sk-lore

[ancient sinew]

”the steel masters don’t like people who fuck with Void and AC died and we don’t know why” is literally what you said but perhaps you could enlighten me on what other reading exists

That is not evidence stop calling it evidence

[covert tusk]

Dude post Silksong I gotta ask, why did the PK marry The White Lady?? 😭😭
Like love is love not gonna deny him his tastes but like, the only other tree we meet is Greyroot and she’s on lists 😭

[atomic dirge]

"not right. nothing. go" is another thing he just says himself but whatever
"ssssomeone, sssave me" is DEFINITELY him mimicking Styx's last words though

since Skynx himself doesn't normally have the "sssss" thing Styx does

[vestal swan]

They aren't trees and who knows why they like each other

[ancient sinew]

We don’t know why the Steel Masters take issue with their vassals calling upon the Void and we don’t know why AC fell, nothing at all indicates those two things are connected to claim they are is entirely baseless

[lone folio]

you get shot with a steelshot its like a silkshot but it shoots steel.

heres a picture

[atomic dirge]

so a gun?

[sinful nimbus]

By process of elimination we can deduce they are the reason the AC inexplicably died

[edgy barn]

Isn't that just a gun

[sinful nimbus]

Which you'd know if you engaged with my theory in good faith

[gentle aspen]

“why did two people who leave each other marry each other”

[foggy fractal]

wtf

[craggy smelt]

you figured it out~!

[vestal swan]

The only thing missing from the equation is knowing how old the masters are, it's a valid interpretation that the masters would clash with the people who worshiped the void

[sinful nimbus]

White lady does different things than Greyroot

[lone folio]

nono when a steel person shoots it they need to rip a part of themsleves off so its more like shooting your organs at your enemy

[covert tusk]

LMAO
I meant moreso all I’m saying is if I was the PK I’d be just a biiiit cautious knowing that if I’m wrong this lady can put a parasite in me 😭

[ancient sinew]

What is this process of elimination you speak of

[gentle aspen]

He’s a god

also that’s a bit racist

not all roots are the same

[vestal swan]

The interaction with TK's shade never happens in the first game, this cannot be used as evidence

[edgy barn]

WL has never been implied to be a parasite.

[gentle aspen]

Be better

[foggy fractal]

mods

[sinful nimbus]

Google

[ancient sinew]

Do you know every single thing that could have resulted in AC’s downfall and every single reason why the Masters might not like the Void getting called upon willy nilly

[timber pond]

I dont really think it is. I think its the context that the masters might care about. They themselves are contradictory, they use void in thier society heavily but restrict it under specefic circumstances. Its not a retcon, we just dont know how to answer this.

[ancient sinew]

How would you even go about eliminating those I can think of about ten on the spot

[covert tusk]

In universe conversation between two bugs LMAO

[gentle aspen]

who says they use void heavily in their society?

[atomic dirge]

Jiji: "I can summon the void"
Jinn: "Aw, that's sweet"
Sula: "I can summon the void"
Zi: "HELLO, MASTERS??"

[ancient sinew]

Great evidence thanks I’m convinced

[lone folio]

oh hey my steelshot got deleted, it probably broke the hollow knight rules which i forgot would probably include pictures of firearms

[gentle aspen]

what?

[craggy smelt]

every bullet has a little Jinn face on it

[sinful nimbus]

😐

[lone folio]

my amazing picture of a steelshot got sent to the void sea

[timber pond]

The fact that every one of thier vassals seems to have some intimate knowledge?

also steel assasin sharpe may or may not be a "mould" like a KIngsmould or a wingsmould. But this is not confirmed and is purely based off of design, animations ect.

[ancient sinew]

ok ms “process of elimination” sorry if I upset you

[vestal swan]

It doesn't matter why the Masters don't like void being used, they don't like it being used enough to kill somebody that used to employ

Do you not realize the impact of that

[lapis creek]

ass jim's signature dish is dependent on the murder of children

[ancient sinew]

How does this lead to the conclusion that they were responsible for AC’s downfall

[atomic dirge]

yeah Sula wanted to use the void to fight back against the masters

[gentle aspen]

sharpe as of right now is cut content and isn’t in the game, and knowledge of void doesn’t mean they use it heavily. The fact that we literally have to go and kill someone who uses void seems to suggest they don’t, no?

[atomic dirge]

fuck is AC

[ancient sinew]

There are any number of reasons why they might not like Void being used

[gentle aspen]

Ancient Civ

[ancient sinew]

We don’t even know if they were around at the time of AC

[atomic dirge]

a

[lone folio]

wait why would a firearm not be allowed when i can say the word "drug".... i guess its leaks for the upcoming zoteboat dlc that takes place in the city of steel

[craggy smelt]

those nerds in the Abyss

[sinful nimbus]

It is very clearly because of social or religious reasons but even if we don't know the specifics, it gives precedent for my idea; in the scientific community you do not prove a hypothesis, you fail to reject it.

[vestal swan]

If they were around back then it's a valid interpretation that the people who hate void being used and will kill people over it destroyed the civilization built around worshiping and using the void. It might be answered in the future and we could be totally wrong, but it's not baseeless

[ancient sinew]

You have to make so many assumptions for that to work, I agree that it’s one possibility but it is still baseless

[fossil tendon]

Did GMS create Lace purely from silk?

[vestal swan]

You have to make one assumption for it to work

And that's just that the Masters are old

[atomic dirge]

yeah

[ancient sinew]

Because everything is, because we are not given any information

[vestal swan]

And every time we find somebody they are older than dirt so

[ancient sinew]

I don’t think it is sensible to draw conclusions based on literally nothing

[vestal swan]

It's not based on literally nothing

[ancient sinew]

Sometimes “we don’t know” is acceptable

[vestal swan]

Yeah but when there's an opportunity to connect two things and it makes sense why not throw the idea out there

Plenty of stupider ideas with less evidence have come forward over the years

[fossil tendon]

Was Phantom the same?

[sinful nimbus]

It has precedent idk why you are so quick to discuss ideas that aren't 100% definitive

[fossil tendon]

Just another being created purely from Silk

[gentle aspen]

like PK putting his palace into the dream realm

[gentle aspen]

Yes

[ancient sinew]

I don’t take issue with the idea being thrown out I take issue with Star claiming that it is concrete or even likely

[sinful nimbus]

Bro can't read

That's crazy

[vestal swan]

The first comment on the subject was that it was a possibility

[timber pond]

Yes But The question is why can JiJi do void spells it with no repercussion and permision Sula cannot? I Think its intent, Sula wants to use it for himeslf against the wishes of the master, while JiJi dosent go against them. Zi implies that, the masters temper is what should be placated to the most. I dont know if they are against void when it comes to Them using it or vassals using it for thier purpose,but if something happens that is outside thier periphery? Steel assasins are likely what they use....

[ancient sinew]

I’m all for disussing new ideas but I don’t like it when people misrepresent them as fact

[vestal swan]

You really we t on this whole tirade without reading the original comment

[gentle aspen]

Jiji doesn’t do void spells

[atomic dirge]

yep

[ancient sinew]

She does

[timber pond]

Sumoning the shade is a void spell

[ancient sinew]

Jiji can call upon the Void the same way Sula can

[vestal swan]

.

[atomic dirge]

the animaiton is almost the exact same too

[ancient sinew]

The interaction is not canon but the ritual is and they’re both vassals

[atomic dirge]

what interaction

[gentle aspen]

she never canonically does so but yeah I guess

[vestal swan]

Whether or not the ritual is possible she does not do it

[gentle aspen]

and it’s not like it’s all Jiji does anyways

[vestal swan]

She has not sullied her hands with void as far as we know

[ancient sinew]

Prior to Sula you could argue this but we now know it’s something she could probably do

[lone folio]

if you never get caught its legal -sun tzu "art of war"

[vestal swan]

Ironic how you are arguing a possibility that we know doesn't happen as a sure thing now

[sinful nimbus]

TC when they have to make Jiji summoning void canon because they're bored

[ancient sinew]

?

[timber pond]

Still dosenet negate the fact that the masters seem to Use them and they are considered "Vassals" becaue of thier ability to read void energies

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[ancient sinew]

I said Jiji CAN not that she DOES

[vestal swan]

This does not happen in canon

[ancient sinew]

Obviously she doesn’t

[sinful nimbus]

My hypocrite meter is going off the charts rn

[ancient sinew]

But we literally see another vassal do it via what appears to be an identical method

[vestal swan]

The fact that you cannot have that interaction and be alive

[timber pond]

HE means that the knight "Never dies" or whatever

[vestal swan]

Respawn is not canon

[ancient sinew]

Jiji’s ritual was always canonically viable it just never happens

[timber pond]

I could also say godhome never happens

[vestal swan]

No you can't

[lone folio]

so everything related to the the knights shade just doesnt exist

[atomic dirge]

no? Dream No More

[fossil tendon]

And what's the relationship between Moths and Radiance? Like a Human and a God? Or did Moths get made by the Radiance and decided to worship them?

[timber pond]

Yeah i could say DNM happens instead

[gentle aspen]

respawning isn’t canon but most of the stuff surrounding them is

[vestal swan]

Jiji summoning TK shade is an impossible event, godhome is a possible path

[ancient sinew]

And also in the context of Void summoning being a big no no I doubt Jiji would actually do it but you can argue TC didn’t think of that at the time regardless we know it never happens canonically that doesn’t mean it isn’t POSSIBLE

[timber pond]

the details of myth and what does and does not happen are intetionaly wibbly wobbly when it comes to this shit

[lone folio]

well everything from the journal entry

[sinful nimbus]

Most well thought out Silksong addition

[atomic dirge]

how did i tell that was star

[vestal swan]

But we know jiji did not do it whether or not it's possible and that is the point

[sinful nimbus]

I'm a channel celebrity so its no wonder you recognized me

[foggy fractal]

I can tell that is star by clicking on the pfp and checking

[vestal swan]

No?

Her character still exists, her knowledge and that spell could exist

[ancient sinew]

We are making different points those things are not mutually exclusive I agree she doesn’t do it canonically

[vestal swan]

She could also be doing something totally different than summoning void in her normal interactions, like essence ghosts

[sinful nimbus]

"i do not know if the account is starpengu or not until I click on the profile"
"SILKSONG STORY IS TERRIBLE"
"shut up"

[timber pond]

Well we can never know that

[edgy barn]

...that could be the explanation actually. Jiji doesn't summon void specifically, the shade is just the thing the Knight in particular has regrets about.

[vestal swan]

True, but we know she didn't summon the void. She would be executed and the interaction literally cannot happen as we see it happen for gameplay sake.

[gentle aspen]

It’s not “might not be canon” it just isn’t

MY ARM

[atomic dirge]

"What are your regrets"
" "
"ok got it"

[sinful nimbus]

jiji can summon void man just pack it up you were arguing about it for 5 years for nothing 🥀

[lone folio]

then she is plenty powerful. imagine what happens when she meets the pale king, 27958201 siblings magically appear out of nowhere

[ancient sinew]

Didn’t you just call me a hypocrite for saying this

[sinful nimbus]

well "you" I was involved too

[atomic dirge]

what side are you on in this convo

[sinful nimbus]

Both things can be true yes

[timber pond]

This is what pepole will say when they Reveal Gaster was just a normal dude in deltarune. Demystifying things and answering them eventualy is good story telling lol.

[lone folio]

well if pale king regrets it which i thought was the case but "no cost to great" proves me otherwise

[vestal swan]

Can, not that they do

[lone folio]

or maybe he does regret it?? i dont know man

[vestal swan]

Messing with the void is a death sentence from their master

[sinful nimbus]

I would say that depends on what you are demystifying specifically

[vestal swan]

Demystifying the fail King

[sinful nimbus]

I highly doubt Gaster is a "normal dude" as well

[vestal swan]

I'm leaving that typo

[timber pond]

The actual question is if the masters care about people outside of their vassals summoning void and all that matters for futre DLC/ Games

[fossil tendon]

Repost: And what's the relationship between Moths and Radiance? Like a Human and a God? Or did Moths get made by the Radiance and decided to worship them?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes moths are her magical creations

[timber pond]

If its something vauge before that leads to actuall cool story moments, yeah its good.

[ancient sinew]

The Pale King is not a “normal dude” we just know now he was likely far less powerful than people ever CLAIMED he was (which was mostly baseless anyway)

[fossil tendon]

Were they made to worship her or is it not "worship"?

[sinful nimbus]

Dude what

[lone folio]

moths were created by the radiance and then worshiped her until the pale king arrived

[fossil tendon]

Gotcha

[vestal swan]

They were just made, naturally they would worship the god that created them

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah dude weavers are "powerful" and so is Salubra therefore PK's feats don't exist

Pack it up PK glazers

[ancient sinew]

We’ve had this discussion before but none of PK’s “feats” were original

[sinful nimbus]

Silklight this silklight that

[timber pond]

I Lean towards yes because it Gives Sharpe an actual IN to a plot. Which Silksong had none bassicaly and is likley why he was cut.

[sinful nimbus]

Blah blah blah

[ancient sinew]

PK copying magic from other powerful magic users is not a real “feat”

What other feats does he have making a fucking elevator

[sinful nimbus]

You can't assume he copied any magic from any other user

Besides the ancient civilization I guess

[timber pond]

HE used weaver silk

[sinful nimbus]

But refining an existing magical artifact is very impressive

[timber pond]

And Pure vessel also has something similar to Weaver Runes

[edgy barn]

Giving hundreds of bugs sapience? That's kind of his whole thing.

[lone folio]

oh nothing at all except for making a kingdom but thats nothing of importance

[vestal swan]

He didn't refine a magical artifact he copied it like once and then the dream version was infinite

[ancient sinew]

Soul Totems are quite literally AC artifacts, he used Weaver Silk (possibly to prolong his lifespan), PV uses Runes which Hornet says were developed by the Weavers in the first instance, all of his other feats were either not him (or not just him) or are made up

[sinful nimbus]

Me when I make stuff up

[craggy smelt]

he probably wasn't even really a wyrm

[gentle aspen]

ok sephseph

[edgy barn]

Grimm calls him a worm once, that's all the proof you need.

[vestal swan]

He wasn't even pale, he was the blackwyrm in disguise

[sinful nimbus]

PV doesn't use silk to weave runes are you being intentionally disingenuous or can you just not read

This one's husk held a masterful talent, to weave Silk into blazing runes. Throughout my life, I have seen runes woven for many tasks. Was she the first to hone such skills?

[ancient sinew]

Hornet gets most of her powers from her Weaver lineage which also undermines the idea of his offspring inheriting soul powers

And Kingsoul was half WL

[craggy smelt]

he was being sarcastic

[gentle aspen]

Stop begging

[edgy barn]

so was I

[gentle aspen]

not the channel nor the server for this

[timber pond]

WEll this kind of implies to me that Runes ARE something that need to be"Woven"

[craggy smelt]

damn! got me

[terse warren]

Weavers:
Lace and Phantom:

[summer mauve]

This is one of the things that leaves me very confused. A lot of the lore seems to imply that bugs only have "minds" when within the walls of Hallownest. But even before silksong, there were travellers and settlers from outside Hallownest, and civilisations that existed before the Pale King came.

[sinful nimbus]

Doesn't really imply that at all and PV clearly doesn't use silk

[ancient sinew]

She’s talking about rune magic generally

[lone folio]

Anyone can make a kingdom out of dumb mindless creatures, if we left Jimmy the normal guy a big piece of land with a billion roaches he could probably make an empire and take over France

[ancient sinew]

Oh Weavers also made the Seal of Binding forgot that one

[edgy barn]

Some bugs have natural sapience and others got it from the PK.

[craggy smelt]

some bugs are naturally smart, others had their minds expanded by the beacon
those who leave the region of Hallownest lose these elevated minds

[sinful nimbus]

No she isn't read the entry

[fossil tendon]

Anything missing?

[ancient sinew]

could you actually try to engage instead of repeating “read the entry”

[fossil tendon]

Still no clue who the Masters are

[edgy barn]

...why are you arguing with yourself?

[timber pond]

The Big soul Ball attack is Clearly a rune "Throughout my life, I have seen runes woven for many tasks." i cant interpreit that any other way than they need to be woven from silk. Whether its like an active weaving, or some kind of talisman/object from weaving that can be used dosent matter.

[sinful nimbus]

If you refuse to engage with the actual text you are citing and exercise reading comprehension I can't really help you

[ancient sinew]

PK wasn’t a good person or a good ruler and he wasn’t strong

[foggy fractal]

This one's husk held a masterful talent, to weave Silk into blazing runes. Throughout my life, I have seen runes woven for many tasks. Was she the first to hone such skills?

idk Hornet you tell me

[terse warren]

This is one of the worst graphs I've ever seen it's borderline unreadable

[fossil tendon]

I'm still working on it

How can I improve it?

[ancient sinew]

Are you seriously defending the PALE KING I knew standards in this channel were low but this is not it

[terse warren]

Ok but like actually color-code it instead of adding random boxes

[sinful nimbus]

She says she's seen runes created in a specific way, not that that is the only way runes are made

[fossil tendon]

I will colour code it. What should the pattern (?) be

[sinful nimbus]

A literal silksong PFP trying to virtue signal to me OK man

[terse warren]

PK was an extremely good ruler there's literally nothing indicating he wasn't

[timber pond]

Why Did the pale king need Weavers and thier silk to make seals of biding and shit for the black egg temple then? if Runes cane be made via other material why not just do that instead of all this roundabout shit.

[sinful nimbus]

He didn't

[vestal swan]

I mean they did for a while, but the moths presumably weren't lied to about their existence

[ancient sinew]

The maggot slavery? The fact that he literally mind controlled his subjects? The fact that he forced them to worship him? The fact that Hallownest was governed using a corrupt feudal system?

[sinful nimbus]

Dude lay off the fanon

You didn't give proof for any of these

[ancient sinew]

The literal corpse pit?

[timber pond]

Clearly he did. The first one is in the weavers den and you See it block the exit when you enter the the room with The Hollow KNight

[gentle aspen]

he’s never mind controlled any subjects

[sinful nimbus]

I wouldn't really expect much from the dude defending cannibalism but still

[vestal swan]

Never mind what

[terse warren]

I mean the moths also left Radiance I'm honestly starting to think Higher Beings should stop creating people

[ancient sinew]

”Wyrms pull bugs into their thrall” “to yield to devote”

[gentle aspen]

we see one in weaver’s den and its incomplete, it’s not implied to be the first one

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers made a non functional seal of binding this does not indicate that he needs weavers to create them

[terse warren]

That doesn't show how he's a bad ruler

The opposite in fact

[gentle aspen]

That doesn’t imply mind control

[edgy barn]

Atleast two of those statements are straight lies.

[ancient sinew]

Not literal mind control

[vestal swan]

He did it with really bad advertising

[sinful nimbus]

The backpedal is crazy

[gentle aspen]

that wasn’t at all implied from what you said

[ancient sinew]

He was influencing them to worship him

[fossil tendon]

@terse warren

[ancient sinew]

The point is he wasn’t altruistic

[fossil tendon]

Better?

[terse warren]

The guy literally gave em sentience I don't think you need to do much influencing

[gentle aspen]

and you said “literally mind controlled” to boot why are you backpedaling to it not being literal anymore

[sinful nimbus]

He expanded their minds and they naturally worshipped him idk what you're waffling about

[foggy fractal]

try organize it too theres like arrows going all over the place and isn't consistent (i.e. some arrows come from the bottom layer, some the top, some both ways)

[ancient sinew]

People call propaganda brainwashing it isn’t literally mind control

[timber pond]

But It does indicate he needs Silk to do so. Why the hell would he need weavers to help him with this if Runes are not made of intracte silk?

[fossil tendon]

o7 will do

[terse warren]

He killed a gajillion children just to save his kingdom

[sinful nimbus]

How does it indicate that

[ancient sinew]

People don’t use the word literally literally

[sinful nimbus]

Also a rune being made of silk doesn't imply they are ALL made of silk

[terse warren]

Why does WL just have an arrow indicating enemies

[foggy fractal]

another hollowillion children to the pit

[lone folio]

The determination is pretty crazy

[timber pond]

The fact that the Dude has a MASSIVE stockpile of it in hidden station?

[sinful nimbus]

For Kingsmoulds yes

Not really implied to be relevant to Seals of Binding

[ancient sinew]

Because he needed them to worship him, he needed the kingdom to keep running for his own sake not because he was just that nice otherwise he’d have let them die and moved on

[sinful nimbus]

Proof

[fossil tendon]

She is Enemies with the Radiance alongside the Pale King

(is that not clear?)

[terse warren]

Why would the Silk be at the other side of the world compared to the Seal of Binding if that's what it's needed for

[edgy barn]

...do we know of any runes that aren't made from silk?

[sinful nimbus]

Pure Vessel uses them

[ancient sinew]

Hornet in SS says that the only fates pale beings allow are devotion or destruction, and in dialogue eg her dialogue with mask maker the idea of pale beings ruling is strongly presented as a bad thing

[terse warren]

No

Color code the arrows and remove boxes that don't have names of characters

[sinful nimbus]

I don't care

[ancient sinew]

That literally means either worship me or be destroyed

[edgy barn]

Right, the Focus attack.

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is wrong and the game is badly written

[terse warren]

Hornet is a biased piece of shit and in that dialogue she's talking about a time period where GMS wasn't even in control

[edgy stone]

Pale king needed a kingdom sustained the same way the dung defender needs to live in a huge pile of shit

[ancient sinew]

Is that your counterargument?

[edgy stone]

They are bound by the nature of their species to do such a thing

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[ancient sinew]

Well then I have nothing to say

[sinful nimbus]

Devotion or destruction obviously doesn't apply to PK's rule which you'd know if you played the first game

[sinful nimbus]

Thank god

[foggy fractal]

its a family trees graph not those like circular relationship graphs, it feels out of place and inconsistent, if we were to do both at once there'd be so many arrows it'd be unreadable

[timber pond]

OK but like not just kingsmoulds, We can see silk Shit in the black egg temple. Silk is Soul But made to be precise and concentrated. I dont think its far fetched to say the ethings in the temple ARE silk. Also Would make sense because Farsight is weaver technology that is likely built into the tablet and middle area of the Black egg. I would have chalked this up to Gameplay in the past but knowing the farsight IS WEAVER TECH convinces me otherwise.

[terse warren]

Me when the Mantises/Bees/Spiders/Mosskin

[sinful nimbus]

We see no silk in the black egg what

[ancient sinew]

She literally says these are the only fates MY KIND allow PK’s rule is presented as a bad thing throughout SS which you’d also know if you played the game

[sinful nimbus]

Farsight isn't World Sense

[timber pond]

Im certain all the runes are made of silk

But its similar

Almost the same thing

[ancient sinew]

That he allowed other tribes to exist is meaningless when the alternative was to be destroyed

[timber pond]

Likely a Rune

[sinful nimbus]

I haven't played Silksong but I know enough to say that this dialogue is poorly written and is not really applicable to PK's rule

[fossil tendon]

@foggy fractal @terse warren

[terse warren]

Silksong never talks about PK's rule directly

[sinful nimbus]

He never destroyed the tribes that didn't devote themselves to him

[ancient sinew]

But it repeatedly hammers home the point that pale beings are bad, and as it happens we only know of two kingdoms ruled by pale beings one of which informs basically all of Hornet’s experience with them. You do the math

[edgy stone]

Lets consult the graph

[ancient sinew]

That he DIDN’T is irrelevant, they fell in like. The fear of potentially being destroyed was enough

[sinful nimbus]

This is the same game that thinks racism is good why would I care what it's opinion is on the Pale Beings

[fossil tendon]

There's so much more that needs to be done but we've only just started lol

[foggy fractal]

its getting better, you could probably still make it so theres no overlapping arrows, and those boxes could just be text on the arrow instead

[sinful nimbus]

They didn't though

[naive turtle]

Well vessels are pk+wl+void

[terse warren]

Except we never really see GMS do much directly except the Haunting which. It's a quite understandable reaction atp

[fossil tendon]

Gotcha o7

[timber pond]

I would call it good

[lone folio]

Void entity and radiance are enemies if that counts

[fossil tendon]

Changing rn

[ancient sinew]

“The evidende doesn’t count because I don’t like it”

[sacred heath]

cleanup on isle 5 someone spilled their can of hyperbole

[fossil tendon]

That is true I will add this

[sinful nimbus]

Bro is shadowboxing

[terse warren]

It still doesn't change that the Mantises spit in PK's face and didn't really get any retaliation

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong's morals on the Pale Beings are obviously not applicable to the Pale King's rule if you think about it for 5 seconds

[ancient sinew]

They didn’t spit in his face, they fell in line. Explicitly so

[sinful nimbus]

Therefore it makes more sense to call the writing bad instead of the Pale King bad

[terse warren]

??? No they didn't fall in line??

[ancient sinew]

There was a truce, one they continue to uphold even after Hallownest fell

[ancient sinew]

Did you play the game

[timber pond]

Well white lady states They arent Benevolent either and quite cruel iN silksong

[terse warren]

There was a truce because of the Kingdom-wide infection that everyone wanted to stop

[ancient sinew]

Uh, no

[timber pond]

its grey

[terse warren]

Also a truce is not at all equivalent to "devotion"

[lone folio]

Incredibly wrong

[terse warren]

Even if I'm wrong it doesn't change this fact

[ancient sinew]

The truce concerned the beasts of deepnest, they agreed to prevent them from entering hallownest’s borders and that agreement preceded the infection by a long time

[terse warren]

And how exactly is that "devotion" in any way shape or form

[ancient sinew]

They fell in line and did what PK asked

[sacred heath]

not technically devotion

[spark valve]

The Mantis tribe and the bugs of old Hallownest had no love for each other. The Mantises outlived their rivals though, and their civilisation still stands.

[lone folio]

The infection wasn't always there and the alliances wouldn't have happened after the kingdom was already in its prime

[ancient sinew]

This doesn’t change what I saidb

[edgy barn]

Keep in mind this is from Hunter, who here is a second-hand source at best.

[terse warren]

Not really falling in line at all. And what about the Mosskin, or the Bees? How did they show devotion?

[crude peak]

Is there any lore reason as to why the first silk heart is found after bell beast and not somewhere else like widow?

Seems kinda random to me

[ancient sinew]

Mosskin he also had an agreement with, and they had their own HB. Bees he approached but kind of had his hands full with the infection at the time so no real action was taken

[sinful nimbus]

He approached them before the infection too

[terse warren]

You're assuming that PK never tried to interact with the Bees before the infection

[ancient sinew]

Source?

[sinful nimbus]

Wanderer's Journal

[ancient sinew]

He likely only approached Vespa for the Dreamer deal

[sinful nimbus]

I'd post the quote but frankly I'd rather you waste your own money on the book to see it instead

[terse warren]

This is never stated anywhere

[ancient sinew]

Thanks

[sinful nimbus]

No problem

[ancient sinew]

Strongly implied, she knows about the Vessel project and says she chose not to play a part in it

[sinful nimbus]

She probably has a form of world sense

[ancient sinew]

Skull

[fossil tendon]

sec

[terse warren]

She says she chose to not take part in lengthening Hallownest's life

[edgy barn]

...based on what?

[ancient sinew]

Yeah… the Vessel project. Read the context

[lone folio]

Where did you get this information from? City of steel lore tablet??

[sinful nimbus]

Basically everyone and their mother has world sense now

• She's an old heart

[limpid summit]

I feel like with the way HJ is written if we can’t truly see Hunter’s own opinions peeking through we have no reason to doubt things like thi

[fossil tendon]

Thoughts?

[edgy barn]

Star what are you talking about.

[terse warren]

She never specifically said she knows about Vessels 🥴

[lone folio]

I'm throwing my monitor out the window

[sinful nimbus]

It makes sense and its also the only viable explanation for her knowing so much (I hope I don't need to explain why "Vespa was going to be a dreamer" is absurd)

[gaunt kraken]

Not sure if this is lore but after fighting lance the second time do we kill her?

[limpid summit]

Bait

[ancient sinew]

Hmm. Ok. Vespa also trained Hornet so there goes their “isolationist” lifestyle ig

[terse warren]

Vespa being an old heart if Hallownest had any actually makes perfect sense

[ancient sinew]

That was post infection too

[timber pond]

Steel Seer Zi and Steel soul jinn should be descendant of "the masters" and JiJi and Sula Should be equivalent of them as "vassals"

[ancient sinew]

How’d they even meet

[terse warren]

Me when Silksong has a retcon (it's the 5th one)

[fossil tendon]

Vessels or Vassals

[lone folio]

I guess but that's never confirmed anywhere at all

[timber pond]

Vassals

[fossil tendon]

Like when a Country gives a smaller population a bit of its land?

[lone folio]

Vsauce (I am so incredibly funny)

[random aspen]

my headcanon is that herrah and vespa were friends and they both disliked pk

[terse warren]

She perfectly fits the description except for well being dead

[lone folio]

Khanns dead

[terse warren]

He's not

[charred nimbus]

We are not sure about that

[lone folio]

Oh?

[charred nimbus]

Khan is very implied to be hibernating

[random aspen]

doesnt he turn to dust tho 💔

[terse warren]

He turns to Crust after you kill him, which only alive Karakas do

[charred nimbus]

*before we kill him

[timber pond]

Watcher at the edge implies that they can be resurrected in some way. Mabye with Water?

[random aspen]

they should use bile water

[terse warren]

The fossilized ones just break apart instead

[sacred heath]

Jesse what are you talking about

[barren beacon]

Hornet says a part of her wants to replace GMS when talking with Caretaker, right? Does her weaver side like, always seek control or something?

[terse warren]

That's the PK side

[barren beacon]

Oh

[edgy barn]

"My Knight... At last you are freed.
Small thing. I know your kind.
If you attempt to resolve your past then know I am not the queen you seek.
It is the pale beings that bear blame for your nature.
Though this hive exists within Hallownest, we play no part in its attempt at perpetuation."

[random aspen]

why is khann hibernating on a throne? to aura farm? is he stupid?

[lone folio]

Would make sense if you need to have the old hearts be alive for the elegy of the deep to work, would explain why we don't get to fight both clover dancers since only one is alive and the other is a silk memory thing

[fossil tendon]

What do you think of the Graph now tho?

[barren beacon]

Steel Assasin Sharps is canon? Wasn't It Cut Content?

[timber pond]

The memento you get for beating watcher at the edge

[foggy fractal]

plus theres dialogue that hints at his existence in game rn

[random aspen]

if we get a steel stuff dlc hopefully its not only for steel soul

[edgy barn]

...what the fuck is eruststone?

[edgy stone]

Nope all dlc for steel soul

[charred nimbus]

I tought of Steel souls and steel seers more like knights, but anyway they're pretty much servants too

[edgy stone]

27 bosses locked to steel soul

[sacred heath]

might be a typo

[lone folio]

Some sort of wiki shenanigans, those happen often

[timber pond]

💀 maybe. maybe not....😭

[fossil tendon]

@vivid kernel so?

[edgy stone]

Absrad+ great grand mother silk fight locked to steel soul

[edgy barn]

Steel Soul exclusive Final Boss, if you thought Groal's runback was bad.

[random aspen]

they add silk soul trust

[gloomy heart]

thats is NOT summoned savior 🥀

[lone folio]

Now this isn't a great example of wikis being wrong since Zango is our summoned saviour

[timber pond]

Well the question is what would the requiremnts be and what the hell would that consist of

[fossil tendon]

AI bad

[mint stratus]

i want it on record that trobbio has multiple purple feather pens, when I came back after taking it he’d already replaced it in the span of 5 seconds

[random aspen]

if steel soul is mandatory to unlock smth im honestly just gonna cheat it in 💔

[lone folio]

He killed alot of whatever the feathers come from I don't remember the name

[timber pond]

You could just save scum a steel soul playthrough lol

[edgy barn]

Hungry Knight mechanics

[random aspen]

i died to the first ant gauntlet above far fields on my steel soul run

[lone folio]

Or just stole them.. He defently stole them

[timber pond]

If you quit before you die you dont. so thats the chesse really. same as in hollow knight

[lone folio]

If I was in an apocalypse and needed a quill for writing I would break into the local library and take some

[random aspen]

what if you get knocked into an obstacle

its ggs

[timber pond]

Just pause in time or something idk lol

thats the trick of it

[random aspen]

i think the saws in underworks should do 2 masks and all steam should do 1 mask

ok wait i need to talk about lore

[mint stratus]

All I’ll say is avoid the volt area with a passion, lost a 23 hour act 3 save because both the spikes and the volt beam individually did 2 masks

[edgy barn]

Wasn't all the enviromental double damage patched out other than lava?

[low cairn]

Who do you think is Widow's husband

[mint stratus]

Zote

[edgy barn]

nobody, that's her name.

[random aspen]

steam does 2

[charred nimbus]

for you to be a widow you needed to have a husband or a wife at sometime in the past

[edgy barn]

She is Widow, not a Widow.

Widow is her name.

[random aspen]

i think her name is basede on the spider widow

[mint stratus]

Species of spider

[charred nimbus]

I don't remember black widows being weavers but alright, that's fair i guess lol

[lone folio]

Also why does trobbio get to be so close to the vaults? Wouldnt his performance be distracting the vault bugs? Actually wait I don't think that stage is even his since the signs look like the cogflies from high halls. Wait was that stage owned by the meastros and then this random thespain showed upp and took it for himself?? I did find it odd how the sign doesn't actually show anything related to the performer

[edgy barn]

Sucks to hear.

[edgy barn]

Trobbio most likely arrived after things went to hell.

The citadel doesn't seem like the type that would tolerate his antics, specially not the murder.

[charred nimbus]

If you go throught the theory that Trobbio arrived after the fall of the citadel, that stage was problaby a place where vaultkeepers used to preach

[lone folio]

Then what's the point of having cogflies there and having a mini version of the citadel?

[edgy barn]

Trobbio doesn't use cogflies

[lone folio]

Yeah

[random aspen]

trobbio is such a missed opportunity

wisp thicket is right there

[lone folio]

Why would the citadel bugs need cogflies for preaching? I mean cogflies do sing and meastros probably used them for that purpose so I that makes sense atleast

[random aspen]

maybe that would make it too similar to grimm troupe

[prisma quail]

What is the significance of this rune harp?

[edgy barn]

...I mean you just provided the explanation so,

[lone folio]

When I saw wisp thicket I thought I would get to fight or meet trobbio again

[lone folio]

I came to the conclusion myself hell yeah

[random aspen]

that whole area is a nothingburger

[timber pond]

(They Nerfed Cogwork Core and Blasted steeps, underworks and lava are the only 2 mask things now)

[lone folio]

So true

But I still like it for some reason

[random aspen]

its unique

fire is cool

[edgy barn]

The Weavers ruling the citadle transfer power to the conductors, and prepare to die and be buried in the spires you see through Pharloom in order to aid a weaverkin they expect to come defeat GMS in the future.

[timber pond]

If we got a memories of pharloom DLC Greymoor would be entirely Wisp thicket

[lone folio]

It needs something more then a bad boss fight

[timber pond]

Waiter waiter, add another reason to make a Deep memory DLC

[edgy barn]

No, it would be a farm.

Alongside Sinner's Road

[timber pond]

Im pretty sure the thicket is what greymoor looked like

[lone folio]

And a bad tool

[timber pond]

before industry

[edgy barn]

We are told by NPC dialogue that Greymoor + Sinner's Road used to grow crops before the citadel took power.

[timber pond]

yeah but like it could be both

look like wisp thicket and grow food

[charred nimbus]

So sinners road just went from agriculture to cattle raising, but it's a farm, that checks

[prisma quail]

How were they not free with GMS in her sleep?

[lone folio]

I feel like the area where underworks is would have more of wisp thicket

[gentle aspen]

she’s still alive

So they didn’t feel free

[prisma quail]

Also what spires are you referring to?

[edgy barn]

You need space to grow crops, and have the necessary infrastructure, and materials to build that infrastructure.

[lone folio]

Because she was waking upp slowly and no amount of silk and song would stop her

[edgy barn]

If the moors ever looked like the wisp thicket, it would probably been before anybody actually lived there.

[charred nimbus]

I'm pretty sure the vaultkeeper also used music to preach and the maestros are being the rich guys in high halls pretty much, but yeah

[lone folio]

If the entire point of your existence is too keep something locked away are you free?

[edgy barn]

The things you find the weaver corpses in.

[charred nimbus]

And keeping something at sleep that is slowly waking up too

[barren beacon]

Is jiji Jinn's Vassal?

[random aspen]

did the weavers ever try to pull a hollow knight and make a weaver strong enough to defeat gms

and fail cus they suck

[lone folio]

Pretty sure that's what Eva is???

[prisma quail]

Where did we find out about her slowly waking up

[charred nimbus]

Hornet is kinda of that tho

[random aspen]

oh yeahhh

poor eva

[edgy barn]

I like to imagine that the citadel originally intended to keep Sinner's Road growing crops, but the pollution coming from above eventually made that unviable.

[random aspen]

probably easy to debunk but what if herrah wanted kids with pale king so hornet can defeat gms in the future

mhm yep

[charred nimbus]

I'm not sure that was Herrah objective, but the weavers really took advantage of that or tried to

[edgy barn]

...I just realized that you can hear and see Green Prince's heart beating in the bellhome.

[charred nimbus]

So they couldn't keep the polution from damaging the place they got food from but they're able to keep a pretty damn good water source in high halls for the rich guys?

[lone folio]

I feel like it's just somewhat obvious? What else would she do in a trap just sit there do nothing for the rest of eternity? She has probably been trying to get out for years and the trap would weaken overtime

[prisma quail]

It is obvious but I never saw it directly mentioned

[ember crypt]

i just noticed that in the inventory when you select one of your ancestral arts it says that it's a certain type of weaver technique, example: needolin is holy weaver and cling grip is an ancient weaver technique, i feel like this'll be important if there's a dlc or maybe im just crazy

[lone folio]

Oh yeah I could of just said "no we don't but it makes sense"

Man I'm so intelligent

[edgy barn]

It's not their food anyways, they clearly don't care about the quality of life of...well, anybody really.

[charred nimbus]

That actually really annoys me because i hate heart beats sounds, but i have to tolerate it because i like the memento

[edgy barn]

Cling Grip and Silk Soar are Ancient, Swift Step is Fabled, Clawline is Advanced, and Needolin is Holy.

[ember crypt]

yeah that's what im talking about i wonder if there's a lore importance to that

[lone folio]

Could give us some information on the Weavers in the shrines. Wait what are the silk skill descriptions since I know they also have unique text about them

[flat palm]

So, if the surface of hallownest is to the left of blasted steps (assuming, since hornet was brought from that direction), does that mean nameless town is even higher up than crystal peak?

[limpid summit]

Maybe, maybe not

There could be dips and hills in the wastes

Not like it’s definitely lower

[edgy barn]

Swift Step
Sprint at blinding speed, beyond one's natural limits.
Chase down prey and leap great distances.

Cling Grip
Cling to sheer surfaces and leap to rapidly scale heights.

Needolin
Play ancient melodies by stringing Silk along the needle.
Silk will be expended. Strike enemies to replenish Silk.

Clawline
Fling the needle as a harpoon and launch forcefully towards it.
Silk will be expended. Strike enemies to replenish Silk.

Silk Soar
Fling the needle upwards and launch to tremendous heights.
Silk will be expended. Strike enemies to replenish Silk.

Sylphsong
Eva's soul and strength reside within.
Silk will regenerate when resting at a bench.

[ember crypt]

that or it could be on how some of the weavers lived, like holy weavers were into religion and stuff and invented the art of the needolin, probably not though

[lone folio]

Yeah this too

[compact escarp]

Any reason why the craws summon hornet to their court?

[random aspen]

some people want hornet to fight the shade lord in the godhome dlc but that just doesnt make sense at all lorewise right? it makes way more sense if she fought void gms since hornet has 0 reason to fight shade lord

shade lord literally saves her why would she ever fight it 💔

[lone folio]

They knew that Hornet brought the void into pharloom and wanted to kill or imprison her or something along those lines

[random aspen]

also shes not strong enough at all i think post silksong hornet wont even stand a chance against pure vessel let alone big ass shade lord

[lone folio]

She has the everbloom

[compact escarp]

I see

[random aspen]

realistically thats doing jack shit

[edgy barn]

They know she is partially to blame for the Void disaster and are sentencing her to Death.

[lone folio]

If you read the crawfather journal entry you will get most of the info

[charred nimbus]

i would prefer if Hornet fought the birthed twisted bud as final boss of phanteom

[random aspen]

even with the everbloom she struggles against a void lace

[lone folio]

"jack shit" as shadelord gets deleted in the other godhome ending

[random aspen]

more like contained

[edgy barn]

Silksong Hornet can definetly beat Pure Vessel. She also should definetly not be able to beat the shade lord.

[lone folio]

Where does he get contained?

[random aspen]

could be like a cool side thing, but i dont think that would make sense

[random aspen]

in godhome 😭

it just makes godseeker disappear

[charred nimbus]

i honestly think it makes perfect sense, they didn't make a secret ending with a omnious and powerful creature being born for no reason imo

[random aspen]

yeah but its a seperate ending

if it was a part of the true ending it would make total sense

unless godhome can pull shit from different timelines or something

[charred nimbus]

i don't think it being a secret ending excludes the possibility of being a fight in the main thing

[vestal swan]

It ate her tho, they can't fight

[vestal swan]

It kills the mc

You can't fight it

[lone folio]

But if godseeker gets deleted then godhome goes down with her no?

[charred nimbus]

If that's true in every logic wise they did a secret ending like that for no reason

[random aspen]

i find it kinda weird that everbloom is just from some random place zemer lived and wasnt created by like the white lady or something

[charred nimbus]

we know Hornet didn't die

[edgy barn]

It's your reward for beating GMS while cursed.

[random aspen]

is there only 1 godseeker

[edgy barn]

She did.

[charred nimbus]

A second long reward with a open ending type shit that has no conclusions in the current state of the game? 😭

[vestal swan]

As far as we know only one is alive in the physical world

[charred nimbus]

I mean in the canon ending

[lone folio]

There's only one in the real world

[random aspen]

how would we access godhome in pharloom

[lone folio]

Atleast that we see

[ember crypt]

needolin probably

[random aspen]

no like from who

[ember crypt]

oh yeah

[vestal swan]

In the ending where hornet doesn't die the root baby has already died I think

[random aspen]

assuming therse only 1

[flat palm]

I'd like for sk's godhome to be memory-related, that way we could have bosses like the knight and queen vespa

[ember crypt]

they're probably going to add a chapel that teleports you to godhome if you play the needolin in a specific area

[edgy barn]

Well, the quest is not exactly mandatory.

[random aspen]

it'll never make sense for hornet to fight the knight

[tall sandal]

Where is an appropriate place to discuss a massive true ending spoiler? Just noticed a very interesting detail about the final cutscene

[random aspen]

also wont make sense if she managse to beat the knight

[edgy barn]

You are in the right place.

[compact escarp]

Is gilly survived at act 3 even if i only met her once?

[charred nimbus]

I know, i'm just trying to figure it out what is the point of having that ending in the game if it doesn't mean anything, and if it's just a reward, what kinda of reward is this bro 😭

[edgy barn]

Gilly never dies

[lone folio]

Very appropriate channel for this

[random aspen]

pretty sure you meet them again in act 3

[ember crypt]

i hope the ss dlc is either going to be pantheons of pharloom or lifeblood related, or maybe even expanding on the discarded silk creations of grandmother silk like lace and phantom
having an area where enemies crawl out of something like hornet's silk cocoon would be cool

[sinful nimbus]

True ending spoilers are fine, what did you think of the shade lord bossfight

[charred nimbus]

City of steel: hold my beer

[ember crypt]

oh yeah that too

[foggy fractal]

here

[random aspen]

99% sure we're getting godhome as the last dlc

[tall sandal]

These aren't Ghost's horns! They're longer. I'm pretty sure these are the proportions of the young Hollow Knight. At first I thought it was Ghost, so either he's still getting older while in the Void, or it was actually Hornet's original sibling who came to save her

[foggy fractal]

those are the horns of the knight

[sinful nimbus]

This is what its shade looks like in Dream No More

[foggy fractal]

give dnm a good look again

[edgy barn]

These are in fact Ghost's horns in the Dream No More ending.

[foggy fractal]

like watch the whole fight

[charred nimbus]

The voided knight sprite looks like this

[flat palm]

Could just pull memory shenanigans I guess, but even if that doesn't happen, they could still make some other cool fights (maybe the hunter from the first game, since they mention an encounter with hornet in the journal)

[tall sandal]

Ah interesting, I never noticed that!

[random aspen]

hornet beats up baby knight

[tall sandal]

Ah yep, just took another look

Either way it was hype as hell

I see I'm late to this discussion ahah

[random aspen]

i wish we get to see hk in ss dlcs

my goat is starving

[charred nimbus]

I remember when i entered act 3 and i predicted the final ending and my friend said i missed my prediction because who saved Hornet was not the knight 😭

[visual glacier]

How do people confuse the knight shade with thk shade

They are so different bro

[sinful nimbus]

Well this is what young THK looks like too

At least for its horns

[tall sandal]

Those are very similar to young HK's horns, and I hadn't seen the DNM ending in a while!

[lone folio]

He has grown upp a bit or he has gained more control over the void since his void tendrils are much much larger, or it's to make him look cooler which is also a good reason

[craggy smelt]

they're becoming more 'Shade Lord' ish

[gray iris]

is hornets mom morbidly obese or a different type of bug?

[craggy smelt]

takes a while to lose the baby weight, be polite

[gray iris]

if hornets mom is morbidly obese what is the lore reason she is morbidly obese

[timber pond]

I would rather Him have a god of war scale bug game where hes captured by the Steel City, Hornet then assaults the steel city cause she's annoyed that Sharpe is chasing her everywhere And the Steel City is actually a big moving bug like a titan From a xenoblade game. then THK gets freed from the chaos and He gets a little Friend to interpret to others for him. Thank you for coming To my Fanfiction

[lone folio]

Oh probably. we litterly get to see shade lord when the knight appears, only reason we got to see shade lord in godhome is because godhome brings out the potential in bugs if I recall correctly

Or the potential of anything in that matter

[gray iris]

if hornets mom is made from a fat roach getting silked rather than a crab spider then what is the lore reason a fat roach got silkd

[edgy barn]

I'm surprised that so many people remember what baby THK looked lke, but not the fact its shade was fully grown in DNM.

[craggy smelt]

yeah, the flash of Shadelord could be an allusion to what TK will become eventually, even without the Godseekers power

[timber pond]

Nah more like

This thing has a city on its back BTW

[lone folio]

Yeah godhome just super sped the process upp but it's gonna happen eventually

[gray iris]

if hornets mom is roach the hornet is part roach rather than spider which makes no sense

and if hornet were roach she would be fat which she is not so either she is a baby roach or her mom is morbidly obese

[tall sandal]

Also another note, I love Hornet's apparent soft spot for fluffy things lol

[timber pond]

i want THK to be alive though and thats the only reason i like the Godhome endings more

[gray iris]

imagine hornets mom trying to scuttle around like the first sinner she would break all her stubby little legs and die

it is so sad that hornets mom is morbidly obese

[random aspen]

its so hot

woah woah woah

https://tenor.com/view/gülmek-komik-gif-1506407869824367367

[lone folio]

Well he probably is alive but he's just a shade in the void sea like the knight

He completely lost his shell but he's still alive

[random aspen]

godhome ending no everbloom is canon

[lone folio]

Proof

[random aspen]

so hes 100% alive

[random aspen]

the shade lord 💔

[visual glacier]

Not proof

[lone folio]

If godhome ending no everbloom was true we would get the entire shadelord not just 2 flashes of him on screen, as was said before the knight is learning to control the void and he's slowly becoming the shade lord.

[visual glacier]

Could be flower we don’t know what happens and it only appears for a second so could be dnm

[random aspen]

ending 4 embrace the void

the knight turns into the shade lord and escapes godhome

literally what else is there

[visual glacier]

Dude

[timber pond]

I meant alive outside of the void because it would lead to more interesting content down the road

[visual glacier]

Are you stupid or something

[lone folio]

Ah

That would be pretty cool

[timber pond]

Like think about this for a second

You are Team cherry, Last piece of Content you add to hollow knight is a clifhanger that poses the question to you: "WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO HORNET AND THE HOLLOW KNIGHT?! STAY TUNED ON THE NEXT EPISODE"

Would you proceed to answer only half of that question?

[lone folio]

And then he turns tiny for no reason?

[timber pond]

and then just do nothing else with the other half?

[lone folio]

And loses his total control over the void?

[timber pond]

idk feels kinda shit

[random aspen]

that maks sense, thanks for actually telling me that instead of saying no and calling me stupid ❤️

[random aspen]

i mean we dont know how the shade lord form works

[lone folio]

Insults are only for those who are completely lost in speculation and bad evidence

[random aspen]

it could be either ending tbh

[mint stratus]

Is relic seeker scrounge the same species as the psalm guy?

[visual glacier]

No

Not as far as we know

[lone folio]

But like so lost in speculation that it's hard to even justify it being speculation

[limpid summit]

They may be

Could be a sort of collecting species

They look similar enough

[lone folio]

I thought that too and there's still a chance but I feel like dnm makes more sense

Oh yeah dnm is also in the main story since embrace the void is kind of an extra thing

So that's also something

[random aspen]

i just thought it was ending 4 cus since thats the only ending with the shade lord even appearing (and surviving) and i was confused at why the shade lords face would even appear in ss true ending when dream no more never showed him but it cuold just be him slowly turning into him

[lone folio]

I think

[random aspen]

also we dont see thk in ss ending and he is still vessel form in ending 4 but thats barely proof just pointing it out

ig if we ever see thk in ss dlc we'll truly know which ending is canon

but its like 70% dnm

[lone folio]

I thought the same but if you think about it then it doesn't make much sense compared to the knight slowly learning to control the void, if he really was "void given focus" then the void wouldn't be actively attacking Hornet unless he doesn't get control over that though I doubt it.

[foggy fractal]

yeah so far we can't say conclusively which ending between dnm and etv leads into silksong
we could always come up with an explanation for why it could be one ending (for example the knight is turning into vgfocus slowly and that's why its dnm, or its just hornet seeing the knight's untapped potential, or any other explanation that doesn't contradict whats in game) but we don't have any confirmation

[solemn compass]

What a nice drawing

[foggy fractal]

• pin
  Seth

[lone folio]

The only reason the shade lord appears is first of all: big hype
Second of all: the knight is only starting to become the shade lord so he hasn't fully gained his power yet (oh and it's kind of boring if he doesn't get included since that would make the godhome endings worthless for the lore)

[foggy fractal]

where'd you get the second reason from

[lone folio]

Guessing that the knight has only recently started to actually tap into the power or it takes a very long time. Otherwise I unfortunately don't have any proof

[foggy fractal]

that's fine so long as the game doesn't contradict it

or suggest otherwise

the way it is shown now is meant to be arguable for either ending

[lone folio]

Which is pretty awesome actually

To leave it upp to the player to make sense of everything is awesome

[random aspen]

hollow knight please show your face

[lone folio]

Oh yeah I feel like Hornet would atleast hint to the shade lord escaping godhome since that giant monstrosity would defently get noticed by her

Another thing to make dnm more likely

[fair tusk]

cant wait for mossbag to dissect this specific ore in verdania (no seriously is this geo?)

[sinful nimbus]

Looks like a bit of shellshard to me

[lone folio]

If shade lord did escape Hornet would of defently noticed and I feel like she would talk about the god of void when she sees void

[random aspen]

could just be small shard

[fair tusk]

i hit it and nothing happens, there were no shell shards there before

[foggy fractal]

hello UniUniUniUniUniUniUniUniUni

[lone folio]

An isopod family just fossilized in verdania

[sinful nimbus]

I haven't watched uni for a while

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but visually it resembles shellshards so I'm going to assume that's what they are

[lone folio]

Wait no is it a isopod family or is it an isopod family.. Dang it i can't figure out simple grammar

[limpid summit]

Pale drip on

[lone folio]

Ok it is "an isopod family" i was right

[lone folio]

What

[vital ruin]

Still waiting for someone to mod any of this

[random aspen]

beast always gets the best in all of these

and architect

[lone folio]

Architect always feels over detailed

[vital ruin]

Another one

[random aspen]

probably my fav

[lone folio]

These are my favourites

[random aspen]

cus the cloak changes theyre not all red

but still nobody really knows how to do witch 😭

[lone folio]

They are shades of red

So awesome!

[vital ruin]

I like the beast making them look similar to the Skarr Ants

[random aspen]

yeah you know i mean like all the same exact red

[fair tusk]

saw an architect desing where multiple mechanical hands came out of hornets cloak to throw the tools

[vital ruin]

The red seems fairly alright considering it was Hornet's cloak that she weaved when she was still young

[lone folio]

Maybe make an imprint of a root in her shell to show off the fact that there was a parasite inside of hornet before?

[random aspen]

would be cool if her mask had some intricate design yeah

[vital ruin]

For each crest yeh maybe a subtle change on her mask

[random aspen]

and the roots curled up her horns more

[vital ruin]

Would've been a nice detail

[random aspen]

i wonder why they never did it

probably never came to their mind

[mint stratus]

Guys I think this should be in art discussion

[lone folio]

And then for the cloak make it have a Lil design of roots on it and then give her that fluff around her neck like in the artwork

Like having the actual roots show upp makes it look kind of silly and they don't fit the color scheme

[random aspen]

yeah mb im gonna start talking about how everbloom cant do much against void and its only temporary

we see in ss true ending hornet floating in the void and the flower just dying

[lone folio]

Oh yeah I forgot

[vital ruin]

Yep my bad

[random aspen]

maybe if hornet had a whole bouquet of them she can do something

[sinful nimbus]

It lasts less time in the abyss than GMS 🥀

It doesn't even have a reason to break, the true ending didn't need an action scene

[random aspen]

but its not like shes entirely immune to void with everbloom anyways since void attacks still hit her

[lone folio]

I mean that is because of how much void the everbloom needed to defend itself from. everytime the everbloom touches void it obliterates that void but it starts losing it petals but if the shade lord did fight Hornet I feel like he would touch it and get his hand poofed (or he gets poofed but that's not cool enough)

[random aspen]

i think hornet with everbloom can beat pure vessel

he has that 1 void attack that would instantly kill her i assume

[sinful nimbus]

Just shove it in the eye hole

[random aspen]

shade lord has so much void he can keep trying until the everbloom dies

[barren beacon]

So could eve be considered a higher being? Or is she just a failed experiment

[random aspen]

weavers arent higher beings so i think shes just a failed experiment

[limpid summit]

The rune harp that talks about Eva says she is “divinity mimicked”

But they hate her for it

“Hide her deep, the despised child, our shame shown in shell of iron. She is a wish cast vain, divinity mimicked in form too frail.”

They hate themselves for trying to create a higher being and failing

[twilit schooner]

do we know who could possibly have written the marrows lore tablet? the one hinting at the silken sickness from an outsiders prespective

[teal drift]

I think its also possibly about greyroot tbh

[sinful nimbus]

Weaver moment

Herrah upscale

Literally the only based weaver

[foggy fractal]

yeah weavers kinda suck
except for Herrah

[sinful nimbus]

First Sinner is based too I guess

[foggy fractal]

has herrah done anything bad like ever

[sinful nimbus]

She made Hornet

[foggy fractal]

ok tbf Herrah didn't have much time with Hornet

maybe if she was alive longer Hornet wouldve been more based

[sinful nimbus]

shrue

White Lady is also based which means the only culprit for Hornet's unbasedness is Vespa 💔

[foggy fractal]

hey star wanna see the steel master fake screenshot I'm working on
it includes: a sketch of the steel master
that's it

[sinful nimbus]

Sure

[random aspen]

beast crest hornet is what i imagine her to be like if she was raised by herrah

the angry garama

[random aspen]

widow did nothing wrong trust

[dire sinew]

what is the deal with first sinner

[muted lantern]

i think she might have sinned first

[summer mauve]

Sorry to necro. Left for a while and still curious about this.
Is there ever a lore reason given as to why some bugs still possess a mind outside of Hollownest and other don't? I know Mossbag had some theories about masks. Is there anything else?

[charred nimbus]

Beast crest hornet is how I imagine hornet, that girl should have emotional problems

[dire sinew]

thank you for the thoughtful analysis

[fossil tendon]

Is there anyone who is like
A super strong person bound in the body of something that isn’t?

Like Soraka from League, for instance

[orchid whale]

So what? She apostated? Doctors do that to patients all the time.

[sinful nimbus]

was going around saying weavers weren't divine children so they had to lock her up

Since that was their false claim to power, in actuality they are magically modified Pharlids

[orchid whale]

I will not elaborate

[foggy fractal]

he will not elaborate

[fossil tendon]

That’s a disgusting joke

But it is funny.

[random aspen]

radiance is in hk but hk is op

[charred nimbus]

He actually didn't elaborate

[dire sinew]

how does this play into the capitalism bad metaphor 🤔

[fossil tendon]

Is the infection a divinely powered thing though

Or is it like bug cancer

[summer mauve]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

Well its also about theocracy. The weavers made a religion which put them in a place of power

[summer mauve]

Divinely powered bug cancer

[charred nimbus]

I mean, I agree with the guy who stated that Pharloom is a theocracy rather then just bad capitalism metaphor

[sinful nimbus]

It is both though

[charred nimbus]

We passed the mark of 1 month of silksong a long time ago and I think nobody here will know what the fuck my name means anymore

[sinful nimbus]

Efos Le duh

[slow olive]

How is pharloom a bad capitalism metaphor

[charred nimbus]

Just try to survive underworks

[fossil tendon]

It’s not it’s brilliant

Though as much as I hate capitalism I wish my games would represent other things too

[charred nimbus]

The bad part is referring to capitalism and not the metaphor

[fossil tendon]

What does this mean

[vestal swan]

Capitalism requires economy, this is all just religious bullshit.
Your reward for work is more work

[slow olive]

Oh so capitalism bad metaphor?

[sinful nimbus]

Underworks does pay you

But you just use that money to buy benches or confess sins and then you get right back to work

[fossil tendon]

So it being a metaphor for capitalism is bad not how it represents it? Or something else

[charred nimbus]

Yes, a metaphor for bad capitalism

[sinful nimbus]

Woke...

[fossil tendon]

Bad capitalism implies good capitalism

[vestal swan]

[sinful nimbus]

Like the good US of A

[slow olive]

Im more on this line of thinking tbh

[fossil tendon]

I either work myself to death or I work myself to spiritual death

(At least how I took most of SS’ metaphors)

[charred nimbus]

Get rich or get paid trying

[slow olive]

Like loam isnt working for a better future or whatever, his work is pushed by his devotion

[fossil tendon]

Who is Loam

[vestal swan]

You'll work yourself to death and thank god for it

[fossil tendon]

No actually I think I won’t do that

[slow olive]

The big bug running the gears in underworks

[fossil tendon]

Still need to meet him

Oh hey Lumpy

[vestal swan]

Whichever one says religion is the main problem that's the right answer

[fossil tendon]

Both of these things are problems

[slow olive]

Heyyy

[sinful nimbus]

Woah woah lets not get political

[fossil tendon]

I don’t want to work myself to death , ESPECIALLY because some big stupid spider in the sky wants me to

GMS is a spider right

[vestal swan]

No

[slow olive]

Maybe

A pale spider

[charred nimbus]

No

[vestal swan]

GMS isn't a spider, rad isn't a moth and Grimm is spooky

[fossil tendon]

A pale spider is a spider

[foggy fractal]

no grimm is lame

not spooky scary at all !

[fossil tendon]

Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive

[orchid whale]

She's made of needles and thread and has a more humanoid body, no spider features.
Though given the possibility to grow extra arms and silk production, the spider DNA might be there.

[charred nimbus]

You could've stopped at the "not spooky" part 😔

[slow olive]

I guess pale king is the only one of the pale beings that has a category, him being a wyrm and all

[orchid whale]

Grimm is a bat why are you marking this as wrong?
Like this is so blatant

[vestal swan]

All of the things called spiders she is not genetically related to

[fossil tendon]

She lives in a big ball of silk and has like 8 arms

[vestal swan]

Because he's not a bat?

[fossil tendon]

That seems really spider adjacent

[slow olive]

Oh i got it, if PK is a wyrm then GMS is a spyder

[sinful nimbus]

Grimm is stated to be a mashup of Halloween trope, bats obviously among them, but this does not make them his actual species

[craggy smelt]

Yeah, PK basically enchanted the region of Hallownest to grant higher intelligence to certain bugs - Mossbag referred to is as 'a literal holy ground' and I think that's a good way of putting it
bugs that were granted intelligence by the Pale King's power will lose that power if they leave Hallownest, since that's where the power was invested
bugs that are naturally intelligent will have that intelligence wherever they go

[sinful nimbus]

In universe Grimm isn't really any type of being, he's a magical vessel for a deity

[orchid whale]

Yeah what WAS I thinking

[charred nimbus]

Count dracula isn't a bat tho

[fossil tendon]

I bet Grimm gives great hugs

[slow olive]

In seriousness tho GMS seems to just be a pale being that likes the arachnid species

[summer mauve]

He's not a bat. He's just an overdramatic goth

[orchid whale]

Wdym that's his whole thing

Vampires are like
Bat people

[vestal swan]

Not bats

[fossil tendon]

But still is this a description of a character in the hk universe: Is there anyone who is like
A super strong person bound in the body of something that isn’t?

[vestal swan]

Neither is Grimm

[slow olive]

Bat-themed then?

[vestal swan]

Huh?

[fossil tendon]

Wdym huh

[slow olive]

We can agree they carry themes of their respective animals at least tho right

[sinful nimbus]

Wha

[fossil tendon]

What are you huh’ing for

[vestal swan]

I mean nothing you said made sense I can't tell what you're asking

[slow olive]

GMS is definitely spider themed

[sinful nimbus]

Huh guh and wha

[fossil tendon]

I think what I said make sense, what didn’t make sense

[orchid whale]

Why did you delete that??

I was genuinely responding

[sinful nimbus]

gorg orell

[fossil tendon]

84??

[orchid whale]

That wasn't a meme

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway in-universe he has nothing to do with bats

[orchid whale]

The image was literally to depict confusion

[vestal swan]

That wasn't a meme (attaches a giant ass meme)

[rough parcel]

Guys, I dont think z'emer is actually from pharloom, it was never confirmed yea?

[vestal swan]

She's not

[orchid whale]

What are you talking about? I was using it as an emoji

[fossil tendon]

Like
Is there a silk song or hollow knight character that is like a god or extremely strong thing stuck in the body of a non god

[slow olive]

I dont think so

[rough parcel]

She uses a huge nail, there aint even nails in pharloom

[slow olive]

Zemer is from a place abundant with everblooms

[orchid whale]

Oh I LOVE how kind these mods are

[sinful nimbus]

Her dialect doesn't match Pharloom's and there's also a distinct lack of Everblooms there

If you take offense to a that's kinda on you

[fossil tendon]

Was Hollownest a kingdom

[vestal swan]

??? I already said she wasn't from there

[slow olive]

Mhm it was

[sinful nimbus]

and are like breathing. If you don't like you don't like #sk-lore

[fossil tendon]

What do you call it when both a man and a woman rule something together

[charred nimbus]

Maybe Grimm falls in that description, just maybe tho

[rough parcel]

I never said you didnt, Im adding more

[orchid whale]

It just feels condescending to do

[vestal swan]

The kingdom and the region share a name but yes

[fossil tendon]

This seems true

[slow olive]

Uhh a monarchy? I think

[fossil tendon]

Oh you’re so fucking right

[craggy smelt]

a recipe for disaster, mirite?!

[covert night]

also this ->

[foggy fractal]

anyway its not like there's anything in the game saying that Grimm is a bat
just because he acts like one doesn't mean he is one, that's more to do with his whole dracula castlevania inspiration

[fossil tendon]

Disaster?!?!? I hardly know her, mirite?!?!?

[slow olive]

So grimm is more vampire-theme then

[sinful nimbus]

Dracula ripoff

[fossil tendon]

Can Grimm be a bat because him not following the bug rule is really fitting

[sinful nimbus]

Wait the pregnant m an in addition to the wrong emoji is cooking

[slow olive]

I mean silksong has a good number of npcs that arent even bugs

[sinful nimbus]

Powdered you better start doing that it could be your thing

[slow olive]

More so plants

[fossil tendon]

WHAT

Is that true

[rough parcel]

Is the wiki accurate? Because if so its pretty much that he is a bat, since all the attacks in the wiki have "bat" on it ig

[sinful nimbus]

Wiki is fanmade

[covert night]

which wiki

[fossil tendon]

I’m fan made

[sinful nimbus]

Both

[rough parcel]

Eh then nvm

[slow olive]

Some like the pollip npc is definitely not a bug

[fossil tendon]

Pollip npc

Who is that?

[slow olive]

Forgot the name lmao

The one that curses u

[foggy fractal]

those are fan made names anyway
they don't have a citation too

[fossil tendon]

Someone show Pollip npc pls

[covert night]

he resembles a bat but that's never confirmed

[rough parcel]

Then nothing is confirmed

[foggy fractal]

yep

[charred nimbus]

Greyroot

[covert night]

yeah she is a plant

[vestal swan]

Polip?

[fossil tendon]

Fuck your so right Groot isn’t a bug

[vestal swan]

Greyroot is a root

[fossil tendon]

Can roots be bugs though

[slow olive]

The stickbugs are

[vestal swan]

Nyleth is a polip(?) maybe

[slow olive]

Theyre bugs cosplaying as sticks

[fossil tendon]

So bug root is a real thing

[charred nimbus]

Stickbugs is a species of bugs that exist tho

[fossil tendon]

Does this mean Greyroot is a bug

[vestal swan]

While most things are called bugs despite what they look and act like I don't think the roots are ever called that

[slow olive]

Actually some of the shellwood enemies are closer to being plants than bugs right?

[orchid whale]

Are you actually petty enough to disable my reactions because I reacted to you after you did that to me?

[slow olive]

Yah thats what i meant heh

[vestal swan]

They're still called bugs

[charred nimbus]

The ones that are related to Nyleth yes

[rough parcel]

biologically no, but a majority of npcs are not even bugs, even in Hollow Knight with fog canyon and fungal wastes

[fossil tendon]

Oh my god I’m so upset they’re not all bugs

[rough parcel]

thats what I wonder, is monomon a bug or no

[fossil tendon]

I need to sleep on this. Farewell

[foggy fractal]

there is the comment about Nyleth more being plant than bug iirc ?

[slow olive]

Lmao sleep well

[native vine]

monomon is a jellyfish

[foggy fractal]

Caretaker: They're the very essence of the place, the nub of it all. Ain't really a bug, to be told, but a powerful presence nonetheless.

yeah this comment

[slow olive]

So.... can it be said that nyleth could be a higher being of some kind?

[sinful nimbus]

Where's the Nyleth x Isma sister fanart at

[slow olive]

Like unn for greenpath

[sinful nimbus]

Her feat isn't exactly as exceptional as Unn

[vestal swan]

In the trash where that theory belongs

[sinful nimbus]

Why do you not believe that theory

[vestal swan]

Not as good as Unn bc Unn is the best

[slow olive]

Nyleth's said to be the very source of all of shellwood right?

[sinful nimbus]

They are morphologically very similar and they both established their own unique ecosystems

[vestal swan]

But Nyleth has better feats than others

[slow olive]

Or just the wood, the bugs just got attracted to it or smth

[vestal swan]

And she controlled it while alive

[covert night]

not confirmed yet

[slow olive]

Yea, and even protected bugs that journeyed through it

[orchid whale]

Someone a while ago had a theory I kinda like- that the old leaders of Pharloom all had bodies capable of influencing the environments.
This is why the Green Prince's corpse sproutes fauna you'd only see in Lost Verdania, and how Verdania died out- the princes were taken away, and even their corpses are capable of influencing the space around them.
Nyleth is kinda like Unn in giving life.
Khann can control coral with his mind or something.
And one of the NPC's when talking to Hornet talks about how, with Karmelita dead, the Far Fields will lose a lot of its lushness.

[vestal swan]

How are they morphologically similar

They both vaguely have plant bodies? Cuz we don't know what alive Isma looks like besides a leaf skirt

[half zenith]

Not necessarily a “is this canon” discussion but I theorize that Hornet actually lost a lot of her learned skills because she suffered a serious hit to the head from fall damage and god I need a whump fanfic where Hornet suffers the consequences of said concussion

[slow olive]

I didnt even notice the green prince corpse sprouting fauna

That and the cage seal did a real number on her

Oh the silk that broke the bridge was hers right

[vestal swan]

The green prince corpses is very recent addition to the game

[sinful nimbus]

They both have plantlike bodies yes they are also both rooted to the wall and have a similar mask and they both established unique ecosystems in their respective areas

[slow olive]

Did hornet do that on purpose or just a reflex

She looked surprised during the entire opening cutscene when the silk bind thing happened

[vestal swan]

And some of the achievements and quests are literally named regaining and regenerating, she definitely lost some strength and technique on the journey over, if the low blood sugar passing out moments didn't tell you enough

[sinful nimbus]

The only thing I think is missing is the yellow bulb Nyleth has

[slow olive]

Hornet's low on iron confirmed

[sinful nimbus]

Also is it just pale court brainrot or did Nyleth's sprite look really fanmade

[half zenith]

Yeah. I like to interpret the player stumbling around struggling with learning the controls/unlearning HK muscle memory as Hornet struggling to make her body move how she wants it to through her many injuries

[vestal swan]

I mean it looked very basic compared to the rest of the game

[orchid whale]

They do have similarities, even if nothing concrete.
They're both found etched into walls.
While it may just be a skirt, Isma does have flora covering her lower body.
Pointy noses with rounded tip "hair"
It's not a theory that has definitive proof, but them being a similar or variation of the same race might not be out of the question.

[vestal swan]

Her stun animation made me die laughing

🥀

[sinful nimbus]

The shading is wonky

[vestal swan]

Yeah kind of like how hollow Knight characters by comparison are like low res

[sinful nimbus]

UNDENIABLE proof act 3 is RUSHED SLOP

[slow olive]

Damn

I dont see the wonky shading tho

[vestal swan]

!wiki nyleth

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Nyleth

Hollow Knight Wiki

Nyleth

Nyleth is a main boss in Hollow Knight: Silksong.

Theme

Nyleth

Location

Shellwood

Health

1250

Damage Modifiers (per weapon level)

1.5    1.25    1.1    1    0.91

Reward

Pollen Heart

Journal Kills

1

Gender

Female

[orchid whale]

I'm surprised not many people know this, but talking to the Chapel Maid at the start of the game has Hornet say the cage had sapped her, and that she expects to be at peak performance again by the time she gets to the top of the kingdom.
So it is actually canon that she lost a lot of her skills/got weaker upon the game starting.

[vestal swan]

Her roots are shaded and then like none of the rest of her is

[sinful nimbus]

Look at those disgusting static colors