sk-lore

[polar latch]

his father wasn't a wyrm. his father was a worm. peak fiction actually

"the Dim Ruler" or something

[edgy nebula]

is voltvyrm zote's dad confirmed?

[polar latch]

that's why he's so. uh. uhm. uh. he's so. zote...

yea I really like it and i really like my idea I just said about his father being a Worm

[gloomy heart]

watch bro’s father be someone crazy like crust king khann or some shit LMAO

[vestal swan]

Greyroot doesn't let her kids grow up though that's the problem with this theory

[polar latch]

Unless the pale king pulled a Joseph Joestar and got busy on a business trip to pharloom

[edgy nebula]

it makes sense cause gpz's background and associated color is pink/purple... clearly zote's dad is the voltvyrm and voltvyrm is the most important boss tc's ever made

[polar latch]

"mothers will always betray you". She tried to betray zote (not letting him grow up) but he managed to slip out of her grasp?

[gloomy heart]

The idea of the creature released in the cursed ending being another zote is hilarious lmao

[polar latch]

I was spoiled by the name of the voltvyrm and I was SO disappointed when I found it. i was imagining some sick ass electric worm dragon but no. Exposed wire

[vestal swan]

Oh my God it's Zornet

[polar latch]

OH GOD NO

it's just hornet but with eye bags and her name is Bee

[edgy nebula]

holy shit, idea

[gloomy heart]

zasp

[polar latch]

fun fact: did you know that ants and bees are actually just highly derived wasps?

[edgy nebula]

nevermind the ideas ass

[polar latch]

holy ball knowledge I have a zasp and mothiva plush

[vestal swan]

Zornet is a fan creation that is basically hornets parody character. She has the distinct old person-ness zote has butt hornets appearance. Of course this isn't real but it's hilarious to think that gray root came out looking like zornet

[mental vale]

Lore Project idea- Gather all the voice/talking sounds, and try to come up with the most lore/situation acurate translation of those sound clips to any of the other established human languages.

[polar latch]

someone's been working on this for a while iirc

[vestal swan]

They cannot be translated and it's been done, I should say attempted

[sinful nimbus]

We don't need a Zornet because Hornet in Silksong already basically reads like a parody of Hornet in Hollow Knight

[polar latch]

that reminds me, phantom and lace have very similar voice lines when attacking and I think that's neat!

[mental vale]

IE what would be the most definitive translation of Sherma's "Fa-re-du-la" song etc.

[vestal swan]

There isn't a translation

[polar latch]

nahhh I think hornets just a fake IDGAFer

[edgy nebula]

she clearly is cause the flies ragebait her

[gloomy heart]

Cant wait for the 113 laws of zornet

[polar latch]

she's also not burdened by the duty of protecting Hallownest this time around so she can afford to be herself some more

[sinful nimbus]

But the game wants you to think she's a real IDGAFer 🥀

[sinful nimbus]

Dang her real self is legit unlikeable

[foggy fractal]

wasn't there a comment from ari and william on how its just gibberish they write down

[sinful nimbus]

Bring back burdened Hornet

[polar latch]

like three different times she basically says "I won't risk my life to save you" but then immediately afterwards does just that

[vestal swan]

Who ever believed that she was a idgafer when she saved TK from collecting the king's brand

[sinful nimbus]

Me when I make stuff up 🥀

[vestal swan]

I mean we don't even need a dev comment here it is literally just gibberish, both written and spoken

[gloomy heart]

The whole reason she fights u is bc she doesnt want to do nothing if her mother is sbout to die lol

[polar latch]

?? She does this multiple times though, through both games

[sinful nimbus]

Proof for HK

[polar latch]

there's some obvious overlap (I think a couple characters say very similar words that likely mean similar things) but yeah it's not really translatable

then there's sly just saying Geo

[vestal swan]

The overlap is them reusing the same sound bites because they're not going to come up with 13,000 words for bug gibberish

[foggy fractal]

people will try to make sense of it anyway 😔

[polar latch]

nono not what I meant

[vestal swan]

I know what you mean

[sinful nimbus]

Guys what do you think the "Nuuuu nuuuu" part of Nuu's song translates too

[vestal swan]

It means shut the fuck up and go kill that thing so I can eat it

[sinful nimbus]

Quite

[vestal swan]

Nuu is a monster hunter hunter

[gloomy heart]

examples include: hollow knight true ending

silksong true ending (though she doesnt plan on self sacrificing there either lol)

i cant think of more on the top of my head but those are like the two most substantial examples possible lol

[foggy fractal]

translates to Nuuuu nuuuu

[polar latch]

I meant like, some characters with different voice actors say similar or the same lines (like my example of phantom and lace!), so there obviously IS a language, it just can't be translated

hornet would THRIVE in the world of Monhun dude

if she were scaled to the size of a human. or a felyne

[gloomy heart]

hornet MH dlc when lol

[polar latch]

Silksong crossover event quest where you fight a 9* tempered Lala Barina to get hornets helmet and cloak, and a needle Insect Glaive

(I'm an IG main I need this)

or they put Rakna Kadaki in the expansion and the quest is to fight all three temnocerons at once

[sinful nimbus]

Themed around hunting quests
Main character uses silk for movement and combat
Main Character restores hope to a threatened kingdom
Attack where the MC flails around silk with their weapon attached at the end

Why did Team Cherry copy Monster Hunter: Rise?

[polar latch]

Rise is better because it has Jyuratodus and silksong doesn't

[sinful nimbus]

Rise is also better because its quests are fun and Silksong's aren't

[peak turtle]

Rise is better cause I can turn higher beings into my clothes

[polar latch]

i liked silksongs quests a lot but I like gathering

i wanna draw a Lala Barina weaver some time I think that'd be fun

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong quests rip off the scoutflies from World and Wilds instead of the actually fun MH stuff 🥀

[polar latch]

I FORGOT ABOUT THAT IT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT TOO

hornet design where she just has a scout fly cage and it's not elaborated on at all

hornet would be an insect glaive main with a cogfly as her kinsect...

[sinful nimbus]

True...

But Thread (Gossamer) Storm is literally an SnS attack

[polar latch]

well. weapon switching does exist in wilds...

i just wanna see hornet pull off a full three extract kinsect tornado

would hornets palico just be a little Sherma...

[terse warren]

A true #sk-lore regular doesn't need to open the profile to know when it's Starpengu: they go by pure ragebaiter instincts

[lapis creek]

what was she supposed to do

she had a mission

[sinful nimbus]

ragebait?

Hornet isn't really portrayed as not caring about The Knight in HK

[terse warren]

It's like your number 1 hobby

[sinful nimbus]

She lies once about not feeling bad for killing The Knight in Hornet 2

Which is only a half truth

[terse warren]

She lies a lot in Silksong

[lapis creek]

pity and remorse arent really the same thing are they

[sinful nimbus]

I suppose

[lapis creek]

oh wait she says sadness

not remorse

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet "Only pity for your cursed kind" Hollow Knight would kill Hornet "Their plight elicits no sympathy from me" Silksong and wouldn't even feel bad about it

[terse warren]

Hornet reflects whichever Kingdom is currently hosting her

[sinful nimbus]

This is due to her malleable nature as Mask Maker notes

It was in front of us all along

[flint wadi]

most of hornet's cold demeanor is addressed to vessels constantly trying to fuck shit up with the black egg though

[terse warren]

Hallownest: Sadness, glory, duty

Pharloom: Racism, lies, propaganda

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[polar latch]

if zote existed in silksong he'd get a slap cutscene

[foggy fractal]

if Hornet was lying then why isn't her pants on fire ? hm ?

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet was completely justified in HK

[flint wadi]

no pants

[edgy nebula]

she has none

[polar latch]

not wearing pants, she broke the system

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not even sure why she says her task was foolish in Silksong

[terse warren]

Silksong Hornet would kill Zote with no remorse

[polar latch]

okay true

[foggy fractal]

if Hornet was lying then why isn't her nose growing long ? hm ?

[flint wadi]

no she wouldnt she would slap the hell out of him

[edgy nebula]

she doesnt have one

[polar latch]

"oh wow looks like this one's lost to the void guess I gotta kill it" "didn't you purge the void already?" "oh nooooo I have to kill him oh well"

i hope we get more Grindle content

[sinful nimbus]

DLC boss Steel Snitch Grindle 🗣️

[terse warren]

Grindle only guy that got on that fucking grind and thrived throughout all the acts

Rat haired Grindle

[flint wadi]

guys*

grindle is multiple people in one shell

literally calls themselves "we"

[terse warren]

Ah yes because the guy is totally mentally stable

[flint wadi]

the guys*

[terse warren]

GMS also calls herself "we"

[flint wadi]

and are*

[flint wadi]

thats a royal we

[terse warren]

Grindle also uses it

[flint wadi]

yeah cause they are multiple

[limpid summit]

Grindle says we cause he’s a gollum type dude

Give us your precious rosaries

[vocal compass]

Or... Grindle is the king of, something maybe

Idk

[flint wadi]

theyre* and dudes**

[flint wadi]

are* and kings**

[vocal compass]

If gms deserves the title then grindle definitely does

[flint wadi]

get with the program(s)

[terse warren]

This is propaganda core

[flint wadi]

do*

this is grindle

[terse warren]

You're gonna be a great ragebaiter in no time neverlake I know it

[polar latch]

snitch bugs could be a hivemind tbh

implies a snitchbug higher being

[terse warren]

Banned for roleplay

[lapis creek]

look at this eva erasure

[polar latch]

inherently funny option

[flint wadi]

yes and grindle are their supreme monarch(s)

[polar latch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1000498639053009009/1420895181422465035/gimple.gif

[edgy barn]

What if whenever you see Grindle there are snithflies hidden around and he's speaking on their behalf.

[flint wadi]

theyre* but yes youre getting it

[sinful nimbus]

No one cares about Eva

[flint wadi]

rude i love eva

[sinful nimbus]

Not even her name is in place with the world

Mask Maker has more aura

[polar latch]

i think it's so sad that hornet doesn't get to bind her mother, she's the only weaver she's met (presumably) who she will never see in any form again

[flint wadi]

the humble seth:

[terse warren]

do not bring seth into this

[flint wadi]

the infamous mark(the m)oth:

[sinful nimbus]

Seth gets a pass for obvious reasons

[polar latch]

I love Seth I think he's a huge candidate for a third game protag

[sinful nimbus]

Mort and Benjin and Eva don't get an excuse

[flint wadi]

all of them get a pass get over it

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think that's intentional

[polar latch]

i wonder if we'll ever get Seth merch or if that would be disrespectful?

[gloomy heart]

Eva is a good name i will die on that hill lol

[terse warren]

tbh she's supposed to be fake god she gets a pass

[flint wadi]

how is it not we are literally in a game with names such as hornet

my god

[terse warren]

taking hornet as an example before vespa is crazy but alr

[gloomy heart]

Probably not but TC could maybe ask his family if they’re okay with it

I’m still so happy they made him so peak in the game

[flint wadi]

i would need 5 minutes to search an apt example

[sinful nimbus]

Gods aren't given human names

[polar latch]

saw someone say Tip and Pill (the couriers) are pillbugs because of Pill's name when they're so obviously Aphids

[flint wadi]

whats a human

[simple oriole]

Guys what is mister mushroom is a higher being

[flint wadi]

dunno what are you tlaking about pal this is pharloom

whats a human anyhow

[terse warren]

https://tenor.com/view/neon-genesis-evangelion-crawling-nayx-gif-17152094

[sinful nimbus]

Get this evangelion slop off my screen this instant

This is a nausicaa household

[sinful nimbus]

I wouldn't name my kid that

I would name my kid eva if Silksong didn't ruin it

[flint wadi]

this is just hate

fake hate

[sinful nimbus]

Its not important at all but I do genuinely dislike these names

[edgy barn]

Hey guys what if First Sinner's name is Eve (because yk, Genesis) and Eva was named after her ||/j||

[sinful nimbus]

Cooking

Weavenest Absolom gives it precedent

[royal elbow]

I think the First Sinner's name is Gertrude.

[polar latch]

i like arrietty

[sinful nimbus]

Arrietty is peak

[polar latch]

arrietty is also very hornet coded. or uh. other way around

[main bison]

SO i have a theory on ZOTE (yes, the guy from hk)

[sinful nimbus]

First Sinner would be Lilith though

She just got that vibe

[main bison]

SO the theory is that ZOTE is from Pharloom (or at least his nail is) as his nail is made from a material called SHELLWOOD, that's why it does zero damage, and we all know We have a literal section in silksong called SHELLWOOD

[vocal compass]

Less of a theory and more of an observation, but yea

[main bison]

I really hope we get more detailing on that in the dlcs

like we already have mr mushroom in flesh

[edgy barn]

Aren't the beams at the ancient mound also shellwood though.

[vocal compass]

Yeah. I was hoping on at least a tiny bit of zote stuff. Like some backround hints or smth

[main bison]

OR maybe the zote we fight is like a little zote/clone of the real og zote, and the dream version we fight is the real zote

[edgy barn]

?

[flint wadi]

line? text?

where is that coming from

[edgy barn]

How would Bretta know what the hypothetical real Zote looks like?

[main bison]

ah true i forgot that the dream version is bretta's imagination

[lean temple]

They're wood but we don't know what type

[edgy barn]

I.. don't remember actually. I just remember it being mentioned in theories about Zote.

[vestal swan]

This is not concrete because the higher being responsible for growing that area is also a seedling seemingly from somewhere else

[main bison]

hmm true

[edgy barn]

nyleth is not a higher being

[flint wadi]

and nyleth isnt even a higher being

[vestal swan]

She fits the description

[native vine]

didnt team cherry say in dev notes or something that wood doesnt exist so its shellwood

[main bison]

what i am more intrested is how the hell did zote did even survive in the outside world

[vestal swan]

He's agile

And durable

Think a really really chewy piece of beef jerky

[prime laurel]

hhi

[edgy barn]

Luck. There probably was always someone near to help him, it could have been the Knight itself, it's not like Zote would remember.

[vestal swan]

It's not that he doesn't remember it's just that he's a liar

[hidden crater]

I love digging through the games data files and finding things I shouldnt

[native vine]

if pilgrims can make it around without blades zote can probably do so as well

[vestal swan]

Files aren't canon

[native vine]

im so glad woke isnt canon to silksong

[vocal compass]

Are we forgetting the zote fight in Colosseum?

Those god damn libs

[hidden crater]

Makes sense that they arent canon wtf is traitor lord doing in silksongs files 😭

[main bison]

Either tc is trolling us or they forgot it-

[past cypress]

Silksong is famously apolitical and would never be woke

[vestal swan]

Or they just used a bunch of really weird names for the code which we knew they do already

[hidden crater]

wonder what would happen if I set it to true

[native vine]

wiki cut content mentions godmaster is in the files still i think so probably from there

[edgy barn]

I don't think he recognizes the Knight at dirthmouth. Else he would know that the knight would know he is lying about killing Vengefly King.

To be fair, he coud also just be that dense.

[main bison]

Traitor lord infects all of harloom-

[crude locust]

Traitor Lord: Parent of Traitor’s child, I think that’s their name, who was dating Ze’mer, ze’mer give the delicate flower, Ze’mer is from pharloom

[main bison]

ALT ENDING UNLOCKED

[crude locust]

Boom

[vocal compass]

Famously apolitical? I feel like most games are

[vestal swan]

He straight up made up a ton of stories and took a helmet back from a dead warrior that he claimed he defeated

[past cypress]

The joke is that silksong is woke as fuck

[vocal compass]

Oh it is?

[past cypress]

Have you played the game bruh

[edgy barn]

what does the traitor lord variable even handle?

[crude locust]

What if zote is actually strong but he has a grey root parasite in him

[main bison]

I swear, zote's luck is as good as king from opm

[edgy barn]

fair enough.

[quartz flicker]

oh are twitter links not allowed here anymore

[vestal swan]

Well twitter doesn't really have anything to do with lore

So they never were?

[edgy barn]

What if you wanted to share a theory published in twitter?

[vocal compass]

I don't se no politics. There isn't like a upper class thing going on necessarily. In hk there is, but in ss?

[quartz flicker]

okay I see the "no low effort/memes allowed" at the top

[hidden crater]

Why did they throw a gay guy in jail then

[lean temple]

Hornet struggles to keep it in check and she's half Pale Wyrm. Pretty much no mortal would be able to survive it.

[past cypress]

They built gay robots instead so it evens out

[quartz flicker]

Actually, who did chuck Green Prince in that cell?

How long has he been there?

[edgy nebula]

he put himself there

[main bison]

years

[edgy barn]

The roach tenders I guess? They are the ones with the key.

[quartz flicker]

someone had to lock the cell from the outside

[edgy nebula]

oh, true

[crude locust]

I mean anyone with a simple key can unlock it though

[native vine]

pebb looking awfully suspicious rn

[main bison]

he could escape by breaking the cell ig, yet he didn't escape maybe becuz he thought verdania was still alive or somethin

[crude locust]

But yeah you do get a simple key from one of them

[vocal compass]

Verdania is like not old at all i feel like. Because of the gp in the cell

[quartz flicker]

I dunno why the roach guys would care about Green Prince.

[vestal swan]

That's just the local prison

[quartz flicker]

Sinner's Road seems to have had a different purpose in the past.

[edgy barn]

He probably traspassed on their land or something.

[edgy barn]

It used to grow crops alongside Greymoor. Then it became a Muckroach Farm.

[quartz flicker]

The tall cages there don't seem built for the muck roaches

[main bison]

it was actually a deal to like save his land as he was the prince of that land, like he was held hostage so gms wouldn't destroy his land (Correct me if i am wrong)

[native vine]

was that not cogwork dancers

[main bison]

cogwork dancers are based on the green prince and his lover

[edgy barn]

No that's the other prince. That one became cogwork dancers in exchange for Verdania being left alone (it wasn't)

[native vine]

cogwork dancers ARE green prince’s lover

[main bison]

like the soul?

[edgy barn]

Yes

[native vine]

yep

[main bison]

ah ic

no wonder he held it so closely

when i got there in act 3

[whole holly]

why aren't there more intelligent bugs in Mosshome like Moss druid?

[edgy nebula]

the closest settlement is bone bottom so no one bothered to make a home there

[whole holly]

considering there was Moss Temple in cut content

[main bison]

moss druid is just a chilll guy/girl

[edgy nebula]

aside from..... mosshome...

[edgy barn]

Mosshome was inhabited by pilgrims. Those either left or fell to the haunting.

[edgy nebula]

but that was also probably made by pilgrims

oh they mentioned mosshome anyway

[whole holly]

yeah true but that is for pilgrims, i meant natives like moss druid?

[edgy barn]

Moss Druid's tribe seems to be long gone

[whole holly]

i guess that is implied

[edgy nebula]

it's implied moss druid wasnt always located in mosshome, i think, judging by the bell on her staff and her needolin dialogue speaking of karak and shellwood/far fields

[main bison]

Ig if you're a pilgrim, your journey usually starts from bone bottom, so why would you go up on the corners in the mosshome when you can live in the settlement down in bone bottom

[main bison]

maybe she was like kicked out like the doc who takes out the parasite from hornet?

[whole holly]

i meant something like Advanced moss druid civillisation

[main bison]

eh they died out ig

[vivid sundial]

Were did grand mother silk get her silk if she couldn't produce any

[whole holly]

i can also guess that but i was interested in more answers

[main bison]

Plot twist: They all went to gardening in Hallownest

[whole holly]

what does her needolin dialogue even mean though "Beat beat beat!
In coral, in shell...
And why not here?!
Beating, beating...
The world's rhythms...
In branches, in fields!"

[edgy barn]

That seems to be a reference to the Old Hearts

[edgy nebula]

she seems knowing of "the world's rhythms" aka rulers

"and why not here!?" could be her curious about why mosshome has no "beat"

[edgy barn]

in coral refers to Khann, in branches to Nyleth, in fields to Karmelita

[whole holly]

branches would be verdania?

[whole holly]

we see some type of branches but those aren't like tree branches

[edgy barn]

"Mmm! Mmm! This is them, the precious, promised fruits!
Drop them in, there they go, and now at last we can begin!
Ahhh! Ahhh-ohhhh! The smell is right! Like the others! But very young! Oh, voice of the woods! Oh, dance of the queen! Oh... oh! Beat harder, let us hear it! Oh! Ohhhhhhhh!
Mmm. Mmm! The pain... my mind aches. Why? The berries, the nasty fruits. Oh the visions!
You, wish promiser. Wish granter. You brought me what I needed and stayed by my side. Companion through my ordeal. I could ask for nothing more.
And for the parting, a gift. An amulet of we druids. Or me druid? No others, I think.
May it ease your sorrows, wish granter. May it cry for you when no tears are left!"

[whole holly]

yeah, why not here is question i have as well, Old Hearts had defended their homes and civilization, there is no remnant of native bugs in Moss Grotto/Home, we see evidence of heavy weaver involvement as well

[edgy nebula]

it's likely moss grotto was atleast once inhabited either partially or in full by coral/water

[whole holly]

coral is Crust King Khann, Shell is Shellwood, Feilds is Far Feilds, Branches can be Verdania, attributing both coral and shell for one kingdoms seems weird

[edgy nebula]

i imagine the native karak bugs died out, leaving it to be taken over by bright grasses

[whole holly]

how so?

[barren beacon]

So hornet, due to being half weaver, has the natural isntinct/need to be in charge right? or did I get something wrong

[whole holly]

is there in game evidence for that

[edgy nebula]

khann once ruled "half of pharloom"

trobbio's mom is the radiance, didnt you know that?

she comes to his performances every week

hes tormented trobbio cause the knight killed his meemaw

[whole holly]

but nothing implies which portions, but may be possible, and reason why Moss Home doesn't have their own "Heart" but it seems far fetched

[native vine]

could they be trying to synthesise a heart?

[edgy nebula]

blasted steps was definitely inhabited by coral, aswell as the wormways, and since the middle of the map was inhabited by nyleth and the right was the stilkin/karmelita/craws/green princes, we can infer it stretched all the way down

the most i can see khann's influences stretching as to the right side of the map is to where the citadel was

[edgy barn]

The most bottom section of the slab has coral too.

[edgy nebula]

yeah the slab aswell

[whole holly]

Moss heart? we don't know, maybe vegetation came from something similar to Nyleth?

[hidden crater]

Another memento 🤑

[whole holly]

but that also seems far fetched, beating may be from her own heart

[whole holly]

Moss Memento, sounds sick

maybe Unn's Younger Cousin once lived there and is now hiding somewhere

[whole holly]

let's name her Enn

[native vine]

crack theory but maybe the moss druids had a civilisation (ruined chapel) and an old heart which was ruined by the citadel/other old hearts(?) leading to the last moss druid attempting to bring back their old heart from its remnants (mossberries)

[whole holly]

ruined chapel is of Shamans though

cut content shows Temple of Moss Druid, she had her own temple

[native vine]

i thought only the inner bit was shamans? or did they own the whole structure? chapel maiden alludes to there having been another religion there once, and snail shamans are known to seek out power

[vestal swan]

I'm pretty sure that Temple was for the void

[native vine]

it may have originally been called the moss temple (but obviously thats very big speculation)

[native vine]

ruined chapel?

[vestal swan]

Ya, the one the shaman is staying at?

[whole holly]

they are also power hungry so it may be possible

[native vine]

there’s no evidence of void there though is there?

[silver spire]

the ruined chapel was just for the snail shaman no?

[native vine]

team cherry creating NPC #427 whose lore will never be expanded upon ever

[edgy barn]

ngl I am kind of afraid for when mossbag starts covering silksong. Like what if he says Widow is the staked to service weaver or something and we end up with a bunch of people that believe that.

[vestal swan]

We know they are descendants of a void worshiping ancient civ member, and their body is deep within that temple. There's also a bunch of really cryptic spells written all over the walls that all pretty much require sacrifices. Seems pretty void dedicated to me but of course I could be wrong and horribly misreading like I usually do

[silver spire]

i mean weaver in eighth part already disproves that

cuz widow is a first gen weaver

and this is also why im glad that i got to play silksong BEFORE anyone made lore vids, cuz then i can actually understand the story

[vestal swan]

It doesn't matter if that's what's true if a YouTuber says otherwise a bunch of idiots will believe it

[silver spire]

idiots who never played silksong before

[vestal swan]

You have to remember there's a bunch of people who played the entire game didn't understand any of the story and are waiting on somebody else to make an opinion for them

[edgy barn]

Didn't prevent several people from making the "connection".

[vestal swan]

And the ones who never played yes

[atomic dirge]

@earnest marsh yo quick question did you end up reading what i pinged you for earlier this week

[whole holly]

i do want something about Moss Druid species, even additional quest or relevant dialogue

[silk vector]

When you play your needolin for the Druid, they sing this:
“Beat beat beat!
In coral, in shell...
And why not here?!
Beating, beating...
The world's rhythms...
In branches, in fields!”

Seems like they’re trying to hear the heart of Pharloom? Seems like typical Druid stuff

[native vine]

yeah im rereading chapel maid’s dialogue and its a bit vague on void stuff but she does say “Gone! The lot o’them, fled and hidden.” so im leaning back to snail shamans leading a religion and having to flee bc citadel
i do think though that there was a moss druid civ with an old heart that became mossberries but thats my bs

[lean temple]

Hearts* of pharloom (the 4 hearts)

[whole holly]

yeah, we discussed that

[silk vector]

Ah, I didn’t see that

[vestal swan]

I can believe that too tbh

[whole holly]

me three

[vestal swan]

But also for a moss thing to exist I think the temple would have to be somewhere completely different, because the Temple dedicated to Unn whatever wouldn't be covered in bones I think

[timber pond]

\It Could be Void Or Soul. But alot of evidence leans twoards soul.

[vestal swan]

Soul doesn't really make sense what

That's a substance that every living thing has why would they worship it

That's just like saying here's the Life Church we worship life

[whole holly]

yea, we joked about her having cousin with similar powers named enn

[native vine]

as a side note do people believe the snail shamans are a part of void civilisation? i was under the impression that it was power they worshipped leading to them getting entangled with void and soul/they had a talent for wielding soul that tied into their worship of power as a whole?

[whole holly]

Ancient Civilization worshiped Void, Shamans use Soul, but nobody worships soul

[edgy barn]

...what would be wrong with that?

[whole holly]

there is no in-game evidence

[edgy barn]

I mean with the concept of having a life church than worships life, not whether or not it exist in the game.

[timber pond]

The needolin Dialogue and dioluge from the first game implies that they have been collecting souls from living creatures for centuries. The reason the snail shaman in the First game likely stays in his temple is because im pretty sure some dioluge in hollow knight mentions somewhere that hes Collecting soul passively from all of the carcases and masks that make up his mound.

Acient civilization MADE the statues that absorb and contain soul, so im not saying you are wrong, im saying that worshiping void is NOT the only thing they did. And a reason they are outcasts is because of thier soul harvesting practices

[vestal swan]

The characters in this universe don't worship abstract things they actually have deities that have real feats worth worshiping

[lapis creek]

except for the void

[vestal swan]

As we can see from the spell they use they need a lot of soul to summon and manipulate the void

[whole holly]

i thought so too, but they are kind of their own thing, i also believed Steel Hearts were remnants of AC, but i don't know what to believe anymore

[edgy barn]

Good point.

[lapis creek]

oh and lifeblood

potentially

it's not really that great of a point

[edgy barn]

Joni was a dealer not a priest.

[lean temple]

Well, the Masters might be (mayyybe) but Steelhearts are very likely just creations of the Masters.

[leaden veldt]

Ok i have a question is it proven that ss happens after hk or just a very likely speculation?

[lapis creek]

ok ill concede on lifeblood we dont really know what joni was doing

[vestal swan]

I wouldn't call either of those abstract, especially not in the way you would with soul? Void is a buncha creatures they can get to do stuff with spells, that's not abstract. And the pros and cons of lifeblood might take a little while to figure out but that's something they can interact with and figure out to.
Just worshiping the substance that literally everything has inside of it seems really counterproductive when worshiping actual things gets you actual results

[lapis creek]

did you play the game?

[native vine]

i think the void civ is its own thing which is super interesting cause it means we still have very little on them
also whats AC?

[cedar owl]

yeah, you'd think instead of worshipping soul they would worship the higher beings that can produce soul like Pale King and Grand Mother Silk

[edgy barn]

AC is void civ

[vestal swan]

Ac is the ancient civilization, the ones that worshiped void

[whole holly]

guys if we compare Citadel religion with Catholic Church would Moss Druid be animist?

[native vine]

ah ty

[lapis creek]

this is kind of shifting the goalpost from deities with feats

[vestal swan]

Void did not being a deity is about the only real difference

[lapis creek]

void is a substance

[vestal swan]

But soul is just an energy and they're not about to get anything from worshiping it in this hypothetical situation

[lapis creek]

soul is a substance

[vestal swan]

void is alive

[native vine]

she gives out blessings tho

[timber pond]

i don't think they even manipulate it, The snare Seems to just act as a portal to the void to me, and the void always Tries its hardest to consume Soul.

its not that they worship it specifically i think. Through the Void, they have come to understand the functions of the world. Soul and void are like opposites, maybe certain Ancestors did lean into the void, and worship it for its properties and what they discovered (leading to things The Steel Vassals know). They are Dealers in power, merchants of it. They tinker and live under both void and pale beings to make their lives better, at the cost of something else.

[vestal swan]

Deja vu

[whole holly]

Soul is Living Force itself, Void is still "alive" with it's uniqiue nature that can be deemed godly

[timber pond]

Void is debatably alive

[whole holly]

Void Tendrils react to our presence in both games

[vestal swan]

It's a non-standard life form just like lifeblood.
They are alive they have a will they do things they consume, but they do not have soul

[timber pond]

Soul is living and is consumed by void. They Are diometric oposites of life that have the ability to suport diffrent types of life

[whole holly]

yeah it is reactive substance lacking will

[vestal swan]

Soul is not living soul is the energy that makes things alive

[cedar owl]

I think I agree with this
there clearly is a distinction between Void as a substance and Void Given Form

[timber pond]

You could say the same thing about shades and how the void animates them.

[lapis creek]

what do they get out of worshipping void

[digital yew]

What are the knight forms(void)?

[edgy barn]

So does Salubra

[whole holly]

Acid tendrils don't exist thought, Void tendrils does, Acid entity doesn't exist Void Entity does

[vestal swan]

Some kind of understanding so that they can use it to fucking disappear their enemies apparently

[timber pond]

The AC worshiped Shades in particular i think. This is an "idea" the void presents, much like Soul and PAle beings

[lapis creek]

a lot of people in both games come to believe that soul can be used to extend their lifespans

[vestal swan]

They worshiped the void before the shades existed

[native vine]

salubra isnt a heretic

[whole holly]

none worship it though

[lapis creek]

which hornet doesnt seem to dispute given the phrasing of the surgeon entry

im not saying anybody worships it

[timber pond]

Shades Come from Ideas of the Acient civilization Vessels are not the first shades

[vestal swan]

Soul doesn't have a mind or will how are any of you honestly trying to make this comparison

[whole holly]

but Void is alive enough to be controlled when given a will, Soul and Acid don't do that

[timber pond]

Soul Animates things with a mind or will and so does void

[lapis creek]

i'm saying the principle that nobody would ever worship soul in this universe is built on completely made up rules that were poorly laid out and do not exist

[timber pond]

and both can be used in rituals of power

[cedar owl]

I'm not trying to make a stance on this confusing debate going on right on, I'd just like to point out that it seems like the Ancient Civ did get something out of the Void.

Erase our fear,
Eliminate our desire,
To suffer no more,
Void, cleanse us.
Now, I'm not sure if this is them just poetically wishing for death or if they actually managed to use void to "cleanse" themselves

[lapis creek]

if, in the future, there turns out to be a civilization that worships soul, it would not conflict with anything established

[vestal swan]

I think it's absurd to worship a substance with no will of its own to act out anything, when they are plenty of things out there that can

[timber pond]

Shades are an alternate path to traditionaly living soul, the things themselves are not whats worshiped its the ideas they represent

PAle king probably got the idea of the vessels from "Shades' arcane eggs mention

[lapis creek]

does that mean nobody would do it?

[vestal swan]

Or they just used it to void their enemies lives

[cedar owl]

idk, when the substance is magic I could see a religion being made out of it
at very least you could say someone might see soul or void as holy

[craggy smelt]

Lemm did say the ancients were 'inspired or mad'

[timber pond]

Shades are an alternate form of life, that is what is worshiped

[lapis creek]

you can't possibly be saying 'this form of worship could never exist because i consider it absurd'

[craggy smelt]

It seems like the ancients aspired to become shades - to be embraced by the Void and have it 'cleanse' them of suffering

[vestal swan]

It's not giving you powers it is the power that is being used? It's everywhere it's not asking for anything, it's how (most) life works

There is no exchange happening

[whole holly]

Soul is will? soul just animates bugs, Will is Will, also stop retracting on your statement it applies , Void has it's nature to actively seek out living things and consume them , which is it's own self-preservation, Void manipulated bug in light house, that requires intelligence

[timber pond]

The AC Tablets in silksong Lean more into that, They worshiped the idea that they could escape the sufferings of "Soul" and the beings associated with "Void" to become shades

[cedar owl]

yeah I think they're just dipping themselves in the void

In silence your voice,
In darkness your form,
We higher who see you seeking,
Our shells yearn for your embrace.

[vestal swan]

Why do y'all keep comparing it to void like it has a will of its own or something, soul is basically just ambient energy

[lapis creek]

that is not what they said in the message you are quoting

[timber pond]

They are both ambient energy that oppose eachother until they Support Life within. The tentacles that thrash in the void are also likely a form of "shade"

[vestal swan]

Void is not energy nor is it ambient and everywhere and without a will

Do y'all not understand the distinction that is being made between worshiping something that is basically air and an entity

[timber pond]

YOu can say soul is porven to have some kind of Will with The exstince of Silkflies and Lumaflies

[lapis creek]

the comparisons going on between soul and void are questionable but the idea that soul could never be worshipped is really strange

[whole holly]

Void and Soul are different in nature, anyone can see Void's powers but not Soul, someone has to manipulate Soul, someone godly, and bugs start worshiping that god instead, if bugs aren't advanced enough they can't use soul, but when they become advanced, they approach it scientifically (Soul Sanctum , Whiteward)

[lapis creek]

why can't you worship air though

[cedar owl]

well the tentacles we see lashing out are specifically called "void given form" in the weaver tablet. so you could argue that there's a different between void as a substance and the void lifeforms

[whole holly]

i would need evidence for that

[vestal swan]

I'm saying it's not logical to worship the air in this world where there's literally gods everywhere and other creatures to worship that you can actually get results from, yes the idea is absurd and unrealistic

[timber pond]

Its 2 diffrent priomridal soups that make 2 different forms of life. What's being "worshiped" is the ideas they represent, not the thing itself.

[vestal swan]

No? First off nobody's actually worshiping soul, it's a horrible hypothetical answer to the temple the shamans were in.
And the void itself is being worshiped

[whole holly]

we exclusively see memories linked with Silk, so that can be attributed to it's additional traits, not raw soul's capabilities

[whole holly]

what do you guys think about this point?

[compact escarp]

So in the normal ending the hornet become the next gms or she just became the vessel for the latter?

[vestal swan]

Soul can contain memories if it came directly from the body of somebody

[timber pond]

You arent understanding what im saying. Im not saying they are worshiping these things. They worship what they can become.

[vestal swan]

She basically ascends tempted by the power and takes over

[whole holly]

what memories do we see from soul? crests?

[craggy smelt]

Soul can confer ability (this is also what Soul spells are) but in the case of the Soul Warriors in the Sanctum, they received abilities explicitly without any memories tied to them like training etc.

[timber pond]

"The Lord of shades' is likley for example, something achieved by mastering "shades' which we established are things that can be created through void givin Focus.

[lapis creek]

arguably her binding gms destroys her identity, which is something she mentions is a risk when she binds eva

[vestal swan]

The sanctum, the people who kept having transfusions, there was a note or something somewhere about one of them having foreign memories in their head along with taking techniques and knowledge just by absorbing soul of shamans, both the sanctum and TK do this

[whole holly]

thanks, there is no use for worshiping force you can't utilize to enough extent

[vestal swan]

It sounds dumb but soul that has been in a person can contain tons of information

[solemn hinge]

God, Groal having VS is so hype

That’s such a cool story element

[vestal swan]

He doesn't?

[whole holly]

can you provide citations from foreign memories in their head part?

[craggy smelt]

it's the opposite actually, he says he doesn't have memories of training

This soul...Is it my own?
...This power...What did it cost?
These skills...No training I recall...

[solemn hinge]

What

[vestal swan]

I think it's soul warrior dream nail dialogue

Ah

[sinful nimbus]

Either way it proves soul can contain essence

[vestal swan]

And vice versa via resurrection goo!

[craggy smelt]

maybe when its in silk form, Pavo mentions memories that aren't his own when he was Haunted

knock-off VS, doesn't even have the eyes...

[vestal swan]

A giant soul blob ≠ vengeful spirit

[craggy smelt]

soUL

[vestal swan]

Holy hell autocorrect almost ruined that sentence

[solemn hinge]

He kills a Snail Shaman and gets fireball spell

[vestal swan]

No it doesn't?

It doesn't have a face

[timber pond]

its in the same shape though, so its like, the same Idea

[vestal swan]

It's just an oblong projectile

[sinful nimbus]

Its not literally vengeful spirit its just that Team Cherry is incapable of coming up with literally anything new

[craggy smelt]

it's probably not hard to put together a big Soul fireball, pretty basic stuff

[solemn hinge]

0/10 rage bait, homie

[vestal swan]

He doesn't eat the shaman actually he drained it but did not take that soul into his self otherwise we wouldn't collect it from another room

[timber pond]

Vengeful spirit is an oblong projectile. lol

[craggy smelt]

like year one wizard school

[sinful nimbus]

Anything I disagree with is ragebait

[solemn hinge]

Anything obviously ragebait is ragebait

[timber pond]

ITs like a basic soul spell ,we dont even need to call it vengefuls pirit

[sinful nimbus]

Do you have anything to add to the discussion

[solemn hinge]

I literally started the conversation

Whatever

[vestal swan]

Yes that is the point because we got vengeful spirit from a different shaman so this is not vengeful spirit

[timber pond]

Idk man, haveing the world be consistent with its systems is what makes it cool?

[vestal swan]

The hell does that even mean

[timber pond]

like if everything was unrelated i rather they just make a new game

new Ip i mean

[solemn hinge]

Is it ever implied that there are no Snail Shamans with duplicate abilities

[fossil tendon]

I'm back. hi

[solemn hinge]

And why would Groal’s VS look the exact same as TK’s?

[fossil tendon]

hi

[vestal swan]

Each one we find in the first game is working on its own spell

[craggy smelt]

crossroads shaman said he invented VS, but again like... ball of Soul. pretty basic. His was a little fancier, what with the face

[vestal swan]

Howdy

[silver spire]

the only thing i see starpengu do in this channel is disagree with everyone

[sinful nimbus]

The base system is soul and this isn't doing anything new

[fossil tendon]

Pings?

[silver spire]

just ignore them atp, its not worth it

[sinful nimbus]

Even the aspect of a spell being stolen from a snail shaman is ripped off from the first game

[timber pond]

The ability to recognize that its similar to vengeful spirit is what makes it good and impactful is what i mean.

[solemn hinge]

What about the one you get Shade Soul from and the one you get VS from?

[timber pond]

It dosent need to is my point.

[fossil tendon]

Did Unn have any kids/descendants or whatever

[sinful nimbus]

The only thing I see this channel do is put out disagreeable takes so maybe its not me who's the problem

[solemn hinge]

Since TK gains Shade Soul with advanced knowledge from the shaman

[vestal swan]

Different techniques of slamming into the floor

[cedar owl]

yeah it's obviously a parallel idk why mfs being so pedantic about this lmao

[solemn hinge]

You mean fireball?

[sinful nimbus]

If I wanted to see vengeful spirit and a spell stolen from a snail shaman I'd play the first game

[timber pond]

Man just wants a team cherry ip that isnt hollow knight

[lapis creek]

could it be that they were baiting you all this time

[solemn hinge]

Well it sure doesn’t take the spell itself since shamans are incapable of using Void spells

[sinful nimbus]

After Silksong? Yeah

They clearly aren't willing to put out any new ideas though

[timber pond]

Ok but its being used in a diffrent contxt For forshadowing. This isnt bad. you just think it is.

[silver spire]

yk when there's multiple people in agreement on their takes, maybe it's you who is the problem

[solemn hinge]

Whatever, it’s basically VS, with maybe some arbitrary differences

[lapis creek]

is 2 multiple

[silver spire]

that's all im gonna say for now, ill go back to watching the discourse

[timber pond]

i dont. you do.

[chilly gyro]

Dose anyone know what the “leg” on GMS is suppose to be? I’m pretty sure it’s some kind of spool holder or something but it looks more like conjoined sewing needles to me

[solemn hinge]

Needle, I guess? Idk lmao

[cedar owl]

I also pogged a little when I saw groal do the knight spell

[timber pond]

Is what i meant

[sinful nimbus]

Its foreshadowing... another unoriginal part of the game and dare I say a bad one

[craggy smelt]

some kind've spindle thing

Rad has one too sort've

[chilly gyro]

He was basically a proto soul master

[timber pond]

Yeah ok man we get it. We like the story you dont. this is getting tiresome.

[chilly gyro]

Rads legs were more like a nail or blade

[sinful nimbus]

Thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion

[lapis creek]

yeah star shut the fuck up nobody likes you

[solemn hinge]

Okay let’s calm down

[craggy smelt]

they came to some kind of weird point, that's for sure

[solemn hinge]

No need to personally attack the mf 😭

[vestal swan]

How is a very basic looking spell supposed to be forshadowing

[whole holly]

radiance did resemble Dream Nail, but GMS resembles Weird Spool

[sinful nimbus]

"How is your opinion on the game's lore related to the lore" idk figure it out yourself

[solemn hinge]

It’s a callback, and that’s in IMO

[vestal swan]

💯

[chilly gyro]

Still confused as to why that’s the second higher being now that has a weird poky thing for legs

[solemn hinge]

It’s shaped very similarly and is meant to make you go “holy shit he can do a thing very similar to the Knight that’s cool”

[lapis creek]

nah it kind of does foreshadow the dead shaman

[solemn hinge]

I mean, no need for legs if you can float

[lyric widget]

we called that attack Vengeful Spirit on the wiki due to its similarity to the HK spell, I think it's pretty cool

[vestal swan]

At no point during that fight did I think wow there's a dead shaman in the back room

[craggy smelt]

it proves Radiance is a pale being, no question
I bet PK and WL have them too under their robes

[timber pond]

I have been contributing to these elements of the discussion ever since the conception of this server go look at my message history. You just go in circles about how terrible it is and its kind of hard to talk around. Just because ideas crop up again doesn't mean they are bad. The more things change the more everything stays the same and all that. It feels like no matter how much i were to discuss, nither of our opinions would ever budge an inch so what the fuck is the point.

[vestal swan]

Yak is on drugs idk

[lapis creek]

yeah this is often the case with foreshadowing you dont really know what's being foreshadowed until later

[chilly gyro]

WL is a tree. She’s confirmed to have roots, and the single walking animation we have for PK shows him doing some kind of walking motion under his robes

[vestal swan]

White lady is a root she is not a tree

She's very specifically called root, she has no leaves and she has no fruit

[chilly gyro]

She’s literally called the Pale Root. Plant like in nature. She’s even shown to grow root like tendrils in Queens Gardens

[vestal swan]

No but they usually have one or the other

[craggy smelt]

or leaves

[timber pond]

I agree, even though its considered a hot take.

[vestal swan]

No seeds no leaves no flowers no fruit, you're not a tree

[lyric widget]

can I recommend the wiki server lol

[craggy smelt]

it's winter time in holloworld, all WL leaves have fallen

[vestal swan]

They won't grow at all

It's not really a distinction that we need to figure out she's a root the game says it repeatedly

It would be a different God because she's a root

[craggy smelt]

what is a branch, but a root that's like... up

[solemn hinge]

We don’t know White Lady’s pre-Queen’s Gardens look aside from non canon stuff right

[timber pond]

They seem to have it covered.

[sinful nimbus]

I wouldn't call statements like "Yeah ok man we get the point and I'm tired of this discussion" valuable contributions to the discussion

For the record I like the game and I like the world but I also like critiquing it and if you aren't interested in the discussion then... don't engage with it, Discord has a block button for a reason

[solemn hinge]

You can dislike Silksong but “Groal’s VS is a copy of the one in the original game because TC is lazy” is not really topical

[vestal swan]

In the red cut scene she's younger then hollow Knight

[solemn hinge]

Fascinating, I must not have noticed

[edgy barn]

Red Memory

[vestal swan]

She's also in the palace and not in her garden where she ends up sitting for like ages

[whole holly]

why is White lady's essence Pink ish in godhome and when dream nailing her? when pale king's essence is grey pale toned

[lyric widget]

no I mean to talk about lore

[solemn hinge]

Wow yeah, she is a lot less thick

[whole holly]

glad we have this

[timber pond]

Discussion is for Changing and reforging ideas in the context of the lore in this specific channel. When you keep just shitting on the lore, i don't see a point.

[craggy smelt]

standard essence is pink, but is it pink in godhome? I remember it also being white

[timber pond]

Fair i guess. But i already contribute to mossbags server and so does yak

[lapis creek]

things can be pointless

[sinful nimbus]

Am I not allowed to share and discuss my opinion

[edgy barn]

in game

[whole holly]

it is very faint pink not typical pink

[lapis creek]

this entire server is pointless if you really want to get down to it

[vestal swan]

White lady is not a dream based HB and doesn't really interact with it so she doesn't get a special essence color that's basically the why

[solemn hinge]

You can, but like we can also react to it in a way we want to

[vestal swan]

But the higher being specific rooms are different I think

Going back to the pale n pink

[timber pond]

You are but im equally allowed to say that its kind of a bummer when you scream about how much the punch bowl sucks at the party where everyone's enjoying it

[sinful nimbus]

Well you can decide to not make meaningful contributions to the discussion but that doesn't mean you should

[craggy smelt]

the god rooms in P5 have things like green and white for Unn and PK

[solemn hinge]

Well yeah, and I can criticize you for that

[whole holly]

no her roots have pink outline as well

[sinful nimbus]

Great zinger but I'd prefer you actually engage with what I'm saying

[cedar owl]

it's just a space for a group of people with a very specific niche of 'tism to argue in circles

[vestal swan]

????

[solemn hinge]

I’m being serious tho?

[whole holly]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/White_Lady#/media/File:Pantheon_of_Hallownest_White_Lady.png

[vestal swan]

If you want to keep boiling it down life is meaningless but we are here so it's kind of a pointless distinction to make

[sinful nimbus]

Life has a meaning and its to hate on Silksong as much as possible

[craggy smelt]

it doesn't matter
none of this matters

[timber pond]

I am. Bassicaly disagree with all of your assertions and think the oposite of what you think.

[vestal swan]

I'm sorry nothing about that is pink

[sinful nimbus]

I was not talking to you there

[whole holly]

i asked question

[craggy smelt]

they mean this

[whole holly]

go to link please, it displays regular white lady dudeeeee, without opening link

[vestal swan]

Regular white lady does not have that God home aura, I did open the link it did not show me God home

[sinful nimbus]

Then what am I being criticized for

[vestal swan]

And even though that doesn't look pure White I think it's just the contrast of the area

[solemn hinge]

Not adding anything to the topic?

[whole holly]

it is link to godhome png there is nothing else it could have shown you

[craggy smelt]

it's not like how pink or anything, but there's kind've a hazy pink outline on the roots

[sinful nimbus]

I added my opinion which I found amusing

[solemn hinge]

Again, saying “Groal’s VS is a copy of the one in the original game because TC is lazy” is not lore related

[silver spire]

hes ragebaiting, just ignore them lol

[solemn hinge]

I find it kinda unlikely he is

[vestal swan]

You know what's crazy is all of you just yapping about nothing while there's an actual conversation going on

[sinful nimbus]

I'm a girl

[solemn hinge]

I will still ignore them anyways

[vestal swan]

Can y'all actually talk about the game or be quiet

[silver spire]

^^^

[solemn hinge]

My apologies

[sinful nimbus]

I tried

[vestal swan]

Star you just have to stop having absolutely dog shit takes that you think everybody needs to know

[sinful nimbus]

Lets talk about how Salubra is a sylphean slug

[gloomy heart]

damn what happened in here lol

[whole holly]

my point is why is it pink? it is not standard pink either, maybe it is just way to differentiate her and pale king's essence?

[muted lantern]

Is grand gourmand still alive

In act 3

[sinful nimbus]

Or more accurately she can CONJURE sylphean slugs like Salubra's Blessing

[craggy smelt]

the roots are bright white, the glow seems pink to me
though its probably the environment - ambient fading or whatever
seems like faint pink essence in the background, as opposed to PK's white

[sinful nimbus]

Talk about the game

[gloomy heart]

i dont remember but i think so

[muted lantern]

Wait is uni the same person as starpengu

[vestal swan]

Sylphs are probably fae like
salubra does not fit that description

[sinful nimbus]

I don't know who this star person is man stop calling me that

[craggy smelt]

could just be HB stuff, there's different types of Essence for the others too

[ancient sinew]

You’re not fooling anybody.

[muted lantern]

Ur right my bad, starpengu isn't real she can't hurt us

[vestal swan]

What in the actual fuck

[whole holly]

yeah but i thought it would be same pale essence for all of them

[craggy smelt]

well you were wrong

[vestal swan]

It's not pale for all of them and that still doesn't really look pink

[whole holly]

lol

[vestal swan]

It looks like contrast with the background

[silver spire]

his homes infested with escheria coli, of course he has to

[muted lantern]

Who is the best baller in silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Sylphs are air spirits which evokes imagery of soul (This is further corroborated by Sylphsong giving infinite soul) and Salubra's Blessing is an incorporeal seeming air entity that gives infinite soul

[whole holly]

it doesn't that is not how contrast works

[silver spire]

the real question is, is the feces delivered via colonoscopy or nasojejunal tube or just a pill

[ancient sinew]

Unique essence colors isn’t exclusively a HB thing thougu

[vestal swan]

Why are we discussing godhome anyway

[sinful nimbus]

Therefore Salubra's Blessing is a Sylphean Slug which means slugs can conjure those for some reason

[muted lantern]

His ass is not in silksong

[silver spire]

oh fair, i dont think he cares about taste

[ancient sinew]

Bretta and Godhome have pink and gold essence respectively and neither are dreams which house HBs

It’s a pretty meaningless observation

[whole holly]

lol, Salubra is higher being, or she has albino sister who is pale being and produces pale oil

[timber pond]

When you try to tell pepole what to do, people will often do the opposite lol and talk about something absurd instead lol

[vestal swan]

Yeah I know what a sylph is, and they usually look like fairies, of course that says nothing for this universe but I don't think salubras creepy projection qualifies

[sinful nimbus]

Void entity is not in control of Godhome and GPZ isn't a higher being

[muted lantern]

This chat is a hellscape sometimes

[ancient sinew]

GPZ isn’t a HB and the Godhome Essence is completely unrelated to VGFocus and also precedes it

[craggy smelt]

but WL is a higher being, so if she did have a different color of Essence that wouldn't be unusual

[muted lantern]

Gpz neg diffs pale king

[whole holly]

lol, she is provides first game equivalent to Sylphsong

[muted lantern]

Strongest HB by far

[vestal swan]

void entity as in TK is a higher being, gpz is not, unless you were talking about something completely different

[sinful nimbus]

Its not just a sylph its a sylphean slug in a bug universe

The blessing is quite literally a sylphean slug

[compact escarp]

Is trobbio corrupted by void in act 3 or he's just changed his outfit?

[lone folio]

Come on plasmified Zango would easily beat gpz

[muted lantern]

He's just emo

[sinful nimbus]

He changed his outfit

[vestal swan]

Edge Lord

[craggy smelt]

only in the sense that the Void has him totally bummed out

[ancient sinew]

I’m not sure why her being a HB is relevant here

[compact escarp]

Heh

[whole holly]

she is closest thing to description but she is not pale, Albino sister theories are becoming more and more evident

[vestal swan]

Because the context is the rooms in godhome being different colored for gods

[ancient sinew]

It’s established that essence colour and HB status are completely unrelated that’s more likely to be evidence of a strong mind or something along those lines

[fossil tendon]

update. any errors

[ancient sinew]

Mentioning that she’s a HB is at best redundant at worst misleading

[lapis creek]

well yeah thats what im saying it doesnt make sense to criticize specific things as pointless while ignoring others

[ancient sinew]

People will assume that all HBs have unique essence or that unique essence indicates a HB is present and that’s just not true

[lapis creek]

if anything it's just a coarse way of saying things don't serve the purpose you want them to

[ancient sinew]

Let’s avoid spreading misconceptions

[timber pond]

Weird other Thing might be "The Masters" and would make sense for them to be adjacent.

[sinful nimbus]

The blessing is sorta pale

[fossil tendon]

"The Masters"?

[vestal swan]

No it changes color for the ones that are essence related and of a very different color, brettas is the standard color scheme you find in the resting grounds I believe so it's not out of the ordinary

[fossil tendon]

I do!

[edgy stone]

The masters should be some time travel thing of oro and mato

[timber pond]

The masters of the steel city, who are aperently equivocal to Void heart and "the lord of shades" in some way

[whole holly]

sort of yeah, that's because she appears as spirit, and paler coloration is supposed to signify that

[sinful nimbus]

It is not

[timber pond]

Stell Soul NPCS and quests from both games

[vestal swan]

Jinn dialogue to TK saying they are complete like the master or something

[whole holly]

what is weird other thing? and maybe put down moth tribe as radiance's children/ creations, if you want to

[vestal swan]

Being complete could just mean that they are a master of themselves, like TK mastered the void. It doesn't really imply void I think but I don't remember the second game dialogue

[foggy fractal]

This It... A rare It. Has not seen many, so vulnerable, but triumphant. Makes Jinn feel a thing... surprise?
Jinn misjudged... The It is not inferior. Perhaps... different? Different to Jinn. More complete? Different... like masters?

this dialogue appears after void heart is obtained
though what exactly the similiarity between tk and the masters is unknown

[ancient sinew]

I don’t understand what you are trying to say but Bretta and Godhome definitely have unique Essence

[craggy smelt]

they grabbed her from beneath the city proper, going by the dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

Jinn has so much less aura than Zi

[vestal swan]

Well they said under the city of steel, so think of the city of steel like a section on the map and that Weaver was in the town beneath it

[limpid summit]

Dawg just copy and paste 💔

[timber pond]

cant too long

[craggy smelt]

no, have discourse there

[lone folio]

Town of bronze

[lapis creek]

rule 4 in shambles

[vestal swan]

Just copy paste the dialog come on, we are not about to jump servers to have a conversation

[edgy stone]

We need time travel in hk

[limpid summit]

Why would I join mossbag’s server for discourse instead of learning something right here

[craggy smelt]

shanty town of tinfoil

[sinful nimbus]

Please god please don't send me to mosscord 🙏 😭 I don't want to go to mosscord please man please

[craggy smelt]

oh you're already there

[ancient sinew]

shut up

[edgy stone]

I really thought silksongs gimmick was gonna be time travel due to karmelitas statue

[timber pond]

ok here goesss.....

[sinful nimbus]

Anything else

[ancient sinew]

You’re really getting on my nerves

[lone folio]

Community of plastic

[solemn hinge]

You can also forward messages :)

[sinful nimbus]

Its fine if you like mossbag but i'm not going to his mid server

[limpid summit]

The alts are fighting again…what happened to my great server

[vestal swan]

Wait what is this related to

[ancient sinew]

I don’t think it is appropriate to criticize his server here thanks

[timber pond]

It dosent work very well.....

[limpid summit]

11 kb message

[foggy fractal]

if anything the second game implies that the masters don't like the void

steel seer zi says: The wish? No... pale It... Zi sensed clear your meeting... The rite... The vassal is tarnished. They have touched the dark. By the Masters, they will now be hunted... no matter the distance fled.

[whole holly]

wait why is it mid?

[craggy smelt]

re. Steel Masters, they come down hard on someone for using the Void in a way they don't approve of, so they seem to act as arbiters over it
probably why they send out Steel Assassins
to punish people for their Void crimes

[ancient sinew]

Get off your high horse

[sinful nimbus]

ooooh mosscord is mid ooooh 👻

[vestal swan]

Oh yeah they definitely don't like it being used, but that could still technically be because that they are void. Imagine if it's somebody else with another void heart, I don't think they would take too kindly to the void being manipulated

[sinful nimbus]

what's next? r/silksong is mid too?

[craggy smelt]

they don't like people abusing the Void
"that's what we're made of!"

[limpid summit]

Horses don’t stop they keep goin

[ancient sinew]

What a bizarre individual

Do you think I care about that server

[foggy fractal]

😔 they're hoarding the void for thesmelves

[ancient sinew]

I care about not breaking the rules

[craggy smelt]

no, I added a funny bit of dialogue!

[timber pond]

Hollow Knight Steel Soul Mode

In the first game, Steel Soul mode introduced us to Steel Soul Jinn, who took the place of Confessor Jiji.

Jinn had an interesting metallic tone of voice, a distinct cadence to her speech, and several comments that brought to mind the idea that she was some kind of robot or construct.

"Observed... Small. Dull. No Soul. Long shadow... It is blank, but brave..."
"Jinn, little know... cannot tell of self. Too young, its thought, its mind. Born to provide, to trade."
"...Its body, so soft... Fragile... Inferior built. Not like Jinn."

[vestal swan]

Why are y'all bitching again do you want to get muted

[limpid summit]

I believe the steel masters have some connection to void but it’s completely valid to not read the Jinn dialogue that way

[ancient sinew]

What happened to being “respectful”

[timber pond]

Jinn also had some connection with Jiji, as Jinn was willing to purchase Rancid Eggs found throughout Hallownest.

"Jinn, has only many small, shiny things... useless to Jinn, but will trade for wonderful gift. "
"...Gift is... horrible gift. Disgusting..."
"But Jinn knows one who appreciates...Friend of Jinn. Eats nasties. Loves nasties. Shall accept. Shall provide."
"It likes Jinn's shinies? Jinn has many... many. Gifts, from another, helped by Jinn. Hurt by Jinn."

Jinn also has a number of interesting remarks to several items the Knight can acquire.

King's Brand:
"...A King, the tiny It becomes. Jinn knows that mark, but cannot bow.
Jinn's masters are other... minds other... Not order. Not order, they seek."

Jinn recognizes the authority of the Pale King from their brand, but cannot acknowledge it, as she serves other masters. Masters with 'minds other' who do not seek order.

Void Heart:
"This It... A rare It. Has not seen many, so vulnerable, but triumphant. Makes Jinn feel a thing... surprise?
Jinn misjudged... The It is not inferior. Perhaps... different? Different to Jinn. More complete? Different... like masters? "
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[10:11 AM]Sunday, October 5, 2025 10:11 AM
The Void Heart, one of the game's most significant items which marks the Knight as the Lord of Shades and unifies the Void under their will, causes Jinn to regard the Knight as 'more complete' and 'like masters'.

Confessor Jiji, strongly implied to be Jinn's 'friend', also reacts to the Void Heart by mentioning masters.

"Ooohhhh. My masters would be impressed...
Rare it is for one to come to terms with their regrets so completely, yet you seem to have managed it.
What darkness must one wade through to achieve such a thing? "

Jinn and Jiji both make references to masters they serve, masters with 'minds other' who 'do not seek order' and who Jinn feels are similar to the Lord of Shades.

[foggy fractal]

what

[limpid summit]

And reading Zi’s dialogue in a way that shows the Masters are void honestly requires you to already think so lol

[ancient sinew]

They literally started dissing another server for no reason surely that’s rule breaking

[sinful nimbus]

Andy do you got the sprite sheet

[timber pond]

Silksong Steel Soul Mode

This was all already pretty interesting.
In Silksong's Steel Soul mode, we've got more.

Introduced in Silksong is another steel bug, Steel Seer Zi.

Zi is encountered by Hornet, who seems to know plenty about her kind and their masters.

"Zi: ...Bug... Higher... It has come seeking... Zi is found... She is awoken.
Hornet: Greetings, child of steel. I have known your type, in past. From your presence it is clear this land too has caught the long gaze of your Masters.
Zi: Masters... Yes... For them, Zi observes... obedient... always... And you... a creature in half... Pale It... Bug It... old... stubborn... alone... You too are observed."

"Zi must watch, record... and wait... Always she is true to her function... Ore-bound... To duty."

The Steel Seer's purpose, her 'ore-bound duty' is to observe the land and its denizens for her Masters. She also makes a request of Hornet to track down her vassal, Sula.

"Zi: ...Creature, higher... Its meeting. Zi’s awakening... It is not chance... It has been sent to Zi, yes? By Masters served?... To retrieve her vassal lost?
Hornet: Not for your Masters, but by my own will I may aid you, Zi, as long as the path permits.
[...]
Zi: Find the vassal... pale It. Return them to us... Save us both from the Masters’ wrath."

[lapis creek]

unlike disgraced chef lugoli who was expelled for culinary crimes

[ancient sinew]

I just told them to stop because it was inappropriate why are you threatening me with a mute

[foggy fractal]

for who ?

[limpid summit]

Alright

So

[sinful nimbus]

Dude I'm literally just joshing

[timber pond]

Hornet finds Sula, a bug that very much resembles Confessor Jiji, suggesting that Jiji was the vassal of Jinn. Sula conducts a ritual that summons a Void creature that Hornet slays.

"Sula: No. No. No... My champion slain! Why do you do this, cruel slasher? Why must I stay, and serve, so long, long, long?

Hornet: That void must not be called, bug. Not ever. None can control it, though many have tried. Any strength you hoped it offered would fast be proven false. Consider yourself fortunate I arrived in time. Your shell is saved, all by wish of your steel companion, and fear of her Masters’ punishment.

Sula: But the seer knows nothing! Nothing of the pain. All small Sula’s to bear... To watch, watch these lands dying, slow, the bugs suffering, falling, while our shell sustains... The steelhearts feel so little... but we forced to serve, we endure it all. We alone. Why?"

[craggy smelt]

you asked for Paradox to do this, this is your fault

[sinful nimbus]

Me

[limpid summit]

I sort of expected a summary not like a doc’s worth

[ancient sinew]

Irrelevant it wasn’t appropriate but I don’t want to get muted so I’ll let @vestal swan deal with this

[limpid summit]

But most of it is just dialogue I’ll read it

[timber pond]

The 'steelhearts' purpose is seemingly to observe lands and kingdoms as they decline, aided by their vassals. The steel bugs may feel little or nothing, but it's clearly affected Sula, who attempted to use the Void to give themselves the means to resist or escape their servitude. Hornet ultimately chooses not to return Sula to Zi, and Sula flees Pharloom.

"Hornet: Zi, your vassal is gone, alive, fled beyond these lands. I chose to allow their escape, even if your wish may not be granted.
Zi: The wish? No... pale It... Zi sensed clear your meeting... The rite... The vassal is tarnished. They have touched the dark. By the Masters they will now be hunted... no matter the distance fled."

Zi says that Sula has been 'tarnished', having 'touched the dark'. Calling upon the Void in their ritual was seemingly a forbidden act, and now Sula will be hunted down by their Masters no matter where they run. Though Hornet thinks they have a chance to survive, and this thought seems to be shared by Zi.

"Hope!.. Pale It... For a vassal who defies the Masters?... You give Zi a thought, complex... The outcome is different... and Zi must now observe alone... but this may be the better way? Zi shall accept the happening... shall pray the Masters still see her loyal... and Zi too will share the hope... that her vassal lives long unbound."

Though loyal to her masters, Zi still cares about her vassal. Jinn also referred to Jiji as a friend, even likely having a similar relationship. The steel bugs care about their vassals, even as they serve Masters who can apparently be quite stern.
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[10:12 AM]Sunday, October 5, 2025 10:12 AM
Zi also has a very interesting line if you refuse her request to track down Sula.

[foggy fractal]

so zi ? or uni.

[vestal swan]

When another person try to drag everybody to that server no not really

[limpid summit]

Click to react click to react click to react

[timber pond]

"Pale It... You would reject the role? Are you not tamed, bound, by Masters?... You would know... obedience is essential.
Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher...
...Compression... We have suffered it. We would never wish it upon another."

So that's pretty ominous.

The 'higher' in this case refers to the 'higher caste', the god-like pale beings that are seemingly the supreme entities of the Hollow Knight world. Hornet includes herself amongst this caste, owing to her being descended from Pale King and, through her mother Herrah, the pale being Grand Mother Silk.

Yet even these higher beings of great power can apparently be called to task by the Steel Masters. 'Compression,' whatever that means, is the fate of those who defy the Steel Masters, and pale beings are even suggested to be especially vulnerable to this.

[sinful nimbus]

Click to react 🗣️
Click to react 🔥
Click to react 🥶

[ancient sinew]

can you stop with the walls it’s really hard to read this shit

[limpid summit]

Is this just an analysis of every single line of dialogue between the two of them

What’s the point

[ancient sinew]

this is not going to lead to productive discussion

[timber pond]

What we know about the Steel Clan so far

So we have 'steelheart' servants, built to serve the Masters in various ways. Jinn, to trade. Zi, to observe.
These steelhearts also have vassals, that they develop various amounts of affection for.
These vassals apparently know a number of rituals, including ones that can summon the Void. This was suggested with Jiji, whose rituals call forth the Knight's Shade - while canonically the Knight cannot interact with their own dead self, there was still a suggestion that Jiji's rituals involved the Void.
Sula shows that indeed the vassals can call forth the Void with their spells.
This is apparently a forbidden act, and will results in Sula's sanction by the Masters.

The Masters maintain a presence in kingdoms founded by pale beings via steelhearts and their vassals, to observe and/or trade with the land and its inhabitants.
The Masters 'do not seek order' and their servants reject the authority of the Pale King.
The Masters are reminiscient of the Lord of Shades, a being with authority over the Void.
The Masters are capable of humbling even pale beings, surpremely powerful entities.
The Masters don't want anyone messing with the Void, at least in ways they don't approve of.

More
[10:12 AM]Sunday, October 5, 2025 10:12 AM
There is hopefully more Steel Clan lore to come.

A lore tablet in the Cradle makes reference to the City of Steel, where the Citadel tracked a Weaver (implied to be the Widow, incidentally).
This place is a strong candidate for the headquarters of the Steel Clan.

Zi also awards Hornet a "Rock of the home spear... and of Zi’s birth."
'Home spear' puts me in mind of a shining steel spear-tip... which might be what the 'City of Steel' resembles.

Silksong's earlier promotional material introduced a character called Steel Assassin Sharpe, another steel bug, who had a pair of steel companions. Sharpe and the Steel Assassins are absent in the current game.

[vestal swan]

Why are you copy pasting the whole conversation, I said the dialogue

Nobody is going to read this

[craggy smelt]

that is the point

[ancient sinew]

At what point does it become spam

[limpid summit]

When you miss something so you gotta scroll back up to wall #2

[lapis creek]

powdered is showing a remarkable amount of restraint right now im honestly so proud

[craggy smelt]

suffer you fools

[timber pond]

But if the Masters have agents that carry out their wrath against bugs who violate their will, like Sula, then the Steel Assassins seem like prime candidates to be these agents. And if the Masters are against unsanctioned outbreaks of the Void, then what befalls Pharloom in Act 3 as a result of Hornet's actions might well put her in the sights of the Masters and their Steel Assassins.

[limpid summit]

Yes

You’re right

Now what

[timber pond]

Light, Dark, and Grey

Pale beings and the Void are suggested to be in conflict, with Void the 'power opposed' to poweful beings of light like the Pale King and the Radiance. A natural enough dichotomy - it's 'light vs dark', one of the oldest narrative dichotomies in all of fiction.

The Steel Masters may represent a balancing force between the two.
They do not acknowledge the authority of pale beings and even possess the means to threaten them with some dire punishment.
They are also reminiscent of the Lord of Shades that holds authority over the Void, and they heavily restrict use of the Void.
They are capable of keeping both forces in check.

Between Light and Dark, is there perhaps Steel Grey...?

[vestal swan]

I'm simply making all of you suffer with me

[timber pond]

Alright there

Thats the discussion

[limpid summit]

Good discussion guys

[timber pond]

why dont i copy and paste it you ask

[ancient sinew]

Well I’m not reading that

[timber pond]

well.

there you go

[vestal swan]

Okay so, the dialogue about being complete was from the second game not the first? How did I mix that up I didn't even do steel soul yet

[lapis creek]

i respect it paradox

[limpid summit]

Genuinely I don’t blame you but this could have been it

[lapis creek]

no its the first game

[ancient sinew]

I mean no shit nobody is going to read your ten walls of text do you seriously think this is how discussions take place

[vestal swan]

I read the part that was from the first game and I didn't see it?

[timber pond]

Its from the first in refrence to the knight. But the scond game enlightens us

[lapis creek]

why would the second game talk about the knight being complete

[foggy fractal]

the dialogue of tk being complete like masters ? that's from the first game from jinn

[vestal swan]

[silver spire]

just drop it oml

[lapis creek]

wait do they say it again in the second game

[timber pond]

Someone wanted me to Post it but the link to the forum was deleted for that person

[vestal swan]

Yes they talk about complete in the second game that's why I got confused

[whole holly]

can steel master theoretically threaten dream being similar to radiance?

[limpid summit]

No idea

[craggy smelt]

steel masters can threaten the 'higher caste' with 'Compression', something they are especially vulnerable to
I think the steel masters act as some kind of balancing force, keeping both Void and Pale in check
which might still mean they're Void

[limpid summit]

I like to think YES because I love sharpe

[timber pond]

They threaten Pale bings

[whole holly]

not the question

[timber pond]

so yes

[ancient sinew]

Not what that says

[vestal swan]

We have no idea what they're capable of besides metal bending/master forger and possibly embuing things with life similar to GMS

[ancient sinew]

Let’s not make assumptions

[lapis creek]

im not a huge fan of the idea of them being a balancing force since it's claimed that they don't seek order but other than that it could work

[timber pond]

Pale beings are like a step above higher beings

[limpid summit]

I can’t wait for retsong to reach a peak with Jiji and Jinn dialogue

[ancient sinew]

Me when I make shit up

[timber pond]

and can manipulate void in the same way so i assume yes

[lapis creek]

not quite

[ancient sinew]

What?

[edgy barn]

Crazy how every evidence for the masters being void only works if you already think they are.

[vestal swan]

They are not said to manipulate void?

[craggy smelt]

not seeking order might just be a reference to them rejecting the authority of pale beings, like the pale king
hence Jinn not honoring the king's brand

[ancient sinew]

They can probably “call upon it”

[vestal swan]

Giant steel trash compactor

[ancient sinew]

But nobody can control Void that’s like, a thing

[timber pond]

Heavily implied that they are equivalent Shades of some kind.

So in the same way the knight can

[ancient sinew]

What?

What are you talking about

[sinful nimbus]

I'd like to share my own theory on the Steel Masters actually,
I believe the Steel Assassins might've wiped out the Ancient Civilization, as we know they are greatly opposed to Void usage & there is an absence of any other explanation for the Ancient Civilization's fall

This also sets up Sharpe and his Assassins as a deadly force to be reckoned with, and the true endgame in terms of antagonists

[lapis creek]

this is what i would say if i had to rationalize it somehow but i think that particular sentence is ok to take at face value

[ancient sinew]

Theories require evidence, where’s yours?

[vestal swan]

Ooh I never thought of that

[craggy smelt]

Steel Assassins killed Pale King

[vestal swan]

Mine you can't have it

[sinful nimbus]

We know they are greatly opposed to Void usage & there is an absence of any other explanation for the Ancient Civilization's fall

[whole holly]

i made that theory as a joke lol

[limpid summit]

I don’t like this theory because it’s a sharpe downscale since they missed one
Bum ahhsassins

[timber pond]

Jinn states that The knight with the void heart as one who "unified the void" and The masters are extremely simialr.

[craggy smelt]

Ancient Civilization all died because they went swimming in the Void, Abyss Tablets in pharloom confirm it

[ancient sinew]

…

That… that isn’t what Jinn says

[edgy barn]

My friend I think you should clarify what you are refferring to exactly

[lapis creek]

i feel like theres a pretty good chance of them going this route

[stuck loom]

Huh

[ancient sinew]

Reading comprehension moment

[sinful nimbus]

Well he's biologically dead he just preserved his mind with a magic seal

[ancient sinew]

Very weak evidence

[limpid summit]

I hope Ancient Civilization aren’t just rain world ancients it removes their agency and makes their void control seem less cool if they were just gonna go dipping into it

[ancient sinew]

If it can even be called that

[limpid summit]

I like your theory Star

[edgy stone]

I do kinda want the steel masters to be very unique compared to anything else weve seen

[limpid summit]

But it doesn’t look like Star likes it

[edgy stone]

Like I dont want them to be higher beings or void or anything

[timber pond]

If He references void heart in the context of "minds are not order" and how similar you are to the masters, that sounds like they are extremely similar

[craggy smelt]

I feel like the AC should predate everything though, depending on what we learn of the steel clan AC might have disappeared before the steel clan rose

[limpid summit]

They gonna be both 💔

[edgy stone]

I like the idea of them being just highly highly advanced robots

[foggy fractal]

I'm gonna make a steel master fake screenshot
should the steel master be void

[ancient sinew]

We don’t know why the Masters were opposed to Void usage and AC could have fallen for any number of reasons that isn’t an excuse to make shit up

[lone folio]

What's wrong with rain world ancients?

[limpid summit]

Nothing HK is just a different type of game

[edgy stone]

Steel masters are looks to the moon and 9 pebbles

[vestal swan]

I was about to say I said it first but I looked it up and somebody said it like 6 years ago before either of us

[ancient sinew]

If you think this is a theory you should take critical thinking classes because it’s not

[craggy smelt]

but it wasn't for Void crimes, PK stole sawblades from the City of Steel
PK didn't have any original ideas

[sinful nimbus]

Well, its just an idea with slight precedent. I'm not going to be arguing its definitive

[craggy smelt]

just like TC ooOOOHHHH

[whole holly]

lol

[ancient sinew]

So it’s your baseless headcanon. Cool!

[limpid summit]

You’re right it’s not exactly a theory but I still like it
If you want an example of an actual theory I have a few for you

[edgy stone]

Do you think the steel masters are steel supremacists

[timber pond]

They are opposed to void usage yet they have Subjects that have intimate knowledge, use void, and may or may not have constructs that relate to void? yeah, something dosent add up.

[vestal swan]

I don't think using void is something they are allowed to do considering one is about to be hunted down and killed for doing it

[edgy stone]

What happens if you walk in with copper into the steel city

[vestal swan]

I think it's just something they have intimate knowledge of because of their job

It's like a forensic scientist would know what a meth lab looks like but they don't make meth

[craggy smelt]

you're arrested for metal crimes

[ancient sinew]

No offense but I don’t think any of your “theories” is going to be very interesting to me, you can keep them to yourself

[fossil tendon]

Ok back

[limpid summit]

So

[timber pond]

Why isnt Jiji persecuted then and Jinn is just chill with him? he sumons shades and stuff.

[limpid summit]

Pale King’s foresight

[ancient sinew]

If you need an excuse to change the topic you don’t need to use me as one

[fossil tendon]

Reupload but was there anything I missed? Put Masters in "Weird Other Thing"?

[craggy smelt]

I love all of AppleEgg's theories, share them all please

[limpid summit]

We all love it don’t we

No I’m sorry yak these must be for another time

[vestal swan]

Because I don't think jiji canonically does that

[lapis creek]

where do i sign up for critical thinking classes

[limpid summit]

Also I only have like a few

[craggy smelt]

copy/paste them in vast walls, like Paradox

[foggy fractal]

uh oh

[gentle aspen]

hi guys

[fossil tendon]

Besides Vessel did the WL have any children

[limpid summit]

No

[foggy fractal]

hey guys

[craggy smelt]

hey look, it's Andy

[foggy fractal]

hi

[gentle aspen]

not that we know of

[edgy barn]

Jinn buys the eggs for Jiji

[limpid summit]

Did quirrel just turn into sand

[fossil tendon]

Did PK?

[gentle aspen]

probably

[gentle aspen]

No

[ancient sinew]

Looks like you need “how to use Google” classes too

[timber pond]

BEcause Jinn speaks about them as if they are just chilling somehwere else and he can easily give the rancid eggs to him

[gentle aspen]

hornet’s a vessel duh

[fossil tendon]

Hornet is on the chart

[foggy fractal]

⏳ <- Qurriel trapped

[edgy stone]

What happens if someone ate the pale king

[edgy barn]

...what

[lapis creek]

what's google

[edgy stone]

Do they just shine

[teal drift]

Also presumably summoning a shade vessel is different than summoning raw void

[ancient sinew]

A mod, saying shit like this. And they get mad when we go slightly off topic.

[fossil tendon]

"HB"?

[foggy fractal]

higher being

[craggy smelt]

I wonder if Zylotol will grow into a new Lifeblood Beast. He says that he will become a 'Source'

[fossil tendon]

Oh, right. Maybe. I'll read his Wiki

[vestal swan]

I agree but have you done anything but complain for the last 30 minutes

[timber pond]

Do they state who hes giving them to?

[limpid summit]

Jinn being captured by the Masters for having the capabilities to manipulate void even if she doesn’t do it canonically at that point wouldn’t be a bad explanation

[edgy stone]

Hes not wrong though?????

[ancient sinew]

Hilarious

[craggy smelt]

Wormways will be overtaken like the Lifeblood Chamber in the Abyss and become all dreamy

[edgy stone]

Its literally stated in game dude

[fossil tendon]

Did anyone create Herrah or no

[gentle aspen]

Gms did

[fossil tendon]

Create like a Robot or like Birth

[vestal swan]

Raised up from a lower bug through magic mutation

[timber pond]

Shes a weaver so she came from GMS

[fossil tendon]

So like a Scientist with a Test subject?

[ancient sinew]

I’ve been engaging with the discussion, I call out potentially rule breaking behaviour when I see it in the hopes that more responsible mods like yourself can prevent it from reoccuring, but if you’d rather I said nothing that’s also fine

[vestal swan]

I've literally been in chat the entire time

[edgy stone]

Mod this guy now!

[craggy smelt]

is that all he meant, or is he still one without the organ? his corpse still sings of a 'source'
he could probably grow more glands

[sinful nimbus]

No that's a bad faith reading, many things in this game's lore don't have concrete evidence, such as the idea that Skynx is a Nosk or that the Pale King killed himself

[edgy stone]

Make him admin, grant him ownership of the server

[vestal swan]

Skynx being a nosk is a really bad idea tbh

[edgy stone]

Skynx is just an evil alternate dimension of stynx

[gentle aspen]

?

[ancient sinew]

Are those really the best examples you could come up witu lmao

[timber pond]

in retrospect, Joni probably became a "source" in a similar way to what happens to Zylotol in this game

[ancient sinew]

Skynx being a Nosk is the stupidest thing I’ve read all evening and PK didn’t kill himself

[sinful nimbus]

Engage with the discussion or block me

[vestal swan]

I saw someone say during that conversation the other day that he just molted and he's having a creepy identity crisis, instead of that being his body on the ground

[ancient sinew]

Where do I begin with this, do you want me to address your original argument?

[craggy smelt]

hee, stynx

[gentle aspen]

it doesn’t make much sense to assert “even pale beings yada yada yada” when Hornet’s the only one we’ve seen affected by it and she’s not at the same level as the rest

[sinful nimbus]

Skynx only speaks through regurgitating Styx's and Hornet's sentences

[atomic dirge]

i somehow didn't process Skynx's name indicating he "skinned" Styx until someone brought it up here

[naive turtle]

She used silk to elevate them them from mindless weak pharlids to powerful intelligent weavers however she lied about their creation and called them her daughters and called them divine this caused the weavers to betray her at the end

[sinful nimbus]

The only unique sentence Skynx has is "Someone save me" which implies it killed Styx

[ancient sinew]

Because irrespective of what else isn’t “conclusive” the fact remains that there is literally nothing to suggest the Steel Masters were responsible for wiping out AC

[vestal swan]

Oh that's creepy

[foggy fractal]

nooooo

[atomic dirge]

that's fucked up

[sinful nimbus]

I gave my evidence

[foggy fractal]

why would skynx do this :C

[ancient sinew]

One of your pieces of evidence was literally “uh AC are dead”

[craggy smelt]

missed opportunity for Skynx to be called Styones

[ancient sinew]

You cannot be serious

[sinful nimbus]

Reading comprehension devil claims another victim

[timber pond]

Yeah this is implied by hornet saying that Lifeblood and the Radiances infection (presumably what she meant) when conversing with Zylotl in act 3 are, eerily, like the same.

[fossil tendon]

Off topic but Lifeblood tastes like a Tide Pod (new hc)