme 1 to get a Macguffin so you can go interact with the unrelated theme 2"

[lucid fossil]

She was a weird boss in story but she was still fun

[pale valve]

it isn't really random at all, Hornet is kidnapped and brought to Pharloom because GMS took control and is trying to "reclaim" her runaway children, or what's left of them

[abstract rivet]

I mean fighting some void god/creature if they changed the plot a bit to fit it would be cool but people acting like L Lace isnt good

[pale valve]

her role as the "mother" of all weavers is super important!

[hushed yoke]

fungal wastes lore tablet beneath leg eater:
"Strength in the shared self.
Strength in the mind united.
In every bug that would pass upon our roads,
only the melancholy of disparity."

fungal core lore tablet east of queen's station, down from charm notch room:
"Pity those bugs.
Minds locked. Thoughts trapped in solitude.
Faint shadow of an idea are the words that attempt its utterance."

they literally pity bugs of individual mind

fungal wastes lore tablet:
"Warily shall we accept the will of the Wyrm.
Its prescience shields us.
Fate and Future we shall entwine."

except for him, who even though they accepted warily, they did at the very least respect his abilities.

[abstract rivet]

act 3 plot smh

[zinc cloud]

well peninsula then maybe?

[abstract rivet]

i shouldve clarified mb

[vestal swan]

We see outside the region from three different angles they are not surrounded by water

[abstract rivet]

It isnt rlly random but you get me right

[abstract rivet]

citadel evilness correlating to evil void plague I don’t know how to correlate both

[pale valve]

I mean the act 3 plot is fairly straightforward, you sprung a void trap and the only reason it doesn't work is because Lace goes down with her, and it's GMS' desire to protect her that has her holding on and giving the Void threads of silk to climb up and do things

[inland vapor]

when i watched that cutscene i thought it was the void spreading for whatever reason

i didnt realize it was silk

💔

[abstract rivet]

lmao

[cedar skiff]

tbh the void getting involved could have likely been a way to make hornet care about pharloom without having to give her aura loss. yeah she gives a shit about actually saving the kingdom now because its her fault its this way. any lace and gms character exploration could have been done any other way. eh either way its just a silly thing

[vestal swan]

It's both? They woke up the abyss and gave it a new toy to play with so they're using the silk threads to possess things, void can't do that by itself

Void soaked silk

[cedar skiff]

its really a decision i cant wrap my head around storytelling wise, i mean its aura and hype moments but i dont see how the void fits narratively into silksong the way it did in hk

[heavy gyro]

Is garmond from pharloom

[abstract rivet]

I mean i guess the void coming outta no where is kinda random considering they didn’t have some importance to Pharloom, but in Hallownest we had more depth in stuff about the void, how Pale King was keeping it bay, using it or some shit i forgot and how it was an ancient thing

[pale valve]

it is void!

but it's using GMS' threads (coming up from the Abyss) to do it

like

[abstract rivet]

And how it reached white palace etc

[inland vapor]

its just the shamans doing shaman shit

[inland vapor]

ohhh

got it

[cedar skiff]

yeah but again it still doesnt really make sense for the rest of silksongs narrative

[vestal swan]

I'm pretty sure he is, I don't remember his dialogue exactly but I think he was talking about how his entire town was lost to the haunting and he was basically going around killing stuff as the last survivor so their memory didn't die or something

[inland vapor]

you asked for help and they helped you even if it didnt worm

[cedar skiff]

thats probably my only major complaint for silksong, the void stuff, but it doesnt take away from my enjoyement of the story overall so i can look past it

[pale valve]

the game is pretty clear that once you save Lace and GMS dies to save her, the threads will die too, and the Void will fall back down with it

[abstract rivet]

I think they said “yeah fuck that lets just plague the kingdom with void to give Hornet some justification to save the kingdom”

[inland vapor]

zote is also from pharloom

[hushed yoke]

actually that last bit explains why they didnt care about hornet despite being half wyrm, since as far as we know she doesn't have that prescience which they cared about with the pale king.

plus them WARILY accepting the pale king's will only because of his prescience, goes to show that they dont give a SHIT about higher beings lmfaoooo, if you dont have some cool and advantageous method of observing the world that they lack, they do not care for you whether youre some joe schmoe, or if youre a weaver, or if youre unn, or if youre the radiance if they were at all capable of resisting the infection 💀

so of course theyd refer to herrah as a common beast, and i dont imagine they'd treat her spider hubby any differently, thus they were talking about the pale king here #sk-lore message

[abstract rivet]

I mean i am content with what we got but the void appearing in the game so randomly is funny

[hushed yoke]

okay im done now

[inland vapor]

hype moments and aura truly

[heavy gyro]

Yeah that would explain how he becomes lost

[inland vapor]

it didnt make any sense to be there but whatever😭

[cedar skiff]

idk why hornet would need much more jusitfication but maybe thats just my reading of her character over team cherrys intended characterisation

[abstract rivet]

Yeah lol

they cooked with worldbuilding and gameplay but the story is a bit of silly

[zinc cloud]

anyone know where pharloom bay from the teaser mightve fit in/what it was swapped for? (if its not right for this channel then sorry)

[inland vapor]

TRUE

[abstract rivet]

i mean HK had less errors when it comes to the story, this timeline is way harder to cover than HK’s tho

[inland vapor]

think for bile water

[abstract rivet]

almost everything had some explanation to it

[inland vapor]

i might be wrong

[covert tusk]

No real basis but I had a funny thought that Greyroot put the parasite in some other Wyrm, and that Wyrm fought it off as best it could which resulted in a weaker Wyrm spawn with elements from neither parent, thus creating Zote as something lower than a basic bug, is fucking hysterical

[heavy gyro]

Lowk they can just add some new dialogues in dlc foreshadowing void, and it will alleviate the narrative issue

[cedar skiff]

the thing is silksong has an honestly INCREDIBLY strong narrative with motherhood but that thread kind of gets tackled with a weird method. yeah the voids here now and gms is fighting it because she cares for lace. couldnt that have been proven any other way lol?

[keen nebula]

near craw lake

[abstract rivet]

Yeah i guess dlcs can somehow fix the narrative but i still wouldnt learn how the void makes sense to appear

[zinc cloud]

okay thanks i thought it was putrified ducts!

[abstract rivet]

like I need some godlike explanation

[vestal swan]

Greyroots kids didn't grow up

And if it did it wouldn't be a bug shape

[cedar skiff]

to me from the developement timeline weve seen it also seems like the swerve in the void direction for act 3 mustve happend like way late

[inland vapor]

i guess the end is about how a mother no mather the mistakes she did will do anything to save her child even tho that sentiment isnt reciprocated

[pale valve]

genuinely don't see how people think the narrative is weird or doesn't make sense, maybe I'm just Built Different but it made perfect sense to me

[keen nebula]

you can tell by the texture of the ground there, and i think some pre-release maps we now have

[covert tusk]

That’s why it’d be a Wyrm cuz Wyrm genes or something
Like the knight doesn’t look like a tree but has a tree mom (idk I just had a funny idea relating to the crack theory of Greyroot being Zote’s mom)

[inland vapor]

act 3 is weidly fit in the game it dies fit but its weird

[abstract rivet]

void correlating to the narrative is super weird for me (I like it dont get me wrong but yk what I mean)

[vestal swan]

That doesn't make sense either

A full higher being would not be susceptible when one with half of it as genetics can resist it by itself

Wyrm > root parasite

There's no scenario where zote is gray roots child

[pale valve]

the thing about Act 3 is that it's the most "sequel" the game goes

[inland vapor]

also isnt the void god thing void gives focus? wouldnt it be aware of ANY void? why does it not do anything when GMS is in it doing shit

[covert tusk]

Prolly true but also
🤓

[pale valve]

it is very much intended to be a sequel to the original in the way that it elaborates on and gives another perspective to the void

[inland vapor]

no HK mention sadly

[pale valve]

I mean, look no further than the game's ending

[frosty gate]

I was gonna discuss this without proof but I have proof now and I think there's little discussion,

First interaction with Zyolotl:

"The grey and barren soil of the mainland could never produce something as singular as this, and that is undisputable fact!
Plasmium was discovered by my master at the farthest edge of Pharloom, hidden deep in salt-stricken waters. I brought it to these caves under her direction, to study how it flourishes in a foreign place."

[vestal swan]

Voidheart apparently does not give TK a universal control over void, they had to come and tame the lake or whatever. That also brings up the problem of how they figured out something was happening in the first place if they weren't connected to it

[covert tusk]

I like the inclusion of Void cuz it emphasizes how truely neutral it is as a force
The first game paints it in a good light cuz of the Radiance and cuz we ARE a void being, when in reality from the outside perspective in Silksong its this overbearing ancient force uncaring of what’s around it

[vestal swan]

Yeah that's basically just saying he found it in a place that used to have water and is now sand, so Karak

[covert tusk]

Besides of course The Siblings and The Knight

[pale valve]

this is EXACTLY my fucking point it's AWESOME in that way

[abstract rivet]

in HK we had so much so reasons to account the void to the story and it was peak, our protagonst was a void creature, it had importance to lore, there were alot of reasons for the knight to embrace voids power etc , Pharloom was all about silk and song + fake religion etc, Void had no part to take, It does fit, but it fits weirdly, I like act 3 though

[inland vapor]

maybe void heart controls only hallownest abyss since it dos show some void acts on its own

[cedar skiff]

there is ONE thing that does make perfect sense to me when it comes to involving the void, and thats lace (& phantom). lace and phantom have similary unique creation circumstances as the vessels made of void, and lace is shown to struggle with this albeit only for a little while before it kind of gets overshadowed by other things. the knight showing up to save hornet vindicates hornets statement to lace, that the unqiue circumstances of ones creation do not equate to the absence of life, and thats neat. problem is this character point isnt shown nearly enough for it to be very effective (worked on me though lol) and justify an involvement of void in the storytelling on this scale. in general the story would have benefitted from more lace and phantom appearances like pleasee

[hushed yoke]

i actually think the void works with silksong's narrative in regards to the themes it wanted to explore, and the new way that team cherry wanted to elaborate on the void's nature. which i'd love to go into, but i'll sum up as something something nihilism something something embracing death

but beyond that, lore-wise it ABSOLUTELY feels disjointed from pharloom's story and thats rather sad. i think the only reason it feels that way is because they didnt allude to void whatsoever throughout acts 1 and 2? i assume they did it that way for shock value in act 3, but idk, just ends up feeling kinda tacked on, especially since the path to the abyss is completely sectioned off by the zero context lava diving bell

[abstract rivet]

this

[vestal swan]

Zylotol is also an idiot who gives the substance a new name and ignores hornet telling them what it is etc

[pale valve]

how is it not hinted at at all Hornet literally tells the caretaker "I Know What You Are"

[flint wadi]

i like the connotation of grey being a color code for "deceiving" or "fraudulent" things that are mimicking or trying to reach divinity/excellence

[hushed yoke]

yeah, a snail shaman

[covert tusk]

LIKE SURE, ITS NOT FULLY CONNECTED TO THE THEMES
but it helps emphasize them even if not a literal exact bridge. The Void in act 3 is instrumental for seeing Hornet and Lace’s growths, showing the Citadel’s reach (the old hearts), and of course giving Hornet (albeit in the way she would have wanted least) a way to beat Silk without binding her

[pale valve]

the snail shamans and void have been related for ages

[inland vapor]

nvm it does make sense, it reflects on the same mindset the pale king had😭he didnt know what to do then what DID he do? USE VOID WHICH DIDNT GO WELL

[abstract rivet]

The only part where we could account voids is the snail shaman species

[vestal swan]

In pharloom

[vivid kernel]

So are the weavers in deepnest from pharloom?

[inland vapor]

yes

[vestal swan]

That's where all weavers are from

[abstract rivet]

All of them are

[flint wadi]

like, white is divinity
its your pale beings, or things carrying a certain true power

meanwhile grey is like a leech, its trying to mimic or be like white things

[frosty gate]

I mean, I think it could go either way honestly, won't deny what you think, but I think it could be both.
Blasted Steps and Karak were dried out so perhaps there was water beyond the Edges of Pharloom

[vestal swan]

The water was in pharloom

[vivid kernel]

How did the pale king react to having the creation of another pale being living in their territory?

[vestal swan]

I don't know why you're trying to stretch and say it was an island

[covert tusk]

Yeah that’s why I like the idea as a silly thing rather than serious lore which I wanna stress is my opinion
Zote isnt LITERALLY Greyroot’s kid but do you know how funny it is to imagine there’s just a fucking bizarro Pale family out there doing dumb shit lmao?

[vestal swan]

What

[inland vapor]

one thing that bothers me a lot is how lace gets like 4 chances to redeem but phantom, garmond and a few others just die

💔

[abstract rivet]

Yo if they lowkey changed Greymoor’s vibes to a city rather than a farmland it would look like a depressed version of City of Tears lol

[vivid kernel]

PK knew about the weavers right?

[inland vapor]

yeah

[vestal swan]

GMS was not in PK's territory

[hushed yoke]

dubiously so, plenty to headcanon about, but only silksong cemented their relationship with the void in many people's eyes. also i dont think being a snail shaman inherently means you deal in void, especially since the shaman in hallownest seemingly had zero clue what the deal was with the knight's void upgraded attacks

[vestal swan]

They lived several regions away from each other

[cedar skiff]

the void and its metaphorical implications for nihilism is something that is relevant for the entire franchise, true, i agree, and death specifically is a big part of silksong (i mean larkin literally wrote the entire soundtrack around the dies irae motif) but along with what you said about it not really making sense lore wise, its a pretty weird story shift to just suddenly make. it should not have played as major of a lore in silksong as it did in hk, and wouldnt have needed for what you said to be effective and hit hard

[vivid kernel]

But did he know the weavers origins?

[abstract rivet]

Why does Herrah lowkey look different from other weavers

I know Hornet is a half pale person so thats why but like idk Herrah

[inland vapor]

2 snail shamans were made of void dude

[vestal swan]

Maybe GMS used a different source bug for the other weavers compared to Herra

[vestal swan]

No they are not

[hushed yoke]

they seemingly disperesed into void, but they are not void themselves

[abstract rivet]

I dont know much about snail shamans and their connection to void very well I need someone to do a clear explanation because its all super weird to me

[cedar skiff]

sentenced to one billion years of snail shamans void discourse

[inland vapor]

descending dark and vengeful spirit void form which i completely forgot the name, you absorb thay void essence and get upgraded to void

[vestal swan]

They did not disperse into void? Their bodies were just black and you absorbed black particles

[keen nebula]

because i think the other weavers wear those silly masks, whereas widow doesnt and looks closer to herrah

[abstract rivet]

is Widow a husk

she can talk

[inland vapor]

no

[hushed yoke]

oh good god so even THATS still in question????

[inland vapor]

she just got her mask taken off of her

[abstract rivet]

Why

[inland vapor]

buddy

[flint wadi]

yeah colorcoding is more of a symbolic thing than anything but i do think it fits pretty neatly with the whole grey/white thing

i also dont think that zote is related to greyroot, or even shellwood for that matter

just that there are "grey" things, similarly to how there are "white" and "pale" things, and just like the latter ones, grey also carries a certain meaning

[keen nebula]

pretty sure she's still wearing a mask, just a different one

[abstract rivet]

why they took off widows mask tho

I think widow is either haunted or she just repeting for the weavers sins

[covert tusk]

Expose her long ass head to the world

[keen nebula]

why'd they stab needles into her back? i don't know either of those, do know that there's a dream thing of her in the cradle though, but forgot what it says

[abstract rivet]

yeah but why what does that do

[pale valve]

literally 2 of your three spell upgrades (that make them voided) are from snail shamans

[hushed yoke]

look, i get it, hollow knight used round black particles vaguely enough that we couldnt confidently say the snail shamans EFFECTIVELY got ritualistically sacrificed into becoming void for the knight to absorb

but that was pre silksong

silksong retroactively bolsters the idea that they became void

[gentle aspen]

silksong shamans seem to deal with void due to its power
they’re not inherently related to the stuff as of right now

[abstract rivet]

woah what

[inland vapor]

is this not absorbing

[keen nebula]

its like the lace and phantom one in the exhaust organ

[abstract rivet]

I did not see that

[zinc cloud]

to stop her from making her own silk, thats why she uses silk around her, not making her own

[abstract rivet]

Or maybe i did or forgot

[vestal swan]

It's not debatable shamans are not made of void, they tell you in every way possible that they aren't.

• the hollowknight shaman states that they are unfamiliar with the nature of TK's upgrades
• they say their family never went so deep to find the area for upgrading abyss shriek
• the silksong shamans have soul harvested from their body which is not something a void being can have
• the hollow Knight shamans have soul harvested from their body which is not something a void being can have
• when the spell for the red memory happens the shamans are consumed by the spell because they did not have enough soul to fuel the spell so they were consumed
• they leave behind soul particles after being consumed by the spell
• the silksong shamans state that their family has not been to the abyss in ages, implying that they themselves have not been and cannot be void because they would have originated there

[abstract rivet]

what about the descending dark shaman

[frosty gate]

Just saying it could be, it doesn't really matter if it isn't either.
If Karak was dried out and once had water it means that the area where you find the Watcher could've been a port and you could've seen a vast sea.
Whether it was or wasn't doesn't really matter anyway, but its a thought to be had

[abstract rivet]

I am still confused about that

[hushed yoke]

there are three sides to this argument and im screaming because i'm in the slice thatll take heat from both ends

[frosty gate]

Y'know, last time we had this discussion I thouht you were the one defending they were made out of void and i was going insane about it

[inland vapor]

that your take

whats*

[worthy ravine]

i personally believe that Widow was punished by GMS for how the other Weavers kept her asleep for so long, so she had her powers taken away and her mask removed (which from what the Maskmakers say, seems to take away a lot of one’s sanity)

[vivid kernel]

Why is forth chorus called forth chorus?

[abstract rivet]

Just kill bro at this point

[covert tusk]

SPEAKING OF WIDOW I HAD A THOUGHT ACTUALLY
The many weavers in Hornet’s early life put immense pressures on her to be weaver, to be strictly weaver, as she was a rare successful weaver spawn. Herrah (as well as her other mothers) disregard this notion.

Lace however had no other parents or even really that present of a mother, and when she is present she’s overbearing and possessive of her as an object rather than a person. The only other person in Lace’s life actively would be Widow (we see her in the cradle via needolin), and Widow would not only have these expectations but more as both a fanatic and due to Lace being a literal child of her god

[abstract rivet]

I mean if they lowkey take off my mask to take away my sanity and remove my powers I’d be better off dead

[zinc cloud]

maybe fourth edition?

[vestal swan]

Because fourth encore was taken by me and only exists in my head

But really it's because it's the 4th of a set of robots

[worthy ravine]

fr, but Widow is useful to GMS, taking control of Bellhart, which seems to resist the Haunting pretty well

[zinc cloud]

taking of the mask didnt take widows powers, the nails in her body did

[vivid kernel]

So more then four were made?

[inland vapor]

yeha they constrict her silk usage

[fresh badger]

Room with 12th architect has like 3 others

[vestal swan]

There's one gigantic face on the map suggesting they had a fifth original with a different purpose, but there is four as far as we can tell

[vivid kernel]

I see

[covert tusk]

I noticed that a lot too actually
The SECOND sentinel
The THREEfold song
The FOURTH chorus
Feels important I’m just too stupid to know what about

[vestal swan]

Unless the ones we see that have not been deployed are number 5 6 and 7

[fresh badger]

?

Face on the map?

[vivid kernel]

That is a interesting pattern

[vestal swan]

Near 4th chorus fight, it's a giant face matching the robot but it's way bigger and it doesn't move after the fight

[vivid kernel]

I wonder if it's intentional

[inland vapor]

what are we talking about now

[abstract rivet]

Whats up with the choruses though

[fresh badger]

Im pretty sure that like. Is just meant to be 4th chorus tbh. Little map doodles are never to scale.

[worthy ravine]

i think that just marks where the Fourth Chorus was, i don’t think it implies a 5th Chorus

[vestal swan]

The map doodles are to scale

[fresh badger]

If u say

[vestal swan]

No that would mean not that this is 5th chorus but that the one we're fighting has three more behind it in the workshop not the previous ones

[vivid kernel]

What was the choruses' purpose?

[unkempt turret]

Are shakra, her mentor and elder hu from the same tribe? Because if you look at their clothes and accessories they kinda do look they are

[worthy ravine]

Not really sure what they’re original purpose was, but the Fourth seems to have been sent just to take out the Seamstress, and you can see her pin still stuck in its head

[vestal swan]

Seems like it

[abstract rivet]

Oh shit I dont know Pinstress seamstress lore

What the fuck they do

[zinc cloud]

shakra and mentor yes, elder hu no confirmation i think (same species probably though)

[inland vapor]

supposedly yes

[abstract rivet]

what species is Shakra from

[fresh badger]

????? I just looked at its sprites and I aint see no pin

[inland vapor]

there were 3 one kept training while one became the cloak seamstress, the third got killed in the ducts near bile water

[fresh badger]

Oh the pre-activation nvm im dumb

[spring escarp]

I never noticed that being hit while healing made you lose all your silk

[gentle aspen]

you are

[inland vapor]

why is lace pin there

[spring escarp]

I thought you just lost heal silk

[fresh badger]

Shut up hoker

[gentle aspen]

Not lace’s pin, seamstress’s

[spring escarp]

Seamtress pin

[pale valve]

it's the seamstress' -

[vestal swan]

Seamstress

[inland vapor]

are you sure

[gentle aspen]

snails the lot of you

[gentle aspen]

pretty sure

[pale valve]

she's literally right there

[gentle aspen]

Threw a trash bag, into space

[inland vapor]

true

[abstract rivet]

why are they getting killed did they refuse Citadel rule

[pale valve]

also isn't it the fourth chorus because there's three others

[fresh badger]

Snails...? Snail shamans...? Void shamans...? Ancient civilization...? Steel masters...? We compress Higher...?

[gentle aspen]

they trained citadel folks on how to wield pins

[worthy ravine]

yess

[abstract rivet]

why are they getting huntef

[spring escarp]

huh

[gentle aspen]

@spring escarp the lore implications is that memes don’t belong here

so don’t post em

[spring escarp]

Deep lore

[pale valve]

you see the name and you're like huh I wonder what that means

Electing to ignore the three other fourth chorus shaped robots in the underworks

[inland vapor]

dont know

they’re just dead

[fresh badger]

Wait isnt the architect crest inside... of a 0th chorus

[gentle aspen]

!wiki Pinstress

[spring escarp]

Suspiciously chorus shaped robots

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Pinstress

[hushed yoke]

youve been reading it, and im saying that the snail shamans arent void, but have ALWAYS had a meaningful connection to the void due to stuff that the pro-snail void shaman theorists have been saying, but ALSO it was incredibly unclear due to valid stuff that the anti-snail void shaman theorists have been saying

but the pharloom snail shamans ABSOLUTELY have retroactive implications on the hallownest snail shamans!!!!! they just do, team cherry could have used literally ANY other bug species and they did NOT just pick snail shamans because "ye snails cool :)"

hell the god damn framing of their proper reveal as snail shamans matters! a voidy thing happens, pharloom is flung into a void hellscape, you confront the nerds in the maiden's chapel, and BOOM, snail convention! why bother with that if them being snail shamans doesnt have meaningful implications to someone who played hollow knight? hell they didnt even need a reveal if they were just fuckin around with soul magic, they coulda been some new species! or druids!! or mantises who spec'd into the magic tree!!!

[gentle aspen]

what?

[fresh badger]

0TH CHORUS REAL

[abstract rivet]

Yeah bro trust me lets ruin an fucking kingdom to make a fake heaven thatll totally work forever for our goal trust me

[pale valve]

the first

two bodies outside and the one you bind from

[worthy ravine]

me when i count

[fresh badger]

I cant count

[inland vapor]

true

[pale valve]

nobody take this the wrong way but I feel like I'm going Insane

[abstract rivet]

there were probably 6 or 7 choruses

[inland vapor]

also i saw NOBODY mention how TK can use silk with weaver song😭

[fresh badger]

Why do we assume the 2 very unrelated groups of shamans both have the same knowledge? Pharloom shamans clearly fucked with the abyss while Hallownest shamans clearly never knew of it

[gentle aspen]

I feel like to argue this you’re ignoring the voidy thing happening was a trap they set up as opposed to just something they can do offrip
the reveal was necessary because of the foreshadowing beforehand as well idk what this last paragraph is about

[inland vapor]

like it uses the silk to make the weaver lings

thing

[gentle aspen]

I mean…that doesn’t really matter?

They’re using a charm

regular mooks in the citadel use silk as well they’re not particularly special

[abstract rivet]

the knight do be doing anything bro

Don’t question their power

[worthy ravine]

enter into the world of charm lore discussion

[ember river]

Why would it be worth mentioning, silk is soul, it's not too far fetched to think a charm would be able to weave it

[abstract rivet]

Anything to kill the Radiance i guess

also unrelated but I mean I have no idea why they made clanker Green Prince in Cogwork Core

[inland vapor]

nevermind then

[inland vapor]

to protect verdania

[gentle aspen]

protection purposes

[ember river]

They liked how they fought and danced at the same time
(And they wanted to try soul transference)

[gentle aspen]

Well no, to protect the citadel’s inner workings

[inland vapor]

both things

[abstract rivet]

citadel be doing anything

[gentle aspen]

Citadel did not give a damn about verdania lmao

[abstract rivet]

citadel betrayed verdania

[inland vapor]

the green prince the second died so verdania would grow but citadel was a piece of shit and did it anywas

[abstract rivet]

all my homies hate the citadel

[pale valve]

wtf man, that guy was dead the whole time?? bro this wasn't established earlier, lame asspull twist that has no relation to the story...

[cedar skiff]

the mechanisms in place to keep gms locked away being presented as a sort of test of holyiness to pass for the pilgrims is really interesting to me

aint no pilgrim learning that threefold song

[gentle aspen]

what?

[worthy ravine]

citadel just be doing shit

[foggy fractal]

who are we talking about ?

Green Prince ?

[silk dirge]

yeah lol

[inland vapor]

the other one

[foggy fractal]

so Green Prince's lover

[abstract rivet]

so is Green Prince confirmed gay

[silk dirge]

i wonder what the original purpose of the architects melody thing was

was that thing always on

[gentle aspen]

yeah?

[abstract rivet]

wow lets go

[pale valve]

the notion that a plot beat "doesn't make sense" because it wasn't foreshadowed or set up explicitly

[silk dirge]

im betting the threefold melody was the song used to keep her asleep

[gentle aspen]

I’m still confused gng

[cedar skiff]

its pretty close to the cradle so likely just another song mechanism to lull her to sleep

[inland vapor]

yeah

[foggy fractal]

and which plot beat are we refering to ?

[pale valve]

The Void!

[gentle aspen]

you said this pretty randomly ngl

[ember river]

People say they destroyed it but the headcanon I like most is them not giving half a fuck so they kill one ruler to make him into a robot and the other gets depressed and then jailed so Verdania collapses on its own.
I know that's probably not what happened but it is funny to me

[fresh badger]

Bro what are you on

[worthy ravine]

i think the Threefold Song was only ever meant to allow Weavers through, since it’s such a sacred area, and Pilgrims seem to just be meant to hang around in the Choral Chambers and shit

[ember river]

Ehhhhh

I'm very iffy to believe that

[fresh badger]

WAIT i just realized I think I rember u from maskbearer thats crazy

[abstract rivet]

the void coming outta no where is pretty funny I like it

[foggy fractal]

John Maskbearer

[pale valve]

it doesn't come outta nowhere

that's what I'm saying-

[silk dirge]

imagine being a pilgrim trying to get conductors melody and having to get through hhg

[fresh badger]

Wdym doesnt come outta nowhere where is it hinted at void even CONNECTING to pharloom geographically pre-act 3

[ember river]

I'm not even sure if the threefold song is from the weaver era, we literally only get it during a single quest and it's only related to the bug administration

[gentle aspen]

well the gauntlet is a direct result of gms’s haunting

[silk dirge]

anyways yeah what was the original purpose of the architects melody structure

[cedar skiff]

yeah btut the statue addresses pharlooms pilgrims: "Pilgrim of Pharloom eternal, regale us with our Threefold song, that you may rise above and worship before our kingdom’s divine heart."

[worthy ravine]

oh shit really

[abstract rivet]

Hallownest had alot of business with void, Pharloom doesnt so Thats why i say its no where, pharlooms about silk and song and fucking over areas

[silk dirge]

i think this is just a lie tbh to keep them believing

[cedar skiff]

yeah exactly

[silk dirge]

there is 0 chance any pilgrim was ever making it up

[worthy ravine]

forgot about that mb

[silk dirge]

considering a pilgrim would also need to kill cogwork dancers

[inland vapor]

not even choral chambers

[cedar skiff]

and i find that a really good worldbuilding detail

[silk dirge]

to even get that quest

[inland vapor]

before hornet the judge just killed you

😭

[pale valve]

if you go deep enough, it's always there...

[abstract rivet]

I mean I gotta respect the Pale King for just making architecture in Greenpath and not completely fuckin it up, compared to how Pharloom treats their own version of greenpath (verdania)

verdania means greenland lol

[ember river]

Or to prove that you've been authorized to access the Cradle

[gentle aspen]

that’s an assumption we made after it already being introduced

[pale valve]

plus you literally started dealing with a snail shamans who's like "hey lass I have this cool thing we can do you need to give us Souls so we can kill God"

[cedar skiff]

the truth behind the citadels true purpose was kept totally hidden from the average pilgrim

[inland vapor]

everything that isnt citadel is fucked over lol

[gentle aspen]

Anyways I forgot about this discussion but

Our grand Citadel learnt well from the training of Pinstresses past. Then it went and turned those teachings upon us!
Despite our superior skills, our numbers have always been few, and their strength overwhelmed.
That’s why they went after the pinstresses

they taught them and then went to go kill em

Because it’s the citadel

[inland vapor]

is the citadel…..THE USA??

[abstract rivet]

I think the only time the void was foreshadowed was Team Cherry announcing silksongs release date with the void effects

[ember river]

The cogworks are also haunted by the way

Hornet's experience isn't necessarily what every single pilgrim went through

[abstract rivet]

No the usa loves freedom the citadel HATES freedom

[silk dirge]

are they

[inland vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/michaeljordan-mj-basketball-gif-michael-jordan-no-no-no-no-gif-16220345851539903827

[silk dirge]

theyre automatons

how do automatons get haunted

[cedar skiff]

not entirely

[ember river]

Silk-fueled automatons, yeah

[abstract rivet]

automatons with flies that give soul

[cedar skiff]

i dont think theyre haunted though

[gentle aspen]

they do have the silkflies which is due to whiteward fuckery so

[ember river]

Second Sentinel, for example isn't haunted and recognizes the Haunting

[gentle aspen]

they might be haunted too

Not all of them though

[abstract rivet]

nah theyre haunted if we mention the word silk

[silk dirge]

yeah but i dont see how a pilgrim would get to the threefold melody without killing them

i dont think they would just

kindly rotate the background

[abstract rivet]

How’d the citadel die, before we going there, it seemed like the whole area was fucking dead

[ember river]

Well, I'd assume conductors and the people up top would need to routinely use that elevator without a fight to the death every time

[abstract rivet]

It took GMS to haunt the bugs to make it alive

[ember river]

Plus any pilgrim who wasn't allowed to be there would have had to get past the Grand Reeds

[silk dirge]

i think its mentioned somewhere lace killed a lot of them?

i dont remember exactly

[abstract rivet]

Wow lace killed the entire fucking region bro is really THAT bored

[inland vapor]

gms is fodder

🤞 🤞 🤞 🤞

[silk dirge]

i dont remember where exactly its mentioned but i remember something like it

[abstract rivet]

Yeah lace needed a friend or someone thank god Hornet is basically bffs with her now after the ending

[cedar skiff]

ill forever mourn lace screentime we deserved to see so much more

[ember river]

@abstract rivet also, about the void thing, it's very subtly hinted at during the Silk and Soul quest introduction, I figured it out when the shaman said to erase the monarch

[cedar skiff]

lace slaughtering random citadel bugs out of boredom and presumably to get her mamas attention would be so interesting but its mentioned once vaguely kinda offhand once sigh

[ember river]

Hornet got so much more

[abstract rivet]

yeah but super little yk

[ember river]

In the original game

[inland vapor]

stupid shamans thought the void could still seal things😭😭😭

[ember river]

It could though

[abstract rivet]

Shamans and Weavers are bottom top 2 species oat

[ember river]

Their plan was solid and would have worked perfectly had Lace not been stupid

[abstract rivet]

GMS sees children as possesions bro is so evil

[inland vapor]

tbf hornet was about to DIE

[ember river]

What's this shaman hate all of a sudden

[inland vapor]

ONG

[ember river]

That wasn't in the plan either but she was too surprised at the void showing up

[abstract rivet]

Anything shady be coming from them

[hushed yoke]

i didnt suggest they can do it offrip, but i think the fact they know how to do it at all is a meaninful void connection

and the point of that last paragraph is that the act of revealing them as snail shamans is a conscious choice. which i still believe, but after running through my logic i feel its not very concrete if people are inclined to believe that the big reveal of them being snail shamans was just meant to be a surprise hollow knight call back, and NOT imply that all snail shamans have lore connections to the void. but i still think its silly to think team cherry wouldnt be conscious of those implications.

hell im pretty sure they bolster those implications with some dialogue, gimme a second

[frosty gate]

I mean I got my reasons to jokingly hate the buggers but people are going hard on them

[silk dirge]

wait wheres it mentioned i knew it was but i forgot where

[ember river]

Greyroot wasn't a shaman and was very shady, so was Zylotol

[gentle aspen]

I mean act 3 wasn’t their fault

It was lace’s and gms

[abstract rivet]

I think Lace pushing Hornet in entrance to act 3 ending was some act of rebellion against the mother

[ember river]

Same people who glaze the Pale King by the way

[cedar skiff]

its so vague but the caretaker mentions it after lace 2, let me see if i can pull it up

[ember river]

It was but she didn't expect GMS to want to see her alive

[abstract rivet]

What would happen if Hornets and Caretakers plan on sending GMS to the shadow realm worked

[ember river]

No act 3

[cedar skiff]

"Might'a seen herself this place's protector, keepin' it clean and quiet as she did. Course quiet meant most crossin' her path found a painful end from her pin."

[abstract rivet]

Yeah but like what kind of ending do we get

[ember river]

The citadel would have probably exploded like it did but no void threads or anything

[cedar skiff]

most interesting lace tibits are so vague its tragic

[silk dirge]

oh yeah this is what i was thinking of

[abstract rivet]

Haunting is gone, boom thats it? Hornet would be gone aswell lol

[worthy ravine]

probably referring to random pilgrims or people coming in through Sinner’s Road

[frosty gate]

What kinda plan is "Let's summon Ctulhu to fix our problems"??? There's a whole board game to make you understand why that's a bad idea.
Lace knows Godhood, but she doesn't know about Void from what we've seen, the hell does she know that her noble sacrifice will be the almost end of her kingdom

[abstract rivet]

But wouldnt the void spread if Hornet also was banished to the abyss without laces interference

[ember river]

If she died, yeah, if she survived, then she probably just says goodbye and fucks off elsewhere

[abstract rivet]

I dont know how shit this works maybe the void would spread eitherway

[gentle aspen]

No

[cedar skiff]

eh its vague on purpose i think she really just was bored as hell

[ember river]

No? The void only spread through GMS's threads

[abstract rivet]

Wow how does this work I need some explanation

[abstract rivet]

Oh fuck yeah I forgot

[gentle aspen]

The void thread shit only happens because GMS is staying alive and trying to save lace

she doesn’t give a shit about hornet

[abstract rivet]

Stupid GMS

[ember river]

Imagine a cloth soaked in water but the water is void and the cloth is a thread made of soul

[gentle aspen]

like yeah hornet’d be dead but so would GMS

lace truly is just a hater

[ember river]

Imagine if Hornet just became a shade and the Knight was there like "all according to plan"

[abstract rivet]

so its just basically a HK true ending thing, sacrificing yourself to save the kingdom

[frosty gate]

Like I don't even blame GMS for the threads, she just wanted to save her Daugther for ONCE in her lifetime

[gentle aspen]

well that’s not how void works

[abstract rivet]

Wow thats lame thank you lace for interfering

[gentle aspen]

It’d just kill her

[cedar skiff]

also "I'd be sayin' thanks for the slaying, but with all the other husks now awoken and enraged, a bug's chances ain't grown by much." to me kinda implies that lace was pretty much a threat to anyone that walked the citadel

[ember river]

I know that

Well, how void works is weird

[abstract rivet]

Void is just bacteria for me, evil, but not inherently it has to be manipulated or controlled its not some sentient being

[ember river]

Apparently you can get transmuted into a shade somehow (appart from having the egg consumed)

[gentle aspen]

?

since when gng

[frosty gate]

It's not even evil

[abstract rivet]

It lowkey is

[gentle aspen]

neither bacteria nor void are evil

They just are

[abstract rivet]

Evil but not inherently

[ember river]

The vessels?
Also there's the black egg mentioning becoming a shade

[ember river]

It's like saying radiation is evil

[abstract rivet]

Yk they just don’t give a fuck or know whats evil they just chilling

[frosty gate]

I think you mean consciously

[ember river]

It's not, it's just there

[abstract rivet]

Yeah not consciously evil

[frosty gate]

No, that... was bad

[gentle aspen]

Vessels have a godly shell and were placed into the abyss before they even hatched

[ember river]

Our biology hates it but there's a fungus in chernobyl growing off it

[gentle aspen]

And no the black egg doesn’t say smth like that

[ember river]

Yeah, the void still didn't just destroy the egg

[abstract rivet]

voids js bacteria/ substance

[cedar skiff]

we really dont have any evidence of the void fucking up regular bugs "on purpose" it kinda just messes with gods, which like, you can interpret as evil if it fucks with a "nice" god but in all the shown instances so far its taken down only the bad ones

[ember river]

The one in silksong mentions a shade, plus another lore tablet in the abyss wanting to deprive themselves of (I think) desire?

[abstract rivet]

didnt the void corrupt the eggs

[abstract rivet]

Void is just a bacteria/virus i guess

or substance whatever you call it

[cedar skiff]

its a force of nature

[ember river]

It's not biological

[abstract rivet]

Not biological but yeah

[ember river]

But what

[abstract rivet]

I think you know what I mean

I have terrible english to explain it

[frosty gate]

You wouldn't call a Tornado "Evil"

[ember river]

It's not a cancer in the world or anything, it's a force of nature that exists

Like gravity exists or soul exists

[abstract rivet]

Force of Nature is a better analogy i guess

[abstract rivet]

Wow but I want to call them evil

[ember river]

Too bad

Evil doesn't really apply to anything without a conscience

[cedar skiff]

void conversations end up being kinda all over the place because people tend to forget to separate void itself from the vessels and void given focus. void on its own is kind of just a really powerful force of nature. the ancient civilization worshipped it, and a neat comparison is the fact that the citadel bugs basically are all crazed about silk itself.

[abstract rivet]

true

[open dragon]

Yeah no, by far, Sister of the Void is the 100% dairy free, no fat, no gluten, True CANONICAL Ending for Silksong

[abstract rivet]

None of the other endings feel like an ending anyway

[open dragon]

[This sentence will be outdated once Silksong : Pantheon of Pharloom ending is revealed]

[ember river]

Where's this coming from?

[abstract rivet]

weaver queen basicslly gave me the message “yo bro this is NOT the ending go do some more shit then come back”

[ember river]

Weaver Queen feels exactly like THK/SS endings in the original

[frosty gate]

Pretty much, Void conversations are always annoying

[open dragon]

Act 3 is like Dream No More, except Dream No More is like the last 20% of the game

Heck you dont even know what percantage you have unless you make it to Act 3

[silver spire]

void is oil fr fr

[open dragon]

In Act 2 you dont know what your percantage is like...at all, Act 3 is basically canon thru and thru

[fresh badger]

Weaver Queen is cooler bc its peak Hornet potential realized

Sister of the void is lame, Hornet needs a bailout because she's a flimsy weakling

[abstract rivet]

I think the existence of The Abyss existing in Pharloom basically proves its minecraft’s bedrock layer but for Hollow Knight

[ember river]

This is actually true

[whole estuary]

where the cursed child stans at

[jaunty elm]

is eva like a dexter memory ghost now

[frosty gate]

It'd be easier to explain how the Void works if I didn't worry about spoiling Branderson books to people lmao

[ember river]

I am most likely not gonna read them so bombs away (or use spoiler tag if you want)

[fresh badger]

Greyroot is pretty cool ngl I feel like the whole purpose of the witch chapel is so when greyroot 'rebirths' its in the same spot instead of letting the host wander off and spawn the new greyroot in like fuckass deep docks

[abstract rivet]

Well assuming we have Eva binded to us we can just feed Lace alot of silk after SoTV ending

If not we still can just at a slower rate

[open dragon]

Lace be slurping Hornet's silk like spaghetti lol

[abstract rivet]

We js can sustain Lace i guess

[open dragon]

Or Hornet just tosses Lace in her bathtub idk

[ember river]

Greyroot rebirthing in the middle of the Bilewater arena:

[abstract rivet]

what the freak

[open dragon]

The bathtub gives Silk

[whole holly]

where are Strung to Serve fans at?

[ember river]

Nowhere because it doesn't exist

[whole estuary]

find it very neat how both of my favorite games have the infinite liquid void if you dig down deep enough, but those concepts are explored in very different ways

[abstract rivet]

Sorry bro we don’t talk cut content here (except coral forest and pharloom bay) 🙏

[jaunty elm]

what if hornets nail fell directly onto her at the start of the game

[ember river]

What's the other one?

[abstract rivet]

do you guys think theres a section of the game that feels rushed, personally I dont see one but

[ember river]

A game by
Team Cherry

Thanks for playing

[ember river]

Act 3 kinda does

The void questline feels like it plays much faster than the rest of the game

[lucid fossil]

Act 3 felt a bit like a last-minute creation to me

[open dragon]

Soo after Sister of the Void, im guessing Hornet and Lace kinda got along together, went to the Surface, try and fix up Pharloom's crap before Hornet decides to return to Hallownest?

[cedar skiff]

im so excited for future interviews and content that give us some insight into their creative process

[ember river]

And the jump is a bit disjointed

[cedar skiff]

im fiending for an art book already

[whole estuary]

Rain World

[ember river]

Oh right

[whole holly]

people still saw ending though, doubt many liked it

[ember river]

It was okay but I understand why it was cut

[abstract rivet]

act 3 can be feeling like unrushed if they made an content update

[whole holly]

me too

[abstract rivet]

GMS is definition of Not every parent deserves a child

[open dragon]

I know Hollow Knight: Silksong has well...Hollow Knight as the title, but we dont see the Hollow Knight at all mentioned or appear That's Little Ghost, so i was wondering who is the Hollow Knight of Silksong, it's Lace, kinda obvious right? Lace hates her own existance and she feels really hollow

And Lace is the White Knight as some of the pilgrims say (i think?) Lace is a Hollow Knight

[cedar skiff]

lace feels like such an obvious parallel to pure vessel

[ember river]

No, the Hollow Knight is there to let you know it's set in the same universe as the Hollow Knight

[open dragon]

That too

[cedar skiff]

like, i dont think it was an immediate intent with the creation of her character but its just so damn effective

[ember river]

Ehhhhhh, THK was much more sacrificial than Lace, she was more of a tool

[abstract rivet]

Its either lace or hollow knight is just the series name

[ember river]

To continue being used

[dusky bay]

Is gms really that bad?
She just wanted children

[cedar skiff]

see me your knight lace vs father? hollow knight

[abstract rivet]

Lace isnt hollow though atleast she gets proven she isnt